Krishnamurti Subtitles
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BR82Q2 - 第二次问答会
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| 0:59 Krishnamurti: I wonder why you all listen to me. I am asking this seriously, not flippantly, why we listen to others? Not that we shouldn't, but why? Either we listen to somebody who knows his subject very well, and we want to be informed on it, or we turn to some specialist, professional, who will discuss his particular study. Or we listen to some music: Mozart, Beethoven, and so on, and we are delighted by it, stimulated by it, see the beauty of it, and enjoy it. And when we ask, why are you listening to the speaker, in which category do you put him in? 2:48 I think it would be necessary and right if we could probe into these questions cooperatively. That is, we all share together in the exploration of these questions, cooperate. Not that the speaker reads a question, he investigates it, but if we could do it together, it would really be extraordinarily good and important. Few of us know how to cooperate. We cooperate around an idea if we agree with that idea, or we cooperate around an ideal, to be certain that ideal is to be carried out, then we all get together if we agree with that ideal. 4:03 That is if it pleases us, that ideal. Or we cooperate around a person, some authority, as we do around a bishop or a priest, or a guru, or any of those people. But it all implies, does it not, that we cooperate about something, or with something, or for something? But here, we are not cooperating in that sense. We want the cooperation that is not personal, that has nothing to do with ideas, authority, and so on, but the feeling of cooperation. I wonder if I am making myself clear. | 0:59 克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：我希望你们 并没有像我一样紧张。 每一次当某人（指克氏自己）演讲时， 他都会经历所有这类情绪， 经历这种紧张不安、这种忧虑恐惧。 某人不是很清楚 自己该讲些什么…… ——至少我不是很清楚。 我认为我们应该察觉到 这个世界上正在发生的事情， 但不要因此而感到沮丧， 对此感到乐观或悲观， 而是要不偏不倚地、 冷静地去观察…… 实际发生的那些事情。 从科技上来看， 远东地区正在 以越来越快的速度崛起， 其发展速度可能已经 超过了西方国家。 而全球的 经济形势 则是非常的不稳定和不确定。 2:48 社会上存在着 大量的混乱局面…… 和不确定性。 而全世界的 各种宗教…… 也无法在我们的日常生活中 起到什么作用。 它们实际上已经完全失去了 它们的意义 ——尽管那些宗教团体、 那些宗教组织 仍然在维持着现状， 它们在谈论着那些 肤浅表面的东西， 而没有触及 生活根本性的真相。 所以人类未来 将会发生什么呢？ 对于我们所有人、 对于我们的子孙后代来说、 或者无论什么人来说， 他们将会发生什么事情呢？ 我们必须要非常小心地 来审视这一切， 而不要引入任何结论 ——无论是左派的、右派的、 还是中间派的，那些政治观点， 4:03 也不要以任何方式站队， 不要忠于 任何政治、宗教团体， 而是要去关心 人类所发生的事情。 人类正在为战争做准备。 全世界的 工业国家 正在出售军火武器。 因为它们的经济依赖于此。 杀人似乎已经成为了一件 时髦流行的事情、 成为了一种英雄之举。 |
| 5:02 Feeling that, let's all tackle this problem together. Because that is the problem of most of our lives. We have so many problems: physical, psychological, and problems invented by thought. And we live with these problems everlastingly till we die. We are never free of any problem. We are always carrying them with us, and we never try to find out what it means to live a life without a single problem. Psychologically first, not outwardly, which we generally do: let us solve the outward problems first, and then we will tackle the other. 6:09 But I don't think it ever works that way. We have to solve the psychological problems first, and then the other problems can be intelligently, cooperatively understood, acted upon. So please, we are cooperating together, not that you are cooperating with the speaker, or with what he says, but coming together to resolve some of these problems. | 5:02 杀人者受到称赞， 他们的名字 被安放在大教堂里， 很显然，以宗教、爱国主义 或国家为名义…… 去杀死 别的人 ——这已经变得无比重要。 人类被划分为不同的国家： 英国人、法国人、 美国人、俄罗斯人、 印度人、日本人 等等。 而各个国家之间 有着经济战争。 并不仅仅只有外在物理上的战争， 同样也有着经济上的战争， 我们还有着其他对于生命的 破坏性的看法态度。 对于任何一个有思考的人而言， 这些都是显而易见的， 这些都是事实。 6:09 而当我们观察到所有这些事情， 我们会问：那么人类对此 ——像你和我这样的人—— 我们能够在这个世界上做点什么呢？ 这变成了一个 相当严肃的问题。 我们中的一些人 加入了某个团体、某个社群， 或者去追随某个领袖， 穿上不同类型的长袍， 等等， 而这些行动并不能 真正地、从根本上 影响改变这个世界正在发生的 整个潮流趋势 |
| 6:54 1st question: Most of us are married, or involved in a close relationship which began for all the wrong reasons you have so correctly described. Can such a marriage or relationship ever be made into a really positive force? | 6:54 ——那种朝向毁灭、 朝向战争、 在其中人类存在变得毫无价值的 潮流趋势。 而我们会问： “面对这一切， 我该怎么办？ ” 我们必须要一起询问 这个问题。 |
| 7:24 K: You poor chaps. | 7:24 我们必须一起仔细思考它， 不是接受同意 演讲者所说的东西， 而是我们一起 |
| 7:32 Q: Most of us are married or involved in a close relationship which began for all the wrong reasons you have correctly described. Can such a marriage or relationship ever be made into a really positive force? | 7:32 ——你和演讲者一起， 去询问这个问题， 那就是 在这个疯狂的世界里，我们该做些什么？ 这个世界正在变得 越来越疯癫、 越来越暴力。 |
| 7:59 K: Now, how do we tackle this question? We went into the question the other day, into what is relationship? What does it mean to be related to another? You may be related very closely, intimately, physically, but are we ever related psychologically, inwardly? Not romantically, sentimentally, but the feeling of being related? The word 'relation' means to be in contact, to have a sense of wholeness with another, not as separate entities then coming together and feeling whole, but the very relationship brings about this quality, this feeling of not being separate. 9:35 This is really quite an important question because most of our lives are so terribly isolated, insulated, carefully structured so that we are not psychologically disturbed. And such relationship will inevitably bring about conflict, disturbance, and all the neurotic behaviour that one has. So first, let's be clear together, what we mean by relationship. Not only the meaning of that word, the verbal meaning, but the significance that lies behind the word, behind the two people. 10:43 What does it mean to be related? Are we ever related in the deep, profound sense of that word? Can there be a relationship of that kind: deep, undisturbed like the depth of the sea? Can there be a relationship if each one of us is pursuing his own particular path, particular desire, particular ambition, and so on? Can there be such relationship if these things exist? If we say, 'How can they not exist? Is it not necessary for each one of us to fulfil, each one of us to flower with each other?' 