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LO82T2 - 意识中的秩序
英国伦敦第二次公开讲话，1982年6月6日



0:22 Krishnamurti: May we continue with what we were talking about yesterday? We went some length into the question of fear. Whether it is possible at all to be totally and completely free of fear. We pointed out the nature and the structure of fear, the contributory causes of fear. And we said that fear cannot be suppressed or transmuted, or escape from it. It is to be observed, and to discern that the observer is the observed, the observer is not separate from fear. The observer, who is the past, with all the accumulated knowledge, he separates himself, and thereby either suppresses fear, escapes from it or tries to transcend it, go beyond it. All that implies conflict. And as we human beings have lived in conflict for thousands of years, we should consider together whether it is possible to entirely eliminate fear, conflict. And that is possible only when the observer realises he is not separate from that which he is observing, psychologically. Then that division between the observer and the observed disappears entirely. This is not just an idea, a cunning activity of thought. Observation has nothing to do with thought. To observe the whole movement of fear, the complexity of it, not come to it with any kind of motive or try to go beyond it, but just to observe it. And it is very important, it seems, that one has to learn – if we can use that word, and learning is not a matter of time here – to observe without the accumulated remembrances of the past. That requires a great deal of awareness to be aware of the whole contributory causes of fear and the consequences of fear. And observe it as it grows, as it moves. And when there is no conflict, which can only take place when the observer realises that which he is observing is himself, that the observer is the observed, then all energy, which we have been dissipating in conflict, in trying to surmount it, go beyond it, suppress it, totally disappears. Therefore when there is the observer which is the observed, then there is the energy which is not dissipated, which then dissolves fear entirely. This is what we were talking about yesterday. 克：我们可以继续昨天我们讨论的话题吗？ 我们讨论了恐惧的问题。 是否有可能， 完全的，彻底的摆脱恐惧。 我们指出了恐惧的本质和结构， 恐惧的原因。 我们说恐惧不能被压制， 转化，或者逃避。 恐惧需要被观察， 并且发现观察者就是被观察之物， 观察者和恐惧不是分开的。 观察者，也就是过去， 带着所有他积累的知识， 他把自身（与恐惧）分离开， 因而压制恐惧， 逃避恐惧，或者尝试去转化它， 超越它。 这一切都意味着冲突。 我们人类已经在冲突中生活了几千年， 我们应该共同思考， 是否有可能彻底的消除恐惧，冲突， 这只有在 观察者认识到在心理层面， 他不是和他所观察的事物 分开的时，才有可能。 然后观察者和被观察之物之间的分裂 才会彻底消失。 这不是一个观念， 不是思想的狡猾的活动。 观察和思想无关。 观察恐惧的全部活动， 其中的复杂性， 不带着任何动机地接近这个问题， 或者尝试超越这一切， 只是观察。 这是非常重要的， 一个人要学会——如果我们能用这个词， 这里的学会与时间无官—— 观察同时不带着过去积累的记忆。 这需要强烈的关注， 对恐惧的整个成因 以及后果的关注。 当它成长，活动的时候，观察他。 当冲突不存在时， 这只有当观察者认识到 他观察的事物其实就是他自身， 也就是观察者就是被观之物时， 所有的能量， 在冲突中， 尝试克服，超越，压制恐惧的努力中耗散的能量， 所有（耗散能量的行为）都消失了。 因此当观察者就是被观之物时， 所有能量都不再被耗散， 这些能量就能彻底消除恐惧。 这就是我们昨天讨论的内容。
5:13 One listens to a lot of these ideas and draws a conclusion, an abstraction of what one has heard, and that abstraction becomes a principle, an ideal, a thing to be achieved. Whereas if one listens without the abstraction taking place, just listens to the whole psychological movement of fear, not make an idea of it, but actually observe it as one observes a marvellous mountain – you can't do anything about it, it is there. Similarly to observe this whole nature of fear. And in that observation there is no dissipation of energy. And hence, the totality of that energy wipes fear away entirely. 一个人听到了许多的观点， 然后得出一个结论， 对他听到的东西进行抽象， 这个抽象的概念，变成了原则，一个理想性的东西， 一个需要达成的目标。 然而如果一个人聆听，同时不进行抽象的概括， 只是聆听恐惧的心理活动， 不构建一个观点， 只是真实的观察它， 就像一个人观察一座壮观的山峰， 你不能对它做任何事，它就在那。 同样的，你看着恐惧的整个本质。 在那种观察中，没有能量的耗散。 因此，那全部的能量 就彻底清除了恐惧。
