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MA8384T3 - 「生活」同样意味着「结束」
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| Krishnamurti: We ought to talk over together a great many things this evening. We should talk over why human beings get hurt, not biologically but psychologically. And that hurt they carry all through their life. And also we ought to talk over together the question of sorrow, whether that sorrow can ever end, and the implications that are involved in the ending of sorrow. And also, as it is the last but one talk, we ought to also go into the question of what is death. Because tomorrow, if you are here, and I probably will be here too, we should talk about meditation and if there is anything that is really sacred in life. We will talk about that tomorrow but today, this evening – it is rather lovely, marvellous clouds, I don't know if you have noticed it – | 克里希那穆提：今天晚上， 我们应该一起来详细探讨 很多东西。 我们要讨论一下为什么人类会受到伤害 ——不是生理上的伤害，而是心理上的伤害。 然后他们一辈子都会背负着那个伤害。 此外，我们也应该来一起讨论一下 关于「苦难」的问题， 「苦难」是否可以结束？ 以及「苦难的结束」中 所包含的暗示含义。 另外，由于这是倒数第二个演讲了， 所以我们也应该来深入探究一下 关于“什么是死亡”的问题。 因为明天 ——如果你还会来这里的话， 我很可能也会在这里—— 我们要来谈论一下「冥想」， 以及生活中是否存在任何真正神圣的东西。 我们明天将会来谈论这个， 但今天，今天晚上 ——这是一个非常美好的夜晚， 有着无比美妙的云彩， 我不知道你们是否注意到它了—— |
| we ought to talk over together, as I said, why human beings from their childhood till they die, carry this burden, this pain of hurt, psychologically, inwardly, and whether it is possible never to be hurt, to have a brain that has never known hurt. You understand? | 就如我所说的：我们应该一起来讨论一下 为什么人类从小开始 直到他们死去， 都会携带着这个重负， 这种伤害所带来的痛苦， 这里指的是心理上的痛苦、内心的痛苦， 以及我们是否可能永远不再受到伤害。 去拥有一个永远不知道何为伤害的大脑。 你们理解了吗？ |
| And as we also said in the last two talks, if you don't mind it being repeated, this is not a lecture, this is not a meeting, a gathering where one speaker instructs others or informs others. We are having a conversation. Two friends sitting under a tree, quietly, happily, relaxed, talking about their daily life, talking about the art of living, which is the greatest art. And neither of them is convincing the other, not doing any kind of propaganda of conviction or make the other yield to a certain argument but two friends who have known each other for some time are talking about their lives, as you and the speaker are doing now. It is a form of dialogue. It is a very complex question the word 'dialogue', a conversation between two people. I pose you a question, put you a question and you reply to that question. And to that reply, the speaker challenges that question, that reply. So, this process of two people talking together and in the process of talking together both of them disappear but only the question and answer remains. You understand? Probably you have never done that kind of conversation, have never had such a dialogue. We are going to try it. That is, you put a question, to that the speaker replies, and you respond to that reply, back and forth till you have exhausted your prejudices and the speaker also exhausts his convictions so that both of us are free and therefore there is no you and the speaker remaining but only the question remains. Have you understood a little bit of this? Probably you have never tried this kind of thing because we are all so full of ready answers. | 此外，就如我们在上两次演讲中所讲的 ——如果你们不介意我再重复一遍的话—— 这并不是一次演讲， 这并不是一场集会、 一场聚会，在其中演讲者去指导别人， 或者去告诉别人一些东西。 我们正在进行一场对话。 就像两个朋友那样，一起坐在树下， 安静地、愉快地、放松地 谈论他们的日常生活， 谈论生活的艺术 ——生活的艺术才是最伟大的艺术。 他们双方都不会去说服对方， 也不会去宣扬任何个人信念， 或者让对方屈服于某个论点， 而是像两个已经认识了有一段时间的朋友那样， 在一起谈论他们的生活 ——就像你和演讲者正在做的那样。 这是某种形式的「对话」。 这是一个非常复杂的问题 ——关于「对话」这个词， 它是两个人之间的交谈。 我向你提出了一个问题， 问了你一个问题， 然后你回答了这个问题。 而对于这个回答， 然后演讲者对于这个问题、这个回答 又提出了挑战。 所以，这就是两个人交谈的过程， 而在这个彼此交谈的过程中， 他们两人都消失了， 只有那个问题和回答留下来了。 你们理解了吗？ 你们或许从来没有进行过这样的交谈， 从来没有进行过这样的对话。 但我们将会来尝试一下它。 也就是说： 你提出一个问题，而演讲者对此作出了回答， 然后你再对这个回答作出回应， 就这样来来回回， 直到你摒弃了你的种种偏见， 而演讲者也摒弃了 他深信不疑的观点为止， 由此我们双方便都自由了， 因此你和演讲者便都“不复存在”了， 而只有那个问题被留下来了。 你们是否稍微有点理解它了？ 你们或许从来没有尝试过此类事情， 因为我们心中全都充斥着现成的答案。 |
| So first we are going into the art of living. The word 'art' means etymologically join together, join things together. But I think we ought to give a totally different meaning to it. Art is to put everything where it belongs, to put things in their right place. So there is the art of listening, there is the art of learning, there is the art of perception. We are going to go into that briefly. The art of listening, not merely hearing words. The hearing of the words is quite a different process than the art of listening. The art of listening implies you are actually listening, not interpreting, not agreeing, not putting up resistance but listening to what another has to say, so that you are not the translator of what is being said. You don't project your own conclusions, prejudice, opinions, judgments, you are actually listening. And that requires certain attention. And in that attention, you as the listener disappear. You are just listening. If you are listening to those crows and to those birds, you are listening. You don't say, that is the noise of the crow calling, you just listen. And when you do so listen so attentively there is neither agreement or non-agreement, you are just in a state of attention. Not only to what the speaker is saying but also listen to your wife and husband, which is much more difficult because you have got used to it, to each other. But fortunately you don't know the speaker, the speaker doesn't know you, so we can both listen without any prejudices, and which implies great sensitivity, to have your senses active so that you are listening so completely, and if one listens so attentively, there is a certain miracle taking place. It is not a listening of one opinion against another opinion or argument against another argument, however reasonable, however crooked, illusory, but a listening in which there is silence. | 所以，我们首先将会来探究一下 「生活的艺术」。 