克里希那穆提 - 心能安静下来吗？

Krishnamurti Subtitles

NY71T4 - 心能安静下来吗？
第四次公开讲话
美国，纽约
1971年4月25日

0:31	Krishnamurti: I think we said that we would talk over together a very complex problem, which is, if there is a religious experience, and what are the implications of meditation. If one observes, right throughout the world, man has always, it appears, been seeking something beyond his own death, his own problems, something that will be enduring, true and timeless. He's called it God, he's given it so many names, and most of us believe in something of that kind without ever actually experiencing.	克里希那穆提（以下简称克）：我想我们之前说过，我们会来一起讨论一个非常复杂的问题，也就是：是否存在着一种宗教体验？以及冥想的含义是什么？如果我们观察一下的话，纵观全世界，人类好像一直都在寻找着某种超越他自身死亡，自身问题的事物，某种持久、真实和永恒的东西。他把它称之为“上帝”，他给了它如此多的名字，而我们大多数人都相信某种此类的事物，尽管我们并没有真正体验过它。
2:29	Various religions throughout the world have promised that if you believed in certain forms of rituals, dogmas, saviours, you might, if you lead a certain kind of life, come upon this strange thing called whatever name one likes to give to it. And those who have directly experienced it, either experience it according to their conditioning, to their belief, according to their environmental, cultural influence. If you are born in India you have the various forms of beliefs, gods, and all the rest of that. If you are born in the West, again you are conditioned by propaganda of two thousand years, and one is caught in a series of beliefs, dogmas and rituals.	全世界各种不同的宗教都承诺说，如果你相信某种形式的仪式、教条和救世主，并且去过某种特定的生活，那么你也许就可以偶遇这个奇妙之物 ——不管你们喜欢把它叫做什么名字。而对于那些直接体验过它的人来说，他们对它的体验也是取决于自身的局限，自身的信仰，取决于他们身处的环境与文化的影响。如果你出生在印度，你就会有各种形式的信仰与神明，等等这些东西。如果你出生在西方世界，你同样也会受到传道的制约 ——两千年以来传道的制约，我们陷入于一系列的信仰、教条和宗教仪式中。
4:23	And apparently religion has lost its meaning, because there have been religious wars, religion doesn't answer all our problems, religions have separated man, Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, and so on, it has brought about some kind of civilising influence, but radically it has not changed man. And when one begins to enquire if there is such a thing as religious experience, and what is that experience, and why does one call it religious, if one goes into it, obviously one must first have a great deal of honesty. Not to be honest to a principle or a belief or to any form of commitment but to see things exactly as they are, without any distortion, not only outwardly but also inwardly, never to deceive oneself. For deception is quite easy if one craves for some kind of experience, call it religious or otherwise, take a trip and so on, then you are bound to be caught in some kind of illusion, or experience according to your conditioning.	很显然，宗教已经失去了它的意义，因为我们曾经有过宗教战争，宗教并没有给出我们所有问题的解答，宗教已经分裂了人类，天主教徒、新教徒、印度教徒、佛教徒等等，它带来了某种“文明化”的影响，但是它并没有从根本上改变人类。我们开始询问是否存在着“宗教体验”这种东西？那种体验是什么？以及为什么我们要把它称之为宗教性的？如果我们去探究它的话，很显然，我们首先必须要非常诚实。不是对某种主义、信仰，或者某种形式的献身诚实，而是要如实地去看待事物而没有任何的曲解，不仅外在没有曲解，内心也没有曲解，永远不要欺骗自己。因为欺骗是相当容易的，要是你渴望某种经验 ——你可以把它称之为宗教经验或者其他什么经验，那么你可以进行一次朝圣之旅，等等，然后你必然会陷入于某种错觉中，或者陷入于根据你的局限而来的经验中。
7:13	But to find out for oneself, if one can, what is the religious experience, one needs a great sense of humility and honesty, which means never to ask for experience, never to demand for oneself a reality or experience or an achievement. So one has to look very closely at one's own desires, attachments, fears, and understand them wholly, if one can, so that the mind is in no way distorted, so that there will be no illusion, no deception. And one has to ask also, what does it mean to experience?	但如果你想要亲自去发现——如果你可以这么做的话—— 什么是“宗教体验”？那么你就需要非常谦逊，非常诚实，那意味着，永远不去要求获得某种经验，永远不去请求让自己获得某种真实、体验，或者说是成就。所以我们必须要非常密切地去观察我们自己的种种欲望、执著和恐惧，如果可以的话，去完全彻底地了解它们，这样的话，头脑就不会有任何扭曲，由此便不会有幻觉，也不会有欺骗了。而我们也必须要问一下，经验是什么意思？
9:13	I do not know if you have gone into that question at all. Most of us are tired, bored with the usual experiences of every day. We are tired of them all and the more one is sophisticated, the more one is intellectual, one wants to live only in the present, whatever that may mean, and invent a philosophy of the present. But to find out for oneself what it means to experience, the word itself means to go through, to finish, to go right to the end and finish with it. But unfortunately, for most of us, every experience leaves a scar, a memory, pleasant or unpleasant, and we want only to retain the pleasant ones. And when we are asking for any kind of spiritual, religious, or transcendental experience, we are trying to find out, aren't we, whether, first of all, there is such an experience, and also what experience itself means. If you experience something and you cannot recognise that experience then that experience ceases to be. One of the essential meanings of experience is recognition, and when there is recognition it has already been known, already been experienced, otherwise you cannot possibly recognise.	我不知道你们究竟有没有深入过这个问题。我们大多数人都疲惫不堪，感到厌烦无聊，那种例行公事般的日常生活让我们疲惫厌倦。我们已经厌烦了这一切，而我们越是久经世故，越是有文化，我们就越想要只活在当下 ——不管“活在当下”是什么意思，然后去发明出一种关于“当下”的哲学。但是，我们需要亲自去发现“经验”是什么意思， “经验”这个词本身的意思是“通过”，去结束，走到最后并且终结它。但不幸的是，对我们绝大多数人来说，每一个经验都留下了一道伤疤，一个记忆 ——快乐的记忆或者不快乐的记忆，而我们只想保留那些快乐的记忆。当我们要求任何精神上的、宗教上的，或者先验的经验时，我们所试图去搞清楚的首先就是，是否存在着这样一种经验，以及这种经验本身意味着什么，不是吗？如果你经历了某个事物，但却无法识别那种经验的话，那么那个经验就不复存在了。经验的本质含义之一就是识别（recognition），然而当有了识别，它就已经是已知之物，是那种已经被经历过的事物了，否则的话，你是不可能识别它的。
