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OJ72T2 - 法则有它自己的定律
公开讲座2
欧海，加利福尼亚，美国
1972年4月9日



1:52 Krishnamurti: Shall we continue with what we were talking about yesterday? 克里希那穆提：我们可以继续 我们昨天所谈的吗？
2:01 We were saying that mere physical revolution has very little significance, and what has meaning, a depth, is the psychological revolution: a total change in one’s attitude, values and behaviour. 我们说了 只是身体上的革命并没有多大意义， 而富有意义、富有深度的是 心理上的革命： 一种彻底的改变，我们的态度、 价值观和行为举止的改变。
2:39 Either we change superficially, adjusting to superficial demands, or we go much more deeply into the whole structure and nature of consciousness where the revolution must take place. 我们要么只是进行表面的改变 以适应肤浅的需求， 要么就更加深入地 去探究意识的整个结构和本质 ——意识之中必须发生这种革命。
3:09 That’s what we were more or less talking about yesterday. 这些昨天我们或多或少都已谈过。
3:18 I think we ought to go into it much deeper this morning, bearing in mind, depth, the word ‘depth’ has no measurement. 今天早上我觉得我们应该进一步深入探究这个问题， 请记住， “深度”一词是无法度量的。
3:31 It is really immeasurable. And the more one goes into it, the deeper, the wider, the more unfathomable it is. 它确实不可度量。 我们越深入它， 它就变得更深刻、更广阔、 更深不可测。
3:46 But we must begin with order. 而我们必须从秩序开始。
4:01 Order, it seems to me, is not a mental directive, or a disciplined conformity, or the effect of constant battle within oneself or outwardly. 秩序——在我看来—— 不是精神上的指令， 不是遵守纪律的顺从， 不是我们内心或外在不断斗争的结果。
4:30 Order has its own law. 秩序有其自身的法则。
4:39 And if we are at all serious – and one should be in a mad world, in a world that’s crumbling about us, in a world that has become almost insane – sanity is essential, sanity is order. 而如果我们真的很认真的话， 我们就应该在这个疯狂的世界上， 在这个正在我们四周坍塌的世界上， 在这个几乎已经变得疯狂的世界上 ——我们必须保持心智健全，心智健全就是秩序。
5:06 And this order comes about naturally, without any effort, if we understand what is disorder. 而这秩序是自然到来的， 其中没有任何努力 ——如果我们了解了混乱是什么。
5:24 And as we said yesterday, we are together considering the matter. 如我们昨天所说， 我们是在一起深思这个问题，
5:37 You're not merely listening to a speaker, accepting or rejecting his words, but rather, we are together taking a journey in the investigation, into the investigation of the whole process of disorder. 你不只是在听讲话者说 ——接受或拒绝他的话—— 而是，我们是在一起 进行一次探索之旅， 去探究混乱的整个过程。
6:08 That is, we are trying to communicate with each other what is disorder, trying to understand, together, what brings disorder in our life. 也就是，我们正在试图彼此交流什么是混乱， 试图一起来了解，是什么带来了我们生活中的混乱。
6:23 And in the understanding of that, naturally, order will come. 而在这份对混乱的了解之中，很自然地，秩序就会到来。
6:30 Order then is not a blueprint, a design which forces the mind to conform, but rather the understanding of what is the nature and structure of disorder. 然而秩序并不是一张蓝图， 一种强迫心灵去遵从的设计， 而是了解 混乱的的本质与结构。
6:55 All right? 对吗？
7:02 It’s a lovely morning, isn’t it? 这是个美好的早晨，不是吗？
7:13 Our lives, the life that we lead daily, – not the ideological life, not the life of what one should be, but the life of ‘what is’, actually, every day – in that everyday life, we lead a disorderly life, a life that's contradictory, that is self-centred, that has innumerable values: imaginative, contrived, remembered. 我们的生活， 我们每天所过的生活 ——不是理论上的生活， 不是“我们应该怎样”的生活， 而是我们“真实”的生活，我们每天实际的生活—— 在我们每天的生活中，我们混乱不堪， 充满矛盾， 那是自我中心的生活， 它有着无数的价值标准， 那些幻想的、人为的、记住的价值标准。
8:06 Please, as we said yesterday, and if I may repeat again, use, if I may suggest, the words of the speaker to observe yourself, to look at your own daily life, actually what it is – not theoretically, not in abstraction, but actually as it is taking place in one’s life. 恳请你们，就如我们昨天说过的， 如果我可以再说一遍的话， 去把——如果我可以建议的话——讲话者的话用来观察你自己， 看看你自己的日常生活， 观察它实际的样子， 不是理论上的，也不是抽象概念上的， 而是我们生活中实际发生的事情。
8:45 If you observe, and are aware of your life at all, one sees that there is a great deal of conflict, struggle, contradiction, comparative competitiveness, both psychologically and outwardly, and these are the contributing factors of disorder. 如果我们真的去观察、觉知我们的生活， 我们就会看到其中存在着大量的冲突、 挣扎、矛盾、互相比较的竞争 ——既包括心理上的，也包括外在的， 这些都是助长混乱的因素。
9:18 That is, human beings are conditioned according to the culture they live in, according to the country, the environment, the economic situation, and so on. 也就是，人类深受局限 ——因他们身处的文化， 因国家、环境、 经济状况等等而深受局限。
9:39 This conditioning may vary from China, India, Europe and America. 这种局限可能会有所不同 ——中国、印度、欧洲和美国各不相同。
9:51 In this conditioning we live, and in that life, there is this constant struggle, constant adjustment to certain values projected by society or by oneself, or values that we have inherited, and so on. 我们生活在这种局限中， 在这种生活中，存在着不断的斗争， 不断地调整以适应某种价值观 ——要么是社会或我们自己投射出来的， 要么是我们继承下来的价值观等等。
10:33 The factor of disorder is essentially the contradiction in oneself: saying one thing, doing another, thinking something totally different. 导致混乱的因素本质上就是我们内心的矛盾： 言行不一、 口是心非。
11:00 And this contradiction must inevitably create disorder. 而这种矛盾必然会制造混乱。
11:08 That is a simple fact, psychological fact, as when there are two nations opposed in ideologies and religious outlook, they must inevitably be in contradiction with each other and prepare for war, as it has been going on through centuries. 这是个很简单的事实，心理上的事实， 因为当有两个国家 在意识形态和宗教观点上相互对立时， 他们必然会彼此抵触 和备战， 这种事已经持续了无数个世纪了。
11:33 That again is a fact. 这也是个事实。
11:41 Now, either we change superficially, bring a certain kind of order outwardly, through legislation, through law, through politics, economic adjustment, and so on, or we understand the nature of disorder in ourselves, and see, as we explained what is meant by seeing yesterday. 现在，要么我们从表面上改变， 带来某种外在的秩序 ——经由立法、 法律、政治、 经济调控等等带来秩序， 要么我们了解了我们内心混乱的本质， 并且去看清——我们昨天解释过了看清是什么意思。
12:20 In that very perception, is the ordering of our life without any effort. 这份洞察就会让我们的生活变得有秩序 ——而且毫不费力。
12:31 I think this needs a little explanation. 我想这需要解释一下。
12:38 You see, as we were saying yesterday, perception is of the highest importance. 你瞧，正如我们昨天说过的， 洞察极为重要。
12:47 Either you perceive through an image, and therefore you don’t perceive at all, or you perceive directly. 要么你通过某个意象去观察， 因此你根本没在观察， 要么你是直接在观察。
12:56 And the perception which is direct has immediate action because goodness doesn’t flower in the field of time. 而这种直接的观察就会产生立即的行动， 因为良善是不会在时间的土地上绽放的。
13:11 You understand that? 你明白了吗？
13:20 I said just now, goodness doesn’t flower in the field of time. 我刚才说了， 良善不会在时间的土地上绽放。
13:30 Time being not only postponement, but conformity to an idea, to an ideology, to 'what should be', the gradual idea of getting better – all that is in the field of time. 时间不仅仅是拖延， 也是在遵从某个观念、 某种意识形态， 遵从“应该怎样”， 那种变得更好的渐进思维—— 这些都在时间的领域里。
13:56 In that field, there is more conflict, there is no goodness. 在那个领域里，存在着更多的冲突， 而没有良善。
14:04 And goodness can only flower in the field in which time doesn’t exist at all. 良善的绽放 只有在根本不存在时间的领域里才有可能。