「艺术」这个词 从词源学上讲，它的意思是“结合在一起”， 把各种事物结合在一起。 但我认为我们应该赋予它 一个完全不同的含义。 「艺术」就是将每一样事物 放在属于它的位置上， 将各种事物放在它们正确合理的位置上。 所以存在着那种聆听的艺术， 存在着 学习的艺术， 存在着 「看到」的艺术。 我们将会简要地来探讨一下它。 聆听的艺术就是 不仅仅是听到那些文字词语。 听到那些文字词语 和聆听的艺术相比，是一个完全不同的过程。 聆听的艺术意味着你是真正地在听， 没有在解释它，也没有同意它， 也不去抵抗它， 而只是听对方所说的东西， 由此你便不会去翻译诠释对方所说的话。 你不会投射出你自己的各种结论、 偏见、观点和判断， 你是切实地在聆听。 而这需要某种「注意」。 而在那种「注意」中，作为聆听者的你“消失”了。 你只是在听着。 如果你聆听那些乌鸦、那些鸟儿， 你就会纯粹地去听。 你不会说：那是乌鸦发出来的噪音， 你只是聆听。 而当你能这样子去听，如此「注意」地去听的话， 那时就既不会有「同意」，也不会有「不同意」了， 你只是处于一种「注意」的状态中。 不仅是去注意到演讲者在说的东西， 同样也要去聆听你的妻子和丈夫 ——这要困难得多， 因为你们已经习惯了， 习惯了彼此。 但幸运的是，你们并不认识演讲者， 演讲者也不认识你们， 所以我们双方都可以 毫无偏见地去聆听彼此， 而这就意味着强烈的敏感性， 要让你的各种感官都活跃起来， 由此你便可以如此全然地去聆听， 而如果一个人能如此注意地去聆听， 某种奇迹就会发生了。 它并不是去听一种观点 反对另一种观点， 或者一个论点反对另一个论点 ——无论那个论点是多么的合理， 或者多么的歪曲和虚假， 而是 在聆听之中就会有「寂静」。 |
| And there is an art of learning. You don't mind my talking like this? Don't so easily, if I may point out, agree so quickly – as the speaker is talking, do it. Listen to that crow. So you listen with your senses naturally, not just with the hearing of the ear but with all your senses awakened, listen to that. Then you don't exist, only the sound. Sound has an extraordinary importance in life. May I go on like this? You don't mind? The sound of the sea, the sound of the voice of your wife or husband, the sound among the leaves, the sound of the waves, the sound of a tree which is very still. The sound has extraordinary importance. And the art of learning is not the accumulation of memory. You go to school, there you are cultivating memory – mathematics, biology, physics and so on, you are being informed, your brain is gathering information, storing knowledge about mathematics or geography, history, whatever you like. And that knowledge remains stored in the brain to be used skilfully or not skilfully in earning a livelihood. So knowledge is static. You can add to it, you can take away from it but the core of it is static. It is not dynamic. That which is dynamic cannot be added or taken away. Inherently it is dynamic, but knowledge is not. Knowledge is mere accumulation of information, of the result of many experiences stored. That which is kept is not dynamic. That which is moving, like a river, that is dynamic. | 还存在着一种「学习的艺术」。 你们不介意我这样子演讲吧？ 不要如此轻易地…… ——如果允许我指出的话——不要这么快就同意， 而是当演讲者在讲话时，就去这么做。 去聆听那只乌鸦。 然后你自然地就会 用你的各种感官去聆听了， 不只是用耳朵的听觉去听， 而是用你所有已被唤醒的感官去听， 去聆听它。 那时「你」就不复存在了， 只剩下那个声音。 「声音」在生活中具有非凡的重要性。 我可以继续这样子讲下去吗？ 你们不介意吧？ 大海的声音， 你妻子或丈夫的嗓音， 树叶间的声音， 波浪的声音， 一棵树的声音——那是一种极度的「安静」。 声音具有非凡的重要性。 而「学习的艺术」，它并不是记忆的积累。 你去学校读书， 你在学校里培养记忆 ——数学的、生物学的、物理学的等等， 你被灌输了很多知识， 你的大脑正在收集信息， 储存各种知识——数学的、地理的、 历史的知识，或者无论什么你喜欢的知识。 而那些知识现在仍然储存在大脑中， 被熟练地——或者不那么熟练地——加以使用， 从而让你可以赚钱谋生。 所以知识是静态停滞的事物。 你可以给它添加一点，也可以拿掉一点， 但知识的核心部分却是静态停滞的。 它并不是动态的。 因为动态的事物是不可能被添加或取走的。 从内在本质而言，它就是动态的， 但知识并不是如此。 知识仅仅是信息的积累， 无数经验储存起来以后的结果。 那个可以“保持”的东西 就不会是动态的。 而那个在流动变化的事物 ——就像河水一样—— 它则是动态的。 |
| So, there is an art of learning. That is, to put everything in its right place. One has to learn mathematics if you want to be an engineer, or a physicist, you must accumulate knowledge – that is necessary. But he is adding to already what he knows. So knowledge gradually becomes static whereas the act of learning, you are moving, never remaining or holding in a same place. Am I conveying something? Are we understanding each other? Do work with me, please, will you? We are working together, you are not just listening to the speaker, you and the speaker are working together, learning together. Not learning, accumulating what the speaker has said and going home and say, 'This is what he said'. That is not learning. Learning is the application now of what is being said and discovering for yourself whether it is true or false. If it is true, act. In the world, theory and action or life has nothing to do with each other. In this country specially. You are full of theories, full of probabilities, possibilities, and say one thing, do another. You know the game you play. So, learning is something that is whole, not fragmented as knowledge is. I wonder if you understand all this. It is a movement as a river with tremendous volume moving, learning. That is the art of learning. | 所以，存在着学习的艺术。 也就是说：它将每一样事物 都放在了正确合理的位置上。 如果你想要成为一名工程师， 你就必须要学习数学， 或者你会想要成为一名物理学家， 那你就必须要积累知识 ——这是必需的。 但那个人是在他已经知道的东西上不断添加。 所以，知识逐渐变得停滞不动了， 然而对于「学习」这种行动来说， 你是在不断运动着的， 你永远不会停留在 或者固守于同一个地方。 我是否传达了一些东西？ 我们是否彼此理解了对方？ 请和我一起工作，拜托了，可以吗？ 我们正在一起工作，而不只是你听演讲者说， 你和演讲者正在一起工作、 一起学习。 不是去学习演讲者说的东西， 将这些东西积累起来， 然后回家，说，“这就是他说的东西”。 这并不是「学习」。 「学习」是此时此刻就去应用实践 对方所说的东西， 然后自己去发现 它究竟是正确的还是错误的。 如果它是正确的，那就去行动。 然而在如今的世界，理论 和 行动或者生活， 它们彼此之间没有任何关系 ——尤其是在这个国家里（印度）。 你们内心充满了各种理论， 充满各种可能性，可能怎么怎么样， 然后说一套 做一套。 你们都知道自己在玩的这个游戏。 所以，学习是某种完全完整的事物， 它并不像知识那样是支离破碎的。 我不知道你们是否理解了这一切。 它是一种流动变化，就像河水一般， 汹涌澎湃地滚滚向前，这就是「学习」。 这就是学习的艺术。 |
