Krishnamurti Subtitles home


NY71T2 - 你即你所想
第二次公开讲话
美国，纽约
1971年4月18日



0:25 Krishnamurti: We were considering yesterday the importance of relationship, and how we always live in the past, and to find out if it is at all possible to radically change one's way of living. 克里希那穆提（以下简称克）：我们昨天思考了 关系的重要性， 以及我们是如何一直生活在过去中的， 并且去发现究竟有没有可能 彻底地改变我们的生活方式。
1:04 And we are going to examine together the question of what is hidden in the consciousness, the deeper layers of the mind, which is generally called the unconscious. Because we are concerned with bringing about in ourselves and so in society, a radical revolution. The physical revolution, which one is advocating all over the world at the present time, doesn't bring about a fundamental change in man. 我们将会一起来检视这个问题： 即意识中隐藏的那部分内容， 头脑深处的内容， 人们通常把它称为“潜意识”。 因为我们关心的是 给我们的内心——从而也就是给这个社会，带来一场 彻底的革命。 外在物质上的革命 是目前全世界都在提倡的， 然而这种革命无法带来人类根本性的改变。
2:12 And though it is necessary that a corrupt society, such as this and Europe and in India and elsewhere, there must be fundamental changes in the very structure of society. And if man remains corrupt himself, his activity, he will overcome whatever the structure be, however perfect it be, therefore it is imperative, absolutely essential that he change. 尽管对于一个腐化的社会来说，它（物质上的革命）也是有必要的， 比如在这里，在欧洲，在印度，还有其他地方， 这些地方的社会结构必须要有一种根本性的改变。 然而如果人类仍旧在腐化他自己的话， 那么他的行动， 他将会打败任何结构 ——不管那种结构是多么的完美， 因此这是一件很紧迫的， 绝对必要的事——即人类需要改变。
3:01 And is this change to be brought about through the process of time, through gradual achievement, through gradual change, or does the change take place only in the instant? And that is what we are going to examine together. 然而，这种改变可以通过时间的过程而带来吗？ 通过渐进式的成果， 通过渐进式的改变， 还是说这种改变只能立即发生？ 这就是我们要一起来检视的东西。
3:37 One sees that there must be change in oneself. The more sensitive, the more alert and intelligent one is, one is aware that there must be a deep, abiding, living change. And the content of consciousness is consciousness, the two are not separate. What is implanted, what is in consciousness makes up consciousness. And to bring about a change in consciousness, both the obvious and the hidden, does it depend on analysis, does it depend on time, does it depend on environmental pressure, or is the change to take place totally independent of any pressure, of any strain, of any compulsion? 我们看到自己必须要有一种内在的改变。 一个人越是敏感， 越是警觉，越是聪明， 他就越能意识到必须要有一次 深刻、持久和充满活力的改变。 意识的内容就是意识， 这两者并不是分离的。 那些被植入的东西， 那些意识中的东西，它们组成了意识。 而要改变这种意识 ——既包括表面的意识，也包括深藏的意识—— 它是否要依赖于分析？ 它是否要依赖于时间？ 它是否依赖于环境的压力？ 还是说，改变的发生 根本不依赖于任何压力、 任何重负、任何强制？
5:24 You know, this is going to be rather difficult, to go into this question because it's quite complex, and I hope both of us will be able to share what is being said. I don't know quite where to begin this whole business, do you? You see, unless one goes into this matter very seriously, really taking trouble, deep interest, with a passion, I'm afraid one will not be able to go very far. Far in the sense not in time or in space but within oneself very deeply. One needs a great deal of passion, a great energy, and most of us waste our energies in conflict, and when we are examining this whole business of existence you need energy. And energy comes with the possibility of change. If there is no possibility of change then energy wastes away. 你知道，探究这个问题是很困难的， 因为它非常复杂， 而我希望我们双方 能够一起分享所说的东西。 我其实也不知道这整件事情要从哪里讲起，你们觉得呢？ 你瞧，我们需要非常认真严肃地深入这件事情， 真正花费心力， 带着极大的兴趣，带着热情去探究它， 否则的话，我恐怕我们走不了多远。 这里的“远”并不是时间或者空间意义上的， 而是指我们内心的最深处。 我们需要极大的热情 和巨大的能量， 然而我们大多数人在冲突中浪费了自己的能量， 当我们去检视这整个关于存在的问题时， 你需要能量。 而能量是伴随着改变的可能性而产生的。 要是没有改变的可能， 那么能量就会慢慢衰退。
7:24 We think we cannot possibly change, we accept things as they are and thereby become rather dispirited, depressed, and uncertain and confused. It is possible to change radically, and that is what we are going to examine. And if you will not follow exactly what the speaker is saying, but using his words and using those words as a mirror to observe yourself and enquire with passion, with interest, with vitality and a great deal of energy, then perhaps we can come to a point where it will be obvious that without any kind of effort, without any kind of motive, the radical change takes place. 我们觉得自己是不可能改变的， 我们接受了事物的老样子， 从而变得非常消沉、沮丧、 充满不确定和困惑。 根本性的改变是可能的， 而这就是我们将会来检视的东西。 如果你不去完全跟从演讲者所说的东西， 而是利用他的话语，利用这些话语来作为一面镜子 去观察你自己，并且去询问 ——带着热情，带着兴趣，带着活力， 以及巨大的能量去询问， 那么我们也许就可以达成一个共识： 很显然， 不需要任何努力， 也不需要任何动机， 根本性的改变就会自然发生。
8:58 As we were saying yesterday, there is not only the superficial knowledge of ourselves, but also there is the deep, hidden content of our consciousness. And how is one to examine that? How is one to expose the whole content of it? Is it to be done bit by bit, slowly, gradually, or is it to be exposed totally and understood instantly, and thereby the whole analytical process comes to and end? 就如我们昨天所说的。 我们不仅有着那些关于自身的肤浅表面的知识， 同样有着那些深层的、隐藏着的 意识的内容。 那么我们要如何去检视它呢？ 我们要如何揭露出它全部的内容？ 这件事是否需要一点一点，慢慢地，逐步地去完成？ 还是说完全揭露它（意识的内容）， 和了解它，是立即实现的， 从而那整个的分析的过程便停止了？
10:04 Now we're going to go into this question of analysis. To me, to the speaker, analysis is the denial of action, action being always in the present, active present. Action means not 'having done', or 'will do', but doing. Analysis prevents that active action in the present, because in analysis there is involved time, a gradual peeling off, as it were, layer after layer, and examining each layer, analysing the content of each layer. And if the analysis is not perfect, complete, true, then that analysis, being incomplete, must leave a knowledge which is not total. And the next analysis springs from that which is not complete. Are we following all this? 现在，让我们来探讨一下关于“分析”的问题。 对我来说，对演讲者来说， 分析否定了行动， 行动永远都是此时此刻的，它处于鲜活的当下之中。 行动并不是“已经做了”，或者“将会做”，而是“正在做（doing）”。 而分析阻碍了当下鲜活的行动， 因为分析之中包含了时间， 慢慢地剥去，就好像是一层一层地剥离它， 然后去检查每一层， 分析每一层的内容。 而如果那种分析不够完美、完全和真实的话， 那么那种分析就是不完整的， 它必定会留下一种 不完全的知识。 而下一个分析便是来自于这个不完整的事物的。 我们都明白这一切了吗？
12:06 Look, I examine myself, analyse myself, and if my analysis is not complete, true, then what I have analysed becomes the knowledge with which I proceed to analyse the next layer. And so, in that process each analysis becomes incomplete and leads to further conflict, and so to inaction. Shall I go on? And in analysis there is the analyser and the analysed, whether the analyser is professional, or yourself, the layman, there is this duality, the analyser analysing, analysing something which he thinks is different from himself. And the analyser, what is he? He is the past, he is the accumulated knowledge of all the things he has analysed. And with that knowledge, which is the past, he analyses the present. 瞧，我检查我自己，分析我自己， 可如果我的分析是不完整的，不真实的， 那么我分析出来的东西就会变成知识， 而我会用这种知识继续去分析下一层的内容。 因此， 在这种过程中，每一次分析都会变得不完整， 导致进一步的冲突，从而带来迟钝停滞。 我可以继续吗？ 在分析之中， 存在着分析者和被分析物， 不管那是一个专业的分析者， 还是说是你自己——一个门外汉， 都会产生二元性， 那个分析者在分析， 分析着某个他认为不同于自己的东西。 而那个分析者， 他是什么呢？ 他就是过去， 他就是他所分析的所有事物的知识的聚集体。 而他就是带着这些知识——也就是过去—— 来分析此时此刻。