11:54 – whatever that may mean. That sense of separateness exists. If we each of us say, we are helping each other to flower, to grow, to fulfil, to be happy together, then one is still maintaining the isolated spirit. Now, why does the mind or the brain, the human entity, always cling to separatism? | 7:59 各种骇人听闻的事情正在发生着 ——而我们并不知道它们： 化学战争、 生物战争， 氮气炸弹和中子弹 ——科学家们正在准备着 所有这些东西。 如果一个国家发明出了某个 比其他国家更厉害的东西， 那么其他国家 便会争相竞争。 科学家们正在延续维持着 所有这一切， 而哲学家们 只会说一大堆废话。 所以现在，我们应该 ——作为生活在这个世界上的 人类， 我们有着自己的家庭、 自己的孩子， 我们的行动是什么？ 我们的责任是什么？ 只是转过身去 不管它了吗？ 退隐到某个修道院里去吗？ 或者躲到某些 意识形态的结论中去， 发明一些新的意识形态？ 9:35 所有这些东西都没有解决 我们人类的问题， 人类面临着这种 可怕的状况， 我们正生活在一个 危险的世界里。 所以，拜托了， 你们不能只是 听演讲者说， 然后期望发现 他对于所有这些问题的答案， 他会采取什么行动？ 他的责任是什么？ 这都是错误的问题 ——如果允许某人（指克氏自己）指出来的话。 问题应该是： 我们的责任是什么？ 而不只是 演讲者的责任是什么。 问题在于： 我们每个人的责任是什么？ 这个世界已经着火了， 它陷入于火海之中。 10:43 成千上万的人在受苦 ——以国家的名义、 以爱国精神的名义， 还有所有那些世界上正在发生着的 荒谬愚蠢之事。 所以我们应该…… 在这里的这几次演讲 和问答会中， 我们应该一起去 仔细思考一下这个问题。 我们在一起 并不是要忠于任何事物： 忠于某个团体、某个政治主张、 某个宗教或某个国家。 而是要 一起去发现 我们作为生活在这个 糟糕可怕世界里的人类， 我们的责任是什么， 11:54 对于所有这些正在发生着的恐怖之事， 我们自然的反应 是什么。 首先， 全世界 所有的人 ——不管是东方的、西方的、还是中东地区的—— 所有人都在经历着 无数的磨难、 |
| 12:38 Please, this is a very, very serious question. Why human beings throughout history have maintained this sense of isolation, insulation, separatism, division. You are a Catholic, I am a Protestant. You belong to that group, and he belongs to that group. I put on a purple robe, yellow robe, or a garland around my something or other, and we maintain this. And we talk about relationship, love, and all the rest of it. Now, why? Please, we are cooperating, investigating together. Why do we do this? 13:45 Is it either conscious, deliberate, or unconscious: tradition, our education? The whole religious structure maintains that you are separate, separate soul, etc. Or is it that thought in itself is separative? You understand? I think I am separate from you. I think my behaviour must be separate from you because otherwise, there is the fear that we will become automatic, zombies, imitating each other. Is thought the cause of this separatism in life? Please investigate together in this. 15:13 Thought has separated the world into nationalities. You are British, another is a German, I am French, you are Russian, and so on. This division is created by thought. And thought assumes that in this separatism, in this division, there is security. Belonging to a commune, belonging to the same group, believing in the same guru, believing in the same clothes that one wears according to the edicts of the guru, one feels secure, at least the illusion of being secure. | 12:38 无数的问题： 饥饿问题、人口过剩问题、 糟糕政府的问题， 各国政府们致力于 它们自己特定的意识形态。 那些统治我们的 政府与领袖， 他们疯狂追求权力、 地位和声望， 他们通过贩卖军火 而帮助了恐怖分子。 前几天， 某人（指克氏自己）从电视上听到： 这个国家（英国）所制造的80%的军火武器 被卖到了国外， 而20%的军火武器 则被他们保留下来用以自卫。 这样的事情 正在全世界发生着。 13:45 人类已经遭受了 无止尽的痛苦 ——成千上万年的苦难， 然而他们却未能找到 这一切问题的解答。 而我们正在变得 越来越依赖于 外在环境 的控制， 试图在外部的活动中 找到答案： 通过政府的活动、 通过专门的法律 等等 ——所有这些外在的、 隔靴搔痒的活动。 然而很显然， 答案并不在那之中。 答案既不存在于政治之中、 也不存在于分离独立的国籍之中、 它也不会存在于 各种宗教组织…… 和宗派主义之中。 在这些东西中是绝不会有答案的。 15:13 然而我们却总是在 寻求答案， 来解决那些 由人类根本性的紊乱失调 所引发的外在症状。 我们试图去处理解决 那些表面的症状， 而没有去非常非常深入地探究 为什么全世界的人 会有现在这样的行为： 冷酷无情、漠不关心， 完全只关心 他们自己。 请你们牢记这一点： 那就是我们正在一起思考， 你并不只是在那里 听演讲者说话， 而是要去关心一下 我们的责任是什么、 关心一下我们的头脑和心灵 对于这一切的反应活动应该是什么。 |
| 16:22 And so we are asking, is it the pleasure, the pleasurable desire – which is the movement of thought also – that separates us? That is, is thought ever complete, whole? Because thought is based on knowledge, which is vast, accumulated experience of man either in the scientific, technological world, or psychologically. We have accumulated a great deal of knowledge outwardly and inwardly. And thought is the outcome of that knowledge. 17:31 Thought as memory, knowledge, experience. Right? So knowledge can never be complete – we agree? – about anything. About God, about nirvana, about heaven, about science – anything. So knowledge must always go with the shadow of ignorance. Please see this fact together. So when thought enters into the field of relationship, it must create a division. Because thought itself is fragmented, thought itself is limited. | 16:22 首先，我认为我们应该去…… 审视一下人类的「意识」。 为什么这种「意识」 ——我们就是这种「意识」—— 为什么这种「意识」会变成现在这样子？ 我们每个人都会认为 自己的意识是属于自己的， 它是我们自己特定的遗传继承、 我们特定的发展进化， 它属于我们自己。 于是我们便被这种局限性 所制约了。 这就是我们每个人的想法，那就是： 这是我们自己的意识。 17:31 我们每个人都带着自己特有的、 分离独立的意识。 对吧？ 这是一个事实。 每一个人都觉得： 你的样子是你自己特别的、 遗传的结果 ——它是属于你的。 然而现在， 我们要来质疑这一点： 它是属于你的吗？ 它是你的意识吗？ 还是说， 你就是全人类的意识？ 换句话说， 全世界所有的人 ——无论他们生活在哪里、 生活在何种气候中、 生活在何种 政府与宗教下， 所有人都会经历 巨大的恐惧、焦虑、 悲伤、痛苦， 以及一些模模糊糊的快乐。 |
| 18:31 If this is clear to all of us – I am not explaining it, you are discovering it for yourself – then what place has knowledge in relationship? Please, this is a serious question, it isn't just a casual, argumentative proposition. This is an enquiry into what place has knowledge, experience, accumulated memories, in relationship? Please answer this yourself, don't look at me. If I say, 'I know my wife', or other form of intimate relationship, I have already put that person into the framework of my knowledge about her, or him. So my knowledge becomes the divisive process. 20:08 I have lived with my wife, husband, girl, or whatever it is, and I have accumulated information. I have remembered the painful statements she has made, or one has made. There is this whole building up of memory as an image which interferes in my relationship with another. Right? Please observe this in oneself. And she is doing exactly the same thing. So we are asking, what place has knowledge in relationship? Is knowledge love? I may know my wife, the way she looks, the way she behaves, certain habits, and so on. That is fairly obvious. But why should I say, I know her, or him? 21:52 When I say, 'I know', I have already limited my relationship. I don't know if you understand. I have already created a block, a barrier between myself and her. Does that mean in my relationship to her, I become irresponsible? You understand my question? If I say, I don't know you basically, am I irresponsible? Or I have become extraordinarily sensitive? If I may use that word, 'open' – that is a wrong word. I am vulnerable, I have no sense of division, no barrier. | 18:31 这是全人类 共同的命运。 