| Then there is the art of perception. Perception is different from seeing. Perception is not of time, but the seeing and the translating what has been seen into action involves a certain period of time. Right? I see what I should do and I will do it. The seeing and the doing, there is a gap, interval, which is time. That is simple. Right? The speaker is not saying something mysterious. This is what is happening. You see something that should be done and you think about it. You argue whether it is convenient, not convenient, profitable or not profitable, and so on. All that implies an interval of time before action. Whereas perception is seeing and the doing, so that there is no interval between action and perception. | 此外，还存在着那种「看到」的艺术。 「看到」和「看」是有所不同的。 「看到」是不落入于「时间」中的， 然而「看」，然后将看见的东西 转化为行动， 这其中就会涉及到一段特定的时间。 对吧？ 我看到了我应该做什么，然后我再去做它。 在「看」和「做事」之间 存在着一个间隔、间隙 ——它就是「时间」。 这是很简单的道理。 对吧？ 演讲者并没有在讲什么神秘玄妙的东西。 这就是正在发生的事情。 你看到了某件事情应该要去做， 于是你思考它。 你会争论它是否方便或是不方便， 是否有利可图，等等。 所有这些都暗示着在你行动之前 会有一段时间上的间隔。 然而「看到」则是“看见并行动”， 由此在「看到」和「行动」之间就没有了“间隔”。 |
| I see, I perceive, that I should not be a Hindu because one of the reasons for being a Hindu is for security purposes and also it is one of the causes of war – nationalism, tribalism is one of the causes of war. So I see that, I perceive it – sorry – I perceive it to be the truth and therefore I am no longer a Hindu. But whereas if I say, why shouldn't I be a Hindu, it is convenient, it gives me a certain sense of security, I must go with the current, I am rather too weak to stand by myself, and so on and so on and so on, in those arguments and escapes you still remain at the end of it, a Hindu. Whereas if you see the danger of being a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever, Christian and so on, the seeing the danger of it, you act instantly. You act instantly when you see a cobra. If a cobra was amongst you now, my goodness, how you would act. So, see what is implied in perceiving, which requires attention, care, watching things to find out. So there is the art of listening, the art of learning and the art of perception. If one lives with this art then life becomes an extraordinary thing, because that requires great sensitivity, care, attention. | 我看见、我看到 我不应该成为一名印度教徒， 因为成为印度教徒的原因之一 是为了安全的目的， 然而这也正是导致战争的原因之一 ——即国家主义、部落主义， 它就是导致战争的原因之一。 所以我看见了它，我看到了它 ——不好意思—— 我看到了这个事实真相， 由此我便不再做一名印度教徒了。 然而如果我说：为什么我不应该做一个印度教徒呢？ 这是很方便的，它给了我某种安全感， 我必须要随大流， 我太虚弱了，而无法独立自主， 等等，等等， 而在这些争论和逃避中， 到了最后，你仍旧还是一个印度教徒。 然而如果你看到了 成为一名穆斯林、印度教徒、佛教徒的危险所在， 或者无论什么教徒， 基督教徒，等等， 当你看到了它的危险所在，你就会立即行动了。 对吧？ 当你看到一条眼镜蛇的时候， 你立刻会有所行动。 如果现在有一条眼镜蛇在你们之中， 我的天啊，你们会作出怎样的行动啊。 所以，要明白「看到」之中隐含了什么， 这需要我们的注意、关注， 去观察事物从而有所发现。 所以存在着聆听的艺术、 学习的艺术， 和「看到」的艺术。 而如果我们能带着这种艺术去生活， 那么生活就会变成一种非凡之物， 因为这需要极大的敏感、 关注、注意。 |
| So having said all that, let's enquire – enquire, because in enquiry you must be free to enquire, but if you are attached to your particular conclusion it is not possible to enquire. Your conclusion then directs your enquiry. Right? So, to enquire there must be freedom. We are going to enquire together why human beings throughout the world get hurt, psychologically, get wounded, carry this burden of pain all their life. And when the brain is hurt it becomes neurotic, psychopathic, lives in all kinds of illusions, superstitions. And most human beings from their childhood are psychologically wounded. Aren't you all wounded? Do be a little honest to yourself. Aren't you wounded? In the school the teacher says, 'You are not as good as that boy'. That hurts you, doesn't it? And the mother or the father says, 'You are not as good as your elder brother'. You awaken jealousy, competition, hurt. Right? And those who are hurt deeply, psychologically, inwardly, all their life they have fear, not to be hurt anymore. And so they build a wall around themselves, isolate themselves. Don't you all do this? Are you all people who have never been hurt? Your husband or your wife says something cruel, a passing word, stinging, and that remains recorded in the brain and that hurt breeds all kinds of fears, anxieties, pain. Most people are not aware of all these hurts. If one becomes aware that one is hurt and one sees the consequences of that hurt, then what is it, we are asking, that is hurt? Who is it that is hurt? You are listening I hope, learning. When I say, I am hurt by what you said yesterday, who is the 'I' that is hurt? Please, kindly listen to this because it is your life, not the speaker's life, it is your personal life. And we are learning the art of living in which human beings are not hurt at all so that they have a brain which has no hurt at all. Therefore no resistance – you understand the consequences of not being hurt. | 所以，在说完了所有这些以后， 让我们来探询一下 ——去询问一下，因为在探询中， 你必须要能够自由地去询问， 但如果你执著于你特定的结论， 那你就不可能去探询了。 因为那时你的结论会指导你的探询。 对吧？ 所以，要去探询，我们就必须要有自由。 而我们将要一起来探询： 为什么全世界的人 都会受到伤害，心理上的创伤， 然后一辈子都携带着这种痛苦的重负。 而当大脑受到伤害以后， 它就会变得神经质，变成精神病， 活在所有各种幻想和迷信中。 而绝大多数人 从他们小时候起， 就在心理上受到了伤害。 你们难道不都是带着创伤吗？ 请你们对自己稍微诚实一点。 你们内心不都是伤痕累累的吗？ 在学校的时候，老师会说， “你不如那个男孩子优秀”。 这句话会伤害到你，不是吗？ 而母亲或父亲也会说， “你不如你哥哥好”。 于是你的嫉妒心就升起了， 你会想要去竞争，你受到了伤害。 对吧？ 而那些深受伤害， 受到了心理上和内心伤害的人， 他们终其一生都会带着恐惧， 以免再受到伤害。 于是他们便在自己周围 建造起了一道围墙， 自我孤立起来。 你们难道不都是这样做的吗？ 在座的所有人，你们难道从未受到过伤害吗？ 你的丈夫或你的妻子 说了一些无情伤人的话， 哪怕只是一句不经意的话， 这句话刺痛了你， 于是它就会被记录在大脑中， 而这种伤害便会 滋生出各种各样的 恐惧、焦虑、痛苦。 绝大多数人并没有觉察到 所有这些伤害。 如果我们觉察到自己受到了伤害， 并且看到了那种伤害的后果， 那我们就要问了： 那个受到伤害的东西，它是什么呢？ 是谁受到了伤害？ 我希望你们正在聆听着、 学习着。 当我说：我被你昨天所说的话伤到了， 那么这个受到伤害的“我”是谁呢？ 请好好地听一下它， 因为这是你的生活，而不是演讲者的生活， 这是你个人的生活。 而我们正在学习 生活的艺术 ——在其中人类将完全不会受到伤害， 由此他们便会有一个 完全不带着伤害的大脑。 因此就不会有「抵抗」了 ——你应该能理解没有伤害以后的结果。 |
