Krishnamurti Subtitles
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BR85T4 - 过着宗教性生活的大脑的本质
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| 0:55 Krishnamurti: The speaker also would like to make an announcement and I hope you will take it seriously. This is not a resort. There is a swimming pool, tennis court, and it is becoming too popular, too large. There are people trying to interpret what K is talking about, and he has always been saying, please, don’t interrupt – interpret, not interrupt. So please, bear in mind, we are going to make it much more orderly, strict and not make it into another resort for amusement, please. Though it has been announced several times, that music that goes on, what is called music – bong is it? – thumping on the drums, and so on, 2:31 went on until half past ten last night. So please be courteous, careful of others, and also, if one may point out, wherever K goes he is a guest, whether he is India, in America or here, so one must behave like a guest – respecting others, considering others, having some kind of order and not let it become much too big as it is becoming. We are going to do something about all this next year. | 0:55 演讲者想要声明一下， 我希望你们都能认真严肃地对待它。 这里并不是一个旅游度假胜地。 虽然这里有一个游泳池，还有网球场， 并且它正在变得广受欢迎、范围巨大。 有人试图解释克氏（即克里希那穆提）所说的东西， 而他（克氏）总是在说：请不要打断（interrupt） ——（应该是）解释（interpret），不是打断。 所以请牢记在心，那就是我们会把这里 变得更有秩序、 更严格控制，而不会把它变成另一个用来娱乐的旅游胜地， 这点请你们注意。 尽管我已经声明了这一点好几次， 那边的音乐还是在继续 那种音乐叫什么来着？ 是什么音乐？ 2:31 他们用力锤击那些鼓，等等， 一直持续到昨晚十点半为止。 所以请保持礼貌，也注意下别人， 同样的，如果允许我指出的话： 无论克氏去哪里，他都是一个客人， 不管他是在印度、在美国，还是在这里， 所以他必须表现得像一个客人一样 ——尊敬别人，为别人考虑， 营造某种秩序， 不要让这个地方变得规模太过庞大 ——它正在变得越来越庞大。 我们明年就会对所有这一切采取一些行动。 |
| 3:33 May we go on with other things? We were talking about various problems of life, of our daily, monotonous, rather pleasurable lives that are full of fear, anxiety, antagonism, and so on. We went into the question of time-thought. And yesterday – was it yesterday morning? Yes, by Jove, sorry – yesterday morning we talked about the ending of sorrow, what it implies, what is the nature of sorrow, and all the pain, the anxiety, the loneliness, the depression, the uncertainty – all that is implied in sorrow. 5:09 And in certain parts of the world they worship sorrow, pain. And we have never been able to end sorrow, not only the sorrow of one’s own life in different ways, but also the sorrow of the world as a whole. All the terrible wars that are going on, what is happening in Lebanon and South Africa, and the Communist world, total totalitarianism where you are forced to think along a certain line, preparing on both sides war, the atom bomb ultimately. And that is what is going on. 6:12 And millions and millions have been slaughtered in the name of God, peace, country, some ideological concept, theories. This has been our lot and we have endured all this for millions of years. And we are, through long evolution, we were barbarous once, savages, and when one looks at it, what is happening now, we are still barbarians, we are still inwardly violent, inwardly concerned with ourselves and nobody else, concerned with our own pleasures, problems, and so on. 7:21 We never seem to realise that we are the world, and the world is us. This is not a theory, this is not something that you think about and come to a conclusion, ideologically, or as a Utopian idea, but it is an actuality in daily life. You are the world, and the world is you. One wonders how many of us realise this fact, actually realise as we realise physical pain, as we feel when we are affectionate, tender, quiet. This is an obvious fact that you suffer and the rest of mankind suffers. 8:42 You are violent, the rest of mankind is violent. When you intend to do something for yourself and you want to fulfil that, you are becoming violent like the rest of the world. We went into all this during all these talks, not only during the past 70 years – I am sorry to point this out – but also now. We actually don’t feel, realise in our heart and brain that we are the rest of mankind. When one actually realises this fact, not a theory, not an idea, but the actual, daily fact, then there is totally a different way of living. 10:08 You don’t belong to any country, no religious group, no spiritual authority, or those who want to interpret what K is talking about. And when you really feel that you are, you are actually the rest of mankind, you will never kill another, you will never psychologically, consciously or unconsciously, or deliberately want to hurt another. | 3:33 我们可以继续来谈下其他东西吗？ 我们之前谈论了各种生活的问题， 我们每天单调乏味的、充满各种快感的生活， 这种生活同样也充满了恐惧、 焦虑、敌对等等。 我们也探讨了关于 时间/思想 的问题。 而昨天——是昨天早上吧？ 是的，天哪，不好意思 昨天早上，我们还谈论了「苦难」的终结，它意味着什么， 以及苦难的本质是什么？ 所有的痛苦、焦虑、 孤独、抑郁、不确定， 这一切全都包含在「苦难」之中。 5:09 而在这个世界的某些地方， 人们会崇拜苦难、崇拜痛苦。 而我们从未能够结束苦难，不仅是我们自己生活中 的各种苦难，同样也包括整个世界的苦难。 所有那些正在进行着的可怕的战争， 黎巴嫩 和南非正在发生的事情，以及共产主义的世界， 彻底的极权主义， 在那里你被迫依照特定的方式去思考， 双方都在准备着战争， 最终的结果就是原子弹。 