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BR78T2 - 人如何才能拥有彻底的秩序？
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| K: May we continue with what we were talking about yesterday morning? Before we go into that may I point out that one should have quite a bit of scepticism doubt, not accepting what the speaker is saying but questioning, investigating, enquiring into what he is saying or what we are thinking ourselves if there is any truth, if there is any falsehood or if what is being said is factual which is applicable to daily life. So if one merely accepts words, as most of us do we are collectors of words and phrases and thereby we miss a great deal. So what we are talking about is that self-knowledge, that is knowing oneself is the greatest importance not according to some psychologist analyst or according to the speaker but knowing oneself actually as one is. Not denying nor accepting what is but observing looking into oneself very, very deeply. And whether what you find in yourself not according to somebody else but actually for yourself what you see and what you perceive in your actions, in your reactions and so on to be aware of that to know oneself. Knowing oneself implies, doesn't it not having known and recognising 'what is'. That is, to discover oneself anew each time not according to a remembrance of something that you have seen before in yourself and recognise it, and keep on recognising all the time. I hope I am making this clear. That is, I want to know myself because if I don't know myself there is no possibility of right action, right behaviour or I have no foundation for any clarity. One can deceive so immensely live in a kind of illusory world, a make-belief world but to know oneself so completely frees the mind from all its entanglements from all its worries its everlasting chattering and so on. | 克：我们继续 昨天上午的讨论，好吗？ 在这之前， 请允许我指出， 一个人要有 相当的怀疑精神， 怀疑、不接受 讲话者所说的内容， 质疑、研究、探询 他所说的 或者我们自己所想的 是不是真实， 是否存在任何错误， 或者所说的是否 切合实际， 可以应用到 日常生活中。 因为如果一个人只是接受词句， 如我们多数人那样， 我们是话语的收集者， 如果那样，我们 就会错过太多东西。 所以我们要讨论的是 自我了解、对自己的认识， 是至关重要的， 这种了解不是依照 什么心理学家、 精神分析家 或讲话者， 而是如实地了解 自己的事实。 不是拒绝 也不是接受事实， 而是非常深入地观察自己、 了解自己。 而且，如果你在自己身上 发现了什么， 不是依照别的什么人， 而是你在自己的行动、 自己的反应等等之中， 实际看到和了解到了什么， 去觉察那些， 去了解自己。 了解自己并不意味着 已经知道 并认出“本然”，对吗？ 而是，每次 重新发现自己， 不是根据 过去在自己身上看到过 什么的记忆， 然后认出来， 并一直重复“认出来”。 我希望我表达清楚了。 也就是说，我想 了解我自己， 因为如果我 不了解自己， 就不可能有正确的行动、 正确的行为， 或者我就没有 获得任何清明的 基础。 人有自欺欺人的无限可能， 生活在一个虚幻的世界、 一个假装的世界里， 但完全了解自己 能把心灵 从它所有的纠缠、 它所有的担忧、 它无休止的喋喋不休，等等 之中解放出来。 |
| In that enquiry, we were saying yesterday we are driven by language. Language uses us rather than we use language. We went into that fairly thoroughly yesterday. And also we said that the speaker not being here you yourself are speaking to yourself and listening to yourself to find out what exactly is going on within yourself within the skin, within the psychological area of yourself. We know very well what is happening around us at least if you are fairly well informed but very few of us know exactly where we are what our reactions are and if it is possible to go beyond them. | 在昨天的探讨中， 我们说 我们被语言所驱使。 语言利用我们， 而不是我们利用语言。 我们昨天非常 深入地探讨了那一点。 并且我们说， 演讲者并不在这里， 你在与自己对话， 并且聆听自己， 以发现 在你内心、在你肌肤之下， 你自己的心理领域中 到底发生着什么事情。 我们非常清楚 我们周围正在发生的事情， 至少我们消息相当灵通， 但我们中极少有人确切 知道我们处在什么状态， 我们的反应是什么， 以及我们是否能够超越那些反应。 |
| And also we were saying yesterday that the basic root of fear in which most of us live, is time. Chronological time as yesterday, today and tomorrow and also the whole movement of thought. Those are the two factors which bring about fear. And the other factor in that is remembrance. The remembrance of a past fear and holding on to that remembrance and projecting a future fear. We were talking about that yesterday. So if we may we would like to go into further factors of ourselves. | 并且我们昨天也说到， 我们多数人生活在其中 的恐惧，其根源是时间。 有昨天、今天和明天 这种钟表上的时间， 还有整个思想的运动。 它们是带来恐惧 的两个因素。 其中的另外一个因素 是记忆。 对过去一次 恐惧的记忆 以及对那个记忆 的抱守， 投射出未来的恐惧。 我们昨天谈到了这些。 如果可以，我们 再进一步深入探讨 我们自身的因素。 |
| Most of us, psychologically, live in disorder. I do not know if you are not aware of it. We are driven by, not only language but also by a great many pressures from outside: economic, social, political, national the religious beliefs and so on. But psychologically the greatest pressure is desire with most of us. As we said yesterday please we are communicating with each other. You are not merely listening to the person who is talking who is not at all important. What is said is important, not the person. It is like if you have a telephone you don't give great importance to the telephone you keep it clean but what is said through the telephone becomes all important. Similarly the person who is speaking here is not at all important. I would like to point this out over and over again: the person is not important at all. But what is said is important. So your admiration for the person or your dislike of the person, or your this, that all that nonsense is of very little importance. You don't, if you have a good telephone you don't smash it, you keep it clean, you respect it. But the telephone itself is of no value at all but what is said through the telephone becomes significant. Similarly here the person is not important. Have you understood that clearly and definitely? | 在心理层面，我们多数人 都生活在失序中。 我不知道 你是不是还没意识到这点。 我们不仅被语言驱使， 也被来自外界的 许许多多的压力所驱使： 经济的、社会的、 政治的、国家的， 还有宗教信仰， 等等。 但对我们多数人而言， 心理上最大的压力 是欲望。 像我们昨天说的， 请记住 我们是在相互交流。 你不是仅仅在聆听 那个讲话的人， 他完全不重要。 重要的是他所说的话， 而不是那个人。 就像你有一部电话， 你无需太看重 那部电话， 你让它保持清洁， 而通过电话 讲出的话才是 至关重要的。 同样， 那个在这儿讲话的人 完全不重要。 我要不断地 指出这一点： 那个讲话的人 完全不重要。 而他所说的话很重要。 所以你对 那个人的赞赏 或者对他的厌恶， 或者你的这个、那个， 所有这些无稽之谈 都毫不重要。 如果你有 一部漂亮的电话， 你不会把它摔碎， 你让它保持清洁，你尊重它。 但话机本身 完全没有价值， 而通过电话所说的话 就变得重要。 相似地，这里的这个人 并不重要。 你对这点确实非常清楚了吗？ |
