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OJ81Q2 - 第二次问答会
欧亥，美国，1981年5月7日



0:15 It is such a lovely morning. It seems rather a pity to sit here and hear each other groan. 这是一个如此可爱的早晨。 坐着这里，听着 彼此呻吟，实在是太可惜了。
0:37 There are several questions that have been put and I don’t think it is possible to answer all of them. That would take, probably, a couple of months, and I am sure you wouldn’t like to be sitting here for the next two months, or I. Out of those questions we have chosen some, not according to our pleasure, or a question that is convenient for us and easily answerable, but rather questions that cover a greater field. 这里提出了很多问题， 我认为不可能回答全部的问题。 那可能需要花费数月的时间， 我确定你们不想坐在这里， 坐上两个月，我也是。 在所有问题之中，我们选择了一些， 不是依照我们的喜好， 或者某些易于我们解答的问题， 而是涵盖了更大领域的那些问题。
1:33 Are the answers to the question different from the question itself? Or the question contains the answer? The answer is not separate from the question. Most of us put a question either to ourselves or to somebody trying to find an answer – a problem, and a solution of that problem. We never seem to investigate the problem itself but rather be concerned with the solution of the problem, the resolution of that problem. So our approach to a problem is, searching out for an answer, convenient, suitable, agreeable, necessary and so on. But one feels, if one may point out, that in the question itself is the answer. So it is important, it seems to me, how we approach the question, any question, any problem, whether it is a personal problem, a problem of relationship, a universal, global problem. How do we come to it? How do we receive it? How do we look at it? I think in that lies the solution of our problems, not seeking an answer to the problem, but the understanding of the content of the problem itself. 问题的答案不同于问题本身吗？ 或者问题包含了答案？ 答案和问题并不是分离的。 我们中的绝大多数，向我们自己，或其他人提问， 尝试找到一个答案—— 一个问题，以及那个问题的解决方式。 我们似乎从不去调查问题本身， 而是关心问题的解决， 问题的消除。 所以，我们处理一个问题的方式就是，找出一个答案， 方便的，合适的，令人同意的，必要的，等等（的答案）。 但是，我感觉，如果我可以指出来的话， 在问题本身中就有答案。 所以，对我来说，重要的是，我们如何处理问题， 任何问题，任何麻烦，不管是个人的问题， 关系的问题，还是宇宙的，全球的问题。 我们要如何开始？我们要如何接收她？如何看着它？ 我认为这其中就包含了问题的解决， 不是搜寻一个答案， 而是理解问题本身的内容。
3:54 Right? I hope we are together thinking about this. We are sharing together the question, not the speaker is answering the question but rather, together, we are looking at the question, investigating the question, and out of that perception, sympathetic awareness, sensitive awareness of the question, the answer itself is in it. 对吗？ 我希望我们在一同思考这些。 我们在一起分享这个问题， 不是演讲者回答这个问题， 而是，我们一同看着这个问题， 调查这个问题，并且从觉察中产生， 对问题的同情的，敏感的觉察 答案本身就在其中。
4:36 First Question: 'I realise I act neurotically – on a lovely morning, too bad! I realise I act neurotically and I have had psychotherapy but the neurosis is still basically there. What can I do?' 第一个问题：“我认识到，我神经质地行动—— 在这样一个可爱的早晨，这太糟了！ 我认识到，我神经质地行动，我经历过心理治疗， 但是神经质基本上依然在那里。 我能做什么？”
5:04 'I realise I act neurotically and I have had psychotherapy but the neurosis is still basically there. What can I do?' “我认识到，我神经质地行动，我经历过心理治疗， 但是神经质基本上依然在那里。 我能做什么？”
5:22 I wonder how many of us are sane, rational, clearheaded, objective, not always moving in our own self-centred interest. How many of us are free to look at themselves? If I am neurotic, that is, odd behaviour, violent, which is neuroticism, always depending on my lawyers, insurance, doctors, government, always relying on others, which are all parts of that neurotic sense of incompleteness. Would we admit to that, even? Would we be aware of ourselves, how extraordinarily we are dependent on everybody? And we are not talking of the dependence on a postman, on the man who helps with the petrol – gas – or the policeman and so on, but this feeling that one must depend, one must have identity, independence, the search for identity, which is fulfilment, to have roots in something or other. One wonders how deeply we are aware of all this. All that is part of neurosis, part of our peculiar, abnormal behaviour, which has become very normal. 我想知道我们有多少人是理智的， 理性的，头脑清楚的，客观的， 不是一直在我们自己自我中心的利益中活动。 我们中有多少人能自由地看他们自己？ 如果我是神经质的，也就是，古怪的言行， 暴力，也就是神经质， 总是依赖我的律师，保险，医生，政府， 总是依赖其他人， 这也都是那种不完整的神经质的一部分。 我们会承认这一点吗？ 我们意识到我们自己， 我们是如此依赖任何人吗？ 我们不是在谈论依赖邮差， 依赖帮忙加油——加气——的工人， 或者警察等等， 而是那种一个人必须依赖的感觉， 一个人必须认同，依赖， 寻找认同，也就是满足， 在某些事情中扎根。 我想知道我们有多深入地认识到所有这些。 所有这些都是神经质的一部分， 我们奇怪，不正常的行为的一部分， 这些已经都变得正常了。
8:27 Could we look at ourselves as if in a mirror which doesn’t distort, which shows exactly what you are looking at? Could we do that? Not depend on psychotherapy, or any other form of system, belief, or escape, but actually look at ourselves, not withdraw ourselves in order to look, but look at ourselves in our relationship, in our behaviour, the way we speak, the way we walk, the way we look at the beauty of a hill. Is that at all possible, never distorting what we see? 我们能否看着自己，就像面对一面不会扭曲， 精确地展示我们看到的东西的镜子？ 我们能做到吗？ 不是依赖心理治疗， 或者其他形式的系统，信仰或者逃避， 而是真正地看着我们自己， 不为了看而退缩自己， 而是在关系，在我们的行动中观察自己， （观察）我们说话，走路的方式， 我们看一座美丽的山丘的方式。 有可能，完全不扭曲我们看到的东西吗？
9:47 Isn’t it far more important to observe ‘what is’, rather than ‘what should be’? We are all so idealistically inclined that we never see actually what is going on. Our eyes are towards the horizon but never very close. And why has the whole world become like this? Please ask these questions. Why do we go to somebody if we are in trouble? Why can’t we face that trouble, look at it, not analytically, not find the cause of it – that appears to be a waste of time. But just to look at it. And in that perception the cause, the consequences, the whole movement is revealed. Please do this as we are talking together. 观察”事实之是“，不远比 ”应当如何“重要吗？ 我们都有理想主义的倾向， 我们从不曾看到事实上在发生什么。 我们的眼睛看向地平线，但是不看近处。 为什么整个世界变成了这个样子？ 请问这些问题。 为什么当我们遇到麻烦时，我们走向其他人？ 为什么我们不能面对问题，看着它， 不是分析式的，不是找到它的原因 ——那似乎是浪费时间。而是只是看着它。 在那种觉察中，原因， 结果，整个运动都被揭示了。 在我们共同讨论的过程中，请这样做。