14:15 Have we communicated with each other? Questioner: Yes. 我们彼此有交流吗？ 提问者：有。
14:20 K: No. Have we? Wait a minute, sir, you can ask questions at the end of the talk. 克：没有吧，我们有吗？ 稍等一下，先生， 你可以在讲话结束后问问题。
14:33 Because when the house is burning, you have no time to put it out. You don’t say whether he’s a long-bearded gentleman who began the fire, what colour, and so on. 因为，当房子着火时， 你是没有时间去灭火的。 你不会去猜是否是一位长胡子的先生 放的火， 他是什么肤色等等。
14:48 You act instantly. There is no time involved. And our house is on fire. You may live in this beautiful valley, or live in a country where there is plenty, but yet, your house is burning, and we must act immediately. 你会立刻行动， 没有时间的介入。 我们的房子着火了。 你可能住在这美丽的山谷里， 或是住在一个富裕的国家， 然而，你的房子却着火了， 因此我们必须立即行动。
15:19 And action can only take place when you see actually the nature of disorder in one’s own life, which is causing such havoc in the world. 只有当你真正地看到 自身生活中的混乱的本质时，你才会行动。 我们生活中的混乱就是造成世界混乱的原因。
15:37 Because what you are, you project that in the world. 因为你是什么样的，你就会把它投射到这个世界。
15:48 And seeing the truth of that, is to act immediately, and the immediacy of action is goodness. 而看到这个真相，就是立即的行动， 而这种紧迫的行动就是良善。
16:03 Please, don’t agree or disagree. 恳请你们，不要同意或者反对。
16:10 Don’t remember this phrase about goodness, but actually see the truth of it, see the reality of it, the beauty of it, not tomorrow, but as you’re sitting there listening – if you are at all listening – see actually one’s own life in such mess, confusion, contradiction, great deal of sorrow, pain, not only physical, but psychological pains and frustrations – that whole life of ours which we call living. 不要记下这些关于良善的话， 而是切实看到它的真相， 看到它的真实性、它的美， 不是在明天，而是在你坐在这里聆听的时候 ——如果你真的在听的话—— 真正看到自己的生活陷于这样的困境、 困惑、矛盾、 巨大的悲伤、 痛苦——不只是身体上的， 也包括心理上的各种痛苦和挫折—— 我们这整个生活，也就是我们所谓的活着。
17:13 As we said, either we bring superficial order, and therefore adjust to certain ideologies, symbols, and so on, or you go into the whole structure and nature of consciousness, of yourself, as you are. 正如我们说过的，我们要么带来一种表面上的秩序， 由此去适应某种意识形态、 符号等等， 要么你就去探究意识的整个结构和本质， 探究你自己的真实模样。
17:44 And that’s what we're going to do this morning, a little bit. This is not group therapy. 这就是今天早上我们要做的事——稍微来探究一下。 这不是集体治疗，
17:55 This is not a confessional. This is not an analytical process. Analysis to me is postponement, it has no reality. 这不是一种忏悔， 这也不是一个心理分析过程。 分析在我看来就是拖延，它没有真实性。
18:11 I can go on analysing my life for the next thirty years till I die, and I’m still analysing at the end of it. 我可以继续分析我的生活——分析三十年，直到死去， 并且到死的时候，我还在分析。
18:21 Analysis implies time. Analysis implies the analyser and the analysed, and therefore, there is division in that, and therefore conflict. 分析意味着时间。 分析意味着分析者和被分析物， 因此，这其中就存在分裂，因而也就存在冲突。
18:37 So we are not analysing, nor is it group therapy, nor are we doing a propaganda. 所以，我们不是在分析， 也不是进行集体治疗， 我们也不是在传道。
18:53 Propaganda is always furthering a lie. Right? 传道往往就是在助长谎言，对吗？
19:01 You all accept all this, don’t you? Quite easily. Why is that? Either you don’t understand what we’re talking about, or you understand it, and therefore it is natural. 你们接受了这些话，不是吗？很轻易地接受了。 为什么会这样？ 你们要么没明白我们所说的， 要么就是明白了，因此接受也就是很自然的事了。
19:20 What we are going to do together, this lovely morning, is to observe ourselves clearly as we are using the words of the speaker as a mirror. 在这个美妙的早晨，我们要一起做的， 就是去清楚地观察我们自己，我们在 把讲话者的话当作一面镜子来观察我们自己。
19:43 Either the mirror distorts, or the mirror shows exactly 'what is'. 要么镜子会扭曲失真， 要么镜子会准确地呈现出“真实现状”。
19:55 There is distortion only when you say, ‘I don’t like or I like, this is my opinion or judgement, this is right and this is wrong, this should be or should not be’. 扭曲之所以存在，是因为你说， “我不喜欢或者我喜欢， 这是我的看法或判断， 这是对的，那是错的， 应该这样或不应该这样。”
20:09 Then distortion takes place. ——这时扭曲就会产生。
20:17 If you belong to any particular society, or to a particular group, or conditioned according to Catholicism, Protestantism, – you know, all the rest of the divisions of various religious sects in the world – and being so conditioned, look at the mirror, then you are distorting, distorting the fact of ‘what is’. 如果你隶属于任何特定的社会， 或是某个特定的团体， 又或者受限于天主教、新教的话， ——你知道世界上各种 宗教教派的所有这些分裂—— 当你如此深受制约地去看那面镜子时， 那么你就会扭曲， 扭曲那个“真实现状”。
20:48 Whereas if you look without opinions, judgements, evaluations, or being aware of your conditioning, putting that aside and observing, then there is no distortion, then you and I are observing exactly ‘what is’. 然而，如果你观察却不持有自己的观点、 判断、评价， 或者觉察到你自身的局限， 将局限弃之一边然后去观察，那么就不会有扭曲了， 那时你和我都是在如实地观察“真实现状”。
21:16 You know, to observe needs a great deal of energy. 你要知道，观察需要巨大的能量。
21:27 If you want to observe that tree very closely you have to attend to it. 如果你想要仔细地观察那棵树， 你就必须关注它。
21:35 You have to give your mind and your heart to the light on the leaf, to the shape of the trunk, to every movement of the branches, you have to give your whole attention to it. 你必须全神贯注于 叶子上的光、 树干的形状、 树枝的每一次摇曳， 你必须投以全身心的关注。
21:53 But if you are vaguely looking at it, and your thoughts wandering off, then it’s a wastage of energy, the wandering off, and therefore you do not have the sufficient energy to observe. 如果你很含糊地看着它， 思想游离开去， 那么这——思想的游离——就是一种能量的浪费， 因此，你就没有足够的能量去观察了。
22:12 Is that all right? 对吗？
22:20 As we said, either we observe that bird... 正如我们所说，要么我们观察 那只鸟
22:50 We observe without an image, or with an image. 我们观察它而不持有一个意象，要么就持有一个意象。
23:00 The observation through an image is a wastage of energy, and you need energy to change ‘what is’. 透过意象的观察就是一种能量的浪费， 而你需要能量去改变“真实现状”，
23:15 And we are going to investigate together ‘what is’. 我们正在一起探究“真实现状”。
23:26 Now, we have divided consciousness as the conscious and the hidden: the conscious mind and the unconscious mind, the subconscious, and so on – all the various divisions. 现在，我们已将意识分为意识和潜藏的意识： 意识头脑和无意识头脑， 或者称为“潜意识”，等等——各种分类。
23:46 We are familiar with the conscious activity of the mind: what it thinks, the various jobs it has to do, the automatic, habitual activity, the everyday events, actions, that have to be carried out. 我们很熟悉头脑意识层面的活动： 它在思考什么， 它需要做的各项工作， 无意识的、习惯性的活动， 日常的事务、行动——那些必须得做的事。
24:15 Then there is all that movement which is hidden, which is the unconscious, the deeper layers of the mind. 然后还有所有那些潜藏着的活动， 它们是无意识的，潜藏在心灵深处。
24:33 Now, to bring about a radical revolution in the whole consciousness, which is necessary in order to produce quite a different kind of civilisation in which man can live in peace with another man without conflict, one has to look at this whole content. 现在，要带来一场 整个意识中的彻底革命 ——这场革命是必需的，如此才能创造出 一种截然不同的文明， 人类可以在其中和睦相处， 没有冲突—— 那么，我们就必须观察意识的全部内容。
