克里希那穆提 - 冥想的开始

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR78T4 - 冥想的开始
第四次公开讲话
英国布洛克伍德公园
1978年9月3日

0:38	K: There are a lot of people and I hope some of you understand what is being said. You know we have been talking over together for the last week our human problems not only talking over together as two friends but what each one of us has discovered for himself in our conversation and in our exploration and investigation. It must become quite obvious for most of us if we are at all serious and not treat these gatherings as a kind of festival - a little more serious than the pop festival or other kinds of festivals.	克：来的人真不少，我希望你们中有些人能理解我们所说的话。你知道，我们上周一起讨论了我们人类的问题，不仅像两个朋友那样一起讨论，而且我们每个人在我们的谈话中、在我们的探索和研究中都有自己的发现。这对我们多数人来说肯定是显而易见的，如果我们确实认真，不把这些集会当作某种节日的话——这比大众节日或其他各种庆祝活动要严肃一些。
1:53	This morning it will be good to talk over together as we have talked over fear, pleasure sorrow, pain and death I think we ought to talk over this morning the very complex and subtle problem of what is meditation. It is quite a serious issue and perhaps some of you will kindly pay sufficient attention to what is being said, if you care to.	我们今天上午很适合一起来探讨，因为我们已经讨论过恐惧、快乐、悲伤、痛苦和死亡，我想今天上午我们应该讨论那个非常复杂和微妙的问题——什么是冥想。这是一个非常严肃的话题，如果你们关心的话，恳请你们之中能有些人对所说的话给以充分的关注。
2:52	This word is now becoming so common even the governments are beginning to use it even the people who want money are trying to meditate more to get more money. They are trying to meditate in order to become quiet so that they can do better business. And the doctors are practising meditation because it will help them to operate properly and so on and on and on and on. And there are different kinds of meditations Zen, Tibetan and the ones you invent for yourself. And with all this in mind, the Indian type of meditation the Tibetan, the Zen, the Encounter Group meditation and the aspiration to have a still, quiet, silent mind bearing all this in mind let us try to find out, if we can this morning why one should meditate and what is the significance of meditation.	“冥想”这个词现在变得非常流行，甚至连政府都开始用这个词，甚至一些想发财的人都要更多地去冥想，好赚更多的钱。他们努力去冥想，好让内心变得安静，这样就可以把生意做得更好。医生也在练习冥想，因为冥想会帮助他们更好地做手术，等等，等等，等等。并且有各种各样的冥想，禅宗的、藏传的以及你自己发明的。脑子里记着这些，印度式冥想、藏式的、禅宗的、会心小组式的冥想，渴望拥有安宁、寂静的心，脑子里记着这些，我们试着去弄清楚——如果今天上午可以的话—— 为什么人应该冥想以及冥想的意义是什么。
4:37	This word has recently been popularised from India. And people go to India and to Japan and other places in order to learn meditation in order to practise meditation in order to achieve some kind of result through meditation enlightenment, better understanding of themselves have peace of mind, whatever that may mean and generally they have a little peace but not a peaceful mind. And the gurus have invented their own type of meditation and so on and on and on. Right? I am sure you are aware of all this.	这个词最近被从印度传播开来。并且人们到印度和日本以及其他一些地方去学习冥想、练习冥想，为了通过冥想达到某种结果，获得开悟和对自身更好的理解，拥有心灵的平静，不论那是什么意思，总的来说他们有了一点点平静，但并没有一颗宁静的心。并且上师们发明了他们各自的冥想形式，如此等等。对吗？我确信你了解所有这些事情。
5:44	And of course there is the passing fad which is called transcendental meditation. It is really a form of siesta in the morning siesta after lunch, siesta after dinner or before dinner so that your mind kind of becomes quiet and you can do more mischief afterwards. (Laughter)	当然还有一种流行的时尚，叫做超验冥想。那实际上就是在上午打个盹，或者午餐后休息一下，或者晚饭前后的小憩，这样你的头脑在某种程度上变得安静，随后你就能做更多的恶作剧了。（笑声）
6:19	So consider all this the various types and practices and systems and question them. It is good to have doubt it is good to be sceptical up to a certain point. It is like a dog on the leash you must let the dog go occasionally, run freely: so doubt, scepticism must be kept on a leash all the time but often it must be allowed to run free. And most of us accept the authority of those who say 'We know how to meditate, we will tell you all about it'.	所以要思考所有这些，各种形式的练习和理论体系，并质疑它们。存疑是有益的，在某种程度上保持怀疑，这很好。就像一条被牵着的狗，你必须让它有些时候能自由地跑一跑，所以，质疑、怀疑主义应该一直在掌控之下，但必须经常允许它自由活动。而我们多数人接受了那些人的权威，他们说： “我们知道怎样冥想，我们会告诉你一切。”
7:23	So please, we are together examining the whole problem or the whole question of what is meditation not how to meditate for then if you ask how am I to meditate then you will find a system to meditate the 'how' implies a method. But whereas if you are enquiring into this question of what is meditation and why should one meditate then we will never ask how to meditate. The very questioning the very asking is the beginning of enquiry which is the beginning of meditation.	请注意，我们是在一起审视这整个问题，什么是冥想这整个问题，而不是怎样冥想，因为如果你问我应该怎样冥想，那么你就会找到某种冥想的方法体系，那个“怎样”暗示着一种方法。然而，如果你深入探询什么是冥想以及为什么人要冥想这些问题，那么我们就从来不会问怎样冥想。恰恰这种质疑、这种提问就是探询的开始，就是冥想的开始。
8:25	As we said, this is a very complex problem and we have to go very slowly and hesitantly but subtly into this question. As we said during the last week we are investigating we are enquiring into it so that you are not listening to the speaker you are asking the question to yourself and finding the right answer without accepting any kind of authority especially the authority of the speaker sitting on this unfortunate platform. It doesn't give him any authority because he sits on a platform and talks. There is no authority in so-called spiritual matters if I can use that word 'spiritual' in the matter of the spirit in the matter of enquiring into something that demands very, very, very careful examination. So we are doing this together not meditating together but enquiring what is meditation and from that discover for oneself as we go along the whole movement of meditation. Is this all right?	我们说过，这是个非常复杂的问题，所以我们不得不慢慢地、小心地但精细地深入这个问题。就像我们上周说的，我们是在探究，我们是在深入探询，所以你不是在听那个讲话者说，而是你在问自己那个问题并找出正确答案，而不接受任何权威，特别是坐在这个倒霉的讲台上的讲话者的权威。他坐在台上讲话，这并不能赋予他任何权威。在所谓的精神领域不存在任何权威，如果我可以用“精神”这个词的话，在精神领域的问题上，在探索这样的事情上，需要非常非常仔细的检验。我们正在一起这样做，不是在一起冥想，而是探询什么是冥想，并且在我们梳理冥想的整个运动这个过程中，自己去找到答案。这样好吗？