是吧？ 每一个人的命运。 尽管有些人 可能身居高位、 住着豪宅， 而有些人一贫如洗、住在茅草屋里， 但每一个人都会经历体验这些东西。 所以，存在着这种「共有的意识」 ——而我们就是这种意识。 所以它并不是“你的意识”。 你感到痛苦， 你感到不确定、 巨大的焦虑、 孤独、抑郁， 寻找某种 超越这一切的事物， 把它称为“上帝”、 “局外者”等等。 每一个人…… ——请务必认识到这一点， 不是口头文字上 去进行一些联想， 或者从语言文字上理解它， 或者得出某种智性层面的结论， 20:08 而是：它是一个事实、一个真相： 即我们——我们每一个人—— 就是世界上其他的人。 拜托了， 我们必须真正地领会这一点， 因为由此我们便可以去发现 接下来该怎么做了。 但如果我们 还不清楚这一点 ——这里的“不清楚”不是指 没有从语言文字或智力上理解它， 而是我们没有在情感上、 在内心、 用我们最深处的存在、 用我们血液理解它—— 那就是：每一个人 ——不管他是生活在 极权主义国家， 还是生活在 所谓的“民主世界”里、 生活在资本主义世界或者其他什么世界里， 左派世界或右派世界， 不管他是印度人还是日本人， 不管他是黑人、白人，还是紫色皮肤的人， 也不管他属于什么种族和宗教—— 每一个人都会经历体验 这些东西， 就像我们每个人会经历体验它们一样： 巨大的痛苦、眼泪、欢笑、 崇拜某种 思想发明出来的东西。 21:52 这就是全人类所站立于的 共同基础。 你是不可能反驳这一点的。 无论是从逻辑上还是从智力上 ——如果你想要反驳的话， 因为它是一个事实。 尽管从外表来看、 从外在来看， 你也许受过更多的教育， 生活在一个富裕的社会里， 享受着更好的卫生条件、更好的饮食， 也许还拥有一个 稍微好一点的政府 ——但这一切都是 外围的活动。 而内心深处、从根本上来说， 我们每一个人 都是整个人类。 我们是否切实地领悟了这一点？ 还是说，我们的大脑 会拒绝接受这种观点， 拒绝去看清这一事实， 因为我们都是如此的局限。 |
| 23:08 So if I have that quality of mind, brain, or feeling, that in relationship, it is a flowering, it is a movement. It is not a static state, it is a living thing. You can't put it in a cage and say, that is it, don't move from there. Then we can begin to ask, what is marriage? Right? Or not marriage? One may live with another, sexually, companionship, holding hands, talking, etc., and go to a registrar, or go through a Catholic or Protestant ceremony and I am tied together. Only let God put it aside, which means absolutely nothing, just a form of tradition. 24:32 Or I may live with another without being married. With one, rather, in certain conditions, I have taken a vow of responsibility, in the other, I don't. And with one, I am legally married. Separation, divorce becomes rather difficult. With the other, it is fairly simple: we each say goodbye, and walk off in different directions. And that is what is happening more and more in the world. We are not condemning either. Please, we are just looking at this whole problem. With children, responsibility, and the feeling of this tremendous burden of children. 25:48 And there, legally, you are tied. In the other, you are not. You may have children, but there is always this open door. Now, is all relationship, in both these cases, a mere form of attraction, biological responses on both sides, the curiosity, the sense of wanting to be with another which may be the outcome of unconscious fear of loneliness, the tradition which has established this habit? Now, in both cases it can become a habit, and in both cases, there is the fear of losing, possessing, exploiting each other sexually, and all the rest of it follows. 27:38 Now, in both cases, what is important? Please, we are talking over together. I am not telling you what is or what is not. What is important, necessary, in both cases? Responsibility is essential. I am responsible for the people I live with. I am responsible, not only with my wife, but I am responsible for what is happening in the world. I am responsible, responsible to see that people are not killed. I am responsible. I am responsible to see that there is no violence. | 23:08 我们认为：我的生命就是我的。 我的意识、我的思想、 我的行为活动 ——它们都只是我一个人的责任。 你的大脑拒绝去面对 这个重大的真相： 即作为人类，我们就是 世界上其他的人。 我们可以无止尽地讨论这一点， 去赞成或反对。 我们可以无止尽地去分析…… 我们和所有其他人是否是 彼此分离独立的 ——从意识层面来说、 从我们自身的意识来说。 你也许很高，你也许很矮， 你也许皮肤苍白， 你也许是白皮肤 或者 半白的皮肤， 或者是棕色皮肤、黑色皮肤等等。 但这些全都是外围的、 外在的活动， 而内心深处、从内在状态来说， 我们和这个世界上其他的人是一样的。 24:32 所以你就是「全人类」， 你就是其他所有人。 对吧？ 拜托了， 在这件事上， 你必须要勤奋付出才行。 去把它弄明白， 这样的话，当你完全地、无可辩驳地 清楚了这一点以后， 那我们就可以接着去探询 “我们人类可以做点什么？ ”了 然而当我们问了这个问题 ——即“我们可以做点什么”时， 我们所想的仍然是： 我可以做些什么。 你们听懂了吗？ 我们并没有 作为「人类整体」去思考。 我们是作为孤立的存在体 在思考， 从而问出了这个问题： 我可以做点什么？ 25:48 但这是一个错误的问题， 因为我们仍然是在 关心我们自己 ——把自己当作是一个 分离的、孤立的人。 毫无疑问，我们是彼此分离独立的。 因为你和我并不相同。 你很高，而我很矮， 我是棕色皮肤的，而你是白色皮肤的 或者黑色皮肤的、或者无论什么颜色的皮肤。 然而当你不再关注 所有这些肤浅表面的东西， 当你深入探究 你自己 ——探究自己 就是探究我们的意识—— 那么你便会开始发现 你和 隔壁邻居、 或者和某个与你相隔千里的人是一样的， 你们都会经历各种巨大的痛苦、 抑郁、焦虑、 孤独和悲伤。 但我们中极少有人 会询问这些问题。 我们全都是受过 如此高等的教育的个体， 我们是彼此分离 且独立的 ——就像国家的划分一样。 所以当我们询问 “该怎么做？ ”的时候， 我们是作为一个英格兰人、 英国人或法国人在提问， 27:38 我们归属于某个特定的政府， 或者属于某些团体， 等等此类东西。 然而我们从未能够深刻地 领悟这个真相： 那就是：从根本上来说， 我们是「同一之物」。 所以我们可以基于这一点继续讨论下去吗？ 我们可以继续讲下去…… ——非常轻松容易地去谈论别的东西， 然而如果这个基础不够切实的话…… 我们可以稳固地站立在这个基础之上， 那时将没有什么东西可以动摇我们， 然后我们就可以发现 我们的责任是什么 ——是我们作为「人类整体」的责任， 而不是 作为「孤立个人」的责任。 |
| 28:56 So, is my responsibility just for the one? And for my family, for my children which has been the tradition? And the family in the West is disappearing more and more, whereas in the East, the family is still the centre, tremendously important. For the family, they will do anything. Even though they are distant cousins, they will keep together, help each other, pull wires for each other. But here, it is gradually disappearing altogether. | 28:56 随着讨论的进行， 我们将越来越深入这一点。 我们正在一起思考 这些问题。 请理解，演讲者必须 坚持强调这一点。 演讲者是个无名小卒， 他并没有什么权威性。 从作为一个「人」的角度来说， 他其实并不存在。 他仅仅只是在观察着， 我们双方在一起观察着 正在发生的事情。 所以 请不要在意…… 或者重视 这个人物。 |
| 29:48 So, seeing all this, the responsibility, as it exists in marriage, the responsibility, as it exists in the other, living with somebody. We are irresponsible because if we have children our responsibility is to see that they are properly educated, not sent off to some kind of – you know, get rid of them as quickly as possible. You see, when you go into this problem, it becomes extraordinarily complex, and extraordinarily vital, because if I have children, if I love them as I do, and I feel responsible, I am responsible for the whole of their life, and they must be responsible for me for the whole of their life. I must see that they are properly educated, not butchered in a war. | 29:48 就像面对一个电话机的话筒 ——你并不会去尊重那个话筒， 你不会给话筒戴上花环， 去崇拜它。 你只会聆听话筒里 说了一些什么。 那个话筒也许是黑色的、 也许是白色的， 而现在，我相信它 有了很多颜色。 然而当你很重视它， 这件事就变得 无比荒诞和幼稚了。 好了，这样我们就可以继续讲下去了。 从科技上来说 ——请好好理解这个问题， 我要来探讨它了—— 从科学技术方面来讲， 人类的头脑致力于 让科技变得 越来越完善完美： 那些电脑、军火武器。 所以科技正在越来越多地 涌向东方、 涌向远东地区。 |
