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OJ80Q2 - 第二次问答会
美国，加州，欧亥
1980年5月8日



0:15 The speaker is not trying to tell you anything. He is not trying to convince you of anything or transmitting some ideas which he has or some concepts, or beliefs which you accept and then try to examine those beliefs, ideas and concepts. I think that we must be quite clear about that matter. 讲话者并没有试图告诉你任何东西。 他并没有试图说服你任何事情， 或者传播他的某些观点、 概念或者信仰让你接受， 然后再试着去检验这些信仰、观点和概念。 我认为这点我们必须非常清楚。
0:48 In answering these questions we both of us are investigating the question. It isn't the speaker is investigating and then tells you about it and then you accept it. But rather together we are going into it so that it is not one person understanding and then telling you about it. I hope that's clear. 在回答这些问题的过程中，我们双方是一起 在探究问题。 不是讲话者一个人在探究， 然后告诉你有关的内容，由你来接受。 而是我们一起去深入问题， 这样的话就不是我一个人在了解 然后告诉你答案了。我希望这一点已经清楚了。
1:21 First question: 'There is a prevalent assumption these days that everything is relative and a matter of personal opinion, that there is no such thing as truth or fact independent of personal perception. What is an intelligent response to this belief?' 第一个问题：“最近有一种非常流行的假说， 那就是认为一切都是相对的，都只是一个个人观点的问题， 并不存在什么诸如真理之类的事物， 或者某种无关个人看法的事实。 对于这种看法，智慧的反应是怎样的呢？”
1:50 'There is a prevalent assumption these days that everything is relative and a matter of personal opinion, that there is no such thing as truth or fact independent of personal perception. What is an intelligent response to this belief?' Right? “最近有一种非常流行的假说， 那就是认为一切都是相对的，都只是一个个人观点的问题， 并不存在什么诸如真理之类的事物， 或者某种无关个人看法的事实。 对于这种看法，智慧的反应是怎样的呢？” 对吗？
2:21 Is it that we are all so terribly personal? What I see, what you see, is the only truth? My opinion and your opinion are the only facts we have? That's what the question implies. That everything is relative. Goodness is relative, evil is relative, love is relative. And so as everything is relative that is: not whole, complete, truth, then our actions, our affections of personal relationship are relative, and can be ended whenever we like, whenever it doesn't please us and so on. That is the implication of this question. Right? 是不是因为我们都太过自我了？ 我看到的，或者你看到的，就是唯一的真理吗？ 我的观点和你的观点，这就是我们所拥有的唯一事实吗？ 这就是这个问题的含义。 也就是一切都是相对的。善良是相对的， 邪恶是相对的，爱也是相对的。 而由于一切都是相对的， 也就是说：并不存在完全的、彻底的真理， 所以我们的行动，我们个人关系中的感情 也是相对的，并且只要我们不喜欢了， 只要它不再取悦我们了等等，那么我们任何时候都可以结束它。 这就是这个问题的含义。对吗？
3:38 Now is there - we are both of us investigating, please, I am not telling you - is there such thing as truth? Apart from belief, apart from personal opinion, personal perception. Is there such thing as truth? This question has been asked by the ancient Greeks, by the Hindus in the ancient days, and by the Buddhists. It is one of the strange facts in the eastern religions that doubt was encouraged. You understand? To doubt, to question. And in the West it is rather put down. It is called heresy, if you doubt. So one must find out for oneself, apart from personal opinions, perceptions, experiences, which are always relative, whether there is a perception, a seeing which is absolute truth, not relative. You understand? You understand my question? Now how are you going to find out? If we say that personal opinion, perception are relative and therefore there is no such thing as truth, absolute, it then is relative. And according to that, our behaviour, our conduct, our way of life is relative. Casual, not complete, not whole, therefore fragmentary. I hope we are following each other. And we are trying to find out if there is such thing as truth which is not relative, personal opinion, perception. Right? So how do you set about it? 那么是否——请注意，我们双方是在一起探索着， 而不是我在告诉你什么——是否存在真理这种东西呢？ 无关信仰，无关个人观点， 也无关个人的看法。是否存在真理这种东西呢？ 这个问题古希腊人曾经问过， 古代的印度教徒曾经问过，佛教徒们也问过。 这是东方宗教中很奇特的事情之一， 那就是人们鼓励质疑。 你明白吗？去质疑，去发问。 而在西方，这些东西恰恰是被压抑的。 如果你质疑的话，人们就会把你叫做异端邪说。 所以我们必须要亲自去发现，除了个人的观点、 看法和经验——这些总是相对的—— 是否还存在着一种感知、一种洞察， 是绝对的真理，不是相对的。你明白吗？ 你明白我的问题了吗？ 那么，你要如何去发现呢？ 如果我们说个人的观点和看法总是相对的， 因此并不存在如真理一样 绝对的事物，那么它们就是相对的。 而根据这种观点，我们的行为、我们的举动， 我们的生活方式也是相对的。 它是随意的、不完整的，并非整体的， 因此是支离破碎的。 我希望我们跟上了彼此的思路。 而我们在试着发现是否存在真理这种东西， 它并不是那种相对的、个人的观点和看法。对吗？ 那么你要如何着手这个问题呢？
6:40 How would you, if this question is put to you, how would you find out if there is such thing as truth which is absolute, which is not relative, which is complete, which is never changing under climate, personal opinions and so on, how will you find out? How does your mind, the intellect, find out. Or thought find out? May we go on with this? Does it interest you, all this? I wonder why. (Laughs) Because when you are enquiring into something that demands a great deal of investigation, action in daily life, a sense of putting aside which is false. That's the only way to proceed. Right? That is, if we have an illusion, a fantasy, an image, a romantic concept of truth, or love and all the rest of it those are the very barriers that prevent moving further. 如果这个问题摆到了你面前，你要如何， 你要如何发现是否存在真理这种东西， 它是绝对的，不是相对的，是完满的， 永远不随风俗气候、个人观点等等而改变， 那么你要如何去发现？ 你的头脑、智力，或者思想， 它们要如何去发现呢？ 我们可以继续下去吗？ 这些东西吸引你吗，所有这些东西？ 我想知道为什么。（笑） 因为当你去质询某些东西的时候， 需要大量的探究， 需要每天的生活中有行动， 以及一种抛弃错误事物的敏感性。 这才是我们前进的唯一方式。对吗？ 也就是，如果我们有了一个错觉、一个幻想、一个意象， 一个关于真理、关于爱等等这些东西的浪漫概念时—— 它们其实正是阻碍我们继续前进的障碍。
8:16 Can one honestly investigate what is an illusion? Does the mind live in illusion? Or do we have illusions about people, about nations, about God, about religion, about everything? You follow? How our illusions come into being? I wonder if you follow all this. How does one have an illusion, what is the root of it? What do we mean by the word 'illusion'? It comes from the Latin and so on, from 'ludere', which means to play. The root meaning of that word is to play, 'ludere'. Which means playing with something which is not actual. You understand? The actual is what is happening whether it is what may be called good, bad, indifferent, and so on, what is actually taking place. And when one is incapable of facing what is actually taking place in oneself then to escape from that is to create illusion. I wonder... Right? 所以我们能够真诚地探讨错觉是什么吗？ 头脑是活在错觉中的吗？ 或者我们 对于他人、对于国家、对于上帝、对于宗教， 对于每一样事物是否有着错觉呢？你跟上了吗？ 我们的错觉是如何出现的？ 我在想你是否跟上了所有这些。 我们是如何会有错觉的，错觉的根源是什么？ 我们所说的“错觉”这个词是什么意思？ 它是来自于拉丁文等语言的， 来自于“ludere”这个词，它的意思就是玩耍。 错觉这个词的词根含义是去玩耍，“ludere”。 它的意思就是玩弄某些并不真实的事物。 你明白了吗？ 真实的是正在发生着的事情， 不管它被称为好的、坏的， 还是中性的等等，那种真实地实际发生着的事情。 而当我们无法面对 我们内在真实发生着的事情的时候， 去逃避这些事物就会制造出错觉。 我想知道……对吗？