25:04 Either one brings about superficial order at the conscious level, or one brings about, through mere observation, order… 要么我们带来的是表面上的秩序， 意识层面的秩序， 要么我们就通过单纯的观察带来 秩序
25:28 whether order is within consciousness or outside of it. 不管这种秩序是意识之内的还是之外的。
25:36 I wonder, is this all too complicated? Bene? May I go on? Look, we try to bring order, don’t we, within consciousness? 我在想这一切是不是太复杂了？ 贝内，我可以继续讲吗？ 瞧，我们都想给我们的意识带来秩序，不是吗？
25:55 That is, we try to analyse, we try to conform, we try to discipline, we try to change the pattern of our thought, of our existence, and so on – within consciousness. 也就是，我们努力去分析， 我们努力去遵从、去训练， 我们努力去改变我们的思维模式， 我们的生活方式，等等——在意识之中改变这一切。
26:14 And consciousness is the content... is the content. Consciousness cannot exist without its content. 而意识就是其内容 意识就是意识的内容。 没有了意识的内容，意识就不可能存在。
26:29 And we are trying to move the contents in different places, and hoping thereby to bring order, whereas order exists outside consciousness. 而我们却想把它的内容移到别处， 并希望由此会带来秩序， 然而，秩序是存在于意识之外的。
26:55 You understand the first proposition, the first perception: seeing that the content is consciousness. 你来理解第一个论点， 第一个看法： 看到意识的内容就是意识。
27:08 You have no consciousness without all its content: your thoughts, your ideas, your hopes, your despairs, your sense of frustration – all that is your consciousness. 没有了意识所有的内容，你就不会有意识： 你的思想、观念、 希望、绝望、 挫折感—— 这一切都是你的意识。
27:22 And in that consciousness, you are trying to bring order. 你试图为这个意识带来秩序。
27:29 And order cannot exist in that consciousness. 然而秩序不可能存在于这个意识中。
27:36 Order can only exist outside, at a different dimension. 秩序只存在于意识之外，存在于不同的维度之中。
27:47 Now, how is it possible to reach, or to come upon that dimension? 那么，要怎样才有可能达到或遇见那个维度呢？
27:58 Right? You are following? I realise, if I am in that state, I realise that my life is conflict, both outwardly and inwardly. 对吗？你们跟上了吗？ 我意识到 ——如果我处在这种状态中的话—— 我意识到我的生活充满冲突——外在、内心都是如此。
28:18 I realise that my consciousness, the ‘me’, is its content – the furniture, the attachments, the sense of possession, the desire for power, position, prestige, status, pleasure, fear – all that is my consciousness. 我意识到我的意识，那个“我”，就是它的内容： 我的家具，我的依赖物， 占有感， 对权力、地位、 名声、身份、享乐的渴望以及恐惧—— 这一切都是我的意识。
28:46 And I am trying to bring order in that consciousness, and I see that’s not possible. 而我却想在这个意识中带来秩序， 我发现这是不可能的。
28:59 There is order only outside that consciousness, and the mind must try to find out what that different dimension is. 秩序只存在于这个意识之外， 而心必须要去弄清楚 那个不同的维度是什么。
29:23 First of all, I see my life is fear – enormous amount of fear. 首先， 我看到我的生活充满恐惧， 无数的恐惧。
29:38 My life is guided through fear and pleasure. Those are the true central facts of one’s life, pleasure and fear. 恐惧与快乐左右着我的生活。 这些是我们生活的核心事实——快乐与恐惧。
29:53 They are the two sides of the same coin. May I go on? There’s lots more to talk about, that’s why I want to get on with it. And I hope you can follow all this. If not, I’m sorry, I can’t help you. So, one’s life is based on these two factors, pleasure and fear, and what we call love. 它们不过是同一个硬币的两面罢了。 我可以继续讲吗？ 还有很多要讨论的， 这也就是为何我要继续讲这些的原因。 我希望你们能跟上这些， 如果你跟不上，很抱歉，我也无法帮你。 因此，我们的生活是基于这两种因素的 ——快乐和恐惧， 以及我们所谓的“爱”。
30:29 Is love pleasure? Is love desire? Or is it something entirely different? And also, I must find out what is death, because that’s part of my living. 爱是快乐吗？ 爱是欲望吗？ 还是爱是截然不同的东西？ 同时，我也必须搞清楚什么是死亡， 因为那也是我生活的一部分。
30:51 So one’s life is pleasure, fear, love, and death. 因此，我们的生活就是快乐、恐惧、爱和死亡。
31:11 And within that field, the mind is not only trying to bring about order, but also it wants security – within that field. 在这个领域中， 头脑不但试图带来秩序， 同时也想在这个领域里获得安全感。
31:26 Because the brain cells can only function efficiently, totally, effectively, when it is completely secure, whether it can be secure neurotically or secure in freedom. 因为脑细胞若要有效地运作， 完整地、高效地运作， 只有当它感到彻底安全时才可能。 无论是一种带有神经质的安全感， 或是自由之中的安全。
31:54 I do not know, if you have not noticed, the neurotic people are secure in an idea, in a belief, in a concept. 我不知道你有没有注意到， 神经质的人会在某个观念、 信仰或概念中找到安全感。
32:04 To them, that becomes the very essence of security. 对他们来说，这些就是安全感的核心要素。
32:13 So, when the mind seeks security in an idea, it is neurotic. 因此，当头脑在观念中寻求安全感时，它就会变得神经质。
32:27 Do you accept that? Do you see it? Or when it finds security in a belief, in a dogma, in a concept. 你同意这点吗？ 你看到这点了吗？ 或者它就在某个信仰、 教条或概念中找到安全感。
32:42 It finds security there, but it’s a neurotic security because it essentially divides people. 它在那里找到了安全感，但那是一种神经质的安全感， 因为它本质上分裂了人类。
32:59 And seeing all this in one’s life – the conflict, the misery, the sorrow, the fear, the anxiety that comes about when one has the ideological faith in something, the despair, the utter sense of frustration – that’s our life. 而看到了生活中的这一切 ——冲突、痛苦、 悲痛、恐惧， 以及当我们在意识形态上有某种信仰时 所产生的那种焦虑， 还有绝望、 彻底的失败感—— 这就是我们的生活。
33:40 And we are frightened of death, old age, disease, and death. 并且我们也害怕死亡， 害怕衰老、疾病和死亡。
33:52 That is the whole living of our life. 这就是我们一生的全部生活。
34:02 And being afraid, we believe. 因为害怕，我们就有了信仰。
34:09 Being afraid, we have faith in something. 因为害怕，我们就会迷信某些东西。
34:16 Being afraid of death, we have various theories, believe in reincarnation, resurrection, you know, every form of hope. 因为害怕死亡，我们发明了各种理论、 相信有轮回、复活 ——你知道的——各种各样的希望。
34:31 And that is our daily life of disorder. 这就是我们混乱的日常生活。
34:40 Now, how is one to bring about order in this disordered world, which is myself, which is yourself? 那么，我们要如何给这混乱的世界带来秩序， 而这个混乱的世界就是我自己，就是你自己？
34:53 How is one to live a life that is completely orderly, without any contradiction? 我们要如何过一种完全有序的生活， 毫无任何冲突呢？
35:06 I think that is what most of us want. The more sane, rational, we are, the more demanding that our life be rational, healthy, moral, righteous. 我相信这是我们大多数人想要的。 我们越是健全和理性， 我们就愈加要求我们的生活也必须是理性、 健康、道德、正义的。
35:26 And not finding it there, then we invest, not only our money, but also our hope, in churches, in myths, in various doctrines, and all the imported, exotic religions: Krishna consciousness – all right? 由于无法在生活中找到这些东西， 于是我们就投资， 不仅将我们的金钱，也将我们的希望 投资于教堂、 神话、 各种教义、 以及所有那些引入进来的异国宗教： 奎师那知觉 ——对吗？——
36:03 – various forms of yoga, various forms of meditation. 各种各样的瑜伽， 各种形式的冥想。
36:17 When something of that kind is imported into this country, you ought to immediately export it because you don’t know a thing about it. 当这类事物引进到这个国家时， 你们应该立即把它赶出去， 因为你们对它一无所知。
36:32 You’re a lot of gullible people. All that you want is experience which will give you pleasure. 你们都是些很容易上当的人。 你们只想要能够给你们带来快乐的经验。
36:45 And you have tried drugs, and you are quarrelling over marijuana, and you will quarrel over something else because all that you’re concerned with is the furthering of pleasure in experience, and therefore, that brings more disorder in your life. 你们已经尝试过毒品了， 你们就大麻而争论不休， 同时也会为了别的事情争吵不休， 因为你只关心 能够在经验中获得更大的快乐， 因此，这些给你的生活带来了更多的混乱。