| 31:07 So all that is implied in this question. And this question, in investigating profoundly, unless one has this quality of love, everything is just beside the point. If I have no love for my wife, that is, I am not pursuing my own self-centred activity, and she is not too, but if I am and she is not, then the trouble begins. That is, if I am attempting not to be self-centred, not to be isolated, to have this feeling of deep affection in which there is no attachment, no possession, not the pursuit of pleasure, and my wife feels the opposite, quite different, then we have a totally different problem. 32:20 You understand? Then the problem is, what shall I do? Just leave her, run away, divorce? I may have to. She insists something – you follow this? It is not a question to be answered by a few statements, but it requires a great deal of inward enquiry into this, on both parts. And in that enquiry, in exploring if there is no love, then there is no intelligent action. Where there is love, it has its own intelligence, its own responsibility. Right? Can we go on to the next question? Not we are bored with that. 33:38 Relationship is one of the most extraordinary things in life. To be totally, completely related with another without any sense of 'me' interfering with it, without any sense of the self, with all its egotistic pursuits – it doesn't enter into that relationship. 2nd question: In our continuous search for security a valid need for a neurotic – what? Sorry, I made a mistake. | 31:07 换句话说， 人类非常重视科技。 是这样吧？ 更强大的战争工具， 更先进的通讯方式， 更厉害的 杀死别人的手段， 等等——我就不赘述了， 我们或许都知道这些。 所以，人类已经在这方面倾注了时间、 精力、金钱 与才能 ——去改进完善科学技术。 请看到这一点， 看到这个世界上正在发生的事情。 所以人类的意识 正在朝着 更加先进的科技前进。 是吧？ 人类将自己的 思考与精力…… 投入到了这个方向上。 32:20 所以我们的大脑正在变得 越来越倾向于“技术思维” ——发明各种小工具。 请注意，我们并没有在说 人类就不应该拥有科技， 我们说的是： 这种趋势是不可避免的， 这就是正在发生的事情。 然而在其他方向上， 人类并没有 投入多少时间、精力与思考， 他没有说： 我要自己去发现“我是什么”， 为什么我会做出这样的行为举动， 有什么超越这一切的事物吗？ 我们并没有去 思考过这些东西。 你们理解这两个方向了吗？ 换句话说，人类已经付出了 无数的时间和精力…… 去征服控制 环境 ——也就是去征服 天地万物和自然环境。 然而我们并没有付出 同等的精力、时间或心力 33:38 去探询我们自己的内在： 我们是怎样的？ 为什么我们会作出这样的行为？ 是否存在任何“终极之物”？ 是否有着某种 没有起因的「存在」？ 也就是去探询某种 远远更为伟大的事物 ——它要比所有的科学技术、 所有的人类思想更加伟大。 你看到这个景象了吗？ 科学技术正在侵入 我们人类的整体意识， 而我们却并没有在「另一个方面」 付出足够多的精力与时间。 即使有极少数人这么做了， 科学技术又会把他们“淹没”。 请看到 所有这些事实。 |
| 34:42 Is our continuous search for security a valid need or a neurotic one? Is there a security that is not the opposite of insecurity? | 34:42 我希望你们已经清楚了这一切， 确保我们都已经理解了 刚才所说的东西。 我们或许会付出精力、付出时间 |
| 35:02 Is our continuous search for security a valid need or a neurotic one? Is there a security that is not the opposite of insecurity? | 35:02 去探询 物质方面的事物、 以及那个远远超越 所有物质层面解释的事物 ——如果存在某种永恒的、 超越所有痛苦的事物的话。 |
| 35:26 K: Can we go on with this question? Shall we? Sir, what is an opposite? The contrary. There is man and woman, light and dark, sunrise and sunset, darkness. There is division between nature and man, actual nature and man. There is division between the man who is tall, and the other who is short, light skin, dark skin, brown skin, yellow skin and purple skin if they are painting themselves. So there is division, obvious division. A marquee and a house, a dome and a flat surface. Now, is there an opposite, psychologically, at all? Please enquire into this together. 36:58 Is there, inwardly, an opposite? We have, inwardly, the opposite. I am good or bad, and I must be good. I am greedy, and I must not be greedy. I am violent, and I hope one day not to be violent. So inwardly, psychologically, they are opposites. Where there are opposites, inwardly, there must be conflict. Right? That is so. I am violent, but thought has created a state of non-violence which is the opposite of what I am actually – what is. And I am struggling through time, experience, to become non-violent. Can we go on? | 35:26 我们中极少有人为此付出时间。 而当我们这么做时 ——也许在这里或那里 有那么一两人会这样做—— 那么“另一个世界（科技）” 就会席卷淹没我们。 所以，如果我们所有 在这里听演讲的人 能够付出时间、精力去探询 某种超越这一切的事物， 那我们就会 为这种意识增添…… 某种完全不属于 技术世界的事物了。 我有没有把这一点讲清楚了？ 假如你付出了 时间、精力、 和才能 去真正地探询了， 不接受任何信仰 和所有这类幼稚的玩意儿， 而是深入地去探询。 探询和分析 是有所不同的。 探询是去观察， 然后“追踪”那种观察。 36:58 所以， 当你这么做时， 你也许就可以为 人类的整体意识 添加某种「品质」了。 然而这种品质 很快就被 “另一个世界（科技）” 所摧毁、淹没或削弱了。 但如果有上千人 关心这件事 ——不是建立一个团体 和所有这类愚蠢的玩意儿， 而是实实在在 为它奉献你的一生， 那么你就会为这种意识、 为全人类的意识 增添某种「品质」 ——这种品质是超越 所有语言文字、 所有思想、 所有结论的， 它是某种「永恒之物」。 你们理解了吗？ 所以，如果这点清楚了， 那么我们就可以问了： 我们该怎么做呢？ |
| 38:21 So, 'what is' and 'what should be'. So there is conflict. Now, 'what should be' is non-fact. It is not so. 'What is' is my violence. That is all. Not 'I should become non-violent'. I wonder if we see this clearly. 'What is' is far more important than 'what should be', because 'what should be' will never take place. Because 'I will be one day', and in the meantime I am sowing the seeds of violence all the time. So psychologically, the opposite does not exist actually. It is an illusion that there is an opposite. Now, if our conditioning is to create the opposite, if we are free from that conditioning then we can look at 'what is'. So let's look at 'what is'. | 38:21 而不是在这之前去问——那样的话， 它就仅仅变成了一种肤浅表面的活动。 如果我们每一个人 都可以告诉自己这一点的话…… 因为这是一个显而易见的事实。 这个世界正在变得 越来越注重科技。 我不知道你们是否 察觉到了这一切。 日本正在变成 「专有技术」的中心、 变成科技的中心。 日本政府正在投入 数十亿资金， 将其投资于电脑产业。 日本人几乎已经征服了西方世界 ——用他们的汽车、 他们的手表、 他们的照相机、 他们的留声机，用所有这一切 征服了西方世界。 而其他远东国家 正在追赶日本人， 也在培育发展科技。 而我的话并不是出于反对， 也不是对此产生的反应， 但我想说： 人不能仅仅依靠科技、 和科技产品而活。 我们必须要去探究 某种「不可度量的事物」。 |