10:15 Please don't agree, I am just exploring this, we are exploring together. The word 'illusion' implies to play with something that is not actual. 'Ludere'. I won't go into all the Greek and Latin meaning of it. And also in Sanskrit the very same words are used. 请不要同意我，我只是在探索这点， 我们是在一起探索着。 “错觉”这个词就意味着 玩弄某些并不真实的事物。“Ludere” 我就不再深入讲这个词所有的希腊和拉丁文意思了。 而在梵文中，我们也同样用到了错觉这个词。
10:45 So if one is unwilling or afraid or wants to avoid what is actually going on that very avoidance creates the illusion, a fantasy, a romantic movement away from 'what is'. If we accept that as the meaning of that word illusion: moving away from 'what is'. Right? Can we go on from there? No, please don't agree with me, see this as a fact. Then can we avoid this movement, this escape from actuality? So then we ask, what is the actual? Right? You are following? The actual is that which is happening, which is the responses, the ideas - actually, the actual belief you have, the actual opinion you have. And to face them is not to create illusion. Right? Can we go in our investigation, have we gone that far? Right? Because otherwise you can't go further. 所以，如果我们不愿意，或者害怕， 或者想要去回避真实发生着的事情， 那么那种逃避本身就会制造出错觉， 制造出一种幻想，一种远离“现状”的浪漫的活动。 我们是否同意这就是错觉这个词的意思： 也就是远离“现状”。 对吗？那么我们能够从这里继续讨论下去吗？ 不，请不要同意我，请看到这是一个事实。 那么，我们可以避免这种活动，这种对于事实的逃避吗？ 所以接下来我们就要问了，什么是真实的？ 对吗？你跟上了吗？ 真实的就是正在发生着的事情，也就是那些反应 和想法——你实际上抱有的信仰， 你抱有的真实看法。 去面对这些东西就是不去制造错觉。对吗？ 我们能够开始我们的探询了吗，我们是否已经进行到了这一步？ 对吗？因为否则的话你是无法继续前进的。
12:42 So as long as there are illusions, opinions, perceptions based on the avoidance of 'what is' then that must be relative. Right? Right, sir? Avanti? Shall we go on? Relativeness, which is... I won't go into the word 'relative' This can only take place when there is a movement away from the fact, from what is happening, 'what is'. In understanding 'what is' it is not your personal opinion that judges 'what is', it is not your personal perception but actual observation of 'what is'. You understand? One cannot observe what is actually going on if you say my belief dictates the observation, my conditioning dictates the observation. Then it is avoidance of the understanding of 'what is'. I wonder if you've got it. Right? Are we doing this? Actually doing it: see, perceive what is actual, your actual belief, your actual sense of dependency, your actual competitiveness and not move away from it, observe it. That observation is not personal. Right? But if you make it personal that is, 'I must, I must not, I must be better than that' then it becomes personal and therefore it becomes relative. Whereas if we could look at what is actually taking place then there is complete avoidance of any form of illusion. Right? Can we do this? You may agree to this verbally, but can we actually perceive our dependency - right? Either dependency on a person, on a belief, on an ideal or on some experience which has given you a great deal of excitement and all the rest of it - and therefore depend on those - that dependence will inevitably create illusion. So can we observe the fact that we are dependent and observe it. Right? 所以，只要还有着建立在对于“现状”回避基础之上的 错觉、观点和看法，那么就必定会有相对性。 对吗？ 对吗，先生？继续吗？我们可以继续下去吗？ 相对性，也就是……我不会再深入讲“相对性”这个词了， 这个词？不，我不会了——对不起。（笑声） 只有当存在逃离事实、逃离正在发生的事情、 逃离“现状”的活动时，相对性才会发生。 在了解“现状”的过程中， 不是用你个人的观点去判断那个“现状”， 事实并不是你个人的看法， 而是要实际地去观察那个“现状”。你明白吗？ 如果你说我的信仰决定着我的观察， 我的制约主导着观察的话， 那么我们就无法去观察实际发生的事情了。 那时你就是在逃避对于“现状”的了解。 我不知道你是否已经明白了这点。 对吗？我们在这么做吗？真正在这么做： 去看，去感知真实的现状，你真实的信仰， 你真实的依赖感，你真实的竞争性， 不要逃离它，而是去观察它。 那种观察并不是个人化的。对吗？ 然而，如果你把它变得个人化，也就是，“我必须这样，我不能那样， 我必须要比这更好”的话， 那么它就会变得个人化，因此它就变成相对的了。 然而，如果我们可以去观察真实发生着的事情， 那么我们就可以彻底避免任何形式的错觉了。 对吗？我们能够这样做吗？ 你或许会口头上同意这点，但是我们能够真正地 去感知我们的依赖吗？——对吗？ 不管是对某人的依赖，对信仰、对理想的依赖， 还是对某些经验的依赖，那些曾经带给你 大量兴奋刺激等等这些东西的经验， ——因此你依赖于这些东西—— 而这种依赖不可避免地会制造出错觉。 所以，我们能够观察 “我们是依赖的”这个事实吗？观察它。 可以吗？
16:35 So in the same way we are going to find out if there is such a thing as absolute truth. If you are interested in this, because this has been asked not only by some casual questioner but by monks who have given their life to this - you understand? By philosophers, by every religious person who is not institutionalised, deeply concerned with life, with reality and truth. You understand? So if you are really concerned about what is the truth, one has to go into it very, very deeply. 所以通过同样的方式，我们将要去发现 是不是存在绝对真理这回事。 如果你对此有兴趣， 因为这个问题不仅仅是某个听众偶然问起的， 而且那些为此奉献一生的僧侣也问过——你明白吗？ 哲学家们问过，每一个 还没有被制度化、深切关心生活、 关心现实和真理的宗教人士也问过。你明白吗？ 所以，如果你真的关心什么是真理的话， 我们就必须非常非常深入地去探究这个问题。
17:34 First of all one has to understand what is reality. Right? What is reality? That which you perceive, that which you touch, that which you taste - right? when you have pain and so on. So reality is the sensation and the reaction to that sensation, the response to the sensation as an idea - right? I wonder... And that idea created by thought, so thought has created reality. The marvellous architecture, the great cathedrals of the world, the temples, the mosques, and the idols that are put in them, the images, all created by thought. And we say, that is reality, because you can touch it, you can taste it, you can smell it. 首先，我们必须了解什么是现实。 不是吗？ 什么是现实？ 那个你感知到的东西，那个你触摸到的东西， 那个你品尝到的东西，不是吗？ 你的痛苦等等这些。 所以现实就是感官感觉 以及对于感官感觉的反应， 而那种对感官感觉的反应被抽象成了一个概念——对吗？ 我想知道……那种概念是由思想制造出来的， 所以思想制造出了现实。 那些不可思议的建筑， 这个世界最宏伟的大教堂，那些庙宇和清真寺， 以及放在里面的偶像 和图画，所有这些都是思想制造出来的。 而我们说，这就是现实，因为你可以触摸到它， 你可以品尝到它，闻到它。
19:18 Q: What about hallucinations? This can be because there is a disturbance in the physiological brain.

