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NY71T1 - 觉知我们的过去
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| Krishnamurti: Aren't the lights a bit too bright? I can't see you. | 克里希那穆提（以下简称克）：灯光是不是太亮了点？ 我都快看不到你们了。 |
| I don't know quite where to begin, because we have so many problems, and the problems seem to be increasing and we human beings seem to be unable to find any kind of solution. We have tried so many methods, systems, philosophies, we have tried to follow spiritual leaders, political leaders, and we are always trying to find a formula, a way out of this utter chaos and misery. | 我其实也不知道要从哪里讲起， 因为我们有着如此多的问题， 而问题似乎仍在不断增长中， 而我们人类看起来好像也无法找到 任何的解决方案。 我们已经尝试过了很多的办法、体系和哲学， 我们也尝试过去跟从那些灵性领袖， 政治领袖， 我们总是试图去寻找一个公式， 寻找一条摆脱这种彻底混乱和痛苦的途径。 |
| First of all, I'd like to point out if I may, that we are not offering any kind of philosophy, except philosophy means the love of truth, and truth is something that cannot be described, and what is described is not the thing that is. And this love of truth is not something far away to be grasped after periods of training, following some particular system or accepting any faith, belief, but rather to have the capacity to observe very clearly, without any distortion. Only then it is possible to see what actually is, and 'what is' is the truth, and to go beyond it. | 首先，如果可以的话，我想要指出的是 我并不是在提供给你们某种哲学 ——除非这种哲学意味着对真理的爱， 而真理是一种无法被描述的东西， 描述的内容并不是那个事物本身。 而这种对真理的爱并不是某种很遥远的东西， 要领悟这种爱，并不需要经过长时间的训练， 也不需要去跟从某个特定的体系 或者接受任何信念或信仰， 要领悟这种爱，你需要有看清事物的能力， 没有任何扭曲地去看清事物。 只有那时，你才可能看到那个事实真相， ——‘事实真相（what is）’就是真理—— 然后你便可以去超越它。 |
| And so, during these four talks, if one may, we are going to go into this question of observing, learning, and seeing actually what is, and see if our minds and our hearts can go beyond all the confusion and the misery and the travail which we have created for ourselves. | 所以，在这四次演讲中 ——如果我可以这么说的话—— 我们将会去探究这个 关于观察和学习的问题， 然后去切实地看到那个事实真相， 然后看看我们的头脑和心灵 是否能够超越所有的混乱困惑 以及那些悲惨与痛苦 ——这些东西（混乱困惑、悲惨、痛苦） 都是我们自己一手创造出来的。 |
| Most of you, if I may say, come with certain anticipation, desiring to be stimulated or seeking inspiration, or wanting to follow a new method or system, or because the speaker comes from that far country, India, you have some romantic ideas and hope to find some sentimental solution to all our problems. And the speaker is not an Indian, except in carrying a passport. He has no philosophy, he's not doing any propaganda or making you accept or deny, agreeing or disagreeing. We are going together to examine what is actually going on both outwardly and inwardly. So we are going to share together. Sharing together is communication, and we make a lot of ado about communication. To share together any problem implies that we must be free to examine, free of any prejudice, free of our conditioning as an American, as a Catholic, as a Protestant, as a Hindu, as a politician or a businessman, as a scientist, what you will, free to observe together, share together, partake in the meaning and the significance of the thing together. That's what communication means, sharing. And so, when we are going to examine together, both your mind and the speaker's must be free to look, not to accept or deny but to observe very closely if one can, the whole issue, to observe without any distortion. | 你们大多数人——如果我可以这么说的话—— 都是带着某种期望而来到这里的， 你们渴望得到一些刺激， 或者是为了寻求某种启示， 或者想要去追随某种新的方法或体系， 又或者因为演讲者是来自于某个遥远的国度——印度， 所以你们会抱有一些浪漫的想法， 希望能够以某种感情化的方式 来解决我们所有的问题。 然而，演讲者并不是一个印度人 ——除了他有一本印度护照以外。 他并没有任何哲学思想， 他不是在进行什么传道活动， 他也不是为了让你去接受或否定， 同意或者反对。 我们是要一起去检视 内在和外在真正发生着的一切。 所以我们将会一起来分享它。 一起分享就是交流， 而我们却在交流这件事上费尽了力气。 一起分享某个问题 意味着我们必须要能够自由地去检视， 摆脱掉任何偏见，摆脱掉自身身份的局限 ——你是美国人，你是天主教徒， 你是新教徒，你是印度教徒， 你是政客，你是商人，你是科学家等等， 让我们一起自由地去观察，一起去分享， 共同来分享 事物的价值与意义。 这才是交流的含义——那就是分享。 因此，当我们一起去检视的时候， 你的头脑和演讲者的头脑都必须能够自由地去看， 不是去接受或者否定，而是非常仔细地去观察 这整件事情——如果你可以这样去做的话， 没有任何扭曲地去观察。 |
| And our minds are distorted, because we live our daily life in fragmentation, we are Catholics or businessmen or scientists or anthropologists, politicians, you know, divide, divide, divide, both outwardly and inwardly we are fragmented human beings. And we look at this whole problem of existence through one fragment, either intellectual or emotional or totally disregard and accept things as they are and carry on. And we hope somehow through time, through outward events, through political action, through organisation, that things will become normal, sane and healthy. But I am afraid they never will, neither through perfect organisation, however beautifully run bureaucratically, or any solutions that the scientists offer will not obviously solve our human problems. | 我们的头脑已经被扭曲了， 因为我们每天都过着支离破碎的生活， 我们是天主教徒、商人 科学家、人类学家、政治家， 你知道的，分裂、分裂、分裂， 不管是外在还是内在， 我们都是支离破碎的人类。 然后我们通过某个碎片 来观察这整个关于存在的问题， 要么是通过智力的碎片，要么是通过情感的碎片， 要么就是完全置之不理， 接受事物原来的模样，然后按照老样子继续下去。 我们多多少少都希望通过时间， 通过外在的事件， 通过政治行动，通过组织机构， 来让各种事情变得正常、理智和健康。 但我恐怕这永远无法实现， 不管是通过完美的组织机构， 不管是多么官僚化的精心运作， 还是科学家们所提供的任何解决方案， 很显然都无法解决我们人类的问题。 |
| Whether you live in this country, Europe or India, or in Asia, as human beings our problems are common. Because they're common we can communicate. What is common can be communicated, shared together. Therefore one has to totally disregard all the images that one has built around the speaker, or your own particular image about yourself, so that we can both together observe, really understand, put our hearts into the solution of these many problems. | 无论你是生活在这个国家， 生活在欧洲、印度，还是生活在亚洲， 作为人类，我们有着共同的问题。 因为它们是共同的问题， 所以我们便能够交流。 共同的东西就可以拿来交流，拿来一起分享了。 因此你们必须要彻底消除掉所有那些 你们对于演讲者的印象， 也消除掉你们为自己所建立起来的特定的形象， 这样我们就可以一起去观察，真正地去了解， 全身心地投入，去解决那诸多的问题。 |
| And so, from the beginning we should be very clear that we are not offering any kind of solution or telling you what you should do, because that emphasises authority. And where there is authority there must be fear, competitiveness, imitation and conformity, and all that denies examination. And we have to examine very closely and hesitantly the extraordinary problems that we have as human beings, not as scientists, not as a politician or a businessman or a labourer but as human beings. | 所以，从一开始的时候， 我们就应该非常清楚， 那就是我并没有在提供任何的解决方案， 或者告诉你应该怎么做， 因为那样做就强调了权威。 而一旦有了权威，就必然会有恐惧、 竞争、模仿和遵从， 而这一切都否定了检视。 而我们必须非常仔细和踌躇地去检视 我们作为人类所拥有的那些奇特的问题， 不是作为科学家，不是作为政客， 不是作为商人或者劳工， 而是作为人类，我们身上存在的问题。 |
| Because we must bring about in ourselves, it seems to me, a total revolution in the very psyche, in the very structure of our being. And everybody is talking nowadays about outward revolution, physical revolution, gather all your energy to bring about a social revolution, always thinking in terms of outward changes, changes in the environment. | 因为在我看来，我们必须要带来一场我们内在的， 心灵上的， 我们存在结构本身上的彻底革命。 如今，每一个人都在谈论着外在的革命， 那种物质上的革命， 集中起你全部的能量，去带来一场社会的变革， 人们总是从改变外在事物， 改变环境的角度出发去思考问题。 |
| Madame, you'll have your turn when you come to ask questions at the end of the talk, so have some patience. | 这位女士，会轮到你的， 你可以在演讲的最后问问题， 所以请耐心一些。 |
| Questioner: Please get up from the steps now. | 某人：请马上从楼梯上站起来。 |
| K: May I go on? | 克：我可以继续吗？ |
| Audience: Yes. | 听众：可以。 |
| Q: Please, you can't go on until they get up. | 某人：对不起，除非这些人站起来， 否则你不能继续。 |
