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BR76D2 - 思想能够洞察整体吗？
第二次公开讨论
英国布洛克伍德公园
1976年9月2日



0:22 What shall we talk over, this morning? 克：今天早上我们要讨论些什么？
0:28 Questioner: Sir, a written question was handed in to you, which briefly says, when our energy is not dissipated by thought, when we are free from thought, what governs our actions? On what basis do we live? 问：先生，有一个问题写下来交给你了， 简言之就是，当我们的能量未被思想所耗散， 当我们摆脱了思想的束缚时，是什么在支配着我们的行动？ 我们依据什么来生活呢？
0:51 K: The question is, when we do not waste our energy through the conflict of thought, through opposing desires and self-contradiction, how is that energy utilised? How does one live with that energy, in daily life? That’s one of the questions. 克：这个问题是，当我们不浪费自身的能量 ——不再经由思想的冲突， 经由各种互相对抗的欲望以及自我矛盾而浪费能量时， 这股能量要如何被运用？ 在日常生活之中，我们要如何伴着这股能量生活？ 这是一个问题。
1:25 Q: What happens when fear is so great that it destroys the capacity of observing? 问：当内心的恐惧非常巨大， 巨大到摧毁了观察的能力时会发生什么？
1:33 K: When fear is so great there is a… one is paralysed, or lack of capacity and one loses observation. 克：当恐惧非常强烈时，就会 让一个人麻痹，或者丧失能力， 让一个人丧失观察能力。
1:48 Q: I was going to ask if we could discuss observation, including the art of listening, and why do we find that so difficult? 问：我想问的是要是我们讨论“观察”这个问题， 包括倾听的艺术，为什么我们会感到如此之难呢？
1:57 K: Why do we find it so difficult to listen – the art of listening, and observing. 克：为什么我们会感到倾听是如此之难 ——倾听的艺术以及观察。
2:10 Q: Could we go on discussing what we were last time? 问：我们能不能继续讨论我们上次所探讨的？
2:17 K: Which was what, sir? 克：上次讨论的是什么，先生？
2:20 Q: We were moving along discussing… 问：我们一起探讨了
2:30 K: I’ve forgotten, too! 克：我也忘了！
2:41 Q: Could we go into the problem of dreaming? 问：我们能不能探究一下做梦？
2:48 K: Could we discuss the problem of sleep and dreaming. 克：我们能不能探讨一下睡眠和做梦的问题。
2:53 Q: Sir, could we discuss the role of motive and effort in relationship to these talks? 问：先生，我们能不能探讨一下动机和努力 和这些讲话之间的关系呢？
3:11 K: In relationship to thought? 克：（动机和努力）同思想的关系吗？
3:15 Q: No, to these talks. The talks that you are giving. 问：不，是同这几次探讨的关系，这几次你给我们所作的讲话。
3:42 K: I don’t quite understand the question. 克：我不是很明白这个问题。
3:47 K: What is your motive for coming here and listening to these talks? 克：你来到这儿以及倾听这些讲话的动机是什么？
3:58 Q: Motive and effort. 问：动机以及努力。
4:00 K: Motive and effort involved in coming to these talks. I should think you would be able to answer that better than I. 克：是带着动机和努力来听这些讲话的。 我认为你能比我更好地回答这个问题。
4:15 Q: Sir, ethnic groups are facing a terrible danger of survival... 问：先生，少数民族正面临着生死存亡的危险
4:33 K: What is one to do in a world – why the minority group in this country, or in other parts of the world, how are they to survive, and what do you say about it? 克：我们在这个世界上要怎么做 ——为什么这个国家的少数群体 或者世界其他地方的少数群体，他们要如何生存， 你对此有什么看法？
4:51 Q: Could you say something about enlightenment? 问：你能不能谈谈有关开悟的事？
4:56 K: What is enlightenment, and what does it mean to you? 克：什么是开悟，开悟对你来说意味着什么？
5:09 Q: What do you mean by communion? Can you say something about communication and communion? 问：你说的“共享”是什么意思？ 你能说说交流和“共享”吗？
5:23 K: What do you mean by communion? What’s the relationship between communication and communion? That’s enough, please. Could we take that first question? Which was, would you kindly repeat that question? 克：你说的“共享”是什么意思？ 交流和“共享”之间的关系是什么？ 好了，差不多了。 我们能不能先来谈谈第一个问题？ 也就是，能不能请你再说一遍那个问题呢？
5:48 Q: When, through awareness, one passes beyond the action of thought, what then governs our daily life? 问：当一个人经由觉知超越了思想的行动后， 是什么在支配我们的日常生活？
5:59 K: May we take up that question? That is, when one understands the nature and the structure of thought, and the things that thought has put together in this world – as racial minority, as colour difference, national divisions and so on – when thought recognises its limitation and remains within that limitation and so there is freedom from thought, then what takes place? And what is the action of that in our daily life? 克：我们可以来探究这个问题吗？ 也就是，当我们了解了思想的本质和架构， 以及思想在这个世界上所拼凑起来的一切 ——比如少数民族，肤色差异， 国家分裂等等—— 当思想认识到它自身的局限并和这局限共处 并因此摆脱了思想的束缚时， 那会发生什么？ 并且这在我们的日常生活中会起到什么样的作用？
6:47 Q: I believe the questioner also said that within normal thought there is a pattern established. When we are free of that pattern... 问：我认为提问者也问了 在我们常规的思想里存在着某种已有的模式， 当我们摆脱这种模式的束缚
6:58 K: Yes, yes. Shall we deal with that question? Perhaps, we’ll include all other questions in it. Can we go on with that question? 克：是的，是的。我们就探究这个问题好吗？ 也许这样我们就囊括了其他所有的问题。 我们可以继续探究这个问题吗？
7:20 I wonder if one realises, for oneself, how thought is very limited, though it pretends that it is not limited. I wonder if one realises that, first, that all our thinking – politically, religiously, socially, in all directions, at every level of our human existence, do we, as human beings realise, that thought is very limited – limited, in the sense, that it is the outcome, or the response of knowledge, experience and memory and, therefore, it is time-binding and, therefore, limited? Do we see that? Thought is a fragment. It is a fragment because it is the outcome or the response of a past knowledge – therefore, it’s limited. Do we meet this? Do we want to discuss this? Shall we go into that, first? 我想知道我们是不是自己认识到了思想是有多局限， 尽管它装作不是。 首先，我想知道我们是不是认识到了 我们所有的思想——政治上、宗教上、社会上 ——在任何方向上、人类存在的各个层面上都如此， 作为人类的我们是否认识到了思想非常局限 ——“局限”的意思就是它是个产物， 或者是知识、经验和记忆产生的反应， 因此，它被时间束缚，从而是有限的？ 我们看到这点了吗？ 思想是四分五裂的。 它之所以四分五裂是因为它是个产物， 或者是过去知识的反应，因此非常局限。 我们对此达成共识了吗？我们想讨论这个问题吗？ 首先，我们来探究这点好吗？
9:05 Can thought perceive the whole? The whole, in the sense, the whole of human existence, both the conscious as well as the unconscious, the various divisions which thought has brought about, various divisions in religion, in political thought and so on. So, thought is a fragment because it is based on knowledge, and knowledge is experience stored up as memory in the brain. I think most of us would accept this, that thought is very limited. Could we – from there? And thought, whatever it does, whatever its actions, its capacities, its inventions, is still limited, divisive. That is, it has divided the world into nationalities, into minorities, into colour prejudices, you know, all that, the divisions between Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, it is the result of thought. Right? I think this is fairly obvious, for those who, at least, think about it. 思想能不能洞察整体？ “整体”的意思就是人类存在的整体 ——包括意识也包括潜意识， 思想所带来的各种划分， 划分成各种宗教、政治思想等等。 而思想之所以四分五裂是因为它是基于知识之上的， 而知识就是经验——储存在大脑里的记忆。 我认为我们大多数人都会认可这点，也就是思想非常局限。 我们可以从这里开始讨论吗？ 而思想，无论它有何作为，无论它有何行动， 无论它有什么能力、什么发明，仍然是局限的、分裂的。 也就是，思想把这个世界划分成了各种国籍， 划分成了各种少数民族、各种肤色歧视，你知道这一切， 划分成了天主教、新教、印度教， 这都是思想的产物，对吗？ 我认为这相当显而易见，至少对有思考的人来说是这样。
10:47 Next question is, do we see that as a reality? Because we must differentiate between reality and truth, which we’re going to now examine. Do we see the reality – reality, in the sense, what is actual, not ‘what should be,’ or ‘what might have been,’ but actually ‘what is’ – do we see, actually, what thought has done in the world, both technologically with all its vast extraordinary development and what thought has also done – wars, antagonism – all the rest of it. That is a reality, including the illusions that thought has created. I wonder if we see this? You understand my question? Do we see the reality of thought and its action? The reality that thought has created as war – that’s a reality. The reality which thought has created as belief – ‘I believe in God,’ or, ‘I don’t believe in God.’ Thought which has created the divisions between human beings, that’s a reality. So, the things that thought has created are a reality, including the things that thought has created which are illusions, which are neurotic. So, all that is a reality. Right? 接下来的问题是，我们是不是看到了这是现实？ 因为我们必须区分现实和真相， ——我们现在就来检视它们。 我们有没有看到现实——“现实”的意思就是“实际是”， 不是“应该是”，也不是“本应是”， 而是“实际是”—— 我们是不是实事求是地看到了思想在这个世界上的所作所为， 包括技术上所有那些极其非凡的进步， 也包括了思想所做的一切 ——各类战争、敌对——等等这些。 这些是现实， 其中包含了思想所造的幻想。 我想知道我们是不是看到了这点？你明白我的问题吗？ 我们是不是看到了思想所创造的现实及其行动？ 思想所制造的现实——战争，这是个现实。 思想所制造的现实，比如信仰 ——“我信仰上帝”，又或者“我不信上帝。” 思想在人类之间制造了分裂， 这是个现实。 因此，思想制造出来的一切都是现实， 也包括思想制造出来的那些幻想、 神经质的东西。 因此，这一切都是现实。对吗？
13:12 Thought has not created nature, the trees, the mountains, the rivers. So, thought has created the reality, an area in which we live – jealousies, anxieties, fears, pleasures – all that is a reality in our daily life. Right? When one recognises it and goes beyond it, is that possible? You understand my question? One recognises that thought has created all the shambles, all the misery, the confusion, the extraordinary conflicts that are going on in the world which are reality, the illusions to which the mind clings, which is a reality, the neurotic actions which one indulges in, is a reality. When one comes to that point and realises, most profoundly, then what takes place? You understand my question? 思想创造不出自然、树木、群山、河流。 因此，思想制造出了现实，制造了一个我们所生活的领域 ——各种嫉妒、忧虑、恐惧、快感， 这一切都是我们日常生活中的现实。 对吗？ 我们认识到它并且超越它， 这有可能吗？你明白我的问题吗？ 当我们认识到是思想制造了 一切的混乱、痛苦、迷惑， 制造了这世界不断上演的巨大冲突 ——这是现实， 制造了让心灵依赖的幻想，这是现实， 制造了我们所沉溺的神经质行为，这也是现实。 当我们谈到这点并且极其深刻地领会到这点， 那会怎么样？你了解我的问题吗？
14:43 What takes place when I see, when one observes, actually, that thought has divided man? Right? Isn’t that so? – that thought has divided man against man, for various reasons of security, pleasure, sense of separate existence, hoping, through that, to find – etc., etc. So, when you realise it, have an insight into it, into this reality, what takes place? You have understood my question? Come on, please, someone, this is a dialogue. It’s not a talk by me, alone. 会发生什么——当我看到，当我实事求是地观察到 是思想分裂了人类？ 对吗？难道不是这样的吗？ ——是思想分裂了人与人之间的关系， 出于各种理由——安全感、快感、 独立的存在感， 希望借助思想而有所发现，等等。 因此，当你认识到这点，洞悉了这点，洞悉到这个事实， 会发生什么？你明白我的问题了吗？ 拜托，恳请你，这是一场对话， 不是我一个人的讲话。
15:43 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
15:52 K: Sir, please answer my question, if you don’t mind, let’s stick to one thing. Do we realise the nature of thought? 克：先生，请回答我的问题， 如果你不介意，那么让我们锁定在一件事上。 我们有没有认识到思想的本质？
16:04 Q: I was going to answer the question. 问：我正要回答这个问题。
16:10 K: What is the… answer the question. 克：是什么？请回答。
16:13 Q: Well, I think that when you become aware of this reality then it becomes unnecessary.