12:20	So, when they talk about religious experience, spiritual experience, or that word which is so misused - transcendental experience - you must have already known it to be able to recognise that you are experiencing something other than the ordinary experience, that seems so logical and true, that the mind must be able to recognise, and recognition implies something which you have already known, therefore it is not new. And when you are wanting more experience in the religious field, either you want it because you have not solved your problems, your daily anxieties, despairs and fears and sorrows, and therefore you are wanting something more. And in that demand for the more, lies deception. I think, again, that's fairly logical and true. Not that logic is always true but when one uses logic, reason, healthily, sanely, one knows the limitation of reason. And the demand for wider, deeper, more fundamental experiences only leads to further extension of this past of the known. I think that is clear and I hope we are communicating, sharing with each other.	因此，当人们谈论宗教体验、精神体验，或者这个被如此滥用的词语 ——先验体验的时候，你必须已经知晓了它，知道它是可以被识别的，知道你正在经历某种不同于平常经验的事物，这看起来是非常符合逻辑和正确的，那就是头脑必须能够去识别，而识别则暗示着它是某种你已经知道的事物，因此，这个事物并不是全新的。当你想要更多的宗教领域的经验时，你之所以想要它，是因为你还没有解决你自身的问题，你的日常生活中的焦虑、绝望、恐惧和悲伤，因此你想要某种“更多”的东西。而在要求“更多”事物之中，就隐藏着欺骗。同样的，我认为这也是相当符合逻辑和正确的。并不是说逻辑永远都是正确的，而是当我们使用逻辑和理性时 ——健康地、理智地使用它时，我们就会发现理性的局限之处了。而要求更宽广、更深刻、更为根本性的经验，它们只会进一步地扩展延伸那已知的过去。我认为这是很清楚的，我希望我们是在彼此交流和分享着。
14:58	Then also in this religious enquiry, one is seeking, one is seeking to find out what truth is, if there is a reality, if there is such a thing as a state of mind that is beyond time. Search again implies a seeker, doesn't it? And what is he seeking? How will he know that which he has found in his search is true? Again, if he finds what is true, at least what he thinks is true, that depends on his conditioning, on his past, on his knowledge, on his past experiences, and search then merely becomes a further projection of his own past, hopes and fears and longings.	然后，在这种宗教的询问中，我们也在寻找，我们寻找是为了去发现什么是真理？是否存在着某种真实？是否存在着一种超越时间的心灵状态？同样的，寻找就暗示了有着一个寻找者，不是吗？那么他在寻找什么呢？他又怎么知道他在寻找过程中所发现的东西是真实的呢？此外，要是他找到了那个真实之物 ——至少他认为它是真实的，这个真实之物也是取决于他的局限、他的过去、他的知识，和他过去的经验的，所以寻找仅仅成为了一种他自己的过去、希望、恐惧和渴望的进一步的投射。
16:50	So a mind that is enquiring, not seeking, a mind that is enquiring without wanting experience must be totally free of these two, that is, the demand for experience and the search for truth. One can see why, because when you are seeking, you go to various teachers, various books, join various cults, follow various gurus, teachers, etc., like window shopping. And such search has no meaning whatsoever.	所以，一个在询问的心灵 ——而不是一个在寻找的心灵，一个在询问的，并且不渴求经验的心灵，必须要彻底摆脱掉这两者：也就是对经验的需求，以及对真理的寻找。我们可以看到这其中的原因：因为你在寻找，你去找各种老师，各种书籍，加入各种教派，追随各种古鲁、老师等等，就像逛商店一样。而这种寻找是没有任何意义的。
18:04	So, when you are enquiring into this question: what is a religious mind, and what is a quality of mind that is no longer experiencing anything at all, and can the mind be free from the demand for experience and completely end all seeking but only investigate without any motive, without any purpose, the fact of time and if there is a timeless state. To enquire into that, which means no belief whatsoever, not committed to any religion, to any so-called spiritual organisation, not following any guru, therefore no authority whatsoever, including that of the speaker especially. Because you are very easily influenced, terribly gullible, though you may be sophisticated, know a great deal, but you are always eager, always wanting and therefore gullible.	因此，你要去探询这个问题：即什么是宗教心灵？一个完全不再经验任何事物的心灵具有怎样的品质？心灵能否摆脱掉对于经验的需求，彻底结束所有的寻找，而只是去探究，没有任何动机，没有任何目的地去探究时间的真相，以及是否存在着一种超越时间的状态。要探询这个问题，就意味着必须没有任何信仰，也不献身于任何宗教，以及任何所谓的灵性组织，不跟从任何古鲁，由此也就没有任何权威，特别是演讲者（注：指克自己）这个权威。因为你们都很容易受到影响，也非常容易上当受骗，尽管你们也许久经世故，知识渊博，但你们却总是在渴望，总是在欲求，所以就容易受骗。
20:44	So, a mind that is enquiring into the question of what is religion, must be free entirely of any form of belief, any form of fear, because fear, as we explained the other day, is a distorting factor, bringing about violence, aggression. Therefore a mind that is enquiring into the quality of a religious state, movement, must be free of this, and that demands great honesty and a great sense of humility.	因此，当头脑在探询关于 “什么是宗教？”的问题时，它必须要彻底摆脱掉任何形式的信仰，和任何形式的恐惧，因为就如我们不久前曾经解释过的，恐惧是一种造成扭曲的因素，它导致了暴力和侵略性。因此，当头脑去探询那种宗教状态，那种运动所具有的品质时，它必须要摆脱掉这些东西，而这需要极度的诚实，极度的谦虚感。
21:48	For most of us, vanity is one of the major impediments, because we think we know, because we have read a great deal, we have committed ourselves, we have practiced this or that system, followed some guru peddling his philosophy. And we think we know, at least a little bit, and that's the beginning of vanity. And when you are enquiring into such an extraordinary question there must be the freedom of actually not knowing a thing about it. You really don't know, do you? You don't know what truth is, what God is, if there is such thing, or what is a truly religious mind. You have read about it, people have talked for millennia, built monasteries, but actually they are living on other people's knowledge, experience, propaganda. Surely one must put aside all that completely, mustn't one, to find out? Therefore the enquiry into this is a very, very serious matter. And if you want to play with all this there are all kinds of entertainments, so-called spiritual, religious entertainments, but they have no value whatsoever to a serious mind.	对我们多数人来说，自大是最主要的障碍之一，因为我们觉得自己知道，因为我们读过了很多东西，我们已经奉献了自己，我们已经练习了这个或者那个体系，跟随某个古鲁，然后沿街叫卖他的哲学思想。我们认为自己知道 ——至少觉得自己知道一点东西，而这就是自大的开始。当你去探询这样一个非凡的问题时，你必须要有一种自由，这种自由就在于你实际上对它一无所知。你其实并不知道，对吗？你并不知道什么是真理，什么是上帝，是否存在着这类东西，以及什么才是真正宗教性的心灵？你只是读过一些关于它的东西，人们已经谈论了它有几千年了，人们建造了那些修道院，然而实际上，他们是依靠其他人的知识、经验和宣传而活的。毫无疑问，我们必须要将这一切东西彻底抛弃，不是吗？这样我们才能去发现。因此，探询这个问题是一件非常非常严肃的事情。而如果你只是想玩玩它的话，那么有各种娱乐在等着你 ——那些所谓的“灵性娱乐”和“宗教娱乐”，但是对于一个严肃认真的心灵来说，它们是没有任何价值的。