| So, who is hurt? You say, 'I am hurt'. The 'I' is the image that I have built about myself. Right? Are we together in this? You have images, haven't you, about yourself? That you are a Christian, you are a Buddhist, you are a Hindu, you are a Muslim, you must be a great man, you are a great man – you have all kinds of images. If you are a professor you've got an image about yourself, if you are a scientist you have an image about yourself, if you are a housekeeper and so on, you have images. And it is those images that get hurt. And the image is you. Right? Are we clear on this matter? You get hurt because you are the image that you have built about yourself. I sit on a platform, I have sat on a platform all my life, unfortunately. And somebody comes along and says, 'You are an ass, and you think you are a great man, you have got a reputation, you are a rather silly old man'. If I have an image about myself as a great man, that image is going to get hurt. Right? And I say, I am hurt. So is it possible – please listen to this – is it possible not to create images at all? Not to have an image about yourself at all – that you are a great lawyer, that you are a rather shady politician, or that you are a religious man – not to have a single image. Have you ever tried it? Because the brain creates, thought creates these images because in those images there is security. At least thought thinks there is security in these images. Right? And these images get hurt therefore there is no security at all. So is it possible not to have a single image? | 所以，是谁受到了伤害？ 你说，“我受到了伤害”。 而这个“我”就是我所建立起来的 关于我自己的意象。 对吧？ 我们是不是都理解这点了？ 你们都有着关于自己的意象，不是吗？ 比如你是一个基督教徒、你是一个佛教徒、 你是一个印度教徒、你是一个穆斯林， 你必定是一个了不起的人，你是一个了不起的人 ——你会有各种各样的意象。 如果你是一位教授， 你就会有一个关于你自己的意象， 如果你是一位科学家，你也会有一个自我意象， 如果你是家庭主妇，等等， 你同样会有关于自己的意象。 正是这些意象受到了伤害。 而这个意象就是你。 对吧？ 我们清楚这件事了吗？ 你之所以受到伤害，是因为你就是 你所建立起来的、关于“你自己是什么”的意象。 我坐在讲台上， 我一辈子都是坐在讲台上的，这很不幸。 然后有人过来了，对我说，“你是个傻瓜， 你自认为你是一个伟人， 你声名远扬，但你其实是一个相当愚蠢的老头”。 而如果我持有一个 “我是伟大人物”的自我意象， 那这个意象就会受到伤害。 对吧？ 于是我说：我受到了伤害。 所以我们是否可能 ——请听好它—— 我们是否可能不去制造任何意象？ 完全没有关于“你自己是什么”的意象 ——比如你是一位优秀的律师， 你是一个相当阴险的政客， 或者你是一位宗教人士—— 不要拥有任何意象。 你是否尝试去这样做过？ 因为大脑制造出了这些意象， 思想制造出了这些意象， 因为在这些意象中，有着安全感。 至少思想认为在这些意象中会有安全。 对吧？ 是这些意象受到了伤害， 因此，根本就不存在什么「安全」。 所以我们是否可能不要拥有任何意象？ |
| The image is the recording process in the brain. You say something to me which is pleasant, it is recorded. And when you say something very friendly you become my friend – recorded. But if you say something not pleasant, you are my enemy. That is recorded. So the recording process goes on all the time in the brain, because if you don't record and depend on that record for security, where are you? Are you following all these questions? If you have no image, where are you? You have nothing. Right? You are absolutely nothing. And because of that fear of being nothing you create images, because all of us want to be something. And so we create images hoping that in those images there is security and one finds in those images, you get hurt and therefore security is gone. Now, you have listened to this – listened – and in the listening you have become sensitive to the fact, and you see the truth of it, not the description of it, not the explanation of it, but you see the fact that you are hurt and you are hurt because you have the image about yourself, and as long as have image it must inevitably get hurt. If you listen to this carefully, attentively, there will be no building of an image at all because you see the truth of it. It is up to you. | 「意象」就是大脑中记录的过程。 你对我说了一些礼貌友善的话， 这件事就会被记录下来。 当你说了一些非常友好的话， 你就成了我的朋友 ——这被记录下来了。 然而如果你说了一些难听的话， 那你就成了我的敌人。 这也会被记录下来。 所以这种记录的过程一直在大脑中进行着， 因为如果你不去记录， 并依赖于那种记录而获得安全感的话， 那么“你”在哪里呢？ 你们理解所有这些问题了吗？ 如果你没有意象，你又在哪里呢？ 那你就一无所有了。 对吧？ 你就啥也不是了。 而由于害怕自己变得“啥也不是”， 你就创造出了一些意象， 因为我们所有人都想要成为某号人物。 于是我们便制造出了各种意象， 希望在这些意象中会有安全， 然后我们发现因为这些意象， 你却受到了伤害，于是安全就消失了。 现在，你们已经聆听了这些 ——聆听—— 而在这种聆听中，你们也敏锐地觉察到了这一事实， 你看到了这其中的真相， 而不是关于它的描述 或关于它的解释， 而是你看到了“你受到伤害”的这个事实， 而你之所以受到伤害， 是因为你持有关于你自己的意象， 而只要你还是持有意象， 这个意象就必然不可避免地会受到伤害。 如果你可以小心仔细、聚精会神地聆听这些话， 那你就不会建立起任何意象了， 因为你看到了这其中的真相。 这取决于你。 |
| We ought to talk over together, or rather listen together, whether it is possible in life, living in the modern world with all the extraordinary things that are going on and all the brutality, the violence, the beastliness of things that we are all doing, is it possible to end sorrow? Mankind has suffered for thousands and thousands of years. We have evolved in suffering. We have had wars for the last 5 to 6000 years historically, and imagine the number of people killed, wounded, maimed, and all the people who have shed tears. And in our daily life we suffer a great deal. Suffering isn't merely physical. One has a disease, either it gets cured or it doesn't and you put up with it if you can. But sorrow is much deeper than that. Sorrow is remorse, regret, guilt, feeling of guilt, pain, and the feeling of desperate loneliness. Sorrow isn't something that you casually put aside like physical pain if you can, but sorrow is something that is extraordinary. So we are together going to investigate it. It is not the speaker is going to investigate it and you just listen to it, but together so that both of us understand the depth, the extraordinary vitality of sorrow, the shock of sorrow. Do you listen to that noise, to the roar of that engine or do you resist it? If you listen to the roar of that engine you will also listen carefully to the speaker because both are sounds. | 而我们应该一起来谈论一下…… 或者更确切地说，是一起来聆听一下： 我们是否可能在生活中， 我们生活在这个现代世界中， 所有各种非凡惊人的事情正在发生着， 以及所有那些我们正在做的 残忍野蛮的、暴力的、 兽性的事情， 那么我们是否可能结束掉「苦」呢？ 