Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR82T4 - 死亡之美——死亡是生活的一部分 home
第四次公开演讲
英国,布洛克伍德公园
1982年9月5日


0:57 Krishnamurti: This is the last talk. I suppose you'll be glad, and I'll be glad too. 0:57 克里希那穆提(以下简称“克”): 这是最后一次演讲了。 我猜你们会感到很高兴, 其实我也很高兴。
1:15 I think one should go over briefly what we have been talking about in the last two talks and the two question meetings. We talked about the chaos in the world, the great uncertainty for all of us. Life is becoming more and more dangerous, unpredictable. And the future, from what one observes as things are politically, economically, even socially, is rather grim. One is not pessimistic or optimistic, but these are facts. They are preparing for war. Man, apparently, has not learnt from past history that killing another human being is of no value, doesn't solve any problems. But apparently, that is the fashion, that is the national inheritance and accepted orthodoxy. 3:03 And nobody seems to demonstrate, and there have been a great many demonstrations about nuclear war, about this and that, but nobody, from the highest to the lowest, seems to demonstrate to end all wars. Not a particular kind of war: atomic or conventional war, or other types of war, but one has not given one's energy or the drive or the intensity to stop all wars. Of course, the politicians will never agree to that, nor the gurus, nor the highest Christian authorities. If they did, they wouldn't be the highest authorities. 1:15 我想我们应该 简要地来回顾一下 我们之前 所讲过的内容 ——也就是过去两次演讲、 以及两次问答会中 所讲的东西。 我们谈论了 这个世界的混乱无序、 我们所有人的 巨大的不确定感。 生活正在变得 越来越危险、 越来越无法预测。 至于未来…… 就某人(指克氏自己)所观察到的情况来看, 目前政治的现状、 经济的现状、甚至是社会的现状 都是相当的严峻。 某人并不是 悲观主义或者乐观主义, 这些全都是事实。 人们正在准备着战争。 很显然人类并没有从过往的历史中 学到这一点: 即杀死别人 是没什么用的, 它并不能解决任何问题。 但很显然, 这就是现在的流行风尚, 这就是国家的遗传继承, 和公认的正统观念。 3:03 似乎并没有人 去游行示威, 尽管我们 曾经有过很多 关于核战争、 关于这个或那个事情的示威游行, 然而似乎并没有人 ——从最高阶层的人到最低阶层的人—— 去进行“结束所有战争”的 示威游行。 而不是某种特定的战争: 原子弹战争或者常规战争, 或者其他类型的战争, 我们并没有拿出我们的精力、驱动力、 或者决心 去制止所有的战争。 当然了,那些政治家 将永远不会赞同它, 那些古鲁、 那些基督教的最高权威人士 也不会赞同。 因为如果他们赞同了, 他们就做不了 最高的权威了。
4:10 And also, we talked about the general disorder, outwardly, and the inward disorder that we live with. We talked about hatred spreading throughout the world more and more. And there seems to be no end to that. We talked also about human beings wounded psychologically from childhood, and the consequences of that hurt, the wounds that one receives while being educated in the family. Education, college, university, and the whole process of living seems to breed this kind of inward hurt which breeds isolation, fear, and the kind of neuroticism that seems to be common. 4:10 此外,我们还谈论了 普遍性的混乱, 外在的混乱, 以及我们 内心的混乱。 我们谈到仇恨 正在全世界愈演愈烈。 而且看起来似乎 没有尽头。 我们同样也 谈论了人类 从小开始所受到的 心理上的创伤, 以及这种创伤 所造成的后果, 这些伤害是我们在 家庭的 教育中、 在学院或大学的教育中、 以及在整个生活的过程中所遭受到的。 这些伤害似乎滋生出了 这种内心的创伤, 而这种创伤则滋生出了孤立、恐惧, 以及那种似乎已经 司空见惯的神经质。
5:26 And also, we talked about perhaps the most important thing: relationship. How essential it is to find out for oneself, to live a life in which conflict doesn't exist in relationship: sexual, the individual search for his own fulfilment, pursuing his own ambitions, and therefore, the relationship is never complete. It is always divided, like two parallel lines never meeting, and that is what we call relationship, and therefore in it, there is perpetual conflict. And the cause of that conflict, that lack of deep, fundamental relationship, is this sense of isolation. 6:52 Not only the individual isolation – the very word indicates isolation. But that word too has a different meaning: indivisible, a human being who is not broken up, living at different levels of his life business life, religious life, social life, family life, and so on. Such a human being cannot possibly have deep, abiding, lasting... a relationship in which there is love. We have talked about it quite a lot. 5:26 除此之外,我们还谈论了…… 或许是最重要的东西: 关系。 这是一件多么重要的事: 那就是我们要自己去发现、 去过一种在关系中 没有冲突存在的生活: 无论是性的关系, 还是个体追寻 他自己的成就、 追求他自己的雄心抱负, 由此那种关系 就永远无法完整了。 「关系」将永远都是分裂的, 就像两条永不相交的平行线, 而这就是 我们所谓的“关系”, 因此在这种关系中, 有着连续不断的冲突。 而导致这种冲突的原因, 导致我们缺乏 深刻与根本性关系的原因, 就是那种孤立感。 6:52 不只是「个体」的孤立 ——「个体」这个词本身 就暗示了孤立。 但这个词(个体)还有一种 不同的含义: 那就是「不可分割」, 它指的是一个 没有割裂的人, 而人们却总是生活在 不同的层面, 商业生活、宗教生活、 社会生活、 家庭生活,等等。 而这样的人 是不可能拥有 深刻、持久、永恒的关系、 那种蕴含着 「爱」的关系的。 我们讨论了很多 这方面的内容。
7:50 And also, we have enquired together into the nature of fear, whether it is possible for human beings living in this ugly world to be totally, completely free of all fear. Fear is a terrible thing. It darkens, shortens, it makes one's mind so brittle. And whether it is possible to be free of all fear both psychologically and outwardly. Where there is fear, there cannot be generosity, cannot be that sense of great affection. 7:50 我们还一起探询了 恐惧的本质, 以及人类 是否可能 生活在这个丑陋的世界里, 人类是否可能完全地、彻底地 摆脱掉所有的恐惧。 恐惧是一个很可怕的东西。 它带来了黑暗,削弱了我们, 让我们的心变得如此脆弱。 而我们是否有可能 摆脱掉所有的恐惧 ——既包括内心的恐惧, 也包括外在层面的恐惧。 当有了恐惧, 就不可能会有「慷慨」, 不可能会有那种 无比强烈的情感。
8:51 We also talked about love and compassion and intelligence. We said, that which is love cannot be approached positively, but that which is not can be put aside. Jealousy, ambition, antagonism, competition, deny the very nature and the beauty of love. And we talked also about compassion. There can be no compassion, obviously, if one is anchored in a belief, in a faith, in a dogma, or belonging to some group, some sects. Such a person may have pity, sympathy, generosity, but it is not compassion. Where there is compassion, there is intelligence – we went into that. 10:27 We enquired into what is the nature of a human being that is intelligent. If intelligence is based on knowledge, is the outcome of knowledge, then we have a great deal of knowledge about most things in life. But that knowledge has not transformed us, has not made us intelligent. The very antagonisms, national divisions and racial and religious divisions indicate how unintelligent we are. Somebody should write a history about stupidity. I believe they have. Perhaps in the thirties, somebody wrote a book. But such books are easily forgotten, put aside. 8:51 我们还谈论了爱、 慈悲与智慧。 我们说, 「爱」是无法以肯定性的方式 去接近的, 但我们可以抛弃掉那些 「不是爱」的东西: 嫉妒、 野心、敌意、 竞争, 它们否定了 「爱」的本质与美。 我们也谈论了 「慈悲」。 很显然, 如果一个人 固守于某种信仰、 信念或教条, 或者归属于某个团体、 某个教派,那就不可能会有「慈悲」了。 这个人也许会有 怜悯、同情、 慷慨之情, 但这并非「慈悲」。 当有了「慈悲」, 就会有「智慧」 ——这个我们已经探讨过了。 我们探询了 一个智慧之人 10:27 所具有的 本质。 如果「智慧」是建立在 知识之上的, 如果「智慧」是知识的产物, 那么我们已经拥有了 海量的 关于生活中绝大部分事物的知识。 然而这些知识 并没有转变我们, 并没有让我们变得智慧。 那些对立情绪、 国家的划分, 以及种族和宗教间的分裂, 都表明了我们是多么的愚蠢。 应该有人去写一部关于 人类愚蠢的历史。 我相信已经有人写过了。 可能是在三十年代的时候, 有人写过这样的书。 然而这类书 很容易被遗忘、 被搁置一旁。
