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OJ80T5 - 我们在心理上是一个整体的运动
第五次公开讲话
美国，加州，欧亥
1980年5月17日



0:37 May we go on with what we were talking about last Saturday and Sunday? If I may point out, this is not an entertainment, to be amused, or intellectually, or emotionally stimulated. Please don't take notes because you can't pay attention to both. I hope you don't mind. 我们可以接着上星期六和星期天的内容 继续讨论吗？ 我想指出的是，这不是一种消遣、 一场娱乐，也不是要从智力上或感情上给你刺激。 请不要记笔记，因为你不可能同时两者兼顾。 希望你们不介意我这样说。
1:35 Human beings right throughout the world have been tyrannised over by institutions, organisations, by priests, by gurus, by every form of authoritarian aggressive assertions, either by the philosophers or by the theologians or by one's own idiosyncrasy, greed and anxiety. And we have been saying during these talks - and tomorrow will be the last one and the questions and answers - and it becomes more and more imperative that human beings, whether they live in far away Asia or in the Western world, or here, should bring about in themselves a radical transformation, a mutation. And that is necessary because society, as it is organised, upheld, has become extraordinary complex, corrupt, immoral and such a society is very destructive, leading to wars, oppression, every form of dishonest action. And to bring about a change there, in the society, it is necessary that human beings change themselves. And most of us are unwilling to do that. Most of us rely either on an institution, organisation to change society, or some leader and these leaders generally become tyrannical. We look to others to bring about the necessary change in society. And we, human beings, are responsible for it. We have created it, we have put it together. We, those in America, Europe, India or wherever they live, we have made this society. 全世界的人类， 都受到各种机构和组织、 受到牧师们、古鲁们的主宰， 被各种形式的权威的、独断的主张所控制， 这些主张要么来自哲学家们、神学家们， 要么来自于我们自己的癖性、贪婪和焦虑。 并且在这些谈话中我们说过 ——明天将是最后一次讲话了， 后面还有几次问答—— 这个事情变得越来越紧迫，即人类 无论他们是生活在遥远的亚洲 还是生活在西方世界，或者生活在这里， 都应该在他们内心进行一次彻底的转变， 一次突变。 这是必要的，因为社会，依照它组织、建立的方式， 已经变得极其复杂、腐败和不道德， 而这样的社会非常具有破坏性，它导致了战争、压迫 以及各种不诚实的行为。 因此，为了给社会带来改变， 人类改变自身是非常必要的。 而我们大部分人都不愿意那样做。 我们多数人依赖某个机构、组织， 或者依靠某些领袖来改变社会， 而这些领袖通常变得专横残暴。 我们指望着别人给社会带来必要的改变。 然而我们，整个人类，应该对此负责。 我们造就了社会，我们建立了它。 我们，那些在美洲、欧洲、印度的人，或者无论什么地方的人， 我们造就了这个社会。
5:29 And we seem to not realise the central fact that we, each one of us, are responsible for what is going on in the world. The terror, violence, wars, and all the rest of it. And to bring about that change in ourselves we have to look at ourselves. We have to see exactly what we are and not depend on anyone, including the speaker. We have all been led by others and that is one of the great calamities so we become utterly irresponsible: irresponsible for our own acts, for our own behaviour, for our own vulgarity, and so on. 而我们似乎没有意识到这个核心事实， 即我们，我们每一个人， 对世界上正在发生的所有事情都负有责任。 恐怖袭击、暴力活动、战争，以及诸如此类的一切。 而要带来我们自身的改变， 我们就必须检视我们自己。 我们必须准确地看清楚我们是什么样子 而不依赖任何人，包括讲话者在内。 我们以往老是被他人引导， 而那是最大的不幸之一， 我们因此而变得完全不负责任： 对我们自己的行动， 对我们自己的作为，对我们自己的粗野等等不负责任。
7:15 Many of us, and most people - at least thoughtful people - are aware that they are conditioned by society, by education, by all the various pressures and incidents, and accidents and ideas; we are conditioned by religious beliefs by philosophers with their theories, whether it be communism or other kinds of ideas spun out by philosophers. The word 'philosophy' means actually the love of life love of truth. Not love of ideas. Not love of theological concepts. But the actual understanding of life and the loving that takes place when one understands the deep meaning of living. That is the real meaning of a philosopher. 我们中很多人，以及大多数人——至少是那些爱思考的人们—— 都很清楚他们受到了 社会、教育、各种压力、 事件、事故和观念的制约；我们 被宗教信仰所制约， 被哲学家以及他们的理论所制约， 不管这理论是共产主义， 还是哲学家们编造出的其他类型的观念。 实际上，“哲学”这个词，其含义是指对生活的热爱， 对真理的热爱，而不是热爱观念， 也不是热爱神学的概念。而是对生活和爱的 真正理解，这种爱产生于 一个人理解了活着的深层涵义之时。 这才是一个哲学家的真正涵义。
