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SA81T5 - 大脑能否彻底自由？
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| Krishnamurti: We've got three more talks – today, Thursday and Sunday. We have to cover quite a bit during these three talks. First, we have to consider together whether the brain, which is now only operating partially, whether that brain has the capacity to function wholly, completely. I do not know if you have gone into that question at all. Because we are now only using a part of it. One can observe this for oneself without going to any specialist. One can see that any specialisation – which may be necessary – whether that specialisation does not bring about the functioning of only a part of the brain. If one is a scientist, specialised in that subject, naturally, only one part is functioning – or if one is a mathematician and so on. And we are asking whether – together we are asking, we are not imposing the question on you – we must ask this question: whether the brain – though in the modern world one has to specialise – whether it is possible to allow the brain to operate wholly, completely. That is one of the problems we are going to discuss this morning. | 克里希那穆提： 我们还有三次谈话—— 今天、周四和周日。 在这三次谈话中， 我们要谈的还很多。 首先，我们必须一同思考， 这个现在只是 在部分地运作的大脑， 究竟有没有能力 完整、充分地运作。 不知你们探究过 这个问题没有。 现在我们只是 在使用大脑的一部分。 这点你无须请教专家， 你自己就可以观察到。 你可以看到，任何专业化 ——专业化 或许是必要的—— 这种专业化 有没有导致这种 头脑只有 部分在运转的情况。 如果你是科学家， 专攻那个学科， 那么，你自然就 只有一部分头脑在运作 ——或者，你是个 数学家等等，也是一样。 我们要问 ——我们是一起来问， 我们不是把问题强加给你—— 我们必须问这个问题： 大脑究竟 ——尽管在现代社会， 你必须从事专业工作—— 有没有可能 让头脑 完整地、充分地运作。 这是今天上午 我们要讨论的一个问题。 |
| And the other problem is: what is going to happen to humanity, to all of us, when the computer, which can outthink man accurately, much more quickly, rapidly, and if it can do that, as the computer experts are saying it can, with the help of the robot, man will then only have a couple of hours of work a day. This is going to happen within the next 5, 10, 20 years. Then what will man do? Either he is going to follow the entertainment field which is already taking place, sports are becoming more and more important if you have watched the television. Entertainment in different forms, football – you know, all that is happening. And also religious entertainment. Either humanity is going to follow the whole movement of entertainment, or it is going to turn inwardly, which is not an entertainment, which demands a much greater capacity of observation, examination, non-personal perception and so on – inwardly. These are the two possibilities. And this is happening already. The entertainment world is going to take over – the cinemas, etc. Or the computer can formulate a new religion, putting all the religions together, synthesise, bring out something totally new. And humanity, which is another form of entertainment, will follow that, or enter into something totally different. That is one problem. | 另一个问题则是： 如果计算机 在准确性和速度方面 超过人类的思想， 人类，也就是我们 所有人将会发生 什么情况？ 如果计算机 能够做到这些， 就像计算机 专家所预言的那样， 有了机器人的协助， 那时候，人或许每天 只需工作两个小时。 这可能会在今后 5年、10年或20年实现。 那时候人会去 做什么呢？ 他要么会去 关注娱乐领域， 现在已经是这种情况了， 体育节目越来越受重视了 ——如果你 看过电视的话。 像足球啦，各种娱乐， 五花八门。 ——现在发生的这些事， 你都了解。 还有打着 宗教旗号的娱乐。 人类要么会去关注 所有的娱乐活动， 要么会将注意力 转向内在， 这不是娱乐活动， 这种关注， 对于向内的观察能力、 调查能力和客观的 认识能力等 都提出了更高的要求。 存在这两种可能性。 这是已经发生的事情。 娱乐世界， 比如电影院之类的， 将会占据我们的生活。 或者，计算机 会构想出一种新的宗教， 把所有宗教汇合在一起， 糅合成某种全新的东西。 人类会去关注这个，而这 其实是另一种形式的娱乐， 还是说，人类会进入 某种截然不同的领域？ 这是一个问题。 |
| And the other is: the whole content of our consciousness is basically fear, pleasure, the pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of fear, and the suffering of mankind. That is the basic content of our human consciousness with its varieties. These are the three problems that man is facing. If humanity is going to follow entertainment, it is very simple. And one hopes these gatherings are not a form of entertainment. | 另一个问题则是： 从根本上讲，我们意识的 全部内容就是恐惧， 快乐， 追逐快乐和逃避恐惧， 还有人类 所遭受的痛苦。 这是我们 人类多种多样的 意识的基本内容。 这些是人类面临的 三个问题。 如果人类去关注娱乐， 问题就很简单了。 我希望这些聚会 不是一种形式的娱乐。 |
| And also: whether the brain can be totally free so as to function wholly. Because any specialisation, any following a certain path, a certain groove, certain pattern, must inevitably make the brain function partially and therefore limited energy. I hope we are thinking together about all this. | 还有， 头脑能不能彻底自由， 从而可以完整地运作？ 因为任何专业化， 任何遵循某条路线， 某种规范或模式的做法， 必然都会使 头脑只能部分地运作， 因而能量会受到限制。 希望我们是在 一起思考这些问题。 |
