克里希那穆提

Krishnamurti Subtitles

NY71T3 - 关系
第三次公开讲话
美国，纽约
1971年4月24日

0:33	Krishnamurti: I would like this evening if I may, to talk about several things: about relationship, what is love, and the whole human existence, involved in which is our daily living, the enormous problems one has, the conflicts, the pleasures and fears, and that most extraordinary thing one calls death.	克里希那穆提（以下简称克）：如果可以的话，今天晚上我想要来谈几件事情：关于关系，什么是爱，以及人类的整个存在 ——其中就包含了我们的日常生活，我们身上的那些巨大的问题，那些冲突，那些快感和恐惧，以及那个我们称之为“死亡”的最非凡的东西。
1:42	As we were saying the other day, I think one has to understand this not as a theory, not as a speculative, entertaining concept, but rather as an actual fact, that one is the world and the world is us. We are the world and the world is each one of us. And to feel that, to really be committed to it and to nothing else, not only brings about a feeling of great responsibility and an action that must be not fragmentary, but as a whole.	就像我们前几天所说的，我觉得我们必须要去了解这一点——但不是把它当成一个理论，不是把它当成一种猜测，一个有趣的概念，而是把它当成一个实际的事实—— 即我们就是世界，这个世界就是我们。我们就是这个世界，而这个世界就是我们每一个人。如果我们感知到了这一点，如果我们真正地决心投身于它，而不顾其他任何东西，那么这不仅将会带来一种强烈的责任感，也会带来一种行动——这种行动绝不会是碎片化的，而是一个整体。
3:00	I think we are apt to forget that our society, the culture in which we live, in which we have been brought up, which has conditioned us, is the result of human endeavour, human conflict, human misery, human suffering, and the two, the culture and the individual and the community is each one of us, we are not separate from it. Now, to feel this, not as an intellectual idea or a concept, but to actually feel the reality of this, one has to go into the question of what is relationship, because our life, our existence, is based on relationship. Life is a movement in relationship. And if we do not understand what is implied in relationship, we inevitably not only isolate ourselves but create a society in which human beings are divided, not only nationally, religiously, but also in themselves, and therefore project what they are in the outer world.	我认为我们很容易忘记这一点：那就是我们的社会与文化——我们在其中生活，我们在其中被培养长大，并被它所制约—— 这种社会与文化，它们是人类的努力、人类的冲突，人类的痛苦，人类的苦难的产物，而这两者，文化，以及个体与团体，它就是我们每一个人，我们并不是与之分离的。现在，要去感知到这一点，不是把它作为一种思想上的理念或者概念，而是真正地感受到它的真实性，我们就必须去探讨这个问题：什么是关系？因为我们的生活，我们的存在，是建立在关系之上的。生活就是一种关系中的运动。要是我们不明白关系中所蕴含的东西，那么我们不仅会不可避免地孤立我们自己，同样也会创造出一个分裂人类的社会，不仅是国家上的分裂，宗教上的分裂，也包括人类自身的分裂，从而将他们自身的现状投射到外部世界中去。
4:52	I do not know if one has gone into this question deeply for oneself, to find out if one can live with another in total harmony, in complete accord, so that there is no barrier, no division, a feeling of complete unity. Because relationship means, doesn't it, to be related. Not in action, not in some project, not in an ideology or a concept, to be totally united in the sense that the division, the fragmentation between individuals, between two human beings, doesn't exist at all at any level.	我不知道你们有没有亲自深入探究过这个问题，去发现是否我们可以与别人无比和睦地，无比和谐地生活在一起，由此便不会有界线，不会有划分，会有一种天下大同的感觉。因为关系就意味着产生联系。不是吗？不是在行动中的联系，不是在某个项目计划中的联系，也不是在某个意识形态或者观念中的联系，天下大同的意思是个体之间，人与人之间的划分与分裂在任何层面上都完全不复存在。
6:32	Unless one finds this relationship, it seems to me that when we try to bring about order in the world, theoretically or technologically, we are bound to create not only deep divisions between man and man but also we'll be unable to prevent corruption. Corruption begins in the lack of relationship. I think that is the root of corruption. Relationship as we know it now is the continuation of division between individuals. And that word individual, the root meaning of that word, means indivisible, a human being who is in himself not divided, not fragmented, is really an individual. But most of us are not individuals. We think we are and therefore there is the opposition of the individual against the community. But when one understands not only the meaning of that word in the dictionary sense but the deep sense of individuality in which there is no fragmentation at all, that is, perfect harmony between the mind, the heart, and the physical organism. It is only then that an individuality exists.	除非我们能找到这种关系，否则，在我看来，当我们努力为这个世界带来秩序时 ——不管是理论上的还是技术上的，我们都注定会制造出人与人之间深深的分裂，并且我们也将无法阻止腐败。腐败始于关系的缺乏。我认为这就是腐败的根源。我们现在所知的关系，它是个体之间持续不断的分裂。而“个体（individual）”这个词语，它的词根意思就是不可分割（indivisible），一个自身内在没有分割，也没有分裂的人，才是真正的个体。但我们大多数人都不算是个体。但我们认为自己是个体，因此便会有个体反对团体的情况。然而当我们不仅能够了解 “个体”这个词在词典中的意思，也能够了解它的深层含义时 ——那就是在它之中没有任何的碎片分裂，有着一种头脑、心灵和身体之间的完美和谐—— 只有那时，个体性才会存在。
9:11	And as our present relationship with each other - however intimate or superficial, deep or passing, if we examine it closely - is fragmented. The wife or the husband or the boy or girl lives in his own cocoon, he lives in his own ambition, personal and egotistic pursuits, envious. And all these contribute to the factor of bringing about an image in himself, and therefore his relationship with another is through that image, and therefore there is no actual relationship.	而就我们目前彼此间的关系而言 ——不管这种关系是多么亲密或肤浅，多么深刻或短暂—— 如果我们仔细地检视一下它的话，我们就会发现它是支离破碎的。妻子或者丈夫，男朋友或者女朋友，每个人都活在他自己的“小天地”里，他活在自己的野心中，活在他个人的、自我的追求中，活在嫉妒中。而所有这些都助长了那个带来个人自我形象的因素，因此他与别人的关系都是透过那个形象而来的，所以并不存在真正的关系。
10:38	I do not know if one is aware of this image one has, if you are actually aware of the structure and the nature of this image that one has built around oneself and in oneself. And each person is doing this all the time. And how can there be a relationship with another if there is the personal drive, envy, competition, greed, and all the rest of those things which are sustained and exaggerated in modern society. How can there be relationship with another if each one of us is pursuing his own personal achievement, his own personal success?	我不知道你们有没有意识到自己所持有的形象，你们是否真正觉察到了这个形象的结构与本质 ——这个形象是我们围绕着自己建立起来的，是我们在心中所建立起来的。每个人一直都在做着这样的事。所以我们又怎么可能与他人产生关系呢？因为我们带着自私的驱动力，带着嫉妒、竞争、贪婪，等等所有这些东西，这些东西在现代社会被加以维持和放大。所以我们与别人又怎么可能会有关系呢？因为我们每个人都在追求着他自己个人的成就，追求他自己的成功。
12:05	I do not know if one is at all aware of all this. We are so conditioned that we accept that as the norm, as the pattern of life, that each one must pursue his own peculiar idiosyncrasy, his own peculiar tendency, and try to establish a relationship with another in spite of this. That's what we're doing, aren't we, if one examines oneself closely, isn't that what one is doing, isn't that what you're all doing? Though you may be married, you go to the office or to the factory, whatever you do during the whole of the day you pursue that, and she in her house, with her own troubles, with her own vanities, all that happens. Where is the relationship between those two human beings? Is it in bed, in sex? And is this relationship so superficial, so limited, so circumscribed, is that not in itself corruption?	我不知道你们究竟有没有觉察到所有这些。我们是如此的局限，以至于我们接受了这些东西，把它们视为标准，视为生活的模板，也就是每个人都必须去追求他自己特有的习性癖好，他自己特定的脾性，然后在这样做了以后，再试图去建立起与他人的关系。这就是我们在做的事情，不是吗？要是你们仔细地检视一下自己的话，这难道不就是我们正在做的事吗？这难道不就是你们都在做的事吗？尽管你们也许已经结婚了，你们去办公室或者工厂工作，不管你们做的是什么，然后一整天里，你们都在追求那些东西，而她则待在自己家里，有着她自己的烦恼和虚荣，所有这些事情都在发生着。那么这两个人之间的关系又体现在哪里呢？体现在床上吗？体现在性爱中吗？这种关系是不是太肤浅了，太有限了，太局限了？它本身之中不就有着腐败吗？