K: Yes, sir. The brain may be diseased, or affected, or wounded, or bruised and out of that you have illusions, hallucinations. 		问：那么错觉又是什么呢？ 错觉之所以会出现是因为 生理大脑中有了某种干扰。

克：是的，先生。 大脑或许得了病，被感染、受伤或者挫伤， 由此你的大脑就产生了幻想和错觉。
19:39 Q: I mean physiologically, if you have say a high fever Questions are to be answered, if you ask questions from the audience you interrupt the flow of the enquiry - so may I request, most politely that unless you write it down, please don't. I hope you don't mind my asking this. 问：我的意思是生理上，比如说你发了一次高烧的话

克：我是否可以……我希望……当然，我是否可以请求 我要回答很多问题， 而如果你在台下突然提问的话那么你就打断了 探询的流畅——所以，我是否可以很礼貌地提个请求， 那就是你可以把问题写下来，不然的话最好不要（中途提问）。 我希望你不介意我的这个要求。
20:19 Hallucinations, illusions, delusions take place when the brain is damaged, when there is an avoidance or an escape from 'what is'. All these words: illusion, hallucination, delusions, are all of that category. 当大脑受到损坏， 当我们回避或者逃避“现状”的时候， 那么幻想、幻觉和错觉就会产生。 所有这些词语：幻觉、幻想和错觉， ——都是属于这个范畴的。
20:50 So we are saying: all the things that thought has created - you understand? - the knowledge, the acquisition of knowledge through science, through mathematics and so on, is reality. But nature is not created by thought. Right? You are following this? That tree, the mountains, the rivers, the waters, the deer, the snake, is not created by thought, it is there. But out of the tree we make a chair, that's created by thought. Right? So there is: thought has created the actual world in which we live and nature - includes environment, you know, the whole... - that is not created by thought. Obviously. 所以我们要说的是：思想创造出来的所有事物 ——你明白了吗？—— 那些知识，经由科学、 经由数学而获得的知识等等，它们是现实。 但自然并不是由思想创造出来的。 对吗？你跟上这些了吗？ 那些树，那些山脉，那些小河，那些流水，那些小鹿， 那些蛇，它们并不是由思想所创造的，它们就在那儿。 但是我们用这棵树制造出了一把椅子， 这把椅子就是思想制造出来的。 对吗？ 所以：思想创造出了 这个我们生活的真实的世界， 而自然——包括周围的环境，你知道，这整个自然 它们并不是由思想所创造的，这是显而易见的。
22:14 Then we ask, is truth reality? You understand? You are following this? One perceives that thought has created the world in which we live but thought has not created the universe. But thought can enquire into the universe. The cosmology, astrophysicists, they are proceeding the enquiry with thought and they will come to certain conclusions, certain hypotheses, try to prove those hypotheses, always in the path of thought. I don't know if you are following all this. So thought is relative and therefore whatever it creates in whatever direction it moves, it must be relative, it must be limited. You are following all this? Please, this is not a lecture. (laughs) I am not a professor, thank God! We are just enquiring as two human beings wanting to find out what actual truth is, if there is such a thing as that. So the mind is no longer in illusion - that's the first thing - has no hypothesis, has no hallucinations, delusions. It doesn't want to grasp something or create an experience which it calls truth, which most people do. 然后我们就要问了，真理是现实吗？ 你明白了吗？你跟上这些了吗？ 我们观察到思想制造出了 这个我们所生活的世界， 而思想并没有创造出这个宇宙。 但思想却可以去探询这个宇宙， 宇宙学、天体物理学这些东西。 他们不断地用思想去探询， 然后他们会达成某种结论、某种假设， 接着他们试图去证明这些假设，但总是沿着思想的道路而行。 我不知道你们是否都跟上了所有这些。 所以思想是相对的， 因此无论它创造出了什么， 无论它走到哪里，它都必定是相对的， 它必然是局限的。 你跟上所有这些了吗？ 请注意，这并不是一场讲座。（笑） 我也不是一个教授，谢天谢地！ 我们只是作为两个想要找到答案的人一起在探询着 真理究竟是什么，是否存在真理这样一种东西。 这样头脑就不再会处于错觉之中了——这是首要的事情—— 那就是没有假设、没有错觉、没有幻觉。 它不想要去抓住什么东西 或者去创造出某种它叫做真理的经验， 而大多数人就是这么做的。
24:34 So the mind has now brought order into it. Right? Right, sirs? It has order, there is no confusion about illusions, about delusions, hallucinations, about experience. So the mind, the brain has lost its capacity to create illusions. Right? Then what is truth? That is, sir, what is the relationship between reality - you understand 'reality', what we explained, what is reality - and that which is not created by thought? Is there such a thing which is not the product of thought? You understand? Can we go on with this? 于是头脑此刻为自己带来了秩序。对吗？ 对吗，先生们？ 它拥有了秩序，对于种种错觉，对于幻觉、 错觉和经验，它不再混乱。 于是头脑、大脑就失去了它制造错觉的能力。 对吗？ 那么真理是什么呢？ 也就是，先生，现实 ——你所知道的“现实”，我们已经解释过了什么是现实—— 现实和那种并非思想所造之物的关系是什么呢？ 是否存在着这样一种并非思想产物的东西？ 你明白了吗？ 我们可以继续下去吗？
26:08 That is, is your mind, our minds now, sitting here in a rather depressed climate, under trees rather cool, are our minds free from every form of illusion? Right? Otherwise you cannot possibly find out the other. Which means is your mind completely free of any confusion? Therefore it is absolute order. You follow? Is it? You understand my question? How can a confused mind, a disorderly mind, a mind that is in a turmoil, ever find what truth is? It can invent, it can say, 'There is truth, or there is no truth' but a mind that has a sense of absolute order, a mind that is completely free from every form of illusion. Then it can proceed to find out. You understand? Otherwise you can't, obviously. 也就是，现在我们在这个相当阴郁的天气里，坐在 还算阴凉的树下， 你的头脑，我们的头脑，是否已经摆脱了所有形式的错觉？ 对吗？否则的话你就不可能发现另一种事物了。 也就是说，你的头脑是否彻底摆脱掉了所有的混乱？ 因此它就有了绝对的秩序。 你跟上了吗？对吗？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 一个困惑的头脑，一个失序的头脑， 一个处于混乱之中的头脑，它又如何能够发现什么是真理呢？ 它可以去发明，它可以说，“存在着真理，或者不存在着真理”， 然而一个有着绝对的秩序感的头脑， 一个彻底摆脱掉了所有形式的错觉的头脑， 这样的头脑才可以进一步去发现。你明白吗？ 否则的话你是无法去发现的，显然如此。
28:05 That is, sir, look, there is something rather interesting if you are interested in it. The astrophysicist scientists are using thought to find out, going out. You understand? They are doing this. They are investigating the world around them, matter, and going beyond the astrophysics, beyond, but always moving outward. Right? But if you start inward, the 'me' is also matter, Right? Thought is matter. So if you can go inwards, then you are moving from fact to fact. Right? I wonder if you see all this. Therefore that which is beyond matter you begin to discover. That's up to you. 也就是，先生，你看，如果你对此有兴趣的话， 那么这里面就有着一些非常有意思的东西。 那些天体物理学家和科学家利用思想去发现、 去研究外界。 你明白吗？他们在这么做。 他们在探究着周围的世界，这个物质世界， 然后试图去超越天体物理学，去超越这个范畴。 但他们总是在向外行动，对吗？ 然而，如果你从内在开始探究的话，那么那个“我”同样也是物质， 对吗？ 思想也是物质。 所以，如果你可以向内探究， 那么你就是在从事实走向事实。 对吗？我在想你是否看清了所有这些。 因此你会开始发现那些超越物质的事物。 这取决于你。
