克里希那穆提 - 「智慧」带来了秩序与和平

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR82T3 - 「智慧」带来了秩序与和平第三次公开演讲英国，布洛克伍德公园 1982年9月4日
1:23 Krishnamurti: We have got two more talks, today and tomorrow morning. I think we ought to talk over together whether it is at all possible to live at peace in this world, considering what is happening on the earth where man is living. He has brought about a great deal of chaos, wars, and the terrible things that are going on in the world. This is not a pessimistic or optimistic point of view, but just looking at the facts as they are. Apparently, it is not possible to have peace on this earth, to live with friendship, with affection with each other in our lives. And to live at peace, to have some peace with oneself and with the world, one needs to have a great deal of intelligence. 2:50 Not just the word, 'peace' and strive to live a peaceful life which then becomes merely a rather vegetating life, but to enquire whether it is possible to live in this world where there is such disorder, such unrighteousness – if we can use the old fashioned word – whether one can live at all with a certain quality of a mind and a heart that is at peace with itself. Not everlastingly striving, striving, in conflict, in competition, in imitation and conformity, but to live, not a satisfied life not a fulfilled life, not a life that has achieved some result in this life, some fame or some notoriety, or some wealth, but to have a quality of peace. 4:26 We ought to talk about it together. We ought to go into it cooperatively to find out if it is at all possible for us to have such peace. Not peace of mind, that will just be a piece, a small part, but to have this peculiar quality of being undisturbed, but tremendously alive, undisturbed, tranquil, quiet, with a sense of dignity, without any sense of vulgarity – whether one can live such a life.	1:23 克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：我们还有两次演讲，今天一次、明天早上一次。我认为我们应该一起来谈论一下：我们究竟有没有可能和平地生活在这个世界上，去想一想这个人类所生活的地球上正在发生些什么事情。人类已经带来了巨大的混乱、战争，以及这个世界上正在进行着的那些可怕的事情。这并不是什么悲观或乐观的观点，而只是在如实地看那些事实。很显然，我们不可能在这个地球上拥有和平，不可能带着人类的友谊、带着那种我们生活中彼此间的感情而生活。而要和平地生活，拥有一些我们内心的平静与这个世界的和平，我们需要有巨大的智慧。 2:50 不只是高喊“和平”这个词，然后努力去过一种和平的生活，那样的话它就仅仅变成了一种躺平混日子的生活，而是要去探询是否可能生活在这个世界中 ——这个世界是如此的混乱无序、如此的“不公正” ——如果我们可以使用这个很老套的词的话—— 我们究竟是否可能带着那种「自身平静」的…… 头脑和心灵的品质而生活呢？不是永无止息地去努力、去奋斗、去冲突、去竞争、去模仿和遵从，而是去过一种…… 并非追求满足、追求成就的生活，不是那种为了在生活中取得某些成就、获得一些名气或者变得臭名昭著，或者获得一些财富的生活，而是要拥有一种「平静」的品质。 4:26 我们应该一起来探讨一下它。我们应该来探究它，携手合作去发现对于我们来说，究竟是否可能拥有这种「和平」。不是头脑的平静，那只是其中的一块内容、其中的一小部分，而是要拥有这种特别的品质 ——它不会被打扰，并且充满无穷的活力，它不会受干扰、很安宁、很安静，带着一种尊严感，而没有任何粗俗感 ——我们能否去过这样的生活。
5:25 I do not know if one has asked such a question surrounded by total disorder. I think one must be very clear about that: there is total disorder, outwardly. Every morning, you read a newspaper, it is something terrible: aeroplanes that can travel at such astonishing speed from one corner of the earth to the other without having refuelled, carrying great weight of bombs, gases that can destroy man in a few seconds. To observe all this, and to realise what man has come to. And in asking this question, you may say that is impossible, that it is not at all possible to live in this world utterly, inwardly undisturbed. 6:54 To have no problems, to live a life utterly not self-centred. How shall we talk about this? Talking, using words, has very little meaning, but to find out through the words, through communicating with each other, to find or discover, or come upon a state that is utterly still. That requires intelligence, not a fantasy, not some peculiar daydreaming called meditation, not some form of self-hypnosis, but to come upon it, as we said, requires intelligence.	5:25 我不知道我们有没有问过这样的问题我们周围是一片彻底的混乱。我认为我们必须非常清楚这一点：即外部的世界是彻底混乱的。每天早上，当你阅读报纸，你都会看到一些可怕骇人的事情：我们的飞机能够以如此惊人的速度飞行，从地球的一个角落飞到另一个角落，中途还不需要加油，它还能够携带无比沉重的炸弹，而毒气战可以在几秒钟之内就把人弄死。观察到所有这一切，我们会意识到人类已经处于怎样的境地了。而在询问这个问题的时候，你也许会说那是不可能的，要生活在这个世界上保持内心完全不受干扰，这绝对不可能。 6:54 没有任何问题，去过一种完全没有自我中心的生活。我们要如何来讨论它呢？光是讨论，使用语言文字是没有多大意义的，而是要透过语言文字、透过彼此间的交流去找到、去发现或者去邂逅那种「完全寂静」的状态 ——而这需要智慧，不是幻想，不是某种被称为“冥想”的奇特的白日梦，不是某种自我催眠，而是要去「邂逅」它