14:21	Probably you will ask how is one then to live if you do not go to the office, pursue your own particular ambition, envy, your own desire to achieve and attain, if one doesn't do all those things, what is one to do? I think that's a wrong question altogether, don't you? Because we are concerned, aren't we, in bringing about a radical change in the whole structure of the mind. Because the crisis is not in the outer world but the crisis is in consciousness itself. And until we understand this crisis, not superficially, not according to some philosopher, some teacher, but actually understand it for ourselves deeply by looking into it, examining it, we shall not be able to bring about a change. And we are concerned with psychological revolution. The revolution can only take place when there is the right kind of relationship between human beings.	也许你们会问，那么我们要如何去生活呢——如果我们不去办公室工作，不去追求自己特定的野心和嫉妒，不去追求想要成功和成就的欲望的话，要是这些事情我们都不做，那么我们要做什么呢？但我认为这完全是一个错误的问题，不是吗？因为我们关心的是带来一次根本性的转变，去改变头脑的整个结构，不是吗？因为危机并不存在于外部世界中，危机存在于我们的意识中。而除非直到我们了解了这种危机，不是肤浅表面的了解，不是根据某些哲学家或者某些导师的描述，而是自己去深刻地，真正地理解它 ——因为我们已经研究了它，检视过了它，除非我们了解了它，否则我们将无法带来这种转变。我们所关心的是心理上的革命。而要这种革命发生，就需要有一种人与人之间正确的关系。
16:23	How is such a relationship to be brought about? First, the problem is clear, isn't it? If I'm married I have a responsibility, children, etc. I go to the office or to some work and spend my whole day there. Please, share this problem with me, will you? It's your problem, not my problem. It's your life, not my life. It's your sorrow, your trouble, your anxiety, your guilt, the great weight of sorrow, that's one's life, it is that, this battle. If you listen merely to a description, then you'll find that you're merely swimming on the surface and not resolving any problem at all. So as it is actually your problem, and the speaker is merely describing the problem, knowing that the description is not the described, and to share this problem together. Which is, how can human beings, you and I, find in all this turmoil, mess, hatred, war, destruction, pollution, these terrible things that are going on in the world, how can we find right relationship?	那么要如何带来这种关系呢？首先，这个问题是很清楚的，不是吗？要是我已经结婚了，我就会有责任，要养孩子，等等。我去办公室上班，或者做其他什么工作，把我一整天的时间都花在那儿。请注意，你们要和我一起分享这个问题，可以吗？因为这是你们的问题，而不是我的问题。这是你们的生活，而不是我的生活。这是你们的痛苦，你们的烦恼，你们的焦虑，你们的内疚，那种沉重的悲伤，这就是我们的生活，它就是如此，它是一场战争。而如果你仅仅只是听一下关于它的描述，那么你就会发现你只是浮于表面，而根本没有解决任何问题。所以，这实际上是你们的问题，而演讲者仅仅是在描述这些问题，你们要清楚，描述并非是那个被描述之物，所以我们要去一起分享这个问题：也就是人类要如何，你和我要如何找到正确的关系？这个世界充满了动乱、混乱、仇恨、战争、破坏、污染，这些可怕的事情正在这个世界上发生着，那么我们要如何才能找到正确的关系呢？
19:14	To find that out, it seems to me, one must examine actually what is taking place, see what actually is, not what we'd like to think it should be, or try to change our relationship to a future concept, but actually observe what it is now. And in observing what it is now, the fact, the truth, the actuality of it, then there is a possibility of changing that. As we said the other day, again, when there is a possibility then there is great energy. What dissipates energy is the idea that it is not possible to change.	在我看来，要发现它，我们就必须去检视那些实际在发生的事情，去看一下真实的现状，不是我们认为它应该变得怎样怎样，或者试图依照某个未来的概念来改变我们的关系，而是实际地去观察一下当下的真实状况。当你去观察当下的真实状况，观察它的事实，它的真相，它的现状时，那时你就有可能去改变它了。就像我们前几天说过的，再重复一遍，当我们看到它是可能的，那么就会有巨大的能量。耗散能量的是那种觉得“不可能改变”的想法。
20:29	So we must look at our relationship as it is now, actual, every day. And in observing what it is then we shall discover how to bring about a change in that actuality. So we are describing what actually is, which is, each one lives in his own world, in his world of ambition, greed, fear, the desire to succeed, etc., you know what is going on. We meet each other, husband and wife, or a boy and a girl, in bed. And that's what we call love, leading separate lives, isolated, build a wall of resistance around ourselves, self-centred activity, each one is seeking security psychologically, each one depending on the other for comfort, for pleasure, for companionship, because each one is so deeply lonely, each one demanding to be loved, to be cherished, each one trying to dominate the other.	所以我们必须要观察我们的关系，每一天都如实地去观察我们当下的关系。当我们去观察真实现状，我们就会找到如何去改变现状的方法了。所以我们正在描述真实现状是什么，真实现状就是，每一个人都活在他自己的世界里，活在他自己那充满野心、贪婪、恐惧，以及对成功渴望等等的世界中，你们都清楚这些正在发生的事情。我们彼此间的相遇 ——丈夫和妻子，男朋友和女朋友—— 是发生在床上。而这就是我们所谓的“爱”，过着各自的生活，保持孤立，在自己周围建造起抵抗的围墙，自我中心的活动，每一个人都在寻求心理上的安全感，每一个人都在依靠别人来获得安慰、快乐和陪伴，因为每个人都是如此深深的孤独，每个人都在要求别人来爱他们有人来珍惜他们，每个人都试图去支配别人。
23:01	Seeing this - which is fairly observable, you can see it for yourself if you observe yourself - is there any kind of relationship at all? And because there is no relationship between two human beings, though they may have children, house, etc., actually they're not related. If they have a common project together, that project sustains them, holds them together, but that's not relationship.	在看到了这些以后 ——这些东西都是显而易见的，如果你观察一下自己，你自己就可以看到它—— 你觉得还会有任何关系存在吗？正因为两个人之间失去了关系 ——尽管他们也许有小孩，有房子，等等，但事实上他们之间并没有联系。如果人们有了一个需要共同去执行的计划，那么这个计划将会保持住他们之间的关系，将他们团结在一起，但这并不是关系。
24:02	Seeing all this, and seeing that if there is no relationship between two human beings then corruption begins, not in the outward structure of society, the pollution in the outer phenomenon, but pollution, corruption, destruction begins when human beings have actually no relationship at all, as you haven't. You may hold the hand of another, kiss each other, sleep together, but actually when you observe very closely, is there any relationship at all? Which means to be related, not dependent on each other, not escape from your loneliness through another, not try to find comfort, companionship, through another. When you do seek comfort, dependence through another, can there be any kind of relationship, or you are using each other. We are not being cynical but actually observing what is, and that's not cynicism. So, to find out what is relationship, what it is to actually be related to another, one must understand this question of loneliness. Because most of us are terribly lonely. The older we grow the more lonely we become, especially in this country. Have you noticed the old people, what they're like? Have you noticed their escapes, their amusement? They've worked all their life and they want to escape into some kind of entertainment.	我们看到了这一切，看到了如果两人之间没有关系，腐败就会开始滋生 ——不是说那种社会外部结构中的腐败，比如说那些污染，那些外在的腐败现象，而是说污染、腐败、破坏之所以会发生，是因为人类之间实际上已经失去了所有的关系，是因为你们之间没有关系。你也许会握住另一个人的手，彼此亲吻，睡在一起，但事实上，如果你非常密切地去观察一下它，你们之间真的存在任何关系吗？关系意味着产生联系，不再彼此依赖对方，不去逃避你的孤独 ——通过对方来逃避，也不试图在对方身上寻求安慰与陪伴。当你在对方身上寻求安慰寻求依赖时，你们之间还可能会有任何关系吗？还是说你们是在彼此利用对方。我们并不是在愤世嫉俗，而是在观察真实的现状，而这并不是愤世嫉俗。所以，要发现什么是关系？什么是真正与他人产生联系？我们就必须了解关于孤独的问题。因为我们大多数人都非常孤独。我们年纪越大，就会变得越孤独，特别是在这个国家里。你有没有注意过那些老人？他们是什么样子的？你有没有注意到他们的各种逃避方式，他们的娱乐活动？他们已经工作了一辈子，现在他们想要逃避到某种娱乐活动中去。
