Krishnamurti Subtitles home


BR79T3 - 一个人能彻底地了解自己吗？
第三次公开讲话
英国，布洛克伍德公园
1979年9月1日



0:51 May we continue with what we were talking about last Sunday and go on further into it? 可否继续 我们上周日谈的内容 并继续深入一些？
1:17 We were saying, weren't we, that the human mind and our way of living is so fragmented, broken up, and because human beings are so, thus we make the world into what it is: a chaotic, cruel, confused, frightened world. And we were also saying that self-awareness, that is, to know all about oneself, both the conscious as well as the unconscious, the deep down and the open mind, so that in knowing oneself, completely, - and it is possible to know oneself completely - then we can approach the world and ourselves as a whole. Our life, as it is now lived, of which we know very little about ourselves, and perhaps the psychologists, the therapists and the psychoanalysts tell us what we are, but to find out what we are we can't listen to them, because they are like us, equally confused, equally uncertain, equally frightened in various different ways. So one has to rely completely on oneself and not look to another to tell us what to do, including the speaker, naturally. 我们说过，不是吗， 人类的头脑 和我们的生活方式是如此支离破碎， 因为人类确实如此， 所以我们把世界变成了现在这个样子： 一个混乱的、 残忍的、 困惑的、 恐惧的世界。 我们也说过 自我觉察， 也就是，了解自己的一切， 不仅是有意识的， 还有无意识的， 深藏的和显露的意识， 这样， 在对自己的彻底了解中， - 彻底了解自己是可能的 - 那么我们就能将世界 和我们自己作为一个整体来面对了。 我们的生活，我们现在所过的生活， 对我们自己的了解太少了， 也许心理学家们， 治疗师们和心理分析师们 告诉我们我们是什么， 但是要发现我们是什么， 我们就不能听他们的， 因为他们和我们一样， 同样困惑， 同样不确定， 同样恐惧， 以各种不同的方式。 所以你得完全靠自己， 不要寻求别人来告诉我们该怎么办， 当然也包括 讲话者。
4:13 Can we know ourselves so completely? The wounds, the fears, the anxieties, the uncertainties, the very complex network of pleasures, death, love, and if there is a continuity after we die. 我们能这样彻底地了解自己吗？ 那些伤害，恐惧， 焦虑， 不确定， 那非常复杂的娱乐网络， 死亡，爱， 以及我们死后是否还有某种延续。
4:50 And also we should be aware, and know, and understand what is meditation. All that is our life: our education, our jobs, our way of thinking, our beliefs, our experiences, deep strong opinions, and so on. All that is our life, with all its struggles, with all its escapes, miseries, and so on. Can we know ourselves completely - all that? Then perhaps it would be possible to approach all our life as a whole, not as fragmented human beings. 我们也应该明白、知道、了解 冥想是什么。 那一切都是我们的生活： 我们的教育，我们的工作， 我们的思维方式， 我们的信仰， 我们的经验， 强烈而深刻的观点， 等等。 那一切就是我们的生活， 连同所有的挣扎， 所有的逃避， 痛苦等等。 我们能彻底地了解自己吗-了解这一切？ 那样也许就可能 把我们所有人的生活作为一个整体来面对了， 而不是作为支离破碎的人类。
6:06 So we are going to talk over together this morning whether it is possible, without any guidance from outside, because they have all led us up the garden path, they have all led us to this present state of the world - the politician, the economist, the religious people, and the gurus, and all the rest of the gang. And it becomes more and more imperative and necessary to find out for ourselves what is right action irrespective of circumstances? Such action which will not bring about further confusion, regrets, sorrow, more misery, and so on. 所以我们今天上午要一起探讨 是否可能 不借助任何外部的指导， 因为他们都把我们带到了花园小路上， 他们都把我们带到了世界的现在这个状况 - 政客、经济学家、宗教人士， 还有古鲁们以及其余的那些乌合之众。 也越来越紧迫、越来越需要 我们自己去发现 什么是正确的行动， 不管面对怎样的环境？ 这样的行动不会带来进一步的困惑、 遗憾、悲伤、 更多的苦难等等。
7:21 So, can one, each one know oneself so completely? Or must we be guided, be prepared to investigate, explore with the help of others? The others, however erudite, however knowledgeable, experienced, are just like us, psychologically they have more skill, greater capacity to express themselves, and so on. But we are, each one, as we pointed out the other day, like the rest of the world, with their sorrows, miseries, confusions, insecurities, intolerable fear, and so on. Can one know oneself, so completely, so that there is not a spot which is not being explored, understood, gone beyond? That is what we are going to talk about together this morning. 所以，我们，每个人能不能 彻底了解自己？ 还是我们必须被指导， 期望我们的检视 和探索， 在他人的帮助之下来进行？ 那些别人，不管多么博学、 多么渊博、 多么经验丰富，就跟我们一样， 在心理上他们有更多的技巧， 更强的能力表达自己等等。 但是，我们，每个人， 正如那天我们所指出的， 就跟世界上的其他人一样， 都有自己的悲伤、痛苦、困惑、不安全、 无法忍受的恐惧等等。 一个人能否了解自己， 了解得如此彻底， 以致于没有任何一点 是未被探索、 理解和超越的？ 这就是我们今天早上要一起探讨的。
9:05 Which is: to know oneself, all the movements of thought, the fears, hidden and open, all the pursuits of pleasure, sexual and otherwise. And find out for ourselves what love is. And understand the full significance of not only personal sorrow, but also the sorrow of mankind. And also, is it possible to understand the final event of our life which is death? All that is our living. And if we are not clear in ourselves, whatever we do will bring about further confusion. So it behooves us, it seems to us, so absolutely necessary to find out if we can know ourselves, right? We are going to begin. 也就是： 了解自己， 了解思想的所有活动， 了解恐惧， 隐藏的和显露的， 了解对快乐的所有追求， 性和其他方面的快乐。 我们自己来发现 爱是什么。 我们来了解悲伤的全部含义，不仅仅是个人的悲伤， 还有人类的悲伤。 还有，可不可能了解 我们生命的最后一个事件，也就是死亡？ 我们的生活就是这一切。 如果我们自己没有 内在的清晰， 我们无论做什么都会带来更多的困惑。 所以我们需要，看来我们极其需要 去发现 我们是否可以了解自己，对不对？ 我们这就开始。
