克里希那穆提 - 宗教、死亡與冥想

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR80T4 - 宗教、死亡與冥想
公開談話(四)
英國布洛克伍德公園
1980 年 9 月7 日

1:14	This is the last talk. We have been talking about so many things, about the very complexity of life, and whether one can disentangle all the confusion and have a clear mind, so that our actions are precise, accurate, without any regrets, without wounding another or being wounded. We also talked about relationship, that all life is a movement in relationship, and that relationship is destroyed when we have an image of each other, and that image separates people. And also we talked about discontent, order. And as this is the last talk, I think we ought to talk over together what is religion, and what is meditation, and – sorry to bring such a subject as death in a lovely morning. We ought to consider together all these problems: death, what is religion, and what is the meaning of meditation.	這是最後一場談話我們談過許多事情都與生命的複雜性有關以及人是否能解開這些糾纏擁有一個清明的心靈好讓我們有精準、正確的行動沒有任何懊悔不傷害別人，也不受傷害我們也談過關係談過生命是關係的活動那個關係被我們彼此建立的形象摧毀了那個形象把人分離了我們也談過不滿足、秩序由於這是最後一場談話我認為我們應該一起討論宗教是什麼？冥想是什麼？以及…抱歉在這個美好的早上提出死亡這個話題我們應該一起思考這些問題死亡、宗教是什麼？以及冥想的意義是什麼？
3:33	First of all, if we may point out again, this is not an entertainment, intellectual or otherwise, romantic, stimulating your emotions or imaginations, but rather a gathering of serious people who are concerned with the transformation of themselves and therefore of society. That is the real meaning of these talks and gatherings, that as we have created this unfortunate, shocking society, and it is we who have created it, past generations and we are adding to that, we have been talking over together whether it is possible to transform our whole attitude and values and activities so that perhaps we can bring about a different society altogether. We have gone into all this pretty carefully. And also I think we ought to go into these other matters, like death, meditation and what is religion.	首先，容我們再一次指出這不是娛樂知性的或其他形式浪漫的，刺激你的情緒或想像反之，這是一群認真者的聚會我們關心的是自己的轉化，乃至於社會的轉化這才是這些談話與聚會的真正意義我們創造了這個不幸又令人驚懼的社會是我們創造的過往的世代，加上我們的添加我們一起談過是否可能轉化我們的整個態度價值與…活動或許能引發一個截然不同的社會我們很仔細地討論過這些題目同時我也認為應該討論一些別的事情比如死亡、冥想、宗教是什麼
5:14	I think they are all connected together. And also one would like to point out that there is no Eastern thinking, or Western thinking. There is only thinking, not of the East nor of the West. Thinking. And thinking can take a particular channel, a particular direction, following some specialist, religious or economic, but it is still thought, therefore there is no actual division between the East and the West, nor South and North. Though the North has all the technological capacity – they should not be divided as East and West, but only North and South. The more South you go, as at present, the less technological evolution. But whereas in the North there is much more. So there is only thinking. It is not East or West. I think we ought to be very clear on this matter. The Eastern world has its own particular philosophy, its own religion, its own superstitions, idiosyncrasies and rubbish. As the West also has its own superstitions, idiosyncrasies and a lot of rubbish. They are both the same, East and West, and North and South.	我認為它們是彼此關聯的我也要指出的是並沒有東方式或西方式的思考只有思考既不是東方，也不是西方，思考思考會遵循一個特別的管道一個特別的…方向追隨一個宗教或經濟的專家但仍然是思想因此東西之間並沒有實際的分別也沒有南北的分別雖然北方擁有科技能力但也不應該分為東方和西方只有北方和南方你越往南走，以目前來說科技的進化就越少北方卻比較多因此只有思考不是東方或西方的思考我認為我們應該把這件事弄清楚東方世界有它特有的哲學自己的宗教、自己的迷信偶像崇拜和廢物西方也有它自己的迷信偶像崇拜和一大堆垃圾兩者都一樣東方、西方、北方與南方
7:32	So we are, as we pointed out together, we are thinking over these problems together. Not only thinking together, but going beyond that. Because the intellect has a certain value, its capacity is to discern, evaluate, distinguish, calculate, design, remember. That is the intellect. And if the intellect predominates our life then that brings about imbalance. And if our emotions dominate that also brings about imbalance. So we must be very clear from the very beginning of these talks and the ending of these talks that we are not concerned with a particular sect, religion, a form of meditation and so on. We are concerned with the investigation of these matters and together find the truth of these. Truth is not yours or mine. It has no path to it. When there is a path to it, it is not truth. So if you don’t mind we are repeating again that we are talking over together as two friends who are deeply concerned, not only of what is happening in the world but also what is taking place inwardly. The outward is the reflection of the inner. There is a constant interrelationship between the two. It is really one movement. And that movement has brought about such confusion in the world, such misery, anxiety, uncertainty, total insecurity. And we are now, together, you and I, we will investigate into the nature of what is religion.	因此，我們是…正如我們一起指出的我們要一起思考這些問題不只一起思考，還要一起超越知性有它一定的價值它有能力分辨、評估、區別計算、設計、記憶這是知性的作用如果知性主導我們的生活就會帶來失衡感性主導也會帶來失衡因此，我們在談話的開始與結束就必須非常清楚我們不關心一個特別的宗派、宗教一種冥想的形式等我們關心的是探究這些事並一起找出其中的真理真理不是你的或我的真理沒有道路可循有道路可循的不是真理如果你們不介意的話我們要再重複一遍我們要像兩個朋友一樣討論我們深度關切不只是世界發生的現狀也包括內在發生的事外在是內在的反映兩者之間有持續的相互關係其實只是一個活動那個活動為世界帶來極大的混亂極大的悲慘、焦慮不確定、徹底的不安全感我們在一起，你和我我們要探討宗教的本質