29:24 Sirs, this is a very serious affair, it is not just a morning, Thursday morning, an hour to discuss this. One has to give one's - you understand? You must give one's life to this, not away from life. You understand? Life is my struggle, my anxiety, my fears, my boredom my loneliness, my sorrow - you follow? My misfortunes, all the regrets - all that is my life. That I must understand and go through that - you follow? - not away from it. Then there is such thing as absolute truth if you have gone through it. 先生们，这是一件非常严肃的事情，它并不仅仅只是一个早上的事情， 在星期四的早上，花上一个小时去讨论这些。 你必须要付出你的——你明白吗？ 你必须用你的生命去探究它，而不是脱离生活。 你懂了吗？ 生活就是我的斗争，我的焦虑，我的恐惧，我的厌烦， 我的孤独，我的悲伤——你跟上了吗？ 我的不幸，所有的那些遗憾——这一切就是我的生活。 我必须了解这些，然后彻底搞清楚它们 ——你跟上了吗？——而不是脱离它们。 如果你已经彻底探究了这个问题的话， 那么就会有绝对真理这样一件事情了。
30:31 Second question: 'How can we take responsibility for what is happening in the world while continuing to function in our daily life? What is right action with regard to violence and when faced with violence?' 第二个问题：“当我们自己还是 在日常生活中一切照旧时， 我们又如何才能对这个世界上发生的一切负起责任来呢？ 对于暴力以及面对暴力的时候， 正确的行动应该是什么？”
30:48 'How can we take responsibility for what is happening in the world while continuing to function in our daily life. What is right action with regard to violence and when faced with violence?' How can we take responsibility for what is happening in the world while continuing to function in our daily life. First of all sir, is the world, that which is happening outside, is it different from what is happening inside? You understand my question? The world, what is happening in the world is violence, what is happening in the world is this extraordinary turmoil that is going on, crisis after crisis - right? Wars, division of nationalities, religious differences, racial, communal differences. One set of systematised concepts against another - you follow? This battle that is going on. Is that different from what is going on in us? Right? Please, do investigate. Is it different? Because we are also violent, we are also full of vanity, so terribly dishonest, put on different masks for different occasions. Right? So is it one movement - you understand - like the tide going out and the tide coming in? You follow? It's one movement. Not, how am I to be responsible to that. “当我们自己还是在日常生活中一切照旧时， 我们又如何才能对这个世界上发生的一切负起责任来呢？ 对于暴力以及面对暴力的时候， 正确的行动应该是什么？” 当我们自己还是在日常生活中一切照旧时， 我们又如何能对这个世界上发生的一切负起责任来呢？ 首先，先生，这个在你之外的世界， 和你内在的世界是不同的吗？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 这个世界，这个世界上正在发生着的是暴力， 这个世界正在发生着的是这种不断持续着的 极度的混乱，各种危机接踵而至——不是吗？ 战争，国家的划分，宗教的分裂， 种族、群体的区分。 一套体系化的理念对抗着另一套——你跟上了吗？ 这种战争一直持续着。 那么它和我们内在发生着的事情是不同的吗？ 对吗？ 请务必研究一下。它们是不同的吗？ 因为我们同样也是暴力的， 我们同样满心虚荣， 我们极度不诚实， 不同的场合戴着不同的面具。 不是吗？ 所以，那是不是同一种运动——你知道的—— 就像潮起潮落一般？ 你跟上了吗？那其实是同一种运动。 而不是我要如何对此负责的问题。
33:39 So if the world is me - right? - because we human beings have created that! That cannot possibly be changed unless we human beings change. That is the root of it, you understand sirs? We want to do something there, in the world. Better institutions, better governments better economics, etc., etc., etc But we never say, we have created that and unless we, I, you, change that cannot be changed. We won't take the responsibility for that but we'll take responsibility for that. You understand the difference? Do we meet each other in this? 所以如果这个世界就是我的话——对吗？—— 因为正是我们人类创造出了它！ 除非我们人类能够改变，否则世界就不可能改变。 这就是问题的根源所在，你明白了吗，先生们？ 我们想要在那里，在这个世界上做一些事情。 更好的体制，更好的政府， 更好的经济，等等等等。 但是我们从来不说，是我们制造出了这一切， 而除非我们，除非我和你改变，否则这个世界是不可能改变的。 我们不愿意为此负责， 但是我们终将要对此负责的。 你明白这其中的区别了吗？ 这点我们是否已经彼此理解了？
34:49 So, I am the world. Right? Right sir? I am the world. It is not an idea, it is not a belief it is not a concept, it is an actuality. After ten million years or whatever number of million years we have lived we are just the same. You follow? We haven't changed fundamentally. And so we have created such havoc in the world. So the fact is I am the world, not an idea but an actuality - do you see the difference?- as the idea and the actuality. The idea is, you have heard this - that you are the world - you make an abstraction of it into an idea, and discuss about the idea whether it is true, false, against it, for it and you've lost it. You understand? But the fact is you are, it is so! 所以我就是世界。对吗？对吗，先生？我就是世界。 这并不是一个理念，这并不是一种信仰， 这也不是一个概念，这是一个事实。 在生存了一千万年 或者不管几千万年以后， 我们却依旧是老样子。你跟上了吗？ 我们并没有从根本上改变。 因此我们在这个世界上制造了如此的混乱。 所以事实就是，我就是世界，这并不是一个理念而是一个事实—— 你看到这其中的区别了吗？——理念和事实的区别。 所谓理念就是，你听到了这种说法 ——说你就是世界——你把它抽象 成了一个理念，然后去讨论那个理念， 它究竟是对还是错，该去反对还是支持， 因此你就错过了它。你明白了吗？ 然而事实就是：你就是世界，就是如此！
36:18 So you are responsible for changing this. That means you are responsible completely how you live your daily life. Please, this is not preaching, or advocating nothing, we are investigating together. 所以你要为改变它而负责。 那意味着你要完全负责， 你是如何过你每天的生活的。 请注意，这并不是一场布道或者倡议，什么都不是， 我们是在一起探究。