37:14 So what we are going to do now, is to see whether the human mind – your mind, the human mind – can radically change. 因此，现在我们要做的 就是去看看人类的心灵， ——你的心，人的心灵—— 是否能彻底转变。
37:35 You will say then, ‘How is it important if one individual, one human being changes? 然后你会问， “如果只有一个个体改变， 只有一个人改变，又有什么重要的？
37:45 How can he affect the whole world?’ You know, if you were changing, if you actually were changing you would never put that question. 他要如何影响全世界呢？” 你知道，如果你改变了，真正地改变了， 你就永远不会提出这个问题。
38:00 It’s only the person who is not changing, wants to find an excuse for not changing, and says, ‘Well, what good will that do if I change?’ What we are trying to do here this morning, is to understand and talk or 只有没有改变的人 才会去找不改变的借口， 他就会说，“哦，我改变了又有什么好处呢？” 今天早上我们在这里要做的 是去了解和讨论或者
38:24 see the significance of total change. 去看到彻底改变的重大意义。
38:32 As we said, order doesn’t exist within the field of consciousness. 正如我们说过的， 秩序无法存在于意识的领域里。
38:42 If you see that clearly for yourself, then you will ask, 'How is the mind, which is so disorderly, so corrupt, so petty, shoddy, how is that mind to come upon something totally different, at a different dimension altogether?' 如果你自己能很清楚地看到这点，你就会问， “心是如此混乱、 腐败、渺小、琐碎，它要怎样才能 遇见那截然不同的、 完全处于不同维度的事物呢？”
39:12 Is the question clear? You understand my question? Now, when you put that question to yourself, that is: one lives in disorder, and one sees any form of movement of thought in that field will further disorder. Right? 这个问题清楚了吗？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 现在，当你向自己提出这个问题时， 也就是，我们生活在混乱之中， 并且看到了任何形式的 意识领域中的思想活动都只会助长混乱。对吗？
39:54 Therefore one says, 'How is the mind, which is so chattering, which is so active, which is so endlessly imagining, remembering, contriving, how is that mind to bring order?' 因此我们问，“心 是如此喋喋不休， 如此活跃，永无止境地在想象着、 记忆着、计划着 ——这样的心要如何带来秩序呢？”
40:17 Have you got the question clear? 你清楚这个问题了吗？
40:29 Now, to bring about order, the mind must be completely silent. 要带来秩序， 心必须彻底安静。
40:46 And that’s where the importance lies of meditation. 这就是冥想的重点所在。
40:58 You know, that word has been brought from India, and there are various forms of meditation in this country. 你知道，“冥想”这个词来自于印度， 在那个国度里，有着各类形式的冥想。
41:14 And we are going to tear them all to pieces, seeing what is false in all of them. 而我们要彻底粉碎它们， 看清它们的虚假所在。
41:28 When you see what is false, you see the truth of it, and therefore you'll never touch it. 当你看清什么是虚假的，你就看到了它的真相， 因此你永远不会再去碰它。
41:39 Because the whole idea is the mind must be absolutely quiet to bring about order within itself. 因为整个理念就是， 心必须绝对安静， 从而带来它内在的秩序。
41:55 Because to look at that tree, if your mind is chattering, you can’t look. You can only look completely if your mind is quiet. That’s simple, isn’t it? That means you must give your whole attention to it. 因为要看那棵树， 如果你的心在喋喋不休，你就无法去看。 只有当你的心很安静时，你才能全然地看。 这很简单，不是吗？ 也就是说你必须对它投以全身心的关注。
42:18 Attention being not only seeing the significance of the look, the understanding, the intelligence, – all that is implied in being completely attentive – otherwise you cannot possibly see anything or hear anything. 关注不仅仅是看到表象的意义， 它也是了解与智慧， ——这一切都包含在那种全然的关注中—— 否则你就不可能看见或听见任何东西。
42:46 You know, when you love music, you listen, don’t you? 你知道，如果你喜欢音乐， 你就会聆听它，不是吗？
42:55 You listen to it with your heart, with your mind, with your body, with your eyes, with everything that you have, otherwise you are not a musician, you are just enjoying sound. 你会用心去聆听， 用你的头脑、你的身体、 你的双眼、你所拥有的一切去听， 否则你就不算是个音乐家， 你只不过是在享受声音而已。
43:13 So, you can observe only when the mind is completely still. 因此，唯有心灵全然寂静，你才能观察
43:25 You can see another only when your mind is quiet, when your mind is not filled with images, then you can see another, and be totally in communication with another. 只有当你心灵安静时，你才能看到别人， 当你的心没有充斥着各种意象， 你就可以看到他人， 并且可以与他人进行完全的交流。
43:47 Silence is necessary to listen. 寂静是聆听所必需的。
43:57 That is the central factor of observation. 这就是观察的核心要素。
44:04 To see clearly, the mind must be completely quiet, and your body too – the whole structure. 要看清楚，心必须完全安静下来， 你的身体也一样——整个组织结构，
44:15 Your mind, your brain cells and your nerves must be totally quiet, otherwise you cannot see clearly. 你的头脑、你的脑细胞、你的神经都必须彻底安静， 否则你就无法看清楚。
44:29 Now, that is the fact, which you and I understand it fairly simply. 这是个不争的事实， 你和我很容易就能理解它。
44:38 Then the question arises, 'How is the mind to be made quiet?' 那么问题就来了， “如何让心灵安静？”
44:46 You understand? That’s the natural, normal question. That's a wrong question, and in that you are caught. 你明白吗？这是个很自然、很正常的问题。 但这是个错误的问题， 而你陷入于其中。
44:59 You yourself see that when you listen to something, when you see a beautiful mountain, a tree, a bird on the wing, your mind must be totally quiet. 当你自己发现：在聆听某物时， 在你欣赏美丽的山川，观赏一棵树， 凝望飞翔的鸟儿时， 心必须完全安静下来。
45:15 You see that, you understand it, you do it. And you say, ‘If I could make my mind so quiet, then everything would be simple.’ Then you ask: 'How is it to be made quiet?' 你看到了这点，理解了它，你就去这样做。 而你却说， “如果我能让心安静下来，那一切都会变得简单。” 接着你会问：“要如何让它安静呢？”
45:38 When you ask that question, there are all the gurus, the teachers, the students, the professionals that say, ‘I will teach you how to be quiet.’ Right? You are following all this? 当你问这个问题时，所有的古鲁、 老师、学者、 专业人士就会说，“我会教你如何安静下来。” 不是吗？你都跟上了吗？
45:56 So they have a system. 因此他们有一套体系。
46:03 As I said, we are going to tear all this to pieces to find out. You may belong to all of them, probably you do, you’ve got your own system of meditation, or system of this or that. 正如我说过的，我们要粉碎这一切从而发现真相。 你也许隶属于他们， 或者你有着自己的冥想体系， 这个体系或那个体系。
46:18 And we are going to look into all that. System implies a goal, an end, and a means to that end, doesn’t it? 而我们将要去探究这一切。 体系意味着有一个目的、一个结果， 并且有一种方法去达到那个目的，不是吗？
46:34 Please listen to this carefully. There is the Christian method, the Hindu method, the Zen method, the various methods, including the transcendental methods. 请仔细听好。 有基督教的方法、 印度教的方法、 禅宗的方法， 各种方法， 包括超觉冥想的方法。
46:57 Method being a means to an end – the end you have projected. 方法就是达到某个目标的手段 ——你所投射出来的目标。
47:13 You have projected the end, calling it enlightenment, God, whatever it is, whether you have projected it, or your guru, or your teacher, or your priest, they have projected it for you, and you accept it. 你投射出了那个目标， 把它称为开悟、上帝，无论什么， 不管那是你自己投射的，还是你的古鲁、 你的老师或者你的神父， 他们替你投射出来而你接受了它。
47:31 And then they offer you the method to achieve that end. 然后他们会提供给你达到那目标的方法。
47:38 The end is your projection. And when you practise the method, which promises the achievement of that end, it is the process of self-hypnosis. 那个目标是你自身的投射。 当你练习那个方法 ——它承诺会帮你达成目标， 那实际上是一种自我催眠的过程。
