Krishnamurti Subtitles
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MA8384T2 - 时间和恐惧有什么关系？
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| 0:20 Krishnamurti: There are a lot of people, aren't there? A large audience. I wonder why you come. It is very good of you to come but I wonder why? Do you take what is being said by the speaker seriously or is it something that you attend weekend, and forget the rest of the week? It would be rather interesting to find out why human beings are lectured to, why they attend meetings, why, hearing so many things contradictory, very learned and full of information and knowledge, at the end of it all, we remain more or less what we were before, with our own problems, with our own petty little lives, unhappy and struggle from the moment we are born till we die, constant strife, conflict, struggle. 2:01 I wonder if you come here just to pass the time of the day, or you come because of the reputation, or you are really serious people. Serious not in the sense – not easily convinced. We are not doing any kind of propaganda, not trying to convince you of anything whatsoever. Nor is the speaker your guru. Thank God. Nor are you his followers. You are both the teacher and the person who learns. When you are learning, that very act of learning makes you into a teacher. So we are both the disciple and the guru. If you listen very seriously you should consider, if one may point out. | 0:20 克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：今天来了好多人啊，是吧？ 一大群听众。 我不知道为什么你们会来这里。 你们能来这里当然很好，但我想知道为什么？ 你们会认真地对待演讲者所说的东西吗？ 还是说，它只是你周末的时候过来听一下， 然后在一周其余的时间里 就把它忘掉的东西？ 去发现这一点是相当有趣的： 那就是：为什么人类要接受说教？ 为什么他们要参加各种集会？ 为什么在听过了这么多 相互矛盾的东西、 变得博学多识并掌握了丰富的 信息和知识以后， 我们到头来 却多多少少还是和以前一个模样， 我们依然有着自己的各种问题， 过着琐碎卑微的生活， 一点也不快乐，充满挣扎斗争， 从我们出生那一刻起直到我们死去， 持续不断的斗争、冲突、努力。 2:01 我不知道你们来这里 是否只是为了打发一天的时间， 或者你们是慕名而来， 或者你们是真正认真严肃的人。 这里「认真严肃」的意思是指 不会被轻易地说服。 我们并没有在这里进行任何宣传洗脑活动， 我们并没有试图说服你去相信任何东西。 而演讲者也并不是你的古鲁。 谢天谢地。 而你也不是他的追随者。 你既是老师，也是那个学习者。 当你在学习的时候， 这种「学习」的行为本身 就已经让你变成了一位老师。 所以我们既是弟子，同时也是古鲁。 如果你是非常认真地在聆听， 你就应该好好想想这一点 ——如果某人可以指出这一点的话。 |
| 3:30 We are going to talk about many things together this evening, in the next two meetings that are to follow next weekend, and you may hear several things which probably you have not heard before. And if you have heard or read what the speaker has said, merely to repeat what he has said has very little meaning. But in the very act of listening, that very act helps one to understand and live, apply – not 'I will try to apply'. But one applies, as you do if you are a student in a college or university, you work. If you want to learn mathematics, history and so on, you have to study, you have to enquire, you have to have a good brain. 4:45 But most unfortunately, so-called religious people never use their brains. Am I saying something extravagant? They never enquire, they accept so easily, gullible. And specially when the world is in such a mess, so much destructive activity going on, we try to find someone who will help us to understand all this mess and so get entangled. Whereas here, this evening, and the following two talks, we are going to talk over together, a conversation, to converse about the things that are quite common to mankind, quite accepted, with which we are struggling to understand, to resolve, and perhaps go beyond. | 3:30 今天晚上，我们将会一起来讨论很多东西， 随后，在下个周末，我们还会有两次聚会， 那时你们或许会听到一些东西 ——这些东西可能是你们以前从未听过的。 而如果你曾经听过或读过 演讲者的话语， 那么仅仅去重复他说过的东西 是没有什么意义的。 但是，在聆听的行为本身之中， 这种行动本身就可以帮助我们 去了解、去生活、 去运用它， ——不是“我将试着去运用它”。 而是你自然会去运用它， 就像如果你是学院或者大学里的一名学生， 你就会努力学习。 如果你想要学习数学、历史等等， 你就必须去学习、去探询， 你必须要有一个优秀的大脑才行。 4:45 但最不幸的是， 所谓的“宗教人士”却从来没有 去运用他们的大脑。 我难道是在说着一些不切实际的东西吗？ 他们从来没有去询问， 他们是如此轻易地就接受了， 如此容易上当受骗。 尤其是当这个世界如此混乱不堪， 有如此多的破坏活动正在发生着， 我们试图找到某个可以帮助我们的人， 以便理解所有这些混乱， 于是我们便陷入其中了。 然而在这里，今天晚上， 以及在接下来的两次演讲中， 我们将会一起来讨论， 进行一场对话， 去谈论那些全人类所共有的、 并完全接受认可的东西， 而我们正在努力去了解、去解决这些东西， 或者可能去超越它们。 |
| 6:12 So, this evening we are going to talk over together why human beings right throughout the world are what they are actually, after such long duration of evolution, why we are so primitive psychologically. Though technologically you may be marvellous, you may have excellent degrees and so on, but psychologically, inwardly, we are rather barbarous, primitive people, brutal, violent, cruel, lacking any sense of great beauty, moral rectitude and so on. 7:16 One wonders why we have become like this, why we look to others to help, why we want leaders. We have had leaders galore, and they have led us to all kinds of troubles. So we are always looking for the best leader, for the super leader, both in the political, economic world and also in the religious world. And unfortunately we never find them, unless you have found your own particular little guru around the corner. | 6:12 所以今天晚上，我们将会一起来讨论一下： 为什么全世界的人类 会变成现在这个样子 ——尽管他们已经历了如此漫长岁月的进化， 为什么我们在心理上依然是如此的原始。 尽管在科学技术领域，你们或许很了不起， 你或许会有很高的学历，等等， 但心理上来说，内在而言， 我们却是相当野蛮、原始的人， 残忍、暴力、残酷无情， 感知不到任何「伟大的美」， 也缺乏道德诚实，等等。 7:16 某人（指克氏自己）想知道为什么 我们会变成现在这个样子， 为什么我们会指望他人来帮助我们， 为什么我们会想要领袖。 我们曾经有过很多的领袖， 然而他们却给我们带来了各种麻烦困扰。 所以我们永远都在寻找着最好的领袖、 那个“超级领袖” ——既包括在政治世界中、经济世界中， 也包括在宗教领域中。 但不幸的是，我们从来没有找到他们 ——除了你在某个拐角处所找到的 某个卑微渺小的古鲁。 |