10:30	First I think one must be careful in observing that meditation is not something that you do. Meditation is something entirely, a movement into the whole question of our living. That is the first thing: how we live, how we behave whether we have fears anxieties, sorrows or if we are pursuing everlastingly pleasure whether we have built images about ourselves and about others. That is part of our life and in the understanding of that life and of those various issues involved in life and being free from those actually being free then we can proceed to enquire into what is meditation. That is why we have, for the last ten days or the last week we have said we must put order in our house our house is ourselves - complete order. Then when that order is established not according to a pattern but when there is understanding complete understanding of what is disorder what is confusion why we are in contradiction in ourselves why there is this constant struggle between the opposites and so on, which we have been talking about for the last ten days or last week. Having put that in order, our life in order and the very placing things in their proper place is the beginning of meditation. Right? If we have not done that, actually, not theoretically but in daily life every moment of our life then if you have not done that then meditation becomes merely another form of illusion another form of prayer another form of wanting something money, position, refrigerator and so on.	首先，我认为一个人在观察中必须当心，冥想不是一件你要去做的事情。冥想完全是一种运动，一种深入我们整个生存问题的运动。这是首要的事情：我们怎样生活，我们怎样行动，我们是否恐惧、焦虑、悲伤，或者我们是不是永远都在追求快乐，我们是否建立了关于自己、关于他人的意象。那是我们生活的一部分，并且在对这种生活的理解中、对各种生活问题的理解中，从这些问题之中解脱出来，真正解脱出来，然后我们就能进一步探询什么是冥想。这就是为什么在过去的十天或一周内我们说必须让我们的房子井然有序，我们的房子就是我们自己——彻底有序。然后，当那个秩序不是按照某个模式建立起来的，而是因为理解了、完全理解了什么是失序、什么是困惑，为什么我们自身存在冲突，为什么对立面之间存在这种持续的斗争等等，在过去的十天或一周内我们探讨过这些问题。让那些有序，使我们的生活有序，把事物放到各自恰当的位置上，恰恰是冥想的开始。对吗？如果我们没有做到这点，实际上做到，不是从理论上，而是在日常生活中，在我们生活的每一刻，如果你没有做到这点，那么冥想就只会变成另外一种形式的幻想、另外一种形式的祷告、另外一种形式的欲望，想要得到什么东西 ——金钱、地位、冰箱，等等。
13:52	So we are asking now: what is the movement of meditation? First of all we must understand the importance of the senses. Most of us react or act according to the urges demands and the insistence of our senses. And those senses never act as a whole but only as a part. Right? Please understand this. If you don't mind enquiring into this a little more for yourselves, talking over together that all our senses never function, move, operate as a whole, holistically. If you observe yourself and watch your senses you will see that one or the other of the senses becomes dominant. One or the other of the senses takes a greater part in observation in our daily living so there is always imbalance in our senses. Right? May we go on from there?	所以现在我们要问：什么是冥想的运动？首先我们必须了解感官感觉的重要性。我们多数人的反应或行动是根据我们感受到的冲动、需求和主张做出的。并且那些感觉从来没有作为一个整体行动，而只是局部地行动。对吗？请务必理解这点。如果你不介意亲自去更深入地探索这个问题、一起来讨论的话，我们所有的感觉从来不作为一个整体、完整地发挥功能和运作。如果你观察自己、观察你的感觉，你就会看到这个或那个感觉会占据主导地位。这个或那个感觉在观察中、在我们的日常生活中起了更大的作用，所以我们的各种感觉总是存在着不平衡。对吗？我们可以从这里继续往下进行吗？
15:52	Now is it possible this is part of meditation, what we are doing now is it possible for the senses to operate as a whole to look at the movement of the sea the bright waters the eternally restless waters to watch those waters completely, with all your senses? Or a tree, or a person or a bird in flight, a sheet of water the setting sun, or the rising moon to observe it, look at it with all your senses fully awakened. If you do, then you discover for yourself. I am not telling you, I am not your authority I am not your guru, you are not my followers. Followers are the most destructive people and the gurus too if you observe this if you observe this operation of the whole senses acting you will find there is no centre from which the senses are moving. Are you trying this as we are talking over together? To look at your girl, or your husband, or your wife or the tree, or the house with all the highly active, sensitive senses. Then in that there is no limitation. You try it. You do it and you will find out for yourself. That is the first thing one has to understand: the place of the senses. Because most of us operate on partial or particular senses. We never move or live with all our senses fully awakened, flowering. Because as most of us live operate and think partially so one of our enquiries into this is for the senses to function fully and realise the importance and the illusions that senses create you are following all this? And to give the senses their right place which means not suppressing them, not controlling them not running away from them but to give the proper place to the senses. You understand? This is important because in meditation if you want to go into it very deeply unless one is aware of the senses they create different forms of neurosis different forms of illusions they dominate in our emotions and so on, so on, so on. So that is the first thing to realise: if when the senses are fully awakened, flowering then the body becomes extraordinarily quiet. Have you noticed all this? Or am I talking to myself? Because most of us force our bodies to sit still not fidget, not to move about and so on - you know. Whereas if all the senses are functioning healthily and normally, vitally then the body relaxes and becomes very, very quiet, if you do it. Do it as we are talking.	那么有没有可能 ——我们现在做的，就是冥想的一部分—— 各种感觉有没有可能作为一个整体来运作，看着大海的运动，那明亮的海水，那永远不停涌动的海水，能不能用你全部的感觉完整地观看海水？或者看一棵树、一个人、一只飞翔的鸟儿，或者一袭水面，看落日，或初升的月亮，用你完全清醒的所有感觉去观察、去看。如果你这么做，那么你自己就会有所发现。我不会告诉你的，我不是你的权威，我不是你的上师，你不是我的追随者。追随者是最具破坏性的一群人，上师也一样，如果你观察这一点，如果你观察到所有感觉的整体运作，你就会发现不存在一个产生感觉的中心。当我们一起讨论的时候你在尝试这样做吗？看着你的女朋友，或你的丈夫、你的妻子，或者树，或者房子，用高度活跃而敏锐的所有感觉去看。那么其中就不存在局限。你试一下。你这么做，然后你自己就会发现。这是一个人首先要理解的事情：各种感觉的作用。因为我们多数人都根据局部的或个别的感觉来行动。我们从来没有用我们完全清醒、充分开放的所有感觉来活动或生活。因为我们多数人都在局部地生活、运作和思考，所以我们在此探询的目的之一正是让所有感觉充分地发挥功能，并意识到这样做的重要性，意识到感觉所制造的幻象。你理解这些了吗？而给各种感觉正确的地位，并不是说要压抑、控制或逃避它们，而是给各种感觉适当的位置。你理解吗？这很重要，因为在冥想中，如果你想真正深入进去，就必须觉察到各种感觉，是它们制造了各种形式的神经症、各种形式的幻象，它们支配了我们的感情等等，等等，等等。所以，首先要了解：只有当各种感觉完全清醒、充分开放，身体才能变得极其平静。你有没有意识到这些？还是我在自言自语？因为我们多数人都强迫自己的身体安静地坐着，不要坐立不安，不要动来动去，等等——你知道的。然而，如果所有的感觉健康、正常、充满活力地发挥功能，那么身体就会放松，就会变得非常非常安静，如果你那么做的话。请在我们说的时候就这么做。
