克里希那穆提 - 为什么我们会有如此多的问题？

Krishnamurti Subtitles

BR85T1 - 为什么我们会有如此多的问题？第一次公开演讲布洛克伍德公园，英国 1985年8月24日
1:17 Krishnamuri: I am sorry it is such bad weather! What do you expect of the speaker? One would, if you don’t mind, take counsel together, take consideration together, weigh things together, observe what is going on in the world together, think together, and deeply be involved with what we are talking about with each other. He alone is not the speaker, you are all speakers and learners like the speaker. So we are together deliberating. To elect a pope it took three days. They deliberated before, balancing, weighing, considering, and so on: at the end of three days they chose a man who is called His Holiness, the father. And together we have nearly ten days.	1:17 很抱歉，今天天气不太好！你们期望演讲者怎么做？如果你们不介意的话，我们可以一起商议它，一起考虑它，一起权衡这些事情，一起去观察这个世界上正在发生的事情，一起去思考，然后深度地参与到我们彼此正在谈论的东西中去。并非只有他才是演讲者，你们全都是讲话者，同时也是学习者 ——演讲者也是一样。所以我们正在一起深思熟虑。要选举出一个教皇，需要花费三天时间。人们事先会深思熟虑、权衡、掂量、考虑，等等：三天之后，他们选择了一个人，这个人被称为是「教皇陛下」，父亲。而我们在一起有将近十天的时间。
3:40 Deliberation implies not only to consider, to weigh, to think out together, and also go into the problems very deeply, slowly, carefully, knowing one’s own prejudices, one’s own crankiness about food clothes, and so on, so that you are not only listening to the speaker, but also listening to your own reactions and prejudices, determinations and vows and all the idiocies that one has, if you will forgive me. So that together, seriously, not separately, not divisively, not you taking one side and the speaker on the other, but together observe what is going on in the world. 5:13 Not only in the world of this particular country, but also all over the world: politics, economics, the scientists, the socialists, the liberals, and so on, conservatives – I forgot to add them – and all the rest of it. So this is not a weekend camping affair, but rather very serious, not church seriousness, churchy seriousness, but rather seriousness that continues not only during these days that we are here together, but also afterwards when you go away from here, when we all separate.	3:40 「深思熟虑」不仅意味着去考虑、权衡和一起思考同样意味着要非常深入、缓慢和小心地去探究那些问题，明白自身的偏见，自身对于食物、衣服等等的偏执，这样你就不仅仅是在聆听演讲者，同样也在聆听你自身的反应、偏见、决心、誓言，以及所有你自己的愚蠢言行 ——请原谅我这么说。由此，我们便可以一起严肃认真地 ——不是各自为政地、不是争议不断地，不是你站在某个立场，而演讲者站在另一个立场—— 而是我们一起去观察这个世界上正在发生的事情。 5:13 不只是在这个国家，而是全世界：政治上的事情、经济上的事情，那些科学家、社会主义者、自由主义者们，等等，还有那些保守派人士 ——我忘记把他们加上了——等等这些。所以这并不是一次周末露营活动，而是一次相当严肃的 ——不是教堂的那种严肃，教会的那种严肃，而是那种不只是在我们在这里共处的几天时间里保持严肃，而且当你离开这里、当我们分开了以后，仍然要严肃。
6:22 And in deliberation, there is also a decision, a view to decide and then act. All that is implied in that one nice word. So together, seriously, not merely intellectually, not romantically, sentimentally or fantastically, but together look at what is happening to all of us.	6:22 而在深思熟虑中，我们便会有某种决定，我们旨在做出决定，然后去行动。所有这些都包含在「严肃」这个美妙的词语中。所以我们要一起认真严肃地去看一下它，不仅仅是思想智力上的，不是浪漫化地、感情用事地，或者幻想地去看它，而是我们一起去看看发生在我们所有人身上的事情。
7:20 One wonders why you are all here and I am here. You have taken a lot of trouble, to set up a camp, bring all your children and dogs – have you got dogs, too? And all the young children and boys and girls, you have taken a lot of trouble to come here: expense, the boredom of travel, transport, all the things involved in this. And we also must bear in mind when we are deliberating together, there is no outside help. It is a deliberation. The speaker is not trying to help, or trying to impress, convince, cajole, pressure, and all that. We can leave that to the politicians, to the newspapers, to television, and the churches all over the world, whether they be temples, mosques, or the churches in the Christian world. 9:09 So we are together, without any pressure, any persuasion on the part of the speaker, or on your side, not taking one particular point of view, and holding on to that. We are both together examining, investigating the extraordinary problems that we are faced with, dangerous, and one does not know what is going to happen in the future, there is immense uncertainty, chaos, and the world is becoming more and more sinister. If you have travelled, if you have read, if you have met some of the politicians, the prime ministers, and so on.	7:20 某人想知道为什么你们和我在这里相聚。你们费尽千辛万苦搭建了营地，把你们的孩子和狗狗都带了过来 ——你们是不是也把狗狗带过来了？以及所有年轻的孩子，男男女女们，你们不辞辛劳地来到这里，花费了很大代价忍受无聊的旅途，舟车劳顿，等等这一切。此外，我们也必须牢记在心：那就是当我们一起深思熟虑的时候我们并不提供任何外在的帮助。我们是在商议它。演讲者并没有试图帮助你，或者试图让你铭记什么，说服你什么，哄骗你什么，向你施压，等等这些。我们可以把这些东西留给那些政客、报纸、电视，以及全世界的教会，不管它们是寺庙、清真寺还是基督教的教堂。 9:09 所以，我们是在一起没有来自于演讲者或者你的任何压力与说服，也不采取某种特定的观点立场并执著于此。我们双方是在一起去检视和探究那些我们所面临的巨大的问题，那些危险，而我们并不知道未来将会发生些什么，它存在着巨大的不确定性，混乱不堪，这个世界正在变得越来越邪恶 ——如果你曾经旅行各地，如果你曾读过一些书，如果你曾见过一些政客、首相等等，你就会发现这一点。