K: No, no. Does it? 		问：好的，我认为当我们觉知到这个现实， 它就变得可有可无了。

克：不，不。是这样吗？
16:23 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
16:24 K: No, please. When one realises – what do we mean by the word ‘realise’? Which means you actually see the fact, or you have an insight into the fact of the movement of thought, what thought has done in the world. Right? The beautiful things, the appalling things, the technological – what thought has done in the world. When you have an insight into it then what happens to your consciousness? Do you understand my question? What actually takes place when you realise something? And how do you realise it? I realise, see, observe, have experience, being bitten by a snake. It’s a fact. So, what has taken place, then? Experience, pain, the suffering and so, intelligence arises and says, ‘Be careful of that snake.’ Right? Intelligence arises, doesn’t it? The awakening of intelligence is the realisation that thought, whatever it has created, is a reality. So, the realisation of reality, or having an insight into reality, is the awakening of intelligence. You get it? Have you got it? Not I. So, you see the limitation of thought. And to see the limitation with all the implications is an intelligence, isn’t it? I wonder if you see this. Right? Can we go on, from there? 克：哦，拜托。 当我们认识到——我们说的“认识到”是什么意思？ 它意味着你真的看到了事实， 或者是你洞悉了思想运动的事实 ——思想在这个世界上的所作所为。 对吗？美丽的事物，骇人的事物，技术上的成果 ——思想在这个世界上的所作所为。 当你洞悉了这一切， 那么你的意识会怎样？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 当你领悟到某些东西时，究竟会发生些什么？ 你又是如何领悟到它的？ 我认识到，看到，观察到，经验过，被蛇咬过。 这是个事实，那么，接下来会发生什么？ 经验，痛苦，受苦， 于是，智慧生起了并且说，“我要小心那条蛇。” 对吗？智慧觉醒了，不是吗？ 智慧的觉醒就是认识到思想 ——无论它创造了什么——都是现实。 因此，对现实的觉知，或者对现实的洞悉， 就是智慧的觉醒。 你明白吗？你明白了吗？不是我。 因此，你看到了思想的局限。 而要看到思想的局限及其所有的含义 就是智慧，不是吗？ 我不知道你是否看到了这点。 对吗？我们可以从这儿继续下去吗？
19:01 So, what is the relationship between reality, intelligence and truth? You follow? Are you interested in all this? Not verbally, or you know – part of your blood. 因此，它们之间的关系是怎样的——现实、智慧以及真相？ 你跟上了吗？你对这些感兴趣吗？ 不是口头上的，或者你知道的——而是浸入了你的血液。
19:29 Q: Sir, how can one realise that all thought is limited? There are parts where thought is necessary. 问：先生，我们要怎么认识到一切思想都是局限的呢？ 总有某些部分是少不了思想的。
19:39 K: We said that. 克：我们说过这个。
19:41 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
19:52 K: How does one realise thought is limited? That was the question, first. He asked that question. We said thought is limited because it’s fragmentary, it is fragmentary because it is based… it is the response of memory, and memory is very limited. Memory, though it is limited, must be orderly. I wonder if you see all this. Thought must function sanely, rationally, in the world of knowledge, which is the technological world. But when that thought operates in relationship, in human relationship, there is disorder, which is a reality. I wonder if you see that. Because thought creates the image about you and you create image about another. Thought is the process of creating these images. Right? Thought creates, in relationship, disorder. No? So, disorder indicates the operation of thought in relationship. Right? And when thought operates in the field of knowledge, it is orderly. Technological world, it must be completely orderly. 克：我们要怎么认识到思想是局限的？ 首先是这个问题。他问了这个问题。 我们说思想很局限是因为它是四分五裂的， 它之所以四分五裂是因为它是基于 它是记忆的反应，而记忆很局限。 记忆——尽管很局限——必须有秩序。 我不知道这些你是否都明白。 思想必须健全、合理地运作——在知识的领域， 也就是技术的领域。 而当思想在关系之中——人类的关系之中运作时， 就会出现混乱——这是个事实。 我不知道你是否看到了这点。 因为是思想制造了有关你的意象， 而你制造了有关他人的意象。 思想就是制造这些意象的过程，对吗？ 思想在关系之中制造了混乱。 不是吗？ 因此，混乱表明了思想在关系之中运作，对吗？ 而当思想在知识的领域里运作时，它是有序的。 在技术的领域里，思想必须完全有序。
22:04 So, do we realise, do you realise, or have an insight into the operation of the whole movement of thought? – its nature, its structure, its activity, both the conscious level as well as at the deeper level, the whole movement of thought, which is part of meditation – not the control of thought but the awareness of this movement of thought, and seeing its limitation. Can we move from there? I know you’re eager to move to something when you haven’t actually done it. I’m keeping to the one fact, which is, unless this is so you can’t go much further. 因此，我们有没有认识到，你有没有认识到 或者洞悉到整个思想活动的运作 ——它的本质、它的架构、它的活动， 包括意识层面的也包括更深层的层面， 思想的整个运动—— 这就是冥想的一部分，不是控制思想， 而是觉察思想的这种运动， 并且看到它的局限。 我们能不能从这儿开始探究？ 我知道你很渴望转移到别的事上去 ——在你实际上尚未做到这点时。 我坚守唯一的事实，也就是，除非你实际做到了， 不然你无法探究得更深远。
23:17 Q: Sir, I think we should discuss this point more until it is very clear how this perception can take place of the whole movement of thought. 问：先生，我认为我们应该更多地去讨论这点， 讨论到这点很清晰了为止——这种洞悉是怎么发生的， 对思想的整个运动的洞悉是怎么发生的。
23:28 K: Right. How do you see the whole movement of thought? How do you see the totality of something? How do you see the totality of yourself? Let’s begin with that – much better. How do you see the totality, the dreams, the division between conscious and the unconscious, the innumerable prejudices, fears, anxieties, grief, sorrow, affection, jealousy, antagonism, faith in something which is non-existent but you believe, and especially the Christians have this thing, faith – so do you see the totality of all that, not fragmented, not each fragment? You understand what I’m saying? No? So, is it possible to see the totality of all this? What prevents us from seeing the whole movement of this? – my attachments, my prejudices, my beliefs, my experience, my desires, contradictory, conflict, misery, confusion – you follow? – the whole of that. What prevents us from seeing the totality of this? It’s only when we see the totality of it there is a complete action, otherwise it’s a fragmentary action. Are we meeting each other, now? 克：好的，你是怎么看到思想的整个运动的？ 你是怎么看到它的整体的？ 你怎么看到自己的整体？ 我们最好从这里开始。 你怎么看到整体——梦， 对意识和潜意识的划分， 无数的偏见、恐惧、忧虑、 哀伤、悲痛、偏爱、嫉妒、敌意、 信仰着根本不存在的事物但你却笃信， 特别是基督徒抱有信仰这种东西 ——因此你有没有看到这一切的整体， 没有四分五裂，也不是只看到一个个碎片？ 你明白我说的吗？不明白？ 因此，有没有可能看到这一切的整体？ 是什么阻碍了我们看到这个整体的运动呢？ 我的依恋、我的偏见、我的信仰、我的经验、 我的欲望、矛盾、冲突、痛苦、混乱 ——你跟上了吗？——这个整体。 是什么阻碍了我们看到这个整体？ 只有当我们看到这个整体时，才会有完整的行动， 否则，就只是种分裂的行动。 现在我们互相达成共识了吗？
25:52 Our life is fragmented – I go to the office, I’m a different person there, fighting, ambition, all the rest, I come home and I’m a different person there, and I go to church – if I go to church, at all – I’m a different person there, and so on, I’m fragmented, broken up. And so, our actions are broken up and, therefore, contradictory and, therefore, each action brings its own anxiety, its own regrets, its own confusion. So, to end all that I must see the totality of it. Right? Totality of my life – my actions, my desires, my relationships, my longings, my fear, all the rest of it. Now, what prevents it? 我们的生活是四分五裂的——我上班， 我在那儿是另外一个人——努力奋斗、野心勃勃，等等， 回到家我又是另一个人， 并且我还会去教堂——如果我去的话—— 我又完全是另一个人等等， 我是四分五裂、支离破碎的。 因此我们的行动也是支离破碎的，也因此矛盾重重， 因而各个行动也会引发自身的焦虑， 自身的懊悔，自身的混乱。 因此，要终结这一切，我必须看到整体。 对吗？我生活的整体——我的行动、我的欲望、 我的关系、我的渴望、我的恐惧，等等一切。 那么，是什么阻碍了看到？
27:02 Q: Thought. 问：思想。
27:03 K: Thought has created all this, hasn’t it? 克：是思想创造了这一切，不是吗？
27:09 Q: When I look at jealousy, I am looking from the point of jealousy, at jealousy. I think that both things are different. 问：当我看着嫉妒时， 我是由嫉妒的观念去看嫉妒的。 我以为这两者是有区别的。
27:15 K: Yes, that’s one point. That is, the observer is the observed, which we went into. I don’t want to go into that thing over and over and over again. It gets rather boring. 克：是的，这是一点。 也就是，观察者就是所观之物，这个我们探究过了。 我不想一遍又一遍地反复讲这点。 那会让人觉得相当乏味。