11:43 And if one is neurotic – I don’t know in what sense one uses the word, perhaps the whole world is neurotic, because they are all preparing for war, conflict, tremendous ambition, competition, trying to deceive somebody, corrupt. The whole world has become like this. Corruption, it seems to me, not only in the high places, but in the ordinary, daily life, corruption seems to have become the norm of life. And perhaps that may be the source of this neuroticism. And what can one do, what can I do if I perceive for myself, actually, that I'm neurotic? Not somebody tells me I am neurotic, but if I find my behaviour is peculiar, utterly self-centred, utterly selfish, but I am very emotional, there is no balance. I perceive all that helping to bring about a quality of mind which is contradictory, which is in conflict, which is never straight. What shall I do? That's what the questioner asks. 如果一个人是神经质的 ——我不知道你在什么意义上使用这个词， 也许整个世界都是神经质的， 因为他们都在准备战争， 冲突，巨大的野心，竞争， 尝试欺骗某人，腐败。 整个世界都已经变成了这样。 腐败，对我而言，不只是在高位， 而是在日常生活中， 腐败似乎变成了正常的生活。 也许这就是神经质的本源。 如果我为我自己觉察到，实际上，我是神经质的， 我们能做什么，我能做什么？ 不是什么人告诉我我是神经质的， 而是如果我发现我的行为是古怪的， 彻底的自我中心，彻底的自私， 我们非常感情化，这其中没有平衡。 我观察到，这一切都在造成 一种冲突的意识， 冲突，从不正真（的意识）。 我要做什么？这就是提问者问的。
14:05 Certainly, if I had that kind of problem, that kind of neurosis, I certainly would not go to an analyst, psychotherapy, because the analyst needs also to be analysed. So what shall I do? That is the question put before all of us. 如果我有这种神经质的问题， 我肯定不可以去找分析师，心理治疗， 因为分析师也需要被分析。 所以我要做什么？ 这就是摆在我们所有人面前的问题。
14:38 What is the crisis that makes me aware that I'm neurotic? Something must make me aware of it. Either somebody tells me, my wife, my husband, my friend, or I observe what I am doing. I observe whether it is natural – again that word is very difficult, a complex word ‘natural’ – whether I am a little bit odd in the head. The modern world, with all its problems, is making people very strange, superficial, wanting to be entertained endlessly. Can I acknowledge my neuroticism and observe it, not try to change it, not try to say, ‘I must become sane, I must become normal, I must be something else’, but to observe it as it is, which means giving attention? But a neurotic person may not be able to give attention. I may not be capable of giving my whole mind, my heart, to look at myself, because one of my neurotic behaviours is I can't look at myself. I don’t like what I see. I get depressed at what I see, or terribly elated. But without elation and without depression, without any kind of distortion, can I, as a neurotic person, look at myself? Because I am neurotic I can’t look at myself so clearly, so I depend on somebody to tell me what to do. You see the problem? I'm incapable of looking at myself rationally, sanely, intelligently, with sensitive awareness, and so I have to go to somebody to tell me what to do. I think asking another to tell me what to do is the essence of neuroticism, Right? I know you will probably disagree, but especially in this country and it is spreading all over the world that we are looking to specialists, to the authority, to tell us what to do. 什么样的危机可以让我们认识到我们是神经质的？ 必须发生某些事情让我们觉察到它。 或者某人，我的妻子，丈夫，朋友告诉我， 或者我自己观察到自己在做什么。 我观察它是否是自然的—— 同样，”自然“这个词也是困难而复杂的—— 我的脑子是否有些怪。 现代世界，伴随着它所有的问题， 正在让人类越来越奇怪，肤浅， 想要无穷无尽地娱乐。 我可以承认我的神经质， 观察它，而不尝试改变它， 不尝试说，”我必须变理性， 我必须变正常，我必须变成什么样子。” 而是去观察它的样子， 也就意味着给予关注吗？ 但是一个神经质的人也许不能给予关注。 我也许不能给予我全部的意识， 我的心灵，去看着我自己， 因为我的神经质的行为之一， 就是我不能看着我自己。 我不喜欢我看到的东西。 我对我看到的东西感到沮丧，或者异常高兴。 但是没有高兴，没有沮丧， 没有任何形式的扭曲， 我可以，作为一个神经质的人，看着我自己吗？ 因为我是神经质的，我不能清楚地看着我自己， 所以我依赖其他人告诉我做什么。 你看到问题了吗？ 我不能理性地看着我自己， 理智地，带着敏感地觉察， 所以我必须找其他人告诉我去做什么。 我认为询问他人告诉我们要做什么， 就是神经质的本质。 对吗？ 我知道你也许不同意， 但是尤其在这个国度，并且这一点正在全世界蔓延， 也就是我们寻找专家，权威， 来告诉我们要做什么。
18:59 So I remain neurotic when I'm always depending on somebody. So can I look at myself, though I'm neurotic, watch myself, watch everything alertly, not in a self-centred way which is a form of neuroticism – just watch. Watch what I am saying. This demands quite a different kind of education. The education that encourages self-education. Right? Am I making myself clear? Are we together sharing all this? Self-education, not the education according to somebody, but observing all the things I am doing, thinking, feeling, and know their limitation, and find out whether the mind can ever be free from its limitation. 所以，当我总是依赖其他人时，我一直是神经质的。 所以，我可以看着我自己，虽然我是神经质的， 看着我自己，警惕地看到所有事， 不是以自我中心的方式，这也是神经质的一种形式 ——只是看。 看看我说了什么。 这需要一种不同的教育。 鼓励自我教育的教育。 对吗？我讲清楚了吗？ 我们在一起分享这一切吗？ 自我教育，不是根据某人（的观点）来教育， 而是观察我正在做的一切， 思考，感受，知道它们的局限， 并且发现意识是否能从它的局限中解脱出来。
20:45 Second Question: 'Why is human behaviour in this country degenerating so rapidly, and what can one do to change it? What can this country give to the rest of the world?' 第二个问题：“为什么在这个国家，人们 的行为如此快地退化，我们能够做些什么来改变它吗？ 这个国家给了世界什么？”
21:02 'Why is human behaviour in this country degenerating so rapidly, and what can we do to change it? What can this country give to the rest of the world?' “为什么在这个国家，人们 的行为如此快地退化，我们能够做些什么来改变它吗？ 这个国家给了世界什么？”