人类数千年以来 一直在受苦。 我们是在痛苦中发展进化的。 从历史上看，我们在过去的五六千年里 一直有着各种战争， 而你们可以想象一下有多少人 被杀死、受伤或者残废了， 以及所有那些流泪哭泣的人。 而在我们的日常生活中， 我们也承受着巨大的痛苦。 痛苦不仅仅是身体上的。 你生病了， 这种疾病要么被治愈了 要么没有被治愈， 而如果可以的话，你会忍受它。 但「苦」远远要比这来得更深层次。 「苦」包含了自责、懊悔、 内疚、负罪感、苦恼， 以及那种令人绝望的孤独感。 「苦」并不是某种 你可以随意地搁置一旁的东西， 它不像身体疼痛，如果你有这种能力， 你可以将其放在一边， 「苦」是某种异乎寻常的东西。 所以我们将会一起来探究一下它。 不是演讲者要来探究它， 而你们只是听听，而是我们一起来， 由此我们双方便都能够理解 「苦」的深刻意义、「苦」奇特的活力， 以及它所带来的打击。 你们听到这个噪音了吗， 听到飞机引擎的轰鸣声了吗？ 还是说 你会抵抗它？ 如果你能聆听那个引擎的轰鸣声， 你也将能够认真地聆听演讲者， 因为这两者都是「声音」。 |
| So sorrow is a very, very complex affair. Sorrow that exists between a man and woman. Though they may be married and so on, there is certain intimidation, certain fears. Where there is possession there must be fear. If the wife possesses her husband and the husband possesses the wife, or the woman and the man, in that possession there is fear and sorrow. Sorrow isn't just a passing intermittent shadow on life but it is there always in all of us. And is that sorrow, the pain, the loneliness – please, you are not listening to me and taking notes on a pad or in your mind, in your brain, we are examining together, so you are entirely involved in it because we are talking about your sorrow, not my sorrow – And this burden, the pain, the anxiety, the loneliness, the despair, the depression, the guilt, the remorse, all that, all those feelings, all those reactions, contain, hold in that one word. The pain that you can never become the head of something, the pain of your own incapacity, the pain of not being able to do certain things which you want to do, the pain of ignorance. Not the ignorance of books but the pain of ignorance of oneself. All this is sorrow. And also there is sorrow when the husband leaves the wife and the children, the sorrow of divorce and the sorrow of loneliness. | 所以「苦」是一件非常非常复杂的事情。 「苦」也存在于男人和女人之间。 尽管他们也许已经结婚了，等等， 但还是会存在某种恫吓、 某些恐惧。 当有了占有，就必然会有恐惧。 如果妻子占有她的丈夫， 而丈夫也占有妻子， 或者女人占有男人， 在那种占有中，就会有恐惧和苦。 「苦」并不只是生活中暂时的、 间歇性的阴影， 「苦」一直存在于我们所有人身上。 而这种「苦」， 这种痛苦、孤独 ——请注意，你不是在听我讲 然后做笔记， 在板子上、头脑中或大脑里做笔记， 我们正在一起检视这个问题， 所以你也要完全参与进来， 因为我们正在谈论的是你的「苦」， 而不是我的「苦」—— 而这种「苦」的重负， 这种痛苦、焦虑、 孤独、绝望、 抑郁、内疚、悔恨， 等等这些，所有这些感觉，所有这些反应， 它们都包含在、蕴含在这一个字中了。 那种痛苦 比如你永远无法成为某个领导， 因为自身能力不够而痛苦， 以及那种因为无法去做 某些你想要做的事情而产生的痛苦， 还有因无知而产生的痛苦。 不是书本知识方面的无知， 而是因为对自我的无知而引发的痛苦。 所有这些都是「苦」。 此外还有这种「苦」 那就是丈夫抛弃离开了妻子和孩子， 那种离婚的痛苦， 以及孤独的痛苦。 |
| Do you know of loneliness, or is that a strange reaction? We all know what loneliness is. You may be head of some institution or you may have a great many friends, and when you are walking by yourself on the beach or in the wood, you suddenly feel utterly, unrelated to anything, alone, solitude, lonely. All this is contained in that word 'sorrow' – the pain, the grief, the tears and the laughter too. And man has lived with it, is conditioned by it. And after these 50,000 years since man has come into being, man – which means woman too – man has carried this burden. He may go to temples, he may try to escape from it, pray, worship, but that sorrow is always there. My son dies and I shed tears for the rest of my life. The wife who has left me, or the husband, whom I loved – if you know what love is – and that is enormous pain. | 你们都应该知道孤独吧？ 还是说它是一种奇怪陌生的反应？ 我们都知道什么是孤独。 你也许是某个机构的领导， 或者你也许有很多的朋友， 然而当你在海滩上或树林里 独自一人漫步时， 你会突然感到自己和任何事物都毫无关系， 你感到孤单、孤独、寂寞。 所有这些都包含在了「苦」这个字中 ——那种痛苦、悲伤、泪水 以及欢笑。 而人类一直带着「苦」而生活， 被「苦」所制约。 而在人类诞生以后的这五万年里， 人（man）——这其中也包含了女人（woman）—— 人类一直背负着这个重担。 他也许会去参拜神庙， 他也许会试图逃避痛苦， 去祈祷、去崇拜， 然而那个「苦」却总是在那里。 我的儿子去世了， 因此在我的余生里，我一直都在流泪哭泣。 妻子或丈夫离开了我，而我深爱着他（她） ——如果你知道什么是「爱」的话—— 而这也是巨大的痛苦。 |
| So we are asking, not casually, not merely verbally, but we are asking that question out of our heart, whether that sorrow can ever end. It can end completely. With the ending of sorrow there is passion. That very word 'sorrow' contains that word, – the word 'passion'. Where there is sorrow there cannot be passion. Where there is sorrow there cannot be love. Where there is sorrow there is cunning evasion, escape. With the ending of sorrow there is passion, and that passion is love. Where there is suffering you cannot love another. You may pity another. That sorrow is self-pity, self-concern. But the ending of it. Then you will ask naturally, how is it to end? That is a wrong question because then you are asking – the word 'how' means show me a method, show me a practice, show me what to do. But if we are investigating together, learning together about the whole phenomenon of sorrow, not escaping, not trying to find comfort. When that thing happens, sorrow of a friend whom you have been very friendly with dies with cancer and there is the feeling that he is gone. Now, sorrow is a challenge and it is a shock both biologically and psychologically. My son is gone. It is a shock. And the fact is he is gone, and to hold that sorrow in your hands as you would hold a beautiful flower so that the whole depth and significance and the strength and the beauty of that, by holding it, not escaping from it, then you will see out of that holding in your hand, as it were, the whole movement, the reaction, then you will see that sorrow becomes something totally different. And then there is love, then there is compassion, and love and compassion have their own intelligence. Not the intelligence of cunning thought, not the intelligence of human beings who can put machinery together to go to the moon. But intelligence is something entirely different. It is outside of the brain because love is not in the brain, love is not thought, and so on – we will talk about it. | 所以我们正在问， 不是随意地在问， 不仅仅是口头文字上在问， 而是发自内心地在问这个问题， 那就是：这种「苦」，它是否可以结束？ 