27:26 Q: Sir, I think the sensation of fear might prevent us seeing it. 问：先生，我认为也许是恐惧感阻碍了我们去看。
27:32 K: Yes, sir. Fear. Does fear prevent you from seeing the totality of life, of your life? 克：是的，先生。恐惧。 是恐惧阻碍了你去看生活——你的生活的整体吗？
27:49 Q: The image of ‘me’ that thought has produced. 问：思想制造了有关“我”的意象。
27:57 K: ‘Me’ that thought has produced. But the ‘me’ is the totality of all this, isn’t it? – my fears, my anxieties, my sexual demands, this, that, ten, umpteen different things is ‘me.’ What prevents…? You’re not answering my question. 克：思想制造了“我”。 而这个“我”就是这一切的整体，不是吗？ 我的恐惧、我的忧虑、我的性需求、这个、那个， 数十种、无数各式各样的东西就是“我”。 是什么阻碍了……你并没有回答我的问题。
28:20 Q: We have not got the energy. 问：是因为我们没有能量。
28:26 K: When you’ve got the energy. Haven’t you got the energy? Haven’t you got the energy to come and listen to these unfortunate talks? You have taken the trouble, you know, money, all that, to come. You’ve got plenty of energy when you want to do something. 克：当你有了能量。你没有能量吗？ 你不是有能量来听这些倒霉的演讲吗？ 你会不辞劳苦，你知道的，费钱又费事地跑过来听。 当你想做某件事时就会有充沛的能量。
28:51 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
28:54 K: I’m asking you a question, please answer. What prevents you from seeing the total existence of your life, of your daily life? 克：我是在问你问题，恳请你回答。 是什么阻碍了你看到自己生活的整个存在， 你日常生活的整个存在呢？
29:06 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
29:18 K: You are not answering my question.

Q: Because one doesn’t want to. 		克：你没有回答我的问题。

问：是因为我们不想看。
29:24 K: I don’t want anything, sir. I am asking you a very simple question. I’m asking you, what is it that prevents you from seeing the totality of your life? You say it is lack of energy. You have got plenty of energy when you want to do something. When you want to earn money you spend the rest of your life earning it. 克：可我也不想要任何东西，先生。 我是在问你一个很简单的问题。 我在问你，是什么阻碍了你 去看自己生活的整体？ 你说是因为缺少能量。 可当你想做某件事时，你就会有充沛的能量。 当你想赚钱时，你的余生都会用在赚钱上。
29:59 Q: We don’t want to see ourselves. 问：是因为我们不想看自己。
30:00 K: Is it that you don’t want to see the totality of it, or is it that there is no capacity to see? And capacity implies culture, cultivating, doesn’t it? So, you will take time to see the totality of your life, take another year to find out. 克：是因为你不想看到它的整体？ 还是因为你没有能力看到呢？ 能力意味着有文化、去培养，对吗？ 因此，你要花时间去看自己生活的整体， 再花一年时间去找出真相。
30:24 Q: Nothing could be more dreadful than to look at all the misery. 问：没有什么比看着所有的痛苦更糟糕的了。
30:27 K: You don’t answer. Is it fear? Is it that you don’t want to see it? Is it your habit, your tradition, your conditioning? 克：你没有回答。是恐惧吗？ 是因为你不想看吗？ 是因为你的习惯、你的传统、你的局限吗？
30:43 Q: The fragment is trying to look at the whole. 问：碎片试图去看整体。
30:47 K: I am asking you. Are you saying the fragment cannot see the whole? So, you’re using thought to see the whole. Is it? And you know, at the same time, thought is a fragmentary affair, so through the fragment you hope to see the whole – is that it? So, you don’t realise, actually, that thought is a fragment. By putting many fragments together, which thought does, which it calls ‘integration,’ and hoping thereby to see the whole. It can’t. So, do we realise that thought cannot see the whole? 克：我在问你。 你是说碎片无法看到整体吗？ 因此，你是在用思想去看整体。 是吗？ 同时你知道，思想就是个四分五裂的东西， 因此经由碎片你希望看到整体，是这样吗？ 所以，你并未真正意识到思想是碎片。 把许多碎片拼凑起来，这是思想的作为， 思想称之为“整合”， 并希冀因此而看到整体。它办不到。 因此，我们有没有认识到思想是无法看到整体的？
31:54 Q: Is it, we understand it, well, I understand it, but I don’t realise it. Realising it is something that… 问：是的，我们都理解这点，哦，我理解这点， 但是我并没有领悟到，领悟到是另一回事
32:04 K: He says, ‘I understand it but I don’t realise it.’ When you use the word ‘understand,’ what do you mean by that word? Intellectually, verbally understand. 克：他说，“理解了但并没有领悟到。” 你用了“理解”这个词，这个词是什么意思？ 智性上、口头上理解了。
32:16 Q: I see the truth of what you’re saying. 问：我看到了你所说的真相。
32:18 K: If you see the truth, it is the whole. No, please, don’t answer me. Would you kindly look at it for a minute? Don’t answer my question. Please, find out. Please, listen to what I’m saying. Listen, you understand, listen, not translate what I’m saying into your own terminology, don’t interpret it, just listen as you would listen to the wind, the wind among the leaves. Just listen to it. I am asking you, what prevents a human being, like yourself, to see the total movement of your activities which bring sorrow, pain, the whole of it, at one glance? 克：要是你看到了真相，它就是整体了。 不，拜托，不要回答我。 请你看一会儿好吗？ 不要回答我的问题，恳请你，去发现真相。 请听我说。倾听，你知道的——倾听， 不是将我说的话诠释成你自己的专用语， 不要阐释它，只是听着，就如你聆听风声 ——树叶丛中的风声一般，只是听着它。 我在问你，是什么阻碍了一个人，阻碍了你 一目了然地看到你各种行为的整体运动呢？ 正是这些活动引致了悲伤、痛苦，所有这一切。
33:21 Q: Because we attempt to express it in words. 问：因为我们企图用言语来表达它。
33:33 Q: I think if you’re really confused, in yourself, how can you get it together? 问：我认为如果你内心真的很混乱的话， 你怎么可能看清大局？
33:43 K: Yes. So, you’re saying, you are saying, sir, aren’t you, ‘I am confused, therefore, I cannot possible see the totality.’ 克：是的，所以你是说，你说的是——先生，是吗—— “我内心很混乱，因此我是无法看整体的。”
33:51 Q: Not unless I have the stillness to actually see it. 问：除非我很安静，能够真正看到它。
33:58 K: Yes, that’s right. Same thing, sir. You say, to observe something, my mind must be quiet. Right? So your mind is not quiet, therefore, you’re not observing. So, you’re saying one of the factors is, to see something as a whole, my mind must be quiet. Then the question arises, how do you make the mind quiet? By repeating words? By controlling the thoughts? Then arises, who is the controller? So on, sirs. You understand? You go round and round in circles. 克：是的，没错。一回事，先生。 你说，要去观察某物，我的心必须是安静的，对吗？ 因此你的心不安静，所以无法观察。 所以，你说的因素之一就是， 要整体地看到什么，心就必须安静。 那么问题来了，你要如何让心安静？ 通过重复一些词语吗？通过控制思想吗？ 接下来的问题就是：谁是控制者？ 等等，先生们。你明白吗？ 你不断地在兜圈子。
34:56 Q: Instead of willing to change and willing to observe the whole we are being lazy and waiting to receive the technique, as a present. 问：我们不愿意改变，不愿意观察整体， 我们都很懒惰，等着得到技巧，就像等着得到礼物一样。
35:05 K: We are being lazy instead of changing, doing something about it, we are, really, very lazy people. Is that it? 克：我们都很懒惰，而不是去改变，去对它做点什么， 我们真的非常懒惰，是这样吗？
35:15 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
35:19 K: May I put a question differently? Please, don’t answer me because it just… Are you aware, if I may ask that question, most politely, without any disrespect, are you aware that you’re conditioned? Are you? Totally conditioned, not partially conditioned. Your words condition you – right? – education conditions you, culture conditions you, the environment conditions you, propaganda of two thousand years or five thousand years of priests have conditioned you. So, you’re conditioned, right through. When you say, ‘I believe in God,’ that’s part of your conditioning – like the man who says, ‘I don’t believe in God.’ 克：我可以换个方式提个问题吗？ 拜托，不用来回答我，因为它只是 你有没有觉知——如果我可以很礼貌地问这个问题的话， 没有任何的不敬—— 你有没有觉知到你深受局限？ 有吗？ 整体都深受局限，而不是部分地受局限。 你的言语约束着你——对吗？—— 教育制约你，文化约束着你， 环境影响着你，两千多年的传道， 或者五千多年的牧师们限制了你。 因此，你深受局限，一直都是。 当你说，“我相信上帝”，这就是你所受局限的一部分， 就像一个说“我不相信上帝”的人一样。
36:29 So, do we realise that this is a fact? A total conditioning. Then, when you realise it, what takes place? Do you then say, ‘I must uncondition it’? You follow? Then, who is the ‘I’ – and that ‘I’ is part of your conditioning. So, what do you do? Please, stick to one simple thing, here. 因此，我们有没有认识到这是个事实？ 一种整体的局限。 那么在你认识到这点之后，会怎么样？ 你会不会说，“我必须摆脱它”呢？ 你跟上了吗？那么，谁又是这个“我”？ ——这个“我”就是你所受局限的一部分。 因此，你会怎么做？ 恳请你，紧扣这件简单的事情。
