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MA7879T4 - 是什么造成了关系中的混乱？
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| Should we sit quietly for a while or do you want me to talk? I have never attended meetings. I once went to a political meeting in this country and Dr. Besant said, 'Keep out of it.' | 我们是要安静地坐一会儿， 还是说你们想要我直接开始讲？ 我从来没有参加过什么集会。 我曾经参加过一次 这个国家（印度）的政治集会， 但贝赞特博士对我说，“请远离这种集会”。 |
| And I wonder often why we come together like this, listening to a speaker, half-serious, curious, and not really wanting to change one's life totally. One has become rather mediocre, without a flair, without any quality of genius. I am saying 'genius' in the sense not of any particular talent, or a particular gift, but the genius of a mind that comprehends the totality of life, which is our life, a vast, complex, contradictory, unhappy existence. And one listens to all this, to what the speaker has to say, and one goes away with partial understanding, with no deep intention and serious attention to bring about a deep psychological revolution. And one wonders often why human beings tolerate the kind of life one leads. You may blame the circumstances, the society, the political organisation, but blaming others hasn't solved our problem. We drift, and our life seems such a waste, either going to the office from morning till night for the next 50 years or so and then retire to die, or vegetate, or grumble, or fade away quietly. | 我常常会好奇： 为什么我们要像这样子聚集在一起， 聆听这位演讲者讲话， 半认真的， 带着好奇心， 却并不是真的想要 完全地改变自己的生活。 我们已经变得相当的「平庸」， 没有“天分”， 没有任何“天赋品质”。 我这里所说的“天赋”， 它并不是指任何特定的才华， 或者特定的才能， 而是心灵的天赋， 这种心灵可以理解生命的整体 ——也就是我们的生活， 我们的生活是一种庞大、复杂、自相矛盾 和不快乐的「存在」。 我们听了所有这些东西， 听了演讲者所要说的东西， 然后我们就走了， 一知半解的， 没有深刻的意愿 也没有认真的兴趣， 想要带来一次 深刻的心理上的革命。 而某人（指克氏自己）常常会好奇： 为什么人类 能够忍受他们所过的这种生活？ 你们或许会责怪环境， 责怪这个社会， 责怪政治组织， 然而责怪别人并没有解决我们的问题。 我们总是随波逐流， 而我们的生命看起来 是一种如此的「浪费」， 要么朝九晚五地去办公室上班， 一上就是大约五十年的时间， 然后退休等死， 要么无所事事，要么抱怨牢骚不断， 要么就是默默地衰老死去。 |
| And when one looks at one's own life with all its extraordinary beauty, the vastness of what man has achieved technologically, and one wonders why there has been so little beauty in our life. I mean by that word not merely the appearance of beauty, the decoration of the outer, but that quality of great communication with nature. If one loses contact with nature, one loses relationship with other human beings. You may read poems if you are so inclined, you may read all the beautiful sonnets and the lyrical swing of a lovely poem, but imagination is not beauty. The appreciation of a cloud and the love of light in that cloud, and a sheet of water along a dry road, or a bird perched on a single branch - all that enchantment we rarely see, or appreciate, or love, because we are occupied with our own problems, with our own worries, with our peculiar ideas and fixations. We are never free. And beauty is this quality of freedom, which is totally different from independence. | 而当某人（指克氏自己）看到自己生活中 所有那些非凡的「美」， 以及人类在科技领域所取得的巨大成就， 他不免会奇怪： 为什么我们的生活中没有什么「美」？ 我所说的「美」这字， 它指的不仅仅是外表的美丽， 外在的那些装饰， 而是那种能与大自然 进行深度交流的品质。 如果一个人失去了 与「自然」的接触交流， 他也就失去了和人类其他成员的关系。 你也许会阅读诗歌 ——如果你有这种兴趣的话， 你或许可以去阅读 所有那些美丽的十四行诗， 感受一首美好诗歌中 那种抒情的律动， 然而「想象」并不是「美」。 去欣赏一朵云彩， 爱上那朵云彩中的光亮， 爱上一条干燥道路上的一片水洼， 或者那只栖息在一根树枝上的鸟儿 ——所有这些迷人的事物， 我们却很少看到它们， 或者去欣赏它们、爱上它们， 因为我们是如此地充满了 我们自己的各种问题、 各种担忧， 充满了我们自己特别的观念 和固执的观点。 我们从未「自由」过。 而「美」就是这种自由的品质， 它和「独立」是截然不同的东西。 |
| When you listen to all this, I wonder what you make of it. Whether we see a dog and love that dog, or a rock, or a stray cloud passing by, when we haven't that sense of extraordinary communication with the world, which brings about great beauty, we will become small human beings, mediocre, wasting our extraordinary life and losing all the beauty and the depth of existence. But I am afraid we must get back to realities. Though that is also real, extraordinarily real - the branch, the shadow, the light on a leaf, the fluttering parrot - that's also actual, real. And when we understand the swaying palm tree and the whole feeling of life, then there is a great sense of depth to beauty. But we are not interested in all that. Are you? I am afraid we aren't. We will listen, let it slip by. It may sound romantic, sentimental, but beauty is not romantic, nor sentimental, nor emotional. It is something very, very solid like a rock in the midst of a fast flowing stream. So, we will leave that for the moment and come back to what we were saying yesterday, and I think some of it must be repeated, and I hope you won't mind if one repeats it. | 当你聆听所有这些时， 我不知道你会怎么理解它。 我们是否会看到一条狗， 然后爱上那条狗，或者当我们看到一块岩石、 看到一朵飘过的浮云， 当我们没有那种 与这个世界产生奇妙交流的感觉 ——这种交流就会带来「惊人的美」—— 那么我们就会变成 卑微渺小的人类、平庸的人类， 浪费掉我们这非凡奇妙的生命， 并失去所有的「美」 和「存在」的深度。 不过我恐怕 我们得返回到现实中来了。 尽管那些东西也是真实的， 它们是无比真实的东西 ——树枝、阴影、 叶子上的浮光， 拍打着翅膀的鹦鹉 ——它们也是现实的、真实的东西。 而当我们了解了 那棵摇曳的棕榈树， 以及生活中的全部感受， 那时我们便能强烈地感受到「美」的深度。 可我们对这一切并不感兴趣。 你们有兴趣吗？ 我恐怕我们并没有兴趣。 我们只是听过就算了。 它也许听起来很浪漫化、柔情伤感， 但「美」并不是一种浪漫， 它也不是多愁善感或情绪化的东西。 它是某种非常非常坚实的东西 ——就如同 屹立在湍急河流中的一块岩石。 所以，我们会先把这个问题搁置一下， 然后回到我们昨天所说的东西， 我认为 我必须要重复一下 昨天讲过的一些东西， 我希望你们不会太介意 我再把它重复一遍。 |
| We were saying, weren't we, that where there is tradition, there is no culture. Tradition handed down from generation to generation, certain concepts, beliefs, values, principles, all laid down intellectually, and such abiding tradition of 3000 years or 10 days old. In that soil, culture cannot possibly blossom. Culture means to grow, to develop, not merely the intellectual side of life, but the whole totality of one's own life. Not merely to function in one direction completely, politically or have certain genius with regard to words, or with stone, or painting, but to develop, cultivate one's mind and one's heart. That's not possible where tradition, that is, values handed down - in that soil nothing can grow. And that is what we were saying yesterday. | 昨天我们说了 那就是：只要还是存在「传统」， 那就不会有「文明」。 是吧？ 传统， 它被传承下来了， 一代又一代地传下来， 包括某些概念、 信仰、价值观、 行为/道德准则， 所有这些都是思想智力所设定的， 如此漫长持久的传统 它可能有三千年的历史， 也可能仅有十天的时间。 而在这片“传统的土壤”中， 「文明」是不可能开花绽放的。 「文明」意味着成长、 发展、 不仅仅是生活中思想智性方面的成长、发展， 而是我们生命的全部的 整体的成长发展。 不只是全然专注地 朝着某一个方向发展运转 ——政治上的方向， 或者拥有某些天赋， 文字写作方面的天赋， 或者石雕、绘画方面的天赋—— 而是要去发展和培养 我们的头脑和我们的心灵。 然而当有了传统 ——也就是那些传承下来的价值观以后—— 这件事就不可能实现了， 在那片（传统的）土壤中， 没有任何东西可以发展成长。 而这就是我们昨天在说的东西。 |