| And we live in a world of specialisation. Engineers, physicists, surgeons, carpenters – the whole mechanical world. And also specialisation of a particular belief, of a particular dogma, rituals – they are all specializations. And though certain specializations – which are necessary, like surgeons, carpentry and so on – whether, in spite of that specialisation, whether the brain can function completely, wholly, not partially, and therefore have tremendous energy. I hope we are following each other. We are thinking together, right? Is this a problem at all to any of us, or the speaker is imposing this problem onto you? We have so many problems, I don't know why we have so many problems, but don't let's add another problem to already innumerable other problems. This is, I think, a very serious question into which we have to enquire together. | 我们生活在 一个专业化的世界里。 有工程师、物理学家、 外科医生、 木匠，等等 ——整个机械的世界。 还有某种 专业化的信仰， 专业化的教义和仪式 ——这些都是专业化。 尽管某些专业工作 是必要的，例如 外科医生、木匠，等等， 究竟 尽管那种专业化是必要的， 头脑究竟能否完整全面地， 而不是部分地运作， 从而拥有巨大的能量？ 我希望我们彼此理解了。 我们是在一起思考着， 对吧？ 这究竟是不是 我们每个人的问题， 还是说，是讲者在 强加给你这个问题？ 我们有这么多问题。 我不明白为什么 我们有这么多问题， 但我们的问题 已经多如牛毛， 我们不要 再增加新的问题了。 我认为这是个 非常严肃的问题， 我们必须一同来探究一下。 |
| If you observe your own activity, one's own activity, you will find more and more that the brain operates only very partially, very, very little. And therefore our energy becomes less and less and less as we grow older. Biologically, physically, when we are young we are full of this vitality, but as we get educated, follow a livelihood which needs specialisation, that brain becomes small, narrow, limited, and therefore the energy becomes less and less and less, but it has its own vitality. | 你如果观察 你自己的活动， 就会发现头脑越来越 只在非常局部， 非常非常琐碎的 领域运作。 于是，随着年龄增长， 我们的精力 越来越少。 我们的身体 在年轻时充满了 那种能量和活力， 但是在接受了教育， 并依靠专业技能 维持生计之后， 这颗大脑就变得 渺小、狭隘、局限起来， 于是越来越缺乏能量， 但大脑有它自己的活力。 |
| So we are asking whether that brain – though it may have to have a certain form of specialisation, not necessarily religious because that is superstition, we can put all that out – suppose I am a surgeon, I have to specialise, whether in spite of that the brain can operate wholly. It can only operate wholly, completely, with all the tremendous vitality of a million years behind it, only when it is completely free. Are we meeting each other? As a question, we are going to enquire whether the brain can ever be totally free, in spite of the specialisation which is necessary for a livelihood. And it may not be necessary if the computer takes over. It won't take over surgery, obviously. It won't take over the feeling of beauty, looking at the evening stars, the Orion, and the Pleiades and so on. But it may take over other functions altogether. So can the human brain be totally free, without any form of attachment? Because attachment of any kind, physical, attachment to certain belief, experience and so on. Can the brain be so completely free... If the brain cannot be so totally free, it will begin to deteriorate because when it is occupied with problems, with specialisation, livelihood and so on, it is active. The brain is active, but when the computer takes over this activity the brain will have less and less problems and therefore it will gradually deteriorate. This is happening, it is not something in the future, it is actually happening now when you observe one's own activity. Right? | 那么，我们要问， 这颗大脑究竟 ——尽管头脑或许 需要在某些方面专业化， 不一定是宗教方面， 因为那是迷信，我们 可以把那些都放一边—— 假设我是外科医生， 我必须专攻医术， 尽管如此， 大脑究竟能否 完整地运作呢？ 大脑只有在 完全自由的情况下， 才能以进化了 一百万年的惊人活力 完整全面地运作。 我们彼此沟通上了吗？ 我们这就来探讨 这样一个问题： 大脑究竟 能不能彻底自由？ 尽管专业化 对于谋生来说是 必要的。 如果计算机会替我们工作， 或许专业化就不必要了。 显然，它替代不了 外科手术。 替代不了 人对美的感受， 对夜星的遥望， 像 猎户座啦， 昴星团啦，什么的。 但是它或许会 接手所有其它工作。 所以，人类的头脑 能否彻底自由， 没有任何形式的依附？ 因为任何形式的依附， 外在的依附， 对某种信仰， 某次经验的依附，等等。 大脑能否完全自由 如果头脑不能 彻底自由， 它就会开始衰退， 当头脑忙于 解决问题， 忙于专业工作， 忙于谋生等等时， 它是活跃的。 大脑是活跃的， 但如果计算机 接替了这些活动， 大脑需要处理的问题 就会越来越少， 因而它会渐渐退化。 这种事情正在发生， 这不是什么将来的事情， 你观察一下自己的行为， 就会看到，这实际正在发生。 对吗？ |
| So the question is, we have to find an answer to whether the brain can be totally free and therefore function altogether, not partially. And whether our consciousness with its content, basically fear, the pursuit of pleasure and all the implications of that, and grief, pain, sorrow, being hurt inwardly and so on, that is the basic content of one's consciousness. You may have other forms of consciousness: a group consciousness, racial consciousness, national consciousness, the consciousness of a particular group, the consciousness of the Catholic group, the Hindu group and so on, but basically the consciousness with its content is fear, pleasure, the pursuit of pleasure, pain, sorrow, death – right? This is the central content of our consciousness. We are thinking together, please. We are thinking together, examining together. The speaker is not laying down anything. We are together observing the whole phenomenon of existence, human existence, that is our existence. As we pointed out earlier, we are mankind, because our consciousness, whether it is a Christian living in the Western world or in the Middle East or in the Asiatic world, that consciousness, its content is basically fear, pursuit of pleasure, pain, hurts, sorrow, and the neverending burden of all this. So our consciousness is not personal, mine. This is very difficult to accept because we have been so conditioned, so educated, that we resist this actuality which means we are not individuals at all. We are the whole of mankind. It is not a romantic idea, it is not a philosophical concept, it is absolutely not an ideal. If one examines it closely, it is a fact. So we are going together to find out whether the brain can be free from the content of its consciousness. | 那么问题就是， 我们必须来回答， 大脑究竟能不能 彻底自由， 从而完整地 而非部分地运作。 