10:21 So we are going first to look at the world, not my world, or your world, the world that is happening in front of us, the things that are going on in the scientific world, in the world of armaments, the race that is going on, the politicians holding on to their particular ideologies, fighting for that. You know, all the rest of it. How do you, if one may ask, approach these problems? Not only one’s own particular problem, but the problems that challenge, that require a determined action, how do you approach these problems? 11:32 The scientific world, the biological world, the world of economics, the world of social inequality, social immorality? We know all this, how do we approach it? As a British? As a Frenchman? As a Hindu? Or a Muslim, and so on? If we approach it with a particular point of view, or with some trained, biologically conditioned, then our motive is known or unknown and therefore your approach will be limited. This is obvious – right? If I, if the speaker is holding on to his India and all that rubbish, then he will look at all the world with all its complicated problems from a particular, narrow view. 13:07 And so his approach will be conditioned, his approach will be partial: self-interest, and so on. So his approach will always be to all these problems, very small, very limited. That is clear.	10:21 所以，我们首先要来看一下这个世界 ——不是我的世界或者你的世界，而是在我们面前发生着各种事情的「世界」，那些科学界正在发生的事情，那些军备领域正在发生的事情那些军备竞赛，政客们紧紧抓住他们特定的意识形态不放，并为此而争战不休。你们都知道所有这些东西。而如果某人可以问下的话：你们是如何去处理面对这些问题的？不仅只是你们个人特定的问题，还包括那些带有挑战性的、需要下定决心行动的问题，你们是如何去处理这些问题的？ 11:32 科学领域的问题，生物学领域的问题，经济领域的问题，社会不平等，社会道德沦丧的问题。我们都知道这些问题，那么我们是如何去处理它的？是作为英国人去处理它吗？是作为法国人去处理它吗？是作为印度教徒或穆斯林等等去处理它吗？如果我们处理问题是带着特定的观点，或者带着某种训练出来的、生物学上的局限，那么我们的动机就是已知或未知的，因此你的处理方式就将是局限的。这是显而易见的——对吧？如果我，如果演讲者坚持他印度人的身份及其所有无用的垃圾那么他看这个世界，看待这个世界所有复杂的问题，就会是从某个特定的、狭隘的角度出发的。 13:07 因此他的处理方式将会是局限的，他的处理方式将会是局部的、利己主义的等等。因此他的处理方式将总会是他对于所有这些问题的处理方法都会是非常琐碎、非常局限的。这是很清楚的事。
13:33 So one is asking, we are asking together, how will you approach these problems? Not a particular problem, whether it be yours or your wife’s, your husband’s, and so on, but the problems, a problem. How do you approach a problem? Which is, how do you approach a challenge? Something you have to face, answer and act.	13:33 所以某人在问，我们在一起发问：你要如何去处理这些问题呢？不是某个特定的问题 ——不管它是你的问题，还是你妻子或丈夫等人的问题，而是「问题」——它的总称。你是如何去处理「问题」的？也就是，你是如何去处理面对「挑战」的？某种你必须要面对、回应和采取行动的事物。
14:29 What is a problem? According to the dictionary meaning, it is something thrown at you. Right? Something that you have to face and answer. Not that time, circumstances, pragmatically respond, casually, or with a certain sense of smugness, or with certain obvious conclusions. How do you come to it? We are deliberating together, there is not the speaker sitting on the platform, which he doesn’t like anyhow. It is not a personal thing at all. He has got a name and all the rest of that business. Personality doesn’t enter into this at all, you can brush that completely aside. So, in what way do we come to face the problem? So we will have to ask what is a problem.	14:29 什么是「问题」？根据词典上的意思，「问题」是某种朝你扔过来的东西——对吧？某种你必须要去面对和回应的事物。不是根据时机、环境，基于实用主义去回应它，随意地回应它，或者带着某种自命清高的感觉或确定明显的结论去回应它。你是如何去处理面对它的？我们正在一起深思熟虑，而不是演讲者坐在这个台子上 ——他其实一点儿也不喜欢这样。这根本就不是一件个人化的事情。他有一个名字，等等所有这类东西。但个人化的东西完全没有涉入其中，你们可以彻底地把它们扔在一边。所以，我们是以什么样的方式来处理面对问题的？由此我们就必须要问一下：什么是「问题」？
16:16 Why have we so many problems? All our life from the beginning to the end, from being born to dying, we are crowded with problems, we are worn out by problems – worry, anxiety, uncertainty and the perpetual conflict, struggle, pain, anxiety, all the rest of it. So shouldn’t we together find out how to deal with problems? That is the first question.	16:16 为什么我们会有如此多的问题？我们的生命从一开始到结束，从出生到死去我们都充满了各种问题，我们被各种问题消耗殆尽了，担忧、焦虑、不确定，永无止息的冲突、斗争、痛苦、忧虑，等等这些。所以，我们难道不应该一起去搞清楚我们要如何去处理「问题」吗？这是第一个问题。
17:11 We know each one of us has a problem of some kind or another – health, old age, or some disease, incurable, terminal, or some psychotic problems, or some fantastic, illusory cranky problems, which we call religious problems, and so on. So please let’s together find out why from the beginning of our existence, when we’re born till we die, there’s this constant resolution of problems. Right? Can we go into it together? 18:23 Not the speaker explains and you accept or reject, but we are debating together, deliberating together, weighing together – together. As we said, what is a problem? A problem is something thrown, it is a challenge to which you have to come to, apply your brains, one’s activity, not just nervously respond to it, your whole brain is involved in this. Right?	17:11 我们都知道：其实每一个人都有这样或那样的问题：健康问题、衰老问题、或者某种难以治愈的、致命的疾病，或者某种精神疾病问题，或者某种荒诞的、幻觉的、暴躁古怪的问题——我们把它称为 “宗教问题”！（笑声）等等这些。所以请让我们一起去搞清楚为什么从我们存在的一开始起从我们一出生直到我们死去，我们一直在不断地解决「问题」。对吧？我们可以一起来探究下它吗？ 18:23 不是演讲者在那解释，然后你们接受或者拒绝，而是我们正在一起辩论，一起仔细考虑它，一起权衡掂量它——我们一起。我们之前问：什么是「问题」？「问题」就是某个朝你扔过来的东西，它是一个挑战，而你必须要运用你的大脑、你的行动去应对处理它，不仅仅是神经上对它作出反应，而是你的整个大脑都要参与其中。对吧？