11:56 And we talked about, yesterday, the nature of suffering. Why human beings, who apparently have such extraordinary skill, extraordinary capacity in the technological field, have not used that capacity, that energy, that quality of intensity, to wipe away all human suffering both physically and psychologically. Perhaps they will succeed, wiping away physical pain, disease, and so on. But man has lived for millennia upon millennia, and yet he suffers. And we went into that very carefully, and it would not be the occasion again to repeat what was said yesterday morning. 11:56 而我们昨天也谈论了 「苦」的本质。 为什么人类…… ——很显然, 在科学技术领域,人类有着 无比非凡的 技能与能力, 然而他们却没有运用这种能力、 这种能量、 这种高强度的品质 去扫除掉所有人类的痛苦 ——既包括生理上的痛苦、 也包括心理上的痛苦。 也许人类将能够成功地…… 消除掉身体上的痛苦 ——那些疾病 等等。 然而,虽然人类已经 生活了数千年, 但他却还是在受苦。 我们已经非常小心仔细地 探讨过这些了, 所以这里就 不再重复 昨天早上 说过的东西了。
13:17 So we ought to talk over together this morning, and please don't consider it rather morbid or unnecessary on a lovely morning like this, to talk about death. Because it is part of our life as all the other characteristics of our life, like hate, jealousy, violence, and occasional flare of the beauty of love. It is all part of our life. And also, we ought to talk over together, not that you are listening to the speaker, copying his words or his statements or try to understand what he is talking about, but rather, together, investigate these problems and find out the truth of them. 14:38 And so please, we are talking over together. You are sharing, partaking, cooperating, not just listening, and then agreeing or disagreeing and walk off, do your T'ai chi endlessly, or your yoga, or some practice of some guru which he thinks will enlighten you. But we are concerned with our daily life, not some exotic, fanciful, religious concepts, but actual daily life of conflict, the confusion we live in, the uncertainty, the search for security. We have been through all that, it is part of our life. 16:00 And also, death is part of our life though we may not acknowledge that fact. We may try to avoid it, slur over it, or only be concerned at the last minute, as most people are. So we should, together, enquire into the nature, into that extraordinary fact. As life is an extraordinary fact, we ought to consider that also. 13:17 因此今天早上, 我们应该一起来讨论一下它, 请不要把讨论它视为是 相当病态的事情, 或者觉得在一个像今天这样 美好的早晨, 我们没必要去讨论什么「死亡」。 因为「死亡」是我们生活的一部分 ——就像我们生活中 所有其他的特性一样, 比如仇恨、嫉妒、暴力, 以及偶尔闪现的 「爱」的美好。 这些全都是我们生活的一部分。 此外,我们也应该 一起来讨论一下, 不只是 你听演讲者说, 复制他的话语 或他的表述, 或者试图理解 他在谈论的东西, 而是我们要一起去 探究 这些问题, 然后发现它们的真相。 14:38 所以请注意, 我们是在一起讨论。 你们是在分享、 参与、合作, 而不只是听我讲, 对我说的东西表示同意或不同意, 然后就离开了, 去没完没了地打你们的太极拳, 或者练你们的瑜伽、 或者进行某个古鲁的修炼 ——那个古鲁觉得这些修炼 可以让你开悟。 我们所关心的是 我们的日常生活, 不是某种异国情调的、幻想的 宗教概念, 而是真实的、 充满冲突的日常生活, 我们所置身于的混乱困惑、 不确定、 以及对安全感的追寻。 所有这些我们都已经经历过了, 它是我们生活的一部分。 16:00 同样的,「死亡」也是 我们生活的一部分, 尽管我们或许不愿 承认这一事实。 我们也许会试图回避它, 对它含糊其辞, 或者只会在临终时刻 才关注它 ——绝大多数人都是如此。 所以我们应该一起来 探询一下它的本质, 探询一下这个非凡的事实。 就像生命是一个 非凡的事实一样, 我们也应该来 考虑一下死亡。
16:52 And we should consider too, before death and meditation, what is beauty. It is important too. Does beauty lie in the eye of the observer? Is beauty a state of mind that has studied all the paintings, the poets, and the statuary of the world, and come to a certain conclusion? The architecture of the most extraordinary buildings in the world from the deep pyramids to the Parthenon, to the cathedrals, to the temples, and the mosques. 17:55 And when one observes those marvellous trees, the sequoias who have lived 5 to 6000 years, some of them. What is beauty, where is beauty? In the poet? In the poems? In the literature? In the painting? Or when you see a beautiful person, well-formed, beautiful features. What do you consider to be beauty? This is important because love goes with beauty. 16:52 而我们也应该来思考一下 ——在探讨死亡和冥想之前—— 来思考一下:什么是「美」。 它也是很重要的。 「美」存在于 观察者的眼中吗? 「美」是一种头脑状态吗 ——在其中头脑钻研这个世界上 所有的绘画、诗歌、 以及雕像艺术, 然后得出某个 关于「美」的结论? 世界上那些无比惊人建筑物的 建筑艺术设计, 从高深莫测的金字塔 到帕台农神殿, 还有那些大教堂、 寺庙和清真寺。 17:55 而当我们欣赏那些 美妙的大树, 那些水杉……它们中有一些已经存活了 有五千到六千年了。 那么什么是「美」呢? 「美」在哪里呢? 「美」存在于诗人中吗 ……「美」存在于诗歌中吗? 存在于文学作品中吗? 存在于绘画作品中吗? 还是说你看到了一个 很美的人 ——他(她)身材匀称、容貌姣好。 你认为什么才算是「美」呢? 这一点很重要, 因为「爱」与「美」是如影随形的。
18:52 So one must enquire into this nature of what is beautiful. When do you perceive beauty? You see a marvellous mountain with deep valleys and shadows against the blue sky, with all the light of heaven upon it. And for a moment, you are struck by this grandeur, by the greatness of that enormous, solid rock. And for a second, you are absent, you have forgotten your problems, your petty quarrels, and all the rest of it, and you are facing this tremendous beauty. Does beauty exist only when the self is not? Please do ask these questions of yourself. The self, the me, the person, the name, the form, all those words of fear, violence and problems and deep loneliness with its despairs, that is the self, the me, striving, striving to become something. 20:50 When that self is absent completely, it is that state of mind, being, perceives beauty. As you do, when you see a great monument, great mountains. For a second, the self is driven away by an accident, by a crisis. Then perhaps, one sees that which is beautiful. It happens to all of us. This is nothing extraordinary. When you see a lovely sunset, indescribable light: golden, orange, green, and for a second, everything is forgotten and there is this startling clarity of beauty, of light. At that moment, the self is not. 18:52 所以我们必须探询一下 「美的事物」的本质是什么。 什么时候你会看到美? 你看到了一座雄伟壮丽的高山, 它有着深邃的山谷与阴影, 映衬在蓝天之下, 天空中所有的光亮 都笼罩着它。 在那一瞬间,你被这壮丽的景象 深深震撼了, 被这些巨大的、坚固无比的岩石的雄伟 所震撼了。 在那一刻, “你”不复存在了, 你忘却了 你的各种问题、 你那些琐碎的争吵, 等等这些东西, 那时你所面对的 便是这种巨大的「美」。 是不是只有当「自我」不在的时候, 「美」才会存在? 请务必问问你自己 这些问题。 那个自我、那个“我”、 那个人、那个名字、那个模样, 所有那些充满恐惧的话语, 暴力、各种问题、 深深的孤独感 及其绝望 ——这些就是「自我」、就是「我」, 不停奋斗、 努力去变成某号人物。 20:50 而当这个「自我」 不复存在了, 那么这种心灵状态、这种「存在」, 它便能看到「美」了。 就像当你看到一座 巨大的纪念碑、 看到雄伟壮丽的高山时那样。 在那一刻, 「自我」被…… 这个偶然事件、被这个关键时刻所驱逐了。 而那时,我们或许就可以 看到那个美的事物了。 这样的事情在我们所有人身上都发生过。 这并不是什么很奇特的事情。 当你看到了一次美好的日落, 那难以言表的落日余晖: 金色的、橙色的、绿色的, 在那一瞬间, 你忘却了一切事物, 那时便会有那种 惊人澄澈的「美」 和光芒了。 在那一刻,「自我」不存在了。