| And also we were saying, time which is a very complex thing, must be investigated, must be considered. We said time is movement in division. Right? Yesterday, today and tomorrow, the knowledge which man has acquired, both scientific, so-called religious, and experience, is the past. And that past meets the present, modifies itself and goes on - the future. That is the whole movement of time. And we were saying yesterday too, that our minds are so conditioned to accept time as a means of comprehension, as a means of becoming, developing, evolving. Our whole life from childhood is based on this idea of becoming, growing, evolving. In a certain sense, both biologically and physically, time does exist. The acorn growing to an oak, that needs time. And we were saying that psychological time doesn't exist at all. The idea that through time psychologically, which is ethically, morally, spiritually, if we can use the word 'spiritually,' without being romantic or nonsensical, to really understand the religious mind - time is destructive element. That is what we talked about yesterday, more or less. | 同样的，我们也说过：时间 它是一个非常复杂的东西， 而我们也必须去探究一下「时间」， 去认真思考一下它。 我们说：「时间」就是“分裂的运动”。 对吧？ 昨天、今天和明天（的分裂）， 人类所获得的知识 ——不管是科学方面的知识， 还是所谓的“宗教知识”， 而经验就是「过去」。 这个「过去」遇见了「当下」， 它修改了自身，然后继续前进 ——而成为了「未来」。 这就是「时间」的整个运动。 而昨天我们也说了： 我们的头脑是如此的局限， 以至于它接受认可了「时间」， 将其作为一种理解事物的手段， 一种去“成为……”、 去成长、去进化的手段。 我们从小到大的整个生活 就是建立在这种观念之上的—— 要去“成为某号人物”，去成长、去发展进化。 从某种意义上说： 不管是从生物学上说， 还是从外在身体上讲， 「时间」的确存在。 一颗橡子成长为一颗橡树， 这需要「时间」。 但我们也说了： 「心理上的时间」则是完全不存在的。 那种“通过心理上的时间 来成长发展”的想法， 也就是在伦理、 道德、灵性上成长进步 ——如果我们可以使用“灵性”这个词 而去除掉其中浪漫或荒谬的成分的话， 如果你要真正了解“宗教性的心灵” ——那「时间」就是一种破坏性的元素。 这或多或少就是我们昨天 所讨论的东西。 |
| If one may, we must investigate what is order. Order - please just listen, don't agree or disagree, just like the wind, the breeze comes, so in the same way just listen - order is sequence in space. You understand that? No. We said order cannot exist without sequence, and there must be space. We are going to examine that because... - what is the matter with me today? Probably it is the weather, hot - I am not used to this hot weather. Our life is disorderly, confused, contradictory. We are talking very simply. And where there is contradiction, there is no order. Where there is confusion, conflict, there is no order. And our life as we live it daily is a mass of contradiction, confusion, and conflict, and dishonesty. Right? That's a fact. And one wonders if order can be brought about in this confusion. Because without order there is no efficiency, both intellectual, or if you have capacity, you must have order. Order has nothing whatever to do with sentiment, with romance. Order is very, very sequential, logical, sane. So we are going to inquire into what is order, whether we can have order, not a blue print, not something laid down by tradition, or by a guru, or by a leader, or by our own little desires and compulsions, but we are going to inquire into what is lasting order. Are you interested in this? How to bring about order in our life, so that there is no opposites, duality, contradiction, dishonesty, politically, religiously or in our relationship with each other. You are interested in this? Or do you want me to talk about meditation? And you can go off into some kind of illusion and think we are meditating. Because, you see, without bringing about order in our daily life do what you will, there can be no meditation. Right? So, we are laying the foundation of what is meditation. | 如果允许我指出的话： 我们必须要来探究一下 什么是「秩序」？ 秩序——请听好了， 不要同意或不同意， 就如一阵风吹来，微风拂面一般， 所以我们也要以同样的方式去聆听 ——秩序就是“空间中的次序”。 你们理解了吗？ 还没理解。 我们说了： 没有次序， 「秩序」就无法存在， 此外，我们也必须要有「空间」。 我们将会来检视一下它， 因为 ——我今天是怎么了？ 可能是气候的缘故，太热了 ——我还不习惯于这种炎热的气候。 我们的生活是混乱无序的、 困惑的、自相矛盾的。 我们会说得很简单。 而当有了矛盾，就不可能会有「秩序」。 当有了 混乱困惑和冲突， 就不会有「秩序」。 而我们现在所过的日常生活， 它就是一大堆的矛盾、 混乱困惑、冲突和不诚实。 对吧？ 这是一个事实。 而某人想知道： 在这种混乱困惑中，我们能否带来「秩序」？ 因为没有「秩序」， 就没有效率， 既包括思维智力上的效率， 或者如果你要具备某种能力， 你就必须要有秩序。 「秩序」和多愁善感、 和浪漫多情没有任何关系。 「秩序」是非常 非常有序的、 逻辑的、理智的。 所以我们将会来探询一下 什么是秩序？ 以及我们是否可能拥有「秩序」， 不是描绘一张蓝图， 不是某种传统所规定下来的东西， 或者是由某个古鲁、领袖， 或是我们自己卑微欲望与冲动 所规定下来的东西， 而是，我们将要来 探询一下： 什么才是那种「持久的秩序」？ 你们对这些东西感兴趣吗？ 如何给我们的生活带来「秩序」， 由此让我们不再有各种对立面、 二元性、矛盾、 不诚实——不管是在政治上、 宗教上，还是在我们彼此间的关系中。 你们对这个有兴趣吧？ 还是说，你们想要我谈论一下「冥想」？ 由此你们便可以进入到某种 「错觉」中去，然后认为“我们正在冥想”。 因为，你瞧， 如果我们不能给我们的日常生活 带来「秩序」， 那么无论你做了什么你想做的事， 都不可能会有「冥想」。 对吧？ 所以，我们正在打好一个基础， 从而来理解“什么是冥想”。 |
| If one realises actually what our daily life is, how disorderly it is, how contradictory it is, controlled by various objects of desire, seeking power, position, living in arrogance and vanity, and yet at the same time talk about the people, the goodness and read books, and you know, you play around with all that. All that indicates, doesn't it, a terribly dishonest life, a life of total contradiction, like an excellent lawyer who is capable of arguments and beating the other side, and going off to some temple miles away to worship. You understand the contradiction? And they are totally unaware of this. So, the first thing is - excuse my voice today - the first thing is to realise how disorderly our life is. To be aware of it, not how to bring order in disorder - please listen to this - not how to bring order in disorder, but to understand the nature of disorder. Right? When I understand the nature of disorder, then out of that comprehension out of that obvious fact, comes the beauty of order, not imposed, or disciplined, or suppressed, or conforming, but in the very investigating of disorder, naturally out of that investigation, order comes. Right? You understand this? Now, let us do it. | 如果我们能认识到 自己日常生活的真实模样， 它是多么的混乱无序、 多么的自相矛盾， 被各种欲望的对象所掌控， 寻求权力、地位， 活在傲慢自大和虚荣自负中， 然而与此同时 却在谈论什么「人民」、 「良善」，并阅读那些书籍，你知道的， 你们会玩所有这类游戏。 而所有这一切都表明了 一种极度不诚实的生活， 一种完全自相矛盾的生活，不是吗？ 就像一位杰出的律师那样， 他能够进行辩论并驳倒对方， 但他也会前往某个数英里之外的 神庙去崇拜神明。 你们理解这种自相矛盾了吗？ 然而他们（律师）却根本没有意识到这一点。 所以，首先要做的事就是 ——请原谅我今天的嗓子—— 第一件事就是要去意识到 我们的生活是多么的混乱无序。 去觉察到它， 而不是如何在混乱中带来秩序 ——请听好了—— 不是在一片混乱中，我们要如何带来秩序， 而是要去了解混乱的本质。 对吧？ 当我理解了混乱的本质， 那么从这份理解之中， 从这个显而易见的事实中， 就会产生出「秩序之美」， 它不是强加而来的，不是训练出来的， 也不是通过压抑或遵从而来的， 而是在探究混乱失序的过程中， 从这种探究之中， 很自然地就会出现「秩序」了。 对吧？ 你们理解它了吗？ 现在，我们开始这样做吧。 |