21:15	Then the question arises: what is time? What is the place of time in meditation? And what is the place of control in meditation? You understand? May I go on? I hope we are meeting each other, are we? First let's take whether it is possible to live a life daily life, not occasionally but live a life without any form of control which doesn't mean permissive activity or doing what one likes rejecting tradition and you know all the modern young people are doing that is, no regret, no restraint no control, do what you want which the old people do anyhow only you think it is their prerogative something they have invented.	然后就有了这个问题：什么是时间？在冥想中时间有什么位置？并且控制在冥想中有什么位置？你明白吗？我可以继续吗？我希望我们互相理解了，不是吗？首先，让我们看看有没有可能过一种日常的生活，不是偶尔过一下，而是过一种没有任何控制的日常生活，那并不意味着放荡不羁的行为或者随心所欲、反对传统，你知道现代青年所做的那一切，也就是，没有懊悔、没有限制、没有控制，为所欲为，这些事儿老一辈的人们反正都已经做过了，只有你认为那是年轻人发明的，是他们的特权。
23:05	Now we are asking a question, please consider it seriously: whether it is possible to live a life without any form of control because when there is control there is the action of will. Right? Are you following? So what is will? I will do this. I must not do that. Or, I should in the future must do that, and so on. The operation of will. So we have to enquire what is will. Is will not desire? Is not will the essence of desire? Right? Please look at it. Don't reject it or accept it, enquire into it. Because we are now asking whether it is possible to live a life in which there is not a shadow of control which means not a shadow of the operation of will. And will is the very movement of desire. We went into the whole question of what is desire. I won't go into it now because I have a lot to cover this morning. Desire is contact, perception seeing, contact sensation from that arises desire and thought with its image - all that is desire which we went into but I won't go into now.	那么我们要问一个问题，请你认真思考：有没有可能过一种完全没有任何形式的控制的生活，因为如果有控制，就会有意志力的行为。对吗？你理解吗？那么什么是意志力？我要做这个。我不能做那个。或者，我将来应当、必须做那个，等等。意志力的运作。所以我们不得不探询什么是意志。意志不是欲望吗？意志不是欲望的核心吗？对吗？请看一下这个问题。不要拒绝，也不要接受，而是深入进去探询。因为我们正在问有没有可能过一种完全没有丝毫控制的生活，也就是完全没有一丁点儿意志的运作。而欲望的活动恰恰就是意志。我们深入探讨过究竟什么是欲望这个问题。在这里我就不再重复了，因为今天上午我要讲很多内容。欲望是接触、知觉、看见、触摸、感官感受，欲望和思想连同意象都从中得以产生——这一切都是欲望，我们深入探讨过了，这里我不再重复。
25:28	And we are asking: is it possible to live without the action of will? Most of us live a life of restraint, control suppression, and so on, escape. And you have to ask: who is the controller? When you say, 'I must control myself, my anger my jealousy, my laziness, my indolence' and so on who is the controller? Is the controller different from that which he controls? You understand? Or are they both the same? The controller is the controlled. This is probably too difficult. Is it all right? Do we understand? After all you have listened to me for a week or ten days by now our language our use of words must be quite common and understood. So as long as there is a controller he is exercising his capacity to control. And we are saying the controller is the essence of desire. And he is trying to control his activities, his thoughts his wishes and so on, so on. So realising all that can one live a life which is not promiscuous which is not doing what you like but a life without any form of control, either sexual and not indulgence the will to control what you should, should not you know the whole problem of control. Very few people have gone into this question. And the whole eastern form of meditation is partly control. And personally I object to the whole their system of any form of control because the mind then is never free always subjugating itself to a pattern whether that pattern is established by another or by oneself.	而我们要问：有没有可能过一种没有意志力行为的生活？我们多数人都过着一种克制、控制、压抑、逃避等等的生活。于是你不得不问：谁是那个控制者？当你说，“我必须控制我自己，我的愤怒、我的嫉妒、我的懒惰、懒散” 等等，那谁是那个控制者？那个控制者与他所控制的东西不同吗？你明白吗？或者他们都是一回事？控制者就是被控制之物。这理解起来可能太难了。是吗？我们明白了吗？毕竟你们听我讲了一周或者十天的时间了，到目前为止我们的语言、我们所用的词语都非常平实、非常好理解。所以只要存在一个控制者，他就要尽自己所能去控制。而我们说控制者就是欲望的核心。他要尽力去控制他的行动、他的思想、他的愿望，等等，等等。所以意识到了这一切，一个人能否过一种不放纵、不随心所欲的生活，过一种没有任何形式的控制的生活，既不去控制性，也不会放纵，无需运用意志去控制你应该、不应该做什么，你知道关于控制的整个问题。很少有人深入过这个问题。而整个东方式的冥想一部分就是控制。我个人反对那整个体系，反对他们体系中任何形式的控制，因为那样的话心灵就永远无法自由，总是让自己服从某个模式，不论那个模式是别人还是自己建立的。
28:42	So the senses, the control. Then we must ask: what is time? Not the scientific fiction science fiction of time. What is, in our daily life, what is time? What part does it play in our life? How important is it in our daily activities? You understand my question? Of course there is time by the watch. There is time according to the sun the setting and the rising of the sun. There is time as yesterday, today and tomorrow. There is time as something that happened in the past remembered, and shaping the present and the future. Right? So there is physical chronological time and we have also psychological time I will be, I must, I am violent, I will be non-violent. All that implies a movement of time. Right? Movement means time. Please understand this really very carefully because we are going to enquire into meditation which is whether the mind can be absolutely quiet in which time as movement doesn't exist at all. You are following all this? Are you interested in all this? Q: Yes.	于是就有了那些感觉和控制。那么我们必须要问：什么是时间？不是科幻小说，关于时间的科幻小说。在我们的日常生活中，什么是时间？在我们的生活中它起什么作用？它在我们的日常活动中有多么重要？你理解我的问题吗？当然存在钟表上的时间。存在根据太阳确定的时间，太阳的落下和升起。有昨天、今天和明天这样的时间。还有过去发生的事情被记住并塑造着现在和未来这样的时间。对吗？所以存在物理意义上的顺序的时间，并且我们也有心理时间，我将成为，我必须，我是暴力的，我要变得不暴力。所有这些都意味着时间的运动。对吗？运动意味着时间。请务必非常仔细地理解这点，因为我们要深入探究冥想这个问题，也就是，头脑能否绝对安静，作为运动的时间在其中根本不存在。你理解这些吗？你对这些感兴趣吗？问：是的。