21:24 What has this country given to the rest of the world – now? The atom bomb, food – Americans are terribly generous, all the materials of war, medicine, hygiene, and the extraordinary accumulation of knowledge about the cosmos, the expanding and contracting universe, how to have refrigerators, television. This is what it has given so far to the world, the ‘know-how’. But the world is learning the ‘know-how’ also, perhaps even better than they are learning here, like Japan. So, what are we giving to the world? Actually, apart from all this? We are giving grain, a sense of continuous constant demand for entertainment, football, the whole process of what one sees on the television, day after day. We are spreading a thin layer of knowledge and entertainment. How to destroy each other. Also America is giving grain, all the good things they have done. 现在，这个国家给了世界什么？ 原子弹，食物——美国人是十分慷概的， 各种战争的材料，医药，卫生设施， 还有惊人的积累的知识， 关于宇宙，宇宙的扩张和收缩， 如何拥有冰箱，电视机。 这就是目前它给世界的东西， “知道-如何”。但是这个世界也在学习“知道-如何”， 也许甚至比他们从这里学到的还要好，就像日本。 所以，我们给了这个世界什么？ 事实上，在这一切之外？ 我们给予了谷物， 持续不断的对娱乐的要求， 足球，我们在电视上看到的那些， 一天又一天。 我们在扩展薄薄的一层知识和娱乐。 如何去破坏彼此。 美国人也给了很多好东西，给了粮食。
23:59 So, what is culture? Is this part of culture only the Americans give? And all the evangelists, you have heard them, I'm quite sure, the speaker listens to them quite often, the utter nonsense that goes on, thousands and thousands listen, giving money, money, money. And the gurus come over to this country from India with all kinds of ridiculous nonsense, and Americans being rather gullible – if I may point out – accept all that, play with it for a while and drop it. And the gurus get rich and powerful. So actually, apart from all this, what is it that America can give? 所以，文化是什么？ 这是只有美国人给予的文化的一部分吗？ 你知道，所有那些你能听到的那些福音传道者， 演讲者经常听到他们， 那些在进行的，彻头彻尾的废话， 成千上万的人在听， 给予金钱，金钱，金钱。 还有从印度来到这个国家的大师们， 带着各种荒谬的废话， 而美国人是轻信的——如果我能指出的话—— 接受了这一切，和它玩一会游戏，又抛弃它。 大师们就变得富有又有权力了。 所以，事实上，除了这一切，美国人给了什么？
25:22 It is a beautiful country, really one of the most beautiful countries in the world. You have hills, mountains, rivers, vast land, deserts, and extraordinary capacity. Religion, not according to the old tradition – which is not religion at all, vast meaningless repetition – religion is the only source from which a new culture can be born. The question then arises: can America – I don’t know why we say America – can the world, because America is part of the world, can the world bring about a new religion, totally different from all the superstition, belief, tradition, hierarchical acceptance, saviours, the old beliefs and faiths, brushing all that aside, which is actually not religion at all, can the world bring about a new religion? Not merely America or Europe or India, but the whole world. Because from that alone can a new culture come. 这是一个美丽的国家， 真的是这个世界上最美丽的国家之一。 你们有丘陵，山脉，河流， 大片的土地，荒漠，还有惊人的能力。 宗教，不是基于古老的传统 ——那根本不是宗教， 只是大量的毫无意义的重复—— 宗教是唯一的，可以诞生新文化的源头。 问题从而诞生了：美国可以， ——我不知道我们为什么说美国——这个世界可以， 因为美国只是世界的一部分， 世界可以带来一种新的宗教， 彻底不同于所有那些迷信， 信仰，传统，对等级体系的接受， 救世主，古老的信念，信仰， 把所有那些放到一旁，那些事实上根本不是宗教， 世界可以带来一种新的宗教吗？ 不只是美国，欧洲或者印度，而是整个世界。 因为从那之中，就可以诞生新的文明。
27:18 Then the question of what America can give to the world has very little meaning. The world demands a new religion – not religion, that word again has been spoilt by the priests. A religion of not faith, or belief, of authority, but a religion of that which is the utmost sacred. In this country there is no such thing, or the respect of sacredness. You will spit on it. So, to find out that which is sacred, nameless, eternal, the truth that has no path to it, to find that out as a group of people, which means to live a life of great integrity, without any corruption, without being self-centred. Perhaps out of that, a religious mind, a new culture can come about. And that is part of our crisis. 然后，美国人给予了世界什么这个问题， 就没有什么意义了。 世界需要一个新的宗教——不是宗教， 那个词被神职人员用坏了。 不是基于信仰，信念的权威的宗教， 而是那种最神圣的宗教。 在这个国家，没有（神圣）这种事， 或者对神圣的尊重。 你会对它吐口水。 所以，去发现那神圣的，无法命名的，永恒的， 没有道路可以通向的真理， 去发现它，作为一群人， 那意味着度过十分完整的一生， 没有任何腐败，没有任何自我中心。 也许从那之中，一种宗教意识，一种新的文化就会诞生。 那也是我们问题的一部分。
29:12 Third Question: 'You have said that when one is attached, there is no love. I understand this, but there are moments of love in which there is no separation, no desire, no thought, and yet these moments often come in connection with a person to whom one is attached. Attachment seems to create a form, a boundary within which there are moments of love. Though attachment is not love, in some mysterious way the two are linked. They seem self-contradictory. Please go into this apparent paradox.' 第三个问题：”你说过，当一个人依赖时， 就没有爱。 我明白这一点，但是存在爱的瞬间， 在其中没有分离感，没有欲望，没有思想， 而且当和依赖的人有连结时， 那种时刻经常到来。 依赖似乎创造了一个形式，一个边界， 在其中有爱的瞬间。 虽然依赖不是爱， 在某些神奇的方面，二者是关联的。 他们似乎是自相矛盾的。 请探究一下这个明显的悖论。“
30:18 'You have said' – sorry, the question is a bit long – 'You have said that, when one is attached, there is no love. I understand this, but there are moments of love in which there is no separation, no desire, no thought, and yet these moments often come in connection with a person to whom one is attached. Attachment seems to create a form, a boundary within which there are moments of love. Though attachment is not love, in some mysterious way the two are linked. They seem self-contradictory. Please go into this apparent paradox.' ”你说过“——抱歉，这个问题有点长—— ”你说过，当一个人依赖时，就没有爱。 我明白这一点，但是存在爱的瞬间， 在其中没有分离感，没有欲望，没有思想， 而且当和依赖的人有连结时， 那种时刻经常到来。 依赖似乎创造了一个形式，一个边界， 在其中有爱的瞬间。 虽然依赖不是爱， 在某些神奇的方面，二者是关联的。 他们似乎是自相矛盾的。请探究一下这个明显的悖论。“
31:17 What do you say? You have listened to that question, paid attention to it. What is our response to that? What is attachment? There are various forms of attachment, not only to a person, but to a belief, to this thing called faith, to a piece of furniture, to a small ground, a little property with a house on it. What is the cause of this holding on? Holding on to one’s ideas, ideals, conclusions, opinions, prejudices, holding on to some hope, future, or to some remembrance of things past, clinging to them desperately. What is the cause of this? Without analysis, just to find the reason of this. You understand what I mean? 你要说什么？ 你们已经听到了这个问题，请给予注意力。 我们对它的反应是什么？ 什么是依赖？ 有各种形式的依赖， 不只是对一个人，而是对一个信仰， 对被叫做信念的事，对一块家具， 对一点财产，一小块有房子的土地。 这种坚持的原因是什么？ 坚持一个人的观点，理想，结论，意见，偏见， 坚持某种希望，未来， 或者对过去事情的记忆， 绝望地依附于它们。 这一切的原因是什么？ 没有分析，只是去发现这其中的原因。 你明白我的意思吗？