8:24 So we have to ask, what is intelligence? As we said the other day, to perceive that which is illusory, that which is false, not actual, and to discard it, not merely assert that is false, and continue in the same way. But to discard it completely. That is part of intelligence. To see, for example, nationalism, with all its peculiar patriotism, isolation, narrowness, is very destructive in this world. It is a poison in the world. And seeing the truth of it is to discard that which is false. 9:35 That is intelligence. But to keep on with it, acknowledging it is stupid, but keep on, that is essentially part of stupidity and disorder. It creates disorder. So intelligence is, is it not – we are talking over together – I am not saying it is, or it is not. We are investigating very seriously into this question, what is intelligence, which alone can bring about in one's life complete order and peace? And we said, that can come about only when there is this extraordinary quality of intelligence. 10:39 And intelligence is not the clever pursuit of argument, of opposing knowledge, contradictory opinions, and through opinions find truth, which is impossible, but to realise that the activity of thought with all its capacities, with all its subtleties, the extraordinary width of thought is not intelligence. Intelligence is beyond thought. Please, don't agree with the speaker. We are looking at it, going into it.	8:24 ——而就如我们说过的，这需要有智慧才行。所以，我们必须要问一下：什么是「智慧」？就如我们前几天说过的，我们要看清那个虚幻的、 82 错误的、不真实的东西，去丢弃掉它，而不仅仅只是宣称它是错误的，然后继续老样子。而是要彻底地丢弃掉它。这就是「智慧」的一部分。举个例子，去看到这一点：即国家主义及其特有的爱国精神、孤立化和狭隘化，它毁掉了这个世界，它毒害了这个世界。而看到这个真相，其实就是在抛弃错误的东西。 9:35 这就是智慧。然而一直保持着它，承认它是愚蠢的，但还是继续老样子，这本质上来说就是愚蠢和混乱的一部分。它制造出了混乱。所以智慧就是……它是否就是…… ——我们正在一起讨论它—— 我并没有在说它是什么，或者它不是什么。我们正在非常认真严肃地探究这个问题，什么是「智慧」 ——唯有智慧才能给我们的生活带来完全的秩序与和平。而我们说：想要让这种智慧出现，只有当有了那种智慧非凡的品质才可以。 10:39 「智慧」并不是聪明地去追求思辨论证，追求对立的知识、彼此矛盾的观点，然后通过各种观点去发现真相 ——这其实是不可能的，智慧是去认识到：那就是思想的活动、思想所有的能力、所有的精明狡猾，以及思想非凡的广度…… ——认识到这些东西都不是「智慧」。智慧是超越思想的。请注意，不要同意演讲者的说法。我们正在审视它、探究它。
11:50 So one has to find out, in order to live peacefully, what is disorder? Why we human beings, who are supposed to be extraordinarily evolved, which I doubt, extraordinarily capable in certain directions, why they live and tolerate disorder in their daily life? If we can discover the root of this disorder, the cause, and observe it carefully, the very observation of that which is the cause, that in that observation there is the awakening of intelligence. Not that there should be order, and striving to bring about order. 12:54 That is, a confused, disorderly brain, or activity of one's life, that disorder, that state of mind which is contradictory, opposing, such a mind seeking order will still be disorder. I don't know if we comprehend this. I am confused, uncertain, going from one thing to another, burdened with many problems. Such a life, such a mind, such a way of living – from there I want order. Then my order is born out of my confusion, and therefore, it is still confused. I don't know if you see this. Right?	11:50 所以我们必须要去发现这一点，从而能够和平地生活，什么是混乱呢？为什么我们人类 ——人类被认为是高度进化的，虽然我很怀疑这一点—— 人类在某些领域方向上是极其能干的，但为什么他们会去过一种混乱的日常生活，并且容忍这种混乱？如果我们可以发现这种混乱的根源、发现那个原因，然后小心翼翼地观察它，那么对于那个原因的「观察」本身，在那种观察之中，智慧便会觉醒。而不是说我们应该要有「秩序」，然后努力去带来「秩序」。 12:54 换句话说，一个混乱的、无序的大脑，或者我们生活中混乱无序的活动，这种「混乱无序」、这种自相矛盾的、互相对立的头脑状态，当这样的头脑去寻求秩序，它仍旧会是「混乱无序」。我不知道我们是否理解了这一点。我感到混乱困惑、不确定，于是我从一个玩意儿转移到另一个玩意儿，背负着无数的问题。我有着这样的生活、这样的头脑、这样的生活方式 ——然后我想要通过它们来获得“秩序”。然而那时我的“秩序” 是源自于我的混乱的，因此，它仍旧是混乱困惑的。我不知道你们是否看到了这一点。是这样吧？
14:04 When I choose order out of disorder, the choice is still based on disorder. When this is clear, then what is disorder? The cause of it? As we said, it has many causes: the desire to fulfil, the anxiety of not fulfilling, the contradictory life one lives, saying one thing, doing totally different things, trying to suppress, and to achieve something. These are all contradictions in oneself. And one can find out many causes, but the pursuit of searching of causes, is endless. Whereas, if we could ask ourselves, is there one cause out of all these many causes? Is there one root cause? 15:31 Obviously, there must be. And we are saying that the root cause of this is the self, the me, the ego, the personality, which in itself is put together by thought, by memory, by various experiences, by certain words, certain qualities, and so on. That feeling of separateness, isolation, that is the root cause of this disorder. However that self tries not to be self, it is still the pursuit of the self. Right? The self may identify with the nation, that very identification with the larger is still glorified self. And each one of us is doing that in different ways. So there is the self which is put together by thought, that is the root cause of this total disorder in which we live. 17:16 If we say that it is impossible to get rid of the self, that is a wrong question. But when we observe what causes disorder, unless one has become so accustomed to disorder, so one has lived in such disorder, we accept it as natural. But when we begin to question it, and go into it, and see that is the root of it, to observe it, not to do anything about it, then that very observation begins to dissolve the centre which is the cause of disorder. Are we following all this together?	