31:06	K: Even as intellectual curiosity? Because this is very important to understand whether time, not chronological time but psychological time, can that come to an end? Or must there be always till I die this movement of I will be, I must not be, I should be, I shall not be regret, remembrance - you follow? the whole psychological activity in which time is involved. That is, can time come to an end? Please see why it is important. Because our brains are conditioned to time our brains are the result of a million years and more how many it doesn't matter - immemorial centuries upon centuries the brain is conditioned it has evolved, grown, flowered. It is a very, very ancient brain and as it has evolved through time evolution implies time - as it evolved it functions in time. You understand? I wonder if you understand all this! The moment you say, 'I will' it is in time. When you say, 'I must do that' it is also in time. Everything that we do involves time and our brains are conditioned to not only chronological time, sun, rising, sun setting but also to the psychological time. So the brain has evolved through millennia and the very idea the very question whether it can end time you follow? - it is a paralysing process. I wonder if you understand this? It is a shock to it. Does somebody understand this?	克：哪怕是从智识的角度感到好奇？因为理解这点非常重要，时间，——不是物理时间，而是指心理时间——能否终止？还是直到我临死前都要存在这种运动：我将成为，我不能如何，我应该如何，我不应该如何，遗憾、记忆——你明白吗？那整个牵涉时间的心理活动。也就是说，时间能终止吗？请看到这为什么很重要。因为我们的头脑被时间所制约，我们的头脑是一百多万年的产物，到底多少年不重要——自远古时代开始，数千年来头脑被制约着，它发展演化、成长、绽放。它是一个非常非常古老的大脑，因为它通过时间来进化，进化意味着时间——当它进化时，它就在时间中运作。你明白吗？我想知道你有没有理解这些！当你说“我将要”的那一刻，就是在时间里面。当你说“我必须那样做”，那也是在时间里面。我们做的任何事情都涉及到时间，所以我们的头脑不仅局限于物理时间——太阳升起，太阳落下—— 也局限于心理时间之中。所以人类的大脑经过了数千年的进化，而正是“能否终止时间” 这个想法、这个问题 ——你理解吗？——恰恰是一个令它瘫痪的过程。我想知道你有没有理解这点？对它是一种震撼。有人理解了这点吗？
34:19	Because we are going to ask presently whether the brain itself can be absolutely quiet. You understand? Not your body, not your breathing not your eyes and thought - the brain itself which is constantly chattering constantly thinking about this, that and the other. Whether those very brain cells can be absolutely quiet. So therefore we must understand the nature of time. That is, psychologically, inwardly we are caught in a network of time. I am going to die, I am afraid I shall be, I have been and I remember the happy things or the painful things. And the brain is functioning, living in time. Right? You can see this yourself. This is an obvious fact.	因为我们现在要问头脑本身能否彻底安静。你理解吗？不是说你的身体，不是说你的呼吸，也不是你的眼睛和思想——而是头脑本身，那个一直在唠叨、一直在考虑这个、那个和别的什么的头脑。那些脑细胞本身能否彻底安静下来。所以我们必须理解时间的本质。也就是说，在心理上、内在地我们被困在时间的罗网中。我会死去，我害怕，我应该如何，我已经如何，我记住快乐的事情或痛苦的事情。于是头脑在时间中运作、生存。对吗？你自己也能看到这点。这是个明显的事实。
35:43	So part of meditation is to find out for oneself whether time can stop. Not - you can't do this saying, 'Time must stop' it has no meaning. But to understand the whole structure and the nature and the depth of this question. Right? That means: is it possible for the brain to realise that it has no future? Do you understand what I am saying? We live either in despair, or in hope. Right? Don't you? Hope is part of time. I am miserable, unhappy, uncertain, I hope to be happy do you understand? Part of time is this destructive nature of hope or the invention of the priests throughout the world - faith. You suffer but have faith in God, everything is all right. Do you follow all this? Again that is, faith in something involves time. Can you stand - stand in the sense can you tolerate that there is no tomorrow psychologically? Can you? That is part of meditation, to find out psychologically there is no tomorrow.	所以冥想的一部分就是亲自去发现时间能否停止。不是——你不能指望通过说“时间必须停止”来做到这一点，那没什么意义。而是要去理解这个问题的整个结构、本质和深层内涵。对吗？那就是说：头脑有没有可能意识到它没有未来？你理解我说的意思吗？我们要么生活在失望中，要么生活在希望中。对吗？难道你不是吗？希望是时间的一部分。我痛苦、不幸福、不确定，我希望幸福，你理解吗？时间的一部分是希望的这种破坏性本质，或者是全世界牧师的发明——信仰。你痛苦但是信仰上帝，一切就都会好起来。你理解所有这些吗？同样，对某物的信仰中包含了时间。你能承受——承受的意思是，你能忍受心理上没有明天可言吗？你能吗？去发现心理上没有明天，就是冥想的一部分。
38:20	We were once talking with somebody quite intelligent quite learned, about this question. And it was a real shock to him when we said: hope, faith, movement of the future as tomorrow is non existent. He was appalled at the idea - you understand, sir? 'I shan't meet you tomorrow, whom I love' do you understand what I am saying? I may meet you, I probably will but the hope, the pleasure the looking forward to something all that is involved in time. Which doesn't mean if you have no hope that you discard hope which means that you understand the movement of time. If you discard hope then you become bitter then you say, 'Why should I live, what is the purpose of life?' and all that nonsense begins - depression agony to live without anything in the future do you understand all this?	我们曾经和一个非常聪明、非常有学问的人讨论过这个问题。而这对他确实是一个震动，当我们说到：希望、信仰、明天这种未来的运动并不存在。他对这个想法非常震惊——你明白吗，先生？ “我明天不会见到你，我的爱人” ——你理解我说的话吗？我也许会遇到你，很可能会，但那种希望、那种欢愉、那种对某事的期望，所有这些都牵涉到了时间。那并不意味着如果你没有希望你就抛弃希望，而是意味着你理解了时间的运动。如果你抛弃希望，你就会变得苦恼，你就会说，“我为什么要活着，生命的意义在哪里？” 所有那些废话就都来了——因生活没有未来而沮丧、痛苦，你明白这些吗？
40:04	So one has to go into this question not verbally not theoretically but actually to find out psychologically in yourself if you have the slightest sense of tomorrow.	所以一个人不得不深入这个问题，不是口头上、理论上而是切实地从自己的心理上去弄清楚你有没有一丝一毫明天的感觉。
40:35	And the next question in meditation is whether thought as time can stop? Thought, as we have talked a great deal about it is important, important in its right place. But it has no importance whatsoever psychologically. I wonder if you see this. We shall, I must go briefly into it.	而冥想中的下一个问题是：作为时间的思想能否停止？就像我们已经大量讨论的那样，思想很重要，在其恰当的位置上是很重要的。但是在心理上它无论如何都毫不重要。我想知道你是否明白这点。我们应当，我必须稍微深入讲一下这个问题。
41:21	Thought is the reaction of memory, it is born from memory. Memory is experience experience as knowledge stored up in the brain cells themselves. You can watch your own brain you don't have to become a specialist I am not, I've just observed myself very carefully. The brain cells hold this memory. It is a material process. There is nothing sacred, nothing holy about it. And everything that we have done: going to the moon, planting a silly flag up there going down to the depths of the sea and living there thought has created all this the immense complicated technology and its machinery. Thought has been responsible for all this. Thought has also been responsible for all wars Right? this is obvious, you don't have to question it even because your thought has divided Britain, France Germany, Russia - you follow? And thought has created the psychological structure as the 'me'. Right? That 'me' is not holy, something divine. It is just thought putting together the anxieties the fears, the pleasures, the sorrow, the pain the attachments, the fear of death it has