Krishnamurti Subtitles home


BO84Q - 问答会
1984年2月9日 印度孟买



1:32 There are several questions, a whole packet of them. How do you approach a question? Is the question more important than the answer, or does the answer lie in the question itself? So we are asking before we go into these questions, how you receive a question, how you look at a question, how you respond to a question. Or, are you merely seeking an answer to the question – if you are seeking an answer, the answer is more important than the question. So, we are saying it is very important how you approach a question. And in the manner – how you investigate the question, for the answer lies in the question itself, not away from it. I hope this is clear, that we are both seeking to find a solution to a question, but we are saying that it is far more important to understand the nature and the content of the question. So we are both of us, you and the speaker are going to investigate the question itself, and then in understanding the question the answer is in the investigation of that question. I hope this is clear. There are several questions here and you and the speaker together are going to explore the nature of the question, and then perhaps we will be able to find the answer in the question itself. Is this fairly clear? So we are going to read these questions first. 我收到了好几个问题， 有整整一小包问题。 你们是如何去处理一个问题的？ 问题是否要比答案更重要？ 还是说答案就存在于问题本身之中？ 所以在我们进入这些问题之前，我们要问一下： 你是如何去接收一个问题的？你是如何去看待一个问题的？ 你是如何对问题作出反应的？ 还是说，你仅仅是在寻找问题的答案 ——如果你在寻找答案， 那么答案就会变得比问题更重要。 所以我们说，这一点是非常重要的， 即：你是如何去处理一个问题的。 以及你是以何种方式 去探究那个问题的？ 因为答案就藏在问题本身之中， 而不是脱离于问题的。 我希望我们清楚了这一点： 即我们双方都在寻求问题的解决， 然而我们说：远远更为重要的是，要去了解 问题的本质与内容。 所以我们双方，你和讲话者 将要去探究问题本身， 然后，就在了解问题的过程中， 答案就存在于对那个问题的探究之中。 我希望你们已经清楚了这一点。 我这里有好几个问题，而你和讲话者将要一起来 探索这些问题的本质， 然后我们也许 就能够在问题本身之中找到答案了。 这一点是不是完全清楚了？ 那么，我们就先来读一下这些问题吧。
4:54 1st Question: What is beauty? Why do we like things that are beautiful? （第一个问题）什么是美？ 为什么我们会喜欢那些美的东西？
5:04 What is beauty, and why is it that we like things that are beautiful? 什么是美？为什么我们喜欢美的东西？
5:16 That is the question. So, we are together going to investigate, explore, find out the question itself, the content of the question. Is this clear? The questioner asks, what is beauty. Now when you look around this hall, is it beautiful? When you look at the sky of an evening, with one star in the heavens, is that beautiful? Or when you see a marvellous sunset, full of colour, great depth, great sense of expansion, and the whole universe is filled with light and colour, is that beautiful? Or only the things that man has made are beautiful. Man has made the cathedrals, the temples, the churches and the various types of mosques all over the world. So, man-made things like a painting, a poem, a sculpture, a building, which are all man-made, and therefore are they beautiful? That is, is man the measure of beauty, or man is the measure of all things? Do we understand each other? 这是第一个问题。 所以，我们将要来一起探究、探索 和发现那个问题本身，以及问题的内容。 这一点清楚了吗？ 提问者问道：什么是美？ 此刻，当你环顾这个礼堂，你觉得它美吗？ 当你注视夜晚的天空， 注视夜空中的那颗孤星时，这是美吗？ 或者说，当你看到一次美好的日落， 充满了各种色彩，巨大的深度，那种惊人的扩展感， 天地万物都洒满了光亮与色彩， 这是美吗？ 还是说，只有那些人类创造出来的东西才是美丽的。 人类已经在全世界各地建造了大教堂、寺庙、小教堂， 以及各种各样的清真寺。 所以，人类创造出来的东西：比如绘画、 诗歌、雕塑、建筑， 这些全都是人类创造出来的，所以它们就是美吗？ 换句话说，难道人是衡量美的尺度吗？ 还是说，人是衡量一切事物的尺度？ 我们彼此理解对方了吗？
7:33 We are asking to find out what is beauty. It is a very complex question and requires a great sensitivity to find out for ourselves what is beauty. You see a marvellous sunset, the early morning rise of the sun over the trees. Or you see a great mountain against a clear blue sky, tender, quiet, silent, great beauty, great sense of tremendous dignity, a sense of wonder. When that takes place, that is, when you see a great marvellous thing, what happens when you look at it? When you look at a sunset over the sea, and a great light, brilliance born of sunset, what takes place in you? Please, we are investigating together. You are not just waiting for the speaker to answer your question. We are together exploring the question, whatever the question – political, economic, social and so on. The questioner here is asking, ‘What is beauty?’ We are saying that beauty exists only when the self, the ‘me’ is not. Man-made things like a painting, like a marvellous photograph of a tree or of a person, of a great river flowing down full of light and volume, when you look at all this, the wonder of the earth, the beauty of the earth, what takes place in you when you look at something extraordinarily beautiful? For the moment you cease to exist. You with all your problems, with your worries, with your daily travail and misery, confusion, all that is dissipated or driven away by something that you see with great tremendous beauty. You for the moment are absent. Would you agree to that? Are you listening to all this? If you are listening and you see or perceive when there is beauty – great beauty, not merely physical beauty of a woman or a man – when you perceive that, for the second your self is not there. I would consider that is great beauty. 我们在要求的是：去发现什么是美。 这是一个非常复杂的问题，我们需要有强烈的敏感性， 才能亲自去发现什么是美。 你看到了一次美好的日落， 看到了清晨太阳从树林中徐徐升起。 或者你看到了一座映衬在清澈蓝天下的雄伟高山， 它温柔、寂静、沉默不语， 有着巨大的美，巨大的庄严感， 令人惊叹。 而当这一切发生后， 也就是，当你看到了一个伟大美好的事物， 当你观看它的时候，会发生什么呢？ 当你欣赏海上的日落，你看到了落日那绝美的光芒， 它的光辉， 你的内心会发生什么呢？ 请注意，我们是在一起探究它。 而不是你等待讲话者来回答你的问题。 我们是在一起探索那个问题， 无论那个问题是什么——政治上的、经济上的、社会上的问题，等等。 而这里有一位提问者问，“什么是美？” 我们说：只有当那个自我，那个“我”不在的时候， 美才会存在。 那些人类所创造出来的东西：比如一幅画， 一张美好的照片：拍摄一棵树或一个人， 拍摄一条顺流而下的大河——它水量充沛，光彩四溢， 当你看到了所有这些，看到了地球上的种种奇观， 这个地球的美，当你看到某个无比美丽的事物时， 你的内在会发生什么？ 在那个时刻，“你”暂时不存在了。 你所有的问题，你的烦恼， 你日常生活的艰辛、痛苦和混乱， 所有这些都被驱散和消除了， 它们被某个你所看到的有着巨大的美的事物所驱除了。 在那个时刻，“你”不存在了。你同意这一点吗？ 你们在聆听这一切吗？ 如果你正在聆听，你就会看到或察觉到：当有了美的时候—— 那种伟大的美，而不仅仅是一个女人或男人的外在的美—— 你就会察觉到，在那一刻，你的自我消失了。 我认为这才是伟大的美。