6:43 Either we hear all this, make an abstraction as an idea, and pursue the idea, or without abstraction observe one's own fear, because most of us have all kinds of fears. We may have no fear at the moment sitting here in a rather hot hall but there is this fear, hidden or obvious. And where there is fear there is all kinds of neurotic activity. Is one aware of the whole root of fear, the conscious as well as the hidden fears deeply in the recesses of one's own psyche? Or we just listen to these words totally unrelated to actual fear that one has? Or you listen very carefully, discover for oneself whether it is false or true? And that very denial of the false, in which a great deal of energy is wasted, then you have that accumulated energy to dissipate fear. 或者我们听到所有这些，然后抽象出一些概念， 再追逐这个概念， 或者完全没有抽象的过程地，观察一个人自身的恐惧， 因为我们绝大多数人都有各种各样的恐惧。 现在这一刻，也许我们没有恐惧， 坐在这样一个有些热的大厅里， 但是，存在无论是隐藏的还是明显的恐惧。 只要有恐惧，就有各种神经质的行为。 一个人能清楚恐惧的全部根源吗？ 意识层面的，以及隐藏的恐惧， 在一个人自我心理深处隐藏的恐惧。 或者我们听到这些话， 但是对真正的恐惧却无动于衷？ 或者我们听的很认真， 然后自己去发现这一切是真实的还是虚假的？ 对虚假的否定， 虚假之中存在巨大的能量的浪费， 然后你就能保存下能量，来驱散恐惧。
8:37 We said too yesterday that we would talk about pleasure: pleasure in various forms, pleasure of possessions, pleasure in becoming something pleasure in all the sensory responses. But to understand the nature of pleasure one must go into the nature and understand what is love. Because when one loves, if that is possible at all, pleasure has quite a different meaning. It may not be necessary at all. So we ought to, together, as we said yesterday in our conversation with each other, go into this very complex problem of what is love. And please, this is not a sermon. 我们昨天也讨论了快感， 快感有各种各样的形式，占有的快感， 成为什么的快感， 各种感官反应的快感。 但是去理解快感的本质， 一个人必须深入的理解爱的本质，什么是爱？ 因为当一个爱的时候，如果可能的话， 快感会有完全不同的意义， 也许（快感）完全不必要。 所以，我们一起， 就像我们昨天说的那样，彼此交流， 一起来探究这个非常复杂的问题， 什么是爱？ 请注意，我不是在讲道。
10:14 We have spoiled that word. We use it in so many ways: love of climbing a mountain, sexual love, love of achievement, love of power, position, status, love of something that gives you personal enjoyment, and so on. What is the difference between the thought that has created the pleasure of love and love itself? What is the nature of love which is not desire – which we talked about briefly yesterday – and love that is not pleasure, love that is not a recollection of past incidents. So one asks, is love desire? Is love pleasure? Which is the remembrance of some happy events, sensory or psychological happenings. Is the remembrance of past events, the pleasure that one derives from those events, and the cultivation of desire, is all that love? 我们滥用了（爱）这个词。 我们会在各种场合使用这个词： 爱爬山， 性爱， 爱成就， 爱权力、地位、身份， 爱某件给你带来个人享受的事物，等等。 创造爱的快感的思想 和爱本身， 到底有什么不同？ 不是欲望的爱的本质是怎样的？ ——我们昨天简单讨论过这个话题—— 不是快感的爱， 不是对过去意外的积累的爱。 所以一个人会问，爱是欲望吗？ 爱是快感吗？ 爱是对过去发生的快乐的事情， 心理上或者感官上发生的事，的记忆吗？ 对过去事件的记忆， 从这些事件中又产生了快感， 培养了欲望， 这就是爱吗？
12:43 How is one going to find out? Because it seems to us in our conversation together without this quality, what one calls love, and the perfume of it, the reality of it, not the verbal description of it, the actuality of that state of mind, one has to really understand deeply that desire, pleasure and remembrance have no place at all where love is concerned. Is that at all possible? 一个人要如何探究这一切？ 因为似乎我们心中，， 并没有这种品质， 我们称之为爱的品质， 爱的芳香， 真正的爱， 不是语言的描述， 那种真正的头脑的状态， 一个人必须真正的，深刻的理解， 欲望，快感，记忆， 在爱中并没有一席之地。 这可能吗？
13:51 In enquiring together into this matter one must also go into the question that the brain records every incident. It is a recording machine like a computer, so it is mechanical. And being mechanical, it is constantly repetitive. And our conditioning is to repeat a pleasure, either it be sexual or other forms of pleasure. Can the brain register what is absolutely necessary and not register any form of psychological events? Please, this is a very serious question, because all our conditioning, the content of our consciousness, is the mechanical process of the brain which records. And so one's life becomes mechanical. In that mechanical field, one may invent, but it is still born out of knowledge and knowledge is always incomplete, about anything. So, thought is born of knowledge, and so thought is always incomplete. Knowledge always lives within the shadow of ignorance. So we are always functioning within the field of knowledge, which is our conditioning. 在一起探究这个问题的过程中， 一个人必须深度了解这个问题， 那就是头脑记录了所有的事件。 它就像一台电脑，一台记录的机器， 因此是机械化的。 因为变得机械化， 它不停的重复。 我们的制约就是不停的重复快感， 不论是性的快感，还是其他形式的快感。 头脑可以只记录绝对必须的事物， 但是不记录任何形式的心理的事件吗？ 请注意，这是一个非常严肃的问题， 因为我们所有的制约， 我们意识的内容， 都是不断记录的头脑的机械化的过程。 因此我们的生活是机械化的。 在这种机械化的生活中，一个人可能进行发明创造， 但这依然来源于知识， 知识总是不完整的， 不管是什么知识。 因此，思想来源于知识， 所以思想永远是不完整的。 知识永远存在于无知的阴影之中。 我们总是在知识的领域活动， 这就是我们的制约。