19:16 From childhood we have a problem, how to read. When you leave home you feel nostalgic, homesick, and you when you are in a school you have to learn how to write, read all the terrible books. And that becomes a problem – right? – right from childhood, when you go to school, college, university, and so on. If you are a labourer, that becomes a problem. You know, the whole of life is a problem. So our brains are conditioned from childhood to the resolution of problems – right? We are in agreement? Are we together in this? 20:18 Not I am explaining, you are accepting. We are together on the same boat. You may row faster, you may have more strength, more skill, others may be weak, but we are in the same boat. So, is that clear? Our brains from childhood are conditioned to problems, we live with problems. That is obviously very clear – right? Sexual problem, the problem of relationship, the problem of power, status, position, authority and dominating, obeying and disobeying, you know, the whole movement of life. So can we listen – or hear – to our own conditioning: conditioned, trained, educated to live with problems? 21:41 And in the resolution of one problem you create other problems, which the politicians are doing so remarkably well. And we are doing the same. So is it possible – we are deliberating together, please, don’t listen to the speaker alone – is it possible to be free of problems, first – the brain – – and then tackle problems – you understand? Yes, is it possible? I don’t know and you don’t know.	19:16 我们从小开始就有「问题」了，如何阅读。当你离开家以后，你会有思乡之情，你会想家，而当你在学校里的时候，你又不得不学习如何写字，如何读那些糟糕的书本。而这也成了问题——是吧？从我们小时候起，然后当你去上学，然后进入学院、大学等等，问题也一直存在。而如果你是一个劳动工人，你也会有「问题」。你瞧，整个生活就是一个问题。所以我们的大脑从小开始就被制约着去解决各种问题——对吧？我们意见一致吗？我们是否都理解了它？ 20:18 不是我在那解释，然后你们接受。我们都在同一条船上。你也许划船划得更快，你也许力气更大、技术更娴熟，而其他人也许差劲一点，但我们都是同一条船上的人。所以，这点清楚了吗？我们的大脑从小开始就被问题所制约了，我们一直和问题生活在一起。这是显而易见的——对吧？性方面的问题，关系的问题，权力、身份、地位、权威的问题，以及支配、服从和不服从的问题，你知道的，这整个生活的运动。所以我们能否聆听——或者听到—— 我们自身的制约？我们被制约着、训练着、教育着去和问题生活在一起。 21:41 而就在解决某个问题的过程中，你会制造出其他的问题，政客们在这方面做得非常出色。而我们也是这么做的。所以是否可能 ——我们是在一起仔细考虑这件事，请不要只是听演讲者说 ——是否可能首先摆脱掉问题，让大脑摆脱掉那些问题，然后大脑再去解决问题，你们理解了吗？就是这样，它可能吗？我不知道，你们也不知道。
22:33 So we are enquiring into that, first. We have many issues in life, very, very complicated. The whole personality, the whole activity of the brain, the feelings, the sentiments, urges, attachments, we have got so many of them. And we never seem to resolve any of them, but gradually wither away, die. So it becomes very important, doesn’t it, to you and to all of us, whether the brain, which has been trained to live and take share, part, active with problems, can that brain – please, think this out together, not me alone – can this brain have no problems at all and therefore tackle problems? 23:59 You understand? It is only the free brain that can understand problems, resolve problems. Not a brain that is crowded with problems. The scientists are crowded with them. They are first human beings and then scientists. The human beings have problems and the scientists with their theories and all the rest of it, have their problems – right? So it is a constant movement or a continuous chain of problems. Right? Now, how can we resolve this? Can you, we together, resolve this question, which is very serious because we are facing a very, very dangerous world. 25:07 They are playing, the politicians on one side, the ideologists on one side, and the other side with their immense sense of power, and so on, both sides are waiting – right? Right? Mounting armaments, race. And we are caught in the middle of it. All right, sirs?	22:33 所以我们先要来探询这一点。我们在生活中有着许许多多的问题，这些问题是非常非常复杂的。所有人不同的个性，大脑的各种活动，各种感情、情绪、冲动、执著，我们有着如此多的问题。但我们似乎从未能够解决任何一个问题，而是逐渐地枯萎，然后死去。所以，对你、对我们所有人来说，很重要的一点就是：大脑一直被训练着去这样生活…… 去积极地参与到问题中去，那么这样的大脑是否…… 大脑是否能够请和我一起去仔细考虑它，而不是我一个人去思考它：这个大脑能否消除掉任何问题，从而才能够去处理解决那些问题？ 23:59 你们听懂了吗？只有一个自由的大脑才能够理解问题、解决问题。而不是一个充斥着各种问题的大脑。科学家们充满了各种问题。科学家首先是个人，然后才是科学家是人就会有各种问题，而科学家有着他们的科学理论，等等这些东西，他们也会有自己的问题 ——对吧？所以这是一种持续不断的运动，或者说是连续不断的连锁的问题。对吧？那么，我们要如何才能解决它呢？你们能否……我们能否一起去解决这个问题？这个问题是非常严肃的，因为我们正面对着一个非常非常危险的世界。 25:07 他们正在玩火，一边是政客，一边是意识形态专家，另一方面则是他们那巨大的权力感，等等，双方都在伺机而动——是吧？对吧？越来越多的武器，彼此竞赛。而我们则夹在这中间。是吧，先生们？
25:47 There is immense poverty, of which this country, or you don’t know. Immense poverty, degradation, corruption, and so on. We will talk about gods later and all the religious organised structure called religion with their ceremonials, mediaeval dresses, and so on.	25:47 这个世界有着巨大的贫穷，但这个国家（英国） ——或者说你们——并不知道它。巨大惊人的贫穷、堕落、腐败等等。我们之后将会来谈论一下「神明」，和所有宗教的组织化的架构它们被称为「宗教」，以及宗教的各种仪式、中世纪的服装，等等。