27:17	And to see and to find out a way of living in which we don't use another, psychologically, emotionally, not depend on another, not use another as a means of escape from your own tortures, from your own despairs, from your own loneliness.	而我们要去看到，去发现一种生活方式，在其中我们不会彼此利用 ——不管是心理上还是情感上—— 也不会依赖于对方，我们不会利用对方来作为一种逃避我们自身痛苦折磨、绝望和孤独的手段。
28:03	To understand it, that is, to understand what it means to be lonely. Have you ever been lonely? Do you know what it means? That you have no relationship with another, completely isolated. You may be with your family, in a crowd or in the office, wherever you are, this thing suddenly comes upon you, complete sense of utter loneliness with its despair. And until you solve that completely, your relationship becomes a means of escape and therefore it leads to corruption, leads to misery. So, how to understand this loneliness, this sense of complete isolation? To understand it one has to look at our own life. Isn't every action that you're doing a self-centred activity? You may occasionally be charitable, occasionally generous, do something without any motive, those are rare occasions. But actually, the despair can never be dissolved through escape but by observing it.	要了解它，也就是，去了解孤独是什么意思。你是否曾经感到过孤独？你知道它意味着什么吗？那就是你和他人失去了关系，变得完全孤立。你也许和你的家人在一起，你也许身处人群之中，或者在办公室里，无论在什么地方，孤独会突然向你袭来，你会感到完全彻底的孤单，以及那种孤单所带来的绝望感。而除非你能彻底地解决孤独的问题，否则你们的关系就会变成一种逃避的手段，因此它便会导致腐败，导致痛苦。那么，要如何去了解这种孤独，这种完全孤立的感觉呢？要了解它，我们就必须去观察一下我们自己的生活。你的每一个行为，难道不都是自我中心的活动吗？你也许偶尔会做做慈善，偶尔会变得慷慨大方，毫无动机地去做一些事情，但这种情况极少发生。但事实上，绝望是永远无法通过逃避来解决的，而只能通过观察它来解决。
30:17	So we'll come back to this question, which is how to observe, how to observe ourselves so that in that observation there is no conflict at all. Because conflict is corruption, conflict is a waste of energy, conflict is the battle of our life, from the moment we are born until we die. And is it possible to live without a single moment of conflict? And to do that, to find out for ourselves, one has to learn how to observe, how to observe our whole movement. We went into that the other day, there is observation which becomes harmonious, which is true, when the observer is not, but only observation. We went into that so I won't go into it again because it would be rather a waste of time, because there are so many things to talk about.	所以我们又回到了这个问题：那就是如何去观察？如何去观察我们自己，使得在那种观察中没有任何的冲突。因为冲突就是腐败，冲突就是一种能量的浪费，冲突是我们生活中的战争 ——从我们出生的那一刻起直到我们死去。那么，有没有可能让生活中没有任何冲突的时刻呢？要这样做，要亲自去发现它，我们就必须学习如何观察，如何去观察我们全部的运动。我们前几天已经探讨过它了，那就是存在着一种观察，这种观察是和谐的、正确的，因为在其中没有了观察者，而只剩下了观察本身。我们已经探讨过它了，所以我就不再重复了，因为这很浪费时间，我们还有很多东西要讲。
31:51	When there is no relationship can there be love? We talk about it. And love, as we know it, is related to sex and pleasure, isn't it? No? Some of you say no. Then when you say no, then you must be without ambition, then there must be no competition, then there must be no division as you and me, we and they, there must be no division of nationality, no division in belief, or the division brought about by belief, division brought about by knowledge, then only, and more, you can say you love. But for most people love is related to sex and pleasure, and all the travail that comes with it, jealousy, envy, antagonisms, you know what happens between man and woman. When that relationship is not true, real, deep, completely harmonious, then how can you have in the world peace? How can there be then an end to war?	当没有了关系时，还会有爱吗？我们谈论爱。而我们所知道的爱，它是和性欲以及快感联系在一起的，不是吗？不是？你们中有些人说“不是”。那么，当你说“不是”的时候，你就必须已经没有了野心，没有了竞争，也没有了分裂划分 ——你和我的划分，我们和他们的划分，我们必须已经没有了国家的划分，没有了信仰的划分，或者信仰所带来的分裂以及知识所带来的分裂，只有那时，以及在那以后，你才能说你有爱。但是对大多数人来说，爱是和性欲以及快感联系在一起的，以及所有伴随着它而来的痛苦，那些猜疑、嫉妒和敌对，你们都清楚男人和女人之间发生的那些事。当那种关系并不是正确、真实、深刻，和完全和谐的，你们又怎么可能会有世界和平呢？战争又怎么可能停止呢？
34:27	So relationship is one of the most, or rather the most important thing in life. That means to understand what love is. Surely one comes upon it, strangely, without asking for it, when you find out for yourself what it is not, what love is not, then you know what love is, not theoretically, not intellectually or verbally, but when you realise actually what it is not. Which is, a mind that is competitive, ambitious, a mind that is striving, comparing, imitating, such a mind cannot possibly love.	因此，关系是最重要的东西之一，或者更确切地说，它是生命中最重要的东西。那意味着，我们要去了解什么是爱。毫无疑问，我们会偶然遇见爱，在没有邀请它的情况下，不可思议地遇见它，但这只有当你亲自发现了“什么不是爱”以后才会发生，当你知道了“什么不是爱”，你就会知道爱是什么了，不是理论上、思想上、或者口头上知道，而是真正地意识到“什么不是爱”。也就是说，如果头脑充满了竞争性，野心勃勃，如果头脑在奋斗、比较和模仿，那么这样的头脑就不可能去爱。
35:52	So can you, living in this world, live completely without ambition, completely never comparing yourself with another, because the moment you compare, then there is conflict, then there is envy, then there is ambition, then there is the desire to achieve, to go beyond the other. Do listen to all this, it's your life we are talking about.	所以生活在这个世界的你们，你们能否去完整地生活而没有任何野心？永远不拿自己去和别人比较，因为一旦当你去比较，就会有冲突，就会有嫉妒，就会有野心，然后你就会渴望获得成功，渴望超过别人。请聆听所有这些东西，我们在谈论的是你的生活。
36:42	Can a mind and a heart, that is, that remembers the hurts, the insults, the things that have made it sensitive, dull, can such a mind and a heart know what love is?	当头脑和心灵记住了那些伤害，那些侮辱，那些让它变得敏感或迟钝的东西时，这样的头脑和心灵还能够知晓什么是爱吗？
37:17	Is love pleasure? And yet that is what we are pursuing, consciously or unconsciously. Our gods are the result of our pleasure, our beliefs, our social structure, the morality of society, which is essentially immoral, is the result of our pursuit for pleasure. And when you say, I love somebody, is it love? That means no separation, no domination, no self-centred activity. And to find out what it is, one must deny all this, deny in the sense, see the falseness of it. When you see something false which you have accepted as true, as natural, as human, once you see that, then one can never go back to it. When you see a dangerous snake or a dangerous animal, never play with it anymore, never come near it. Similarly, when you see that love is none of these things, actually see it, feel it, observe it, chew it, live with it, be committed to it totally, then you know what love is, then you will know what compassion is, which means passion for everyone. And we have no passion, we have lust, we have pleasure.	爱是快感吗？然而快感正是我们所追求的东西 ——有意识或无意识在追求的东西。我们的神明是我们快感的产物，他们是我们信仰，我们的社会结构和社会道德的产物 ——社会道德本质上是不道德的，神明就是我们追求快感的结果。而当你说：我爱某某人时，这是爱吗？爱意味着没有分隔，没有支配，也没有自我中心的活动。而要去发现爱是什么，我们就必须否定以上所有这些东西，这里否定的意思是，看到它的错误所在。当你看到某样东西是错误的 ——你之前接受了这个东西，认为它是正确的，是自然的，是人性—— 一旦你看到了它的错误，你就永远不会再回到它那里去了。当你看到它是一条危险的毒蛇，或者一只危险的野兽时，你就永远不会再和它一起玩耍，也永远不会再靠近它了。同样的，当你看到爱并不是上面所说的那些东西，真正地看到它，感受到它，观察到它，深入思考了它，并且与之共存，去完全投身于它，那时你就会知道什么是爱了，那时你就会知道什么是同情，同情意味着对每一个人充满热情。然而我们并没有热情，我们有的是性欲和快感。