16:27 Please, if one may point out, and one hesitates to point out, please don't just listen to all this as words, as ideas, but enquire with the speaker into the nature of one's repetitive mechanical mind, neither accepting or denying it, but closely, tentatively observing it. Observing your own quality of brain, how terribly conditioned it is, as the British, as the French and so on, and also conditioned by the religious concepts, conditioned by the climate and so on, by tradition. And when one is enquiring into a very deep subject like love, it behoves us not to come to it with our conditioning. So can we bring order in the confused, messy consciousness? Can there be order in this disorder: of our whole way of life, our society, our culture, the language which we use, our reactions, so contradictory, and observe our consciousness with its content? Because when one observes it, there is such deep contradiction in it: wanting peace, to live a happy life, creative life, and yet doing everything opposite to that. So our consciousness is in perpetual conflict, and rather messy. 请注意，如果一个人可以指出这一点， 他犹豫要不要指出来， 请不要只是听到词语，并将之作为观点， 而是和演讲者一起探究， 探究人们重复性的、机械化的意识的本质， 既不接受也不拒绝它， 只是密切的，实验性的关注它。 观察你自己头脑的品质， 它如何深受制约， 作为一个英国人，法国人，等等而深受制约， 被宗教的概念制约， 被气候，传统， 等等制约。 当一个人探究例如爱这样深刻的话题时， 他必须不带制约的探究这些话题。 所以我们能 在困惑、混乱的意识中带来秩序吗？ 失序中可能产生秩序吗？ 在我们的整个生活方式， 我们的社会， 文化， 我们使用的语言， 我们的如此矛盾的反应中（产生秩序）， 同时去观察我们的意识和他的内容，（这可能吗）？ 因为当一个人观察这一切的时候， 他会看到存在如此深刻的冲突， 渴望和平， 快乐，富有创造力的生活， 同时又在做一切相反的事。 所以我们的意识处于不断的冲突之中， 十分混乱。
19:22 And is it possible to bring about order? Because order is supreme virtue. Order is totally unrelated to disorder. Having a disordered brain, consciousness, seeking order from that disorder is still disorder. Right? Are we meeting each other, I hope. If I am confused, disorderly and messy, and I try to find order out of this confusion, that order is still disorder. Order exists only when there is total ending of disorder. That is, disorder expresses itself in conflict, in contradiction, saying one thing and doing another, thinking one thing and act totally differently. We are such – if one may use without creating irritation – we are such hypocrites. And out of this disorder, we try to find order. So can disorder end, because when there is an ending to total disorder, there is supreme order. So one has to enquire into what is disorder, how it arises. 这其中可能产生秩序吗？ 因为秩序是最高的美德。 秩序和失序完全无关。 拥有失序的头脑和意识， 却在失序中寻找秩序， 这仍然是失序。 是这样吗？我希望我们能理解彼此。 如果我很困惑，失序并且混乱， 我尝试去在困惑中发现秩序， 这样的秩序仍然是失序。 秩序只有在失序彻底终结时才存在。 失序的表现就是冲突， 矛盾， 说一件事却做另一件事， 想一件事，却做完全不同的事。 我们是如此 ——如果我用这个词，不会激怒大家的话—— 我们是如此的虚伪。 在失序之中，我们尝试寻找秩序。 所以，可以终结失序吗， 因为当失序彻底结束时， 就存在最高的秩序。 所以一个人要探索什么是失序，失序是如何产生的？
21:48 I hope you are all interested in all this. Since you are here, probably you are slightly interested in all this, not too deeply, probably it is such a lovely morning you would like to go out and play golf. But since you are here, sitting in a hot place, uncomfortable and so on, please do consider seriously all that the speaker is saying, don't brush it off. Because the world is in complete disorder, the world is in a state of insanity: talking about peace and killing each other, talking about peace and selling armaments. All that is going on, which we talked about briefly yesterday. It is a very serious matter, not an entertainment, and our minds are used to entertainments. So please give your serious attention to all this, if you will. 我希望你们对这一切感兴趣。 既然你们坐在这里了， 也许你们只有一点点兴趣， 不是很深， 也许在这样一个可爱的早晨， 你更想出去玩或者打高尔夫球。 但是既然你坐在这， 坐在这样一个炎热，不舒服的地方， 请认真的思考下演讲者所说的东西， 不要一扫而过。 因为这个世界正处于彻底的失序中， 正处于一种不理智的状态： 一边谈论和平，一边在互相杀戮； 一边谈论和平，一边在售卖武器。 这一切都在发生着， 这些我们昨天都简单的讨论过。 这是非常严肃的事， 不是一种娱乐， 然而我们的头脑已经习惯于娱乐。 所以请你严肃的关注这一切， 如果你愿意。