26:25 So we’re asking whether our brains can be free to resolve problems. Bien? You have to answer that, don’t keep still. What will you do? Whatever you do will be another problem – right? You say I will do this, I won’t do that, I will believe this, I won’t believe that, this is true, this is false, I pursue what I want. All that creates more problems – right? So it behoves us, first, to find out whether our brains can be free of problems, to understand and resolve problems. Right? Don’t look at me. Perhaps one has not thought, or gone into this question. 28:06 One will ask, ‘Give me time to think over it’. ‘Let me carefully observe, look and then decide’. If you allow time, that is, I will think about it, I will weigh pros and cons, where it is necessary to have problems, where it is not necessary to have problems, and so on. If you take time over it – right? – what happens? You answer. What happens if I take time over some problem which has to be resolved immediately, instantly? If it is not possible to resolve it instantly, there will be other problems creeping up – right? 29:26 Right? So will you instantly solve the problem? Solve the question, the challenge, that your brain which has been trained for so many years to live and move among the problems so that your brain is never free. Isn’t that the first problem? Because we have got to face several complicated issues as we go along. Why we human beings all over the earth, which is extraordinarily beautiful, why we have lived 2. 5 million years on this earth, or more or less, psychologically, subjectively, we have changed very little, we are still barbarians in the real sense of that word. 30:48 Why haven’t we moved away from the set pattern after all these million years? That is a problem. Why the world is divided into nationalities, into religious activities, why the world has been fighting each other, killing each other, the appalling things that wars have done from the club to the atom bomb, why we are going on still like that? Why we elect these politicians? Why we are so frightened of the future? We have got many, many, many problems – right?	26:25 所以我们正在彼此询问：我们的大脑能否变得自由，以便能够去解决问题。好吗？你们必须要回答它，请不要保持沉默。你会怎么做呢？无论你做了什么，它都会成为另一个问题——对吧？你说：我将会这样做，我不会那样做，我将会相信这个，我不会去相信那个，这是正确的，那是错误的，我要追求我想要的。所有这些都会制造出更多的问题 ——对吧？所以我们应该首先去发现我们的大脑是否能够脱离那些问题，从而能够理解和解决那些问题。对吧？不要看我啊。也许你并没有去思考或者探究过这个问题。 28:06 你会说，“给我点时间去好好思考下它。” “让我仔细地去观察、去审视，然后再做出决定。 ” 如果你允许「时间」的介入，也就是：我将会去思考下它，我将会权衡利弊，在哪些地方我们需要有问题，在哪些地方我们不需要有问题，等等。如果你为此花费时间——是吧？ —— 那么会发生什么呢？请你来回答它。如果我花费时间去处理某个问题 ——而这个问题是必须立即、立刻得到解决的—— 那么会发生什么呢？如果我们不能立刻解决它，那么其他问题就会悄然出现——对吧？ 29:26 对吗？所以你能否立即就解决掉那个问题？解决掉那个问题、那个挑战，你的大脑多年以来已经被训练着去和问题一同生活、一同行动，因此你的大脑永远没有自由。这难道不是首要的问题吗？因为当我们继续讨论下去的时候，我们不得不面对若干复杂的问题。为什么这个地球上的人类 ——这个地球是如此非凡美丽—— 为什么我们在这个地球上生活了250万年 ——可能更多，可能更少然而在心理上，从主观上来说，我们却没有什么改变我们仍然是“野蛮人”——真正意义上的野蛮人。 30:48 在经过了这几百万年之后，为什么我们还是没能脱离既定的模式？这就是问题所在。为什么这个世界要划分为不同的国家、不同的宗教活动？为什么这个世界一直在彼此争战，彼此杀戮，那些战争所犯下的骇人罪行，从棍棒互殴的战争升级到原子弹的战争。为什么我们仍旧是这个样子？为什么我们会选举出这样的政治家们？为什么我们如此害怕未来？我们有着无穷无尽的问题——对吧？
31:54 So it is important to understand, it appears, if you will permit it, that each one of us talking to each other, weighing, considering, what shall we do? What will you do? Of course, if you are stuck on diet, or yoga, or some kind of fanciful, imaginative, cranky thing, then you are lost, obviously. You are hooked to something. But you will never solve any of the problems.	31:54 所以看起来，重要的是明白这一点 ——如果你们也允许的话—— 那就是我们每个人，我们在彼此交谈、权衡、考虑，我们该怎么做呢？你会怎么做呢？当然了，如果你坚持节食，坚持练习瑜伽，或者某种幻想的、异想天开的、稀奇古怪的事情，那么很显然，你已经迷失了。你已经受缚于那个东西了。但你将永远无法解决任何问题。
32:58 So what shall we do together, knowing that there is no help outside – right? Knowing you can attend all the camps in the world, all the gurus in the world – the speaker is not a guru – or come here, nobody can help, except physically, otherwise nobody can help us – your husband, your wife, your girlfriend, and so on, or the priests, or the future scientists – you follow? Here we are. So can we put aside altogether the idea of wanting to be helped, wanting to be told, wanting to follow somebody, believe in something. 34:17 All that becomes irrelevant when you have got to deal with something actual. The actual is what we are: the multiple problems, the tears, the laughters, the agony, the anxiety, jealousy, hate, the psychological hurts, wounds. So what shall we do together, not separately? Right? We can’t live separately. Even the monks organised with their abbeys, monasteries in the Western world, they depend on each other. In the Asiatic world, especially in India, the monk is by himself wandering all over the earth, all over India. 35:42 And they have their problems. I don’t know if you have ever followed a group of monks. Once the speaker was following a group of monks in India, in the Himalayas, and they were chanting, reading their books, never looking at the beautiful stream that went by, heard the song of that stream, the flowers, the extraordinary skyline with snow, mountains 25,000 feet, never looked at all the beauty of the earth. They were just concerned with themselves and their little gods! So, please, answer this question about yourself: whether your brain can be free so that you can understand, dissolve problems. 