| First, let us be aware, as human beings, who have got such extraordinary capacities, - look what they've done technologically, immense things they have done. And, as human beings, who are so extraordinarily capable, who have thought out almost every form of concept, principles, ideas, religious projections, invented rituals that have religiously... most beautiful some of them, but have no meaning at all. And the human mind - I don't know if you have gone into your own minds. If you have, you can observe it - what great quality it has. Thank god! And to challenge such a mind, to demand that it shall operate at its highest excellence. Will you do it as we are talking, so that your mind - your mind being not only the various forms of sensory activities, your mind being the emotions, affection, love, care, attention, the intellectual capacity, and that sense of great love - all that is the mind, the wholeness of the mind. To challenge that - do you understand what I am saying? - that it shall operate at its highest, at its greatest excellence. Because if you don't challenge it, we live in disorder. You are following all this? | 首先，我们要意识到： 我们人类有着 如此非凡的能力 ——看看人类在科学技术领域都做了些什么， 我们做出了巨大的成就。 作为 无比能干的人类， 我们已经构思出了几乎所有形式的概念、 准则、理念、 宗教的投射物， 发明出了宗教仪式， 它们中的一些具有极度的宗教之美， 但它们并没有任何意义。 而人类的的头脑 ——我不知道你们是否曾经 深入探究过自己的头脑。 如果你们曾经探究过，可以观察一下它 ——看看它有着多么了不起的素质。 感谢上帝！ 而我们要向这样的头脑发出挑战， 要求它 以最高的卓越水平运作。 你能够在我们讲话的时候 就这样去做吗， 由此你的头脑 ——你的头脑不仅仅是 各种形式的 感官活动， 你的头脑同样也是各种情绪、 感情、爱、 关心、注意， 那种智性的能力， 和那种「大爱」的感受 ——所有这一切都是头脑， 它们构成了头脑的整体。 向头脑提出挑战 ——你们明白我在说什么吗？ —— 要求头脑以其最高的水平运转， 以它最杰出卓越的水准运作。 因为如果你不挑战它的话， 我们就会生活在混乱之中。 你们跟上所有这些了吗？ |
| So, we are inquiring into what constitutes, why human beings centuries upon centuries have accepted to live in disorder, politically, religiously, economically, socially, and in our relationship with each other. Your understand? Why? Why have we accepted to live this way? From whom do you expect the answer? Do you understand? A challenge implies that you respond, that you respond with your highest capacity and not wait for the speaker to respond and show how to respond. You follow? You understand what I am saying? I have challenged your mind. The speaker has said exercise your highest capacity, exercise all your energy to find out whether it is possible to live in a world that is degenerating, corrupt, immoral, whether you can live a sane, a life that is completely whole - that is your challenge. You understand? What is your response to it? Whole, the word 'whole' means first healthy. Both physically, psychologically, with all the capacities of your mind, and therefore with sanity. And the word 'whole' also means holy, sacred; that is, the whole of life. | 所以，我们正在探询头脑的构成， 以及为什么人类 历经无数世纪， 接受了这种混乱的生活， 政治上的混乱、宗教上的混乱、 经济上的混乱、社会上的混乱， 以及我们彼此关系中的混乱。 你们理解了吗？ 为什么？ 为什么我们接受认可了这种生活方式？ 你们在期望从谁那里得到答案呢？ 你们明白了吗？ 「挑战」意味着你要作出反应， 你需要以你最大的能力去作出反应， 而不是等待演讲者 来作出反应，然后告诉你要如何去反应。 你们跟上了吗？ 你们理解我在说的东西吗？ 我已经向你的头脑提出了挑战。 演讲者说： 请运用你最大的能力， 运用你全部的能量去发现 我们是否可能生活在这个 正在衰退、 腐化和不道德的世界里， （在这个世界里）你是否能够 去过一种心智健全的生活， 一种完全完整的生活 ——这就是你所面临的挑战。 你理解了吗？ 你对此的反应是什么？ 完整，“完整”这个词， 首先，它意味着「健康」。 既包括身体上的健康， 也包括心理上的健康， 运用你头脑全部的能力， 从而变得心智健全。 此外，“完整”这个词， 它同样意味着圣洁、神圣； 也就是生命的整体性。 |
| So we are asking whether you as a human being are aware the total disorder and degeneration out in the world around you and in yourself, the degenerating process going on? Are you aware of it? Aware in the sense - observe what is actually taking place, not imagine what is taking place, nor idea of what is taking place, but the actual happening: the political, the religious, the social, the moral degeneration of man. And no institution, no guru, no higher principles are going to stop this degradation. Are we aware of it? If we are, then what shall we do? Right? Right, sir? What shall we do? What is your action - not in some future date - what is your immediate action? Will you join some sect, will you follow some guru or will you go back to your old tradition repeating something or other, rituals, to escape from the actual fact of the brain that is going to... that is getting old, degenerating. Or will you, together - you and I - investigate, explore why human beings have become like this? It is happening the world over, it isn't just the specialty of this spiritual land. Sorry to use the word 'spiritual,' because you are so proud of your own culture. It is like a politician saying, 'We are very old, our culture is ancient.' Then that gives him a certain sense of dignity, but in his heart he is... you know what it is, I don't have to tell you. So, what shall we do? I would suggest that we first look at our life, actually what it is, what is happening in our life, because our life in action is society. Right, sir? You get it? Agree? Our life in action is our society, and you cannot transform that society unless you transform yourself. That's so obvious. The communists, the liberals, the socialists will not alter it. Or your reading the Gita, the Upanishads will not alter it, or becoming terribly interested in what Buddhism has to say, or follow Zen meditation - you know, none of those will solve it. Don't know what has happened today. | 所以我们正在问： 你作为人类的一员， 你是否觉察到了 这种彻底的混乱与堕落， 这种混乱堕落存在于你周围的世界中， 也存在于你身上， 这种衰退堕落的过程正在进行着， 你觉察到它了吗？ 