| K: What was that? | 克：怎么回事？ |
| Q: It's the usher, he won't let people sit on the floor. | 某人：是引座员，他不让人们坐在地上。 |
| K: You know, this is not an entertainment, spiritual or intellectual. This is a very serious thing that we're talking about. And if you are not serious, I don't see why you should be sitting there and I here. I don't mean serious long-face or all the peculiarities that are given to that word. Serious means what it means: to be earnest, to give one's attention, one's heart, one's capacity to find out for ourselves if there is a solution, a way out of all this madness, this violence, this brutality. | 克：你们知道， 这并不是一场娱乐， 它不是智力娱乐，也不是灵性娱乐。 我们在谈论的是非常严肃的事情。 如果你们不严肃的话， 我不明白为什么你们要坐在那里，而我要坐在这里。 我指的并不是那种拉长脸的严肃， 或者所有这个词被赋予的独特含义。 这里的“严肃”就是指它的本义： 即变得认真， 去全神贯注地，全身心地， 竭尽所能地亲自去发现是否有一种解决方案， 一条途径，可以让我们摆脱所有那些疯狂、暴力与残忍。 |
| Madame, écoutez. | 这位女士，请听好。 |
| So as we were saying, we have human problems, and we are always talking about bringing an outward revolution to change the social structure either through violence or through peaceful means. The problem is much deeper than mere social, environmental change, either in ecology, economy, or in the social morality, because the social morality is immoral. So, we are concerned with our human problems, because what we are actually our society is. The society, the world is us, depending on our relationship, on our behaviour, on our fears and pleasures, on our despairs, and the desire for psychological security and dependence. So this world is us and we are the world. And to bring about a radical revolution in this world we have to change, not merely the environment. | 所以，就如我们刚才说的， 我们有着诸多人类的问题， 而我们总是在谈论着要进行一场外在的革命 来改变社会的结构 ——要么是通过暴力的方式，要么是通过和平的手段。 而我们的问题要比这深刻得多， 它不仅仅在于社会的改变和环境的改变 ——不管这种改变是社会生态学上的， 经济上的，还是社会道德上的， 因为社会道德就是一种不道德。 因此，我们关心的是我们人类的问题， 因为我们实际上是什么样的， 这个社会就是什么样的。 这个社会，这个世界，就是我们自己， 它取决于我们的关系，我们的行为， 我们的恐惧、快感和绝望， 取决于我们对心理上安全感和依赖的渴望。 所以，这个世界就是我们自己， 而我们就是这个世界。 要给这个世界带来一场根本性的革命， 我们需要改变的 不仅仅是环境。 |
| And more and more books and philosophies and politicians, and I'm afraid also the scientists, are concerned with the changing of the world outside. And apparently very few are concerned with the radical inward revolution. Because if we don't change, if we are corrupt, what's the good of having a perfect social structure, we'll corrupt it. I think that's fairly obvious and logical. | 然而越来越多的书籍、哲学和政客 ——恐怕也包括那些科学家们， 他们关心的都是如何去改变外在的世界。 很显然，极少有人关心 那种内在的根本性的革命。 因为如果我们不改变，如果我们已经腐败， 那么拥有一个完美的社会结构又有什么用？ 我们还是会腐化它。 我认为这是显而易见的，也是合乎逻辑的。 |
| And we are apt to forget this because we think, change the environment as the communists, others do, change the structure, political, economic, social, and the human being then will adjust himself to the structure, he'll become righteous, he'll become non-violent, he will live peacefully, all these experiments have been tried before, either forcefully or peacefully. But man apparently has remained what he is for millennia, greedy, envious, aggressive, brutal, self-centred, shedding every kind of misery in the world. | 而我们却很容易忘记这一点， 因为我们觉得当我们改变了环境 ——就像那些共产主义者和其他人所做的一样—— 改变了 政治、经济与社会的结构， 那么人类便会让自己调整适应到那种结构中去。 他将会变得正直， 他会变得非暴力， 他将会去和平地生活， 所有这些试验之前都已经做过了 ——要么是通过强制的方式，要么是通过和平的方式。 然而很显然，几千年下来，人类仍旧是老样子： 贪婪、嫉妒、好斗、残忍、自我中心， 不断为这个世界增添各种各样的痛苦。 |
| So, the world, both the outer world and the inner world is what we are, we have made that. There is no division between you and the world, and the world and the me. I think that's a basic thing that one must understand radically, that there are not individuals and the community, a society, a world apart from us, we are the world. If you examine yourself you will see what you are is the result of your culture, of your environment which you have created, or your grandfathers, grandmothers have created it. You are the result of the past. And without changing the whole past, the whole structure of our past, we want to change the outward things, better bathrooms, go to the moon to play golf, or plant some ugly flag in the moon, and you think you are technologically tremendously advanced. Probably you are, but its not going to solve our misery, our conflicts, our extraordinary dullness of our minds, and the utter lack of love and compassion. If we could see the reality, not as a theory, not as a speculative thing to which we adjust, but the actual fact that we are the world, we are the result of the culture in which we live and that culture which we have created. | 所以这个世界 ——既包括外在的世界，也包括内心的世界—— 就是我们自己， 是我们创造出了它。 你和这世界之间， 这个世界和我之间，并没有分隔。 我认为这是一个我们必须要彻底了解的基本事实， 那就是并不存在什么个体与群体， 并不存在一个与我们相分离的社会或者世界， 我们就是世界。 如果你检视一下自己的话， 你就会发现 现在的你是你们自己文化 与环境的产物 ——而这种文化与环境是你们自己创造出来的， 或者是你们的祖父、祖母所创造出来的。 你就是过去的结果。 而我们并没有去改变整个过去， 改变我们过去的整个结构， 我们只想要改变外在的事物， 更好的浴室，登上月球去打高尔夫， 或者在月球上插一面丑陋的旗帜， 你们觉得自己的科学技术 是无比先进的。 也许它的确很先进， 然而它却无法解决我们的痛苦，我们的冲突， 我们心灵的极度迟钝， 以及爱与同情的彻底缺乏。 我们要看到“我们就是世界”这个事实， 不是把它作为一种理论， 不是把它作为一种让自己去调整适应的思辨的东西， 而是作为一种实际的事实。 我们就是我们所生活于其中的 那种我们自己所创造出来的文化的结果。 |
| We are the past. And to live differently, and we must live differently, with a totally different kind of mind and heart, we have to understand ourselves, not according to any philosopher or any psychologist, as actually what we are. And so one has to observe. So, if we could, not theoretically, not intellectually accept the fact that you are the world and the world is you, what you are actually. In your relationship with another you create the culture, you are utterly totally responsible for the wars, for the misery, for the social injustice, for everything that's going on about us, the chaos, the suffering. And apparently we don't want to face that, and that's going to be our difficulty. We have so cleverly and cunningly escaped from ourselves through religion, through philosophy, through entertainment, whether that entertainment be religious or football or whatever it is, we have a network of escapes, and we slip through them so quickly. And because we escape we have many frustrations. And in that frustration, which we almost worship, we produce every kind of literature, drama, art, and all that in no way solves our human, daily existence. And that's what we are concerned with, at least that's what the speaker is concerned with, not only to observe what is happening in ourselves but also bring about in ourselves, both in our minds, in the structure of our brain cells, and also in our heart, a radical, psychological revolution, for that is the only revolution, there is no other revolution. Mere physical revolution is so very primitive, it hurts, destroys people, in the name of bringing about a good society. You kill people in order to bring about a good society, the contradiction, the stupidity of it. And we accept it, either quietly or violently we accept this philosophy, that outwardly we must change first, and then we human beings like so many monkeys will conform to the pattern established by the intellectuals or the economists. |
我们就是过去。
而如果你想过一种不同的生活 ——我们必须要以
一种完全不同的头脑和心灵去过不同的生活——
那么我们就必须了解我们自己，
不是依靠任何哲学家或者心理学家来了解自己，
而是了解自己的真实模样。
所以我们必须要去观察。
因此，如果可以的话，请你们不要从理论上
或者智力上去接受
“你就是世界，这个世界就是你”这个事实，