这就是正在发生的事情。 6:12 成百上千万的人被屠杀了 ——以上帝的名义， 以和平、以国家、以某种意识形态概念、 以某种理论的名义被屠杀。 这就是我们的悲惨命运， 而我们已经忍受这一切有几百万年了。 而我们在经历了漫长岁月的进化之后， 我们曾经很野蛮，是一群野蛮人， 而当我们观察一下如今正在发生的事， 我们会发现自己仍然是野蛮人， 我们内心仍旧是暴力的， 我们内心仍旧只关心自己 而不关心别人， 我们关心我们自己的各种快感、 各种问题，等等。 7:21 我们似乎从未意识到“我们就是世界，这个世界就是我们”。 这并不是一个理论，这并不是某种你空想出来的、 然后在思想上得出的结论， 或者是某种乌托邦的想法， 它是我们日常生活中的一个事实。 你就是世界，这个世界就是你。 某人不知道我们中有多少人意识到了这一事实， 真正地意识到了它， 就像我们意识到身体上的痛苦， 就像我们能感觉到自己的深情、温柔与平静一样。 这是一个显而易见的事实：即你会痛苦， 而世界上其他的人也会痛苦。 8:42 你是暴力的，其他的人在受苦，但他们也是暴力的。 当你想要为自己去做某些事情， 你想要去完成它， 你就会变得暴力 ——就像这个世界上的其他人一样。 我们在所有的演讲中探讨了这一切， 不只是在过去的70年里 ——很抱歉我要指出这一点——同样也包括现在。 我们实际上并没有感觉到 并没有在我们心中和头脑中意识到 我们就是“其他的人”。 当我们真正地意识到这一事实， 不是把它作为一个理论、一个理念， 而是一个实际的、日常生活中的事实， 那么我们就会有一种截然不同的生活方式。 10:08 你不会再让自己去归属于任何国家、 任何宗教团体、任何灵性权威， 或者任何想要诠释克氏话语的人。 而当你真正感觉到自己就是世界， 自己实际上就是这个世界上其余的人， 你就永远不会去杀死别人， 你永远不会在心理上有意识地 或无意识地，或者故意地想要去伤害别人。 |
| 11:05 Please, this is all very, very serious, it is not just for a Sunday gathering, a sermon, or a lecture. We are together in the same boat. We are together understanding the world and ourselves and our relationship to the world – not our responsibility, our relationship to the rest of mankind. You all may be well-fed, well-clothed, houses, flats, and a nice garden, or live in a slum, but there are millions and millions of people who are starving, deliberately races are being killed, tribes are being killed. And as long as we don’t feel all this, but merely accept it as an idea, a conclusion, we are going to create a monstrous world, which we are creating already. And we are that which is happening. | 11:05 请注意，这一切都是非常非常严肃的东西， 这并不只是一次星期天的聚会， 一次布道或讲课。 我们是同一条船上的人。 我们正在一起了解这个世界和我们自己， 以及我们和这个世界的关系 ——不是我们的责任， 而是我们和世界上其他人的关系。 你们或许都丰衣足食， 有房子、有公寓、还有美丽的花园， 或者你们是住在贫民区里的， 但这个世界上有着成百上千万人 正在挨饿，某些种族正在被蓄意地灭绝， 部落的人正在被屠杀。 而只要我们还是没有感同身受， 而仅仅只是把它作为一个观点、 一个结论来接受的话， 我们就将创造出一个丑陋残忍的世界 ——我们现在已经在创造着这样的世界了。 我们就是那些正在发生的东西。 |
| 13:05 And this morning we ought to talk about other things, too, concerned with our life. We talked about compassion, love, and that compassion has its own intelligence, love has its own intelligence, not the intelligence of clever thought, calculation, remembrance, but when there is compassion, which can only come, or be, when suffering ends. We talked about that a great deal. Unfortunately the speaker has published books about it all, and it is not merely remembering what he has said, or what he wants to say, but the actuality of that feeling of compassion. And that can only come when there is the end of sorrow, and when one actually, in one’s being, in one’s heart, mind feels that he is the rest of the world, doesn’t belong to any sect, any group, any guru, any church, mosque or temple. 14:48 One will listen to all this, or read about all this, which K has talked about for so long, and you say, ‘Yes, marvellous ideas. He has very good reasoning, logical, but...’ and you can add many buts to that. We carry on and thereby lies more conflict. Hear one thing, you agree or disagree, or see the truth of it, and wanting to live up to it, and so begin again conflict. | 13:05 而今天早上，我们也应该来谈论一些其他的东西， 和我们生活有关的东西。 我们谈论了「慈悲」和「爱」， 而那种「慈悲」有其自身的智慧， 「爱」也有其自身的智慧， 这种智慧并不是聪明的想法、精于算计和好记性， 而是有了「慈悲」后……——而只有当「苦难」结束， 慈悲才会出现或者存在。 关于这个我们已经谈了很多了。 不幸的是，演讲者已经出版了很多 关于所有这些东西的书籍， 但你们不仅要记住他所说的东西 或者他想要表达的东西， 更要切实地感受到那种慈悲之情。 而只有当「苦难」结束以后， 当一个人真正地用自己的存在、 在自己的心中、头脑中 感受到他就是“世界上其他的人”，而不属于任何教派、 团体、古鲁、教堂、清真寺或寺庙的时候 ——慈悲才会出现。 14:48 你可以聆听所有这些， 或者阅读所有 克氏多年以来所谈论的东西，然后你会说： “是的，多么绝妙的想法。 他（克氏）有着非常棒的推理能力和逻辑思考，但是……” 然后你可以为此添加很多“但是”。 我们就这样继续下去，从而埋下了更多的冲突。 在听到了某个东西以后，你表示同意或不同意， 或者当你看到了它的真相， 你便会想要去做到它， 由此冲突便再次开始了。 |
| 15:46 So we went into conflict a great deal during these talks here. And we said as long as conflict exists love cannot be between man and woman, between people, nations, communities, enclave, and so on. Our brain which has evolved through long years and time, that brain has extraordinary capacity, each one’s brain has extraordinary capacity. We have used it in the world of technology, the world of computers, and we have never looked at the psychological world, which is far more important, the subjective, the whole psychological process that goes on inwardly. 17:09 We have never looked at it, we have never gone into it, not according to others, even including K, but we have never, or superficially scratched on the surface. And therefore we never put to ourself fundamental questions. And we are now talking over things together, not the speaker is saying something and you just listen, and when you leave the tent forget all about it and pick it up ten years later. This is your life and our life, and if one wants to treat one’s life seriously, or flippantly, or casually, it is up to you. | 15:46 因此，我们在这里的这几次演讲中， 大量探讨了「冲突」。 我们说：只要冲突还是存在，那么男人和女人之间、 民族与民族之间、国家与国家之间、团体与团体之间、 飞地（指在本国境内的隶属另一国的一块领土）与飞地之间等等就不可能会有「爱」。 我们的大脑已经发展进化了无数年、无数时间了， 而这个大脑拥有着 非凡的能力，每一个人的大脑都有着非凡的能力。 我们已经在科技世界中利用了这种能力， 电脑的领域中， 然而我们却从没有去看一下心理世界的领域 ——这个领域远远更为重要， 那种个人主观的、 那整个内在发生着的心理上的过程。 17:09 我们从来没有去审视过它， 我们从来没有去探究过它 ——不要根据别人的观点，甚至是克氏的观点 去探究它， 而我们从未去探究过它，甚至没有表面上去研究一下它。 因此我们从来没有向自己提出过那些根本性的问题。 而我们现在正在一起讨论这些东西， 不是演讲者说一些东西， 你们随便听听， 然后在你离开这个帐篷后便将其忘得一干二净， 并在十年以后再把它捡起来。 这是你的生活，这是我们的生活， 而我们是想要认真严肃地对待自己的生活， 还是轻率地、随意地对待它，这取决于你。 |
