克里希那穆提 - 第一次问答会

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR79Q1 - 第一次问答会
英国，布洛克伍德公园
1979年8月28日

0:33	There are about over 100 questions. From the most rather superficial to the most demanding, deeper questions. I wonder why we ask questions, not because we said we would have questions instead of dialogues, but why do we ask questions? And from whom do we expect an answer? If we put the right question, perhaps we should also get the right answer. And it becomes very difficult to answer all these hundred and over questions, so we chose some of them. Perhaps some of your questions may not be answered, because there are too many of them, and don't think we have chosen specially what suits me, what is most convenient for me to answer, because one can ask any kind of question that you want to ask - personal, impersonal, serious, or flippant. And we have more or less covered that ground in all these hundred questions.	大约有一百多个问题。从最肤浅的，到最具挑战性的，以及更深入的问题都有。我想知道我们为什么要提问，不是因为我们说过我们要进行问答而不是对话，而是我们为什么会问问题？我们又期望从谁那里得到答案？如果我们问出正确的问题，也许我们就能得到正确的答案。这一百多个问题都要回答就非常困难了，所以我们从中选出了一些。也许你们的某些问题没有被回答，因为问题太多了，而且不要以为我们特意选出了那些适合我回答的问题，我回答起来最方便的问题，因为你可以问你想问的任何问题 - 个人，非个人的，严肃的，或者轻浮的。在这一百多个问题里，我们所选择的问题基本上涵盖了这个范围。
2:35	We will try to answer some of these questions this morning, but please bear in mind, if I may remind you, that it is very easy to ask a question, but to listen to find out for yourself the right answer, one must be fairly inquisitive, fairly serious, fairly demanding. And in answering these questions, we are not the Oracle, either from Delphi, or from India, or from Washington. Or perhaps you would prefer from London. But please bear in mind that we are sharing the question together, that one may answer the question, but the very answering of it perhaps will awaken in each one one's own reaction, either you oppose it, or you accept it, or you deny it, or you say, 'Yes, it might be true.' We are investigating the question together. You understand? Together, therefore it's not I am answering, the speaker is answering, and you are just listening. We are together answering the question, though the speaker may put it into words, but we are sharing the question, we are sharing, partaking in the answer. I hope that's clear. Because it's such a lovely morning, so rarely happens in England - beautiful blue sky, lovely trees, and the lawns, and the generally clean air - to talk about very serious matters is rather trying. But the first question is:	今天上午我们会尽量回答其中的一些问题，但请记得，如果我可以提醒你的话，问问题是很容易的，但要聆听从而自己发现正确的答案，你就必须相当好问，相当认真，相当用心。在回答这些问题的过程中，我们不是先知，不管是来自特尔斐的，还是来自印度的，或者华盛顿的。或许你更喜欢来自伦敦的先知。但请铭记在心，我们是在一起共享问题，我可能会回答问题，但回答问题的过程本身，也许就会唤起我们每个人自身的反应，不管你是反对，还是接受，或者否定那回答，又或者你会说，“是的，可能确实如此。” 我们是在一起探究问题。明白吗？一起，因此不是我在回答，不是讲话者在回答，而你只是听着。我们是在一起回答问题，尽管是讲话者在诉诸语言，但我们是在共享问题，我们在分享，共同参与回答。我希望这点清楚了。因为这是一个如此美好的清晨，在英国简直太难得了 - 美丽的蓝天，可爱的树丛，草地，还有总体来说洁净的空气 - 这时来探讨非常严肃的事情是相当磨练人的。不过，我们来看第一个问题：
5:41	Is it possible ever to be free of self-centred activity? Is there a real self apart from the self-created image?	究竟能不能摆脱自我中心的活动？是否有一个脱离自我制造的意象的真我存在？
5:56	Is it possible ever to be free of self-centred activity? Is there a real self apart from the self-created image?	究竟能不能摆脱自我中心的活动？是否有一个脱离自我制造的意象的真我存在？
6:23	All right. I wonder what we mean by the self. If each one of us was asked to describe in words what is the self, the ego, the personality, the centre, the basis from which we act, from which we think, from which we feel, if each one of us could be clear, not only verbally as an idea, but actually, what is the self? If you ask somebody what is the self, they would say, 'It is all my senses, my feelings, my imagination, my romantic demands, my sense of having a house, a possession, a husband, a wife, my qualities, my struggles, my achievements, my ambitions, and so on, so on. Also my aspirations, my unhappiness, my joys, and so on' - all that would be the self. Would we agree to that? You can add more words to it, but the essence of it is this centre, the 'me': my house, my family, my wife, my children, my bank account, what my impulse is, 'I want to do this, I am impelled to go to India to find truth,' and so on, so on, so on. Would we agree to that, verbal description of what we call the self? Not only the verbal description, but the feeling, the 'me' and the 'you' - right? - 'we' and 'they,' in which all is included: nationalities, the family tradition, the name, the form, psychosomatic approach, and the intellectual capacity, the desire to have more clarity, and so on. The 'me' and the 'you,' 'we' and 'they' - right?	好的。我想知道我们说的自我是什么意思。如果要求我们每个人都用语言来描述什么是自己，自我，个性，那个中心，那个我们做出行动的基础，我们赖以思考的基础，我们感受的来源，如果我们每个人都能清楚这些，不只是在字面上将其作为一个想法弄清楚，而是切实地明白什么是自我？如果你问别人什么是自我，他们会说，“那是我所有的知觉，我的感受，我的想象，我浪漫的需求，我拥有一所房子的感觉，某种拥有感，有个丈夫，妻子，我的品质，我的奋斗，我的成就，我的抱负，等等，等等。还有我的渴望，我的不幸，我的快乐，等等” - 那一切就是自我。我们同意这点吗？你可以在其上添加更多的词语，但它的核心就是这个中心，这个“我”：我的房子，我的家庭，我的妻子，我的孩子，我的银行账户，我有怎样的冲动， “我想做这个，我迫切地想到印度去寻找真理，” 等等，等等，等等。我们同意这些吗？用语言描述的我们所谓的自我？不只是语言描述，而且还有感觉，“我”和“你”的感觉 - 对不对？- “我们”和“他们”，其中包括了这一切：国籍，家族传统，名与形，心理方法，智力，想要更清晰，等等。 “我”和“你”， “我们”和“你们”- 对不对？
10:01	And from this centre all action takes place. Right? All our aspirations, all our ambitions, our quarrels, our disagreements, our opinions, judgements, experiences, is centred in this. Right? Shall I go on? We are together so far, aren't we?	从这个中心产生了所有的活动。对吧？我们所有的渴望，我们所有的野心，我们的争吵，我们的分歧，我们的意见，评判，经验，都集中于此。对不对？我能继续吗？我们到现在还是在一起的，不是吗？