47:54 Got it? You know, I used to know a man – for twenty-five years he practised meditation, nothing else but that. 明白了吗？ 你知道，我曾经认识一个人， 他练习冥想二十五年， 除了冥想没有别的。
48:17 He left his family, went off into the woods, lived a monastic life, and meditated. 他离家出走，跑进森林里， 过着一种出家生活，整日冥想。
48:27 And unfortunately, somebody brought him to one of the talks in which the speaker was talking about meditation, amongst other things, and pointed out that this form of meditation with a system and an end is self-hypnosis. 不幸的是，有人把他带了过来，听了一场 讲话者的演讲，演讲中谈到了冥想， 还有一些其他的东西， 讲话者指出了 这种有体系和目标的冥想是自我催眠。
48:52 He came to see me the next day, and he said, ‘You are perfectly right. Twenty-five years I’ve practised meditation, and now I realise that I have wasted my life.’ You know, that requires a great deal of perception and vitality, and energy, to acknowledge something that’s not true that you have been doing. 第二天他来见我，说： “你说的完全正确。 我练习冥想二十五年， 现在我终于明白，我这是在浪费生命。” 你知道，那需要大量的觉察、活力 和能量，才能承认某件事是虚妄的 ——某件你一直在做的事。
49:18 Then there is this imported transcendental meditation – mantra yoga. 然后还有那种引进过来的超觉冥想 ——曼陀罗瑜伽。
49:28 You know this? Do some of you do that? Or you are ashamed to acknowledge it. 你知道这个吗？你们中有人做吗？ 或者你羞于承认。
49:42 As I said, you ought to export immediately all these things. 正如我说过的，你应该立即把这些东西赶出去。
49:49 They are a wastage of energy. They bring illusion. 它们是在浪费你的能量。它们带来了幻觉。
49:58 You know, the whole idea of mantra yoga, which is transcendental meditation in this country, the whole idea is that through a repetition of certain words, first verbally, loudly, then silently, and after reaching a certain point, you take off – whatever that may mean. 你知道，曼陀罗瑜伽的整个理念 ——它在这个国家被称为超觉冥想， 它的整个理念就是通过重复某些词语， 首先是口头重复，大声念诵，然后是默念， 在达到某种程度以后，你就“出体”了 ——不管这是什么意思。
50:37 You can repeat any word, but it’s more romantic if it is a Sanskrit word. 你可以重复任何词语， 如果那是梵语，就更富浪漫色彩了。
50:49 It is a word, or a series of words which your teacher, your guru gives to you, in secrecy. 那一个词或一连串词是你的老师、 你的古鲁秘密授予你的。
50:58 You pay for it, and you think you are going to get heaven. You do get heaven, but it’s your heaven invented by you. 你为此掏钱，然后认为你将会上天堂。 你的确可以上天堂，但那是你自己发明的天堂。
51:13 And they are also adding now, a new kind of yoga, which is kundalini yoga. 现在他们又增加了一种新的瑜伽， 叫做昆达里尼瑜伽。
51:20 You’ve heard of that too, I’m sure. Don’t touch any of these things. They are most dangerous. 我相信你也听说过了。 不要去接触任何这类东西，它们是最危险的。
51:33 That is, if I may tell you, but if you enjoy illusion, if you enjoy being in a state of hypnotising yourself in the name of God or enlightenment or truth, go to it. 就是如此——如果允许我告诉你的话， 但如果你享受那个幻觉， 如果你享受待在那个自我催眠的状态中 ——以上帝、开悟或真理的名义——那就去做吧。
51:54 And there are various forms of disciplines, practices, all promising what you want, which is enlightenment, happiness, truth, and so on. 有各种各样的戒律和练习， 它们都承诺能带来你想要的东西， 也就是开悟、幸福、真理等等。
52:11 That is, you want more and more wider experiences, because you’re bored with your daily life. 也就是说，你想要更多、更广的体验， 因为你厌倦了自己的日常生活。
52:26 But you see that only a silent mind can observe. 然而你看到了唯有寂静的心才能观察。
52:36 Only a silent mind can bring about a complete order. 唯有寂静的心才能带来彻底的秩序。
52:45 So when you for yourself see the truth that no system – it doesn’t matter who says it – that any movement of thought must inevitably bring about a division, and therefore conflict, when you see the truth of all this, your mind becomes quiet. 因此，当你自己看清楚这个真相：即任何体系 ——这句话是谁说的并不重要—— 任何思想的活动 都不可避免地会引起分裂， 从而带来冲突， 当你看到了这一切的真相， 你的心就会安静下来。
53:23 To see the truth of all this is to have a quiet mind. You understand this? 要看到这一切的真相需要有一颗安静的心。 你了解了吗？
53:35 So you see, our difficulty is knowing we live a disorderly life, we are incapable of bringing order into it because we want order according to our contrivance, we want order according to our imagination, according to our pleasure and convenience, and in that field there is no order at all. 所以你看，我们的困难在于 知道自己过着混乱无序的生活， 却又无力让它变得有序， 因为我们想要的是符合自己计划的秩序， 符合我们想象的秩序， 符合我们快感和便利的秩序， 然而在那个领域里，根本就不存在秩序。
54:21 If you see that, and to see that, you need a quiet mind. You understand? 如果你看到这一点——要看到这点，你需要一颗安静的心。 你明白了吗？
54:34 Now, a further thing, which is: what is reality? 然后，更进一步的就是： 什么是“真实”？
54:58 Is there something which is not put together by the mind, by thought, by imagination? 是否存在某个事物，它不是由头脑拼凑起来的， 不是由思想或想象拼凑而成的？
55:09 Is there something which is not measurable, which man has been seeking for thousands and thousands of years? 是否存在不可度量的事物， 那样人类几千年来一直在寻找的东西？
55:20 You’ve understood my question? Man has always asked, from the beginning of time, knowing that his life comes to an end, knowing that he is always endlessly in conflict with himself and with the world, and knowing that he cannot bring order into that, then he asks if there is something beyond all that. 你明白我的问题吗？ 从最早的时候开始，人类就一直在追问， 因为知道自己的生命终会结束， 知道自己总是 处于无止境的冲突中——与自己、与世界的冲突， 在清楚自己无法为之带来秩序以后， 他就追问是否存在某种超越这一切的事物。
56:00 In that very asking, he is escaping from his own life. You understand? We are not escaping. We see order is necessary, that must be established. 在这种提问中，他逃避了自己的生活。 你清楚了吗？ 而我们没有在逃避。我们看到秩序是必需的， 我们必须建立起秩序。
56:15 Then you can ask the question – after establishing, laying the foundation of behaviour, righteousness, order – then one can ask the question: 'Is there something beyond all this?' 那时你才能问这个问题——在建立 和打下了行动、正直与秩序的基础以后—— 那时我们才能问这个问题：“是否存在某种超越这一切的事物？”
56:31 You are following me? Am I making myself clear? 你跟上我了吗？ 我说清楚了吗？
56:40 Now, how is one going to find out? 那么，我们要如何去发现真相？
56:48 You can believe in something, you can believe that there is something which is beyond time and thought. 你可以信仰某物， 你可以去相信存在着某种 超越时间和思想的事物。
56:57 Belief is not an actuality. You don’t believe that the sun is shining – it is shining. It’s only when you do not know, when you haven’t understood, when it isn’t in your mind, then you believe, then you have faith in something. 信仰并非真实。 你不需要去相信太阳在发光——它就是在发光。 只有当你不知道的时候， 当你还不明白，当你心中还没有那个东西时， 那时你才会去相信，那时你才会去信仰某物。
57:23 So, to find that out, the mind must be free totally from belief, mustn’t it? 因此，要去发现它的真相，心必须完全脱离信仰， 不是吗？
57:41 Belief implies fear. There is your belief, another’s belief. Belief divides people. So the mind must be free, free from fear which has created all our conditioning, both physical conditioning as well as psychological conditioning. 信仰意味着恐惧。 你有你的信仰，别人有他的信仰。 信仰分裂了人类。 因此，心必须解脱出来， 摆脱掉恐惧 ——是恐惧造成了我们所有的局限， 既包括生理上的局限，也包括心理上的局限。
58:17 So can the mind be free of fear? Fear exists only in the movement of thought. 那么心能否从恐惧中解脱出来呢？ 恐惧只存在于思想的活动之中。
58:33 And from that realisation, one says, ‘Can thought be quiet?’ Thought functioning logically, sanely, effectively in one direction, and completely quiet in another direction. 明白了这些以后，我们问：“思想能安静下来吗？” 在某个方向上，思想可以逻辑、明智、 有效地运作； 而在另一个方向上，则完全保持安静。