10:49 Which is: the speaker is not going to investigate, and you just merely listen, accepting or denying, but together. Together, think together, if it is possible, because no two people apparently seem to think together. And without pressure, without any form of compulsion, together go into this matter. That demands, first of all, certain attention, not concentration, but a certain quality of deep interest, a mind that is committed to find out, therefore care, freedom to observe. Right? That is absolutely obviously necessary. If one has certain prejudices, experiences which one clings to, then we cannot possibly think together, investigate together, or find out. So one must be somewhat free, at least for this morning, so that one begins to explore. Right? We are going first to explore, as we did the other day, the psychological wounds that one has received from childhood. We went into that the other day. 也就是：不是讲话者在探究， 而你只是听着， 接受或者拒绝， 而是一起。 一起，一起思考， 如果可能的话， 因为很明显没有两个人看起来会一起思考。 没有压力， 没有任何形式的强制， 一起来深入这个问题。 这首先需要某种关注， 不是专注， 而是某种深深感兴趣的品质， 一个投入地去发现的头脑， 因而就有了关怀 以及观察的自由。 对吗？ 很明显，这是绝对必要的。 如果一个人有某些偏见， 有某些紧抓不放的经验， 那么我们就无法一起思考、 一起探究或者发现。 所以你必须有某种程度的自由， 至少今天早上能这样， 这样你就开始探索了。 对吗？ 我们先来探讨，就像我们那天所做的那样， 探讨一个人从童年开始受到的心理伤害。 那天我们讨论了这点。
13:00 And this morning we will first begin with fear. The fears that are deeply hidden, of which you are not conscious, know, or aware, and those obvious both psychological and physical fears. Right? We are following each other? Please, we are together, walking together. The speaker is not walking by himself, talking to himself. Together we are going along the road which might help us, if you are interested, if you are serious, if you want to go to the very end of it, investigate this enormous problem of fear. 今天早上我们先从恐惧开始。 那些深藏的恐惧， 我们没有意识到、 没有了解或察觉的恐惧， 以及那些显而易见的恐惧， 心理上和身体上的恐惧。 对吗？我们跟上彼此了吗？ 请注意，我们是一起的，在并肩而行。 讲话者不是一个人在走， 在自言自语。 我们是一起走在路上， 这可能会对我们有所帮助， 如果你感兴趣，如果你认真， 如果你想将问题追究到底， 探究恐惧这个巨大的问题。
14:09 There is both fear of insecurity, physically, not having jobs, or having jobs, frightened to lose them, the various forms of strikes that are going on in this country, and so on, so on. So most of us are rather nervous, frightened of not being physically completely secure. Obviously. Why? Is it because we are always isolating ourselves as a nation, as a family, as a group? And so this slow process of isolation - the French isolating themselves, the Germans, and so on, so on, so on - is gradually bringing about insecurity for all of us, which is obvious. So can we observe this, not only outwardly? By observing what is happening outwardly, knowing what exactly is going on, then from there we can begin to investigate in ourselves, because otherwise you have no criteria, otherwise one can deceive oneself. 既有对不安全的恐惧， 物质上的， 没有工作，或者有工作 却害怕失去它们， 各种形式的罢工 发生在这个国家，等等等等。 所以我们大多数人都相当紧张， 害怕没有物质上的彻底安全。 显然如此。 为什么？ 是不是因为我们总是在孤立自己， 作为一个国家， 作为一个家庭、一个团体隔离着自己？ 于是这个缓慢的孤立过程 - 法国人在孤立自己， 还有德国人，等等等等 - 都在逐渐地把不安全带给我们所有人， 这很明显。 所以我们能否不仅仅从外部观察到这点？ 通过观察外界发生着什么， 知道确实在发生着什么， 然后从这里我们可以开始审视我们自己， 因为否则你就没有了标准， 否则一个人就会欺骗自己。
15:51 So we must begin from the outer and work towards the inner. Right? It is like a tide that is going out and coming in. It is not a fixed tide, it is moving, out and in, all the time. I hope you are all following this. 所以我们必须从外在开始，然后向内在进发。 对不对？ 就像涨落着的潮汐。 潮汐不是静止不动的，它是运动着的， 涨涨落落，一直如此。 我希望你们都跟上了这些。
16:15 And this isolation, which has been the tribal expression of every human being, is bringing about this physical lack of security. Right? If one sees the truth of it, not the verbal explanation, or the intellectual acceptance of an idea, but if one actually sees this, as a fact, then one doesn't belong to any group, to any nation, to any culture, to any organised religion, because they are also separative, the Catholic, the Protestant, the Hindu, and so on, so on, so on. 这种孤立， 是每个人都有的 一种部落式的表现， 这导致了心理上安全感的缺乏。 对吗？ 如果你看到了这个真相， 不是语言解释， 也不是在理智上接受一个观念， 而是如果你确实看到了这点， 看到了这个事实， 那么你就不会再属于任何团体、 任何国家、 任何文化、 任何组织化的宗教， 因为它们也会导致分裂， 天主教、新教、印度教等等。