23:35 What is disorder? Because where there is disorder, there can be no love, where there is fear there is no love, where there is the mere search for the continuity of pleasure, love cannot possibly exist. So one has to enquire – if you are at all serious and very, very honest – what is the nature of disorder, why we live in such disorder. 那什么是失序？ 因为哪里存在失序，哪里就没有爱， 哪里存在恐惧，哪里就没有爱， 哪里只有对快感的不断延续的渴望， 哪里就没有爱。 所以一个人要去探究 ——如果你真的很严肃的话—— 失序的本质是什么？ 为什么我们生活在巨大的失序之中？
24:30 Is not disorder a contradiction? Is not disorder that which expresses itself in conflict, psychologically, inwardly or outwardly? Is not disorder the pursuit of an ideal, when one is confronted with the actual? Is there not disorder when the future is more enticing than the present? – and so on. So, disorder essentially is a contradiction. That is, as we went into it yesterday, human beings are violent, that is a fact, that is a reality. At the least possible challenge or hurt or considered honour, we are willing to kill another. We have had two terrible wars and we are still pursuing wars, and we are still talking about peace, that is a contradiction, utter dishonesty. And where there is conflict in relationship with each other: man, woman, with neighbour, or a neighbour who is thousands of miles away, where there is conflict in our relationship, there must be disorder. To perceive that instantly, not rationalise it, discuss it, be clever about it, but to see the truth of it, immediately, that there is only the fact, which is, we are violent, and not try to become non-violent. While you are trying to become non-violent, you are being violent. Whereas, if we face the fact that we are violent, inherited through various centuries, and inherited from the animal and so on, so on. 失序不是一种冲突吗？ 失序不会表现成一种冲突吗？ 不管是内在的还是外在的冲突。 当一个人面对事实时， 却去追逐一个观念，这不是失序吗？ 当未来比现在更诱人时， 这不是失序吗？ 等等等等。 所以，失序本质上就是冲突。 这些我们昨天也讲过， 人类是暴力的， 这是个事实，是个真相。 至少当可能被挑战， 被伤害，或者当被视为一种荣誉时，我们愿意去杀害他人。 我们经历了两场可怕的战争，我们仍然在追求战争， 同时我们又在讨论和平， 这就是矛盾， 彻底的不诚实。 只要关系中存在冲突，和其他人， 男人，女人，和邻居， 不管是身边的邻居还是千里之外的邻居的关系， 只要关系中存在冲突， 就存在失序。 立刻洞察到这一点， 不是合理化它，讨论它，弄清楚它， 而是立刻的， 看到其中的真相， 只存在一个事实，就是我们是暴力的， 不是尝试去变的不暴力。 当你尝试变得不暴力的过程中， 你依然是暴力的。 然而，如果我们直面我们是暴力的这个事实， 通过数个世纪继承的暴力， 从动物身上继承的暴力，等等。
27:57 You know, to see the false, see our illusions, and move away from the false, then that which is, is truth. But we have so many illusions, and these are the contributory factors of our disorder. To be aware of this whole movement of disorder, not to say I must dissolve them in order to have order, but to observe it very closely, with all your energy, then that state of disorder in oneself disappears entirely. That is to put one's house in order. There is order then, and there is no contradiction. You mean what you say, exactly. There is no double talk. That means one has to be a light to oneself, not follow anybody. In the realm of the spirit there is no authority, no intermediary between you and that reality, that truth. But we have allowed ourselves to have intermediaries, leaders and so on. So if we understand this nature of disorder, then out of that comes, naturally, easily and sweetly, order, which is the highest form of virtue in our action, in our thinking and so on. 你知道，看到虚假之处， 看到我们的幻觉， 然后从虚假之中离开，这就是真实。 但是我们有太多的幻觉， 这也是我们失序的原因之一。 觉察失序的整个活动， 不要说为了获得秩序，我必须解决它， 而是去密切的关注它， 带着你全部的能量， 然后那种失序的状态自身就会彻底消失。 这就是”让一个人的房间有序起来“（ put one's house in order）。 有秩序，就不存在冲突。 你说什么就意味着什么，完全一致。 没有言行不一。 这意味着一个人要做自己的光， 而不去追随任何人。 精神领域不存在权威。 不存在你和真实、真相之间的 中介。 但是我们允许我们自身拥有中介， 领导者，等等。 如果一个人理解了失序的本质， 在那其中就会自然的，轻松的产生秩序， 秩序就是在我们的行动，思想，等等中的， 最高形式的道德。