这里“觉察”的意思是： 去观察实际正在发生的事情， 而不是想象正在发生些什么， 也不是关于“正在发生事情”的想法概念， 而是那些真实发生的事情： 那些政治上、宗教上、 社会上、道德上发生的事情， 人类的堕落。 而没有任何机构团体、 没有任何古鲁， 也没有任何更高级的“法则” 将会来阻止这种堕落衰退。 我们是否意识到了这一点？ 如果我们意识到了， 那么我们该怎么做呢？ 是吧？ 对吧，先生？ 我们该怎么做？ 你会采取怎样的行动 ——不是在未来的某个日子里—— 而是你即刻的行动，它会是什么？ 你还会再加入某个教派吗？ 你还会再跟从某个古鲁吗？ 或者说：你还会再回到你旧有的传统中去， 去反复念诵这样或那样的咒语， 去进行各种宗教仪式， 去逃避这个千真万确的事实： 即大脑即将 大脑正在变得衰老、正在堕落退化。 或者，你们是否会……一起 ——你和我一起—— 去探究、探索这个问题： 即 为什么人类会变成这个样子？ 这是全球各地都在发生的事情， 它并不只是这片“灵性的土地”（印度） 所特有的现象。 很抱歉使用了“灵性”这个词， 因为你们是如此地为自己的文明 感到骄傲自豪。 这就像是一个政客在说， “我们是历史悠久的民族，我们的文明非常古老。 ” 这给了他某种尊贵感， 然而他的内心，他是一个 你知道是什么东西，就不用我来说了。 所以，我们该怎么做呢？ 我的建议是： 我们首先要审视一下我们的生活， 我们的生活实际上是怎样的， 我们生活中正在发生的事情， 因为我们生活中的行动就构成了「社会」。 对吧，先生？你听懂了吗？ 你同意吗？ 我们生活中的行动就是我们的「社会」， 而除非你转变了你自己， 否则你是无法转变这个社会的。 这是显而易见的。 共产主义者、自由主义者、 社会主义者，他们将无法改变社会。 或者你们去阅读《薄伽梵歌》、《奥义书》， 这也无法改变社会， 或者你们会对佛教说的东西非常感兴趣， 或者去进行禅宗冥想 ——请你们明白，所有这些东西 都无法解决这个问题。 真不知道（我）今天是怎么了。 |
| So, let us look at what is happening in our life, in our daily life. Our daily life is based on relationship. Without relationship, you cannot possibly exist. Right? What is our relationship with each other, not you two sitting together - I don't mean that - but with your wife, with your husband, with your boss, with your factory worker, with your labourer - what is your relationship with each other? In that relationship is there order? Not self-centred activity opposed to another self-centred activity. You follow? That is contradiction. I may be married, have children, sex and all the rest of it, and if I am self-centred, concerned about my own success, my ambition, my status, worrying about my... - all the rest of it - and she is also concerned about herself, her problems, her beauty, her looks and, you know, all the rest of it, how can there by any kind of relationship between the two people? You understand all this? If you have one belief, and the other has another kind of belief, or another kind of conclusion, another kind of dogma, there is no relationship. Haven't you noticed all this? So, is it possible to bring order in our relationship with your wife and husband? Not with the universe, not with cosmos, not with God. God is an invention of the intellect. You can have extraordinary relationship with those things that you have invented, with the illusions. But to have relationship with your wife, and husband, and children, so that there is no conflict between us. That's where the order begins. Right? Right, sir? Now, how will you bring order there, because order, we said, - please listen to it, listen to the beauty of it at least - order is sequence in space, we are going to examine this, what we mean by space, what we mean by sequence, what we mean by order. | 所以，让我们来看看 我们生活中正在发生的事情， 我们日常生活中的事情。 我们的日常生活是建立在「关系」之上的。 没有「关系」， 你就不可能存在。 对吧？ 而我们彼此间的关系是什么呢， 不是你们两个人坐在一起 ——我指的不是这个—— 而是你和妻子、你和丈夫的关系， 你和老板、和你工厂的工人、 和你的劳工的关系， 你们彼此间的关系是什么？ 在那种关系中存在「秩序」吗？ 不是那种自我中心的活动， 去对抗另一个人自我中心的活动。 你们理解了吗？ 这是一种矛盾。 我也许结婚了，还生了孩子， 我会做爱，等等这些事情， 但如果我是以自我为中心的， 关心着我自己的成功、 野心、地位， 担忧我自己的…… ——等等这些东西—— 而她（妻子）同样也在关心着她自己， 关心着她的各种问题、她的美丽、 她的外貌，你知道的，等等这类东西， 所以这两人之间又怎么可能 会有任何关系呢？ 你们理解这一切了吗？ 如果你有着某种信仰， 而另一个人有着另外一种信仰， 或者另外一种结论或教条， 那你们之间就不会有关系了。 你难道没有注意到这一切吗？ 所以，我们是否可能 为我们的关系带来秩序 ——在你和妻子或丈夫的关系中？ 不是和宇宙的关系、 不是和哲学意义上的“宇宙”的关系， 不是和「神」的关系。 「神」只是头脑智力的一种发明。 你可以和这些东西产生非凡的“关系” ——这些你所发明出来的东西、 这些错觉幻想。 然而我们需要的是 和自己的妻子、丈夫和孩子产生关系， 由此我们之间便不会有冲突。 而「秩序」就是由此开始的。 对吧？ 是吧，先生？ 那么，你要如何才能在关系中带来秩序呢？ 因为我们说过，秩序…… ——请听好了， 至少聆听一下它的美—— 秩序就是“空间中的次序”， 我们将会来检视这一点， 我们所说的“空间”是什么意思， 我们所说的“次序”是什么意思， 我们所说的“秩序”又是什么意思。 |
| If we have not relationship with each other, there is fear. Either one dominates the other, either they separate but only come together in bed. So, we live a brutal life with each other. Haven't you noticed all this? Don't you know all this? And in what way shall we bring order, so that it is enduring, not one day order, the next day disorder? What brings about this contradiction in relationship? Contradiction between my voice and what I want to say. Probably I should have drunk a little water before I came here. Avanti. Let's go. What brings this division between you, your wife, your husband and your children? Division is disorder. Right? Right, sirs? The Muslim and the Hindu, the Jew and the Arab, the communist, the totalitarianism and freedom. These opposites is the essence of disorder. Right? So, what brings about disorder in our human relationship with the most intimate and not so intimate? Have you ever thought about it? Come on, sirs! Or are you frightened to look at this disorder? Because, when you become aware that your wife and yourself, and the husband, or the wife becomes aware of this disorder, either they accept it and live with it, or to analyse, to go into it, to investigate it, and that may bring about a tremendous change, and there is a fear of change. You are following what we are saying? Ah? Right, sir? There is my friend, at least I can talk to him. | 如果我们彼此之间没有关系， 那么就会有「恐惧」。 要么一个人去支配另一个人， 要么他们形同陌路， 只是一起睡在同一张床上。 所以，我们彼此之间过着一种 残酷无情的生活。 你们难道没有注意到所有这些事情吗？ 你们难道不知道这一切吗？ 而我们要以何种方式带来「秩序」呢？ 由此关系才能持久稳定， 而不是一天拥有秩序， 而第二天又混乱不堪了。 是什么东西造成了关系中的这种矛盾？ 那种我说出的话 和我想说的话之间的矛盾。 也许在我来到这里之前， 我应该先喝几口水。 这个先跳过吧（意大利语）。 我们继续讲下去。 是什么东西造成了这种分裂？ ——这种分裂存在于你和妻子、丈夫、孩子之间。 分裂就是混乱。 对吧？ 是吧，先生们？ 穆斯林和印度教徒的分裂， 犹太人和阿拉伯人的分裂， 共产主义者，极权主义 和「自由」之间的分裂。 这些对立面就是混乱的本质。 对吧？ 所以，是什么东西带来了 我们人类关系中的混乱？ ——不管是最亲密的关系， 还是不那么亲密的关系。 你曾经思考过这个问题吗？ 来吧，先生们！ 还是说，你害怕去审视这种混乱？ 因为当你有所觉察， 觉察你的妻子，觉察你自己， 当丈夫或者妻子， 觉察到了这种混乱， 他们要么会接受它，然后忍受它， 要么他们会去分析它、 去研究它、去探究它， 而这也许会带来一种巨大的改变， 而我们恐惧改变。 你们跟上我们在讨论的东西了吗？ 跟上了吗？ 对吧，先生？ 那里有个我的朋友， 至少我可以和他交谈一下。 |