| 8:22 So, this evening we are going to talk over together many problems. And one of the problems is: why human beings have ideals at all? This is really quite an important, question. Why human beings right throughout the world cling to some form of ideals. The ideals are not facts, they are not actuality. What is actuality is what is happening now. The now contains all the past, the present and the future. We will go into that a little. So, we are asking why we have become like this, so narrow, selfish, brutal, concerned with ourselves, you know all the rest of it, what we are. 10:10 And we never seem to be free to look at the world and our own little world afresh, anew, unless we have the capacity to wipe out all the past, to have a clean slate tabla rasa – and start from there. It is a marvellous world, unfortunately we can't wipe out the past. And the past is a very complicated process of time. Time is one of the factors of our life, daily life. The time as past, the time as the present and the time as the future, both biologically as well as physically. 11:28 All the remembrances, the remorses, the guilt, all that is a movement of time, which is the past. And the time of the past is the present, or the now, in which all time is contained. This is going to be rather difficult, let's go into it step by step. | 8:22 所以，今天晚上，我们将要一起来讨论 很多的问题。 而其中一个问题就是： 人类为什么一定要有理想？ 这真的是一个非常重要的问题： 那就是为什么人类 ——全世界的人类 会执著于某种形式的理想。 那些理想并非事实， 它们并不是现实中真实的东西。 现实中真实的东西是此刻正在发生的事情。 「此刻」就蕴含着 所有的过去、现在和未来。 我们将会稍微来探讨一下它。 所以，我们正在问： 为什么我们会变成现在这个样子 ——如此的狭隘、自私、残忍， 只关心我们自己， 你们都知道所有这些东西 ——都知道我们是什么模样。 10:10 而我们似乎从来没有自由地 去观察过这个世界， 观察过我们自己的“小世界” ——去崭新地、重新观察它们， 除非我们能拥有那种 去清除掉所有「过去」的能力， 变成一块“白板”、 一张白纸那样——然后从那里开始。 这是一个无比美好的世界， 但遗憾的是，我们却无法清除掉「过去」。 「过去」是一个非常复杂的时间的过程。 而「时间」是我们生命、我们日常生活的要素之一。 作为「过去」的时间， 作为「现在」的时间， 以及作为「未来」的时间， 既包括生物学上的、物理学上的时间。 11:28 也包括所有的那些记忆、悔恨、内疚， 所有这些都是一种时间的运动 ——也就是「过去」。 而那种作为「过去」的时间， 它就是「当下」 ——或者说是「现在」， 在其中就包含了所有的时间。 这个问题即将变得相当困难， 让我们一步一步地来探究它吧。 |
| 12:07 Because we live by time, I hope to see you tomorrow, I hope to achieve, I want to be better than I am, in my job, in my way of living and so on. There is always a becoming, a growing, and that which is always growing is always ending. Right? Are we together in all this? And the future is now. Do you understand? What we are now, we will be tomorrow and a thousand tomorrows. That is a fact. But if we change radically now, psychologically, inwardly, then the future is now. You understand? We will go into it presently, much more in detail. You all look so puzzled, it is not so very complex, but we make everything terribly complex, we are not simple people. 13:52 We are full of knowledge and perhaps that is one of our difficulties. And knowledge conditions the brain. And knowledge is time. And to understand something like violence, which most human beings are violent human beings, and to understand this whole process of violence, the knowledge which we have acquired about violence and the knowledge, rather – not knowledge – the theory of non-violence, that is also part of knowledge. And so we are never free from violence. Let me go into it a little bit more. | 12:07 因为我们是依靠「时间」而活的， 我希望明天能见到你， 我希望获得成功， 我想要变成一个更好的自己 ——我的工作变得更好， 我的生活方式变得更好，等等。 我们总是会有一种“变成”、一种成长， 而那个总是在成长的东西，就总是会有结束。 对吧？ 我们是否都理解这一切了？ 而「未来」就是「现在」。 你们理解了吗？ 我们现在是什么样子， 我们明天也会如此， 在一千个明天以后也会如此。 这是一个事实。 而如果我们可以此刻就彻底地改变， 在心理上、内在彻底地转变， 那么「未来」就是「此刻」。 你们理解了吗？ 我们马上就会更详细地来探究这个问题。 你们看起来都是如此的困惑， 这个问题其实并没有那么复杂， 但我们却已经把所有东西 都变得无比复杂了， 我们并没有成为简单的人。 13:52 我们充满了知识， 或许这就是我们的困难之一。 因为知识制约了大脑。 知识就是「时间」。 而要了解某种诸如「暴力」这样的东西 ——绝大多数人都是暴力的， 而要了解这整个暴力的过程， 了解我们所取得的关于「暴力」的知识， 而这种知识， ——确切地说，它并不是一种知识—— 而那种「非暴力」的理论， 它同样也是知识的一部分。 所以我们从未能够摆脱掉暴力。 让我再稍微深入地来探究一下它。 |
| 15:16 Let's take an example of violence. We are violent people. We may have a quiet life, you may not quarrel with your wife and husband, which is rather rare, but deeply we are violent people – anger, aggression. Violence isn't merely physical action. Violence is part of imitation, conformity. And we have its opposite, non-violence. And in this country they have talked a lot about non-violence. And in the recent wars that you have had in this country, there isn't one person, I was told, who stood up against war. 16:35 But that is irrelevant. What is important is, is it possible to understand the whole nature of violence and be free of it and not pursue non-violence? Do you understand? Are we meeting each other? Yes? I am violent – suppose, the speaker has only once been angry. It sounds rather strange. And at that moment when he was angry, it seemed so absurd, so silly to be angry about something. And when you see the stupidity of anger it is gone. You don't try to control