30:35 And as we said, where there is disorder in ourselves and contradiction, love is not possible. I may tell my wife – if I have a wife or a girlfriend – I love you. But that is just a pleasurable expression. But love demands a great deal of enquiry. One cannot love another if you belong to any kind of group, nationality, religious adherents. There must be freedom, totally, to love. That very word freedom is the expression of love. The word itself means love: freedom. And without love there is no compassion, social service, doing good, being kind, tender, generous, has nothing to do with compassion, that is only part of sympathy, natural expression and so on. But compassion demands a great deal of intelligence. The intelligence of thought, which is cleverness, is not intelligence. That supreme intelligence exists only where there is compassion, love and order. 正如我们说过的， 只要我们自身有失序，有矛盾， 爱就是不可能的的。 我也许对我的妻子说——如果我有妻子或者女友的话—— 我爱你。 但是这只是令人愉悦的表达。 而爱需要深刻的探索。 只要一个人属于任何群体， 国家或者宗教的群体，他就不可能爱另一个人。 必须有彻底的自由，才能去爱。 自由这个词本身，就是爱的表达。 自由这个词本身就意味着爱。 没有爱，就没有慈悲， 社会服务，做一些好事， 性格温柔，做人慷慨，和慈悲没有任何关系， 这只是同情心的自然的表现而已。 但是慈悲需要巨大智慧。 思想的智慧，也就是聪明才智， 不是智慧。 至高的智慧只有在慈悲、爱和秩序 存在时才存在。
32:42 Then we can go to the next subject. There can be no love if there is jealousy, hatred. No sense of antagonism. How can you kill another if you really love, whether for your country, for your interest, for God or whatever it is, how can you kill another if you love? Please, this is all very serious, do consider all this because we are living in a world which is terribly dangerous, which has become dangerous, totally insecure, and without this quality of intelligence born of compassion and love, we cannot bring about a totally different social order. 然后我们就能进入下一个话题。 存在嫉妒，仇恨就不会有爱。 完全没有对抗感。 如果你真的有爱，如何能去杀死另一个人？ 不管是为了你的国家还是利益， 或者上帝或者其他任何事，如果你真的有爱，怎么能去杀死另一个人？ 请注意，这是非常严肃的话题， 请考虑一下这些话， 因为我们生活的世界是如此的危险， 并且正在变得更危险， 完全没有安全可言， 没有诞生于慈悲和爱的， 智慧的品质， 我们就不能创造出完全不同的社会秩序。
34:04 We all also should talk over whether sorrow can end, and what is the relationship between love and sorrow. Can there be love where there is suffering, both inwardly and outwardly? So we ought to talk over together whether it is possible to end suffering, this terrible burden that man has carried for millennia upon millennia. There is not only personal suffering, but the suffering of the world. Those who have been brought up without any clothes, food, or just one meal a day, living in degradation, poverty, and these terrible wars. How many people have shed tears. And apparently we don't seem to learn from all this, we are still carrying on like primitive people, barbarians killing each other. So we ought to consider what is the relationship between love and sorrow. If one loses one's brother, wife and children, and one is attached, and is attachment love? Where there is attachment there must be suffering. Attachment breeds fear, anxiety, pain, grief, sense of utter loss – and that breeds sorrow. Is it possible to love another without complete attachment, without any kind of attachment? 我们也应该讨论下 悲伤是否能终结， 以及悲伤和爱有怎样的关系。 存在痛苦时能有爱吗？ 包括内在和外在的痛苦。 所以我们也要一起讨论 是否有可能终结痛苦， 这个人类从数千年前就开始背负的， 巨大的负担。 不只有个人的痛苦， 还有世界性的痛苦。 有人的没有衣服、食物来养活他们， 或者一天只能吃一顿饭， 生活在堕落和贫困之中， 还有可怕的战争， 无数人泪流满面。 然而我们似乎没有从这一切中学到任何东西， 我们还是继续我们的生活，像原始人一样， 像野蛮人一样互相杀戮。 所以我们要考虑 爱和悲伤的关系是怎样的。 一个人失去了他的兄弟，妻子或者孩子， 他依恋他们， 依恋是爱吗？ 有依恋的地方就会有痛苦。 依恋产生恐惧，焦虑， 痛苦，悲伤， 一种彻底的失落感， ——这就会带来悲伤。 有可能完全没有任何依恋的 爱一个人吗？
37:29 And if we do not go into this matter deeply for ourselves, talking about love has very little meaning. Perhaps some of you have heard the speaker for the last 60 years or more, and we are still caught in the old tradition and the old habits of attachment and attempting to become detached, trying to struggle to be detached. Detachment leads to cynicism, cruelty, whereas if one understands the nature of attachment and goes into it deeply and sees the consequences of it then seeing that which is false, then the false drops away. One hasn't time to go more into this, because we have something more to talk over together, if you are not too tired. 如果我们不为我们自己 深入探究这些问题， 只是谈论“爱”并没有什么意义。 也许你们中的一些已经听演讲者演讲了 60年了，也许还更久， 但我们任何被困在旧有的传统和习惯中， 依恋，又尝试去反依恋， 努力挣扎着去反依恋。 反依恋只会导致愤世嫉俗和残忍， 然而如果一个人理解了依恋的本质， 深入的探究它，看到它的后果， 就能看到其中的虚假之物，这样虚假之物就会自己消失。 我们没有时间再讨论更多了， 因为我们还要一起讨论其他话题， 如果你还没累的话。