24:35	To enquire into what is a religious mind, one must not only, as we explained yesterday, be free of our conditioning, be free of our Christianity, of our Buddhism, Hinduism, with all the propaganda of five thousand or two thousand years, so the mind is really free to observe. That's very difficult because we are afraid to be alone, to stand alone, because we want security both outwardly and inwardly, therefore we depend on people, whether it's the priest or the new leader or the guru who says he knows, or he says, I have experienced therefore I know. So one has to stand completely alone, not isolated, there is a vast difference between isolation and being completely alone, integral. Isolation is a state of mind in which relationship ceases, when actually through your daily life and activity you have built a wall around yourself, consciously or unconsciously, not to be hurt. That isolation obviously prevents every form of relationship, which we went into, somewhat, yesterday evening. And aloneness implies a mind that does not depend on another psychologically, is not attached to any person, which does not mean that there is no love. Love is not attachment. Aloneness implies a mind that is really, deeply, inwardly, without any sense of fear, therefore any sense of conflict.	要探询什么才是宗教心灵？我们不仅要——就如我们昨天所解释的那样—— 摆脱掉我们的局限，摆脱掉我们的基督教、佛教、印度教以及所有它们的传道 ——五千年以来的传道，或者两千年以来的传道，由此心灵便能够真正自由地去观察了。这是非常困难的，因为我们都害怕独自一人，害怕独立，因为我们想要安全——既包括外在的安全，也包括内心的安全感，所以我们才会依赖于别人，依赖于牧师、新的领袖、依赖于那个说他知道的古鲁，或者那个说“我已经经历过它，所以我知道”的人。所以我们必须要彻底独立，但不是孤立，这两者之间有着巨大的差别——即孤立与彻底独立，那种完整。孤立是一种在其中关系停止的心灵状态，经由你的日常生活和活动，你实际上已经在自己周围建造了一道围墙 ——有意识或无意识地建造了它—— 为的是让自己不受伤害。而这种孤立显然阻止了一切形式的关系 ——我们昨天晚上多多少少已经探讨过了它。而独立则意味着心灵不再从心理上去依赖于别人，他不再执著于任何人，但这并不表示就没有了爱。因为爱并不是执著。独立意味着心灵真正地，深刻地，从内心深处而言没有了任何恐惧感，从而也就没有了冲突感。
28:04	Then we can proceed, if you go so far, to find out what discipline means. For most of us, discipline is a form of drill, a repetition, either overcoming an obstacle, resisting or suppressing, controlling, shaping, conforming, all that is implied in that word discipline. But the root meaning of that word is to learn, a mind that is willing to learn, not conform. A mind that is willing to learn must be curious, must have great interest. And a mind that already knows cannot possibly learn. If you want to learn a language, you come to it not knowing that language and therefore your mind is learning. And when you are learning what the meaning of that word discipline means, not drill, not repetitive, not mechanical, not conforming or suppressing, controlling, etc., you are learning about it, therefore, in that very learning there is order. Are we following each other in all this? Can I go on? If we don't communicate with each other, I'm sorry. There is a great deal to be gone into, therefore I must get on with it. So discipline, the root meaning of that word means to learn, to learn why one controls, why one suppresses, why there is fear, why does one conform, compare, and therefore conflict. And in that learning there is order, that very learning brings about order, not order according to any design, pattern, but in the very enquiry into the confusion, into the disorder, there is order. Most of us are confused for a dozen reasons, which we needn't go into for the moment. To learn about confusion, to learn about the disorderly life one leads, not try to bring order into confusion or order in disorder, but to learn about disorder, to learn about confusion. Then as you are learning, order comes into being.	如果你已经理解到了这个程度，那么我们就可以开始去发现“自律（discipline）”是什么意思了。对我们大多数人来说，自律是一种训练，一种重复，要么是去战胜某个障碍，去抵抗它，压抑它，要么就是去控制，去改造，去遵从，所有这些都隐含在“自律”这个词中。然而这个词的词根意思是“学习”，一颗愿意去学习而不是去遵从的心灵。一颗愿意去学习的心灵必须要有好奇心，必须要有极大的兴趣。而一颗“已经知道”的心灵是不可能去学习的。如果你想要学习一门语言，你肯定是不知道它才要学习它的，由此你的头脑才会去学习。当你在学习的时候， “自律”这个词又是什么意思呢？它不是训练，不是重复，不是机械化的行动，也不是遵从、压抑、控制等等这些，你是在学习它，因此，在那种学习之中就有着秩序。关于这一切，我们是否彼此理解了对方？我可以继续吗？要是我们没有在彼此交流着的话，我感到很抱歉。还有很多东西等待着我们去探讨，所以我必须要继续讲下去。因此，“自律”这个词的词根意思是“学习”，去学习了解为什么我们要控制，为什么我们要去压抑，为什么会有恐惧，为什么我们要去遵从，去比较，并因此而产生冲突。在这种学习中就会有秩序，这种学习本身就会带来秩序，这种秩序不是根据某种设计与模式而来的，而是在探询困惑，探询混乱的过程中，秩序就会产生。我们大多数人都是困惑的，造成困惑的原因有很多，我们暂时就不展开讲了。我们要去了解困惑，去了解我们所过的那种混乱失序的生活，而不是试图为这种困惑带来秩序，或者为混乱带来秩序，我们要去了解那种混乱，了解那种困惑。然后，当你在学习的时候，秩序就会出现了。
33:03	So order is a living thing, not a mechanical order, and order is surely virtue. It is the mind that is disorderly that is not virtuous. A mind that's confused, conforming, imitating, is not orderly, it is in conflict. And a mind that's in conflict is disorderly and therefore such a mind has no virtue, it's only the mind that's learning, learning about disorder, conforming, and so on. Out of this enquiry, learning, comes order, and therefore order is virtue. Not the morality of society, the social morality, as you observe, is totally immoral. It may be respectable, and what is respectable is generally disorderly. Please, observe it in yourself, see how one is, in one's life, so disordered, so confused, so mechanical. And in that state, one tries to find a moral, a way of living which will be orderly, sane, etc. How can a mind that is confused, conforming, imitative, have any kind of order, any kind of virtue? But order is necessary, because only out of order can there be a total action. May I go on? I won't ask anymore whether I can go on, I'll just go on. Action is life, but our action brings disorder. There is political action, religious action, business action, family action, fragmented actions. And naturally such action is contradictory, you are a businessman and at home you're a kindly human being, at least you pretend to be. There is contradiction and therefore there is disorder. And a mind that is in disorder cannot possibly understand what virtue is. And nowadays, when there is permissiveness of every kind, virtue, order, is denied. And a religious mind must have this order, not according to a pattern or a design laid down by you or by another, but that order, that sense of moral rectitude, comes only when you understand the disorder, the confusion, the mess that one lives in.	所以，秩序是一个活跃变化的事物，它并不是一种机械化的东西，而秩序无疑就是美德。那个混乱失序的心灵才是不道德的。一个困惑、遵从和模仿的心灵是没有秩序的，它处于冲突之中。而一个处于冲突中的心灵是混乱失序的，所以这样的心灵并没有美德，只有当头脑去学习，去了解混乱，了解遵从，等等这些事物时，从这种探询和学习之中才会产生秩序，因此秩序就是美德。这里的美德并不是指社会道德，你所看到的那种社会道德，它是彻底不道德的。它也许让人感觉正派体面，但正派体面的东西通常都是混乱失序的。请你们在自己身上观察一下它，看看你们在生活中是多么的混乱，多么的困惑，多么的机械化。而就在这种状态下，你们试图去寻找道德，寻找一种有序、健全等等的生活方式。然而一个困惑、遵从和模仿的头脑又怎么可能会有任何秩序，任何美德呢？但秩序是需要的，因为只有从秩序之中，才会产生出完全的行动。我可以继续吗？我就不再问“我是否可以继续了”，我会一直讲下去。因为行动就是生活，但我们的行动带来的却是混乱。我们有着政治上的行动，宗教上的行动，商业上的行动，家庭中的行动，各种支离破碎的行动。而这样的行动很自然地就会自相矛盾。你是一个商人，而在家里，你却是一个温和善良的人 ——至少你假装成温和善良的。这里就有着矛盾，因此就会产生混乱。而一个处于混乱中的心灵是不可能了解什么是美德的。而如今，当人们允许了各种各样的放任自由时，美德、秩序却被否定了。然而一个宗教心灵必须要拥有这种秩序，但不是根据某个模式或者设计而来的秩序 ——你或者其他人所制定的模式或设计，要那种秩序，那种道德操守出现，你就必须已经了解了你身处其中的失序、困惑和混乱。