17:17 Will you do that, as we are discussing, walking together, drop the things which are false, which are not factual, which have no value whatsoever? Though we think they have value. Actually when you observe, nationality breeds wars, and all the rest of it. So can we drop that, so that physically we can bring about a unity of man? You understand, sirs? And this unity of man can only come about through religion, not the phoney religions that we have - sorry, I hope I am not offending anybody, either the Catholic, the Protestant, the Hindu, the Muslim, the Arab - you know, all those religions are based on thought, put together by thought. And that which thought has created is not sacred; it is just thought, it is just an idea. And you project an idea, symbolise it, then worship it; and in that symbol, or in that image, or in that ritual there is absolutely nothing sacred. And if one actually observes this, then one is free from all that to find out what is true religion, because that may bring us together. 当我们一起讨论，并肩而行时，你会这么做吗？ 放下谬误的东西， 那些不真实、 没有任何价值的东西？ 尽管我们认为它们有价值。 当你切实观察到， 国家主义会滋生战争，诸如此类的一切。 所以我们能否放下那些， 这样从外在 我们就能带来人类的统一？ 明白吗，先生们？ 而人类的这种统一 只能来自于宗教， 不是我们现在有的那种冒牌宗教 - 对不起，我希望我没有冒犯什么人， 不管是天主教徒、新教徒、印度教徒、 穆斯林，还是阿拉伯人 - 你们知道，所有那些宗教都基于思想， 由思想拼凑而成。 而思想制造的东西不是神圣的； 那只是思想，只是个想法而已， 你投射出一个想法， 将其具象化，然后膜拜它； 而在那符号中，在那形象中， 或者在那仪式中，绝对没有任何神圣的东西。 如果你真切地观察到这些， 那么你就那一切中解脱了出来， 能发现什么是真正的宗教， 因为它可以把我们聚到一起。
19:12 So, if we can go into much deeper levels of fear, which is: psychological fears. Right? Psychological fears in relationship, one with the other, psychological fears with regard to the future, fears of the past, that is fears of time, right? You are following this, please? We have got a lot to cover this morning. Please, I'm not a professor, a scholar, delivering a sermon and going back to his rotten life. But this is something very, very serious which affects all our lives, so please give your attention and care. So there are fears in relationship, fears of uncertainty, fears of the past and the future, fears of not knowing, fears of death, fear of loneliness. Right? Look at yourselves please, not at the speaker and the words. The agonising sense of solitude; you may be related to others, you may have a great many friends, you may be married, children, but there is this sense of deep isolation, sense of loneliness. That is one of the factors of fear. 所以，我们是否可以探索恐惧更深的层面， 也就是：心理恐惧。 好吗？ 关系中的心理恐惧， 人与人的关系， 关于未来的心理恐惧， 对过去的恐惧， 那是对时间的恐惧，对不对？ 请问，你们跟上这点了吗？ 我们今天早上要讲很多内容。 请注意，我不是一个教授、 一个学者， 在布道， 然后回去继续他腐朽的生活。 而是，这是非常非常严肃的事情， 影响到我们所有人的生活， 所以请给予你们的注意力和关怀。 那么在关系中有恐惧， 对不确定的恐惧， 对过去和未来的恐惧， 对未知的恐惧， 死亡的恐惧， 孤独的恐惧。 对不对？ 请看着你自己，而不是讲话者和这些语句。 痛苦的孤独感； 你也许与别人有某种关系， 你也许有很多朋友， 你也许结婚了，有孩子， 但还是有这种深深的隔离感、 孤独感。 这是恐惧的因素之一。
21:38 There is also the fear of not being able to fulfil. I don't know whatever that may mean. And the desire to fulfil brings with it the sense of frustration, and in that there is fear. There is fear of not being able to be absolutely clear about everything. Right? So there are many, many, many forms of fear. You can observe your own particular fear, if you are interested, if you are serious. Because a mind that is frightened, knowingly or unknowingly, can try to meditate. Right? And that meditation only leads to further misery, further corruption, because a mind that is frightened can never see what is truth. Right? So we are going to find out, together, if it is possible to be totally, completely free of fear in all its depth, right? 还有对不能达成的恐惧。 我完全不知道达成意味着什么。 而达成的欲望 会带来挫折感， 那其中就有恐惧。 还有无法对所有事情 都保持彻底清晰的恐惧。 对吗？ 所以有很多，很多种形式的恐惧。 你可以观察你自己的特定恐惧， 如果你感兴趣，如果你认真的话。 因为恐惧的头脑， 不管有没有意识到它的恐惧， 可以试图去冥想。 对不对？ 而那冥想只能导致更多的苦难、 更多的腐败， 因为恐惧的头脑 永远无法看到真理是什么。 对不对？ 所以我们要去发现， 一起去发现，是否可能 完全地、 彻底地摆脱 所有层面的恐惧，对不对？
23:30 You know, we are undertaking a job which demands a very careful observation: to observe one's own fear. And how you observe that fear is all important. Right? Can we go on? How do you observe the fear? Is it a fear that you have remembered, and so recall it, and then look at it? Or is it a fear that you have had no time to observe and therefore it is still there? Or the mind is unwilling to look at fear? You are following? I wonder if you coming to it. So which is it that is actually happening? Unwilling to look? Unwilling to observe one's own fears, because most of us do not know how to resolve them? Either we escape, run away, or - you know all the things - analyse, thinking thereby we will get rid of it, but the fear is still there. So it is important to find out how you look at that fear. Right? How do you observe fear? Right. Now you are finished with him, now let's come back. 你知道，我们在进行着一项工作， 这需要 非常仔细的观察： 观察一个人自己的恐惧。 而你如何观察那恐惧是极其重要的。 对不对？我们能继续吗？ 你如何观察那恐惧？ 它是不是你记住的一种恐惧， 于是能回想起来，然后观察它？ 还是那是一种 你没有时间去观察的恐惧， 所以它依然还在那儿？ 又或者头脑是不是不愿意去看恐惧？ 你们跟上了吗？我不知道你们跟上没有。 那么实际发生的情况是怎样的？ 不愿意看？ 不愿意观察自己的恐惧， 因为我们大多数人都不知道如何解决它们？ 我们要么逃避，逃走，或者- 你们都知道的 - 分析，以为这样我们就能除掉它， 但是恐惧还在那儿。 所以重要的是去弄清楚 你如何观察那恐惧。 对不对？ 你怎样观察恐惧？ 好的。现在你跟他结束了，现在让我们回来。