| We are saying we live in disorder, psychologically. We may have an orderly room, do proper exercises do so-called yoga - I won't go into that word what it means, how it began and all the rest of it it is not the moment. But we keep order outwardly, apparently but there is disorder, astonishing disorder in the world. Perhaps that disorder is brought about by each one's psychological disorder. Disorder means contradiction in oneself thinking one thing, doing another saying one thing and do the opposite to what you have said or being uncertain, not clear, contradictory, and so on. All that indicates disorder. And also where there is contradiction there must be effort, where there is division there must be conflict and so on. All that is a state of disorder in which we live. That is an obvious fact. | 我们说我们心理领域的 生活处于失序中。 我们也许拥有一个有序的房间， 进行适当的锻炼， 做所谓的瑜伽—— 我不深入探讨那个词， 它的含义是什么，怎样开始 以及诸如此类的东西， 现在不是讨论这个的时候。 我们保持外在的秩序， 显然如此， 但世界上 存在着惊人的失序。 也许那种失序是由 每个人心理上的 失序带来的。 失序意味着 一个人内心冲突， 想着一件事， 却做另一件事， 说着一回事，却 做着与之相反的事情， 或者不确定、不清楚、 矛盾，等等。 所有这一切都表明了失序。 并且哪里有冲突， 哪里就必然有努力， 哪里有分离， 哪里就必然有冲突，等等。 所有这些就是我们 生活在其中的失序状态。 这是一个非常明显的事实。 |
| And to bring about order psychologically what is one to do? I hope you are challenging yourself and not accepting my challenge. Knowing consciously aware that one is in disorder psychologically, what is one to do? How is one to bring about order? Because without order psychologically as well as outwardly one must live in chaos as the world is becoming more and more chaotic destructive, violent which shows a great deal of disorder in the world. And perhaps that disorder is projected by each one of us because we live in disorder. | 而要带来 心理上的秩序， 你该怎么办？ 我希望你挑战自己， 而不是接受我的挑战。 清楚地知道、 意识到自己心理上处于失序中， 然后你要怎么办？ 你怎样才能带来秩序？ 因为如果没有 心理上和外在的秩序， 你必定生活在混乱中， 就像世界正变得 越来越混乱、 有破坏力、暴力， 这些都显示出世界的 严重失序。 而那种失序可能 是我们每个人投射出来的， 因为我们生活在失序中。 |
| So we are asking: how is one to have complete, total order in oneself is that possible? Where there is order there is tremendous energy. Where there is disorder there is the dissipation of energy wastage of energy. So we are going to enquire together I am not enquiring into myself but together we are enquiring, exploring into this question: what is order and can there be order without understanding disorder? So we are enquiring together to find out this actual state, the fact that we live in disorder is that a fact, not a verbal description of the disorder? The word is not the thing. The description of the disorder is not actual disorder. The description of a mountain however beautifully painted, the beauty of the valley the light, the snow, the lines against the sky the whole sense of dignity, beauty of that mountain can be described most beautifully but the description is not the actual fact. For most of us description is sufficient. And so we are caught in the description not with the actual fact. So when we are asking: what is disorder? is that an idea of what you think should be order and in comparison with what you think should be order there is disorder, which again is total disorder. I hope you are following all this. So we are going to find out what is disorder and having an insight a quick perception of the whole structure of disorder then out of that comes order. That order is not according to a pattern according to a blueprint, according to some sage or some philosopher, or some religious quack. And most religious priests and hierarchy and all the rest of it are super quacks. Even the new pope, I hope. (Laughter) | 所以我们要问： 人的内心要怎样才能 拥有彻底而完整的秩序， 这可能吗？ 哪里有秩序， 哪里就有巨大的活力。 哪里存在失序， 哪里就存在能量的耗散 和能量的浪费。 所以我们要一起探询， 我不是在探索我自己， 而是我们 一起探询， 探讨这个问题： 什么是秩序？ 如果不理解失序， 能有秩序吗？ 所以我们要一起 去探询，去发现 实际的状况， 即我们生活在失序中这个事实， 这是不是一个事实， 而不是对失序的语言描述？ 词语并不是事情本身。 对失序的描述 并不是实际的失序。 对一座山的描述， 不管描绘得多么美， 山谷的美丽， 光线、积雪， 映衬在天空上的线条， 强烈的庄严感， 山峰的美 能被描述得无比动人， 但描述并不是事实本身。 对我们多数人来说 描述就足够了。 所以我们被困在描述中， 而没有与真切的事实共处。 所以当我们问： 什么是失序？ 那是一个你认为 秩序应该是什么的想法吗？ 与你所认为应有的秩序相比， 失序确实存在，而这再次 成为彻底的失序。 我希望你理解了这些。 所以我们要去发现 什么是失序， 并且拥有一种洞察力， 一种对失序整个结构 的即时理解， 从中就会产生秩序。 那种秩序 不是按照某种模式、 某个蓝图， 也不是依照某个圣人、 某个哲学家， 或某个宗教庸医而来。 而多数的宗教牧师 和层级体系 以及诸如此类的一切， 都是超级庸医。 甚至那个新教皇， 我希望。（笑声） |
| So (laughs) So, are we aware first that we live in disorder? Not the definition of that word but the actual fact of contradiction of division me and mine and you and yours we and they and all that division that goes on within ourselves the constant conflict. All that indicates disorder. And how do you observe that disorder? Say for example, as we took yesterday attachment in any form is a factor of disorder and also a factor, as we pointed out yesterday as we discovered yesterday a part of fear. So attachment to a person, to an idea, to a conclusion, to a past memory to a piece of furniture and so on and so on does breed disorder. Do we see that fact? | 所以（笑） 所以，首先我们认识到 我们生活在失序中了吗？ 不是对那个词的定义， 而是冲突、分裂的 事实， 我和我的 与你和你的、 我们和他们，以及 我们自身中发生的所有分裂， 那种持续的冲突。 所有这些都表明存在失序。 而你怎样去观察 这种失序？ 举例说， 像我们昨天举的例子， 任何形式的依赖 都是失序的一个因素， 也是恐惧的一个因素， 就像我们昨天所指出的， 就像我们昨天发现的那样， 也是恐惧的一部分。 所以对 一个人、一个想法、一个结论、 一个过去的记忆、 一件家具，等等 等等的依赖， 必定会产生失序。 我们看到这个事实了吗？ |