8:48 And we have been conditioned by our own beliefs and the beliefs imposed on us and the desire to be certain, the desire to have no fear, all that has brought about our conditioning, the American, the Russian, the Hindu, the Muslim, the Arab, the Jew and so on. We are conditioned. And as most of us are aware that we are conditioned we say, 'We cannot possibly change it, it is impossible for the mind, for the brain, to uncondition itself, so put up with it, modify it and carry on'. If you observe yourself, that's what we are doing. Please, I would like - if the speaker may point out that we are not doing any kind of propaganda. We are not instituting one belief against another belief, one dependence against another dependence. There is nothing to prove because we are, both of us, thinking over together. All of us, if you are serious here, are giving our attention to this fact: that we are conditioned and, out of this conditioning, we are creating more and more havoc in the world, more and more misery, confusion. And we are asking, talking over together, thinking together, whether it is possible that this conditioning can be totally freed, eradicated, broken down, changed, mutated and so on. So we are thinking over together. You are not - if I may point out - not listening to the speaker and agreeing or disagreeing. There is nothing to disagree, or agree. We are thinking together and seeing the necessity of bringing about a radical change in society, and that change can only be brought about completely, wholly, when we, human beings, transform ourselves. That's a fact, not a concept. 而我们都被我们自己的信仰 以及别人强加于我们的信仰， 还有对确定性的渴望、对摆脱恐惧的渴望所制约， 所有这些都带给我们制约， 不管是美国人、俄国人、印度教徒、穆斯林， 还是阿拉伯人、犹太人等等。 我们都受到了制约。 而当我们多数人认识到我们受到了制约， 我们会说，“我们不可能改变它， 我们的心灵和大脑不可能 摆脱制约， 因此容忍它、调整它，然后就这样继续下去吧。” 如果你观察自己，会发现这就是我们正在做的。 请注意，我想指出的是——讲话者想指出的是， 我们并非在进行任何宣传。 我们不是要创立一种信仰去反对另一种信仰， 建立一种依赖去针对另一种依赖。 没有任何东西需要去证明， 因为我们双方是一起在思考 。 我们所有人，如果你来这里是认真的， 都要注意这个事实： 我们受到了制约，并且由于这种制约， 我们正在世界上制造出越来越多的混乱， 越来越多的痛苦和困惑。 因此我们要问，一起探讨，一起思考， 我们遭受的这些制约是否可能 被完全解除、被连根拔掉、 被打破、改变、得到突变等等。 因此我们要一起思考。 请允许我指出，你不是 只听这个讲话者说，然后表示同意或者不同意。 这儿没有什么要反对或者赞同的。 我们要一起思考，并看到 给这个社会带来彻底改变的必要性。 而只有当我们人类转变我们自己的时候， 才能带来彻底的、完全的改变。 这是一个事实，不是一个概念。
12:36 A concept is merely a conclusion, opposing one opinion against another opinion, one belief against another belief and wrangling, or quarrelling about those concepts and ideas and ideals. Here we are merely investigating, looking, observing our conditioning. 概念仅仅是一个结论， 用一种意见反对另一种意见， 用一种信仰反对另一种信仰， 为这些概念、观念和理想 争论或争吵。 在这里我们仅仅是在探究、观察、检视 我们的制约。
13:16 Our consciousness is made up of its content. Which again is a fact. Our anxieties, our beliefs, our ideals, by our experiences, the content, the suffering, the pain, the remembrances of things that are past, all that, the doubt, the faith, the uncertainty, the confusion, all that makes our consciousness. Please, as we are talking, look, observe, if we will, our own consciousness: the beauty of the trees, the mountains, the lovely skies - if there is no smog - all that is part of our consciousness. The hatred, the disappointments, the success, the travail that one goes through life, all that makes up our consciousness. Your belief in God, or disbelief in God, your acceptance of a guru or the non-acceptance of a guru, and so on, all that is the content that makes our consciousness. You can expand that consciousness, limit it, but it is still part of that consciousness, its content. 我们的意识是由它的内容组成的， 这也是一个事实。 我们的焦虑、信念、理想，通过我们的经验， 那些内容，苦难、痛苦， 对过去事情的记忆， 所有这些，怀疑、信念， 不确定性、困惑， 所有这些构成了我们的意识。 当我们探讨的时候，如果我们愿意， 请观察、检视我们的意识： 包括美丽的树林、山峰，令人愉悦的天空 ——如果没有烟雾的话——所有这一切，都是我们意识的一部分。 那些怨恨、失意、成功， 一个人生活中的艰辛， 所有这一切，都构成了我们的意识。 你信仰上帝，或者不信上帝， 你接受一个古鲁 或者不接受古鲁，等等， 所有这些内容，都构成了我们的意识。 你可以扩展那个意识，也可以限制它， 但它仍然是意识的一部分，是意识的内容。
15:48 And we are asking, as we have said during the past talks, whether it is possible for a human being to be totally psychologically free of fear. Last Saturday, or Sunday, we went into that very carefully. And if one may briefly repeat it: is fear, of which all of us know, of various kinds, is fear 'of things' with regard to that or that, or is fear the very structure of the mind? Or thought has put fear there? Please, I am not asserting, we are talking over together. The mind, which is all the movement of the brain, the reactions, the responses of our nerves and all that, that mind, in itself, has it fear? Or thought, which is part of the mind, has brought about fear? Right? We are asking this question. And we said, to find that out you must examine the nature of thought. Our whole process of thinking which is born as a reaction out of knowledge, experience, stored up in the brain. As knowledge is always incomplete, whether scientific knowledge or the knowledge that one has acquired through experience or the knowledge through books, study, research, must always be incomplete. That's a fact. And thought therefore is incomplete, fragmented, broken up, divisive. And we are asking: has thought introduced the fact of fear? 