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MA8384T4 - 「宗教」和你的日常生活有什么关系？
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| Krishnamurti: I suppose one must talk. | 克里希那穆提：我想我必须得开讲了。 |
| We began these talks with the enquiry: religion and peace on earth require a great deal of intelligence. Peace on earth has not been possible for man for thousands and thousands of years, nor has religion – what is accepted as religion – brought peace to man. There have been religious wars, religions have killed people, blessed canons, warships, religions have tortured, burnt people, humanity, and all religions talk about peace on earth. And apparently we never seem to have peace on earth. This is a fact. Neither in society nor in the environment, which we are slowly, carefully destroying, nor is there peace in ourselves. And we began these talks with enquiry into these two subjects. | 我们是以这个询问 而开始这一系列演讲的： 即「宗教」与「世界和平」 它们需要巨大的智慧才能实现。 成千上万年以来， 人类一直未能实现世界和平， 而宗教也没有能够 ——人们所公认的那些“宗教”—— 宗教也没能给人类带来和平。 人类一直以来都有着各种宗教战争， 宗教已经夺走了人们的生命， 那些“神佑”的大炮，那些战船， 宗教曾经折磨和烧死了人们，人类， 而所有的宗教都会谈论世界和平。 但很显然，我们似乎从未有过什么“世界和平”。 这是一个事实。 不管是在社会中， 还是在我们周遭的环境中 ——我们正在慢慢地、小心地破坏着环境—— 在社会和环境中都没有和平， 而我们自己内心也没有和平。 而我们就是以探询这两个主题 开始了这一系列的演讲。 |
| And if one may again point out without boring you, that this is not a lecture about religion or philosophy, or what is peace and so on. It is not how you should think or what you think but rather together, you and the speaker, enquire into this very complex question of what is religion and if it is possible not only to have peace in the world but primarily in oneself. If there is not peace in us, inwardly, psychologically, then we create a society which has no peace whatsoever, it is becoming more and more diabolical, more and more destructive. We human beings have become more and more cruel, more and more careless, indifferent. And religions have tried to tame man. There have been various commandments, various sanctions, the so-called religious books throughout the world have said, do this, don't do that. And fortunately or unfortunately we have never obeyed them. We just quote them, they become nice slogans for political or religious purposes and we carry on as we are, thoughtless, indifferent, callous and rather brutal in our own activities and thoughts. And the speaker has put religion and peace at the end of the talks, generally, because we have been through the whole complex problem of living, daily living, relationship we talked about, how important it is, that without right relationship there will be perpetual conflict between man and woman, between society and each one of us. Because society has been built together, put together, structured according to our desires, we have made them. | 如果允许某人（指克氏自己）再次指出这一点 ——而不会让你们厌烦的话， 那就是：这并不是一次关于宗教或哲学的讲课， 或者关于“什么是和平”等等的讲课。 它并不是要告诉你 应该如何思考 或者要思考些什么， 而是你和演讲者一起去 探询这个非常复杂的 关于“什么是宗教”的问题， 以及是否可能不仅拥有世界的和平， 更主要的是拥有内在的和平。 如果我们的内在、 我们的内心、我们心理上 没有和平的话， 我们就会创造出一个 没有任何和平的社会， 这个社会正在变得越来越邪恶， 越来越具有破坏性。 我们人类已经变得越来越残忍、 越来越不在乎、越来越冷漠了。 而宗教试图驯化人类。 宗教一直有着各种诫命、 各种惩罚， 全世界各地所谓的“宗教圣典”都会说： 要做这个，不要做那个。 而幸运的是，或者说不幸的是： 我们从来没有去听从它们。 我们只是引用它们的话语， 它们变成了一些很动听的口号 ——用以实现政治或宗教的目的， 而我们则继续我们的老样子： 毫无思考、漠不关心、冷酷无情， 而在自己的行为与思想上，我们也是相当粗暴。 演讲者通常都会把 「宗教」与「和平」这两个话题 放在最后的演讲中， 因为我们已经彻底讨论了 关于生活的整个复杂的问题 ——我们的日常生活， 我们还谈论了「关系」，以及关系是多么的重要， 没有正确的关系， 男人和女人之间， 社会和我们每个人之间 就会有持续不停的冲突。 因为社会是根据我们的种种欲望 而被建立起来、组织起来、 构建起来的， 是我们创造出了它。 |
| And we have been through fear, whether it is at all possible for human beings to be utterly free of fear. And we said it is possible. And also we talked a great deal – yesterday evening – about suffering. The enormous suffering that man has borne throughout his life and past generations, and perhaps the future generations. And we should talk over together as two friends, not trying to convince each other of anything, not trying to do any kind of propaganda, try to convert one to one's own point of view, but together, sitting down under a tree, talking about not only their daily travail, their daily toil, their daily misfortunes and incidents and unhappiness and depressions, but also the two friends are talking about their religion, what is religion. And whether it is possible for human beings who have lived so long on this beautiful earth, whether it is possible to have peace at all, not only in themselves, in their lives, in their attitudes, in their way of daily living, whether it is possible to have peace, quietness, without any conflict, without any problems. And we are together, this nice evening, going into all this. | 此外，我们也充分讨论了恐惧， 人类究竟是否可能 完全彻底地摆脱掉恐惧。 而我们说：这是可能的。 另外，我们也谈论了很多 关于「苦难」的内容——是昨天晚上谈的。 人类在其一生中所承受的巨大苦难， 也包括过去世世代代的人， 或许还有我们的子孙后代。 而我们应该像两个朋友那样 一起来讨论它们， 而不是试图去说服对方任何事情， 也没有试图去做任何宣传洗脑的事， 来努力让对方转而相信自己的观点， 而是两个朋友一起坐在树下， 不仅谈论他们日常生活的艰苦， 他们日常生活的辛劳， 他们每天的不幸、事故、 苦恼和沮丧， 此外，这两个朋友也会谈论他们的宗教， 什么是宗教。 以及人类是否可能 ——人类已经在这个美丽的地球上生活了如此之久—— 人类究竟是否可能拥有和平， 不仅仅是他们内心的和平， 也包括他们生活中的和平， 态度上的和平， 以及他们日常生活方式中的和平， 人类是否可能拥有和平、平静， 没有任何冲突，没有任何问题。 而在今天这个美好的夜晚， 我们将要一起来 深入探究所有这些东西。 |