| What brings about this disorder? Now, I am saying something - please listen carefully - we are investigating, I am not saying it is right or wrong. Is it desire? I mean by desire, the sensory responses with its image which thought has created, and the action, the urge of that desire. You understand my... Zeus! I mean by desire, the speaker means by desire - please investigate it as we go along, don't accept what he is saying - the perceiving, the seeing, sensory seeing, contact, sensation, and with the sensation goes the image which thought has created, and desire - you have understood this? Is this fairly clear? You see a nice thing. The seeing, the touching, the smelling, the tasting and the sensation, the sensation, which is identified with the image which thought has created, and desire is the outcome of it. Right? Clear? So, I am asking, we are asking: is one of the factors of this contradiction, this lack of relationship - I am using the word 'relationship' in its right sense - to be wholly in contact with each other, not merely sensory contact, not merely sexual contact, but to contact holistically, wholly with another. Is that prevented by desire? | 是什么东西造成了这种混乱？ 注意，我正在谈论一些东西 ——请你们认真听一下—— 我们只是在探究它…… 我没有说它是对的还是错的。 是欲望（造成了混乱）吗？ 我这里所指的“欲望”， 它的意思是那些感官层面的反应， 及其「意象」 ——这些意象是思想所创造出来的， 以及那种欲望的行动和冲动。 你们理解我的 老天啊！ 我这里所说的“欲望”的意思， 演讲者所说的“欲望”的意思是 请跟随我们的讨论一起去探究它， 而不要接受某人（即克氏）所说的东西， 我们先是感知到、看到， 感官上看到， 然后是接触， 接着有了某种感官感觉， 而伴随着这种感官感觉， 思想便创造出了某种「意象」， 于是欲望便产生了 ——你们理解它了吗？ 这不是很清楚的事吗？ 你看到了一个漂亮的东西。 你看到了它， 触碰了它， 闻了闻它， 品尝了它， 你有了某种感官感受， 那种感觉， 那种感觉与思想所创造出来的意象 认同起来了， 而它的结果就是「欲望」。 对吧？ 清楚了吗？ 所以，我正在问，我们正在问： 造成这种矛盾的因素之一， 造成这种「关系」缺失的因素之一 ——我是在其正确的意义上使用“关系”这个词， 也就是彼此之间完全地接触， 不仅仅是感官层面的接触， 不仅仅是性方面的接触， 而是与另一个人完整地、 完全地接触。 欲望是否阻碍了这种关系？ |
| So, we are investigating, is desire love? Because with desire goes fear, and one of the factors of disorder is fear. Right? Must you have all these lamps? Phew! So we are saying, the factor of disorder is desire, and fear, and the incessant pursuit of pleasure. We have explained what desire is. With desire goes will. Will is the action, concentrated action of desire. Right, sirs? Just investigate it. And we function, our life is based on desire, will and fulfilment, and with it goes frustration. And out of this comes fear, various forms of fear. Fear of not being successful, fear of losing a job, fear of being lonely, fear of not having love or given love to you, fear of losing attachment, fear of darkness, fear of physical pain, and so on, so on, so on. You are familiar with all this, aren't you? | 所以我们正在探究它， 欲望是「爱」吗？ 因为欲望会伴随着恐惧， 而造成混乱的因素之一 就是「恐惧」。 是吧？ 你们一定要搞这么多灯吗？ 唷！ 所以我们说： 造成混乱的因素就是欲望 和恐惧， 以及永不停息的、对快感的追求。 我们已经解释过什么是欲望了。 欲望会伴随着「意志」。 「意志」就是行动， 它是欲望集中化以后的行动。 对吧，先生们？ 去探究它。 而我们的运转， 我们的生活就是建立在欲望、 意志和满足之上的， 与之相伴的还有「挫败」。 而从这之中就产生出了恐惧， 各种形式的恐惧。 恐惧无法获得成功， 恐惧失去工作， 恐惧孤独， 恐惧自己没有爱， 或者没有人爱你， 恐惧失去自己所依赖的东西， 恐惧黑暗， 恐惧身体上的痛苦，等等 等等。 你们都很熟悉这些事情，不是吗？ |
| So, we are saying the major factor of disorder is the operation of desire, always with the picture of achievement and fear. The fear that has not been resolved by human beings: fear of death, fear of loneliness, fear of not having the capacity to act greatly, and so on, so on. And also one of the causes of disorder is this incessant pursuit of pleasure. So, we are going to examine those three things very carefully because our concern is to bring about order, and to bring about order one must understand this confusion in which we live, and the confusion is this activity of desire with its changing objects. You may not, when you are young, you may not want to have a great status, great position, great wealth, but as you grow older the thing changes. As you approach death, you want enlightenment, god, and all the rest of it. So, the objects of desire change constantly. And fear which is one of the major factors of disorder in our relationship, intimate and not intimate, and the longing, the private, personal pursuit of pleasure. So, these are the major, deep factors of disorder in our life. We have explained the process of desire: seeing, touching, tasting, smelling, the sensory responses, from that sensory response a sensation, with contact, then thought saying, 'How marvellous it would be if I could have that.' Which is the thought creating the image of a car, you driving in it and having fun. So, that is the movement of desire. | 所以，我们在说： 造成混乱的最主要的因素 就是 欲望的运作， 它总是带着那个（欲望）实现的 想象画面、 带着恐惧。 而人类一直都未曾解决恐惧的问题： 恐惧死亡、恐惧孤独、 恐惧自己没有能力 去做出丰功伟绩，等等 等等。 此外，造成混乱的另一个原因就是： 那种持续不断的对于快感的追逐。 所以，我们将会非常小心仔细地 来检视这三样东西， 因为我们所关注的是 带来秩序， 而要带来秩序， 我们就必须了解 我们所生活于其中的这种混乱困惑， 而这种混乱困惑就是 欲望的活动 及其不断更换的欲望对象。 当你年轻的时候，你也许不会 你或许不会想要一个尊贵的身份、 一个显赫的地位、大量的财富， 然而随着你岁数变大， 情况就会发生变化了。 而当你逐渐接近死亡， 你又会想要开悟、想要「神」， 等等诸如此类的东西。 所以，欲望的对象在不断地改变着。 而恐惧 ——恐惧是造成 我们关系中混乱的 主要因素之一 ——不管是亲密的关系，还是不亲密的关系， 而那种渴望， 那种私下里的、个人的对于快感的追求 也是主要因素之一。 所以，这些东西就是 造成我们生活混乱的 主要的、深层次的因素。 我们已经解释过了欲望的过程： 看到、触碰、 品尝、嗅闻、 然后产生感官的反应， 经由这种感官反应， 你有了某种感觉， 经由接触， 然后思想说， “如果我能拥有那个东西的话， 那该有多棒啊。 ” 也就是：思想创造出了 那个汽车的「意象」， 你驾驶着汽车，感到很开心。 所以，这就是欲望的运动。 |
| We are saying what is fear? Please go with me, find out for yourself, because we have lived generation after generation with fear. We have got good brains. We have got capacity to resolve fear, not to live with it. To live with it is to live in darkness. To live with it is to deny the beauty of total existence, the beauty of the earth, the beauty of the sky. So, we have to understand it, not intellectually, but delve deeply into the very roots of fear. | 而我们在问：什么是「恐惧」？ 请跟着我一起思考， 亲自去发现它， 因为我们世世代代以来 一直都带着恐惧生活。 我们有着优秀的大脑。 我们有那种能力可以解决我们的恐惧， 而不是与之生活在一起。 生活在恐惧中 就是生活在黑暗里。 生活在恐惧中，便是否定了 整个存在的「美」， 否定了大地之「美」，否定了天空之「美」。 所以，我们必须要理解这一点， 不是思想智力上理解它， 而是要去深入探究恐惧的根源。 |