| 40:02 What actually is, we are insecure. I am seeking security, but the actual fact is I am insecure, uncertain, confused, waffling about, moving from one thing to another, one family to another, one woman to another, one man to another, one guru to another – you follow? I am seeking security, and I think there is security in nation, in a community, in a family. Or if I am fairly intelligent, I say, no, there is no security, but there is security in God, in obeying, in following, in accepting. But the fact remains all the time that there is this feeling of deep insecurity. 41:18 So can we put away the search for security, psychologically, and enquire into what is insecurity? Then I can deal with it. But if I am all the time seeking security and I see very well I can't find it in churches, in priests, in books, in people, in gurus, in ideas. There is none of it, I see that. So I come back, and say now, I am insecure. Why? What is insecurity? I am talking first of all, psychologically, not first secure outwardly then secure inwardly. But first, psychologically, I am enquiring into insecurity. Please see the importance of this. The communists, socialists, and various other groups have tried to bring about security for man outwardly, and they have all failed. 42:40 The communists started out – you know, I won't go into all that. All kinds of propositions, ideals, and then ended up in totalitarianism. So unless we tackle, grasp the inward structure of human behaviour, human mind, psychologically, merely the outward coating will have no effect. One doesn't realise this. So first, we are seeking together, trying to find out why we live, psychologically, in insecurity? Why we feel insecure, not the other. Why? | 40:02 所以如果我们中所有那些 聆听了这一切的人 能够付出时间与精力 去探询它， 那么这种「探询」本身 就将解答这个问题， 也就是：我该怎么做？ 对吧？ 所以我们将要 一起去发现 如何询问、 如何观察。 首先， 「观察」并不是去「分析」。 当你观察一朵花的时候， 你会看到那朵花的美、 那朵花的品质、色彩、 芳香、 那朵花不可触碰的「美」。 而在看了那朵花以后，你也可以去分析它。 你可以审视这朵花， 把它撕成碎片——如果你有这个想法的话， 但我希望你没有—— 你可以撕裂这朵花，然后观察它。 41:18 「分析」是一个僵死的过程， 但「观察」并不是。 「分析」暗示了有一个分析者 和一个被分析物。 分析者认为 他和他所分析的事物是分离的。 这就是心理学的全部内容： 即那个“观察者”、“分析者” 和被分析者是分离的。 是吧？ 然而这并非事实。 因为那个“分析者” 也是「过去」的产物： 他过去的记忆、 经验和知识， 而对于那个他所观察的事物， 他认为自己是与之分离的。 是吧？ 听好了，我会把它说的更简单一点。 我妒忌别人， 这种妒忌中包含了嫉妒、 42:40 比较、 模仿、遵从。 而虽然我妒忌别人， 但当我实现了我的愿望以后， 它也给我带来了快乐满足。 然而你却走过来说： 瞧，妒忌是一个丑陋的东西， 它真的非常具有破坏性。 所以在我心中， 马上就有一个分析者说： 妒忌和「我」 是有所不同的。 我要去控制它， 我要去改造它， 我要去塑造它， 我要去抛弃它或者保持它。 然而当你更加密切地 去检视它， （你会发现）分析者就是被分析物， 妒忌就是我的一部分， 我和妒忌并没有什么不同。 对吧？ 「愤怒」与「我」并没有什么不同 ——我就是那个「愤怒」。 然而我的局限就在于：我一直认为 |
| 43:51 Now when I am insecure, and I know I am insecure, is there a subtle urge, a subtle intimation that there is security? You understand? I am insecure. I am married, etc., but I feel insecure. But there may be also, deep down in me, the feeling that there is somewhere security. And I am pursuing that unconsciously though I am trying to investigate insecurity. You follow? I wonder if you see this. I must be very clear that I am not, surreptitiously, under the table, seeking security though I profess I am insecure. So we must be clear right through our being that one lives in insecurity, why? 45:15 Then we can ask the real question, but if you are half-and-half, you know, half-and-half of anything, you become mediocre. That is a good subject, mediocrity, but we won't go into that. The word mediocrity means going up the mountain halfway. A person who goes halfway is mediocre, who doesn't go right to the top of it. Not in profession, not in some particular subject, but psychologically, he doesn't go right to the top of it. Such a person is mediocre – I am not saying you are. | 43:51 我的愤怒和「我」 不是同一个东西， 因为这样的话，我才能够去控制它， 我才能够去塑造它， 那时我才能够把它合理化、 给出一大堆解释 ——关于为什么我会发怒。 然而愤怒、妒忌等等 ——它就是「我」的一部分， 我就是「愤怒」。 所以当分析者 和被分析物之间 有了割裂区分， 那时就会有冲突、 就会有斗争、 就会有痛苦， 就会有 各种形式的替代品， 或者你会去超越它， 等等。 然而当分析者 就是被分析物， 那么这整个问题就会发生 根本性的改变， 因为那时就没有「冲突」了。 那时你就是在真正地观察。 我们是否彼此 更清楚对方意思了？ 请不要一脸严肃的样子。 我们是否清楚了这一点？ 45:15 因为我们的生活中 有着冲突， 我们所有的关系 都会带来冲突。 从小开始， 我们便生活在冲突之中 ——我们要变得更加怎么怎么样，变得更好。 而这种「量度」 它就是“实际模样”和“应该怎样” 之间的间隔 ——这种「间隔」就是量度、 就是时间， 它给我们内心带来了 极大的冲突。 我是这样的，但我将会变成那样的 ——要么是在商业领域中、 |
| 46:12 So what is insecurity? Can there be security at all? Don't be depressed, don't feel anxiety, we are investigating. Can there be, though I am seeking, wanting, searching, longing for security, realising I am insecure, I am also asking, is there really security at all? My search for security may be wrong. What I am seeking is not security, but a quality of mind, brain, that will meet everything rightly. Right? I wonder if you understand this. I feel insecure, and I see life is insecure, there is death always, there is always an accident, there is always something happening, shaking my foundations. 47:50 I realise that, and I say to myself, Is there security at all? Wait, don't deny it. I am questioning it, going into it, because security is necessary. The brain can only function effectively, vitally, fully, with all its extraordinary capacity, when it is secure, like a child, baby, must be secure. So the brain must feel that it is completely secure. Not be shaken, it must be immovable in its security, then the brain is flowering. You understand? Are we following each other? | 46:12 要么是在艺术领域， 或者是在我们的日常生活中， 而我们接受认可了这种冲突。 我们说它是正常的、健康的， 它带来了进步， 等等所有这类废话。 然而，如果你要去探询 大脑或头脑 是否能够 摆脱掉冲突， 那么你就必须 探究一下这个问题， 即：那个观察者、 那个分析者， 他和那个被分析物是否是 完全不同的。 还是说：那个分析者就是被分析物， 所以冲突 便会止息了。 由此你便可以去 观察一下…… 当没有了冲突以后，会发生些什么。 因为如果我心怀妒忌， 那我就是妒忌的。 我不会说，“我不应该妒忌” 或者“我很妒忌”， 我会去观察 那种妒忌的运动， 没有任何压力、 不带任何“未来”地去观察 那个 我正在看的东西。 47:50 而这需要 大量的注意力， 大量的精力，由此你才能看得 非常清晰。 那时， 人类全部的制约 ——人类已经接受了冲突， 将其视为一种生活方式—— 那时制约就会完全消失了。 这个世界上的人类 人类已经在这个世界上 生活了数百万年了 ——可不是只有4500年， 也不是原教旨主义者所认为的那样 ——那是相当荒谬的想法， 人类已经生活了 无数年了， 无数个世纪， 人类已经接受了冲突、 接受了仇恨、 |
| 48:56 So let's find out if there is security at all. And if there is no security, the brain cannot possibly function properly. So we are asking, what is security and insecurity? Are you getting tired? We are going to find out first, what is insecurity? Why we live perpetually in insecurity? Now, in that very enquiry, why we live in this state: confusion, etc., the very awareness of it is the beginning of intelligence. Are you following this? Now let's begin again. | 48:56 接受了 互相伤害、 互相残杀。 而当我们意识到我们的意识 并不属于自己， 我的思考并不是“我的”。 「思考」是全人类 所共有的东西 ——不管是穷人也好、 未受过教育的人也好、 完全无知和迷信的人也好 ——每个人都会思考。 或者那些伟大的科学家 ——他们也会思考。 思考——它并不是你的思考 或我的思考——它只是「思考」 而那时，我们就会开始发现 这种观察会变得 远远更为敏锐、更为直接， 它会具有一种「果断」的品质， 而不是去分析， 把每一样事物拆成碎片， 从而去搞清楚它， |