37:12 I realise I’m conditioned: conditioned as being a Hindu, broke away from it and become something else, and join Christianity, or whatever it is, I’m conditioned – conditioned by culture, conditioned by the food I eat, conditioned by the climate, heredity, by my activity, by environment – my whole being is shaped, conditioned, moulded. Do I realise it? That means, do I see the actual fact of it, not the idea of it, but the actual reality of it? That is, it is so. It is raining. It’s a lovely day. It’s a fact. It’s a windy day. In the same way, do I see the absolute reality that my mind is conditioned? Then, when I realise it, when there is the realisation, totally, that I am conditioned, then what movement takes place? That’s what I want to find out. You understand my question, now? 我认识到自己深受局限：局限为一个印度教徒， 然后从中脱离出来，又变成别的什么人， 加入基督教，无论加入什么， 我都深受局限——受制于文化， 受制于我吃的食物，受制于气候、 遗传性，受制于我的活动，受制于环境 ——我的整个存在都被塑造了、被约束了、被定了型。 我有没有意识到这点呢？ 这意味着，我是不是看到了这个事实， 不是对它持有的观念，而是它实际的现实？ 也就是说，它就是如此。天开始下雨了。 这是美好的一天，这是个事实，今天有风。 同样地，我有没有看到这个绝对的事实： 我的心灵是深受制约的？ 那么，当我意识到这点时， 当我内心完全认识到我是深受局限的， 那会有什么运动发生呢？ 这就是我想发现的，现在你明白我的问题了吗？
38:52 Then, do I say, ‘Yes, I am conditioned, it is terrible, and I must uncondition myself’? Then you begin the conflict. Right? The ‘I’ then becomes part… the ‘I’ thinks it’s separate but it’s part of that conditioning. So, what takes place when you see that? 那时我还会不会说，“是的，我深受局限，这很糟糕， 我必须让自己从中摆脱出来”？ 那样的话你内心的冲突就会开始。对吗？ 那时“我”就变成了一部分 这个“我”认为它是独立的，但其实它就是局限的一部分。 因此，当你看到这点时会发生什么？
39:20 Q: No movement.

K: No movement. That means what? Go slowly, please. Don’t throw words at each other. What takes place when I realise that I am entirely conditioned? Action ceases, doesn’t it? I go to the office, but the action to change my conditioning is not there. 		问：没有任何行动。

克：没有任何行动，这意味着什么？ 请慢一点。别只是向对方扔出一些话语。 当我认识到自己完全深受局限时，会发生什么？ 行动停止了，不是吗？ 我去上班，但是要改变我局限的行动没有了。
39:59 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
40:14 K: So, I’m saying, sir. Please. Look, I have to go to the office, or to the factory, or become a clerk or secretary. I’ve got to work. I work in the garden, or teacher or do something. That is so. But I realise that I am conditioned. My concern is what happens when I realise, totally, this state? I cease to act in that state, don’t I? There’s no action. I’m a total prisoner. I don’t rebel against it, because if I rebel I’m rebelling against my own conditioning – right? – which has been put together by thought, which is ‘me.’ I wonder if you see all this. So, in that area of conditioning, there is no action. 克：因此，我在说话，先生，拜托。 瞧，我必须去办公室，或者去工厂， 或者当个普通职员或者秘书。我得工作。 或者我在花园工作，要么当老师，又或者做别的事，就是这样的。 然而我意识到我深受局限。 我关心的是在我全然地意识到这个状况后，会发生什么？ 在这种状况下我会停止行动，不是吗？没有任何的行动。 我完全是个囚犯。 我不会对抗它，因为如果我反抗， 我在对抗的其实就是自身的局限，对吗？ 这局限由思想拼凑而成，也就是“我”。 我不知道这些你是不是都明白了。 因此，在那种局限中，我不会有任何行动。
41:26 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
41:27 K: Just listen. There is no action, therefore, what takes place? 克：请听我说。没有行动，那会怎样？
41:32 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
41:43 K: Sir, do it, do it. Find out what takes place. 克：先生，去这么做，去做。去弄清会发生什么。
41:48 Q: You become free inside. 问：你内心会变得自由。
42:11 Q: You get very tired and sad and hopeless. 问：你会觉得很累，很伤心，很无望。
42:17 K: Yes, sir, you’re tired of the whole thing. So, what do you do when you’re tired of the – wait, take it up – when you’re tired of the whole thing, what do you do? 克：是的，先生，你会厌倦这整件事。 因此，当你对此心生厌倦时，你会做什么？——等下，接下去说—— 当你厌倦了这整件事，你会怎么做？
42:30 Q: One gives up. 问：我就会放弃。
42:32 K: Take a rest from it, don’t you? When you’re tired of something, when you’re tired you go and lie down, sit quietly. But you’re not doing it. 克：你会休息一下，对吗？ 当你厌烦某事时，当你很累时， 你就会去躺下，安静地坐会儿。但不会去对它做些什么。
42:53 So, then only when the mind is quiet, you see the totality of your life. Right? But our minds are chattering, trying to find an answer, beating, beating, beating, beating on this conditioning and, therefore, there is no answer. But if you say, ‘All right, I’ll look at it. I have seen the whole movement of thought, which is my life, and whatever movement other than the conditioning is unreal.’ You understand what I’m saying? So, the mind remains with the totality of its conditioning, it remains, it doesn’t move. Do we communicate something with each other, to each other? 因此，只有当心安静时，你才能看到自己生活的全部。 对吗？ 但我们的心总是喋喋不休，总想找出答案， 跟这局限一直不停地较劲， 因此无法得到任何答案。 但是如果你说，“好吧，我要看看它。 我看到了思想的整个运动，也就是我的生活， 而除了局限之外，任何运动都是虚妄不实的。” 你明白我说的意思吗？ 因此，心就和它的全部局限共处， 它保持不动，没有任何活动。 我们是不是在与彼此相互交流？
44:13 So, then I will go back and see, thought is a fragment, therefore, it’s limited. It’s fragmentary because it is based on knowledge, experience and memory, which is the movement of time. Right? So, thought, whatever is caught in the movement of time, is limited. That’s obvious. Whatever it is, whether it’s a machine, anything that’s caught in the movement of time, is bound to be limited. So, thought is fragmentary and limited. And we think, through thought, we’ll see the totality. That is our difficulty. We don’t say, ‘Thought cannot see the totality,’ therefore, thought becomes quiet. If I can’t see through my eyes – you follow? – I become quiet. So, thought becomes quiet. Then, I perceive the movement of what, actually, is going on, the totality of it. As we said the other day, when you look at a map you see the totality of the whole map – right? – various countries, the colours, the hills, see the totality. But if you have a direction, you don’t see the totality. That is, if you want to go from here to Vienna you have the line, you see that, and you disregard the rest. But, here, as long as you have a direction, a motive, a purpose, then you cannot see the totality. Are we meeting each other, now? 因此，接着我回过头去看到，思想是四分五裂的， 所以思想是局限的。 它四分五裂是因为它是基于知识、经验和记忆之上的， 这些就是时间的运动。对吗？ 因此思想——陷在时间活动中的任何东西——都是局限的。 这显而易见。 无论它是什么，是否是台机器， 陷于时间运动中的一切，都必定是局限的。 因此，思想是四分五裂、深受局限的。 而我们却认为，经由思想，我们会看到整体。 这就是我们的困难。 我们从不说，“思想无法看到整体”， 那样思想才会变得安静。 如果我的双眼无法看东西——你明白吗？——我就会安静下来。 因此，思想就会安静下来。 于是，我就能洞察实际在发生的事的运动， 它的整体。 就像我们前几天说的，当你看一张地图时， 你就能看到整张地图的全貌——对吗？—— 各个国家、颜色、山脉，一览无余。 但是如果你有一个方向，你就看不到全貌。 也就是，如果你想从这儿去到维也纳， 你有线路，你看着这条线路，而忽略掉了其他。 但是，在此处，只要你有一个方向、一种动机、一个目的， 那么你就无法看到全貌。 我们现在有没有互相领会了呢？
46:34 So, have you a motive for coming here, for enquiry, for trying to understand yourself, have you got a motive? That is, I want to understand myself because I’m terribly worried about my husband, and I hope by coming here I’m going to solve it. Or I have lost my wife, or my father, or my son, but I’m going to find out whether I can meet him in some other place, or what it means to suffer, so I have a motive. So, as long as I have a motive, I cannot listen, properly. You understand? As long as I have a prejudice, I can’t listen to what you’re saying. Or I have read all the books that you have written and I can repeat all of it, and I repeat and, obviously, that prevents from listening. 所以，你来到这里有一个动机吗？是为了询问， 还是想要了解自己，你有一个动机吗？ 也就是，我想了解我自己， 因为我对我丈夫很不放心， 我希望来到这儿能解决这个问题。 或者我失去了妻子，或者父亲，或者儿子， 但是我想搞清楚是不是可以在别的地方见到他， 或者弄清“痛苦”是什么意思，因此我有一个动机。 而只要我持有动机，我就无法正确地倾听。 你明白吗？ 只要我心有偏见，我就无法倾听你说的话。 或者我读了你所有的著作， 我能复述你所有的话，于是我就鹦鹉学舌， 很显然，这些都阻碍了倾听。