「苦」是可以彻底结束的。 而伴随着「苦」的结束，就会有「热情」。 「苦」这个字本身就包含了 「热情」这个词。 当「苦」存在，就不可能会有「热情」。 当「苦」存在，就不可能会有「爱」。 当「苦」存在，就会有狡猾的回避、逃避。 而当「苦」结束了，就会有「热情」， 而那种「热情」，它就是「爱」。 当有了苦难，你是无法去爱另一个人的。 你也许可以去怜悯另一个人。 而那种「苦」就是自我怜悯，自私自利。 然而我们要去结束掉它。 然后你们很自然地就会问了： 它要如何才能结束呢？ 但这是一个错误的问题， 因为那时你就是在问 ——“如何”这个词就意味着 请告诉我一个方法， 告诉我一种练习， 告诉我该怎么做。 但如果我们一起去探究， 一起去学习关于「苦」的整个现象， 不去逃避它，也不试图寻找安慰。 那么当那件事发生的时候， 比如一个与你非常要好的朋友 死于癌症了，你很痛苦， 你感觉到他已经离去了。 你瞧，「苦」是一个挑战， 它是一个打击 ——既包括生理上的打击，也包括心理上的打击。 我的儿子去世了。 这是一个打击。 而事实就是他已经去世了， 而你要将这份「苦」捧在手上， 就好像你捧着一朵美丽的花那样， 由此，这种「苦」全部的深度和意义， 它的力量和它的美， 你要捧着它，而不要逃避它， 然后你就会看到：通过这样做， 就好像是把它捧在你手里那样， 你就会看到「苦」的全部运动和反应了， 然后你就会看见「苦」变成了 某种截然不同的事物。 而那时就会有「爱」， 那时就会有「慈悲」， 而「爱」与「慈悲」就会有其自身的智慧。 不是狡猾思想的智力， 不是那种人类的智力， 虽然人类可以组装好机器 然后登陆月球。 然而「智慧」是某种完全不同的东西。 它是在大脑之外的， 因为「爱」并不是在大脑之中的， 「爱」并不是思想， 等等这些 ——我们将会来讨论它。 |
| And also, we ought to talk over together death. Some of us are getting old, aren't we? Including the speaker. There are a lot of young people here. Death is common to all of us, the old, the young, the about to be born, at the end of our journey death is there, you can't avoid it. That is one definite fact. Think if all the people who have lived in this earth had not died. You understand what I am saying? If all the people who existed before we are, lived, what kind of earth this would be. It is a very complex question. Are you interested in it? Or you say, please don't talk on a morbid subject. You, my friend, and the speaker, are going to die some day, through accident, through disease, through wearing the organism out. And slowly the decaying of the brain, gagaism, forgetting, becoming senile. We are using the word 'senile' scientifically, not as an insult. So, death is waiting. And why is it that all human beings are frightened of it? Please, this is a conversation between you and the speaker. Aren't you frightened, scared? If you are honest and if you say look, we are all getting old, terrible war may happen, nuclear war, if there is such a thing, one hopes there will be no such thing, the earth might cease to exist as it is known. The scientists have written about it. If there is a nuclear war, that is the end of the earth. – no demonstrations. If the politicians have their way, and if you are all nationalists, tribalists, broken up, you are helping that war to come into being. You are responsible for it. Don't escape from that fact. As long as you are a nationalist, belong to different religions, you are inviting this war. | 此外，我们也应该一起来谈论一下 「死亡」。 我们中有些人正在变老，不是吗？ 包括演讲者。 这里有很多的年轻人。 但「死亡」是我们所有人共同的归宿， 不管是老人、年轻人，还是即将出生的人， 在我们生命旅程的最后，死亡就在那儿， 你是无法回避它的。 这是一个确定无疑的事实。 你可以想象下如果所有生活在这个地球上的人 都没有死亡的情景。 你们明白我在说什么吗？ 如果所有在我们之前存在过的人 都还活着的话， 这将会是一个怎样的地球啊。 这是一个非常复杂的问题。 你们对它有兴趣吗？ 或者你们会说：请不要谈论这种病态的话题。 你，我的朋友，和这位演讲者， 我们都将会死去， 总有一天会死， 死于车祸，死于疾病， 死于有机体的磨损耗尽。 然后慢慢地，大脑也会开始衰退， 陷入于痴呆状态， 变得健忘，逐渐衰老。 我们是在科学层面上使用“衰老痴呆”这个词， 而没有侮辱冒犯的意思。 所以，死亡正在等待着我们。 那么为什么所有的人都会害怕死亡呢？ 请注意，这是一次你和演讲者之间的对话。 你们难道不害怕吗，不恐惧吗？ 如果你是诚实的， 你就会说：瞧，我们全都在变老， 可怕的战争也许会爆发， 核战争——如果存在这样的事情， 某人希望不会有这样的事情， （因为如果发生了）地球也许就不复存在了 ——或者至少不再是我们所熟知的样子了。 科学家们曾经描述过它。 如果爆发了核战争，那将会是地球的末日。 没有任何游行示威，没有什么东西可以 如果政客们为所欲为， 如果你们全都是国家主义者、 部落主义者，四分五裂的话， 那你们就是在助长这场战争的发生。 你们对此是负有责任的。 不要逃避这个事实。 即只要你还是一个国家主义者， 信仰着不同的宗教， 你们就是在挑起这场战争。 |
| So, death is a great phenomena, like birth. So one asks why have we, living, put death far from us? Right? You are asking that question. You are living, active, if you call active going to the office every day, struggling, fighting, angry, bitter, cynical. And why is it that we have separated life as a thing and death as something else? Why is there this gap, long years? What is important, the ending? Please, or what? The ending, which is death, which is important. Isn't it important, the living is more important than dying, isn't it? No? Right? You don't seem to react to anything. Most extraordinary phenomena. We are asking seriously, not flippantly, not cynically or just for argument, which is important, living or dying? If you could reply, you would say living, naturally. | 所以，「死亡」是一个伟大的现象 ——就像「出生」一样。 那么某人就要问了： 为什么我们这些活着的人， 要将死亡放在远离我们的地方？ 对吧？ 你们正在询问这个问题。 你们都还活着，非常活跃， 如果你们把这也叫做“活跃”的话 ——每天去办公室上班， 努力奋斗、斗争、愤怒、 充满敌意、愤世嫉俗。 为什么我们要把这两者分开呢？ 生活是一个东西， 而死亡又是另一个东西？ 为什么会有这道鸿沟呢？ 这道“漫长岁月”的鸿沟？ 什么才是重要的？ 是结束吗？还是 请注意听，还是说是 别的什么东西？ 结束——也就是死亡， 哪个才是重要的。 它难道不重要吗？ 生活远远要比死亡更重要，不是吗？ 不是？ 对吧？ 你们似乎对任何东西都没有反应。 这真是最奇特的现象。 我们是认真严肃地在问这个问题， 不是轻率地在问，也没有在冷嘲热讽， 或者只是为了争论， 哪个才是重要的呢？ 是生活还是死亡？ 如果要你回答的话， 你就会说：生活（更重要）。这是很自然的。 |