22:16 Now, can one live that way? Not be absorbed by something enormous something majestic, like a toy with a child. – child with a toy, rather. The child is absorbed in the toy and forgotten all his eager mischief. For the moment the toy has taken him over until he breaks that toy. So he depends on that toy to make him forget. And we depend on some toy also, grown up people: the toy of a symbol, the toy of a word, the toy of a mantra. The word 'mantra' I believe in Sanskrit means meditate or think over, not becoming, and absolve all self-centred activity. that is the root meaning of that word. And what we have made of it. 22:16 那么,我们可以这样子生活吗? 不是沉浸在 某种宏大的事物、 某种雄伟壮丽的事物中, 就像孩子之于玩具一样 ——更确切地说是 玩具之于孩子一样。 孩子会全神贯注于那个玩具, 而忘掉所有 他想要搞的恶作剧。 那个玩具暂时 把他给迷住了…… ——直到他把那个玩具玩坏了为止。 所以孩子会依赖于那个玩具…… 来使他忘掉一切。 而我们也会依赖于某些“玩具” ——我们这些成年人: 象征符号的“玩具”, 文字词语的“玩具”, 曼陀罗的“玩具”。 “曼陀罗(mantra)”这个词…… ——我相信它在梵文中的意思是 冥想或者细想, 不要去“成为什么什么……”, 然后解除所有 自我中心的活动。 这就是「曼陀罗」这个词的 词根意思。 可我们却已经把它变成什么玩意儿了。
24:17 So is it possible to live a life without causation? Please enquire together into this. Our life, our whole existence has a cause. I do this because. I love you because. I worship because I am afraid that my life is empty, and perhaps some outside agency will help. There is always a cause in our life. And where there is a cause, there is an ending. If I love because you offer me sex, pleasure, companionship, because it has a cause, that kind of relationship soon ends. 25:39 But to live a life without any causation is to live a life that is measureless. Because such a life has no ending. It isn't my life that I am ending. Those people who have a cause will always find an end. Perhaps that may be immortality, not my immortality or yours, but to live a life that has no beginning, which is a cause, and therefore it has no end. If one sees the beauty of that then life has a totally different meaning. Please, as we said, we are talking over together. 27:00 It is not the speaker is stimulating you, then the speaker becomes a drug, then you depend, and all the mischief begins. But if we are together enquiring into this, probing very, very carefully, sceptically, with a great deal of doubt of everything you have examined because that may not be complete examination. Doubt, scepticism are great factors in life. 24:17 所以,我们是否可能去过一种 没有起因动机的生活? 请你们一起去 探询一下它。 我们的生活、我们全部的「存在」 都是有一个「起因」的。 我做这件事是因为…… 我爱你是因为 我去崇拜是因为 我害怕我的生活变得空虚、 所以也许某个外在的媒介 可以来帮助我。 在我们的生活中, 总是会有一个起因动机。 而当有了一个「起因」, 便会有一个「结束」。 如果我爱你,是因为你给了我 性爱、快乐、陪伴, 那么由于它是有一个起因动机的, 这种关系便很快就会走到尽头。 25:39 而去过一种 没有任何起因的生活, 就是去过一种 「没有度量」的生活。 因为这样的生活 才是没有终点的。 它并不是那种 我正在将其结束的“我的生活”。 那些拥有一个起因动机的人 将总是会遭遇「终结」。 或许这就是「永恒不朽」, 它不是我的「永恒不朽」或者你的「永恒不朽」, 而是去过一种 没有「起始」的生活 ——「起始」就是起因, 由此这样的生活便不会有「终结」。 如果你能看到这其中的「美」, 那么生活就会具有一种 完全不同的意义了。 请注意,就如我们说过的, 我们是在一起讨论它。 27:00 而不是演讲者在 煽动刺激你们, 那样的话演讲者就变成了毒品, 然后你们就会依赖于我, 于是所有的麻烦就开始了。 但如果我们是在 一起探询它, 非常非常小心地、 带着质疑、 带着强烈的怀疑态度去探究它 ——去怀疑你所检视的一切事物, 因为你的检视可能不是 完整完全的。 而质疑和怀疑态度 是人生中极为重要的东西。
27:43 And so we should, together, go into this question of death. What is it that dies? And what is it that lives? Both of them go together. When you use the word death, dying, it means that you have also lived. The two cannot be separated. That is a basic truth – that it cannot be separated, as you cannot possibly separate relationship as though by itself, like a hurt, like a wound, like a fear. They are all interrelated, there is no 'one' problem. One problem, if it is properly understood psychologically, then in that problem all problems are included. But if you separate, and say, this is one problem I must solve, then you are reducing life into a shoddy little affair. 29:13 But if one examines one problem completely, and to understand the nature of that completeness, one must understand how one approaches a problem. So, we must be very clear, that life and death go together. They are not something in the distant. When one is young, full of life, enjoyment, and a great deal of energy, one doesn't ever think about the other end. As one grows a little bit older, watches one's son die, then you begin to question, then you begin to shed tears, and the anxieties of life. Death is there for all of us. 27:43 所以我们应该一起来探讨一下 这个关于「死亡」的问题。 是什么东西死了呢? 又是什么东西在生活呢? 这两者是如影随形的。 当你使用了诸如 “死亡”、“垂死”这样的词, 它意味着 你也曾“活过” 这两者是不可能被分开的。 这是一个很基本的事实真相 ——那就是它们是不可能被分开的, 就像你不可能 把「关系」割裂开来, 仿佛它能独立存在似的 ——就好比伤害、 创伤、恐惧一样。 它们全都是相互关联的, 并不存在“某一个问题”这种东西。 当你在内心正确地理解了 一个问题以后, 那么在这个问题中, 其实就已经囊括了所有的问题。 但如果你把它割裂开来, 然后说: 我必须要解决这个问题, 那你就把生活贬低为了一件 浅薄琐碎的事情。 29:13 但如果你能全面完整地 去检视一个问题, 要理解 它全部内容的本质, 你就必须明白自己该如何去 面对处理一个问题。 所以我们必须非常清楚这一点: 生活和死亡是如影随形的。 它们并不是某种 很遥远的东西。 当一个人年轻的时候, 他充满了活力与快乐, 有着使不完的劲儿, 他从来不会去想 “另一个世界”的问题。 而当你年纪稍微大了点之后, 目睹自己的儿子死去了, 那时你才会开始去质疑, 那时你才会开始流下眼泪, 感受到生活中的种种焦虑。 「死亡」就在那里,等待着我们所有的人。