58:57 Because thought creates fear. That is, you are living now, and there is death. 因为是思想制造了恐惧。 也就是说，你现在活着， 但是会死去。
59:08 Death is some time in the future, or perhaps tomorrow or far away. 在将来的某刻死去，或许明天，或许还早。
59:15 Thought says, ‘I am afraid of that state of which I do not know, therefore I am frightened.’ Fear is, as pleasure, the product of thought. 思想说，“我害怕那种未知的状态， 因此，我感到恐惧。” 恐惧就像快乐一样，是思想的产物。
59:31 If you see the truth of that, not intellectually, verbally, then fear comes to an end. 如果你看到了这其中的真相——不是从智力上、文字上看到—— 那么，恐惧就会结束。
59:45 So, freedom is absolutely necessary to find out if there is something beyond all this confusion, mess, ugliness, beauty, you know, this thing that we call living, in which we try to bring order, in which all serious people do bring order, so that they behave righteously. 因此，自由是绝对必要的 ——如果你想要发现是否存在某种超越所有困惑、 混乱、丑陋和美丽的事物的话。 你知道，这就是我们所谓的生活， 我们试图在这种生活中带来秩序， 而所有认真的人都会为这种生活带来秩序， 由此他们的行为就是正直的。
1:00:18 There must be freedom. Freedom is not to do what you like. Freedom has responsibility. 我们必须要有自由。 自由并不是想做什么就做什么。 自由是带着责任的。
1:00:37 Freedom implies order. And in that freedom, because the mind is demanding freedom, that very freedom brings its own discipline. 自由意味着秩序。 在那种自由中， 因为心灵需要自由， 这份自由会带来它自身的纪律。
1:00:55 That is, the word ‘discipline’ means to learn, not to conform, not to suppress, but to learn. 也就是说，”纪律“一词意味着学习， 不是遵从， 不是压抑，而是去学习。
1:01:11 Learn ‘what is’, not about ‘what should be’. 学习“真实现状”是什么， 而不是学习“应该怎样”。
1:01:21 So freedom from fear, freedom from every form of belief. 所以要摆脱恐惧， 要摆脱各种信仰。
1:01:31 And there must be freedom of not belonging to a group. 必须要有那种不隶属于任何团体的自由。
1:01:40 You understand? Freedom from following, from accepting a teacher, a guru. 你明白吗？ 摆脱跟从， 不再接受某个导师或古鲁。
1:01:59 Freedom not to follow, therefore, freedom from authority. 拥有不再追随的自由， 进而从权威中解脱出来。
1:02:08 You understand? The authority of law is one thing, and the psychological authority and the acceptance of authority, psychologically, is another. 你清楚了吗？ 法律的权威是一回事， 而心理的权威 和接受心理上的权威，是另一回事。
1:02:28 We are talking about the psychological authority. Because you are afraid, therefore you follow somebody. You want enlightenment, which is your projection, therefore you follow your guru, or whatever the gentleman or lady is. 我们在谈的是心理上的权威。 因为你害怕，所以你追随他人。 你想开悟，那是你投射的目标， 所以，你就追随你的古鲁，或者无论哪位先生或女士。
1:02:49 So there must be freedom from authority, from fear, from belief, which means that you are completely alone – not isolated. 因此，我们必须摆脱权威、 恐惧和信仰， 这意味着你是彻底独立的 ——不是孤立。
1:03:11 Because when you are alone, then you are directly in relationship with another. 因为当你独立时， 你和别人就有了直接的关系。
1:03:21 Like a beautiful flower, it is alone. 就好像一朵美丽的花，它独自盛开着。
1:03:28 It may have other flowers similar to it, but it is so beautiful, it is alone. What is beautiful is always alone. 也许有别的花和它很像， 但它仍旧是如此美丽，它是独立的。 美总是独立的。
1:03:42 It is only such a mind that can come upon this thing that is immeasurable, that has no name, that cannot be put into words. 只有这样的心灵 才能遇见那个不可度量的事物， 那个没有名字、 无法诉诸言词的东西。
1:04:00 Because what is described... The description is not the described. The word is not the thing. It is only a mind that has understood this whole phenomenon of living, and is able to understand itself, it is only such a mind that is completely free and quiet, still, that can come upon this extraordinary thing that man has sought through millennia. 因为被描述之物 描述并不是所描述之物。 语言并不是那事物本身。 只有这样的心——它已经了解了 生活的整个现象，也能够了解它自己， 只有这样的心才是完全自由、安然和寂静的， 它就能够遇见那个人类 几千年来一直在寻求的非凡之物。
1:04:51 Would you like to ask questions about this? Yes, sir? 对此你有什么想问的吗？ 请讲，先生。
1:04:56 Q: If I am free of fear and my mind is quiet, would I be looking for anything? 问：如果我没有恐惧并且内心很安静的话， 那我还会去追寻什么吗？
1:05:04 K: If my mind is free from fear, and is completely quiet, would I be looking for anything? 克：如果我内心没有恐惧并且彻底安静的话， 那我还会去追寻什么吗？
1:05:21 If my mind is quiet, free from fear, would I be looking for anything? 如果我内心安静，没有恐惧， 那我还会去追寻什么吗？
1:05:31 You see, you have put a question which is not a question at all. I am not being rude to you, sir. When you say, 'If I am in a state of no fear, then will I be seeking anything?' 你瞧，你提的问题根本不是个问题。 先生，我并不是对你不敬。 当你说， “如果我处于没有恐惧的状态，那我还会追寻什么吗？”
1:05:52 But you are not in a state of not being afraid, that is a supposition. That has no reality. Right? 其实你并没有处在那种状态中， 那是个假设，它不是真实的。对吗？
1:06:02 It’s like my saying, ‘Well, if I was the Queen of England, I would do this’, but I’m not the Queen of England. 这就像是我在说， “哦，如果我是英国女王，我就会这么做”一样， 但其实我不是英国女王。
1:06:14 So you put an impossible question, saying, 'If I am that, then what shall I do?' But first, sir, be free of fear, and then you will know whether there is something to seek or not, then there is no such thing as seeking. 所以你提了一个不可能的问题，你说， “如果我是那样的，我会怎么做？” 所以首先，先生，先摆脱恐惧，然后你就会知道 有没有要去寻找的东西了， 那时就不会有“寻找”这回事了。
1:06:33 Do you know what that word means: 'to seek?' 你知道“寻找”这个词是什么意思吗？
1:06:40 To search out, to find out. 它的意思是去找到、去发现。
1:06:49 That’s the meaning of that word ‘to seek’. Now you are seeking. What are you seeking? And how do you know that what you find is the real? 这就是“寻找”这个词的意思。 你现在正在寻找。你在寻找什么？ 你又怎么知道你找到的东西就是真实的？
1:07:07 How will you know what you find may be a false thing? 你怎么才能知道你所找到的东西也许是虚假的呢？
1:07:14 So, to find out in your search what is true there must be recognition, mustn’t there? 所以，要在你的寻找中搞清楚什么是真实的， 就必须要有辨识力，不是吗？
1:07:22 Right? You're following this? I must recognise in my search, 'that is the truth' or 'that is the false'. 对吗？你跟上了吗？ 我必须在寻找过程中认出它来，“那就是真理” 或者“那是虚假的”。
1:07:31 Now, recognition implies something I’ve already known. 而“认出”就意味着某个我已经知道的东西。
1:07:40 So what I am doing when I am using the word ‘seeking’, I am only seeking what I have already known. 所以当我使用“寻找”这个词，我在做什么呢？ 我只是在寻找我已经知道的东西。
1:07:49 You follow? Therefore, don’t seek, but be with ‘what is’. 你明白吗？ 因此，不要去寻找， 而是和“真相”共处。
1:08:01 You see, sir? Look, there is fear – of that we all know – fear of death, fear of old age, fear of yesterday’s pain being repeated, fear of public opinion, fear of being dominated, fear of not being loved. 你懂了吗，先生？瞧，存在着 我们都熟知的恐惧， 害怕死亡、害怕衰老、 害怕昨日的伤痛再次发生、 害怕公众舆论、 害怕被人支使、 害怕没人爱你。
1:08:25 Fear – we all know that. Fear of loneliness. Now, that’s a fact. Now, what takes place when there is fear? You want to go beyond it, you want to conquer it, you want to suppress it, you want to escape from it. 恐惧——我们大家都知道。 害怕孤独。 这些都是事实。 那么，当存在恐惧时会发生什么？ 你想要超越它，你想征服它， 你想压制它，你想逃避它，
1:08:48 When you escape from it, when you want to suppress it, when you try to conquer it, through courage, and all the rest of it, you are wasting energy because the fact is fear, that is ‘what is’. 当你逃避它，当你要压制它， 当你努力征服它时 ——通过勇气等等这些东西—— 你其实是在浪费能量，因为事实就是你在害怕， 这就是“真实现状”。