33:26 That is, our brains are trained to analyse. Right? There is a problem, let’s analyse it and find the solution. Analysis takes time, but who is the analyser who is going to analyse? The analyser is the analysed – I won’t go into that, perhaps you will see that as we go along. 也就是，我们的头脑被训练去分析。 对吗？ 有一个问题，让我们分析它，然后找出解决方法。 分析需要时间，但是谁是那个在进行分析的分析者呢？ 分析者就是被分析之物——我不想再讨论那些， 也许在我们深入的过程中，你会看到。
34:04 So, why is the human mind attached to something or other? To one’s body – you follow? – or to some experience that you have had, and that kind of holds you, encourages you, guides you, and you depend more and more on something that has happened, gone, dead. Or to some future concept, which gives us so much hope. Why this clinging, this desperate hanging on to something? Please ask yourself. You are not listening to the speaker, that’s not important. What is important is, through the speaker to watch yourself, to see yourself, if you are attached to something. and is it out of loneliness, which is so deep in most human beings, almost in all human beings, this sense of total isolation? Or is it that clinging, holding on, being attached to something, gives one a great sense of security? When you say, 'I am an American, British, French, Indian, Japanese', it gives you... You have your roots in that. Roots in an idea, in a concept. 'America' is a concept. And in that attachment there is a tremendous feeling of belonging. And that gives one not only financial security but psychological security. If I am in Italy, where Catholicism is very strong, and if I say, 'It's all rubbish', I’ll find myself in a difficult position. I wouldn’t get a job, I would be excommunicated, you know all the nonsense that goes on. So, is it out of loneliness we are attached, out of demanding, searching, longing for security? Being uncertain, confused, if I cling to something that gives one a feeling of clarity. Don’t you know all that? 所以，为什么人类意识依赖于某事或者其他？ 依赖一个人的身体——你明白吗—— 或者某些你拥有的经验， 支撑你，鼓励你，指导你的 已经发生过的，已死之事， 而你越来越依赖。 或者依赖某些未来的概念，它给我们很多希望。 为什么有这种依赖，这种绝望地对某事的坚持？ 请问你自己。 你不是在听演讲者，那不重要。 重要的是，通过演讲者去看你自己， 看你自己，你是否依赖某事。 而这是出于孤独，绝大多数， 几乎所有人类不都有的那种彻底隔离的感觉吗？ 或者这种依附，坚持，依赖某事， 给予一个人一种强烈的安全的感觉？ 当你说，“我是一个美国人，英国人，法国人，印度人，日本人“， 它给你……你在那之中扎下了根。 在一个观念，概念中扎根。 ”美国“是一个概念。 并且在那种依赖中，有强烈的归属的感觉。 而那给与一个人，不只是经济的安全， 而是心理的安全。 如果我在意大利，那里有强大的天主教背景， 如果我说，”那些全都是垃圾“， 我会发现我自己处于一个困难的位置，我找不到工作， 我会被逐出教会，你知道的所有的废话。 所以，是出于孤独，我们依赖， 出于对安全感的要求，寻找与渴望吗？ 不确定，困惑，如果我依赖某事， 它会给我一种清晰的感觉。 你不知道所有这些吗？
37:53 And if I love my wife or friend or a girl, or a boy, I'm attached, immediately the whole process of remembrances, incidents, words that have been said between us, all that is stored up and one is attached to that, not only physically but psychologically, inwardly, to the memory of sex, pleasure, entertainment, companionship, somebody on whom you can lean, talk to. You know, all that goes on and on and on. Is that why we are attached? And in this attachment to a person, to a belief, to a concept, to a country, you bring conflict, inevitably. If I am saying, persistently, that I am an American, that I am a Hindu, that I am a Muslim, you worship this symbol and I worship another symbol, we are perpetually in conflict. And if I am attached to a person, I want to possess it, hold it. Don’t you know all this – or I have to tell you? And out of that come jealousy, anxiety, fear. And in that there is tenderness, love – I don’t know if there is love. We will call it for the moment 'love' – a sense of being together. And in that, too, there is conflict because one goes off to the office – all that goes on. One hasn’t to go into all that, obviously. 如果我爱我的妻子，朋友，或者某个男孩女孩， 我依赖他，立刻，整个记忆的过程， 意外，我们之间说过的词语， 所有那些被储存，并且一个人依赖的那一切， 不只是物理上，还有心理上，内在， （依赖）性的记忆，快感，娱乐， 陪伴，某个你可以学习，交流的人。 你知道，所有在发生的一切。 这是我们依赖的原因吗？ 在那种对一个人，一种信仰，一个概念， 一个国家的依赖中，不可避免地，你带来了冲突。 如果我坚持说，我是一名美国人， 我是一名印度人，一名穆斯林， 你崇拜这种符号，而我崇拜另外的符号， 我们就永远处于冲突之中。 并且如果我依赖某个人， 我想去拥有他，抓住他。 你不知道这一切——或者我告诉过你吗？ 并且从这之中，诞生了嫉妒，焦虑，恐惧。 在那之中也有温柔，爱—— 我不知道那是否是爱。我们会称之为”爱“的瞬间 ——一种在一起的感觉。 在那之中，也有冲突，因为我们要去办公室 ——所有那一切。显然，一个人还没有深入所有那些。
40:23 So, the questioner asks, sometimes in this attachment there is love, in this attachment – not only to a person, the questioner is probably concerned with a person – there is a sense of form, boundary, in which there are moments of love. So, we must be very clear what that word means, the content of that word, the feeling behind that word, which is a very strong feeling. You are attached to your house. You have built the garden, you have worked at it, you’ve kept it clean, worked, and it gives you a sense of ownership, feeling that you are there. And if you have lived with a woman or a man, as a wife or a husband, this whole process of being together, the quarrels, the irritations, you know, the conflicts. In spite of that, if that is not broken, you are holding on to each other. 所以，提问者问，在这种依赖中有爱， 在这种依赖——不只是对人， 提问者也许考虑的是人—— 这其中有一种形式，边界的感觉，其中有爱的时刻。 所以，我们必须非常清楚那个词意味着什么， 那个词的内容，那个词背后的感受， 那是一种很强烈的感受。 你依赖你的房子，你修了花园， 你在其中工作，你让它保持整洁， 工作，而它给予你一种拥有的感觉， 感觉你就是它。 如果你和一个女人或者男人，作为妻子或者丈夫，生活在一起， 这整个在一起， 吵架，生气，你知道的，冲突的过程。 即使如此，如果它没有破裂， 你还是会抓住彼此。