10:33	Not only the conscious self, acting outwardly, but also the deep inner consciousness, which is not open, obvious. Right? So all this is the 'me,' the 'I,' the ego, the person, the different levels of consciousness - all that is me. Right?	不只是有意识的自我，在向外活动着，而且还有深层的内在意识，那个意识不开放，不明显。对不对？所以这一切就是“我”， “我”，自我，这个人，各个层次的意识- 这一切就是我。对不对？
11:10	Now the questioner asks: is it possible to be free of this centre. Right? Why does one want to be free from this centre? Is it because the centre is the cause of division: me and you, my country and your country, my belief and your belief, my God and your God, and so on, so on. And where there is division there must be conflict. Right? Can we go on? That is, when the 'me' is the active element, that is operating all the time, in you and the same in me, with a different name, with a different colour, with a different job, with a different position, the hierarchical social structure - you are Lord so-and-so, somebody else is your servant, and so on - it is the same me dividing itself into different categories - right? - socially, economically, religiously. I think that is fairly clear.	现在提问者问：是否可能摆脱这个中心。对不对？为什么一个人想要摆脱这个中心？是不是因为这个中心是分别的根源：我和你，我的国家和你的国家，我的信仰和你的信仰，我的上帝和你的上帝，等等，等等。而哪里有分别，哪里就必然有冲突。对不对？我们能继续吗？也就是，当“我”是活跃的因素，一直在运作着，在你的内心，同样也在我的内心运作着，名字不同，肤色不同，工作不同，职位不同，这个等级化的社会结构 - 你是领主，如此这般，别人是你的奴仆，等等 - 我也是一样把自己划分为各个范畴 - 对不对？- 社会的，经济的，宗教的范畴。我想这相当清楚。
12:52	And one realises where there is division there must be conflict - the Hindu and the Muslim, the Jew and the Arab, the American and the English, the English and the French, the French and the German, the German, and so on, so on, so on. That is physically obvious. And that has brought about in the world tremendous wars, great agony for people, brutality, violence, right? The self identifying itself with an ideal, noble or ignoble ideals, and fighting for that ideal. But it is still the ego trip. Right? It is like those people who go to India, I don't know why, but they do, trying to find spirituality, and putting on a different fancy dress, and saying, 'I am going to find spiritual things there.' They have only changed the garb, the clothes, but they are essentially the 'me,' which is operating all the time, struggling, endeavouring, grasping, denying, deeply attached, deeply attached to one's experiences, to one's ideas, to one's opinions, to one's longings. Right?	而我们意识到哪里有分别哪里就必然有冲突 - 印度人和穆斯林，犹太人和阿拉伯人，美国人和英国人，英国人和法国人，法国人和德国人，德国人和等等，等等，等等。这点非常清楚。而这给世界带来了无数的战争，给人们带来了巨大的痛苦、残忍和暴力，对不对？自我让自己认同一个理想，高尚的或者卑微的理想，并为这个理想而战。但这仍然是自我的征程。对不对？就像那些去印度的人们，我不知道为什么，但他们确实去了，努力去寻找灵性，穿上别样的花哨衣服，说“我要去那里寻找精神事物。” 他们只是换了身袍子，衣服，本质上他们还是“我”， “我”一直在运作着，挣扎，努力，抓取，否认，深深执着，深深地执着于自己的经验，自己的想法，自己的观点，自己的渴望。对不对？
15:00	And as one lives, as one observes, this centre, this 'me' is the essence of all trouble and also all pleasure, all fear, all sorrow. So it says, 'How am I to get rid of this centre?' Is that clear? We can expand it more, but that is the essence of it. There are too many questions.	当一个人在生活中，当他观察到，这个中心，这个“我”，是所有麻烦的核心，也是所有欢愉、所有恐惧、所有悲伤的核心。于是它说，“我要如何摆脱这个中心？” 这清楚了吗？我们可以展开得更充分，但这就是它的核心。问题太多了。
15:31	So, is it possible, the questioner asks, to be really free, absolutely, not relatively, which is fairly simple. One can be a little unselfish, one can be a little concerned with social welfare, with others, and so on, but the centre is always there, biting hard, brutal. You all know this. So is it possible to be free of that centre.	所以，提问者问，可不可能，真的自由，绝对的，而不是相对的自由，那相当简单。一个人可以不太自私，一个人可以稍稍关注社会福利，关心别人，等等，但那个中心始终在那儿，无情地、残酷地噬咬着。这些你们都知道。那么，可不可能摆脱那个中心。
16:13	First of all, the more effort is made to be free of the centre, the more - please listen to this - the more one makes an effort to be free of the centre, that very effort strengthens the self. Right? Like those people who go off into meditation of various kinds, trying to impose something upon it, and that 'me' then captures that, identifies with that, and says, 'I have achieved,' but it's still the centre. Right?	首先，越努力摆脱那个中心，就会越- 请听好 - 一个人越努力摆脱这个中心，那努力本身反而加强了那个自我。对不对？就像那些跑去进行各种冥想的人们一样，试图对它施加某种影响，而那个“我”就抓住了这点，认同了它，然后说，“我成功了，” 但那还是那个中心。对不对？
17:11	So, please, first to understand whether it is possible to be free, there must be no effort. Right? Which doesn't mean doing what one likes. That is clear, isn't it? No? If one doesn't make an effort, then let's do what we like, which is still the movement of the self. Whether you put on a yellow robe, or a purple robe, or join a monastery, it is the self still, identified with an ideal and pursuing that ideal through great effort. But the movement is from the centre. I wonder if that is clear, isn't it?	所以，请注意，要想先弄清有没有可能自由，就必须没有任何努力。对不对？这并不表示我们可以为所欲为。这点很清楚，不是吗？不清楚？如果毫不努力，那么我们就为所欲为吧，那还是自我的活动。不管你穿上一件黄色的袍子，还是一件绿色的，或者到修道院去，那还是自我，认同某个理想，通过巨大的努力去追求那个理想。但那活动是来自那个中心的。我想知道这点是不是清楚了，清楚了吗？
18:09	So what is one to do? If you are not to make an effort, because you see the truth of it: that the more you make an effort, the greater the travail of the self. It is the self that is making an effort to be free of itself, and therefore it is still involved in it, imagining that it will be free, imagining that it will be, etc., etc. But it is still the activity of the centre, me. Then what is one to do?	那么我们该怎么办？如果你一点都不努力，因为你看到了其中的真理：你越努力，自我的痛苦就越大。恰恰是自我在努力摆脱它自己，因而依然深陷其中，想象着它能自由，想象着它会怎样怎样。但那还是那个中心，我的行为，那么他该怎么办？