47:51 So, one cannot see the totality of one’s life because we have never thought about it, we have never given even a single second to look at this totality because we’re caught in our little fragments. Right? Now, we are together trying to explore, look at this whole unfortunate, confused, miserable, occasional happiness, all of that, we are trying to see, wholly. It is possible to see it wholly, only when you have no direction, no motive, which is extremely difficult because we want to be happy, we want to be rich, we want to have a good relationship with another, we want to have our pleasures fulfilled. You follow? 因此，我们无法看到自己生活的全貌 是因为我们从没有思考过它， 我们甚至从未投入过一秒钟去看看它的全貌， 因为我们都深陷于自己鸡毛蒜皮的琐碎中，对吗？ 现在，我们在一起探究、 去看这个整体——不幸、混乱、痛苦 以及偶尔的快乐，这一切，我们想要整体性地去看。 要整体性地看，只有当你没有方向、没有动机时才可能， 而这极其困难， 因为我们都想要快乐，想要富有， 想和别人搞好关系， 我们想让自己快乐。你跟上了吗？
49:03 So, what happens then, that’s the next, from the same question, what happens, then, when you realise, when you see, actually, the total existence, as you see it in a map, clearly outlined, everything clear, everything in its place, orderly? You understand? The word ‘art’ means putting everything in its right place. That is the real meaning of the word ‘art.’ So, having put everything in its right place, then, what takes place? Putting my office in the right place, my relationship in the right place – you follow? – everything in order. 然后会怎样，这是接下来的问题——出自同一个问题， 接着会发生什么？——当你认识到， 当你真实地看到了整个的存在， 就像你从画得很清晰的地图上去看时， 一切一目了然，一切都有序地各得其所。 你明白吗？ “艺术”这个词的意思就是将一切置于其恰当的位置。 这是“艺术”这个词的真正含义。 因此，在把一切都置于其恰当的位置后， 接下来会怎么样？ 把我的办公室放在合适的位置，把我的人际关系放在恰当的位置， ——你跟上了吗？——一切都井然有序，
50:08 What happens, then? 接着会怎么样？
50:11 Q: One lives intelligently. 问：我们就会很智慧地活着。
50:18 K: Do you? Do we? 克：你是吗？我们是吗？
50:26 Q: You don’t have to think about what you’re going to do about it, anymore. 问：我们不必再去思考我们接下来要怎么处理它了。
50:29 K: No. You see, you’re ready to answer, you haven’t got the other thing, you’re ready to answer. Have we put our house in order? Not the house, you know, the deeper house, have we put everything in order? We are in disorder – aren’t we? – unfortunately. We are in disorder. Now, just keep to that disorder, let’s understand that disorder. Because out of the investigation of that disorder, order comes – right, sir? – not try to bring order. I wonder if you… Through negation, comes order. 克：不，你看，你准备好了回答问题， 你还没有得到另外的那样东西，你就准备好了回答问题。 你把屋子收拾得井然有序了吗？ 不是房子——你知道——是更为深层的“房子”， 我们有没有把一切都放置得井然有序呢？ 我们处在混乱之中——不是吗？——很不幸。 我们处在混乱之中。 现在，就待在混乱里，让我们来了解这份混乱。 因为从这份对混乱的探查之中， 秩序就会到来——对吗，先生？——而不是想方设法带来秩序。 我不知道你是不是……经由否定，秩序自会到来。
51:30 Look, politically, if there is disorder in the country, out of that very disorder, tyranny grows. Right? That’s happening in India, that’s happening all over the world. Where there is disorder, that very disorder creates the authority. Now, we are in disorder. Why? Would you tell me why you’re in disorder – not invent, just see why this disorder exists in me – why does it exist? Because I’ve contradictory desires – right? – I want peace and I’m violent. I want to love people and I’m full of antagonism. I want to be free and I’m attached to my wife, to my children, to my property, to my belief. Right? So, there is contradiction in me, and that contradiction means confusion. Right? I am attached to my wife, to my husband, to my children. I’m attached because I am lonely, I am desperate, I can’t live with myself, I feel frustrated, miserable, in myself, so, I cling to you. But deep down, that fear of loneliness goes on. Right? So there’s contradiction in me. So, can there be freedom from attachment, which is not love? So, can there be freedom from attachment, not little, by little, by little – freedom? 瞧，在政治上，如果这个国家存在混乱， 那么正是出于这份混乱，暴政才能得势，对吗？ 这就是在印度发生的事，也是世界各地都在上演的事。 有混乱的地方，这份混乱就会制造权威。 而我们正处在混乱之中，为什么？ 你可不可以告诉我为什么你会处在混乱之中 ——不是虚构，而是看到为什么我内心会存在这种混乱—— 为什么混乱会存在？ 因为我有着各种互相矛盾的欲望——对吗？—— 我想要和平，但自己却很暴力。 我想爱他人但内心却满是敌意。 我想要自由，同时却依恋着我的妻子，我的孩子， 我的财产，我的信仰。对吗？ 因此，我内心存在着矛盾， 而这份矛盾就意味着混乱，对吗？ 我依恋我的妻子、我的丈夫、我的孩子。 我之所以依恋是因为我很孤单、我很绝望， 我无法和自己共处，我内心深处感到沮丧、痛苦， 因此，我就依附于你。 但是内心深处，那份对孤独的恐惧依然如故。 对吗？因此，我内心存在着矛盾。 因此，存不存在摆脱了依附的自由，因为依附并不是爱？ 因此，存不存在摆脱了依附的自由 ——而不是逐步地、渐渐地自由？
54:11 Q: Yes, there can. 问：是的，存在。
54:14 K: You can? I’m not asking you personally, sir. Of course, it can be. But is it so, are you free? Then, what’s the point of discussing? Then it becomes a verbal discussion – what’s the point of that? We are here – serious people, I hope – trying to understand and bring about a transformation in our daily life, transformation in our mind, in our consciousness. And if there is one thing which I completely see – for example, attachment, what is involved in it, jealousy, fear, pleasure, companionship, clinging to each other, possessiveness and, therefore, losing, all that is implied in attachment, which is one of the causes of my confusion. So, can I cut it, instantly be free of it? 克：你有吗？我不是针对你个人来问的，先生。 当然，是存在的。但是事实是不是如此，你自由吗？ 那么，讨论的意义又何在？ 那就成了种口头上的讨论——它的意义何在？ 我们在这里——我希望是一群认真的人——试着去了解 并给我们的日常生活带来一种转变， 给我们的心灵、我们的意识带来一场转变。 并且如果有一件事情我能彻底看清 ——举个例子，依附——其中包含了些什么， 嫉妒、恐惧、快乐、友情、互相依赖、 占有以及由此而来的失去， 这一切都包含于依附之中， 这也就是我混乱的肇因之一。 因此，我能不能剪断它，即刻摆脱它呢？
55:35 Q: We want to be free of attachment… 问：我们想要摆脱依附
55:40 K: No. Sir, attachment – attachment to things you like, attachments to things you don’t like, all of it, sir. Don’t break it up too much. 克：不。先生，依附——依附你喜欢的东西， 依附你不喜欢的东西，都是依附，先生。 不要将它分得太细。
55:51 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
56:00 K: Attachments to your faith, attachment to your belief, attachment to your gods, attachment to your church – attachment, sir. You understand, you don’t have to explain it more. That’s one of the causes of confusion, one of the causes of disorder. And to bring order by investigating disorder, I find it is attachment – one of the factors. So, cut it! Because we are afraid to cut it, because what will my wife say when I tell her I’m not attached? Because we translate, when there is freedom from attachment, the wife or the husband understands – or the girl or the boy – that you are free from her, or from him, and therefore she clings to you and so you’re frightened to hurt her, and all the rest of it follows. Let me finish, sir. Freedom from attachment means tremendous responsibility. You don’t see that. Right? 克：依附你的信念，依附你的信仰， 依附你的神明，依附你的教堂 ——先生，这些都是依附。 你了解的，你不必对它作更多的解释。 这就是混乱的肇因之一，也是失序的起因之一。 而要带来秩序，我经由观察失序 而发现了依附就是造成失序的因素之一， 因此，切断它！ 因为我们都害怕切断它， 因为要是我对妻子说我不再依恋她，她会怎么说？ 因为我们会去诠释——如果我们脱离了依附的话， 妻子或者丈夫——女友或者男友——知道 你脱离了她，或者脱离了他， 并因此抓住你不放，于是你害怕会伤害她， 等等这一切就会尾随而至。 请让我说完，先生。 脱离依附意味着无比巨大的责任心， 你没有看到这点，对吗？
57:37 Look, we have built this place, Brockwood, for the last seven years. We have worked at it, several of us. Plenty of energy, work, thought – you follow? – create this thing. If we are attached to that thing, then we are creating confusion. You understand? So, the speaker is not attached, completely – I can leave tomorrow. And I mean it, I have done it – not to Brockwood but other places. But being detached means great consideration, great responsibility to see this operates, properly. You understand? Not that I walk away from it. 瞧，我们在过去的七年中建设了这块地方——布洛克伍德， 我们几个人一直在为此工作， 投入了大量的精力、工作以及思考——你明白吗？——创立了它。 如果我们依附于这件事，那么我们就是在制造混乱。 你明白吗？ 因此，讲话者内心没有依附，丝毫没有，我明天就可以离开。 我是认真的，一直以来都是如此，不仅对布洛克伍德，对其他地方也一样。 但是脱离意味着考虑周密， 意味着有着巨大的责任心确保它正确地运转。 你明白吗？不是我拍拍屁股走人就完事了。