1:09:04 Now, if you don’t escape, but actually see the fear, then what takes place? 现在，如果你不逃避，而是真正看着恐惧， 那么会发生什么呢？
1:09:13 You're following all this? Now look, there is fear. I don’t escape through any form from the actual fact that there is fear, or envy. 这些你们都跟上了吗？ 你看，存在恐惧。 而我不以任何方式逃避， 逃避那个恐惧或妒忌的事实。
1:09:32 Now, how do I recognise that it is fear? How do I know it is fear? Because I’ve had similar reaction before. Otherwise, I couldn’t recognise it as fear, could I? Are you following all this? Or you're getting tired at the end of an hour? 那么，我是如何认出那是恐惧的？ 我怎么知道这就是恐惧？ 因为我以前曾有过类似的反应。 否则我就不会把它识别为恐惧，对吗？ 这些你都理解了吗？ 还是说过了将近一个小时，你已经疲惫不堪了？
1:09:59 So fear, when I say it is fear, it has already occurred, it has already happened before. 因此恐惧——当我说这是恐惧时， 恐惧就已经存在了， 它以前发生过。
1:10:10 And when I say, 'I am afraid,' I am only strengthening what has happened before. 当我说：“我很害怕” 我只是在强化以前发生过的事。
1:10:17 Are you following all this? So can I look at that thing which I’ve called fear non-verbally? 这些你听懂了吗？ 因此，我能否不带语言地看着我称之为“恐惧”的东西？
1:10:37 You’ve got fears, haven’t you? Haven’t you, sirs? You have, obviously, otherwise you wouldn’t be sitting here. 你有各种各样的恐惧，不是吗？ 你没有吗，先生们？ 很显然，你也有， 不然你就不会坐在这里了。
1:10:49 And can you look at that fear without escaping from it? 那么你能否看着恐惧而不逃避它呢？
1:10:56 Just look at it. Don’t analyse, which is another form of an escape. Don’t say, ‘What has caused that fear?’ which is another wastage of energy, but to look at it without any form of escape. 只是看着它。 不要去分析，分析是另一种形式的逃避。 也不要问“是什么原因造成了恐惧？” 这也是种能量的浪费， 而是去看着它却没有任何形式的逃避。
1:11:21 That means you have energy to look, haven’t you? Because you are not escaping, you are not wasting energy through escape. Right? 这意味着你有能量去看，不是吗？ 因为你没有逃避， 所以你就不会因为逃避而浪费能量，对吗？
1:11:32 So there is fear. Now, how do you look at it? Verbally? That is, has the word created the fear? 因此存在着恐惧，那么，你要如何观察它呢？ 通过语言文字去观察？那就是，是不是语言文字制造了恐惧？
1:11:46 You understand what I'm saying? 你明白我在说些什么吗？
1:11:53 Has the word 'fear' created the fear, or is there fear without the word? 是不是“恐惧”这个词制造了恐惧， 或者说，有没有不带语言文字的恐惧？
1:12:02 The word being the memory of the fear which you have had before. Oh, come on sirs, be quick, get on with it. “恐惧”这个词是我们对之前经历过的恐惧的记忆 ——噢，来吧先生们，加油，继续下去。
1:12:16 Wait a minute, please look. I am afraid for various reasons – death. I’m afraid. 等一下，请观察一下。 我害怕各种东西——比如死亡，这是我害怕的。
1:12:28 I am not escaping, not escaping by saying I must conquer, I must overcome it, I must do this, I must do that. 我不逃避， 我没有在逃避，说“我必须征服它”， “我必须克服它”， “我必须这样做，我必须那样做”。
1:12:42 So I do not escape, I am facing the fact as it is. 所以我没有逃避，我如其所是地面对事实。
1:12:49 Now, is the fact the result of a word, the word being the memory of a previous fear? 那么，恐惧的事实是语言文字的产物吗？ “恐惧”这个词就是对于之前恐惧的记忆？
1:13:01 Or is this fear something totally new, and therefore non-verbal? 还是说这种恐惧是全新的东西， 由此不是语言文字上的？
1:13:10 You understand this? How do I look at it? Am I looking through the word or without the word? 你理解了吗？ 我要如何去看它？ 我是通过词语去看，还是不通过词语？
1:13:24 If I look without the word, is it fear? 如果我不带词语去看，它还是恐惧吗？
1:13:35 That is, now I have complete energy to look. 也就是，此刻我用全部的能量去看。
1:13:42 And when I do look with total energy, fear is not. Do this sir, you will see. 当我运用全部的能量去看时，恐惧就消失了。 先生，去这样做，然后你就会明白。
1:13:54 Take envy, of which you are all familiar. 以嫉妒为例，这是你们大家都熟悉的东西。
1:14:01 Envy is comparison, measurement. Please listen to this. Envious: 'You look so nice, you’re so beautiful. You are intelligent, I am dull, I am stupid. You are much better than I am. You are a success, I am a failure. You are this, and you are that' – comparison, measurement. And that is envy. Now, can I live without envy, which is, without measurement, comparing myself with another? 嫉妒就是比较和衡量。 请听好。 嫉妒： “你真好看，你真漂亮。 你很聪明，而我很迟钝、很笨。 你比我好多了。 你很成功，而我是一个失败者。 你是这样的，你是那样的” ——比较和衡量， 这就是嫉妒。 那么，我能否没有嫉妒地生活， 也就是，不跟别人进行衡量和比较呢？
1:14:41 The other may be the hero, the god, the saint, the chief executive, or whatever he is. 别人也许是英雄、上帝、圣人、 董事长或者无论什么。
1:14:51 Can I look, can I live without any form of measurement? 我能否去看，去生活而不带有任何形式的衡量呢？
1:14:58 To find out, I see people are envious, and one realises one is envious. 把它搞清楚，我看到人们心怀嫉妒， 并且意识到自己也嫉妒。
1:15:09 Then one begins to rationalise it, 'If I am not envious in this world, I’ll be destroyed', which is a wastage of energy, because I am confronted with the fact that I am envious. 于是我们就开始把它合理化， “如果我在这个世界上不嫉妒的话，我就会被淘汰”， 但这是一种能量的浪费， 因为我面临着“我嫉妒”的事实。
1:15:27 And the whole social, religious structure is based on this envy. 而整个社会和宗教的结构都是建立在嫉妒之上的。
1:15:36 And through envy, I’m trying to find out the immeasurable. You understand how stupid we are? So, can I live without measurement? I don’t rationalise because when I rationalise, I can find excuses to be envious. 经由嫉妒，我试图去发现那个不可度量之物。 你明白我们是多么愚蠢了吗？ 因此，我能不能没有衡量地生活？ 我不去把它合理化， 因为当我把它合理化时，我就会为嫉妒找到借口。
1:16:04 Can I look at that feeling which I’ve called envy without the word which evokes or strengthens that feeling? 我能不能看着这种被称之为“嫉妒”的感受， 而不带有任何会唤起或加强那种感受的词语呢？
1:16:21 Which is, the word is the memory. 也就是，词语就是记忆。
1:16:28 The word is the symbol of the past. 词语就是过去的符号。
1:16:40 And when I look at that envy, I am looking with the eyes of the past. 当我观察嫉妒时， 我是带着过去的眼光在看它。
1:16:52 And so can I look at it afresh? And I can only look at it afresh when there is no escape, when there is no excuse, but look at it with all my energy. 因此我能否重新去看它？ 而要重新去看它， 只有当我们不逃避，不找借口， 以全部的能量去看它才行。
1:17:10 Then you will see that the thing which I have called envy – there is no such thing. 然后你就会看到这个我称之为“嫉妒”的东西， 根本就不存在。
1:17:20 Have you understood this? Not understood it verbally, but actually doing it. 你明白了吗？ 不是字面上理解，而是真正去这样做。
1:17:31 Yes, sir? 请讲，先生？
1:17:32 Q: So first we must look at the images which come between you and fear. Right? We must look at the images that come between you and the thing you are watching, which is fear. And then, when you’ve understood that the images prevent you from looking at fear, then the mind will be quiet and look at fear. 问：所以我们首先必须看到 存在于你和恐惧之间的意象。对吗？ 我们必须观察这些意象， 这些意象存在于你和你所观察的事物 ——也就是恐惧——之间。 然后，当你明白了 正是意象阻碍了你去观察恐惧时， 那时心就会安静下来，然后去观察恐惧。
1:17:56 K: The question is, to look at something: the tree, you, and another, there must be no image. Right? 克：问题是： 在看着某物时： 看一棵树，看你自己，看别人时， 必须没有任何意象。对吗？
1:18:22 How is the image formed? And can images, being formed, prevent it? You understand? 意象是怎么产生的？ 对于那些已经形成的意象，能否阻止它？你明白吗？
1:18:35 Sorry. 很抱歉。
1:18:47 How is an image formed? What is the machinery that forms an image? 意象是如何形成的？ 形成意象的机制是什么？