| Please bear in mind, the speaker most respectfully points it out to you, that he is not investigating. Together you and he are exploring into this very complex problem of what is religion and if there can be peace in the world. Because you are the world, the world is not separate from you. What you are, the world is. What you are in daily life, the world is. That is, whether you are an American, Russian, Chinese or Indian or Muslim, or whatever you are, each human being suffers, goes through a great deal of anxiety, always seeking security, both psychologically and outwardly. And that security is being gradually denied through wars, through terrorism, through all kinds of unspeakable things that are going on in the world. | 但请牢记在心， 演讲者非常恭敬地向你们指出这一点： 那就是：他并不是一个人在探究。 而是你们和他一起在探索 这个非常复杂的问题——什么是宗教？ 以及 这个世界是否能够拥有和平？ 因为，你就是这个世界， 这个世界和你并不是分离的。 你是什么样子的，这个世界就是什么样子的。 你日常生活中是怎样的，这个世界就是怎样的。 换句话说， 不管你是一个美国人、俄罗斯人、中国人 还是印度人或者穆斯林 ——或者无论你是什么， 每一个人都在受苦， 都会经历巨大的焦虑， 总是在寻求安全 ——既包括心理上的安全感， 也包括外在物质上的安全。 然而这种安全却正在逐渐地 被战争所否定， 被恐怖主义所否定， 被各种正在这个世界上发生着的、 难以启齿的事情所否定。 |
| And fundamentally, if we as human beings do not change our whole way of living, our attitudes and expressions and outlook, we are going to create a world that is going to be destroyed. I do not know if you have not read or talked to some top scientists, and many of them are saying, and the speaker has talked to some of them, if there is a nuclear war the whole earth will be destroyed, the whole earth, including your favourite country – India, Russia, America – the world will be totally destroyed. This is not a threat, this is what is taking place between politicians, how to juggle this. And there have been books and articles in America specially, and I believe in Russia also, what would happen to man if a bomb fell in a particular city, ten million people will disappear altogether, vaporised, a hundred million around the centre will be hopelessly ill, their eyes melting and so on, all the horrible things. So we should, as human beings living in this world, controlled by scientists and politicians, shaped our thinking by newspapers, magazines, and by the owners of temples, whether it is government owned or individually owned, we ought to talk about all this together. And one believes that you are here for that purpose, not just to listen, just to hear a few words and go home and pursue the same thing as you have been doing, but rather thinking things out together, not intellectually or romantically or imaginatively or theoretically, but actually find out. | 从根本上来说，作为人类的我们 如果我们不改变我们整个的生活方式， 改变我们的态度、表达和视野的话， 那我们就会创造出一个将会被摧毁的世界。 我不知道你是否阅读过一些顶尖科学家的著作， 或者和此类科学家交谈过， 他们中很多人都在说 演讲者曾经和一些顶尖科学家交谈过， 他们说：如果核战争爆发的话， 那整个地球都将被摧毁， 是整个地球，包括你们最爱的国家 ——印度、俄罗斯、美国—— 这个世界将会被完全地摧毁。 这并不是在吓唬人， 这就是如今各国政客之间正在发生的事情， 如何去努力平衡这件事。 而我们也看到了一些书和文章 ——尤其是在美国， 我相信俄罗斯也会有—— 它们是关于：如果将核弹丢到某个城市中， 那里的人将会遭遇什么？ 那时上千万人将会完全消失，人间蒸发， 而爆炸中心周围附近的上亿人 都会患上令人绝望的疾病， 他们的眼睛会融化 等等， 所有那些可怕的事情。 所以，作为人类的我们， 生活在这个世界上 ——这个世界被科学家和政治家所控制， 而我们的思考则被报纸、杂志， 被神庙的拥有者所塑造影响 ——不管它（神庙）是政府所拥有的， 还是个人所拥有的， 我们应该一起来讨论一下所有这一切。 而某人（指克氏自己）相信 你们来这里就是为了这个目的， 而不只是为了听我讲， 只是听了一些话语，然后回家， 继续追求你以前一直在追求的那些东西， 不，我们在这里是为了一起去 仔细思考一些东西 ——不是从思想智力上去思考， 不是浪漫化地、 纯靠想象，或者从理论上去思考， 而是要切实地去发现它。 |
| So first, what is religion? The root meaning of that word is not very clear. But we know, we have some perception of what religion is, as it is now, rituals, meaningless utterly, prayers, asking God to help you, and you pay in return something, either in coin or through some kind of sacrifice, take vows and so on – quid pro quo, you give me this and I'll give you that. And religions, as they are now, most of them believe in God. Probably you all do. Right? Would the speaker be accurate if he asked you that you believe in God, most of you? Silence? Most of you believe in God. You have never asked why. If there is no fear in your heart, absolutely no fear, would you have gods? And gods are created by thought. Go to any temple, any mosque or any cathedral and all the things apart from architecture, the great cathedrals of Europe have marvellous architecture, structures so enormous and so marvellous, great dignity, like some of the Indian temples and mosques. All those external things are created by thought, good architects, anonymous. You don't know who built the ancient temples of India or the most beautiful mosques in the world or the cathedrals, but what is inside these temples of the world are put together by thought, their rituals, their costumes, their idols are all put together by hand or by thought. | 所以首先， 什么是宗教呢？ 「宗教」这个词的词根意思 并不是很清楚。 但我们可以知道， 我们已经看到了一些如今宗教的模样 ——各种毫无意义的仪式， 祈祷， 请求神明来帮助你， 然后作为回报，你也会付出一些东西， 要么是钱币， 要么是某种献祭， 宣誓入教，等等 ——这是一种「互利交换」， 你给我这个东西，我就会给你那个东西。 而宗教 ——就宗教目前的情况来说， 绝大多数人都信仰神。 你们或许也都信仰神。 对吧？ 演讲者的话是否是准确的， 要是他问你们 你们大多数人都是信仰神的吧？ 怎么不说话了？ 你们大多数人都是相信神的。 但你们从来没有问过“为什么”。 如果你们的心中没有恐惧， 完全没有恐惧， 那你们还会有神明吗？ 神明是思想所创造出来的。 当你去任何神庙、清真寺或者大教堂， 那里面所有的东西 ——除了建筑设计之外， 欧洲那些宏伟的大教堂 都有着令人惊奇、不可思议的建筑设计， 这些建筑的结构是如此宏大、如此绝妙， 无比的庄严，比如某些印度的神庙和清真寺。 而所有这些外在的事物都是 由思想所创造出来的， 那些优秀的建筑师， 那些匿名之人。 你并不知道是谁建造了印度的那些 古老的神庙， 或者世界上那些无比美丽的清真寺， 还有那些大教堂， 然而这些存在于世界上的神庙， 它们里面的那些东西 则都是由思想所拼凑起来的 ——那些宗教仪式、 那些宗教服装、 那些宗教偶像， 它们全都是由人类的双手或思想 所拼凑组合起来的。 |