10:33	The word ‘religion’, the root of it, has not been established. I think from observing and looking into various dictionaries, it really means gathering together all energy to find out the truth. I think that is what it means, after looking at various French, English, Italian dictionaries. It implies also diligence and negligence. A mind must be utterly diligent to find out what is truth. And if there is any kind of negligence it is a distraction and a wastage of energy. We are not stating this, it is a fact. Where the mind is dissipating itself in all the trivialities: in gossip, in getting hurt and wounding others, violence, caught up in its own self-centred activity, all that is negligence. Whereas a religious mind demands diligence to be precise, to be accurate, objectively and inwardly, so that there is no illusion, no deception, total integrity. That is what can be called a mind that is religious. But religion as it exists is not religion at all. All the propaganda, the images in the West, and the images in the East, you know, the rituals, the whole dressing up and all that business, has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. You may disagree with this. If you are a devout Christian, a practising Catholic, probably you will even not listen. And when the speaker goes to India he tells them the same thing, that their religion, their superstition, their images, all the nonsensical meaningless rituals have nothing to do whatsoever with truth. And many of them have said, ‘You should be burnt’, ‘or sent to a concentration camp’. Probably, if you were living in the Middle Ages you would be: tortured, called a heretic, burnt in the name of God, peace and all the rest of it. In India they are a little more absorbing. They say you are part of all this, but it is not meant for you, for us, you go away.	Religion 並沒有明確的字源根據觀察與查閱各種字典我認為它真正的意思是聚集所有的能量找出真理我認為這是它的意思我查過法文、英文義大利文字典它也暗示精進與懈怠的意思心靈必須徹底地精進才能找出真理是什麼如果有任何種類的懈怠就是散亂和精力的浪費我們不是在做陳述，這是事實心靈分散在所有煩瑣的事物中閒談、受傷害和傷害他人暴力困在自我中心的活動裡這些都是懈怠而一個宗教的心靈卻要求精進要精準、要正確客觀、內省以至於沒有幻覺、欺瞞完整的人格這才能…稱為宗教的心靈但目前的宗教根本不是宗教所有的宣傳西方的意象與東方的意象整個儀式、服飾等諸如此類的事與宗教毫無關係你也許不同意我的說法如果你是虔誠的基督徒實修的天主教徒或許你根本不會聽當說者去印度時他也跟他們講同樣的話說他們的宗教、迷信、意象所有無意義的儀式都與真理毫無關係許多人說，你應該被燒死或送去集中營如果你活在中世紀或許會有這種下場以異教徒之名受折磨以上帝、和平之名等被送上火刑柱等印度人的沉迷比較多一點他們說你是這些的一部分但這是我們的，不適合你你離開吧
15:02	So what we are saying is: a mind that is religious does not belong to any society, any nationality, has no belief, but such a mind has exercised the quality of doubt so that it questions, doesn’t accept, doesn’t obey the edicts of any religious organisation, sect, gurus. So that it can observe without the observer, which we talked about yesterday and in the previous talks. And our minds have been so conditioned, so captivated, enslaved by all the priests in the world – that is their business. It began with the Egyptians, four thousand five hundred BC, the priests were the directors, the people who knew, they were the interpreters of god and man, they were the middlemen – the retail experts! And that has been continued till now – in India, Asia, in the West. And our minds after two thousand years or five thousand years, have been conditioned to that, that we cannot as human beings find truth for ourselves, somebody must lead us to it, somebody must point out the way because our own minds are incapable of it. That has been the song of three thousand, five thousand years.	我們要說的是一個有宗教情操的心靈不會屬於任何社會任何國籍也沒有信仰這種心靈會運用懷疑的品質因此…它會質疑不接受不服從任何宗教、組織、宗派或上師的敕令它能在沒有觀察者的情況下觀察我們昨天和前幾天都談過我們的心靈被所有的傳教士制約得如此之深被囚禁、奴化得太深這是他們的工作這是從…埃及人開始的西元前 4500 年祭師是監督者，百姓認識的人他們是神與人的詮釋者他們是中間人，零售專家這種事一直持續到今天在印度、亞洲和西方經過兩千或五千年以後我們的心靈都被制約了也就是說，做為人類的我們無法親自找到真理必須要有人帶領我們必須有人為我們指路因為我們的心靈沒有這個能力這就是三、五千年來的主調
18:21	So if one sets aside all that, that there is no saviour, no guru, no sect, no group can lead you to it – is it possible to have such a mind? We are talking over together as one human being to another human being. As we said the other day, and we are repeating it again, if you don’t mind, that we are the rest of mankind, because each one of us goes through all kinds of anxieties, troubles, sorrows, fears, insecurity and it is the same with every human being right through the world. One may live in a more affluent society but inwardly, psychologically there is the same uncertainty, depression, disintegration, anxiety as in the West, as in the East. It is exactly the same, or similar. So we are humanity.	如果有人拋開這一切認為沒有救世主、沒有上師沒有宗派、團體能引導你到真理可能擁有這樣的心靈嗎？我們在一起談論如同一個人對另一個人我們前幾天說過如果你們不介意我要再重複一遍我們就是其他的人類因為我們每個人都會經歷各種焦慮、麻煩哀傷、恐懼、不安全感全世界的每一個人也一樣也許有人生活在比較富裕的社會但內在的心理世界卻是一樣的不確定、沮喪、解離、焦慮西方與東方世界都一樣完全一樣或…類似因此我們…我們是人類
20:28	And so when we are talking about religion, we are concerned with a mind that is religious, not a particular religious mind. If it is a particular religious mind, it is not a religious mind. I hope you are meeting this. Religion, as we said, implies a mind that is free from negligence – neglecting the whole movement of learning. Not learning from books only but learning the movement of oneself, the movement of thought, what it does, its consequences, learning about attachment, its consequences, learning. Not learning about something, but the quality of a mind that is learning, not merely accumulating knowledge but moving without a particular direction – the quality of learning. I hope you understand all this. And that learning brings about its own discipline. Discipline means to learn, not to follow, not to imitate, not to conform, not to compare, but to learn about comparison, about imitation, about conformity. Such a mind is a diligent mind, learning about the actual so-called religions of the world. If you understand one religion of which you are, you understand the whole of the world’s religions, you don’t have to read all the books about various religions, or go through comparative religious studies. If you know how the human mind works then you have understood the whole religious structure and their rituals and their nonsense.	