38:30	Now, all this is to lay the foundation for meditation. If you don't lay the foundation, meditation then becomes an escape, and you can play with that kind of meditation endlessly. That's what most people are doing, lead an ordinary, confused, messy life, and somehow find a corner to bring about a quiet mind. And there are all the people who will give you a quiet mind, whatever that may mean.	所有这一切都会打下一个基础，它为冥想打下了基础。要是你没有打好这个基础，那么冥想就会变成一种逃避，你可以不停地玩那种“冥想游戏”。这就是大多数人在做的事情。人们过着一种平庸的、困惑的、混乱不堪的生活，然后设法去寻找一个角落，在那里获得“心灵的平静”。而也会有各种各样的人给予你这种“心灵的平静” ——不管它意味着什么。
39:44	So for a serious mind, and this is a very serious thing, not a play thing, one must have this freedom from all belief, from all commitment, because you are committed to the whole of life, not to one segment of life. Because most of us are committed to revolution, physical revolution, or to political this or that, or the religious activity, to some kind of religious, monastic life and so on, those are all fragmentary commitments. We are talking of freedom so that you can commit yourself, your whole being, your whole energy, vitality and passion to the whole of life, not to one part of it. Then we can proceed to find out what it means to meditate.	因此，对于一个认真的心灵来说，这是一件非常严肃的事情，而不是一个娱乐。我们必须要摆脱掉所有的信仰，所有的献身，因为你需要为生活的整体而献身，而不是对生活的某一部分献身。我们大多数人都会献身于革命，外在物质上的革命，或者献身于这个或那个党派，或者献身于宗教活动，去过某种宗教生活，修道院生活等等，然而这些全都是碎片化的献身。而我们在谈论的是（获得）那种自由，这样你就可以奉献你自己，将你全部的存在，你全部的能量、活力与热情，都奉献给生活这一整体，而不是生活的某一个部分。然后，我们就可以开始去发现 “冥想”意味着什么了。
41:33	I don't know if you have gone into this at all. Probably some of you have played with it, tried to control your thoughts, followed various systems, but that's not meditation at all. So one has to dispose of the various systems that one has been offered, the Zen, the transcendental, the things that have been brought over from India or Asia, in which various people are caught. So one has to go into this question of systems, methods. And I hope you will too, we are sharing this problem together.	我不知道你们究竟有没有了解过冥想？也许你们中有些人曾经玩过它，努力去控制你的思想，跟从不同的体系去冥想，但这根本就不是冥想。所以我们必须要去除掉人们所提供给我们的各种体系，禅宗、先验论，那些从印度或者亚洲传过来的东西，各种各样的人都陷入于其中。因此，我需要去探究关于体系和方法的问题。而我希望你们也能一起来探究它，我们是在一起分享着这个问题。
42:54	When you have a system to follow, what happens to the mind? What does a system, a method imply? A guru - I don't know why they call themselves gurus - I can't find a strong word to deny that whole world of gurus, of their authority, because they think they know. And a man who says, I know, such a man does not know. Or a man who says, I have experienced truth, distrust him completely. These are the people who offer systems. System implies practice, following, repetition, denying what actually is, and therefore increasing your conflict. The system promises nirvana or enlightenment. Just think of it, promising somebody enlightenment. And therefore you have the guru who says he knows more and the other guru says he knows still more. And the disciples fight amongst themselves, say, my guru is better than your guru. So you observe this, that systems make the mind mechanical, they don't give you freedom. They may promise freedom at the end, but freedom is at the beginning, not at the end. If you have no freedom at the beginning, to enquire into the truth of any system, then you are bound to end up with a system, and therefore a mind which is incapable of subtlety, swiftness, sensitivity. So one can totally dispose entirely of all systems so that your mind is really enquiring, is really learning, not according to any system, any philosophy, any guru, but being free to enquire, to see what actually takes place. The mind, which is the result of thousands of years of thought, that mind, that thought wanders. You want to fix your mind, your thought, on a particular phrase, a symbol, an idea, and so on, and your thought wanders off, and you say you must control it. So again you have a battle, you want to fix your mind on something and you're thinking about the drive that you're going to take. So there is conflict.	当你有了一个需要去跟从的体系时，你的头脑会发生什么？体系和方法意味着什么？意味着有一个古鲁 ——我不知道他们为什么要把自己称为“古鲁”—— 我恨不能找到一个语气最强烈的词去否定掉那整个古鲁的世界，以及他们的权威，因为他们认为自己知道。而一个说“我知道”的人，这个人其实并不知道。或者有人会说，我已经体验过了真理，绝对不要相信他。正是这些人提供了那些体系。体系就意味着练习、跟从、重复，否定实际的现状，由此助长了你的冲突。那个体系承诺会让你涅槃或者开悟。你只要想想就会明白了，承诺让某人开悟。因此你们会有一个古鲁，他说他比你们知道的更多，而另一个古鲁会说：他知道的还要多。然后弟子们彼此争吵不休，他会说，我的古鲁要比你的古鲁好。所以你们也观察到了这一点，那就是体系会让头脑变得机械化，体系无法带给你自由。它们也许承诺了你最后将会自由，然而自由存在于开始的时候，而不是在最后。如果一开始你就没能自由地去探询任何体系的真相，那么最终你得到的，就注定是一个不敏锐、不敏捷和不敏感的体系，以及由此而来的一个与之类似的头脑。所以我们要完全彻底地去除掉所有的体系，由此你的头脑就可以真正地去探询，真正地去学习了，不是依照任何体系、任何哲学、任何古鲁，而是可以自由地去探询，去观察实际发生的事情。头脑是数千年以来思想的产物，那个头脑，那种思想会开小差。而你想让你的头脑全神贯注，让思想集中，去专注于某个短语，某个符号，某个念头，等等，然而你的思想却开小差了，于是你说你必须要控制它。所以你又有了一场战斗，你想让你的头脑专注于某个事物，然而脑子里却在想着你将要去开车兜风。由此便有了冲突。