11:53 And also – it is a very noisy place, isn’t it – and also the question asks, why do we like something that is beautiful? And also that question implies, why do we tolerate something that is ugly, dirty? Like the filthy streets of Bombay. Why do we tolerate it, why do we allow it? You might say, ‘It is not our responsibility, it is the responsibility of the government’, and the government is corrupt and so everything goes to pieces. But are we aware sensitively of the environment in which we live? The room in which we live, whether it is orderly, clean, well proportioned or not, are we aware of all this? Or we just put up with everything? And so most of us become – when you see constantly, day after day the squalor, the dirt, the inhumanity of man against man, you get used to it, your sensitivity becomes dull, corroded, and so you never see actually that which is beautiful. 此外 这个地方真吵，不是吗？ 此外，这个问题还问到： 为什么我们喜欢美的事物？ 这个问题同样也在暗指： 为什么我们要容忍那些丑陋和肮脏的事物？ 比如孟买那些肮脏污秽的街道。 为什么我们要容忍它？为什么我们要容许它？ 你可能会说，“这并不是我们的责任， 这是政府的职责”， 然而政府很腐败，所以每一件事情都变得一塌糊涂了。 然而，我们是否敏感地觉知到了我们所生活于其中的环境？ 我们所居住的房间，它是否是有序的、干净的？ 比例是否匀称？我们觉察到所有这些了吗？ 还是说，我们只是在忍受着这一切？ 因此，我们大多数人都已经变得 当你日复一日地时常看到脏乱、 污秽、不人道的行为， 你就会变得习惯于它了，你的敏感性被钝化、被破坏了， 所以你永远无法真正看到那个美的事物。
14:09 2nd Question: Is perception of the actual possible without the intervention of thought? （第二个问题）我们是否可能看到真实实际的事物 而没有思想的介入？
14:20 Is perception of the actual possible without the intervention of thought? 我们是否可能没有思想的介入而看到真实实际的事物？
14:32 You understand the question? Is it possible to perceive a tree, your wife or your husband, or your boss or your helper, your servant, or the nature around you, to perceive that without the intervention of thought? If the question is clear, that is, can you see a tree, or the new moon, or the setting of the sun, or your wife or your husband and your children, without thought interfering with your perception? That is the question. Let us explore the question. 你理解这个问题了吗？ 你是否可能去看一棵树，去看你的妻子或你的丈夫， 或者你的老板、你的助手、你的仆人， 或者你周围的大自然， 去看他们而没有思想的介入？ 如果你清楚了这个问题， 即：你能否观看一棵树、一轮新月、 一次日落， 或者观看你的妻子、你的丈夫和你的孩子， 而不让思想干涉你的观察？ 问题就是这样。 让我们来探索一下这个问题。
15:57 What do we mean perceiving – to perceive, to observe? When you perceive your wife or your husband or your girlfriend or your son, do you actually see them as they are, or you have a picture of them, an image of them, and through that image, through those coloured glasses of memories, conclusions, you look through. Please examine kindly what the speaker is saying. Examine your own wife or your husband or your neighbour or your boss and so on, whether you can look at them without a single movement of thought or image or the word. Suppose I am married – which I'm not – suppose I am married. I live with my wife for twenty or thirty years or fifteen days, and during that interval of time I have built through various incidents, accidents, an image about her. She has built an image about me. These images, these memories, prevent me from looking at her actually, what she is. And then the question arises: is it possible to look at a human being, whether it be my wife or a neighbour or a stranger, to look at them without a single movement of thought. That is what the questioner is asking. 我们所说的「看」——去看，去观察——是什么意思呢？ 当你看你的妻子、你的丈夫、 你的女朋友或你的儿子时， 你真的是在如实地看他们吗？ 还是说，你心里有着关于他们的画像，关于他们的意象， 而你是透过那个形象， 透过记忆和结论的有色眼镜 在观察他们。 请好好检视一下讲话者所说的东西。 检视一下你自己的妻子、丈夫、 你的邻居、你的老板等等， 你是否可以看着他们 而没有丝毫的思想活动，没有任何意象或文字。 假设我结婚了——尽管我并没有结婚——但假设我结婚了。 我和妻子一起生活了20天、30天，或者只有15天， 而在那段时期中， 我就会通过各种小事和意外事件而建立起 一个关于她的意象。 而她也会建立起一个关于我的意象。 而这些意象，这些记忆， 它们阻止了我去如实地看她，去看到她的真实模样。 然后问题就出现了： 是否可能看着一个人 不管那个人是我的妻子、邻居，还是一个陌生人， 看着他们而没有丝毫的思想活动。 这就是提问者在问的东西。
18:42 You are sitting there and the speaker is sitting up here. You apparently are here with an image, with a conclusion, with memories of the speaker, right, sirs? Are you responding to my question? Can you observe the speaker without all the reputation that you have built about him, all the things that have been said about him, and all that you perhaps may have read about him, or what he has said – to put away all that and look at him, observe him. Will you do that, can you do it? That is, to look at something, or a person or anything, without a previous memory, conclusion, remembrance. Just to look afresh – is that possible? That means thought not interfering with your observation. If you have ever tried, or if you ever will do it, you will find most extraordinary things happen. You begin to discover something which you have never thought of. You begin to discover something totally new. If you look at your wife or your husband without all the memory that you have accumulated about her and she about you, then you are looking at her or him for the first time afresh! So a relationship is constantly renewed, fresh. Not the old memories operating and interfering. Have you ever tried all this? Or you just listen – ‘Yes, it sounds very grand, but I can’t do it’, and carry on. So if you actually do it once or twice, to put away all the accumulated memories that you have about her or him, then you are looking at the person for the first time afresh. And when you look at that person afresh something totally new takes place, a new kind of relationship comes into being. 