| And thought, as we said, is a material process. I do not know if you have gone into it. If you have, you must have perceived for yourself that thought is contained in the brain cells as memory, knowledge, experience. We went into that very carefully. And whatever thought has created, which is your gods, your rituals, your prayers, and all the books, religious books of the world have been put together by thought. You might say, they are divine revelation straight from the horse's mouth, but it is still thought that put those words in the books. Thought is a material process because it is the result of experience, knowledge, memory, stored in the brain. The cells of the brain carry these memories. So, God, prayers, all the things that are contained in churches, temples and mosques are put together by thought, whether that thought be ancient or modern it is still thought. So what has thought done? Invented the image then worships the image. You understand? Through imagination, through fear, through longing, through this search for some eternity where there might be peace – thought has done all this. So thought, creating the images, whether by the hand or by the brain, then worships the very thing which it has created. Obvious. So you are playing a game, which doesn't affect your daily life at all. | 而就如我们说过的： 思想是一个物质化的过程。 我不知道你们是否深入探究过它了。 如果你探究过了， 你一定已经亲自感知到了这一点： 即 思想是以 记忆、知识和经验的形式 包含在大脑细胞中的。 我们已经非常小心仔细地 探讨过这一点了。 而无论思想创造出了什么 ——它创造出了你们的神明、 你们的仪式、你们的祈祷， 以及所有那些圣书， 这个世界上的宗教圣典， 它们都是由思想所拼凑组合起来的。 你们也许会说：它们都是神的启示， 信息来源绝对可靠， 但这仍旧是思想 它把这些文字写在了书上。 思想是一个物质化的过程， 因为它是经验、知识和记忆的结果 ——而经验、知识和记忆 是储存在大脑中的。 大脑的细胞中就携带着这些记忆。 所以，神明、祈祷， 以及教堂、神庙和清真寺里 所包含的一切东西， 它们都是由思想拼凑组合起来的 ——不管那是古老的思想 还是现代的思想， 它都仍旧是思想。 所以思想做了一些什么呢？ 思想发明了意象，然后去崇拜那个意象。 你们理解了吗？ 通过想象、恐惧、渴望， 通过寻找某个永恒之物 ——思想认为那里或许会有和平宁静， 思想已经做了所有这些事情。 所以思想，它正在创造那些意象 ——不管是双手还是头脑…… 大脑所创造的意象， 然后思想会去崇拜 它所创造出来的那个东西。 这是显而易见的。 所以你们是在玩一个游戏 ——而这个游戏根本无法影响改变 你们的日常生活。 |
| So what has religion to do with your daily life? If religion is something in the temple and all that, and your life is entirely different, what takes place? Theories, concepts, conclusions, which are entirely divorced from one's activity, business, science and so on. Naturally one becomes hypocritical. May I use that word without insulting? This is what we have become. Say one thing, which is to pray or worship, and do exactly the opposite. And such people call themselves religious, idealists, and they miss the enormous quality of straight thinking and acting. | 所以宗教和你们的日常生活 又有什么关系呢？ 如果宗教只是某种神庙里的东西，等等这些， 而你的生活则完全是另一副模样， 那么究竟发生了什么呢？ 那它就只是一些理论、概念、结论， 它和我们的行动、工作、科学等等 是完全脱节的。 于是很自然地，我们就变得虚伪了。 我可以使用（虚伪）这个词吗？ 我并没有侮辱冒犯的意思。 我们已经变成了虚伪之人。 说的是一套， 去祈祷或者崇拜， 然而言行举止却与之背道而驰。 而这样的人却自称是“宗教人士”， 自称是“理想主义者”， 他们错失了那种 直接思考和行动的伟大品质。 |
| So what is religion? Please ask yourselves, as two friends talking over together this question, what is religion? Man from time immemorial has sought something beyond all this, beyond the daily travail, beyond his loneliness and despair, his conflicts and anxieties, his everlasting suffering. He sought to put aside all this to find something which is not put together by thought. The ancient Sumerians, the ancient Egyptians, and the 5000, 7000 years of Harappa, you know, in Pakistan and so on, all sought something beyond. Because pain, suffering, one cannot endure too long. It dulls the mind, brain, it dulls the quality of love. But man has sought that. And the priests come along, all over the world they have come, to translate that into daily life. He becomes the interpreter, he becomes the guide, the guru, because we don't know what that is, but somebody says, 'I know', and we are so gullible – and I hope you are not gullible now – we are so gullible because we are suffering, we want comfort, we want safety, we want certainty, and we are caught by them. And this is what is happening throughout the world. If you are dissatisfied with one structure of religion you turn to the other. If you are a Christian, you are fed up with it, it is not sufficiently intellectual or romantic – no, sorry, it is very romantic and sentimental – but go to India, there you will find light. They all troop around here, you know what is happening here. | 那么宗教是什么呢？ 请问问你们自己， 就像两个朋友在一起讨论这个问题一样： 什么是「宗教」？ 人类自古以来 一直在寻找某种超越这一切的事物 ——超越日常生活的艰苦辛劳， 超越自己的孤独与绝望， 超越自己的冲突和焦虑、以及永无止尽的痛苦。 人们寻求将所有这些东西抛开， 然后去找到某种 并非由思想所拼凑起来的事物。 古代的苏美尔人， 古代的埃及人， 有着五千年、七千年历史的哈拉帕（巴基斯坦城市）， 你知道的，它在巴基斯坦，等等， 所有人都在寻找某种超越性的事物。 因为我们无法长时间地忍受苦恼和痛苦。 它们会让心灵和大脑迟钝， 会削弱那种爱的品质。 人类一直在寻找“那个东西”。 然后祭司牧师出现了， 全世界各地都有，他们过来了， 他们试图翻译诠释“那个东西”， 使之融入于我们日常生活中。 他变成了那个解释者， 他变成了向导、古鲁， 因为我们不知道那个东西是什么， 但有人说“我知道”， 而我们是如此容易受骗上当 ——而现在，我希望你们不要再轻信别人了—— 我们是如此容易受骗， 因为我们很痛苦，我们想要安慰、我们想要安全、 我们想要确定性， 于是我们便受制于它们了。 而这就是全世界正在发生的事情。 如果你不满足于某种宗教结构， 你就会转向另一种宗教结构。 如果你是一个基督教徒， 你会感觉自己已经厌倦了它， 因为它不够理性或不够浪漫 ——不，很抱歉，它已经非常浪漫化 和多愁善感了—— 但只要你去印度， 你就会在那儿找到光明。 于是他们成群结队地来到了这里， 你们都知道这里所发生的事情。 |
| So this has been the long struggle throughout the centuries, to find something which is not of time, which is not of thought, which is not put together by thought, something totally immeasurable. And he has imagined it, said there is heaven and hell, in heaven there is peace, not on earth, not in our daily life, but in heaven there is peace. So you have postponed or put away peace from daily life. So together we ought to investigate this, if you are serious and interested, because it is your life. And is there something beyond all this? Is there something that is sacred? We are going to investigate that very carefully. | 所以这就是人类世世代代以来漫长的努力奋斗， 去找到某种“不属于时间”的事物， 某种“不属于思想”的事物， 某种并非由思想所拼凑起来的事物， 某种完全不可度量的事物。 而人们会想象它， 说存在着天国和地狱， 在天国里有着和平宁静， 在地球上、在我们的日常生活中 则没有和平宁静， 但在天国中会有和平宁静。 所以你们已经拖延了它（和平宁静）， 或者说已经把和平宁静从日常生活中拿走了。 所以我们应该一起来探究一下它， 如果你是认真的，并且也有兴趣的话， 因为这是你的生活。 所以，是否存在某种超越这一切的东西呢？ 是否存在某种「神圣之物」呢？ 我们将会非常小心仔细地 来探究这一点。 |