58:36 So, when there is freedom from attachment, there is love. You understand? No, you don’t. That means responsibility, so that means order. So, can you – realising one of the factors of confusion in our life, of our disorder and misery, is this attachment to ideas, to beliefs, to ideals, to one’s country and so on, to wife, all that – can one be free of that attachment? Not tomorrow, now. Because that is, you see the reality of it, what it does in life. I’m attached to my country and, therefore, I’m willing to kill every other human being for my love of my country. 因此，当存在脱离了依附的自由时，爱就来了。 你明白吗？不，你不明白。 这意味着责任心，因此也就意味着秩序。 因此，你能不能 ——认识到我们生活中混乱的因素之一， 我们失序和痛苦的因素之一， 就是这种依附——依附于观念、 信仰、理想、自己的国家等等，依附于妻子，等等， 我们能不能脱离这些依附？不是明天，而是此刻。 因为这意味着，你看到了它的真相，看到了它在生活之中的所为。 我依附于我的国家， 所以我甘愿去杀戮他人 ——出于爱国的原因。
59:56 Q: Do you mean to say you must be responsible for your country but you mustn't be attached. Is that the point you’re making? 问：你是说我们必须对自己的国家负责任， 但我们不能依附于它。这是不是就是你说的意思？
1:00:04 K: No, that’s not the point I’m making. The point we are making is, sir – not the country, leave the country. You see, how quickly we go off to something. I’m talking about attachment to your wife, to your husband, to a belief, to a faith, to an ideal, for which you are willing to kill people. So, there is disorder. Out of this disorder, there arises confusion and, therefore, in you there is confusion. And one of the factors is attachment. Can you break it, get away from it? 克：不，这不是我说的意思。 先生，我们说的——不是国家，先不说国家了。 你看，我们多么快就跳到了别的事上。 我在谈的是依附——依附你的妻子、你的丈夫、 某种信仰、某个信念、某个理想， 为了这些你甘愿杀害他人， 因此，存在着失序。 由这份失序，就会引起混乱， 所以你内心会有混乱， 因素之一就是依附。你能不能打破它，脱离它？
1:00:55 Q: Sir, I think part of the problem comes in when you say, ‘Can you break it,’ that means, you know, we… 问：先生，我认为有个问题来了， 当你问：“你能不能打破它”，这意味着，你知道，我们
1:01:06 K: I understand. Of course, sir. That’s a quick way of expressing, after saying, ‘The observer is the observed.’ We’ve been through all that. Can there be an end to attachment? Let’s put it that way, if you prefer it. 克：我了解。当然，先生，这是种快速的表达方式 ——在我们讨论过了“观察者就是所观之物”之后。 我们已经讨论过那些了。 那么到底能不能终结依附呢？ 让我们用这种方式来提问——如果你更喜欢这样的话。
1:01:24 Q: Mr Speaker, I figure every one of us, I think, would consider ourselves individuals… 问：尊敬的讲话者，我感觉我们每个人——我认为—— 都认为自己是个体
1:01:30 K: I question whether they are individuals. 克：我质疑他们是不是个体。
1:01:33 Q: Yes.

K: No, don’t say, ‘Yes.’ 		问：是的。

克：不，不要说，“是的。”
1:01:37 Q: I’m saying, I would like to think I’m an individual. 问：我是说，我愿意把自己看成一个个体。
1:01:39 K: You like to think. 克：你愿意这样去认为。
1:01:41 Q: That I’m not collective.

K: Look, sir, please! The word ‘individual’ means indivisible, non-fragmented. That is, a human being who is fragmented is not an individual. But ‘individual’ means one who is indivisible in himself. Please, sir, that’s what it is. 		问：认为自己不是集体化的。

克：瞧，先生，拜托了！ “个体”这个词意味着无分裂、非碎片式的。 也就是，一个分裂的人并不是个体。 而“个体”意味着一个人的内心是不分裂的。 恳请你，先生，这就是它的意思。
1:02:15 Now, just take this, attachment. When you see the whole movement of attachment: jealousy, anxiety, hatred, division, possessiveness, domination – you follow? – all that is implied in that word ‘attachment’ – to see the whole of it is intelligence, isn’t it? To see the whole of it. So, intelligence says, ‘Be free of it,’ not you say, ‘I must be free of it.’ So, intelligence then dictates, tells what is right action, wherever you are. You understand? Whatever your life is, whether in the office or at home, or anywhere, if there is this intelligence at work, then there is no problem, because this intelligence is supreme order, which has come because you have looked into disorder in our life. Out of that investigation into disorder, which is one of the factors is attachment, in the observation of that disorder, the awakening of intelligence comes. You follow? Intelligence is awakened. And intelligence is not yours or mine, it’s the intelligence. Therefore, it’s not my individual intelligence telling me what to do – then it’s not intelligence. But when we have seen our disorder in our daily life, how it comes, observing it, investigating it quite impartially, objectively, without any motive, out of that investigation is the awakening of this marvellous intelligence, which is also love. You understand? 现在，就拿这点来讨论——依附。 当你看到了依附的整个运动： 嫉妒、焦虑、憎恨、分裂、占有、控制， ——你明白吗？——这一切都包含在了“依附”这个词中， 看到它的整体就是智慧，不是吗？ 看到它的整体。 因此，是智慧在说，“脱离它”， 而不是你说，“我必须脱离它。” 接着智慧就会指示和告知什么是正确的行动 ——无论你身处何方。你明白吗？ 无论你的生活是何现状，不论是在办公室还是在家，无论哪里， 如果有这种智慧在运作，那么就不会出任何问题， 因为这种智慧就是无上的秩序， 它之所以会降临是因为你探究了我们生活中的失序。 由这份对失序的探察 ——造成失序的因素之一就是依附， 在这份对失序的观察之中，智慧就降临了。 你跟上了吗？智慧被唤醒了。 而智慧并不是你的或者我的，它就是智慧。 因此，并不是我个人的智慧在告诉我要怎么做， 那样就不是智慧了。 但是当我们看到了日常生活中的失序时 它是怎么来的，观察它，探究它 ——相当公正地、客观地，不带有一丝动机， 由这份探察而来的 就是这无与伦比的智慧的觉醒， 也就是爱。你明白吗？
1:04:44 Q: Sir, this will take time because... 问：先生，这要花时间，因为
1:04:49 K: Does it take time? 克：这需要花时间吗？
1:04:54 Q: It doesn’t take time, as time is the produce of thought. 问：这不需要花时间，因为时间就是思想的产物。
1:05:05 K: Does it take time to cultivate love? Do you cultivate love? Say, ‘I must be kind, I must be generous, I must be thoughtful, I must be considerate, I must give’ – and do all those things, you know, day after day, day after day, at the end of it, you’ll have this marvellous flower called ‘love’? 克：是不是需要花时间来培养爱呢？ 你有没有培养爱呢？ 说：“我必须很善良，必须很慷慨， 我必须体贴，我必须善解人意， 我必须给予”——然后去做所有那些事， 你知道，日复一日，日复一日， 到了最后，你就会拥有这朵美妙绝伦的被称为“爱”的花。
1:05:39 Q: But how can one realise everything in one day? 问：但是我们如何在一天之内领悟到一切呢？
1:05:45 K: That’s just it, sir. It is not in one day – now. 克：正是如此，先生。并不是在一天之内，而是就在此刻。
1:05:51 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
1:05:54 K: Sir, when you say it is difficult, you have already made it difficult. It may be the most easiest thing in the world, you don’t know, but you have already come to it saying, ‘It is difficult, it’s arduous, I need tremendous energy,’ but you don’t say, ‘I really don’t know,’ then you are free to look. You understand? But you’ve already come to it with a conclusion. And the conclusion is the bondage, is the barrier which prevents you from actually seeing, instantly. 克：先生，当你说这很难时，你就已经把它变难了。 这也许是世界上最容易的事，只是你不知道而已， 但是你却下了定论：“这很难， 这很艰巨，我需要巨大的能量，” 但你却不坦言：“我真的不知道，” 而只有这样你才能自由地看，你明白吗？ 但是你却对此已经下了定论。 而结论就是束缚，就是藩篱， 它会阻碍你即刻真正地看清。
1:06:40 Q: Is intelligence free of thought when there is no emotion? 问：当没有情绪起伏时，智慧是否就脱离了思想的束缚？
1:06:49 Q: Sir, is this supreme intelligence, in other words, insight? 问：先生，这是否就是无上的智慧，换言之，就是洞察？
1:07:41 Q: Is supreme intelligence perception? 问：无上的智慧是不是就是觉察？
1:07:45 K: Is that the question, sir? If you like to put it. What does it matter, if you have got it? Words don’t matter. You see, you people don’t work at this. 克：这就是你的问题吗，先生？ 如果你想这么表述的话。 如果你已领会了它，怎么说又有什么关系？言语不重要。 你看，你们这些人并没有在这上面花心思。
1:08:06 Q: Could we return to what you were saying about bondage? 问：我们能不能回过头去探究一下你刚说到的“束缚”？
1:08:11 K: Yes, sir. Look, I want to go on. You don’t know what the beauty of all this is. All right, sir. It’s up to you. 克：好的，先生。瞧，我想继续往下讲。 你不知道这一切有多么的美。 好的，先生。你说了算，