你们坐在那里，而讲话者坐在这里。 你来到了这里，很显然就会有关于讲话者的意象、结论 和记忆，对吧，先生们？ 你们正在回应我的问题吗？ 你能否观察讲话者 而没有所有那些你们所建立起来的、他享有的声誉， 没有所有那些人们对他的看法， 没有所有那些你也许读到过的关于他的描述，或者那些他说过的东西 ——把所有这些东西都抛开，然后去看他，去观察他。 你会这样去做吗？你能够这样去做吗？ 那就是：去看一个东西、一个人，或者任何事物， 却不带着以前的记忆、结论和回忆。 而是重新去看他们——这可能吗？ 这意味着思想没有在干涉你的观察。 如果你曾经尝试过它或者如果你愿意这样去做， 你就会发现最非凡的事情发生了。 你会开始发现某些你从未想过的事物。 你会开始发现某些全新的事物。 如果你观察一下你的妻子或丈夫， 而没有所有那些你积累起来的关于她的记忆， 或者她所积累起来的关于你的记忆， 那时你就是如初见般地在全新地看她或他！ 所以，你们的关系就会不断地更新，保持新鲜。 而没有陈旧记忆的活动与干扰。 你曾经尝试过这一切吗？还是说你只是随便听听 “是的，它听起来很了不起，但是我无法做到它”，然后继续你的老样子。 所以如果你真正地去这样做一到两次， 把所有那些你所积累起来的关于她或他的记忆 全都抛开， 那么你就是如初见般地在观察那个人了。 而当你能重新去看那个人时， 某种全新的事物就会发生了， 那时一种新的关系就会诞生了。
22:26 3rd Question: How can one live with a husband who does not care? （第三个问题）：我要如何才能和不关心在乎我的丈夫生活在一起呢？
22:37 How can one live with a husband who doesn't care? 我要如何才能和不关心在乎我的丈夫生活在一起呢？
22:43 I don’t know. Let’s look into the question. What is a husband, and what is a wife? In America and other parts of the world, a boy and a girl are living together without going through a marriage ceremony, or going through the registrar, register their marriage. That’s one thing: a boy and a girl live together without going through marriage or recording officially. Then there is the other side: you go through a ceremony between a man and a woman, and that ceremony – that going to church, or registrar – that officially makes you man and wife, husband and wife. What is the difference between these two? You understand my question? What is the difference between a man and a woman living together without going through the ceremony of marriage, and what is the difference between them and a man and woman who goes through expensive marriage, what is the difference between the two? One has a paper, legalised, saying you are husband and wife. Society says you are married, you have certain responsibilities to look after your wife, your children and all the rest of it. And also the other, who do not go to church and all the rest, go through marriage ceremony, either they are very irresponsible or they are very responsible. Both are responsible. If they take living together seriously, both are responsible. 我也不知道。 让我们来看看这个问题吧。 什么是丈夫？什么是妻子？ 在美国和世界上其他一些地方， 男孩和女孩会生活在一起， 但他们没有举行过婚礼， 也没有去结婚登记处登记过。 这是一种情况：男孩和女孩生活在一起， 却没有结婚或者去结婚登记处登记。 然后还有另一种情况： 你们——男人和女人——会进行某种仪式， 而那种仪式——去教堂结婚，或者去登记—— 从法律法规上让你们成为了男人和妻子，成为了夫妻。 那么这两者有什么区别呢？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 同居男女， 他们没有举行过婚礼， 他们和花费高昂成本结婚的男女 他们之间有什么不同呢？ 这两者之间有什么差别呢？ 一个是有一张纸的（结婚证），是合法的，人们会说你们是夫妻。 社会会说你已经结婚了， 你有责任要照顾好你的妻子、 你的孩子，等等这些。 而另一个，他们并不会去教堂结婚，等等这类事情， 不会去举行婚礼， 然后他们要么是对彼此非常不负责任，要么他们就是非常的负责。 双方都很负责。 如果他们都认真对待同居这件事的话， 他们双方都会很负责。
25:48 So we are asking, what is a husband, and what is a wife? You answer that question. Most of you I presume who are here are married, or you have a girlfriend – perhaps not in India so much but in Europe and America it is quite common. So what is a husband? A husband is supposed to work, go to the office or go to some kind of work from nine till five o’clock, spends most of the day in an office, either pleasant or unpleasant, a factory and so on, and then comes home. The wife, the woman, cooks the meal, looks after – if she has children – the children, and so on. This is our daily routine. Do you agree to that? Oh, for God’s sake. Yes? This is what is happening the world over. The woman stays at home, or she goes to the office also to earn more money, and the wife generally looks after the children if she has any, and stays at home. What is the relationship between these two people? The husband who works from nine to five, and also the woman goes off to work from nine to five, what is their relationship? Have you ever thought about it? Life is becoming more and more complex, more and more expensive, so both the woman and the man have to work. And if they have children, which perhaps unfortunately they have, what happens to the children? The woman comes home or the husband comes home, tired, and will they care for each other except sexually? Will they really care? You ask this question to the speaker and he is supposed to answer that question. You should put this question to yourself and not to the speaker. 所以我们在问：什么是丈夫？什么是妻子？ 请你来回答这个问题。 我猜在座的大多数人都已经结婚了， 或者你会有一个女朋友——也许在印度这种情况并不多见， 然而在欧洲和美国，这是非常普遍的现象。 所以，丈夫是什么呢？ 丈夫被认为应该去打工，去办公室上班， 或者从事某种工作，朝九晚五地工作， 将一天中大部分的时间都花在办公室里，也许开心，也许不开心， 或者他会在工厂打工，等等，工作了一天以后，他回家了。 然后妻子，那个女人，给他做饭菜， 照顾孩子们——如果她有孩子的话——等等这些事。 这就是我们平淡乏味的日常生活。 你们同意这一点吗？ 噢，看在上帝的份上。是这样的吧？ 这就是全世界都在发生的事情。 女人待在家里， 或者她也会去办公室上班，为家里挣更多的钱， 而如果妻子有了孩子的话，她通常都会负责照料孩子们， 待在家里照顾孩子。 那么，这两个人之间是什么关系呢？ 丈夫朝九晚五地工作， 而女人也会出去工作，一样是朝九晚五， 那么他们的关系是什么呢？ 你曾经思考过这个问题吗？ 生活正在变得越来越繁杂， 生活成本变得越来越高， 所以不管是男人还是女人都必须出去工作。 而如果他们有了孩子——也许他们已经不幸有了孩子， 那么孩子们会怎么样？ 女人回到了家里，或者丈夫回到了家里，疲惫不堪， 他们还会关心在乎对方吗？除了在性生活上？ 他们真的会去关心在乎吗？ 你向讲话者提出了这个问题， 你期望他来回答这个问题。 然而你应该问问你自己这个问题，而不是问讲话者。