因此，就像我们在以前的谈话中说过的，我们要问， 一个人是否可能 在心理上完全摆脱恐惧。 上星期六，或者是星期天，我们非常仔细地探讨了这个问题。 请允许我再简略地复述一下： 我们大家都知道的各种恐惧， 是因为这个或那个而产生的对“事物”的恐惧呢， 还是说恐惧恰恰就是头脑的结构？ 或者说是思想带来了恐惧？ 请注意，我不是要断言什么，我们是一起在探讨。 那个心智，是大脑的所有活动， 我们神经系统等等的所有应对、反应， 这样的心智，就其本身而言，它有恐惧吗？ 或者思想，作为心智的一部分，是它带来了恐惧？ 对吗？我们在问这个问题。 并且我们说过，要想找出答案， 你必须审视思想的本质。 我们的整个思考过程， 是从储存在大脑里的知识、经验之中产生的一种反应。 由于知识总是不完全的，不管是科学知识 还是一个人通过经验获得的知识， 或者通过书本、学习、研究获得的知识， 必然总是不完整的。这是个事实。 因此，思想是不完全的、 不完整的、破碎的、分裂的。 因此我们要问：是思想导致了恐惧这个事实吗？ 我们曾经说过，思想就是时间，
19:15 We said thought is time because thought is movement, and time is movement. That is, from here physically to go there, to cover the distance. And that same movement has been introduced into the psychological world: 'I am this, I shall be that' or 'I want to be that'. So there is not only physical time, but also psychological time. And that is the pattern in which we live, that is part of our conditioning. And we are asking, talking over together, thinking over together, whether thought is the factor of fear. And if so, can that thought observe itself bringing about fear and so find out... for the mind to discover that the mind itself has no fear - which we went into, which we can go into again if necessary. 因为思想是运动，而时间也是运动。 就是说，物理上从这儿到那儿，走完这段距离。 而那同样的运动 被引入到心理世界： “我是这样的，我应该是那样的”或者“我想成为那样”。 因此不单存在物理时间，也存在心理时间。 而那就是我们生活的模式， 那就是我们制约的一部分。 因此我们要问，要一起探讨，要一起思考， 思想是不是恐惧的因素。 如果是，那个思想能否观察到它自身带来了恐惧 进而发现……大脑发现 它自身中并没有恐惧 ——我们探讨过这点，如果必要，我们可以再探讨一次。 因此可以说，时间、成就，这上百万年间
21:10 So that is, time, achievement, this million years and more of our brain being conditioned, evolved. And that brain, that mind - the mind is part of that - is conditioned. And we are saying, asking each other, thinking together, whether such a mutation can take place. And that mutation can only take place psychologically when one can look at oneself very carefully without any distortion, because that is the central fact. Without any distortion - is that possible? It is only possible when there is no motive: to become something, to change something and so on. To observe without distortion actually what we are, not what we should be, or what we have been but what is going on now. 我们的大脑受到了制约、得到了进化。 而那个大脑，那个心智 ——心智是大脑的一部分——是被制约的。 因此我们要说，我们相互提问， 一起思考，这样的一次突变是否能发生。 而心理上那样的突变只能发生在 一个人能仔细地观察自己， 而不带任何扭曲之时，因为这是关键的事实。 没有任何扭曲——这可能吗？ 只有当不存在任何动机时那才是可能的： 动机就是想要成为什么，改变什么，等等。 没有任何扭曲地观察我们实际的样子， 不是我们应该如何，或者我们曾经如何 而是现在正在发生的事情。 而扭曲发生在
22:57 And distortion takes place when there is any fear in our observation - which we went into the other day - and if there is any form of pleasure. This is one of the central factors one has to understand, look at. Pleasure is one of our driving forces: pleasure of possession, pleasure of knowledge, pleasure of achievement, pleasure of power, pleasure of status and the pleasure of sex, the pleasure of following somebody and the pleasure of achieving enlightenment - whatever that may be. That's one of our central activities, like fear. They go together, unfortunately. I hope we are observing ourselves as we are, observing these two factors in life. It's not that the speaker is telling you you know all about this. And we say, as long as there is fear with all its anxiety, hatred, antagonism and so on and so on, comparison, conformity, imitation and the tremendous drive to have more and more pleasure and the pursuit of it is a distorting factor, in the observation of what is actually going on. 当我们的观察中存在着恐惧之时 ——几天前我们深入探讨过—— 以及存在任何形式的快乐之时。 这是每个人都必须看到和明白的关键因素之一。 快乐是我们的驱动力之一： 占有东西的快乐，获取知识的快乐， 取得成就的快乐，掌握权力的快乐，获取社会地位的快乐， 性的快乐，追随别人的快乐， 以及了悟的快乐 ——无论什么快乐。 就像恐惧一样，那是我们的核心活动之一。 不幸的是，它们总是如影随形。 我希望我们是按照本来的样子在观察自己， 观察生活中的这两个因素。 并不是讲话者在告诉你， 你知道所有这些事。 并且我们说，只要存在恐惧及其带来的焦虑、 怨恨、敌对，等等，诸如此类， 比较、因循、模仿 和想要拥有越来越多快乐的巨大驱动力， 以及对快乐的追求就是一个扭曲的因素， 这是在观察实际发生的事情的过程中发现的。 如果我们的观察是参照某些心理学家、哲学家、