40:07	And the word passion comes from the root of sorrow. We have all had sorrow of some kind or another, losing somebody, the sorrow of self pity, the sorrow of the human race, both collective and personal, - we know what sorrow is - the death of someone whom you consider that you have loved. And when we remain with that sorrow totally, without any escape, without trying to rationalise it, without trying to escape from it through any form, through words or through action, when you totally remain with it, completely, without any movement of thought, then you will find out of that sorrow, comes passion. Then that passion has the quality of love, because love has no sorrow.	而“热情（passion）”这个词，它来自于“痛苦（sorrow）”这个词根。我们都曾经有过这样或者那样的痛苦，失去了某人，自哀自怜的痛苦，人类的痛苦 ——既包括集体的，也包括个人的，我们都知道痛苦是什么，那个你认为你所爱的人死去了。然而，当我们完全彻底地和那个痛苦待在一起，没有任何的逃避，不试图去把它合理化，也不试图通过任何形式 ——比如文字或者行动——来逃离它，当你完全和它待在一起时，彻底地和它在一起，没有任何思想的活动，那么你就会发现从那种痛苦中，会产生出热情。那种热情就会具有爱的品质，因为爱之中是没有痛苦的。
42:03	When one understands this whole question of existence, the conflicts, the battles, the life that one leads, so empty, so meaningless, and the intellectuals try to give a meaning to life, a significance to life. And we also want to find significance to life, because life has no meaning as it is lived, has it? The constant struggle, the endless work, the misery, the suffering, the travail that one goes through in life, all that has no meaning actually, we go through it as a habit. But to find out what the significance of this existence is, one must also understand the significance of death, because living and dying are together, they're not two separate things.	当我们了解了这整个关于存在的问题时，那些冲突，那些斗争，我们所过的生活是如此空虚，如此毫无意义，而那些知识分子试图给这种生活赋予某种价值，赋予它意义。而我们也想要找到生活的意义，因为我们目前所过的生活，它并没有什么意义，它有吗？它是一场持续不断的斗争，无穷无尽的工作，悲惨、苦难，那些我们所经历的生活的痛苦艰辛，所有这些实际上并没有什么意义，我们经历它们已经成了一种习惯。而要去发现这种存在的意义是什么，我们也必须了解死亡的意义，因为生活和死亡是一起的，它们并不是两个分开的东西。
43:52	So one must enquire what it means to die, because that's part of our living, not something in the distant future to be avoided, only to be faced when one is desperately ill, in old age or an accident, or die on a battlefield. So it is part of our life, our daily life, as it is part of our daily life to live without a single breath of conflict, it's part of our life to find out what it means to love. That is also a part of our existence, the whole field of our existence is not merely to end in death. So one must understand it.	所以我们必须去探询死亡意味着什么？因为死亡是我们生活的一部分，它并不是某个在遥远未来的，需要去避免的东西，它不是一个只有当你得了绝症，衰老，遭遇事故，或者死于战场时才需要面对的东西。所以，死亡是我们生命的一部分，是我们日常生活的一部分，就像我们日常生活中的一部分也包括了让自己的生活没有丝毫的冲突，我们生活的一部分也包括了去发现爱意味着什么，这也是我们存在的一部分，我们的整个存在并不仅仅结束于死亡之中。所以我们必须要了解死亡。
45:33	How do we understand what death is? Can you understand it when you are dying, at the last moment, unconscious? Probably the way you have lived, the strains, the emotional struggles, the ambitions, the drive, all that makes one at the last moment incapable of clear perception. Then there is old age and the fear of old age, the deterioration of the mind, and all the rest of it. So, one has to understand what death is now, not tomorrow. If you observe, thought doesn't want to think about it. It'll think about all the things it will do tomorrow, building the bridges, how to invent new things, better bathrooms, and all the rest thought can think about, but it doesn't want to think about death, because it doesn't know what it means. And the meaning of death, is that to be found through the process of thought? Are we sharing together all this? Please do share it. When we share it then we will begin to see the beauty of all this. But if you sit there and let the speaker go on, merely listening to his words, then we don't share together. Sharing together implies a certain quality of care, attention, affection, love. And death is a tremendous problem. And the young people may say, why do you bother about it? Because it's part of their life, it is part of their life to understand celibacy, not just, why do you talk about celibacy? That's for the old fogeys, that's for the stupid monks. But that also has been a problem for human beings, not invented by the priests, or very recent Catholics, it has been a problem for five thousand years, what it means to be celibate.	那么我们要如何才能了解什么是死亡呢？你可以在你临终之时，在你生命的最后时刻了解它吗？你也许未曾意识到你的生活方式，那些压力紧张，那些情感上的挣扎，你的野心，你的冲动，所有这些都让我们在生命的最后时刻，无法拥有清晰的洞察。我们会老去，对衰老的恐惧，头脑的退化，所有这些东西。所以，我们需要现在就去了解什么是死亡，而不是明天再去了解它。如果你观察一下的话，你会发现思想并不想去思考死亡。思想会去思考所有它明天将要做的事情，建造桥梁，如何去发明新的东西，更好的浴室，所有这些思想可以去思考的东西，但是它却不想去思考死亡，因为它并不知道死亡的含义。而死亡的意义可以通过思想的过程来找到吗？我们是在一起分享着这一切吗？请一同分享它。当我们一起分享它时，我们就会开始看到这一切的美。但如果你们只是坐在那里，让演讲者不停地讲，然后听听他的话语，那么我们就没有在一起分享了。一起分享意味着带着某种关心、注意、情感与爱。而死亡是一个很重大的问题。年轻人也许会说：你为什么要去操心死亡的事情？因为这是他们生活的一部分，了解“独身”也是他们生活的一部分，而不只是说：你为什么要谈论独身？它是为那些老顽固准备的，它是为那些愚蠢的僧侣准备的。然而“独身”也是人类的问题之一，它并不是教士们，或者近代的天主教徒所发明的东西，这个问题已经持续了有五千年了：即独身意味着什么？
49:42	And also, that's part of life, can the mind be completely chaste? And not being able to find out how to live a chaste life, one takes vows of celibacy and goes through the tortures, the biological tortures. That is not celibacy. Celibacy is something entirely different. It is to have a mind that is free from all image, from all knowledge, which means understanding the whole process of pleasure and fear, which we went into the other day.	另外，下面这个也是生活的一部分：即头脑能否变得完全贞洁？因为无法发现如何去过一种贞洁的生活，于是我们发誓独身，然后去经受各种折磨，那些生物学上的折磨。这并不是独身。独身是某种截然不同的东西。 “独身”是拥有一颗摆脱了所有形象，所有知识的心灵，它意味着去了解快感和恐惧的全部过程 ——这个我们前几天已经探讨过了。
50:51	So similarly, one has to understand this thing called death. How do you proceed to understand something of which you are terribly frightened? Aren't most of us frightened of death? Or say, Thank God I'm going to die, I've had enough of this life with all the misery of it, the confusion, the shoddiness of it, the petty wrangles, the butchery, the brutality, the violence, all the mechanical things in which one is caught, thank God all this will end. That's not an answer. Or to rationalise death or to believe in some incarnation, as the whole Asiatic world does - reincarnation. To go into that, to find out what reincarnation means, which is to incarnate next life, to be born next life, you, to be born in a future existence. And to find out that, you must find out what you are now. What are you now, if you believe in reincarnation, what are you now? Lot of words, lot of experiences, knowledge, conditioned by various cultures, all the identifications of your life, your furniture, your house, your bank account, your experience of pleasure and pain, that's what you are, aren't you, remembrance of things, the failures, the hopes, the despairs, all that you are now. And that is going to be born next life. Lovely idea, isn't it?	所以同样的，我们必须去了解这个被称为“死亡”的事物。你要如何去了解某个你无比害怕的事物呢？我们绝大多数人不都是害怕死亡的吗？或者我们会说：感谢上帝，我快要死去了，我已经受够了这种生活，受够了它所有的痛苦，混乱、卑劣、无聊的争吵、屠杀、残忍和暴力，所有那些我们深陷其中的机械化的事物，感谢上帝，这一切终于要结束了。然而这并不是答案。或者我们会去把死亡合理化，或者去相信转世投胎，就像整个亚洲世界所做的一样 ——去相信轮回转世。要研究它，要发现轮回转世的含义 ——也就是在来世继续投胎做人，在来世再次出生，你将会在未来的世界中再次出生。要搞清楚它，你就必须先搞清楚你现在是什么样子的。你现在是什么样子的，如果你相信轮回转世，那么你现在是怎样的呢？一大堆文字，一大堆经验和知识，被各种文化所制约，所有那些你生活中的认同感，把自己认同于你的家具，你的房子，你的银行存款，你的那些快乐和痛苦的经历，这就是你们的样子，不是吗？那些回忆，那些失败，那些希望，那些绝望，所有这些就是你们现在的样子。而这些东西将会在来世再次诞生。很美妙的想法，不是吗？