| 50:18 I am insecure. I have searched for security, which is, run away from my insecurity. Which is, I have created the opposite and I am in conflict with it: know insecurity, and wanting security. So there is a struggle going on. So I hear how stupid that is. The very recognition of this is the beginning of intelligence. Are we together in this? | 50:18 或者研究为什么我们会这样子行动， 然后追溯到你的外婆奶奶， 或者你的母亲、父亲。 这同样也是相当…… ——如果允许我说出来的话， 我希望这里 没有什么心理学家—— 这是相当不成熟的做法。 请注意，我们曾经和很多心理学家 讨论过这事儿。 所以，如果在场 也有心理学家的话， 请你们不要觉得受到了伤害。 请你们只是去看、去听、 去观察我们正在说的东西。 |
| 50:58 Questioner: Not completely. | 50:58 我们也可能完全错了， 所以恳请你们一一纠正， 但你们要去探询它、观察它。 |
| 51:02 K: Not completely. Sir, look. We have divided the world into nationalities, and these nationalities are one of the major causes of war. One of the causes, the economic and so on. But one of the causes is this feeling that we are seperate from this person. You follow? Nationalities. Now, to recognise that, and to be free of it is to be intelligent. | 51:02 当有了「观察」， 就不会有「分析」了。 只是去观察， 就像你观察 那座美丽的高山一样。 你是无法去改变它的， 你无法改变它的壮丽、它的雄伟、 它那惊人的「美」。 只是去观察就行。 在观察之中就有着「美」。 |
| 51:41 No? Or would you want to be unintelligent? No, this is important, please. To recognise, to see that which is false, and to abandon that is intelligence. Right? | 51:41 所以，我们将会带着这种 「观察」的品质…… 去看一切事物。 不是我认为“观察”是怎么样的， 而是我们一起去观察。 你们理解了吗？ 我们是否都稍微有点 理解它了？ 去观察，比如说 去观察正在全世界 蔓延扩散的「仇恨」。 |
| 52:16 I see, after investigating, which we have done, there is no security in belief because belief changes all the time. It can be argued down, it can be broken down. Faith, belief, ideals: bring doubt to it, it begins to disappear. So there is no security in that. Therefore, my brain has seen that which is illusory, which it has considered before as giving me security, it has abandoned it. So it has become alive, intelligent. 53:13 And it says, is there security at all? There is when there is intelligence. I don't know if you follow this? Intelligence is the most positive force of security. Right? Is this clear? To abandon, psychologically, everything that is false. To perceive it, to see it very clearly is intelligence. Where there is intelligence, you don't even ask whether you are secure or insecure. | 52:16 一个人会想要去 伤害另一个人， 通过手势、言语、眼神 去伤害对方， 通过一些你所写的东西或说的东西 去伤害别人：因为仇恨。 仇恨正在全世界 蔓延传播。 在东方世界，有的穷人 几乎没有什么东西吃， 当你穿着干净的衣服， 开车经过他们时， 他们就会心生仇恨。 你们能理解这一切吗？ 看看这个国家 （英国） 和世界上其他地方 最近正在进行着的战争吧。 人们正在培育仇恨 53:13 ——以上帝的名义、 以国家的名义， 以爱国主义 和所有这类幼稚玩意儿的名义。 所以，在观察到了这种「仇恨」以后。 我们还会仇恨任何人吗？ 这可真是个奇怪的问题， 但我们将要来 探究所有这一切。 我们会仇恨别人吗？ 因为如果你因为各种原因 而仇恨某人， 这个人也许 曾经在心理上伤害过你。 「愤怒」就是仇恨的一部分。 当你观察了这种仇恨 ——不是去分析它， 为什么人类会孜孜不倦地 培育这种仇恨 ——通过战争来培育它。 |
| 54:14 So can we then, together, see the nature of security and insecurity, and in that very examination, observation, probing, discover for ourselves – not because anybody says – discover for ourselves that there is supreme security where there is intelligence. Not the cunning thought of intelligence. | 54:14 我们能否在内心…… 我们能否真诚地、 没有任何虚伪感、 诚实地说 我已经观察过了 我对别人的仇恨， 而正是在这种「观察」中 ——它就像是一团 “关注之火”， 抹除掉了那种仇恨。 |
| 54:52 Right? Can we go to the next question? | 54:52 我们大多数人 从小开始就受到了伤害， 被父母伤害，被老师伤害， |
| 55:03 3rd question: Would you please clarify what you mean by brain, mind and consciousness? | 55:03 因为互相比较 而受到伤害： 因为别人的分数更高， |
| 55:12 Would you please clarify what you mean by brain, mind and consciousness? | 55:12 所有那些 现代教育的事情。 |
| 55:17 K: I am not going to clarify, we will talk over together. First of all, we are not professionals, thank God. We are enquiring. Not that professionals don't enquire, I don't mean that. We are ordinary laymen. We are enquiring into this very, very complex problem which is consciousness. What is the quality? Not the structure, the nature, the cells and all that, but the brain and the mind. Please don't look at me, look at yourselves. | 55:17 你正在受到伤害， 而要去观察这种创伤、 或者很多不同创伤 ——并没有很多不同的创伤， 只存在着一种创伤，那就是我受伤了， 也就是那个「伤害」。 你也许会被这个人 或那个人所伤害， 你也许会因为这个原因或那个原因 而受到伤害，但是那个「伤害」是一样的。 你能够去看一下那个伤害吗？ 你可以去观察一下它吗？ 不要试图去战胜它、 超越它，等等这类事情。 因为当你观察 那个「伤害」， 你就会看到那个伤害 所带来的全部后果。 它是一种 会延续下去的创伤， 尽管它也许是潜藏着的， 但它会一直延续下去， 带来各种各样的后果。 比如孤立、 恐惧， |
| 56:27 First of all, consciousness, to be conscious, which is to be aware, which is to be attentive, not negligent, but diligently enquire into the nature of our consciousness. There has been the division as the unconscious and the conscious. The unconscious is all the past, all the inheritance, all the memories of thousands of years of man. Unconsciously, you may have the memories of being conditioned in Protestantism, Hindu, all the rest of it. Two thousand years of Christianity and propaganda has sown deeply the fear of heaven and hell, the saviour – it is there, deeply. 58:12 And if you go to the Islamic world, it is there also. And the Hindu world, and so on. So the unconscious is the movement of the past. We won't go into too many details because it is a very complex question we are going into. The past is a thousand memories, thousand years of pain, struggle, and all the travail of man. The unconscious is the idea that you are British, French, and so on. And the conscious, as far as one observes, – one may be wrong, one must always be doubting – the conscious is all the recent covering: education, technology – the covering. 59:29 That is, the conscious mind has often the intimations of the unconscious. Right? You are following all this? And the conscious mind is always – if one is at all aware – is being guided by the unconscious. Following? So there is actually, if one is at all alive, aware, there is no unconscious and the conscious. It is one unitary movement if one is alive, fully aware. And one is fully aware when there is a crisis. When there is some deep, disturbing challenge, everything, your whole consciousness comes into action. 