42:27 So one has to understand, very clearly, what it means to be attached, the feeling of being attached. And, when one is attached, see what happens. Attachment breeds corruption. You may not accept it. Don't be shocked by that word, just look at it. If I am attached to my job, to my ideal, to my concept of what truth is, God is, or whatever it is, attached to it, part of my belief, my blood, my conditioning. If I am so attached, corruption is inevitable because I'm against everybody else who doesn’t belong to that particular group, sect. I may have tolerance – that is one of our clever tricks. But there is no actual relationship between one who is Catholic, who is a Muslim and a Hindu, or a Buddhist. They may talk about, 'God is love' and all, but there is actually no partaking a relationship at all. In attachment, there is fear of loss. 所以，一个人要非常清楚地理解， 依赖意味着什么，那种被依赖的感觉。 当一个人依赖时，看看发生了什么。 依赖滋生了腐败。 你也许不接受它。 不要被这个词震惊到，只是看着它。 如果我依赖我的工作，我的理想， 我的真相是什么的，上帝等等是什么的概念， 依赖我的信念，（就像）我的血液， 我的制约。如果我依赖，腐败就是不可避免的， 因为我反对所有其他人， 那些不属于特定组织，教派的人。 我也许可以忍受——这是我们聪明的把戏之一。 但是在一名天主教徒，穆斯林，印度教徒， 或者佛教徒之间，没有真正的关系。 他们也许会谈论，”上帝就是爱“等等， 但是实际上没有真正的关系。 在依赖中，有对失去的恐惧。
44:28 So, I don’t quite see where the paradox lies. The speaker may be wrong, subject to correction. Where there is love there is no attachment. Love is not jealousy, anxiety, fear. Love is that quality, the beauty of it, the fullness of it, the enormous vitality, passion behind it – not lust, passion. And one can be together, man, woman, in freedom – not the freedom to do what you like, which is not at all free. This is what is happening in this country. I have been married, I get fed up with my wife and I change her and get a divorce. You know what is happening. So, if one has love, which is really an enormous, sacred gift, not to be cultivated but to see what is not. You understand? Through negation come to the positive. That which is not. To deny, not merely verbally but inwardly, actually to deny that which is not, that which is false, and to see actually the false, the illusion, the acceptance. So, through negation, naturally one comes to the positive. That is, to begin with uncertainty and then you come to absolute certainty. But we generally want to be certain, assured, secure. Haven’t you noticed, some of the great writers, literary people, people who are so-called famous in the world, begin with denying everything? And then, ultimately, end up as a Catholic, Buddhist, or some kind of sectarian person, because they are frightened of death. 所以，我没有看到，那里有悖论。 演讲者也许是错的，有待纠正。 哪里有爱，哪里就没有依赖。 爱不是嫉妒，焦虑，恐惧。 爱是一种品质，其中有美，有圆满， 有巨大的活力，激情——不是欲望的激情。 男人和女人可以在自由中在一起， ——不是做你想做的事情的自由，那根本不是自由。 看看这个国家发生了什么。 我结婚了，我厌倦了我的妻子， 我就离婚，然后换一个。 你知道发生了什么。 所以，如果一个人有爱， 爱是真正的，巨大的，神圣的礼物， 不是去培养，而是看到不是爱的东西。 你明白吗？通过否定到达肯定。 （对）不是（爱）的东西。 去否定，不只是词语上，而是内在， 真正的否定，不是（爱）的东西， 也就是虚假的东西， 真正地看到其中的虚假， 幻觉，和接受。 所以，通过否定，一个人自然获得了肯定。 也就是，从不确定开始， 然后你就能到达彻底的确定。 但是我们想要确定，安全，保证。 你是否注意过，一些大作家， 富有文化的人，所谓的世界上的名人， 从否定一切事情开始？ 然后，最终，以天主教徒，佛教徒， 或者其他教派的人结束， 因为他们害怕死亡。
48:29 So the question is, not that there are not moments of love, whatever that word may mean, for the moment, but to see all the implications of attachment, the totality of it, not to persons only but to be attached to anything – to your face, to your body, to your beliefs, to your experience, to your...you follow? That is freedom. And when there is that freedom, there is love. When there is love, you can do what you will. Bien. 所以，问题不是没有这样爱的时刻， 不管那个时刻，那个词意味着什么， 而是去看到依赖的所有含义，依赖的整体， 不只是对人，而是对任何事的依赖 ——对你的脸，你的身体，你的信仰， 你的经验，你的……你明白吗？ 那就是自由。 当有自由时，就会有爱。 当有爱时，你能做任何你想做的事。 好的。
49:54 Fourth Question: 'One cannot live outside of relationship, and yet, in all forms of it, there is conflict. Why is this so?' 第四个问题：”一个人不能脱离关系生活， 但是，在关系的所有形式中，都有冲突。 为什么会这样？”
50:05 'One cannot live outside of relationship, and yet, in all forms of it, there is conflict. Why is this so?' ”一个人不能脱离关系生活， 但是，在关系的所有形式中，都有冲突。 为什么会这样？”
50:20 Oh, Lord! I'm not appealing to Lord, you understand. Just a phrase. Why have we made life into a problem, the living? We are supposed to be highly sophisticated, have evolved through measureless time, have had so many wars, five thousand wars, practically in five thousand years. We are educated. We are supposed to be highly developed human beings and yet this problem has not been solved at all, why human beings live perpetually in conflict. Not only in personal relationship but conflict with nature, with animals, everything has become a conflict, a problem. Why? 哦，上帝！ 我不是求上帝，你明白，这只是个短语。 为什么我们把生活，生命变成了一个问题？ 我们被认为是高度复杂的， 经过难以测量的时间的演化， 经历如此多的战争， 在五千年里有五千场战争。 我们被教育。 我们被认为是高度发展的人类， 但是这个问题根本没有被解决， 为什么人类永远生活在冲突中。 不只是个人关系，还有和自然的冲突， 和动物的，任何事都变成了冲突，变成一个问题。 为什么？
52:28 Please, let’s enquire together. I am not enquiring and you are listening, together, we are enquiring. Why, as a human being, why are you in conflict? Conflict being contradiction, imitation, conformity, the desire to become something all the time. This tremendous dissatisfaction, the search for the more, more and more and more. Why? Please enquire, sir. And so the monks all over the world have said, ‘The world is a tragedy, is a mess, is a misery, we are going to withdraw from it, and isolate ourselves in the worship of some image, some symbol and so on’. There, too, they have conflict. They deny sex, take vows of chastity and burn for the rest of their life with desire. And you go to the moon and stick a piece of flag, paper, cloth. This is what is happening all over the world. Why? Why is man, you, as a human being – please, you as a human being who represent, who are the rest of the world, you are not separate from