28:58 The question is: how does one live with a husband who doesn’t care? Either you say goodbye old man, or old boy, or you put up with it. This is generally what happens, you put up with it, getting more and more indifferent to each other, more and more isolated, more and more depressed, and all the misery of living with a man or a woman who doesn’t really care at all. It is your problem, not mine. So what will you do, go after another woman, go after another man? And it will also happen there, after a little while he will not care. And so you are always caught in this problem. Which means, is there love at all? When two people live together, is it a sexual, biological activity of coming together or is there love in their life, caring for each other? Perhaps you know this answer better than the speaker. 这个问题就是： 一个人要如何与不关心在乎她的丈夫生活在一起？ 要么你会对那个老男人或老家伙说再见，要么你会忍受这件事。 这就是通常发生的情况，你们都会忍受它， 然后你们彼此之间变得越来越冷淡， 越来越孤立，越来越沮丧， 以及所有那些因为你和根本不在乎你的男人或女人生活在一起 而产生的痛苦。 这是你们的问题，而不是我的问题。 所以，你会怎么做呢？ 去追求另一个女人吗？去追求另一个男人吗？ 然后同样的事情又会发生， 没过多久，那个人也会不在乎你。 所以你总是受困于这个问题中。 它的意思就是：究竟有没有爱？ 当两个人生活在一起， 它是一种性方面的、生物学上的共同生活的行为， 还是说，他们的生活中有爱，他们彼此关心在乎对方？ 也许你们要比讲话者更清楚问题的答案。
31:20 4th Question: Is it necessary to marry in life? What is the physical relationship between man and woman? （第四个问题）人这一生有必要结婚吗？ 男人和女人之间那种肉体上的关系是什么呢？
31:30 I don’t know. You ought to know. What a strange question this is, isn’t it? Is it necessary to marry in life? What do you say? If the speaker puts this question to you, what will you answer? Is it necessary, sirs and ladies, that I should marry? What would be your answer? Your answer probably would be, ‘Do what you want to do. Why bother me with it? It’s up to you.' 我不知道。 你们应该知道它。 这是一个多么奇怪的问题啊，不是吗？ 人这一生有必要结婚吗？ 你怎么看？ 如果讲话者向你提出这个问题，你会怎么回答它？ 女士们先生们，我应该结婚吗？有这个必要吗？ 你会怎么作答呢？ 你很可能会说， “你想怎么样就怎么样吧。干嘛要我来操心它？ 这取决于你自己。”
32:31 But you see the question is really much more complex than that. We all want companionship, we all want sexual relationship, a biological necessity. And also we want somebody on whom we can rely, in whom we can find security, in whom there is a sense of comfort, support, because most of us cannot stand alone on our own feet, therefore we say, ‘I must marry’, or I will have a girlfriend, or whatever it is, ‘I must have somebody with whom I can be at home’. We are never at home with anybody because we are living in our own thoughts, in our own problems, our own ambitions and so on. And we are frightened to stand alone, because life is very lonely, life is very complex, troublesome, and one needs somebody with whom you can talk things over. And also when you marry you have sexual relationships, children and so on. So, in this relationship between man and woman, if there is no love, you use her and she uses you. You exploit her and she exploits you. That’s a fact. 但你瞧，这个问题远远要比这更为复杂。 我们都想要有人陪伴，我们都想要有性关系， 这是一种生理需求。 同样的，我们也想要有一个我们能够依靠的人， 我们可以在他身上找到安全感， 他能让我们感到安慰，鼓励支持我们， 因为我们大多数人都无法独立自主， 所以我们说，“我必须要结婚”， 或者我要找一个女朋友等等， “我必须要找个人，这样在家时，我就能和他（她）在一起了”。 然而在家的时候，我们从未与任何人“在一起”过， 因为我们一直活在自己的思想里和自己的各种问题中， 活在自己的野心里，等等。 我们害怕孤立， 因为生活是非常孤独的， 生活是非常复杂的、麻烦不断的， 而我们需要有个可以和他商量讨论事情的人。 此外，当你结婚后，你们便会有性关系， 有孩子，等等。 所以，在那种男人和女人的关系中， 如果双方没有爱的话，那么你就是在利用她，而她也在利用你。 你在剥削她，而她也在剥削你。 事实就是如此。
34:44 So, the questioner asks, should one marry. And what is the physical relationship between man – don’t you know the question? It’s up to you, sirs. But to really enter into this whole complex problem of living together, not only with two people, living together with humanity – with your neighbour, with your boss, with your servant if you have a servant, with your father, mother, children – to live together, it’s a very complex thing. Living together as a family gives you certain security, certain safety and so you extend that family to a group, to a community, to a state, to a nation, and from a nation which is opposed to another nation, and so there is always division and conflict, and wars. So one has to find out how to live with another without any conflict, without any sense of struggle, adaptation, adjustment. That requires a great deal of intelligence, integrity. But we just marry off because of sexual, biological demands and so on. 所以，这位提问者问：我们应该结婚吗？ 男女之间的那种肉体关系是什么？ 你们难道不知道这个问题吗？ 这取决于你，先生们。 但我们要真正地深入这整个 关于「一起生活」的复杂问题，它不只是两个人一起生活， 也包括和其他人一起相处——和你的邻居， 和你的老板，和你的仆人——如果你有仆人的话， 和你的父亲、母亲和孩子， 和他们生活在一起，这是一件非常复杂的事情。 作为一家人生活在一起给了你某种安全和保障， 于是你们便将「家庭」这个单位扩展至「团体」， 然后是某个社区，某个州，某个国家， 然后，由于一个国家会反对另一个国家， 所以总是有着分裂、冲突和战争。 因此我们必须去发现如何与另一个人一起生活，而没有任何冲突， 也没有那种去斗争、调整和适应的感觉。 这需要大量的智慧与诚实。 然而我们结婚却只是出于性方面的、生理方面的需求，等等。
37:06 Did you make up these questions? They say no. 这些问题是你们编造出来的吗？他们说不是。
37:17 5th Question: What is the difference between the brain and the mind? （第五个问题）：大脑（brain）和心灵（mind）有什么区别？
37:26 What is the difference between the brain and the mind? 大脑和心灵之间有什么区别？
37:36 This is a very complex question. We know what the brain is. The scientists are saying now there is the left side of the brain and the right side of the brain. The left side of the brain is used daily. I won’t go into all the details of it, you can read it if you want to. I haven’t read it, but some friends who are scientists have told me about it. The left side of the brain is in operation, activity, functioning with all the daily activity. And the right side of the brain is not operating fully, not functioning fully because the right side of the brain is much more intelligent, much more acute, much more aware. And also the brain is the centre of all action and reaction, of all the sensory responses – this is what the speaker is saying. 这是一个非常复杂的问题。 我们都知道大脑是什么。 科学家们现在的说法是： 大脑有着左半球和右半球。 大脑的左半球用于日常的生活。 我就不深入所有这些细节了，如果你有兴趣，可以自己去读一下它。 我并没有读过这方面的东西。 但我的一些科学家朋友告诉了我这些。 大脑的左半球在运作着、活动着， 负责所有日常生活中的行为活动。 而大脑的右半球， 它并没有完全地运作，没有充分地发挥作用， 因为大脑的右半球远远更为智慧， 更为敏锐，觉察力更强。 此外大脑也是所有行动和回应， 所有感官反应的中心 ——这是讲话者的看法。