26:10 How do you observe fear? This is not a silly question, because either you observe it after it has happened, or you observe it as it is happening. Right? For most of us the observation takes place after it has happened. Right? Now we are asking whether it is possible to observe fear as it arises. Right? That is, you are threatened by another belief, a belief that you hold very strongly, you are frightened about it, there is fear in that, right? Now, I am challenging you now. You have certain beliefs, certain experiences, certain opinions, judgements, evaluations, and so on. When one is challenging them, there is either resistance, building a wall against it, or you are doubtful whether you are going to be attacked, and so fear arises. Now, can you observe that fear as it arises? Right? Come on, sirs. Right? You are following what I am saying? Will you do it? Are you doing it? Now, how do you observe that fear? The word, the recognition of the response which you call fear, because you have had that fear previously, the memory of it is stored up, and when the fear arises you recognise it. Right? So you are not observing but recognising. I wonder if you see this? 你怎样观察恐惧？ 这不是个愚蠢的问题， 因为要么你在它发生之后观察它， 要么在它发生时观察它。 对吗？ 对我们大多数人来说， 在发生之后才有观察。 对不对？ 现在我们在问是否可能 在恐惧发生时观察恐惧。 对不对？ 也就是， 你受到了另一种信念的威胁， 你紧紧地抱守着一种信念， 对此你很害怕，其中就有恐惧，对吗？ 现在，我来挑战你。 你有某些信念、某些经验、 某些观点、判断、 评估等等。 当有人来挑战它们， 要么出现抗拒， 建起一堵墙来对抗， 要么你怀疑你是不是会受到攻击， 所以就产生了恐惧。 现在，你能否在恐惧产生的时候观察那恐惧？ 对吧？继续，先生们。 对吧？你们跟上我说的话了吗？ 你会这么做吗？你在这么做吗？ 现在，你怎样观察那恐惧？ 语言， 对那反应的认知， 你称之为恐惧， 因为你以前有过那恐惧， 对它的记忆储存了起来， 于是恐惧产生的时候你就认出了它。 对不对？ 所以你不是在观察而是在认知。 我想知道你们是否明白了这点？
28:55 So, recognition doesn't free the mind from fear. It only strengthens the fear. Whereas if you are able to observe as it arises, then there are two factors taking place in it. One, that you are different from that fear. Right? And so you can operate on that fear, control it, chase it away, rationalise it, and so on. That is, you doing something about that fear. Right? That is the way we generally observe. In that there is a division: the me and the fear, so there is conflict in that division. Right? Whereas if you observe that fear is you, you are not different from that fear. I wonder if you get this. If you once grasp the principle of this that the observer is the observed, that the person who says, 'I am observing,' then he is separating himself from that which he is observing, whereas the fact is the observer is that fear. Therefore there is no division between the observer and the fear. Right? That is a fact. 所以，认知无法将头脑从恐惧中解脱出来。 它只会增强恐惧。 然而如果你能够在它产生的时候就观察到， 那么其中就产生了两个因素。 一，你不同于那恐惧。 对不对？ 所以你可以对那恐惧有所行动， 控制它， 把它赶走， 合理化等等。 也就是，你 在对恐惧做些什么。 对不对？ 这就是我们通常进行观察的方式。 这其中就有一种划分： 我和恐惧， 于是在那划分中就有冲突。 对不对？ 然而如果你观察到那恐惧就是你， 你就与恐惧没有不同了。 我想知道你们是否明白了这点。 如果你一旦领会了这个规律， 即观察者就是被观察者， 那个说“我在观察”的人， 他就是在把自己与他所观察之物分离开来， 而事实是 观察者就是那恐惧。 因而就没有了 观察者和恐惧之间的分裂。 对不对？ 这是个事实。
31:00 Then what takes place? Let's first hold it for a minute. Are you all following all this? As we said, are we observing fear through the process of memory, which is recognition, the naming? Right? From that the tradition says, 'Control it,' the tradition says, 'Run away from it,' the tradition says, 'Do something about it so that you are not frightened.' So the tradition has educated us to say that we, the 'me,' is different from fear. Right? So can you be free of that tradition and observe that fear? That is, observe without the thought that has remembered, that reaction which has been called fear in the past. It requires great attention. You understand? It requires skill in observation. 那么会发生什么？ 让我们先来体会一下。 这些你们都跟上了吗？ 正如我们说过的， 我们是不是在观察恐惧时 通过了记忆的过程， 也就是认知、命名？ 是吗？ 因此传统说，“控制它”， 传统说，“逃避它”， 传统说， “对它做点什么， 这样你就不害怕了。” 所以传统教育我们 说，我们， “我”是不同于恐惧的。 对不对？ 所以你能否摆脱那传统， 去观察恐惧？ 也就是，观察而不带着思想， 思想会记起 过去被称为恐惧的那种反应。 这需要巨大的注意力。你们明白吗？ 这需要观察中的技巧。
32:39 That is also part of yoga. You understand? It is not merely doing exercises which is not yoga at all, but the skill in observation. That is, in observing there is only pure perception, not the interpretation of that perception by thought. You understand all this? Please do it as we are talking about it. 这也是瑜伽的一部分。 你们明白吗？ 不只是做做运动， 那根本不是瑜伽， 而是观察中的技巧。 也就是，在观察中只有纯然的觉察， 而没有思想对那觉察的诠释。 你们明白这一切吗？ 请在我们探讨的时候就这么做。
33:16 Then what is fear? You understand? Now I have observed someone threatening, the belief that I hold, the experience that I cling to, the saying 'I have achieved,' and someone threatens it, and therefore the fear arises. In observing that fear, we have explained it, we have come to the point when you observe without the division, right? 那么恐惧是什么？你们明白吗？ 现在我发现有人威胁到了 我抱有的信念、 我抱守的经验， 我说“我成功了”，而有人质疑了这点， 所以恐惧就产生了。 在观察这恐惧时，我们解释过了， 我们来到了这个点， 你观察时 没有划分，对吗？