47:46	What is important is not controlling thought but understanding thought, therefore understanding the origin, the beginning of thought, which is in yourself. That is, the brain stores up memory, you can observe this yourself, you don't have to read all the books about it, your brain stores memory. And if it hasn't stored memory you wouldn't be able to think at all. That memory is the result of experience, knowledge, whether yours or of the community or the family, and so on, of the race. And from that storehouse of memory, thought springs. And thought is never free, it's always old. There is no such thing as freedom of thought. Thought can never be free in itself, it can express or talk about freedom, but in itself it is the result of past memories, experiences, knowledge, and therefore it's old. Right? I mustn't say right. One must have this accumulation of knowledge, otherwise you couldn't function, you couldn't do a thing, couldn't speak to each other, couldn't go home, and so on - knowledge is essential.	重要的不是去控制思想，而是了解思想，从而去了解那个源头，了解思想的起源 ——这个源头就在你自己身上。也就是说，大脑储存了记忆，你可以在自己身上观察到这一点，你并不需要去阅读所有那些相关的书籍，你的大脑储存了记忆。要是它没有储存记忆，你就完全无法去思考了。而那种记忆是经验与知识的产物 ——不管那种经验与知识是你自己的、群体的、家族的，还是种族的，等等。而思想就是从这个记忆的仓库里产生出来的。思想永远不会自由，它一直都是旧的。并不存在“思想的自由”这种东西。思想本身是永远不可能自由的，它可以去表述或者讨论自由，然而就它本身而言，它是过去记忆、经验和知识的产物，因此它是旧的。对吧？我绝不能说这是对的。我们必须要有这种积累起来的知识，否则的话你们是无法运作的，你们将无法去做事情，无法彼此交谈，无法回家，等等——知识是必不可少的。
50:32	So, in meditation one has to find out whether there is an end to knowledge and a freedom from the known. Because if meditation is the continuation of knowledge, that is, the continuation of everything that man has accumulated, then there is no freedom, is there? There is only freedom when there is an understanding of the function of knowledge and the freedom from the known.	因此，在冥想之中，我们必须要去发现知识是否可以终结，以及是否可以从已知事物中解脱出来。因为要是冥想成了知识的延续，也就是延续人类所积累起来的一切事物的话，那么就不会有自由了，那时还会有自由吗？让自由出现的唯一方法，就是我们要去了解知识的功能，并且从已知事物中解脱出来。
51:56	We are enquiring into the field of knowledge, where it has its function and where it becomes an impediment to further enquiry. If the brain cells continue to operate, and they can only operate in the field of knowledge, because that's the only thing the brain cells can do, it has known experience, in the field of time which is the past. And to find out if there is a field which is not already contaminated by the known. This is meditation. Are we meeting each other? You see my point?	我们是在探询知识的领域，哪些地方需要知识来负责，以及在哪些地方，知识会阻碍更深层次的探询。如果大脑细胞在持续不断地运作着，那他们只能在知识的领域中运作，因为这是大脑细胞唯一能做的事情，它已经知晓了那些时间领域中的经验 ——也就是过去。而去发现是否还存在着一个没有被已知之物所沾染的领域，这就是冥想。我们是否彼此理解了？你明白我的意思了吗？
53:25	If I meditate and continue with what I have already learned, with what I already know, then I am living in the past, living within the field of my conditioning, within the field of what I have already known. In that there is no freedom. I may decorate the prison in which I live, I may do all kinds of things in that prison, but it's still a limitation, a barrier. So the mind has to find out whether the brain cells which have developed through millennia in knowledge can be quiet, totally quiet, and respond to a field, a dimension it does not know. Which means, can the mind be totally still?	要是我去冥想，然后延续那些我已经学过的东西，继续那些我已经知道的东西，那么我就是活在过去之中，活在我的局限之中，活在我已知的事物中。在那之中是没有自由可言的。我也许可以去装饰一下我所生活的那个监狱，我也许可以在那监狱里做各种事情，但仍旧会有一种限制，一道阻碍。所以心灵必须要去发现，是否大脑细胞 ——大脑细胞已经在知识中发展了几千年了—— 可以安静下来？彻底安静下来，然后去响应那个它并不知晓的领域和维度。它的意思就是，头脑是否可以彻底寂静？
55:03	This has been the problem of all the religious people throughout the centuries, because they realise that you must have a very quiet mind, because then only you can see. If you are chattering, if your mind is constantly in movement, rushing all over the place, obviously it cannot look, it cannot listen totally, that's simple. To listen, to observe totally, the mind must be completely quiet. So they say, control. Control, hold it, train it, put it in a prison, because they haven't found a way of bringing about a mind that is completely and utterly quiet. They say control, don't yield to any desire, don't look at a woman, don't look at a man, don't look at the beautiful hills, trees, and the beauty of the earth, because if you do, it might remind you of the woman or the man. Therefore control, hold and concentrate. And when you do all that, concentrate, don't look at the loveliness of the earth, of the sky, of the cloud, you are in conflict, and therefore more control, more subjugation. This has been going on for a millennia, for thousands of years, because they all realise they must have a quiet mind. How does the mind become quiet, without effort, without control, without being drilled, without following, shaping, giving it a border, how to make the mind - no, not how, because the moment you ask how, you are introducing a system, therefore there is no how -	这就是无数世纪以来所有宗教人士们的问题，因为他们意识到你必须要有一个非常安静的头脑，只有这样，你才能够去看。如果你在喋喋不休，如果你的脑子在不停地活动着，东想西想的话，很显然，它就无法去看了，它无法完全地去聆听，这是很简单的道理。要去完全地聆听和观察，头脑就必须彻底安静下来，于是他们说：去控制。控制它，约束它，训练它，将它禁锢于某处，因为他们还没有找到一种方式，可以让头脑完全彻底地安静下来。他们说去控制，不要屈从于任何欲望，不要去看女人，也不要去看男人，是的，没错，不要去看那些美丽的山川和树木，去欣赏大地的美丽，因为如果你这么做了，它也许会让你联想到女人或者男人。所以要去控制，去约束，去保持专注。而当你去做这些事情的时候，去保持专注，不去看大地、天空和云彩的美好时，你就会处于冲突之中，由此便会引发更多的控制，更多的压抑。这种事情已经持续了上千年了，持续了数千年了，因为他们都意识到了，自己必须要有一个安静的头脑。那么头脑要如何才能安静下来？不是通过努力，不是通过控制，不是通过训练，也不是通过跟从，改造，给予它某种条条框框，而是如何让头脑 ——不对，不是“如何……”，因为当你问“如何”的时候，你就会引入一个体系，所以并不存在“如何”的问题，
58:45	can the mind become quiet? I don't know what you're going to do about it, when you see the problem, when you see the necessity, the truth of having a quiet, delicate, subtle mind, which is absolutely quiet. How are you going to do it, how is it to happen? Because only such a mind is a religious mind. It is only such a mind that sees the whole of life as a unit, as a unitary movement, not fragmented. Therefore such a mind when it acts, it acts totally, not fragmentarily, because it acts out of complete stillness.	而是，头脑是否可以安静下来？我不知道你们会怎么去处理这个问题，你们已经看到了这个问题，你们已经看到了它的必要性，看到了这个真理：那就是要有一个安静的、敏锐的、敏感的头脑，一个彻底安静的头脑。那么你们会怎么去做呢？它要如何才能产生呢？因为只有这样的心灵，才是宗教心灵。只有这样的心灵才会将生活的全部内容视为一个整体，一种统一的运动，而不是支离破碎的运动。因此，这样的头脑，当它行动的时候，它的行动是完整完全的，而不是支离破碎的，因为它是从彻底的寂静之中去行动的。