38:48 We ought talk over together a very complex problem, of what is death. Why human beings throughout the world – of whatever colour, whatever nationality, whatever race, whatever religion – are so scared of death, so frightened of it. Or you treat life as a jolly good experience, and you die, you say, I have had a jolly good life. But those who are really quite serious in their intent to find out the whole meaning of death must enquire not only into the fear, which we went into, but also what is death – the ending. What is ending? Why is one frightened so much if things end? I will lose my brother, he is dead, he is dying. And I am attached to him, I like him, companionship and all the rest of it, or my wife or my sister or my girlfriend. And I am afraid of losing, afraid of being utterly lonely, facing old age without any companionship. Or being young, the same pattern is repeated, if one thinks, looks at it at all. 我们还要一起讨论一个非常复杂的问题， 什么是死亡？ 为什么全世界的人类， 不管什么肤色，国籍， 种族，宗教， 都对死亡如此恐惧。 或者你把生命当成一段愉快的体验， 你死去，然后就说，我过了愉快的一生。 但是，对于那些真的严肃的人， 他们意图发现死亡的全部含义， 他们必须不仅探究恐惧， 我们已经聊过恐惧了， 也要去探究什么是死亡，也就是终结。 什么是终结？ 为什么我们如此惧怕一件事物结束？ 我可能失去我的兄弟， 他死了， 而我依恋他，我喜欢他， 想要他陪伴，等等， 或者我的妻子，姐妹，女朋友。 我害怕失去， 害怕变的彻底孤独， 没有任何陪伴的面对衰老， 年轻人也是一样的模式， 如果一个人思考，观察这一切。
41:09 So what is death, what is the meaning of death, which means the ending, the ending of everything: ending of your possessions, ending of all your remembrances, ending all your attachments, ending of all the pleasurable or unhappy habits. So we ought to enquire, not into what is death, but rather into what is the ending of the known. Because our minds, our brain, has always functioned within the known. And when it is challenged, which is the ending of the known, which is death, it is scared, it is frightened, it shrivels up. 那么死亡是什么？死亡意味着什么？ 死亡就是终结，终结所有事物， 终结你的占有物， 你的记忆， 你的依恋， 终结你所有快乐或痛苦的习惯。 所以我们不是要去探究死亡是什么， 而是探究“终结已知”意味着什么。 因为我们的头脑，意识， 总是在已知中活动。 当这种模式被挑战， 也就是已知被终结时， 也就是死亡， 他会就很恐惧，他吓坏了，萎缩了。
42:36 So is it possible to end while living, not commit suicide, I am not talking about that, the ending. Say, for example, the ending of attachment, attachment to one's work, to one's name, to one's family, to one's ideas and beliefs and doctrines, the ending of one's god, if one has God. The total denial – which is the essence of death – of all the known. That is death. So while living with all our energy, clarity, the ending of the known is death, so can we live with death all the time? I wonder if you understand what I am talking about. 所以有可能在活着的时候就终结这一切吗？ 不是自杀，我不是在说这个， 是终结。 例如，终结依恋， 对工作，名字，家庭的依恋， 对一个人的观点，信仰，教条的依恋， 终结一个人（信仰）的神，如果一个人有神的话。 彻底的否定所有的已知， ——这就是死亡的本质。 这就是死亡， 所以我们可以活着的时候，带着我们全部的能量，清晰感， 终结所有的已知，也就是死亡吗， 我们能在每一个瞬间既生又死吗？ 我不知道你们是否明白我在说什么。
44:01 I am living, plenty of vitality, energy, drive, clear, but I am attached to something. I am attached to my reputation, sitting here and talking to you. I am attached to that – if I am, I am not, but suppose I am. To end that attachment of addressing large audiences right over the world to completely, totally, without any effort, to end that sense of dependence, because that is death. So while living, to live with this constant ending of accumulation, constant ending of every record. That requires a great deal of attention, awareness, energy. When once you perceive that, then it becomes like a river full of water that is flowing. 我活着，充满活力，能量，冲劲，非常聪明， 但是我依恋某事。 我依恋我的名声，可以坐在这里对你们演讲。 我依恋这些——当然我不依恋，只是假设我依恋—— 终结这种依恋， 依恋对着世界各地的大量听众演讲， 完全的、彻底的结束它， 没有任何努力地结束这种依赖， 因为这就是死亡。 所以当我活着时， 就不断地终结那些积累起来的事物， 终结所有记录。 这需要巨大的关注，觉察和能量。 当一个人一旦觉察到这一切， 它就变成了一条充满了水的河流，不断流动。
45:33 I don't know what time it is. 现在几点了？