14:05 So, in that process there is conflict, there is the struggle to conform or to force that which he analyses. And in analysis, there is this whole process of dreaming. I don't know if you have gone into all this yourself, or probably you have read other people's books, which is most unfortunate, because then you merely repeat what other people have said, however specialist, however famous they are. But if you don't read all those books, as the speaker doesn't because they're rather boring, then you have to investigate yourself, then it becomes much more fascinating, much more original, much more direct and true. 因此，在这个过程中就会有冲突， 我们会奋力去遵从 或者迫使自己去适合他所分析的事物。 而在分析中， 会涉及到整个做梦的过程。 我不知道你们有没有亲自去探究过所有那些关于梦的东西， 或者说，你可能已经读过了其他人的著作， 这是最不幸的事情， 因为那时你就仅仅只是在重复其他人说过的东西 ——不管那些人是多么的专业，多么的出名。 然而，如果你没有读过所有那些书籍 ——演讲者没有读过这些书籍，因为它们相当无聊—— 那么你就必须自己去探究了， 于是那些东西就会变得更吸引人， 更加具有原创性，更加直接和真实。
15:30 In the process of analysis there is this world of dreams, and we accept dreams as necessary, because the professionals have said, you must dream, otherwise you go mad, and there is some truth in that. And what are dreams? Because all this we are enquiring into, because we are trying to find out whether it is possible to change radically. When there is so much confusion, so much misery, such hatred in the world, and brutality, where there is no compassion, one must, if one is at all serious, enquire into all this. And we are enquiring not merely for intellectual entertainment but actually trying to find out if it is possible to change. And when you see the possibility of change, whatever we are, however shallow, however superficial, repetitive, imitative, if we see that there is a possibility of radical change then we have the energy to change. And if we say it is not possible, then that energy is dissipated. 在分析的过程中， 会涉及到关于梦的领域， 我们接受了做梦，认为它是必需的， 因为专家说过， 你必须要做梦，否则的话你将会疯掉， 这话还是有点道理的。 那么，梦是什么呢？ 因为我们正在探询这一切， 因为我们正试图去搞清楚 是否可能彻底地改变？ 因为这个世界有着如此多的困惑、痛苦、 仇恨和残忍， 因为这个世界没有同情， 所以我们必须——如果你是认真的——去探询这一切。 我们的探询不仅仅是为了获得一些智力上的娱乐， 而是要真正努力去发现 改变是否可能？ 而当你看到了改变的可能性时——不管你是怎样的， 是多么的浅薄，多么的肤浅， 多么的重复和模仿， 要是我们看到了彻底的改变是可能的， 我们就会有能量去做出改变。 而要是我们说改变不可能发生，那么那种能量就会消散掉了。
17:34 So we are enquiring into this question, whether analysis does produce a radical change at all, or is it merely an intellectual entertainment, an avoidance of action? As we were saying, analysis implies entering into the world of dreams. And what are dreams? How do these dreams come into being? I don't know if you have gone into this. If you have, you will see that dreams are the continuation of our daily life. What you are doing during the day, all the mischief, the corruption, the hatred, the passing pleasures, the ambitions, the guilt and so on, all that is continued in the world of dreams, only as in symbols, as pictures and images. And these pictures and images have to be interpreted, and all the fuss and the unreality of all that comes into being. 所以，我们在探询这个问题： 分析究竟能否带来一种根本性的改变？ 还是说它只不过是一种智性的娱乐， 是在逃避行动？ 就如我们说过的， 分析意味着要进入到梦的领域。 那么，梦是什么呢？ 这些梦是如何产生的？ 我不知道你们有没有研究过它？ 如果你研究过，你就会发现， 梦是一种我们日常生活的延续。 你在白天时候所做的那些事情， 所有的麻烦事，那些腐败， 那些憎恨，那些短暂的快乐， 野心、内疚等等， 所有这些都会 在梦的世界中延续， 只不过它们会表现为一些象征符号， 表现为一些画面和意象。 而这些画面和意象必须要加以解释， 于是所有那些小题大做和不切实际的东西就出现了。
19:58 One never asks why should one dream at all. One has accepted dreams as essential, as part of life. Now we are asking ourselves, if you are, with me, why you dream at all? Is it possible when you go to sleep to have a mind that is completely quiet? Because it's only in that quiet state that it renews itself, it empties itself of all its content so that it is made fresh, young, decisive, not confused. 我们从来没有问过：我们究竟为什么要做梦？ 我们已经接受了做梦，认为它是必不可少的，是生活的一部分。 而现在，我们在问自己，你和我一起问： 你究竟为什么要做梦？ 是否有可能在你要睡觉时候， 你的头脑是彻底宁静的？ 因为只有在那种宁静的状态中，头脑才能更新它自己， 它清空了自身所有的内容， 由此它变得焕然一新，变得年轻， 明确坚定，不再困惑。
21:03 And if dreams are the continuation of our daily life, of our daily turmoil, anxiety, the desire for security, the attachments, then inevitably, dreams in their symbolic form must take place. That's clear, isn't it? So, when one asks why should one dream at all, can the brain cells be quiet, not carry on all the business of the day. 而如果梦是我们日常生活的延续， 是我们每天的混乱、焦虑、 对安全的渴望、 和各种执着依赖的延续， 那么不可避免地， 梦必然会以象征符号的形式 而出现。 这是很清楚明白的，对吗？ 所以我们问： 我们究竟为什么要做梦？ 大脑的细胞能否安静下来， 不再继续携带着所有那些白天的事物。
22:07 To find that out, experimentally, not accepting what the speaker says and for goodness sake don't ever do that, please, because we're sharing together, investigating together. To find out experimentally, you can test it out by being aware totally during the day, watching your thoughts, your motives, your speech, the way you walk and talk. When you are so aware, there are the intimations of the unconscious, of the deeper layers, because then you are exposing, inviting the hidden motives, anxieties, all that, the content of the unconscious into the open. So when you do go to sleep, then you will find that your mind, including the brain, is extraordinarily quiet, it is really resting because you have finished what you have been doing during the day. 要搞清楚这一点， 就是要去试验， 而不是接受演讲者所说的东西， 看在老天爷的份上，请千万别这样做， 因为我们是在一起分享，一起探究， 就像做实验一样地去发现它， 你可以自己去试验一下它， 在白天的时候保持充分完全的觉察， 观察你的思想， 你的动机， 你的讲话， 你走路和说话的方式。 当你可以保持如此的觉察， 你就会得到那些关于潜意识和头脑深层领域的暗示， 因为那时你就是在揭露它们， 你在邀请那些隐藏的动机、 焦虑，所有这些东西， 邀请那些潜意识的内容走出来“露出真容”。 这样的话，到你真的要睡觉的时候， 你就会发现 你的头脑——包括你的大脑， 会变得无比的安静，它得到了真正的休息， 因为你已经“了结”掉了你白天所做的那些事情。
24:01 That is, I don't know if you have ever done it, if you take stock of the day as you go to bed, lie down. Don't you do this, go over the day, taking stock? Saying, I should have done this, I should not have done that, it was better said that way, I wish I hadn't said this. That is, when you take stock of the things that have happened during the day, you are trying to put order, please do pay a little attention to this, you are trying to bring about order before you go to sleep. And if you don't put order before you go to sleep, the brain tries to put order when you are asleep. Because the brain functions perfectly only in order, not in disorder. It functions most efficiently when there is complete order, whether that order is neurotic or rational. You are following all this? Because in neurosis, in imbalance, there is order, and the brain accepts that order. 也就是说，我不知道你们有没有这样做过， 你会不会在睡觉前评估盘点一天的事情 ——就在你躺下，准备睡觉的时候。 你难道不会这么做吗？重温白天的事，去盘点评估它们？ 你会说，我本应该这样做，我不应该那样做， 那样子说会更好，我希望当时我没说这话就好了。 也就是说， 当你去盘点评估白天发生过的那些事情时， 你是在试图去整理 ——请稍微集中一下注意力听一下它—— 在你睡觉之前，你试图建立起秩序。 而如果在你睡觉之前，你没有去整理一下的话， 那么大脑就会试图去整理 ——在你睡着的时候去整理。 因为大脑只有在秩序之中才能完美地运作， 而不是在混乱之中。 想要大脑无比高效地运作， 只有当有了完全的秩序时才行 ——不管那种秩序是神经质的还是理性的。 你们都明白这些东西了吗？ 因为在神经症中，在心理失衡中， 也存在着一种秩序， 而大脑接受了那种秩序。
26:10 And if you take stock of everything that has been happening during the day, before you go to sleep, then you are trying to bring about order, and therefore the brain hasn't to bring order while you are asleep, you have done it during the day. And if you bring that order every minute during the day, that is, if you are aware of everything that is happening, outwardly and inwardly. You are following? Outwardly in the sense, the disorder about you, the cruelty, the indifference, the callousness, the dirt, the squalor, the quarrels, the politicians and their chicanery, you know, all that is happening. And your relationship with your husband, wife, with your girl or boy, aware of all that during the day, without correcting it, just being aware of it. The moment you try to correct it, you are trying to bring disorder, but if you merely observe actually what is, then what is, is order. 如果你们 可以去盘点评估白天所发生过的一切事情 ——在你们睡觉之前去做这件事的话， 那么你就是在努力建立起秩序， 因此大脑就不需要在你睡着的时候去建立秩序了， 因为你已经在白天的时候完成了这件事。 而如果你在白天的每一分钟里，都在建立着这种秩序的话， 也就是说， 如果你觉察到了正在发生的一切事情 ——既包括外在的，也包括内在的。 你们跟上了吗？ 外在的事情指的就是你周围的那些混乱， 那些残忍、冷漠、麻木不仁， 那些污秽垃圾、肮脏、争吵， 那些政客以及他们的欺骗， 你知道的，所有这些发生着的事情。 还有你和你妻子或者丈夫的关系， 你和你女朋友或者男朋友的关系， 在白天的时候，去觉察所有这一切， 但不要去纠正它，只是觉察到它就可以了。 一旦当你试图去纠正它，你就会带来混乱了， 然而，如果你只是去观察实际发生的事情， 那么那个“事实现状”，它就是秩序。