1:00:56 And our consciousness is everything that thought has put there: our belief, our tradition, our faith, our fears of heaven and hell, the whole movement of our life is our consciousness. That consciousness is part of our brain, of course. If I have no brains, I have no consciousness. So the brain is part, and the necessary movement of consciousness acting through or in the brain. Now, the brain – I am not a professional, please, I have discussed this point with professionals, but they won't accept what what we are saying, but that doesn't matter. I may be false, I may be wrong – 1:02:13 we are saying, which is, the brain is now conditioned. Technologically – look how much energy has gone into technology. Our brain is limited, conditioned through vast experience, knowledge – it is conditioned. But to discover the quality of the brain which is not conditioned and therefore infinite capacity. Look at what the technological people are doing. They are not conditioned. They are enquiring, pushing, driving to find out, and therefore, they have got extraordinary capacity. 1:03:14 The atom bomb, the things that the technicians, the scientists are creating some of you don't even know about it – the horrors they are doing. | 56:27 于是我们会慢慢地建立起抵抗的屏障， 从而造成更深的孤立 所以当你非常密切地 去观察这种伤害， 也就是去观察 去将你全部的注意力 都放在那种观察上， 那么它就会像一团火焰燃尽自己， 从而清除掉那个创伤。 所以，我们要更深入地 去探询这种「观察」， 也就是去观察 我们彼此之间的关系。 去观察我们的关系 ——不管是亲密的、还是不亲密的关系。 我们的关系 实际上是什么呢？ 它是不是一种依赖？ 它是不是我需要某人…… 来满足我的欲望？ 来逃避我的孤独？ 在生理上、性欲上 满足我的需求？ 58:12 请注意，这是你们在问， 而不是我在问。 我们正在一起探询这件事。 请不要说“我正在探询它”， 然后却只是听我讲。 你正在探询 你的关系。 你可能不想要去探询它 ——但这是另一码事了。 你可以捂住你的耳朵， 或者离开这个大帐篷， 但既然你都已经在这里了， 那你就必须好好听一下——不管你愿不愿意。 所以，你的关系是什么呢？ 只是去观察一下 那种关系的特征。 它是不是「执著依恋」？ 它是不是在逃避孤独？ 有一种依赖感？ 因此，你的关系是不是 59:29 ——请稍微认真听一下它， 如果你有兴趣的话—— 你的关系是不是有着一个「起因」？ 它是不是有一个动机？ 而如果存在一个「起因」， 那这个起因就意味着「压力」， 意味着一个「动机」—— 「动机」就是「意图的活动」 ——不管是有意识还是无意识的。 而那个拥有「起因」的事物 必定不可避免地会结束。 你们能理解吗？ 如果我是出于某个原因而爱上你的 ——想想这件事的可怕之处吧。 如果我是出于某个原因而爱你们， 因为坐在那里的你们 可是一大群听众， 这让我感到无比兴奋愉悦 ——而这就是我（爱你们）的原因、我的动机。 那么这件事的结果 就会变得很丑陋了。 所以，我依赖于你， 而当有了依赖， 就会有恐惧。 1:00:56 所以，我发现…… 当有了一个「起因」， 那就必定会有「结束」。 如果我在与妻子的关系、 与丈夫的关系、 与孩子的关系中有了「起因动机」——有了「原因」 那么这种关系就肯定会 制造出冲突——这是不可避免的。 而我总是在 逃避那种冲突： 通过“上帝”逃避、 通过足球逃避、 通过心理学家来逃避， 等等，等等， 要么就是离婚——你懂的， 这整个逃避的过程。 所以当你审视一下 你的关系， 它只不过就是 ——就目前我们的关系来看， 除了极少数的例外—— 你的关系仅仅只是一种 彼此间的自我剥削。 1:02:13 在这之中有 着巨大的丑陋、残忍、 暴力和争吵， 以及你们大多数人所熟知的 所有那些爱恨纠葛。 所以，我们是否能够去观察这一事实？ 我们已经简要地分析了它， 我们也可以 更加深入地去研究它， 然而我们能够去 观察这个 关于依赖和执著的奇特事实吗？ 那么，某人（指克氏自己）就要问了： 「执著」是爱吗？ 爱是「占有」吗？ “我的”妻子、“我的”女朋友、 “我的”丈夫：这些执著依恋。 1:03:14 这是「爱」吗？ 如果这是「爱」的话， 那它就是有一个「起因」的。 对吧？ |
| 1:03:29 So the brain has infinite capacity, but it is conditioned now as British, as French, as all the rest: I believe, I don't believe, I believe in God. He is my guru. That guru is better than this guru. All that nonsense is going on. So as it is conditioned, its capacity is limited. And only when that conditioning is totally free, that means no faith, no fear – you follow? No attachment of any kind to anything, to past memories, past experiences. And they are that way. When they are technologically involved, they are tremendously alive. 1:04:35 I have talked to them. They have no time, they brush you off. So is it possible for the brain to be unconditioned? Which means is it possible for the brain to be free of the known? That is, I have to know where I have to go home, which road to take, what language I speak. I have to know, there is knowledge. But to be free, psychologically, which is the conditioning which the brain has been conditioned, conditioned by knowledge – to be free of that. Then it has got extraordinary capacity. | 1:03:29 我之所以依赖你， 是因为你满足了我， 你让我感到满意。 因此， 当有了一个「起因」以后， 我们的关系就必定 不可避免地会以「冲突」而告终。 所以「爱」会有一个原因吗？ 你们理解我的问题吗？ 请询问一下这些问题。 所以我们必须要严密仔细地去观察 「关系」和「爱」 的本质。 如今「爱」已被践踏得 面目全非了， 你们都知道如今「爱」已经变成了什么样子： 1:04:35 性爱、快感， 只是玩玩而已。 当「爱」有了一个原因， 那么「爱」就已经消逝了。 所以人类是否能够…… ——请问一下这个问题—— 人类是否能够 没有「原因」地生活？ 不是政治原因， 或者某种其他原因， 我不是在说这类原因。 而是去过自己的生活、那种日常生活 而没有起因动机。 这究竟可不可能呢？ 还是说，我们是如此的局限， 因为我们 数千年以来 |
| 1:05:37 Then, we are saying, what is the mind? We talked of consciousness, the brain and the mind. When the brain is completely free of that psychological knowledge, then the brain is the mind, because mind is infinite. So to understand all this, you have to study yourself, not from books, not from other people. You have to look at your own life, give time, energy, patience, probing. We haven't time because we are chattering all the time. So, mind, brain and consciousness are really one when there is total freedom of all conditioning. | 1:05:37 一直是基于「原因和结果」而活的， 所以我们很难 不带「因果关系」地去观察生活。 你们理解这个问题中的 暗示意义吗？ 如果演讲者来到这里 并且演讲， 是因为他有着某个起因动机： 为了弘扬宣传（他的理念）， 为了名声， 去变得“臭名昭著”， 拥有更大的受众群体， 从而让演讲者 感到满足， 等等这类东西， 那么，演讲者就是有一个起因动机的。 然后会发生什么呢？ 那时他的处境就很糟糕了。 因为他会依赖于你们。 他会想要你们的奉承、 你们的批评，你们懂的。 |
| 1:06:55 Shall we go on? | 1:06:55 他应该不会想要你们的批评， 他只想要你们的奉承。 他会有所依赖、有所执著。 |
| 1:07:10 4th question: When we see someone being aggressive verbally or physically towards another, we feel a need to intervene. Can such intervention be just, or is it a mere subtle reaction of the self? | 1:07:10 因此他永远会处于一种 焦虑的状态中， 由此他便成了一个恶魔。 他正在剥削着你们。 这样的话，我们也许会问： 那为什么他要演讲？他演讲的原因是什么？ |
| 1:07:33 When one sees someone being aggressive verbally or physically towards another, we feel a need for intervention, to intervene. Can such intervention be just, or is it a mere subtle reaction of the self? | 1:07:33 其实并没有什么原因。 你要去发现“没有任何起因动机的生活” 意味着什么。 因为「爱」是没有起因动机的。 |
| 1:07:58 K: Can't one find this out for oneself? Can't one be aware of one's own reaction and see whether it is a self-motivated reaction, or it is kindly, free? You know, somebody is hurting, you naturally interfere. But if one is not aware of one's own reactions, it may be selfish reaction, make yourself important. Is that question good enough? May we go to the next one? | 1:07:58 所以我们已经 检视、观察了这个世界上的仇恨。 各国政府正在维持延续它。 人类正在维持延续它。 当我说，我是一个英国人， 那我就是在维持延续仇恨， 因为“英国人”同样也意味着（会有） 法国人、德国人，或者无论什么人， 这是一个孤立隔绝的过程。 当有了孤立隔绝， 就必定会有冲突。 我会去杀了别人， 策划组织一场谋杀。 而我们也观察到了 我们从小开始所受到的那些伤害。 |