36:56 So our responsibility is not to the chaos that is going on and try to modify it, change it, decorate it or join this group or that group, or that institution and so on but as a human being who is the world and that human being has to go through radical transformation otherwise you will have no good society. And most of us find it awfully difficult to change. Right? Even to give up smoking. You understand? You have got institutions that will help you not to smoke. You see how we depend on institutions. You follow sirs? So can we find out why we don't change. Why we see something to be wrong - wrong in quotes - and end it immediately? Is it that we feel that somebody else will bring order in the world and then we'll just slip into it? You understand? Is it that we are indolent, psychologically, lazy, ineffectual? You understand sir? How many years one spends to acquire a certain technique, to go through school, high school, college, university to become a doctor - ten years, more - and we won't spend a day in... You understand? So our responsibility is to bring about a radical change in ourselves, because we are the rest of humanity. 所以，我们的责任并不是针对那些发生着的混乱的， 然后试图去修正它、改变它、粉饰它， 或者加入这个团体、那个团体、那个机构等等， 而是作为人类的一份子，我就是这个世界， 这个人必须要经历一次彻底的转变， 否则我们就无法拥有一个美好的社会。 而我们大多数人都发现改变是相当困难的。不是吗？ 哪怕只是戒烟。你明白吗？ 你有一堆机构来帮助你戒烟。 你看我们是多么依赖组织啊。跟上了吗，先生们？ 所以我们能不能搞清楚为什么我们不改变？ 为什么我们看到了一些事情是“错误”的 ——这里的错误是加引号的——却不立即停止它呢？ 是不是因为我们觉得其他人 将会给这个世界带来秩序而我们只需要届时加入即可？ 你明白了吗？ 是不是因为我们心理上倦怠、 懒惰和无能？你明白吗，先生？ 我们可以花那么多年的时间去掌握一种技能， 去上学，高中、学院、大学， 成为一名博士——十年，或许更久—— 但是我们却从未花一天的时间去……你明白吗？ 因此我们的责任是带来一场内心根本的改变， 因为我们就是其他所有的人类。
39:48 And the next question is: 'What is right action with regard to violence and when faced with violence?' What is right action with regard to violence. What is violence? Go on sir, what is violence? Anger? Hatred? I am just going into it, please. Anger, hatred, conformity, imitation, obedience? Or the denial of all that, the opposite of all that? You understand my question? And violence is part of our life, inherited probably from the animal and so on. And is it possible to be free of it? Not relatively, but completely free of it. You understand what it means? To be free of anger which means not only to be free of anger but to have no anger in the mind. You understand? I wonder if you meet all this! 下一个问题是： “对于暴力以及面对暴力的时候， 正确的行动应该是什么？” 对于暴力，正确的行动是什么？ 什么是暴力？ 继续，先生，什么是暴力？ 愤怒？ 仇恨？ 请注意，我只是在探究。愤怒、仇恨、遵从、 模仿、顺从？ 还是否定所有这些，是所有这些东西的反面？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 而暴力是我们生命的一部分， 它也许是从动物等等身上遗传下来的。 那么我们有可能摆脱掉它吗？ 不是相对地摆脱，而是彻底地摆脱掉它。 你知道那意味着什么吗？ 摆脱愤怒就意味着 不仅仅只是脱离愤怒， 还意味着心中不再有愤怒。你明白吗？ 我在想你是否理解了所有这些！
41:58 Say for instance, conformity. Not outward conformity - you understand? - but the sense of conformity through comparison. You follow what I mean? We are always comparing, aren't we? Psychologically: 'I was, I will be' or 'I am', which is comparative. You are following all this, sirs? So I am asking, this mind which is always comparing, judging, aggressive, and its aggressiveness is to compare! Right? I don't think you see this. So can the mind be free absolutely of all violence? If it is, then suppose it meets violence, what is its response? First of all if the mind is free from imitation, conformity, comparison and so on, from that there is right action. Right? I don't know if you follow that. And if one meets violence, face to face, what is the action that takes place? Can you judge what you are going to do when you meet it? You follow my question? I wonder if you do. 就拿遵从来举个例子吧。 不是那种外在的遵从——你明白吗？—— 而是那种经由比较而来的遵从感。 你明白我的意思了吗？ 我们总是在比较着，不是吗？ 在心理上比较着：“我以前如何，我将会如何”或者“我现在如何”，这些都是比较性的。 你跟上所有这些了吗，先生们？ 所以我问的是： 这个总是在比较和判断，具有侵略性的头脑， 它侵略性的表现就是比较！ 对吗？我认为你没有明白这点。 那么头脑可以彻底地摆脱掉所有的暴力吗？ 如果可以的话，那么假如它遇见了暴力，那时它的反应会是什么？ 首先，如果头脑摆脱了模仿、遵从、 比较等等这些东西的话， 那么它就会有正确的行动。对吗？ 我不知道你是否明白了这些。 如果我们面对暴力，与它面对面的话， 那么我们会有什么样的行动？ 当你面对它的时候，你会对你怎么行动进行评判吗？ 你明白我的问题了吗？我不知道你是不是明白了。
44:18 Look sir - I don't want to go too deeply into this. The brain, as I am saying - please, I am not an expert on brain, I have not studied neurology and all the rest of it but you can watch it in yourself if you are sensitive, alert - the brain when it faces violence undergoes a chemical change because it reacts much quicker than the blow. I don't know if you are following all this. Right? And it has the capacity to heal itself. I won't go further into it. 你看先生——我并不想太过深入这点。 大脑，就如我所说的—— 请注意，我并不是一个大脑专家， 我并没有学过神经学等等所有这些东西， 但是如果你敏感和警觉的话，你可以在你的内心观察一下， 当大脑面对暴力的时候， 它会经历一种化学变化， 因为大脑的反应会比暴力的打击更快速。 我不知道你是否跟上了所有这些。 对吗？ 而且它拥有自我康复的能力。 我不再深入讲下去了。
45:19 So the brain knows what is violence, can react to that violence but for the brain itself to be conscious, conscious of the freedom of violence. You understand? Am I explaining anything, or am I clear as mud? Probably clear as mud! 所以大脑知道什么是暴力， 并且可以对那种暴力作出反应， 但我们要的是让头脑自身有所意识， 意识到那种脱离暴力的自由。你懂了吗？ 我是否把一切都解释清楚了，还是解释的模糊不清？ 很可能解释的模糊不清！
45:56 Sir, let's make it very simple. When you know somebody is angry, your whole body reacts. The chemical response, all of that, takes place and there is immediate response, you may not hit back but by the very presence of anger or hatred there is an action. Right? Now, in the presence of violence, not to have this response. I wonder if you understand! Right? Am I explaining it? Try it some time. I hope you never face violence but I am sure you will face anger. And in the presence of a person who is angry see what takes place, be aware of it and not react. You follow? That is, the moment you are aware of the other person's anger and you do not yourself respond there is quite a different response. I wonder if you understand this. Don't call it love and all that kind of stuff. This response, which is our instinct: to respond to hate by hate, to anger by anger, but in the presence of anger there is this - you follow? - the welling up which creates in the system nervous reactions and so on, chemically, but to quieten all this in the presence of anger and then there is a different action taking place when you are confronted with violence. Have I made this clear? Or is it still muddy? Right, sir? No? Is it clear? - at least verbally. 先生，我们尽量简单地来说一下吧。 当你知道某人很愤怒时，你的整个身体都会作出反应。 那种化学上的反应，所有那些化学反应都会产生， 你会有立即的回应，你或许不会回击他， 但是伴随着那种愤怒或者仇恨的出现， 你就会有某种行动。不是吗？ 然而现在，在暴力出现的时候，不要有这种反应。 我不知道你是否明白了！对吗？ 我解释清楚了吗？有时间去尝试一下。 我希望你永远不会遭遇暴力， 但是我确信你将会遇到愤怒的。 在面对一个愤怒不堪的人时， 去觉察它而不要作出任何反应，看看会发生什么。你跟上了吗？ 也就是，当你觉察到了他人的愤怒时， 你自己不去反应， 那时你就会有一种完全不同的回应了。 我不知道你是否明白了这点。 不要把它称为爱和等等所有这类东西。 这时我们本能的反应是：以恨还恨， 以怒制怒， 在那种愤怒的出现之中有着——你跟上了吗？—— 有着神经系统所制造出来的汹涌冲动， 那些神经的反应等等，这些是化学上的， 然而如果在愤怒出现的时候我们去止息所有这一切， 那么当你面对暴力的时候 就会有一种完全不同的行动产生了。 我说清楚了吗？ 还是仍旧没有说清楚？ 对吗，先生？ 不对？这点清楚了吗？——至少在字面上清楚了。