| 18:34 And we talked a great deal about freedom, too, freedom from anxiety, sorrow, pain, and all the travail of life. And also there is another kind of freedom. A freedom which is per se, for itself, not because you want to be free from something – that is only very partial freedom. There is a freedom which is completely whole, not partial. | 18:34 我们还谈论了很多关于「自由」的事情， 那种摆脱焦虑、苦难、痛苦和所有生活艰难的自由。 此外还有另外一种「自由」。 一种自我独立存在的自由，即「自由」本身， 不是因为你想要 摆脱掉某个东西 ——这只是非常局部的自由。 存在着一种全然完整的、并非部分的自由。 |
| 19:26 And this morning we should also talk about death. Right? We have talked about so many other things. Death is not a morbid subject on a dark morning or a dark night. People have written books about how to die happily, how to accept it naturally, how to let the body go, you know, they have been talking about it, writing about it endlessly. And we are now, you and the speaker, together, please, together, he is not talking to himself, he is not lecturing, he is not talking about something which you have to understand and therefore have interpreters who will tell you what K talks about. And that is going on in this place, too, which seems so absurd. | 19:26 而今天早上，我们也应该来谈论一下「死亡」。 好吗？ 我们已经谈论了如此多其他的东西。 「死亡」并不是一个在阴暗早晨或 漆黑夜晚才谈论的病态的话题。 人们写了很多书，谈论如何愉快地死去， 如何自然地接受死亡，如何让这个身体离去， 你知道的，人们一直在谈论着它， 不停地写关于「死亡」的东西。 而现在我们，你和演讲者要一起， 请注意，是我们一起 他并不是在自言自语， 他并不是在讲课， 他并不是在谈论某种 要求你们必须要理解的东西， 由此你们需要找一些诠释者 来告诉你们克氏在说些什么。 而这种事情在这个地方同样也在发生着 ——这看起来是如此荒谬可笑。 |
| 21:03 We ought to talk over together this very important, serious, very, very great thing called death. All right, shall we go on? Please, bear in mind, he is not talking to you, we are talking to each other. He has no authority – and I mean it. He has no sense of superiority, he will tell you all about it. But together we are going into it. If you will. If you don’t want to, it is all right. That is all right, too. Nobody is imposing anything on you, directing you, telling you what to do or what to think. Right? | 21:03 我们应该一起来讨论一下这个被称为「死亡」的、 非常重要的、 严肃的、意义非常重大的东西。 好吗，我们可以继续下去吗？ 请牢记在心：并不是他（克氏）在对你们讲话， 我们正在彼此交流。 他（克氏）并没有什么权威 ——我是说真的。 他并没有任何高人一等的感觉： 觉得需要他来告诉你们这一切。 而是我们要一起去探究它。 如果你们愿意的话。 如果你们不愿意，那也不要紧。 这也没什么关系。 没有人会强加给你们任何东西，没有人会指示你们， 告诉你们该做什么，或者该想些什么。 对吧？ |
| 22:26 What is death? And when we ask that question we ought also to consider what is continuity, and also what is ending, something that comes to finality. The ending, continuity, time and death, or thought – right? All these are involved when we ask that question: what is death? Time, thought, the urge, the demand of continuity, and also when we are wanting continuity we also should enquire together into what is ending. And is there a beginning? All these are involved in this question of what is death, not just oxygen, lack of oxygen to the brain and pops off, or kicking the bucket, or whatever you like to call it. It is the whole concern of man: the way he lives and the way he dies. | 22:26 什么是「死亡」？ 而当我们询问这个问题时， 我们也应该来思考一下什么是「延续」， 以及 什么是「结束」 ——某个事物走向了终结。 结束、延续、时间和死亡，或思想——对吧？ 当我们问“什么是「死亡」”时， 所有这些东西都会牵涉其中。 时间、思想、想要延续的冲动与需求， 此外当我们想要延续时， 我们也应该一起来探询一下：什么是「结束」？ 以及是否存在一个「开始」？ 所有这些问题都包含在“什么是「死亡」”这个问题中， 死亡不只是氧气的问题， 大脑缺氧 然后一命呜呼了， 或者“翘辫子”了——无论你喜欢怎么称呼它。 它关系到一个人的全部： 他的生活方式和他死去的方式。 |
| 24:18 So we are enquiring together what is death, why death is associated with sorrow. You are following all this? The speaker is not leading you, he is not persuading you. I am bored with telling you that! So what is death? You must take the whole of it, not just dying. You must take the being born, living 50, 40 or 60, 70, 90, or going a little further on – you have to take the whole of it, not just: what is death? 25:26 That is rather a silly question to say: what is death? And then weep about it, or frightened about it, or worship it, as Christians do. The Indians, the former ancient Hindus, exploded all over Asia as Greece exploded over the Western world, and they had their theories, including Pythagoras and others, of reincarnation which we will talk about presently. | 24:18 所以我们正在一起探询 什么是死亡， 为什么「死亡」会和「痛苦」联系在一起？ 你们跟上所有这些了吗？ 演讲者并没有在引导你们，也没有在说服你们什么。 我很厌烦把答案告诉你们！ 所以什么是「死亡」？ 你必须要去考虑关于「死亡」的全部内容， 而不只是「临终时刻」。 你必须要考虑 从出生起， 然后生活50年、40年 或者 60年、70年、90年， 或者更久一点， 你必须要考虑关于它的全部内容， 而不只是：什么是「死亡」？ 25:26 这是一个相当愚蠢的问题， 如果你问：什么是死亡 然后为此而哭泣、害怕，或者崇拜它的话 ——就像基督徒所做的那样。 印度人，以前古代的印度教徒， 他们的思想引爆了整个亚洲世界 ——就像希腊思想引爆了西方世界一样—— 他们有着自己的理论， 包括毕达哥拉斯等等， 那就是「轮回转世」的思想 ——我们马上就会来探讨它。 |