30:32 So what is it to die? And so what is it to live? One cannot ask what it is to die without asking what it is to live. If we don't understand the living then we will be frightened of the other, naturally. But if we understand the nature of living then we will comprehend also, deeply, the nature of dying. Not what happens after death, but rather, what happens before one dies. That is far more important, to find out what happens before dying rather than what happens after. Volumes have been written of what happens after. And we are all eagerly searching, or waiting, or rationalizing what happens after, but we never look at what happens before. 32:01 So we are going together to look at what happens before. What happens to all of us before? The thing called living, the thing called becoming: the struggles, the pains, the anxieties, the loneliness, the deep, endless sorrow, working from morning until night until we are sixty, and then retire to die. This is what we call living. And we are questioning whether that is living at all. Please, you must question this, not I, not the speaker, but each one of us must question. Question, not find an answer. It is a challenge, and we must know how to meet a challenge. 33:20 This is a challenge. What is our life, the living? The acquisition of money? Search for power? Sexual fulfilment? The striving, the conflict, the fears, the anxieties, the loneliness, and the deepening sorrows? Is that our life? It is our life. It is everlastingly becoming something. That is why you all belong – not all, some of you – belong to some group, hoping to become something, to become illumined, to become rich. So the becoming has a cause. And if you don't become in a certain direction, you go to the other, and keep this strain of becoming all the time. 34:54 that is our daily life: in the business world, in the political world, in the religious world. Think of it, absurd: in the religious world. The priest becoming the bishop, the bishop becoming the cardinal, and the cardinal eventually became the top dog. No, please don't laugh. See the fact, see the extraordinary cruelty of it all. And this is what we call living. And of course, then we are frightened of death. 30:32 所以,是什么东西死了呢? 又是什么东西在生活呢? 不问是什么东西在生活, 你就无法问:是什么东西死了。 如果我们 不了解生活, 那么我们就会害怕 与之对立的另一个事物 ——这也是很自然的事。 但如果我们了解了 生活的本质, 那么我们也将会 深刻地理解死亡的实质了。 不是死了以后会发生什么, 而是:在我们死去之前 会发生什么。 这一点远远更为重要: 那就是去搞清楚死亡之前所发生的事情, 而不是死后所发生的事情。 已经有很多书描写了 死后的事情。 而我们全都在急切地寻找 或等待着死后的经历, 或者将其 合理化, 然而我们却从未去看看 死之前所发生的事情。 32:01 所以我们将要一起来看看 死亡之前都发生了些什么。 对于我们所有人来说, 死亡之前都发生了些什么呢? (发生的是)那个被称为“生活”的东西, 那个被称为“变成某号人物”的东西: 努力奋斗、各种痛苦、 各种焦虑、孤独、 永无止境的、深重的苦难, 从早到晚地工作 一直干到我们六十岁为止, 然后退休,等死。 这就是我们所谓的“生活”。 而我们正在质疑 它究竟算不算是「生活」。 拜托了,你们必须去质疑它。 不是我、 不是演讲者去质疑, 而是我们每个人 都必须去质疑它。 去提出疑问,但不要寻找一个答案。 它是一个挑战, 而我们必须知道 如何去应对一个挑战。 33:20 这是一个挑战。 我们的人生是什么?我们的生活是什么? 获取金钱吗? 寻求权力吗? 满足性欲吗? 去努力奋斗, 经历各种冲突、 恐惧、 焦虑、孤独、 以及越来越深重的苦难? 这是否就是我们的生活? 这 就是 我们的生活。 不停地去追求 变成某号人物。 这就是为什么你们全都属于…… ——不是你们所有人,而是你们中的一些人—— 你们会归属于某个团体, 希望由此能够变成某号人物、 变成开悟之人、 变成有钱人。 所以,「变成」是有一个「起因动机」的。 如果你没有在这个赛道 去变成什么, 你就会换到另一个赛道, 但始终都会保持着这种 源于「变成」的紧张压力。 34:54 这就是我们的日常生活: 商业世界中的生活、 政治世界中的生活、 宗教世界中的生活。 想想它是多么荒谬吧: 在宗教世界中 牧师努力变成主教, 主教努力变成红衣主教, 而红衣主教 最终变成了老大。 不,请不要笑。 请看到这个事实, 看到这一切所暗藏的 极度的残忍不公。 而这就是我们所谓的“生活”。 毫无疑问,这样的话 我们便会害怕死亡了。
35:51 So we are going to find out, if we can, whether in this living, whether it is possible to be free, completely, of all the burdens of man. That is what we have been discussing for the last sixty years or so, whether it is possible to be free totally from all fear, from all the wounds that man has given to man, the agonies, the loneliness, the utter separation of existence, whether we are individuals at all. Because our consciousness, with all the things that thought has put there, like fear, faith, and so on, is the common lot of all mankind. 37:10 Our consciousness, though we think it is ours – individual consciousness – it is not when you examine it very closely. It is the common lot, common ground of all human beings. So one questions whether there is individuality at all. Though on the peripheral, on the outward existence you may be better educated, more money, better fed, better clothes, more power, but inwardly, we are all the same. You may belong to one sect, or one group, one commune, call yourself, or robe yourself differently, but inwardly, inside the skin, psychologically, you are humanity. 38:29 And so you are basically not an individual, that is one of our illusions. We think, we also say, 'thinking is my thinking'. Thinking is never personal, individual. Thinking is common to all mankind from the great philosophers to the mathematicians, to the scientists, and to the poor ignorant man never knowing how to read or write, or travel. Thinking is, again, common to all of us. So thinking is neither East nor West, that is our life. 35:51 所以我们将会去发现 ——如果我们可以的话—— 去发现在这种生活中, 是否可能获得解脱 ——完全彻底地摆脱掉 所有人类的重负。 这就是我们在过去 大约六十年的时间里 一直在讨论的东西: 即我们是否可能彻底摆脱掉 所有的恐惧、 摆脱掉所有 人与人之间的伤害、 摆脱掉痛苦折磨、孤独寂寞、 和自身「存在」的彻底的孤立性, 我们究竟是不是 “个体”? 因为我们的意识, 及其所有 思想所加诸于它的东西, 比如恐惧、信念,等等, 它们是全人类 共同的命运。 37:10 我们的意识, 尽管我们认为它是属于我们自己的 ——是我的“个体意识”—— 然而当你非常严密仔细地检视它, 你会发现它并不是。 它是全人类的共同命运, 是全人类共同的基础。 所以某人(指克氏自己)在质疑 究竟是否存在“个体性”。 尽管从外围来看、 从外在的层面来看, 你也许受过更好的教育, 拥有更多的金钱, 吃得更好、穿得更好, 拥有更大的权力, 然而从内在角度来看,我们全都是一样的。 你也许属于某个教派、 某个团体、某个社群, 你们各自对自己有不同的称呼、 会穿上不同的长袍, 然而从内心来说, 从内在来看、 从心理上讲, 你们都是「人」。 38:29 所以从根本上说, 你并不是一个“个体” ——“个体”是我们的错觉之一。 但我们会认为、我们仍然会说, “这是我的思考”。 但「思考」从来就不是 属于个人的、个体的。 「思考」是全人类 所共有的东西 ——从伟大的哲学家 到数学家、 到科学家、 再到可怜的无知之人 ——那些从来不知道如何读书写字, 或者从来没有旅行过的人。 所以「思考」同样也是 我们所有人共同拥有的东西。 所以「思考」既不属于东方世界、 也不属于西方世界, 这就是我们的生活。