37:11 If one sees that it is not – that it is actually conditioned – right? – which one sees it, not be told about it, not read something in a book or convinced by another, but if one sees directly for oneself that our brain is so conditioned – right? Can we do that? Don’t... Sir, we are going to ask questions on Tuesday – or is it Tuesday? Yes, Tuesday. Because if you all ask questions now – you don’t mind, sir?	32:58 所以，在知道了并不存在“外在的帮助”后，我们应该一起来做些什么呢？——对吧？当你明白：虽然你可以参加全世界的各种露营活动，拜访全世界所有的古鲁 ——演讲者并不是古鲁——或者来这里，但没有人可以帮助你时 ——除了在身体上帮你治病之外，没有人可以帮助我们—— 不管是你的丈夫、妻子，还是女朋友，等等，或者那些牧师，以及未来的科学家们，他们都帮不了我们 ——你们跟上了吗？事实就是如此。那么我们能否彻底抛开 “想要被帮助”的想法，抛开想要被告知，想要跟从某人、信仰某物的想法呢？ 34:17 当你准备去处理某种实际的事物时，所有这些都变得无关紧要了。「实际事物」就是我们的真实模样：大量的问题，眼泪，欢声笑语，痛苦烦恼、焦虑、嫉妒、怨恨，心理上的伤害，那些创伤。所以我们要一起来做些什么呢 ——是一起，而不是自己单独去做。对吧？我们是无法各自单独地生活的。即使是那些西方世界的修道士，他们在自己大大小小的修道院里，也是有组织的，他们会彼此依赖。而在亚洲世界，尤其是在印度僧侣会独自一个人云游四方，云游整个印度。 35:42 但他们也有自己的问题。我不知道你们是否曾经跟随着一群僧侣行走过？演讲者曾经跟着一群印度的僧侣行走在喜马拉雅山上，他们当时忙着唱诵，阅读他们的圣典，他们从来不去看一眼从他们身旁流过的美丽小溪，也没有听到溪水的淙淙歌声，他们没有看到那些鲜花，没有看到那令人惊叹的天际线，以及被白雪覆盖的两万五千英尺高的山川，他们从来不去欣赏这个地球的无穷美丽。他们只是关心他们自己和他们卑微的神明！所以请回答一下这个关于你自己的问题：即你的大脑是否能够获得自由，由此你便能够去理解和消除掉那些问题。 37:11 如果你看到了大脑并不自由 ——即：它实际上是局限的——对吧？这是你自己看到的，而不是别人告诉你的，也不是在书本上读到的，也不是别人说服你相信的，而是你自己直接看到了我们的大脑是如此的局限 ——对吧？我们能够做到这件事吗？请不要先生，我们将会在星期二的时候进行一场问答会，哦，是不是星期二？是的，是星期二。因为如果你们现在一起问问题，那我们就…… 你不介意吧，先生？
38:13 Can we do it? Can we talk over together, deliberate together, weigh, consider: is our brain, are we aware of it, our brain living with problems? Not as an observer looking through a microscope, either the right way or the wrong way, but to be aware of it, that our brains are so terribly conditioned to live with problems. The speaker hasn’t to repeat it over and over again.	38:13 我们能够这样去做吗？我们能否一起来商讨，一起来仔细考虑、权衡、探讨这件事，那就是：我们的大脑，它是否…… 我们是否觉察到了这一点：即我们的大脑正和问题生活在一起？不是作为一个观察者通过显微镜在观察它 ——不管观察方式正确与否—— 而是要去觉察到它：即我们的大脑受到了深深的制约而只能和问题生活在一起。我就不再…… ——演讲者就不再一遍遍地重复它了。
39:21 Suppose I am not aware of it, I never even thought about it, I never heard such a thing before: is it possible or not possible? But you have raised a question – right? And my brain, being fairly active, not too dull, not hooked to something, my brain then begins to say: can the brain observe its own activity – you follow? You understand what I am saying? Can the brain be aware of its own limitation, conditioning? As you observe yourself in a mirror when you shave, or do up your face – sorry! – can you so observe your brain? 40:45 Not as an observer looking at something – right? If you observe as an outsider, the outsider is also the observed – right? There is no difference: the outsider, and the insider. Clear? You don’t say when you shave your chin that you are looking at your face from the outside, you are there in the mirror. You might have difficult hairs to cut but you are there, your image is you – right? You don’t say, ‘Well, I look different there from me’, you are what you are. So can the brain become aware of itself, its thoughts, its reactions, its way of living? 41:52 Because that is the centre of all our activity – right? Do we realise that? It is the centre of all our nervous responses, all our reactions, all our conditionings, our feelings, our pleasures, pains, fears, anxieties, loneliness, despair, and the search for love, all the rest of it, it is there. Right? If – when there is no understanding of that, what can I do? Anything I do will be meaningless – right? I wonder if you capture all this? Never mind.	39:21 假如我没有觉察到这一点，我甚至从来没有去想过它，我以前从来没有听过这样的事情：关于它是否可能或不可能？但你已经提出了这个问题 ——对吧？这时我的大脑是相当活跃的，它并不是很迟钝，也没有受缚于某个事物，那时我的大脑就会开始说：我能够……大脑能够观察它自身的活动吗？你们理解了吗？你们明白我在说的东西吗？大脑能否觉察到它自身的制约和局限？就像当你在剃胡子或化妆的时候观察镜子里的自己一样不好意思！（笑声）你能够这样子来观察你的大脑吗？ 40:45 不是作为一个观察者在观看某个东西——是吧？如果你作为一个局外人去观察它的话，你这个局外人同样也是被观察物——对吧？局外人和局内人并没有什么差别。清楚了吗？当你在剃下巴胡子的时候，你不会说我正在从外面观看我的脸，因为镜子里的人就是你。你的胡子也许很难剃，等等，但那个人就是你，镜中的形象就是你 ——对吧？你不会说，“你瞧，镜子里的我和真实的我看起来不一样”，因为那个人就是你的模样。所以大脑能否觉察到它自己，觉察到它的念头、它的反应、它的生活方式？ 41:52 因为大脑就是我们所有活动的中心——对吧？我们意识到这点了吗？大脑就是我们所有神经上的回应、我们所有反应的中心，它也是所有我们的局限、感受、快乐、痛苦、恐惧、焦虑、孤独、绝望、对爱的寻找，等等这一切的中心，它始终在那里。是吧？如果我不了解它（大脑）的话，那么我能做什么呢？那样的话，我所做的任何事情都将是毫无意义的——对吧？我不知道你们是否领会了这一切？但没有关系。