1:08:24 Let’s begin, again. Thought has created this disorder, hasn’t it? – my house, my property, my wife, my country, my God, my belief, my sorrow, my pleasure – thought. Thought has also created the centre, which holds all these activities, the ‘me.’ Thought has created the ‘me’ in which all these activities go on. Right? Thought has created this. And thought has created the problems, and thought says, ‘I will solve these problems.’ And thought has never done it. Right? Politicians right throughout the world say, ‘We will solve all these problems with very careful thinking’ party politics, TUC, the whole game. And they won’t solve it because the problems are getting worse and worse. So, thought has created all these problems. Thought is ‘me,’ thought is my problem. Thought is the disorder in which I live. Right. 就让我们再次开始吧。 是思想制造了失序，不是吗? ——我的房子、我的财产、我的妻子、我的国家、我的上帝、 我的信仰、我的悲伤、我的快乐——思想。 思想也制造了这个中心， 它控制着所有这些活动——这个“我”。 思想制造了这个“我”，所有的活动都在这个“我”之下进行着。 对吗？ 是思想制造了“我”。 思想制造了很多的问题， 而它却放话：“我会解决这些问题的，” 但它从来没有做到过。对吗？ 全世界的政客们都信誓旦旦： “我们会深思熟虑，会解决这些问题的” ——党派政治，英国劳工联合会议，这整个的把戏。 但他们是解决不了的，因为问题正变得越来越糟糕。 因此，是思想制造了这一切的问题。 思想就是“我”，思想就是我的问题所在。 思想就是我身处其中的失序，对吧。
1:09:54 So, I see thought cannot solve the problem. Right? Do you see that, sir? Thought cannot solve my problem between me and my wife. Right? Right, sir? The problem between me and my wife is that I think I’m separate from her, I have an image about her – right? – that image has been put together through thought for ten years, or two days, or fifty years. Right? And she has an image about me. Right? I dominate her, I bully her, or I do this and that – all that, sexual pleasure, antagonism, all those are images between her and me. Right? Right? So, these images create disorder. Right? So, I can never see my wife or my girl or my boy completely, wholly, what he is. You understand? Right? So, can there be freedom from image-making? You understand? I see I have an image about my wife, about the politicians, about my neighbour, about my children, whatever it is, I have an image about them, or about her. The image has been put together when she says to me, ‘You’re an ass,’ or she bullies me, or she wants something from me, etc. All that. All those activities create an image in me about her. Right? This is simple. I want to get on with it. And she has an image about me. So, our relationship is between these two images. Correct? Which is what? The images of thought. Thought has built them. 因此，我发现思想无法解决问题。 对吗？你看到了吗，先生？ 思想无法解决我和妻子之间存在的问题。 对吗？对吗，先生？ 横亘在我和妻子之间的问题 就是我认为自己和她是分离的，我对她持有一个意象，对吗？ 这个意象是十年来通过思想拼凑而来的， 或者两天，又或者五十年，对吗？ 而她对我也持有一个意象，对吗？ 我支配她，欺压她，或者对她这样那样 ——一切，性快感、对抗， 这些都是横亘在我和她之间的意象，对吗？对吗？ 因此，是这些意象制造了失序，对吗？ 因此，我从来没有很完整地去看我的妻子、女友或者男友， 完整地去看他真实的样子。你明白吗？对吗？ 那么，能不能摆脱意象的制造机制呢？ 你明白吗？ 我看到我持有一个意象——对妻子、对政客们、 对我的邻居、对我的孩子，无论对什么， 我对他们或者她持有一个意象。 这个意象被拼凑了起来——当她对我说：你是头蠢驴， 或者当她欺负我，或者当她想从我这儿得到些什么时，等等。 这一切的活动都在我内心制造了一个有关她的意象，对吗？ 这很容易理解。我想跟这个意象打交道。 而她也持有一个关于我的意象。 因此，我们之间的关系就是两个意象之间的关系。 对吗？ 这都是些什么呢？就是思想所造的各种意象。 是思想构造了它们。
1:12:21 So, thought has built these images and thought, which is fragmentary, which is destructive because it is fragmentary, tries to solve this problem. It can only solve it when there is no image-making, then I can look at my wife, and she can look at me, as we are. Right? You understand? So, is it possible not to create an image when she calls me something or other, when she nags me, when she says, ‘Do this,’ out of irritation. You follow, all this. You know it very well, you’re all married people, so I don’t have to tell you all this. You may not be married – you have your girl or – it doesn’t matter, sir. Don’t bother. 因此，是思想构造了这些意象，而思想是支离破碎的， 具有破坏性的，因为它是四分五裂的， 却试图解决这个问题。 而只有当思想不再制造意象时，才有可能解决这个问题， 然后我才能去看我的妻子，她也才能去看我——如实地看。 对吗？你明白了吗？ 因此，有没有可能不去制造意象—— 当她把我说成什么的时候，当她唠叨我的时候， 当她由于生气所以说“去这么做”的时候。 这些你都明白了吗，你们都很清楚这些，因为你们都是些已婚之人， 因此，这些就不必由我来说给你听了。 你也许未婚，你有女朋友或者 没关系，先生，这个无所谓。
1:13:19 And I’m asking you, can you be free of the image you have about her? Because if you want right relationship, there must be no image between you and her, or her about you, obviously. So, how to end the image-making? You understand my question? The image-making is mechanical. Please listen to this, carefully. It is mechanical because when the wife says to me something ugly, it is registered. Or when she says something, or say, ‘You’re a marvellous man,’ it’s registered. Right? You understand? The registration is the image-making. Right? When you tell me a flattering thing, or insult, it is registered in the brain through hearing and all the nervous system, and it’s registered in the brain. And so, the brain through thought, creates an image. Now, is it possible – please, listen carefully, if you are interested – is it possible not to register? You understand my question? When somebody tells you that you look most beautiful, or you’re a great person, not to register it. The moment you have registered, the image begins. 我是在问，你能不能摆脱你对她持有的意象？ 因为如果你想要正确的关系， 那么你和她之间就一定不能存在任何意象， 她也没有你的意象，这显然是必需的。 那么，要怎么终结意象的制造呢？你明白我的问题吗？ 意象的制造是机械化的。 请仔细听。 它之所以是机械的是因为当妻子对我说了些难听的话， 它就被记录了下来。 或者当她说别的时， 说：“你很出色”，这也被记录了下来。 对吗？你明白吗？ 这种记录就是意象的制造。 对吗？ 当你奉承我，或者侮辱我时， 这就被记录在了大脑里 ——经由听觉和所有的神经系统， 它就被记录在大脑之中。 因此，大脑经由思想制造了一个意象。 那么，有没有可能 ——恳请你们，仔细听，如果你真的有兴趣的话—— 有没有可能不记录呢？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 当有人对你说你无比美丽的时侯， 或者你很了不起时，不去记录它。 在你记录的那刻，意象就产生了。
1:15:21 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
1:15:23 K: Let me finish, sir, let me finish. And when she tells you, or when you tell her something or other insulting, it is registered. So, I’m asking, is it possible not to register the insult or the flattery? 克：请让我说完，先生，请让我说完。 当她对你说了些话，或者你对她说了些话， 或者一些侮辱人的话，这就被记录了下来。 因此，我在问， 有没有可能不记录这份侮辱或者赞美？
1:15:45 Q: Yes, by listening with attention. 问：可以，经由全身心地倾听。
1:15:49 K: You have heard me say that before, therefore, he’s repeating. Don’t repeat what I’ve said. Find out for yourself, sir. Personally, I don’t read all these things. Look, you can do this all for… The whole of history of mankind is in you. You understand? You are the repository of a thousand years or more, a million years of human endeavour. You are that. Everything is in you, if you know how to read it. So, please, read this thing. That is, can this image-making end? Find out. First, see how important it is that it should end, see the immense necessity, both socially, in every way, how important it is for human beings not to have an image – say he’s an Indian, he’s a Russian, he’s an American, he’s a beastly this or that. Not to have single image. Therefore, there is no minority or majority. I wonder if you see all this. 克：你听我以前这么说过，因此，他是在照搬这些话。 不要照搬我所说的，自己去发现，先生。 就我个人来说，我不读这些东西。 瞧，你可以做到这些，因为 人类的整个历史就藏在你身上，你明白吗？ 你就是人类一千多年或者更久的储藏室， 人类一百万年的艰辛奋斗，你就是它。 一切都在你的内心，如果你知道怎么读它的话， 因此，恳请你，读读这本书。 也就是，这种意象的制造过程能不能终结？ 去搞清楚。 首先，看到终结它有多么的重要， 看到这一点无比的必要性，从社会角度，从一切角度， 对人类来说不持有意象有多么重要， 不说：他是印度人、他是俄罗斯人、他是美国人， 他是可恶的这个或那个——不持有任何意象。 因此，也就不存在少数族群和多数人群的划分。 我不知道这些你是不是都明白了。
1:17:18 Q: (Inaudible) 问：（听不清）
1:17:24 K: Is that possible? Not to register. This is very important. Please listen, if you don’t mind. You have to register when you do technological things – right? – when you learn a language, it is tremendously important to register it, the words, the verbs, the irregular verbs and all the rest of it, you have to register it. It’s very important when you are learning something – how to drive a car and all the rest. And also, it’s very important to learn very quickly about something and retain it. But not to register when there is – in relationship between human beings. There, it is much more important than the other. The other is fairly simple. Here, it becomes tremendously important, because conflict between individuals comes to an end – between wife and husband, man-woman, between nationalities, between groups of people – you follow? – this continuous conflict between people. To end that, as you are the total repository of all human endeavour, if you can put away image-making, then you’re a total human being. You understand? So, is it possible for you to end the image-making? 克：这有可能吗？不去记录。 这非常重要，请听好，如果你不介意的话。 在你做技术性的事情时，你必须记录。 对吗？ 当你学一门语言时，记录是极其重要的， 生词、动词、不规则动词等等这一切， 你必须记录。 在你学习某件事时，这很重要 ——如何开车等等。 快速地学会某些事情， 并且牢记它，这也很重要。 但是不要让这种记录发生在 人与人之间的关系中， 这要比另外那个重要多了。 另外那个相当简单。 而在这里，这一点变得极其重要， 因为个体之间的冲突就会因此终结 ——妻子和丈夫之间、男人和女人之间、国与国之间、 群体和群体之间——你跟上了吗？—— 人与人之间持续不断的这种冲突。 要终结它，因为你就是人类所有辛劳的总储藏库， 如果你能抛开意象的制造，那么你就是个完整的人了。 你明白吗？ 因此，对你来说有没有可能终结意象的制造？