當我們談論宗教時我們關心的是有宗教情操的心靈不是一個特定的宗教心靈如果是特定的宗教心靈那就不是宗教心靈希望我們有交會我們說過，宗教暗示著一個擺脫懈怠的心靈對整個學習活動的懈怠不只是從書本上學習而是學習自己的活動思想的活動它做些什麼，它的後果學習依附是什麼它的後果，學習不是學習某一個事物而是指學習的心靈品質不只是累積知識而是…沒有特定方向的前進而是學習的品質希望你們了解這些那種學習會帶來它獨有的紀律紀律的意思就是學習不是跟隨、不是模仿不是順從、不是比較而是了解比較是什麼模仿是什麼、順從是什麼這種心靈就是精進的心靈學習所謂的宗教是什麼如果你了解一個宗教也就是你自己就能了解全世界的宗教你不必閱讀所有與宗教有關的書籍或進行比較宗教學的研究如果你知道人類的心靈如何運作就會了解整個宗教結構儀式和無意義的活動
23:50	And why has man always talked about religion? From the ancient Egyptians and before them, religion has played an extraordinary part in life – why? Is it that we are seeking happiness, peace, an end which will not be destructive, secure, peaceful, and demanding that and not finding it in life, not finding all that in our daily life, we project. Thought projects something that is enduring, something that is eternal, something that cannot be corrupted, something beyond all imagination, all thought. One projects that as opposite of our own condition and then worships that. This is what has happened, if you have observed, not only now but throughout history. Man wants to escape from himself because he lives in a constant, bitter anxiety, struggle, pain. And he wants to find something beyond all that. So he lives in a world of make-believe. This is a fact, and that is not a fact. Can we be free of the non-fact and live with facts, and transform the facts? You understand what I am saying? Please let’s move together, we have got a lot to talk together this morning.	人為什麼始終在談論宗教？從古埃及人與更早的人開始宗教就在生活中扮演不尋常的角色為什麼？是因為我們追求快樂、和平這一類沒有破壞性安全、祥和的目的由於在生活中找不到在日常生活中找不到我們就投射思想投射一個持久的東西一個永恆的東西一個不會腐敗的東西一個超越所有想像和思想的東西人投射出那個來抗衡我們的處境接著就膜拜那個這是已經發生的事如果你有觀察不只是現在發生也縱貫整個歷史之中人想逃避自己因為他持續地活在苦澀焦慮、掙扎與痛苦之中他想找一個超越這一切的東西因此他活在一個虛假的世界裡這是事實，那個不是事實我們能擺脫非事實與事實共存進而轉化事實嗎？了解我說什麼嗎？請跟我一起前進今早有很多要談的
26:57	Which means, a mind that has no escape. After all, the rituals, all that goes on in the name of religion, has actually nothing whatsoever to do with our daily life, and therefore it is an escape from this daily torture. It may not be torture, it may be a conflict, may be pain, may be anxiety. So a mind that escapes from what actually is going on is not a religious mind. That is not a dogmatic statement. It is logical, sane, rational. And if it isn’t actual religion, believing something, we commit ourselves to some form, or follow somebody who has clever interpretations and we commit ourselves to that. So the mind is never free to observe itself. And all such escapes, all such commitments, is negligence. It is not a dogmatic statement. So don’t brush it aside as being dogmatic. We are investigating the very complex process of living. And if we do not understand that, if we are not free of our sorrow, of our pain, of our anxiety, of our depression, of our neurosis, to find what truth is becomes an illusion, meaningless. What we have to do first is to clear the decks, as it were. Lay the foundation in our life, in our daily life so that there is not a shadow of conflict, which we talked about the other day.	這意味著一個不逃避的心靈畢竟那些儀式那些以宗教之名進行的活動都與我們的日常生活毫無關係也因此是逃避…逃避日常生活的折磨也許不是折磨，也許是衝突也許是痛苦，也許是焦慮一個逃避…實際現狀的心靈就不是宗教心靈這不是武斷的陳述是邏輯、理智、理性的如果不是實際的宗教信仰某個東西我們就會奉獻於某種形式… 或追隨某個善於詮釋的人我們就奉獻於…那個因此心靈永遠無法自由地觀察自己所有這一類的逃避、承諾都是懈怠這不是武斷的陳述不要用武斷來抹煞它我們在探究生活的複雜過程如果我們不了解這些如果沒有擺脫哀傷、痛苦、焦慮沮喪和神經質尋求真理就會變成幻覺與無意義的事我們首先要做的是清艙為生活，日常生活奠定基礎以至於沒有衝突的陰影前幾天已經討論過
30:10	So we are saying, together we are investigating, and seeing, can such a mind come about? Not through will, because that is again meaningless. Not through compulsion, not through reward or punishment. We have tried all that. And we are still where we are! So if we are serious, and life demands that we be serious, circumstances demand that we be serious. The world, which is destroying itself through nationalism, division and so on, seeing all that, merely verbally discussing, arguing has very little value, but if we are serious to find out whether the human mind, human condition can be changed, radically, then such a mind must inevitably enquire, not only into various parts of life but the whole structure of life, the whole pattern of living.	我們要說的是我們一起探究和了解這種心靈能夠引發嗎？不是透過意志因為意志同樣毫無意義不是透過強迫不是透過獎賞或懲罰這些我們都試過我們仍在原地踏步如果我們是認真的生命也要求我們認真以待環境要求我們認真以待世界正在自我毀滅透過國族主義、分化等看見這一切單純的言說討論、論辯沒有多大價值但如果我們認真地想找出來人類的心靈與狀況是否能改變基進地改變那麼…這種心靈必然要參究不只是生命的局部而是生命的整個結構生活的整個模式