14:04 当我从混乱之中选择了“秩序”，这种「选择」仍旧是基于混乱的。当这一点清楚了以后，那么「混乱」又是什么呢？混乱的起因是什么？就如我们说过的，混乱有着很多的起因：想要实现的渴望，无法实现所导致的焦虑，我们所过的那种自相矛盾的生活，说的是一套，而做的完全是另一套，努力去压抑，然后去取得一些成就。这些全都是我们内在的矛盾。我们可以发现很多的原因，然而追逐着去寻找各种原因，这是永无尽头的。然而，如果我们可以问问自己，在这么多原因之中，是否存在一个根本原因？ 15:31 有没有一个根本性的原因？很显然，肯定是有的。而我们说：这个根本性的原因就是「我自己」 ——那个「我」、那个自我、那个人格，而它本身是由思想、记忆、各种经验、某些词语文字、某些品质等等所拼凑起来的。而那种分离独立、孤立的感受 ——它就是导致这种混乱失序的根本性原因。无论那个「自我」多么努力地去消除自我，它都仍然是那个「自我」的追求。是吧？「自我」也许会将自己认同于某个国家，但这种与更宏大事物的认同本身仍旧是在美化自我。而我们每个人都在以不同的方式做着这样的事情。所以存在着那个由思想所拼凑起来的「自我」，而它就是我们所生活于其中的这种彻底混乱的根本性原因。 17:16 而如果我们说：摆脱掉这个「自我」是不可能的，那么这就是一个错误的问题。然而如果我们可以去观察一下是什么导致了混乱 ——除非你们已经非常习惯于处于混乱中了，所以，我们生活在这种混乱中，而我们接受了它，将其视为是自然的。然而当我们开始去质疑它、去探究它，然后看到这就是混乱的根源所在，去观察这个根源，但不要对它做任何事情，那么这种观察本身就会开始消解掉那个导致了混乱的「中心」。我们都理解这一切了吗？
18:15 And we said, intelligence is the perception of that which is true, putting aside totally that which is false, and seeing the truth in the false, and realizing all the activities of thought is not intelligence. Because thought itself is the outcome of knowledge which is the result of experience as memory, and the response of that memory is thought. And so knowledge is always limited. That is obvious. There is no perfect knowledge. So, thought with all its activity and with its knowledge is not intelligence. So what we are asking is, what place has knowledge in life? 19:49 Because all our life is based on thought. Whatever we do is based on thought. Right? That is clear. All our activity is based on thought. Our relationship is based on thought. Our inventions, the technological and the non-technological is still the activity of thought. The gods we have created, and the rituals: the mass, and the whole circus of all that is the product of thought. So what place has knowledge in the degeneration of man? Please, you must go into this. You must ask this question. Can we proceed?	18:15 而我们说，「智慧」就是去洞察到那个真实之物，将那些虚假错误的东西完全抛弃，去看到虚假之物的真相，从而了悟到所有思想的活动都不是「智慧」。因为思想本身是知识的产物 ——「知识」是作为「记忆」的经验的结果，而那种记忆的反应就是「思想」。因此知识永远都是局限的。这是显而易见的。并不存在什么“完美的知识”。所以，思想及其所有的活动与知识，它并不是「智慧」。对吧？因此，我们就要问了：那「知识」在生活中的位置是什么呢？ 19:49 因为我们的整个生活都是建立在「思想」之上的。我们所做的任何事情都是基于「思想」的。是吧？这是很清楚的事。我们所有的行为活动都是基于思想的。我们的关系是基于思想的。我们的各种发明物 ——无论是科技上的、还是非科技上的发明物，它们仍旧是思想的活动。我们所创造出来的那些“神明”和宗教仪式：弥撒，以及所有这一类的闹剧 ——它们全都是思想的产物。所以，在人类的堕落退化中，知识占据了什么样的位置？拜托了，你们必须要去探究这一点。你们必须要问问这个问题。我们可以继续讲下去吗？
21:01 We have accumulated immense knowledge in the world of science: psychology, biology mathematics, and so on – a great deal of knowledge. And we think through knowledge we will ascend, we will liberate ourselves, we will transform ourselves. And we are questioning, what is the place of knowledge in life? Has knowledge transformed us? Made us good? Again, an old-fashioned word. Has it given us integrity? Is it part of justice? 22:07 Has it given us freedom? Of course it has given us freedom in the sense of we can travel, communicate from one country to another. So, all based on knowledge and thought. Better communication, better systems of learning, and so on. The computer and the atom bomb – all that is the result of a great deal of accumulated knowledge. And has this knowledge given us freedom? A life that is just? A life that is essentially good?	21:01 我们已经积累起了无数的知识 ——科学世界中的知识、心理学的知识、生物学的知识、数学知识，等等 ——大量的知识。然后我们认为通过「知识」我们将获得提升，我们就可以解放我们自己，我们就可以转变我们自己。而我们正在询问：「知识」在生活中有着怎样的位置？「知识」是否已经转变了我们？让我们变「善」了？「善」也是一个老掉牙的词了。它是否让我们变得正直了？它是不是「公正」的一部分？它是否给予了我们自由？ 22:07 毫无疑问，它给我们带来了一些自由，比如我们可以更自由地旅行，一个国家可以和另一个国家通讯交流。所以，这一切都是建立在「知识」和「思想」之上的。更好的通讯方式，更好的学习系统，等等。电脑和原子弹 ——所有这些都是大量知识积累以后的成果。然而这些知识，它给我们带来自由了吗？它给我们带来了公正的生活吗？一种从根本上来说是「善」的生活吗？
23:24 So we again examine those three words: freedom,	23:24 所以我们需要再次检视一下这三个词：自由、公正和「善」。