是你通过自己实际的模样，
以及你与他人的关系，而创造出了那种文化，
所以你需要完全彻底地负责：
为战争负责，为痛苦负责，为社会的不公正负责，
为我们身边发生着的每一件事负责，
那些混乱，那些苦难。
但我们很显然并不想去面对它，
而这就是我们的困难之处。
我们是如此聪明狡猾地逃避了自己，
通过宗教，通过哲学，
通过娱乐——不管是宗教上的娱乐，
足球的娱乐，还是其他什么娱乐，
我们有着一个逃避的网络， 而我们是如此迅速地溜入到了它之中。
因为我们在逃避， 所以我们便会有很多的挫折沮丧。
而我们几乎快要去崇拜这种挫折沮丧了， 在这种挫折沮丧中，
我们创造出了各种文学作品、戏剧和艺术，
然而所有这些东西却根本无法解决我们人类的问题， 解决我们日常生活中的问题。
然而这才是我们所关心的东西，
至少这是演讲者所关心的东西，
我们不仅要去观察我们内心发生的事情，
也要给我们的内心
——包括我们的头脑，我们大脑细胞的结构，
以及我们的心灵——
带来一场彻底的、心理上的革命，
因为这才是唯一的革命， 除此之外并没有其他的革命。
如果仅仅只是物质上的革命， 它是非常原始的，
他会伤害和摧毁人类，
你们打着创建美好社会的旗号。
你们屠杀人类，为的是带来一个美好的社会，
这是多么自相矛盾，多么愚蠢。
而我们却接受了它，
默默地，或者激进地接受了它。
我们接受了这种哲 学： 即我们必须首先改变外在的东西， 然后我们人类就会像无数猴子一样，去遵从 那些既定的模式 ——那些由聪明的人 或经济学家所建立起来的模式。 |
| So I think from the beginning, if I may repeat that over again, one has to realise non-verbally, non-theoretically, actually see it, as you know for yourself when you're hungry, that you are the world and the world is you. Really if you see that, that's the most marvellous thing that can happen to a human being, because then you become totally utterly responsible, not only in your relationship but also in your relationship with nature, the destruction of nature, the killing of animals. | 所以我认为，从一开始的时候， 如果我可以再次重复一遍的话， 那就是我们必须要认识到这一点 ——不是口头上认识， 不是理论上认识，而是真正地看到它， 就像你知道自己饿了一样—— 即“你就是这个世界，而世界就是你”。 要是你能真正地看到这一点， 这将会是一个人身上所能发生的最不可思议的事情， 因为那时你就会变得完全彻底地负责， 不仅是在你的人际关系中， 也包括在你和自然的关系中， 我们破坏自然，屠杀动物。 |
| The other day, one saw on the television baby seals being killed and hearing their cries. And you are the Christian world, loving, kind, talking about peace and killing those poor things, and putting on their fur, or whatever you do with them. And this is the twentieth century and you're supposed to be civilised, intellectual. I leave it with you, all that. | 前几天， 某人（指克自己）在电视上看到了海豹幼仔被屠杀的景象， 我听到了海豹幼仔的哭泣。 你们这里是基督教的世界， 宣扬爱和仁慈，高谈和平， 然而却在屠杀着这些可怜的家伙， 然后将它们的毛皮穿在自己身上， 或者以其他什么方式来处理它们。 如今已经是20世纪了， 而你们被认为是“文明的、有知识的”人。 我把这一切留给你们自己去思考。 |
| So when one realises actually what one is, and that realisation has to be observed, you cannot realise something which you have not carefully, closely examined. And to examine, as we were saying, there must be no distortion. And distortion will inevitably come into being when there is fragmentation, when one part of you, which is still a fragment, condones or condemns what you observe. When one part of you observes all the other fragments, and that part assumes the authority to correct the other fragments, that authority remains, or sustains the fragments. So there is contradiction between the one fragment that has assumed the authority of justification, condemnation, or explaining, rationalising. And as long as there is this fragmentation in us, and it does exist, not only at the conscious level but also deep down in the cave of our being, these fragments, fragmentation, which is not only the result of the culture in which we live, in the world of specialisations, but also in ourselves, deeply, we are fragmented human beings. And when one sees the reality that one is the world and the culture in which we live is the culture which we have created by our activity, by our action, by our thought, by our belief, by our nationalities and divisions of religion, when we see this then one has to learn how to observe. Because what we see is not static, it is not something that's fixed, a permanent, dead thing, it is a living thing. And we observe that living thing, which is you, with all the contradictions, confusion, guilt, misery, agony, suffering, it's all a living thing. And we observe that living thing with the eyes of the past. I don't know if you have not observed it yourself. Because we live in the past, we may talk about the eternal present or the now, because that's merely a speculative idea put forward by some clever intellectual person, but actually we live in the past, we are the past. That again is a fact. You are Christians, Hindus, you are the result of thousands of years of propaganda. | 所以，当我们切实地意识到自己的真实现状， 我们就必须要去观察这份醒悟， 如果你没有小心地、 仔细地去检视过某个东西， 那么你是无法意识到它的。 而要去检视——就如我们之前所说的—— 就必须没有扭曲。 然而扭曲将会不可避免地出现， 因为你身上存在分裂， 你身上的某个部分 ——这个部分仍旧是一个碎片—— 它在宽恕或者谴责你所观察的对象。 当你身上的某个部分去观察所有其他的碎片时， 那个部分就会假装成权威，去改正其他的碎片， 那个权威会保留或维持那些碎片。 所以就产生了矛盾 ——那个假装权威的碎片与其他碎片之间的矛盾， 那个假装权威的碎片在辩护、谴责、 解释与合理化。 而只要我们内心还是存在这种碎片 ——它的确存在着，不仅存在于意识层面， 也存在于我们的内心的最深处， 这些碎片，这种支离破碎， 并不只是我们所生活于其中的文化的结果 ——这是一个专业化分工的世界， 它也存在于我们内心深处， 我们都是支离破碎的人类。 当我们看到这个真相：即我就是这个世界， 我们所生活于其中的文化， 它就是我们自己所创造出来的文化， 它是我们经由自己的活动、行为、思想、信仰、 国籍和宗教划分所创造出来的， 当我们看到这一点， 那么我们就需要去学习如何观察了。 因为我们所看到的东西并不是静态的， 它并不是某种固定的、 不变的、死亡的事物，它是一个鲜活的东西。 而我们在观察这个鲜活之物 ——这个鲜活之物就是你自己—— 观察你所有的矛盾、困惑、 内疚、悲惨、苦恼、痛苦， 这些全都是活生生的东西。 而我们是用过去的眼睛在观察着这个鲜活的事物。 我不知道你们有没有亲自观察过它。 因为我们是生活在过去之中的， 我们也许会谈论永恒的当下，或者此时此刻， 但那仅仅是一种猜测性的想法， 是那些聪明机智的家伙所提出来的， 然而事实上，我们都是活在过去中的， 我们就是过去。 这同样也是一个事实。 你们是基督教徒、印度教徒， 你们是数千年以来传道的结果。 |
| Thank you, sir. That's a good idea. | 谢谢你，先生。 这主意不错。 |
| As we were saying, we are the result of the propaganda, we are the result of what we have been told from childhood, to believe and not to believe. So we have to understand the past. The past, the present and the future is another fragmentation. And we project as the scientists are doing what the society is going to be in 2,000 years. Not 2,000 years, in 40 years, 50 years or 90 years, what it will be in the future. They have designed perfectly what the future is going to be, technologically. And you jolly well know the future is what you are now. And what you are now is the result of what you have been. And without understanding what you have been and bringing about a radical change in what you have been and what you are, time is not going to solve a thing. | 我们刚才说了， 我们就是那些宣传活动的产物， 我们就是从小以来被教导的那些东西的产物 ——要相信什么，不相信什么。 所以我们必须要了解过去。 过去、现在和未来，它们也是一种碎片。 而我们在预测 ——就像那些科学家们所做的那样—— 过2000年以后社会将会变成什么样子。 不是2000年以后， 是40年以后，50年以后，或者90年以后， 未来将会怎样。 他们已经完美地设计出了未来的样子 ——当然只是科学技术方面的。 而你们都很清楚，未来就是你们现在的模样。 而你们现在的模样正是你们过去模样的结果。 而如果不了解你们过去的情况 并且带来一次根本性的改变 ——改变你的过去，改变你的真实现状—— 时间将无法解决任何问题。 |
| And that is one of our great deceptions, that time, which is another fragmentation, will somehow through some miraculous action bring about a most extraordinary human being. | 然而这就是我们最大的欺骗之一： 即时间 ——时间是另一个碎片—— 将以某种方式，通过某些奇迹般的活动， 造就出最非凡的人类。 |
| Outwardly, you may have a longer life, you may have a better sewage system, a cleaner city, air not polluted. You can scientifically produce all these things, and time is necessary for that, but is time necessary at all to bring about this immense change, a total revolution in ourselves? And we have to go into this question, and we're going to, whether time, thought, fragmentation, is ever going to change the human mind, the mind that has been conditioned, the brain cells that hold the past, the memory, the experience, and the knowledge of a thousand years. One has to understand all this, and to understand it one must be really dedicated to it. | 外在而言， 你们也许会有更长的寿命， 你们也许会有更好的污水下水道系统， 更干净的城市，空气不受污染。 你们可以用科学技术制造出所有这些东西， 这的确需要时间， 然而要带来那种我们内心巨大的改变 和彻底的革命，是否也真的需要时间？ 而我们必须要去探究这个问题， 我们马上就会来探究它了： 即时间、思想和碎片， 它们是否能改变人类的头脑， 头脑已经受到了制约， 大脑细胞中蕴含着过去、记忆、经验， 以及上千年的知识。 我们必须要去了解这一切， 而要去了解它，我们就必须真正地投身于它。 |