18:59	Before we go into that, is there a real self apart from the self created by thought with its images? The questioner says. Is there a real self? Many people feel that. The Hindus have said there is the highest principle which is the Self. And we have imagined also, that there is a real self apart from the me. You all, I'm sure, feel that there is something else beyond this me, which is called the higher self, or the sublime self, or the supreme self. The moment we use the word 'self,' or use any word to describe that which is beyond the self, the 'me,' it's still the self. The first thing to realise is: is it possible to be free of the self? without becoming a vegetable, without becoming absent-minded, somewhat lunatic, and so on, so on, so on. Is it possible? Which means what? Is it possible to be totally free from attachment? That is one of the attributes, one of the qualities of the self, right? Right, sirs? I am attached to my reputation. I am attached to my name. I am attached to my experience. I am attached to what I have said, and so on. So, is it possible to be free from all attachments? Work it out, sirs. If you really want to be free of the self - no attachment. Which doesn't mean you become detached, indifferent, callous, shut yourself away, which is another form of the self, you understand? Before it was attached - attached - now it says, 'I won't be attached.' It is still the movement of the self. So, if a person is serious, really concerned, because the world is divided, is this: the 'me' and the 'you,' 'we' and 'they.' We - British, and they - French, or rather the Irish. The black and the white, and the brown. So is it possible, without effort, to be free of attachment, to your wife, to your children, to your name. You can't very well be detached from your bank account, if you have one; then the bank profits from it. But to be detached - you know what it means? Not to be identified with anything - with your country, with your God, with your... nothing! And therefore when you are really deeply, basically not attached, then from that deep sense of no attachment comes responsibility. Not responsibility to my wife, to my children, to my nephew, niece - the sense of responsibility. Right? Will you do it? That is the question. We can talk everlastingly, put it into different words, but when it comes to testing it, acting, we don't seem to want to do it. And so we prefer to go on as we are, status quo, slightly modified, but carry on, with our quarrels, you know, all the things that are happening in the world. And to be free from your own experience, from your own knowledge, from your own accumulated perception - you understand all this?	在我们深入这个问题之前，是否存在一个真我脱离了思想用意象制造出的自我？提问者这么说。存在一个真我吗？很多人都这么觉得。印度教徒说存在最高法则，那就是真我。我们也想象过，我之外还有个真我。你们所有人，我确信，都感觉有某种超越这个我的东西存在，被称为高我，或者大我，或者超我。我们使用”自我“这个词的那一刻，或者使用任何词语来描述那超越自我，超越“我”的东西时，那还是自我。要知道的第一件事就是：可不可能摆脱自我？而不变成一棵植物，不变得漫不经心，或者有些疯狂，等等，等等。这可能吗？那意味着什么？可不可能彻底从执着中解脱出来？执着正是自我的特性和品质之一，对不对？对吗，先生们？我执着于我的声誉。我执着于我的名字。我执着于我的经验。我执着于我说过什么，等等。所以，有没有可能摆脱所有的执着？弄清楚这点，先生们。如果你真的想摆脱自我的话 - 不要有执着。那并不意味着你变得无动于衷，漠不关心，冷酷，隔离你自己，那是自我的另一种形式，明白吗？之前它执着- 依附着 - 现在它说，“我不想执着了。” 这依然是自我的运动。那么，如果一个人是认真的，真的关心，因为这个世界被分裂了，变成了这样： “我”和“你”， “我们”和“你们”。我们 - 英国人，和他们 - 法国人，或者甚至是爱尔兰人。黑人和白人，还有棕色人种。所以，是否可能，毫不费力地，摆脱所有的执着，对你的妻子、你的孩子、对你名字的执着。你无法完全摆脱你的银行账户，如果你有的话；于是银行就从中渔利。但是，超脱- 你知道这意味着什么吗？不认同任何东西 - 不认同你的国家、你的上帝、你的...不认同任何东西！因此当你真正深刻地从根本上不执着时，那么从那种深深的不执着感中就产生了责任。不是对我的妻子、对我的孩子、对我的侄子、侄女的责任 - 而是责任感。对吗？你们会这么做吗？这就是问题所在。我们可以一直不停地谈下去，换种说法来讲，但是，当要检验这些，要行动时，我们似乎都不想这么去做。于是我们宁愿一如既往，保持现状，稍作修改，但是照旧我们的争吵，你知道，这个世界在发生着的那一切。要摆脱你自己的经验，你自己的知识，你自己积累起来的领悟 - 明白这一切吗？
25:46	So, it is possible if you go at it. And it doesn't take time. That is one of our excuses, that we must have time to be free. When you see one of the major factors of the self is attachment, and you see what it does in the world, and what it does in your relationship with another - separation and all the rest, ultimately quarrels, divorce, all the ugliness of relationship - if you see the truth of attachment, then that very truth is so, it is actual. Then you are free from it. Your own perception sets you free. Right? Will you do it?	所以，如果你这么去做，是有可能的。这也不需要花时间。时间是我们的借口之一，说我们必须得花时间取得自由。如果你看到自我的主要因素之一就是执着，你也看到了它对这个世界做了什么，在你与别人的关系中产生了怎样的影响 - 分离以及其他的一切，最终是争吵、离婚、关系中那一切丑陋的事情 - 如果你看到了执着的真相，那么那真相本身就是如此，它是真实的。那么你就从中解脱了出来。你自己的觉察解放了你。对不对？你会这么做吗？
27:01	These are the most crazy questions!	这些是最疯狂的问题！
27:06	Will the practice of yoga, as it is being done in Europe and America, help to bring about a spiritual awakening? Is it true that yoga will awaken deeper energy, which is called kundalini?	练习瑜伽，正如它在欧洲和美国所盛行的那种做法，是不是有助于带来精神上的觉醒？瑜伽真的能唤醒更深层的能量，即所谓的昆达里尼吗？
27:29	May I read it once more? It's not necessary?	我可以再读一遍吗？有必要吗？
27:35	Q:No. K:Right?	问：没有。克：是吧？
27:43	From the sublime to the ridiculous.	从最高层次的到最荒唐的问题都有。