| Fear is time. Because look at it carefully. There is physical fear, the bodily pain, the remembering of that pain and hoping that pain will not happen again, that is duration of time. Right? You are following this? Please, if you don't give your mind to it, because it is very important for us to understand this, because the mind demands that human beings be free, because when you are free, life becomes totally different. And a person that is burdened with fear can never be free. And when the mind is enveloped with fear, there is no possibility of clarity, of insight, of pure, unadulterated perception of things. So, we are asking, we are saying that time is the movement of fear. I have had pain last week, the remembrance of that pain, physical pain, and there is the fear that it might come back again. Right? Right? That is one fear. The physical fear of getting hurt, bearing pain, or having been ill and hoping it will never come back again. | 恐惧就是「时间」。 因为……请你们仔细地去观察一下它。 存在着生理上的恐惧， 你有了身体上的痛苦， 你记住了这种痛苦， 然后希望这种痛苦不要再次发生， 这里就有一段「持续时间」。 对吧？ 你们跟上它了吗？ 拜托了，如果你没有认真去思考下它 因为对我们来说， 理解这一点是非常重要的， 因为头脑需要人类变得自由， 因为当你自由了， 才会有一种截然不同的生活。 而一个背负着恐惧的人 是永远无法自由的。 当头脑被恐惧所笼罩时， 它就不可能拥有 清明、 洞察， 以及对于事物纯粹完全的认识了。 所以我们正在问， 我们正在说： 「时间」就是恐惧的运动。 我上周遭遇了某种痛苦， 我还记得那种痛苦， 那种肉体上的痛苦， 然后我会害怕 这种痛苦可能会再次出现。 对吧？ 是这样吧？ 这是一种恐惧。 那种生理上的恐惧， 害怕受伤，害怕承受痛苦， 或者我们曾经生过病， 于是会希望疾病永远不会再来。 |
| Now, can you - please listen to this - can you, when you have pain, physical pain, when it is over, totally forget it, totally non-register it? You understand my question? You have understood what I have said? I am sure most of us had some kind of physical pain of different kinds, variety, multiple kinds of physical pain. When it happens, to observe it and not let that pain be registered in the brain. Will you do it as we are talking? Now, let us look at it for a minute. The brain's capacity consists in registering everything that is happening to it. Like a computer, it is registering. You must have noticed, obviously. The happening to the physical is registered. And then that registered happening is a remembrance, and that remembrance, that memory of that pain brings about fear that it might happen again. We are asking a very simple thing but very subtle. Go into it. You will see it for yourself. Having physical pain, and not let it become a memory. You understand, sir? Do you follow what I am saying? | 而现在，你能否…… ——请听好了—— 在你有了痛苦——那种肉体上的痛苦——以后， 你能否 在痛苦结束之后， 就完全忘掉它，完全不要去记录它？ 你们理解我的问题吗？ 你们明白我刚才说的东西了吗？ 我确信我们大多数人都曾有过 某种肉体上的痛苦——各种各样的、 多样化的、花样繁多的身体上的疼痛。 当痛苦产生时， 请你去观察它， 而不要让这种痛苦 被记录在大脑中。 你可以在我们交谈的时候 就这么去做吗？ 现在，让我们稍微来观察一下它。 大脑的能力就在于 它会去记录每一件 发生在它身上的事情。 就像一台计算机，它在不断记录着。 你一定也注意到了这一点， 这是显而易见的。 身体上发生的一切 被记录下来了。 然后这种被记录下来的事情 便成了一种回忆， 而这种关于痛苦的回忆 和记忆， 它带来了恐惧： 我们会害怕这种痛苦也许会再次发生。 我们正在问一件非常简单 但却非常微妙的事情。 去深入探究它。 然后你就能自己看到这一点了。 在感到了身体上的痛苦后， 不要让它变成一种记忆。 你理解了吗，先生？ 你们跟上我在说的东西了吗？ |
| Now, just wait. You hurt me by calling me a name, or praise me, as yesterday somebody did. Not to register the praise or the insult, so that your brain is fresh. When you register, it is the movement of time. Right? So, we are saying fear is the movement in time. We can understand physical pain. I know, I can observe it very carefully when it is happening, be very, very attentive, or let it happen and not be associated with it at all. I am telling you something which actually happened to the speaker. I am not inventing this. Then, fear is what might happen, or what has happened and the remembrance of it and projecting that remembrance into the future and saying 'I am afraid.' Do you understand? That is, the movement from the past through the present to the future. Most of us are afraid, of what? Look at yourself, sirs, investigate. What are you afraid of? You may not be afraid of sitting there now. Obviously. But when you leave here, the fears come back, conscious or deeply hidden. What are your fears? Fear of death, fear of loneliness, fear of not achieving enlightenment, fear of not being very successful and having a lot of money, fear of being dominated by another whether it is the husband or the wife - what is one afraid of? And can you analyse it? Please listen. In analysis there is... Thank you, sir. May I drink? | 你瞧，先等一下。 你伤害了我，因为你辱骂了我， 或者你称赞了我 ——就像昨天有人对我做的那样。 但请你不要去记录 这种称赞或侮辱， 由此你的大脑就是新鲜的。 因为当你记录的时候， 它就成了「时间的运动」。 对吧？ 所以我们正在说： 恐惧就是「时间中的运动」。 我们可以理解那种身体上的痛苦。 我知道它， 我可以非常小心仔细地观察它， 当这种痛苦发生时， 请对它保持高度的留心注意， 或者任其发生， 但不要与之有任何关联。 我正在告诉你们的东西， 它是演讲者亲身经历过的事情。 这不是我编造出来的东西。 此外，我们还会恐惧 “可能会发生的事情”， 或者某件事曾经发生过， 而你记住了它， 于是你将这种记忆投射到了「未来」之中， 于是你说“我感到很害怕”。 你理解了吗？ 也就是说，那是一种从「过去」 经由「现在」 而进入到「未来」中的运动。 我们大多数人所害怕的是什么？ 先生们，看看你自己，去探究一下它。 你害怕的是什么？ 现在你坐在那里，或许并没有感到害怕。 这是很显然的。 然而当你离开这里之后， 恐惧又会卷土重来， 有意识的恐惧，或者深藏着的恐惧。 你们的恐惧是什么呢？ 恐惧死亡， 恐惧孤独， 恐惧无法达到“开悟”， 恐惧无法成为一个非常成功的、 拥有很多钱的人， 恐惧被他人所支配 ——不管那个人是丈夫还是妻子—— 我们在害怕的是什么？ 另外，你能够去分析某种恐惧吗？ 请听好。 在分析中存在着 这位先生，谢谢你。 我可以喝口水吗？ |
| Q:Yes. | 提问者：可以。 |
| K:It might help. But I doubt it. In analysis several things are implied. There is the analyser and the thing which is going to be analysed. Right? In analysis is implied time. You follow? I have to analyse all the time, that includes time. And every analysis must be complete. Otherwise, I remember, the remembrance continues and with that remembrance you analyse. Therefore it is never complete. You understand? Doesn't matter, you go into it. First of all in analysis, there is the analyser and the analysed. The analyser is the analysed. Right? That is, thought has divided itself as the analyser and the thing to be analysed. So, it has created a division. Thought in its very process is limited and therefore fragmentary, and therefore has the capacity to divide. That which is limited is always capable of division. That which is whole is never, can never be divided. I wonder if you capture all this! Please don't look at me like a guru, that's all. That is the last thing. | 克：它或许会有所帮助。但我仍旧有点怀疑。 在分析之中暗示了几样东西。 在分析中，存在着一个分析者， 以及那个他将要去分析的东西。 是吧？ 「分析」暗示了「时间」。 你理解了吗？ 我不得不 一直不停地去分析，这其中就包含了时间。 而每一个分析都必须是完整完全的。 否则的话，我就会记得那件事， 记忆将会延续下去， 而你将会带着这种记忆去分析。 因此这种分析永远不会是完整的。 你们明白了吗？ 没关系，你们会去探究它的。 首先，在分析之中， 存在着分析者和被分析物。 分析者就是那个被分析物。 对吧？ 换句话说，思想已经把它自己 分裂成了分析者 和那个将要被分析的事物。 由此它就已经制造出了一种割裂。 思想在其运作的过程中是有限的， 因此它是支离破碎的， 由此它便拥有了那种制造分裂的能力。 一个有限的事物 总是有能力去制造分裂。 而一个完整的事物，永远不会…… 它永远无法被割裂。 我不知道你们是否领会了这一切！ 请不要像看古鲁一样地看着我，拜托了。 这是最后的请求。 |