| It isn't a thing you understand of an afternoon when you have nothing better to do and come and sit here and hope to gather in your fist the whole winds of life. One has to give one's life, one's heart, one's whole being to understand this. Because it's your life, and if we don't understand that, any amount of your searching for nirvana, for ecstasy, for a righteous behaviour has no value whatsoever. | 它并不是你一个下午就能了解的东西， 因为你没有什么更好的事情可做， 于是你过来了，坐在这里，希望用手去紧握住 所有的生命之风。 然而，你需要的是付出你的生命、 你的心灵、 你的整个存在去了解它。 因为这是你自己的生活， 而如果我们不了解它的话， 无论你花多少时间精力去寻找涅槃、狂喜 和正直的行为，它们都是没有任何价值的。 |
| So that is one of the first questions, which is, whether the mind which is the result of the past, which is the result of a thousand years of time, evolution, confronted with an immense crisis, not only the crisis in the outer world but also crisis in our life, in our relationships, in our way of living, whether that crisis can be answered truly. Not in fragmentation, little by little, but totally, completely, so that we can live without any kind of conflict, without any kind of battle in our life, from the moment we're born until we die, a constant struggle, pain, fear, anxiety and despair. | 所以这就是我们首先需要问的问题之一， 也就是，是否头脑 ——头脑就是过去的产物， 它是上千年时间和演变进化的产物—— 当头脑面对着某种巨大的危机时 ——不仅是外在世界的危机，也包括我们生活中的危机， 我们关系中的危机，我们生活方式中的危机—— 它（头脑）是否可以真正地去回应这种危机。 不是作为一个碎片，去一点一点地回应它， 而是完全地、彻底地去回应它， 这样我们的生活中便不会有任何冲突， 也不会有任何战争， 从我们出生那一刻起直到我们死去， 一直都有着持续不断的斗争、 痛苦、恐惧、焦虑和绝望。 |
| So we have to examine, if you will, our minds which is thought, the capacity of intelligence. The intellect, which everyone apparently worships with such ardour, the intellect is the instrument of examination. The intellect, which is the accumulation of knowledge, of experience, of a thousand years of searching a way out of this misery and confusion, that intellect we think will solve, or have the capacity to examine and go beyond. Which is, the intellect is knowledge, used rightly or wrongly. The intellect is the capacity to criticise, to observe, to examine, to rationalise, either sanely or unhealthily, logically or illogically, that intellect is the capacity to observe objectively. But that intellect is only a part of the whole, isn't it? We don't live by the intellect only, we live by our feelings, by our love or pleasures, pains. So when the intellect, as the epitome of thought, takes charge of our life, it brings about great contradiction in our life. | 所以如果你愿意的话，我们必须去检视 我们的头脑 ——也就是思想， 那种才智。 智力 很显然是每一个人带着极大的热情去崇拜的东西， 智力就是我们用以检视的工具。 智力 就是积累起来的知识和经验， 上千年的苦苦寻觅， 寻觅一条能够摆脱痛苦和困惑的途径， 我们认为这种智力可以去解决问题， 或者有能力去检视和超越。 也就是说，智力就是知识 ——不管它是被正确地使用还是错误地使用， 智力就代表着那种去批判、去观察、 去检视、去合理化的能力 ——不管它（批判、观察、检视、合理化）是理智的还是病态的， 逻辑的还是不合逻辑的， 那种智力就代表着那种客观观察的能力。 然而智力只是我们整体的一部分而已， 不是吗？ 我们不只是靠智性而活的， 我们的生活也要依赖于我们的感受， 依赖于我们的爱、快乐和痛苦。 所以，当智力成为了思想的象征， 并且掌管了我们的生活时， 它就会在我们的生活中制造出极大的矛盾。 |
| Our life is a total affair, that is, the psychosomatic responses, the responses of the heart, the mind, and the mind that is seeking something beyond itself, we are all that total human being, not just the intellect or the sentiment, or the denial of the intellect and only live in a kind of emotional sloppiness. | 我们的生活是一个综合性的整体， 它是一种身心的反应， 既包括心灵的反应， 也包括了头脑思想， 而头脑在寻找某种超越自身之外的事物， 我们就是所有这一切， 人是一个综合性的整体， 不是只有智力，也不是只有情感， 或者否定智力， 只生活在泛滥的感情中。 |
| So, one has to understand this contradiction in ourselves, which is the contradiction of time, yesterday, today and tomorrow, the past, the present and the future, time as a means of solving our thousand problems, and the knowledge which man has accumulated for a thousand years, upon which he depends, which is the past. Now, that is our past, knowledge is the past, there is no knowledge in the present. Are we communicating with each other? | 所以，我们必须要了解我们内心的这种矛盾， 它也就是时间的矛盾， 昨天、今天和明天， 过去、现在和未来， 我们利用时间来作为解决我们成千上万问题的手段， 而知识，那种人类已经积累了上千年 并且依赖于它的知识， 这种知识就是过去。 所以，它就是我们的过去， 知识就是过去， 并不存在什么当下的知识。 我们是在彼此交流着吗？ |
| A: Yes. | 听众：是的。 |
| K: I'm not going to ask this over and over again, whether we are communicating with each other, I just want to do it once and then forget it. If you don't communicate with the speaker, and the speaker is not communicating in the sense sharing together the problems that we are talking, its up to you. The speaker will convey it as clearly, as logically, as sanely as possible, and if you are wanting to share that, you share it. And if you don't share it, it's just as well you don't. Because this is not a propaganda, and that's the beauty of it. There is nothing for you to be convinced about or believe in, or take home a new set of ideas. Ideas are the children of barren women. Yes sir, you laugh, but you live with ideas. To you, ideas are the greatest important things in life, ideas being not only words put together but ideas which are thought put together as an idea, as a formula, as a concept. Which is, look what you are doing, you are living in the past, your whole mind, your knowledge, your brain cells, your image, everything is the past and you live in the future, an ideal, a concept, a belief in something. So see how time, which is the past, has divided the past, the present and the future. And you are going towards the future all the time, trying to forget the past. But your roots, your being, your whole process of thinking are rooted in the past. And without understanding those deep roots, which is yourself, you're trying to create a marvellous society in the future. | 克：我不会再一遍遍地问 “我们是否在彼此交流着？ ”这种问题了 我只想问一遍，然后就把它忘记。 要是你不和演讲者产生交流， 而演讲者也没有与你产生交流 ——这里交流的意思是 一起分享我们正在谈论的这些问题—— 这一切都取决于你。 演讲者将会尽可能清晰地、逻辑地、 理智地去传达他的意思， 如果你想要分享它，那就分享它。 而如果你不去分享它，这也没问题。 因为这并不是一次传道， 而这正是它的美丽所在。 这里并没有什么要让你去确信或者相信的东西， 或者让你把一套新的理念带回家。 理念就好像是不孕不育妇女的孩子。 是的，先生，你笑了， 但你们都是依靠理念而生活的。 对你们来说，理念是生活中最最重要的东西， 理念不仅仅是拼凑起来的文字， 理念是思想所拼凑起来的一个观念， 一个准则，一个概念。 也就是说，当你看一下自己所做的事情， （你会发现）你是生活在过去中的， 你的整个头脑，你的知识， 你的大脑细胞，你持有的形象， 一切都是过去的，而你也活在未来之中， 某个理想，某种概念，信仰某些东西。 所以，去看看时间——时间即过去——是如何 划分过去、现在与未来的。 而你们却一直在奔向未来， 试图忘掉过去。 然而你们的根源，你们的存在， 你们全部的思考过程都是根植于过去的。 而你们并没有去了解这些深层次的根源 ——即你们自己—— 而是试图在未来创造出一个无比美好的社会。 |
| You know, the other day they were talking about what will happen, the explosion of technology, how technology is going to create a new society. It is going to create a new society, obviously, but we human beings are what we have been for the last ten thousand years, and if we don't change we're going to be in more contradiction, deeper agonies, and our relationship with each other becomes appalling. | 前几天，有人在谈论未来将会发生的事情， 技术爆炸的时代， 科学技术将会如何创造出一个崭新的社会。 毫无疑问，它将会创造出一个新的社会， 但我们人类还是会和从前一样， 一万年以来，人类并没有什么变化， 而要是我们不改变的话， 我们就会处于更多的矛盾冲突中， 陷入于更深的痛苦之中， 而我们人类彼此之间的关系也会变得很可怕。 |
| So, we are together going to look at this question, whether the mind, which has been conditioned through time, conditioned through experience, conditioned by the knowledge it has acquired through that experience, conditioned by religion to believe and not to believe, Catholic, Protestant, and the innumerable divisions in the Protestantism, the Hindu, the Muslim, all that nonsense that goes on in the world, a circus. We are conditioned by the past, by propaganda, we are the result of all that, is one aware of it? | 所以，我们要一起来观察一下这个问题： 即头脑已经被时间， 被经验所制约， 它被自己从经验中所获得的知识所制约， 被宗教所制约着去相信一些东西，和不相信一些东西， 天主教徒、新教徒， 以及新教之中无数的分类， 印度教徒、穆斯林， 所有那些正在世界上发生着的荒唐事，一场闹剧。 我们被过去，被各种宣传所制约， 我们就是所有这些东西的产物， 我们是否觉察到了这一点？ |