33:54 Now, the next question is: what is fear? You are following this? What is fear? Fear of the dark, fear of husband, wife, girl, or whatever it is, fear, artificial and actual, and so on. What is fear, apart from the word? The word is not the thing, right? Please, one must recognise this very deeply: the word is not the thing. Right? May we go on? 现在，下一个问题是：恐惧是什么？ 你们跟上这点了吗？恐惧是什么？ 怕黑，怕丈夫、妻子、女友或者不管什么， 虚假的和真实的恐惧等等。 抛开恐惧这个词， 恐惧是什么？ 词语并非真实之物，对吗？ 请注意，你必须非常深刻地认识到这一点： 词语并非真实之物。 对不对？ 我们可以继续吗？
34:44 So, what is that which we call fear, without the word? Or the word creates the fear? Are you interested in all this? Because if the word creates the fear, the word being the recognition of something that has happened before, which means a word has been given to something that has happened before, which we have called fear, so the word becomes important. Right? Like the Englishman, the Frenchman, the Russian, the word is tremendously important for most of us. But the word is not the thing, right? So what is fear? Apart from the various expressions of fear, the root of it? Because then if we can find the root of it, then unconscious and conscious fears can be understood. The root, the moment you have a perception of the root, the conscious mind and the unconscious mind have no importance, there is the perception of it, right? What is the root of fear? Fear of yesterday, of a thousand yesterdays, fear of tomorrow, right? Tomorrow, death - not for you. Or the fear of something that has happened in the past. There is no actual fear now. Please understand this carefully. If suddenly death strikes one, it is finished. It is over. You have a heart attack and it is finished. But the idea that a heart attack might happen in the future, right? So is fear - please follow this carefully - is fear, the root of it, time? You understand? Time. Time being a movement of the past, modified in the present, and going on in the future. This whole movement, is that the cause of fear, the root of it? 那么，我们称之为恐惧的东西是什么， 抛开那个词？ 还是是那个词制造了恐惧？ 你们对这一切感兴趣吗？ 因为如果是词语制造了恐惧， 词语是认出了某事， 以前发生过的事情， 这意味着某个词语被用来指代某件 以前发生过的事情，我们称之为恐惧， 于是词语变得重要。 对不对？ 就像英国人、法国人、俄国人， 对我们大多数人来说词语太重要了。 但是词语并非真实之物，对不对？ 那么恐惧是什么？ 抛开对恐惧的各种表述， 它的根源是什么？ 因为如果我们能发现它的根源， 那么无意识的和有意识的恐惧 就都能被了解。 根源， 一旦你觉察到了那根源， 有意识和无意识的头脑就没有任何重要性了， 只有对它的觉察，对不对？ 恐惧的根源是什么？ 害怕昨天， 一千个昨天， 害怕明天，对吗？ 明天，死亡- 不是说你。 或者害怕某件过去发生过的事情。 现在并没有真实的恐惧。 请用心理解这一点。 如果猝死突然袭击了一个人，那就结束了。 结束了。 你发了心脏病，那就结束了。 但是想到心脏病 可能会在未来发生，对不对？ 所以恐惧- 请用心跟上这点 - 恐惧，它的根源，是不是时间？ 你们明白吗？时间。 时间是过去的运动， 现在调整一下， 然后在未来继续。 这整个运动， 这是不是恐惧的原因， 它的根源？
38:09 We are asking: is thought, which is time, the root of fear? Thought is movement. Right? Any movement is time. So I was asking: is the root of fear time, thought? And if we can understand the whole movement of time - right? - the time psychologically as well as physically, the time that it takes for you to go from here back home, physical time to cover the distance, and the psychological time, which is the tomorrow. Right? So, is tomorrow the root of fear? Right? Which means, can one live - please, we are talking about daily living, not just theories - can one live without tomorrow? You are following this? Do it. That is, if you have had a pain yesterday, physical pain, to finish with that pain yesterday, not carry it over to today and to tomorrow. You understand the question? It is the carrying over, which is the time, that brings fear. I wonder if you can do all this? 我们在问： 思想，也就是时间，是不是 恐惧的根源？ 思想是运动。 对吗？任何运动都是时间。 所以我问： 恐惧的根源是不是时间， 思想？ 而如果我们能了解 时间的整个运动 - 对吗？- 心理时间以及物理时间， 你得花费时间 从这里回家， 走过这段距离需要物理时间， 而心理时间， 就是明天。 对不对？ 那么，恐惧的根源是不是明天？ 对不对？ 也就是说，一个人能否 - 请注意，我们说的是每天的生活，而不只是理论 - 一个人能否没有明天地活着？ 明白这点吗？去这么做。 也就是，如果你昨天有处疼痛， 身体疼痛， 那么昨天就把那疼痛 终结掉， 不把它延续到今天和明天去。 明白这个问题吗？ 是这种延续，也就是时间， 带来了恐惧。 我不知道你们能否做到这些？
40:39 So, it is totally possible, and absolutely possible, that fear, psychological fear can end, if you apply what is being said. The cook can make a marvellous dish, but if you are not hungry, if you don't eat it, then it remains merely on the menu and of no value. But whereas if you eat it, apply it, go into it by yourself, you will see that fear can absolutely psychologically come to an end, so the mind is free from this terrible burden man has carried. Right? 所以，完全可能， 绝对可能， 终结恐惧，终结心理恐惧， 如果你践行我们所说的。 厨师可以做出一道美味的菜， 但是如果你不饿， 如果你不吃， 那么那道菜就只能停留在菜单上， 毫无价值。 但是如果你去吃，去行动， 你自己深入去探索， 你会发现恐惧 绝对可以在心理上终结， 这样头脑就解脱了 人类一直背负的这可怕的重负。 对不对？