53:51	Or you think there is a permanent soul, a permanent entity in you. Is there anything permanent in you? The moment you say there is a permanent soul, permanent entity, that entity is the result of your thinking, or the result of your hope, because there is so much insecurity, everything is transient, in a flux, in a movement. So when you say there is something permanent, that permanency is the result of your thinking. And thought is of the past. Thought is never free, it can invent anything it likes.	或者你们会认为存在着一个永恒的灵魂，某个你们内在的永恒之物。你们内在有任何永恒的东西吗？当你说有着一个永恒的灵魂，永恒的东西时，那个东西就是你思想的产物，或者它是你心中希望的产物，因为这个世界有着如此多的不安全，一切事物都是短暂的，不稳定的，处于运动变化之中。所以当你说存在着某种永恒之物时，那种永恒就是你思想的产物。而思想是属于过去的。思想永远不会有自由，但它可以发明出任何它喜欢的东西。
54:59	So, if you believe in the future birth, then you must know that the future is conditioned by the way you live now, what you do now, what you think, what your acts are, the way of your ethics. So what you are now, what you do now, matters tremendously. But those people who believe in the future birth don't give a pin what happens now, just a matter of belief.	因此，如果你们相信未来你们会再次出生，那么你们就必须知道，未来取决于你们现在的生活方式，你们现在的所作所为，取决于你们的想法，你们的行为，你们的道德标准，所以，你们现在的样子，你们现在所做的事，就变得极其重要了。然而那些相信未来再次出生的人们，却丝毫不在乎现在发生的一切，所以那仅仅只是一个信仰而已。
55:59	How do you find out what death means? Living with vitality, with energy, healthy, not when you're insane or unbalanced or ill, not at the last moment - now. How do you find out, knowing the organism will inevitably wear out? Like all machinery it must wear out, but unfortunately our machinery we use so disrespectfully, don't we? So, how do you find out what it means to die, knowing the physical organism comes to an end? Have you ever thought about this? Thought - you can't think about it - have you ever experimented with this, to find out what it means to die psychologically, inwardly. Not how to find immortality, because eternity, that which is timeless is now, not in some distant future. And to enquire into that one must understand the whole problem of time, not only the chronological time by the watch but the time that thought has invented as a gradual process of change.	你要如何去发现死亡意味着什么？那就是你要充满活力地去生活，充满能量，健康地去生活，不是当你疯了，精神错乱或者生病的时候去发现，不是在你生命最后的时刻去发现——而是现在就去发现。你要如何去发现呢？你知道机体组织必然会损耗殆尽。就像所有的机器一样，有机体必然会磨损殆尽，但不幸的是，我们是如此不敬地在使用我们自己这个机器，不是吗？所以，你们要如何去发现死亡意味着什么 ——在知道了身体组织终将消亡以后。你曾经思考过它吗？思考——你是无法去思考它的—— 应该是你是否曾经尝试过它，去发现心理上的死亡，内在的死亡，是什么意思？不是如何去发现永恒不朽，因为那个不受时间影响的永恒，它就是此刻，而不是存在于某个遥远的未来。而要去探询它，我们就必须了解那整个关于时间的问题，不只是钟表上的时间，也包括思想所发明的那种时间 ——那种作为逐渐改变的过程的时间。
58:31	So how does one find this strange thing that we'll all have to meet one day or another, how do you find out? Can one die psychologically today, die to everything that you have known? Take, for instance, one thing, to die to your pleasure, die to your attachment, your dependence, end it without arguing, without rationalising, without trying to find ways and means of avoiding it. You've understood my question? Not quite? You know what it means to die, not physically but psychologically, inwardly? Which means, to put an end to that which has continuity. You understand this? To put an end to your ambition, because that's what's going to happen when you die, won't it? You can't carry it over and sit next to God. When you die actually, you have to end so many things, without any argument. You can't say to death, hold on a minute, let me finish my job, let me finish my book, the things which I have not done, let me heal the hurts which I have given to others, you have no time.	所以，我们要如何去发现这个我们有朝一日都必须要面对的陌生的事物？你要如何去发现？我们能够今天就在心理上死去吗？让你所知道的一切事物都死去？就拿某个东西来举个例子吧，让你的快感死去，让你的执著死去，去终结你的依赖 ——没有争辩，没有合理化，也不试图去寻找任何避免它的途径和手段。你明白我的问题了吗？不是很明白？你知道死亡意味着什么，不是身体上的死亡，而是心理上的、内在的死亡？它意味着，去结束那个将会延续的事物。你明白它了吗？去结束你的野心，因为这（野心的结束）就是当你死亡时将会发生的事情，不是吗？你无法再继续带着你的野心，去坐在上帝旁边。当你真的死去时，你将不得不结束掉无数的事物 ——这是不容争辩的。你不可能对死亡说：稍微等一下，让我先完成我的工作，让我先把我的书写完，让我把那些还没完成的事情做完，让我去抚平我给别人所造成的伤害，你已经没时间了。
1:01:19	So to find out, to live a life now, today, in which there is always an ending, an ending to everything that you began, not your office, of course. But inwardly, to end all the knowledge that you have gathered, knowledge being your experience, your memories, your hurts, the pain, the comparative way of living, comparing ourselves always with somebody else. To end all that, every day, so that your mind the next day is fresh and young, and such a mind can never be hurt. That is innocency.	所以你要去发现那种生活，去过那种生活——就在此刻，就在今天—— 在这种生活中，时时刻刻都有着某种结束，结束掉所有你所开启的东西，当然了，并不是指你办公室的工作。而是结束掉那些内在的事物，去终结所有你积聚起来的知识，这些知识就是指你的经验、你的记忆，你的伤害，那些痛苦，那种互相比较的生活方式，总是拿我们自己去和别人比。要每一天都去结束掉所有这些东西，由此，第二天你的心灵就会变得焕然一新和年轻，而这样的心灵永远不会受伤。这就是纯真。
1:02:42	So one has to find out for oneself what it means to die, and therefore no fear, therefore every day is a new day, and I really mean this. One can do this, so that your mind and your eyes see life as something totally new. And that is eternity, that is the quality of a mind that has come upon this timeless state, because it has known what it means to die every day to everything that it has collected during the day. Then in that there is love, surely. Love is something totally new every day. But pleasure is not, pleasure has a continuity. Love is always new and therefore it is its own eternity.	所以，我们必须亲自去发现死亡意味着什么？这样我们就不会有恐惧，这样的话，每一天都是崭新的一天，我是说真的。我们是可以这样去做的，由此你的头脑和你的眼睛就会将生活视为某种完全崭新的事物。而这就是永恒，这就是那个邂逅了超越时间境界的心灵所具有的品质，因为它已经知晓了“每一天死去”意味着什么知晓了什么是“让它白天所收集的一切事物死去”。毫无疑问，在那之中就有着爱。爱是某种每一天都完全崭新的事物。但快感并不是这样的，快感具有延续性。爱则是永远常新的，因此它本身即是永恒。
1:04:24	Do you want to ask any questions?	你们想要问问题吗？
1:04:31	Questioner: Supposing through complete objective self-observation I find that I am greedy, sensual, selfish and all that, then how can I know whether this kind of living is good or bad unless I already have some preconceptions of the good? And if I have those preconceptions, they can be derived from self-observation.	提问者：假如我通过完全客观的自我观察，发现自己是贪婪的，肉欲的，自私的，等等，那么我又怎么知道这种生活到底是“善”还是“恶”呢 ——除非我对“善”已经有了先入之见？而要是我有了这些先入之见，它们也有可能是来自于自我观察的。