| That's the first question: to be aware of our past, of our conditioning. The word awareness means something very simple, don't complicate it. Don't go to Burma or attend a monastery, spend the rest of your life studying what it means to be aware. Practice awareness, that's one of the jargons, a cliché that you have learned recently. Just to be aware, to be aware of the colour of that rose, to be aware of that man who brought the water, to be aware of your neighbour, of the colour, the proportions of the hall, to be aware of things happening around you, the squalor, the dirt, the poverty, the ugliness that man has created, the brutality of the things around you, to be aware, to be conscious. | 这是第一个问题： 那就是觉察到我们的过去和我们的局限。 “觉察”这个词的意思是很简单的， 不要把它变复杂了。 不要跑去缅甸，或者进入某个寺院里， 花费你的余生去学习什么是“觉察”。 去练习“觉察”， “觉察”就是你们最近学到的行话和陈词滥调之一。 你只需要去觉察，觉察到那朵玫瑰花的颜色， 觉察到那个给你递水的人， 觉察你的邻居， 觉察到这个大厅的颜色和大小， 觉察到你周围正在发生的事情， 那些肮脏、那些污垢、那些贫穷， 那些人类所创造出来的丑陋之物， 你周围的那些无情残忍的事情， 去觉察它们，去意识到它们。 |
| Now begins the difficulty. You can be aware, that's fairly simple, to be aware of your environment as you walk down the street with the dirt, you know what is happening in New York City better than I do. To be aware. Now when you are aware, what takes place? Do please follow this, it's very simple, you can do it easily yourself. We are sharing this thing together, I am not your guru. You understand? I'm sharing, therefore we are walking the journey together. I am not leading you. Thank God you are not my followers, because you would destroy me and I would destroy you. There is no teacher, there is only you: the teacher and the disciple. So you become both the observer and the learner. So with one breath you put away all gurus, all following, all authority in the spiritual sense. Not the authority of the policeman, not the authority of law, because to change law, the law that exists, you must change yourself first. We want to change the outward laws, established by you, by your prejudice, by your greed, by your avarice, by your desire to seek security, and you want to change those laws without changing yourself. You want to have peace in the world, no wars, no more Vietnam, but you all have war in your heart and you're bound to create wars. | 现在，困难就出现了。 你可以去觉察 ——这是相当简单的—— 觉察你周围的环境， 比如当你走在满是尘埃污垢的大街上时， 你们应该比我更清楚纽约市的情况。 只是去觉察。 那么，当你觉察的时候，会发生什么？ 请跟上我的思路， 它是很简单的，你可以自己去做一下，它很容易。 我们是在一起分享着这件事情， 我并不是你们的古鲁。 你们明白吗？ 我是在与你们分享它， 由此我们便可以一起踏上这段旅程。 我并不是在指引你们。 感谢上帝，你们并不是我的追随者， 否则，你们将会摧毁我，而我也会毁掉你们。 这里没有老师， 只有你：你既是老师，也是弟子。 所以你同时成为了观察者和学习者。 于是你一口气扔掉了所有的古鲁， 所有的跟从，所有灵性上的权威。 不是那种警察的权威， 也不是法律的权威， 因为要改变法律 ——改变现存的法律， 你必须首先改变你自己。 我们想要改变外在的法律 ——这种法律是你们 经由你们的偏见、贪婪、贪财， 和追寻安全感的渴望而制定出来的， 而你们想要改变这些法律， 却不改变你们自己。 你们想要拥有世界的和平。 没有战争，不再有越战（越南战争）， 然而，因为你们内心都充满着战争， 所以你们也注定会制造出战争。 |
| So, to be aware, not only of outward things, of the cloud, of the beauty of a tree and the swift flight of a bird, and the light on the water, to be aware of that is fairly easy because it doesn't touch you at all because it's something outside, far away. But to be aware of oneself, then begins our difficulty. When you are aware of yourself as you are, you say, I don't like that, that's ugly, that's beautiful, this I'll keep, that I won't keep, you're choosing, you're rationalising, you're condemning or justifying, comparing. In that state of comparison, justification, condemnation, your attention is distracted, you're not aware, you are aware of the image which you have brought over from the past, and through that image you're looking at the present, and therefore distorting. Is that clear? I'm sorry, I can't ask if you're clear, its up to you. | 因此，你们要去觉察， 不仅去觉察外在的事物， 觉察云朵， 觉察树木的美 和快速飞过的鸟儿， 觉察水面的光泽， 去觉察这些东西是十分容易的， 因为它完全不会触及到你， 因为它是某种外在的东西， 远离你的东西。 然而要觉察自己，我们就会开始遇到困难。 当你觉察到真实的自己时， 你会说，我不喜欢这个样子，这太丑陋了， 那样子才是美的， 所以我要保持这个，扔掉那个， 你在选择，你在合理化， 你在谴责、辩解、比较。 然而在那种比较、辩解和谴责的状态中， 你的注意力就被分散了， 你并没有在觉察， 你觉察到的是那个形象， 这个形象是你经由过去而带来的， 而你通过这个形象来观察此刻， 由此便产生了扭曲。 这一点清楚了吗？ 抱歉，我是无法去问“你们有没有清楚？”的， 因为这取决于你们自己。 |
| I'll repeat it once more in a different way. When you observe a tree or a bird or the light on a cloud, if you have really observed it, immediately you have words for it, you name it: that's a beautiful cloud. You want to write a poem about it, if you are inclined that way, you want to tell somebody. The verbalisation is a distraction because then you are not looking. The verbalisation is the image of the cloud which you have seen yesterday, and that image projects between you and the actual cloud. Therefore you're looking at that cloud through the screen of words, through the screen of knowledge, through the screen of yesterday's memories. So you are not actually totally aware of that thing. So in the same way, to observe what is going on inwardly, to be aware without any movement of choice. There comes our difficulty because when you observe through the image of the past, you're bringing about a division in your observation as the observer and the thing observed. I hope you are doing this as we are talking. That is, to share. Don't go home and think about it, then you are not doing it. You are doing it actually as you are listening. And that is to share, and that's the beauty of sharing, not take something home in your pocket and then talk about it. That is, to be aware, aware of what is actually going on within yourself, not according to anybody but to observe in this choiceless awareness what actually is. Which means the mind doesn't condemn, doesn't name it, merely observes. That is, I am aware that I'm violent, in all its various forms, sexually, in my speech, in my gesture, in my attitude towards life, violent, separative. And violence also, which is the result of my fear, I am aware of my violence. Now, when I am aware of it I say to myself, I am violent, or I'm jealous or I'm greedy. When you name it or look at it through the word, the word is the past. And so when you look at it through the eyes of the past, you are strengthening what you call violence, because you are relating what is actually taking place to the past, and the past is more or less the firm thing that we have. So, when we name violence, anger, we are strengthening the knowledge which we have acquired about anger. Therefore we are not looking at it anew, afresh, so you are looking at it with the eyes which have been distorted by the past. Shall I go on? | 让我换种说法来重复一下它吧。 当你观察一棵树，一只鸟儿或者云朵的光泽时， 如果你真的去观察一下它们的话， 你会发现你立即就把它们转化为文字了， 你会去命名它： 那是一朵美丽的云彩。 你会想要为它写一首诗 ——如果你喜爱写诗这种方式的话， 你想要去把它告诉别人。 而把它文字化就是一种分心， 因为那时你并没有在看。 那种语言文字化的东西只是 你昨天看到的云朵的意象而已， 而那个意象会投射在你和真实的云朵之间。 所以你是通过文字的屏障， 通过知识的屏障， 通过昨日记忆的屏障在看那个云朵。 因此你并没有真正地、完全地觉察到那个东西。 同样的道理， 要观察我们内在发生着的事情， 要保持觉察，而没有任何选择的行动， 这就是我们的困难所在， 因为当你通过过去的形象来观察事物时， 你就在你的观察中制造出了一种分裂， 一种观察者与被观察物之间的分裂。 我希望当我们谈话的时候， 你就在做着这件事。 那就是分享它。 不要等到回家以后，再去思考它， 那样你就不是在分享它了。 你要在聆听的时候，真正地这样去做。 这就是分享， 这就是分享的美丽之处， 不是把某些东西放在你的口袋里带回家， 然后再谈论它。 也就是说，你要去觉察， 去觉察你内在真正发生着的事情， 不是根据任何人的意见观点来觉察， 而是在这种无选择的觉察中，去观察 实际发生的事情。 这意味着头脑没有在谴责，也没有在命名它， 而仅仅只是观察。 比如说，我觉察到我是暴力的， 这种暴力以各种形式表现出来： 表现在性生活中， 表现在我的讲话中，我的手势中， 以及我对待生活的态度中， 那种暴力，那种分离孤立的倾向。 而暴力同样也是我自己恐惧的产物， 我觉察到了我身上的暴力。 然后，当我觉察到它的时候， 我就会对自己说：我是暴力的， 或者我是嫉妒的，或者我是贪婪的。 然而，当你命名它， 或者当你透过语言文字来看待它的时候 ——语言文字就是过去。 所以，当你用过去的眼睛来观察它时， 你就会加强那个你称之为“暴力”的东西， 因为你将实际正在发生的事与过去联系起来了， 而过去多多少少是我们所拥有的坚实稳固的东西。 因此，当我们给暴力和愤怒命名以后， 我们就增强了我们已有的关于愤怒的知识。 因此我们并没有重新地、崭新地去看它， 所以你是带着 被过去所扭曲的双眼在看它。 我可以继续吗？ |