26:06 If we observe according to some psychologist, some philosopher, some guru, some priest, some authority, then we are not observing. We are observing according to their knowledge, according to their investigation. And our minds have become so accustomed to accept others' research, investigation and conclusion and with that knowledge in our mind we try to look at ourselves. Therefore we are not looking at ourselves. We are looking through the eyes of another. And this has been the tyranny with which human beings have put up for a million years and more. 某些古鲁、牧师或某个权威进行的， 那么我们就不是在观察。 我们是通过他们的知识， 通过他们的研究在观察。 而我们的心智已经如此习惯于接受 他人的研究、调查和结论， 并且用我们头脑中的那些知识， 努力去观察我们自己。 所以我们并不是真的在观察自己。 我们是通过别人的眼睛在看。 这就是 一百多万年以来人类所忍受的专制。 我们并不是说你必须压制快乐，
27:33 We are not saying you must suppress pleasure or transform pleasure, or run away from pleasure. That's what the priests have done. That pattern, that idea of suppression, escape through identifying with some idol, person, or concept. That hasn't solved the problem. So we have to go together, investigate, think together, what is the nature of pleasure. 或者转化快乐，或者逃离快乐。 那是神父们所做的。 这种模式，这种压制的观念， 借助与某个偶像、人物或者观念相认同而逃避。 这并没有解决问题。 因此我们要一起来，一起研究、思考， 什么是快乐的本质。 正如我们说过的，这不是一场娱乐，
28:27 As we said, this is not an entertainment, this is very serious. If you are not serious, if you want to have a sun bath or sit under a beautiful tree, do so, but you are not paying attention to what is being said and this is a serious matter that affects our whole life. 而是非常严肃的。 如果你不认真，如果你想要晒个日光浴， 或者坐在一棵美丽的树下，就那样做吧，但 你不会注意我要说的话， 而这是影响我们整个生命的严肃的事情。 就像我们前几天探究
29:08 So as we went over the other day the nature and the structure of fear together again let us observe the nature of pleasure. Why human beings all over the world are condemned to this thing. Why human beings everlastingly follow it, in different ways. Right? So what is pleasure? Why sex has become important? In this country volumes and volumes are written about it. Is it a reaction to the Victorian era? It is as though for the first time one has discovered it. And here, without any restraint, without any modesty, - we are not condemning, we are observing - it is going on, sex in different forms. That's part of pleasure. The remembrance, the picture, the desire and so on. We went into the question, the other day, the nature of desire. I won't go into it now because we have limited time. 恐惧的本质和结构那样， 让我们再次一起看看快乐的本质。 为什么全世界的人 都因为这件事而受到责难。 为什么人类以不同的方式，永不停歇地追求它。 对吧？那么什么是快乐呢？ 为何性变得如此重要？ 在这个国家，关于它的书有很多很多。 这是对维多利亚时代的反动吗？ 就好像人们第一次发现了性一样。 而在这里，没有任何克制，没有任何羞怯， ——我们不是要谴责，我们是在观察—— 它发生着，有各种形式的性。 这是快乐的一部分。 这些记忆、图像、渴望等等。 前几天，我们深入过这个问题， 欲望的本质。 我现在不讨论它，因为我们的时间有限。 总是这种记忆：
31:23 And it is always the remembrance: remembering the pleasure, an incident which has passed, that incident has left a mark in the brain, from that mark which is the remembrance of that incident which has gone and that incident has given at that moment, at that second, great delight. Then the remembrance of it and the pursuing of it. So our brain, our mind, is a bundle of past remembrances. And these remembrances of various kinds have brought about this desire, this pursuit of pleasure. So, if you want to go very deeply into it - which we shall just now - the mind, including the brain - we are using the word 'mind', please bear in mind if I may explain, the mind is the brain with all its convolutions and all its experience stored up as knowledge, the mind is the reaction, physical sensations, all that, the totality of all that is the mind. The mind is part of this consciousness with all its content. 记住了快乐，某件发生过的事情， 那个事件在头脑中留下一个记号，从那个记号 也就是过去的事件留下的记忆， 那个事件，在那一时刻， 给了你巨大的喜悦。 然后我们就记住了它并追寻它。 因此我们的大脑，我们的心智就成为了一堆过往的记忆。 这些各种各样的记忆 带来了这种欲望，这种对快乐的追求。 因此，如果你想要深入地探讨它 ——这就是我们现在要做的——心智，包括大脑， ——我们用“心智”这个词，请记住， 如果我可以解释的话，心智就是大脑及其所有的脑回 和它作为知识储存起来的所有经验， 心智是反应、身体的感觉 以及所有这些，这一切的总和，就是心智。 心智是意识及其全部内容的一部分。 那么思想，思想是记忆的因素，
33:48 So can thought, which is the factor of remembrance, remembrance is the recording of an incident that for a second, for a minute, has given you sensation which has been transformed as pleasure can the mind not record? You understand what we are saying? You haven't gone into it probably, and we are going into it now. Our brain is a recording machine. Recording all the past experiences, pleasures, pain, anxiety, the wounds, the bruises psychologically one has received, all that is put together by thought. That is, the remembrance, and acting and pursuing according to that remembrance. We are saying, can the brain, can the whole totality of the mind not continue in registration? That is, if you have an incident: over, finished, not record it. I'll go into it a little bit. 记忆是对一个事件的记录， 那个事件在一秒钟、一分钟内，给了你触动， 它被转化成了快乐， 那么心智能否不记录呢？ 你明白我们所说的话吗？ 或许你还没有深入进去，而我们现在就要深入探讨它。 我们的大脑就是一个记录的机器。 它记录下过去的所有经验， 快乐、痛苦、焦虑、创伤， 以及一个人在心理上受到的伤害， 所有这些都通过思想汇集起来。 也就是，记忆，并且行动、追求， 都根据那个记忆。 我们说，大脑能否， 整个的心智能否不继续记录？ 也就是说，如果你碰上一件事：它结束了，完成了，不记录它。 我会更深入一点探讨它。 我们从小时候就开始记录