it, you don't try to suppress it. 17:45 You see the absurdity of getting angry about anything and that is the end of it. Do think about this. To observe, to be aware, to give your full attention that you are angry, at that moment you see the whole nature of anger. So violence, for example, what is violence? It is a fact. The non-fact is non-violence. Right? Would you agree to that? The pursuit of non-violence, which may take all your life, and in the pursuit of that ideal you are all the time being violent. You try to control it, you try to suppress it, you act upon it. 18:59 But you are part of that violence. Aren't you? You, when you get angry you are part of that anger, you are anger. When you are greedy, that feeling is not separate from you, you are that. But when we try to suppress or analyse or control, you separate yourself from the fact and then try to dominate it or suppress it, etc. But one realises you are that. I wonder. When one realises, when I realise completely that I am violent, then I remain with that fact, I don't pursue stupidly the idea of non-violence. 20:10 It is a fact, I am violent, mad, angry, brutal, and that is a fact, and I realise there is no violence separate from me. I am violence, because I am angry, I am competitive, ambitious, ruthless and so on. Also I imitate, I conform – that is part of anger, violence. So, the observer who says, 'I am violent', the observer is part of that. Right? So there is no contradiction. | 15:16 让我们拿「暴力」来举个例子。 我们都是暴力之人。 我们或许拥有平静的生活， 你也许不会和你的妻子或丈夫争吵 ——这是相当罕见的情况， 然而内心深处，我们却是暴力的人 ——愤怒，具有攻击性。 暴力并不仅仅是外在身体上的行动。 暴力也是模仿和遵从的一部分。 然后我们便有了它的反面 ——也就是「非暴力」。 而在这个国家（印度）中， 人们大量地谈论关于「非暴力」的事情。 而在你们这个国家近期发生的战争中， 有人告诉我说，却没有一个人站出来反对战争。 16:35 不过这和我们的主题是不相干的。 重要的是： 我们是否可能了解「暴力」的全部本质， 然后摆脱掉它， 而不是去追求“非暴力”？ 你们理解了吗？ 我们是否彼此理解了？ 理解了吗？ 我是暴力的——假设我是暴力的。 演讲者只生过一次气。 这听起来相当奇怪是吧。 在他生气的那个时刻， 当时他很愤怒， 在他看来，为某样东西生气发怒， 这是如此荒谬、 如此愚蠢的事情。 所以当你看到愤怒的愚蠢之处， 愤怒就会消失了。 你不用努力去控制它， 你也不用努力去压制它。 17:45 因为你看到了 对任何事物动怒的荒谬之处， 于是愤怒就结束了。 请好好想想这一点。 去观察、去觉察， 去全神贯注于你的愤怒， 在那一刻，你就会看到愤怒的全部本质。 所以，就拿「暴力」来举个例子， 什么是「暴力」呢？ 「暴力」是一个事实。 而“非暴力”——它并不是事实。 对吧？ 你们同意这一点吗？ 去追求“非暴力”可能会花费你一生的时间， 然而就在追求这个理想的过程中， 你却一直都是暴力的。 你努力去控制它， 你努力去克制它， 你对它采取各种行动。 18:59 然而你自己却是那种暴力的一部分。 不是吗？ 当你愤怒的时候， 你就是那个愤怒的一部分， 你就是「愤怒」。 当你贪婪的时候， 这种贪婪的感觉，它和你并不是分离的， 你就是贪婪。 然而当我们试图去压制它、 分析它或控制它的时候， 你就把自己和这个事实分开了， 然后你努力去支配它、压制它，等等。 但某人（指克氏自己）意识到： 你其实就是那个东西。 我不知道你们懂了没 当某人意识到，当我完全地意识到“我是暴力的”， 那么我就会和这个事实待在一起， 我不会再愚蠢地去追求那个“非暴力”的理念。 20:10 这是一个事实：即 我是暴力的、 疯狂的、愤怒的、残忍的， 这是一个事实，而我意识到 并不存在某个与我分离的“暴力”。 因为我就是暴力，我充满了愤怒， 我争强好胜、野心勃勃、冷酷无情，等等。 此外，我也会去模仿、去遵从 ——它们也是愤怒和暴力的一部分。 所以，当那个观察者说，“我很暴力”的时候， 这个观察者就是暴力的一部分。 对吧？ 由此便没有了矛盾。 |
| 21:18 Where there is contradiction there must be conflict. I wonder if you have ever gone into the question – not a problem, a question – whether one can live in this world normally, healthily, sanely, not neurotically or other directions, without a single shadow of conflict. I wonder if you have ever questioned it, to find out if you can live actually, whatever the circumstances are, whatever the environment, whatever the pressures, the limitations, whether one can live a life in which there is not a single conflict. Have you ever questioned it? 22:26 Come on. Or it has never occurred to you? We accept conflict as the way of life, as corruption in this country and other countries, is the way of life. So we accept it, it is part of it, we get on with it. So conflict makes the mind, the brain dull. The brain is a machine. Like a good car, we must keep it in perfect condition, tuned, give proper oil and change the oil every 2000 miles if you are lucky, to make the engine last long. So the brain is matter, a material thing, a machine with all its extraordinary capacities, which is really quite infinite. 23:40 But if that brain is in constant struggle, conflict, going round and round with its own problems, its own miseries, that very conflict degenerates the brain, it is worn out, and so we are incapable of meeting life afresh. Are we together when the speaker is talking about all this? Are you taking interest in it, or is it just another meeting you go to? And you are being lectured at, not understanding, investigating yourself, your own life, the way you live. | 21:18 当有了矛盾，就必定会有冲突。 我不知道你们是否曾经探究过这个问题 ——它不是一个难题，而是一个问题—— 那就是：我们能否正常地、 健康地、心智健全地生活在这个世界上， 没有那些神经质的东西，或其他此类东西 ——我们能否这样活在世界上 且没有丝毫冲突的阴影。 我不知道你们是否曾经提出过这个问题， 去发现 你是否能够 真正这样子去生活， 无论身处什么样的状况、 什么样的环境、什么样的压力、 什么样的局限， 我们是否可能去过一种 在其中没有丝毫冲突的生活？ 你们曾经问过这个问题吗？ 22:26 来吧，先生们。 还是说，你脑海中从来没有出现过这个问题？ 我们已经接受了「冲突」 将其视为一种生活方式， 就像在这个国家（印度）和其他国家里， 「腐败堕落」 已经成为了生活方式一样。 所以我们接受了它，它是生活的一部分， 我们继续着这种生活。 因此，冲突让头脑、让大脑变得迟钝了。 大脑就是一个机器。 就像一辆很棒的汽车， 我们必须要保持它 处于完美运行的状态中， 将它调校好， 给它加上合适的汽油， 然后每2000英里更换一次机油——如果你运气好的话， 从而让发动机寿命持久。 所以大脑是一种物质事物， 它是一种物质化的东西，是一个机器， 它有着各种非凡出色的能力， 它的能力简直是无限的。 23:40 但如果这个大脑处于 持续不断斗争和冲突的状态中， 带着它自己的各种问题和痛苦 不停地循环打转， 那么这种冲突本身就会让大脑退化， 大脑会被消耗殆尽， 由此我们便无法 以全新的姿态去面对生活了。 当演讲者谈论这一切的时候， 我们是否都能理解它？ 你们对这个东西有兴趣吗， 还是说，这只是你所参加的又一个集会而已？ 你们只是听别人演讲， 而没有去了解、去探究你自己， 你自己的生活、你的生活方式。 |