| And also we ought to consider together, what is peace? The obvious meaning is not to have conflict, not to have pain, not to suffer, not to have everlasting struggle from the moment you are born till you die. That is, to have no problems at all and no conflict. Is that possible? Is it possible to live in this world, not run away from the world, is it possible to live a life, a daily life without a single shadow of conflict? If you say it is not possible then you have shut the door. Or if you say yes, it is possible, you have also shut the door. But if you begin to enquire, if you begin to explore, neither saying it is possible or not possible, to learn, to go very deeply into this question, whether man, you, living in this town, married or unmarried, family and so on, job, responsibilities, whether you can live completely at peace with yourself. Of course you can if you are neurotic, psychopathic. You can imagine you are in heaven or believe in some fantastic thing and you live with that. And so you have closed yourself in a belief and imagine in that belief you are living at peace. But all that is rather childish, immature and mediocre. | 此外，我们也应该一起来思考一下： 什么是「和平宁静」？ 它显而易见的含义就是：没有冲突， 没有痛苦，没有受苦， 没有永无止尽的挣扎斗争 ——从你出生的那一刻起直到你死去。 换句话说就是：完全没有任何问题， 也没有任何冲突。 这可能吗？ 我们是否可能生活在这个世界上， 而不是逃离这个世界， 我们是否可能过这样一种生活， 日常生活 ——在其中没有丝毫冲突的阴影？ 如果你说“这不可能”， 那你就关闭了那扇门。 或者如果你说“是的，这是可能的”， 你同样也关闭了那扇门。 但如果你开始去探询， 如果你开始去探索， 不说它可能或者不可能， 而是去学习， 去非常深入地探究这个问题： 即 人类——也就是你， 生活在这个小镇， 不管结婚还是没结婚， 有没有家庭，等等， 工作、各种责任， 你是否能够在生活中 达到自我内心完全的和平宁静？ 你当然可以了——如果你是神经质的、 精神错乱的。 你可以想象自己正身处天国， 或者相信某种异想天开的事情， 然后你就活在这些东西中。 由此你就将自己封闭在了信仰中， 然后在那种信仰中去想象 你正活在和平宁静中。 然而所有这些都是相当幼稚的、 不成熟的、平庸的。 |
| The word 'mediocre' means, the root meaning of that word, is never going to the top of the hill but always part of the hill. That is the meaning of the word 'mediocre'. You may be good at your business, as a great scientist, as a philosopher, as a professor, as a good carpenter, but your life may be mediocre. We are not talking about good professional careers, which you are all good at, but we are talking about mediocrity, the mediocre brain. And not having a mediocre brain, which is to live at your highest capacity, not your capacity expressed in some business or in some profession, but to live inwardly a life of great austerity, integrity. The word 'austerity' comes from Greek, which means to have a dry mouth. Which is, those people who are austere generally are very dry, hard, stern, one or two loin cloths. That is not austerity. Austerity is the quality of a brain that is whole, not broken up, that has great depth and integrity, and there is no shadow of conflict. | “平庸”这个词的意思是 这个词的词根含义是： 从来不攀登到山顶， 永远都只是爬到山的某个部分。 这就是“平庸”这个词的意思。 你或许很擅长你的职业 ——你是一位了不起的科学家、 一位哲学家、一位教授、一个优秀的木匠， 然而你的生活也许是平庸的。 我们并没有在谈论 那些成功出色的职业生涯 ——这是你们都很擅长的事情， 我们正在谈论的是「平庸」， 那个平庸的大脑。 而不再有平庸的大脑 ——就是要以你最高的能力去生活， 但它不是你在 某些行业或职业中表现出来的能力， 而是要在内心去过一种 极其「简朴」和正直的生活。 「简朴」这个词 来自于希腊语， 它的意思是“变得口干舌燥”。 也就是：那些生活简朴、严厉苦行的人， 他们通常都是非常口渴的、 艰苦的、认真的， 他们只穿一两条腰布。 但这并不是「简朴」。 简朴是一种大脑的品质 ——这个大脑是完整的、不分裂的， 它有着非凡的深度和完整性， 且没有冲突的阴影。 |
| So we are going together to examine whether it is possible to live in the modern world without any conflict. What is conflict? Please, bear in mind all the time that you and the speaker are having a friendly conversation and as they are friends talking about life, you are asking the question, not the speaker. So you are asking the question, what is conflict, why do we live in conflict? Are we aware that we live in conflict? Or we have become so hardened, so callous, indifferent, that we accept everything, the squalor, the poverty, the misery, the confusion, and naturally conflict, we put up with it. But if you begin to enquire whether it is possible to live without conflict then you have to ask – I hope you are asking – what is contradiction? And also you have to ask, as long as there is measurement, which is comparison, there must be conflict. Right? Are we meeting each other? Most of our life is based on comparison in school, colleges, universities, you are always comparing. Your degrees are the result of comparison. And where there is comparison there must be conflict. Measure – you are tall, I am short, or I am black and you are white, or pink. It is always comparison. You are bright, I am not. I want to be bright like you. You look so nice and I am not nice-looking. So there is this conflict of comparison. So can you live without a single movement of comparison? Do it, sirs, you will see. Then you will see that what is important is what you are, not what you should be or what you want to become. | 所以我们将会一起来检视一下， 那就是：我们是否可能 生活在这个现代世界中， 却没有任何冲突。 什么是冲突？ 请你们始终要牢记在心： 那就是你和演讲者 正在进行一场友好的交谈， 他们就像朋友那样在谈论生活， 你正在提出问题，而不是演讲者。 所以你正在问这个问题：什么是冲突？ 为什么我们会生活在冲突之中？ 我们是否意识到自己正活在冲突中？ 还是说 我们已经变得如此麻木不仁、 如此冷酷无情、如此漠不关心， 以至于我们接受了一切事物 ——肮脏、贫穷、苦难、混乱困惑， 于是很自然地，我们就会有冲突， 而我们容忍了它。 但如果你开始去探询这一点： 即：我们是否可能没有冲突地生活， 那你就必须要问了 ——我希望你会询问—— 什么是「矛盾」？ 此外 你也必须要询问这一点： 那就是 只要还是存在「量度」 ——量度就是「比较」—— 那就必然会有冲突。 对吧？ 我们是否彼此理解了对方？ 我们大多数人的生活 都是建立在「比较」之上的 ——在学校里、在专科学院里、在大学里， 你们一直在互相比较。 你们的学位就是比较的产物。 然而当有了比较，就必定会有冲突。 那种度量 ——你很高，我很矮， 或者我是黑皮肤的， 而你是白皮肤的 或者粉色皮肤的。 总是会有比较。 你很聪明伶俐，而我却不是。 所以我想要像你一样的聪明。 你看起来这么漂亮， 而我却长得不好看。 所以存在着这种 由「比较」而引发的冲突。 那么你能否没有丝毫比较地生活呢？ 去这样做一下，先生们，然后你就会明白了。 那时你就会看到： 重要的是你的真实模样， 而不是“你应该成为什么” 或者“你想要变成什么”。 |