other human beings because you suffer, you are anxious, uncertain, confused, frightened, pleasure, occasional beauty – every human being goes through this. So you are the rest of mankind, psychologically. You may have blond hair, pale skin, dark, black... So you are, actually, the rest of mankind. So, if you ask this question, you're not asking it as a selfish question, as a self-centred question, wanting to be free of a particular conflict, but you are asking this question as a human being who is the rest of mankind. So this conflict is global, not my conflict. Let’s be clear on this point. We're so identified with ourselves, separate from everything else, which is part of our neurosis, part of our illusion, but the actual psychological fact is, we are the rest of mankind. Because mankind goes through every kind of torture, travail, deception, dishonesty, tears, laughter, you know, the rest of the world is going through that and you are part of all that. You are the rest of humanity. You are humanity, not Mr Smith separate in a little corner. 请让我们一起探究。 不是我在探究，你在听， 而是我们一起探究。 为什么，作为人类，我们处于冲突中？ 冲突就是矛盾，模仿，遵从， 一直想变成什么的欲望。 巨大的不满足感， 寻找更多，更多，更多。 为什么？先生，请探究。 所以全世界的僧人都说， “世界是个悲剧，是巨大的混乱，是痛苦的， 我们要从中抽离，在对某些图像， 符号的崇拜中孤立自己。“ 他们也有冲突。 他们否定性，发誓守贞， 并且余生都被欲望灼烧。 而你去到月球，在上边插一片布。 这就是全世界发生的事。 为什么？为什么人类，你，作为一个人类—— 请注意，你是一个人类， 你代表了，其余整个的世界， 你和其他人类不是分离的， 因为你受苦，你焦虑， 不确定，困惑，恐惧，快乐， 偶尔的美丽——所有人类都经历这些。 所以心理上，你就是其他人类。 你也许有金头发， 白皮肤，暗皮肤，黑皮肤 所以事实上，你就是其他人类。 所以，如果你问这个问题， 你不是作为一个自私的， 自我中心的问题，来问， 想要摆脱特定的冲突， 而是你在作为一个代表 其他人类的人类，来问这个问题。 所以，冲突是全球性的，不是我的冲突。 让我们弄清这一点。 我们如此和我们自己相认同，而和其他所有人分离， 这就是我们的神经质，幻觉的一部分， 但是真正的心理事实是，我们就是其余人类。 因为人类经历了所有折磨，琐碎， 欺骗，不诚实，眼泪，欢笑，你知道的， 整个世界都在经历那些， 你就是那一切的一部分。 你就是其余人类。你就是人类， 不是史密斯先生，分隔在一个小角落。
57:22 And when you are asking this question, why human beings are in conflict, you're asking a tremendous question. Not, why I am in conflict, you are asking why human beings, who have lived over five, ten – I don’t know – million years and one or two human beings have solved it, the rest of mankind is caught in this travail. 当你问这个问题， 为什么人类处于冲突之中， 你在问一个巨大问题。 不是，为什么我在冲突中， 你在问为什么人类， 人类经历了五，十——我不知道—— 百万年，有一两个人解决了它， 而其他人类被困在琐碎之中。
58:12 And it's important to understand this, and to ask also whether it is at all possible to be utterly, totally, absolutely free of conflict. Not occasionally, not when you are looking at the mountain, and the beauty of the hills, and the shadows and the heavens, but in daily life. Why? 理解这一点很重要， 并且去问是否有可能 彻底地，完全地，绝对地，摆脱冲突。 不是偶尔地， 不是当你看着山峰的时候， 那山丘的美丽，阴影和天空， 而是在日常生活中。为什么？
59:10 Where there is contradiction, there must be conflict. Where there is division, there must be conflict. Physical division, as one nation opposed to another nation, one set of dogmas against another set of dogmas, one superstition opposed to another superstition, one conclusion opposed to another conclusion, one experience greater than the other experience. This constant division, contradiction, opposition, must invariably create conflict. That’s a law. Not my law. It is the law. And we all know this. You see the United Nations, you see what is happening in Russia and Afghanistan, all the horrors that are going on, one ideology opposed to other ideologies. And we have never solved this problem. Is it that we like to live in conflict? You say, 'Nature is in conflict', that's one of our favourite excuses. You see the bigger animal kill the smaller animal, you see one plant searching for light and the bigger tree shadowing it, there is constant struggle in nature – which the speaker questions. We call it conflict. We, with our own minds which are full of conflict, misery and all that, we say that nature is in conflict. But nature is not in conflict if you let it alone. You know all that. 哪里有矛盾，哪里必然有冲突。 哪里有分裂，哪里必然有冲突。 物理的分裂，例如一个国家反对另一个国家， 一种教条反对另一种教条， 一种迷信反对另一种迷信， 一个结论反对另一个结论， 一个体验高于其他体验。 这种持续不断的分裂，矛盾， 敌对，这必然导致冲突。 这是规律。不是我的规律，这就是规律。 并且我们都知道这些。你看到联合国， 你能看到俄罗斯和阿富汗在发生什么， 所有那些正在进行的恐怖的事， 一种意识形态反对另一种意识形态。 我们从未解决这个问题。 是我们喜欢生活在冲突之中吗？ 你说，”自然就处于冲突之中“，这是我们最喜欢的借口之一。 你看到大的动物，杀死小的动物， 你看到一个植物搜寻阳光， 而大树遮挡它， 自然里有持续不断的挣扎 ——演讲者质疑这一点。 我们称之为冲突。 我们，带着我们自己的意识，其中满是冲突， 不幸，等等一切，我们说自然是冲突的。 但是如果我们不管它，自然不处于冲突之中。 你知道那一切。
1:02:12 I have to stop now – just a minute – because they are changing the tape. We will go on after. Right? Sorry to keep you waiting. 现在我需要停下来——只是一分钟—— 因为他们在换录像带。 我们会继续。 对吗？抱歉让你们等待。
1:02:40 We are asking why human beings who have lived for millions and millions of years have tolerated, put up with, conflict. Is it habit? We have got used to this conflict, wars, the chicanery that is going on among the governments. Is it that we are so dull that we never challenge ourselves? And, if you are in conflict, we invent a thousand escapes from conflict, we have a marvellous network of escapes, from God to football – both are the same when you are escaping, one is not more noble than the other. 我们在问，为什么人类， 经历过数百万年之后， 忍受了冲突。 这是习惯吗？ 我们习惯了这种冲突，战争， 政府之间发生的诡计。 是我们太迟钝，因而从不挑战自我吗？ 并且，如果你处于冲突中， 我们发明了一千种逃避冲突的方式， 我们有惊人的逃避的网络， 从上帝到足球——当你在逃避时，二者是一样的， 一个并不比另一个高级。