27:56	The so-called yoga, which the West, and part of the East in India, was invented about the 17th and 18th century, the exercises, in order not only to have a very good body, healthy body, through force - you understand? - through discipline, through control, in order to awaken so-called higher energy. 17th, 18th century. The real Yoga, which is called Raja Yoga, King of Yogas, is to lead a highly moral life, not morality according to circumstances, according to culture, but true ethical activity in life - not to hurt, not to drink, not to drug yourself, right amount of sleep, right amount of food, clear thinking, and acting morally, doing the right thing. I won't go into all that, what is right and wrong. They never mentioned, as far as I understand, after talking with a great many scholars, they never mentioned about exercise. They say exercise normally - walk, swim, all that, but their emphasis was a very moral life, a mind which is active.	所谓的瑜伽，是印度的西部和东部的某些地区，在大约17和18世纪发明出来的，这些运动，不仅仅为有个非常好的身体，健康的身体，通过力量- 明白吗？- 通过训练，通过控制，以便唤醒所谓更高的能量。在17、18世纪。真正的瑜伽，被称为拉加瑜伽，王瑜伽，是过一种高度道德的生活，不是根据环境而定的，也不是依据文化而定的道德，而是指生活中真正道德的行为 - 不去伤害，不饮酒，不用药物麻醉自己，适量的睡眠，适量的食物，清洁的饮水，并道德地行动，做正确的事情。我不会深入讲那些的，什么是对和错。他们从未提到过，就我所了解的，跟许多学者讨论过这个问题后，他们从不提运动。他们说的运动通常是指 -走路，游泳，那一些，但是一种非常道德的生活才是他们的重点，一个活跃的头脑。
30:16	And modern yoga... The meaning of the word you all know, you probably know. I have talked to the scholars too and they say it doesn't quite mean that, which is to join. The meaning of the word 'yoga' is to join, join the higher with the lower, or the lower with the higher. You understand? And modern yoga... I don't know why I am talking about all this nonsense! I don't know why they call it yoga, it should be called just exercise, but that wouldn't appeal to you! You have to pay money to learn yoga, to breathe properly, and all that. You can practise yoga, the exercises of different kinds. The speaker has done some of it, for years, taught by the experts; fortunately, they didn't charge, because they also thought I was an expert. Sorry! (Laughter) I am not an expert, and so they soon deserted me! Or I deserted them, whichever way...	而现代瑜伽... 这个词的含义你们都知道，你们可能知道。我跟学者们也探讨过，他们说这个词的意思并不是那些，而是加入的意思。 “瑜伽”这个词的含义是加入，高者加入低者，或者低者加入高者。明白吗？而现代瑜伽... 我不知道我为什么在说这些无稽之谈！我不知道他们为什么称之为瑜伽，应该只把它叫做运动才对，但这么说的话就不会吸引你了！你得花钱去学瑜伽，学习正确地呼吸，以及那一切。你可以练习瑜伽，那是一种不同的运动方式。讲话者也做一些瑜伽，做了很多年，专家们教的；幸运的是，他们不收费，因为他们认为我也是个专家。对不起！（笑声）我不是个专家，所以他们很快就抛弃了我！或者我抛弃了他们，怎么说都行...
32:35	Sirs, you can do this kind of yoga, exercise for the rest of your life - you won't awaken spiritual insight, nor will the awakening of a higher energy come into being. You know, in the East they have a word for this called kundalini. Some of you probably have read or been caught in that word. But most of the people, as far as I have discussed with them, who have gone into this matter very deeply, they are always quoting somebody else, back to the original mischief-maker. Sorry. (Laughter) And none of them - please, believe me - none of them have awakened this thing. They talk about it. They feel certain experiences, which they call by this name. I have discussed with them very seriously, and what they are talking about is a certain form of increasing energy to do more mischief. I mean that. By eating the right food, by control, by breathing properly, etc., etc., etc., you have more energy, naturally. And that gives you a sense of superiority, and you are enlightened, and so on.	先生们，你们可以做这种瑜伽，为了余生的健康而运动 - 你们不会因此唤醒灵性上的洞察力，也无法唤醒更高层次的能量生成。你们知道，在东方他们对此有个词叫昆达里尼。你们中的一些人可能读到过或者受困于这个词中。但对于大多数人来说，就与我讨论过的那些人来说，他们非常深入地研究过这件事情，他们总是引用别人说过的话，追溯到恶作剧的始作俑者。对不起。（笑声）他们中没有一个人- 请相信我 - 没有一个人唤醒了这个东西。他们谈论它。他们感受到某种体验，他们将其称为这个名字。我非常认真地和他们探讨过，他们所谈的那些东西只是以某种形式增加能量来制造更多的恶作剧。我真的是这个意思。通过摄取正确的食物，通过控制，通过正确的呼吸，等等，等等，等等，你自然会有更多的能量。而这会给你一种优越感，你开悟了，等等。
34:40	But there is a different form of... I won't go into it because you are all eager, I am not touching it. That can only happen when the self is not. Then there is a totally different kind of energy to keep the mind fresh, young, alive, and that can only come when there is absolutely no sense of the self. Right? Obviously. Because the self, the 'me,' the centre, is in constant conflict. Right? Wanting, not wanting, creating dualities, opposing desires, this constant struggle that's going on. As long as that struggle is going on there is a wastage of energy, obviously. When that struggle is not, there is a totally different kind of energy taking place. Right?	但有另一种形式的... 我不会深入讲这个的，因为你们都太迫切了，我不会碰这个问题。那只有在没有自我的时候才能发生。那时就有了一种完全不同的能量，能让头脑保持清新、年轻、活跃，只有完全没有自我感的时候，才能产生那样的能量。对不对？很明显。因为自我，“我”，这个中心，处于不停的冲突中。对不对？想要，不想要，制造二元，矛盾的欲望，这种不停上演着的挣扎。只要还有这样的挣扎，就会浪费能量，显然如此。当这种挣扎不在了，才会有一种截然不同的能量产生。对不对？
36:22	There is the story of a man, a philosopher, or a patriarch, who was a well-known teacher. And a disciple came to him and said, 'Master, teach me how to meditate.' So he sat up in the right position, you know, and closed his eyes, and began to breathe very deeply trying to capture the higher webs, and vibrations, and all the rest of it. So the Master picks up two pieces of stone and rubs them, keeps on rubbing them. And the disciple opens his eyes and says, 'Master, what are you doing?' He said, 'I am trying to make out of these stones a mirror so that I can look at myself,' and the disciple says, 'Master, you can never do that.' He said, 'In the same way, my friend, you can sit like that and breathe like that forever, but you will never...' Got it?	有个故事讲一个人，一个哲学家，或者主教，他是个著名的老师。有个弟子来找他，说，“老师，请教我如何冥想。” 于是他以正确的姿势坐着，你知道的，闭上眼睛，开始深呼吸，努力捕捉更高的场以及感应，还有其他的那一切。于是老师捡起两块石头，摩擦它们，不停地摩擦。弟子睁开眼睛说， “老师，你在干什么？” 他说，“我在用这些石头里做一面镜子，这样我就能照见自己，” 然后弟子说， “老师，你做不到的。” 他说，“同样地，我的朋友，你可以永远那样坐着，那样呼吸，但你永远无法...”明白了吗？