| So what is living? What is your living? What is your life? Don't go off to say, 'What is living?', make a theory of it, speculate, and quote somebody or another. What is your life? That is what you call living. Your sensory responses, your sexual responses, your fears, going to the office from 9:00 to 5:00 for the rest of your 60 years. Think of it, the horror of it. And you say, yes, that is my responsibility because I have got children, wife, uncle and aunt I must support. You know what you all say. Struggle, pain, sorrow, pleasure, laughter occasionally, joy occasionally, concerned with yourself, accumulating knowledge, nothing new, nothing fresh, alive. This is your life and to you that is far more important than dying. Face it, sirs, look at it. So, death comes to you, to us, to every living thing, even these marvellous trees, they will die some day. There is in California, a tree, sequoia, which is over 5000 years old – marvellous tree. Full of age, history, and the beauty of it. That will also come to an end. We are always beginning and ending. Right? | 那么，什么是生活呢？ 你的生活是什么呢？ 你的生活是什么？ 不要偏离主题，说“什么是生活？ ”， 然后搞一套理论出来，去猜测， 然后引用某人的话语。 而是：你的生活是什么？ 也就是你所称为“生活”的那个东西。 你的各种感官反应， 你性方面的反应， 你的各种恐惧， 去办公室上班， 在你剩下的六十年里，每天朝九晚五地上班。 想想这件事吧，它是多么可怕。 然后你说：的确如此， 但这是我的责任，因为我有老婆和孩子， 我还要供养叔叔和婶婶。 你们都知道自己会说的那些东西。 努力奋斗、痛苦、悲伤、快乐， 以及偶尔的欢笑和喜悦， 只关心你自己， 积累各种知识， 没有什么崭新的东西， 没有什么新鲜的东西，就这么活着。 这就是你的生活， 而对你来说，它远远要比死亡更加重要。 去面对它，先生们，去看一下它。 所以，死亡会降临于你们，降临于我们， 降临于生灵万物， 甚至是这些不可思议的大树， 它们终有一天也会死去。 在美国的加利福尼亚，有一棵红杉树， 它的寿命已经超过五千年了 ——真是一棵不可思议的树。 它充满了年代感、历史感和美感。 但这棵树同样也会消亡。 我们总是从开始到结束。 对吧？ |
| So death is something that is final and ending. But we don't want to end so drastically, finally. So we believe in reincarnation. I will live next life, a better chance. I will become the prime minister next life. I will be the guru of gurus next life. I will attain enlightenment next life. Right? So, the organism, biologically there is an ending to it, the physical organism. And also, biologically, as a matter of fact, the brain, matter, is also being worn out by constant struggle, constant conflict, degenerating. Knowledge is one of the factors of this deterioration of the brain, because we depend so much on knowledge. We said the art of living is to put things in their right place. You need knowledge to write a letter, to do your business, you need knowledge to go to the temple, the knowledge has created the gods inside the temple, and the mosques and the churches. So one of the factors of the brain becoming old is the accumulation of knowledge. Listen to it, find out. | 所以「死亡」是某种 最终的、终结性的东西。 但我们并不想要如此猛烈地、 一锤定音地结束。 于是我们开始去相信“轮回转世”。 我还会有来世的生活， 下辈子我会有更好的机遇。 下辈子我将会成为首相。 下辈子我将会成为古鲁中的古鲁。 下辈子我将会“开悟”。 对吧？ 所以，对于有机体来说， 从生物学上来讲，它是有一个结束的， 物理有机体的结束。 同样的，从生物学上来看， 事实上，大脑就是一种物质， 大脑同样也会磨损消耗殆尽， 因为持续不断的努力奋斗， 持续不断的冲突， 大脑也会衰退。 知识就是导致大脑退化的因素之一， 因为我们是如此地依赖于知识。 我们说过：生活的艺术 就是将事物放在它们正确合理的位置上。 你需要知识才能写出一封信， 你需要知识才能做生意， 你需要知识才能去参拜神庙， 而知识也创造出了神庙里的那些神明， 以及清真寺和教堂里的神明。 所以，导致大脑衰老的因素之一 就是这种知识的积累。 请听好它，去发现它。 |
| When you say, 'I know my wife' – what have you done? You have never looked at her, you already created the images about her. So, there is death and there is living. The living is also becoming more and more dangerous, more and more painful, more and more uncertain, confusion. This is our life – quarrelling, struggling, anxious, sorrow, pain, remorse, guilt and so on – this is what we call living. And we say look, dying is the ending of all this. And we say 'I', there is in me something permanent that will go on, next life. But you never examine what is the 'me', what is the self, actually. If you examine it, explore it, question it, doubt it, not accept the old tradition, what are you actually? Face it, sir, don't be nervous. You are your name, your body, your knowledge, your job, your anxiety, your pain – you are all that. You are the words, the picture, the images, and these words, the accumulation of this bundle you want to carry on next life. Is there a next life, as you want it? Or is there no death at all? You don't understand this. We will talk about it. | 当你说，“我熟悉了解我的妻子”时 ——你所做的是什么呢？ 你从来就没有去观察过她， 你已经创造出了一些关于她的意象。 所以存在着死亡，也存在着生活。 生活同样也在变得越来越危险、 越来越痛苦， 越来越不确定， 越来越困惑了。 这就是我们的生活 ——争吵、努力奋斗、焦虑、 悲伤、痛苦、懊悔、内疚，等等—— 这就是我们所谓的“生活”。 而我们说：瞧，死亡将会结束掉所有这一切。 然后我们说“我”，在这个“我”之中， 有某种永久性的东西将会延续下去， 会有「来世」。 然而你从来没有检视过“我是什么？ ” 那个“自我”到底是什么。 如果你检视一下它、探究一下它、 质疑一下它、怀疑一下它， 不要接受旧有的传统观念， 那么你实际上是什么呢？ 去面对它，先生，不要紧张。 你就是你的名字、你的身体、你的知识、 你的工作、你的焦虑、你的痛苦 ——你就是所有这些东西。 你就是那些话语、画面、意象， 而这些话语， 这一大堆积累物，你想要把它们带到来世去。 然而是否存在着那种你想要的来世呢？ 还是说，死亡 它根本就不存在呢？ 你们是不会明白这些的。 我们将会来讨论一下它。 |
| To live with death – not commit suicide, I am not talking about that silly stuff – to live with death, death means the ending. You can't take your money with you. You can't take your family with you. You can't take all your wealth with you, your house, your property, your knowledge. Death is coming and wipes away all that because your brain, because it has not enough oxygen, withers. So, is it possible – please listen to this – is it possible to live, always ending? That is, you are attached. You are attached to your wife, you are attached to your money, you are attached to your ideas, conclusions, your ideals, you are terribly attached. And death comes round and says, wipe all that out my friend, you are dead. You have to wipe all that out unless you believe in next life. If you believe actually in next life you have to live correctly now. Right? Right, sirs? Because you are going to pay for it next life if you don't do it properly now. But you don't believe in reincarnation actually, it is just a lovely conceptual idea. But if you really believed in it, you will be living a life of tremendous integrity, saying exactly what you mean and doing exactly what you think. But you don't believe in reincarnation. It is just a theory as so many theories you have. You might ask the speaker, 'Do you believe in it?', as you inevitably are going to ask. I have no belief, the speaker has no belief about anything. Because where there is no fear, where there is no sorrow, there is something totally different, and that has no death. Compassion is not my compassion. Love is not my love. Love is love. Intelligence is not mine or yours, it is intelligence. So where there is the ending of all this, there is the other. | 与死亡一同生活 ——不是指自杀，我并没有在谈论这种愚蠢的事情—— 要与死亡一同生活， 死亡意味着「结束」。 