1:00:20	How is that to happen? That is the problem of meditation. You have laid the foundation of a life of complete relationship, which we went into yesterday, a life that is orderly and therefore virtuous, a life that is extraordinarily, inwardly simple and therefore totally austere. Not the austerity of the priest which is harsh, brutal, but the austerity of deep simplicity, which means a mind is not in conflict. And when you have laid that foundation, easily, without any effort, because the moment you introduce effort there's conflict, because you see the truth of it, and therefore it is the perception of what is that brings about a radical change.	那么它要如何才会产生呢？而这就是关于冥想的问题了。你已经打好了基础，为那种有着完整完全关系的生活打好了基础， ——这个我们昨天已经探讨过了，一种有秩序，从而有道德的生活，一种极其简单，内在简单的生活，因此它也是彻底简朴的。不是神职人员的那种严酷和残忍的苦行，而是那种极度简单而带来的朴素，那意味着心灵没有处于冲突之中。当你打好了这个基础以后 ——轻松地，没有任何努力地打好这个基础，因为一旦当你去努力，冲突就会产生了，因为你看到了它的真相，因此，正是这种对于事实的洞察带来了根本性的改变。
1:01:52	So when you perceive, when the mind sees clearly that it's only a quiet mind, which means the brain cells which carry the memories of centuries, they must also become quiet and only respond when necessary, and not otherwise. Only respond when challenged completely, but otherwise remain completely quiet.	所以当你认识到，当心灵清楚地看到，那就是只有一颗安静的心灵 ——安静的心灵意味着大脑细胞，那些携带着无数世纪记忆的大脑细胞，它们也必须要安静下来，只有在必要时去作出反应，其他时候则保持安静。只有当它遭遇完全的挑战时才去作出反应，而其他时候则保持彻底的安静。
1:02:37	That's the problem. It's only a quiet mind, a totally still mind that understands. In that still mind there is a movement which is totally different, of a different dimension, of a different quality. That can never be put into words, because that is indescribable. But what can be described is up to this point, to the point when you have laid the foundation and see the necessity, the truth and the beauty of a still mind.	这就是问题所在。只有一颗安静的心灵，一颗彻底寂静的心灵才能去了解。在那个寂静的心灵中，会有一种截然不同的运动，这种运动属于一个完全不同的维度，具有完全不同的品质。这是永远无法述诸于文字的，因为它是无法描述的。而到目前为止，可以描述的就是你已经打好了那个基础，并且看到了寂静心灵的必要性，它的真相，它的美。
1:03:36	For most of us, beauty is in something, in the building, in the cloud, in the shape of a tree, in a beautiful face. Is beauty out there, or is it a quality of mind that has no self-centred activity? Because like joy, beauty is essential in meditation, the understanding of beauty. And beauty is really the total abandonment of the me. And the eyes that have abandoned the me can see the tree and the beauty of it, and the loveliness of a cloud. That is, when there is no centre as the me. It happens to each one of us, doesn't it? When you see a lovely mountain, when you come upon it suddenly, there it is. Everything has been pushed aside except the majesty of that hill. That hill, that mountain, that tree, absorbs you completely.	对我们大多数人来说，美存在于某个事物中，存在于建筑中，存在于云彩中，存在于树木的形态中和美丽的脸庞中。难道美就在那里吗？还是说它是一种心灵的品质？一颗没有自我中心活动的心灵所具有的品质？因为就像喜悦一样，美也是冥想中不可或缺的事物，那种对美的理解。美实际上就是彻底放弃那个“我”。而舍弃了“我”的双眼就可以看到那棵树以及它的美丽，看到云彩之美了。也就是说，那时没有了“我”这个中心。它在我们每一个人身上都会发生，不是吗？当你看到那可爱秀丽的高山时，你会突然邂逅这种感觉，那就是它了。一切事物都被推到了一边，只剩下了那座山的威严雄伟。那座山，那山脉，那些树木，完全彻底地吸引了你的注意力。
1:05:55	It's like a child with a toy, the toy absorbs the child. And when the toy is destroyed the child is back again in whatever he's doing, in his mischief, in his crying, etc. Likewise with us, when you see the mountain or the single tree on a hilltop, it absorbs you. And we want to be absorbed by something, by an idea, by an activity, by a commitment, by a belief, or be absorbed by another, which is like the child with a toy.	这就像是小孩子玩玩具一样，那个玩具吸引了小孩所有的注意力。而当那个玩具破掉了以后，小孩又会恢复原样，顽皮淘气，大哭大闹，等等。我们也一样，当你看到那山脉，或者山顶的那一棵孤树时，它吸引了你的注意力。而我们想要被某个东西所吸引，被理念所吸引，被某种活动所吸引，被某种献身所吸引，被某个信仰所吸引，或者被某人所吸引，也就是说，它就像小孩子玩玩具一样。
1:07:14	Beauty, which means sensitivity, the body that is sensitive, which means right diet, right way of living, I won't go into all that, there's no time. When you have all this, and if you've gone that far, and I hope you will, or you are doing it now, then the mind will inevitably and naturally, unknowingly, become quiet. You can't make the mind quiet, because you are the mischief-maker, you are yourself disturbed, anxious, confused, how can you make the mind quiet? But when you understand what quietness is, when you understand what confusion is, what sorrow is, whether sorrow can ever end, when you understand pleasure, then out of that comes an extraordinarily quiet mind, you don't have to seek it. You must begin at the beginning and the first step is the last step, and this is meditation.	美，它意味着敏感，一个敏感的身体，它意味着正确的饮食，正确的生活方式，我就不深入下去了，已经没时间了。当你拥有了这一切，如果你已经达到了这个程度，我希望你们可以这样去做，或者你们正在这样做，那么头脑就肯定会自然而然地，不知不觉地变得安静了。你是无法让头脑安静下来的，因为你就是那个捣乱者，你自己就是混乱、焦虑和困惑的，你又怎么可能让头脑安静下来呢？但是当你了解了什么是安静，当你了解了什么是混乱，什么是痛苦，以及痛苦是否能够结束，当你了解了快感，那么从这之中就会产生出一个无比平静的头脑，你并不需要去寻找它。你必须从起点就开始，而第一步就是最后一步，这就是冥想。
1:09:26	Would you like to ask any questions? Yes?	你们想要问问题吗？请说？
1:09:45	Questioner: When you make the analogy of the mountain, the hills, the beautiful sky, that's wrong for these people, that's not the analogy for them. The analogy is the dirt.	提问者：你拿山脉、高山、美丽的天空做了类比，但这种类比对人们来说是错误的，这种类比并不适用于他们。你应该拿尘埃污垢来做类比。