23:30 justice and goodness. This had been one of the problems, these three words, in the ancient people who have always struggled to find out if one can live with a life that is just. That word, 'just' means to be righteous, to have righteousness, to act benevolently, to act with generosity, not deal with hatreds, antagonisms. You know what it means to lead a just, right kind of life? Not according to a pattern, not according to some fanciful, projected ideals by thought, but a life that has great affection, a life that is just, true, accurate. 25:00 And in this world there is no justice. You are clever: I am not. You have power: I haven't. You can travel all over the world, meet all the prominent people. And I live in a little town, work day after day, live in a small room. Where is the justice there? And is justice to be found in external activities? That is, you may become the prime minister, the president, the head of a big intercontinental business, great corporations. I may be forever a clerk, way down below. A soldier. So do we seek justice out there? Which is, we are trying to bring about an egalitarian state. 26:29 All over the world they are trying it, thinking that will bring about justice. Or, justice is to be found away from all that? Please, when I am asking this, you are asking this question, not the speaker. The speaker is only putting into words that which we are enquiring into. Justice involves a certain integrity, to be whole, integral, not broken up, not fragmented, which can only take place when there is no comparison. But we are always comparing: better cars, better houses, better positions, better power, and so on. 28:04 That is measurement. Where there is measurement there cannot be justice. You follow? Please see. Where there is imitation, conformity, there cannot be justice – following somebody. We listen to these words, we don't see the beauty, the quality, the depth of these things, and we may superficially agree, and walk away from it. But the words, the comprehension of the depth of it, must leave a mark, a seed. Justice must be in there, in us.	23:30 而这三个词也是古时候人们的问题之一，古人也一直在努力去发现是否他们可以过一种「公正的生活」。「公正」这个词的意思是「正直」，去变得正直，做出仁慈的行为、慷慨大方的行为，不要沾染仇恨、敌意。你们应该知道“去过一种公正与正确的生活” 是什么意思吧？不是依照某个模板、不是根据某个思想所投射出来的、充满幻想的理想而生活，而是一种蕴含着巨大情感的生活，一种公正的、真实的、正确无误的生活。 25:00 这个世界上并没有什么「公正」可言。你很聪明，而我并不聪明。你拥有权力，而我没有。你可以旅行世界各地，会见所有那些杰出的人物。而我只能住在一个小镇上，日复一日地工作，蜗居在一个很小的房间里。所以这个世界上哪里有什么「公正」可言呢？然而「公正」是要在外部的活动中才能找到吗？换句话说，你也许成为了首相、总统，成为了一笔大型洲际生意的负责人，大公司的老板。而我也许永远只能做一名底层的职员。只能做一个小兵。所以我们还要在这个领域中寻求「公正」吗？也就是，我们正在努力建设一个 “人人平等”的国家。 26:29 全世界的人们都在为之而努力，认为这样就可以带来「公正」。还是说，「公正」要在远离所有这些东西的地方才能找到？请注意，当我问它时，是你在询问这个问题 ——而不是演讲者。演讲者只是将…… 我们正在探询的东西用言语表达出来罢了。「公正」中蕴含了某种程度的正直、圆满的存在、完整的存在，不是四分五裂的，不是支离破碎的 ——而这只有当没有了「比较」以后才会发生。然而我们却总是在比较：更好的汽车、更豪华的房子、更高的地位、更大的权力，等等。 28:04 这就是「量度」。当有了「量度」，就不可能会有「公正」。你们跟上了吗？请看到这一点。当有了模仿与遵从，就不可能会有「公正」了 ——当你去追随某个人时。我们听到了这些话语，但我们并没有看到它们的美、它们的品质、和它们的深刻意义，我们也许会表面上同意它，然后转身就忘得一干二净了。然而这些话语，以及对它深刻意义的领悟，必须要留下一道印记、一个种子才行。「公正」必须要在那里——在我们心中。
29:17 And also the word 'goodness', it is a very old-fashioned word, one hardly ever uses that word anymore. The other day, we were talking to some psychologists – fairly well known. And one used that word. He was horrified. He said, 'That is an old-fashioned word, don't use that word'. But one likes that good word. So, what is goodness? It is not the opposite of that which is bad. If it is the opposite of that which is bad, then goodness has its roots in badness. 30:27 I don't know if one realises this. Anything that has an opposite must have its roots in its own opposite. Right? So goodness is not related to that which we consider bad. It is totally divorced from the other. So we must look at it as it is, not as a reaction to the opposite. Right? Goodness implies a quality of deep integrity. Integrity is to be whole, not broken up, not inwardly fragmented. And goodness also means a way of life which is righteous, not in terms of church, or morality, or ethical concepts of righteousness, but a person who sees that which is true and that which is false, and sustains that quality of sensitivity that sees it immediately and acts. 32:13 And the word 'freedom' is a very complex word. When there is freedom there is justice, there is goodness. So we have to enquire together, what is freedom?	29:17 再来谈谈「善」这个词，这是一个老掉牙的词了，我们几乎已经不再使用这个词了。前几天，我们和一些心理学家进行了交谈 ——一些非常有名的心理学家。当我使用了这个词（善）以后，对方有点惊骇。他说，“这是一个很老套的词了，还是不要用它了”。但是某人（指克氏自己）还是很喜欢这个好词的。所以，什么是「善」呢？「善」并不是 “恶的事物”的反面。如果它是 “恶”的反面，那这种“善”就是根植于“恶”之中的。 30:27 我不知道你们是否能领悟到这一点。任何拥有其对立面的事物，它必定是根植于那个对立面事物的。是吧？所以，「善」和那个我们所认为的“恶的事物” 并没有关系。「善」是完全脱离于它的。所以我们必须要如实地去观察它，而不是将其作为一种对立面事物的反应。好吧？「善」意味着一种无比正直的品质。而「正直」就是变得「圆满」，它不是四分五裂的，它内在不是支离破碎的。而「善」同样意味着一种「公正」的生活方式，这种「公正」不是教会所理解的“公正”，或者道德意义上的“公正”，也不是伦理概念上的“公正”，而是指一个人能看到真实的东西、也看清了虚假的东西，并且能一直保持着这种「敏感」的品质 ——也就是能够立即看到真实/虚假，然后做出行动。 32:13 而“自由”这个词则是一个非常复杂的词。当有了自由，就会有公平正义，就会有「善」了。所以我们必须要一起来探询一下：什么是「自由」？