我们的意识 及其内容， 从根本上讲就是恐惧， 追逐快乐及其 隐含的那些东西， 还有悲痛、痛苦、哀伤、 内心受到伤害等等， 那是人的意识的 基本内容。 你也许有 其它形式的意识， 像群体意识、种族意识、 国家意识、 某个特定群体的意识， 天主教团体意识、 印度教团体意识等等， 但从根本上说， 这个意识及其内容 就是恐惧、快乐、 对快乐的追逐， 痛苦、悲伤、死亡 ——对吗？ 这些构成了 我们意识的核心内容。 请注意， 我们是在共同思考。 我们是在共同思考， 共同调查。 讲者不是在制定 什么规则。 我们是在一同完整地 观察人类生活的现象， 也就是我们生活的现象。 正如我们以前所指出的， 我们是人类， 因为我们的意识 无论你是生活 在西方的基督教徒， 还是中东的穆斯林， 或者是亚洲的佛教徒， 那个意识内容 从根本上讲都是恐惧、 对快乐的追求、 痛苦、伤害、悲伤， 和这些所带来的 无尽无休的烦恼。 所以我们的意识不是 个人的意识，我的意识。 这是很难让人接受的， 因为我们受到了 如此多的制约和训练， 以至于我们拒绝接受 这个意味着我们 根本不是个体的事实。 我们就是人类整体。 这不是浪漫的想法， 不是哲学观念， 也绝不是理想。 你仔细调查一下， 就会看到这是事实。 因此，我们 将一起去弄清， 头脑能否从它的 意识内容中解脱出来。 |
| Sirs, why do you listen? Why do you listen to the speaker? Or in listening to the speaker you are listening to yourself. Right? Is that what is taking place? The speaker is only pointing out, he is acting as a mirror in which you see actually yourself. The actuality of one's own consciousness, not the description which the speaker is pointing out, not the description, which becomes merely an idea, if you merely follow the description. But through the description you yourself actually perceive your own state of mind, brain, your own consciousness, then the listening to the speaker has a certain importance. But if you are merely listening to the speaker as a telephone, then it has very little value. Right? So please, don't say to yourself, at the end of these talks and questions and answers, 'I haven't changed. Why have I not changed? It is your fault. You have spoken for sixty years perhaps, and I have not changed.' Is it the fault of the speaker, or you have not been able to apply it? And so if you don't apply, naturally, it is the fault of the speaker. Then you become cynical and do all kinds of absurd things. So please bear in mind that we are listening not to the speaker, but through the description and the words we are looking at our own consciousness which is the consciousness of all humanity. The Western world may believe in a certain symbol religiously, a certain figure, certain rituals, and the Eastern world also has the same thing, but behind it the same fear, the same pursuit of pleasure, grief, pain, being hurt, wanting this, the whole of that is the movement of common humanity. Right? | 先生们， 你们为什么要来听？ 你们为什么要听我说话？ 还是说， 在听我说的过程中， 你们其实是在倾听自己。 对吗？ 你们是在倾听自己吗？ 讲者只是指出某些事情， 他是作为一面镜子，让你们 从中看见真实的自己。 看见自己意识的 真实情况， 而不是听讲者 指明问题的那段话， 不是听那段说明， 如果你只是接受那段话， 那就不过是 一种观念而已。 但是你如果通过这段话， 亲自真正看到了 自己头脑的状态， 看到了自己意识的状态， 那么对讲者的这种倾听 就有了某种意义。 但如果你只是像接听 电话一样去听讲者说话， 那就意义甚微了。 对吗？ 所以，请注意， 不要在这些谈话和 问答会结束时自言自语， “我没有改变。 为什么我没有改变？ 这是你的过错。 你讲了可能有六十年了， 而我并没有改变。 ” 这是讲者的过错， 还是说，你没有 能够去下功夫？ 所以，如果你不下功夫， 这当然是讲者的问题。 然后，你就怀疑起来， 做出各种荒唐之举。 因此请记住， 我们并不是 在听讲者讲话， 而是在通过这些描述， 通过这些话语 来观察我们自己的意识 也就是全人类的意识。 西方社会或许信仰 某种宗教符号， 信仰某个形象、某些仪式， 同样，东方 也有这种东西， 但其背后是同样的恐惧， 同样的对快乐的追求， 同样的悲伤、痛苦、受伤、 这样那样的期盼等等， 所有这些都是 共同人性所具有的运动。 对吗？ |
| So in listening, we are learning about ourselves, not following the description and therefore learning the description, but actually learning to look and therefore bringing about a total freedom in which the whole of the brain can operate. Right? After all sir, meditation, love and compassion is the operation of the whole of the brain. When there is the operation of the whole, there is integral order. And when there is integral, inward order there is total freedom. And it is only then that there can be something which is timelessly sacred. That is not a reward. That is not something to be achieved. But that comes about, that which is eternally timeless, sacred, only when the brain is totally free to function wholly, and in that wholeness there is order and so freedom. | 因此，在聆听过程中， 我们是在了解自己， 我们不是在遵循讲解， 于是学习这些讲解， 实际上，我们是在学习观察， 从而带来一种能够让 整个大脑都可以运作 起来的完全的自由。 对吗？ 毕竟，先生， 冥想、 爱和慈悲 就是头脑整体运作的状态。 有了整体的运作， 就有了完整的秩序。 有了完整的内在秩序， 就会有彻底的自由。 只有那时， 那永恒的神圣之物 才能存在。 那不是一种奖赏， 不是要达成的什么。 只有当头脑可以完全 自由地完整运作时， 那永远无关时间的 神圣之物才会降临， 在那完整的状态中存在着 秩序，因而存在着自由。 |