| 24:45 So, it is possible to be free of total violence. Not in the future which is the ideal, and the pursuit of that ideal has led people nowhere, but if one is taking violence and looking, going into it, not analytically – that is another question. Who is the analyser? You understand? Who is the entity that analyses any reaction that you have, like violence? Violence is a reaction. And who is the entity that analyses violence? Because you are violence. But when you separate yourself from violence then you can analyse it. 25:52 Right? So the separation by the analyser away from the analysed creates a division, and therefore in that division there must be conflict. Whereas – please listen to it, even for fun, just listen to it – whereas the analyser is the analysed. Right? I am violent, the analyser is also part of me, who is also violent. And one violence examines, analyses, another violence. So there is always this contradiction. There is no contradiction if there is no division. So the analyser is the analysed, like the thinker is the thought. 27:17 The thought is not separate from the thinker. I wonder if you see this. The experiencer is not different from the experience. But we are always seeking experience, as though experience is something different from me. So there is no duality at all. I wonder if you understand this, in spite of your Advaita and all that kind of business. In spite of all your philosophy, and all your teachers about – Advaita, is it? Good enough, that word. They have all theorised about duality, only the enlightened escape from all duality and all that kind of stuff. 28:16 But the actual fact is, if you go into it, there is only 'what is'. There is only violence and there is no opposite to it. You understand? But our brains are conditioned to the opposite. Therefore our brain is struggling to achieve the opposite. And therefore, in that, there is conflict, suppression and so on. But whereas the fact is, there is only this. That is 'what is', which is violence. Right? And if you give your attention to the fact of violence and look at it without any analytical process then you will see it is like a map that is being slowly revealed. 29:31 Then you see the whole content of that word. Are we meeting each other? Are we together in this? You are all asleep. All right, I will go on. | 24:45 所以，我们是否可能摆脱掉全部的暴力。 不是在未来摆脱掉它 ——那只是个理想， 追求这种理想只会让人们一无所获， 但如果我们可以拿起「暴力」， 然后去观察它、深入它， 不是去分析它 ——这又是另一个问题了。 谁才是那个分析者呢？ 你们理解了吗？ 那个在分析你的某种反应 ——比方说「暴力」——的实体， 这个实体是谁呢？ 「暴力」就是一种反应。 那么那个分析暴力的实体是谁呢？ 因为你就是暴力。 然而在你把自己和暴力分开以后， 那时你就可以去分析暴力了。 25:52 对吧？ 所以这种分析者 与被分析事物之间的分离， 它造成了分裂， 因此在这种分裂之中，就必定会有冲突。 然而 ——请听好它， 即使只是为了好玩， 也请听好它—— 然而 那个分析者，他就是被分析物。 是吧？ 我是暴力的， 而那个分析者是我的一部分， 所以他也是暴力的。 然后一个暴力会去检视、分析另一个暴力。 由此便总是会有矛盾冲突。 而如果没有这种分裂，就不会有矛盾冲突了。 所以分析者就是被分析物， 就像 思想者是思想 一样。 27:17 思想和那个思想者并不是分离的。 我不知道你们是否看到了这一点。 那个经验者和经验并没有什么不同。 然而我们却总是在寻求经验， 就好像「经验」是某种与「我」不同的事物一样。 所以这里根本就没有「二元性」。 我不知道你们是否理解了这一点， 尽管你们也有「不二论」，等等所有这类东西。 尽管你们有着各种哲学， 各种老师来讲授…… ——不二论，是叫不二论吧？ 很好，就是这个词。 他们对二元性进行了所有各种理论探讨， 只有那个“开悟之人”才可以摆脱掉所有的二元性， 等等这类说法。 28:16 然而实际的事实是： 如果你深入探究它的话， （你会发现）存在的只有「真实现状」。 存在的只有暴力，而并没有它的反面。 你们理解了吗？ 然而我们的大脑却已经被对立面所制约了。 因此我们的大脑会奋力 去达到那个对立面。 所以在这个过程中就会有冲突、 压抑，等等。 然而事实上，存在的只有“这个东西” 它就是「真实现状」——也就是「暴力」。 对吧？ 而如果你将注意力放在「暴力」这个事实上， 去观察它而没有任何分析的过程， 那时你就会发现它（暴力）会像一张 正在被慢慢摊开的地图。 29:31 然后你就会看到这个词（暴力） 所包含的全部内容了。 我们是否彼此理解了对方？ 我们都理解这点了吗？ 你们都睡着了。 行吧，我会继续讲下去。 |
| 29:54 We ought to talk over together – fear. Because that is part of our life, probably the major part of our life. Fear: what is the cause of fear? Not the object which creates fear. Not something the word evokes. You understand? The word may bring about fear. The word 'fear' may arouse fear. But when you have no word but only observe the reaction which we call fear, what is the root of it? This requires a great deal of exploration. And one hopes that you are willing to go into this with the speaker. Fear is time. I am going to go into it. 31:28 Fear is a movement in time. So, first let us examine carefully what is time. Time as rising and setting. Sun rises and sets. The interval between the sun rising and the sun setting is time. Right? There is time to cover a distance from point to point. There is time which is for you to go to your home from here takes time. It may be an instant or an hour. So there is physical time. Which is to learn a language takes time, to learn to drive a car takes time. If you a want to be a pilot you have to learn a great deal, a great many months and so on. 32:56 So there is physical time. Right? You understand? And also there is psychological time – I will be, I will become – I am a clerk but I will become the manager one day. I am ignorant but one day I will be enlightened. That is, I am this, I will be that. That is psychological time. There is physical time, sun rising, sun setting, moving from one point to another point. And there is psychological time which is, I am, I will not be, I am living but I will die. That is a tremendous interval. I am fifteen – I am not – I am fifteen but I will die one day when I am eighty. 