| A: Yes. | 听众：可以。 |
| K: So the past, as knowledge, is constantly interfering with the present. You have insulted me or praised me, that leaves a mark on the mind. That's the knowledge. And when I meet you, either you are my friend or you're my enemy, judged by the previous incidents happening. So I am always meeting life, this extraordinary movement of life, with the knowledge which is the past. Knowledge is the past. And yet knowledge is necessary. Otherwise you can't go home from here, otherwise you won't be able to recognise, if you want to, your husband or your wife. You won't be able to talk, read, you won't be able to work, technologically or otherwise. So you must have tremendous knowledge, and yet you see the danger, how this very knowledge divides as the observer and the observed. I'm sorry to constantly be changing words, I must, I can't go on repeating the old stuff. That is, we look at a tree, and in looking at that tree, there is the image, the botanical knowledge of that tree, and the like and the dislike of that tree, or the profit if you're a lumberman, there is the image of that tree. So the image is the dividing factor between you and the tree, which means there is a distance between you and the tree, spatial distance as well as time distance. Now, when there is no image, then you look at the tree in a totally different manner, then you are not identifying yourself with the tree, because you can't become a tree, that would be too absurd, but the spatial difference, the distance between you and the tree disappears and you see the tree as you have never seen the tree in your life before, the beauty of the leaf, the curve of the branch, the lightness, the shape, it becomes extraordinarily vital. | 克：所以，过去会作为一种知识 不断地干扰当下。 你曾经侮辱过我，或者称赞过我， 这在我的脑海中留下了一道印记。 这就是知识。 所以当我遇见你时，我会把你判定为我的朋友， 或者我的敌人， 而这种判断来自于过去所发生的那些事情。 因此我总是带着知识在面对生活， 面对生活这种非凡的运动， 而知识，它就是过去。 知识就是过去。 然而知识也是必需的。 否则的话，你就不知道怎么从这里回到自己家了， 否则的话，你就将无法认出 ——如果你想这样做的话—— 你的丈夫或你的妻子了。 你将无法去演讲，去阅读，也无法去工作， 无论是技术上的工作，还是其他什么工作。 所以你必须要有数量惊人的知识， 然而，你也看到了它的危险， 这种知识是如何造成 观察者和被观察物之间的分裂的。 我很抱歉总是在不断地改变措词， 我必须， 我不能再继续重复那些老东西了。 也就是说， 我们看着一棵树， 在看那棵树的过程中， 就会存在一个树的形象， 关于那棵树的植物学上的知识， 对这棵树的喜欢与厌恶， 或者如果你是一个木材商人， 那么你看到的就是利润， 你有着一个关于那棵树的形象。 由此那个形象就成为了夹在你和树之间的， 造成分裂的因素， 那意味着你和那棵树之间存在着一段距离， 既包括空间上的距离，也包括时间上的距离。 现在来看，当没有了形象时， 那么你就会以一种截然不同的方式来观察那棵树了， 那时你就不会把自己认同于那棵树了， 因为你是不可能变成那棵树的， 那将是非常荒谬的， 然后，你与树之间的空间上的差异就消失了， 你与树之间的距离消失了， 而你看那棵树就会变得好像你没看见过树一样 ——好像你一生中从未见过树一样。 那种树叶的美，那种枝条的曲线， 树的光亮，树的形状， 这一切是如此具有生命活力。 |
| Now, when you look at yourself, not only in the mirror when you comb your hair, but also when you look at yourself, you look at yourself with the knowledge which you have acquired about yourself. The image you have about yourself, I must be, I must not be, I should be, I should not be, I will be something different in the future, the whole movement of becoming is the outcome of knowledge. Out of that knowledge you have the image about yourself. And so when you look at yourself you are looking through the eyes of the image which is the past and therefore you are not actually looking. Now, to be aware without choice is to observe without the observer, which is the past, the image maker. Bene? Shall I go on? | 然而，当你观察自己时， 不只是梳头发的时候在镜子里观察自己， 也包括观察你的内心， 你是带着已有的，关于自身的认识在观察自己。 那种你所拥有的关于你自己的形象， 我必须要怎样，我必须不能怎样， 我应该成为什么，我不应该成为什么， 我以后将会变得不一样， 这整个“变成”的运动 就是知识的产物。 经由那种知识，你拥有了关于自己的形象。 所以，当你观察自己时， 你是通过那些形象来看的 ——那些形象就是过去， 因此你并没有在真正地看。 而我想说，没有选择的觉察就是去观察， 而没有一个观察者 ——观察者就是过去， 就是形象的制造者。 没什么问题吧？ 我可以继续吗？ |
| A: Yes. | 听众：可以。 |
| K: Please listen to this, because if you know how to listen you have done everything, you don't have to do a thing, you don't have to make an effort to listen, you don't have to make an effort to change. We'll go into that if we have time later, the necessity of change and whether it is possible and how it is to be done. | 克：请听好， 因为如果你知道如何聆听， 你就已经完成了所有的事情， 你并不需要去做什么事， 你并不需要“努力”去聆听， 你也不需要努力去改变。 如果后面有时间的话，我们将会来探讨它： 即改变的必要性，是否可能改变， 以及如何实现改变。 |
| But to listen. I don't think we ever listen because when we do listen we are thinking about something else. Or we say, I don't like what he's saying, or compare what he is saying to something else. Have you ever listened to your wife or your husband? Don't laugh, please, its a waste of time, don't do it. And its a waste of time to clap, waste of your energy, please don't do it. Clap if you must when I'm not here, much better. Have you ever listened, really listened? Which means the past is absent. That is, the past of the wife who has nagged, bullied, or the husband who has dominated, seeking power, etc., which we don't have to go into, this terrible thing called marriage in which all this thing goes on. And to listen without the past. Then you establish a relationship which is totally different. Then your relationship is not between two images, the image of the wife you have or the image which she has about you. The relationship is now between the two images and therefore it's no relationship at all. I don't know if you have gone into the question of relationship, because look what is happening in the world, you go to the office, with all the problems of the office, with your ambition, the insults that you bear from the boss, the fear, you are separated for I don't know how many hours from the wife or the girl, and the woman and the girl have their own problems, their own miseries, their own confusion, their own ambitions, their pettiness, their shoddiness and all the rest of it. And you come home and you go to bed with her and that's your relationship. You are isolated and she is isolated, and you hope to find some kind of relationship in sex, which you call unity - love my family. | 但现在，请你们聆听。 我并不认为我们曾经聆听过， 因为当我们听的时候，我们脑子里却在想着其他的东西。 或者我们会说， 我并不喜欢他所讲的东西， 或者拿他所讲的东西和其他东西作比较。 你是否曾经聆听过你的妻子或者你的丈夫呢？ 请不要笑，这是在浪费时间，不要这样做。 鼓掌同样也是浪费时间，它是在浪费你们的能量， 请不要鼓掌。 如果一定要鼓掌，当我不在这里的时候，你再鼓掌， 这样会更好一些。 你是否曾经聆听过， 真正地聆听过？ 那意味着过去不在了。 也就是说，你妻子的过去（消失了） ——她曾经唠叨不停，横行霸道， 或者你丈夫总是高高在上，在寻求着权力， 等等，这些我们无需再展开了， 在那个被称之为“婚姻”的可怕事物中， 这一切事情都在发生着。 而你要去聆听，而不带着那些过去。 那样你就会建立起一种截然不同的关系。 那时你们的关系就不再是两个形象之间的关系 ——你所持有的关于妻子的形象，或者她所持有的关于你的形象。 你们现在的关系是两个形象之间的关系， 所以它根本就不算是关系。 我不知道你们是否探究过关系的问题， 看看这个世界上正在发生的事情， 你去办公室上班， 办公室里问题一大堆， 你野心勃勃， 你忍受着来自老板的侮辱，内心感到恐惧， 你出门在外 ——我不知道有多少个小时—— 与你的妻子或者女朋友分开， 而女人和女孩同样也有着她们自己的问题， 她们自己的痛苦、困惑、 野心、琐碎、 卑劣，等等这些。 你回到了家， 然后你和她上床了，而这就是你们的关系。 你是孤立的，而她也是孤立的， 然后你们希望能够在性生活中找到某种关系， 你们把它称为“结合”——这是对我家人的爱。 |