| So, after stating that let's proceed to find out together whether the content of our consciousness which is the operation of thought, the content is put together by all the activities of thought, which we will go into, and whether that content can ever be freed so that there is a totally different dimension altogether. Right? First let us observe together the whole movement of pleasure. There is not only biological, sexual pleasure, there is pleasure in possession, pleasure in having money, pleasure in achieving something that you have been working towards. There is pleasure in power, political, religious, power over a person, power in the acquisition of knowledge and the expression of that knowledge, as a professor, as a writer, as a poet, the gratification that comes about through knowledge. And the pleasure of leading a very strict, moral, ascetic life, the pleasure of achieving something inwardly which is not common to an ordinary man. And this has been the pattern of our existence for millions of years. Our brain is conditioned to it, therefore our brain has become limited. Right? I wonder if you see this. Anything that is conditioned must be limited, and therefore the brain, when it is pursuing these forms and many other forms of pleasure, it must inevitably become small, limited, narrow. And probably unconsciously realising this, one seeks different forms of entertainment, a release through sex, through different kinds of fulfilment and so on. Right? Please observe it in yourself, you are not listening to me, you are listening to yourself, your own activity of daily life. And if you observe, your brain is occupied all day with something or other, chattering, talking, endlessly, that is going on, like a machine that never stops. And so the brain is gradually wearing itself out, and it is going to be inactive if the computer is going to take its place – all the things the computer will do. | 那么，讲完这些，接下来 我们一起来弄清 我们的 意识内容 ——我们的意识 就是思想的运作， 所有思想活动将 意识内容组合在一起， 我们讲探究一下这个—— 那个意识内容到底 有没有可能得到释放， 从而出现一个完全 不同维度的意识？ 对吗？ 我们先来观察 快乐的整体运动。 不仅有生理的、 性的快乐， 还有占有的快乐， 拥有钱财 而带来的快乐， 也有那种朝着某个方向 努力并达到目标的快乐。 有在政治上、宗教上 拥有权力的快乐， 有控制别人的快乐， 有能够像教授、作家、 诗人那样获得知识 并表现 那种知识的快乐， 还有那种 通过知识获得的满足。 还有过一种 非常严格的、 有道德的苦行生活的快乐， 在内心达到某种 对常人来说不同寻常的 状态的快乐。 这是我们数百万年来 所一直遵循的 生存模式。 我们的头脑受制于 这种模式的条件作用， 因而也变得局限起来。 对吗？ 不知你们明白这个吗？ 任何受条件作用 影响的东西一定是局限的， 因此头脑 在追求这些快乐和 许多其它方面快乐时， 不可避免地会变得 琐碎、局限、狭隘。 你或许无意识地 认识到这些， 便去寻求不同形式的娱乐， 或者通过性来宣泄， 或者通过寻求各种 满足来释放，如此等等。 对吗？ 请在自己身上观察一下， 你不是在听我讲， 你是在倾听你自己， 观察你自己的日常活动。 你观察一下就会看到， 自己头脑整天都被 这样那样的事情占据着， 喋喋不休， 没完没了地唠叨， 像永动机一样一刻不停。 于是，头脑逐渐地 把自己累垮了， 而如果计算机 将取代大脑， 那么大脑就会无所事事 ——因为一切 都可以由计算机完成。 |
| So why is man, a human being caught in this perpetual pursuit of pleasure. Why? Please, find out, let's find out. Is it because he is so utterly lonely? Escape from that sense of isolation? Is it that he has been, from childhood, conditioned to this? Is it because thought, creating the image of pleasure and pursuing it? You follow? So can we ask together whether thought is the source of pleasure. Right? Is it? That is, one has had some kind of pleasure, either eating very tasty food, sexual, or the sense of being flattered and so on, thought has... or rather the brain has registered it. I didn't know there were so many trains. These incidents which have brought about pleasure have been recorded in the brain, and the remembrance of that pleasure of yesterday or last week, that remembrance is the movement of thought, and so thought is the movement of pleasure. Right? Thought has registered that incident, pleasurable, exciting, worthwhile to remember, and it is stored, held, attached, and thought projects in the future and pursues it. Right? | 那么，人类为什么 会陷入这种对快乐的 无尽追求。 为什么？ 请弄清楚这个， 我们来看一看。 是因为他非常 孤独寂寞吗？ 是因为他想要逃避 那种隔绝感吗？ 是因为他们从童年起 就习惯这样了吗？ 是因为 思想 制造了快乐的形象 并追逐那个形象吗？ 你明白吗？ 那么，我们能否一起去问， 思想究竟 是不是快乐之源？ 对吗？ 思想是吗？ 即，你经历过某种快乐， 或者是品尝美味的食物， 或者是性的快乐， 或者是被奉承的 快乐，等等， 思想 更确切地说，大脑， 记录了那个快乐。 我不明白 怎么有这么多火车。 这些引起快乐的事件 由大脑记录下来， 大脑记住昨天或上周的 那次快乐， 那种回忆就是 思想的活动。 所以，思想就是 快乐的运动。 对吗？ 思想把那些 令人愉快、使人兴奋、 值得记住的事情 记录下来， 把它储存起来，记住， 固定下来， 然后，思想投射出将来 并追逐它所投射的意象。 对吗？ |
| So the question there is: why does thought, or memory of an incident that is over, finished, carry on? Is that part of our occupation? A man who wants money, power, position, is perpetually occupied with it. Perhaps similarly, the brain is occupied with this question of remembrance of something a week ago which gave great pleasure, being held in the brain and thought projects future pleasure and pursues it. This is the repetition of pleasure, which is the movement of thought and therefore limited. Right? I wonder if we see this. And therefore the brain can never function wholly, it can only function partially. | 那么这里的问题就是， 为什么思想，或者记忆， 在事件已经结束之后 还在继续？ 那是我们的 一部分消遣吗？ 一个想要 钱财、权力、地位的人 永远都在忙于那些事情。 或许，类似地， 大脑也忙于这个问题—— 大脑回想着留在脑海里的 一周前那件带来 巨大快乐的事件， 然后，思想投射出将来的 快乐，并追逐那个快乐。 这种活动 就是对快乐的重复 ——这种重复 就是思想的活动—— 因而就是局限的。 对吗？ 不知我们看到这个没有。 因而头脑从来 都不能完整地运作， 而只能部分地运作。 |