39:37 When there is no freedom from this kind of travail and agony and occasional sense of beauty, then what is death? Why are you frightened? Why are we all so scared? The Hindus, the ancient Hindus, have invented a theory that you will live after: carry on with your misery this life. Next life, if you behave properly, it will be better. You will have more money, better houses, better clothes and you will have better power, or you will be a great saint. And the Christians too have their own rationalization: resurrection, etc. 40:43 Those who believe in reincarnation, that is, to incarnate next life. What is it that incarnates next life? Go into it, don't accept the tradition. Go into it – what is it that incarnates next life? Your thoughts? Your loneliness? Your striving? Your utter confusion and sorrow? And is sorrow, anxiety, loneliness and agony to be dispelled through time, which is evolution? We like to think so. We like to think, violence will end, give me time. While you have time, you sow the further seeds of violence, obviously. 42:01 So those who believe in this theory, though some of them say, 'Oh no, it is very actual'. Maybe. One has to be very careful of all these beliefs. It isn't one belief that is going to solve all the problems. If you believe in that, that means you must live now a righteous life, a good life, an intelligent life, a life of love and compassion. But you don't, that is just a theory to comfort you at the last minute. 39:37 当我们无法摆脱掉 这种 艰辛与苦难, 虽然偶尔也会有「美」的感觉, 那么,什么是「死亡」呢? 为什么你会害怕? 为什么我们都如此的担惊受怕? 印度人——那些古代的印度人—— 他们发明出了一种理论: 那就是你死后仍将会继续存活: 你会携带着 你这一生的苦难。 而下辈子, 如果你行为正确得体, 你下辈子就会过得更好。 你将会拥有更多的金钱、 更好的房子、更好的衣服, 更大的权力, 或者你将会成为一个伟大的圣人。 而基督教徒们也有他们自己 (对死亡的)合理化: 「复活」的理论,等等。 40:43 那些相信 “轮回转世”的人, 换句话说就是下辈子继续投胎做人。 那么下辈子投胎的那个东西 是什么呢? 去探究一下它, 不要接受传统的说法。 去研究一下它 ——是什么东西投胎到了下辈子? 是不是你的思想? 是不是你的孤独? 是不是你的努力奋斗? 是不是你彻底的 困惑和痛苦? 然而痛苦、 焦虑、孤独和苦难, 它们可以通过「时间」来扫除吗 ——也就是可以通过“进化”来扫除吗? 我们喜欢这种想法。 我们倾向于认为暴力终将停止 ——你给我时间就行。 然而当你有了时间以后, 你只是撒播下了更多暴力的种子 ——这是显而易见的。 42:01 所以那些 相信这种理论的人, 尽管他们中的一些人会说, “哦,不,它是千真万确的”。 它也许是真的。 但我们必须要对所有这些信仰 非常的小心。 并不是一个信仰 就可以解决所有问题的。 如果你相信这个东西, 这意味着你现在就必须去过一种 正直的生活、 一种善的生活、一种智慧的生活、 一种充满爱与慈悲的生活。 但你并没有这样做, 它只是一种理论 ——在临终时刻安慰一下你而已。
42:54 So what is it that dies? Please answer this question to yourselves. Not what the books say, not what your tradition says because that just may be another form of illusion. It doesn't matter who says it – the Buddha or anybody who says it, Shankara, according to the ancient Hindus. They may be deceived, and human beings are deceived very, very easily because the root of it is they all want comfort. 42:54 所以,是什么东西死了呢? 请你们自己来回答一下 这个问题。 不是依照书本上的说法, 不是依照你们传统的说法, 因为那也许只是 另一种形式的错觉。 是谁说的并不重要 ——不管是佛陀说的、 还是任何其他人说的, 商羯罗说的 ——根据古代印度教徒的观点。 人们可能都被骗了, 人类是非常非常容易 受骗上当的, 其根本原因就是 人们都想要获得安慰。
43:43 So, what is it that dies? Obviously, your attachments, your bank account, though you may like to have it until the last minute. It is your bank account, your belief, your loneliness, your relationship, intimate and otherwise – all that dies. Just see what happens – that is what is dying. You have collected a great deal of art treasure, wealth, good houses, your character – cultivated this and that. Not only the garden, but you cultivated your own mind, your own heart. 44:56 At the end of it all, death is there. That is, all these qualities are you. You may call it the soul, the Hindus give it a different name, but it is that centre of the self: the name, the form, the qualities, the wounds, the hurts – all that is me. And through disease, old age, or accident, all that is cut off, and that is death. So we have separated living and death is somewhere far around the corner. 43:43 所以,是什么东西死了呢? 很显然,是你的各种执著依恋、 你的银行账户 ——尽管你也许想要一直拥有它 直到你快挂了为止。 因为它是你的银行账户、 你的信仰、 你的孤独、 你的关系——不管是亲密关系 还是其他什么关系, 所有这些东西全都消亡了。 请看到发生的事情 ——死亡的就是这些东西。 你收集了 大量的艺术品、 财富、豪宅、 还有你的品格 ——你培养了这样或那样的品格。 你不仅仅只是培育花园, 你也培养了你自己的头脑、 你自己的心灵。 44:56 然而在所有这一切的终点处, 死亡就在那里。 换句话说, 所有这些品质就是你。 你也许会把它称为“灵魂”, 印度人则会给它一个 不同的名字, 但它就是那个 自我的中心: 你的名字、 你的模样、你的品格、 你的创伤、你的伤害 ——所有这些就是“我”。 而由于疾病、 衰老或者事故, 所有这一切都被切断了, 而这就是「死亡」。 所以我们已经把「生活」分离出来了, 而「死亡」则是存在于 某个遥远角落里的东西。
46:04 Now, the next question to that is, can death take place while living? Please understand what we mean. I am attached to my family, to my wife, to my house, to the beautiful furniture I just bought the other day – I haven't bought it, but... and I am attached to all that. Death is the ending of that. Now can I, living in this life with all my vitality, end the attachment which is death? You understand? Are you following all this? I am attached to my wife, or to my children, more to my bank account, and death wipes all that away. 47:22 While living, with my clear mind, however clear it is, with my vitality, end that attachment. So I am living with death all the time. Do you understand the beauty of it? Do you understand? That is, ending that which, psychologically, I have accumulated. Therefore, the living and the dying go together. Do you understand what it means? Would it be possible to do this? Have you ever tried, if one may ask most respectfully, have you ever tried to end something without any cause? 48:32 Ordinary things: smoking, drinking, chattering. End following somebody: your leader, your guru, your priest, your specialist. Specialist, psychologically, we are not talking of the specialist, physical specialist, like the doctors, and so on. Have you voluntarily, without any cause, ended something? You may dislike somebody, hate somebody. End it. That is death. So one begins to understand, if one goes into it very deeply, that death is not something at the end of one's life, however brief, however long, but death is a movement of life. 49:56 Death is closely related to life. And so where there is an ending, complete ending, without causation then there is a beginning without end. That is immortality. That is a state of timelessness. But if I am frightened of death, which is, frightened of losing. To end that fear, lose now. You understand? In that, there is great beauty. 46:04 而现在, 下一个与之相关的问题就是: 「死亡」 能够在生活的时候发生吗? 请理解我们想要表达的含义。 我执著于我的家庭、 我的妻子、 我的房子, 执著于那件 我前几天刚买的漂亮家具 ——我并没有买什么家具,只是打个比方…… 我会执著于所有这些东西。 然而死亡会终结它们。 那么现在,我是否能够 用我全部的生命活力 去生活, 并结束「执著」呢 ——结束执著就是「死亡」? 你们理解了吗? 你们跟上所有这些了吗? 我执著于我的妻子、 或者我的孩子, 我更执著于我的银行账户, 然而死亡却将这一切给抹除掉了。 47:22 而我要在活着的时候, 带着我清晰的头脑 ——不管它清晰到何种程度, 带着我的生命活力, 去结束掉那种「执著」。 这样的话,我就是一直 和死亡生活在一起了。 你们能理解 这其中的「美」吗? 你们能理解吗? 换句话说,去结束掉 我在心理上所积累起来的东西。 由此,「生活」与「死亡」 便是如影随形的。 你们明白 这意味着什么吗? 我们是否可能这样去做? 你是否曾经尝试过…… ——如果某人可以非常恭敬地问一下的话—— 你是否曾经尝试过 毫无理由地去结束掉某个东西? 48:32 结束掉那些平常的事情: 抽烟、喝酒、 唠叨。 停止去追随某人: 你的领袖、你的古鲁、 你的牧师、你所相信的专家。 那些心理上的专家, 我们这里说的专家并不是…… 外在物质领域的专家 ——比如医生,等等。 你是否主动自愿地、 没有任何缘由地去结束掉某个事物? 你也许不喜欢某个人、 厌恶某个人。 那就停止这种厌恶。 这就是「死亡」。 所以你会开始明白 ——如果你非常深入地探究了它—— 那就是「死亡」并不是某种 我们人生终点处的事物 ——不管我们的人生是短暂还是漫长, 「死亡」是一种生活的运动。 49:56 「死亡」和生活是息息相关的。 因此,当有了「结束」, 没有任何缘由的、 彻底的「终结」, 那时便会有一个 没有终点的「开始」。 而那就是「永恒不朽」。 那便是一种「超越时间」的状态。 如果我害怕死亡 ——也就是害怕「失去」。 那就去结束这种恐惧, 现在就「失去」吧。 你们理解了吗? 在这之中就有着巨大的「美」。 所以我们接下来 应该来谈一下