你是无法带着你的钱一起走的。 你是无法带着你的家人离世的。 你是无法带着你所有的财富死去的， 你的房子、你的财产、你的知识。 死亡降临了，然后抹除掉了所有这一切， 因为你的大脑， 由于它没有了足够多的氧气，于是它便萎缩死亡了。 所以，我们是否可能 ——请听好它—— 我们是否可能活着却不断地去“结束”？ 换句话说，你很执著。 你执著于你的妻子， 你执著于你的钱财， 你执著于你的各种观点理念、 结论、理想、你是非常执著的。 然后死亡到来了，它说： 我的朋友，把所有这一切都抹除掉吧， 你死了。 你不得不将这一切都抹除掉， 除非你相信来世。 而如果你真的相信来世的话， 那你现在就必须要正确地生活了。 对吧？ 是吧，先生们？ 因为否则的话，如果你现在没有正确合理地生活， 那你下辈子是要付出代价的。 但你们实际上并不相信轮回转世， 它只是一个令人愉快的观点概念罢了。 要是你真的相信它， 你就会无比诚实正直地 度过这一生， 说真心话，言行一致，表里如一。 然而你们并不相信轮回转世。 它只是一个理论 ——就像你们所拥有的无数理论一样。 而你们或许会问演讲者，“那你相信轮回转世吗？ ” 你们肯定会问这样的问题。 但我并没有信仰， 演讲者不信仰任何东西。 因为当没有了恐惧， 没有了痛苦， 那时就会有某种截然不同的事物， 而这种事物是没有死亡的。 「慈悲」并不是 我的慈悲。 「爱」并不是 我的爱。 爱就是爱。 智慧并不是属于我的或你的， 它只是智慧而已。 所以当这一切事物都结束了， 那时就会有「另一个事物」了。 |
| So, you are attached, not to your bank account – don't take that. You are attached to your wife. Can you tell her or him, I am no longer attached to you? What would happen if you told her or him this? Do it, sir, find out. What would happen? Both of you would get terribly angry or terribly jealous. Or you are attached to somebody else. But death is going to free you from attachment. So while living daily, to end attachment. You understand what I am saying? I am attached to this house, if I am. I am attached to my reputation, if I am. And to live is to end attachment. And so I am living and at the same time dying. You understand that? So that the two are never separate. So that implies a movement which is not of time. Love is not of time. Love isn't something put together by thought. Thought is of time. Love is not in the brain. Love is something outside of the brain. And to live means also the ending. If you see the truth of this, not say, I will die, I will get unattached, which means nothing. But if you see the truth of it, the depth of it, the beauty of it, the strength of it, then the brain becomes unconditioned, it is not conditioned then through attachment. It is conditioned as it is, as your brain is conditioned to be a Hindu, to be a Muslim, to be a Christian and so on – your brain is conditioned. A condition brain cannot possibly know what love is. It may have sympathy, it may have pity, it may have various expressions of communication, of affection. Love is not sentiment, love is not emotion. It is as strong as death. | 所以，你们是有所执著的， 不是执著于你的银行账户 ——别去想这个东西。 你执著于你的妻子。 那么你能够告诉她/他 “我不再执著于你了”吗？ 如果你告诉她/他这件事的话， 将会发生什么呢？ 去这样做一下，先生，去搞清楚它。 那时会发生什么呢？ 你们两个人都会变得非常愤怒 或者非常的嫉妒。 或者你又会去执著于别人。 然而死亡将会把你从执著中解脱出来。 所以在你过日常生活的时候， 你要去结束「执著」。 你们理解我在说的东西吗？ 如果我执著于这座房子 ——我是说“如果”。 如果我执著于我的名声——我是说“如果”。 但“活着”就是要去结束执著。 由此我在生活的同时 也在“死去”。 你们理解它了吗？ 由此这两者便永远不会分离。 而这就意味着一种不落入于时间的运动。 「爱」并不是属于时间的。 「爱」并不是某种由思想拼凑起来的东西。 思想是属于时间的。 但「爱」并不是在大脑之中的。 「爱」是某种在大脑之外的事物。 而活着 它同样也意味着「结束」。 如果你看到了这其中的真相， 而不是说：我将会死去， 所以我要变得无所执著， ——这没有什么意义。 但如果你看到了这个真相， 它的深层意义，它的美，它的力量， 大脑就不会再受制约了， 那时它不再会受到「执著」的制约。 就目前来说，它是深受制约的， 因为你的大脑是局限的， 它被局限为是一名印度教徒、穆斯林、 基督教徒 等等 ——你的大脑是局限的。 而一个局限的大脑是不可能知晓 什么是「爱」的。 它也许会有同情心，它也许会去怜悯， 它也许会以各种方式来表达 那种交流的感觉、那种爱恋的感觉。 但「爱」并不是多愁善感，爱并不是情感泛滥。 「爱」和死亡一样强而有力。 |
| And so, to live at the highest level, which is freedom, freedom from all the petty things of life. But I have to earn a livelihood. As society is put together, structured, I have to earn a livelihood. I will do it. But that is not the end as you make it, earn money, power, position. Have you ever considered whether power is evil? Power of the politicians, your power over your children, over your wife and husband, power in any form. The temples have power over you, so the temples are evil. All the Churches because they have enormous power over your mind, over your brain. It is like a dictator, like those totalitarian states where you are not allowed to think and act and be a free human being. So, when you understand the whole way of living, the art of living, actually, daily, the art of living, not the theory of living, not the speculation, not the theories, all that, but the actual living of your daily life. Not to be hurt, to end all sorrow, and to understand and live with death, then life is something of an extraordinary thing that you can never imagine or think out. Life then is something eternal which has no time, no beginning and no end. | 因此， 要生活在那种最高境界中 ——而这就是「自由」， 摆脱掉生活中一切卑微琐碎事物的自由。 可我必须要赚钱谋生。 因为社会就是这样构建和组织起来的， 所以我不得不谋生。 我需要这么做。 但这并不是终点 ——虽然你会这么认为—— 赚钱，努力谋求权力和地位。 你可曾认真思考过 权力是否是邪恶的？ 政客们的权力， 以及你支配掌控你孩子、 妻子和丈夫的权力， 任何形式的权力。 那些神庙拥有着支配掌控你们的权力， 因此这些神庙是邪恶的。 所有的教堂， 因为这些教堂对你们的头脑、 对你们的大脑有着巨大的影响力， 它就像是一个独裁者， 就像是那些极权主义国家， 那里不允许你思考和行动， 不允许你成为一个自由之人。 所以，当你了解了这整个生活方式， 生活的艺术， 这种实际的、日常的生活的艺术 ——而不是关于生活的观点见解， 不是那些猜测、那些理论，等等这些， 而是你实际的日常生活。 不再会受到伤害， 去结束所有的「苦」， 去了解死亡，并与“死亡”一同生活， 那时生活就会成为某种非凡惊人之物 ——它是你永远无法去想象或想到的。 那时的生活就是某种「永恒之物」了 ——在它之中没有「时间」， 也没有开始和结束。 |