| Now, the next question that arises: what am I to do? If this is the pattern of thought, how can thought be stopped? Or how can the brain not register that incident of yesterday which gave me delight? That is the obvious question. Right? Now, why do you put such a question? Just investigate it. Why? Is it because you want to escape from the movement of pleasure, and that very escape is another form of pleasure? You understand what I am saying? Right? Whereas if you say, look, this is a fact. The fact is, the incident which gave great delight, pleasure, excitement, and the fact is it is over, it is not a living thing of that which happened a week ago, it was a living thing then but now it is not. Right? Can you finish last week's pleasure, entertainment, excitement, finished, end it, not carry it over. It is not, how to end it. It is not, how to stop it. But just see the fact, how the brain is operating, how thought is operating. If one is aware of that, thought itself will come to an end. That is, the registering of last week's pleasure is ended, finished. Right? Please sirs, if we don't do this, don't accuse the speaker of not making it clear, and therefore becoming cynical or being helped to be cynical. | 那么， 下一个问题出来了： 我该怎么办？ 如果这是思想的模式， 那么要如何停止思想？ 或者说，头脑怎样 才能不去记录昨天那件 让我高兴的事情？ 显然会出现那个问题。 对吗？ 那么，为什么你会 提出这样一个问题呢？ 调查一下。 为什么？ 是不是因为 你想要逃避这种 追求快乐的思想活动， 而那个逃避恰恰 是另一种形式的快乐？ 你理解我说的吗？ 对吗？ 然而如果你说， 听着，这是事实。 事实是，虽然那件事 让人兴高采烈， 但事实是那件事 已经结束。 那件事发生在一周前， 不是现在正在发生的事情； 当时那件事正在发生， 但现在没有。 对吗？ 你能不能结束 上星期的快乐、 娱乐、兴奋， 把它结束， 不再去想它。 这不是如何结束的问题。 不是如何停止的问题。 而就是看到这个事实 ——头脑是怎么运作的, 思想是怎么运作的。 如果你意识到这一点， 那么思想自己就会终止。 就是说，对上周的 快乐的记录 就停止了，就结束了。 对吗？ 请注意，先生们， 如果我们不这么做， 那么就不要 责怪讲者没给讲清楚， 然后就怀疑起来， 或者以此为借口怀疑起来。 |
| And the other problem is fear. Again, this is the common ground of all mankind, whether you are living in a small house, or in a palace, whether you have no work or have plenty of work, whether you have tremendous knowledge about everything on earth, whether you are a priest, whether you are the highest representative of God or whatever it is, there is still this deep rooted fear in all mankind. That is a common ground on which all humanity stands. There is no question about it. That is an absolute, irrevocable fact. It cannot be contradicted, it is a fact. And again, as long as the brain is caught in this pattern of fear, its operation is limited. Right? And therefore it can never function wholly. So it behoves us, it is necessary if humanity is to survive completely as human beings, not as machines, one must find out for oneself whether it is possible to be totally free from this fear. Not only physical fears of losing a job, of getting hurt, of having pain which has been experienced last week, and carry on with that remembrance of that pain, and therefore hoping that pain will not occur and fear involved in it. There is biological fear and deep psychologically-rooted fears. You are looking at yourself, not at the speaker. The speaker is not important. What is important is to look at the content of our consciousness with its fear. We are not talking about the various forms of fear, fear of old age, fear of death, fear of loneliness, fear of anxiety, fear which breeds hate, fear of not arriving, not achieving, not fulfilling, not reaching Nirvana, or whatever you want to reach spiritually. We are not talking about the objects of fear but fear itself. Right? See the difference? We are afraid about something, or fear of something. Fear of yesterday or fear of tomorrow. Which is fear of time. Right? I am going to go into that a little bit. | 另一个问题就是恐惧。 恐惧同样是 所有人共同的立足点。 不论你住的是陋室， 还是王宫； 不论你是没有工作， 还是工作很多； 不论你多么博学， 通晓世间一切学问； 也不论你是牧师， 还是 神的最高代言人， 不管是什么吧； 你都依然会有这种深植于 全人类心中的恐惧。 那是全人类共同的立足点。 这是确定无疑的。 这是一个绝对的、 无法改变的事实。 这无法否认，这是事实。 同样，头脑只要 陷入这个恐惧的模式， 其运作就是局限的。 对吗？ 于是，大脑 永远也不能完整地运作。 所以，对我们来说， 必须懂得： 人类要想完全作为人 而不是作为机器生存下去， 那么，你就必须亲自 弄清有没有可能 从恐惧中彻底解脱出来。 不只有外在的 对于失业的恐惧， 对于受伤的恐惧， 对上周经历的痛苦的恐惧， 记住那次痛苦， 进而希望不再有 那种痛苦， 不再有 随之而来的恐惧。 有生理上的恐惧， 也有心理上 深植内心的恐惧。 你们是在观察自己， 而不是讲者。 讲者并不重要。 重要的是观察 我们意识的内容 以及意识当中的恐惧。 我们谈的不是恐惧的 各种形式， 比如，对衰老的恐惧， 对死亡的恐惧， 对孤独的恐惧， 对焦虑的恐惧， 恐惧会滋生仇恨， 害怕不能达成目标， 害怕不能成功， 害怕不能得到满足， 害怕不能涅槃， 或者不能达到你的精神 追求，不管那是什么追求。 我们谈的不是恐惧对象， 而是恐惧本身。 对吗？ 看到区别了吗？ 我们对什么感到害怕。 害怕昨天或者 害怕明天。 也就是害怕时间。 对吗？ 我想稍微谈谈这个问题。 |