37:46	Can there be absolute security for man in this life?	人在一生中能否有绝对的安全？
37:53	Can there be absolute security for man, and naturally woman, in this life?	对人来说，当然也包括女人，这一生中能有绝对的安全吗？
38:07	This is a very serious question, because we all want security, both physical and principally psychological. If you are psychologically secure, certain, then we might not be so concerned with physical security.	这是个非常严肃的问题，因为我们都想要安全，不仅是身体上的更主要的是心理上的安全。如果你在心理上是安全的，确定的，那么我们也许就不会那么关注身体上的安全了。
38:42	The search for psychological security - please follow this - the search for psychological security is preventing physical security. We'll go into this. The questioner says: is there absolute security for us, for human beings? We will answer that at the end, but follow it step by step.	对心理安全的追求 - 请跟上这点 - 对心理安全的追求会妨碍身体安全。我们会深入这点。提问者说：我们是否有绝对的安全，人类有吗？我们最后会回答这个问题，但先一步步跟上。
39:26	We must have security. Right? Like a child hanging on to its mother, the child must feel secure, otherwise something goes wrong. They have found this. If the mother and the father don't pay enough attention to the baby, give it all affection, etc., etc., it affects the brain, the nerves of the baby, of the child. So it must have security, physical security.	我们必须有安全。对不对？就像孩子要紧跟着母亲，孩子必须感觉到安全，否则就会出问题。他们发现了这点。如果母亲和父亲没有给予婴儿足够的关注，没有给它所有的慈爱，等等，等等，就会影响孩子的大脑，影响那婴儿、那孩子的神经系统。所以必须有安全，身体安全。
40:11	And why do we demand psychological security? Do you understand the difference between the two? There is the psyche demanding security and the physical demanding security. Right? This is obvious. Now, is there psychological security at all? We want it, we want security in our relationship. Right? My wife, my children, a sense of family unit. That unit is now breaking up. In that there is a certain security, psychologically. Right? So one is attached to the wife, or to the girl, right? So in that attachment there is security at least we think there is security. And when there is no security in that person, we soon break away from it and find it in another. Right? This is happening. And we try to find security in a group, in the tribe; that glorified tribe is the nation. Right? No? I am glad. And the nation against another nation - you follow? So, seeking security psychologically in a person, in a country, in a belief, in your own experience - all these are forms of wanting, demanding security as one demands physical security. Right?	那我们为什么需要心理安全呢？明白这两者的区别吗？心灵需要安全，身体也需要安全。对不对？很明显。那么，到底有心理安全吗？我们想要它，我们想要关系中的安全。对不对？我的妻子，我的孩子，对家庭单元的感觉。这个单元正在崩塌。家庭中有某种安全，心理上的。对不对？所以一个人就执着于妻子，或者女友，对不对？在那执着中就有安全，至少我们认为有安全。当那个人身上没有了安全感的时候，我们很快就离开他去另一个人那里寻找。对不对？有这种事。我们也试图在团体中找到安全，在部落中；美化了的部落就是国家。对不对？不对？我很高兴。这个国家对抗别的国家 - 明白吗？所以，寻求心理上的安全，从一个人身上，从国家中，从信仰中，从你自己的经验中 - 所有这些都是欲望的形式，想要安全，就像一个人需要身体安全一样。对不对？
42:50	Please, we are sharing this together, you are not just listening to me. We are together examining if there is security for us, human beings. And demanding the psychological security, we have divided ourselves. Right? The Hindu, the Muslim, the Jew, the Arab, the Christian, non-Christian, the believer in Jesus, the believer in something else - in all this there is the demand for security. And this security has been found in illusions. Right? Do you accept that? Right? Being secure in Catholicism, hold yourself tight. In Buddhism, in Hinduism, in Judaism, Islam, and so on - you follow? That has created an illusory security, because they are fighting each other. I wonder if you see this? Do you see? The moment you see it, you don't belong to anything.	请注意，我们是在一起共享这个问题，你不只是听我说。我们是在一起审视对我们、对人类来说是否有安全。因为需要心理安全，我们就划分我们自己。对不对？划分成印度人、穆斯林、犹太人、阿拉伯人、基督徒、非基督徒、信奉耶稣者、信奉别的东西的人 - 这一切中都有对安全的渴望。从幻觉中找到了这安全。对不对？你们接受这点吗？对不对？加入天主教就安全了，紧紧抱守着你自己。在佛教中，在印度教中，在犹太教、伊斯兰教等等中- 明白吗？这制造了一种虚幻的安全，因为他们在恐吓彼此。不知道你们有没有看到这一点？看到了吗？你看到这点的那一刻，就不再属于任何东西了。
44:32	So wait a minute. So the demand is for security. It may be in illusion, in superstition, in a ritual, in a dogma, in a nation, in an economic system, in totalitarianism, in... what's the word... in being safe, secure, economically, like in America, completely safe, at least they think they are. So, the desire for security not only creates illusion, because it is an illusion - isn't it? - to belong to a tribe, or belonging to some church. So, one finds security in illusions, in actualities - in a furniture, in a house, in a person. None of these, as you observe, give man security, because you have had two terrible wars, you haven't had... - you follow? You want security, but you create wars which destroy your own security.	等一下。所以有对安全的渴望。这安全或许存在于在幻觉中，迷信中，仪式中，教条中，国家中，经济体制中，极权主义中，还有... 那个词是什么来的... 经济上安全，有保障，像美国一样，彻底安全，至少他们觉得自己安全。所以，对安全的欲望不仅制造了幻觉，因为那就是个幻觉- 不是吗？- 属于一个部落，或者属于某个教会。所以，人在幻觉中找到安全，在实物中- 在家具中，在房子里，在一个人身上找到安全。正如你观察到的，其中的任何一个都无法带给人类安全，因为你们有过两次可怕的战争，你们没有...- 明白吗？你们想要安全，但你们制造了战争，这破坏了你们自己的安全。