| And also conflict arises when there is separation, when there is duality, the opposite, I am this, I will be that. I am violent but I will pursue non-violence, which is the opposite. So, is there opposite at all? Are you following all this? Does it interest you, all this? Or you have gone to sleep? It is a comfortable place – I hope you are all comfortable. And you have been challenged, questioned, asked. You have to respond. Of course, there are so many people you can't all respond at once. There would be too much noise. But if you respond to yourself, find out, is there opposite at all? There is the opposite: man, woman, dark, light, sun rising, sun setting, but psychologically, inwardly is there an opposite? I know – no, I don't know – people have told me, there are some theories that only the enlightened have no opposites. I don't believe it. No, I question it rather, not believe. I think that is nonsense. There is only 'what is'. That is, violence is the fact, non-violence is non-fact. So the brain has created the non-fact because it is incapable of dealing with the fact. If you know how to put an engine right then there is no problem, but if you don't know how to deal with 'what is', your violence or whatever it is, then you must invariably invent its opposite, because through the opposite you hope some day to achieve or change 'what is'. I hope you are following all this. | 此外，当有了分离，冲突也会产生， 当有了二元性、对立面，冲突就出现了 我是这样的，但我将会变成那样的。 我是暴力的，但我将会追求“非暴力” ——“非暴力”就是对立面。 那么，究竟是否存在对立面呢？ 你们跟上所有这些了吗？ 你们对它感兴趣吗？所有这些东西？ 还是说 你们已经睡着了？ 这是一个很舒服的地方 ——我希望你们都感到很舒服。 由于你们已经接收到了挑战、质疑和提问。 所以你们必须要作出回应。 当然了，这里有那么多的人， 你们不能所有人同时作出回应。 那样的话就太吵闹了。 但如果你能在自己内心作出回应， 去搞清楚这一点： 即 对立面究竟是否存在？ 存在着这类对立面： 男人、女人，黑暗、光明， 太阳升起、太阳落下， 然而心理上，内在而言， 对立面存在吗？ 我知道——不，我不知道—— 有人曾经告诉我说： 有一些理论认为， 只有“开悟之人”才没有对立面。 我不相信这回事。 不，更确切地说，我质疑这一点， 而不只是“不相信”。 我认为这是在胡说八道。 存在的只有“真实现状”。 换句话说，暴力是事实， 而“非暴力”并不是事实。 所以大脑已经制造出了“非事实”的东西， 因为它没有能力去处理事实。 对吧？ 如果你知道如何把引擎修好， 那就不会有什么问题了， 但如果你不知道如何去处理“真实现状”， 如何去处理你的暴力 或者无论什么东西， 你就必定总是会发明出它的对立面， 因为你希望通过对立面，有朝一日可以达到目标， 或者改变“真实现状”。 我希望你们跟上了所有这些东西。 |
| So, we are saying there is no opposite, except you are tall, I am short and all that, physically we are different, but psychologically, inwardly there is only the fact, and how to deal with the fact. If you know how to deal with it there is no opposite. So we are going to investigate together whether we can look at the fact, the fact being violence, fear, sorrow, callousness, concern with oneself. These are all facts. Whether there is heaven, whether one day you will be enlightened, all that is non-fact, it has no meaning. But if that has a meaning and you hold on to it, and you are avoiding 'what is' there must be conflict because there is duality. There is conflict when you say one thing and do another, think one thing and act totally differently to what you think. It is what you are all doing. | 所以，我们说：并不存在什么“对立面”， 除了你很高 我很矮，等等这类事情， 生理上而言，我们是不同的， 然而心理上来说，内在而言， 存在的只有事实， 以及如何去处理那个事实。 如果你知道如何去处理事实， 那就不存在什么对立面了。 所以我们将要一起来探究这一点： 即我们是否能够去观察那个事实： 事实就是暴力、恐惧、痛苦、冷漠无情， 只关心自己。 这些全都是事实。 然而是否存在“天国”， 是否有朝一日你将会“开悟” ——所有这些都不是事实， 它并没有什么意义。 但如果它具有了某种意义， 然后你紧抓着它不放， 那你就是在回避“真实现状”了， 那时就必定会有冲突，因为有了二元性。 是吧？ 当你说一套做一套的时候，就会有冲突， 想的是一套，然而行动却大相径庭。 这就是你们都在做的事情。 |
| So, is it possible to understand violence, fear? Which is what we have, not create the opposite but comprehend, learn, investigate 'what is'. If you take any subject, any reaction, like violence, because that is fairly common for all of us – we are all rather violent people, aggressive. We may not be aggressive in one direction but in other directions we are. Now, we are violent people, that is a fact. How do you look at violence? Is violence separate from you? If you say non-violence we are pursuing, that is totally separate from you, because you have no relationship to it actually, but what you are is violent. So can you look at that violence and understand the nature and the structure and the depth of that violence. That is to perceive, apprehend, learn about the whole content of violence. Violence is not only physical but much more psychological, inward. Now, what happens? I am going to go into it, if you are interested in it. | 所以，我们是否可能去了解暴力和恐惧？ 它们才是我们所拥有的东西， 不要制造出对立面， 而是去理解、去学习、去探究“真实现状”。 如果你去研究任何对象、任何反应 ——比如「暴力」， 因为暴力普遍存在于我们所有人身上 ——我们都是相当暴力的人，富有攻击性。 我们或许在某一个方面没有攻击性， 然而在其他一些方面，我们却是有攻击性的。 你瞧，我们都是暴力之人，这是一个事实。 那么你要如何去观察暴力呢？ 暴力和你是分离的吗？ 如果你说我们正在追求“非暴力”， 那么暴力和你就是完全分离的， 因为你实际上和它并没有什么关系， 然而你的真实情况则是暴力。 所以你能否观察那个暴力， 然后去了解暴力的本质、结构 和深层意义。 也就是去看、去理解、 去学习关于暴力的全部内容。 暴力不仅仅是身体层面的， 而更多的是心理层面的、内在的。 所以，发生了什么呢？ 如果你们对此感兴趣的话， 我将会来深入探讨它。 |
| I am violent – suppose the speaker is violent – angry, irritated, imitating, conforming, all those are patterns of violence, conformity, comparison, anger, jealousy and so on. That word 'violence' contains all that. Now, I am violent. That is a fact. How do I look at it, how do I understand it, how do I explore it? Please do this as we are talking. First of all, is that violence different from me? You understand? Is anger, jealousy, fear, separate from me? Or I am that? I know you will say, 'Who is looking?' We are going to go into it. First of all we must be very clear that violence is not something apart from me, I am violent. Right? Would you acknowledge that fact? Or you would say, who is it that is witnessing, observing violence? The observer is the past. Right? The observer who says, 'I am violent', and sees the nature of violence, the observer, the looker, the investigator is the past, his memories of violence, the word 'violence' is