35:58 We record from childhood the wounds, psychological wounds that we have received. The pain that has been imposed by our parents, by education through comparison, that is: you must be like your brother or you must achieve certain position and so on. So we are, human beings, psychologically wounded. And if you are questioned now about the way you live, your beliefs, your confusions, your desire for power, questioned, you will get hurt - why you follow anybody, you get hurt. Now to listen to what is being said, asked, and not to register. I wonder if you follow all this. No, no, madam, this is quite difficult. No, no, don't say so easily. 我们所遭受的那些创伤、那些心理创伤。 那些父母和教育通过比较 强加给我们的伤痛， 这就是：你一定要像你哥哥那样 或者你必须爬到某个职位，等等。 因此，我们是遭受心理创伤的人类。 而如果你现在被质疑， 有关你的生活方式、你的信仰、 你的困惑、你对权力的欲望，受到了质疑， 你会觉得很受伤——质问你为何追随其他人，你就会受伤。 现在，倾听别人所说的、所问的，而不去记录。 我想知道你们是否跟上了。 不，不，夫人，这是相当困难的。 不，不，不要轻易地这样说。 不去记录你受到的恭维、
37:34 Not to register flattery that you receive or the wound, the insult. And that registration is almost instantaneous. If somebody tells you what a marvellous person you are, there is immediate registration. 'Oh, what a marvellous speech you made the other day'! That is registered, and from that registration there is pleasure or 'That was rather a stupid talk', immediately that is registered, that becomes the wound, and you carry it for the rest of your life, psychologically. We are saying, asking, looking at the mirror which is being presented, in that mirror we see ourselves without any distortion. That is, to be so attentive at the moment of flattery, at the moment of insult, at the second when somebody says a cruel word or points out your neurotic activities, to see it as fact and not register it. Tthat requires attention at that moment. Attention implies that, in that attention there is no centre from which you are attending. I won't go into all that because we did the other day. 或者那些伤害、那些侮辱。 而那种记录几乎是立刻发生的。 如果某个人告诉你你是多么优秀的一个人， 你马上就会记录下来。 “噢，你前几天做的演讲真是太棒了！” 那被记录下来，那个记录中有某种快乐。 或者“那实在是个愚蠢的演讲”，这也被马上记录下来， 变成一个创伤，你在心理上背负着它， 度过你的余生。 我们在谈论、询问、察看这面镜子， 镜子里呈现出什么， 在那面镜子中，我们不带任何扭曲地看到我们自己。 就是说，在受到恭维的那一刻， 在遭受侮辱的那一刻， 在某人说出伤人的话 或指出你神经质行为的那一刻，全神贯注， 看到那是个事实，而不记录它。 在那时要求“注意”。 “注意”意味着，在那种注意中， 在你的关注中没有一个中心。 我不会深入探讨所有这些，因为我们前几天探讨过了。 因此我们看到了快乐的本质。
40:03 So we see the nature of pleasure. I can't go more into it, briefly that is enough. Because we have a lot of things to talk over together. 我不能再深入讲了，简述一下就够了。 因为我们有很多东西要一起来探讨。 恐惧和快乐就是这样，那么我们进一步问：爱是快乐吗？
40:23 So fear and pleasure, and we are asking further: is love pleasure? Go into it, sirs, and ladies. Is love desire? Is love something you remember? An image you have created about the other person and you love that image? Is that love? Can there be love when there is conflict, ambition, the drive for success? Please enquire into all this, look at it in your own lives. We know the love of nature, the love of books, the love of poetry, love of this and that, but we are talking psychologically which is far more important because that distorts our lives and so distorts our activities and our actions. And without love there is nothing. 深入进去，先生们，女士们。 爱是欲望吗？ 爱是你记忆中的某种东西吗？ 你制造一个关于另一个人的意象， 然后你爱那个意象？那是爱吗？ 当存在冲突、野心、想要成功的驱动力时， 还能有爱吗？ 请深入探询所有这些，在你自己的生活中观察它。 我们知道对自然的喜爱，对书本的嗜好， 对诗歌的热爱，对这个和那个的爱， 但我们是从心理上探讨这个问题， 它远比其他更重要，因为那扭曲了我们的生活， 进而扭曲了我们的行为和行动。 而没有爱什么都不会存在。 因此如果我们是认真的，关心这个事实，
42:19 So if we are serious, concerned about this fact that human beings have created this society and that human beings, unless they bring about a radical transformation psychologically in themselves, they will go on century after century suffering, creating misery for others, and pursuing this everlasting illusion called God and so all the rest of it. 即人类创造了这个社会， 因而人类，除非他们带给自己 一场心理上的彻底转变， 否则他们将继续长期遭受苦难， 继续给其他人造成不幸， 并继续追求那被称为上帝的 永恒的幻觉及诸如此类的一切。 因此要去发现，或者遇见那朵