48:42 Third question: 'The hope that tomorrow will solve our problems prevents our seeing the absolute urgency of change. How does one deal with this?' 第三个问题：“寄希望于明天我们的问题将会解决， 阻碍了我们看到改变极度的迫切性。 那么我们该怎么来处理这个问题呢？”
48:56 'The hope that tomorrow will solve our problems prevents our seeing the absolute urgency of change. How does one deal with this?' “寄希望于明天我们的问题将会解决 阻碍了我们看到改变极度的迫切性。 那么我们该怎么来处理这个问题呢？”
49:14 Is that the reason that we don't change? That tomorrow - the hope of it - that the future, tomorrow, next year and so on, the future, because our minds are conditioned to the future, the questioner asks, is that the reason why we don't change. Now if you go into... We are going into this question. 这就是我们不改变的原因吗？ 那个明天——寄希望于明天——也就是未来， 明天、明年等等，这些都是未来， 因为我们的头脑受限于未来， 这个提问者说，这是否就是我们不改变的原因呢？ 那么如果你深入下去……我们会来探讨这个问题的。
49:56 What do you mean by the future? What is future? You understand my question? If one is desperately ill, tomorrow has meaning. You understand? Because I may be healed by tomorrow. And so we must ask: what is this sense of future? What is future? You understand my question? What is future? Because we know the past - you understand? - and because we live in the past, which is a fact, the opposite movement, that is the past going through the present - right? - modifying itself, moves to that which we call the future. Right? Are you following this, sir? First of all do we know, are we aware that we live in the past? Right? We live in the past, don't we? And that past is always modifying itself, adjusting itself, expanding itself, contracting but it is still the past. Past experience, past knowledge, past understanding, past delight, the pleasure which has become the past, and so on, so on. So the future modified is the past. Right? Right? I said the future is the modification of the past. Right? So the future is the past, modified. I wonder if you see this. 你所说的未来是什么意思？未来是什么？ 你明白我的问题了吗？ 如果我身患绝症，那么明天是有意义的。 你明白了吗？ 因为也许明天我的病将会被治好。 因此我们必须要问：这种未来感是什么？ 什么是未来？你明白我的问题了吗？ 什么是未来？ 因为我们知道过去——你明白吗？—— 因为我们是活在过去之中的，这是一个事实； 而相反的运动则是，过去 通过现在——对吗？——修正了一下它自己， 然后走向那个我们所谓的未来。 对吗？你跟上这些了吗，先生？ 首先，我们是否知道，是否意识到了自己是活在过去之中的？ 对吗？我们是活在过去之中的，不是吗？ 那个过去总是在修正着它自己， 调整着它自己，扩张着、收缩着它自己， 但它仍旧是过去。 过去的经验，过去的知识，过去的了解，过去的快乐， 那些已经成为了过去的快感等等等等。 所以那种修正过的未来其实就是过去。对吗？ 不是吗？ 我说未来就是修正了的过去。 对吗？ 所以未来就是过去，只不过稍加修正了而已。 我在想你是否明白了这点。
52:52 So my hope of the future is still the past moving to what I consider the future. Right? Right, sir? I must talk to someone! (Laughs) So the mind has never moved out of the past. That's all I want to get at. Right? The future is still the past, so the mind is always acting, living, thinking in the past. And so can the past end, not the seeing of absolute necessity of change? Do you understand my question? 因此我对未来的希望仍然是那个过去， 走向了我所认为的未来。 对吗？ 对吗，先生？ 看来我得找个人说说了！（笑） 因此头脑从未脱离过去。 这就是我想要表达的所有内容。不是吗？ 未来仍旧是过去， 所以头脑总是在过去中行动、生活和思考。 那么，过去能够结束吗？ 而不是努力去看到改变的绝对必要性。 你明白我的问题了吗？
54:09 What is the past? Let's look at that for a while. What is the past? My racial inheritance, my conditioning as this or that, as a Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Catholic, American and so on. The past is the education I have received, the past is the experiences which I have had, the hurts, the delights, the remembrances and so on. That is the past. Right sir? That is my consciousness, that's our consciousness, it is not my consciousness, it is our consciousness. So can that consciousness with all its content which is my belief, my dogmas, my hopes, my fears, my longings, my illusions and so on, all that end? Sir, you don't know all this. 什么是过去？ 让我们稍微来看一看。什么是过去？ 我种族的遗传，我所受的这个或那个身份的制约， 作为印度教徒、佛教徒、基督教徒、天主教徒、美国人等等。 过去就是我所接受过的教育， 过去就是我曾经有过的经历， 那些伤害，那些喜悦，那些记忆等等。 它们就是过去。 对吗，先生？ 这是我的意识，这是我们的意识， 它并不是我一个人的意识，它是我们大家的意识。 所以那种意识及其所有的内容， 也就是我的信仰、我的教条、我的希望、我的恐惧、 我的渴望、我的错觉等等这些，所有这些能够结束吗？ 先生，你并不明白这些。
55:37 Now, look. Can you end this morning completely your dependence on another? Because that is part of your consciousness. Right? Because the moment you end, something new begins. Obviously. But we never end anything completely. The non-ending is the hope. Right? Are you following this, sir? So can you end and see the consequences of dependence psychologically - I don't mean outwardly, I depend on the postman, telephone, this, that and the other - but psychologically, inwardly, see what it means to depend and immediate action taking place - the ending of it. 那么，请看一下。 你可以在今天早上就彻底结束你对他人的依赖吗？ 因为那也是你意识的一部分。对吗？ 因为当你结束了某些东西的时候，新的东西就开始了。 这是显而易见的。 但是我们从未彻底地结束过任何东西。 不结束意味着希望。不是吗？ 你跟上这些了吗，先生？ 所以你是否能够结束依赖， 并且看清心理上依赖的后果 ——我指的并不是外在的那些依赖： 我依赖邮递员，依赖电话，依赖这个、那个还有别的—— 而是那种心理上的、内在的依赖，去看一下依赖意味着什么， 然后立即的行动就会产生——那就是依赖的结束。
57:15 Now, the point is... Is the content of our consciousness to be done bit by bit? You understand? That is, get rid of anger, get rid of jealousy - you follow? - bit by bit by bit. That would take too long, wouldn't it? Or can the whole thing be done instantly, immediately? You understand my question, sirs? That is, taking the content of our consciousness one by one and ending them will take all one's life or perhaps many days, many years. But is it possible to see the whole content and end it? You understand my question? To see the whole content, the whole of it, which is fairly simple - if you do it. But our minds are so conditioned that we allow time as a factor to change. 现在，我们的重点是 我们意识的内容是 一点一点地去解决的吗？你明白吗？ 也就是，去摆脱愤怒，摆脱嫉妒——你跟上了吗？—— 一点一点地去摆脱。 那将会花费很长时间，不是吗？ 还是说所有这些东西可以立即、瞬间加以解决？ 你明白我的问题吗，先生们？ 也就是，一个一个地去分析我们意识的内容， 然后去结束它们，这将会花费掉我们一生的时间， 或者很多天、很多年。 然而，我们是否有可能看清它的全部内容并结束它呢？ 你明白我的问题了吗？ 看清它的全部内容，看清它的一切， 这相当简单——如果你去做一下的话。 但是我们的头脑是如此受限，以致于 我们允许时间作为一个带来改变的因素。