34:42 That is the movement of that long interval which is psychological time. Right? And also there is the time as the future. Right? I have a job now, I might lose that job, I am quarrelling with my wife, but one day we will be happy together. So, there is time as the past, time as the present please listen carefully, if you don't mind, if you are interested – there is time as the past, time as the present, now, and time as the future. Right? But the time now, is the future. The time now is what I am now. But the future is what is present. 36:07 Got it? So, in the now all the past and the future are contained. Right? So the future and the past exist now. I am the result of all the past modifying itself in the present, and the future is the present. Unless I radically bring about or rather, there is a mutation in my brain cells, I will be what I am now, unless there is tremendous psychological revolution. So the present is the past and the future, contained now. That is time. | 29:54 我们应该一起来讨论一下……恐惧。 因为恐惧是我们生活的一部分， 而且或许是我们生活中主要的部分。 恐惧： 恐惧的根源是什么？ 不是造成恐惧的那个事物。 不是那个词语所引发的东西。 你们理解了吗？ 那个词语也许会带来恐惧。 “恐惧”这个词或许也会引发恐惧。 然而当你没有文字词语， 而只是去观察 我们称之为“恐惧”的那种反应， 那么恐惧的根源是什么呢？ 这需要大量的探索。 而某人（指克氏自己）希望你们愿意 和眼前这位演讲者一起来深入探讨它。 恐惧就是「时间」。 我将会来探究这一点。 31:28 恐惧就是一种“时间中的运动”。 所以，首先，让我们来小心仔细地 检视一下“什么是时间”。 时间就像是“升起”和“落下”。 对吧？ 太阳升起然后落下。 在太阳升起和太阳落下之间的 那个“间隔”——它就是「时间」。 是吧？ 走完从这个地点到那个地点的路程距离 ——这就是「时间」。 时间，它就是 当你从这里回到你的家中 ——这也需要花费「时间」 这个「时间」也许是很短很短的时间， 也许是一个小时。 所以存在着 物理上的时间。 也就是：要学会一门语言，它要花费时间， 要学会驾驶汽车，这要花费时间。 如果你想要成为一名飞行员， 你就必须学习大量的东西， 进行无数个月的学习，等等。 32:56 所以存在着物理上的时间。 对吧？ 你们听懂了吗？ 此外还存在着心理上的时间 ——我将会成为什么什么， 我将会变成某某人——我是一名职员， 但有朝一日我将会变成经理。 我是无知的，但总有一天 我将会“开悟”。 换句话说：我是这样的， 但我“将会变成”那样的。 这就是心理上的时间。 存在着物理上的时间：太阳升起，太阳落下， 从一个地点移动到另一个地点。 还存在着「心理上的时间」， 也就是：我是这样的，我将不会变成那样的， 我现在活着，但我将会死去。 这是一个无比漫长的“间隔”。 我现在十五岁——不是指我本人—— 假设我十五岁，但总有一天我将会死去 ——当我八十岁的时候。 34:42 这就是那个「漫长间隔」的运动 ——也就是「心理时间」。 对吧？ 此外还存在着作为「未来」的时间。 是吧？ 我现在有着一份工作， 但我或许会丢掉这份工作， 我现在正和我的妻子吵架， 但总有一天，我们还是会重归于好。 所以，存在着作为「过去」的时间 以及作为「现在」的时间， 请仔细听好——如果你们不介意的话， 如果你们有兴趣的话—— 存在着作为「过去」的时间， 以及作为「当下」、作为「现在」的时间， 还有作为「未来」的时间。 对吧？ 然而「当下」这一刻，它就是「未来」。 「当下」就是我现在的模样。 而「未来」则是我此刻的样子。 36:07 明白了吗？ 所以，「当下」之中就包含了 所有的「过去」和「未来」。 对吧？ 因此「未来」和「过去」都存在于此刻。 我就是所有「过去」的结果， 这个结果在「当下」修改了自身， 而「未来」就是「当下」。 除非我能从根本上带来 或者更确切地说， 除非我的大脑细胞发生一次突变， 否则我仍将会是现在这个样子 ——除非能有一次巨大的心理上的革命。 所以「当下」就是「过去」和「未来」， 它也包含了「此刻」。 这就是「时间」。 |
| 37:24 What relationship has time to fear? Because that is what we are going to discuss, talk over together. Cause most human beings are frightened, have innumerable forms of fear: fear of darkness, which is neurotic, psychopathic and so on, fear of dying, fear of living, fear that you might lose what you have, fear of your wife and your husband. Is that rare in this country? I wonder if you are all saints. You don't seem to react to anything. If there is fear of what you possess, you might lose, fear of growing old and dying. So, human beings right throughout the world have tremendous anxiety, which is part of fear. Anxiety of not fulfilling, anxiety of not being yourself, anxiety of what other people might do to you and so on. All that is a form of fear. | 37:24 那么时间和恐惧的关系又是什么呢？ 因为这就是我们将要一起来讨论 和详细探讨的东西。 因为绝大多数人都很害怕， 他们有着无数种恐惧： 恐惧黑暗 ——这是一种神经质、一种精神病，等等， 恐惧死亡， 恐惧生活， 恐惧你可能会失去自己拥有的东西， 恐惧你的妻子或你的丈夫。 这些恐惧在这个国家（印度）里难道很罕见吗？ 我怀疑你们是不是都是圣人。 你们似乎对任何事物都没有什么反应。 你是否会恐惧 自己也许会失去 你所拥有的东西， 恐惧衰老和死亡。 所以，全世界的人都有着巨大的焦虑感 ——这种焦虑也是恐惧的一部分。 焦虑无法自我实现， 焦虑无法做自己， 焦虑别人可能会对你做出什么举动，等等。 所有这些都是恐惧的表现形式。 |
| 39:25 So what is the relationship between fear and time? And shall we, in our conversation, trim the branches of fear? You understand? Take one branch after another, or should we deal with the root of fear? You have understood my question? I may be frightened of my wife, or frightened of darkness and I want that particular problem solved. But also I have other problems of fear, it is not just only one, I have fear of dying, fear of growing old, fear my brain will degenerate, fear God won't give me what I want, unless you go to a particular temple. We were told the other day there is a temple nearby, 200 miles or 150 miles, where every three days they have a million dollars. 41:03 God is very profitable. Yes sir, you laugh at it, but your gods are very demanding of your pocket. That is, you give him something and he gives you something in return, reward and punishment. And that is what we call worshipping God. You are a strange crowd, all right. So, what is the relationship between fear and time? And also what is the relationship of fear with thought? You understand? I am afraid, afraid of so many things but I want to understand the root of it. Because if I can understand, see the quality, the nature, the structure of fear, then it is finished. 