| Now all that has to be understood because to bring about a different society means a different relationship between human beings, between you and your wife and your neighbour. And if your relationship is based on the past, of your memories, of the insults, of the nagging, the past, the images you have about another, ugly or beautiful, or insane, irrational, distorted, then you have no relationship at all. And to be aware of all this, not just occasionally, but to be aware, so as not to form an image. I'll show you in a minute, I'll go into it. Having formed the image, how to be free of it, and not to form image. You understand my question? Andiamo. | 而现在，我们需要去了解这一切事情， 因为要带来一个截然不同的社会， 它意味着一种人与人之间的完全不同的关系， 你和妻子的关系，你和邻居的关系。 而如果你们的关系是建立在过去之上的： 那些记忆、侮辱、唠叨， 所有这些过去的东西，你心中的关于对方的形象， 丑陋或美丽，疯狂的，失去理性的或者扭曲的（形象）， 那么你们就不会有任何关系了。 要去觉察这一切， 不只是偶尔的， 而是一直保持觉察， 从而避免再建立起一个形象。 我马上就会向你们解释它， 我会来探究它。 在已经建立起形象的情况下，要如何摆脱它， 从而不再建立起形象。 你们明白我的问题了吗？ 让我们继续吧。 |
| Take a simple fact: you flatter me. That flattery is pleasing and that leaves a mark on the mind, on the brain cells, and an immediate image is formed that you are my friend, I like you, because you flattered me or scratched my back. And you insult me: that also has left a mark. And that has left an image and you are not my friend. This is the fact, isn't it, this actually takes place every minute of the day, I like you, I don't like you, you're beautiful, you're not, you're intelligent, this constant image forming. Now, when I am flattered, at that instant to be totally aware, neither accepting nor rejecting, just to watch it, watch what is happening to my reactions. When you so completely attentively watch, then there is no distortion, then there is no image forming. You do it now as I'm telling you, you will find out. It's very simple phenomenon, don't complicate it. To be attentive, to be aware at the moment of insult or flattery. At that moment there is no choice, therefore there is no image forming. Then you meet afresh each time a person. That is real innocence. That word innocence means a mind that is incapable of being hurt. Because most people have been hurt from childhood, by the mother or father, by the school, by the teacher, being hurt, hurt, hurt. And these hurts are various forms of knowledge. And we carry them until we die, carry them as memories, which is the past. And time isn't going to resolve them, time will only strengthen them, but whereas if you are aware of this whole movement of the past as image and knowledge, then your mind doesn't record any of the insults, any of the hurts. Therefore your relationship with another undergoes a radical revolution. Because we are related with each other, whether that person lives in Vietnam or in India or in Europe or here or in China, we are related to each other because we are human beings. And if we isolate ourselves with our images of hurts, pain, pleasures, fears, and the terrible competitive ambitious drive, which is so encouraged in this unfortunate country, then relationship becomes a torture, then your relationship is not the actual living beautiful moment but the past. So, one has to be aware of this total movement of the past, not only at the conscious level but also at the deeper levels. | 来看一个简单的事实： 你恭维了我。 这种恭维令人愉快， 而它在我的头脑中，在我的大脑细胞中留下了一个印记， 于是一个形象立即就被建立起来了： 即你是我的朋友，我喜欢你， 因为你恭维了我，或者奉承了我。 而如果你侮辱了我： 那同样也会留下一个印记。 它留下了一个形象： 即你不是我的朋友。 这是一个事实，不是吗？ 这种事情每一天每一刻都在真实发生着， 我喜欢你，我不喜欢你，你很美丽，你并不美丽， 你很聪明， 不断地建立起各种形象。 现在来看，当我被恭维时， 在那个被恭维的瞬间，保持完全的觉察， 既不接受那种恭维，也不拒绝它， 只是去观察它，观察我产生了怎样的反应。 当你如此彻底专注地去观察时， 那么便不会有扭曲，也不会建立起形象了。 现在，你可以在我讲它的时候就这样去做， 然后你就会明白了。 这是一种很简单的现象， 不要把它复杂化了。 留心注意，保持觉察 ——在受到侮辱或恭维的那一刻这样去做。 在那一刻，并没有选择， 由此便不会建立起形象。 那时，你每次遇见一个人都会如若初见。 那才是真正的纯真。 “纯真”这个词的意思是一颗不会受伤的心灵。 因为大多数人从小开始就一直受到伤害， 被母亲或父亲所伤害，被学校伤害，被老师所伤害， 不断地受到伤害。 而这些伤害就成为了各种形式的知识。 而我们一直背负着它们，直到死去， 我们把它们作为记忆而背负着它们， 而记忆就是过去。 而时间并不能化解它们， 时间只会加强它们， 然而，如果你觉察到这整个的运动 ——即过去化为了形象与知识， 那么你的头脑就不会记录下任何侮辱， 任何伤害了。 由此你与他人的关系 就会经历一场彻底的革命。 因为我们是彼此相连的 ——我们和生活在越南的人， 和生活在印度、欧洲、这里或者中国的人（彼此相连）， 我们彼此联系着，因为我们都是人类。 而如果我们把自己孤立起来 ——用我们持有的形象， 用那些伤害、痛苦、快乐、恐惧， 以及那种可怕的，充满竞争态度和野心的驱动力 来孤立自己的话 ——在这个不幸的国家里，人们是如此鼓励它—— 那么关系就会变成一种折磨， 那时你们的关系就不再是真正鲜活的美丽瞬间， 而只是过去。 所以，我们必须要觉察到这整个的过去的运动， 不仅仅是在意识层面上，也包括在深层的意识中。 |
| May I ask what time it is? | 我想问一下现在几点了？ |
| Q: Ten minutes. | 回答：还有十分钟。 |
| K: This is a very complicated problem, because we're living in the past, with the knowledge that we have acquired through centuries. And that very knowledge is destroying us, because that knowledge separates, divides, that knowledge divides the Muslim and the Hindu, the Christian and the rest of it, the Catholic and the Protestant, the division of nationalities, it's all based on the past. And to understand this enormous problem of the past, one has not only, as we have casually and rather briefly examined the knowledge on the surface, but also there is the deep, if one may use the word which is so common, unconscious, the knowledge that has been held down deeply within us, one also has to understand all that. Because one is aware knowledge is essential, absolutely essential, otherwise you can't do anything, but also one is aware that knowledge becomes a factor of distortion in relationship. And relationship is the most important thing in life, otherwise we can't live peacefully, otherwise we will not be able to know what love is. So, to be related, not between two images which are the past, but to be actually related means to have no centre in which the image forming exists. | 克：这是一个非常复杂的问题， 因为我们正生活在过去中， 带着无数世纪以来我们所获得的知识在生活。 而这些知识正在摧毁着我们， 因为那种知识分隔了人类，分裂了人类， 那种知识划分出了穆斯林、印度教徒、 基督教徒等等， 天主教徒和新教徒， 它划分出了不同的国家， 所有这些都是建立在过去之上的。 而要了解这个关于过去的巨大的问题， 我们不仅要了解关于表面事物的知识 ——我们已经很随意简单地检视过了它—— 同样也要了解那种深层的 潜意识 ——如果我可以使用这个非常通俗的词的话—— 那种一直被压抑在我们内心深处的知识， 我们也需要去了解关于它（潜意识）的一切。 因为我们意识到知识是必需的， 它是必不可少的，否则的话你做不了任何事情， 但我们同样也意识到，那就是知识 也是带来关系中的扭曲的因素之一。 而关系是生命中最为重要的东西， 否则的话，我们就无法和平地生活， 否则的话，我们就无法知道什么是爱。 所以，关系就是产生联系， 不是两个形象之间的联系 ——形象就是过去—— 真正的联系意味着没有一个 在关系中建立形象的中心。 |
| Now I'm afraid it's too late to go into the question of how to observe the unconscious, how to expose the whole content of the unconscious, not analytically but expose it. One has to go into it very, very carefully. Perhaps we'll do it tomorrow afternoon but not now. So, we have a few minutes left, so if you would like to ask questions. | 我恐怕现在时间已经太晚了， 没时间去探讨 关于如何观察潜意识的问题了， 如何揭示出潜意识的全部内容， 不是去分析它，而是让它暴露出来。 我们必须要非常非常仔细地去探究它。 也许我们可以在明天下午做这件事， 但现在是不行了。 好了，我们还剩下几分钟时间， 你们是不是想要问问题。 |
| Do you want to ask questions? | 你们想要问问题吗？ |
| Q: Yes. | 回答：想。 |
| K: Now just a minute, before you ask me questions, I would like to say something about asking questions. First of all, why do you ask questions? Not that you must not ask questions, you must, every kind of question, doubt everything. But scepticism must be held on a leash, when to let it go, when to hold it back. And to ask a question, are you expecting the speaker to answer the question or are you asking the question yourselves so that together we answer it? Because the very moment you put the question, the answer is in the question. And if we know how to look at that question, the answer is there. So we have to bear in mind when you ask questions that you must not only ask the right question, which doesn't mean the speaker is preventing you from asking questions, also in asking the right question, there is depth behind that question, because the right question has immense depth. And the shallow question is the wrong question, because it is very superficial. So one has to be aware when you ask a question. And in asking questions you are exposing yourself to yourself. If that is understood, please fire away. | 克：请稍等一下，在你们问我问题之前， 我想先谈一谈“问问题”这件事。 首先，你们为什么要问问题？ 这并不是说你们不应该问问题， 你们必须要问， 问各种问题，去怀疑每一样东西。 但是你必须要掌控好这种怀疑， 什么时候去怀疑，什么时候不要怀疑。 而当你问了一个问题以后， 你是否在期待着演讲者来回答这个问题， 还是说你也在向自己问这个问题， 所以我们会一起来回答它？ 因为当你提出问题的那一刻， 答案就已经包含在问题中了。 如果我们知道如何去观察那个问题， 答案就已经在那儿了。 所以我们需要牢记于心的是， 当你问问题时， 你不仅要问出正确的问题 ——这并不表示演讲者在阻止你们 问问题—— 此外，在问出了正确的问题以后， 那个问题背后也会存在一种深度， 因为正确的问题蕴含着惊人的深度。 而那些浅薄表面的问题则是错误的问题， 因为它是非常肤浅的。 所以当你问问题的时候，你需要对此有所意识。 在问问题的时候，你也是在向自己揭示出自己。 要是这一点已经明白了，那就向我开炮吧。 |