1:19:09 Q: I often register something which I don’t want to register. I don’t want to register something, very often. 问：我经常会记录一些我并不想记录的事。 我很多时候并不想记录。
1:19:21 K: Then don’t register it. 克：那就不要记录。
1:19:23 Q: But it happens so fast, I can’t stop it. 问：但是记录发生得如此之快，我无法阻止。
1:19:31 K: Just a minute. See what takes place. Registration is a mechanical process – right? – because our minds have become… our brains have become, at least part of it, mechanical. We live a mechanical life, don’t we? Repeat the same pleasure sexually, or repeat the same old tradition – if you are a Catholic, you go to church – you follow? – the same thing – repeat, repeat, repeat. Which is, we have made our life into a mechanical process because in that there’s great security. Right? Do you see that? Being mechanical gives a great certainty. 克：等一下。看看发生了什么。 记录是种机械的过程——对吗？—— 因为我们的心已经变得 我们的大脑至少有一部分了已经很机械了。 我们过着一种很机械的生活，不是吗？重复着同样的性快感， 或者重复着老一套的传统， 如果你是个基督徒，你就会去做礼拜——你明白吗？—— 同样的事，重复，重复，重复。 也就是，我们把生活变成了一种机械化的过程 因为其中有着巨大的安全感，对吗？ 你看到这些了吗？机械化给了我们一种巨大的安全感。
1:20:23 So, we’re asking, can this mechanical process – in certain areas, it’s completely important – but in human relationship it is totally dangerous, totally dangerous, absolutely dangerous, not relatively, absolutely dangerous. So, can you end the danger? Do you see the danger? If you see the danger, it’s over. When you see the danger of a precipice, you don’t go near it. When you see the danger of a wild animal, you avoid it. But we don’t see the danger. We don’t see the danger of nationalities because they breed war. The selling of armaments – look what is happening, for God’s sake, for your world, what we are making of it. 因此，我们问的是，这种机械化的过程能不能 ——在某些领域里，它是绝对重要的—— 但是在人类的关系之中，它就完全是危险的， 完全是危险的，绝对是危险的， 不是相对，而是绝对的危险。 那么，你能不能终结这种危险？你看到了它的危险吗？ 如果你看到了危险，那么它就结束了。 当你看到悬崖的危险，你就会不会靠近它。 当你看到野兽的危险，你就会避之不及。 但是我们看不到此种危险， 我们看不到国家林立的危险，因为林立的国家孕育了战争。 兜售武器，这都是正在发生的事，老天啊， 因为是我们把世界变成了这个样子。
1:21:38 Q: I think we do see the danger but we’re unattached from it. You say we can affect the whole consciousness of the world, that’s what you say... 问：我认为我们确实看到了危险，但是我们没能摆脱它。 你说我们能影响这个世界的整体意识， 这是你说的
1:21:50 K: Not what I say, sir. 克：不是我说了什么，先生。
1:21:52 Q: That is what you have said, on occasions, ‘You are the consciousness of the world.’ 问：那是你说过的，在一些场合说的， “你的意识就是全世界的意识。”
1:21:55 K: I’ve said it, but don’t you see that? 克：我说过，但是你却没看到这点？
1:21:59 Q: Yes, but you see, we’re just a very small part, we’re a very finite part. 问：看到了，但是你看，我们就只是一小部分， 是非常有限的一部分而已。
1:22:05 K: No. Sir, look. Oh, I don’t want to go into all this, it’s fairly simple, isn’t it? You’re an Englishman because you have been conditioned from childhood to think that you’re an Englishman, you’re a Catholic because you’ve been trained from childhood to think that you’re Catholic with all the beliefs, all the superstitions, the nonsense that goes on. And you’re a Hindu – same thing, conditioned. Every human being, right through the world, is conditioned. That’s the common factor, therefore, you are the world. 克：不，先生，瞧。 哦，我不想讲那么多了，这相当简单，不是吗？ 你是英国人，因为你从小就被制约着 去认为你是一个英国人， 你是个天主教徒，因为你从小就被教育着 去认为自己是一个天主教徒，抱着所有那些信仰、 迷信和那些乱七八糟的东西。 而你是个印度教徒，同样的，你也深受局限。 全世界每个人都深受局限。 这是共有的因素，因此你就是世界。
1:22:48 So, is it possible not to register? That means have a mind that is totally innocent. You understand? That can never be hurt nor ever be flattered. So, is it possible? To find that out, to see what it does in human relationship if you have an image about somebody. You have an image about me, haven’t you? Therefore, that’s what is preventing you from understanding the poor chap. 因此，有没有可能不去记录？ 这意味着拥有一颗全然纯真的心灵。 你明白吗？ 这样的心灵永远不会受伤也不会受人奉承。 那么，这有没有可能呢？ 去把它搞清楚，去看看意象在人类关系中所造成的影响 ——如果你对某个人持有一个意象的话。 你对我持有一个意象，对吗？ 因此，这阻碍了你了解我这个可怜的家伙。
1:23:47 So, we’re saying, is it possible? I say, ‘It is.’ Not because an idea. In my life, as a speaker, it is so. I wouldn’t talk about things if it isn’t an actuality, I wouldn’t be a hypocrite. I abominate all that kind of stuff. So, I say, ‘It is possible. It is so, it can be done.’ Then you will tell me, ‘Please, tell me how to do it.’ Wait, listen carefully. ‘Please, tell me how to do it.’ The moment you say ‘how,’ you want a system. That very system implies mechanical process. Right? So, you’re asking a person who denies mechanical process, asking him, ‘Tell me a mechanical process.’ You understand? So, we lose our communication. So I say, please, don’t ask how. See all the implications of that word ‘how’ – mechanical, method, system, practice, which you do, which you are doing when you talk about meditation, which is all nonsense, which we’ll go into. So, don’t ask ever ‘how,’ but look. You understand? Look at your image, become conscious of it, aware of it, see what it does. When you see what it does, are you looking at it from the outside, or you say, ‘That is me, I am that. I am the image. Image is not different from me.’ Right? Do you see that? So, the observer is the observed. And, then, what takes place? There is no movement to make further image. Do you see that? If you see that, the thing is over. 我们在说的是，这有没有可能？我说是可能的，并不是出于某种观念。 在我的生命里，作为一个讲者，这的确是可能的。 我不会去谈论不是事实的东西， 我不是个伪君子，我憎恶这类事。 因此，我说，“这是可能的。事实就是如此，这是可以做到的。” 接着你会对我说，“请你告诉我要如何做到。” 等一下，请仔细听好。“请你告诉我要如何做到”， 在你说“如何”的时候，你就是想要一个方法。 正是方法意味着机械化的过程，对吗？ 因此，你在问一个已经否定了机械化过程的人， 问他：“告诉我一个机械化的办法。”你明白吗？ 因此，我们之间就失去了交流。 因此，我说，请不要问“如何”。 要看到“如何”这个词背后的全部含义 ——机械化的方法、体系、练习，这些你在做的事， 这些是你在谈论冥想时所做的事， 这些都是无稽之谈，我们会去探究的。 因此，永远不要问“怎么”，而是去看。 你明白吗？去看你的意象， 认识到它，觉察它，看它的所作所为。 当你看它的所作所为时，你是从外部看它的， 还是你说：“它就是我，我就是它，我就是这个意象。 这个意象无异于我”，对吗？ 你看到这点了吗？ 因此，观察者就是所观之物。 接着会怎么样？ 就没有了更进一步去制造意象的活动了。 你看到这点了吗？ 如果你看到了，事情就结束了。
1:26:34 So, when we are confused, to seek the light out of confusion is to further the confusion. Right? I wonder if you see that. I’m confused, whatever I do, out of that confusion, will still be confused. Whatever my choice, will still be confused. So, first, is this possible to clear this confusion, in myself? It is possible when there is – I’m taking these two examples: attachment and image-making. When there is freedom from these two, there is clarity, absolute, complete clarity. Therefore, there is no choice. So, out of understanding what is disorder, comes order. But to seek order when I am confused, as the politicians and all the people are doing, will lead to further confusion. Right? I think that’s enough for this morning, isn’t it? 因此，当我们内心很混乱时，出于混乱去寻求光明 那就是在加深混乱。对吗？我不知道你是否看到了这点。 我很混乱，由这份混乱，无论我做什么， 都仍然是混乱的。 无论我做什么选择，都依然是混乱的。 因此，首先，有没有可能在我自己内心清除掉这份混乱？ 这是可能的，当依附和意象的制造 ——我就拿这两个来举例—— 当摆脱了这两个的时候，就会有清明， 绝对、彻底的清明。 因此，不存在选择。 经由对失序的这份了解，秩序就会到来。 但是在我混乱之际，却去寻求秩序的话 ——就像政客们和所有的人所做的那样—— 就会引起更进一步的混乱。 对吗？ 我想今天早上讲得差不多了，对吗？