1:09:59	K: Right, take that, the analogy of the dirty street of New York, the analogy of the dirt, the squalor, the poverty, the ghettos, the war, which we have made, to which each one of us has contributed, we are responsible, each one of us, for the war in Vietnam, for the war in the Middle East, in Pakistan, each one of us is responsible. You don't feel that way because you have separated yourself, isolated yourself, therefore having no relationship with another you become corrupt and therefore allow corruption to spread in the world. That's why this corruption, this pollution, this war, this hatred, cannot be stopped by a system, political, religious, or any organisation. You have to change. Don't you see this? You have to cease to be, completely, what you are. Not through will. Meditation is the emptying of the mind of will, then totally different action takes place. Yes?	克：没错，那就拿纽约街头的肮脏来做类比吧，拿尘埃污垢来做类比，那些肮脏，那些贫穷，那些贫民窟，以及战争，这些都是我们制造出来的，我们每个人都为此贡献了一份力量，我们每一个人都对越南战争负有责任，对中东战争，对巴基斯坦的战争负有责任，我们每个人都要为此负责。但你们并没有这样的感觉，因为你们已经分离了自己，孤立了自己，由此便失去了与他人的关系，你变得腐败，从而允许了腐败在这个世界上蔓延扩散。所以这些腐败、污染、战争与仇恨，是无法通过某个体系、政治、宗教或者组织而被终止的。你们自己必须要有所改变才行。你们难道没有看到这一点吗？你们绝不能再继续现有的模样了。但不是通过意志力。冥想就是清空那个充满意志的头脑，然后就会产生完全不同的行动了。请说？
1:12:19	Q: If one can have the privilege of becoming aware, totally aware, shall I say, how can we then help those that are conditioned, that have deep resentment within them, to become receptive and aware.	提问者：如果我们拥有了那种觉察的“特权”，我说的是完全的觉察，那么我们要如何才能去帮助那些局限的，内心有着深深怨恨的人们去变得善于接纳和有所觉察。
1:12:38	K: If one is privileged to be totally aware, how can one help another to uncondition and so on. Why, if I may ask, do you use the word privilege? What is there sacred or privileged about being aware? That's a natural thing, isn't it, to be aware? And if you are aware of your own conditioning, of the turmoil, the dirt, the squalor, the war, the hatred, you know what is happening in the world, the tears, the sorrow of those poor people being killed, the children, the mothers, all that. If you are aware of all that you will establish a relationship with another so complete, so that when you are so completely related to another you are related to every other human being in the world. You understand this? If I am related to my wife, to my husband, to somebody completely, totally, not as an idea or an image, completely, then I am related to every human being in the world, then I will see I will not hurt another. They are hurting themselves. Then I can go, preach, talk about it, not with the desire to help another, that's the most terrible thing to say, I want to help another. Who are you to help another, including the speaker?	克：如果我们享有完全觉察的“特权”，我们要如何才能帮助别人摆脱局限等等。如果允许我问一下的话，为什么你要使用“特权”这个词呢？觉察难道是什么神圣之事或者需要什么特权吗？觉察是一件很自然的事，不是吗？如果你觉察到了自己的局限，觉察到了混乱、污垢、肮脏、战争、仇恨，你们都知道这个世界正在发生的事情，那些泪水，那些被屠杀的，可怜的人的痛苦，那些孩子，那些母亲，所有这些。如果你觉察到了所有这些，你就会与另一个人建立起一种如此完整的关系，因此，当你如此完全地与另一个人产生联系时，那么你就与世界上其他每一个人产生了联系。你们明白它了吗？要是我与我的妻子、我的丈夫，或者某个人产生了完整、完全的联系，不是与某个概念或者形象产生联系，而是完整完全的联系，那么我就与世界上每一个人产生了联系，然后我就会发现，我并不会伤害到别人。那都是他们自己在伤害自己。然后我就可以去行动了，去传道，去谈论它，但我并不渴望去帮助别人，最可怕的事情就是你说：我想要帮助别人。你又算老几？可以去帮助别人——当然也包括演讲者本人。
1:15:03	The beauty of the tree or the flower doesn't want to help you, it is there, it is for you to look at the squalor or at the beauty. And if you are incapable of looking at it then find out why you are incapable, why you have become so indifferent, so callous, so shallow and empty. If you find that out then you are in a state where the waters of life flow, you don't have to do a thing.	树木或花朵的美丽并不想要帮助你，它就在那里，让你去欣赏那种肮脏或是美丽。如果你无法去看它，那就去搞清楚为什么你不能去看，为什么你会变得如此冷漠，如此麻木，如此肤浅和空洞。要是你搞清楚了它，那么你就会处于那种生命之水流动的状态中，你并不需要去做什么事情。
1:16:11	Q: What is the relationship between seeing things exactly as they are, and consciousness?	提问者：我想问下这两者的关系是什么 ——即如实看到事物和意识之间的关系？
1:16:17	K: What is the relationship between seeing things as they are, and consciousness. Consciousness is the content of it. The content of consciousness is consciousness. Has everything got to be explained? That's a simple thing. The content of your consciousness is your greed, envy, ambition, comparison, struggle, pain, sorrow, all that is consciousness, because the content of it makes consciousness. Remove the content, is there consciousness as you know it? Of course not, you only know consciousness by its content. And its content is what is happening in the world, of which you are a part. Now, to empty all that is not to have this consciousness but a totally different dimension. And that dimension you cannot speculate about, leave it to the scientists, to the philosophers. What we can do is to find out whether it is possible to uncondition the mind by becoming aware, by becoming totally attentive.	克：如实地看到事物和意识的关系是什么？意识就是意识的内容。意识的内容就是意识。难道每件事情都需要解释一遍吗？这是一个很简单的道理。你们意识的内容就是你们的贪婪、嫉妒、野心、比较、斗争、痛苦、悲伤，所有这些就是意识，因为是意识的内容构成了意识。移除掉这些内容，你们所知的意识还会存在吗？当然不存在了，你只有通过意识的内容才能知晓意识。而意识的内容就是整个世界正在发生的事情，而你们就是其中的一部分。而现在，要清空所有这些内容，就是要抛弃这种意识，然后去拥有一个截然不同的维度。而这个维度是你无法去思考猜测的，把这个问题留给那些科学家和哲学家吧。我们所能做的是去发现是否可能让头脑摆脱局限 ——通过觉察，通过完全的留心注意来消除掉局限。
1:18:33	Q: I don't know myself what love is or truth is or God is, but when you describe it: love is God, instead of love is love. Can you explain why you say love is God?	提问者：我自己并不知道什么是爱？什么是真理或者上帝？不过你描述说“爱就是上帝”，而没有说“爱就是爱”。你能否解释一下，为什么你说“爱就是上帝”？
1:18:43	K: I didn't say love is God.	克：我并没有说“爱就是上帝”。
1:18:45	Q: Well, in your book, I read one of your books.	提问者：哦，你的著作中说过的，我曾经读过你的一本书。