42:51 So, are we aware of the activity of the brain? Why you think such a thing, what your reactions are, why you are so cranky, psychopathic, why you cling to something, why is there this loneliness, the sorrow, the pain, the grief and the anxiety, the uncertainty? Right? We are deliberating together, please. What shall I do if I am not? I know I am not. I am not aware of myself, myself being the brain, the thing that is restless, the thing that is always living in shallow valleys, and deep valleys, that is always seeking self-interest, whether it is in the name of god, in the name of love, in the name of social reform, or seeking power, position, there is always the background of this element. 44:45 Are we aware of all this? If I am not, what shall I do? Help me! Sorry – I forgot that word! I am not asking your help but let’s talk it over.	42:51 所以，我们是否觉察到了大脑的活动？为什么你会去想这样的事？你的反应是什么？为什么你会如此暴躁古怪、精神变态？为什么你会执著于某个事物？为什么你会感到孤独、悲伤、痛苦、悲痛、焦虑和不确定？对吧？我们正在一起仔细考虑这件事，拜托了。如果我没有觉察到的话，我该怎么做呢？我知道我并没有觉察。我没有去觉察我自己， “我自己”指的就是大脑，大脑是焦躁不安的，它总是生活在起伏不定中，它总是在寻求一己私利，不管是以上帝的名义，以爱的名义，还是以社会改革或寻求权力地位的名义，总是存在着这个背景要素。 44:45 我们是否觉察到了这一切？如果我没有觉察到，我该怎么做呢？请帮助我一下！对不起——我把这个词（帮助）给忘了！（笑）我并没有在寻求你们的帮助，而是让我们一起来讨论一下它。
45:12 We have sought help from everybody: from books, from priests, from psychologists, from politicians, from every angle, every corner, we have sought help. And that help has been useless because we are what we are now, we may have changed a little bit here and there, but actually we are what we are. In spite of all the help, in spite of all the leaders, the gurus, the ancient prophecies, the ancient books – oh, for God’s sake! – right? So could we put out altogether from us the idea of seeking help? 46:17 It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be here and I shouldn’t be here. You know, when you see a beautiful thing, you look at it, take delight in the glory of a something beautiful, but you never say, ‘Well, I will never come back here again’. On the contrary. You come back to look at it often. Not that you are going to be helped by looking at the mountain, the beauty of it, the simplicity of an extraordinary sight.	45:12 我们会从任何地方寻求帮助：从书本中，从牧师、心理学家、政治家那里，从每一个角度、每一个角落里寻求帮助。然而那些帮助一直是无用的，因为我们还是原来的模样，我们或许可以在这里那里稍微改变一下，但实际上我们还是原来的样子。尽管我们有了所有那些帮助，尽管我们有各种领袖、古鲁、那些古代的先知、古代的圣典 ——噢，天哪！ ——是吧？所以，我们能否完全放下那种 “想要寻求帮助”的念头？ 46:17 但这并不意味着你们不应该来这里，或者我不应该出现在这里。你瞧，当你看到一个美丽的事物，你会欣赏它，你会从这个美好事物的光辉中获得愉悦，但你永远不会说， “哦，但我永远不会再回到这里。 ” 恰恰相反：你会经常回来欣赏它。但这并不是说你可以通过欣赏高山来获得帮助欣赏高山的壮美，欣赏高山非凡景色的极简之美。
47:12 If my brain is not aware of itself, which is an extraordinary problem whether you are aware of your own thoughts. That is, is thought aware of itself thinking? You understand? This is not intellectual. Do you understand my question? I wonder! Can your thought be aware of itself? Right? If it is not, then what will you do or not do to become completely aware of every movement of thought? Pray? Ask? You can’t do any of those things. So can one remain quiet and watch? We mean by watch, to observe without a single movement of the word, the picture, the symbol, which is, in essence, thought. 48:58 Can you observe, first? Observe without a single activity of the past? Go on, sirs, come with me. Can you observe? Can I observe my pain, physical pain? You understand my question? Can you observe your physical pain, be aware of it? Not say, well, I must rush to the doctor, take a pill, take this, – just be aware of it. Psychologically be aware of it without any movement. Can you? And in the same way observe the activity of the brain, not with lots of words and denials or assertions – just to observe. 50:27 Have you ever observed your wife or your husband, or your girlfriend, really observed, not with the images you have built about her, or him, then that’s – those images are not observation, they are merely projection of the activities which you have gradually built up, which becomes the image between you and her or him, and so on. So one is not actually observing.	47:12 而如果我的大脑没有觉察到它自己，这是一个极其重大的问题：即你是否觉察到了自己的思想。换句话说，思想是否觉察到它自己正在思考？你理解了吗？这并不是在玩智力游戏。你们理解我的问题吗？我也不知道！你的思想能够觉察它自身吗？对吧？如果它不能的话，那么你要做什么或者不做什么，才能完全觉察到思想的每一个活动呢？你会去祈祷吗？你会去祈求吗？你是无法去做任何这些事情的。所以，我们能否保持安静然后去看它呢？我们这里所说的“看”，它的意思是：去观察而不带有任何语言文字、画面意象和符号标志的活动 ——这些活动实质上就是「思想」。 48:58 你能否先去观察？不带有任何「过去活动」地去观察？继续，先生们，和我一起来探究它。你能够去观察吗？我能否观察我的痛苦——我身体上的痛苦？你们明白我的问题吗？你能否观察你身体上的痛苦，去觉察这种痛苦呢？而不是说：啊，我必须赶快到医生那里去吃颗药，吃个这个或那个，而只是去觉察它。心理上对它保持觉察，而没有任何的活动。你可以吗？而我们也要以同样的方式去观察大脑的活动，不是带着一大堆话语，否定或肯定，而只是去观察。 50:27 你是否曾经观察过你的妻子或丈夫，或者你的女朋友真正地观察她，而不是带着你所建立起来的关于她（他）的种种意象，因为那些意象并不是「观察」，它们仅仅是你逐渐构建起来的各种活动的投射，这些活动的投射变成了夹在你和她（他）等等之间的意象。所以你实际上并没有在观察。
51:11 What is the relationship – can I go on? – between observation and love? Is love merely pleasure, merely a desire, a constructed thought? Is there division in that love, as, I love you and nobody else? Or I love you but I am jealous of you – right? So is that love? We will go into that when we talk about all these things. But we are now asking, when there is perception, and that perception can only take place when there is no motive – right? If I have a motive in that perception, in that observation, then that motive controls, shapes, moulds the perception. So is there an observation without any motive? Motive generally is deeply hidden self-interest.	51:11 「观察」和「爱」之间——我可以继续下去吗？—— 它们两者之间的关系是什么？「爱」仅仅是快感、欲望、一种构建好的思想吗？「爱」之中是否会存在着诸如“我只爱你，而不爱别人”这样的分裂？或者“我爱你，但我也会因你而心生嫉妒” ——对吧？那么，这是「爱」吗？当我们讨论所有这些东西的时候，我们将会来深入这一点。但我们现在问的是：当有了洞察，而这种洞察只有当没有了动机以后才会发生——对吧？如果我在那种洞察中、在那种观察中有了一个动机，那么这种动机就会控制、塑造和影响那种洞察。所以是否存在一种没有任何动机的观察？动机通常是一种隐藏得很深的「自私自利」。