| So, we are saying analysis will not solve the problem. You can discover the cause, and the discovery of the cause and the effect of the cause, and the effect becomes the cause for the next happening. So, it's a constant chain: the cause becoming the effect, the effect becoming the cause. Right? In that circle, there is no answer. You will have to think it out for yourself if you are so inclined, because we are so used to analysis which prevents direct perception. So, we are asking what is the cause of this extraordinary fear that human beings have, both conscious as well as deep, hidden fears? If you observe or look into fear, fear is never actual. Do you understand? You are only... you are recording it either when it is over or might happen in the future. Right? I don't know if you understand this. All right, let me put it differently. Why am I working so hard for you? The other day a man asked me as I was walking out after the talk, he said to me, 'You ask us why we come, what reason, curiosity, this or that.' And he said, 'Why do you speak?' Do you want to know why I speak? Because, sir, - oh, forget it, does not matter. That's not important. | 所以，我们正在说的是： 「分析」将无法解决那个问题。 你可以去发现那个原因， 而当你发现了那个原因， 以及那个原因的结果后， 那个结果转而又会变成 下一件事情的原因。 所以它是一条持续不断的循环链： 原因变成了结果， 然后结果又变成了原因。 对吧？ 在这个循环之中是没有答案的。 你必须要自己去想通这一点 ——如果你有这种意愿的话， 因为我们是如此习惯于去分析， 而分析阻碍了我们直接的感知。 所以，我们正在问： 人类所拥有的这种惊人的恐惧， 它的起因是什么？ ——既包括有意识的恐惧， 也包括意识深处的、隐藏着的恐惧。 如果你观察过恐惧，或者探究过恐惧， （你会发现）恐惧从来都不是“现存”的东西。 你理解了吗？ 你只是在……你是在记录它 ——要么是在恐惧结束以后记录它， 要么是担心它可能会在未来再次发生。 对吧？ 我不知道你们明白了没有。 好吧，让我换一种说法。 为什么我要如此努力地为你们工作？ 前几天，当我结束演讲然后走出去的时候， 有一个人问我， 他对我说，“你问我们 为什么要来这里， 来这里的原因是什么，是好奇心， 还是这样或那样的原因。 ” 然后他反问，“那你又为什么要演讲呢？ ” 你们想要知道 为什么我要演讲吗？ 因为……先生， ——噢，忘了它吧，这不重要。 这不是什么很重要的事。 |
| Like pleasure, at the instant of pleasure there is no recording. It is only a second later that recording takes place. Haven't you noticed it? Have you? Sexual, any form of pleasure as it is actually happening you are totally unaware that it is called pleasure. If you have been angry - I hope you haven't - if you have been very angry at the moment of that feeling, it is just a feeling, but when you begin to name it, which is a second later, it becomes anger. Then you say, 'I must control, I must not be angry,' and all the rest of it follows. So, please just listen - at the moment of a pleasurable thing happening to you, there is no recording, the brain is not functioning. Only a second later thought comes along and says, 'How marvellous that was, that meal was so good, that sunset was so lovely, I must have more of that kind of food, or I must see more sunsets with such delight.' You follow? So, are you aware at the moment of fear, at the second of the thing arising, and as it arises, not to let thought come into it, recognise it from its past experience, say, 'That's anger,' but realise thought has no place at the moment of action? You understand all this? That requires great alertness. So, If the mind is so alert, at the moment of arising this feeling called fear, and realise it, and the very realisation of it, the truth of it prevents thought from interfering. Have you understood this, anybody? Are you doing it? | 就像「快乐」一样， 在你快乐的那个瞬间， 是不存在什么「记录」的。 只是在片刻之后，那种「记录」才会发生。 你难道没有注意到这一点吗？ 你注意到了吗？ 无论是性方面的快乐， 还是任何其他形式的快乐， 当它实际发生的时候， 你完全没有意识到它是那种 被称为“快乐”的东西。 如果你曾经生气过 ——我希望你没有—— 如果你曾经非常的生气， 在那种生气感觉产生的时刻， 那时只有「感觉」， 只是当你开始去命名这种感觉以后 ——这是片刻之后发生的事， 那时它（这种感觉）才变成了“生气”。 然后你会说，“我必须要控制愤怒， 我绝不能再生气了。” 所有这类想法都随之而来了。 所以，请你们听好： 当快乐的事情发生在你身上时， 那时是没有「记录」的， 大脑并没有在运转。 只是在片刻之后，思想介入进来， 然后说，“它是多么美妙啊， 那顿饭菜真是太棒了， 那次日落是如此的美丽动人， 我一定要吃更多这样的饭菜， 或者 我一定要欣赏更多 如此令人愉快的日落。 ” 你们跟上了吗？ 所以，在恐惧的时刻， 在这个东西升起的那一秒， 你是否对此有所觉察？ 当恐惧出现的时候， 不要让思想介入进来， 不要让思想经由其过去的经验 而识别这种感受， 然后说，“这是生气”， 而是要意识到 在这种感受活跃的时刻， 是没有「思想」的一席之地的。 你们理解所有这些东西了吗？ 这需要极大的警觉。 所以，如果头脑能够如此警醒， 在这种被称为“恐惧”的感受出现的时刻 保持警觉， 去了悟到这一点，这种「了悟」本身， 这其中的事实真相，就能阻止思想的干涉了。 你们理解它了吗，有人理解了吗？ 你们正在这么做吗？ |
| So, fear and pleasure go together. Have you realised that too? You can't have one and deny the other. So, to delve into both, see the whole movement of fear and pleasure, and the desire which is involved in fear as well as in pleasure, see the whole nature and the structure of it, not intellectually, verbally, but actually as you see this microphone, then you come to the question that the fear, or the pleasure, is not different from the observer. The observe is fear. Please listen to it. There is no thinker without thought, thought has separated the thinker and itself as being separate from the thing it has created. Right? So, the thinker is always trying to control, shape thought. So, fear is not separate from the observer, yourself. You are part of that. And when you say, 'I must control it, I must have courage, I must escape from it, I must dodge it, I must analyse it,' you are playing a game with yourself. Whereas if you recognise the fact, the truth that the fear is you. You are the result of time, you are the result of thought, put together by various... I won't go into all that. It is very simple. So, fear is you, and when you have realised that, you cannot possibly act and therefore you are observing it purely - when you observe the very thing which you are observing undergoes a radical change. Are you doing it? Will you do it? Will you observe without the observer because the observer is the past and the observer will prevent clear, objective, direct perception. So, realising that, the observer says: 'I have no place in observation,' and therefore the observation is pure. When you observe fear without the observer, which is the past, then that very fear which is being observed, undergoes a radical change. It is no longer fear. At least, will you memorise this? Intellectually see what is implied. That fear and the avoidance of it, or the suppression of it, or the transmuting it, or saying 'I must struggle with it' - all that will not wipe away fear because you have done all those things, and it has remained with you for millennia. And we are saying something entirely different. We are saying, the fear is you. You are the result of time, and can there be observation of that fear without time, without remembrance? Just to look. That is, can you look at your wife or your husband as though you are looking at her for the first time in your life, without all the remembrance of sexual pleasure, nagging, bullying, dominating, without any of that - to look? Because knowledge prevents you from looking. And it is the freedom from knowledge that will end fear completely, not partly. Not this fear or that fear, but the root of fear. | 所以，恐惧和快乐是携手同行的。 