42:29 But if I merely trim the branches, then fear will continue. So our concern is not how to be rid of fear, that is another one of our fallacies. But if one can delve deeply into the nature of fear then we should be able to be free of it entirely. And we are going to talk about it this evening, and if you apply your brain, not the explanation which the speaker is going to give, but the actual investigation on your part, not just listen or hear and forget all about it, but if you actually listen, apply as you are sitting there, and go with the speaker in investigating, not accepting what he says, but investigating, questioning, asking yourself, then one might get up so utterly free of fear, and then there will be no gods. 44:00 A man who is free of all fear, he needs no comfort, he needs no reward. He doesn't seek something that will help him. This is a burden which mankind has carried for a million years – fear. So, let's go into it. | 39:25 所以「恐惧」和「时间」的关系是什么呢？ 而在我们的谈话中，我们是否应该 来“修剪”一下恐惧的细枝末节呢？ 你们理解了吗？ 也就是一个接一个地去处理恐惧的各种分支， 还是说，我们应该去处理恐惧的根源？ 你们理解我的问题吗？ 我或许会害怕我的妻子， 或者害怕黑暗， 于是我想要这个特定的（恐惧）问题得到解决。 然而我还有其他恐惧的问题， 我不是只有一个恐惧， 我恐惧死亡， 恐惧衰老， 恐惧我的大脑将会堕落退化， 恐惧神不会给予我 我所想要的东西 ——除非你能去参拜某个特定的神庙。 不久前有一天，有人告诉我们说： 这附近有一座神庙， 距离这里有200英里或150英里远， 这座神庙每三天 就可以进账一百万美元。 41:03 所以「神」是非常赚钱的玩意儿。 是的，先生，你们听了这话都笑了， 但你们的神明对你们的钱包 也提出了很高的要求。 换句话说，你给神明一些东西， 然后神明也给你一些东西作为回报， 奖励与惩罚。 而这就是我们所谓的“崇拜神明”。 你们可真是一群奇怪的人，好吧。 所以，恐惧和时间之间的关系是什么呢？ 此外，恐惧和思想的关系又是什么呢？ 你们理解了吗？ 我很害怕， 我害怕如此多的东西， 但我想要了解这种「害怕」的根源。 因为如果我可以了解它， 看清恐惧的品质、本质与结构的话， 那么恐惧就会结束。 42:29 但如果我仅仅只是修剪（恐惧的）细枝末节， 那么恐惧就将会继续下去。 因此我们所关心的并不是 如何摆脱掉恐惧， 这是另一个我们的谬论。 但如果我们可以深入探究恐惧的本质， 我们应该就可以完全地 摆脱掉它了。 而今天晚上，我们将会来讨论一下它， 而如果你们可以运用自己的大脑 不是去思考演讲者即将给出的解释， 而是你自己这一方 去实际地探究一下它， 不只是随便听听，听到一些东西， 然后把它们忘得一干二净， 而是，如果你可以真的去聆听， 当你坐在那里的时候就这样去聆听， 和演讲者一起去探究， 不是接受同意他所说的东西， 而是亲自去探究、去质疑、去发问， 那么你或许就能够完全彻底地摆脱恐惧 自己站起来了， 而那时就不会有什么“神明”了。 44:00 一个摆脱掉了所有恐惧的人， 他并不需要什么安慰， 也不需要什么奖励回报。 他不会去寻求某种可以帮助他的东西。 人类上百万年以来一直背负着这个重担 ——也就是「恐惧」。 所以让我们来探讨一下它吧。 |
| 44:32 We said time is a factor of fear. Time being the remembrance of an incident which caused fear – please follow this if you don't mind, if you are interested in it – remembrance of an incident that caused fear, which is registered or recorded in the brain. And that record is still there and I now have fear. So the record remembers the fact of fear. So from the past I recognise the fear. You understand? The knowledge of a past incident which caused fear is registered in the brain, as in a tape. So the brain has knowledge of fear. 46:05 Right? Knowledge of fear, so knowledge is fear. You understand? Go into it with me. See the beauty of it and then you will see what it means. So when fear arises now, memory steps in and says, yes, I know that is fear. Right? Which means the knowledge which you have had with regard to fear, that knowledge says that is fear. So knowledge itself becomes fear. Right? You understand this? And the word, the word 'fear' may also contribute to fear. You understand? So knowledge is the word and the word may cause fear. So can you look – please listen to it – is there an observation of fear without the knowledge of other fears? 47:27 So that you are looking, there is a perception of fear without the movement of knowledge. You understand? So, fear is the movement of knowledge as the past, and that knowledge is time. So fear is also part of thought. I might die tomorrow, I might lose my job, I am this but I will become that, it is all the movement of thought. Right? No? I have a job now, I work in a factory, or I am a cook, a carpenter, not your big top people, I am just an ordinary person. Even the top people have a great deal of fears, I assure you. 48:56 And I am a carpenter and I might lose my job tomorrow. The tomorrow is time, and thought says, I might lose my job. It is thought. So thought, time are movements. Right? Movements of knowledge. I wonder if you see all this. I am discovering this myself as I am going along. Which is, can the brain not record? You understand? I will show you. Listen to it, if you want to have fun. | 44:32 我们说「时间」是造成恐惧的因素之一。 「时间」就是记忆 ——回忆起某个曾经导致恐惧的事件， 请跟上这些 ——如果你们不介意的话， 如果你们对此有兴趣的话—— 回忆起某个招致恐惧的事件， 这个事件在大脑中被登记或记录下来了。 而这个记录仍旧在那里， 于是我现在便有了恐惧。 所以那个「记录」，它还记得恐惧的事实。 因此我经由「过去」而识别了「恐惧」。 你们理解了吗？ 我们知道过去曾经导致恐惧的事件 ——而这种“知识”就像磁带一样 在大脑中被记录下来了。 所以大脑便拥有了关于恐惧的“知识”。 46:05 对吧？ 对于恐惧的认知， 所以“知识”就是恐惧。 你们理解了吗？ 请和我一起来探究它。 去看到它的美，然后你就会明白它的意思了。 所以，当恐惧在此刻出现以后， 记忆便介入进来，然后说： 是的，我知道那是“恐惧”。 对吧？ 它就意味着那些你所拥有的关于「恐惧」的知识， 是那种“知识”在说：这是恐惧。 所以“知识”本身变成了恐惧。 对吧？ 你们理解这一点了吗？ 而文字词语， “恐惧”这个词，可能也会招致恐惧。 你们能理解吗？ 所以“知识”就是文字词语，而词语也可能会导致恐惧。 所以，你能否去观察…… ——请听好它—— 是否存在着一种对于恐惧的观察 ——这种观察中是没有 关于其他恐惧的“知识”的？ 47:27 由此你才算是（真正地）在看， 你在感知洞察「恐惧」， 但其中并没有“知识”的活动。 你们听懂了吗？ 所以，恐惧就是“作为「过去」的知识”的运动， 而这种知识就是「时间」。 对吧？ 因此，恐惧同样也是思想的一部分。 我明天也许会死去， 我也许会失去我的工作， 我现在是这个样子的，但我将会变成那个样子的， 这一切全都是思想的运动。 是吧？ 不是吗？ 我现在有一份工作， 我在一家工厂上班， 或者我是一名厨师， 或者是一个木匠， 总之不是你们眼中的那些“大人物”， 我只是一个普通人。 而即使是那些上层人物也有着无数的恐惧 ——这点我可以向你们保证。 48:56 我是一个木匠， 我明天可能就会失业。 这个“明天”就是「时间」， 于是思想说：我也许会失去工作。 是思想在 所以思想、时间就是「运动」。 对吧？ 知识的运动。 我不知道你们是否明白了这一切。 我一边在演讲，一边也在探索发现这些东西。 也就是：大脑是否能够 不去记录呢？ 你们明白了吗？ 让我来告诉你们吧。 请听好它 ——如果你们想要获得乐趣的话。 |