| Q: Excuse me, sir. Should a man who does not truly love himself try to help others love themselves, or should anyone try to help anyone? | 问：先生，我想请问一下， 一个并不是真正爱他自己的人， 还应该试图去帮助别人去爱他们自己吗？ 或者说，我们是否应该试图去帮助别人？ |
| K: Should anyone help another. I wonder what you mean by helping another. The doctor helps you, if he's a good doctor, a good dietician, the signpost says, tells you how to go to a certain place, they're all help, aren't they? But when you assume that you can help another, you've already taken a position, and therefore that position becomes authoritative and therefore you destroy all sense of humility. Helping is like the scent of a flower on the wayside, it is there, the perfume, the colour, the beauty, the quiet sense of its flowering, it is there, and if you want to smell it, smell it, if you don't, don't. And that is help. If you have something to give, give without knowing that you are giving. Right? | 克：我们是否应该去帮助别人。 我想知道你所说的帮助别人是什么意思。 医生可以帮助你 ——如果他是一个好医生， 或者一个好营养医师的话， 路标也会指明方向，告诉你如何达到某个地点， 他们都能帮助你，不是吗？ 然而当你假设自己可以帮助别人的时候， 你就已经让自己处于某种“地位”了， 因此那种“地位”就会演变成权威， 由此你便摧毁了所有的谦卑感。 “帮助”就如同路边花朵的香味， 它就在那儿， 那种芬芳、那种色彩、那种美， 它静静地开花， 它就在那里，如果你想要去闻一下， 那就去闻一下， 如果你不想闻，那就不要闻。 这就是帮助。 如果你有一些可以给予的东西， 那就去给予，但你并不知道自己在给予。 对吗？ |
| Q: Jiddu, we would like to ask you that, of course, you certainly consider yourself to be a very great man but what is your opinion of Buddha? | 问：吉度，我们想问你一个问题， 毫无疑问， 你肯定认为自己是一个很伟大的人， 那么你是怎么看待佛陀的？ |
| K: You consider yourself a great man, of course, how do you consider the Buddha. The Buddha, who was a religious teacher in the 5th century B. C. in India. First, I don't consider myself at all, neither great or small, and I really mean it. And that is an irrelevant question. When you say what do you think about the Buddha, I don't think about the Buddha, because thought doesn't enter into the field of understanding. Thought doesn't exist where love is. When there is love and when there is that state of mind when there is no operation of thought, there is no comparison. | 克：毫无疑问，你会把自己视为一个伟大的人， 那么你是如何看待佛陀的呢。 佛陀， 他是一位宗教导师， 生活在公元前五世纪的印度。 首先，我根本不关心我自己 究竟是伟大还是渺小， 这是我的真心话。 不过这只是一个无关痛痒的问题。 而你问我：“你觉得佛陀怎么样？ ” 我从来不去想佛陀是怎么样的， 因为思想是无法进入了悟的领域的。 当有了爱时，思想就不复存在了。 当有了爱，当有了那种心灵的境界， 当思想不再运作时， 就不会有比较了。 |
| Q: Could we talk about distractions? | 问：能不能来谈一下“分心”？ |
| K: Could we talk about distraction. | 克：能不能来谈一下“分心”。 |
| Q: Say that you're listening to someone and there's a sound, and the two sounds conflict. Now, you say there should be no choice, yet doesn't the mind, go toward... | 问：比方说你在听某个人讲话， 这时候出现了另外一个声音， 于是这两种声音就会产生冲突。 而你说，我们应该“没有选择”， 然而，头脑难道不会去 |
| K: Yes, I've understood your question. Distraction. Why do you call it distraction? You want to hear what he's saying, you listen for two minutes or a minute or a second, and your mind wanders off. Why do you call it a distraction? Why do you compare, say this I want to listen and that I don't want to listen? Now, by saying that it is a distraction you're already in a conflict, aren't you? Because I want to listen to you, what you're talking about, I give my attention for a few minutes to you. And my mind cannot sustain that attention and it goes off. I won't call it distraction. I say, all right, it's gone off, I want to find out why it is being pulled away in that direction. I'm interested not in a fixed attention but attention, whether the attention of listening to you or the attention that makes me wander away. I attend to what is called distraction, which is not a distraction. If there is attention there is no distraction. You've got it? It is only the mind that is not attending completely, such a mind wanders off. And then you say, after having been distracted, then you say, how am I to get back to attention? So there is a battle. So, be attentive to what is being said and to when the mind wanders off. The factor is be attentive, and then you don't have conflict. The greatest crime one can commit is to have conflict within oneself, because that conflict expresses itself in the world outside you, as hate, envy, bore, aggression, brutality, killing. And to find out a way of life in which there is no conflict whatsoever is to live a totally different kind of life. We'll go into that perhaps tomorrow. | 克：好的，我已经明白了你的问题。 分心。 你为什么要把它称为“分心”呢？ 你想要聆听某人所说的话， 你听了两分钟，或者一分钟，或者一秒钟， 然后你就开小差了。 但你为什么要把它称为“分心”呢？ 你为什么要去比较， 说：这个我喜欢听，而那个我不想听？ 现在来看，如果你这么说了， 这就是一种分心， 你已经处于冲突之中了， 不是吗？ 我想要聆听你，聆听你所说的东西， 我聚精会神地听了你几分钟。 然后我的思想无法再保持专注，它去了别的地方。 我不会把这称为“分心”。 我会说，好吧，它（思想）去了别的地方， 我会想要搞清楚：为什么它会离开，往那个方向去。 我感兴趣的并不是那种集中固定的注意力， 而是注意力本身， 不管它是聆听你话语的注意力， 还是那种让我开小差的注意力。 我在留意那个被称为“分心”的事物， 而这并不是一种分心。 如果你在留意，那么就不会有分心。 你明白了吗？ 只有那个没有保持完全注意的头脑， 这样的头脑才会开小差。 然后，在开小差了以后， 你说：我要如何才能恢复注意力？ 于是便有了一场战斗。 所以去注意对方所说的东西， 也要注意到你的头脑何时开小差了。 要点在于保持注意， 然后你就不会有冲突了。 我们所能犯的最大的罪 就是让自己的内心产生冲突， 因为内心的冲突会在外部世界中表现出来， 它会表现为憎恨、嫉妒、厌烦、侵略性、残忍和杀戮。 而要找到一种 没有任何冲突的生活方式， 就是要去过一种截然不同的生活。 也许我们明天可以来探讨它。 |
| Q: Sir, I find myself very frightened all the time, like I try to face myself and I try to face what you're saying, try to live more fully, but I find that the past always interferes with me and I'm too frightened to look at myself and my life. | 问：先生，我发现自己一直都充满了恐惧， 比如说我试图去面对我自己， 我试图去面对你所说的东西， 试着去更充分完全地生活， 但我发现过去总是在干扰着我， 我感到十分害怕，而不敢去观察我自己和我的生活。 |
| K: I'm afraid I haven't understood the question. Has somebody understood it? Thought interferes, is that it? | 克：我恐怕并没有明白你的问题。 有人明白吗？ 思想带来了干扰，是这个问题吗？ |
| Q: Fear makes thought. | 回答：恐惧造就了思想。 |
| K: Fear, thought and fear interferes. You know, these two things, like thought and fear, one has to go very, very deeply into it. We will tomorrow, shall we? Because it isn't a thing that you can just say well, get rid of thought or get rid of fear, that would be too stupid, but one has to understand this whole question of fear. One has to go into this, what is thought, why thought has become so extraordinarily important in life. And what is the place of thought. And that cannot be discussed or talked over in a few minutes now. May we then talk about it tomorrow? Is that all right? I think we'd better stop, don't you? Because I believe you wanted the hall by half-past seven. | 克：恐惧，思想和恐惧都会带来干扰。 你知道，对于这两个东西 ——思想和恐惧， 我们必须要非常非常深入地去探究它。 我们明天再来谈它吧，可以吗？ 因为它不是一个简单的东西， 让你可以随随便便地说： 好吧，那就扔掉思想或者扔掉恐惧， 那样就太蠢了， 我们必须要去了解这整个的关于恐惧的问题。 我们必须要去探究它， 思想是什么？ 为什么思想在我们的生活中 会变得如此至关重要？ 思想应有的位置是什么？ 而我们不可能只用区区几分钟时间来讨论或者探讨它。 所以我们是否可以明天再来讨论它？ 好吗？ 我想最好还是到此为止吧，你们觉得呢？ 因为我知道你们七点半的时候要用这个礼堂。 |