32:04	And, as we said, one of the factors of this is death. We have banished religion from our life. We have banished death from our life. We have postponed it. Why do we do this? Why do we, human minds, banish the actual demand for truth? Not live in illusions, but why have we – religiously, I am talking about – banished the demand that we live a tremendously diligent life? Why? You understand my question? Because probably most of us want an easy way. We are probably very lazy. We never make supreme demand of ourselves. We are always satisfied with the little things of life, not respond to a great challenge. And also we have banished death from our life – why? Is not death part of life? Whether we are young or old, diseased or senile – rather interesting to find out why human beings become senile. I don’t know if you are interested in that. No, seriously I am talking. Why human beings become senile? You understand my question? Why? As one grows older senility begins slowly. We forget, we repeat we become either rather childish or join one of the recognised religious organisations – which is also senility. No, please don’t laugh. This is not a laughing matter. This is what is happening in the world. And the tragedy of it.	我們說過其中一個元素就是死亡我們把宗教摒除於生命之外把死亡摒除於生命之外，對嗎？我們在延遲死亡我們為何這麼做？我們為什麼，人類的心靈摒棄…對真理的實際要求？不是活在幻覺裡但我們為什麼…我講的是宗教方面摒棄我們… 對高度精進生活的需求？為什麼？了解我的問題嗎？或許多數人想要輕易的方式或許我們非常懶惰從未對自己提出最高的要求始終滿足於生活中的渺小事物不想回應重大的挑戰我們也把死亡從生命中摒除了為什麼？死亡不是生命的一部分嗎？無論我們年輕或年老生病或衰老探究人類為何衰老是一件相當有趣的事不知你們是否有興趣不，我說真的人類為何會衰老？了解我的問題嗎？為什麼？隨著年齡的增長衰老也逐漸開始了我們會健忘、會重複若不是變得幼稚就是加入一個被認可的宗教組織這也是一種衰老不，請不要笑這不是一件可笑的事是世界正在發生的事也是世界的悲劇
35:53	So if your mother, if your husband, if your son, if your daughter, is already beginning to be senile, you wouldn’t laugh, you would cry. And we are asking, as a side issue, why human beings become senile? Look at it, sir. What is senility? The brain cells wear themselves out. This is a fact. By constant effort, constant struggle, this everlasting desire to become something, the inward stress, inward strain, which must inevitably affect the brain. Must, logically. And also, senility comes inevitably when there is such division, a great gulf between business, family, religion, and entertainment. You understand? This division, which is schizophrenic. I wonder if you realise all this!	如果你的母親、丈夫或兒女開始衰老的時候你就笑不出來了你會哭我們要問一個…枝節問題人類為什麼會衰老？注視它，先生衰老是什麼？腦細胞耗損了，對嗎？這是事實持續的努力、持續的掙扎永無休止地想變成什麼內在的壓力和張力這必然會影響頭腦，對嗎？邏輯上的必然衰老也是難以避免的當事業、家庭、宗教和娛樂之間有分化有這個巨大的鴻溝時了解嗎？這種分化也就是精神分裂症不知你們能不能體會
38:01	So this constant struggle to be, or to become and then not to become, which is the same thing, to become, must inevitably wear out the cells of the brain faster than they can renew themselves – you understand this? And the brain has the capacity to renew itself. We talked about the other day, having an insight – you remember? Perhaps some of you were here. That is, sir, to have an insight into the whole question of religion. What is religion? Not all the rituals, and all that circus that goes on, but why human beings have sought from time beyond measure, why human beings have sought some kind of otherness, to have an insight into that – not through logic, not through reason, not through knowledge, not through accumulation of argument, and opinion opposing another opinion, but to find the truth of it, which is to have an insight into the whole demand of man wanting something beyond. You are following all this? That insight, as we said, brings about a mutation in the brain cells. I have discussed this with several other scientists, some of them agree, so perhaps you will too.	想維持現狀的持續掙扎想變成或不變成什麼都是同一回事必然會…磨損腦細胞比細胞自我更新的速度還快了解嗎？頭腦有自我更新的能力我們前幾天談過擁有洞見，記得嗎？或許有些人在現場也就是說，先生對整個宗教問題擁有一份洞見宗教是什麼？不是儀式和雜耍之類的東西人類為什麼自無量劫以來人類為什麼要尋找某一種超世之物？對這個問題有洞見不是透過邏輯不是透過理性或知識不是透過論辯的累積或彼此對立的意見而是找出它的真理也就是洞見人類的整個需求想要一個超世的東西你們明白嗎？那個洞見，我們說過會帶來…腦細胞的突變我跟幾位科學家討論過有些人同意或許你們也會同意
40:32	So can the mind keep young, never grow senile? You understand my question? After all innocence means not to hurt and not to be hurt. The meaning of that word is that: not to hurt and not to be hurt. Such a mind which has never been hurt. You follow all this? Such a mind can never become senile. You understand? And that requires a great diligence of learning about itself.	心靈能常保…青春永遠不會衰老嗎？了解我的問題嗎？畢竟，純真意味著不傷害…也不受傷害這個字的意思是不傷害也不受傷害這種從來沒受過傷害的心靈你們明白嗎？這種心靈永遠不會…永遠不會衰老了解嗎？這需要高度精進地了解自己
41:52	So, as we were saying, to come back from senility: why have we banished death from our life? Which means, why have our minds become caught in time? Please, this is not intellectual fireworks. This is enquiring into our complex life. Time is by the day, yesterday, today and tomorrow, twenty four hours. But also there is time which is inward. Psychological time. We are following this? We are asking why the human mind is caught in psychological time? Are you following all this? Please, we are talking over together. I am not talking to myself. We are asking, why has the mind been crippled by yesterday’s memories, regrets, attachments – and strangely attachments are always in the past – I won’t go into it now. By yesterday, a thousand yesterdays, today, modified itself and the future, which is time movement. This movement is time, psychologically. We are asking, why is the mind caught in that? Which is time. That is, hope plays an important part in our life. ‘I hope to become’, ‘I hope to meet you tomorrow’ – psychologically. I'll meet you tomorrow, but I have already projected my desire to meet you and created a hope out of that. You understand all that?	我們再從衰老的話題回來我們為什麼要把死亡從生命中摒除？這意味著為什麼心靈為什麼困在時間裡？請了解，這不是知性的煙花這是參究我們複雜的生命以日子計算的時間昨天、今天、明天 24 個小時還有一種內在的時間，對嗎？心理時間對嗎？懂了嗎？我們要問，人類的心靈為什麼會困在心理時間裡？你們明白嗎？我們是在一起討論我不是在自言自語我們要問的是心靈為什麼被昨天的記憶摧殘得跛了腳？懊悔、執著奇怪的是，執著的對象始終是在過去我現在不詳談一千個昨天、今天自我修正、未來也就是時間的活動這個活動就是時間心理時間，對嗎？我們問的是心靈為何困在其中？也就是時間，對嗎？也就是說…希望希望在生活中扮演了重要的角色我希望能變成我希望明天跟你見面心理上的我明天會跟你見面我已經投射想見你的欲望並從中創造了一個希望你們了解嗎？