53:18 So we come to another very complicated problem, issue rather, or any other word you like to use, how far, how deep, is the self-interest? To what lengths can it be abandoned? Where do I put a stop to it? You understand? Or is it possible to live in this modern world without any self-interest – you understand? – the whole spectrum of it? How deeply can the brain be free, absolutely free of self-interest? Or in what ratio to the activities of life, daily life? Or merely superficially be without self-interest? You understand? The whole depth and the shallowness of self-interest. 54:53 It is a very complex problem this. And if self-interest, which is the beginning of all corruption – right? Do we see that? It is the beginning of all corruption. It is the beginning of all divisive process, which is corruption. It is the beginning, or the origin, of conflict – right? So how far, how deep, or how shallow, can conflict come to an end? Not making it a problem – then we are lost again. Can conflict ever end between human beings, whether they are very close to each other, or very far from each other, can conflict, struggle, the pain of it, can it ever end? 56:31 Go on, sirs, please. What do we mean by conflict? Conflict, essentially, is a distortion. Conflict in any form brings a distorted point of view. Conflict is, essentially, disorder. Right? Are we together, deliberating this, weighing it, considering it, with a view to act? The word means that. So can conflict end? So the brain is then free and can fly. The brain has immense capacity, immense. And we are restricting it, narrowing it down with self-interest and conflict. So can conflict end?	53:18 所以我们又触及到了另一个非常复杂的问题 ——或者更确切地说是「议题」，或者无论你想要用哪个词—— 这种自私自利达到了怎样的程度和深度？而我们能在多大程度上舍弃这种自私自利？我能够在何处停止这种自私自利？你们理解了吗？或者说，我们是否可能生活在这个现代世界中而没有任何自私自利？你们听懂了吗？所有自私自利相关的事情？大脑能在多大程度上获得自由，彻底地摆脱掉自私自利？或者能在多大比例上摆脱掉生活的活动，日常生活中的活动？还是说仅仅是表面上没有了自私自利？你们理解了吗？所有表面的和深层的自私自利。 54:53 这是一个非常复杂的问题。还有，是否自私自利…… 自私自利就是一切腐败的起源——对吧？我们是否看到了这一点？它（自私自利）是所有腐败堕落的开始。它是所有分裂化的过程 ——分裂就是腐败堕落——的开始。它是冲突的开始或者说是冲突的起源——对吧？所以，冲突能够在多大程度上、多深或多浅的程度上止息呢？不要把它变成一个问题，那样的话我们就再次迷失了。人类之间的冲突能否结束 ——不管是彼此关系亲密的人，还是彼此相隔遥远的人—— 冲突、斗争，及其痛苦，它能够结束吗？ 56:31 请继续，先生们。我们所说的「冲突」是什么意思呢？冲突本质上是一种「扭曲」。任何形式的冲突都会带来扭曲的观点。冲突本质上就是「混乱」。对吧？我们是在一起仔细思考、权衡、考虑这件事，从而去行动吗？「冲突」这个词就是这个意思。所以，冲突能够结束吗？那时大脑就是自由的，它将可以飞翔。大脑有着巨大惊人的能力，无限的能力。然而我们正在用自私自利和冲突限制和减少这种能力。所以，冲突能够结束吗？
58:15 Why is there in us this divisive element? You and I, we and they, and... oh, we are this and you are that, what is the origin of it? Is it this contrariness of desire? Is it the opposing elements of thought? Is it the ideal and the fact? The ‘should not be’ and ‘what is’ – you understand? So is it conflict begins when there is this dualistic process in all of us? Please, we are going together on the same path in this, we are together in the same boat. Are we aware of this central fact that in all of us there is this dualistic force at work, the good and the bad – right? 1:00:18 This is an important question. Is the good related to the bad? The speaker is putting a lot of eggs in one basket this morning, a lot of things together, which is part of our life. We have only four talks and two questions and answers, we must cram everything we can into these talks, these deliberations. Are we aware of this central fact? We are always – our morality is balanced between the good and the bad. So one has to ask: is the good related to the bad? Is the noble related to the ignoble, and so on? When one is rather cowardly and the desire to be courageous, that courage, is it really courage, or partly born out of cowardice? 1:01:52 You understand my question? So we are asking together: the bad, what is the bad? And what is the good? If the good is related to the bad, then it is not good – right? We said – we are together in this? If – when, rather, not if, when – that which is beautiful is related to that which is ugly, then the beauty is born out of ugliness – right? Then it is not beautiful. I don’t know if you are following. So if the good is born out of that which is not, then that good is partial, it is not whole, so it is not good.	58:15 为什么我们内心会有这种分裂化的元素？「你」和「我」，「我们」和「他们」，以及哦，我们是这样的，而你们是那样的，它的源头是什么？它的源头是不是彼此矛盾的欲望？是不是思想彼此对立的元素？是不是理想和事实的差距？ “不应该怎样”和“实际上怎样” ——你们理解了吗？所以，是不是当我们所有人内心有了这种二元性的过程，于是冲突便开始了？请注意，我们正一起走在同一条路上，一起在讨论它我们是在同一条船上。我们是否觉察到了这个核心的事实：即在我们所有人内心，这种二元性的力量正在运作着，「善」和「恶」——对吧？ 1:00:18 这是一个重要的问题。「善」和「恶」是相关联的吗？今天早上，演讲者把很多鸡蛋放在了同一个篮子里把很多东西放在了一起讲 ——它们是我们生活的一部分。我们只有四场演讲和两场问答会，所以我们必须尽可能地把所有东西（笑）都塞进这几次演讲、这几次商议中。我们是否意识到了这个核心的事实？我们总是…… 我们的道德游走在「善」与「恶」的平衡之间。所以我们必须要问一下：「善」与「恶」是相关联的吗？「高尚」和「卑鄙」有关吗？等等诸如此类。当一个人相当怯懦，然后他渴望变得勇敢，那种勇气，它真的是勇气吗？还是说它在某种程度上是源自于怯懦？ 1:01:52 你们理解我的问题吗？所以我们正在一起询问：那个「恶」，什么是「恶」呢？什么是「善」呢？如果「善」是和「恶」相关联的，那它就不是「善」了——对吧？我们说…… ——我们是否都在努力思考它？如果——更确切地说，不是“如果”，而是“当”—— 当那个美丽的事物是和丑陋之物相关联的，那么美的事物就是源自于丑陋的——对吧？所以它就不是美的事物了。我不知道你们是否都理解了。所以如果「善」的事物是来自于那个「非善」的事物，那么这个「善」就是部分的，它不是整体性的，所以它并不是「善」。所以，「道德」并不是这两者之间的平衡。