27:52 It is only when you try to change what is, then there is disorder, because you want to change according to the knowledge which you have acquired. That knowledge is the past and you are trying to change what is, which is not the past, according to what you have learnt. Therefore there is a contradiction, therefore there is a distortion, therefore there is disorder. 只有当你试图去改变“事实现状”时，才会产生混乱， 因为你想要根据知识来改变它 ——那些你已经获得的知识。 那种知识就是过去， 而你正试图去改变“事实现状” ——根据你已经学到的东西来改变这个并非过去的事物。 由此就会有一种矛盾冲突，一种扭曲， 所以混乱便产生了。
28:31 I hope you are working as hard as the speaker is. May I take my coat off? 我希望你正在像演讲者一样地勤奋工作着。 我可以脱掉外套吗？
29:02 So, during the day, if you are aware of the ways of your thought, your motives, the hypocrisy, the double talk, doing one thing, saying another, thinking another, the deception, the masks that you put on, the varieties of deceptions that one has so readily at hand, if one is aware of all that during the day, you don't have to take stock at all when you go to sleep, you are bringing order each minute. So when you do go to sleep you will find that your brain cells, which have recorded and which hold the past become totally quiet, and your sleep then becomes something entirely different. In that sleep, the mind, when we use the word the mind, we are including in that the brain, the whole nervous organism, the affections, all the human structure is the mind. When we use that word, we mean all that, not something separate. In that is included the intellect, the heart, the whole nervous organism. When you go to sleep then, the analytical process has totally come to an end. Then when you wake up you see things exactly as they are, not your interpretation of them or the desire to change them. 所以，在白天的时候，如果你觉察到了 你思想的各种活动， 你的种种动机， 那些虚伪、那些口是心非， 说的是一套，想的是一套，做的又是另一套， 那些欺骗，那些你戴着的面具， 各种 我们如此得心应手的欺诈， 要是我们在白天的时候觉察到了所有这些， 那么你就根本不需要在睡觉的时候去盘点评估它们了， 因为（白天的时候），你每一分钟都在建立着秩序。 所以当你睡觉的时候， 你就会发现你的大脑细胞 ——这些大脑细胞已经记录了过去并且紧抓着它不放—— 会变得彻底安静， 那时你的睡眠 就会变成某种截然不同的东西。 在那种睡眠中， 头脑——当我们使用头脑这个词， 我们指的是那个大脑， 那整个神经的有机组织， 那些情感， 所有的人类的结构——这就是头脑的含义。 当我们使用这个词的时候，我们指的是所有这些东西， 而不是某个分离单独的事物。 头脑包含了智力、心灵， 整个的神经有机组织， 那时，当你睡觉以后， 那种分析的过程就会完全停止了。 于是当你醒来之后， 你就会完全如实地去看待事物， 你不会再去解释它们，也不会再渴望去改变它们。
31:59 So analysis, to the speaker, prevents action. And action is absolutely essential, now, in order to bring about this radical change. So analysis is not the way. Don't accept, please, what the speaker is saying, but observe it for yourself, learn about it, not from me, but learn by watching all the implications of analysis: time, the analyser and the analysed, the analyser is the analysed and each analysis must be complete otherwise it distorts the next analysis. So seeing the whole process of analysis, whether it is introspective or intellectual analysis, is totally wrong. It is not the way out. It maybe necessary for those who are somewhat or greatly unbalanced, and perhaps most of us are unbalanced. So, that's not the way out. 因此，对于演讲者来说，分析 阻碍了行动。 而行动是绝对必要的， 所以现在， 我们要带来这种根本性的改变， 而分析并不是我们的出路。 请不要接受演讲者所说的东西， 而是亲自去观察它， 去学习它， 不是从我这里学习，而是通过观察去学习 分析中所蕴含着的一切东西： 时间， 分析者与被分析物， 那个分析者就是被分析物， 而每一次分析都必须是完整的， 否则的话，它就会扭曲下一次的分析。 所以，在看到了这整个的分析过程以后 ——不管它是内省式的分析，还是智力上的分析， 它都是完全错误的。 它并不是出路。 对于稍微有点精神错乱或严重精神错乱的人来说，它（分析）或许是有必要的， 而也许我们大多数人都是精神错乱的。 所以，分析并不是我们的出路。
33:56 So we must find a way of observing the whole content of consciousness without the analyser. You are following this? You know, this is great fun if you go into this, because you have then rejected totally everything that man has said. No, please, don't laugh. Because then you stand alone, then you find out for yourself. It will be authentic, real, true, not dependent on any professor, any psychologist, any analyst, and so on, so on. 因此，我们必须要找到一种方法， 来观察 意识的全部内容 ——但并没有那个分析者。 你们明白了吗？ 注意，要是你去探究它的话，这会变得很有趣， 因为那时你就会彻底拒绝 人们所说的一切东西。 不，请你们不要笑。 因为那时你就是独自一人， 那时你就会自己去发现。 那种发现将会是真实、可信和正确的， 它不依赖于任何教授、心理学家和精神分析医师， 等等这些人。
35:01 So one must find a way of observing without analysis. I'm going to go into that. I hope you don't mind my doing all this, do you? 所以，我们必须找到一种无需分析的观察方法。 我将会来探讨这一点。 我希望你们不介意我来做这些事，你们会吗？
35:22 Audience: No. 听众：我们不介意。
35:24 K: This is not a group therapy. This is not an open confessional. This is not that the speaker is analysing you or making you change or you becoming marvellous human beings, you have to do this yourself. And as most of us are second-hand or third-hand human beings, it is going to be very difficult to put away totally all that has been imposed on our minds by the professionals, whether religious professionals or the scientific professionals. We have to find out for ourselves. 克：这并不是一次集体心理治疗。 这不是一次公开的忏悔活动。 演讲者并不是要分析你们或者改变你们， 或者让你们变成了不起的人类， 你必须自己来做这件事， 而由于我们大多数人都是“二手人类”或者“三手人类”， 所以我们很难 完全丢弃掉 所有那些强加于我们头脑的东西——它们是那些专家强加给我们的， 不管是宗教上的专家，还是科学上的专家。 我们必须要自己去发现这一点。
36:22 And if analysis is not the way, and it is not, as far as the speaker is concerned, because he has logically explained it, then how is one to examine or to observe the total content of consciousness? And what is the total content? What is the content of consciousness? Please don't repeat what somebody else has said. What is your total content? Have you ever looked at it, have you ever considered it? If you have, is it not the various recorded incidents, happenings, pleasurable and non-pleasurable, various beliefs, traditions, the various individual recollections, memories, and the racial, family memories, the culture in which one has been brought up, all that is the content, isn't it? Being born in India as a Hindu, Brahmin and so on, with all its traditions and superstitions, with its dogmatism, beliefs, all that culture of thousands of years is stored up. And the incidents that take place every day, the memories, the various pains, the unhappiness, the incidents, the insults, all that is recorded. And the content of all that is my consciousness, as your consciousness. You as a Catholic, Protestant, living in this Western world with the search for more and more and more, the world of great pleasure, entertainment, wealth, incessant noise of the television, the pictures, the brutality, all that is you, that's your content. 要是分析不是出路， ——对演讲者来说，它的确不是出路—— 这一点演讲者已经从逻辑上解释过了， 那么我们要如何 去检视或者观察 意识的全部内容呢？ 而全部的内容是什么呢？ 意识的内容是什么呢？ 请不要去重复别人说过的东西。 你意识的全部内容是什么？ 你是否观察过它，你是否细想过它？ 如果你曾经这样做过，它难道不就是 各种被记录下来的事情 和事件吗？ 快乐的事和不快乐的事， 各种信仰， 传统， 不同个体的 回忆和记忆， 种族和家族的记忆， 那种我们在其中被培养长大的文化， 所有这些就是意识的内容，不是吗？ 你出生在印度，是一个印度教徒， 或者婆罗门，等等， 带着所有与之相关的传统、迷信、 教条主义、信仰， 数千年积累起来的所有的文化。 还有各种事件， 每天发生的各种事件，那些记忆， 各种各样的痛苦， 不快乐，各种事情，那些侮辱， 所有这些都被记录了下来。 而所有这些东西的内容就是我的意识， 它也是你的意识。 你是一个天主教徒或者新教徒，生活在这个西方世界中， 西方世界总是在追求着更多、更多、更多， 西方世界充满着巨大的快感， 娱乐， 财富， 电视机里永不停息的噪音， 那些画面，那些残忍， 所有这些就是你，它们就是你意识的内容。