32:41 Please sir, we are going together in this not just you are listening to the speaker. If you are merely listening to the speaker and getting some ideas out of it – I hope you are not – if you are merely listening to it, then it becomes another lecture, another sermon, and one is fed up with all that kind of stuff. Might as well just go to church. But if the words ring a bell, if the words awaken, the depth of that word, if the word opens up a door through which you see the enormity of that word. Not, 'I want to be free from my anger', that is all rather... or, 'I have a headache, and I must be free from it', or, 'I have a relationship which is rather tiresome, boring, and I want to get a divorce'. 34:08 Freedom for us, has been the capacity to choose. Because one chooses, one thinks one is free. Right? That is so. Because you can choose to go abroad, you can choose your work, you can choose what you want to do. But in the totalitarian world you cannot do all that. There, they stamp it all down. They want you to conform, obey, follow. In the so-called democratic world there is still the choice of so-called freedom. Where there is choice is there freedom? Please go into it. Who chooses? And why does one have to choose? When one is very clear in one's capacity to think objectively, impersonally, not sentimentally, very precise, there is no need for choice, when there is freedom. 35:54 That is, when there is no confusion then there is no choice. It is only a confused mind that chooses. This is so. You look at yourself. When you choose between two parliamentarians you don't know for whom to vote. So you choose one whom you like, who sounds rather good verbally, but you know all that game.	32:41 请注意，先生，我们要一起来探讨它，而不只是你听演讲者说。如果你只是听演讲者说，然后从中获得某些观点看法 ——我希望你没有这么做—— 如果你只是听我讲，那么这就变成了另一堂讲课、另一场布道了，而某人（指克氏自己）已经受够了所有这类事情。那你们还不如干脆去教堂得了。但如果这些话语惊醒了你、唤醒了你，这些话的深层意义，如果这些话打开了一扇大门，从而让你看到了它的重要性。不是说“我想要摆脱掉我的愤怒”，那就太或者说“我感到头痛，我必须要消除掉头痛”，或者“我有一段相当烦人且无趣的关系，它让我想要离婚”。 34:08 对于我们来说，“自由”一直都是那种可以选择的能力。因为我们可以选择，所以我们认为自己是自由的。对吧？就是如此。因为你可以选择去国外旅游，你可以选择你的工作，你可以选择去做你想要做的事。然而在极权主义世界里，你是无法去做所有这些事的。在那些地方，他们压制了所有这一切。他们只想要你遵从、服从、听话。但在所谓的“民主世界”里，仍然存在着那种被称为“自由”的选择。然而当有了「选择」，还会有「自由」吗？请你们探究一下它。是谁在选择呢？为什么我们需要去选择呢？当一个人已经清清楚楚、明明白白，能够去客观地思考，能够抛开个人因素、不感情用事、无比准确地去思考，那他就不需要做什么“选择”了，因为那时他已经有了「自由」。 35:54 换句话说，当没有了混乱困惑，那时也就不会有「选择」了。只有一个混乱困惑的头脑才需要去选择。就是这样。你可以看看你自己。当你需要在两名议员中选择一位，你不知道应该投票给谁。你就会选择那个你喜欢的人，那个嘴上功夫相当好的人，你们很清楚所有这些游戏。
36:33 So what is freedom? Freedom is not the opposite of imprisonment, then again it becomes a totally different kind of escape. So freedom is not escape from anything. That means a brain that has been conditioned by knowledge – knowledge always limited, and therefore always living within the field of ignorance – such a brain, which is the machinery of thought, through thought there can be no freedom. I wonder if we understand all this. That is, we all live in a certain kind of fear: fear of tomorrow, fear of things that have happened in many yesterdays. And we seek freedom from that fear. 38:14 So freedom has a cause. That is, I am afraid. I have found the cause of that fear, and now, I have got rid of that fear, therefore I am free. Where there is a cause, the effect can end. Like a disease, if one has, and the enquiry into that disease and the cause of that disease, then that disease can be cured. So if we think in terms of causation and freedom then that freedom is not freedom at all. Freedom implies not just at certain periods of life, but freedom right through one's life. And therefore, freedom has no cause. Are you following all this?	36:33 那么，什么是「自由」呢？「自由」并不是「被囚禁」的反面，否则的话，它又会变成一种截然不同的「逃避」了。而「自由」并不是逃离任何东西。这意味着一个被知识所制约的大脑 ——知识永远是局限的，因此它总是驻留于无知的范畴中的—— 而这样的大脑，它就是一个思想的机器，而通过「思想」是不可能会有「自由」的。我不知道我们是否都理解了这一切。换句话说，我们都生活在某种恐惧中：害怕明天，害怕无数昨日发生过的事情。然后我们会寻求摆脱掉那种恐惧。 38:14 于是这种“自由”便有了一个起因。也就是说，我感到害怕，然后我找到了害怕的原因，而现在，我已经摆脱掉了恐惧，所以我就算是“自由”了。当有了一个起因，（它所造成的）结果就可以结束。就像疾病一样，如果你得病了，那就去调查研究这个病以及这个病的成因，然后这个病就可以被治愈。所以如果我们是从“有了起因然后（获得）自由解脱”的角度去思考，而这种“自由” 根本就不是自由。「自由」意味着并不只是在某一段生命时期里获得自由，而是一辈子都自由。因此，自由是没有「起因」的。你们跟上所有这些了吗？