45:05	So we are saying, why does the mind live in time? It has evolved in time. To have the present mind that we have it has evolved through millennia, thousands of years. And that is normal, healthy, obvious. But we are asking, why psychologically, inwardly time has become so important? You understand my question? You are asking yourself, please. Is it because we are always avoiding ‘what is’ in order to become something else? You understand what I am saying? Moving from this to that. Psychologically I am this, but I should not be this but that. Psychologically I am unhappy but I must be happy. The ‘must’, or ‘will’, or ‘shall be’ is the movement of time. I wonder if you are following. Please, it’s your life. So, the mind is caught in time because it is always moving away from this, from ‘what is’. 'It will change in time', ‘I will be good, give me time’, which is like developing a muscle. Your muscle may be not sufficiently strong but if you keep on doing something to strengthen it, it will become strong. With the same mentality we say, ‘I am this, I will be that, so give me time’. And shall ‘what is’ be changed through time? You understand my question? I am anxious, I have great anxiety. Can that anxiety be changed through time? You understand my question? That is, will I become, or be in a state where I have no anxiety? See what I have done. I have anxiety, I have projected a state of not being anxious, and to arrive at that state I must have time. But I never say can this anxiety I have be changed immediately. You understand my question? And not allow time. Are you following this? See what happens. I am anxious. I hope to be not anxious. There is a time interval, a lag. In that lag of time all other activities are going on, other pressures, negligence. You understand? So anxiety is never solved. I don’t know if you are following all this.	我們要問的是心智為什麼活在時間裡？心智在時間裡演化，對嗎？我們現在的心智經過了幾千年的演化這是正常、健康、明顯的但我們要問，為什麼心理上和內在時間變得這麼重要？了解我的問題嗎？請你們問自己是因為我們始終在迴避「是然」只為了變成別的什麼？了解我說什麼嗎？從這個移動到那個心理上，我是這個但我不應該是這個，而是那個心理上我不快樂但我必須要快樂，對嗎？「必須是」、「將是」「未來是」就是時間的活動你們明白嗎？拜託，這是你們的生命因此，心智就困在時間裡因為它始終在偏離這個偏離「是然」，對嗎？它會在時間裡改變我會變好，給我時間這就像鍛鍊肌肉一樣，對嗎？你的肌肉也許不夠強壯但如果你一直做運動強化它它就會變強壯我們以同樣的心態說我是這個，我會變成那個因此給我時間，對嗎？那麼…「是然」可以透過時間改變嗎？了解我的問題嗎？比如說我…焦慮我有高度的焦慮這個焦慮能夠透過時間改變嗎？了解我的問題嗎？也就是說，我會變成… 或處於沒有焦慮的狀態嗎？看我做了什麼？我有焦慮我投射一個沒有焦慮的狀態要達到那個狀態我必須有時間但我從來不問我的焦慮能不能立刻改變？了解我的問題嗎？不容許時間進來你們明白嗎？看發生什麼事我焦慮，我希望沒有焦慮其中有時間的間隔，延遲在那個時間的延遲裡所有的活動都在進行其他的壓力、懈怠了解嗎？焦慮永遠無法解決不知你們明白沒有？
49:59	I think I will come to a state when I have no anxiety, so I am struggling, struggling, struggling. It is like a man who is violent, has invented non-violence, in that time interval he is violent, so he never reaches non-violence. I wonder if you understand all this.	我認為我會達到一個沒有焦慮的狀態因此我奮鬥、奮鬥再奮鬥就像一個暴力的人發明了非暴力在這個時間的間隔裡他是暴力的因此他永遠達不到非暴力不知你們了不了解
50:32	So the question is then, can ‘what is’ be transformed immediately? Which means never allowing time to interfere. Are you coming together? Listen to this, you will find out, it is really simple. If we apply our mind we can solve anything, as has been done, they have been to the moon, built marvellous submarines, incredible things they have done. Here, psychologically we are so reluctant, so incapable, or have made ourselves incapable. So if you do not allow time, or never think in terms of time, then the fact is not. I wonder if you see that. Because we allow time the fact becomes important. If there is no time it is resolved. Suppose I die this second, there is no problem. You understand what I am saying? When I allow time I am afraid of death. I wonder if you understand all this. But if I live without time, which is an extraordinary thing if you go into it psychologically. Time means accumulation. Time means remembrance. Time means accumulating knowledge about oneself, all that involves time. But when there is no time at all, psychologically, there is nothing. You follow? You are capturing something? Are you understanding something? Please, come on.	接下來的問題是「是然」能立刻轉化嗎？這意味著不容許時間干預我們有交會嗎？聽我說，你們會發現真的很簡單只要運用心智就可以解決任何事情正如人類登陸月球一樣建造神奇的潛水艇完成了不可思議的事但心理上，我們如此不願意如此無能或讓自己變得無能如果你不容許時間進來或絕不以時間的角度思考事實就不存在了，對嗎？不知你們是否了解由於我們容許時間進來事實才會變得重要如果沒有時間，問題就解決了假如我在這一秒鐘死掉我就沒有問題了解我說什麼嗎？當我容許時間進來時我就會害怕死亡不知你們是否了解如果我活在無時間裡如果你深入這是非比尋常的事，心理上的時間意味著累積，對嗎？時間意味著記憶時間意味著累積與自己有關的知識這些都牽涉到時間但時間完全不存在時心理上的那就一無所有了，明白嗎？有體會到什麼嗎？有了解什麼嗎？請說呀
53:05	So we are saying, rather, thinking together, because we have allowed time as a factor to intervene between living and dying, fear arises. So unless you understand the nature of living, and therefore the nature of dying, which can be found in the living. You understand? Are you meeting me? No. That is, death is the ending, isn’t it? The ending. The ending of my possessions, my wife, my children, my house, my bank account – specially bank account. The ending of something. In that ending there is no argument. I don’t say to death, ‘Please, hold on a minute’. So where there is ending, a beginning. You follow? I will go into it.	我們要說的是…不如說在一起思考由於我們容許時間這個因素進來干涉生活與死亡恐懼就生起了，對嗎？因此…除非你了解生活的本質進而了解死亡的本質這個本質能在生活中找到明白嗎？我們有交會嗎？沒有也就是說死亡是結束，不是嗎？結束我的所有物的結束我的妻子、子女、房子我的銀行存款尤其是銀行存款一個東西的結束那個結束裡沒有爭辯，對嗎？我不會對死亡說請你再多等一會，對嗎？因此有結束的地方…就有開始明白嗎？我會深入談