41:46 Then the next question is, which is part of our life, which is pleasure. Right? Are you afraid to tackle it? Because for most of us pleasure is an extraordinarily important thing. Pleasure of possession, pleasure of achievement, pleasure of fame, pleasure of doing something skilfully, and so on - pleasure. Sexual, sensory, and intellectual. A man who has a great deal of knowledge, he delights in that knowledge. But as we pointed out, with that knowledge goes also ignorance, because knowledge is never complete, but he forgets that part and only remembers the knowledge which he has acquired. And in that there is great pleasure, - right? - sensory, sexual, romantic, sentimental, intellectual, having experiences, which are sensory. So this whole combination of various elements brings this extraordinary feeling of pleasure, right? 那么下一个问题是， 快乐是什么，这也是我们生活的一部分。 对吗？ 对付这个问题，你们害怕吗？ 因为对我们大多数人来说，快乐是极其重要的一件事。 占有的快乐， 成就的快乐， 名声的快乐， 娴熟地做某件事的快乐， 等等- 快乐。 性的、感官的、智力上的快乐。 一个拥有大量知识的人， 他以那些知识为乐。 但是正如我们所指出的， 知识与愚昧相伴而行， 因为知识永远不是完备的， 但是他忘了这点，只记得 他已经获取的那些知识。 而其中有巨大的快乐， - 对吗？- 感官上的、性方面的、 浪漫的、多愁善感的、 智力上的， 拥有经验，即感官经验。 所以这各种各样的因素结合在一起 就产生了这种巨大的快乐感觉，对不对？
43:41 Why shouldn't we have pleasure? You understand? Religions throughout the world have said, 'Don't, only have the pleasure to serve God.' You understand? All your senses, sexual - all that must be dissipated, put away. This is what the organised religions throughout the world have said. We are not saying that. We are saying, investigate it, why man, human being, demands, pursues this thing, pleasure. Why? Go on, sirs. There is the pleasure, physical pleasure, sexual, seeing a lovely sunset, seeing the beauty of a mountain, the calm waters of a lovely lake, to observe it. But having observed it, having seen it, and enjoyed it, the mind has a remembrance of that enjoyment and pursues that enjoyment, right? That is, the continuation of pleasure: having seen the sunset, taken delight in it, not end it, but remember it, and that demand of the previous pleasure to be continued. 我们为什么要有快乐呢？ 明白吗？ 全世界的宗教都说，“不可以有快乐， 只能有服务上帝的快乐。” 明白吗？ 你所有的感受，性方面的， - 那一切都必须被消除、抛弃。 这就是全世界组织化的宗教所说的。 我们不是说这些。 我们在说，去检视它， 为什么人，人类， 需要并追求这个东西——快乐。 为什么？继续，先生们。 有各种快乐，身体上的快乐，性的， 看到美丽的落日， 看到山脉的壮丽， 美丽湖泊的平静水面， 观察到这些。 但是观察到了，看到了它， 享受了， 头脑就有了对那享受的记忆， 并追求那享受，对不对？ 也就是，想继续那快乐： 看过了落日， 享受了其中的快乐， 不把它终结，而是记住它， 并想要继续以前的快乐。
45:54 So thought - right, you are following? - thought interferes with that moment of perception, then remembers it, then wants more of it. You have seen all this - sex, you know all about it. The remembrance of it, the picture, the excitement, the whole mechanism of thought operating, and pursuing that. Right? Why does thought do this? You are following my question? Why does thought take over an incident that is over, remember it, and pursue it? 所以思想 - 对吗，你们跟上了吗？- 思想在看到的那一刻干涉进来， 然后记住它， 然后想要更多的快乐。 你看到了这一切 - 性，你知道它的一切。 对性的记忆，画面，兴奋， 思想运作的这整个机制， 追求快乐。对吗？ 思想为什么这么做？ 你们跟上我的问题了吗？ 思想为什么 抓取已经结束了的 一个事件， 记住它并追求它？
47:00 The pursuit is the pleasure. You are following this? Why? Why does thought do this? Is it part of our education, part of our tradition, part of our habit? Every man does this - better include the woman, too, because otherwise... Every human being does this, why? Go into it, sirs, don't look at me. Why do you pursue pleasure? Is it that that creates isolation? You are following this? Is that what makes for the so-called individual? My pleasure, and it is private. All pleasure is private, unless you go to football, and all that kind of stuff. Pleasure is private. Is that one of the reasons why human beings secretly pursue this pleasure? Because it gives them importance to themselves? You are following all this? Therefore pleasure may be the cause of this tremendous isolation, as a group, as a family, as a tribe, as a nation. I wonder if you see all this? 那追求就是快乐。 你们跟上这点了吗？ 为什么？ 思想为什么这么做？ 这是不是我们教育的一部分， 我们传统的一部分，我们习惯的一部分？ 每个人都这么做 - 最好也包括女人，因为否则的话... 每个人都这么做，为什么？ 深入进去，先生们，别看着我。 你为什么追求快乐？ 是不是正是它制造了孤立？ 你们跟上这点了吗？ 是不是它造就了所谓的个体？ 我的快乐，那是个人的。 所有的快乐都是个人的， 除非你参加足球队，诸如此类的东西。 快乐是个人的。 这是不是 人类为什么 偷偷追求快乐的原因之一？ 因为这给他们自身赋予了重要性？ 这些你们都跟上了吗？ 所以快乐也许是 这深重孤立的原因， 作为一个团体、一个家庭、 一个部落、一个国家孤立起来。 我想知道你们都明白了这点吗？
49:05 So when one sees the truth of it, the truth, not the words, not the intellectual concept, then will thought take over and make it a remembrance? You understand? Or just see the sunset - finish. Experiment with this, you will see for yourself, if you do it, that thought, as in the case of fear, is the origin, the beginning of this conflict, both of fear and the pursuit of pleasure, right? 所以当你看到了其中的真相， 看到事实，而不是词语，也不是理智上的概念， 那么思想还会抓取 并把它变成记忆吗？ 你们明白吗？ 或者只是看到落日- 结束了。 去试验这些，你自己会 发现的，如果你这么做的话， 会发现思想，在恐惧这件事中， 是这种冲突的根源、起因， 既恐惧也是追求快乐的起因，对不对？