50:50 So we ought to talk about next... We haven't finished the subject of death because it is much too complicated. One has to go into it very, very deeply. That is, what happens to all of us whose consciousness is common to all mankind, what happens to the one who is out of that consciousness? What relationship has that person to the rest of mankind? I won't go into it now because we haven't got time. As I said, death, with all its meaning, is very complex, needs very careful observation. You cannot observe when there is fear. It requires great hesitancy, affection, seeing what life and death are. 50:50 我们还没有讲完 「死亡」这个主题, 因为它实在 太复杂了。 我们必须要无比深入地 去探究它才行。 换句话说, 我们所有人将会发生什么呢 我们的意识 是全人类所共有的, 那么一个跳出了这种意识的人 会发生什么呢? 那时这个人和其余的人的关系 是怎样的? 我现在就不展开讲了, 因为我们没有时间了。 就如我所说的, 死亡及其所有的意义 是非常复杂的, 它需要非常小心仔细的观察。 当你有恐惧的时候, 你是无法去观察的。 它需要 极大的犹豫迟疑和情感, 由此才能去看清什么是生活、什么是死亡。
52:03 Now we ought to talk about also, as this is the last meeting, what is meditation? In relation to that, we ought to talk over together, what is religion? Go to the smallest Indian village: poor, hungry, probably one meal, and that meal is not sufficient. And they have also the feeling of religiosity: they worship a tree, a stone. And you come to a more complicated, sophisticated society, it is the same movement. They may put a garland around a stone with great reverence. In a sophisticated society, it is much more polished. 53:30 There you have got marvellous cathedrals, churches, painted windows, solemnity, chanting, candles, the strange dress. That also creates a great atmosphere. If you have been to some of the old cathedrals where cardinals are performing, it is really an extraordinarily beautiful thing. It may be nonsense, all the words, and all the things that go on, it may all be ridiculous. But the atmosphere, the beauty of those vast pillars reaching up to the heavens, that is the same quality, only polished, clean, healthy – two thousand years of repetition. 54:45 It is the same as the man or the woman in the village who puts a garland, a flower in front of a stone – both are so-called religious. Don't call the other a heathen, an ignorant man, he is doing exactly the same thing as you are: worshipping something outside, something, an agency, a god, with all the paraphernalia of religious orthodoxy. So what is religion? This is necessary to understand before we go into the question of meditation. 52:03 而现在,由于这是最后一次集会了, 所以我们也应该来讨论一下…… 什么是「冥想」? 而与之相关联的…… 我们也应该一起来探讨一下…… 什么是「宗教」? 当你前往印度那些 最小的村庄: 那里的人们贫穷、饥饿, 一天可能只吃一顿饭 ——而这顿饭也是分量不足的。 但他们也会有那种 宗教的虔诚感: 他们会去崇拜一棵大树、一块石头。 而当你来到一个 更加复杂的、精致的社会, 这里也会有同样的活动。 村民们可能是无比崇敬地 将花环套在一块石头上。 而在一个复杂精致的社会里, 这件事会变得更加优美亮丽。 53:30 在那里,你会看到宏伟的大教堂 和各种小教堂, 彩绘的窗户,庄严肃穆, 吟唱、蜡烛、 奇装异服。 这些东西同样也创造出了一种 很棒的氛围。 如果你曾经去过一些 比较古老的大教堂, 你会看到红衣主教在那里履行仪式, 那真的是一个 无比美妙的情景。 它也许是毫无意义的, 所有那些祷文、 所有那些进行着的事情, 它们或许全都是荒谬的。 但那种氛围, 那些高耸入云的 巨大石柱的美, 它的性质是一样的, 只不过它比较精致优美、干净和健康罢了 ——这样的事情 已经重复了两千年了。 54:45 他们和那个村庄里的男男女女 是一样的 ——那里的人会将花环、鲜花 放在一块石头前—— 但这两者都被称为“宗教性的”。 所以不要把别人称为是“异教徒” 或者无知之人, 因为他在做的事情 和你是完全一样的: 崇拜某个外在的事物: 某个媒介、某个神明, 用所有那些正统宗教的用具 去崇拜。 所以,什么是宗教呢? 我们必需先了解它, 然后才能去探究 关于「冥想」的问题。
56:00 Is all that is going on in the name of religion: the Judaic, the Arabic, the Islamic world, their brutality, their whippings, you know what is happening there. And all the vast superstitions of India with their 300,000 gods, or more. You can invent as many gods as you like, that is more fun than having one god. But all gods are invented, as are all the rituals. But the longing, the feeling that there must be something beyond all this, beyond all the human suffering, beyond all the human sorrow, work, labour, all the materialistic world with their marvellous technology. 57:17 There must be something beyond all this, otherwise life has very little meaning as it is now. So man invents. My life is empty, shallow, meaningless, and I must have something more. So he invents gods. And gods are invented. God hasn't created us. If he has, he must be a rather crummy God because he's made our life into such appalling misery: hate, etc. So we have made God after our image, which is the opposite of what we are: kind, benevolent, all-knowing, protecting, great comforter, and so on. 58:30 Is all that religion? Man has always searched for something sacred. You may not believe in anything sacred, that is your affair. But there are many, millions and millions, including oneself, if one is serious, one asks, is there something sacred, imperishable, not measurable? And to come upon that, meditation is necessary. So we must ask, what is meditation? 56:00 宗教是所有那些 以宗教之名而进行着的事情吗: 在犹太人的世界、 阿拉伯世界和伊斯兰教的世界, 他们的野蛮暴行, 他们的鞭刑, 你们都知道 那里正在发生的事情。 以及印度所有那些 巨大的迷信, 还有他们那多达三十万个 甚至更多的神明。 你可以随心所欲地创造出无数神明 ——想要多少就有多少, 这可比只有一个上帝 有趣多了。 然而所有那些神明都是他们发明出来的 ——就像所有的宗教仪式一样。 然而我们所渴望的是 我们的感受是:一定存在着 某种超越这一切的事物, 它超越了所有人类的痛苦, 超越了所有人类的苦难、 工作、劳动, 超越了整个物质世界 及其卓越惊人的科技。 57:17 一定存在着某种 超越所有这一切的东西, 否则的话,生活就没有什么意义了 ——就像我们现在的生活一样。 所以是人类发明了他们。 我的生活是空虚的、 肤浅的、毫无意义的, 所以我必须要有某种超越这个范畴的东西。 于是人便发明了各种神明。 神明都是人们发明出来的东西。 “上帝”并没有创造出我们。 如果是上帝创造了我们, 那他一定是一个相当差劲的上帝, 因为他让我们的生活 陷入于如此可怕的苦难中: 那些仇恨,等等。 所以我们已经依照自己的意象 而创造出了上帝, 这个上帝就是 我们自己模样的反面: 他友善、仁慈、无所不知、 给予我们保护 和极大的安慰,等等。 58:30 所有这些就是「宗教」吗? 人们总是在寻找某种 神圣之物。 你也许不相信任何 神圣的东西…… ——那是你自己的事儿。 但是有很多很多人, 有数以百万计的人, 也包括我自己, 如果一个人是很认真的话, 那他就会问: 是否存在着某种「神圣之物」、 某种不灭的、不可度量的事物? 而要探究这个问题, 冥想是必不可少的。 所以我们必须要问一下: 什么是「冥想」?