39:31 Now, with all this being stated, let's look at the cause of sorrow, and whether that cause can ever end. Because man, we all of us have suffered in one way or another, through death, through lack of love, or having love for another and not receiving in return. Sorrow has many, many faces. And man has tried to escape from sorrow from the ancient of times. And we still live, after all these million years, we still live with sorrow. 40:48 Man has shed, or woman too, man has shed untold tears. There have been wars which have brought such agony to human beings, great anxiety. And apparently, we have not been able to be free from that sorrow. This is not a rhetorical question, but is it possible for a human brain, human mind, human being, to be totally free from the anxiety of sorrow and all the human travail with regard to it?	39:31 好了，在讲完了所有这些以后，让我们来看一下苦难的起因，以及这个起因是否能够结束吧。因为人类，我们所有人都在以这样或那样的方式受苦，死亡的痛苦，缺少爱的痛苦，或者爱上了别人，但却没有得到对方的爱。「苦」是多种多样的。而人类一直在试图逃离痛苦 ——从很久很久以前开始就在做这事了。然而在经过了几百万年以后，我们仍然…… 我们仍然生活在痛苦中。 40:48 男人留下了泪水，女人也一样，人类曾经流过数不尽的泪水。那些战争给人类带来了如此巨大的痛苦，如此巨大的忧虑。但很显然，我们还是没能脱离苦海。这并不是一个随口说出的反问句 ——但我想问：人类的大脑是否可能人类的心灵、人类是否可能完全地摆脱掉对于痛苦的焦虑，以及所有与之有关的人类的艰难困苦？
42:02 Let's go together, walk along the same path to find out. Along the same road, let's walk together to see if we can, in our daily life, end this terrible burden which man has carried from the time he has lived until now. How do you approach such a question? We are asking, the question is: the ending of sorrow. How do you approach it? What is your reaction to that question? What is the state of your mind, your quality, when a question of that kind is put to us? 43:14 'My son is dead', 'my husband is gone', 'I have friends who have betrayed me', 'I have followed, and it has been fruitless after 20 years'. Sorrow has such great beauty and pain in it. Now, how does each one of us react to that question? Do we say, I don't want to even look at it? I have suffered, it is the lot of man. I rationalise it, and accept it and go on. That is one way of dealing with it. But you haven't solved the problem. Or you transmit that sorrow to a symbol, and worship that symbol, as it is done in Christianity. 44:50 Or as the ancient Hindus have done, it is your lot, your karma. Or in the modern world, you say your parents are responsible for it, or your society, or you inherited genetically some kind of genes, and you have to suffer for it, and so on. There have been a thousand explanations, but these explanations have not resolved the ache and the pain of sorrow.	42:02 让我们一同前行，沿着同一条道路走下去，去发现它。让我们沿着同一条路，一起前行，去看看我们是否能够在日常生活中终结掉这种人类所背负着的可怕的重担 ——从他出生起直到现在所背负着的重担。那么你要如何去处理这样的一个问题呢？我们正在询问它，我们的问题是：终结苦难。那么你要如何去处理它呢？你对于这个问题的反应是什么？你的头脑状态、你的素养品质…… 处于何种层次呢 ——当你被问及这样一个问题的时候？ 43:14 “我的儿子死了”， “我的丈夫去世了”， “我的朋友们背叛了我”， “我曾经追随某人，然而二十年过后，我还是一无所获”。在「苦难」中有着如此巨大的美与痛苦。那么，我们每个人对于这个问题会作出怎样的反应呢？我们是否会说：我甚至都不想要去看看这个问题？我经历了苦难，但这是全人类的共同命运。我会把这种痛苦合理化，接受它，然后继续生活。这是一种处理它的方式。然而你并没有解决这个问题。或者你会把那种苦难转嫁到某个象征符号上，然后去崇拜那个象征符号 ——就像基督教所做的那样。 44:50 或者就如古代印度人所做的那样：他们说这是你的命运，这是你的业力使然。又或者在现代世界中，你会说：你的父母要对此（你的痛苦）负责，或者你的社会要对此负责，或者它（痛苦）是因为：从基因学上来说，你遗传继承了某种基因，而你因此而受苦了，等等。我们有着上千种解释，然而这些解释并没有能够解决苦难带来的哀痛与痛苦。
45:41 So, how do I approach this question? Do we want to look at it face to face? Or casually? Or with trepidation? How do I approach such a problem? Approach means come near to the problem, very near. That is, is sorrow different from the observer who says, I am in sorrow? When he says, I am in sorrow, he has separated himself from that feeling. So he has not approached it at all. He is not touching it. So can we not avoid it, not transmit it, not escape from it, but come with such closeness to it, which means, I am sorrow. 47:23 Is that so? Like, I am anger. I am envy. But I have also invented an idea of non-envy, that invention has postponed, put it off. But the fact is, I am envy, I am sorrow. Do you realise what that means? Not, somebody has caused me sorrow, not, my son is dead, therefore I shed tears. I will shed tears for my son, for my wife, whoever it is, but that is an outward expression of that pain of loss. That loss is the result of my dependence on that person, my attachment, my clinging to it, my feeling I am lost without him. 48:49 So as usual, we try to act upon the symptoms. We never go to the very root of this enormous problem which is sorrow. So we are not talking about the outward effects of sorrow. If you are, you can take a drug and pacify yourself very quietly. Or take a pill and pass off for the rest of your life. Not for the rest of your life, you can end it. But we are trying, together, to find for ourselves, not be told, and then accept, but actually find for ourselves the root of it.	45:41 所以，我要如何来处理这个问题呢？