50:01 Then there is the question - we are dealing with the whole of our life - then there is the question, why human beings throughout the world suffer. We are not talking about the physical suffering - that can be dealt with also, if the mind is not continually attached, always concerned with itself, you understand? You have had a pain, disease, infirmity of some kind or other. Thought then becomes so concerned. Right? And so it identifies itself with that, and so the mind itself becomes crippled. Right? So can the mind, thought, see the infirmity, the disease, the pain... Yes, you follow? Try it, do it, you will find out. When you are sitting in the dentist's chair - the speaker has done for four hours - when you sit down on the dentist's chair and the drill is going on, observe it. You will see, find out. Or look out of the window and see the beauty of the tree, so that the mind is capable of observing itself with a detachment - you understand? Oh, you can't do all this. 那么接下来的问题是 - 我们是在面对我们的整个生命 - 然后的问题就是， 为什么全世界的人类都受苦。 我们说的不是身体上的痛苦 - 那些也能被处理，如果头脑 没有总是注重它自己， 总是关心它自己的话，你们明白吗？ 你有过某种疼痛，疾病， 身体不健康或别的什么。 然后思想变得如此关心此事。 对不对？ 于是就把自己与那病痛认同在一起， 于是头脑本身就变得蹩脚了。 对不对？ 所以，头脑、思想能否看到这不健康、 这疾病、疼痛...是的，你跟上了吗？ 试试，去做，你会发现的。 当你坐在牙医的椅子上 - 讲话者坐过四个小时 - 当你坐在牙医的椅子上， 牙钻在钻着，观察它。 你会明白的，去发现。 或者望向窗外，看看树木的美， 这样头脑就能观察它自己， 带着一种超脱- 明白吗？ 噢，这些你都做不到。
52:19 So we are asking: why do human beings throughout the world suffer, accept suffering, and live with it? There have been two wars, terrible. Think of the tears that human beings have shed. And their children, their grandchildren will support war. You understand? So sorrow doesn't teach man apparently. Right? They worship sorrow, the Christians do. The Hindus have different explanations for sorrow, for what you have done in the past, past life, and so on. I won't go into all that. 所以我们在问： 全世界的人类为什么 都受苦，接受痛苦并忍耐下来？ 已经有两次可怕的战争了。 想想人类流过的眼泪。 而他们的孩子、他们的孙辈还会支持战争。 明白吗？ 所以显然悲伤并没有教会人们什么。 对不对？ 他们崇拜悲伤，基督教徒就这样。 印度教徒对悲伤有不同的解释， 因为你在过去、前世做过的事情等等。 我不会深入讲那些的。
53:26 So we are asking: what is sorrow? And why man lives with sorrow? You understand? Find out, sirs, give your minds to this. As you give your minds to sex, to jobs, to this or that, give your mind and heart to find out whether man can ever be free from sorrow. Is sorrow part of the egotistic attitude towards life? That is, my son is dead, or my wife has run away, or something, or other, to which I am greatly attached, and it is taken away for various reasons, and I suffer. There's grief, there're tears, there's antagonism there's bitterness, cynicism. Why? You understand? Is it I am so caught up in my own problems, I am so self-centred, my son is me. Right? Or my daughter is me. I am attached. I hold on. And when that is gone, there is a great sense of emptiness, great sense of loneliness, great sense of lack of relationship. Right? Is that the reason that one suffers? That is, the son being taken away - death or whatever it is - has revealed to me what I am: my loneliness, my isolation, my lack of real relationship. I thought I was related, but it is my son - you follow? So, the taking away of the son reveals my condition. Go carefully into this. And I suddenly realise my loneliness, my sense of loss, the deprivation of something to which I am greatly attached. The death of the son has revealed to me, right? But that revelation, an awareness of the self, of the 'me,' has revealed before the incident. I wonder if you see this? Right? You are seeing this? 所以我们在问：悲伤是什么？ 人类为什么活在悲伤中？ 明白吗？ 去弄清楚，先生们，在这件事上动动你们的脑子。 就像你们把心思用在性，用在工作、这个或那个上一样， 投入你的身心去发现 人类究竟能否摆脱悲伤。 悲伤是不是对于生活的那种自私态度的一部分？ 也就是，我的儿子死了， 或者我的妻子跑掉了， 或者某件别的事情， 我特别依赖的事情， 由于各种原因被夺走了， 于是我就痛苦。 就有了悲伤、眼泪、对抗， 有了痛苦、愤世嫉俗。 为什么？你们明白吗？ 是不是因为我如此受困于 我自己的问题， 我如此自我中心， 我的儿子就变成了我。 对吗？ 或者我的女儿就是我。 我依附。 我执着。 而当那些都失去时， 就有巨大的空虚感， 巨大的孤独感、 巨大的关系缺失感。 对不对？ 这是人痛苦的原因吗？ 也就是， 我的儿子被夺走了- 死了或者不管是什么 - 这就向我揭示出了我是什么： 我的寂寞、 我的孤立、我缺乏真正的关系。 我认为我与别人有着关系， 但那是我的儿子- 明白吗？ 所以，儿子的失去 就揭露出了我的境况。 请用心深入进去。 我突然意识到 我的孤独、 我的失落感， 失去某样东西， 我极度依恋的东西。 儿子的死向我揭示出了这些，对不对？ 而这揭示， 一种对自我、对“我”的觉察， 在那件事发生之前就可以揭示出来。 我想知道你们是否明白了这点？对吗？ 你们看到这点了吗？