1:05:06	K: Quite right.	克：说的很对。
1:05:07	Q: Then I also find another difficulty, you seem to believe in sharing, but at the same time you say that two lovers or a husband and wife should not base their love on comfort, comforting each other. I don't see anything wrong in comforting each other, that is sharing.	提问者：然后我还有另一个不太懂的地方，你似乎很相信分享，但同时你也说，对于一对恋人，或者夫妻来说，他们不应该让自己的爱建立在为彼此提供舒适和安慰之上。可我并不觉得彼此安慰有什么错，这也是一种分享。
1:05:30	K: Right. The gentleman asks, one must have a concept of the good, otherwise why should one give up all this ambition, greed and envy, etc. That's part of the first question. You must have a concept of what is good, a formula of what is good. You can have a formula or a concept of what is better, but can you have a concept of what is good?	克：好的。这位先生在问：我必须要有一个关于“善”的概念，否则的话，我为什么要舍弃野心、贪婪、嫉妒等等这些东西呢？这是第一个问题的一部分。你必须要对“善”有一个概念，有一个准则。你可以对“更加善”有一个准则或概念，但你可以对“善”有一个概念吗？
1:06:36	Q: Yes, I think so.	提问者：可以，我觉得可以。
1:06:39	K: The gentleman says he thinks so. Can thought produce what is good?	克：这位先生说：他觉得可以。但思想能够制造出“善”吗？
1:06:51	Q: No, I meant the conception of such good.	提问者：不，我的意思是关于“善”的概念。
1:06:54	K: Yes, the conception of good is the product of thought, otherwise how can you conceive what is good?	克：没错，关于“善”的概念就是思想的产物，否则的话，你能够想象什么是“善”吗？
1:07:06	Q: But the conceptions cannot be derived from our self-observation.	提问者：但是这些概念是无法通过自我观察而得到的。
1:07:10	K: I'm just pointing that out. Why should you have a concept of the good at all?	克：我正要来指出这一点。你究竟为什么要持有一个关于“善”的概念呢？
1:07:17	Q: Then how do I know whether my living is good or bad?	提问者：不然的话我又怎么知道我的生活是善还是恶？
1:07:22	K: Then how do I know whether my living is good or bad. Just listen to the question. If I have no concept of what is good, how do I know what is good or bad in my life? Don't we know what conflict is? Do I have to have a concept of non-conflict before I understand conflict, before I am aware of conflict? I know what conflict is: the struggle, the pain, conflict. Don't I know that, without knowing a state where there is no conflict? And when I formulate what is good, I will formulate it according to my conditioning. According to my way of thinking, feeling, my peculiar idiosyncrasy, etc., cultural conditioning. And is the good to be projected by thought, and will thought then tell me what is good and bad in my life? Or goodness has nothing whatsoever to do with thought or with formula. Where does goodness flower, blossom? Do tell me. In the concept, in some future idea, in some ideal? That is, in the future. A concept means a future, tomorrow. It may be very far away or very close but it's still in time. And when you have a concept projected by thought, and thought being the response of memory, response of accumulated knowledge, depending on the culture in which you have lived, and do you find that goodness in the future, created by thought, or do you find it when you begin to understand conflict, pain, sorrow?	克：不然我又怎么知道我的生活是善还是恶。请听好这个问题。如果我没有关于“什么是善”的概念，我又怎么知道我生活中那些善与恶的事物呢？我们难道不知道什么是冲突吗？我难道一定要有一个关于“不冲突”的概念，然后才能了解冲突，觉察到冲突吗？我知道什么是冲突：斗争，痛苦，你知道的，那些冲突。尽管我并不知道那种没有冲突的状态，但我不也是知道冲突的吗？而当我去规定“什么是善”，我将会根据我的局限来规定它。根据我的思维方式，我的感觉，我特有的性格癖好，文化的局限等等来规定它。然而，“善”的概念是由思想所投射出来的吗？思想能够告诉我生活中什么是善，什么是恶吗？还是说“善”和思想，和准则是毫无关系的。 “善”会在哪里开花？会在哪里绽放？请告诉我。是在概念中吗？是在某个未来的理念中吗？是在某个理想中吗？也就是说，它是存在于未来中的。概念就意味着未来，意味着明天。它也许很遥远，也许离我们很近，但它仍旧是落入于时间中的。而当你有了一个思想所投射的概念时 ——思想就是记忆的反应，就是积累起来的知识的反应，它取决于你所生活于其中的文化，而你会在未来之中找到“善”吗？ ——那个未来是思想所创造的，还是说，要找到它，你需要着手去了解冲突、痛苦和悲伤？
1:10:52	So in the understanding of what is, not comparing what is with what should be, but actually what is, then in that understanding flowers goodness. Surely goodness has nothing whatsoever to do with thought, has it? Has love got anything to do with thought? Can you cultivate love by saying, my ideal of love is that, formulate it beautifully, and cultivate it? Do you know what happens when you cultivate love? You're not loving. You will think you will have love on some future date, in the meantime you are being violent, etc. So, is goodness the product of thought, is love the product of experience, of knowledge? And the second question?	因此，就在了解真实现状的过程中 ——不是拿现状和“应该怎样”去比较，而是真实的现状是什么，然后，就在那种了解中，善就会开花。毫无疑问，善与思想没有任何的关系，它有吗？爱和思想有任何关系吗？你能够去培养爱吗？说：我理想中的爱是怎样怎样的，把它规划得很美好，然后去培养它？你知道当你培养爱的时候会发生什么吗？那时你并没有在爱。你认为你将会在未来的某一天拥有爱，然而在此期间，你依然是暴力的，等等。所以，“善”是思想的产物吗？爱是经验和知识的产物吗？第二个问题是什么来着？
1:12:24	Q: The second question was about sharing in relation to comfort.	提问者：第二个问题是关于分享的，关于分享安慰与舒适。
1:12:32	K: Sharing. Companionship. What do you share? What are we sharing now? We talked about death, we talked about love, we talked about the necessity of total revolution, psychologically, complete change, not live in the old pattern of formulas, of struggle, pain, imitation, conformity, etc., which man has lived in for millennia, and produced this marvellous, messy world. We've talked about death, how do we share that thing together? Share the understanding of it, not the verbal statements of it, not the description of it, not the explanation of it, which are all verbal, but share, what does that mean? Share the understanding, share the truth of it. The truth which comes with the understanding of this. So, what does understanding mean? When do you understand? You tell me something which is serious, which is vital, which is relevant, which is important, and I listen to it, I listen to it completely, because it's vital to me. And to listen so vitally my mind must be quiet. If I am chattering, if I am looking somewhere else, if I am comparing what you are saying with what I know, my mind is not quiet. It's only when my mind is quiet and listens completely, then there is understanding, the understanding of the truth of the thing. That we share together, otherwise we can't share. We can't share the words, we can only share the truth of something, when you and I see the truth of something. And that can be seen only when your mind is totally committed to the observation.	克：分享。陪伴。你们分享的是什么？现在我们在分享的是什么？我们谈论了死亡，我们谈论了爱，我们谈论了彻底革命的必要性，心理上的彻底的改变，不再生活于旧有的模式中——那些规则，那些斗争、痛苦、模仿、遵从等等，人类已经在它们之中生活了几千年了，然后我们创造出了这个惊人的，混乱肮脏的世界。我们已经谈论了死亡，那么我们要如何一起来分享这个东西呢？分享对它的了解，而不是对它口头上的陈述，也不是对它的描述，或者对它的解释，所有这些都是口头文字上的东西，我们要去分享，那么这意味着什么呢？去分享我们的了解，去分享关于它的真相。真相是伴随着对它的了解而来的。那么，了解又是什么意思呢？你什么时候才会了解？你告诉了我一些东西，这些东西是很严肃的，是生死攸关的，是意义重大的，是非常重要的，我聆听它，我全神贯注地聆听它，因为它对我来说是生死攸关的事情。而要如此充满活力地去聆听它，我的头脑就必须安静下来。如果我在喋喋不休，如果我在看着别处，如果我在拿你所说的东西和我所知道的东西作比较，那么我的头脑就不是安静的。然而只有当我的头脑安静下来，去全神贯注地聆听，那时才会产生了解，了解那个事物的真相。而这就是我们要一起分享的东西，否则的话，我们是无法分享的。我们无法分享文字的描述，我们只能去分享某个事物的事实真相，因为你和我都看到了那个事物的真相。而要看到真相，你的头脑就必须完全致力于观察。