39:05 So, the brain contains, or has the whole content of consciousness. Consciousness is your belief, your faith, your name, your faculty, capacity, all the memories, all the hurts, pleasure, pain, agony, struggle, all that, affection and so on, all that is the content of your consciousness. The content of your consciousness is you, is the self, is the ‘me’. That content of consciousness may invent a super-super-consciousness, or invent various kinds of unimagined or imagined states, but it is still within the content of your consciousness. Do we see this? You – you are your name, your body, your anger, your greed, your competition, your ambition, your pleasure, your pain and so on, affection, all that – you are that. And that means the content of your consciousness. The content of your consciousness is the past – past memories, past incidents, all kinds of activities, experiences – you are the past. You are knowledge, which is the past. So, that is the brain. 所以，大脑包含了……或者说它具有意识的全部内容。 意识就是你的信仰、你的信念、 你的名字、你的才能、你的能力， 所有那些记忆，所有那些伤害、快乐、痛楚、 剧痛、挣扎，所有这些，情感等等， 所有这些都是你意识的内容。 你意识的内容就是你， 就是那个自我，那个“我”。 那种意识的内容也许可以发明出一种比超意识更超级的意识， 或者发明出各种无法想象或想象出来的状态， 但它仍旧是落入于你意识的内容之中的。 我们看到这一点了吗？ 你——你就是你的名字、你的身体、 你的愤怒、你的贪婪、你的竞争、你的野心、 你的快乐、你的痛苦，等等， 你的情感，等等这一切——你就是所有这些东西。 而它们就意味着你意识的内容。 你意识的内容就是过去 ——过去的记忆、过去的事件， 各种过去的活动和经验——你就是过去。 你就是知识——知识就是过去。 所以，这就是大脑。
41:28 We are saying – and the speaker may be wrong, and he has discussed this matter with several so-called scientists, and even then, the speaker may be wrong, please don’t accept what he says, doubt what he says, question, enquire. He says, the brain is the whole limited consciousness with all its content – pleasant, unpleasant, ugly, beautiful, struggle, all that is the content. And the mind is something totally separate from the brain. The mind is outside the brain – the speaker is saying, the scientists are not saying that. The speaker says the brain is one thing and mind is something entirely different. The brain with all its content, with its struggles, with its pain, anxieties, can never know, understand the beauty of love. Love is limitless. It is not, ‘I love one person only’, it is too vast, too tremendous. And the brain with all its conflicts, miseries, confusion, cannot comprehend or hold or be alive to love – only the mind, which is limitless. 而我们说——请注意，讲话者也可能是错的， 他曾经和几位所谓的科学家讨论过这件事， 但即便如此，讲话者也可能是错的， 所以请不要接受他所说的东西， 去怀疑他所说的东西，去质疑，去发问。 他说：大脑就是所有局限的意识 及其全部的内容 ——快乐的、不快乐的、丑陋的、美丽的、挣扎斗争， 所有这些就是意识的内容。 而心灵（mind）则是某种完全脱离于大脑的东西。 心灵是在大脑之外的——这是讲话者的看法， 科学家们并没有这么说。 讲话者说：大脑是一回事， 而心灵则完全是另一回事了。 大脑带着它全部的内容， 它的挣扎斗争，它的痛苦焦虑， 这样的大脑是永远无法知晓或了解爱的美丽的。 爱是无限的。 它并不是“我只爱某个人”，它是无限宽广，无比巨大的。 而大脑带着它所有的冲突、悲惨与困惑， 是无法理解、拥有或感觉到爱的 ——只有那个无限的心灵才可以。
43:35 So there is a difference between the brain and the mind. Then what the questioner doesn’t ask, there is still a further question involved in this: what is the relationship then between the mind and the brain? The brain is limited, limited because it is made up of all kinds of separate parts, fragmented, broken up, and therefore it is in constant state of struggle, conflict. Whereas the mind is totally out of that category. There is a relationship only when the brain is completely free, if that is possible, from all the content of its memories. This requires a great deal of enquiry, sensitivity. Intelligence is not of the brain. The intelligence of thought cannot contain the intelligence of the mind. You understand all this? Does somebody understand what I am talking about? No, all right. 所以大脑和心灵是有区别的。 然而，这个提问者还有一个东西没问， 这其中还包含了一个更进一步的问题， 那就是：大脑和心灵的关系是什么呢？ 大脑是局限的， 它之所以有限是因为它是由各种彼此分离的部分所组成的， 它是分裂的，支离破碎的， 因此它处于持续不断的斗争和冲突的状态中。 然而，心灵则是完全超脱于这个范畴的。 只有当大脑彻底摆脱了——如果可能的话—— 摆脱了它记忆的全部内容，那时它俩才会有关系。 而这需要大量的探询和敏感性。 智慧并不属于大脑。 思维理性的“智慧”是无法包含心灵的智慧的。 你们理解所有这些了吗？ 有人明白我在说什么吗？ 没有人明白。好吧。
45:31 Look, sirs, be very simple, because if one can be very simple you can go very far. But if you begin with lots of complex theories and conclusions you are stuck there, so let’s be very simple. Your daily life – going to the office, working, working, working, money, trained in certain disciplines as a lawyer, surgeon, businessman, or a cook or whatever it is – your brain is being narrowed down, limited. If I am a physicist I spend years and years learning about physics, studying it, investigating, research into it, so my brain is naturally, through this peculiar culture that we have, is being narrowed down. There are two scientists here, they agree. And our brain has become mechanical, routine, small, because we are so concerned with ourselves, always living in a very small area of like, dislike, pain, sorrow, and all the rest of it. But the mind is something entirely different. You cannot understand or comprehend the nature of that mind if your brain is limited. You cannot understand the limitless when your life is limited. So that is the relationship – the relationship between the brain and the mind can only take place when the brain is free from its content. This is a complex question, it requires much more going into but we haven’t the time for it. 你瞧，先生们，你们要非常简单才行， 因为如果你能够变得非常简单，那你就可以走得很远。 但如果你一开始就带着很多复杂的理论和结论， 那你就会陷入困境了，所以我们要非常简单才行。 你的日常生活——去办公室上班，工作、工作，还是工作， 挣钱，你接受过某种培训， 成为了一名律师、外科医生、商人、厨师或者无论什么—— 你的大脑变得狭隘了、局限了。 如果我是一名物理学家，我花费了许多年学习了物理学， 我学习它、研究它、探索它， 因此经由这种我们所拥有的特定文化，我的大脑很自然地就会 变得狭隘了。 这里也有两位科学家，他们也表示同意。 我们的大脑已经变得机械化、例行公事和渺小了， 因为我们是如此地关心我们自己， 总是生活在一个非常狭小的圈子里：其中充斥着喜欢、不喜欢、痛苦、悲伤， 等等。 然而心灵却是某种截然不同的东西。 如果你的大脑是局限的， 你就无法理解或领会心灵的本质了。 当你的生活是局限的，你就无法了解那个无限之物了。 所以那种关系—— 想要大脑和心灵发生关系， 只有当大脑摆脱掉了它的内容后才可以。 这是一个复杂的问题，它需要我们更深入其中才行， 但我们时间有限，没法继续了。