| And the freedom from attachment without becoming isolated, callous, indifferent does that bring about certain order? Because what we are talking about is that when we have put everything in order then there is a great deal of energy, tremendous energy. And one needs that energy to go most profoundly into oneself. So we are asking, discovering for ourselves first the disorder in which we live and the nature of that disorder which is part of attachment, fear and pleasure and so on and without directing it in a particular direction hoping that will bring order but just to be aware of this disorder without any movement away from it. Are we meeting each other? Is the speaker making the thing clear? That is, may I go into it? All right. | 并且从依赖中解脱 而不变得封闭、 无情、漠不关心， 那会不会带来 某种秩序呢？ 因为我们谈论的是， 当我们使一切变得有序， 那么就会有很多能量， 巨大的能量。 并且人需要这种能量 来彻底了解自己。 所以我们要询问、 要亲自去发现的 首先是 我们生活在其中的失序， 以及这失序的本质， 失序是依赖、恐惧、 快乐等等的一部分， 同时不把它引入 某个特定的方向， 期望着能带来秩序， 而仅仅是觉察 这个失序， 不作任何躲避。 我们互相理解了吗？ 讲话者说明白了吗？ 我可以深入进去吗？ 好的。 |
| Suppose I live in disorder inwardly I may have marvellous order outwardly but inwardly perhaps I am in great disorder. And I ask myself, what am I to do? Is that disorder different from me? Or I am that disorder? You understand this question? Please, this is really important to understand because if the disorder is different from me then I can do something about it then I can change the pattern move from one corner to another corner or bring psychological order by suppressing, by control, by this and by that. I can do something about it. But if the disorder is not different from me which is a fact, that the disorder is me then the problem arises, what happens then? You are following all this? You are not listening to me, you are listening to yourself. Then perhaps you will bring about a change. But if you merely listen to the speaker you can listen to him for the rest of your life and I hope you won't and if you merely listen to him you won't change. But if you yourself see that you live in disorder and that disorder is not different from you fundamentally, basically you are that disorder then what takes place? Before, you could do something about it because you separated yourself from it and you operated on it and therefore in that there was constant conflict betrayal, one day you could do it the next day you couldn't do it and so on and so on fluctuating from day to day. Whereas the fact is, you are that disorder. That is a fact, not a conclusion which the speaker has come to and is trying to impose it on you, which he is not. We are not doing propaganda of any kind trying to convince you of anything. But when the disorder is me I can't do anything about it which means I can't operate on it as I used to before. So I remain in this total disorder. Are you doing this as we are talking? Or is it just a verbal accumulation? Which is, I am not different from that disorder. That disorder exists because I have divided myself from what I have called disorder. That is one of the major factors of disorder. I have discovered that. Wherever there is a separation between me and psychologically what I observe that division is one of the major factors of disorder. That is, when I call myself a Hindu, or myself a Muslim or a Christian, Catholic or a British or a French or German, or whatever it is the division is a factor of disorder the Jew and the Arab, you have got an obvious example everyday that is happening. So psychologically when there is division between disorder and myself I am encouraging and cultivating disorder. Whereas the fact is the disorder is myself and therefore the realisation, the truth of that brings order. Are you following this? You are all very silent. It's up to you. | 假设我生活在失序中， 内心混乱， 我可能外在非常有序， 但我内心可能 处于极度混乱之中。 所以我问自己， 我该怎么办？ 那个失序和“我” 是不同的吗？ 或者“我”就是那个失序？ 你理解这个问题吗？ 请注意，理解这点 非常重要， 因为如果那个失序 与“我”是不同的， 那么我就能对它 想办法， 我能改变方式， 从一个角落 转移到另一个角落， 或者借助压抑、控制， 通过这个或那个 在心理上建立秩序。 我能对它做点什么。 但如果那个失序 与“我”并无不同， 事实上那个失序就是“我”， 那么就出现了这个问题， 接下来会发生什么？ 你明白这些吗？ 你不是在听我说， 你在聆听自己。 接下来你可能 会发生某种改变。 但如果你仅仅 聆听讲话者， 你可以在有生之年 一直听他讲， 而我不希望你这样， 如果你仅仅听他讲， 你是不会改变的。 但如果你亲自 看到自己生活在失序中， 而那个失序与“你” 并无不同， 从根本上， “你”就是那个失序， 那么会发生什么？ 以前，你能对它 想方设法， 因为你将自己 与它分开， 并拿它开刀， 因而其中存在持续的冲突、 背叛， 某一天你能做到， 第二天你又做不到了， 等等，等等， 处于日复一日的波动中。 然而，事实是， “你”就是那个失序。 这是一个事实， 不是讲话者得出 并要强加给你的结论。 我们不是在做 任何宣传， 不是劝你做任何事情。 但当那个失序就是“我”， 我就对它没有了 任何办法， 那就意味着 我不能像以前那样拿它开刀。 所以我待在 那个彻底的失序中。 当我们探讨的时候 你正在这样做吗？ 或者只是 积攒了一些词句？ 我与那个失序没有任何不同。 那个失序之所以存在， 是因为我将自己 与我称之为失序的东西分开了。 那就是失序的 主要因素之一。 我发现了这点。 只要我与我从心理上 观察到的东西之间 存在分离， 那个分离就是 失序的主要因素之一。 就是说，当我称自己为 印度教徒或穆斯林， 或者基督教徒、天主教徒， 或者英国人、法国人、 德国人， 或者无论什么， 这种分离就是失序的因素， 犹太人和阿拉伯人， 这个例子你可以轻而易举地看到， 每天都在发生。 所以在心理上， 当失序和我自己之间存在分离， 我就是在鼓励和培养失序。 然而事实是 失序就是我自己， 因而这个发现， 这个真相就带来了秩序。 你明白这些了吗？ 你们都很沉默。 这取决于你。 |
| Q: I am waiting for it to happen. | 问：我在等着它发生。 |
| K: The gentleman says he is waiting for it to happen. I'm afraid you will have to wait a long time then! (Laughter) It is a fact, it can't happen to you. You yourself see what is going on therefore the actual fact the truth of the matter frees the mind from disorder. The cause of this disorder is the separation as me and different from disorder. You understand? | 克：这位先生说 他在等着它发生。 恐怕你要等很长时间！ （笑声） 这是一个事实， 它没法发生在你身上。 你自己看到 正在发生的一切， 从而那个事实、 那件事情的真相 就将心灵从失序中解放了出来。 失序的原因 就在于把我和 失序区分开来。 你明白吗？ |