55:03	Suppose I, the speaker, when the speaker ends attachment completely, not to persons, to ideas, but to the whole process of attachment, with all the consequences of attachment, when there is an ending to it there is a totally different state of mind. Isn’t there? I have been attached to my furniture, and that attachment has been a burden and with the ending of that burden there is freedom. So ending is more important than beginning. So can I, living, end? End my anxiety, my fears? End, not the bank account because that is too risky. No, I mean that. We are not going to end the bank account. I am not talking of that. Ending psychologically. Ending my uncertainty. When I am confused, to end it, not say, ‘I must find out why I am confused, what is the cause of confusion, and I must be free from confusion’ – all that is time. That is negligence. I wonder if you follow this? Whereas diligence is to be aware of the whole movement of time and to end anxiety immediately. Therefore there is no accumulation psychologically as knowledge.	假設我，說者當說者徹底地結束依附明白嗎？不是對人、對觀念而是整個依附的過程伴隨著依附的所有後果當依附結束時就會有全然不同的心態，對嗎？不是嗎？我一直依附於我的家具，我的… 那個依附已經變成了負擔隨著那個負擔結束而來的就是自由，對嗎？因此，結束比開始更重要，對嗎？因此我…生命可以結束嗎？結束我的焦慮、恐懼，我的…明白嗎？結束，不是銀行存款因為風險太大了不，我說真的我們不會結束銀行存款我談的不是那個心理上的結束，了解嗎？結束我的不確定感當我有混淆時，結束它！不是說，我必須找出混淆的原因混淆的肇因是什麼我必須擺脫那個混淆這些都是時間這就是懈怠不知你們懂不懂精進就是覺察整個時間的活動並立刻終止…焦慮因此心理上就沒有知識的累積，對嗎？
57:37	Now, death is ending. Ending of everything. I know what you will say afterwards, ‘What about reincarnation?’ I know all that. We will come to it if we have time. I am not avoiding it. If I say I don’t know, I’ll say I don’t know. I don’t play hypocrisy with all this. Death is an ending and I am living. We are living, active, business, all the rest of it. Can we psychologically end everything? You understand what I am saying? Can you end your attachment instantly, immediately? Your anger, your violence, your greed, your this and that, end while living? Therefore then living is dying. You understand? Not living and ultimately die. I wonder if you follow this. Living means the dying otherwise you are not alive. And most of us are frightened of dying because we have never been able to live properly, we have never lived. But we have lived in conflict, in struggle, in pain, in anxiety, etc. So we call that living. Living is not all that. So, if all that can be ended then there is living. So you are then living and dying. They go together, like a flower with perfume, the perfume is not away from the flower, it is there.	死亡就是結束所有事物的結束我知道你們會問什麼那輪迴呢？我知道有時間會談我沒有迴避它如果我不知道，我就說不知道我不會玩偽君子那一套死亡是結束，我現在活著對嗎？我們活著活躍、事業諸如此類的事我們能在心理上結束一切嗎？明白我說什麼嗎？你能立刻、即時地結束你的依附嗎？你的忿怒、暴力、貪婪你的這個和那個在活著的時候結束？因此活著就是死亡了解嗎？不是活到最後再死不知你們聽懂沒有活著就意味著死亡否則你就不是活著我們多數人…都害怕死亡因為…我們從未適當地活過我們從未活過，了解嗎？而是活在衝突、爭鬥、痛苦和焦慮等裡面我們把這個稱為生活生活完全不是這些如果這些都能結束那就是生活了因此你活的同時也在死亡明白嗎？生死是並存的就像花朵與花香花香離不開花朵它就在那裡
1:00:28	And this is actual ending of senility, if you want to go into it very deeply, so your mind never gets old. A machine with internal combustion, like a car, is always wearing itself out because of friction. But when there is no friction whatsoever the mind keeps... But it is not your mind, it is the human mind. I wonder if you understand this. Because you, your mind is the result of a million years, your mind is the mind of the Indian, of the Chinese, Russian, the other human beings, because they go through similar pain, anxiety, sorrow, pleasures, occasional joys and occasional love. So our brain, our mind is the mind of humanity. If you can understand that one real fact, then we will live without any division, which is causing such disaster in the world.	這就是實際地結束衰老如果你願意深入的話你的心永遠不會變老一部有內燃機的機器，例如汽車始終在磨損自己因為磨擦的關係，對嗎？但當沒有任何磨擦時心靈就會維持…明白嗎？但那不是你的心靈是人類的心靈不知你們了不了解因為你的心靈是一百萬年的結果你的心靈是印度人、中國人和俄國人其他人類的心靈因為他們也經歷類似的痛苦、焦慮、哀傷、享樂偶而的喜悅和愛因此我們的頭腦，心靈就是人類的心靈如果你們能了解這一個真正的事實我們就能沒有分化地活著為世界製造多災多難的分化
1:02:24	Now with regard to reincarnation, what is it that reincarnates? That is, I am living, I shall die and I hope next life I will have an opportunity to live in a bigger house. Please, no. Or a better life, more money, this or that or the other. Now, what is it that continues? You understand my question? Please, this you have to think it out together carefully. I have lived fifty years, thirty years, a hundred years. I have accumulated a great deal of information, knowledge. I have struggled, I have tried to be virtuous, I have tried to be all that. And there is this accumulated entity. The ‘me’ that has accumulated, struggled, achieved, experienced, been through sorrow, depression, poverty, every kind of penury. And I die. And I say to myself, ‘Why shouldn’t I go on, so that I will improve myself next life?’ By good deeds, by... etc., I will be better. So what is this centre which has accumulated, remembered, suffered, what is that centre? You understand? If that centre has a continuity, then there is reincarnation. It will reincarnate next life, the soul – the Christian, the Hindus have a different word for it and so on. But the essence of that is the centre, right? You can call it by whatever name you like but it is that. Now what is that centre? Is it permanent? If it is permanent, it can go on modifying itself, changing itself, but the core of it will go on. I wonder if you are following all this? It is fairly simple.	有關輪迴這件事在輪迴的是什麼？了解嗎？也就是說，我活著但會有死的一天我希望下一世有機會住一棟更大的房子不，請不要笑或更好的生活、更多錢更多這個或那個那個會延續的是什麼？了解我的問題嗎？請非常仔細地思考這個問題我活了 50 年、30 年、100 年我累積了相當多的資訊、知識我奮鬥過，我試著培養美德試過各種方式這個累積下來的實體，對嗎？這個累積下來的我奮鬥、成就、經驗經歷過哀傷、沮喪貧窮，各種貧乏然後我死了我對自己說我為什麼不繼續下去好讓來世能自我改善？藉由善行等等我會變得更好，對嗎？這個累積、記憶和受苦的中心是什麼那個中心是什麼？了解嗎？如果那個中心有延續性那就會有輪迴，對嗎？它會在下一世輪迴靈魂，基督徒的說法印度人用不同的字眼但那個的本質是中心，對嗎？無論你用什麼名稱，但就是那個那個中心是什麼？它是恆常不變的嗎？如果是恆常的它就會持續下去，對嗎？修正自己、改變自己但它的核心會繼續下去不知你們聽懂沒有非常簡單