59:03 I hope we are answering these questions. 我希望我们已经回答了这些问题。
59:13 Fourth question: 'Are there any psychological needs which we human beings are responsible for meeting in our daily relationship with others? Is there such a thing as true psychological need?' 第四个问题：“在我们与他人的日常关系中， 有没有任何我们要负责 去满足的心理需求？ 有没有真正的心理需求这么一回事？”
59:32 That's the real question: is there such a thing as a true psychological need? You have answered the question yourself, haven't you? Need I answer it? Need I answer the question? Oh, I do need to answer it? No, thank God! 这才是真正的问题：有没有 真正的心理需求这回事？ 你已经回答了这个问题，你自己已经回答了，不是吗？ 还需要我来回答吗？ 我还需要来回答这个问题吗？噢，我真的需要来回答它吗？ 不用了，感谢上帝！
1:00:06 Fifth question: 'What does it mean to see the totality of something? Is it ever possible to perceive the totality of something which is moving?' 第五个问题：“看到某样事物的整体是什么意思？ 我们是否有可能洞察到 处于运动中的某个事物的整体？”
1:00:17 You understand the question? 'What does it mean to see the totality of something? Is it ever possible to perceive the totality of something which is moving?' Shall we do it together? 你明白这个问题吗？ “看到某样事物的整体是什么意思？” 我们是否有可能洞察到 处于运动中的某个事物的整体？” 我们可以一起来解答这个问题吗？
1:00:43 As we said in the previous question, in going into it, to perceive the totality of our consciousness. Right? That consciousness is centred as the 'me', the self, the egotistic activity, self-centred movement which is the totality of our consciousness. Right? Now can we see that completely? Of course you can. Right? Is that difficult or is it... That is, one's consciousness is made up of all its content. Right? That's clear. That is, my jealousy, my nationality, my beliefs, my experiences and so on, so on, so on, that is the content of this thing called consciousness. The core of that is me, the self. Right? To see this thing entirely now. Right? Right, sir? Can you do it? Of course you can. Which means giving complete attention to it. Right? Again, we rarely give complete attention to anything. Now we are asking each other: give complete attention to this content which is at the very core of the self. The self, the 'me' is the essence of that. And give attention to it, and you see the whole, don't you? 就如我们在之前的问题中所说的，在深入它的过程中， 去观察我们意识的全部内容。 对吗？ 那种意识是以“我”为中心的， 自我，自我主义的活动，自我中心的运动， 就是我们意识的全部内容。 对吗？ 那么，我们能够完整地看到它吗？ 当然可以。 对吗？这是不是很难，还是说 也就是说，我们的意识是由其所有的内容组成的。 对吗？ 这点很清楚。 也就是，我的嫉妒、我的国家主义、我的信仰、 我的经验等等等等， 这些就是这个叫做意识的东西的内容。 它的核心就是我，那个自我。对吗？ 而我们现在要去完整地看到这个东西。 对吗？ 对吗，先生？ 你能这么做吗？你当然可以。 那意味着对它全神贯注。 不是吗？ 同样的，我们很少能够全神贯注于某样事物。 而现在我们在要求彼此： 那就是要全神贯注于它的内容， 那些内容就是自我的核心所在。 那个自我，那个“我”就是意识的本质。 当你全神贯注于它，那么你就可以看到整体了，不是吗？
1:03:15 Now the questioner says also, - it is interesting - which is is it ever possible to perceive the totality of something which is moving? Is the self moving? Is the content of your consciousness moving? It is moving within the limits of itself. Right, sir? I wonder... are you following all this? Am I talking to myself? 而现在这个提问者也在问——这个问题挺有趣的——也就是 “我们是否有可能洞察到 处于运动中的某个事物的整体？” 自我是运动着的吗？ 你意识的内容是运动着的吗？ 它是在其自身局限的范围内运动的。对吗，先生？ 我想知道……你们都跟上所有这些了吗？ 我是在自言自语吗？
1:04:00 Sir, look, what is moving in consciousness? Attachment, the fear of not being attached, the fear of what might happen if I am not attached? Which is what? Moving within its own radius, - right? - within its own limited area. That you can observe. So you can observe that which is limited. So, I want to go into this a little bit, don't be shocked. Is our consciousness, with its content, living? You understand my question? Are my ideas living? Your belief living? So what is living? Are you following this? One has an experience, pleasant, unpleasant, noble, ignoble, so-called enlightenment - you cannot have experience of truth, of enlightenment, that's irrelevant. So is the experience that you have had, living? Or the remembrance of that experience is living? Right? The remembrance, not the fact. The fact has gone. But the movement of remembrance is what is called living. You follow? Come on, sirs, move! So the experience, which is gone, of course, that is remembered, that remembrance is called living. Right? That you can watch, but not that which is gone. I wonder if you see this. 先生，你看，在意识中运动着的是什么东西？ 依赖，对于无法依赖的恐惧， 害怕如果我不依赖的话将会发生什么？ 而这又是什么呢？它在其自身的半径范围内运动着， ——对吗？——在其自身有限的区域内活动。 这点你可以去观察一下。 所以你可以去观察一下这个局限的东西。 因此，我想要稍微深入一下这点，请不要感到震惊。 我们的意识及其内容，是活着的吗？ 你明白我的问题了吗？ 我的理念是活着的吗？ 你的信仰是活着的吗？ 那么什么是活着的呢？ 你跟上这些了吗？ 我们有了某种经验，快乐的、不快的，高尚的、卑微的， 所谓觉悟的经验——你是无法拥有那种真理和觉悟的经验的， 它们和经验毫不相干。 因此那些你曾经有过的经验，它们是活着的吗？ 还是说存活的只是对那个经验的回忆？ 对吗？那是回忆，不是事实。 事实已经消失了。 而那种回忆的运动就是我们所说的活着的东西。 你跟上了吗？来吧，先生们，动起来！ 所以那种毫无疑问已经消逝了的经验， 它被回忆起来，而那种回忆被称为是活着的。 对吗？这点你是可以去观察的，而不是观察那个已经消逝了的事物。 我在想你是否明白了这点。
1:06:45 So what we call living is that which has happened and gone. See sir, what you are doing? That which has gone and dead, our minds are so dead, and the remembrance of all that is called living. That is the tragedy of our life. I remember the friends we have had, they are gone, the brothers, the sisters, the wives that are dead, the mothers, I remember. The remembrance is identified with the photograph and the constant looking at it, remembering it, is the living. You understand, sir? And that's what we call living. 所以我们叫做活着的事物是那个已经发生过并且已经消逝了的东西。 看看先生，你在做什么？ 那个东西已经消失并且死去了， 我们的头脑是如此死气沉沉， 而对那一切的回忆 被称为活着。 这就是我们生命的悲剧。 我想起了我们有过的那些朋友，他们已经离去了。 我们的兄弟、姐妹、妻子、 母亲，他们都去世了，而我记得他们。 那种记忆与照片认同起来， 我不断地看着那些照片，想起了他们，这就是生活。 你明白了吗，先生？ 这就是我们叫做生活的事情。
1:08:11 What time is it, sir?