1:04:08 And can we find out now, this morning, talking over as two friends, friends who are concerned with this issue, resolve it, which means not take time? See our conflict. That is, each one of us is so self-centred, each one of us is so concerned about himself: his happiness, his fulfilment, his sorrow, his escape, his belief, all this he is clinging to. That is, where there is attachment there must be conflict. It’s a fact. If I am attached to my Hinduism, I'm frightened to let go because I don’t know what will happen, I want to be certain. And also, being uncertain, being self-centred, I want to become something, become nobler, be successful in this world, more money, more pleasure, more insurance, go from one concept of God, a saviour, to another. And, being self-centred, and my wife is also being self-centred, naturally, there must be conflict. This is inevitable. Right? I am seeking my fulfilment through sex, through – oh, so many things, and she's also doing the same. So, they are two separate entities – at least, they think they are separate – with their tremendous urges, reactions, prejudices, brutalities, ambition, be something at any price. How can these two opposing, contradictory human beings be free from this toil, from this conflict? They can never be, never, either in heaven or in other places. How can they? You understand? This is so obvious. But the obvious we generally deny because it is simple. We want something complex, something we can study, analyse, discuss, you know, play around. We can never see something obvious, simple, and say, ‘Look, let’s deal with it. Let’s find out if one can be really, deeply not self-centred.’ All our education, all our religious aspirations, and all that encourages this self-centredness. You are going to be saved – you know, the whole monstrous, religious attitude, organised religious attitude, is encouraging this. The Indians have it in their particular way, and the Christians, the Buddhists, the whole world. 今天早上，我们能发现， 像两个朋友一样聊天， 关心这个问题的朋友， 解决它吗？这意味着不花费时间。 看到我们的冲突。也就是， 我们每一个人都是自我中心的， 我们每一个人都如此关心自己： 他的快乐，他的满足，他的悲伤， 他的逃避，他的信仰，所有那些他依附的东西。 也就是，哪里有依赖，哪里必然有冲突。 这是一个事实。如果我依赖我的印度教义， 我害怕放手， 因为我不知道会发生什么， 我想要确定性。 同样，（我是）不确定，自我中心的， 我想要变成什么， 变得更高级，变得在世界上更成功， 更有钱，更快乐，更保险， 从一个上帝，救世主的概念，到另一个。 并且，（我是）自我中心的，我的妻子也是自我中心的， 自然地，其中必然有冲突。 这是无可避免的。对吗？ 我通过性，通过许多事，追求自己的满足， 她也是一样。 所以，这是两个分离的个体 ——至少，他们认为他们是分离的—— 带着他们巨大的渴望，反应，偏见，残忍， 野心，不计任何代价变成什么。 这样两个相互对立，矛盾的人类， 如何能摆脱劳苦，摆脱这种冲突？ 他们从未做到，不管是在天堂还是其他地方。 他们如何做到？你明白吗？这很显然。 但是显然我们一般会拒绝，因为他太简单了。 我们想要复杂的事物， 一些我们可以学习，分析，讨论，玩耍的东西，你知道的。 我们从不简单的，看这个显然的事物， 然后说，“让我们处理它。 让我们发现，一个人是否能真正的，深刻的，不自我中心。” 我们所有的教育，所有的宗教的鼓舞， 所有那些，都在鼓励自我中心。 你将会被拯救 ——你知道，整个宗教的态度， 有组织的宗教的态度，在鼓励这一点。 印度人有他们自己的方式， 天主教徒，佛教徒，整个世界。
1:09:25 So, the fact is where there is division there must be conflict! If one sees the truth of it, the actuality of it, that is, I want to fulfil my desire and she does too, so my desire is opposed to her desire. We don’t tackle desire. You understand what I am saying? We try to fulfil my desire as opposed to her desire. Whereas the understanding of desire is important, not my fulfilment of my desire. Vous avez compris? Have we communicated this to each other? We are concerned with desire, not my desire. Is this all right? May I go on? So this identity with my particular experience, my particular desire, my particular fear, fear of my particular death, so this identity with an idea, you understand? Or identity with some actual fact, like I have pain, I have a toothache. All right, I have a toothache, get on with it! You follow? But not the everlasting concern about oneself! 所以，事实是哪里有分裂，哪里就必然有冲突！ 如果一个人看到其中的真相，真实， 也就是，我想满足自己的欲望，她也是， 所以我的欲望反对她的欲望。我们不解决欲望。 你明白我在说什么吗？ 我们努力满足自己的与她的欲望相反的欲望。 然而理解欲望是重要的， 而不是满足我的欲望。 你明白了吗？我们在彼此交流吗？ 我们关心欲望，不是我的欲望。 对吗？我可以继续吗？ 所以这种和我特定经验，欲望，恐惧， 对我的特定死亡的恐惧的认同， 所以这种认同带着观点，你明白吗？ 或者和某些事实认同，例如我很痛， 我牙疼。是的，我牙疼， 请继续！你明白吗？ 永无止境地关心我自己！
1:11:34 You see the truth of this, that where there is separation, there must be conflict – Arab and Jew, what is happening. The earth is ours to live upon, to share, it is our earth, not the Arab world and, you know, for God’s sake! And, apparently, we don’t see that. So, can we perceive the truth of it – truth, the actual fact, not the theory that separations will bring conflict, but the actual feeling, the truth of it? Can you feel it, see it? Not the intellectual concept of seeing, the intellectual comprehension that division must inevitably create conflict, but the actual fact of it. 你看到了其中的真相， 也就是，哪里有分裂，哪里必然有冲突 ——阿拉伯人和犹太人，正在发生的（冲突）。 地球是供我们居住，分享的，它是我们的地球， 不是阿拉伯世界，等等，你知道的，上帝啊！ 显然，我们没有看到这一点。 所以，我们可以看到其中的真相——真相，事实， 不是”分裂带来冲突“的理论， 而是真实的感觉，它的真相吗？ 你能感受到它，看到它吗？ 不是智力的看的概念， 智力上的理解， 说分裂必然会带来冲突， 而是其中的真相。
1:13:05 If a group of people see it, who are still part of humanity, they will… I mean it's like a tremendous movement taken in a totally different direction. But, apparently, we cannot do this. And out of this comes misery, conflict, confusion, problems, endlessly. 如果一群人看到它，我们是人类的一部分， 他们会……我的意思是，那就像一个巨大的运动， 采取了彻底不同的方向。 但是，显然，我们不能做到。 而从此之中，诞生了无尽的苦难，冲突， 困惑，问题。
1:13:43 You know, the speaker has been saying for the last sixty years that truth is a pathless land, which is a fact. There's no path to it, no saviour to it, no leader, no system, nothing, but the understanding of the fact that truth has no path. If you see that, if you see also, very clearly, for yourself that any form of division must, inevitably, create conflict. From this, the question arises, we live in a society whose laws, governments, religions are all struggling against each other in the world, wanting to be more powerful than anybody else. This is our cycle, this is our culture and this culture has been like this for a million years. In ancient Egypt, five thousand years ago, they were trying to be supreme over everybody else, and we are carrying that same pattern through life. 你知道，演讲者已经讲了六十年， 说”真理是无路之国“，这是一个事实。 没有道路，没有救世主通向它， 没有领袖，没有系统，什么都没有， 但是对”真理是无路之国“这个事实的理解。 如果你看到它，如果你非常清楚地，为自己看到， 任何形式的分裂，必然造成冲突。 从这一点，这个问题诞生了， 我们生活在一个法律，政府，宗教都在 挣扎着反对彼此的，想要比他人更大的权利 的社会和世界。 这是我们的循环，我们的文化， 这种文化已经这样一百万年了。 在古老的埃及，五千年前， 我们就试图凌驾于所有人之上， 整个一生，我们都带着同样的模式。