48:21 6th Question: What is faith? （第六个问题）什么是信念（faith）？
48:29 What is faith? Faith in God, faith. I have faith in my wife, she won’t betray me. I have faith in my husband. I have faith in my business. Faith. The whole Christendom, all the religious structure and nature of Christianity is based on faith. And there they do not question, they do not have doubt, scepticism. If you have faith in God then you cannot possibly allow any form of scepticism, doubt to enter, or in the Islamic world. But in the Hindu world and in the Buddhist world doubt is one of the necessary qualities to cleanse the brain. You have faith, haven’t all of you, belief? Have you ever questioned your belief, your faith and your illusions? Or you just accept them. When you have faith you have put aside altogether any question of investigation. Suppose I believe in God, believe, have faith in God, then every question, every doubt must be set aside because my belief in God is based on fear. I don’t know what the world is, somebody has created it, and I like to think God has created it, that’s one kind of belief. The scientists say there is no such thing as God, it is a natural growth of evolution from the cell into the very complex cells of the human brain. 什么是信念？对上帝的信念，那种信心。 我对我的妻子很有信心，我相信她不会背叛我。 我对我的丈夫很有信心。 我对我的生意很有信心。那种信念。 整个基督教世界， 基督教全部的宗教结构和本质， 都是建立在信念之上的。 在基督教中，人们并不会去询问， 人们不会去怀疑和质疑。 如果你相信上帝的话，你就不可能允许 任何怀疑和质疑进来了， 在伊斯兰教的世界也是如此。 但是在印度教世界和佛教世界， 怀疑是清理净化大脑必要品质之一。 你有信念，你们所有人都有，不是吗？那种信仰？ 你是否曾经质疑过你的信仰、你的信念， 和你的幻想？ 还是说你只是接受了它们。 当你有了信念， 你就会把任何有关调查研究的问题都抛开了。 假如我信仰上帝， 信仰，我相信上帝， 那么任何疑问、任何怀疑，都必须放在一边了， 因为我对上帝的信仰是基于恐惧的。 我不知道这个世界是什么，有人创造出了它， 我倾向于认为是上帝创造出了它， 这是一种信仰。 而科学家们说，并不存在诸如上帝这样的东西， 它只是一种自然的进化成长，从简单的细胞成长为 非常非常复杂的人类大脑的细胞。
51:19 So, why do we have faith? Isn’t that very restricting, narrowing down, limiting, and doesn’t faith divide people? The Christians’ faith and Islamic faith, and the Hindus who probably have no faith about anything at all, and so there is constant conflict between them all. 所以，为什么我们要有信念呢？ 它难道不是非常束缚、狭隘和局限吗？ 信念难道不是分裂了人类吗？ 基督教徒的信念，伊斯兰教徒的信念， 以及可能对任何事物都没有信念的印度教徒， 所以在他们这些人之间有着持续不断的冲突。
51:59 You see, there is also another complex question involved in this: why do we have ideals? The whole communist world is based on the theoretical supposition of Marx, Stalin and so on, Lenin. They are their gods. And they believe in what they have said as Christians believe in what the Bible says, or the Koran, or you with your Gita, Upanishads or something else. You are all absorbing what the books say, but you never for yourself question the whole thing. Because the moment you question, doubt, you have to rely on yourself, and therefore you are frightened. Therefore much better to have faith in something illusory, something that doesn’t really actually exist. But if you know for yourself, I have to understand my own life, I have to see if it is possible to bring about a great revolution in my life, then you start from there. But if you have faith in something, you are living in an extraordinarily illusory world. 你瞧，这其中还包含了另一个复杂的问题： 为什么我们要有理想？ 整个共产主义的世界 都是基于马克思、斯大林、 列宁等人的理论假设的。他们就是那些人的上帝。 人们相信他们所说的东西， 就像基督教徒相信《圣经》所说的东西，伊斯兰教徒相信《古兰经》， 或者你们相信《薄伽梵歌》、《奥义书》或者其他什么书一样。 你们都接受了书上所说的东西， 但你们从来没有自己去质疑这整件事情。 因为当你去质疑、去怀疑的时候， 你就必须依靠你自己了，所以你感到害怕。 所以还不如去相信某些虚无缥缈的东西， 某些其实并不真正存在的事物。 但如果你自己心中清楚：我必须要去了解我自己的生活， 我必须去看看是否可能 为自己的生活带来一次巨大的变革， 那么你就可以从这里开始了。 但如果你信仰某个事物， 你就是活在一个无比虚幻的世界中。
53:55 You have got a lot of questions. 你们的问题很多啊。
54:05 7th Question: If human consciousness is one, how is it that one person is happy and the other is unhappy? Also you say thought is ‘me’. Please show me how. （第七个问题）：如果人类的意识是同一的， 又怎么可能会有人幸福，有人不幸福呢？ 此外，你说思想就是“我”。请向我展示下这是怎么回事。
54:29 If human consciousness is one, how is it that one person is happy and the other, unhappy? Also you say thought is me – please show me how. 如果人类的意识是同一的， 又怎么可能会有人幸福，有人不幸福呢？ 此外，你说思想就是“我”——请向我展示下这是怎么回事。
55:07 Are you happy? And why is another unhappy? You are born rich, your grandfathers and grandparents have left you a factory or a business, and you are quite happy with it. And another is born in a little village, uneducated, toiling day after day on a piece of earth which is the size of this room, or half the size of this hall, working on it, living on a pittance and he is unhappy, he doesn’t know about happiness or unhappiness, he is working, working, working. Does happiness depend on circumstances, on work, on what you are doing, or on your satisfaction in doing something? What do you call happiness, and what do you call unhappiness? Happiness can be said that when you are satisfied. I am satisfied in doing something and feel very happy about it. And I am not satisfied in doing something and I am very unhappy about it. Is satisfaction synonymous with happiness? And am I seeking continuously satisfaction? Which means I am seeking all the time gratification and I will be happy. Or is happiness something that comes and goes, that is a by-product, it is not very important? 你幸福吗？ 为什么有人会不幸福？ 你生在一个富裕家庭， 你的祖父和祖父母留给了你一个工厂或生意， 你对此感到很幸福。 而另一个人，他出生在一个小村庄，没有受过教育， 在一块田地上，日复一日地辛勤劳作， 这块田地可能也就这个房间这么大，或者礼堂的一半大， 他在田里劳作，靠着微薄的收入而生活，他不幸福， 但他其实并不知道什么幸福或不幸福， 他只是工作、工作，再工作。 幸福是取决于环境，取决于工作吗？ 幸福是取决于你在做的事情， 或者你做这件事的满意程度吗？ 你把什么称为“幸福”？把什么称为“不幸福”呢？ 当你感到满意的时候，你可以说是幸福的。 我在做某事时感到满意，所以我很幸福。 而在做另外事情时，我觉得不满意， 所以我感到很不幸福。 满意和幸福能划上等号吗？ 我是不是在不断地寻找满意呢？ 也就是说，我一直在寻求满足， 然后我才会幸福。 还是说，幸福是某种来了又去的东西， 它只是一个「副产品」，它并不是很重要？