| So, similarly can we bring order in our life? That is, to learn the art of putting everything in its right place. That is order. But you cannot put things in their right place unless the man who puts the thing in the right place is also very orderly. You understand? Naturally. So we are trying to find out what is order and what is disorder. Disorder can be dissolved only when the division between me and the other ceases to be, psychologically. And one has to learn the art of putting things in their proper place. Money, which most of us, if we have lots of it cling to it, if you have little of it you want more of it, and so on and so on. Money has become tremendously important in the world. And also sex has become tremendously important. I am not going to talk about it, it is important. You know how important it is in your life. And when you give something such great importance that very fact that you are giving a particular thing great importance is disorder. Right? If I give tremendous importance to exercise so-called yoga then I am putting that totally out of proportion. So putting everything in its proper place implies giving everything its right value. Right? Can we do that? Do we want to do that? Or is it all much too difficult? Or you say, 'Please, we have lived for so many years in this mess, let me go on. Don't interfere with this mess'. And so you accept the mess and you are accustomed to it. You say we've become comfortable with this mess and we don't want to alter it. But a man who is seriously concerned not only with the world outside of us but also inwardly to give money, sex, everything its proper place is to learn the beauty of freedom. Without that there is no freedom. | 那么，同样地， 我们能在生活中带来秩序吗？ 就是说，学会 将所有事物放在 其正确位置的艺术。 那就是秩序。 但你无法把所有事物 都放在正确的位置上， 除非要把事情放在 正确位置上的这个人 也秩序井然。 你理解吗？ 自然如此。 所以我们要试着去 发现什么是秩序， 什么是失序。 失序的消除只能发生在 “我”与另一个之间的分离 在心理上停止之时。 而人必须学会 把事情放在恰当位置的艺术。 金钱，对我们多数人来说， 如果我们有很多钱， 就会紧抓不放， 如果你不富裕， 你就会期望得到更多金钱， 等等，等等。 金钱在这个世界上 变得无比重要。 并且“性”也变得极其重要。 我不会谈这个问题， 但它很重要。 你知道它在你生活中 有多么重要。 而当你赋予某件事情 如此之大的重要性， 你给予某件特定的事情 巨大重要性的事实本身 就是失序。 对吗？ 如果我赋予练习 所谓瑜伽 以极大的重要性， 那么我就会让它 完全丧失应有的比例。 所以把所有事情 都放在恰当的位置上 意味着赋予 所有事情正确的价值。 对吗？ 我们能做到吗？ 我们想这么做吗？ 或者，是不是很难做到？ 或者你说，“拜托， 我们已经在这种混乱中 生活了这么多年，让我们 继续这样吧。 不要干扰这种混乱。” 所以你接受了这种混乱 并且习惯了它。 你说，我们已经 与这种混乱相安无事， 我们不想改变它。 但一个认真关切， 不仅关心 我们周围的世界， 而且关心我们内在世界 的人， 如果想给金钱、性等所有事情 一个正确的位置， 就要学习自由之美。 没有那些就没有自由。 |
| So then the next problem is: we live under great pressure, more and more. Pressure - institutional pressures political pressures, economic pressures, social pressures and so on and so on and so on. And we said perhaps the greatest pressure in most of us is the desire that wants to act the pressure of tremendous desire. Right? Are we following all this? May I go on? | 那么接下来的问题是： 我们生活在巨大的压力下， 压力越来越大。 压力 ——制度的压力、 政治压力、经济压力、 社会压力 等等，等等，等等。 而我们说， 也许最大的压力， 对我们多数人来说， 是想要有所作为的渴望， 巨大渴望的压力。 对吗？ 我们明白这些了吗？ 我可以继续吗？ |
| Q: Yes. | 问：好的。 |
| K: I hope you are watching all this in yourself. Because you can listen to these words for the next 10 years, 15 years, 20 years but at the end of that you say, 'I am where I was'. Because you don't apply you don't say, 'I am going to find out'. You merely live at the level of words. | 克：我希望你在自己身上 观察这一切。 因为你可以在 未来的十年、十五年、 二十年继续听这些讲话， 而到了最后你说， “我还在原地。 ” 因为你没有行动起来， 你没有说， “我要去弄清楚。 ” 你仅仅生活在 词语的层面。 |
| The next thing is: why is there such a tremendous pressure of desire in most of us? The pressure of sex, the pressure of desire for sex desire for experience, desire to be popular, famous desire to - you know, all the rest of it what the activities of desire are. Desire for enlightenment, which is the most stupid desire! Because enlightenment doesn't come through desire. You may go to all the highest peaks in the Himalayas but you will never find illumination there. It is where you are, not in India, or in Japan or in some other place - or even Rome. (Laughter) Sorry to talk about Rome because I have just heard this morning about the Pope being elected! (Laughter) | 接下来的问题是： 为什么 我们多数人身上 存在着如此巨大的压力？ 性的压力， 渴望得到性、 得到经验的压力， 渴望出名、 渴望…… ——你知道，诸如此类， 那些渴望的行为都有哪些。 渴望觉悟， 是最愚蠢的渴望！ 因为觉悟 不是通过渴望得来的。 你可以攀登 喜马拉雅山的所有高峰， 但在那里你 永远发现不了启示。 它就在你身处的地方， 而不是在印度、日本 或其他地方 ——更不在罗马。 （笑声） 抱歉谈到了罗马， 因为我早上刚刚 听说选举了教皇！ （笑声） |
| So, if one is aware in oneself, of oneself one sees how desire is so extraordinarily strong desire for power, to dominate people Desire for you know all this, I don't have to go into details. You know it all very, very well. And we live under this pressure. And so not only physiologically one becomes ill the strain of it, but also psychologically it is a great travail, it is a great problem. I desire, say for example, to be the most marvellous person and it is a constant strain to become somebody, to be somebody, to achieve a result. So one can see desire, without being understood the whole nature and the structure of desire is one of the factors of disorder. Right? Please do we see that? Please don't accept what I am saying that is totally unimportant. Is that in yourself a fact which you have discovered for yourself seeing that desire in all its multiple forms and multiple expressions does breed confusion does breed disorder. Right? And most people have said control desire suppress desire, or fulfil desire go to the extreme of desire - they have done all these tricks. Talk to any monk and they will tell you we must suppress any desire carnal desire, or any form of desire in order to serve God or Jesus or - whoever God is. And so there is always this suppression control, constant conflict you desire something, you suppress it you rationalise it, you control it, you run away from it and so on. So what we are trying to do what we are saying is: let's find out the nature of desire how it arises, and whether we can give desire its proper place and not in any way suppress it, control it, destroy it. Right? We are going to go into that. | 所以，如果一个人 自身明了，了知自己， 他就能看到 渴望是何等强烈， 对权力、 对操纵民众的欲望。 你知道对所有这些的渴望， 我不必深入细节。 你知道得非常非常清楚。 我们生活在这种压力下。 所以人不仅生理上得病， 它带来了紧张，而且 心理上也变得病态， 那是一种巨大的痛苦， 一个巨大的问题。 我渴望，举例说， 成为最棒的人， 因而这成了 一种持续的紧张， 要变成某人，要做个人物， 要成就什么结果。 所以你能看到欲望， 没有理解 欲望的整个本质和结构， 是失序的因素之一。 对吗？ 拜托，我们明白这点了吗？ 请不要接受 我所说的话， 那完全不重要。 那是你亲自发现的 你自己身上的一个事实吗？ 看到形形色色、 以各种方式表达的渴望 确实滋生混乱， 确实滋生失序。 对吗？ 而大部分人都说过控制欲望、 压制欲望，或满足欲望， 走向欲望的极致 ——他们已经玩过所有这些把戏。 与任何一个出家人交谈， 他们会告诉你 必须压制所有欲望， 肉体的欲望， 或者任何形式的欲望， 以便为上帝或耶稣或 不管哪位神灵服务。 因而总是存在 这种压抑、 控制和持续的冲突， 你渴望某个东西， 你压制它， 你将它合理化，控制它、 逃避它，等等。 那么我们要做的， 我们要说的是： 让我们发现 欲望的本质， 它是怎样产生的，并且 我们能否给欲望一个合适的位置， 而绝不是压抑它、 控制它、消灭它。 对吗？ 我们要深入研究。 |