1:16:11	To share with a friend the beauty of a sunset, to see the lovely hills and the shadows and the moonlight, how do you share it, by telling him, do look at that marvellous hill? You may say it, but is that sharing? When do you actually share something? Which means to share something with another, both of them must have the same intensity at the same time, at the same level. Otherwise you can't share, can you? You must both have the common interest with the same intensity at the same level, with the same passion, otherwise how can you share something? You can share a piece of bread, I'll give you half a bread, but that's not what we're talking about.	与你的朋友分享一次日落的美丽，去欣赏那优美的山川，欣赏那阴影，欣赏那月光，那么你要如何去分享它呢？难道只是告诉他说，好好看一下这不可思议的山川吧？你可以这么去说，但这是分享吗？什么时候你们才能够真正分享某个东西？那意味着，要与另一个人分享某事物，你们两人必须要有同样强烈的热情 ——在同一时间，同一层次上。否则你们是无法去分享的，你们可以吗？你们两个必须要有共同的兴趣，带着同一层次上的同样强烈的热情，同样强烈的激情，否则你们又怎么可能去分享某个东西呢？你们可以去分享一块面包，比如我给你半块面包，但我们在说的并不是这个。
1:17:44	And to see together, which is, sharing together, we must both of us see, not agree or disagree but see together what actually is, not interpret it according to my stupid conditioning or your conditioning, but see together what it is. And to see together one must be free to observe, one must be free to listen. And that means no prejudice, I must cease to be a Hindu totally. Then only with that quality of love there is sharing.	而要一起去看见它 ——也就是一起去分享它——我们两人都必须要看到那个东西，不是去同意或者反对，而是一起去看到那个事实现状，不要去诠释它 ——根据我自己愚蠢的局限或者你的局限去解释它—— 而是一起去看那个“事实”。而要一起去看，我们必须要能够自由地去观察，自由地去聆听。而这意味着没有任何偏见，我必须彻底摆脱自己印度教徒的身份。只有那时，带着这种爱的品质，我们才会有分享。
1:18:55	Q: How can one quiet the mind or free the mind from interruptions of the past?	提问者：我们要如何平息头脑，或者解放头脑，使之不再受到过去的干扰呢？
1:19:02	K: You've understood the question so I won't repeat it. I don't know if there is time to go into this. You cannot quieten the mind, full stop. Those are tricks. You can take a pill and make the mind quiet. You cannot, absolutely, make the mind quiet, because you are the mind. Right? You can't say, I will make my mind quiet. Therefore one has to understand what meditation is, actually, not what other people say mediation is, that's stupid, but to find out whether the mind can ever be quiet, not how to make the mind quiet. Therefore one has to go into this whole question of knowledge and whether the mind, which includes the brain, whether the brain cells, which are loaded with all the past memories, whether those brain cells can be absolutely quiet, and come into function when necessary and when not necessary be completely and wholly quiet. Perhaps we can talk about that tomorrow when we discuss what meditation is, shall we? Because it would take too long.	克：我想你们已经听懂了这个问题，所以我就不再重复它了。我不知道还有没有时间来探讨这个问题。你是无法让头脑安静下来，使之完全停止的。那只是一些伎俩罢了。你可以吃片药，让头脑平静下来。但你自己是绝对不可能让头脑变得安静的，因为你就是头脑。对吗？你不可能去说“我将会让我的头脑变得安静”。因此，我们必须要去了解什么是冥想？真正的冥想，而不是其他人口中所说的冥想 ——那是很愚蠢的，我们要去发现头脑是否可能安静下来，而不是如何让头脑变得安静。因此，我们必须去探讨那整个的关于知识的问题，以及是否头脑——头脑也包括了大脑，是否大脑细胞 ——大脑细胞装载着所有过去的记忆—— 这些脑细胞是否可以彻底安静下来，只在需要它们的时候去运作，而在不需要它们的时候，则保持彻底、完全的安静？也许我们可以在明天当我们讨论什么是冥想的时候再来探讨它，可以吗？因为这个问题需要花费很长时间。
1:21:41	Q: Sir, I have a question.	提问者：先生，我有一个问题。
1:21:43	K: Beg your pardon?	克：对不起，请再说一次好吗？
1:21:49	Q: Sir, I have a question. You were talking about the sharing of experience. Well, I believe in the sharing of the experience of sex. And I would like to know what you feel about living a life in a state of marriage as opposed to living a life of promiscuity.	提问者：先生，我有一个问题。你刚才谈论了经验的分享。然而，我相信性经验也是可以分享的。我想知道你是怎么看待婚姻生活，以及与之相反的（男女）乱交生活的。
1:22:16	K: I haven't understood your question, sir. I am sorry. Would you speak a little clearer or make it shorter?	克：我不明白你的问题，先生。很抱歉。你可以说得更清楚一些，或者更简洁一些吗？
1:22:28	Q: Well, I believe in sharing the experience of sex. Like you share the experience of a sunset with someone, well, you share the experience of sex also with someone. So, I would like to know, do you believe in sharing a life in the state of a marriage?	提问者：好吧，我相信性经验也是可以分享的，就像你与某人分享一次日落的经验，所以，你也可以与别人分享性的体验。因此，我想知道的是，你是否相信在婚姻状态下也可以去分享那种生活？
1:22:59	K: Have you understood? I don't quite – sharing sex? But you are sharing sex, aren't you? I don't understand the question.	克：你们听懂了吗？我不是很明白——分享性体验？但你们就是在分享着性体验，不是吗？我不明白这个问题。
1:23:12	K: What, madame?	克：这位夫人，你说什么？
1:23:14	Q: Is celibacy a condition of love?	提问者：独身是否是拥有爱的必要条件？
1:23:18	K: What, sir? Q: May I ask a question?	克：你说什么？先生。提问者：我可以问个问题吗？
1:23:21	K: You can ask anything you like.	克：你可以问任何你想问的东西。
1:23:27	Q: May I ask a question from the balcony, sir?	提问者：先生，我可以在楼座上问个问题吗？
1:23:37	K: Go ahead, sir.	克：你问吧。
1:23:38	Q: Why has time come into existence? Is it the rhythm of cosmic love?	提问者：时间为什么会产生？它是一种宇宙之爱的韵律吗？
1:23:47	K: Oh no, sir. I can't tell you, better ask the scientists. No, just listen, sir. Please, if I may most respectfully suggest, don't ask theoretical questions.	克：噢，不，先生。这个我没法告诉你，你最好还是去问那些科学家。不，先生，请听好。如果我可以很恭敬地建议一下的话，请不要问那些纯理论的问题。
1:24:11	Q: Sir, when you speak of relationships, you speak always of a man and a woman, or a girl and a boy. Would the same things you say about relationships also apply to a man and a man, or a woman and a woman?	提问者：先生，当你谈到关系的时候，你谈论的总是男人和女人之间的关系，或者男女朋友之间的关系。而你对于关系的那些解释论述，是否同样也适用于男人和男人之间的关系，或者女人与女人之间的关系？
1:24:25	K: Homosexuality.	克：同性恋。
1:24:27	Q: If you wish to give that name, yes.	提问者：是的——如果你喜欢用这个名称的话。
1:24:34	K: When we are talking about love, whether it's man-man, woman-woman or man-woman, we're not talking of a particular kind of relationship. We're talking about the whole movement of relationship, not with one or two, the whole sense of relationship. Don't you know what it means to be related to the world, when you feel you are the world? Not as an idea, that's appalling, but actually to feel that you are responsible, that you are committed to this responsibility. And that's the only commitment, not committed through bombs or committed to a particular activity but to feel that you are the world and the world is you. Unless you change completely, radically, bring about a total mutation in yourself, do what you will outwardly, there will be no peace for man. If you feel that in your blood, then your questions will be related entirely to the present and bringing about a change in the present, not in some speculative, idiotic ideals. Sorry.	克：当我们谈论爱的时候，不管它是男人之间的爱，女人之间的爱，还是男女之间的爱，我们并不是在谈论某种特定的关系。我们在谈论的是关系的全部运动，不是和一两个人的关系，而是整个关系。你们难道不知道与这个世界产生关联意味着什么吗 ——那时你会感到你就是世界？不是把它当成一个理念，这是很可怕的事，而是真切地感到你是负有责任的，你需要去承担这种责任。这才是唯一的献身，不是通过炸弹来献身，或者献身于某种活动，而是去感受到你就是世界，而这个世界就是你。所以除非你能彻底地、完全地改变，让自己内在产生一种完全的突变，否则不管你采取何种外在的行动，都无法带来人类的和平。如果你无比深切地感受到了它，那么你的问题就会完全和当下，以及当下的改变相关，而不是某种猜测性的、愚蠢的理想。很抱歉这么说。