你是否也认识到了这一点？ 你不能只拥有其中一个 而否定掉另一个。 所以，你要深入探究这两者， 去看清恐惧和快乐的整个运动， 以及恐惧和快乐之中 所包含的欲望， 看到它的全部本质和整个结构， 不是思想智力上看到它、口头文字上看到它， 而是实实在在地看到它， 就像你现在看到这支麦克风一样， 然后你就会碰到这个问题： 即恐惧或者快乐， 它和那个观察者并没有什么不同。 那个观察者，他就是「恐惧」本身。 请认真听好了。 没有「思想」，就不会存在「思想者」， 思想已经把思想者 和它自己分开来了， 就好像是把自己和 那个它所创造出来的东西分开了。 对吧？ 所以，那个思想者总是在 试图去控制、去塑造思想。 所以，恐惧和那个观察者 ——也就是你自己—— 并不是分离的。 你就是「恐惧」的一部分。 而当你说，“我必须要控制它， 我必须要有勇气，我必须要逃离它， 我必须要躲开它，我必须要分析它”时， 你就是在和自己玩一个游戏。 然而，如果你可以认识到这个事实、 这个真相——即 那个恐惧就是你。 你就是时间的产物， 你就是思想的产物， 你只是拼凑起来的东西，是由各种…… 我就不展开讲了。 这是很简单的道理。 所以，恐惧就是你， 而当你明白了这一点， 你就不会再采取任何行动了， 由此你便能够纯粹地观察它 ——而当你这样子去观察时， 你所观察的那个东西本身 便会发生一次彻底的转变。 你们正在这么做吗？你们会这么做吗？ 你们可以没有「观察者」地去观察吗？ 因为观察者就是「过去」， 观察者会阻碍 那种清晰的、客观的、 直接的「看到」。 因此，在意识到这一点后， 这个观察者说： “在观察中 并没有我的位置”， 由此你的观察就会变得很纯粹。 而当你观察恐惧时 没有了观察者——观察者就是「过去」， 那么你正在观察的这个「恐惧」本身， 就会经历一次彻底的改变。 它不再是「恐惧」了。 你们至少可以记住这一点，可以吗？ 从思想智力上看到它的暗示含义。 那就是：恐惧，以及对恐惧的回避， 对恐惧的压抑， 对恐惧的转化， 或者说“我必须和它斗争” ——所有这些都无法消除掉恐惧， 因为你们已经做过了所有这些事情， 但数千年以来，恐惧还是如影随形。 而我们正在说的是 某种完全不同的东西。 我们说：恐惧就是你。 你就是时间的产物， 而我们是否可以观察那种恐惧， 但却不带有「时间」， 不带有「记忆」呢？ 只是去看它。 也就是说，你能否看着你的妻子或丈夫， 就好像你是生命中第一次 见到她一样， 没有所有那些记忆： 性快感的记忆， 关于她唠叨、欺负、支配你的记忆， 不带着所有这些东西去看她。 因为「知识」会阻碍你去观察。 而只有从「知识」中解脱出来， 你才能终结「恐惧」 ——完全地结束它，而不是部分地结束。 不是结束这个或那个恐惧， 而是终结恐惧的根源。 |
| And in the same way, can you look at pleasure? Right? You have lots of pleasures, haven't you? Sexual pleasure, pleasure of having money, pleasure of having a position, pleasure of being somebody politically - you know all that business - pleasure of having power, pleasure of having a good mind, pleasure of having a good body, the pleasure that comes through comparison with its fear, the pleasure of imitating somebody and becoming more than that which you imitate. Right? There are all these extraordinary forms of pleasure: the pleasure to find enlightenment, which is the ultimate pleasure of seeking God, which is really a tawdry affair. So, can you investigate into yourself the whole nature of fear, pleasure? As we said, pleasure is the movement of desire, broken up in time. To observe it minutely, precisely, with great precision, to observe, not to analyse. | 那么，你能否以同样的方式 来观察「快乐」呢？ 可以吗？ 你有着很多很多的快乐，不是吗？ 性爱的快乐， 拥有金钱的快乐， 拥有地位的快乐， 成为某号政治人物的快乐 ——你们都知道所有这些东西—— 拥有权力的快乐， 拥有一个聪明脑袋的快乐， 拥有一副好身材的快乐， 通过与恐惧的比较而产生的快乐， 还有那种模仿某个人， 然后超过 你所模仿的对象的快乐。 是吧？ 我们有着所有这些奇特形式的快乐： 那种达到“开悟”的快乐， 那种寻找神明的终极快乐， 但它其实是一件廉价俗气的事情。 所以，你能否探究你自己， 探究恐惧和快乐的全部本质？ 就如我们所说：快乐就是欲望的运动， 它是支离破碎的、 落入于时间中的。 而你要去精密地、准确地观察它， 无比严谨细致地观察它， 是观察它，而不是去分析。 |
| So, we are saying the cause of disorder is desire, fear and the everlasting pursuit of pleasure. It doesn't mean suppressing the delight of seeing a beautiful thing, the delight and the enjoyment of a lovely sky, looking at the morning star, bright, alone, or seeing southern cross towards the south - that very seeing of the heavens is a great delight. But the moment thought says, 'I must go back again on that balcony and look at that Venus, morning star,' then begins the whole pursuit of pleasure. Just to look. | 所以，我们在说： 混乱的原因就是「欲望」， 「恐惧」，以及永无休止的对快乐的追逐。 这并不意味着要去压抑它， 压抑看到某个美丽事物的愉悦之情， 压抑当你看到迷人天空时的 愉悦和快乐， 欣赏那颗晨星，它闪亮且孤独， 或者看到南十字星指向南方 ——欣赏天空本身就是一种巨大的快乐， 然而一旦思想说， “我一定要再次回到那个阳台上， 去看看那颗金星、那颗晨星”， 那时对于快乐的整个追求过程就开始了。 只是去「看」。 |
| So, we are saying those are the basic causes of disorder. When you have understood that, not intellectually, but actually finish with it, so that you have joy in your heart. Joy is not pleasure, but the moment you remember the joy saying 'I have had a most marvellous moment of joy, how I wish I could get back to that,' then it becomes pleasure and you have lost it. This is the sequence in our life to establish order in, with our family. | 所以，我们说这些就是 造成混乱的基本原因。 当你理解了这一点， 不是思想智力上理解， 而是真正地完成它， 由此你的心中便会有「喜悦」。 「喜悦」并非快乐， 然而一旦你记住了那种喜悦，然后说： “我经历了无比美妙的喜悦时刻， 我是多么希望能够再次回到那个时刻啊”， 那时它就变成了快乐， 于是你便会失去它。 这就是我们生活中的「次序」 ——这种「次序」才能建立起 我们家庭中的秩序。 |
| And what is space? It's 25 past 6. I think you are too tired. I can't deal with space. It requires a great deal of investigation, space in the mind. That means never a mind that is occupied with any problem. But our minds are so occupied, so crowded with belief, with pursuits, with all kinds of things, confusion, illusion. So, there is no space. So, where there is no space, there cannot be sequence and order. And if there's no order in our daily life... - for heaven's sake, realise this! - in our daily moments of everyday life, your meditation is merely an escape from your ugly life, and escape into meditation only leads to illusion. So, we must lay the foundation to find out that which is beyond thought, that which is immeasurable, that which has no word. But that cannot come into being without this sense of great order in which there is total freedom. | 接下来，什么是「空间」呢？ 现在已经六点二十五分了。 我想你们一定都很累了。 我不能再探讨「空间」的问题了。 因为它需要大量的探究， 头脑中的「空间」。 它意味着一个 永远不被占据的头脑 ——不被任何问题所占据。 然而我们的头脑是如此的忙碌， 塞满了信仰、 追求，各种各样的东西， 混乱困惑、错觉幻想。 由此它便没有了空间。 所以，当没有了空间， 就不可能会有「次序」和秩序了。 而如果我们的日常生活中没有秩序 ——看在老天爷的份上，请领悟到这一点！—— 在我们每日生活中的日常时刻， 你们的冥想只是在 逃避自己丑陋的生活， 然而逃避到冥想中去 只会导致错觉幻想。 所以我们必须要打好基础， 去发现那个超越思想的事物， 那个不可度量的事物， 那个没有语言文字的事物。 但要让这个事物出现， 我们需要有一种强烈的秩序感 ——在这种秩序感中就有着「完全的自由」。 |