1:18:47	K: Oh, I'm so sorry, don't read books. That word has been used so much, loaded by man's despairs and hopes. You having God, the communists have their gods, loaded. So find out, if I may suggest, what love is. You can only find out what love is by knowing what it is not. Not knowing intellectually but actually in life putting aside what it is not: jealousy, ambition, greed, all the division that goes on in life, the me and the you, we and they, the black and the white. You won't do it, unfortunately, you won't do it because it needs energy. And energy comes only when you observe actually what is, not run away from it. When you see actually what is, then in the observing of it you have the energy to go beyond it. You cannot go beyond it if you are trying to escape from it, if you are trying to translate it, if you are trying to overcome it, just to observe actually what is, then you have an abundance of energy, then you can find out what love is. Love is not pleasure. And to find that out, to really inwardly find out for yourself that love is not pleasure. You know what that means? It means that there is no fear, that there is no attachment, no dependency, but a relationship in which there is no division.	克：噢，我很抱歉，不要去读那些书了。 “爱”这个字眼是如此地被滥用，它承载着人类的那些绝望和希望。你们有着自己的上帝，而共产主义者们也有着他们的上帝，它已经不堪重负了。所以，如果我可以建议一下的话，你要去发现什么是爱？而要发现什么是爱？你就必须知道什么不是爱？不是思想上知道，而是在生活中实际地知晓它，把那些不是爱的东西扔到一边去：嫉妒、野心、贪婪，所有那些生活中持续着的分裂 ——我和你，我们和他们，黑人和白人。但你不会那样去做，很遗憾，你之所以不那样去做，是因为做这件事需要能量。而只有当你去观察实际的现状，而不是逃离它时，能量才会产生。当你看到了真实的现状，那么就在对它的观察之中，你就会拥有能量从而去超越它了。但如果你试图去逃避它，如果你试图去诠释它，如果你试图去战胜它的话，那么你就无法超越它了，只需要去观察那个事实，然后你就会拥有充沛的能量，那时你就可以去发现什么是爱了。爱并不是快感。要去发现这一点，自己去发现它，从内在真正地去发现它：即爱并不是快感。你知道这意味着什么吗？它意味着没有了恐惧，没有了执著，没有了依赖，而只有一种在其中没有分隔的关系。
1:22:05	Q: I would like, if you would, to talk about the role of the artist in society. Does he serve a function beyond his own function?	提问者：如果你愿意的话，我想请你谈一下艺术家在社会中的角色。他是否发挥了超越他自身职责的作用？
1:22:33	K: The role of the artist in society. Who is an artist? Who paints a picture? Writes a poem? Who wants to express himself through painting or through writing a book, a play? Why do we divide the artist from the rest of us, the intellectual from the rest of us? Why this division? Because we have placed the intellectual at one level, the artist perhaps at a higher level, and the scientist at a still higher level. And then we say, what is their role in society? The question is not what is their role but what is your role in society, because you have created this awful mess. What is your role? Find out. That is, find out why you live within this world of squalor, hatred and misery. Apparently it doesn't touch you.	克：艺术家在社会中的角色。谁是艺术家呢？那个画画的人？那个写诗的人？那个想要通过绘画、写作或者戏剧来表达他自己的人？为什么我们要把艺术家和其他的人分隔开来呢？为什么要把知识分子和其余的人分隔开来呢？为什么要有这种分裂？因为我们已经将知识分子置于某个层次，而艺术家或许在一个更高的层次，而科学家还要再高一个层次。然后我们问：他们在社会中是怎样的角色？问题并不在于他们的角色是什么，而是你在社会中的角色是什么？因为你已经制造出了这种可怕的混乱。那么你的角色是什么呢？去搞清楚它。那就是，去发现为什么你会生活在这个肮脏、仇恨和痛苦的世界中？很显然，它并没有触动你。
1:24:33	You have listened to these four talks, shared some of the things together, understood, let's hope, a great deal. Then you become a centre of right relationship and therefore it's your responsibility to change this terrible, corrupt, destructive society.	你们已经听了这四次演讲，一起分享了一些东西，希望你们也明白了很多东西。那样的话，你就会变成一个正确关系的中心，因此，你的责任就是去改变这个可怕、腐败和破坏性的社会。
1:25:09	Isn't it time now to stop? What time is it? Quarter past seven.	是不是到了该结束的时间了？现在几点了？七点十五分。
1:25:25	Any more questions?	还有问题吗？
1:25:28	Q: Could you go into psychological time?	提问者：你能否谈论一下心理上的时间？
1:25:35	K: I will. I've got it. This is the last question, I'm afraid. I'll have to stop. The questioner wants to know what time is, could you go into it. Time is old age, time is sorrow, time doesn't heed. So what is time? There is chronological time by the watch. That must exist, otherwise you won't be able to catch your bus, cook a meal, all the rest, time. But there is another kind of time which we have accepted. That is we say, tomorrow I will be, tomorrow I will change, tomorrow I will become. Psychologically, we have created time, haven't we? You know, tomorrow. Is there a tomorrow, psychologically? To put that question seriously is a most dreadful question, because we want tomorrow, I am going to see you tomorrow, I am going to have the pleasure of meeting you tomorrow, I am going to understand tomorrow, my life will be different tomorrow, I will realise enlightenment tomorrow. Therefore tomorrow becomes the most important thing in our life. You have had sex yesterday, all the pleasures, all the agony, whatever you have in that mess, and you want it tomorrow, because you want that same pleasure repeated tomorrow.	克：可以。我明白你的问题了。我恐怕这是最后一个问题了。我只能讲到这里了。提问者想要知道时间是什么？你能否来探讨一下它？时间就是衰老，时间就是痛苦，时间从不留情。所以，时间是什么呢？我们有着钟表日历上的时间。我们必须要有这种时间，否则的话，你就无法按时赶上公共汽车，无法做饭菜，等等，这是一种时间。而我们还接受了另外一种时间。也就是，我们说：明天我将会成为某某人，明天我将会改变，明天我将会变成什么什么。我们也在心理上创造出了时间，不是吗？你们知道的，那种“明天”。那么，是否存在心理上的“明天”呢？如果你很认真地提出这个问题的话，它将会是一个令人无比害怕的问题，因为我们渴望明天，我明天将会来见你，我明天将会体验到与你见面的快乐，我明天将会了解它，明天，我的生活将会变得不同，明天我将会开悟。因此，“明天”变成了我们生命中最重要的东西。你昨天做爱了，你经历了所有那些愉快，所有那些苦恼，不管是什么乱七八糟的东西，而你想要在明天再次享受它，因为你想要在明天重复那种同样的快乐。
1:28:19	So to put that question to yourself and find out the truth of it, which is, is there a tomorrow at all? Except - please follow - thought projects tomorrow. So, tomorrow is the invention of thought as time. And if there is no tomorrow psychologically, what happens to the life, to today? What happens today if there is no tomorrow, psychologically? Then there is a tremendous revolution, isn't there? Then your whole action undergoes a radical change, doesn't it? Then you are completely whole now. Then you are not projecting from the past, through the present, the future. That means to live, dying every day. Do it and you will find out what it means to live so completely today. Isn't that what love is? You don't say, I will love tomorrow, do you? You love or you don't love. So love has no time, only sorrow has time. Sorrow is thought as pleasure. So to find out for oneself what time is, and find out if there is no tomorrow. Then there is a life which is eternal, because eternity has no time.	所以你要问问自己这个问题，然后去找出它的真相，也就是，究竟是否存在“明天”这种东西？除了——请跟上我的思路——那种思想所投射出来的“明天”。所以，“明天”是思想所发明出来的，作为时间的东西。而如果没有了心理上的“明天”，那么生活会变得怎样，今天会变得怎样？今天会发生什么呢——如果没有了心理上的明天？那时就会产生一场巨大的革命，不是吗？那时你的全部行动都会经历一次彻底的改变，不是吗？然后你就可以在当下保持彻底的完整。那时你就不会再投射那个过去，让它经由现在，而变成未来了。那意味着你在生活，你每一天都在死去。请这样去做，然后你就会明白完整地活在今天是什么意思了。这难道不就是爱吗？你不会说：我明天再去爱，你会这样说吗？你要么爱，要么不爱。因此，爱是没有时间的，只有痛苦才会有时间。和快感一样，痛苦也是一种思想。所以，你要亲自去发现什么是时间？去发现“明天”是否存在？那时就会有一种永恒不朽的生活，因为永恒不朽是没有时间的。