40:25 How is all that to be exposed, and in the exposing of it, is each incident to be examined, each happening, each tradition, each hurt, each pain, one by one, or is it to be looked at totally? You are following all this? If it is to be examined bit by bit, one by one, you are entering into the world of analysis, and then there is no end to that, you will die analysing, and giving a great deal of money to those who analyse, if that's your pleasure. Or is it to be looked at totally? 那么所有这些东西要如何才能曝光出来呢？ 在曝光它的过程中， 我们是不是需要去检视每一件事情， 每一个事件，每一个传统， 每一次伤害或痛苦呢？ 一个一个地去检视，还是说我们要整体地去看它？ 你们跟上这些话了吗？ 如果你是一点一点地，一个一个地去检视它的话， 那么你就进入了分析的世界， 然后分析就会永无尽头，你会至死都还在分析着， 你会付给那些分析师大笔的钱 ——如果你乐意的话。 还是说我们需要整体地去看它？
41:40 We're going to find out how to look at these various fragments, which are the contents of consciousness, totally, not analytically. We are communicating with each other? 我们将会来搞清楚要如何去观察这些不同的碎片 ——这些碎片就是意识的内容—— 如何整体地观察它们，而不是通过分析的方式。 我们是在彼此交流着吗？
42:03 A: Yes. 听众：是的。
42:08 K: So we are going to find out how to observe in which there is no analysis at all. That is, we have looked at everything, at the tree, at the cloud, at your wife and your husband, the girl or the boy, everything as an observer and the observed. Right? Please do give a little attention to this. You have observed your anger, your greed or your jealousy, whatever it is, as an observer looking at greed. The observer is greed, but you have separated the observer because your mind is conditioned to the analytical process, therefore you are always looking at the tree, at the cloud, at everything in life as an observer and the thing observed. Have you noticed it? You look at your wife through the image which you have of her. That image is the observer, that image is the past, that image has been put together through time. And the observer is the time, is the past, is the accumulated knowledge of the various incidents and accidents and happenings, experiences and so on, that observer is the past, and he looks at the thing observed as though he was not of it, but separate from it. 克：所以我们将会来发现要如何去观察 而没有任何分析。 也就是说，当我们观察任何事物时——不管是树木、云朵、 还是你的妻子、你的丈夫、你的女朋友或者男朋友—— 观察中都会有观察者与被观察物。 对吗？ 请稍微集中一下注意力听好。 你观察了自己的愤怒、 贪婪、嫉妒，或者无论什么， 你是作为一个观察者在观察着那个贪婪。 然而观察者本身就是那个贪婪， 但是你已经把观察者分离出来了， 因为你的头脑习惯于那种分析的过程， 因此，一直以来，你观察树木、云朵， 以及生活中的一切，其中都有着一个观察者和那个被观察物。 你是否注意到了这一点？ 你看着你的妻子， 你是通过你所持有的关于她的形象在看她。 而那个形象就是观察者， 那个形象就是过去， 那个形象是经由时间而被拼凑起来的。 而那个观察者就是时间， 就是过去， 他就是各种事件、意外、 事情、经历等等所积累起来的知识， 那个观察者就是过去， 而他看着那个被观察物， 就好像他并不属于它，而是与之分离的一样。
44:42 Now, can you look without the observer? That is, can you look at the tree - please listen to this - can you look at the tree without the past as the observer? That is, when there is the observer then there is space between the observer and the observed, the tree. That space is time, because there is a distance. That time is the quality of the observer, who is the past, who is the accumulated knowledge, who says, that is the tree, or that is the image of my wife. Now, can you observe without the observer? 那么，你可以去看而没有那个观察者吗？ 也就是说，你能够看着那棵树 ——请听好—— 你能否不带着过去——也就是观察者——去观察那棵树？ 也就是说，当有了观察者时， 观察者与被观察物 ——也就是那棵树之间——就会有空间存在。 那个空间就是时间， 因为两者之间存在一段距离。 时间就是观察者的特质， 观察者就是过去， 观察者就是那些积累起来的知识， 他在说，这是一棵树， 或者我妻子的形象就是那样的。 那么现在，你能否去观察而没有一个观察者？
46:10 That is, can you look, not only at the tree but your wife or your husband, without the image? This requires tremendous discipline. I am going to show you something, which is, discipline implies generally a conformity, a drill, imitation, conflict between what is and what should be. And so in discipline there is conflict: suppressing, overcoming, the exercise of will and so on, all that is implied in that word. But that word means to learn, not to conform, not to suppress, but to learn. And the quality of the mind that learns has its own order, which is discipline. We are learning now to observe without the observer, without the past, without the image. When you so observe the 'what is,' the actually what is, is a living thing, not a thing looked upon as a dead thing, as recognisable by the past event, by the past knowledge. 也就是说，你能否去看 那棵树，去看你的妻子或丈夫， 而不带有任何形象？ 这需要极大的自律（discipline）。 我想要告诉你们的是 “自律”这个词通常意味着 一种遵从， 一种训练， 模仿， 冲突 ——真实模样和“应该怎样”之间的冲突。 所以在自律中会有冲突： 你会去压抑、克制、运用意志力等等， 所有这些都隐含在这个词语中。 然而这个词语的意思是“去学习”， 不是去遵从， 去压抑， 而是去学习。 而那个在学习的头脑所具有的品质 会带来它自身的秩序——也就是自律。 我们现在正在学习如何去观察而不带有观察者， 不带有过去和形象。 你要这样子去观察那个“事实（what is）”， 那个“真实现状”，它是一个鲜活之物， 而不是一个被你视为静止不变的事物， 一个通过过去的事件 和过去的知识来认知的事物。
48:33 Let's make it much simpler than this. You say something to me which hurts me and that hurt, the pain of that hurt is recorded. That memory of that continues and when there is a further pain it is recorded again. So, the hurt is being strengthened from childhood on. Whereas when there is pain, you say something which is painful to me, to observe it so completely that it is not recorded as a hurt. You are following? The moment you record it as a hurt, that recording is continued, and for the rest of your life you are being hurt, because you are adding to that hurt. Whereas if you observe the pain, and to observe the pain so completely without recording it, is to give your total attention at the moment of the pain. Are you doing all this? 让我们把它解释得更简单些吧。 你对我说了一些话，这些话伤害了我， 而这种伤害，以及伤害所造成的痛苦，被记录了下来。 这个记忆将会延续下去， 然后当有了更深的痛苦时， 这种痛苦会再次被记录下来。 所以，伤害从小开始就一直在被不断地加强。 然而，如果在你痛苦的时候 ——因为你说了一些让我感到痛苦的话—— 你可以如此完整地去观察它的话，那么它就不会作为一种伤害而被记录下来了。 你们明白了吗？ 当你把它作为一种伤害而记录下来时， 那种记录就会延续下去， 然后在你生命剩下的岁月里，你都会受到伤害， 因为你在为那种伤害添砖加瓦。 然而，如果你可以去观察那种痛苦， 如此完整地观察那种痛苦而不去记录它， 也就是在痛苦的时刻，去全神贯注于它（痛苦）。 你们正在这样做吗？
50:50 Look, when you go out for a walk, when you walk in these streets there is all kinds of noise, all kinds of shouting, the vulgarity, the brutality, this pouring in the noise, that is very destructive. The more sensitive you are the more destructive it becomes, it hurts your organism. And you resist the hurt and therefore you build a wall. And when you build a wall you are isolating yourself, and therefore you are strengthening the isolation, which you will get more and more hurt, whereas if you are observing that noise, being attentive to that noise, then you will see that your organism is never hurt. 瞧，你外出去散步， 当你走在街上时，你会听到各种噪音， 各种叫喊声， 那些粗俗的话语，那些粗暴的话语， 这些噪音倾泻而来，它们具有很大的破坏性。 你越是敏感，它就会变得越具有破坏性， 它会伤害你的机体。 而你会去抵抗那种伤害， 于是你建造了一堵围墙。 而当你建造起一堵围墙时，你就是在孤立你自己， 因此你增强了那种孤立， 而这将会让你受到更多的伤害， 然而，如果你是在观察那种噪音， 去留心注意那种噪音， 那么你就会发现你的机体永远不会受伤。