1:19:01 Have you noticed, when you listen to somebody – your wife or your husband, your friend – completely, you do not form an image? 你有没有注意到，当你仔细聆听别人时 ——你的太太、你的先生、你的朋友——全然地倾听， 你就不会产生任何意象？
1:19:24 When you are giving complete attention… 当你全神贯注的时候
1:19:33 Sorry. 很抱歉。
1:19:35 Q: Krishnamurti, you swallowed saliva, it came into your lungs, and you have to give it – K: I am doing that, sir. 问：克里希那穆提，你咽下了唾液， 它进入了你的肺部，而你必须给予它——

克：我在这么做，先生。
1:19:56 We are asking, 'How is an image formed?' and 'Why is it formed? 我们在问，“意象是如何形成的？”以及“为什么要形成意象？
1:20:04 What is the machinery that forms the image?' 形成意象的机制是什么？”
1:20:11 Have you noticed that when you do not pay attention, images are formed? 你有没有注意到，当你心不在焉时， 意象就会产生？
1:20:26 If I have a friend with whom I have lived for a number of years, I have formed an image about him: his insults, his dominance, his irritability, his pleasant phrases, his bullying, and so on. 如果我有一位共同生活了好些年的朋友， 我就会对他形成一个意象： 他的辱骂、 他的强势、 他的急躁、 他令人愉快的话语， 他的恃强欺弱，等等。
1:20:57 I have formed an image about him. Because I have formed that image in order to protect myself against him. 我形成了一个关于他的意象。 我之所以形成这个意象， 是为了在面对他的时候保护我自己。
1:21:08 And my relationship with him is through that image, and he has an image about myself. 我和他的关系是透过那个意象而产生的， 而他也有一个关于我的意象。
1:21:24 He has an image about me, and I have an image about him. And our relationship is between these two images. 他持有一个对我的意象，而我也持有对他的意象。 我们的关系是建立在这两个意象之间的。
1:21:39 And I have created this image in order to protect myself. 而我创造这个意象是为了保护我自己。
1:21:48 Right? Isn’t that a fact, that you have an image about your husband, your friend, your wife, your neighbour, your god, in order not to be hurt, in order to survive, in order to live a life which is not conflict? You follow? 对吗？这难道不是事实吗： 你对你丈夫持有一个意象， 对你的朋友，你的太太，你的邻居，你的上帝也一样， 这是为了避免受到伤害，是为了生存， 为了过一种不冲突的生活？你跟上了吗？
1:22:08 You isolate yourself through your image. 你通过意象把自己孤立起来，
1:22:15 You know why you have formed it. Now can that image forming be stopped? The machinery which forms the image, can that machinery come to an end? I’ll show it to you. Please do it as we are talking, that is worthwhile, not taking it home and throwing it overboard afterwards. 你知道自己为何要塑造这个意象。 那么，能不能停止塑造意象呢？ 形成意象的机制， 这个机制能不能结束呢？ 我会展示给你看。 请在我们讨论的时候就去这么做， 那是值得去做的，不要把它带回家， 然后就把它抛到九霄云外了。
1:22:45 We have understood why the machinery operates. The image making becomes important, – both outwardly, inwardly, at the conscious level as well as the unconscious level – the desire to protect oneself, not to be hurt, because we have lived a life of being hurt, from childhood we are hurt. 我们已经明白了为什么那种机制会运作。 意象的塑造变得很重要 ——不管是外在还是内在， 不管是在意识层面，还是无意识层面， 那种想要保护自己的渴望，不想被伤害的渴望， 因为我们的一生都在被伤害， 从童年开始我们就在受伤。
1:23:16 Don’t you know what it means to be hurt? 你难道不知道“受伤害”的意思吗？
1:23:23 And you don’t want to be hurt anymore, so you protect, resist. 而你再也不想受到伤害了， 所以你就防卫、抵抗。
1:23:34 The image is the resistance. Now, how does that come into being? Can that machinery be stopped? 意象就是抵抗。 那么，意象是怎么出现的呢？ 那种机制能停止吗？
1:23:50 It can be stopped only when you pay complete attention to what is being said, at the moment of what is being said. 要它停下来， 你只能全神贯注于讲话者所说的话 ——在他说出这些话的那一刻。
1:24:03 Have you understood, sirs? You insult me, you call me a fool, an ass, or whatever you like to call me, a great man, or marvellous this or that. 明白了吗，先生们？ 你侮辱了我， 你叫我傻瓜、蠢蛋， 或者无论你想叫什么， 比如称我为伟人、杰出的这个或那个。
1:24:22 And when you call me a fool, I pay attention to that – complete attention. 当你叫我傻瓜的时候，我会关注你说的话 ——全然关注。
1:24:33 Not react, not say, ‘Oh, you’re another...’ but just be totally aware of what you are being called. 不去回应，不说，“噢，你也是另一个……” 而只是去全然觉察对方所说的话。
1:24:48 In that state of attention, there is no image making. 在那种关注的状态中，就不会形成任何意象。
1:24:57 It is only when you are inattentive, the image is formed. 只有当你心不在焉时， 意象才会形成。
1:25:04 Have you understood this? Sir, do it, then you will see you will never be hurt. 这些你都明白了吗？ 先生，行动起来， 然后你就会发现你将永远不会受伤。
1:25:17 It’s only when you have an image about yourself as somebody, or this or that, then you are being hurt. 只有当你持有一个对自己的意象时 ——我是某某人、是这个或那个——你才会受伤。
1:25:27 You know the word ‘innocency’ means not to hurt or be hurt. 你知道“纯真”这个词，它意味着不去伤害，也不被伤害。
1:25:37 The Latin word ‘nocere’ comes from that, which means not to hurt, or not to be hurt. 这就是拉丁文的“nocere（伤害）”的出处， 纯真就是指不去伤害，也不被伤害。
1:25:51 And you are hurt when you resist, when you have an image about yourself. 而当你抵抗时， 当你持有关于自己的意象时，你就会受伤。
1:26:03 And the image making is to protect yourself against harm, against hurt, against every form of intrusion. 而塑造意象是为了保护自己 免受危害或伤害， 免受各种干扰。
1:26:22 And when you see that, you give attention to what is being said – total attention, your mind, your heart, your brain, everything attends. 当你看到这些， 你就会全神贯注于讲话者说的话 ——付出全部的注意，用你的头脑、你的心灵、 你的大脑，一切都在关注着。
1:26:39 In that state of attention, there is no hurt, and therefore no image making. 在这种关注的状态下，就不存在伤害， 由此也不会塑造意象。
1:26:48 And such a life is really a life of beauty, a great joy. 而这样的生活才是真正充满美和巨大喜悦的生活。
1:27:00 Q:What do you mean by not justifying, condemning or identifying? 问：你所说的不合理化、不谴责、不认同是什么意思？
1:27:06 K: What do you mean by justifying, condemning or judging. 克：你所认为的合理化、谴责或评判是什么意思？
1:27:28 When one is jealous – you know what it means, don’t you? 当我们心生嫉妒时， 你知道那意味着什么，不是吗？
1:27:35 Or is it something new? You all know it, don’t you? When one is jealous, one justifies, doesn’t one? ‘It’s right to be jealous, she or he belonged to me. It’s mine.’ And you justify that jealousy, you say, ‘she shouldn’t have done this, or he shouldn’t have done that.’ You are envious of that person, and you rationalise it, that is explain it, so as to strengthen your jealousy. 还是说嫉妒是个崭新的的东西？ 你们都很熟悉它，不是吗？ 当我们嫉妒时，我们就会把它合理化，不是吗？ “嫉妒是正常的，她（他）是属于我的。是我的。” 而你把这种嫉妒合理化，你说， “她（他）本不应该这样做。” 你嫉妒那个人，然后你把这种嫉妒合理化， 也就是去解释它，从而加强了你的嫉妒。
1:28:25 You like jealousy, you justify it. 你喜欢嫉妒，所以你替它辩护。
1:28:32 You recommend it, you say, 'that is part of love,' don’t you? 你推崇它，说，“这是爱的一部分”，不是吗？
1:28:42 Part of love, to be jealous. Lovely, isn’t it? 嫉妒是爱的一部分。 听起来不错，不是吗？
1:28:58 And that’s what we mean by living a disorderly life, where you justify the unjustifiable, where you condone that which cannot be condoned. 而这就是我们所说的“过着混乱的生活”的意思， 因为你在合理化那些不合理的东西， 容忍着那些不能容忍的事物。
1:29:21 How can love and jealousy exist together? 爱和嫉妒怎么可能同时存在？
1:29:29 But that’s our way of life, which we have accepted, and we justify it. 然而这就是我们的生活方式，我们已经接受了它， 并且把它合理化。
1:29:42 That’s what it means, sir. Isn’t that enough? It’s half past twelve. 先生，这就是它的意思。 差不多了吧？已经十二点半了。
1:29:53 Basta. Right sir. SUBTITLE TEXT COPYRIGHT 1972 KRISHNAMURTI FOUNDATION TRUST 到此为止了，先生。 克里希那穆提信托基金会字幕文字版权所有@1972年