put all this together which is the 'me'. It is this 'me' with its consciousness. Right I wonder. May we proceed from there? You are following all this? This is 'me', this consciousness. This consciousness is what it contains. Consciousness, your consciousness is what you are it is your anxieties, your fears, your struggle your wounds, your psychological despairs, pleasure and so on. The content of your consciousness is its content. Right? Again there is nothing to argue, made difficult, it is simple. And that is the result of time. Right? I have been hurt yesterday, psychologically you said something brutal to me, it has wounded me and it is part of my consciousness. I have had pleasure, that's part of and so on. So consciousness is involved in time. When we say can time end it implies the total emptying of this consciousness with its content. It implies that. Whether you can do it or not, that is a different matter. But it implies that.	思想是记忆的反应，它是记忆的产物。记忆就是经验，经验作为知识储存在脑细胞里。你可以观察自己的大脑，你不必成为一个专家，我不是专家，我仅仅仔细地观察我自己。脑细胞保留着这些记忆。这是一个物质过程，其中没有任何神奇、神圣的东西。而且我们做的任何事情：登上月球，插个愚蠢的国旗在上面，潜入深海，并在那里生活，思想创造了这一切，这些无比复杂的技术和装备。思想为这一切负责。思想也要为所有的战争负责。对吗？这显而易见，你甚至都没有必要质疑，因为是你的思想分出了英国、法国、德国、俄罗斯——你明白吗？并且思想制造了 “我”这个心理结构。对吗？那个“我”并不神圣，不是神圣之物。它仅仅是集合了焦虑、恐惧、快乐、悲伤、痛苦、依附、害怕死亡的思想，它把所有这些拼凑起来，就是那个“我”。它就是“我”及其意识。对吗？我想知道我们可以往下进行吗？你理解所有这些了吗？这就是“我”，这个意识。这个意识就是它所包含的内容。意识，你的意识就是你，就是你的焦虑、你的恐惧、你的挣扎、你的创伤、你心理上的绝望、快乐等等。你意识的内容就是你的“自我”的内容。对吗？同样，这无需论证，这不复杂、很简单。并且这是时间的结果。对吗？昨天我心理上受伤了，你对我说了些残忍的话，伤害了我，而这成了我意识的一部分。我有过欢乐，那也成了我意识的一部分，等等。所以意识包含了时间。当我们说时间能否终止，这意味着这个意识及其内容被完全清空。就是这个意思。你能否做到，是另外一回事。但它就是那个意思。
45:39	When you are enquiring into time whether the innumerable layers of this consciousness sensation, desire and all that layer after layer, the whole structure of it whether that consciousness which is a result of time yesterday I was hurt and so on and so on whether that consciousness can empty itself completely therefore time psychologically ends. I am putting first this question for you to look at. Then we can ask: is it possible? Do you understand my question? You are aware of your consciousness - aren't you? you know what you are, if you have gone into it sufficiently at least for the last week you might have done it, somewhat. But if you have gone into it you will see all this travail, all this struggle all the misery, uncertainty is part of you part of this consciousness, your ambitions, your greed your aggressiveness, your anger, your bitterness all that is part of this consciousness which is the accumulation from 1000 yesterdays to today. And we are asking whether that consciousness which is the result of time psychological as well as physiological can empty itself so that time has come to an end. You have understood the question first? Please, somebody say 'yes' or 'no' - (laughs) at least.	当你深入探索时间，探索这个意识的无数层面，感情、欲望等所有那些东西一层又一层，其整个结构，那个意识作为时间的结果，昨天我被伤害了，等等，等等，那个意识能不能完全将自身清空，进而时间从心理上得以终止。我先提出这个问题，由你来审视。那么我们会问：这可能吗？你理解我的问题吗？你了解你的意识，——不是吗？你知道你是什么，如果你足够深入地探究过这个问题，至少在上周你已经做了一些探索。但如果你深入进去，你就会看到所有这些艰辛、所有这些挣扎、所有的苦难、不确定性，都是你的一部分，这个意识的一部分，你的野心、你的贪婪、你的好斗、你的愤怒、你的苦恼，所有这些都是这个意识的一部分，是从一千个昨天到今天的积累。而我们要问，那个意识作为时间——心理的和生理的—— 的结果，能否清空自己好让时间停止。首先，你理解了这个问题吗？拜托，至少得有人说句“是”或“不是”吧（笑）。
47:38	Q: Yes.	问：是的。
47:41	K: Don't go to sleep. We are going to find out if it is possible. If you say it is not possible then you have closed the door then you might just as well walk out don't sit here and waste your time if you say it is not possible. And if you say it is possible you have also closed the door. But whereas if you say let's find out then you are open to it, you are eager to find out. Right? Please this is not an intellectual game. This is not an entertainment on a Sunday morning. This is not a sermon either. I must tell you a lovely story about it. There was a preacher with his disciples and every morning he used to give a sermon for ten minutes, quarter of an hour. And all the captive audience listened to him. (Laughter) And one day he gets on the rostrum and begins just about to begin. A bird comes along, sits on the window-sill and begins to sing. And the preacher doesn't say a word. the bird, after singing, flies away. The preacher then says 'The sermon is over for this morning'. (Laughter) Right? I wish I could say that too! (Laughter)	克：请不要打瞌睡。我们要弄清楚这有没有可能。如果你说那不可能，那么你就关上了门，那你大可走出去，不用坐在这儿浪费你的时间，如果你说那不可能的话。而如果你说那是可能的，你也关上了门。但如果你说让我们去发现，那么你就是开放的，你热切地想去发现。对吗？请注意这不是一场智力游戏。这不是一场星期天上午的娱乐活动。这也不是一场布道。我必须告诉你一个跟这有关的好听的故事。从前有个师父带着一帮徒弟，他每天早上要进行一场布道，大约十到十五分钟。所有迷恋他的人都去听他布道。（笑声）一天他走上讲坛开始布道，正要打算开始，一只小鸟飞过来，落在窗台上开始唱歌。而那个师父一言不发。那只鸟儿，唱完后就飞走了。然后那个师父说： “今天早上的布道到此结束。”（笑声）嗯？我希望我也能这么说！（笑声）
49:44	So the question now is if you are serious enough to go into it: whether it is possible to empty totally the whole content of ourselves the content of our consciousness this consciousness which has been built through time. Is it not possible - just please listen to it is it not possible to end one of the contents of your consciousness your hurt, your psychological wound? Surely you know what that means. Most of us psychologically have been hurt from childhood: parents, school, you know, whole existence we are hurt. That is part of your consciousness. Can you end that hurt completely totally wipe it out without leaving a mark? You can, can't you? If you pay attention to the wound know what has caused it and the wound is the image you have about yourself that has been wounded and end that image that is wounded you can do that if you have gone into it very, very deeply. Or if you are attached to somebody if you are attached to your wife or your husband it doesn't matter what it is, attached to a belief to a country, to a sect, to a group of people and so on to Jesus and so on, can you not completely logically, sanely, rationally end it? Because you see attachment implies jealousy, anxiety, fear, pain and having pain you become more and more and more attached seeing the nature of attachment the perception of attachment is the flowering of intelligence. That intelligence says how stupid to be attached - it is finished. You understand this?	那么现在的问题是，如果你足够认真地深入探讨这个问题：有没有可能完全清空我们自己的整个内容、我们意识的内容，这个意识是通过时间建立起来的。难道不可能——请注意听这个问题，难道不可能终止你意识中的一个内容，你受的伤害、你的心理创伤吗？你当然知道那意味着什么。我们多数人从童年开始就受过心理上的伤害：父母、学校，你知道，我们被伤害的所有事情。那是我们意识的一部分。你能完全结束那种伤害，把它完全清除，不留一点痕迹吗？你能，不是吗？如果你关注那个创伤，知道是什么原因造成了伤害，而那个创伤是你对自己抱有的意象受到了伤害，并结束那个受伤害的意象，如果你非常深入地探索下去，你就能做到这一点。或者，如果你依附于某个人，如果你依附于你的妻子或你的丈夫，无论依附于什么，依附于某个信念、某个国家、某个教派、某个群体，等等，依附于耶稣等等，你能不能理智地、合理地、理性地彻底终止这种依附？因为你看到依附意味着嫉妒、焦虑、恐惧、痛苦，而忍受着痛苦你会变得越来越依赖，看到依附的本质、对依附的洞察就是智慧的绽放。那个智慧说：依附是多么愚蠢——依附就结束了。你明白吗？