| So one must find out the whole nature and the structure of desire. Find out for oneself not be told what is the nature and the structure of desire. Then if you accept it you will come back next year or the next thirty years and say, 'Well, that is exactly where I am I began and you have left me where I was after 30 years'. Because one has lived on words not actually gone into it for yourself. Why has desire become so extraordinarily important? It is encouraged through education in every form, society all things around us encourage this process of desire. I want to find out why desire has become important in oneself and what is desire. So I must first understand the nature of sensation. Right? Sensory perception, senses. I must understand the way of the senses. May we go on? | 所以一个人必须弄清楚 欲望的整个本质和结构。 亲自去发现， 而不是被告知 欲望的本质和结构是什么。 如果你接受了别人的话， 明年或接下来的三十年里 你还会再来， 说，“哦， 我还是老样子， 我开始过，可你把我 留在了三十年前的地方。 ” 因为你依靠言语生活， 而没有亲自去实际地 深入探究。 为什么欲望 变得如此重要？ 通过各种形式的教育， 欲望得到了鼓励， 社会、 我们周围的一切 都助长欲望这个过程。 我想弄清楚为什么 欲望在人们心里变得重要， 以及欲望是什么。 所以我必须首先 了解感觉的本质。 对吗？ 感官知觉，感觉。 我必须了解 感觉的运作方式。 我们可以继续吗？ |
| The senses being touch, smell, taste and so on. And we never function with all the senses in operation. I wonder if you understand this. No? Taste becomes so extraordinarily important if you are a gourmet if you like good food, wine and all the rest of it taste becomes extraordinarily important. Or if you are sensitive, music. Only music becomes important, hearing a lovely sound and the space between sounds, and the quality of sound. Or something. So our senses are broken up, fragmented we never see anything with all our senses completely. Right? Are we understanding each other? Can you look at something the movement of the sea the way of the clouds the wind among the trees, to look at it all with all your senses fully flowering and looking. Can we do that? Then when you do that you will see as a test you are not accepting what I am saying test it for yourself - then you will see that there is no centre from which you are observing. There is no division caused by the centre who says 'I am different from that'. When you observe things totally a woman or a man or a child or your girl friend, husband, wife with all the senses awakened then there is no one particular sense demanding an action. You are following all this? Are you doing it as we are talking about it? So senses have their right place but they become destructive, divisive and conflicting when one particular sense is developed and the others are dormant or semi-dormant. Whereas when you observe something entirely with all your senses then there is no division in yourself. | 感觉就是触觉、 嗅觉、味觉等等。 并且我们从来没有在所有 感觉都活跃的状态下运作过。 我想知道你们有没有理解这点。 没理解？ 味觉变得 极端重要， 如果你是个美食家的话， 如果你喜欢美食、 美酒及诸如此类的东西， 味觉就变得极端重要。 或者如果你对音乐很敏感。 只有音乐变得重要， 听着美妙的声音， 声音之间的空间， 声音的品质。 或者其他什么。 所以我们的感觉 被打碎了，成为碎片， 我们从来没有用我们 全部的感觉完整地看任何事情。 对吗？ 我们相互理解了吗？ 你能不能看着某个东西， 大海的涌动， 云彩的步履， 树间的风， 去看所有一切， 充分开放你所有的感官去看。 我们能那样做吗？ 当你那样做的时候， 把它当作一个试验，你就会看到 ——你不要接受我说的话， 亲自去试验 ——你就会看到 不存在一个 你从那里出发进行观察的中心。 不存在 说“我与之不同”的中心 所造成的分裂。 当你完整地观察 一个女人、 一个男人或一个孩子， 或你的女朋友、 丈夫、妻子， 让所有感官全部醒觉， 那么就没有某个 特别的感官要求行动。 你理解所有这些吗？ 当我们探讨的时候 你在这么做吗？ 所以感觉有它们 正确的位置， 但它们变得 具有破坏性、分裂性、 互相冲突，只要个别感觉 更发达，而其他感觉 处于休眠或半休眠状态。 然而当你动用你全部感觉 完整地观察某个事物时， 你自己身上就没有分裂。 |
| So desire is part of these sensations is the beginning of sensation. Right? That is a fact, isn't it? See a beautiful woman or a man or a child, or a car or a mountain, or a lovely proportioned house, or a garden and perception, sensation and the desire arises. Right? And the desire that sensation, perception, sensation creates the image and then desire begins to operate. That is the whole movement of desire. This is a simple, obvious, daily fact which you can observe if you are paying attention. | 所以欲望是 这些感觉的一部分， 是感受的开始。 对吗？ 这是事实，不是吗？ 看到一个漂亮的女人、 男人或孩子，或汽车 或山峰，或一座 造型匀称的房子、花园， 然后感知，产生感觉， 欲望就出现了。 对吗？ 然后那个欲望， 那个感觉、感知， 感受制造出意象， 然后欲望开始运作。 这就是欲望的 整个活动过程。 这是你能观察到的一个 简单明了的日常事实， 如果你留心注意的话。 |
| So where does the conflict, the trouble, the confusion begin in the movement of desire? Right? You are following? Say, for example, I see a beautiful tree, or a lovely garden. I have got a piece of land and I'd like to have such a beautiful garden myself. That is, there is perception sensation, the image-making which is thought - right? and then thought pursues that which it has observed which it has pleased. So wherever there is the movement of thought with regard to sensation then desire brings conflict. Are you understanding this? Is this clear, or am I too? No, no, I see it is not. I have to repeat it differently. | 那么， 在欲望的活动中， 冲突、麻烦、困惑 是如何开始的呢？ 对吗？ 你跟上了吗？ 比如说，我看到了一棵漂亮的树 或一座美丽的花园。 我有一块土地， 并且我自己也想有 这样一座漂亮的花园。 那就是，有了感知、感受、 制造意象的过程， 而那就是思想——对吗？ 然后思想追逐 它看到的、 它喜欢的。 所以任何情况下 只要存在 关于感觉的思想活动， 欲望就会带来冲突。 你理解这点了吗？ 这点清楚了或者我说清楚了吗？ 不，不，我觉得没有。 我得用另一种方式 重复一下。 |