59:31 To find out what meditation is, the beauty of it – not the word. The word means, to ponder over. The meaning of that word: to ponder, to think, to recollect. So to find out what is meditation, we must approach it negatively. That is, to find out what it is not. You understand? Most of us are so positive, and we think meditation is something that we have to do, practice. But if we can approach it with intelligence, not with a desire, but with intelligence, which is to see what it is not. So shall we do it together? What it is not. 59:31 要发现什么是「冥想」, 去发现冥想之美——而不只是文字描述。 「冥想」这个词的意思是“去沉思”。 这个词的含义就是: 去沉思、去思考、 去静心反省。 所以要去搞清楚 什么是冥想, 我们就必须以「否定性」的方式 来处理它。 也就是说, 去发现那些“不是冥想”的东西。 你们能理解吗? 我们大多数人都是如此喜欢「肯定性」的方式, 我认为冥想就是: 我们必须去做的某件事情、 某种练习。 但如果我们可以带着智慧 去处理这个问题, 不是带着渴望, 而是带着智慧, 也就是去看到“什么不是冥想”。 所以,我们可以一起来这样做吗? 什么不是冥想呢?
1:01:08 First of all, it is not a system. If you practice a system, your brain becomes more mechanical than it is. Right? It is so obvious. If I practise some Tibetan, Zen, or recent money-makers of meditation, then this repetition, whether it is twenty minutes in the afternoon, or morning, afternoon, evening, repeating mantras... Knowing the meaning of that word, if you knew the meaning of that word, you would never repeat the mantra. It is so ridiculous. So any practice is like practising a wrong note on the piano. You may practice, practice, practice. 1:02:20 So please go into this. The Eastern world has brought this unfortunate word here. So meditation is not practising a method. It is so obvious. Whether it is the Zen, which is extraordinarily put together. From ancient India it went to China, from China to Japan. They couldn't pronounce a certain Sanskrit word: dhyana, which became... so on and so on. Nor is it a becoming. Meditation is not a becoming. That means meditation is not a process of time. Is this clear? That is, according to all the people who have advocated meditation, it is a process of achievement. 1:04:00 I am here, I am building, layer by layer, brick by brick, day after day, until I am illumined – whatever that may mean. So it is a practice, a becoming, in time. See the implications of this. We are talking over together, you are not accepting what the speaker is saying. See what is involved in this: that illumination is a matter of time. Is it? You might say the Buddha went through all kinds of trials, sat under a tree, and suddenly got illumined – which I question. Illumination is not a matter of time, which means, gradually becoming something, gradually putting away all the miseries of one's life, step by step like you peel an onion, shedding tears one after the other. 1:05:36 See what that means, this constant, conscious effort to achieve a result. The result being that which has been promised, that which has something totally different from my daily, miserable life. I will, in spite of all the misery, I will work for that. It is like building a house on sand. And this is called meditation. 1:01:08 首先, 冥想并不是一种修炼体系。 如果你去修炼某个体系, 你的大脑就会变得 比现在更加机械化了。 对吧? 这是显而易见的。 如果我去修炼某种来自西藏的体系、修炼禅宗, 或者最近流行的那些 以赚钱为目的的冥想, 那么,这种重复 ——不管它是花上二十分钟 在下午进行练习, 还是在早上、午后、晚间 重复曼陀罗 你要明白 这个词的含义, 如果你知道了 这个词的意思, 你就永远不会去 重复曼陀罗了。 因为这实在太荒谬可笑了。 所以任何修炼就像是 你在钢琴上练习弹奏错误的音符。 你也许可以去练习、练习再练习, 可是…… 所以,请你们去深思一下它。 1:02:20 东方世界已经将这个不幸的词(冥想) 带到了这里。 因此,冥想并不是 按照某种方法去练习。 这是很显然的。 不管它是「禅宗」也好…… ——「禅宗」是一个以奇特巧妙的方式 拼凑起来的东西。 它来自于古印度, 然后传播至中国, 又从中国传到了日本。 那里的人不会读dhyana(禅那) 这个梵文词语, 于是它就变成了…… 等等这类事情。 而「冥想」也不是去「变成」什么。 「冥想」并不是 成为/变成。 这意味着「冥想」 并不是一个时间的过程。 这点清楚了吗? 换句话说, 根据所有那些 提倡冥想的人的说法: 冥想是一个不断成就实现的过程。 1:04:00 我在这里,然后我开始“建造”, 一层一层地往上盖、一砖一瓦地往上盖, 日复一日, 直到我“开悟”为止 ——不管“开悟”是什么意思。 所以它(冥想)是一种落入于「时间」范畴中的练习、 一种「变成」。 请看到这其中的暗示含义。 我们正在一起讨论它, 你们不必接受 演讲者的说法。 只需看到这其中涉及到的东西: 那种“开悟”是一件 关乎「时间」的事情。 可它是吗? 你们也许会说 佛陀经历了各种砺炼, 他在树下打坐, 然后突然之间,他终于“开悟”了 ——虽然我很怀疑这件事。 「开悟」并不是一件 关乎「时间」的事情, 也就是: 逐渐地去变成/成为什么, 逐渐地摆脱 人生中所有的痛苦, 一步一步地…… 就像你剥洋葱一样, 你流着眼泪, 一层一层地剥下去。 1:05:36 请看到这意味着什么: 持续不断地、有意识地 去努力实现某个「成果」。 那个「成果」 是别人已经向你承诺保证的, 它(成果)是某种 和我痛苦不堪的日常生活 截然不同的东西。 而尽管有着所有这些痛苦, 我还是愿意 我还是愿意为之努力。 可这就像是在沙地上 建造房屋一样。 而这就被称为“冥想”。 冥想也被称为是
1:06:26 Meditation is also called: great awareness. Be aware of your breathing, your control, step by step, control. That is, becoming aware of yourself of your thoughts, of your feelings, of your reactions. Is that meditation? You can do all that very easily, why call it meditation? 1:06:26 强烈的觉知。 觉知到你的呼吸、 你的控制, 一步一步地……去控制。 也就是说, 你要觉知到你自己, 觉知你的思想、 你的感受、你的反应。 这难道就是冥想吗? 你可以非常轻松容易地去做所有这些事, 但为什么要把它称为“冥想”呢?
1:07:09 So, if all that is not meditation which means meditation is not a conscious effort. Where there is conscious, deliberate effort, there is the action of will. Will is the summation of desire, as one desires to become prominent in the business world. What is the difference? Only, you call this more holy, the other is mundane, but it is the same movement. So if meditation is not a conscious process, which is will of action: I will practise, I am lazy this morning, I must get up, etc. 1:08:18 Sit cross-legged, breathe properly, do this kind of yoga, that kind of yoga. You follow? It all becomes so childish if you look at it all. That is not intolerance. Why should you be tolerant about ugliness? That means you put up with it. So if all this is nonsense – they are all making quantities of money out of all this, they are rich beyond words, some of them are – so if all this is not meditation, then what is meditation? 1:07:09 所以,如果所有这一切 都不是冥想…… ——这意味着「冥想」并不是一种 有意识的努力。 当存在有意识的、 刻意的努力, 那就会有意志力的行动。 而意志力就是「欲望的聚合」, 就像一个人渴望成为 商界中的杰出人物一样。 它们又有什么区别呢? 只不过你把这个称为“更神圣的”, 而另一个则是世俗的, 但它们是同样的运动。 所以,如果冥想不是一个 有意识的过程 ——也就是意志力的行动: 我要去练习, 今天早上我有点懒, 但我还是必须要起床,等等。 1:08:18 盘腿打坐,然后以正确的方式 进行呼吸训练, 做这种瑜伽、 做那种瑜伽。 你们跟上了吗? 这一切全都是如此的幼稚 ——如果你去观察一下它们的话。 这并不是我不宽容。 为什么你要去宽容丑陋的事物呢? 那意味着你需要忍受它。 所以,如果这一切都是荒谬无意义的 ——有人正在利用所有这些东西 大发横财, 他们中的一些人 已经富得流油了—— 好了,如果所有这些都不是冥想, 那么什么是冥想呢?