43:07 So to find out, or to come upon that strange flower which is called love which cannot come about through institutions, through organisations, through belief. And is love pleasure, desire, jealousy? If it is not, then is it possible to wipe out all that effortlessly, naturally, easily? That is, can hatred, violence, which certainly is not love, end? Not at some future time, not tomorrow. End. As you are listening, end it. And we went into the question that attachment is not love. Because attachment breeds every form of antagonism, dependency, fear and so on. You all see that, you all know that, you are all fully aware of all this. And seeing is the ending of it! Not merely logically, analytically see it, but to see the fact, the total consequences of attachment. It is very clear. But for most of us seeing is intellectually analysing, verbally explaining, and being satisfied with explanations. Whether philosophical, psychological and so on. To see what attachment implies actually! The pain of it, the jealousy, the antagonism, you know, the whole sequence of that movement. The very seeing, in the sense not only visual seeing - optical observation - but also the art of listening to this movement. And when you listen to it completely it is the ending of it. 被称为爱的奇葩， 它无法通过任何机构、 通过任何组织、通过信仰到来。 爱是快乐、欲望、嫉妒吗？ 如果不是，那么是否可能彻底地消除那一切， 不费力地、自然地、轻松地消除？ 就是说，仇恨、暴力，肯定不是爱，它们能终结吗？ 不是在将来的某个时间， 不是在明天。终结。 当你在聆听的时候，结束它。 我们探讨过那个问题，即依附不是爱。 因为依附产生各种形式的对立、 依赖、恐惧等等。 这些你们都能看到，你们都知道， 对这一切，你们都很清楚。 而看到就是它的终结！ 不是仅仅从逻辑上、以分析的方式看到它， 而是要看到事实，看到依恋的整个结果。 这是非常清晰的。 但对我们多数人而言，看到是从知识上去分析， 从语言上去解释，并满足于这些解释。 不管这一解释是哲学的，还是心理学的，等等。 要看到依附实际上所蕴含的内容！ 它的痛苦、嫉妒、对立，你知道， 这一运动的整个顺序。 这种看到本身， 不单是视觉意义上的看到——眼睛的观察—— 还包括聆听这种运动的艺术。 当你全然聆听它的时候，就是它的终结。 因此终结我们意识的内容，
47:08 So the ending of the content of our consciousness which is the very essence of the 'me', the self, the 'I'. Because that is that, the 'I'. The ancient Hindus in India said, the 'I', the centre, source, the very essence is there, reality, God, truth, is there, and round that there are many layers of ignorance and to free the mind of these various layers you must have many lives. You know, reincarnation, and all that stuff. We are not saying that. We are saying, as you see danger, hear danger, observe danger, there is instant response. When you see the danger of a bus coming towards you you move away instantly, unless you are neurotic. Perhaps most of us are! But we don't see the danger, the tremendous danger of attachment, of nationalism, of our separate beliefs, our separate ideas, ideals and so on. We don't see the great danger of that because it divides man against man, one guru against another guru, one part of religious organisation against another religious organisation. This is happening right through this country and all over the world. When you see danger you act. But unfortunately we don't see the psychological dangers: the danger of comparison, the danger of attachment, the danger of isolated individual demands. Because we are not individuals if you observe, we are not; the word 'individual' means indivisible, not broken up, not fragmented. Because our minds, our brains - if you observe it carefully - which has evolved through millennia upon millennia, millions and millions of years old, our brain is not your brain it is the brain of mankind, the brain of humanity. Psychologically you suffer, you are anxious, you are uncertain, confused, seeking security. That's exactly what they do in India, in Asia, all over the world. So psychologically we are one, one unitary movement. And through our education, through all our personal desires and so on, we have narrowed all this vast immense mind to our petty little quarrels and jealousies and anxieties. 意识的内容就是“我”、自我的本质。 因为那些内容就是那个“我”。 古印度的印度教徒曾经说过，这个“我”， 这个中心、源泉，整个的本质都在那儿， 真相、神、真理，都在那儿， 它的四周被很多层无知所包围， 如果想从层层无知中解脱， 你必须拥有很多次生命。 你知道，轮回转世，以及所有那些东西。 我们不这么说。 我们要说，当你看到危险， 听到危险，观察到危险，就会有立即的反应。 当你看到一辆车向你驶来的危险 你会马上走开，除非你是个神经病患者。 也许我们多数人都是！ 但我们没有看到这一危险，依附的、国家主义的、 我们不同的信仰、 观念、理想等等的巨大危险。 我们没有看到这些事情的巨大危险， 因为它把人分开，使人与人对立， 一个古鲁反对另一个古鲁， 一些宗教组织 反对另一些宗教组织。 这些事正发生在这整个国家 乃至全世界。 当你看到危险，你马上行动。 但不幸的是我们没有看见这种心理上的危险： 相互比较的危险， 依附的危险， 孤立的个人需求的危险。 因为我们并不是个体， 如果你观察，会发现我们不是个体；“个体”这个词意味着 不可分、不能打破、不支离破碎。 因为我们的心智、我们的大脑——如果你仔细观察它—— 经过了数百万年的进化， 有数百万岁的高龄，我们的大脑并不只是你的大脑， 而是整个人类的大脑。 在心理上你受苦，你焦虑， 你不确定、困惑，寻求安全， 那也正是人们在印度、亚洲、全世界所做的。 因此在心理上我们是一体的，是一个单一的运动。 而通过我们的教育，通过我们所有的个人欲望，等等， 我们使这个广阔巨大的心灵 缩减成了我们琐碎渺小的 争吵、嫉妒和焦虑。 并且，如果时间允许，我们也必须探究