52:35	So go into it. Or you have a particular psychological habit thinking always in a certain direction. That is part of your consciousness. Can thought move away from the groove, from the rut? Of course it can. So it is possible - please listen - it is possible to empty totally, completely the content. Now if you do it one by one, that is attachment, your hurts your anxiety and so on, it will take infinite time. See what is involved if you do it one by one, it will take time. So you are caught in time again. I wonder if you see this. Whereas is it possible to empty it without involving time instantly, as a whole, not parts? No, I'll show it to you, don't shake your head, or agree or disagree! Do you understand my question? When you do part by part you are still involved in time. If you realise that, if you really see the truth of it then you won't do it partially. Right? Naturally.	所以请深入进去。或者你有一个特别的心理习惯，总是往某个特定方向思考问题。那是你意识的一部分。思想能否脱离这种窠臼、这种陋习？当然能。所以那是可能的——请听好—— 完全地、彻底地清空其内容是可能的。那么，如果你一个一个地去清除，也就是你的依附、你的伤害、你的焦虑等等，那会花费无数的时间。看看如果你一个一个地清除会牵涉到什么，那需要时间。那么你就又被时间困住了。我想知道你是不是明白了这点。然而，有没有可能不牵涉时间、立即清除它的全部而不是部分？算了，我来指给你看，不用摇头，也不用同意或不同意！你理解我的问题吗？当你一部分一部分地清除，你就仍然被卷入了时间之中。如果你意识到了这一点，如果你确实看到了其中的真相，那么你就不会去局部地清除。对吗？自然如此。
54:28	Then you move to a different question which is: can it be done in its entirety? That is, is there an observation of this consciousness which is not mine really it is not my particular consciousness it is the universal consciousness. My consciousness is like your consciousness or somebody else's consciousness, because we suffer we go through agony, etc., etc. There may be a few who have said 'Out' they have flowered out, gone beyond. That is irrelevant.	那么你就会来到下一个问题，那就是：能全部清除吗？就是说，有没有一种对这个意识的观察，这个意识其实不是我的，它不是我特殊的意识，而是全人类共同的意识。我的意识就跟你的意识或其他人的意识一样，因为我们受苦，我们经历苦难，等等，等等。也许有少数人说他们“脱离了”，他们修得了正果，超越了。可那毫不相干。
55:11	So we are asking: is it possible to observe the thing in its entirety wholly and in the very observation of that totality the ending of it? You understand my question? So is it possible to observe your hurt, or your anxiety or your guilt or whatever it is, totally? You understand my question? Suppose I have guilt. I feel guilty which I don't, but suppose I do. Can I look at that guilt how it arose, what was the reason for it and how I am dreading further, and so on the entire structure of guilt, can I observe it wholly? Of course you can - no? You can observe it only wholly when you are aware of the nature of being hurt. You can be aware of it and the guilt and so on all the various things that we have collected you can be aware of it if there is no direction or motive involved in that awareness. Capito? Have you understood this? I'll explain, I'll go into it.	所以我们要问：有没有可能完整地观察事物的整体，而正是在对那个整体的观察中把它结束？你理解我的问题吗？所以有没有可能完整地观察你的伤害、你的焦虑、你的内疚或者无论什么？你理解我的问题吗？假设我有内疚。我感到内疚，其实我不内疚，而是假设我内疚。我能不能看看那个内疚是如何产生的，由什么原因导致的，并且我如何害怕进一步发展，等等，内疚的整个结构，我能完整地观察它吗？你当然能——不是吗？只有当你了解了被伤害的实质，你才能整体地观察它。你能明了伤害以及内疚等等我们所收集的各种东西，你能觉察到那一切，如果在那个觉察之中不包含任何方向或动机。卡皮托？你理解这点吗？我会解释，我会深入探讨。
57:17	Suppose I am attached to something or somebody: can I not observe what are the consequences of attachment what is involved in attachment, how that attachment arose can't I observe the whole nature of it instantly? I am attached because I am lonely, I want comfort I want to depend on somebody because I can't stand by myself. I need companionship I need somebody to tell me you are doing very well, old boy. I need somebody to hold my hand, I am depressed, I am anxious. So I depend on somebody and out of that dependence arises attachment and from that attachment arises fear, jealousy, anxiety. Right? Can't I observe the whole nature of it instantly? Of course you can if you are aware if you are deeply interested to find out.	假设我依附于某个东西或某个人：我能不能观察依附的后果是什么，依附中包含什么，那个依附是怎么产生的，难道我不能立即观察到它的整个实质吗？我依附，因为我孤独，我想得到安慰，我想依靠某个人，因为我无法自立。我需要陪伴，我需要有人告诉我你过得不错，老兄。我需要有人拉着我的手，我悲观，我焦虑。所以我依靠某个人，而从那种依靠产生了依附，并且从那种依附中产生了恐惧、嫉妒、焦虑。对吗？难道我不能立刻观察到它的整个本质吗？你当然能，如果你是清醒的，如果你对发现真相有深厚的兴趣。
58:47	So we are saying that instead of doing it piecemeal by piecemeal it is possible to see the whole nature and the structure and the movement of consciousness with all its content. The content makes up the consciousness and to see it entirely is possible. And when you see the entirety of it it disintegrates.	所以我们说不要一点一点地清除，看到意识及其内容的整个本质、结构和运动是完全可能的。是内容构成了意识，而完整地看到它是可能的。并且当你看到了它的整体，它就消解了。
59:22	The question then is - we are asking this question: as the content is part of our daily life of our consciousness and that consciousness is the accumulation through time whether that time can stop which means is there an ending of all the struggles you know, all the rest of it, instantly? We say it is possible. I have shown it to you. It has been shown through examples. That is to have a complete insight into the whole nature of consciousness. Right? Insight means, implies without any motive, without any remembrance just to have instant perception of the nature of consciousness and that very insight dissolves the problem. I'm sorry if you have You have understood this, somewhat?	然后问题就是——我们要问这个问题：因为内容是我们意识、我们日常生活的一部分，而那个意识是通过时间进行的积累，那个时间能否停止，也就是说，能不能终结所有这些挣扎 ——你知道，诸如此类——即刻就终结？我们说这是可能的。我已经展示给你看了。已经通过举例说明了。那就是拥有对意识的整个本质的全然洞察。对吗？洞察意味着没有任何动机、没有任何记忆，只是对意识本质有一种即刻的觉察，正是这种洞察解决了问题。抱歉，如果你……你多少理解了这一点吧？