| There is perception of a beautiful house well-proportioned, all the rest of it. Then there is sensation. That is normal, that is essential otherwise I am blind, my senses are not acute, aware. But the trouble begins the moment thought creates the image of owning a house like that and working for it identifying oneself with that house and so on. So where thought begins to interfere with the perception then there is division then desire begins. You've followed this? Is this clear? No, not what I am saying, for yourself. Are you also working as hard as we are all working? It is hot in here. Are you working as hard? I hope so. It doesn't matter. It is up to you. | 看到了一座美丽的房子， 比例匀称，等等。 这时有了感官知觉。 这很正常， 这是基本的， 否则我就瞎了， 我的感官不灵敏、不清醒。 但麻烦从那一刻就开始了， 就在这一刻，思想构造出拥有 那样一栋房子的意象， 并为之努力， 将自身与那座房子相认同 等等。 所以，只要思想开始 干预知觉， 分离就出现了， 欲望就开始了。 你理解这点了吗？ 这点明确了吗？ 不， 不是我说的， 你得自己弄明白。 你是不是也和我们 一样在努力？ 这儿挺热的。 你也一样在努力吗？ 我希望如此。 没关系。 这取决于你。 |
| So the question is: it is natural to have the perception, sensation that is natural but can that moment stop and not thought come in and create an image and pursue that image which becomes desire? You understand what I'm saying? You understand my question? That is, perception, sensation is normal, healthy but when thought comes in, creates the image then the image is pursued as desire, then the trouble begins. Haven't you noticed it in yourself? You can see a beautiful car and there is the sensation and the image of you driving in it, driving it the power you have and all that. But whereas seeing the car, sensation, and stop there. Can you do it? You try it and see what is involved in it. In that there is no control. You see the whole implication of desire how it arises how thought then creates the image and pursues it. Whereas perception, sensation and looking at the car or the mountain, the girl, or the boy, or whatever it is. Then there is no conflict there is no suppression of desire then you have the enormous energy that has been used up by the movement of thought as desire. Is this clear? | 那么问题就成了： 有那样的感知、感觉 很自然， 那是自然的事情， 但能不能阻止 思想进入， 阻止思想制造并追求 那个成为欲望的意象？ 你理解我说的话吗？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 就是说，感知、感觉 是正常的、健康的， 但当思想进入， 制造出意象， 然后那个意象作为欲望被追求， 然后麻烦就开始了。 难道你在自己身上 没发现这点吗？ 也许你看到一辆漂亮的车， 有了感官知觉， 然后就有了你驾驶 那辆车的意象， 开着车你所 拥有的力量，如此这般。 但反之，看到那辆车， 有了感知，然后就此打住。 你能做到吗？ 你试试看， 看看其中会涉及到什么。 其中没有控制。 你看到整个欲望 的含义， 它怎样浮现， 思想怎样制造意象 并追求它。 然而有了感知、感觉， 看着那辆车、 或那座山，那个女孩， 或男孩，或者无论什么， 然后没有冲突， 没有对欲望的压制， 这时你就会拥有巨大的能量， 那个能量之前被 作为思想运动的欲望所消耗。 这点清楚了吗？ |
| So the next point is we are investigating into ourselves why do we live so greatly on remembrances? You understand my question? Why human beings live in the past, which is to remember? Right? You all look so puzzled. You have had a pleasant day and you remember it and it is stored up as a memory and you delight in that memory, you live in that memory or you live in a sexual memory or the memory of some achievement that has been possible for you. So remembrance has become extraordinarily important for all of us as experience, as knowledge. I am asking, we are asking, why? Do you understand? Not that we must not remember of course you must remember how to drive a car where your home is and so on and so on the technological knowledge one has acquired but psychologically why has remembrance such importance in our life? Right? You are asking this question yourself. So what is remembrance? What is the factor of remembrance? There was an incident that was pleasurable or painful an event that brought a smile or a tear and that is registered in the brain. Right? Naturally. This is simple. And that registration becomes the memory that registration is the remembrance of that delightful event or that painful event. Now the question is: why should we register psychologically anything? You understand my question? I have put a question: why should the brain register an event which was painful or pleasurable? It may register things that are dangerous - right? like a precipice, like a dangerous animal or dangerous snake, or a dangerous person a crook and so on, it may register. Those are all obvious daily facts. But why should the brain register the hurt the flattery, the insult the feeling that you are this and all the rest of it why should there be registration psychologically at all? You have got the question, haven't you? Are we meeting each other? Is it time for me to stop? | 那么下一点是： 我们来深入 探究我们自己， 我们的生活为什么 如此依赖记忆？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 为什么人类生活在 记住的过去之中？ 对吗？ 你们看起来都很困惑。 你过了愉快的一天， 然后你记住了它， 作为记忆储存起来， 然后从那个记忆中你获得快乐， 你生活在那个记忆中， 或者你生活在 一个性生活的记忆中， 或者对你可能取得的 某些成就的记忆中。 所以记忆作为经验、作为知识， 对我们所有人来说 都变得异常重要。 我要问，我们要问， 这是为什么？ 你理解吗？ 不是说我们不能去记忆， 当然你必须记住 怎样驾驶汽车， 你的家在哪儿 等等，等等， 记住你获得的技术知识， 但在心理上， 为什么记忆 在我们生活中如此重要？ 对吗？ 你来问自己 这个问题。 那么什么是记忆？ 记忆有哪些因素？ 发生过快乐 或痛苦的事情， 带来欢笑或泪水的事情， 然后就记录在大脑中。 对吗？ 很自然，很简单。 然后那个记录变成记忆， 那个记录就是 对那件高兴的事情 或痛苦的事情的记忆。 现在的问题是： 我们为什么要 在心理上记录任何事情？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 我提出了一个问题： 大脑为什么要 记录一个事件， 痛苦或快乐的事情？ 它可以记录 危险的事情——对吗？ 比如一个悬崖、 一个危险的动物 或危险的蛇， 或一个危险的人， 一个骗子，等等， 它可以记录。 这些都是 显而易见的平常事实。 但为什么大脑 要记录伤害、 恭维、侮辱， 认为你是这个和那个 的感觉， 究竟为什么要 在心理上记录这些？ 你明白这个问题， 对吧？ 我们互相理解了吗？ 到我该打住的时候了吗？ |
| Q: No! | 问：没有！ |
| K: Dites moi, je vous prie, quant il est midi et demi. | 克：告诉我，我会停下来的， 大概中午了。 |
| Now we are asking: it is one of the factors of the brain to register of necessity. I must register technological knowledge if I am working with machines and so on and so on. And also if I write or if I am a surgeon a doctor and so on, it must be registered. But we are asking: why should one psychologically register anything at all? At least see the question first. Is it necessary? Does it bring a clarity? Does it bring greater energy, freedom and so on? Or psychological registration is one of the factors that destroys real joy. I'll go into it presently. | 现在我们要问： 大脑要记录的原因之一 是必要性。 我必须记录 技术知识， 如果我使用机器工作 等等，等等。 并且如果我写作 或者我是个外科医生、 是个大夫等等， 必须要记录技术知识。 但我们要问： 究竟为什么一个人要 在心理上记录任何事情？ 至少要先明白这个问题。 这有必要吗？ 这能带来清晰吗？ 能带来更大的能量和自由等等吗？ 抑或，心理的记录 是破坏真正喜悦的 因素之一。 我马上就深入探讨这个问题。 |