| 26:12 So we have to consider not only what is continuity, what is ending, what is time and thought involved in this process, which means we have to enquire what is living, first, not what is dying – right? We are together in this. I won’t repeat that again. So what is living? What do we call living? From the moment we are born through the long period which we call life, living, what takes place there? Not just part of it, but the length of it. From childhood we have problems. The children sent to school, have a problem immediately: how to read, write, how to learn mathematics and later on chemistry, biology – that all becomes a problem. 27:49 They are educated in problems. These are all facts, not the speaker’s imagination. So our life from the beginning is a continuous problem, struggle, pain, anxiety, uncertainty, confusion, faith, belief, gods and the perpetual repetition of rituals – what is called religion, the worship of a symbol, and faith, belief, success, failure, sorrow, pain. All that is our living. An actual fact in which is included pleasure, sex, and all the rest of it. This is what we call living. Go to the office from 9 to 5, or factory 9 to 5, or enter a shop and sell books, clothes, food, and so on. 29:19 This is our daily monotonous, so-called disciplined life. Would you and I disagree about that? Or do we see it as a fact, not as descriptively accepting, but it is the actual fact of our life. Right, sirs? And we have not understood that. We have not gone into it and see if one can live totally differently. | 26:12 所以我们不仅要考虑什么是「延续」，什么是「结束」， 什么是「时间」和「思想」 ——它们都包含在这个过程中，而这就意味着 我们必须首先探询一下 什么是「生活」， 而非“什么是死亡”——对吧？ 我们要一起来探询它。 我就不再重申这一点了。 所以什么是「生活」？ 我们所谓的“生活”是什么呢？ 从我们出生的那一刻起，经历漫长的岁月 ——我们称其为“生活”，生命， 在此期间发生了什么呢？ ——不只是某个时间段，而是贯穿一生的生活。 从小时候开始，我们就有各种问题。 孩子们被送到学校去，然后他们立即就有了问题： 如何读书写字，如何学好数学， 之后还要学习化学、生物学， 所有这一切都变成了问题。 27:49 他们就是在问题中被教育长大的。 这些全都是事实， 它们并不是演讲者的想象。 所以我们的生活从一开始 就是连续不断的问题、斗争、 痛苦、焦虑、不确定、困惑、信念、信仰、 神明，以及永无休止地重复宗教仪式 ——而所谓的“宗教”， 它就是崇拜某个象征符号，以及信念、信仰、 成功、失败、苦难、痛苦。 所有这些东西就是我们的生活。 这是千真万确的事实， 其中还包括了快感、性爱、等等这些东西。 这就是我们所谓的“生活”。 去办公室上班，或者去工厂上班， 每天朝九晚五， 或者去商店当售货员： 卖书、卖衣服、卖食物等等。 29:19 这就是我们每天单调乏味的、 所谓的“遵纪守法”的生活。 你和我难道不同意它吗？ 还是说我们看到了它是一个事实？ 不是嘴上说说的接受， 它就是我们生活中千真万确的事实。 对吧，先生们？ 然而我们并没有理解这一点。 我们还没有去探究它，然后看看我们是否可以 去过一种截然不同的生活。 |
| 30:19 But there is always death. There is a very good Italian proverb but I won’t go into it, which says, ‘Everybody will die, I know. Perhaps I will too!’ | 30:19 然而「死亡」总是在那里。 有一句非常好的意大利谚语， 但我就不展开讲了，它是这样说的： “每个人都会死去，我知道。或许我也会死去！”（笑声） |
| 30:50 So first, what is it we have to grasp, understand, go into, resolve – life, the daily living, or the dying? And besides, why are we so terribly concerned about death? The speaker was walking once in the shaded road in India, and he heard a chant behind him as he was walking towards the sea. And there was a dead body being carried by two men, and his eldest son carrying the fire in front of him, in front of the body. That’s all, not all the fuss, and hearses, and flowers, and you know. 32:03 It was a simple thing and it was really rather beautiful. The son crying, and chanting in Sanskrit, walking towards the sea where he was going to be cremated. And the fuss the Western world makes about death, Rolls Royces, enormous amount of flowers, and so on. So what are we concerned with? Living or dying? Please, we are talking to each other. Which is most important for us to grapple with, put our teeth and our whole energy into it? | 30:50 所以，我们首先要领会、理解、探究和解决的是什么？ 是生活，日常生活呢，还是死亡？ 此外，为什么我们会如此极度地关心死亡？ 演讲者曾经在印度的一条林荫道上散步， 当他朝着海边走去的时候，他听到背后有一阵唱诵声。 有两个人抬着一具尸体， 而长子走在他前面，走在尸体前面，他捧着炉火。 仅此而已，没有所有那些繁文缛节， 什么灵车、鲜花，你懂的。 32:03 它（死亡）是一件很简单的事，它其实是很美的。 儿子在哭泣，并用梵文唱诵着， 他们朝着海边走去，尸体会在那里进行火化。 但西方世界会把「死亡」这件事搞得非常繁文缛节， 劳斯莱斯汽车，海量的鲜花，等等。 所以我们要关心的是什么？ 是生活还是死亡？ 请注意，我们正在彼此交谈。 对我们来说，最重要的是要努力去解决它， 为此采取行动，并投入我们全部的能量。 |
| 33:18 Talking about energy, there are those people who want to release energy – right? Part of it is acupuncture, part of it is various attempts to increase the energy that we have, and so on. What is energy? It took energy to come here, a great deal of energy – put up a tent, come in a car on a rainy, windy day, get all the things together to come here. That took a lot of energy. You may brush it off and say, ‘I will go’, but to decide to go, to come, to drive a car, to put up a tent, to sit here and listen. 34:27 That requires a great deal of energy. And we want more energy. We don’t know how to use our own energy. You have got plenty of energy when you want to do something. They have been to the Moon, all the technological energy that is demanded of everyone. It takes energy to talk, to think, to have sex, everything – life is energy – but we, through our self-interest, our specialisation, through our demand for success and fears and all that, we have restricted that energy. 35:41 We have made it so small, so particular, so minuscule. Sorry! And our brains have been narrowed down by specialisation – you know all the rest of it. So there is energy. When we understand ourselves that energy explodes, then you have tremendous passion, not just passion for something – the flower of passion which never withers. And that can only come when there is compassion. | 33:18 说到「能量」 有一些人，他们会想要释放自己的能量——对吧？ 其中一部分是针灸疗法， 还有一些是各种 提升我们能量的尝试，等等。 什么是「能量」？ 你们来到这里需要花费能量， 巨大的能量， 搭建起一个帐篷， 在一个下雨天、刮风日 开车过来， 准备好所有的东西，然后来到这里。 这需要花费大量的能量。 你也许不考虑这些东西，只是说“我会去的” ——然而决定去听演讲， 决定来这里，你就需要驾驶汽车，搭帐篷， 坐在这里然后聆听。 34:27 这需要很多的能量。 而我们想要更多的能量。 我们并不知道如何使用自己的能量。 当你想要做某件事情的时候， 你就会有很多很多的能量。 人类已经登上了月球， 所有那些专研科技领域的能量， 它需要每一个人的付出。 我们需要花费能量去讲话、思考、 做爱，等等一切事情， 生活就是能量，然而我们却经由利己主义、 专业化，经由我们对成功的需求， 以及恐惧等等而约束限制了这种能量。 35:41 我们已经把它变得如此渺小、 如此定向、如此微不足道。 不好意思！ 我们的大脑已经被专业化所限制了，被 你知道的，所有这类东西。 所以存在着「能量」。 当我们了解了自己以后， 这种能量就会爆发， 那时你就会拥有巨大的热情， 不只是对某个事物的激情， 而是拥有那朵热情之花， 这朵花永远不会凋谢。 而这只有当有了「慈悲」以后才会发生。 |