45:43 Also we should discuss, talk over together, if you are not too tired, into the question of religion, meditation, and if there is anything sacred. The speaker puts meditation and religion at the end of the talk, because if you talk about religion and meditation and so on at the beginning, a mind that is confused, disorderly, cannot possibly meditate – it has no meaning. It may practice all kinds of silly theories. Please don't be offended by what the speaker is saying. 我们也要一起讨论， 如果你们还没累的话， 宗教的问题， 冥想， 以及是否存在神圣的事物。 演讲者把冥想和宗教 放到演讲的最后， 因为如果你最开始就讨论宗教和冥想， 一个困惑的，失序的意识， 根本不可能冥想——那毫无意义。 他也许会练习各种愚蠢的理论。 请不要觉得演讲者所说的是一种冒犯。
46:51 So, we should consider what is a religious mind. Religions throughout the world have played an extraordinary part in one's life, seriously or superficially. It has become an entertainment. All the words and the symbols and the processions and all the things that go on in the name of religion are put together by thought. And thought – as we talked about the other day, yesterday and previously – is not sacred at all, it is merely a material process born of knowledge, memory, stored in the brain. So, first to find out what is truly a religious mind, one must be free of all religious dogma, whether the Hindu, Buddhist, Christian or whatever it is, Muslim, Islamic world, entirely, totally, completely free of all that. Because that is part of our conditioning. We have been programmed for 2000 years as Christians, 3 to 5000 years as Hindus, Buddhists and so on. Because to find out for oneself what is a religious mind, there must be complete freedom from all orthodoxy, tradition, and all the amusements in this name of religion that goes on. Because in those ideas, in those concepts, in the symbols, saviours, we have found security for a complex, miserable, confusing life. That is our safety escape from this. But when we have put order in our lives here now, then there is no fear, and the mind that is absolutely without a shadow of fear psychologically, has that quality of a religious mind. And beliefs, whether Christian belief or Buddhist, or Hindu, or the belief of the Muslim, why should we have beliefs at all? Belief in God – God is the invention of thought, because God is the ultimate security. And in the name of God we have done terrible things, burnt people, tortured people. So one has to be free entirely of all belief and faith and dogma. 因此，我们要考虑什么是宗教之心？ 在全世界， 宗教都在人一生中扮演了极其重要的角色， 不管是严肃的，还是表面的。 它已经变成了一种娱乐。 所有的词语，符号， 游行， 还有其他所有以宗教之名进行的事， 都是思想创造的。 思想——我们昨天和前几天 说过—— 没有任何神圣之处， 它（思想）只是一个物质过程， 源于头脑里储存 的知识和记忆。 所以，去发现什么是真正的宗教之心， 一个人必须首先抛弃一切宗教的教条， 不管是印度教，佛教， 基督教或伊斯兰教，穆斯林世界，等等的教条， 完全的，彻底的，抛弃这一切。 因为这些都是我们的制约的一部分。 我们已经被制约做了2000年的基督徒， 3000到5000的印度教徒，佛教徒了，等等。 因为为你自己发现什么是宗教之心， 就必须有彻底地，从所有正统观念、传统中解脱的自由， 从所有以宗教之名进行的娱乐中解脱的自由。 因为在这些观点，概念， 符号，救世主中，我们找到了安全感， 一种复杂的，悲惨的，困惑的生活中的安全感。 这是一种安全的逃避。 但是如果我们现在就在生活中获得了秩序， 也就不存在恐惧， 完全摆脱了恐惧的阴影的意识， 心理上的恐惧， 就具备了宗教之心的品质。 信仰， 不管是基督教的，佛教的， 印度教的，或是穆斯林的信仰， 我们为什么要有这些信仰？ 信仰上帝 ——思想创造的上帝—— 因为上帝就是终极的安全感。 以上帝之名，我们做了许多可怕的事， 烧死他人，折磨他人。 因此一个人要彻底的摆脱，所有的信仰，信念，教条。
51:23 Why is it that when we talk about religious matters, we are so gullible? We don't exercise, apparently, our reason, sanity, common sense. We accept everything. And scepticism and doubt is denied in the Christian world. In the Hindu and the Buddhist organisation of religion, doubt is encouraged, doubt is a part of virtue. So the mind can only understand that which is religion in the sense, to find out or to come upon that which is sacred – if there is something sacred. Because technological culture cannot possibly bring about a totally global culture, religion, and that is impossible – a global interrelationship of humanity, which is the only goal of all politics. 为什么当谈到宗教时， 我们是如此的轻信？ 显然，我们不用我们的常识，理智，逻辑去检验。 我们接受所有的一切。 怀疑、质疑在基督教世界是被否定的。 在印度教或者佛教的宗教组织中， 质疑是被鼓励的， 质疑是美德的一部分。 所以意识只有理解什么是宗教， 或者说去发现， 去找到那神圣的事物 ——如果真的有任何神圣的事物的话。 因为技术性的文化， 不可能带来 彻底的，全球性的文化或宗教， 这不可能， ——全球人类的相互联系， 这也是所有政治家的唯一目标。