| We said the brain in its activity must register certain things, it is necessary. But we are asking: psychologically, inwardly why should the brain register? Is it a habit that we have fallen into that when you insult me I register it immediately? When you flatter me, I register it immediately. Why? When you flatter me you are my friend when you insult me you are not my friend and so on and so on, so on. Now we are asking: can this registration stop psychologically? See what it means. Then that means regeneration of the brain. So the brain becomes extraordinarily alive, young, fresh because it is not registering that which is not necessary. I wonder if you follow all this. Now, is that possible? Intellectually one can see the beauty of it, verbally. You say, 'By Jove, it must be most extraordinary intellectually to have no psychological registration'. It doesn't mean one is a vegetable, or empty, or all that but there is a freedom an extraordinary sense of elation an extraordinary sense of youthfulness the brain doesn't get old, worn out. So one must find out if it is possible. Because as we grow older the brain gets more and more mechanical more and more fixed in a groove, in a track and becomes hard, brittle, not pliable, quick. Now is this possible, not to register psychologically at all? You have got the question? Is the question clear? Yes? | 我们说过 头脑在活动中 必须记录某些事情， 那是必要的。 但我们要问： 在心理上、内心里， 头脑为什么要记录？ 当你侮辱我 我马上记住， 这是不是成了我们 身陷其中的一个习惯？ 你恭维我的时候， 我马上记住。 为什么？ 你恭维我的时候 你就是我的朋友， 你侮辱我的时候 你就不是我的朋友， 等等，等等。 那么我们要问： 这种记录能否 从心理上停止？ 看看那意味着什么。 那意味着头脑的新生。 所以头脑变得 非常有活力、年轻、清新， 因为它不再记录 不必要的事情。 我想知道你是否理解了所有这些。 那么，这可能吗？ 从理智上、言语上 一个人可以看到其中的美。 你说，“天哪，从理智上讲， 没有心理记录， 肯定是无比非凡的。 ” 那并不意味着一个人 是植物，或者空虚或诸如此类， 而是有一种自由， 一种非凡的欢欣感、 一种非凡的年轻感， 头脑没有变得 老化、迟钝。 所以，一个人必须 发现这是否可能。 因为随着我们年龄的增长， 头脑变得越来越机械， 越来越落于窠臼、 落于轨道之中， 变得困苦、脆弱， 失去韧性和敏捷。 那么有没有可能 在心理上完全不记录？ 你明白这个问题吗？ 这个问题清楚了吗？清楚了？ |
| Now, let's proceed to find out. Find out, it doesn't mean that I am going to tell you and then you discover it and say, 'Yes, it is so'. Then you will come back 30 years later: 'I'm still where I am' 'where I started' | 那么，让我们接着去发现。 去发现，不是说 我来告诉你， 然后你发现了，说， “是的，确实如此。 ” 然后三十年后你回来说： “我还在原处， 还在出发的地方。” |
| We said the brain needs security safety to function efficiently. It must register certain facts how to drive a car, write letters and so on and so on technology and so on. Then the brain has realised that putting order giving order to register only things that are necessary which is to bring order. Right? Then we can proceed to find out why the brain or the psyche, psychologically registers. Does it bring safety, avoids danger? Does it prevent further hurts further destruction, further obstructions? Or we have cultivated unconsciously the habit of registering. We have registered there, so why not here? From there we have moved to here psychologically, from outwardly it is necessary but psychologically, from there we have moved to here. And is that necessary at all? A very simple example: from childhood we are hurt psychologically by parents, by other children, by the school college, university, if you are lucky and so on and so on we are hurt, we are wounded psychologically. And that wound is registered. And having been hurt there is resistance isolation, fear and all the rest of it. Now is it necessary when you insult me to register at all? You understand my question? Is it possible to prevent registration? You are understanding my question? I hope! Right? It is possible only when you are insulting me or flattering me for all my senses to be awakened and listening. You understand this? Then there is no reception at all. Is this all Greek? (Laughter) I see the importance to have fresh, young, bright, clear brain. That is utterly important. Is it possible to maintain that clarity that precision, decision with that beauty of all that is implied till I die? It is not possible when there is registration of things which are not absolutely necessary. Right? So one has to find out why any form of psychological registration which becomes memory, remembrance is it possible not to do it? One discovers, if you go into it deeply, it is possible. It is possible only when you are really attentive at the moment of insult, at the moment of flattery. Right? Have you tried this? | 我们说过头脑需要安全， 以便有效地工作。 它必须记录 某些事实， 怎样开车、写信， 等等，等等， 技术，等等。 然后头脑意识到 建立秩序， 仅仅记录必要的事情， 这会带来秩序。 对吗？ 然后我们可以 进一步去发现 为什么头脑或心灵 要在心理上记录。 那能带来安全、 避免危险吗？ 能避免更多的伤害、 更多的破坏、 更多的阻碍吗？ 或者是我们无意识地 培养了记录的习惯。 在那个方面我们记录， 在这儿为什么就不记录呢？ 在心理层面，我们 从那儿走到这儿， 从外在来说，是必要的， 但在心理上 我们从那儿移到这儿。 这究竟有必要吗？ 一个非常简单的例子： 从童年起 我们心理上受到伤害， 被父母、被其他孩子、 被学校、 被学院、大学——如果 你幸运的话——等等所伤害， 我们心理上 受到了伤害、创伤。 然后那个伤害被记录下来。 既然受过伤害， 就有了抗拒、 隔离、恐惧， 诸如此类。 那么当你侮辱我的时候 究竟有没有必要记录？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 有没有可能阻止记录？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 我希望理解！ 对吗？ 你侮辱或恭维 我的时候， 只有当 我所有的感官都醒觉并聆听时， 才有可能阻止记录。 你理解这点吗？ 那就完全 不存在接受。 我说的都是希腊语吗？ （笑声） 我看到拥有新鲜、年轻、 聪明、清晰头脑的重要性。 极其重要。 有没有可能 保持这种清晰、 这种准确、果断 及其所蕴含的美， 直到我生命结束？ 一旦对不必要的事情 进行记录， 那就是不可能的。 对吗？ 所以一个人要弄清楚 为什么会有 任何形式的 变成记忆的心理记录， 有没有可能不这样做？ 如果你深入进去，就会发现 这是可能的。 侮辱、恭维发生时 只有你真正全神贯注， 才有可能。 对吗？你尝试过吗？ |