52:12 Please, if you understand this one radical principle you will have understood something immense, that where there is an observer separating himself from the thing he observes, there must be conflict. Do what you will, as long as there is a division between the observer and the observed there must be conflict. As long as there is division. As long as there is a division between the Muslim and the Hindu there must be conflict. As long as there is a division between the Catholic and the Protestant there must be conflict. You may tolerate each other, which is an intellectual covering of intolerance. As long as there is division between the black and the white and the purple and the blue and the yellow and the black, there must be conflict. 请注意，要是你能理解这个根本性的原则， 你就可以明白某种更为巨大的事物了， 只要还是存在着一个观察者 ——这个观察者把自己和他所观察的东西分开—— 那么就必然会有冲突。 无论你做什么，只要还是存在着这种 观察者和被观察物之间的分裂，那么就必然会有冲突。 只要还是有分裂。 只要还是有着穆斯林和印度教徒的区分， 就一定会有冲突。 只要还是有着天主教徒和新教徒之间的区分， 就必然会有冲突。 你们也许会彼此容忍， 然而这只是你们在用智力来掩盖那种不容忍罢了。 只要你们还是在区分黑人与白人， 区分紫色皮肤的人和蓝色皮肤的人，区分黄色皮肤的人和黑色皮肤的人， 那么就必然会有冲突。
53:28 As long as there is division between you and your wife there must be conflict. This division exists fundamentally, basically, as long as there is the observer separate from the thing observed. As long as I say, anger is different from me, I must control anger, I must change anger, I must control my thought, I must change, do this, that, in that there is division, therefore there is conflict. Conflict implies suppression, conformity, imitation, all that is involved in that. If you really see the beauty of this, that the observer is the observed, the two are not separate, then you can observe the totality of consciousness without analysis. Then you see the whole content of it instantly. 只要你和你妻子之间还是存在区分， 那就一定会有冲突。 这种区分会从根本上，源头上存在 ——只要还是有着一个与被观察物分离的观察者。 只要我还是说，愤怒和我是不同的事物， 我必须要控制愤怒，我必须要改变愤怒， 我必须控制我的思想，我必须要有所改变，做这个，做那个的话， 那么在这之中就会有分裂，从而便会产生冲突。 冲突就暗示着压抑、遵从、模仿， 所有这些都包含在其中。 如果你真的看到了它的美丽 ——即观察者就是被观之物， 这两者并不是分离的—— 那么你就可以去观察意识的全部内容而没有任何分析了。 那时你就会立即看到它的全部内容了。
55:14 That is, the observer is the thinker. And we have given such tremendous importance to the thinker, haven't we? We live by thought, we do things by thought, we plan our life by thought, our action is motivated by thought. And thought is worshipped throughout the world as the most extraordinarily important thing, which is part of the intellect. 也就是说，观察者就是那个思考者。 而我们已经赋予了思考者如此巨大的重要性， 不是吗？ 我们依靠思想而生活， 我们依靠思想来做事情， 我们用思想来计划我们的生活， 我们的行为都是由思想所激发推动的。 全世界都在崇拜着思想， 认为它是最最重要的东西， 而思想就是智性的一部分。
56:26 And thought - again, please follow this a little bit - thought has separated itself as the thinker. The thinker says, these thoughts are no good, these are better. He says, this ideal is better than that ideal, this belief is better than that belief. It is all the product of thought, thought which has made itself separate, fragmented itself as the thinker, as the experiencer. Thought has separated itself as the higher self and the lower self. In India they call it the atman, the higher, here you call it the soul, or this or that, but it is still thought in operation. That's clear, isn't it? This is logical, it is not irrational. 而思想——请你们再次跟上我的节奏—— 思想已经把自己分离了出来，而成为了“思考者”。 这个思考者说，这些思想是不好的，而那些思想更好。 他说，这个理想要比那个理想更好， 这个信仰要比那个信仰更好。 然而这一切都是思想的产物， 思想把自己分离了出来， 它让自己成为了一个碎片，这个碎片就是“思考者”，就是“经验者”。 思想把它自己分裂为了“大我”和“小我”。 在印度，人们把那个“大我”称之为阿特曼（atman）， 而在这里，你们把它称为“灵魂”，或者其他什么东西。 但那仍旧是思想的运作。 这是很清楚的，对吗？ 这是合乎逻辑的，它并不是什么非理性的东西。
57:43 Now I am going to show you the irrationality of it. We have lived, all our books and all our literature, everything is this, thought. And our relationship is based on thought, just think of it. My wife - I haven't got one - my wife is the image which I have created by thinking. That thinking has been put together by nagging, you know all the things that go on between husband and wife, the pleasure, the sex, the irritations, the exclusions, all that goes on, all the separative instincts that go on. And our thought is the result of our relationship. And what is thought? If you were asked that question, what is thought? Please don't repeat somebody else, find out for yourself. What is thought? Surely thought is the response of memory. Memory as knowledge, memory as experience which has been accumulated, stored up in the brain cells. So the brain cells themselves are the cells of memory. If you didn't think at all, you would be in a state of amnesia, you wouldn't be able to go to your house. 但现在，我要向你们展示一下它的非理性之处。 我们的生活，我们所有的书籍，所有的文献著作， 所有的东西都是思想。 而我们的关系也是建立在思想之上的，你只需要去想一想（就会明白了）。 我的妻子——我本人并没有妻子—— 我的妻子就是我的思想所创造出来的形象。 我对妻子的想法是由各种事件所拼凑起来的，比如她的唠叨 你们都知道丈夫和妻子之间所发生的那些事情： 快感、性、恼怒、排斥， 所有这些都在发生着， 所有这些分离倾向的本能都在持续着。 而我们的思想 就是我们关系的产物。 而思想是什么呢？ 如果有人问你这个问题：思想是什么？ 请不要去重复别人说过的话， 而是自己去发现。 什么是思想？ 毫无疑问，思想就是记忆的反应。 那种作为知识的记忆， 那种作为经验的记忆——它们被积累起来， 储藏在了大脑细胞中。 所以，脑细胞本身就是储存记忆的细胞。 要是你完全没有思想活动，你就会处于一种失忆的状态中， 你将无法回到自己的家。
1:00:26 So, thought is the response of the accumulated memory as knowledge, experience, whether it is yours or the inherited or the communal and so on. So thought is the response of the past, which may project itself into the future, but it is still the past going through the present, modifying it as the future. But it's still the past. Bene? Shall I go on? So, thought is never free. How can it be? It can imagine what is freedom, it can idealise what freedom should be, create a utopia of freedom, but thought itself, in itself, is of the past and therefore it is not free and it is always old. Right? Please, it's not a question of your agreeing with the speaker - that's a fact. And thought organises our life, based on the past. And that thought, based on the past, projects what should be tomorrow, and so there is conflict. 因此，思想就是那些积累起来的记忆的反应 ——那种记忆已经化为了知识和经验—— 不管那是你自己的知识和经验，还是遗传下来的，还是人类所共有的，等等。 所以，思想就是过去的反应， 它也许会把自己投射到未来， 但它仍旧是那个过去，这个过去穿越了现在， 然后将自己加以改造，而变成了未来。可是它仍旧是那个过去。 没问题吧？我可以继续吗？ 因此，思想永远不会有自由。 它怎么可能自由呢？ 它可以去想象自由是什么， 它可以把自由理想化，认为它应该怎样怎样， 创造出一个关于自由的乌托邦， 然而思想本身，思想本质上来说，仍旧是属于过去的， 因此它并不是自由的，它一直都是旧的。 对吗？ 请注意，这并不是一个你是否同意演讲者的问题 ——这是一个事实。 思想组织安排了我们的生活， 思想是建立在过去之上的。 而那种基于过去的思想，投射出了“明天应该怎样”的概念， 于是便有了冲突。
1:02:43 From that arises a question, which is, for most of us thought has given a great deal of pleasure. Right? Pleasure is a guiding principle in our life. We are not saying that it's wrong or right, we are examining it. Pleasure is the thing that we want most - here in this world, in the spiritual world, in the world of heaven, if you have a heaven - pleasure. Pleasure in any form: religious entertainment, going to Mass, all the circus that goes on in the name of religion, and the pleasure of any incident, whether it is of a sunset, sexual, or any sensory pleasure, is recorded and thought over. Right? So thought as pleasure plays a tremendous part in our life. Something happened yesterday which was a lovely thing, a most happy thing, it's recorded, thought comes upon it, chews it and keeps on thinking about it and wants it to be repeated again tomorrow, sexual or otherwise. And so thought gives vitality to an incident that is over. I hope you are following all this. 从这之中就出现了一个问题， 那就是，对我们大多数人来说， 思想给予了我们大量的快感。 对吗？ 快感就是指导我们生活的原则。 我们并没有在说快感是错的还是对的， 我们只是在检视它。 快感就是我们最想要的东西 ——不管是在这个现实世界中，在精神的世界中， 还是天堂的世界中——如果你们有这个概念的话——我们都渴望快感。 任何形式的快感： 包括宗教的娱乐， 去做弥撒，所有那些以宗教的名义而进行的闹剧， 也包括任何事情所带来的快感， 不管是欣赏日落的快感，性快感， 还是任何感官上的快感， 我们都会把它记录下来，然后在脑海中细细品味它。 对吗？ 所以思想作为一种快感，它在我们生活中扮演着无比重要的角色。 昨天发生了某件事情， 那是一件令人愉快的事情，一件让人非常高兴的事情， 于是它被记录了下来， 思想遇见了它，它咀嚼回味它，不断地回想它， 想要明天再次重复它， 不管是性的快乐还是其他什么快乐。 于是思想让那件已经结束的事情焕发了活力。 我希望你们都明白了这些。