1:03:10 So morality is not the balance of these two. Right? I wonder if you see this? So can one be free of this duality, the dualistic process? This question, the good and the bad in conflict with each other, has been there for forty, fifty thousand years and more. You see those paintings in the ancient caves, both in France and in other parts of the world, the good is always fighting the bad, and the bad is fighting the good. You know all this. And the outcome of that fight, that struggle, is considered the highest morality. Right? The good can never be related to the bad. Love cannot be related to hate, to anger, to jealousy. If it is related, then it is not love, it is part of pleasure, desire, and so on.	1:03:10 是吧？我不知道你们是否明白了这点？所以我们能否摆脱掉这种二元性，这种二元性的过程？这个问题——这种「善」与「恶」彼此冲突的问题，已经存在了有四、五万年了，甚至更久。你可以在法国和世界上其他地方的古老的山洞里看到那些壁画，「善」永远在与「恶」斗争，而「恶」则会和「善」作战。你们都知道这一切。而这种战斗、这种斗争的结果被认为是最高的道德。对吧？然而「善」永远不会与「恶」相关。「爱」不会和「恨」、「愤怒」或「嫉妒」有关。如果「爱」和这些东西有关，那它就不是「爱」了。它变成了快感、欲望等等的一部分。
1:05:00 So can we live on this earth – some of us, for God’s sake! – can some of us, or all of us, live without a single conflict? You can’t answer this question, but let the seed of that question operate. You understand? If the seed is alive, not just the theory of it, then it has its own tremendous vitality, not your thinking about it, not saying, ‘Well, I must understand what the devil he is talking about’. But if the seed that the good is totally unrelated to the bad, let, if one may suggest, let that seed grow. You have planted a seed in the earth, the peach tree, or whatever it is, you have planted it, an oak. 1:06:24 You don’t pull it up every day to see if it is growing, you leave it in the earth and let that question, if it has vitality, energy, then that very question begins to grow, act. You don’t have to do anything, the thing itself is moving. Can we do that together? You help to plant a seed and I dig the earth. It is a work together. It is not you plant and I cultivate, but together. So the question has tremendous significance, in itself, not the answer, not the result, but the question: is it possible to live in this world with all the complications, without a single shadow of conflict? 1:07:45 You have planted it in your brain, let it remain there, let it see what happens. So we are asking: have you planted that seed? That means have you, has each one of us listened to the question? Not only with the hearing of the ear, but the actual fact of it. The fact that we have lived on this earth for 2 or 3 million years, or 45,000 years, not certainly 4,000 years, which the fundamentalists like to think. We have lived on this earth for so long. And we are still living in conflict. And as this is a very serious question, not only the brutal conflict of war, but conflict between ourselves. 1:09:09 I must understand what does he mean. He doesn’t mean a thing. He means we are together. And is the seed, to live without any conflict, planted deep, in the deep valley of the brain, so that there is soil there, much richer soil than the soil of the earth. And from there it can grow, the answer, the decision, the execution of it. I think that is enough for this morning, isn’t it? May I get up?	1:05:00 那么，我们能否生活在这个地球上 ——看在上帝的份上——至少我们中能有一些人我们中能否有一些人，或者我们所有人可以毫无冲突地生活？你无法回答这个问题，但你可以让这个问题的种子生根发芽。你理解了吗？如果这个种子是活的 ——不只是理论上的—— 那么种子自身就会具有巨大的活力，而不是靠你去苦思冥想出来的，不是去说，“啊，我必须要搞明白他在说些什么鬼东西”。而是当那个种子 ——即「善」和「恶」完全无关时，如果某人可以建议下的话 ——请你们让这颗种子成长。你已经在土地里种植了一颗种子，一棵桃树的种子或者无论什么树，你已经种下了它，或者一颗橡树种子。 1:06:24 你不会每天去拔苗助长，看看它有没有在生长你会让它在土壤中自然生长，让那个问题…… 如果那个问题有自身的活力与能量的话，那么这个问题本身就会开始成长、运作。你并不需要去做任何事，那个东西自身就会运动起来。我们能够一起去这样做吗？你帮助种下一颗种子，而我负责耕地。这是一种协作。它并不是你种下种子，然后我耕作，而是我们一起工作。所以，问题本身就具有重大的意义，不是那个答案，不是那个结果，而是那个问题：我们是否可能生活在这个世界上，生活在这个错综复杂的世界上，而没有丝毫冲突的阴影？ 1:07:45 你已经在你的大脑中种下了这颗种子，请你把它留在那里，看看会发生什么。所以，我们正在问：你是否已经种下了那颗种子？它的意思就是：你们是否…… 我们每个人是否聆听了这个问题？不只是用耳朵听到，而是聆听到它的事实真相。那个事实就是：我们已经在这个地球上生活了有200或300万年了，或者4万5千年了，而不一定是原教旨主义者所认为的4000年。我们已经在这个地球上生活了如此之久。而我们如今仍旧生活在冲突之中。而由于这是一个非常严肃的问题，不仅仅是战争残酷野蛮的冲突，也包括我们彼此之间的冲突。 1:09:09 我必须要了解他说的是什么意思。然而他并没有说什么东西。他的意思是我们要一起来做这些事。而那颗“种子”——也就是没有冲突的生活—— 它被种在了大脑的最深处，所以那里是有土壤的，那里的土壤要比这个地球上的土壤更为肥沃。而那颗种子在那里就可以成长，它将会回答、决定和执行。我想今天早上讲到这里就够了，是吧？我可以站起来了吗？

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