1:00:51	Then we can go to the next thing, which is: We are occupied with measure. Right? I am tall, I am short. I must be different from what I am. Measure - you understand? which is comparison, following an example. Our whole technological development is based on measure. If you had no measurement there could be no technological advance. That is, knowledge is movement in measure. I know, I shall know. It is all measurement. And that measurement has moved into the psychological field. Follow all this sir. Are you following?	那么我们可以进行下一个问题了，那就是：我们被衡量所占据。对吗？我个子高，我个子矮。我必须与我现在的样子不同。衡量——你明白吗？也就是比较，追随某个榜样。我们整个技术的发展是以衡量为基础的。如果你没有衡量，就不可能有技术进步。也就是说知识是衡量的运动。我知道，我会知道的。全都是衡量。并且那种衡量已经延伸到心理领域。请跟上这些，先生。你跟上了吗？
1:02:29	Q: Yes.	问：是的。
1:02:31	K: Watch yourself, how it works, you can see it very simply.	克：观察你自己，它怎样起作用，你会看到这非常简单。
1:02:36	And so we are always comparing psychologically. Now can you end comparison which is also the ending of time. Right? Measure means measuring myself with somebody and wanting to be like that, or not like that. The positive and the negative process is part through comparison, of measurement. I wonder if you see? Are you getting tired?	所以我们总是在心理上进行比较。那么，你能否终止比较，也就是终止时间？对吗？衡量意味着将我与别人进行比较，然后想变成那样，或者不那样。通过比较，肯定和否定的过程都是衡量的一部分。我想知道你是不是明白了？你们累了吗？
1:03:20	Q: No.	问：不累。
1:03:22	K: Go into it for yourself, you will see.	克：你自己深入进去，就会看到的。
1:03:27	So is it possible to live a daily life without any kind of comparison? You do compare two materials one corduroy colour against another corduroy colour but psychologically, inwardly to be free of comparison completely which means to be free of measurement. Measurement is the movement of thought. So can thought come to an end? You follow all this? You see most of us try to stop thinking - try to which is impossible. You may for a second say 'I have stopped thinking' but it is forced, it is compelled, it is a form of saying 'I have measured a second when I was not thinking'. So we are asking something which all the original real people who went into this question who said, 'Can thought come to an end?' That is, thought born from the known - you understand? of course knowledge is the known, which is the past can that thought come to an end? That is, can there be freedom from the known? You understand my question? Because we are always functioning from the known and therefore we have become extraordinarily capable and imitative, comparing and this constant endeavour to be something. Right? So can thought come to an end? Thought itself, when it is aware of itself knows its limitation and therefore it has its place. I wonder if you are Are you doing all this while we are talking?	那么，过一种完全没有比较的日常生活有没有可能？你确实可以比较两种材料，一种灯芯绒的颜色对比另一种灯芯绒的颜色，但在心理上、内在地，完全免于比较，那就意味着免于衡量。衡量是思想的运动。那么思想能停止吗？你理解这些吗？你看我们多数人都努力去停止思想——努力，那是不可能的。你可以一秒钟不思考，说“我停止了思考”，但那是被迫的、强制的，那不过是一种说法： “我测量出有一秒钟我没有思考。” 那么我们要问一件事情，这也是最初所有真诚的人们曾深入探索的问题，他们说，“思想能终止吗？” 也就是说，思想产生于已知——你明白吗？当然，知识就是已知，就是过去，那个思想能终止吗？换句话说，存在从已知中解脱的自由吗？你理解我的问题吗？因为我们总是根据已知进行活动，所以我们变得非常能干，擅长效仿、比较，并且不停地竭力成为什么。对吗？那么思想能不能终止？思想自身，当它觉察到自己，知道自己的局限，从而有它恰当的位置。我想知道你是不是我们探讨的时候，你有没有在这么做？
1:06:32	So we have talked about measurement, control the importance of the senses and their right place all this is part of meditation.	所以，我们已经讨论了衡量、控制，各种感觉的重要性及其正确的位置，所有这些都是冥想的一部分。
1:06:56	And we are asking next: when one has come to a certain point the senses can develop extra sensory perception because they become extraordinarily sensitive: telepathy, read other people's thoughts control, various forms of clairvoyance and so on and so on. They are still within the field of the senses. Right? So they have not this colossal importance that man is giving to them. Right? I wonder if you see this. The speaker has been through all this. Forgive me for entering personally one has been through all this and one sees the danger of it caught in all that sensory excitement, all that. It is stupid. So though these things there are definitely, but they are irrelevant.	接下来我们要问：当一个人来到了某个点上，各种感官都有超凡的感知能力，因为它们变得异常敏锐：心灵感应、读出他人的想法、控制、各种形式的千里眼，等等，等等。但它们仍然在感觉的领域之中。对吗？所以它们并没有人类赋予它们的那种巨大的重要性。对吗？我想知道你有没有明白这点。讲话者经历过所有这些。请原谅我加进了个人因素，我经历过所有这些，并且看到了其中的危险，被困在所有那些感官兴奋之中。那很愚蠢。所以，尽管这些事情确实存在，但它们毫不相干。
1:08:38	We are asking now another question which is: man is always seeking power. Right? The politicians, the priests the everyday man and woman wants to dominate wants to control, wants to possess. Power has become extraordinarily important. The two super powers. That means power in the hands of the few to dictate what others should think the Christian Church has done this excellently at one time. The heretics, the torture, the Inquisition and all that. Control man through propaganda, through books, through words through images, controlling him through his fear and reward and punishment. Any form of dissent is either tortured expelled, concentration camps, or burnt. Right? This is the history of man's stupidity though he calls it patriotic, religious. Now we are asking: is it possible to live without any sense of power? You understand what I am saying? Are you following all this, interested in all this? Which means, can you live in total anonymity and total humility? You may have a name, you may write a book or talk, like we're doing, and be somewhat famous notorious, whatever word you like to use but nothing behind it. So you are not seeking power through clairvoyance through telepathy, all this can be used by governments to control the captain in the submarine they are all experimenting with all this for god's sake be aware of all this. And can one live without any sense of power? You know there is great beauty in that to be totally anonymous. And the whole world is seeking identity power position.	现在我们要问另外一个问题：人类总是寻求权力。对吗？那些政治家、那些牧师，平常的男人和女人都想要支配、想去控制、想去拥有。权力变得至关重要。看看那两个超级大国。那意味着权力掌握在少数人手中，去命令其他人应该想什么，基督教会一度把这件事做到了极致。那些异教徒，那些严刑拷打、那些审讯，所有那些。控制人类，通过宣传、通过书籍、通过文字、通过偶像来控制，通过人们的恐惧、通过奖励和惩罚来控制人们。任何形式的异议要么被拷问、被驱逐、被送进集中营，要么被烧死。对吗？这就是人类的愚蠢史，尽管人类称之为爱国、宗教。现在我们要问：有没有可能过一种没有任何权力感的生活？你理解我说的话吗？你理解这些，对这些感兴趣吗？也就是说，你能完全无名、完全谦卑地生活吗？你可以有一个名字，你可以写书或者演讲，就像我们正在做的，并且有点名气，或者声名狼藉，不管你用什么词，但背后空无一物。所以你不通过“千里眼”、读心术等等寻求权力，这些能力可以被政府用来控制潜艇中的艇长，他们都在试验所有这些东西，看在老天的份上，看清这一切。而一个人能够不带任何权力感地生活吗？你知道其中蕴含着巨大的美，完全地无名。而整个世界都在寻求认同、权力、地位。