| 36:54 So what are we concerned most about – death or living? Living is, as we said, a series, a succession of conflict, struggle, pain, sorrow, and all the rest of it. This is not a gloomy picture. You can paint it more beautifully in colours, descriptively make it more attractive, but this is a fact. So shouldn’t we understand life first, the living, and then come to understand what is death? You understand? Not the other way round. What will you give, not financially, what will you give to find out how, in what manner, one can live totally differently? 38:13 not pursue some other quacky nonsense: a new painting, new poems, new dances, and all the rest of that immature, childish stuff. And the speaker is not intolerant, he just sees all this going on. So can we, realising what our life is, the actual life of existence on this earth, bring about a mutation – not a change – complete change, reversal, whatever it is, the thing that one has lived, is living, is completely ended and something new can take place? | 36:54 所以我们最关心的应该是什么 ——是「死亡」还是「生活」？ 就如我们所说：生活是一系列的、一连串的冲突、 斗争、痛苦、悲伤、等等。 这并不是一幅令人沮丧的画面。 你可以用各种色彩将其描绘得更加美丽， 用语言文字将其讲述得更吸引人， 但这就是事实。 所以我们难道不应该先了解生活、了解生命， 然后再去了解 什么是死亡吗？ 你们理解了吗？ 而不是反过来。 你会为此付出什么呢——不是金钱上的付出—— 而是你愿意付出什么来发现 如何去过截然不同的生活， 以及我们要以怎样的方式去过截然不同的生活？ 38:13 不是去追求某些夸夸其谈的荒谬之物： 新型的绘画、新型的诗歌、 新型的舞蹈，以及所有这类不成熟的、幼稚的东西。 演讲者这么说并不是偏狭， 他只是看到了所有这些正在发生的事情。 所以，在意识到了我们的生活是什么，意识到了 我们在这个世界上实际的生活状况以后，我们能否带来一次突变 ——不是改变——而是彻底的转变， 反转，无论它是什么， 让那些我们经历过的或正在经历的东西 彻底结束，由此某种新的事物才会发生？ |
| 39:19 Therefore we have to enquire together into what is continuity, what is it that continues in our life, living? Memory, is it? Continuity, a series of successions of events, experiences, the ‘me’, the persona, the ego, is a bundle of memories. One mightn’t like that idea. One wants something more than mere memories, and wanting more, something beyond memories, is another formation of memories – right? One is not satisfied with this memory but wants some other memory. So this continuation, which we call living, is a series and successions of events, memories, experience – all that bundle is me, is you. 40:52 And continuity is that which is known. How scared we are of something ending you to all that! One has lived a long life of experience, knowledge, one has travelled all over the place – God knows why, but one has – and you talk, judge, evaluate, you know – all that. And we never enquire what is continuity and what is ending. Ending voluntarily something that you hold dear – you understand my question? Are we asking each other that question? Suppose, one is greatly attached to a person, to a conclusion, that conclusion, however historical, dialectical, Marxist, Leninist, blah, blah, all that, one is attached to all that like a limpet. 42:22 Can one voluntarily, easily, let go? That is what death means. You don’t argue with death. You don’t say, ‘Please, give me another couple of days, so that I can do everything orderly’. It is there at your door. | 39:19 所以我们必须要来一起探询一下 什么是「延续」？ 那个在我们生命里、在我们生活中延续的东西是什么？ 它就是「记忆」，对吧？ 延续，一系列连续不断的事件、经验， 那个“我”、那个角色、那个自我 ——他就是一大堆的记忆。 我们可能并不喜欢这个观点。 我们想要某种并非仅仅只是「记忆」的东西， 我们想要某种超越记忆的东西 ——然而它也只是记忆的另一种形态——对吧？ 我们并不满足于这种「记忆」，而是想要别的记忆。 所以这种我们称之为“生活”的「延续」， 它就是一系列连续不断的事件、 记忆、经验，而这一大堆东西就是“我”，就是“你”。 40:52 而「延续」就是已知的事物。 我们是多么害怕某个东西会结束掉这一切！ 你活了很多年，积累了各种经验、知识， 你旅行各地——天知道为什么你要旅行， 但你已经旅行了各个地方， 然后你谈话、判断、评价， 你知道所有这些事情。 然而我们却从来没有去探询过什么是「延续」、 什么是「结束」。 去自愿主动地结束某个 你所珍视的东西——你们理解我的问题吗？ 我们正在互相询问这个问题吗？ 假设有个人无比地执著于某个人、某个结论， 无论这个结论多么符合历史、多么辩证思维， 马克思主义、列宁主义， 诸如此类的东西，这个人像帽贝一样地 依附于所有这些东西。 42:22 那么他可以主动自愿地、轻松自如地放弃它们吗？ 这才是「死亡」的含义。 你不可能和「死亡」去争论什么。 你不可能说，“请让我再多活几天吧， 这样我就可以把一切事情安排得井井有条了”， 死亡已经来到你家门口了。 |