| So, we are talking about fear itself, not the expressions of fear, clear? What is fear? When there is fear... no, let me put it differently: when there is fear, at that very moment is there a recognition as fear? Do you understand my question? There is fear in me – suppose. Is that fear describable at the moment it is taking place, the reaction, or after? The after is time. I wonder if you see this. Right? Are we meeting together in this? I am afraid – suppose I am afraid. Either I am afraid about something or I am afraid of something that I have done in the past which I don't want you to realise, or know, or something has happened in the past which again awakens that fear. Or is there a fear by itself without the object? And when there is fear, at the second, do I call it fear? Or only after it has come? You understand all this? It is surely after it has happened. Right? Which means what? The memory of other incidents of fear has been held in the brain, and the moment that reaction which takes place, the memory says, that is fear. Right? Are we together in this? I will explain again. God, how we depend on explanations. How terrible. | 所以，我们谈的是恐惧 本身， 不是恐惧的表现， 清楚了吗？ 恐惧是什么？ 当存在恐惧的时候 不，我换个说法吧： 当存在恐惧的时候， 就在那个时刻， 有对恐惧的识别活动吗？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 假设我心里有恐惧。 在那个反应 发生的时候， 那个恐惧可以描述吗？ 还是随后才描述的？ 随后的描述就是时间。 不知你们看到这点了没有。 对吗？ 对此我们沟通上了吗？ 我害怕 ——假设我害怕。 我要么是害怕某件事情， 要么是害怕我过去 做过的什么事情， 因为我不想让你知道， 要么是害怕 过去发生的事情 会再次唤起那种恐惧。 或者，有没有一种没有对象的 恐惧,它自身就是恐惧？ 在恐惧出现的那一刻， 我会把它叫做恐惧吗？ 还是说，在恐惧 发生之后我才去命名？ 这些你们明白吗？ 毫无疑问， 是在恐惧发生之后。 对吗？ 这说明什么？ 大脑储存了对于其它 恐惧事件的记忆， 在恐惧反应发生的那一刻， 那个记忆说，那是恐惧。 对吗？ 我们是在一起探讨着吗？ 我再解释一下。 天哪！ 我们这么依赖解释！ 太糟糕了。 |
| I recognise, with the immediacy of that feeling, you don't call it fear. It is only after it has happened, I name it as fear. The naming of it as fear is the remembrance of other incidents that have arisen which have caused fear. I remember those fears of the past, and the new feeling arises and I immediately identify it with the word 'fear', right? That is simple enough. So there is always the memory operating on the present. | 我认识到， 对于那个即刻反应， 你不会称之为恐惧。 只有在恐惧发生之后， 我才会将它命名为恐惧。 将它命名为恐惧的过程 就是回忆起其它发生过的 并造成恐惧的事件。 我想起了过去的恐惧， 于是当出现新的反应时， 我立即把它识别为 “恐惧”这个词，对吗？ 这非常简单。 因此记忆总在 对现在进行操控。 |
| So we are enquiring: what is fear? Is fear time? Fear of that something which happened a week ago which has caused that feeling which I have named as fear and the future implications that it must not happen again, and it might happen therefore I am afraid of it, so I am asking myself and you are asking yourself: is it time that is the root of fear? Right? Are you getting bored with all this? No. I hope not. | 那么，我们要询问： 什么是恐惧？ 恐惧是时间吗？ 对上周某件事情的恐惧 导致了那种 我命名为恐惧的感觉， 并且我希望将来 这种事不能再发生了， 而这种事或许还会发生， 所以我就感到害怕。 因此我问自己， 你也问自己： 恐惧的根源是时间吗？ 对吗？ 你们对这些感到厌倦了吗？ 没有。我希望没有。 |
| So what is time? You understand this? Time by the watch is very simple. There is sunrise at a certain time, sun sets at a certain time. And yesterday, today, tomorrow. That is a natural sequence of time. There is also psychological time in us. That is, the incident which happened last week which has given pleasure or which has awakened the sense of fear and the remembrance of that, projecting not only in the present being modified, but the future. I may not have a job, I may lose my position, I may lose my money, I may lose my wife – time. So is fear part of time? It looks like it. Right? And what is psychological time? There is time by the clock, obviously. If one has to catch a train, it is fixed, there is time. To go from here to there requires time, and so on. Time implies space. Right? Not only physical time which needs space, there is also psychological time which needs space: yesterday, last week, modified today, tomorrow, there is space and time. Right? That is simple. So, is fear the movement of time? And is not the movement of time psychologically the movement of thought? You are following all this? Please, this is very good education for each one of us. | 那么什么是时间？ 这个你理解吗？ 钟表的时间非常简单。 太阳在某个时间升起， 某个时间落下， 昨天、今天和明天。 那是自然的时间顺序。 在我们心里还有 心理时间。 就是说， 上周发生的那件事 让我感到快乐 或激起了我的恐惧感， 我回想起这件事， 不仅投射出经过调整的 现在，还投射出将来。 我也许会失业， 我也许会丢掉职位， 我可能会损失钱财， 我可能会失去妻子——时间。 那么，恐惧是 时间的一部分吗？ 看起来是这样的。 对吗？ 什么是心理时间？ 显然，有时钟指示的时间。 你要是需要赶火车，时间就是 确定的，有时间存在。 从这到那需要时间，等等。 时间意味着空间。 对吗？ 不仅物理时间需要空间， 还有心理时间， 也需要空间： 昨天、上周、 调整过的今天、明天。 存在着空间和时间， 对吗？ 这很简单。 那么，恐惧是 时间的运动吗？ 而时间的运动， 从心理上讲， 不就是思想的运动吗？ 这些你们清楚吗？ 请注意，这种探询对于我们 每个人都是非常好的训练。 |
| So, thought is time, time is fear. Obviously. I have had pain sitting with a dentist, I remember, stored, projected, hope not to have that pain again – thought is moving. Which is, time of yesterday's pain, held, and not wanting it again. So, fear is a movement in space and time which is thought. Right? If one sees that not as an idea but actuality, which means one has to pay attention to that pain, that fear which happened last week, to give to that fear complete attention at the moment it arises then it is not registered. Do this and you will find out for yourself. When you give complete attention to an insult, there is no insult. Or if somebody comes along and says, 'What a marvellous person you are!' And if you pay attention it is like water on a duck's back. Right? So please see the truth of this for yourself, that when you realise time, space, thought, is the movement of fear. That is a fact, not described by the speaker, but if you have observed it in yourself that is an absolute fact, you can't escape from it, you can't escape from it. You can't escape from fact, it is always there. You might try to avoid it, you might try to suppress it, do every kind of... but it is always there. Right? And if you give complete attention to the fact, the fact is not – psychologically. You understand? | 所以，思想就是时间， 而时间就是恐惧， 显然如此。 