46:31	So, when you see the truth that the mind, or thought, has sought out security in illusions - right? - the very perception that you are seeking security in illusion, that very perception of that brings you intelligence. Right? Are you following this? Are you following this? Please don't... unless I make it perfectly clear, don't agree with me. I sought security in my belief as being a Hindu with all the nonsensical superstitions, and gods, and rituals, and all the nonsense that goes on. I sought security in that - I haven't, but suppose one does. That opposes another group of people who have different ideas, different gods, different rituals - Catholic, and all the rest of it. So these are the two opposing elements, tolerated, but they are antagonistic, essentially. So there is conflict between the two, in which I have sought security, in one or the other. Right? And I realise, 'By Jove, they are both illusions, in which I have tried to find security, right? And to see that they are illusions is intelligence. It's like seeing danger. A man who is blind to danger is an idiot, is neurotic, there is something wrong with him. But we don't see the danger of this. Right? And the man who sees the danger... - intelligence is in operation. In that intelligence there is absolute security. You get it? Do you understand this?	所以，当你看到了这个真相，也就是，头脑或者思想，在幻觉中寻找安全 - 对不对？- 觉察到你在幻觉中寻找安全，对这点的觉察本身就给你带来了智慧。对不对？明白这点了吗？你们了解这点了吗？请不要... 除非我说的非常清楚了，否则不要同意我。我在作为一个印度人的信念中寻找安全，怀揣着所有那些无稽的迷信和诸神，还有仪式，这一切的荒唐事在上演。我在其中寻找安全- 我并没有，只是假设有个人这样。这样就会反对另一群人，他们有不同的理念、不同的众神、不同的仪式- 天主教的，诸如此类的一切。所以就有了两个对立的因素，互相容忍，但它们从根本上是对抗的。于是两者之间就有了冲突，而我就在其中寻找安全，或此或彼。对不对？于是我意识到，“老天，它们都是幻象，我还想从中找到安全”，对不对？看到它们是幻象，这就是智慧。就像看到危险一样。对危险视而不见的人是白痴，是神经质的，他某个地方出了问题。但我们没有看到其中的危险。对不对？看到危险的人... - 智慧就运作了。在那智慧中就有绝对的安全。明白了吗？这点你们懂了吗？
49:08	That is, the mind... thought has created various forms of illusions: nationality, class, me and you, different gods, different beliefs, different dogmas, different rituals, the extraordinary religious superstitions that pervade the world - in all that one has sought security. And one doesn't see the danger of this security, of this illusion. When one sees the danger, not as an idea, but an actual fact, that intelligence is the supreme form of absolute security. Right? Are we together? Are you intelligent? (Laughter) Otherwise we miss it. You may say, 'I don't believe in any religions, I have no beliefs, I have no this, I have no that,' but the 'me' is in operation, which has created all this, and you are opposing all that by another word, another belief, another idea.	也就是，头脑... 思想制造了各种各样的幻觉：国籍，阶级，我和你，各种神，各种信仰，各种教条，各种仪式，还有巨大的宗教迷信在世界上泛滥 - 人在这一切中寻找着安全。却看不到这安全的危险，这幻觉的危险。如果一个人看到了这危险，不是作为一个想法，而是真切地看到了这个事实，那智慧就是绝对安全的最高形式。对不对？我们在一起吗？你智慧了吗？（笑声）否则我们就错过了。你也许会说， “我不相信任何宗教，我也没有信仰，我没有这个，我没有那个，” 但是“我”还在运作，制造了这一切，而你在用别的言辞，别的信仰，别的观念来反对这一切。
50:51	So, there is absolute security, which means to see the truth in the false. Got it? I wonder if you see this?	所以，存在绝对的安全，那意味着从谬误中看到真理。明白了吗？我不知道你们明白了这点没有？
51:30	Emotions are strong. Our attachments are strong. How does looking and seeing reduce the strength and power of these emotions?	情感很强烈。我们的执着很强烈。观察并看到怎样能减弱这些情感的强度和力量？
51:54	Emotions are strong. Our attachments are strong. How does looking and seeing reduce the strength and power of these emotions?	情感很强烈。我们的执着很强烈。观察并看到怎样能减弱这些情感的强度和力量？
52:10	Right? Can we go on with that question? Trying to control, suppress, sublimate emotions and attachments in no way reduces the conflict, does it? Clear? Are we generally aware of our emotions? Are we aware of our attachments, which say emotions are very strong, attachments are very strong, are we aware of that? Do you know that you are attached? Go on, sirs, find out. Are you attached strongly? And are your emotions so extraordinarily strong that they act? So first one has to be conscious, aware, know, recognise, see that your emotions are strong. And know also, be aware, recognise that you are attached. If that is so, when you are so conscious, what takes place? Do you understand my question?	对吗？我们可以接着讲这个问题吗？试图控制、压抑、升华情感和执着，都无法减少冲突，不是吗？清楚了？通常我们能觉察到我们的情感吗？我们是否觉察到了我们的执着，提问者说情感很强烈，执着很强烈，我们发现这点了吗？你知道你有执着吗？继续，先生们，弄清楚。你有强烈的依赖吗？你的情感是否太过强烈以致于总是付诸行动？所以我们首先得意识到、觉察到、知道、认识到、看到我们的情感很强大。同时也知道、觉察到、认识到你是有执着的。如果确实如此，当你非常清醒时，会发生什么？你们明白我的问题吗？
54:20	I am conscious of my attachment, or my strong emotions of hate, jealousy, antagonism, like and dislike, I am conscious of them. Right? Are you? Please, we are sharing this together. Now, do they, being so strong, overshadow, control my action? You understand? I am examining, looking, observing the emotions and attachments, which are apparently very strong, and they act as barriers to clear thinking, to clear action, to unconfused thinking. So am I aware of them? Or we take it for granted? You follow my question? Say, 'Yes, I have very strong emotions, I'm terribly attached, but it doesn't matter. That's part of life. I don't mind struggling. I don't mind having quarrels with everybody.' There is a lovely joke, but I won't go into it! (Laughter)	我意识到了我的执着，或者我强烈的情感、仇恨、嫉妒、敌对、好恶，我意识到了这些。对吗？你们意识到了吗？请注意，我们是在一起共享这个问题。现在，它们是否那么强烈以致于掌控支配了我的行为？明白吗？我在审视、注视、观察情感和执着，很明显这些都非常强烈，它们阻碍了清晰的思考、清晰的行动、不困惑的思考。那么我觉察到这些了吗？还是我们把它们看作理所当然的了？你们跟上我的问题了吗？你说，“是的，我有很强烈的情感，我深深执着，但是没关系。那是生活的一部分。我不介意挣扎。我不介意和每个人都争吵。” 有个很好玩的笑话，但是我就不说了！（笑声）