| 49:52 You flatter me, the brain immediately records it, and you insult me, the brain again records it. It is a machine that is recording all the time. Right? And that becomes our knowledge and from that knowledge we act. Now, if you do not record, you flatter me, the brain doesn't record. I don't say, 'You are a great friend of mine'. Or insult me – neither insult nor flattery is recorded. You understand? Then knowledge is not necessary which might create fear. But I must have knowledge how to write a letter, how to do business, if I am crooked or otherwise, I must have knowledge. 51:16 If I am an accountant I must have knowledge. I don't know if you are following all this. But the psychological knowledge which is recorded, is it possible not to record psychologically? You understand? Find out sir, don't agree with me. Find out whether it is possible psychologically not to record. Which means the brain has seen the fact of this, therefore it is unconditioning itself. So fear is a movement of time and thought. Right? Now, please don't ask, 'How am I to stop thinking?' 52:34 If the speaker is silly enough to give you a system, in that very system there is inherent decay, whether it is a bureaucratic system or a particular system of meditation, system of thought. In the very structure of a system, inherent in it there is decay. It is called entropy, but I won't go into all that. Physicists know this – wastage of energy – which can be measured. | 49:52 你奉承了我， 于是大脑立即将其记录下来了， 而当你侮辱我的时候， 大脑也会把它记录下来。 大脑就是一个一直不停地在记录的机器。 对吧？ 那些记录变成了我们的“知识”， 而我们则经由这些知识来行动。 然而，如果你不去记录， 当你奉承我的时候，如果大脑没有去记录 我没有说，“你是我的一位非常要好的朋友”。 或者当你侮辱我的时候 ——不管是侮辱还是奉承，都不去记录。 你们理解了吗？ 那时“知识”并不是必需的， 因为它可能会造成恐惧。 但我必须要拥有知识 才能知道如何去写一封信， 如何去做生意 ——如果我是一个狡诈之人或者别的什么， 我必须要有相关知识。 51:16 如果我是一个会计， 我就必须要拥有（会计）知识。 我不知道你们是否跟上了所有这些。 然而那种心理上的知识 ——这些知识被记录下来了， 那么是否可能不在心理上去记录呢？ 你们听懂了吗？ 去搞清楚它，先生， 不要只是同意我。 去发现：是否可能在心理上不去记录。 这意味着大脑已经看到了这其中的真相， 由此它正在摆脱自身的局限。 所以，恐惧就是一种时间和思想的运动。 是吧？ 但现在，请不要问，“我要如何才能停止思考？” 52:34 如果演讲者足够愚蠢 而给了你某个「体系」的话， 那么这个体系内在就会发生腐败衰退， 不管它是官僚政治的体系， 还是某个冥想练习体系， 或者某个思想体系。 那个体系的结构本身，其内在就蕴含着「腐败衰退」。 这种现象被称为“熵”， 但这些东西我就不展开讲了。 物理学家知道它（熵） ——它是能量的损耗—— 这种能量损耗是可测量的。 |
| 53:25 And the brain is now burdened with a great deal of knowledge and that knowledge has become our conditioning and therefore that very knowledge prevents us from seeing something new, fresh. Whereas if you can look at fear as it arises for the first time, then it is something entirely different. It is a reaction, a physical reaction and a psychological reaction. So fear, the root of fear is the movement of time and thought. But if you understand the nature of time, not intellectually, but actually, the nature and the structure of time, and also understand the nature and the structure of thought – understand. 54:38 That means investigate, be completely familiar with the thing, with the movement of time and movement of thought, which are the basis of fear, then fear, because you are so completely holding this thing in your hands as it were, it requires your attention, that very attention burns away fear. I wonder if you understand all this. | 53:25 大脑现在已经背负了大量的“知识”， 而这种知识已经变成了我们的局限， 因此这种知识本身 就阻碍了我们去看到某种 全新的、新鲜的事物。 然而如果你可以观察恐惧 ——就好像它是第一次出现的东西， 那它就是某种截然不同的事物。 它（恐惧）只是一种反应， 一种身体上的反应， 同样也是心理上的反应。 所以恐惧，恐惧的根源 它就是「时间和思想的运动」。 但如果你理解了时间的本质， 不是思想智力上理解，而是真正了解了它， 了解了时间的本质与结构， 同样也理解了思想的本质与结构 ——理解它。 54:38 这意味着去探究， 完全地熟悉那个东西， 熟悉了解时间的运动， 以及思想的运动 ——它们就是恐惧的基础， 那么，那个恐惧 由于你是如此完全完整地 就好像是将这个东西捧握在手中那样 ——这需要你的「注意」， 而这种「注意」本身就可以消除掉恐惧。 我不知道你们是否理解了这一切。 |
| 55:20 Now, how can you love if you have fear? You are all frightened of your gods, aren't you? You are all asking rewards of your gods. You pray, you do puja, some rituals. All that indicates, doesn't it, I am just asking most respectfully, doesn't it indicate that you are frightened? Frightened of living, frightened of your problems, and so you are asking the gods which you have invented. Right? Do you agree to that? Your thought has invented these gods. Would you agree to that? Or you are too holy to admit such a thing? You understand? Please understand this thing for yourself, I am not dictating, we are not doing propaganda, it is your life. 56:55 And out of this fear, thought has created the most marvellous churches, cathedrals, marvellous architecturally, great beauty, great weight and strength of a building. But thought has created the cathedral, the temple, the mosque, and also thought has created all the things that are in it. The rituals, the dresses, the incense, the words, are all the result of thought, and thought is a material process, isn't it? Because memory – the cells in the brain hold memory. That is a fact, and that memory is based on knowledge and experience. So this whole movement, is a movement of matter. 