我在牙医那里 体验过疼痛， 我记忆，存储，投射， 希望不再遭受那种疼痛 ——思想在活动。 也就是，昨天的疼痛， 我抓着这个时间，不想让它重演。 因此，恐惧是 空间和时间中的运动， 这种运动就是思想。 对吗？ 如果你不是作为想法， 而是真正看到了那一点， 这意味着你必须注意 上周的那次疼痛、 那次恐惧， 在那恐惧升起的一刹那， 予以完全的注意， 那么你就不会记录这件事。 这样去注意一下， 你自己就会弄明白了。 当你受到侮辱时， 如果你全神贯注， 那么就没有侮辱。 或者，有人过来说 “你多了不起啊！ ” 如果你注意去听，那句话 就会像鸭背上的水珠一样滑落。 对吗？ 所以，请亲自 看看这里面的真相， 当你认识到 时间、空间、思想 都是恐惧的运动， 这是事实， 而不是讲者 描述的什么东西。 如果你亲自观察一下， 就会看到 那是个绝对的事实， 你无法回避它， 你无法躲开它。 你躲不开事实， 它总在那里。 你也许会 试图避开它、压制它， 想方设法…… 但是它始终在那里。 对吗？ 如果你全神贯注于事实， 那么这个事实就不存在了 ——在心理上。 你理解吗？ |
| So, the content of our consciousness is the movement of thought, time and space. Whether that space is very limited, or wide, extensive, it is still a movement of time, space, thought. As we pointed out together, pleasure. It is behind the other mountain. I hope you have observed something: the extraordinary mechanical power of that instrument, the tremendous power. And thought has created it. Thought has created different forms of power in ourselves, but they are all limited. And when there is freedom from this limitation, there is an astonishing sense of power, not mechanical power, a tremendous sense of energy, much more than that. It has nothing to do with thought, and therefore that power, that energy cannot be misused. But if thought says, I will use it, then that power, that energy is dissipated. Right? | 所以，我们的意识内容 就是思想、 时间、空间的运动。 不管那个空间 是非常有限，还是非常广阔， 它依然是时间、 空间、思想的运动。 正如我们 所共同指出的，快乐。 跑到别的山后去了。 我希望你们 注意到了一些事情： 那种机器有着 非凡的机械力量， 力量惊人。 这种力量是思想创造的。 思想给我们的内心 带来了各种形式的力量， 但都是局限的。 摆脱了这种束缚之后， 就会生出 令人震惊的力量感， 不是机械的力量， 而是一种惊人的能量感， 这比那种能量强大得多。 它和思想没有任何关系， 因而那种力量，那种能量 是不可能被滥用的。 但是如果思想说， 我要用一用， 那么那种力量、 那种能量就会消失。 对吗？ |
| We have got five minutes more left. We must also discuss, talk over together the other factor which exists in our consciousness, which is sorrow, grief, pain, and the wound, the hurts, that exist in most human beings from childhood. The hurt, from that hurt, psychological hurt, the pain of it, the remembrance of it, the holding on to it, and the grief that arises from it, and also there is sorrow involved in it, and also there is the global sorrow of mankind which has faced thousands and thousands of wars, millions and millions of people have cried. And this war machine is still going on, directed by the politicians, by our nationalism, by our feeling that we are separate from the rest, we and they, you and me. And that is the global sorrow which the politicians are building, building, building. And we are ready for another war, I hope there won't be, but when you are preparing for something there must be some kind of explosion somewhere. It may not be in the Middle East, it may happen here, as long as you are preparing for something you are going to get it, like preparing food. But we are so – if I may use the word without disrespect – we are so stupid to allow all this to go on – terrorism, etc. | 我们还有五分钟。 我们还必须 共同讨论一下 存在于我们意识中的 另外一个因素， 也就是悲伤、痛苦， 以及从童年起， 大部分人身上就存在的 创伤。 我们受到伤害， 那种伤害又造成 心理伤害， 伤害的痛苦， 对伤害的记忆， 把它长时间保留在记忆中， 以及由此产生的痛苦， 还有， 其中也牵涉到悲伤。 还存在着 全世界人类的悲伤， 人类遭遇过 成千上万次的战争， 无数人为此痛哭流涕。 战争机器仍然滚滚向前， 在政治家的操纵下， 在我们的国家主义的煽动下， 在我们这种自己和 别人没有关系，这种 我们和他们， 你和我的分别感的支持下。 这就是政治家们 所不断制造的 全世界的悲伤。 我们已经准备好了 要打另一场战争， 但愿不会， 但是如果你在做准备， 那么某些地区必然 会爆发某种冲突。 也许不是在中东， 也许是在这里， 只要你在为什么做准备 那件事就会发生， 这就跟准备饭食一样。 但是我们如此 ——请容许我用这个词， 没有不敬的意思—— 我们如此愚蠢， 竟然会容忍这些事情发生， 包括恐怖主义，等等。 |
| So, we are asking – perhaps we shall continue with it the day after tomorrow – we are asking whether this whole pattern of being hurt, lonely, pain, resistance, withdrawal, isolation, which causes further pain, grief, sorrow of my son's death, sorrow of losing something, losing some precious belief that I have held, the disillusionment that comes when I have followed somebody, one has given one's life, one's endeavour, struggled for somebody, surrendered oneself to something, and then get disillusioned and from that – pain, anxiety, uncertainty, sorrow. You have noticed all this. That is the pattern of our consciousness. When one asks, is it possible ever, ever to be free of all this? It is possible if we apply, not endlessly talk about it. If I realise that I am hurt from childhood psychologically, and see all the consequences of that hurt. The consequences are I resist, I withdraw, I don't want to be hurt anymore, I encourage isolation, and therefore I am building a wall round