56:08	So are we aware of them? Now, if you are aware, what takes place? Please examine yourself. You are attached. Are you aware that you are attached? Just aware. You know that you are attached to that person, or to that piece of furniture, or to a belief, to a dogma, you know, all the rest of it, attached to something. Now, when you say you are aware, what do you mean by that? Know, recognise. Is thought recognising the attachment? You follow? Say yes, when you say, 'Yes, I'm attached,' is it the activity of thought that says, 'I am attached'? You follow? Go into this, please, with me for a few minutes. Pay attention. Please, sir, quiet.	所以我们觉察到它们了吗？现在，如果你觉察到了，那么会发生什么？请你自己来检视。你执着。你知道你执着吗？只是觉察。你知道你依恋那个人，或依恋那件家具，或某个信念某个教条，你知道的，诸如此类的一切，执着某物。现在，当你说你觉察到了，你那么说是什么意思？知道，认识到。是思想认出了执着吗？你们跟上了吗？说是的，当你说，“是的，我执着，” 是不是思想的活动在说， “我执着”？明白吗？请深入进去，和我一起深入几分钟。注意。请安静，先生。
57:21	When you say, 'I'm attached,' is it an idea? Or is it a fact? The fact is not the idea. This microphone... I can create an idea of it, but that is a fact. I can touch, see. Right? So, is my attachment a concept? A conclusion? Or is it a fact that I am attached? You see the difference? Do you? Please. So, when you are observing the fact, not the idea, not the conclusion about the fact, but the fact, and you are aware of it, is the fact different from you who are observing the fact? You are following all this? I hope your minds are all active. It is clear, isn't it? Am I observing the fact through an idea, or through a conclusion? Or I have heard somebody say that - you follow? - and therefore I look, which means I am looking through a screen of ideas. So I am not looking at the fact.	当你说“我依恋”，那是个想法吗？还是个事实？事实不是观念。这个麦克风... 我可以制造出关于它的一个观念，但那是个事实。我能触摸，能看到。对不对？那么，我的执着是个概念吗？是个结论吗？还是我的执着是个事实？你看到了其中的不同吗？看到了吗？拜托你们了。那么，当你看到了这个事实，而不是关于这事实的想法或者结论，而是事实，你觉察到了这点，那么，这事实是否不同于正在观察事实的那个你？这些都听得明白吗？希望你们的头脑都是活跃的。清楚了，不是吗？我是不是在通过一个观念来观察事实，或者通过一个结论？又或者我曾听别人这么说过- 明白吗？- 然后我去看，那就意味着我是在透过一个充满观念的屏幕在看。所以我不是在看事实。
59:21	So I am looking now at the fact. I'm not verbalising the fact, I'm looking at it. How do I look at it? As something separate from me - you understand? Attachment - something different from me, or that is part of me? Do you understand? Don't go to sleep, please. If you want to sleep, sleep, but if you are serious for a few minutes, see this fact. That is, am I looking as though it was something apart from me? The microphone is apart from me, but attachment, emotions are part of me. Attachment is the 'me.' If I have no attachment, there is no 'me.' So awareness of your emotions and attachments are part of your nature, part of your structure. So you are looking at yourself, so there is no division, there is no duality, me and attachment. There is only attachment, not the word, but the fact, the feeling, the emotions, the possessions, the possessiveness in attachment. That's a fact. So that is me.	那么现在我在看着事实。我不把事实语言化，我在看着它。我如何看它？把它作为与我分离的东西 - 明白吗？- 执着 - 某种不同于我的东西，还是那就是我的一部分？明白吗？不要睡觉，拜托。如果你们想睡觉，那就睡吧，但如果你能认真几分钟，看看这个事实。也就是，我是在看某种好像与我分离的东西吗？麦克风与我是分开的，但执着、情感是我的一部分。执着就是“我”。如果我没有执着，就没有“我”。所以觉察到你的情感和执着是你的本质、你的结构的一部分。这时你看着自己，那里就没有分裂，没有我和执着的二分。只有执着，不是语言，而是事实，感受，情感，归属，执着中的占有感。这是个事实。那就是我。
1:01:32	So what am I to do with the 'me'? You understand? Now please follow this step by step. If you get tired, or if you are distracted, be distracted, but come back. So, when there was division between me and attachment I could do something about it, right? Do you follow this? I could control it, I could say, 'No, I mustn't be,' or suppress it, or do something about it all the time, right? Which we do. But if it is me, what can I do? Wait, wait. Follow it closely. If it is me, what can I do? I can't do anything, can I? I can only observe. Do you see the difference? Before I acted upon it. Now I can't act upon it, because it is me, it is my arm, it is part of me. So all that I can do is to observe. Right? So, observation becomes all important, not what you do about it. You see the difference?	那么我要拿这个“我”怎么办？明白吗？现在请一步步地跟上这点。如果你累了，或者如果你走神了，那就走神吧，但是得回来。那么，如果我和执着之间有分别，我就能对它做点什么，对不对？这点明白吗？我能控制它，我能说， “不，我不能这样，”或者压抑它，或者总是对它做点什么，对不对？我们确实这么做。但如果那就是我，我能怎么办？等等，等等。紧紧跟上。如果它就是我，我能怎么办？我什么也做不了，是不是？我只能观察。你看到其中的不同了吗？以前我会有所行动。现在我无法对它采取行动，因为它就是我，就是我的肢体，就是我的一部分。所以我能做的一切只有观察。对不对？所以，观察就变得无比重要，而不是你对它做点什么。你看到其中的不同了吗？
1:03:09	So there is observation, not 'I am observing.' There is only observation. In that observation, if I begin to choose and say, 'I mustn't be attached,' I've already moved away in saying that's not me. You understand all this? So, in observation there is no choice, there is no direction, just pure, absolute clear observation. Then the thing that is being observed dissolves. Before you resisted it, you controlled it, you suppressed it, you acted upon it. Now in that observation all energy is centred. It is only when there is the lack of energy there is attachment. I wonder if you see this? Do you see this?	所以就有了观察，而不是“我在观察”。只有观察。在那观察中，如果我开始选择并且说，“我不能执着，” 在说那不是我的时候，我就已经没在观察了。明白这一切了吗？所以，在观察中没有选择，没有方向，只有纯然的、绝对清晰的观察。然后被观察之物就消失了。以前你抗拒它，你控制它，你压抑它，你有所行动。如今在那观察中所有的能量都集中到了一起。只有在缺乏能量的时候才有执着。我想知道你们明白这点了吗？你们看到这点了吗？