1:12:00	Now the next question is: can the brain - please listen to this can the brain, which is millions and millions of years old so heavily conditioned, so full of all that man has collected through centuries and therefore it is acting mechanically all the time can that brain be free from the known and can that brain never, never get old old in the sense physically? You understand what I am talking about? Don't you ask these questions? Do you? Perhaps you do when you get old when you are somewhat decrepit when you have lost your capacity to think you are losing your memory and then you say 'My god, I wish I could go back and be young again to have a fresh mind, a young mind, a decisive mind' Don't you ask this sometimes? Whether this brain can lose its burden and be free and never deteriorate. Don't say 'Yes' or 'No', find out. Which means - please listen if you want to are interested in this which means never psychologically register anything. Right? Do you understand? Never to register the flattery, the insult the various forms of impositions, pressures, never. To keep the tape completely fresh. Then it is young. Innocence means a brain that has never been wounded. Right? That is innocence that knows no misery, conflict, sorrow, pain, all that which is all registered in the brain and therefore it is always limited old, as it grows physically older. Whereas if there is no recording whatsoever psychologically, then the brain becomes extraordinarily quiet extraordinarily fresh. This is not a hope, this is not a reward (laughs) either you do it and discover it or you just accept words and say 'How marvellous that must be' 'I wish I could experience that' and you are off the mark. Whereas if you do it you will find out.	那么下一个问题是：头脑能否——请听好，那个头脑有数百万年那么古老，被深重地制约着，装满了人类数千年来收集的东西，因而一直机械地运作着，这个头脑能否从已知中解脱出来，这个头脑能否永远永远不变老？这里指的是身体意义上的变老。你理解我所说的话吗？难道你不问这些问题吗？问过吗？也许当你老去的时候，你会这么问，当你有些衰老的时候，当你失去了思考能力、失去你的记忆力时，然后你会说： “我的天啊，我希望我能返老还童，拥有一个新鲜的、年轻的、果断的头脑。” 难道你有时候不这么问问吗？这个头脑能否丢掉它的负担，变得自由并且永远不再退化。不要讲“会”或“不会”，去找出答案。也就是说——如果你愿意，对此感兴趣，那就请注意听—— 也就是说，从来不在心理上记录任何事情。对吗？你理解吗？从来不记录那些奉承、那些侮辱，各种形式的负担、压力，从来不记录。让那个磁带干净如初。那么它就是年轻的。纯真意味着一个从未受伤的头脑。对吗？那就是纯真，不知道苦难、冲突、悲伤、痛苦所有那一切为何物，这些都被记录在头脑中，头脑因而总是局限的、老旧的，就像它随着身体变老一样。然而如果在心理上没有任何记录，那么，头脑就变得异常安静、异常新鲜。这不是一个希望，也不是一种奖赏（笑），要么你做到并发现它，要么你仅仅是接受这些说法，然后说 “那该是多么美妙啊！” “我希望我能体验到那些！” 那你就偏离了。然而，如果你去做你就会发现。
1:16:00	So the brain then becomes, because of this insight which we have talked about because of that insight the brain cells undergo a change. It is no longer holding to memories. It is no longer the house of vast collected antiquity. Right? So that is that.	于是头脑因为这种洞察而变得 ——我们以前谈到过这种洞察—— 因为这种洞察，脑细胞经历了一种变化。它不再抓住记忆不放。它不再是一座收藏大量古董的房子。对吗？就是这样。
1:16:35	Then also we must ask the question: is there anything sacred in life? Is there anything that is holy, untouched by thought? Do you understand my question? Please understand the question itself. That which is holy, sacred we have put them in the churches as symbols the Virgin Mary, the Christ on the cross. Go to India, there they have their particular images go to Buddhist countries they have their own images and that has become sacred the name, the sculpture, the image, the symbol in certain places: churches, temples, mosques and so on. In the mosques - naturally there are no images but lovely writing, which has become an image also.	接下来我们也必须问这个问题：生活中存在神圣的事物吗？是否存在圣洁的不被思想触及的事物？你理解我的问题吗？请理解这个问题本身。那些圣洁的、神圣的东西，我们把它们作为符号放在教堂里，圣母玛利亚，十字架上的基督。到了印度，他们有他们独特的偶像，到了佛教国家，他们也有自己的偶像，并且那些变成了神圣的称呼、雕塑、偶像、符号，被安置在某些地方：教堂、寺庙、清真寺等等。清真寺里——自然没有偶像，但有漂亮的文字，那也成了一种偶像。
1:17:56	Now we are asking a question: is there anything sacred in life? Sacred being that which is deathless, timeless from eternity to eternity that which has known no beginning and no end do you understand? We are asking this. You can only find that out - no, you can't find it out nobody can find it out it may come when you have discarded all the things that thought has made sacred the pictures, the museums, the music the churches and their beliefs, their rituals, their dogmas all that is understood and discarded completely. There is no priest, no guru, no follower. Then in that tremendous quality of silence you may find out - in that silence there may come something that is not touched by thought because that silence is not created by thought.	那么我们要问一个问题：生活中是否存在神圣的事物？不死的、超越时间的神圣存在，从永远到永远，没有开始、也没有结束，你理解吗？我们在问这个问题。你只能发现它——不，你不能发现它，没有人能找到它，它会到来，当你放弃了一切思想制造的神圣之物，那些图画、那些博物馆、音乐、那些教堂以及其中的信仰、仪式、教条，所有这些都被了解并完全抛弃。没有牧师，没有上师，没有追随者。然后在那种非凡的寂静的品质中，你也许就会发现——在那种寂静中会出现思想无法触及的东西，因为那种寂静不是思想制造的。
1:19:41	So one has to question, go into this whole nature of silence. There is silence between two noises there is silence between two thoughts there is silence between two notes in music there is silence after noise there is silence when thought says, 'I must be silent' and creates that artificial silence and thinking that is real silence. There is silence when you sit quietly and force your mind to be silent. All those are artificial silences. They are not real deep, uncultivated, unpremeditated silence. We said silence can only come psychologically when there is no registration whatsoever. Then the mind, the brain itself is utterly without movement. Then in that great depth of silence not induced, not cultivated, not practised but in that silence there may come that extraordinary sense of something immeasurable, nameless. This whole movement from the beginning to the end of these talks is part of meditation. Finished.	所以一个人要深入探询寂静的整个本质。有两个响声之间的安静，两个想法之间的安静，两个音符之间的安静，声音过后的安静，当思想说“我必须安静”，制造出那种人为的安静，并认为那就是真正的安静时，那是某种安静。当你静坐并强迫你的头脑安静时，那也是一种安静。所有那些都是人为的安静。它们不是真正的、深刻的、未经雕琢和预谋的寂静。我们说过，只有当心理上没有任何记录时，寂静才能到来。那时心灵、头脑本身没有任何运动。然后在那种极为深刻的寂静中， ——那寂静并非经由引导、培养、练习而来，在那种寂静中也许就能感觉到那种非凡的、无法衡量、无法命名的事物。在这些谈话中进行的这种从始至终的整个运动就是冥想的一部分。说完了。
1:21:36	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
1:21:39	K: I am sorry, you can't ask questions after this I hope we will meet again.	克：抱歉，这次讲话之后你还不能马上提问。我希望我们会再次见面。
1:21:50	Q: Thank you.	问：谢谢。