1:09:12 That is, a mind, a human being understands this world: the world outside of us, and the world inside. And in the understanding of the world outside, and the understanding of the inside, they are like tides, going out and coming in. Please understand the reality of this. It is a tide. Right? The tide has gone out, created the world, the world outside of us: wars, etc., and then the tide comes in carrying the same movement within us, and we modify it, we cherish it, we do something to it, and it goes out. This is the movement. They are not separate movements. My movement is not separate from the world. It is this eternal movement that has been going on. Man has created society and then he becomes a slave to society. This is the movement. 1:09:12 冥想就是: 一颗心灵、一个人 他去了解这个世界: 了解我们外部的世界, 也了解我们内心的世界。 在了解 外部世界 和内在世界 的过程中, 它们就像是潮汐, 潮水冲出去,然后又返回来。 请理解 这其中的真相。 它就是一阵“潮水”。 对吧? 这阵“潮水”冲了出去, 创造出了这个世界, 创造出了我们外在的这个世界: 战争,等等这些东西, 然后这阵“潮水”又返回来, 在我们的内心掀起了同样的运动, 而我们会修改它,我们珍爱它, 我们对它做了一些事情, 然后这阵“潮水”又冲出去了。 它就是这样的「运动」。 它们并不是 分离独立的运动。 我的「运动」和这个世界 并不是彼此分离的。 这种永恒不息的运动 一直在进行着。 人类创造出了社会, 然后他又成为了 社会的奴隶。
1:10:45 Now, please go into this: to have no such movement. Have you captured this? To end such a movement without any cause. Because if there is such a movement, it is the perpetual reaction, perpetual response to the outer, then that response creates another reaction in me, and I react and create another outward response. So this movement of the outer and the inner, when that stops, comes to an end – not consciously, then you are back, if you do it consciously, then you are back into the same movement. That is, to see the truth of this, to perceive the nature of this movement, the logic of it, the sanity of it, the truth of it. When one perceives that, then there is the ending of that. 1:10:45 就是这样的运动。 而现在,请你们来探究一下它, 那就是:不要有这样的运动。 你们领悟到它了吗? 去结束这样的运动 ——没有任何缘由地结束掉它。 因为如果存在 这样的运动, 你就会有持续不断的反应, 连续不断的对于外部事物的回应, 然后那种回应便会在我心中制造出 另一种反应, 于是我又会对此作出反应, 从而创造出另一种外在的回应。 所以这种外在 和内在的运动, 当它停止了以后, 当它结束了以后 ——不是有意识地结束/停止它, 那样的话你就又倒退回去了, 如果你是有意识地这样去做, 那你就退回到了 同样的运动中。 也就是说, 去看到它的真相, 去看到 这种运动的本质, 看到它的逻辑性、 它的理智和它的真实性。 当一个人看到了它, 那么这种运动就终止了。
1:12:12 To put it differently – I hope you are not tired – to put it differently, we depend on experience. That is what all the meditative people who have all these kind of strange experiences. That is, to recognise an experience as an experience you must have already known about it. I read a book about some strange experience of another, he may be all cuckoo, and he has written a marvellous book and I read it, and I say, by Jove, I've got some pain in my head, or somewhere, and I am beginning to have that experience. So to live, please understand this, to live without a single experience which means to be a light to oneself. 1:13:40 And seeing all the religious circus that is going on in the world – in the name of God, in the name of whatever it is – is meaningless, having perceived the truth of all that, having set aside completely all that, that means there is no outside agency except you. And meditation is the ending of this movement of action and reaction, the outer and the inner. And then, such an ending, because it has no cause, it is endless. You understand? It is timeless. 1:12:12 换句话说 ——我希望你们并没有感到太累—— 换种说法就是: 我们依赖于「经验」。 所有那些“冥想人士” 都是如此, 他们有着各种各样 奇奇怪怪的体验。 换句话说,要识别出 某种经验是“某某体验”, 你必须是 事先已经知道它了。 我读了一本书, 它是关于别人的某种奇特体验的, 那个人也许已经完全疯了, 但他写了一本很棒的书, 而我阅读了它, 然后我说:天哪, 我的头也有点痛了, 或者某某地方也开始痛了, 于是我也开始 有了那种体验。 所以我们需要…… ——请明白这一点—— 我们要 没有任何经验地生活, 这意味着 你要成为自己的光。 1:13:40 能够看到所有那些 正在全世界进行着的宗教闹剧 ——以上帝的名义,或者以任何什么东西的名义 所进行的闹剧—— 它们都是毫无意义的, 而在看清了 所有这一切的真相之后, 你就可以完全地把所有这些东西 搁置一旁了, 这意味着并不存在什么 外在的“中介者” ——除了你自己之外。 而「冥想」就是去 结束掉这种运动 ——这种行动和反应、 外在和内在的运动。 然后,这种「结束」…… 因为它是没有缘由的, 所以它便能够永久。 你们理解了吗? 它是超越时间的。 此外,我们也应该来 探究一下关于
1:14:40 Then also, we should go into this question of a mind, a brain that is quiet. This is part of meditation. Not make the brain quiet through breathing, through repetition, through various tricks, but to make the whole physical, psychological entity to be absolutely quiet. To bring about this quietness, which is, to bring about the silence of the brain. There are various types of silence: silence between two terrible noises, silence between two thoughts, silence between two efforts, silence between two notes. It is like silence, peace between two wars. That is what we are having. There is quietness, there is peace between two wars. that is not silence, that is not peace. 1:14:40 「安静的心灵和大脑」的问题。 这也是「冥想」的一部分。 不是设法让大脑安静下来 ——通过呼吸练习、 通过重复吟诵, 通过各种伎俩让大脑安静下来—— 而是要让整个肉体上的、 和心理上的「存在体」 完全彻底地平静下来。 我们要带来这种「平静」, 也就是说,我们要带来那种 大脑的「寂静」。 存在着 各种不同类型的“寂静”: 比如两个可怕噪音 之间的寂静, 两个思想念头之间的寂静, 两个努力之间的寂静, 两个音符之间的寂静。 它就像是两次战争之间 那段时期中的安静与和平。 这也是我们现在正享有的时期。 在两次战争之间 会有某种安静与和平。 但这并不是真正的寂静、 真正的和平。
1:16:13 So one has to enquire what it is to have a deep, causeless silence. When the brain is totally free from its conditioning then only there is that quality, and the great depth of that silence. Then in that silence, there is the flowering of that which is eternal. But that requires, all this requires great seriousness, not just an hour separated from the rest of one's life. But life is serious, and if one wants to be serious, it is up to all of us. The world demands such a group of beings who are tremendously serious. In that seriousness there is humour too. 1:17:39 So a small group can affect the whole world, as one human being can affect the whole world. So this whole movement is meditation and the happening of that which is timeless, nameless, measureless. Meditation also means to have no measure. that is also part of the root meaning of that word, meditation. To have no measurement, to have no comparison. That which has happened is finished. You don't build on that which has happened. There must be constant emptiness so that there is a movement without any cause. 1:16:13 所以我们必须要去探询一下 什么才算是“拥有了那种深刻的、毫无缘由的寂静”。 当大脑完全摆脱掉了 它的局限, 只有那时才会有这样的品质, 才会有这种无比深刻的寂静。 那时,在这种「寂静」中, 那个「永恒之物」 便会开花绽放。 然而这需要…… 所有这些需要极度的认真严肃, 不只是抽一个小时“认真严肃”一下 ——与我们生活中其余时间相割裂的一个小时。 而是生活必须要认真严肃, 你是否想要变得认真严肃 这取决于我们所有人。 这个世界需要 这么一群人 ——一群极度认真严肃的人。 而在那种严肃中, 同样也蕴含着幽默。 1:17:39 所以一小群人 就能够影响整个世界, 就像某一个人 可以影响全世界一样。 因此,这整个运动 就是「冥想」, 当这种冥想发生时, 它是超越时间的、不可名状的、无法度量的。 「冥想」同样意味着 没有度量。 它(没有度量)同样也是「冥想」这个词语 词根含义的一部分。 那就是:不要有量度、 不要有比较。 那个已经发生的, 它已经结束了。 你不必在已经发生过的东西上 去“建造”什么。 你必须要持续不断地“清空”, 由此便会有一种 没有任何起因/缘由的运动了。
1:19:06 May I get up, please? 1:19:06 请问我可以起身了吗?
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