| 42:50 So can one understand continuity and give to that continuity an end? You understand my question? To us attachment means a great deal. It is the most satisfying common experience – to be attached to the earth, to certain beliefs, certain dogmas, certain rituals, certain habits, and so on. One is greatly attached to a house, to furniture, to a habit. Can one become aware of it and end it completely in that awareness? Not the day after tomorrow, but now as we are sitting here, becoming aware of all that: the explanations, the reality, not the description, but the fact of this constant demand for continuity. 44:26 Sexual continuity, the continuity of possessions, continuity of family, continuity of one’s deep experiences, all that coming to an instant end. That is death. So not wait for death when you are sixty, eighty, ninety, but end it each day, live with death. Don’t be... Sir, the speaker is saying something tremendous involved in this, not just a lot of words put together. To live with something, a life that is constantly ending every day, every minute, so there is no continuity of the past, or the future. 45:49 There is only this ending which is death. And to live that way. Go on, sirs. Don’t think about it, see the truth of it. Thought is not – it can create, put together a lot of things, but thought cannot deceive death. So if one realises the immense significance of living with that ending, which is called death, in our daily life, then there is real transformation, real mutation even in the brain cells because the brain cells carry all our memories, all the past, and all the rest of it. 47:00 So can we live that way? Not pretend, not ‘I must make an effort’ – you don’t make an effort to die! Unless you jump out of the 18th floor and you say, ‘So far, so good’. | 42:50 所以我们能否理解这种「延续」， 然后让这种「延续」终结呢？ 你们明白我的问题吗？ 对我们来说，「执著」意义重大。 它是一种最令人满足的、人类共同的经验： 去执著于这个世界， 执著于特定的信仰、 特定的教条、特定的宗教仪式、 特定的习惯，等等。 我们会非常执著于自己的房子、家具和习惯。 那么我们能否觉察到它， 然后在这种觉察中彻底地结束它呢？ 不是在后天才结束它， 而是此刻当我们坐在这里的时候， 就去觉察到所有这一切：那些解释、事实真相， 不是关于事实的描述，而是“我们不断渴求延续”的事实。 44:26 性爱的延续、财产的延续、家族的延续， 某人深度经验的延续， 所有这一切瞬间结束了。 这才是「死亡」。 所以，不要去等待「死亡」 ——一直等到你六十岁、八十岁、九十岁， 而是每天都去结束它， 与「死亡」共同生活。 请你们不要 先生，演讲者的话语中蕴含着意义重大的东西， 它不只是一大堆文字词语拼凑在一起。 而是要和某个东西生活在一起，在这种生活中， 每一天都在不断结束着， 每一分钟都在不断结束着， 所以便不会有「过去」的延续或者「未来」。 45:49 而只有这种结束——也就是「死亡」。 你要这样子去生活。 继续下去，先生们。 不要去思考它，而是要看到它的事实真相。 思想并不是…… ——思想可以去创造、 拼凑出很多东西，但思想是无法去欺骗「死亡」的。 所以如果我们意识到了在日常生活中 与这种被称为「死亡」的“结束”共同生活的巨大意义， 那么我们就会有真正的转变、真正的突变 ——甚至是脑细胞的突变， 因为大脑细胞携带着我们所有的记忆， 所有的过去，等等这些东西。 47:00 所以我们能否这样子生活？ 不要去假装，不要说“我必须要做出努力” ——你不会做出什么努力去死！ 除非你从18楼跳下，然后说： “到目前为止 一切都好”（笑声） |
| 47:32 And also we should talk about together what is religion, what is the nature of the brain that lives religiously. Religion has become very important in our lives. You may be atheists, you may say, ‘Well, it is all nonsense, some stupid priest preaching about some nonsense’. You may shun all that, but yet, there is this inward demand, inward saying: ‘After all, what is all this about – this living and dying, this pain, this anxiety – what is it all about?’ ‘Who created it? God? Nature? The first cell? ’ and so on. So religion is concerned not with all the rubbish, circus that is going on, whether in Rome, or in England, or in Benares in India, or in the Buddhist countries; it is all put together by thought and therefore very, very, very limited. 49:14 So we have to ask: what is religion and creation? What is creation? Is there a difference between creation and invention? We were talking the other day with an excellent doctor, really first-class doctor, not a doctor who makes money, but good doctor with a good brain. He was saying there is a certain part of the brain that can always be activated. I may be misrepresenting – careful, don’t accept entirely what the speaker is saying about that. There is a certain part of the brain – he mentioned some technical word which I didn’t know – that, as one gets ill, that gets a little bit dull, as one gets older, that gets still more dull. 50:55 And whether that inner part of the brain can be revived, made alive – right? Don’t accept it. Don’t go to sleep. We were talking about it – I won’t go into it now because this is too complex. So what is invention and what is creation? Religion is concerned with this. And can the brain, which is conditioned, shaped, moulded by all kinds of things: community, what you read, what you hear, all the priests that have been promulgating some ideas, some worship, some gods – all that has conditioned our brain. Can our brain, yours and our brain, can that brain ever understand what is creation? 52:24 Or it is based fundamentally on knowledge, which is experience, gathering, learning, memorising, and so on. Can that brain understand that which is not measurable? You understand? Are we somewhat together in this? | 47:32 而我们同样也应该一起来讨论一下 什么是宗教， 那种过着宗教性生活的大脑的本质是什么。 宗教在我们的生活中已经变得非常重要。 你也许是无神论者，你也许会说， “噢，这一切都是扯淡， 是某个愚蠢的牧师在宣讲某些荒谬的东西。 ” 你或许会回避所有这些东西， 但你内心还是会有这种需求，你的内心还是会说： “这一切究竟是怎么回事？ ” “生活和死亡，这种痛苦、焦虑，这一切究竟是怎么回事？ ” “是谁创造出了它？ 上帝吗？自然吗？还是「原初细胞」？”等等。 而宗教所关心的并不是所有这些垃圾和宗教闹剧 ——这些闹剧正在罗马、英国、印度的贝拿勒斯， 或者那些信佛教的国家发生着， 它们全都是思想拼凑出来的东西， 因此它们是非常非常局限的。 49:14 所以我们必须要问一下： 什么是「宗教」，什么是「创造」？ 什么是「创造」呢？ 「创造」和「发明」是否有所区别？ 我们前几天和一位杰出的医生进行了一番对话 ——他是真正一流的医生， 不是那种只知道赚钱的医生， 而是一位有着聪明头脑的优秀医生。 他告诉我们说：大脑中有某一个部分 它总是可以被激活。 我或许描述有误，所以你们要小心， 不要完全接受演讲者对它的说法。 大脑中有某一个部分 ——然后他提到了某个专业术语， 我不知道这个术语，那就是当一个人生病了， 大脑的这个部分就会变得稍微迟钝一点， 而当一个人年纪越来越大， 这个部分也会变得愈发迟钝。 50:55 那么，大脑的这个内在的部分是否可以被唤醒， 使之再度活跃起来呢——对吧？ 不要接受这种说法。 也不要昏昏欲睡。 我们正在讨论它——我现在就不深入下去了， 因为它太复杂了。 所以，什么是「发明」？ 什么是「创造」？ 宗教所关心的就是这个。 大脑已经被各种事物所制约、塑造、 和定型了——包括你所身处于的社区、 你所读的东西，你所听到的东西， 所有那些牧师一直在传播宣扬的观念， 某种崇拜、某些神明， 所有这些都制约了我们的大脑。 而我们的大脑——你的大脑和 我们的大脑，这个大脑是否可能了解 什么是「创造」？ 52:24 还是说：大脑从根本上来说是建立在知识之上的？ 知识就是经验、收集、学习、记忆等等。 而这个大脑能否理解那个「不可度量的事物」？ 你们理解了吗？ 我们是不是多多少少都理解了它？ |