53:25 And to come upon this: if there is anything sacred which thought has not invented, meditation is necessary. India, unfortunately, has brought this word into this western world recently. The Christian world had its own contemplative order, contemplative state of mind. But the gurus and others have brought this idea of meditation. And these people have invented or brought their old tradition from Tibet, from Zen in Japan, from Burma, from India, the mischief began in India first: that meditation means you must practise something, practise a method, practise to be silent, practise to be aware, practise the moment, which is the present and so on, so on – practise. 同时为了发现这一点： 是否有并非思想创造的神圣之物， 冥想是必要的。 不幸的是，印度最近把这个词传到了西方。 基督教世界也有自己的所谓“沉思”的秩序， “沉思”的思想状态。 但是大师们和其他人带来了所谓冥想的观念。 也许是自己发明或者借鉴了古老的传统， 西藏， 日本禅宗， 缅甸或者印度的传统。 这种破坏首先从印度开始： 冥想意味着你必须练习某事， 练习一种方法， 练习去安静， 练习去觉察， 练习某个瞬间，也就是当下，等等 ——练习。
55:17 When you are practising something, you are being repetitive. If you are playing the piano and you are practising, you may be practising the wrong note. But here you think it is necessary to practise day after day, take a vow, being a monk, you know the whole business of it – there is no time to go into that. So we practise. The more you practise the more your brain will become dull, obviously. Whether you are practising various systems of meditation, which means your brain is becoming more and more mechanical, it is never free. And to find out or come upon that which is nameless, timeless, sacred, there must be complete freedom not brought about by desire, by thought, but by ending that which is not free like attachment, like pursuit of pleasure, the self-fulfilment, self-centred activity and so on. This demands a great deal of enquiry, a great deal of energy, perception, not only knowing oneself – knowing oneself not through any form of analysis, but knowing oneself through observation of one's reactions in our relationship with each other. Those reactions reveal what we are. And when it reveals what we are, that revelation becomes knowledge to us and so we accumulate more and more knowledge of ourselves. And that knowledge becomes a hindrance to freedom. Please, I haven't time to go into it, just see the truth of it quickly. 当你练习某事，你就是在重复。 如果你练习弹钢琴， 你可能是在练习弹错误的音符。 但是在这里你认为一天天的练习是必要的， 许下誓言，成为和尚， 你知道这一切——我们没时间讨论细节了。 所以，我们练习。 我们练习的越多，我们的头脑就越迟顿， 显然如此。 不论你是在练习哪一种体系的冥想， 你的大脑都变得越来越机械化， 它并不自由。 为了发现或者找到，那无法名状，超越时间的神圣之物， 必须有彻底的自由， 不是欲望，思想带来的自由， 而是通过终结所有并非自由的事物， 像依恋， 对快感的追求， 自我满足，自我中心的行为，等等。 这需要深入的探索， 巨大的能量，去觉察， 不仅要了解自我 ——不是通过任何形式的分析—— 而是通过观察来了解自我， 观察我们在和其他人的关系中的反应。 这些反应就会揭露出我是什么的真相。 当它揭露出我的真相时， 这份揭露又被我们变成了知识， 所以我们积累了越来越多的关于自我的知识。 这些知识又成了自由的障碍。 请注意，我没有时间细致的讨论这些，请快速看到其中的真相。
57:55 So one asks, is there a stop to thought and time? Because if there is time, that is if there is thought, – this perpetual occupation, as most of us are perpetually occupied thinking about various things, chattering – the brain is never quiet but always groping, searching, remembering, hoping. Such a mind, obviously, is never quiet. But to perceive that it is not quiet – without any direction, not say it must be quiet – to perceive it, to observe it is not quiet, then it becomes extraordinarily quiet without any compulsion, without any practice, which means one requires great sensitivity, attention, awareness. Only in that absolute silence of the mind, a silence which is not cultivated by thought, it isn't a silence between noise, between two noises, or between two thoughts – this silence is not that. Silence demands total freedom from all self-centred activity and pursuit of pleasure and fear and so on. Only in that silence completely, can there be that which is nameless. 所以一个人问， 可以停止思想和时间吗？ 因为只要有时间， 也就是有思想， ——被不断占据的思想， 我们绝大多数人就是被不断的占据， 我们考虑许多的事，喋喋不休—— 头脑从不安静， 而是一直在摸索，搜寻，回忆，希望。 显然，这样的头脑从不能安静。 但是去观察这种不安静 ——没有方向，不说它必须安静—— 只是观察它，观察这种不安静， 然后它就变得极其静， 没有任何强迫和练习， 这意味着一个人需要有高度的敏感性， 关注，觉察。 只有在意识彻底安静时， 一种不是被思想培养的安静， 不是噪音之间的安静， 不是两个噪音，两个思想之间的安静 ——不是这种安静。 安静要求彻底从自我中心的行为中解脱出来， 从对快感的追求和恐惧等等中解脱出来。 只有在这种彻底的安静中， 那不可名状之物才会出现。
1:00:44 May I get up? Please don't clap. It only makes noise. 我可以起来了吗？ 请不要鼓掌。 这只会制造噪音。