57:36 And also the questioner asks, thought is ‘me’, show me how. What do you mean ‘show you how’? On a screen in a television? Or make a diagram? Or show you verbally? Which is, you accept intellectually if the speaker explains, thought is ‘me’. Would you understand it? The speaker will explain, that is, he will describe, he will explain step by step. And will you see the truth of it, or say, ‘No, that is not the self. Self is something far superior. It is divine, it is atman, it is something else’. So how will you receive an explanation? Knowing the explanation, the description, the word, is not the thing? The window, the word ‘window’ is not the actual window. I can paint a mountain but the painting is not the actual mountain. So we can go into this together. I can’t show it to you. I can’t put it on a screen, television, and show it to you; there it is. But if we can together investigate, if you are willing. If you are bored with it, all right, be bored with it. 此外，这个提问者还问到： （你说）思想就是“我”，请向我展示下这是怎么回事（show me how）。 你所说的“请向你展示下这是怎么回事”，是什么意思呢？ 在电视机屏幕上向你展示吗？ 还是绘制一个图表？ 或者口头上告诉你？ 也就是说，你在思想理性上接受了讲话者关于「思想就是“我”」的解释。 你理解这一点吗？ 讲话者会来解释，也就是说，他将会来描述， 他将会一步一步地来解释它。 那么你能看到这其中的真相吗？ 还是说，“不，那并不是自我。自我是某种远远更高的事物。 它是神圣的、它是阿特曼（atman），它是某种别的东西”。 所以，你要如何来接收一个解释呢？ ——当你知道解释、描述、文字， 并不是它们所指的东西时？ 窗户，「窗户」这个词，它并不是真实的那个窗户。 我可以画一座高山，然而那幅画并不是真正的那座高山。 所以我们可以一起来探究它。但我无法向你展示它。 我无法把它放在某个屏幕上，放在电视上， 然后向你展示它：你看，它就是这样。 但如果我们可以一起来探究它——如果你也愿意的话。 但如果你厌烦这样做，也没关系，那就厌烦好了。
1:00:08 So let us together find out. What are you? If you are really frank, serious, when that question is put to you, what are you? Aren’t you your name? aren’t you your face, your eyes, your nose, your hair and so on, physically? Aren’t you the anger, aren’t you the greed, or the greed is separate from you? Aren’t you, when there is anxiety, aren’t you that anxiety? When you are suffering, suffering when one loses one’s wife, husband, children, or grandmother, etc., are you not suffering? And is that suffering something separate from you? Aren’t you all that? Or do you think – think – that you are separate from all that? Right, sir? Are you separate from all that? Are you separate from your anger, jealousy, from your bank account? You are your bank account, aren’t you? Or if I take away your bank account you say, ‘That’s not me’. Would you say that? ‘You can take my bank account because it is not me’. How you would howl if I took away your bank account. So you are your bank account, you are your furniture, you are your house, your insurance, your mortgage, your money. But if you say, ‘I am not all that, there is something in me that is watching all this’, is that a fact? Or you have invented it? Many people say there is super-super-consciousness above all this consciousness. That is, is that not invented by thought? Is not your bank account – not the coin, not the notes – all that is not the result of thought? Is not your recognition of your wife, your husband, isn’t that thought? So aren’t you all the memory of the past, all the tradition of the past – as a Hindu, as a Brahmin, non-Brahmin, and all that business – aren’t you all that? Of course you are. 所以让我们一起来把它搞清楚吧。 「你」是什么呢？ 如果你真的很坦诚，很认真，那么当有人问你这个问题时， 你觉得你是什么？ 你不就是你的名字吗？ 从物理层面来说，你不就是你的脸、你的眼睛、你的鼻子、 你的头发，等等这些吗？ 你不就是你的愤怒、你的贪婪吗？ 还是说，那种贪婪和你是分离的？ 你不就是——当你焦虑的时候——你不就是那个焦虑吗？ 当你痛苦的时候， 当你因为失去了自己的妻子、丈夫、 孩子、祖母等等而痛苦不堪时，你不就是那种痛苦吗？ 那种痛苦难道是某个和你分离的事物吗？ 你不就是所有这一切吗？ 还是说你认为——只是“你认为”——你和所有这些东西是分离的？ 对吗，先生？ 你和所有这些东西是分离的吗？ 你和你的愤怒、嫉妒，以及银行存款是分离的吗？ 你就是你的银行存款，难道不是吗？ 还是说，如果我拿走你的银行存款，你会说，“那些钱不是我”。 你会这样说吗？ “你可以拿走我的银行存款，因为它们并不是我”。 要是我真拿走你的银行存款，你会怎样地痛苦哀嚎啊。 所以你就是你的银行存款，你就是你的家具， 你就是你的房子、你的保险、你的抵押贷款、你的金钱。 但如果你说，“我并不是所有这些东西， 我的内在有「某个东西」正在旁观着这一切”， 那么那个东西是事实吗？ 还是说，是你发明了它？ 很多人说：存在着那种比超意识更高的意识， 这种意识凌驾于所有那些意识之上。 那么，这个东西难道不是思想所发明的吗？ 你的银行存款——不是那些钱币和票据—— 所有这些东西难道不是思想的产物吗？ 你对于你妻子或丈夫的识别， 那难道不是思想吗？ 所以，你不就是所有过去的记忆， 所有过去的传统吗？ 你是一个印度教徒，你是一个婆罗门，或者非婆罗门， 所有这些东西——你难道不是所有这些东西吗？ 毫无疑问，你就是这些东西。
1:04:27 So, you are the knowledge which is the past. You are nothing but memories. Would you accept that? Of course not. Aren’t you? If all your memories were taken away, what are you? You would be a vegetable. So your memories, which is always the past, is what you are. Your tradition, as a Hindu, as a Parsi, as a Muslim and so on, that’s the result of years of propaganda, years of tradition, which is the activity of thought. So you are thought. If you don’t think at all, what are you? So you are the whole content of the past. That past is modifying itself in the present and continues as the future. So you are the past, the present and the future. In you all time is contained. Oh, you don’t understand all this. And the self, the ‘me’, my name, my quality, my achievement, my ambition, my pain, my sorrow, is all the past. And so the self is the essence of the past, which is memory, knowledge. And therefore the self is very, very limited. And that’s why the self is causing so much mischief in the world. Each self is out for itself. You are out for your own self, aren’t you? If you were honest, see this clearly, aren’t you out for yourself? Your ambition, your achievement, your fulfilment, your satisfaction. So thought is you. Thought is limited, because all knowledge is limited. Therefore your self is the most limited thing. And therefore you are causing enormous sorrow, enormous conflict, because the self is separative, divisive. 