| 52:59 We measure. Right? We measure, which means compare, judge, evaluate; we are always comparing ourself with something else. Comparing one painter against another painter, one poem against another poem, or Beethoven against Bach, and so on, Mozart – let me include Mozart in it. So is invention – is not invention based on knowledge? Please, we are talking about it together. If there is no knowledge, there is no invention. We must have a background of knowledge to find something new – is that creation? Or is creation something totally out of time and thought? 54:34 This has been one of the problems, probably the greatest problem of a religious brain, religious quality. We will never use the word ‘meditation’ any more. I hope you don’t mind. That word implies also measurement in Sanskrit as well as in acknowledged dictionaries. Measurement. Not only measurement of cloth and all the material things, but also measuring ourselves against something. Measurement was invented by the Greeks and probably before them, and without measurement there is no technological world. And we carry on that same principle in ourselves, we are always measuring how we are today, and hope tomorrow will be the same or wish it to be different. 55:54 It is always comparing, judging, evaluating. And the word, that word which has become so mutilated by the gurus who have brought various forms of meditation, we won’t discuss that word any more because it has become a stupid word. Sitting in a certain posture, breathing in a certain way, concentrating, and all that – making tremendous effort to achieve what? Some carrot before the donkey? | 52:59 我们会去度量——是吧？ 我们会去度量，这意味着我们会去比较、判断、评估， 我们总是在拿自己和某些其他东西作比较。 拿这个画家和另一个画家作比较， 拿这首诗和另一首诗作比较， 或者拿贝多芬和巴赫等人作比较，还有莫扎特， 莫扎特也要算进去。 所以，「发明」难道不就是建立在知识之上的吗？ 请注意，我们正在一起谈论它。 如果没有了知识，也就不会有「发明」了。 我们必须要有一个知识的背景， 才能发现某种新事物， 然而它是「创造」吗？ 还是说「创造」是某种完全脱离时间和思想的东西？ 54:34 这一直以来都是一个宗教性头脑，具有宗教品质的头脑 所思考的问题之一 ——并且可能是最重大的问题。 我们决不会再使用「冥想」这个词了。 我希望你们不要介意。 「冥想」这个词在梵文中 以及人们公认的辞典中， 它同样也意味着“量度”。 量度。 不仅仅是测量布料和所有物质事物， 同样也包括衡量我们自己，然后去和某个事物作比较。 量度是由希腊人所发明的，可能还要更早一些， 而没有量度，就不会有科学技术的世界。 而我们将同样的法则应用在了我们自己身上， 我们总是在度量，我们今天是怎样的， 然后希望明天能继续这样，或者希望变得不同。 55:54 总是存在着比较、判断、评估。 而「冥想」这个词， 这个词已经被那些古鲁彻底毁掉了， 他们带来了各种形式的“冥想”， 我们就不再讨论这个词了， 因为它已经变成了一个愚蠢的词语。 以特定的姿势打坐，以特定的方式呼吸， 集中注意力，等等 ——作出巨大的努力，去达到什么呢？ 在驴子面前摆一些胡萝卜吗？ |
| 56:51 So we should be concerned with not how to make the brain still – that is fairly easy. But to be concerned with total attention, not attention to or about something; the quality of attention, which is different from concentration, entirely different. Concentration is effort, focusing on one thing or several things, which becomes a habit like the pilots in the air. So is it possible to be attentive? And then in that there is no hypocrisy, no pretensions – you are attentive. And in attention there is complete silence, when you attend. And in that attention there is no border, it is attending. There is not, ‘I am attending’, there is only attention. Please, consider, take counsels together about this. | 56:51 所以，我们应当关心的并不是如何让大脑安静下来 ——这是相当容易的事情—— 我们要关心的是那种「全然的注意」， 不是去注意某个东西，或者关注某些东西， 而是拥有那种「注意」的品质， 它和「专注」有所不同，可以说是截然不同。 「专注」是一种努力，将注意力集中在某个东西上， 或者若干个东西上，它会变成一种习惯 ——就像天空中的飞行员一样。 所以我们是否可能保持「注意」呢？ 那时在那种「注意」中就不会有虚伪和假装 ——因为你在留心注意着一切。 在「注意」中就有着全然的寂静——当你保持注意的时候。 在那种「注意」中是没有边界的， 它就是持续不断的注意。 并不存在什么“我正在注意着”， 存在的只有「注意」。 请思考一下，让我们一起来商议一下它。 |
| 59:05 So what is creation? Not the first cell, nor how we’ve evolved, and all that. We have said God created all this. On the contrary, we have made God our image out of what we are, we have made that poor chap up there! We have given him all the qualities which we lack – mercy, charity, love, omnipresence, intelligence, and all the rest of that business. What is creation? Can the brain, which is the centre of all our nerves, all our activity, all our existence, however small it is, can that brain understand the immensity of creation? 1:00:24 Or there is something beyond the brain. Now, careful, please, don’t accept anything the speaker is saying. That is the first thing one has to learn – never accept anything so-called spiritual. That’s sheer nonsense. There is no spiritual authority. The authority of a doctor, scientist – that is a different matter. The policeman has authority, especially in Switzerland! Tremendous! We were caught in it once! Is the brain capable of really seeing that which is not measurable? We can talk about it, we can invent it, we can say there is the immeasurable – all that means a lot of words. 