我们想要面对面地直视这个问题吗？还是漫不经心地来处理它？或者是带着恐惧忧虑来处理它？我要如何来处理这样一个问题呢？「处理问题」意味着要靠近那个问题，非常靠近才行。换句话说，「痛苦」是否不同于那个…… 在说“我很痛苦”的观察者？当那个人说“我很痛苦”时，他就已经把自己和那种（痛苦的）感受分离开来了。所以他根本就没有在处理这个问题。他都没有触及到这个问题。所以我们能否不要去回避它、不要转嫁它，也不要逃避它，而是去无比地接近它，它的意思就是：我感到痛苦。 47:23 但事实是这样的吗？就好像我感到愤怒。我感到嫉妒。然而我同样也发明出了那种 “不嫉妒”的想法，而这个发明出来的想法就把嫉妒这件事推迟和延后了。然而事实却是：我很嫉妒，我很痛苦。你们意识到了这是什么意思吗？它并不是说：某人导致了我的痛苦，并不是我的儿子死了，所以我为之流泪了。我会为我的儿子、我的妻子、或者无论谁而流泪，但这只是丧亲之痛的一种外在表现。这种丧亲之痛是因为我依赖于那个人，我依恋他、我执著于他，因为我觉得没有了他，我就会迷失自我了。 48:49 所以就像往常一样，我们会试图去处理解决外在症状，我们从来不会去找到病根 ——也就是「痛苦」这个巨大问题的根源。所以我们并没有在谈论痛苦的外在结果。如果你感到疼痛，你大可以吃点药，悄然抚平你的痛苦，或者吃一颗药丸，浑浑噩噩地度过你的余生。如果不是余生浑噩，你也可能就此了结余生然而我们正在一起试着亲自去发现 ——不是让别人来告诉我们，然后我们接受它，而是真真切切地自己去发现痛苦的根源。
49:59 Is it time that causes pain? Time, not by the watch, or by the day, or sunrise, sunset, but the time that thought has invented in the psychological realm. You understand my question?	49:59 是不是「时间」导致了痛苦？时间——不是钟表上的时间、不是“年月日”的时间、或者“日出日落”的时间，而是思想在心理领域中发明出来的“时间”。你们理解我的问题吗？提问者：你所说的“心理上的时间” 是什么意思？
50:29 Questioner: What do you mean by psychological time?	50:29 克：我会来解释它的，先生。
50:32 K: I'll explain, sir. Have a little patience. We are asking a very serious question. You are not asking me what is psychological time. You are asking that question yourself. Perhaps the speaker may prompt you, put it into words, but it is your own question. I have had a son, a brother, a wife, father, mother, and I have lost, they're gone. They can never return. They are wiped away from the face of the earth. Of course, I can invent they are living on the other planes and you know, all that stuff. 51:40 But I have lost them. There is a photograph on the piano or the mantelpiece. My remembrance of them is time: how they loved me, how I loved them, what help they were. And they helped to cover up my loneliness. And the remembrance of them is a movement of time. They were there yesterday, and gone today. That is, the record has taken place in the brain. You understand? A remembrance is a recording on the tape of the brain. And that record is playing all the time: how I walked with them in the woods, my sexual remembrances, my companionship, the comfort I derived from them – all that is gone. 53:26 And the recording is going on. And this recording is memory. Memory is time. Please listen to this. If you are interested, go into it very deeply. If you are interested, I am not asking you to. I have lived with my brother, with my son. I have had happy days with them, enjoyed many things together, but they are gone. And the memory of them remains. It is that memory that is causing pain for which I am shedding tears in my loneliness. Now is it – please find out – is it possible not to record? 54:50 This is a very serious question. I have enjoyed the sun yesterday morning, early. So clear, so beautiful among the trees, casting a golden light on the lawn, with long shadows. It has been a pleasant, lovely morning, and it has been recorded. And I have enjoyed that morning, how beautiful it was – now the repetition begins. You understand? I have recorded that which has happened, which caused me delight, and that record, like in a gramophone or tape recorder, is repeated. That is the essence of time. 55:59 And is it possible not to record at all? That sunrise of yesterday, look at it, give your whole attention to it, and not record it. It is gone, that moment of light, that golden light on the lawn with long shadows is gone. But the memory of it remains. Look at that, and not record. The very attention of looking wipes away the recording.	50:32 请稍微耐心一些。我们正在询问一个非常严肃的问题。你不要问我 “什么是心理上的时间”。你要问问你自己这个问题。演讲者或许可以给你一些提示，把它用语言表达出来，但这是你自己的问题。我有过一个儿子、一个兄弟、一个妻子、一个父亲、母亲，然后我失去了他们，他们去世了。他们永远无法回来了。他们已经从这个地球上被抹去了。当然了，我可以发明出一种说法：说他们仍然活在另一个世界中，你们懂的，所有这类东西。 51:40 但我已经失去了他们。他们的照片就摆放在钢琴上或壁炉台上。而我对于他们的回忆就是「时间」：他们曾经多么爱我，我又是多么爱他们，他们帮了我多大的忙啊。他们帮助掩盖了我的孤独。而对于他们的记忆就是时间的运动。昨天他们还在那里，而今天他们就不见了。换句话说，这些记录已经铭刻在了大脑里。你们理解了吗？「回忆」就是大脑这盘“磁带”上的一段记录。而这段记录一直在播放着：我是如何与他们在树林中漫步的，我的那些性爱的回忆，我的伴侣，我从他们那里所获得的慰藉 ——所有这些都消失无影了。 53:26 然而那种记录却还在继续着。那种记录就是「记忆」。记忆就是时间。请你们听好了。如果你们有兴趣的话，请你们非常深入地探究它。「如果」你们有兴趣的话，我并没有要求你们感兴趣。我曾经和我的兄弟、和我的儿子一起生活。我曾经和他们一起度过了快乐的时光，我们一起享受了很多事情，然而他们却离去了。但关于他们的回忆仍旧留存着。正是这种记忆导致了痛苦，当我孤独的时候，我会为此而落泪。那么，我们是否可能…… ——请你们去发现它—— 是否可能不要去记录？ 54:50 这是一个非常严肃的问题。我欣赏过了昨日清晨的朝阳。它穿过了树木，如此的清澈与美丽，它在草地上洒下了一片金色的光芒，还有那长长的树影。那是一个令人愉快的、美好的早晨，这个早晨被记录下来了。我曾经享受过这样的早晨，它是多么的美丽 ——于是我便会开始去重复它。你们理解了吧？我已经记录下了那些发生过的事情 ——这些事情让我感到高兴，而这种记录，就像留声机或磁带录音机中的记录一样，会被重复。这就是「时间」的本质。 55:59 那么，我们是否可能完全不去记录呢？昨天的那次日出，你欣赏了它，你全神贯注于它，但你并没有去记录它。它已经是过去式了 ——那个日出光芒的时刻，那洒落在草地上的金色阳光和那些长长的影子已经消失了。然而关于它的记忆还留存着。你看着它，但却不去记录它。这种全神贯注的观察…… 就会抹除掉那个记录。