myself, and my wife also is hurt and she is doing the same thing. Right? I don't know if you realise all these things. So that is, the consequences of being hurt from childhood are pain, resistance, withdrawal, isolation, more and more, deeper and deeper fear. And the global sorrow of mankind, I don't know if you have ever even thought about it. How man, human being, has been tortured through wars, tortured under dictatorship, totalitarianism, tortured in different parts of the world. And also there is the sorrow of my brother, son, wife, running away, or dying, and the sorrow of separation, the sorrow that comes about when one is interested in something completely and the other is not. You follow? In this sorrow there is no compassion, there is no love. And the ending of sorrow brings love, not pleasure, not desire – love. And where there is love there is compassion. With compassion comes intelligence which has nothing whatever to do with the intelligence of thought. | 那么，我们要问， ——或许我们会在后天 接着谈这个—— 我们问的是， 整个这种受到伤害的模式， 感到孤独、痛苦、抗拒、 退缩、隔离 ——这会进一步 导致痛苦、悲伤， 为我儿子的死而悲伤， 为失去了什么而悲伤， 为丧失了曾经 视如瑰宝的信仰而悲伤， 还有这种追随某个人 而导致的幻灭—— 我们曾经用 自己的生命和努力 为某人奋斗过， 曾经臣服于什么东西， 后来，理想破灭， 由此造成了痛苦、 焦虑、不确定和伤悲。 这些你都注意过。 那是我们意识的模式。 如果你问，有没有可能 从这一切中解脱出来？ 如果我们用心， 而不是没完没了地空谈， 那么就有可能。 如果我认识到自己 从童年起就受到心理伤害， 并看到那些伤害的 一切后果。 后果就是 我会抗拒、退缩， 不想再受伤害。 我会促使自己与人隔绝， 于是给自己筑起围墙， 我妻子也受了伤害， 她也在修筑围墙。 对吗？ 不知你们认识 到这些事情没有。 就是说，从童年起 就受到伤害的后果 就是痛苦、抗拒、 退缩、隔离， 以及不断加深的恐惧。 这个全球人类的悲伤， 不知你们是否 思考过这个问题。 人类一直 遭受着战争的蹂躏， 被独裁和 专制统治折磨， 世界各地的人都 遭受着折磨。 也有这种 我的兄弟、儿子、妻子 将要逃走或者将要死掉的悲伤 和这种骨肉分离的悲伤， 如果你对某些事情 兴致盎然，而人家却不感兴趣， 这也会令你伤心。 你明白吗？ 在这种悲伤里是没有慈悲， 没有爱的。 结束了悲伤就会带来爱， 不是带来快乐、欲望， 而是爱。 有爱的地方就有慈悲。 智慧会随着慈悲降临， 它和思想的那种聪明 毫不相干。 |
| So one has to look very closely at ourselves as humanity, why we have borne all these things all our lives, why we have never ended it. Is it part of our indolence, part of our habit? And if you say, it is part of our habit, part of our conditioning, what am I to do about it, let's talk about it, how am I to uncondition myself – keep at it. That is what we are all doing. I can't find the answer, I will go to the guru next door, or further away, or the priest, or this or that. We never say, look, let me look at myself closely and see if I can break through it, like any habit. If you have a habit of smoking, it can be broken very easily, or drugs, alcohol. But you see, we say what does it matter. I am getting old anyhow, the body is destroying itself, so a little more pleasure, what does it matter? So we carry on. We don't feel utterly responsible for all the things we do. We either blame it on the environment, on society, on our parents, on the past heredity, it is genetic, some excuse but never applying. And if one really has the urge, the immediate urge, to find out why I am hurt, why one is hurt. One is hurt because one has built an image about oneself. That is a fact. When you say, I am hurt, it is the image that you have about yourself. Somebody comes along and puts his heavy boot on that image and you get hurt. You get hurt through comparison: I am this but somebody else is better. As long as one has an image about oneself you are going to get hurt. That is a fact. But if you pay attention to that fact, that as long as you have an image of any kind, somebody is going to put a pin into it. As long as I have an image about myself, because I address lots of people, a big audience, becoming stupidly famous in the world, and all that rot that goes on with reputation, and I want to maintain that, you are going to hurt it. Somebody has a bigger audience – you follow? So I get hurt. So as long as there is comparison... So if you give complete attention to the image that you have about yourself – attention, not concentration, give attention, then you will see the image has no meaning, it disappears. Right, we will stop. We will continue the day after tomorrow. | 所以，我们必须把自己当作人类， 并加以非常仔细的审视， 为什么我们要终生 忍受这些悲伤， 为什么我们从未 结束悲伤。 这是我们 怠惰表现的一部分吗？ 是我们习惯的一部分吗？ 如果你说， 这是我们习惯的一部分， 是我们的条件作用的一部分。 那么我该怎么办呢？ 我们来谈谈，我该怎样 使自己摆脱这种条件作用？ ——不断这样问。 我们现在做的 就是这种事。 我找不到答案， 我要去找隔壁的， 或者遥远的古鲁、牧师， 或者这样那样的人。 我们从来不说，听着， 让我来仔细审视自己， 看看能否像打破习惯 一样突破这种制约。 你要是有抽烟的习惯， 这个习惯很容易打破， 再比如吸毒、酗酒。 但是你看，我们说， 这有什么关系？ 无论如何，我已经老了， 身体自己在坏掉， 所以多找点乐子 有什么关系呢？ 于是我们一切照旧。 我们没有感觉到要对自己 所做的一切负完全的责任。 我们要么归咎于环境， 要么归咎于社会、父母， 要么归咎于过去的遗传， 这是遗传造成的， 找些借口， 却从不下功夫。 如果你真的有这种诉求， 有这种强烈渴望，想要马上 弄明白我为什么会受伤， 人为什么会受伤。 我们受伤是因为我们 建立了关于自身的形象。 这是事实。 你说，我受伤了， 受伤的其实是你为自己 塑造的那个形象。 有人走过来， 用他的靴子狠狠地践踏 那个形象，于是你就受伤了。 你是因为比较而受伤的， 我是这样的， 可是有人比我强。 只要你怀有自身的形象， 你就会受伤。 这是事实， 但是，如果 你注意这个事实， 就是，只要你有关于 自己的任何形象， 必然会有人用针去刺它。 只要我有一个自己的形象， 我因为对大批听众讲话， 愚蠢地世界闻名起来， 并且伴随着这种声誉 还有很多荒唐事， 我想要维护这个声誉， 那么你就可以来伤害它。 有个人听众更多 ——你明白吗？ 于是我就受伤了。 所以，只要有慈悲 所以，如果你把 全部注意力放在这个 关于自己的形象上 ——注意而非专注—— 注意， 那么你就会看到 这个形象毫无意义， 它就会消失。 好，我们要结束了。 我们明天继续。 |