所以，你就是知识——即过去。 你只不过就是那些记忆。 你接受认可这一点吗？很显然你不会。 你会吗？ 如果你所有的记忆都被拿掉了，你又是什么呢？ 你将会成为一个植物人。 所以你的记忆——它们永远都是过去——你的记忆就是「你」。 你的传统，印度教徒的传统，拜火教徒的传统，穆斯林的传统等等， 它们是无数年以来宣传洗脑和传统沿袭的结果， 它们是思想的活动。 所以你就是思想。 如果你完全不思考的话，你又是什么呢？ 所以你就是过去全部的内容。 那个过去在当下修改它自己， 然后作为「未来」而延续下去。 所以你就是过去、现在和未来。 在你之中就包含了全部的时间。 噢，你们并不理解这一切。 而那个自我，那个“我”，我的名字，我的品性，我的成就， 我的抱负，我的痛苦，我的悲伤，这些全都是过去。 因此自我就是过去的本质， 也就是记忆和知识。 因此自我是非常非常有限的。 这也是为什么自我导致了世界上如此多伤害罪恶的原因。 每一个自我都在追逐一己私利。 你也一样，不是吗？ 如果你很诚实，看得很清楚的话，你难道不是在追求一己私利吗？ 你的抱负，你的成就，你的满足，你的满意。 所以思想就是你。 而思想是局限，因为所有的知识都是局限的。 因此你的自我是最局限的东西。 所以你们导致了如此巨大的苦难和冲突， 因为自我是分离的、分裂的。
1:08:31 So, sirs, the speaker has explained. The explanation is not the fact. The fact is for you to see this for yourself. If you see this for yourself and say, ‘I like the way I am going on’, perfectly all right. But you know for yourself that you are creating havoc in the world, and you prefer to live that way, good luck to you. But there might be some who say that is not the way to live. One must live with a global brain, without any division, without any nationality, without any self. Don’t make that into some kind of heightened illumination only a few can reach. Anybody who sets his brain and heart to understand the nature of the self and be free of that self, anybody can do it if they put their mind. 所以，先生们，讲话者已经解释过它了。但解释并非事实。 事实是要你亲自去看到的。 如果你自己看到了它，然后说，“我喜欢我现在的生活方式”， 那么完全没问题。 但是你自己清楚，你正在制造着这个世界的浩劫， 而如果你更喜欢这样的生活方式，那只能祝你好运了。 但也许会有一些人说：这并不是我们应有的生活方式。 我们必须带着全球视野的头脑去生活， 没有任何分裂，没有任何国籍， 没有任何自我。 请不要把它变成某种高高在上的、 只有少数人才能达到的「开悟」境界。 任何人都可以做到它，只要他能动用自己的头脑和心灵 去了解自我的本质， 并摆脱掉那个自我， 如果他们用心的话，就可以做到它。
1:10:07 Right, sir. May I answer one more question? After that we’ll stop. It’s ten o’clock. Probably you have to go to your own jobs and all the rest of it 好了，先生。 我可以再回答一个问题吗？回答完以后我们就结束。 现在已经十点钟了。 也许你们得去忙自己的工作，等等那些事情了
1:10:28 Ten past ten, sorry. One more question and that’s the end of it. 十点十分了，很抱歉。再回答一个问题，然后就结束。
1:10:42 Oh, I’ve answered this question. 噢，我已经回答过这个问题了。
1:10:59 8th Question: If the great religions of the world are not religions, what is then religion? （第八个问题）：如果全世界伟大的宗教 都不是宗教，那么什么才是宗教？
1:11:10 That’s the question. It is not printed clearly. 这就是所给的问题。 这上面的字印得不是很清楚。
1:11:18 If the great religions of the world are not true religions, what is true religion? 如果全世界伟大的宗教都不是真正的宗教， 什么才是真正的宗教？
1:11:32 Why do you say, ‘if’ the great religions are not true religions? Why do you say ‘if’? Are they religions? You answer that question. You all go to temples probably. You have all had marriage ceremonies and puja, etc. Are they religions? Great religions; Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, are they religions? Which is, their rituals, their hierarchy, their faith, belief, their going to temple and offering enormous sums of money to some things made by hand or by the mind, which you call God, is all that religion? You accept it as religion. But if you question, doubt, then you begin to ask, obviously these things are all put together by thought. The Bible, the Koran and your own so-called religious books, they are all put down by thought. They are not divine revelations, they are not straight from God’s mouth. I know you love to think that. But thought has operated and put down on a piece of paper, and then you accept it as something extraordinarily sacred. 为什么你要说「如果」那些伟大的宗教不是真正的宗教？ 为什么你要说「如果」？ 难道它们是宗教吗？ 你来回答这个问题。 你们可能都会去寺庙。 你们都举行过结婚仪式，做过印度教的礼拜，等等。 它们是宗教吗？ 那些伟大的宗教：基督教，伊斯兰教，印度教，佛教， 它们是宗教吗？ 也就是说：它们的那些仪式，它们的等级制度， 它们的信念、信仰， 去寺庙里，把大笔的钱献给所谓的“神明” ——这些“神明”是由你们的双手或头脑所制造出来的， 这一切是宗教吗？ 你们把它视为宗教。 但如果你去质疑一下，怀疑一下， 那么你就会开始发问了， 很显然，这些东西全都是思想拼凑起来的。 《圣经》、《古兰经》以及你们自己的那些所谓的宗教圣典， 它们都是由思想所写就的。 它们并不是神的启示， 它们并不是神亲口说的。 我知道你们喜欢这样认为。 但那是思想运转了以后，在纸上把它们写了下来， 然后你们将它视为某种无比神圣的事物。
1:13:51 So, if you brush aside all that, and that requires scepticism, a sense of freedom to observe, freedom from fear, totally from fear, then you can find out for yourself what is religion. That is, is there something sacred, not invented by thought, not measured by words, is there something that is immeasurable, timeless? This has been a question from the ancient of times. The ancient Egyptians, the Greeks, all the great past civilizations have asked this question: is there something beyond all this which thought has not invented? Which thought has not touched? Because thought can be measured. Thought is a material process, and whatever it invents is not sacred. So to find that out the brain must be entirely free from its content, from fear, from anxiety, from the sense of terrible loneliness, from death. Then only you will find out what is truth, what is the highest form of religion. 所以，如果你能扫除掉这一切——这需要质疑的态度， 一种自由观察的感觉， 摆脱掉恐惧， 彻底摆脱掉恐惧， 然后你就可以自己去发现什么是宗教了。 换句话说：是否存在某种神圣之物， 它不是思想所发明的，也无法用语言文字来度量， 是否存在某种不可度量的、超越时间的事物？ 这个问题从远古时代起就有了。 古代的埃及人、希腊人， 所有过去伟大的文明都曾经问过这个问题： 是否存在某种超越这一切的东西，那种并非由思想所发明的， 思想还未触及过的事物？ 因为思想是可以被度量的。 思想是一个物质化的过程， 所以任何它所发明的事物都不是神圣的。 所以要搞清楚这个问题， 大脑就必须完全摆脱掉它的内容， 摆脱恐惧，摆脱焦虑， 摆脱掉可怕的孤独感，摆脱掉死亡。 只有那时你才能发现什么是真理， 什么是最高形式的宗教。