1:05:16 And so, the very process of recording is knowledge, which is the past. And thought is the past. So, the thought as pleasure is sustained. And if you have noticed, pleasure is always in the past, or the imagined pleasure of tomorrow is still the recollection projected into the future - the past. 因此，记录的过程本身 就是知识，也就是过去。 而思想就是过去。 所以，那种作为快感的思想被加以维持。 而要是你曾经注意过的话，快感总是属于过去的， 而那种想象中的明日的快感， 它也只是回忆被投射到了未来之中——它仍旧是过去。
1:06:06 And also you can also observe that where there is pleasure and the pursuit of pleasure, there is also the nourishing of fear. Haven't you noticed it? Fear of the thing I have done yesterday, fear of the pain which I had, physical pain, a week ago. Thinking about it sustains the fear. There is no ending of that pain. When it's over it is finished, but I carry it over by thinking about it. 而你也可以观察到，那就是当有了快感， 以及对快感的追求， 就会滋生恐惧。 你难道没有注意到它吗？ 害怕我昨天做过的事情， 害怕我曾经遭受过的痛苦 ——比如一个星期前，我所遭受过的身体上的痛苦。 我会去回想它，从而维持延续了那恐惧。 于是那种痛苦就变得永无止境了。 当那种痛苦停止时，它其实就已经结束了， 然而我却通过回想它，使之继续存在下去了。
1:07:10 So, thought sustains and gives nourishment to pleasure as well as to fear. Right? Thought is responsible for this. I had pleasure yesterday and I want it repeated again tomorrow. I have done something, or I had pain, physical pain, and I mustn't have it again, it's too awful. I think about it. Fear not only of the present, of the future, fear of death, fear of the unknown - oh, so many fears - fear of not fulfilling, fear of not being loved, wanting to be loved, all the machinery of thought. So there is the rationality of thought and the irrationality of thought. Are you following? 所以，思想维持并且滋养了快感， 同样也维持滋养了恐惧。 对吗？ 思想需要对此负责， 我昨天很快乐， 而我想要在明天的时候，再次重复这种快乐。 我做了一些事情，或者我遭受了痛苦， 某种身体上的痛苦， 而我绝不能再遭受这种痛苦了，它太可怕了。 我在回想它。 我害怕现在，害怕未来， 害怕死亡，害怕未知 ——噢，如此多的恐惧—— 害怕无法实现个人抱负， 害怕没有人来爱自己，想要为人所爱， 这些都是思想的机械化运作。 所以，思想有它理性的一面， 也有它不理性的一面。 你们跟上了吗？
1:08:33 There must be exercise of thought in doing things, technologically, in the office, when you cook, when you wash dishes, knowledge must function perfectly. There is the rationality, the logic of thought in action, in doing. But also thought becomes totally irrational when it sustains as pleasure or fear. And yet thought says, I cannot let go of my pleasures, and yet thought knows, if it is at all sensitive, aware, that there is pain coming with it. 我们做事情必须要使用思想， 比如技术上的事情，办公室的事情， 当你做饭菜的时候，当你洗盘子的时候， 这时就需要知识的完美运作。 思想有其理性与逻辑的一面， 它体现在行动中，体现在做事中。 然而思想有时也会变得完全失去理性， 它会去维持延续快感或者恐惧。 然而，思想却还是说，我不能放弃我的快感， 可是，如果思想真的是敏感的，有所觉知的话，它就会知道， 痛苦也会伴随着快感而来。
1:09:33 So, to be aware of all the machinery of thought, the complicated, subtle movement of thought. And this is not difficult. It really is not at all difficult once you say, I must find out a way of living that is totally different, a way of life in which there is no conflict. If that is the real demand, as your demand for pleasure, if that is your insistent, passionate demand, to live a life, inwardly and outwardly, in which there is no conflict whatsoever, then you will see the possibility of it. Because we have explained conflict exists only when there is division, between the me and the not me, when I am a Hindu and you are a Christian, communist, socialist, the racket that goes on in this world. Then if you see that, not verbally or intellectually because that's not seeing, but when you actually realise that there is no division between the observer and the observed, between the thinker and the thought, then you see, observe actually what is. And then when you see actually what is, you have already gone beyond it, you don't stay with what is. You stay with what is only when the observer is different from the what is. You are getting this? A moment, sir. I don't know what the time is, we'll ask. 所以，要去觉察到思想所有机械化的运作， 思想那复杂的、微妙的运动。 这并不是一件很难的事情。 它真的一点都不难——只要你说： 我必须要找到一种截然不同的生活方式， 一种在其中没有任何冲突的生活方式。 要是它是你真正的诉求， 就像你对快感的需求一样， 要是它成了你迫切的、强烈的要求 ——即你想要去过这样的生活，在这种生活中，无论是内在还是外在， 你都没有任何的冲突—— 那么，你就会看到它（截然不同的生活）是可能的。 因为我们已经解释过了， 冲突之所以存在，是因为有分裂 ——我和“非我”事物之间的分裂， 我是印度教徒，而你是一个基督教徒， 一个共产主义者，或者社会主义者， 这些喧哗吵闹正在这个世界上发生着。 如果你看到了这一点， 不是口头上或者思想上——因为这并不是看见， 而是当你真正地意识到 观察者和被观察物之间， 思想者与思想之间并无区分的时候， 那么你就会看到，真正地观察到“事实现状”了。 而当你真正地看到了事实， 那么你就已经超越了它， 你不会和事实待在一起了。 你之所以和事实待在一起 是因为观察者不同于那个事实。 你们明白它了吗？ 稍微等一下，先生。 我不知道现在几点了，待会儿会有问答环节的。
1:12:21 But just see this. It's rather complex, but quite simple really. 你们只需要去看一下它。 它看起来相当复杂，但其实是很简单的。
1:12:27 A: Could you repeat the last part again? 听众：你能不能把刚才说的最后一段话重复一下？
1:12:32 K: Could I repeat the last part again. I don't know what I said. Please don't laugh. I'm not putting this on. I've really forgotten what I said. I'll repeat it differently. I'll say it differently. We have divided life as the me and the not me, we and they, geographically, nationally, religiously, family, division. This division takes place inevitably, basically, as long as there is the observer different from the thing observed. When I look at myself as an observer different from the thing observed, then 'what is' I want to change, I want to suppress it, I want to get over it, make it conform to what I think should be, the ideal which I have projected as the observer. In that there is conflict, but to observe actually what is without the observer, which is the past, which is time, all that, when you so observe actually what is, the what is has undergone a tremendous change, because it's no longer what is, what you thought what is, it is something totally new. I'll show it to you in a minute. Need I give examples? I'm not good at giving examples. You see this, don't you? We understand each other? 克：我能不能再重复一下最后说的那段话。 我不知道我刚才说了什么。 请不要笑。我没有骗你们。 我是真的忘记了我刚才说的东西。让我换个方式再来重复一下它吧。 我会换种方式来阐释它。 我们已经将生活划分为了我和“非我”的事物， 我们和“他们”， 地域上的划分，国家的划分，宗教的划分，家庭的划分， 我们有着这些分裂。 从根本上来说，这些分裂的产生是必然的， 因为存在着一个不同于被观察物的观察者。 如果我把自己视为 一个不同于被观察物的观察者， 那么我就会想要去改变我所观察到的“事实现状”， 我想要去压抑它，我想要去克服它， 让它去符合于我对它的期望， 符合于我所投射出来的，那个化为“观察者”的理想。 在这之中就会有冲突， 但要是你如实地去观察那个“事实现状”而没有一个观察者的话 ——观察者就是过去，就是时间，等等这些东西， 如果你可以这样如实地去观察事实现状， 那么那个事实现状就会经历一次巨大的改变， 因为它不再是“事实现状”了，不再是你所认为的那个事实了， 它成了某种完全崭新的事物。 我马上就来向你们阐明它。 需要我举个例子吗？我并不是很擅长举例子。 你们也发现了这点，对吗？ 我们是否彼此理解了对方？
1:14:54 Q: May I ask a question? 问：我可以问个问题吗？
1:14:58 K: Let me finish and then you can ask. I don't know what time it is. What we have talked about this evening is, very simply, how to totally eliminate in oneself, every form of conflict. It is only then you know what love is, and this can only take place when you can observe the total content of yourself, non-analytically. Analysis must come into being when there is an observer, a thinker who is analysing. But the thinker, the analyser, the observer, is the analysed, is the thing that he is going to analyse, is the thought. So when there is this complete cessation of division between the observer and the observed, then what is, is no longer what is, you have gone beyond, the mind has gone beyond it. Now proceed, what's the question? What was the question? 克：先让我讲完，然后你就可以问了。 我不知道现在几点了。 我们今晚所谈的东西是非常简单的， 那就是如何彻底消除我们身上的 每一种冲突。 那只有当你知晓了什么是爱的时候才可能， 而要它发生， 你必须要能够观察你自身的全部内容， 但不是通过分析。 当有了一个观察者， 一个在分析的思考者时，分析就必然会出现。 然而那个思考者、分析者和观察者，他就是被分析物， 就是他要去分析的那个东西， 就是思想。 因此，当这种 观察者与被观察物之间的分裂彻底消除后， 那么事实就不再是那个“事实”了， 你已经超越了它，心灵已经超越了它。 好了，现在开始吧，你有什么问题？ 你的问题是什么？