1:15:44 So, what shall we do? What will you, as a human being who is actually the rest of mankind, what will you do? You hear something true, which is fact, a physical fact, the Arab and the Jew, you opposed to somebody else, you with your belief, with your experience, with your knowledge, opposed to somebody else with his knowledge, you follow? Conflict. What will you do? If one sees, or when you see the truth that division, in any form, is destructive, and the world is caught in this destructiveness, what’s your relationship with the world? And somebody comes along, takes your property or this or that, and so creates conflict, what is your action? You understand all this? Are we together in understanding it, verbally even, what we are talking about? 所以，我们要做什么？ 我们，作为一个人类， 也就是整个人类，要做什么？ 你听到一些真实的事实，一些事实， 一个物理事实，阿拉伯和犹太人，反对彼此， 你带着你的信仰，你的经验，知识， 反对另一个人和他的知识， 你明白吗？冲突。你会做什么？ 如果一个人看到，或者当你看到真相， 也就是任何形式的分裂，都是破坏性的， 这个世界就是陷在这种破坏性之中， 那你和世界的关系是怎样的？ 有人来了，拿走了你的财富， 这个或者那个，所以创造了冲突， 你的行动是什么？ 你明白吗？ 我们在共同理解，即使是语言的， 我们在谈论什么吗？
1:17:40 So, can you, when you leave this grove, be free of conflict? And it's only a person that is free from conflict that can meet conflict – you understand? – not the person who is in conflict, he merely perpetuates more conflict, but a human being who is free from conflict he can meet it, legally, in any way, because he, himself, is free from this torture. 所以，你能，当你离开这个小树林时，摆脱冲突吗？ 只有一个摆脱冲突的人， 才能面对冲突——你明白吗？—— 不是陷在冲突中的人， 他只会延续更多的冲突， 但是一个摆脱冲突的人， 他可以面对它，合法的，以任何方式， 因为他，他本身，摆脱了这种折磨。
1:18:36 Fifth Question: 'You have said' – can I go on? 'You have said that when one gives complete attention to a problem then the problem flowers and withers away. Can you explain this further?' 第四个问题：”你说过“——我们可以继续吗？ ”你说过，当一个人给予一个问题完全的关注时， 那个问题就会绽放，然后枯萎。 你可以进一步解释这一点吗？“
1:18:55 You aren’t tired? 你们不累吗？
1:18:56 Questioner: No. 提问者：不。
1:18:58 K: You're quite sure? This is not an entertainment. You don’t get tired with entertainment. Sorry! 克：你们确定？这不是一种娱乐。 你不会对娱乐感到累。抱歉！
1:19:12 'You have said that when one gives complete attention to a problem then the problem flowers and withers away. Can you explain this further?' ”你说过，当一个人给予一个问题完全的关注时， 那个问题会绽放，然后枯萎。 你可以进一步解释这一点吗？“
1:19:23 Now, there is this problem of conflict. Can you watch your conflict and give it complete attention? Please, just listen to it for a few minutes. Listen. You have a problem, which is conflict. Can you look at it, not only listen to the problem, the tones, the content, the subtleties of the problem, can you look at it without trying to resolve it, without trying to give it any direction, without any motive? When you have a motive, it gives it a direction and, therefore, you are distorting the problem. Vous avez compris? So, can you sensitively be aware of conflict? Not act upon it because you are part of that conflict. You are conflict. So, if you act upon it, you are further creating more conflict. I wonder – vous avez compris? So, look at that conflict – the little one and the whole human conflict, the personal and the global, look at it. Listen to its story. Don’t you tell what the story is, let it tell you the story. Like a child who is sitting on your lap, whom you love, is telling you a story. You don’t interrupt the child. You're not rude to it, you want him to tell you all about it. In the same way, let this conflict tell you all about it, only you have to have ears to listen to it, not only with the hearing of the ear, but also hear, inwardly, the nature of it. Can you so listen to it, giving your whole attention to it, without any effort? When you are with a child who is telling you a story, you are not making an effort, saying, ‘I must control myself, I must be more patient’. You are listening because you love that child. In the same way, listen, and then you will see the problem flowers, grows, it shows its whole content. And when it has shown all its content, it passes away, it's finished. You understand? That is the flowering and the withering of a problem, which doesn’t take time. It's only the impatient mind that has time, that says, 'I must solve this'. But a mind that is listening very carefully, sensitively, alert to all its tiny movements, and to its very, very subtle movements, when you listen to it, when you give your complete attention to it. And you cannot give complete attention if you have a motive, if you have a direction, if you say, 'I must do this', then nothing will happen. But if you give your total attention the problem shows itself fully and so dissolves, like a flower. In the morning the bud is there, in the evening it is withered. 现在，有冲突的问题。 你能看着你的冲突，给它完全的关注吗？ 请注意，不要只是听几分钟。听。 你有一个冲突的问题。 你可以看着它，不只是聆听那个问题， 它的内容和微妙之处， 你能看着它，不尝试解决它， 不尝试给它任何方向，没有任何动机吗？ 当你有一个动机，动机给它一个方向， 因此，你就扭曲了那个问题。 你明白吗？ 所以，你可以敏感地觉察冲突吗？ 不是对它采取行动，因为你就是冲突的一部分。 你就是冲突。 所以，如果你对它采取行动，你就在制造进一步的冲突。 我想知道——你明白了吗？ 所以，看着那个冲突—— 小冲突和整个人类的冲突， 个人的和全球的，看着它。 倾听它的故事。 不是你来说故事如何，而是让它告诉你。 就像一个坐在你膝盖上的，你喜爱的孩子， 在给你讲故事。 你不会打断那个孩子。 你不想对他粗鲁，你想让他告诉你所有一切。 同样的，让这个冲突告诉你关于它的一切， 你只需要用耳朵去听， 不只是用外在的耳朵， 还有内在的，听到它的本质。 你可以这样聆听它，给予你全部的关注， 而没有任何努力吗？ 当你和一个给你讲故事的孩子在一起， 你没有努力，你不会说， “我必须控制自己，我必须更耐心。” 你在聆听，因为你爱那个孩子。 同样的，聆听，然后你会看到问题绽放， 生长，它展示了它全部的内容。 而当它展示了它全部的内容， 它就过去了，结束了。你明白吗？ 这就是问题的绽放和枯萎， 这不需要时间。 只有没有耐心的意识需要时间， 它说，“我必须解决它”。 但是一个非常认真，敏感地聆听， 对它所有微细的运动都警觉的意识， 对它非常，非常微妙的运动警觉， 当你聆听它，当你给予你全部的注意力。 而你不能给予全部的注意力， 如果你有一个动机，有一个方向， 如果你说，“我必须做这个”，那么什么都不会发生。 但是如果你给予你全部的注意力， 问题充分地展示自己，然后消失了，就像一朵花。 清晨花苞还在，到夜晚它就枯萎了。
1:24:49 I think that is enough for this morning, isn’t it? Is it enough? 我认为今早的内容已经足够了，是吗？ 够了吗？
1:24:55 Q: Yes. 问：是的。