52:25 And also, if time allows us, we have to go into the question of death, suffering, pain. I do not know if you want to go into all this because it is part of life. You can't say, 'Well, I am not interested in death, I am not interested in suffering'. That will be lopsided, unrealistic and such a mind which refuses is an infantile mind. We have to investigate the whole complex problem of life. Either one understands it immediately, the whole structure, or you take part by part and hope thereby to understand the whole. 有关死亡、苦难、痛苦的问题。 我不知道你们是否愿意探讨这些问题， 因为它们是生命的组成部分。 你不能说，“哦，我对死亡不感兴趣， 我对苦难不感兴趣”。 那将是偏颇的、不现实的， 并且这样一个拒绝的心智 是非常幼稚的。 我们必须探讨整个复杂的生命问题。 要么你马上就理解它的整个结构， 要么你一部分一部分地处理 并希望以此理解整体。 先生，拜托，这不是个问答会。
53:56 Sir, please, this is not a question and answer meeting. 因此我们也需要一起来考虑、讨论，什么是苦难，
54:15 So we have to also consider, talk over together, what is suffering, why human beings throughout the world go through this torture. If you are sensitive, if you are alert, watchful, one suffers a great deal. Not only in your own little backyard but you suffer for human beings who have no opportunity, who have no food, who have no education who will never ride in a car, who only have one piece of cloth. And the suffering man has imposed on animals. All that, this immense global suffering, through wars, the tyranny imposed by the dictators, the tyranny, the sorrow imposed by various doctrines and so on. So what is this, why has mankind, human beings, you and everyone, why are we not completely free of that thing? 为什么全世界的人们都经受这种折磨。 如果你敏感， 如果你是警觉的、留心的，你会发现人们遭受着很多痛苦。 不仅仅在你自己的小后院里， 而且你也为那些没有机会的人， 没有食物的人，上不起学的人， 那些一辈子没坐过汽车的人， 那些只有一件衣服蔽体的人而痛苦。 还有人类强加给动物的苦难。 所有这些，这个巨大的全球性苦难，通过战争、 独裁者强加的专制、 各种教条带来的专制、悲伤，等等。 这是怎么回事，为何人类、你以及每一个人， 为何我们不能彻底摆脱这种事情呢？ 在苦难存在的地方，就不会有爱的存在。
56:31 Where there is suffering there is no love. How can you? So where there is desire, pleasure, fear, conflict, suffering, there can be no love. So it becomes very important to understand why human beings go through this, year after year, century after century. Don't let's reduce it to some kind of romantic nonsense. It is an actual fact. When you lose somebody whom you think you love what agonies you go through. When you have failed in something. All that is a tremendous weight carried by human beings which they have not put off. 你如何能有爱？ 因此只要存在欲望、快乐、 恐惧、冲突、苦难，就不可能有爱。 因此，明白为什么人类年复一年、经年累世地 遭受这一切，就变得非常重要。 我们不要把它降低为某种浪漫的无稽之谈。 这是个千真万确的事实。 当你失去某个你认为你爱的人时， 你遭受多么大的痛苦。 还有当你做某事失败了的痛苦。 所有这些都是人类背负的巨大重担， 他们还没有把这些放下。 苦难能通过意志的行为来结束吗？
58:10 Is suffering to end by an act of will? Do you understand? You can't say, 'I will not suffer'. That very act of will is also part of suffering. You cannot run away from it - you do run away to church. Every form of escape we have from this tremendous burden. In the Christian world you have escaped through your own image. The Hindus, being a little more clever at this kind of game, they say, suffering comes because of your past life, for your misdeeds and so on and so on. First of all, why we have not resolved it? Why human beings, very clever in things technological, in killing each other, why we have not solved this question. First thing is, never to escape from this. You understand? Never to escape from suffering, psychologically. We have pain physically you do something about it, take a pill, doctor and so on and so on. But psychologically, when you lose somebody, when there is deep attachment to something or other, a person, and when that attachment is broken there are tears, anxieties, fear, sorrow. And when there is sorrow, the natural or unnatural response is to seek comfort. Comfort in drink, in drugs, in some ritualistic religious activity. The sense of great sorrow, tears, shock, at that moment it is not possible, you are in a state of shock. Haven't you noticed all this? But, as you come out of it - it may last a day, it may last a few hours, and I hope it won't last more than a couple of days - when you come out of it the immediate response is to find the cause of this suffering, analyse it which is another form of escape. Because you are running away from this central fact of looking at it, being with it. And when you come out of that shock thought begins: the remembrance of what we did together, what we didn't do, the remorse, the pain of the past, the loneliness which is now asserting itself, it's coming out - all that. To look at it without any movement of thought. Because thought is the central factor of fear. Thought is also that factor of pleasure and this sorrow which mankind has carried for a million years. It is part of this whole structure of the 'me', the 'I'. 