57:21 As we said at the beginning of the talk, self-awareness. Self-awareness is to know one's self, one's attachments, one's loneliness, one's sense of isolation - all that, to know the totality of oneself. The incident of the son reveals that, right? That is, reveals after the incident. But if there is self-awareness from the very beginning, taking away the son, the son dying, is what? It is no longer the sorrow which is brought about through attachment. Right, you have understood? My mind now accepts it. It is no longer caught in self-pity, in the struggle to be free from isolation, taking comfort in a belief, or in this, or that. Right? So one sees sorrow exists so long as the self is there. I wonder if you see this? So, the total abandonment of the self is the ending of sorrow. Are you following all this? Will you abandon yourselves? No, sirs. Therefore we worship sorrow, or run away from it. 正如我们在讲话刚开始的时候所说的， 自我觉察。 自我觉察就是知道一个人的自我、自己的执着、 自己的孤独、隔离感- 那一切， 了解整个自己。 儿子的事件揭示了这些，对吗？ 也就是，在事件发生之后才揭示出来。 但是如果从一开始就有自我觉察， 那么失去儿子，儿子的死去， 那是什么？ 那就不会再是 因为依恋产生的悲伤了。 是吗，明白了？ 现在我的头脑接受了这点。 它不再受困于自怜中， 受困于想要摆脱孤独的挣扎中， 在信念中寻找安慰，这个或那个。对吗？ 所以一个人看到了只要有自我 就会有悲伤存在。 我想知道你是否明白了这点？ 所以，对自我的彻底抛弃 就是悲伤的终结。 这些你们都跟上了吗？ 你们会抛弃自己吗？ 不会，先生们。 所以我们膜拜悲伤，或者逃避它。
59:32 And also we should go together, investigate this whole question of death. Not just for the old people like us, but also for everyone in the world - young, old, or middle-aged - death is one of the most extraordinary things that happens in life. Right? What do you think of it? What is your instinctual response to the word and to the fact? What is death? Death is an ending. Right? Please follow this carefully. Ending. Ending voluntarily, you can't argue with death, you can't say, 'Please, give me another week,' you can't discuss; it is there, finished. 同样，我们也应该一起 探究死亡的这整个问题。 不只是为像我们这样的老人， 而且是为世界上的每个人 - 年轻的、年老的或者中年的 - 死亡是生命中发生的 最非凡的事情之一。对不对？ 对此你是怎么想的？ 你的直觉会怎样回应 这个词和这个事实？ 死亡是什么？ 死亡是结束。 对吗？ 请用心跟上这点。 结束。 自发结束， 你不能跟死亡讨价还价， 你不能说，“请再给我一个星期，” 你不能讨论；它就在那儿，结束了。
1:01:10 So, can you voluntarily end your attachment, which is death? You understand? Ending is something like death. The ending of a particular habit, - not struggle, fight, wrangle - end it! If you smoke, if you take drugs, if you drink, that is what is going to happen when you pop off! (Laughter) 所以，你能否自发终结 你的执着， 也就是自发死去？ 明白吗？ 结束就像死亡一样。 结束一个特定的习惯， - 没有挣扎、斗争、纠缠 - 终结它！ 如果你吸烟，如果你吸毒，如果你饮酒， 当你猝死的时候那些事情自然会结束！（笑声）
1:01:58 So can we voluntarily end - do you understand? - your experience, your opinions, your attitudes, your beliefs, your gods - end. We are afraid to end. Right? To end anything voluntarily. If you say, 'What is there if I end?' That is, then you are looking for a reward. You consider then ending as a punishment. So, the ending being considered as pain, then you will naturally demand a reward. If I give up, then what? You don't ask that of death. 所以我们能否自发终结 - 明白吗？-你的经验、 你的观点、你的态度、 你的信仰、你的诸神 - 结束。 我们害怕结束。 对不对？ 自发结束任何事情。 如果你说，“如果我结束了，那还剩什么？” 也就是说，那样你就是在寻求一个奖赏。 你觉得结束是一种惩罚。 所以，结束被当成了 痛苦， 于是你自然就想要一个奖赏。 如果我放弃，那会如何？ 你不会问死亡要这些的。
1:03:25 So, can you end and see in that very ending there is the beginning of something new? You understand? That is, one ends attachment, attachment to furniture, people, ideas, beliefs, gods - the whole thing, ends. And you end it voluntarily, because it is intelligent to end. Right? So in that ending a new... - this isn't a promise, you understand? - a new thing takes place. Try it, sirs. That is, while living, inviting death, which is the ending. You understand? Ending to one's incredible complex way of living. So that the mind, because it has ended everything - you understand? Do it and you will discover it for yourself. Therefore it is always new. New in the sense - fresh. You know, when you climb a mountain, you have to leave all your furniture behind, all your problems, because you can't carry all the furniture that you have collected up the hill. So you let go, and you'll discover for yourself that there is a quality of mind, that being absolutely free, is able to perceive that which is eternal. The word 'eternal' is not an idea, you follow? Eternal means out of time. Death is time. I wonder if you see this? 所以，你能否终结，并从那终结本身 看到有某样新事物开始了？ 明白吗？ 也就是，一个人终结了执着， 终结了对家具的依恋、 对人们、对想法、信念和众神的执着 - 这整件事情都结束。 而你是自发结束的，因为结束是智慧的。 对不对？ 所以在那结束中一件新的... - 这不是一个承诺，明白吗？- 一件新事物发生了。 试一试，先生们。 也就是，活着的时候， 邀请死亡，也就是邀请结束到来。 明白吗？ 结束你那惊人的 复杂的生活方式。 于是头脑， 因为它结束了所有事情 - 明白吗？ 去这么做，你自己就会发现的。 所以头脑总是崭新的。 崭新的意思是- 新鲜的。 你知道，当你爬山时， 你得把你所有的家具留在身后， 还有你所有的问题， 因为你不能背着你收集来的所有家具 爬上山去。 所以你放开它们， 然后你自己就会发现 头脑有了一种品质， 彻底地自由， 能够窥见那永恒。 “永恒”这个词不是一个概念，明白吗？ 永恒意味着摆脱了时间。 死亡是时间。 我想知道你是否看到了这点？
1:06:16 So the mind that understands this extraordinary mystery - it is a mystery - because what we are clinging to is our problems, our furniture, our ideas - all that, we are clinging to that, which is put together by time, and with the ending of that there is something totally new dimension. Now it's up to you. Right. Right, sirs. 所以头脑了解到了这非凡的奥秘 - 这是个奥秘 - 因为我们所紧抓的 是我们的问题、我们的家具、我们的观念 - 那一切，我们紧紧抓住， 那是由时间拼凑成的， 而随着那一切的终结 就有了某种全新维度的东西。 现在这取决于你。 好了。 好了，先生们。