1:01:52 But we are asking a different question altogether: can the brain, which is made up of time, memory, thought, experience, all the rest of it, can that brain ever understand that which is limitless? You understand my question? It is really... Or there is something else, which is the mind, not the brain. Don’t invent, then we are lost. We are asking each other: is there something which we will call the mind for the moment – we may change the word – is there a mind which is not the brain? Is there such a thing which alone can see that which is immense? 1:03:03 And then that mind can communicate to the brain, but the brain cannot communicate to it? You have understood? We are asking each other. The brain as we know has been made very small, though it has got immense capacity. The computer is something extraordinary. It is going to probably take over our lives, that is probably the new industry. The computer will shape our lives. It is already doing it quietly, slowly, we are unaware of it. We have talked to a great many of these experts, computer experts who are building it. They are not concerned with what happens to the human brain. 1:04:23 You understand my question? They are concerned with creating it. Ah, not creating, building it – that’s a better word. When the computer takes over our lives what happens to our brains? They are better, far quicker, so rapid, in a second they will tell you a thousand memories. So when they take over what is going to happen to our brains? Gradually wither? Or be thoroughly employed in amusement? In entertainment? Please, face all this, for God’s sake, this is happening! All the long sports record on the television, it is getting longer and longer. 1:05:34 They spend ten minutes over cricket and two minutes over what is happening in South Africa. So the entertainment industry is taking over. Please, face all this. And religious entertainment that has taken over, too. So we are being entertained all the time. And we treat meeting here as part of that. I assure you it is not. It is terribly serious, all this. | 59:05 所以，什么是「创造」？ 不是什么「原初细胞」， 也不是我们如何一步步进化的，等等这些。 我们曾经说过：是上帝创造了一切万物。 然而恰恰相反，是我们把上帝变成了我们的意象， 我们经由自己的模样 创造出了那个可怜的家伙，然后把他放在那里！ 我们赋予了他所有我们所缺乏的品质——仁慈、慈善、 爱、无所不在、智慧，等等这一切。 什么是「创造」？ 大脑就是我们所有神经、 所有活动、所有存在的中心 ——不管这个存在是多么渺小狭隘 那么这个大脑可以了解 那个无限巨大的「创造」吗？ 1:00:24 还是说：存在着某种超越大脑的事物。 现在，请你们要小心一点， 不要接受任何演讲者所说的东西。 这是我们必须要学会的第一件事情， 那就是永远不要接受任何所谓的“灵性教导”。 那些都是纯粹的胡扯。 因为并不存在什么灵性上的权威。 至于说医生的权威、科学家的权威， 那又是另一回事了。 警察拥有权威——尤其是在瑞士！ （笑声） 极大的权威！ 我们曾经被抓过一次！ 那么大脑真的能够看到那个不可度量的事物吗？ 我们可以去谈论它，我们可以发明出这个东西， 我们可以说存在着这种不可度量的事物 ——然而这一切只是一大堆词汇。 1:01:52 而我们正在问的是一个截然不同的问题： 大脑是由时间、记忆、思想、经验等等所组成的， 那么这个大脑是否可能了解那个无限的事物呢？ 你们理解我的问题吗？ 它真的非常 还是说 存在着某个别的东西： 它是「心灵」，而不是大脑。 不要去发明什么东西，那样我们就迷失了。 我们正在询问彼此： 是否存在着某种我们可以称之为“心灵”的东西？ ——我们暂时先这么称呼它，之后可能再改换别的词。 是否存在着一个不同于大脑的「心灵」呢？ 是否存在着这样一个东西 ——唯有它才能够看到那个无限巨大的事物？ 1:03:03 那时这个「心灵」就可以与大脑沟通交流， 但大脑却无法与之交流沟通？ 你们理解了吗？ 我们正在互相询问对方。 我们所知道的“大脑”已经被弄得非常狭隘渺小了 ——尽管它拥有巨大的能力。 电脑是某种非凡的事物。 它很可能会接管我们的生活， 它或许会成为一个全新的产业。 电脑将会塑造我们的生活。 它目前已经在悄悄地、慢慢地做这件事了， 只是我们没有觉察到。 我们曾经和很多专家聊过， 那些电脑专家——他们在制造电脑。 他们并不关心人类的大脑会发生什么。 1:04:23 你们理解我的问题吗？ 他们关心的是创造出电脑， 啊，不是创造出电脑，是制造电脑 ——“制造”才是一个更恰当的词。 当电脑接管了我们的生活后， 我们的大脑会发生什么呢？ 电脑更为强大，反应远远更为迅速， 它是如此快速， 只要一秒钟，它们就可以告诉你上千条记忆内容。 所以，当它们接管了以后， 我们的大脑将会发生什么呢？ 它会逐渐萎缩吗？ 或者会彻底地沉迷于娱乐中？ 沉迷于娱乐消遣中？ 看在上帝的份上，请面对这一切， 这样的事正在发生着！ 电视上播放的所有体育节目 时间都很长， 并且这些节目正在变得越来越长。 1:05:34 人们会花费十分钟在板球比赛上， 再花两分钟看看南非正在发生的事情。 所以娱乐业正在接管我们的生活。 请直面这一切。 而那些“宗教娱乐”，它也接管了我们的生活。 所以我们一直在被娱乐着。 而我们会把这里的聚会也当成是娱乐的一部分。 但我向你们保证它并不是。 这里的一切都是无比严肃认真的。 |
| 1:06:37 So can the brain ever understand the universe? They can say Venus is so much gas, so much metal, etc., etc., etc., but the description, the quality, the taste of it is not Venus, the beauty of it, the extraordinary quietness of it. And can our brain, to understand all that immensity, be quiet? not everlastingly chattering, chattering, chattering. Can that brain become extraordinarily simple and therefore extraordinarily subtle? And if that brain is capable of that subtleness, that immense sense of great simplicity of time and thought, and all the rest of it, then perhaps that mind, which is not the brain, can communicate to it. 1:07:59 Then the brain cannot communicate to that, obviously. And we are doing our very best to communicate with that, doing all kinds of tricks, all forms of control, sacrifice, taking vows, taking... Right? And that thing can never – one can never touch it. And the religious mind, religious brain always has the background of great silence and solitude. | 1:06:37 所以大脑是否可能了解这个宇宙？ 人们可以说金星是由如此多样化的气体、 多样化的金属等等所组成的， 但是关于它的描述、它的特征、它的味道， 这些都不是金星， 它们不是金星的美，不是金星那非凡的宁静。 而在了解了这种巨大无限之后， 我们的大脑能否安静下来？ 不再永无休止地喋喋不休、喋喋不休了。 这个大脑能否变得极其简单， 从而能够极度的微妙敏锐？ 而如果那个大脑能够如此微妙敏锐， 强烈地感知到 时间和思想等等的惊人的简单性， 那么或许那个「心灵」——心灵并非大脑—— 就能够与大脑沟通交流了。 1:07:59 但那时大脑是无法与心灵沟通交流的 ——这是显而易见的。 然而我们却在尽最大努力与心灵沟通交流， 我们耍了各种花招技巧， 各种形式的控制、献祭、发誓，等等，对吧？ 然而那个东西却永远无法…… ——我们却永远无法触及它。 而宗教心灵、宗教大脑， 它总是有着巨大的寂静与独处作为其背景。 |
| 1:08:55 We have finished. Will you kindly get up so that I can get up too? | 1:08:55 我们就到此为止吧。 请你们站起来吧， 这样我也可以站起来了？ |