| The other day a man said to me, 'You are a damn fool you are stuck in a rut' rather impolite but there it is. (Laughter) So I went to my room and I said 'Is that a fact? I want to find out' One may be stuck in a rut and one may be a damn fool. One investigates it and by watching very carefully you don't register that you are you don't register, you listen to the word you listen to the fact whether you are or not whether you are stuck in a rut. Are you stuck in a rut? You understand? Are you? No, find out, don't answer me please. Somebody calls you what somebody called me I hope more politely, and you want to find out if it is so. You neither deny nor accept but just watch it, find out. If you are stuck in a rut, it is fairly obvious you'll soon find out you are in a rut. So registration does not take place when you are alert awake, totally aware with all your senses open there is nothing to be registered psychologically. Will you do it? No, you won't because pleasure has become immensely important for us. Right? If you observe yourself very carefully you will see what great part, perhaps the greatest part pleasure plays in our life. The pleasure to find God, or illumination the pleasure to be free, the pleasure to have money possessions, lovely wife or husband you know and all that business, pleasure of sex pleasure of power, the politicians with their pleasure of immense power. And so the registration of pleasure in most of our lives is tremendous. Right? And the pursuit of pleasure has become a dominant factor: that is the remembrance of a past pleasure and the pursuit of that past pleasure as remembrance and desire behind it and searching out asking, demanding, wanting. Our whole religious organisations are based on that. It is a vast entertainment it gives great pleasure, which is great sensation that you are in the presence of holy things and so on. | 前几天有个人对我说， “你是个该死的傻瓜， 你墨守陈规”， 说的非常不礼貌， 但就是那样说的。 （笑声） 所以我走进我的房间， 我说： “真是这样吗？ 我要弄清楚。” 你也许墨守陈规， 你也许是个该死的傻瓜。 你探究这个问题， 而通过仔细的观察， 你没有记录你是那样的， 你没有记录， 你聆听那些话， 你聆听你的事实 是不是那样， 你是否墨守陈规。 你墨守陈规吗？ 你明白吗？ 你墨守陈规吗？ 不，去搞清楚， 请不要回答我。 别人对我那样称呼， 有人也这么称呼你。 我希望更礼貌些， 而你要去发现是不是那么回事。 你既不拒绝也不接受， 而只是去观察、去发现 你是否墨守陈规， 显然 你很快就会发现 你落在陈规之中。 所以记录并没有发生， 当你警觉、 清醒，用你所有的感官 去充分觉知时， 心理上 没有什么要记录的。 你会这样做吗？ 不，你不会， 因为快乐对我们来说 变得至关重要。 对吗？ 如果你非常仔细地 观察自己， 你会看到 在我们的生命中 快乐扮演着无比重要的角色。 发现上帝或启示的快乐， 自由的快乐， 拥有金钱、 财产、可爱伴侣 的快乐， 你知道，所有那些， 性的快乐、 权力的快乐， 政治家们 获得巨大权力的快乐。 所以在我们的大部分生活中， 对快乐的记录 是惊人的。 对吗？ 而且对快乐的追寻 成为了一个支配因素： 那就是记着过去的快乐， 并且追求已成为记忆的 过去的快乐， 背后隐藏的欲望 并且追寻、 请求、要求、需求。 我们的整个宗教 组织就是以此为基础。 那是一场规模庞大的娱乐， 它提供巨大的快乐， 也就是强烈的感受， 你与神圣之物同在，等等。 |
| So we said, the registration of pleasure of an event that gave you great delight is registered and the pursuit of it in our life. | 所以我们说， 记录让你高兴的事情 带来的快乐， 并终生追寻。 |
| Now the question is: what is pleasure? When you are enjoying something at the moment you don't say 'How pleasurable it is, how lovely' - you are in it. Only a second later thought comes along and says 'What a lovely time that was how beautiful that was, what a great sensation it gave me what a lovely experience' so there is registration has taken place then thought is in operation. You are following all this? | 那么问题是： 什么是快乐？ 当你享受某个东西， 在那一刻 你不会说 “多么快乐，多么可爱” ——你正身处其中。 仅仅一秒钟之后 思想进来了，说 “多么可爱的时光， 多么美妙， 它给我多么强烈的感受、 多么美好的经历”， 于是记录就发生了， 然后思想开始运作。 你理解所有这些吗？ |
| We are talking about all this because it is part of knowing oneself not from books, not from words, not from description but actually knowing oneself. Knowing doesn't mean accumulating memory about oneself and from that accumulation observe. If you observe through accumulation you are only accumulating what you have already known. But whereas if you are observing afresh each time then it is like a vast river with a volume of water flowing, moving. | 我们探讨这些， 因为这是自我了解的一部分， 不是通过书本，不是 通过语言，不是通过描述， 而是真正去了解自己。 了解并不意味着 积累关于自己的知识， 并根据那个积累 去观察。 如果你通过积累观察， 你就仅仅是 在积累你已经知道的东西。 然而如果你 每次重新观察， 那它就像 一条大河一样， 巨大的水流在其中 流淌、运动。 |
| So what is pleasure? Is it time, is it thought as fear? We said the root of fear is time. The root of fear is thought. Thought which is remembering - remembrance remembers certain events that caused fear registered, the remembrance of it and the next time this whole remembrance is projected. You are watching? So is pleasure time and the movement of thought? Or they are both the same thought and time are essentially the same? So thought is the movement of pleasure which doesn't mean you can't look at a beautiful tree and enjoy it a beautiful person, a painting or a lovely valley with all the purple shadows in it. Look at it but the moment it becomes registered and remembrance it is no longer delight, it becomes a pleasure which is the remembrance of things that have happened before. Now if you see the whole nature of this completely then pleasure has its place delight and therefore psychologically inwardly there is no registration of that event. The mind then, the brain then becomes extraordinarily alive young, fresh without any neurotic reactions. | 那么什么是快乐？ 它是时间吗？ 是作为恐惧的思想吗？ 我们说过 恐惧的根源是时间。 恐惧的根源是思想。 思想就是记忆， 记住造成恐惧的 特定事件， 记录，对它的记忆， 然后下一次 整个记忆被投射出来。 你在观察吗？ 所以，快乐是不是时间和 思想的运动？ 或者它们都是一回事， 思想和时间本质上 是一样的？ 所以思想是快乐的运动， 那并不意味着你不能看 一棵美丽的树并欣赏它， 一个漂亮的人、一幅画或 一座有着紫色阴影的 美丽山谷。 看着它， 而一旦它被记录、被记住， 它不就再是喜悦， 就变成了一种快乐， 成了对以往事情的记忆。 现在如果你彻底看清了 这整个本质， 那么快乐就有了自己的位置， 感到愉悦，并且 在心理上、 内心里没有对 那个事件的记录。 进而心灵、头脑变得 异常有活力、 年轻、新鲜， 没有任何神经质的反应。 |
| Finished. I've stopped just in time. Please, if I may request you, don't clap, it's such a you're clapping for yourself, not for me or clap when I am not here. (Laughter) | 讲完了。 我及时打住了。 拜托，如果我可以请求你的话， 不要鼓掌，这太 你在为自己鼓掌， 不是为我， 或者在我离开后 再鼓掌。（笑声） |