1:16:33 Questioner: I think I follow what you're saying about the separation between the observer and the observed. I was wondering, what do I do when I get up in the morning, realising that I observe, and there is the object that I observe - I am the observer and there's the object that I observe - what do I do to change this? Basically I can understand what you are saying but I don't know what to do. 提问者：我想我明白了你所说的东西 ——关于观察者与被观察物之间的分隔。 我想知道，当我遇到以下情况时，我该怎么做？那就是当我早晨起来， 我意识到我在观察， 有着一个我在观察的对象 ——我是那个观察者，并且也存在着那个我在观察的对象—— 那么我要怎么做才能改变这一切呢？ 我大致上可以明白你所说的东西， 但我不知道该怎么做。
1:17:02 K: I understand the question, is this what you're saying: I wake up in the morning, tired, exhausted - I don't know why you laugh - lazy, and I observe. And I don't want to get up and do all the routine. What am I to do? Is that the question? 克：我明白你的问题了，你是不是在说： 我在早上醒来， 感到很疲惫，精疲力尽 ——我不知道你们为什么会笑—— 我感到很懒散，我在观察。 我不想起来，去做所有那些例行公事的事情。 所以我该怎么做？是这个问题吗？
1:17:39 Q: That is not exactly the way that I necessarily feel when I wake up in the morning. I see the separation between wanting to observe the object and yet being identified with the situation. I do not know how, I don't understand how do I change this phenomenon of the observer and the observed? Can't I change it? I can't just agree with you and say, yes this is true. Somehow I have to do something. 提问者：我的感觉并不完全是这样的 我早上醒来并不是这种感觉。 而是我看到了这种分隔：一方面想要去观察那个对象， 另一方面，又要去认同于那个（观察的）情况。 我不知道要如何 我不明白自己要如何才能改变这种 观察者与被观察物的现象？ 我难道无法改变它吗？ 我不能只是同意你，然后说，是的，这没错。 我多多少少要做一些事情才行。
1:18:12 K: Quite right. That is, there is no identification at all. When you identify yourself with the observed, it is still the pattern of thought, isn't it? 克：说的很对。而我想说的是， 这里根本不存在什么认同的问题。 当你把自己与被观察物相认同时， 它仍旧是思想的模式，不是吗？
1:18:28 Q: Precisely. How do I get out of that? 问：完全正确。那么我要如何才能摆脱这种情况呢？
1:18:32 K: I'm going to show you. You don't get out of it. I'll show it to you in a minute. Do you see the truth that the observer is the observed? The truth of it, the fact of it, the logic of it. Do you see that, the truth of it, or don't you? 克：我这不是正要来告诉你嘛。 你并不需要去摆脱它。我马上就会来向你解释它。 你是否看到了这个真相： 即观察者就是被观察物？ 看到了这个真理，这个事实，看到了它的逻辑性。 你是否看到了它的真实性？ 还是说你没有看到？
1:19:15 Q: It's still only a comment which arises. The truth does not exist. 提问者：我只是产生了一种意见， 它并不存在什么真实性。
1:19:24 K: The fact doesn't exist? 克：事实难道会不存在吗？
1:19:26 Q: No. A comment arises. A comment of agreement arises. 提问者：不，只是产生了一种意见，对此表示同意而已。
1:19:30 K: Don't agree. You see that fact, don't you? Please don't agree or disagree, this is a very serious thing. I wish I could talk about meditation, but not now. This is implied in this. Just a minute, let me finish this. See the importance of this. The truth is that I am anger, not I am different from anger, that's the truth, isn't it? That's a fact, isn't it? I am anger, not 'I' separate from anger. When I am jealous, 'I' am jealous, not I am different from jealousy. I make myself separate from jealousy because I want to do something about jealousy, sustain it or get rid of it or rationalise it, or get bored with it, whatever it is. But the fact is, the me is jealous. That's a fact, isn't it? 克：不要去同意。你看到了这个事实，难道没有吗？ 请不要去同意或者不同意， 这是一件非常严肃的事情。 我希望可以来谈一下冥想，但不是现在。 这其中就隐含着冥想的问题。 请稍等，让我先把它讲完。 请看到它的重要性。 真相就是：我就是愤怒， 我与愤怒并没有什么不同， 这就是真相，不是吗？ 这是一个事实，难道不是吗？ 我就是愤怒，“我”与愤怒并不是分离的。 当我感到嫉妒时，“我”就是嫉妒， 我与嫉妒并没有什么不同。 我把自己和那个嫉妒分开， 是因为我想要对嫉妒做一些事情， 去维持它，摆脱它，把它合理化， 或者厌烦它，无论什么。 然而事实是，这个“我”就是嫉妒。 这是一个事实，不是吗？
1:21:07 How am I to act when I am jealous, when 'me' is jealousy? Before, I thought I could act when I separated myself from jealousy, I thought I could do something about it, suppress it, rationalise it, or run away from it, do various things. I thought I was doing something. Here, I feel I am not doing anything. That is, when I say, I am jealousy, I feel I can't move. Isn't that right? I'll show it to you. Look at the two varieties of activity, the action which takes place when you are different from jealousy, which is the non-ending of jealousy. You may run away from it, you may suppress it, you may transcend it, you may escape, etc., but it will come back, it will be there always, because there is the division between you and jealousy. Now, there is a totally different kind of action when there is no division, because in that the observer is the observed, he cannot do anything about it. Before, he was able to do something about it, now he feels he is stumped, he is frustrated, he can't do anything. If the observer is the observed then there is no saying, I can't do anything about it. He is what he is. He is jealousy. Now, when he is jealousy, what takes place? Go on, sir. 我要如何去行动呢？——当我感到嫉妒， 当“我”就是嫉妒的时候？ 之前，我认为我可以采取行动， 因为那时我是把自己和嫉妒分开的， 所以我觉得自己可以对它做一些事情， 去压抑它，去把它合理化，或者逃避它， 去对它做各种事情。 之前我认为自己正在对它采取一些行动。 而现在，我觉得自己什么也没有做。 也就是说，当我说“我是嫉妒的”， 那时候，我觉得我什么都做不了。 难道不对吗？ 我这就来向你们解释它。 看一下这两种不同的行动， 一种行动是在 当你不同于嫉妒的情况下发生的， 那种嫉妒是永无止境的。 你也许可以逃离它，压制它， 你也许可以超越它，逃避它，等等， 但它还是会再回来，它永远都在那儿， 因为你和嫉妒分割开来了。 然而，还存在着一种完全不同的行动， 那种当没有分裂时而产生的行动， 因为那时，观察者就是被观察物， 所以他无法对被观察物做任何事情。 在这之前，他可以对它做一些事情， 而现在，他感到自己进退两难了， 他遭到了阻挠，他无法去做任何事。 要是观察者就是被观察物的话， 那么我就不会再说什么了，因为我对此束手无策。 然后一个人就会成为真实的自己。 他本身就是嫉妒。 那么，当他就是嫉妒时，会发生什么呢？ 先生，请继续。
1:23:59 Q: He understands something. 提问者：他理解了一些东西。
1:24:01 K: Look at it. Do look at it for a minute, take time. When I realise I am different from my jealousy, then I feel I can do something about it. And in the doing of it there is conflict. Here, in the other side, when I realise the truth of it, that 'me' is jealousy, the observer is the observed, then what takes place? 克：看一下它。 稍微花点时间去审视一下它。 当我知道 我和我的嫉妒是不同的东西时， 我就会觉得我可以对它做一些事情。 而就在对它采取行动的过程中，就会有冲突。 而在这里，另一方面，当我明白了这其中的真相： 即“我”就是嫉妒，观察者就是被观察物， 那么会发生什么呢？
1:24:41 Q: There is no conflict. 提问者：冲突消失了。
1:24:44 K: Then what takes place? The element of conflict comes to an end, doesn't it? The element of conflict ceases. Here conflict exists, here conflict doesn't exist. So conflict is jealousy. You've got it? Just see what I've said. Please take time. Why do you clap? 克：那时会发生什么？ 导致冲突的那个元素消亡了，不是吗？ 导致冲突的元素止息了。 在第一种情况下，存在冲突，在第二种情况下，不存在冲突。 所以冲突就是嫉妒。 你们明白了？ 去看一下我所说的东西。 请为此花费一些时间。 你们为什么要鼓掌？
1:25:25 Q: May I ask a question? 提问者：我可以问个问题吗？
1:25:27 K: Sir, wait a minute, please. There was conflict, and conflict has been part of my life. I've lived with conflict from the moment I am born until I die, I know nothing but conflict. Here, when the observer is the observed, the thinker is the thought, then there is no conflict. When there is no conflict there is no jealousy. Jealousy is conflict, isn't it? 克：先生，请稍等片刻。 我们有着冲突， 而冲突一直都是我生活的一部分。 我一直和冲突生活在一起， 从我出生的那一刻起直到我死去， 除了冲突，其他我什么都不知道。 而现在，当观察者就是被观察物， 思想者就是思想时， 那么就不会有冲突了。 当没有了冲突，也就不会有嫉妒了。 嫉妒就是冲突，难道不是吗？
1:26:11 Q: In a way, yes. 提问者：从某个角度来说，是的。
1:26:15 Q: May I ask a question? 提问者：我可以问个问题吗？
1:26:17 K: Have you got this?

Q: Yes. 		克：你明白这一点了吗？提问者：明白了。
1:26:21 K: There has been complete action here, an action in which there has been no effort at all, therefore it is complete, total, it will never come back. 克：现在，我们有了一种完整的行动， 这种行动中没有任何的努力， 因此这种行动是完整的、完全的，它永远不会再回来。
1:26:42 Q: May I ask a question?