| 1:08:57 5th question: The violence and disorder of the world demands from us an urgency and intensity of response which we seem to lack. Our individual awareness is inadequate. Can there be a deeper awareness which meets the enormity of the problem? | 1:08:57 去观察它，由此它便可以被 彻底地清理掉、抹除掉， 这意味着要接纳自己的脆弱， 这意味着变得「敏感」。 一个敏感的人并不是一个 易受伤害的人，他只是保持敏感。 |
| 1:09:21 The violence and disorder of the world demands from us an urgency and intensity of response which we seem to lack. Our intellectual awareness is inadequate. Can there be a deeper awareness which meets the enormity of the problem? | 1:09:21 因为一个敏感之人， 他会有所「注意」、 保持「警醒」。 而当有了「注意」， 就不会有 受到伤害的空间了。 我们同样也审视和观察了 「关系」 ——「关系」在我们的生活中 是非常重要的。 我们是不可能 脱离「关系」而生活的。 你也许可以独自跑到深山老林里去， 但你仍旧是处于「关系」中的。 |
| 1:09:58 Let's enquire together, please, what is it to be aware? To be aware, to be conscious, to be cognizant. To be sensitive to everything: to nature, to people around you, sensitive in your own reactions. What does it mean to be aware? Is one aware of this marquee? Or you take it for granted. Have you counted the number of poles in this marquee? Have you looked at the trees? Not give it a name, but to be aware of it, to be sensitive to it. Or is one aware of the person sitting next to you? Aware of his physical movement, how he looks at people? 1:11:27 Aware of his clothes, his dress, or whatever it is? Or we are all so self-centred, we haven't time? We have no regard for another. We are so entangled with our own problems, with our own misery, that we don't look at anything else. So to be aware, does it not mean to see, feel, look without any choice of what is happening? To be aware of what is happening in the world, not necessarily from newspapers and magazines, but to be aware that there are wars going on, people are killing each other. Thousands of years of shedding tears, and we don't seem to have learned anything. 1:12:52 To be aware of all this without any choice. One is aware as a British, what is happening here, one knows very well. But one isn't aware globally, as a human being. So are we aware in such a sense, a global feeling of mankind? Not the Arab and the Israelis, and the British and the French, and America, and so on. It becomes rather silly all that kind of stuff. To be so aware of this human suffering, human sorrow, human pleasure. And if one is so aware, which is not concentration at all – aware. Then the questioner says, is there an awareness of something very deep, from which you act? 1:14:09 That is what the questioner asks. Then there is attention. Awareness and attention, not concentration. Concentration is merely focusing all your energy on a particular point. That we can do fairly easily. When you are interested in certain subjects, certain ideas, certain story, you are completely concentrated. Or you may force yourself to concentrate, which is to resist other intrusions of other thoughts. But awareness is different: to be aware, to be sensitive, to have this feeling of a movement which is total, which is human. 1:15:14 And attention is this quality in which there is no centre from which you are attending. Which means no frontiers to attention, no borders. When there is that quality of attention, which is part of love and compassion and intelligence, then from there, one acts or non-act. | 1:09:58 “处于关系中”意味着 你背负着全世界所有人的泪水、 欢笑、痛苦、 焦虑、孤独 ——这些东西就在那里。 你或许可以从身体层面逃离退隐， 但你的肩头还是会扛着 所有那些重担。 由于「关系」是 无比重要的东西， 我们依靠「关系」而活。 所以我们是不可能 逃离关系的， 但我们却在决定着 关系应该是怎样的， 于是我们便受困于其中了。 我们在自己的关系中 彼此杀戮。 所以我们必须要 非常非常深入地去探询…… 「关系」和「爱」 的本质。 当有了一个「起因」， 就会有一个「结束」， 在那种关系中 会有冲突与残忍。 所以我们必须要去搞清楚 什么是「爱」。 1:11:27 如果「爱」有了起因动机： “我爱你是因为……” 我的天哪。 那它（爱）就成了一种交易。 我们要去发现更多的真相， 也就是去发现 那种没有起因动机的生活。 你们理解它们的 暗示含义了吗？ 这种生活…… ——这种生活方式—— 它是没有「终点」的。 1:12:52 好了，我们最好还是到此为止吧。 1:14:09 好了，我们最好还是到此为止吧。 1:15:14 |
| 1:15:52 Can we go on to the next one? That is the last one. | 1:15:52 |
| 1:15:58 6th question: At the talks you give, many of us feel or sense something of immeasurable importance. This is not romantic fantasy or illusion. It is more profoundly real than much of the rest of our lives. But after I leave, I cannot stop the gradual dissipation of that great profoundness. Sir, this is a true tragedy. What can one do? | 1:15:58 |
| 1:16:44 At the talks you give, many of us feel or sense something of immeasurable importance. This is not romantic fantasy or illusion. It is more profoundly real than much of the rest of our lives. But after I leave, I cannot stop the gradual dissipation of that great profoundness. Sir, this is a true tragedy. What can one do? | 1:16:44 |
| 1:17:32 K: First, if I may most respectfully ask, are you being influenced? Are you being stimulated? Are you being driven by the words of the speaker, or the feeling of the speaker, of what he says as true as for himself, being influenced by all that? Then if you are influenced, and I hope you are not, if you are, then it becomes a drug. Then you lose it. Then you can't help dissipating that which you have been driven to, or influenced, or that which has been said or felt. 1:18:42 If it acts as a drug then it must disappear quickly or gradually. But if one – this again is being said most humbly – if one actually hears what is being said, and discovers for oneself the truth, then one is a light to oneself. That light itself can never be put out, can never be extinguished. But if one is dependent on another, however much the other may have something, if it is not part of one's life, one's daily beauty of this, then dissipation is inevitable. 1:19:58 And the tragedy is that all of us do listen, sometimes profoundly, sometimes casually, but that very seed is there. But we never give it an opportunity to let it flower. The world is too much with us. And to be conscious of all this: the vastness of the earth, the vastness of the human brain, and love and all that, is so. If one comes to it, not just verbally, romantically or sentimentally, but actually, then that fire can never be put out. | 1:17:32 1:18:42 1:19:58 |
| 1:20:57 Right, sir. May I get up, please? | 1:20:57 |