1:26:28	Q: The last time we were together you were telling us that if someone has a painful experience and it's not fully faced or it's avoided, it goes into the unconscious as a fragment. How are we to free ourselves from these fragments of painful and fearful experiences so that the past won't have a grip on us?	提问者：上一次我们在一起的时候，你告诉我们如果某人有了一段痛苦的经历，但他并没有去充分面对它，或者只是逃避了它的话，那么这段痛苦经历便会进入到无意识中，而成为一个碎片。那么我们要如何让自己摆脱掉那些碎片呢 ——那些痛苦和恐惧经历的碎片—— 从而使得过去不会牢牢掌控我们？
1:26:46	K: How does one free oneself from this conditioning?	克：我们要如何让自己摆脱这种局限？
1:26:53	Q: Yes, painful experiences.	提问者：是的，摆脱痛苦的经历。
1:26:56	K: Yes, that is conditioning. Is it time to stop? Q: No.	克：对，它（痛苦的经历）就是一种局限。是不是到时间了？提问者：还没有。
1:27:10	K: How does one free oneself from this conditioning. Good enough, let's take that. How do I free myself from my conditioning, of a culture in which I was born, as a Hindu, as a Brahmin, etc., or as a Catholic, Protestant or a Baptist and God knows what else. How do I free myself from this vast propaganda? First, I must be aware of it that I am conditioned. Not somebody tells me that I am conditioned. You understand the difference? If somebody tells me I'm hungry, that's something different from actually being hungry. So, I must be aware of my conditioning, which means I must be aware of my conditioning not only superficially but at the deeper levels. That is, I must be aware totally. First of all, to be so aware means that I am not trying to go beyond the conditioning. I am not trying to be free of the conditioning. I must see it as it actually is, not bring in another element which is wanting to be free, because that is an escape from actuality. You are following this? So, I must be aware. What does that mean? Aware totally, not partially, of my conditioning as a Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, communist, and all that. That means my mind must be highly sensitive, otherwise I can't be aware, can I, sensitive? That means I must observe very closely everything around me, the colour, the depth, the quality of people, things around me. And I must also be aware without any choice what actually is my conditioning. Can you do that? Not trying to interpret it, not trying to change it, not trying to go beyond it or try to be free of it, just to be totally aware of it. Do you want me to go into it?	克：我要如何让自己摆脱这种局限呢？很好，让我们来看看它吧。我要如何让自己摆脱掉我的局限，摆脱掉我所出生于其中的文化 ——我是印度教徒，我是婆罗门等等，或者我是一名天主教徒、新教徒、浸信会教友，或者天知道什么其他东西。我要如何让自己挣脱这种巨大的传道？首先，我必须要觉察到我是局限的。而不是让别人来告诉我我是局限的。你们明白这两者的区别吗？要是别人告诉我说：你饿了，这和我自己真的饿了是不一样的。所以，我必须要觉察到我的局限，这意味着，我必须不仅觉察到我表面上的局限，也要觉察到我深层次的局限。也就是说，我必须要完整地去觉察。首先，要这样去觉察，它意味着我没有试图去超越那种局限。我并没有试图去摆脱那个局限。我必须如实地去观察它，而不是再引入一个“想要自由解脱”的元素进来，因为这只是一种对真实现状的逃避。你们明白它了吗？所以，我必须要去觉察，这里的觉察是什么意思？去觉察整体，而不是部分，去觉察我的局限——我作为一个犹太教徒、印度教徒、佛教徒、或者共产主义者等等的局限。这意味着我的头脑必须是高度敏感的，否则的话，我是无法去觉察的，对吗？要敏感。这意味着我必须要非常密切地去观察我周围的一切事物，它们的色彩，它们深层的意义，人们的特质，那些我周围的事物。而我也必须毫无选择地去觉察我真实的局限是什么。你能够这样做吗？不试图去解释它，也不试图去改变它，不试图去超越它或者摆脱它，只是完全地去觉察它。你们想要我来深入探讨这一点吗？
1:30:58	K: You have time and the energy?	克：你们是否有这时间与精力呢？
1:31:00	A: Yes.	听众：有。
1:31:01	K: Don't clap, it's all right, I'll go on. When you observe a tree, there is between you and the tree, time and space, isn't there? And there is also knowledge about the tree, the botanical knowledge of the tree, the distance between you and the tree, which is time, and the separation which comes through knowledge of the tree. To look at that tree without knowledge, without the time quality. Which doesn't mean identifying yourself with the tree. To do that, that is, to observe a tree so attentively that the boundaries of time don't come into it at all. The boundaries of time come in only when you have knowledge about the tree. You see that? Am I complicating it?	克：请不要鼓掌，好吧，我继续讲。当你观察一棵树的时候，你和树之间存在着时间与空间，不是吗？你同样也有着关于那棵树的知识，关于那棵树的植物学上的知识，你和那棵树之间有着距离 ——也就是时间，以及经由关于那棵树的知识而产生的分离感。现在，你要不带着知识，不带着时间的特质去观察那棵树 ——这并不意味着把你自己认同于那棵树。要这样做，也就是说，去如此全然关注地观察那棵树，使得时间的界限完全不会出现。时间的界限之所以会出现，是因为你有着关于那棵树的知识。你明白它了吗？我是不是说得有点复杂了？
1:32:39	Q: No.	提问者：没有。
1:32:41	Q: Yes.	提问者：是的。
1:32:52	K: I'll bring it nearer. To look at your wife or your friend or your boy, girl, or your man and man, or whatever it is - please don't waste time laughing, it isn't worth it - to look without the image. The image is the past, isn't it? The past which has been put together by thought, as nagging, bullying, dominating, insult, the images that one builds about another, the pleasure, and all that. Now, to look at another without the image. It is the image that separates, it's the image that gives distance, the time. So, the image is the knowledge which you have accumulated as the past. Now, to look without that image, to look at that tree or the flower or the cloud or the wife or the husband, the boy, and so on, man and man, to look without the image. If you can do that then you can observe your conditioning totally. Then you look at it with a mind that is not spotted by the past, and therefore the mind itself is free of the conditioning. To look at myself, we generally do as an observer looking at the observed, myself as the observed and the observer looking at it. The observer is the knowledge, is the past, is the time, the accumulated experiences. He separates himself from the thing observed. Now, to look without the observer. And you do this. You do this when you are completely attentive. You know what it means to be attentive? Don't go to school to learn to be attentive. To be attentive here, it means to listen without any interpretation, without any judgment, just to listen. When you are so listening there is no boundary. There is no you listening, there is only a state of listening. So when you observe your conditioning, the conditioning exists only in the observer, not in the observed. Right? So to look without the observer, without the me, his fears, his anxieties, etc., then you will see, if you so look, you enter into a totally different dimension.	克：让我说得更贴近生活一点吧，当你看着你的妻子，你的朋友，你的男友、女友，你的男人，或者无论是谁时 ——请不要浪费时间去笑了，这并不值得—— 你要不带着形象地去看他们。形象就是过去，不是吗？而这个过去是由思想所拼凑起来的 ——那些唠叨、欺凌、支配、侮辱，我们所建立起来的关于另一个人的形象，那些快感，所有这些东西。而现在，我们要不带着形象去观察他人。因为正是形象造成了分离，正是形象带来了距离，时间。所以，形象就是知识 ——那种你所积累起来的，成为了“过去”的知识。而现在，你们要去看而不带有那个形象，去看那棵树或者那朵花，去看白云，或者妻子、丈夫、男朋友、男人等等，去看他们，而不带有形象。如果你可以这样做，那么你就可以完整完全地去观察你的局限了。那时你就是在用一个未被过去所玷污的头脑在看它，由此，头脑本身就摆脱了局限。当我们观察自己的时候，我们一般都是作为一个观察者，然后去看那个被观察物，那个被观察物就是我自己，然后这个观察者去看它。这个观察者就是知识，就是过去，就是时间，它是积累下来的经验。他把自己和被观察物分开。而现在，你要去看而不带着那个观察者。你可以这样去做。当你保持全然关注的时候，你就可以做到它了。你知道全然关注是什么意思吗？不要去学校学习什么全然关注。就在这里保持全然关注，它意味着去聆听，聆听而没有任何解释，没有任何判断，只是去聆听。当你如此去聆听时，便不会有界限。并没有一个“你”在聆听，存在的只有那种聆听的状态。因此当你观察你的局限时，（你会发现）局限只存在于那个观察者身上，而不是在那个被观察物中。对吗？所以，去看而不要带着那个观察者，不要带着那个“我”，带着他的恐惧、他的焦虑，等等这些东西，如果你能这样去看，你就会发现自己进入了一个完全不同的维度。