Q: Twenty five to one. 		现在几点了，先生？问：差25分钟1点.
1:08:18 K: I think we better stop. May I stop? I was told I must stop at exactly an hour because of the tape! (Laughter) 克：我想我们该结束了。 我可以结束吗？ 有人告诉我说讲话必须恰好在一小时内结束， 因为录像带就这么长！（笑声）
1:08:42 This is a rather interesting question. 这真的是一个相当有趣的问题。
1:08:44 Sixth question: 'Is there a state that has no opposite and may we know how to commune with it?' 第六个问题：“是否存在着一种没有对立面的状态， 我们能知道如何与它接触吗？”
1:08:57 'Is there a state that has no opposite and may we know how to communicate with it?' “是否存在着一种没有对立面的状态， 我们能知道如何与它接触吗？”
1:09:10 Let's be very simple about this. Is there opposite, except man, woman, darkness, light, tall, short, fair hair, dark hair, the tree - differences - night and day. And is there an opposite to goodness? If it has an opposite it is not good. Right? I wonder if you see that. Goodness, if it has an opposite then that goodness must be born out of the opposite. Do you follow this? Am I too quick? All right, let me go slowly. 让我们非常简单地来说一下这个问题。 除了男人女人、黑暗光明、 高大矮小、金发黑发、 白天黑夜和树木的不同之外，是否还存在着对立面。 “好”有对立面吗？ 如果它有一个对立面的话，那么它就不是“好”了。 对吗？我在想你是否看到了这点。 “好”，如果它有了一个对立面， 那么那个“好”就必然是源自于它的对立面的。 你跟上这些了吗？ 我是不是太快了？ 好吧，我慢一点。
1:10:13 You see, I don't think about all this, it is forced out of me. So. Goodness. What is an opposite? We have cultivated opposites - haven't we? - good, bad. And we say, 'goodness' is the opposite of 'bad' bad in quotes, both in quotes. Now if they have a relationship with each other or outcome of each other then this is not good, good is still rooted in the bad. Are you following all this? So is there opposite at all? You understand? I am violent, there is violence. Thought has created non-violence, which is non-fact, because the ending of violence is quite a different state from non-violence. Right? So mind has created the opposite in order either to escape from action - right? - or in order to get over violence or suppress violence. All this activity is part of violence. Are you meeting all this? 你看，我完全没有思考这些问题，这些话是我情不自禁说出来的，所以 “好”。 对立面是什么呢？ 我们已经培育起了对立面——不是吗？——“好”与“坏”。 然后我们说，“好”是“坏”的对立面， 这里的“坏”是加引号的，这两个都是加引号的。 那么，如果它们彼此之间有着某种关系， 或者是彼此的产物的话， 那么它就不是'好'了，那个“好”仍旧是植根于“坏”之中的。 你跟上所有这些了吗？ 所以真的存在对立面吗？ 你明白了吗？ 我是暴力的，存在着暴力。 思想创造出了非暴力，但这并不是一个事实， 因为暴力的终结 和非暴力是完全不同的两种状态。 对吗？所以头脑已经创造出了对立面， 以此来回避行动 ——对吗？——或者以期克服暴力、 压制暴力。 然而所有这些活动都是暴力的一部分。 你理解所有这些了吗？
1:12:16 So if you are only concerned with the fact, facts have no opposites. Right? I wonder if you see that. I am concerned, say for instance if I hate - I hope I don't - suppose I hate. My mind, my thought, society will say, 'Don't hate'. Right? Which is the opposite. The opposite is born out of its own opposite. Right? Right - do you follow that? So there is only hate, not its opposite. If I observe that fact and all the responses to that fact, why should I have an opposite? You understand what I'm saying? The opposite has been created by thought and therefore there is constant struggle between hate and non-hate: 'How am I to get over my hate?' But if only that fact remains and not its opposite you have the energy to look at it. Right? You have the energy to do... No, not do anything about it, the very fact is dissolved when you observe it. Have you got it? 所以，如果你只关心事实的话， 那么事实是没有对立面的。对吗？ 我在想你是否看到了这点。 就我而言，举个例子来说， 如果我有仇恨——我希望我没有——假设我有仇恨。 那么我的头脑，我的思想和这个社会就会说，“不要去恨”。 对吗？这就是对立面。 对立面是产生于其自身的反面的。 不是吗？ 对吧——你明白这点了吗？ 所以存在的只有仇恨，而没有它的对立面。 如果我观察了那个事实以及对于那个事实的所有反应的话， 那么为什么我还要去制造一个对立面呢？ 你明白我所说的意思了吗？ 对立面是由思想制造出来的， 因此在仇恨和不仇恨之间 有着持续不断的斗争冲突：“我要如何去克服我的仇恨？” 然而，如果存在的只有那个事实而没有它的对立面的话， 那么你就有能量去观察它了。 对吗？ 你就有能量去行动了……不，不要对它采取任何行动， 当你观察它的时候，你就已经化解了那个事实本身。 你明白了吗？
1:14:16 That's enough sir. 到此为止了，先生。