1:05:20	So we have to find out what that centre is. If we say it is the centre of God, then that centre which is creating such mischief, God must also be mischievous. I wonder if you meet all this. Or that centre is put together by thought. You understand? The name, the form, the family, my previous families, my father, mother and so on, genetically, heredity, the accumulation of all the pain and sorrow of generations, is that centre, put together by thought. I say I am a Hindu. You say you are a Catholic because you have been from childhood trained to accept Catholicism. And I, born in India, if I am stupid enough, I say, ‘Yes, I am a Hindu’. So that centre is the result of continuous, modifying movement of thought. I know the people who believe in reincarnation will object to all this because they like to believe that they have a future. It may be illusory, nonsensical, but it gives them comfort. And we all want comfort, in one way or the other. So, dying means the ending of that also. And when there is an ending of it, the mind is totally different. I wonder if you see. It is no longer accumulating. It is no longer experiencing. It isn’t dead, it isn’t static, but so alive there is nothing to collect – you understand?	我們得找出那個中心是什麼如果我們說那是上帝的中心，對嗎？那麼那個創造這一場鬧劇的中心上帝一定也是胡鬧，對嗎？不知你們了不了解或者…那個中心是思想組成的了解嗎？名字、形相、家庭我前世的家庭我的父親、母親等基因上、遺傳的世世代代累積的痛苦和哀傷就是那個中心，對嗎？是由思想組合起來的我說我是印度教徒你說你是天主教徒因為你從小就被訓練要你接受天主教義我，在印度出生，如果夠蠢的話我會說，我是印度教徒因此那個中心就是思想活動持續修正的結果，對嗎？我知道相信輪迴的人會反對我這麼說因為他們想要相信自己有未來這也許是幻覺、毫無道理但卻帶給他們安慰我們都想要安慰任何方式的安慰因此…死亡也意味那個的結束當它結束時心靈就會截然不同不知你們明白沒有心靈已經不再累積了已經不再經驗了它不是死了，不是靜止不動而是太鮮活了，以至於沒有可累積之物，了解嗎？
1:08:22	Then there is the problem now – not a problem: what is meditation? Please, take proper positions! I can see it happening! You know, man, human beings have always sought, because their minds are everlastingly chattering, everlastingly moving from one thing to another, driven by desire, driven by reward and avoidance, pain, it is always trying to find some kind of quietness, some kind of peace in which at least for ten minutes it can be quiet. So man has sought this. Go to the church, sit there quietly. Go to a marvellous cathedral when there is no circus going on, and be quiet. And it is a strange fact that in all these churches there is never a moment of quietness, except when it is empty. You understand what I am saying? The priest is doing something, you are doing something, everybody is chanting, replying, incense, this, that – never, never quiet, except when the cathedral is really empty of human beings. The same in the temples, the same in the mosques. Is it because those people in authority of the church, temple and so on, never want you to be quiet so that you will begin to question? You understand? Because if you are quiet you might enquire. If you are quiet you might begin to doubt. But if you are occupied all the time, you never have time to look around, to question, to doubt, to ask. That may be one of the great tricks of human mind.	接下來的問題是，不是問題冥想是什麼？請你們擺好坐姿我看到它在發生了人，人類始終在追尋因為心智永不止息地嘮叨永不止息地到處奔馳被欲望驅使被趨樂避苦所驅使它始終想找到一種寧靜的狀態，對嗎？至少有十分鐘安靜的祥和，對嗎？人在追求這個去教堂，安靜地坐在裡面去壯觀的大教堂沒有馬戲進行的時候就可以安靜下來一個奇怪的事實是在這些教堂裡從來沒有片刻的安靜除了空無一人的時候了解我說什麼嗎？牧師在做什麼，你也在做什麼大家都在唱頌、回答、燒香等等從來沒有片刻安靜除了空無一人的大教堂以外寺廟也是同樣的情形清真寺也一樣這是因為教堂和寺廟等的權威人士不想讓你安靜以免你開始質疑了解嗎？因為你安靜下來也許會參究如果你安靜下來，也許會質疑但如果讓你從頭忙到尾你就沒有環顧、質問、懷疑和發問的時間這也許是人類心智的偉大詐術之一
1:11:48	So we are asking what is meditation. And why should one meditate? Is it natural? Natural – you understand? Like breathing, like seeing, like hearing. Is it natural? And why have we made it so unnatural? Taking postures, following systems. Buddhist meditation, Tibetan meditation, Christian meditation, the Tantra meditations. You don’t know them perhaps. Some of you may know. And the meditations set by your favourite guru. We are asking, aren’t all those really abnormal? Are you following? Why should I take a certain position to meditate? Why should I practise, practise, practise – to arrive where? You understand my question? To follow a system: twenty minutes in the morning, twenty minutes in the afternoon, twenty minutes in the evening, to have a quiet mind. Having achieved a little quiet mind I can go off and do other mischief all day long. These are actual facts I am telling you.	因此我們要問冥想是什麼人為什麼要冥想？它是自然的嗎？自然，你們明白嗎？像呼吸、看、聽一樣它是自然的嗎？我們為何把它變得如此不自然？擺姿勢、遵循系統佛教的靜坐、西藏的靜坐基督教的靜坐，明白嗎？密教（檀崔）的靜坐你們或許不了解，有些人會以及你喜歡的上師制定的靜坐方式我們要問的是這些是不是很不正常？你們明白嗎？我為什麼要擺出某種姿勢才能靜坐？我為什麼修練、修練再修練只為了要到哪裡？了解我的問題嗎？遵循一個系統早上 20 分鐘，下午 20 分鐘晚上 20 分鐘為了有一個安靜的心靈達到某一程度的安靜以後我就可以整天做其他的把戲我說的是實際發生的事實
1:13:41	Is there a way of meditating which is none of these things? You understand my question? Until now, we say meditation is to quieten the mind, first, to have a mind that is capable of observation. To have a mind that is completely centred, completely concentrated. So that there is no thought except one thought. One picture, one image, one centre upon which you are looking. I don’t know if you have gone through all this. The speaker has played with them, for half an hour of each of these meditations, ten minutes, five minutes, and they meant nothing.	有一種與這些無關的… 另一種冥想嗎？了解我的問題嗎？至今為止，我們說冥想是先讓心靈安靜下來擁有一個能觀察的心靈擁有一個完全處於中心的心靈，對嗎？完全專注以至於除了一個念頭以外別無其他念頭，對嗎？一個圖像、一個意象一個…讓你觀照的中心，對嗎？不知道你們經驗過沒有說者玩過這些把戲每一種各玩半個小時 10 分鐘、5 分鐘，結果毫無意義