part of memory and so on. The observer is the past. Clear? With the past you are looking at the present violence. The present violence is a reaction, and in that reaction you are looking from the past. The past is looking at that. So what takes place? You have used the word 'violence', which is the past, because you have been violent before, and you recognise it – please follow all this carefully – you recognise the new reaction and say that is violent. So the past memory with its word recognises the present reaction. So you have separated the present from the past. The observer is the past looking at the present. So there is duality, and so there is conflict. And so they say, how am I to suppress violence, I will pursue non-violence and all those tricks you play. But actually you are violent. That is a fact. Can you hold that fact, not move away from that fact. That is, to observe without the observer. You understand? Therefore to observe without the knowledge of the past. Sir, don't agree, it requires great attention, great pause, silent observation, to look at violence without a single word, without the whole operation of the past interfering in your observation. The observer is the observed. Right? This is difficult for you to accept or to see because all our life we have – sorry – all our life we have separated, we are Hindus, you are a Muslim, those are titles, the result of propaganda, but we are human beings. So is it possible to live without duality? That is, to say one thing and keep to that, not double-talk. Remain with violence, understand its nature, look at it, which is to observe without the past. This requires, as I said, a great deal of attention, the urge to learn, not to condemn. | 我是暴力的——假设演讲者是暴力的—— 我是愤怒的、恼火的、 模仿的、遵从的， 所有这些都是暴力的模式， 遵从、比较、 愤怒、嫉妒，等等。 “暴力”这个词就包含了所有这些东西。 好了，我是暴力的——这是一个事实。 那么我要如何去观察它呢？ 我要如何去了解它呢？ 我要如何去探究它呢？ 在我们谈话的时候，请你们就这样去做。 首先，那个暴力，它和我是不同的吗？ 你们理解了吗？ 愤怒、 嫉妒、恐惧，它和我是分离的吗？ 还是说，我就是这些东西？ 我知道你们会说，“那么是谁在观察呢？ ” 我们也将会来探讨这一点的。 但首先，我们必须非常清楚这一点： 即「暴力」并不是某种与我分离的东西， 因为我就是暴力的。 对吧？ 你们愿意承认这个事实吗？ 或者你们会说：是谁在目睹、在观察暴力呢？ 那个观察者就是「过去」。 对吧？ 那个观察者说，“我是暴力的”， 然后他去审视暴力的本质， 然而那个观察者，那个观看者， 那个探究者，他就是「过去」， 他有着关于暴力的记忆， “暴力”这个词就是记忆的一部分，等等。 那个观察者就是「过去」。 清楚了吗？ 你带着「过去」去观察当下的暴力。 对吧？ 而当下的暴力是一种反应， 在这种反应中，你是经由「过去」来观察的。 因此是「过去」在看着那个东西。 所以发生了什么呢？ 你已经使用了“暴力”这个词 ——这个词就是「过去」， 因为你以前曾经暴力过， 于是你识别了这种暴力 ——请你们小心仔细地跟上这一切—— 你识别了那种新的反应，然后说“这是暴力”。 所以，过去的记忆及其词语文字， 它们识别了当下的这种反应。 因此，你已经把「当下」和「过去」分开了。 那个观察者，他就是「过去」， 他在观察着当下。 由此便有了二元性， 从而有了冲突。 然后人们会说： 我要如何才能抑制暴力呢， 我将会去追求“非暴力”， 所有那些你们在玩的把戏。 然而实际上，你们还是暴力的。 这才是事实。 那么你能否停留在这个事实上， 而不要离开这个事实呢？ 换句话说：去观察而没有那个观察者。 你们理解了吗？ 由此你就是没有带着过去的知识在观察。 先生，请不要同意， 它需要极大的「注意」， 极大的踌躇， 以及安静的观察， 去观看「暴力」而不带着任何文字词语， 也没有所有「过去」的活动 ——它们会干扰你的观察。 观察者就是被观察物。 对吧？ 这一点对你们来说很难接受， 或者说 你们很难看到这一点， 因为终其一生，我们都 ——不好意思—— 终其一生，我们都是彼此分离独立的， 我们是印度教徒，而你们是穆斯林， 然而这些都只是称谓，是宣传洗脑的结果， 本质上我们都是「人类」。 所以我们是否可能没有二元性地生活？ 换句话说，你要言行一致， 而不要讲空话。 和暴力待在一起， 去了解它的本质，去观察它， 也就是不带着「过去」地去观察。 就如我说过的，这需要极大的「注意」， 那种想要去学习的冲动欲望， 而不是去谴责。 |
| So, we are asking is it possible to live without conflict. The speaker is saying it is possible. Which means, I will make it a little more complex, which means never recording. Never recording, whether insult or flattery or any incident, psychological incident, never recording. You understand? Are we understanding each other, even intellectually, verbally? The brain is recording. You are now recording what the speaker is saying. You may not be aware of it, you have been recording, like a tape on which this talk is being registered. So the brain is recording. Can that recording stop? The recording is knowledge and the recording of that knowledge, recording knowledge is safety, security. And we are frightened to let go, to look at things afresh. So, not to record. Not to record when your wife or your husband says, 'You are a fool', I hope your husband and wife say, 'You are a fool'. Not to record that word or the feeling of that word. | 所以，我们正在问： 是否可能没有冲突地生活。 演讲者说 这是可能的。 它的意思就是： 我将会把它讲得稍微复杂一点， 它意味着：永远不要去记录。 永远不去记录， 不管那是侮辱也好、奉承也好， 还是任何其他事件， 对于心理上发生的事情，永远不要去记录。 你们明白了吗？ 我们是否彼此理解了对方 ——哪怕只是思想智力上、口头文字上的理解？ 大脑正在记录着。 你现在正在记录着演讲者在说的东西。 你也许并没有意识到它，但你一直在记录着， 就像正在录制这次演讲的磁带一样。 所以大脑正在记录着。 那么这种记录可以停止吗？ 这种记录就是知识， 而对于知识的记录， 记录知识就是安全、就是保障。 而我们害怕放手，害怕去崭新地看待事物。 所以，不要去记录。 当你的妻子或丈夫说“你是个傻瓜”的时候， 请不要去记录。 我希望你的丈夫或妻子会说“你是个傻瓜”。 那时请不要去记录那个词语， 或者那个词语所引发的感受。 |
| Our brains have become like the computer. The scientists and the experts who are building computers are saying, pouring millions and billions of dollars, both in Japan and America, to create a computer which is ultra mechanical intelligence, which will think more rapidly than the human being – please, follow all this – they are doing it now. India may be 50 years behind or 10 years behind, but they are building computers where they take over most of man's activities. Of course they cannot – probably they will – write a sonnet, an ode or a song, probably they will. So the computer is like our brain but not so dull. It is tremendously active, carrying on a small chip thousands of memories. And when the machine can do all the things that human beings do, what's going to happen to the human brain, your brain? You understand my question? For God's sake, react. On the television in America, we saw a Japanese car being built. There was a computer and a robot. The computer was telling the robot how to build a car, and the robot was building a car, and the workmen were in white aprons and white gloves. And suddenly the whole machinery stopped, and then the computer says to the robot, not verbally, that you didn't turn the screw tightly. So the robot immediately tightens the screw and the whole machine goes on. And this is what is happening in the computer world. That computer can outthink, it can invent gods, as you have invented gods, it can play chess, it can do the most extraordinary things. And what is going to happen to the human brain? You haven't thought about it. It is not worth going into because you are not interested in it. | 我们的大脑已经变得像是一台电脑了。 