58:19 So thought has invented the god, or the goddesses, gods. I believe there are over three hundred thousands gods in India, and only one or two in Europe. They are unfortunate people because you can choose any number of them, because there are so many of them. You can have a great deal of fun going from one god to another. Don't think I am sacrilegious. Those gods that thought has created are not sacred, though we worship them. | 55:20 现在来看，如果你心怀恐惧， 你又怎么能够去爱呢？ 你们都很害怕你们的神明，不是吗？ 你们都在向你们的神明要求奖励回报。 于是你们祈祷、你们做印度教礼拜、 你们履行某些宗教仪式。 而所有这一切难道不都表明了 我是很恭敬地在发问： 它们难道不都表明了你们很害怕吗？ 害怕生活， 害怕自己的各种问题， 所以你们才会去请求那些 你们所发明出来的神明。 对吧？ 你们同意这一点吗？ 你们的思想已经发明出了这些神明。 你们同意这一点吗？ 还是说你们太过于圣洁 而不愿意承认这样的事情？ 你们理解了吗？ 请你们自己去理解这件事， 我并没有在命令你们什么， 我们并没有在宣传鼓吹什么， 这是你自己的生活。 56:55 而经由这种恐惧， 思想创造出了无比美妙的小教堂、大教堂， 那些不可思议的建筑， 那种宏伟的美， 那种拥有巨大重量与力量的建筑物。 思想创造出了大教堂、 神庙和清真寺， 思想同样也创造出了 这些建筑里面的所有事物。 那些宗教仪式、那些宗教服饰、 焚香、祷文 ——所有这些东西都是思想的产物。 而「思想」是一个物质化的过程，不是吗？ 因为记忆 ——大脑的细胞中就储存着记忆。 这是一个事实， 而那种记忆是基于知识和经验的。 所以这整个运动就是一种物质的运动。 58:19 因此，思想已经发明出了「神」， 或者说是那些女神和神明。 我相信在印度有超过三十万个神， 而在欧洲却只有一两个神。 他们是不幸的民族， 因为你们印度人可以从中挑选任意数量的神， 因为你们的神实在太多了。 你们可以从一个神换到另一个神， 从中获得极大的乐趣。 请不要觉得我是在亵渎神明。 因为那些思想所创造出来的神明 并不是神圣的， 尽管我们在崇拜他们。 |
| 59:09 What is sacred is not in the temple, not in the mosque or in churches. What is sacred exists only for a mind that is free from fear, free from conflict, free from violence. But having violence, fear, anxiety, we only have multiplication of these gods. So thought and time are the same. Because to have knowledge, scientific knowledge or any kind of knowledge requires time. And time and thought are the root of fear. And time and thought are now, are in the present. And out of this arises a very serious question: whether there is a time which doesn't belong to thought or the movement known as time. Do you understand? | 59:09 神圣的东西并不在神庙里， 也不在清真寺或教堂里。 神圣之物只存在于摆脱了恐惧、 冲突和暴力的心灵中。 然而我们却有着暴力、恐惧、焦虑， 所以我们只会不断添加大量的神。 因此「思想」和「时间」是一样的东西。 因为要拥有知识， 科学知识或者任何种类的知识 ——它都需要时间。 而「时间」和「思想」则是恐惧的根源。 时间和思想就是「现在」， 它们存在于此时此刻。 从这之中就产生出了一个 非常严肃的问题： 是否存在着一种「时间」，它并不属于「思想」 或者我们所知的那种时间的运动。 你们听懂了吗？ |
| 1:00:53 So, if one has listened, not merely heard what we have talked for an hour, if you actually have listened, absorbed, as you absorb on a hot day cool drink, if you have absorbed what has been said or listened to what has been said and seen the truth of it – that very perception. And perception is not of time. I wonder if you understand this. We must also talk over briefly – it is time to stop – perception, to see. You see that tree. Do you really see the tree at all ever? Do you really ever see the beauty of a sunrise or the sunset? 1:02:07 Or you are too occupied with yourselves that you never see the beauty of the earth. When you see that tree, what takes place? The word 'tree' interferes so that you don't actually look at it. Have you noticed it? All right, come much nearer. When you say, 'It is my wife', have you ever looked at your wife? or your husband or your girlfriend or whatever you have, you look with the word, with the image, with the pictures that you have about her or him, so this acts as a barrier, you never look, so you never become sensitive. Right? | 1:00:53 所以，如果你已经聆听了 ——不只是听到，而是聆听了—— 我们在过去一小时中所讲的东西， 如果你切实地聆听了它、吸收了它， 就像你在大热天吸收了一杯清凉的饮料， 如果你已经吸收了我们刚才所说的东西， 或者聆听了我们所讲的东西 并看到了它的真实性 ——那么这种洞察本身 这种洞察是不属于「时间」的。 我想知道你们是否理解了它。 我们同样也必须简要地来谈论一下 ——到了该结束演讲的时候了—— 洞察和观察。 你看到了那棵树。 可你真的看到那棵树了吗？ 你是否真的看到过日出 或日落的「美」？ 1:02:07 还是说 你们太过专注于自己了， 以至于你们从来没有看到过 这个地球的美。 当你看着那棵树的时候， 发生了什么呢？ 那时“树”这个词语会介入进来， 所以你并没有切实地在看它。 你注意到这一点了吗？ 好吧，让我举个更贴近些的例子吧。 当你说“这是我的妻子”， 你是否真的观察过你的妻子呢？ 你是否观察过你的丈夫、女朋友， 或者无论你的什么人呢？ 你是带着文字词语、带着意象、 带着关于他（她）的画面在看那个人， 因此这便成为了一种障碍， 你从来没有真正地去看过， 所以你永远不会变得敏感。 对吧？ |
| 1:03:26 There is dirt and squalor all over Madras. You never look, do you? Or you are so accustomed to it, you put up with anything, any government, any bureaucracy, any gods, anything goes. Sir, one has to have great sensitivity, that sensitivity is not to be cultivated, it comes into being when you look at the beauty of a single star in the sky, when you see the new moon, when you see the sea. But when you only employ one or two sensory responses, that very limitation creates a narrow outlook. 1:04:33 But if you look with all your senses, at a tree, at a sky, at a cloud of an evening full of light and great beauty with all your senses, then in that observation, there is no self, the me. It is only when there is partial responses of the senses, then that very partiality, limitation, creates the me. So, fear can come to an end completely when you understand the nature of time and thought. Right. | 1:03:26 马德拉斯处处充满了肮脏和污秽之物。 你们从来没有去看一下，你们去看过它吗？ 还是说，你们已经如此习惯于它了， 以至于你们可以忍受任何事物， 任何政府、任何官僚制度、 任何神明、任何东西都能忍。 先生，我们必须要有巨大的敏感性才行， 而那种敏感是无法培养的， 它是自己出现的 ——当你看到了夜空中那颗孤星的美， 当你看到了那一轮新月， 当你看着大海。 但如果你只调动了一两种感官反应时， 这种局限性本身就会造成狭隘的视野。 1:04:33 但如果你是动用你所有的感官去看， 去看一棵树， 去看天空， 去看月光皎洁、无比美丽的夜晚的一朵云彩， 用你全部的感官去看， 那时，在那种观察中，是没有自我、没有“我”的。 只有当感官做出部分的反应时， 那时这种局部性、局限性，才会创造出那个“我”。 所以，恐惧是可以完全彻底地结束的 ——如果你了解了时间和思想的本质。 就讲到这里吧。 |