56:54 So we are asking, is time the root of sorrow? Is thought the root of sorrow? Of course. So thought and time are the centre of my life. I live on that. And when something happens which is so drastically painful, I return to that pattern, to those memories. And I shed tears. 'I wish he had been here to enjoy that sun when I was looking at it.' Don't you know all this? The same with all our sexual memories, building a picture, thinking about it. All that is part of time and thought. If you ask how it is possible for time and thought, inwardly, to stop, again, that is a wrong question. 58:42 But when one realises the truth of this, not the truth of another, but your own observation of that truth, your own clarity of perception, will that end sorrow? That is, part of sorrow is my loneliness. I may be married, children, responsibilities, belong to a club, play golf, and all the rest of it, if one is lucky. And there, I must record. Recording there is knowledge, I must have knowledge. But that sunrise in the cloudless sky, and the blue, and the shadows, numberless, I am not quoting Keats. What need be there to record that? It is ended.	56:54 所以我们在问：「时间」是否是痛苦的根源？「思想」是否是痛苦的根源？当然是的。所以思想和时间就是我生活的中心。我是依靠它们而活的。当一些事情发生了以后 ——那些令人无比痛苦的事情—— 那我就会返回到那个模式、返回到那些记忆中。然后我流下了泪水。 “当我欣赏这阳光的时候，我多希望他也在这里一起享受它。 ” 你们难道不知道所有这一切吗？对于我们所有的性爱回忆来说也是如此，构建起一个画面，然后想象它。所有这些都是时间和思想的一部分。如果你问：内心的时间和思想又怎么可能停止呢？这同样也是一个错误的问题。 58:42 然而当一个人了悟到这其中的真相 ——不是别人口中的真相，而是你自己观察到了这个真相，你自己清楚地看到了它，那么这是否可以结束痛苦呢？换句话说，这种「苦」的一部分就是我的孤独。我也许已经结婚了，有了孩子与各种责任，是某个俱乐部的成员，会打打高尔夫球，等等这些 ——如果我够幸运的话。在这些领域中，我必须要记录。这些记录就是「知识」，我必须要有知识。然而那次日出 ——那次湛蓝无云天空中的日出，那些阴影、无数的影子我可不是在引用济慈的诗句。在这个领域中，我们需要去记录它吗？在这之中，记录就结束了。
1:00:31 So to find out how to live a life without psychological recording. You understand? To give such tremendous attention. It is only where there is inattention, there is recording. I am used to my brother, to my son, to my wife, to my mother. I know what they will say, they have said so often the same thing. They have repeated, they have scolded – I know them. When I say, I know them, I am inattentive. When I say, I know my wife, obviously, I don't really know her. Because a living thing you cannot possibly know. It is only a dead thing that you can know. That is the dead memory that you know.	1:00:31 所以我们要去发现：如何才能去过一种…… 没有心理上记录的生活。你们理解了吗？要如此全然地关注它。只有当你不注意的时候，才会有记录。我已经习惯了我的兄弟、我的儿子、我的妻子、我的母亲。我知道他们将会说些什么，他们总是说着那些同样的东西。他们重复着那些话语、那些批评责骂 ——我知道他们。而当我说“我知道他们”的时候，我就是「不注意」的。当我说“我知道我的妻子”时，很显然，我其实并不知晓她。因为你是不可能知晓一个活跃变化的事物的。你只能够知晓一个无生命的东西。因此你知晓的其实是那些已死的记忆。
1:01:59 So when one is aware of this with great attention, sorrow has a totally different meaning. There is nothing to learn from sorrow. There is only the ending of sorrow. And when there is an ending of sorrow, then there is love. How can I love another, have the quality of that love when my whole life is based on memories, on that picture which I have hung on the mantelpiece, put on the piano? How can I love when I am caught in a vast structure of memories? So the ending of sorrow is the beginning of love.	1:01:59 所以，当一个人带着全然的「注意」而觉知到这一点，那么「苦」便有了一种完全不同的意义。在「苦」之中并没有可学的东西。存在的只有「苦」的结束。而当「苦」结束了，那时就会有「爱」。我又怎么可能去爱别人、去拥有那种「爱」的品质 ——如果我的整个生活都是建立在记忆、建立在那张我挂在壁炉架上的照片、摆放在钢琴上的照片的话？当我还深陷于记忆的庞大结构中时，我又怎么可能去爱呢？所以「苦难」的终结就是「爱」的开始。
1:03:20 Tomorrow, I think we ought to talk over together the nature of death and meditation. That is enough for this morning.	1:03:20 明天，我想我们应该一起来谈论一下…… 死亡和冥想的本质。今天早上讲到这里就够了吧。我可以再讲一遍那个故事吗？
1:03:44 May I repeat a story? A teacher, a religious teacher had several disciples, and he used to talk to them every morning about the nature of goodness, beauty, love. And one morning, he gets on the rostrum and as he is just about to begin talking, a singing bird alights on the windowsill, and begins to sing, chant. And he sings for a while and disappears. So the teacher says, 'The sermon for this morning is over'.	1:03:44 有一位导师——一位宗教导师他有几个弟子，这位导师以前每天早上都会给弟子们演讲，谈论关于「善」、「美」和「爱」的本质。有一天早上，他登上了讲台，正当他准备开始演讲的时候，一只唱着歌的小鸟落在了窗台上，小鸟开始鸣叫、吟唱。这只小鸟唱了一会儿，然后就消失无影了。然后这位导师开口了，他说：今天早上的讲道已经结束了”。
1:04:46 May I get up, please?	1:04:46 请问我可以起身了吗？

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