那些制造电脑的科学家和专家， 他们说， 人们投入了数百万甚至数十亿美元 ——在日本和美国—— 去制造电脑， 它是超强的机械智能， 它将会比人类思考得更快 ——请跟上所有这些—— 他们现在就在做这事儿。 印度也许要落后五十年或者十年， 但人们正在制造各种电脑， 电脑可以接手大部分人类的活动。 当然了，它们是无法…… ——但它们未来或许可以—— 它们无法写一首十四行诗， 写一首赋，或者写一首歌， 但它们未来或许也能做这些事。 所以电脑就像我们的大脑一样， 但它并没有那么迟钝。 它是极度活跃的， 一块小小的芯片就能携带成千上万的记忆。 而当机器能够做所有人类在做的事情以后， 那么人类的大脑，你的大脑 将会发生什么呢？ 你们理解我的问题吗？ 看在上帝的份上，给点反应吧。 在美国的一个电视节目中， 我们看到了一辆日本汽车的制造过程。 那里摆放着一台电脑和一个机器人。 电脑告诉机器人如何制造汽车， 然后机器人就开始制造汽车了， 而一旁的工人们都穿着白色围裙， 戴着白色手套。 突然，整个机器停止运转了， 这时那台电脑便告诉机器人 ——不是口头上告诉它—— 你没有把螺丝拧紧。 于是机器人便立即拧紧了螺丝， 然后整个机器便继续运转起来了。 这就是电脑世界正在发生的事情。 那台电脑可以在思想上超越人类， 它可以发明出神明， 就像你们已经发明出了神明一样， 它能够下棋，它可以做最非凡惊人的事情。 那么，人类的大脑将会发生什么呢？ 你们并没有想过这个问题。 这个问题并不值得深入探讨， 因为你们都对它不感兴趣。 |
| The human brain requires activity, challenge. Either that brain is going to be entertained, the entertainment industry is going to take over that brain, as you are being taken over now, sports, cinema, magazines, temples, they are all entertainments, and football, you know, cricket and all the rest of it. Then what is going to happen? Your brain is taken over by entertainment industry. And it is being done now, of which you may not be conscious of it. And gradually your brain becomes quite dull, if not already. And either you are going to be entertained, or you turn totally in a different direction, inwardly. If you turn inwardly there is immense, infinite, everlasting security. | 人类的大脑需要活动和挑战。 那个大脑，它要么去娱乐， 娱乐产业将会接管人类的大脑， 就像你们现在正在被接管一样： 体育运动比赛，电影院，各种杂志，那些神庙 ——它们全都是「娱乐」， 还有足球比赛，你们都知道的， 板球比赛，等等这些东西。 那时将会发生什么呢？ 你们的大脑被娱乐产业所接管了。 它现在正在被接管 ——虽然你们或许没有意识到这件事。 于是你的大脑会逐渐变得非常迟钝 ——如果它还没有变得迟钝的话。 而你要么会去寻求娱乐， 要么你会完全地转向一个不同的方向 ——也就是转向内在世界。 而如果你转向了内在世界， （你会发现）那里有着巨大的、无限的、 永久的安全。 |
| So, we are talking about peace. One can have complete peace within oneself, not a peace of mind, which is silly, a peace which is living, quality, depth, not just superficial quoting of peace. And that can only happen when there is no conflict whatsoever. | 好了，我们正在谈论的是「和平宁静」。 我们是可以拥有内在完全的和平宁静的， 它不是头脑的平静——这种平静是愚蠢的， 「和平宁静」则是有生命力的、 高品质的、有深度的， 而不只是肤浅表面地喊喊和平的口号。 但这只有当没有了任何冲突以后才会发生。 |
| And also we ought to talk over together what is religion. And to find that out, go into it very, very deeply, we must talk over together, you and the speaker talk over, have a conversation, | 此外，我们也应该一起来讨论一下 什么是「宗教」？ 而要搞清楚这个问题， 非常非常深入地探究它， 我们就必须一起来讨论一下 ——你和演讲者一起来讨论， 进行一场对话， |
| what is meditation. The word 'meditation' means to ponder over, think over. And also that word 'meditation' means measure. To think over, to ponder over, and also the capacity to measure. Religion has to be understood, not intellectually, not romantically and all that rubbish that is going on in the world, but to find out, to discover, to see the full meaning of that word, can only take place when there is no fear, when there is no conflict. And to find out – not to find out – if there is anything sacred, to find that truth, not through search, not through various experience, various gurus, going from one racket to another, but to see the truth of it there must be meditation. What is meditation? Meditation generally is understood, whether it is Zen or every other form of meditation – Hindu, Tibetan, Buddhist – they all now have become systems, practices. Any system, any system whether it is bureaucratic or religious or a system of thought, philosophy, any system has inherently in it decay, degeneration. You see that happening. So, one must be free from all systems to meditate. Right? Will you be free of systems to meditate, or you have your own particular pet method to bring about tranquillity of the brain? Which is, you may have found through meditation a sedation. You understand? Putting yourself to sleep, to hypnotise yourself through repetition. Right? So we are going to find out together what is meditation. The speaker is not telling you how to meditate. The word 'how' doesn't exist in spiritual matters. The word 'how' implies the method. You have had a thousand methods and that has left you where you are. | 来讨论一下：什么是「冥想」？ 「冥想」这个词的意思是：去沉思， 去仔细思考。 「冥想」这个词同样也意味着“度量”。 去仔细思考，去沉思， 同样也有能力去度量。 我们需要去理解「宗教」， 不是从思想智力上去了解，不是浪漫化地理解它， 不是所有那些正在这个世界上 发生着的糟糕的事情， 而是要去搞清楚它、去发现它， 去看到（宗教）这个词的全部含义 ——而这只有当没有了恐惧、 没有了冲突以后才能实现。 而要去发现它——不是去发现它—— 是否存在任何「神圣之物」， 去发现它的真相——但不是通过寻找， 不是通过各种经验、各种古鲁， 从一个骗局换到另一个骗局， 而是，要看清它的真相， 我们就必须要有「冥想」。 什么是「冥想」？ 人们通常所理解的那种“冥想” ——不管它是「禅宗」也好， 还是任何其他形式的冥想： 印度教冥想、西藏人的冥想、佛教的冥想—— 如今它们全都变成了某种体系、某种练习。 然而 任何体系， 任何体系——不管它是官僚体系 还是宗教体系， 或者是某种思想体系、哲学体系， 任何体系，其内在固有的特性就是 走向衰退和堕落。 你可以看到这种事情正在发生。 所以，我们必须要摆脱掉所有的体系 才能去冥想。 对吧？ 你们能够摆脱掉所有体系去冥想吗？ 还是说，你有着自己特殊的“宝贝方法”， 它能带来大脑的平静？ 也就是说，你也许通过冥想 而找到了某种“镇静”的感觉。 你们理解了吗？ 让自己沉睡过去， 通过不断重复来催眠你自己。 是吧？ 所以我们将要一起去发现 什么是「冥想」。 演讲者并没有在告诉你 如何去冥想。 在灵性领域， 并不存在“如何……”这个词。 “如何”这个词就暗示了「方法」。 你们曾经有过一千种方法， 然而在使用了这些方法后， 你们如今仍旧是在原地踏步。 |