1:04:31	That is, when there is complete observation without any interference of thought, because you are observing. Why should thought come in? You understand the point? You are just observing the fly, the thing that you call the fly - just observe. In the same way to observe so completely your emotions, attachments, then there is a gathering of all energy in that observation. Therefore there is no attachment. I explained very carefully, it's only the unintelligent that are attached. It's only the people who do not see the full implications of attachment that are attached. And they pervade the world, they are the stronger element in the world, and we are caught in that. But when you begin to examine this closely, look at it, then you're no longer caught in that, so you are no longer dissipating energy in something which has no meaning, naturally. So your energy is now centred completely in observation, therefore there is total dissipation of attachment. Test it, do it, and you will find out. But you have to go step by step, don't jump into something or other. You have to examine the thing very, very, very closely, so that your mind is absolutely clear in the observation. Right? It is only the unaware that jump over the cliff. The moment you are aware of danger, move. Attachment is a danger, because it breeds fear, anxiety, hate, jealousy, being possessed and being not possessed - the whole of that - that is a tremendous danger. And when you see danger you act, not 'you act' - there is action.	也就是，当有全然的观察时，没有思想的任何干扰，因为你在观察。思想怎么会进来呢？你明白这点吗？你只是在观察那只苍蝇，那个你称之为苍蝇的东西- 只是观察。同样，如此彻底地观察你的情感、执着，那么在那观察中就集中起了所有的能量。因而就没有了执着。我解释得非常仔细，只有不智者才会执着。只有那些没有看到执着的全部内涵的人才会执着。而他们遍布世界，他们是世界上更强有力的因素，于是我们就困在了其中。但当你开始仔细地检视这些，观察它，你就不再受困于其中了，那么你就不再把能量耗散在毫无意义的事情上了，自然如此。现在你的能量就完全集中在了观察中，因而就完全驱散了执着。检验它，去行动，你会发现的。但你得一步步来，不要一下跳到某件事或别的事上去。你得非常非常仔细地检视这件事，这样你的头脑就在观察中变得彻底清晰了。对不对？只有不觉察的人才会去跳崖。你觉察到危险的那一瞬，自会行动。执着是种危险，因为它滋生了恐惧、焦虑、仇恨、嫉妒，被占有和不被占有 - 那一切 - 那是巨大的危险。而当你看到危险，你会行动，不是“你行动”- 只有行动。
1:07:57	Why does the mind so readily accept trivial answers to such deeply felt problems?	为什么头脑如此容易接受琐碎的答案来解答这么深切感受到的问题？
1:08:09	Why does the mind so readily accept trivial answers to such deeply felt problems?	为什么头脑如此容易接受琐碎的答案来解答这么深切地感受到的问题？
1:08:20	Right? The questioner says, why do I accept trivial explanation when a deep problem is concerned? You understand? Why do I live in words? That is the real problem. You understand? Why have words become so colossally important? No? Look, I suffer, go through great agonies. And you come along and give me explanations, and in that explanation I seek comfort. There's God, there's reincarnation, there's this, there's that, there is something else. So I accept the word, because it gives me comfort. The explanation gives me comfort, the belief gives me comfort when I am in agony, in anxiety. So, explanations by philosophers, by analysts, by psychologists, by the priests, by the yoga teachers, explanations - it is on that we live, which means we live second-hand. We are second-hand people, and we are satisfied with that. You use the word 'God' to a Catholic, or to a man who believes in Jesus - you follow? - the word, the image, which word is a symbol, the image is a symbol. So symbols become extraordinarily important, like the flag. Oh, sirs, you don't face all this.	对吗？提问者说，为什么我接受琐碎的解释，在涉及一个深刻的问题时？明白吗？为什么我生活在词语中？这是真正的问题。你们明白吗？为什么语言变得如此重要？不是吗？看，我受苦，经历了巨大的痛苦。你过来给了我一番解释，我从那番解释中寻找慰藉。有上帝，有转世，有这个，有那个，还有别的。于是我接受了这些话，因为它给了我安慰。解释给了我安慰，信念给我安慰，在我痛苦、焦虑的时候。所以，哲学家们的解释，分析师们、心理学家们、牧师们、瑜伽老师们给出了解释- 我们赖此为生，这就意味着我们二手地活着。我们是二手的人类，而且我们满足于此。你对一个天主教徒使用“上帝”这个词，或者对一个相信耶稣的人- 明白吗？- 词语，意象，词语是符号，意象也是符号。于是符号变得格外重要，就像旗帜一样。噢，先生们，你们不面对这一切。
1:10:45	Why does the mind do this? Is it because we read a great deal of what other people have said? You understand? We listen to what other people have said, we see in the cinema what is taking place - others. Always somebody else out there telling me what to do. So my mind is crippled by this. So I'm always living second-hand. Goodness. You understand, sirs?	头脑为什么这么做？是不是因为我们读了很多别人说过的话？明白吗？我们听了别人怎么说，我们在电影院里看到了发生的一切 - 还有别的。总是有别人来告诉我们该怎么办。所以我的头脑被这些弄残废了。所以我总是二手地活着。老天。明白吗，先生们？
1:11:52	And we have never asked: can I be a light to myself? You understand? Not the light of someone else, including Jesus, or Buddha, or somebody else. Can I be a light to myself? Which means no shadow. You understand? Because to be a light to oneself means it's never put out, by any artificial means, by circumstances, by sorrow, by accident and incidents - a light. Can one be that to oneself? One can only be that to oneself when your mind has no challenge, because it is so fully awake. But most of us need challenges, because most of us are asleep. We are asleep because we have been put to sleep by all the philosophers, by all the saints, by all the gods, and priests, and politicians. Right? We have been put to sleep. And we don't know we are asleep, we think this is normal. So a man who wants to be a light to himself has to be free of all this. And the light to oneself can only take place when there is no self. Then that light is the eternal, everlasting, immeasurable light. Right, sirs.	我们从不问：我能成为自己的光吗？明白吗？不是别人的光芒，包括耶稣，或者佛陀，或者别的人。我能做自己的光吗？那意味着没有阴影。明白吗？因为做自己的光意味着永不熄灭，不会被任何人为手段，不会被环境、被悲伤、被意外事故所熄灭- 一盏灯。一个人能做自己的光吗？只有当你的头脑没有挑战的时候你才能成为自己的光，因为它是完全清醒的。但我们大多数人都需要挑战，因为我们大多数人都睡着了。我们睡着了是因为我们被催眠了，被所有的哲学家、所有的圣人、所有的神明和牧师、还有政客催眠了。对不对？我们被催眠了。我们不知道我们睡着了，我们以为这很正常。所以一个想要成为自己的光的人必须摆脱这一切。只有当没有自我时，才能成为自己的光。那时那光就是永恒的、持久的、不可衡量的光。好了，先生们。
1:14:14	Could we go on with these questions instead of dialogues, discussions?	我们能继续这种问答而不是对话或讨论的形式吗？
1:14:20	Q:Yes. K:I thought so. I do all the talking and you... I hope not.	问：好的。克：我想是这样的。我来说所有的话，而你们... 我希望不是这样。