1:15:07	So you have to go into this question – who is the controller and the controlled? Are you getting tired? Our whole life, if you observe, is this – controlling and not controlling. I must control my emotions, I must control my thinking. I can only control my thinking by constant practice. And to practise I must have a system. The system implies a mechanical process, making the mind mechanical, more and more, and it is already mechanical now but we want to make it much more so that it gradually becomes more and more dull. We go through all this. Why? If you are meditating according to TM, or according to somebody else, why? Because you want to have an experience either through drugs, and you know drugs do you harm, therefore you say no, you put that aside, but by practising something you will experience something else.	因此你必須深入這個問題控制者和被控制的是誰？了解嗎？你們累了嗎？如果你們觀察過人的一生就是… 控制與不控制，對嗎？我必須控制我的情緒我必須控制我的思考我只能透過持續的練習才能控制思考要練習就必須有一套系統系統暗示了一個機械化的過程讓心靈變得越來越機械化心靈現在就機械化了但我們要它更機械化因此它逐漸變得更遲鈍我們都經歷過這些，對嗎？為什麼？如果你依照超覺靜坐的方式，對嗎？或根據別人的方式，為什麼？因為你想有經驗一則是透過藥物你們知道藥物會造成傷害因此你拒絕使用藥物但透過修練你就能經驗到別的東西
1:16:53	I don’t know if you have ever gone into the question of experience; why human beings are demanding experience. Either the mind is asleep, therefore an experience means a challenge. Or the mind is awake and therefore doesn’t need an experience. I don’t know if you are following this. So one has to find out if your mind is asleep, or bored with the experience that you have, sex, drugs, all the rest of other experiences, you want something far beyond all that. Because you are always craving for experience: more delightful, more extravagant, the more communicable, etc. Why does the mind demand experience? Ask yourself, please. There is only one thing: a mind that is very clear, is free from all entanglements of attachment and so on, such a mind is a light to itself. Therefore it doesn’t want any experience, there is nothing to experience. You cannot experience enlightenment. The very idea of experience, it is such a stupid thing to say, ‘I have achieved enlightenment’ – it is really dishonest. You cannot experience truth because there must be an experiencer to experience. If there is no experiencer, there is no experience at all. I wonder if you see that. But we are attached to our experiencer and therefore we are always asking more and more.	不知道你們有沒有探討過經驗的問題人類為什麼會需求經驗？一則…是心靈在睡覺因此經驗就意味著挑戰，對嗎？或者心靈清醒著因此它不需要任何經驗不知道你們聽懂沒有因此你必須找出來你的心靈是否在睡覺或者厭煩了你已經有的經驗性、毒品等所有的其他經驗你想要一個超越這一切的東西因為你始終渴求經驗更愉悅的、更有噱頭的更能溝通的等心靈為什麼會需求經驗？請自問這個問題答案只有一個一個非常清明的心靈會擺脫所有依附的糾纏等這種心靈是自己的光，對嗎？因此它不需要任何經驗沒有任何要經驗的東西你無法經驗開悟經驗這個觀念本身是一個非常愚蠢的東西我已經成就開悟了這是很不誠實的說法你無法經驗真理，對嗎？因為其中必須要有一個經驗經驗的經驗者，對嗎？如果沒有經驗者那就根本沒有經驗不知你們明白嗎？但我們執著於自己的經驗者因此始終在追求更多、更多的經驗
1:19:49	So meditation generally as is accepted now, is the practice of a system, breathing properly, sitting in the right position, the lotus position or whatever position you take, wanting or craving for greater experience, or the ultimate experience. This is what we are doing. And therefore all that is a constant struggle, a never ending struggle. This never ending struggle is hoping to end all struggles. You understand? Look what I have done. I am struggling, struggling, struggling to end struggling, which is sometime in the future. See what tricks I have played on myself. I am caught in time. I don’t say, ‘Why should I struggle at all?’ If I can end this struggle, that is enlightenment. To have no shadow of conflict. But we do not want to make all those efforts. We are caught in time. And to be free of time is to be free to have pure observation, and then the mind becomes extraordinarily quiet. You don’t have to make the mind quiet – you understand this? If you end all conflict the mind naturally becomes quiet. And when the mind is absolutely silent, without any movement of thought then perhaps you will see something, perhaps there is something sacred beyond all words. And this, man has sought everlastingly, something that is beyond measure, beyond thought, which is incorruptible, unnameable, eternal. That can only take place when the mind is absolutely free and completely silent.	就目前普遍接受的靜坐來說就是一個系統的修習適當的呼吸擺好正確的坐姿蓮花座或其他姿勢渴望或渴求更偉大的經驗或終極的經驗，對嗎？這就是我們在做的事因此這一切都是一場持續的奮鬥，對嗎？永無止境的奮鬥這個永無止境的奮鬥希望終結所有的奮鬥了解嗎？看看我做了什麼我奮鬥、奮鬥、奮鬥為了終結奮鬥在未來某個時間的終結，對嗎？看看我跟自己玩弄什麼把戲我困在時間裡，對嗎？我不問：我為什麼要奮鬥？如果我能終止這個奮鬥開悟就在那裡，了解嗎？沒有衝突的陰影但我們不想付出…努力我們困在時間裡，對嗎？擺脫時間就是擁有純觀察的自由然後，心靈就會變得無比安靜你不必讓心靈安靜了解嗎？如果你終止所有的衝突心靈自然會安靜下來當心靈絕對地靜默時沒有任何思想的活動或許你會看到… 或許有一個超越言說的神聖之物這就是人永無止境地追求的東西一個超越計度、超越思想的東西不可毀滅、無以名狀永恆的東西這只能在心靈絕對自由且徹底靜默的時候發生
1:23:15	So one must begin very near – you understand? Very near. And when you begin very near there is no far – you understand? When you begin near there is no distance and therefore there is no time. And it is only then that which is most holy can be. Right, sir.	你必須從最切身的地方開始了解嗎？最切身的地方當你從最切身的地方開始就沒有…遠方了了解嗎？從切身開始就沒有了距離也因此沒有了時間只有到那個時候最神聖的才可能存在對嗎，先生？
1:24:03	I hope you will all have a pleasant time.	祝你們愉快
1:24:20	SUBTITLE TEXT COPYRIGHT 1980 KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION TRUST LTD	字幕版權所有 1980克里希那穆提基金會