你明白吗？ 你无法说，“我不要再受苦”。 那种意志的行为恰恰也是苦难的一部分。 你无法逃避它——你躲进教堂。 我们创造了从这个巨大负担中逃避的各种方式。 在基督教世界里，你通过自己的想象来逃避。 那些印度教徒，这种游戏玩得更聪明一点， 他们说，遭受苦难是因为你前世的生命， 因为你的恶业，等等，等等。 首先，我们为何没有解决这个问题？ 为什么人类，在技术方面、在互相残杀方面 如此聪明， 为什么我们没能解决这个问题。 首要的是，任何时候都不要想从中逃避。 你明白吗？ 永远不要在心理上逃避痛苦。 当我们身体疼痛时你想办法解决它， 吃点药，看医生，等等，等等。 但是在心理上，当你失去了某个人， 当你对某样东西，或某个人有深深依恋的时候， 当那个依恋被打破， 就会有眼泪、焦虑、恐惧、悲伤。 当处于悲伤中时，你的自然 或者不自然的反应就是去寻找安慰。 借酒消愁，或者吸食毒品， 参加一些仪式性的宗教活动。 感受到巨大悲痛、眼泪、震惊时， 在那一刻寻找安慰是不可能的，你处于一种震惊状态中。 难倒你不曾注意到这些吗？ 但是，当你从震惊里面走出来 ——那或许持续一天，或许会持续几个小时， 但我希望它不会持续得太久—— 当你从那种状态中走出来，你最直接的反应就是 去找到这种痛苦的原因，去分析它， 而这是另一种方式的逃避。 因为你在逃避“观察它、 和它待在一起”这一重要的事实。 并且当你从那场震惊中走出来， 思想就开始了： 回忆我们一起做过的事情， 我们没有做的事情，悔恨， 过去的伤痛，孤独， 这些现在都跑出来宣称它的存在——所有这些。 看着它而不带有任何思想活动。 因为思想就是恐惧的核心因素。 思想也是快乐和这种人类背负了 上百万年的悲伤的因素。 它是“我”这个整个结构的一部分。 现在我们谨慎地、深思熟虑地说，
1:04:24 And we are saying carefully, advisedly, that there is an ending to sorrow, completely. And it is only then there is the passion of compassion, love. 存在悲伤的完全了结。 并且只有那时才存在慈悲和爱的激情。 今天上午我们还有时间探讨死亡的问题吗？
1:04:57 And have we time this morning to go into the question of death? 几点了，先生？

问：还差25分钟到1点。
1:05:10 What time is it, sir?

Q:Twenty five to one. 		克：差25分钟到1点。
1:05:14 K:Twenty five to one. You see we have the last talk tomorrow. We have to talk about death, which is a very complex business and the nature of meditation, which is part of life. Not the meditation of five minutes every morning and afternoon and evening but meditation as the whole movement of life, not separate from action, from our daily action. So we have to investigate the nature of death, action and meditation. 你们都知道我们明天还有最后一场谈话。 我们必须得谈谈死亡，这是件非常复杂的事情， 还要谈一下冥想的本质，它是生命的一部分。 不是每天早上、下午、晚上 五分钟的冥想， 而是作为生命的整体运动的冥想， 它不是与行动、与我们的日常行动相分离的。 因此我们必须仔细审视 死亡、行动以及冥想的本质。 你们知道，先生们，女士们，
1:06:20 You know, sirs, and ladies, you may listen to all this, be stimulated by the speaker or be antagonistic to him because he is disturbing you, breaking down one's own vanities, showing one's own rather shoddy little pleasures, seeing yourself in the mirror which the speaker is putting before you: but all that has very little meaning unless you act. But action is very, very complex. It isn't just, 'I will do what I feel like'. That's what you have come to now: instant response to your desires, instant meditation and instant illumination. What nonsense all that is! That's what some of the psychologists, others are saying: do what you want. And what you want, what you have done is brought about this terrible society in which we live. That is the beginning of degeneration. With this lovely climate, beautiful country, there is rapid degeneration going on of which few of us are aware. We haven't even matured before we degenerate. We haven't even come to that. 你们可能听了这些， 被讲者激励， 或者反对他，因为他打扰了你， 毁掉了你自己的虚荣心， 暴露了你琐碎卑微的快乐， 从镜子中看到你自己， 这个镜子由讲话者放在你面前： 但除非你行动，否则所有这一切都没什么意义。 但行动是非常非常复杂的。它不仅仅是，“我要做 我想做的”。 这就是你们现在遇到的： 立即对你的欲望做出响应， 即刻的冥想还有即刻的领悟。 这都是些无稽之谈！ 这正是一些心理学家、 其他人说的：做你想做的。 然而正是你所想要的、你所做的一切带来了 这个我们生活在其中的可怕社会。 那正是堕落的开始。 在这个怡人的天气、这个美丽的国度中， 却发生着急剧的堕落， 而我们很少有人意识到了这一点。 我们甚至还没有成熟就开始退化了。 我们甚至没意识到这一点。 因此所有这些会谈、讨论、问答
1:08:56 So all these talks and discussions and question and answers have very little meaning unless one learns the art of listening, listening to oneself without any quiver, without any distortion, without any false response, just to listen to yourself. And also the art of seeing, observing yourself. You cannot observe yourself with your past experience. You have to observe yourself as you are, moving. Then there is an art of learning which is not the accumulation of knowledge and information. This whole business of living is so complex, one has to observe the whole movement of life. Perhaps we shall go into death and action and meditation tomorrow. 都没有什么意义，除非每个人都学会聆听的艺术， 仔细地聆听自己，没有任何颤抖，没有任何扭曲， 没有任何虚假的反应，只是聆听你自己。 并且也学会看的艺术，观察你自己的艺术。 你不能带着以前的经历去观察你自己。 你必须观察你本来的样子，运动中的样子。 这样就会有聆听的艺术， 它不是知识和信息的积累。 这整个生活的事情是如此复杂， 每个人都必须观察生命的整个运动。 也许我们明天应该讨论 死亡、行动和冥想。