| So, what is meditation? Ask it, find out, we will help each other. Which is, first there must be no authority, no instructor, no one to guide you, therefore you cannot possibly rely on anyone. All your life and past generations have relied on leaders, on politicians, on gurus, on priests, and where has it left man at the end of it? He is still in confusion, still in conflict. So, to find out the true significance of meditation is total abandonment of all authority, including the authority of knowledge. You understand this? So that your brain is completely unconditioned, totally free from all tradition, from all sense of becoming. Which is, our brain is conditioned through becoming: you are becoming from a clerk to a manager, from an apprentice to a master carpenter, from a university student in engineering you are becoming head of an engineering department. Physically you have tried to become there, and the same movement is extended psychologically. There we are trying to become something. I am not good but I will be good. I will become enlightened. Enlightenment is not of time. Enlightenment isn't at the end of your life or through various practices. Enlightenment is to have a clear brain, uncluttered, uncluttered by knowledge, by thought, so that the brain is free. And that is meditation, so that there is no measurement. | 所以，什么是冥想？ 去询问它，去搞清楚它， 我们将会互相帮助。 也就是说：首先，我们必须没有权威， 没有导师， 没有指引你的人， 所以你无法去依赖任何人。 你们的一生和过去世世代代的人 都曾经依赖于各种领袖、 依赖于政治家、古鲁、神职人员， 而到了最后，人类又变成了什么样子呢？ 人类仍旧处于混乱困惑中， 仍旧处于冲突之中。 所以，去发现冥想的真正意义， 就是要完全地抛弃掉所有的权威 ——包括知识的权威。 你们理解这点了吗？ 由此你的大脑才能完全地摆脱掉局限， 彻底地摆脱掉所有传统， 摆脱掉所有“成为什么”的感觉。 也就是说，我们的大脑被“变成什么”所制约了： 你会从一名职员变成一名经理， 从一名学徒变成木匠大师， 从一名工程专业的大学生 变成工程部门的老大。 从外在物理上来说，你努力去变成那样的人， 然后同样的这种运动 延伸扩展到了心理领域。 我们试图在心理领域也变成某种人。 我不是好人，但我将会变成好人。 我将会“开悟”。 「开悟」这件事和时间无关。 「开悟」并不是你到了生命的最后岁月 才达到的东西， 或者通过各种练习来达到它。 「开悟」就是要拥有一个清晰明了的大脑， 整齐而不凌乱， 没有塞满各种知识和思想， 这样的话，大脑就是自由的。 而这就是「冥想」，由此就不会有「量度」。 |
| I do not know if you have gone into the question of measurement. The whole of the West, the whole technological world of the West, which you are copying here, is based on measurement. If there was no measurement there would be no technology. And the Greeks, the ancient Greeks, were concerned with measurement, and they exploded: their philosophy and their discoveries, mathematics and so on, exploded over the West. India said, the ancient people – if I have been told correctly, because the speaker doesn't read all these books, thank God. So he is not burdened with knowledge, with tradition. He can look at things as they are – India said that measurement is illusion. You cannot measure – the speaker is saying this – you cannot measure the universe, you cannot measure with words or thought the immeasurable, or that which is beyond all time. To understand the enormity of it, the grandeur, the beauty, the strength and the immense vitality of a brain that is utterly free, it has got tremendous energy, as in the technological world those who are inventing, searching, asking, exploring, they have immense energy there. But when the brain is free of the self, the 'me', which is essentially the wastage of energy, self-centred activity, when there is freedom from that, the brain has got immense, incalculable energy, and there must be that energy. Not put together by thought, not through various forms of awakening what you call centres in your brain, and Kundalini and all that kind of stuff. The speaker knows something about all that. He disregards it totally. Whereas if there is freedom from conflict, and inwardly there is great silence, and meditation is that. Not contrived, manipulated, but silence which is not put together by thought. | 我不知道你们是否曾经探究过 关于「量度」的问题。 整个西方世界， 整个西方的科技世界 ——你们正在这里效仿西方世界—— 它就是基于「量度」的。 如果没有「量度」，就不会有科学技术了。 而希腊人——古希腊人， 他们很关心「量度」， 而随之爆发的就是 他们的哲学和他们的各种发现， 数学，等等，这些东西在西方世界迅速传播开来。 而印度却说……古代印度人说 ——如果他们告诉我的东西是正确的话， 因为演讲者并没有 读过所有这类书籍，谢天谢地。 所以他没有知识和传统的沉重负担。 他可以如实地去观察事物： 印度人却说：「量度」是幻觉。 你是无法去度量的 ——这句话是演讲者要说的—— 你是无法去度量这个宇宙的， 你是无法用词语文字或思想 来度量那个「不可度量」的事物 或者那个「超越所有时间」的事物的。 去理解它的浩大， 它的庄严宏伟和它的美， 当大脑完全的自由， 它就会有具有力量和巨大的活力， 它会拥有惊人的能量， 就像那些科技领域中的人一样， 他们会去发明创造， 他们会去寻找、询问和探索， 他们在这方面有着巨大的能量。 然而当大脑摆脱掉了自我，摆脱了“我” ——“我”从本质上来说 是一种能量的损耗， 那种自我中心的活动， 当大脑摆脱掉了它们， 大脑就会拥有巨大的、不可估量的能量， 而你需要…… 你必须要有这种能量。 这种能量不是由思想所拼凑组合起来的， 不是通过各种形式的唤醒方法 ——去唤醒你们所谓的大脑中的各个“中心”， 昆达里尼能量，所有这类玩意儿。 演讲者对于这类事情有一些了解。 但他完全无视了它。 然而，如果我们能摆脱掉冲突， 我们内在就会有一种深度的「寂静」 ——而这就是「冥想」。 这种「寂静」并不是人为的、操控而来的， 这种「寂静」， 它并不是由思想拼凑出来的。 |
| Silence implies space. The brain must have space, but it has no space when thought is operating, because thought is limited, as all knowledge is limited. So there must be absolute silence and space, which can only take place when there is no measurement, no becoming. And when there is that silence, not the silence between two noises, not the silence or peace between two wars, two conflicts, silence is something totally unrelated to noise, and when there is that silence then there is that which is sacred, which is not measurable by word. This is meditation and this is religion, which has total relationship with our daily life. | 「寂静」就暗示着「空间」。 大脑必须要有「空间」才行， 然而当思想运作的时候，大脑就没有空间了， 因为思想是有限的 ——就像所有的知识是有限的一样。 所以我们必须要有 完全的「寂静」和「空间」， 而这只有当没有了「量度」、 没有了“变成什么……”以后 才会发生。 当有了这种「寂静」 ——这种寂静并不是两个噪音之间的安静， 也不是两场战争、两次冲突之间的 那种静默或和平， 「寂静」是某种和噪音完全无关的事物， 当有了这种「寂静」， 就会有那个「神圣之物」， 那个无法用言语文字度量的事物了。 而这才是「冥想」，这才是「宗教」 ——它们是和我们的日常生活密切相关的。 |