K: Yes. 		提问者：我可以问个问题吗？

克：可以。
1:26:51 K: What did you want to ask? 克：你想要问什么？
1:26:55 Q: You said analysis is the deadly tool of thought, or consciousness. I perfectly agree with you, and you were about to say that you would develop the argument that there are fragments in the brain, or thought or consciousness which would be anti-analytical. I would grateful if you would continue to develop that thought. 提问者：你说分析是思想 或意识极具破坏性的工具。 我完全同意你的看法，而你之前也说了 你要去论证一下，那就是在大脑、 思想或者意识中，也存在着一些“碎片”，它们是反对分析的。 如果你可以继续展开谈一下这个观点的话，我将不胜感激。
1:27:23 K: Of what? 克：什么观点？
1:27:26 Q: You mentioned that the fragments would not constitute any conflict or struggle. They will be anti-analytical... 提问者：你提到说那些“碎片” 将不会带来任何冲突或者努力。 因为它们是反对分析的
1:27:39 K: You are repeating something. What is the question? 克：你只是又重复说了一遍。你的问题是什么？
1:27:43 Q: I only request to continue what you mean by fragments that will be anti-analytical. Thank you. 提问者：我只是想请你继续谈一下你所说的 那种反对分析的“碎片”是什么意思？谢谢。
1:27:56 K: I just explained. There must be fragmentation when there is the observer and the observed as two different things. I've explained it. No? Look, this is not an argument. This is nothing to develop. I have gone into it fairly thoroughly. We can of course spend lots more time because the more deeply you go into it, the more there is. We have broken up our life into many fragments, haven't we. The scientist, the businessman, the artist, the housewife and so on. What is the basis of this fragmentation, what is the root of this fragmentation? The root of this fragmentation is the observer and the observed. He breaks it up, he breaks up life. I am a Hindu and you're a Catholic, I am a communist, you are a bourgeois, so there is this division going on all the time. And I say, why is there this division? What causes this division? Not only the external, economic, social structure, but much more deeply, what causes this division? This division is brought about, this fragmentation, the me and the not me, the me that wants to be superior, more famous, ambitious, the greater, the more, and 'you', different. So, the me is the observer, the me is the past, which divides the present as the past and the future. So, as long as there is the observer, the experiencer, the thinker, there must be division. We explained together that when there is division there is jealousy, conflict with jealousy, and so sustained conflict in jealousy. Where the observer is the observed, conflict ceases, and therefore jealousy ceases, because jealousy is conflict. Jealousy is conflict, isn't it? 克：我刚刚已经解释过了。 碎片的产生是必然的， 因为存在着观察者与被观察物这两个不同的东西。 我已经解释过它了。 没有吗？ 瞧，这并不是一场论证。 也没有什么东西要去展开讲的。 我已经很彻底地探究了它。 当然了，我们也可以再花上更多的时间， 因为你越是深入去探究它，就会发现越多的东西。 我们已经把我们的生活分裂成了无数碎片，不是吗？ 科学家、商人、艺术家、 家庭主妇等等。 这种碎片化的根基是什么？ 这种碎片化的根源是什么？ 这种碎片化的根源就是观察者与被观察物。 是他制造了分裂，是他分割了生活。 我是印度教徒，而你是天主教徒， 我是共产主义者，而你是资本家， 这种分裂一直在持续着。 而我问：为什么会有这种分裂？ 是什么导致了这种分裂？ 不仅包括外在的原因——经济的结构，社会的结构， 还包括那些更为深层的原因，是什么导致了这种分裂？ 之所以会产生这种分裂，这种碎片化， 是因为存在着我和“非我”的事物， 这个“我”想要变得更优秀，更出名，他野心勃勃， 想要变得更伟大，等等， 而“你”则是不同于我的事物。 因此，这个“我”就是观察者， 这个“我”就是过去， 他将“现在”分割为过去和未来。 所以，只要还是存在着观察者、 经验者、思想者，那么就必然会有分裂。 我们已经一起解释过了， 那就是当有了分裂，就会有嫉妒， 以及与这种嫉妒产生的冲突， 而嫉妒中的冲突就这样得以维持延续下去。 而当观察者就是被观察物时，冲突就会止息， 因此嫉妒也会止息，因为嫉妒就是冲突。 嫉妒就是冲突，不是吗？
1:31:06 Q: Is it human nature, jealousy? 提问者：它是人之本性吗？嫉妒。
1:31:15 K: Is jealousy human nature. Is violence human nature? Is greed human nature? 克：嫉妒是人之本性吗？ 暴力是人之本性吗？贪婪是人之本性吗？
1:31:24 Q: I wanted to ask you another question, if I may. Am I right or wrong, according to what you've been telling us, and to put it succinctly: as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So watch our thoughts and profit from experience. 提问者：如果可以的话，我想要问你另一个问题。 我不知道我的想法是对是错，那就是你所告诉我们的东西， 它简单来说就是： 一个人心里怎么想的，他就会成为怎样的人。 所以要观察我们自己的思想，并且从经验中获益。
1:31:49 K: What? I haven't quite understood what you said. What was the question? 克：什么意思？ 我不是很明白你所说的东西。 你的问题是什么？
1:32:15 Q: As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. We should watch our thoughts, shouldn't we, and profit from our past experience? 提问者：一个人心里怎么想的，他就会成为怎样的人。 所以我们应当观察我们的思想，不是吗？ 然后从我们过去的经验中获益。
1:32:25 K: That's just what I was saying: as you think, you are. That's just it. As you think, what you think, you are. What you think - that you are greater than somebody else, that you are inferior to somebody else, that you are perfect, that you are not beautiful, that you are angry - what you think, you are. That's simple enough, isn't it? And until you find out whether it is possible to live a life where thought has its rational function, where thought becomes irrational. We'll go into that tomorrow. No, next weekend. 克：这正是我之前在说的东西：你在想什么，你就是什么。 正是如此。 当你思考时，你想的是什么东西，你就是那个东西。 你想的是什么？那就是你要比别人更了不起， 或者你是低人一等的， 你是一个体貌完美的人，或者你是一个不漂亮的人， 你是一个容易生气的人——你想的是什么，你就是什么。 这已经足够简单了，不是吗？ 而你要去发现是否可能 去过这样一种生活：即你清楚思想在哪里有合理的功能， 在哪里它又会变得不合理。 我们明天将会来探讨它。 说错了，是下一周。
1:33:27 Q: To continue in the same vein with the jealousy, when the jealousy is me, and me is the jealousy, the conflict ends because I know it's the jealousy and it disappears. But when I listen to the noises in the street and the me is the noises and the noises are me, how can conflict end when that noise will go on forever? 提问者：按照和嫉妒问题同样的思路想下去， 当嫉妒就是我，而我就是嫉妒时， 冲突就会停止，因为我知道它（冲突）就是嫉妒，于是它就消失了。 然而当我听到大街上的噪音时， 哪怕我看到我就是噪音，而噪音就是我， 冲突又要如何才会停止呢？因为那个噪音还是会一直持续下去。
1:33:53 K: It's fairly simple. The question is: I walk down the street and that noise is terrible, and when I say that noise is me, the noise doesn't end, it goes on, isn't that the question? I don't say the noise is me. I don't say the cloud is me or the tree is me. Why should I say the noise is me? No, please don't laugh. I don't know why you laugh about this silly thing. We pointed out just now that if you observe, if you say, I listen to that noise, listen completely, not with resistance, then that noise may go on forever, it doesn't effect you. The moment you resist, that is, you as separate from the noise, not identify yourself with the noise. I don't know if you see the difference. The noise goes on. I either can cut myself off from it by resisting it, putting a wall between myself and that noise, then what takes place? When I resist something what takes place? There's conflict, isn't there? Can I listen to that noise without any resistance whatsoever? 克：这是相当简单的。 问题就是： 我走在大街上，大街上有着可怕的噪音， 而当我说那个噪音就是我时， 噪音并不会停止，它还是会继续下去， 就是这个问题吧？ 我并没有说那个噪音就是我。 我并没有说那片云就是我， 或者那棵树就是我。 为什么我要说那个噪音就是我？ 不，请不要笑。 我不知道你们为什么要为这种愚蠢的事而发笑。 我们刚才所指出的是，如果你能去观察， 如果你说，我会去聆听这噪音， 去完全地聆听它， 而没有任何抵抗， 那么那个噪音也许会一直持续下去，但它将不会影响到你。 然而一旦当你去抵抗， 也就是说，当你把自己和那个噪音分开， 不把自己认同于那个噪音时 ——我不知道你们有没有看到这其中的区别—— 那么噪音就会持续下去了。 我可以通过抵抗，把自己和它分隔开来， 在我和那个噪音之间设置一堵墙， 那时会发生什么？ 当我抵抗某个事物时，会发生什么呢？ 那时就会有冲突， 不是吗？ 那么我能否聆听那个噪音，而没有任何的抵抗呢？
1:36:01 Q: Yes, if you know that the noise might stop in an hour. 提问者：可以，如果你知道那个噪音会在一小时内结束的话。
1:36:05 K: No, that's part of your resistance still. 克：不， 这仍旧是你抵抗的一部分。
1:36:11 Q: That means that I can listen to the noise in the street for the rest of my life, with the possibility I might become deaf... 提问者：你的意思是我要聆听大街上的噪音 听上一辈子， 而这可能会让我变成聋子
1:36:21 K: No, I am saying something entirely different. We are saying, as long as there is resistance there must be conflict. Whether I resist my wife or my husband, whether I resist the noise of the dog barking or the noise in the street, there must be conflict. Now, how to listen to the noise without conflict? Not whether it will go on indefinitely, hoping it will come to an end, but how to listen to the noise without any conflict? That's what we are talking about. You can listen to the noise when the mind is completely free of any form of resistance, not only to the noise but to everything in life, to your husband, to your wife, to your children, to the politician, listen. Therefore what takes place? Your listening becomes much more acute. You become much more sensitive. And therefore noise is only a part, it isn't the whole world. So the very act of listening is more important than the noise. So listening becomes the important thing and not the noise. 克：不是的， 我在说的是完全不同的东西。 我们在说的是，只要还是存在抵抗，那么就必然会有冲突。 不管我抵抗的是我的妻子，还是我的丈夫， 不管我是在抵抗狗叫的噪音， 还是大街上的噪音，都必然会产生冲突。 那么，我们要如何毫无冲突地去聆听那个噪音呢？ 而不是它是否会无休止地继续下去， 不是去希望它可以结束， 而是如何聆听那噪音而没有任何冲突？ 这才是我们在讨论的东西。 要去聆听噪音，你的头脑需要彻底摆脱掉 任何形式的抵抗， 不只是对噪音的抵抗，也包括对生活中每一样事物的抵抗， 抵抗你的丈夫，抵抗你的妻子，抵抗你的孩子， 抵抗政客，你只是聆听。 那样的话，会发生什么呢？ 你的聆听会变得更加敏锐。 你会变得更为敏感。 由此你会发现，噪音只是一小部分而已， 它并不是整个世界。 因此，聆听的行为本身要比噪音更加重要。 所以，聆听变成了重要的东西， 而不是那个噪音。
1:38:10 I think I better stop, it's ten past seven. 我想最好到此为止吧，已经七点十分了。