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OJ81T3 - 思想可以带来正确的行动吗？
第三次公开演讲，欧亥，美国，1981年5月9日



0:20 It may be necessary to briefly repeat what we have said during the last two talks. We were saying that this is not a propaganda, of ideas, some kind of belief, or some philosophical conclusions, nor some religion, as accepted by that word generally. But we are trying to observe together what is happening in the world. It is not a particular point of view the speaker is putting forward, or personal recollections, experience and all that kind of nonsense. We are together, and the speaker means together, to observe clearly, without any prejudice, without identifying oneself with any particular part of the world, or with any belief, religious dogma, and so on, to observe the enormous violence that's going on in the world, the wars, the threat of the atomic bomb, the religious divisions, the nationalistic separation with their armaments and so on. It’s a very dangerous world we are living in. And most people, I'm afraid, do not realise the enormous degradation, degeneration that is going on throughout the world, not only in this part of the world but everywhere. And we are trying to solve these problems politically, economically, socially, or evangelistically, which, of course, brings about more and more confusion, more and more separation, greater division and therefore greater conflict. 或许有必要简单重复一下， 我们上两次谈话说到的内容。 我们说这不是在宣传 某种观点，某种信仰， 或者一些心理的结论， 也不是通常意义上的宗教。 而是我们尝试去共同观察， 这个世界上在发生什么。 这不是演讲者提出的 特定视角的观察， 或是我个人的回忆、经验， 还有其他所有那些废话。 我们在一起，演讲者的意思是一起， 去没有偏见地清楚地观察， 不把自我和世界的任何特定部分相认同， 或者认同任何信仰，宗教的教条，等等， 去观察这个世界上正在发生的巨大的暴力， 战争，原子弹的恐怖威胁， 宗教的分裂，国家主义的分裂 带着它们的武器，等等。 我们生活的世界十分危险。 而大多数人，我担心，并没有认识到这巨大的退化， 整个世界都在发生退化， 不只是在世界的这一个角落，而是所有地方。 我们尝试在政治层面，经济层面， 社会层面，或者通过传福音来解决这些问题， 显然，这些只带来了越来越多的困惑， 越来越多的区分， 越来越深的分裂，和越来越多的冲突。
3:55 And we said, neither politics, nor the established religions, nor the scientific knowledge is going to solve our problems, nor the psychologists, nor the priests, nor the specialists but the crisis is in our consciousness, that is, in our minds, in our hearts, in our behaviour, in our way of looking at the world from a narrow, limited point of view. That's where the crisis is. 我们说，政治，现有建立起来的宗教， 科学知识，心理学家，牧师， 专家，都不能解决我们的问题， 危机是在我们的意识之中， 在我们的头脑，心灵之中， 在我们的行动，在我们从一个狭小， 有限的点，看待这个世界的方式之中。 这就是危机所在之处。
4:52 And together we are going to explore, together investigate if it is at all possible for the human mind which has evolved through millions and millions of years, conditioned by time and evolution, whether such a mind, limited, such a brain, conditioned, wether this consciousness, which is limited, narrow, exclusive, apparently, whether that consciousness with its crisis in the present world can ever be changed, can ever bring about a radical mutation in that conditioning. 而我们要一起探索， 一起探索经过数百万年演化的人类的头脑， 被时间和演化制约， 这样的受限的，局限的头脑， 这个意识， 显然是受限的， 狭窄的，排他性的意识， 这个意识和它在现在这个世界上的危机， 能否改变，能否在这种局限中， 发生根本性的突变。
6:03 And we also said, this consciousness with which we have identified ourselves, as mine and yours, is utterly erroneous because our consciousness is the consciousness of mankind. Man, wherever he is – including the woman, of course – wherever he is, Japan, India, Middle East, Europe or here, is in constant travail, in conflict, never resolving any problems of fear, pursuing endless pleasure, never resolving the problems of sorrow, pain, grief, loneliness. This loneliness, grief, pain, sorrow, with occasional flashes of joy and love, is common to all mankind. That's an obvious psychological fact which most of us are reluctant to see because we are so identified with our own particular consciousness, with our own particular grief, with our own particular enjoyment and so on. But the actual psychological fact is, if you observe attentively, with sensitive awareness, that throughout the world human beings go through exactly what you are going through – whether they live in the north or the south, east or west. So this consciousness is common to all mankind. I think this should be clearly understood. There is no contradiction about it. It is not a point of view, something the speaker has invented, but, psychologically, when you examine very deeply, objectively, not personally, one finds that this is the common ground to all mankind. One may not like to hear this because we all think we are individuals, separate from everybody else. trying to identify ourselves with something, trying to fulfil, trying to become something – all individualistic, narrow, limited. But the psychological fact is that we are not individuals. We are the collective. We are the result of millions and millions of years, our consciousness is the common consciousness of all humanity. Your consciousness is the consciousness of man. And if we do not understand this very clearly one is apt to not continue with the investigation clearly. 我们也说，我们把我们自身， 和这个意识相认同，也就是我和你的意识， 是一个彻底的错误， 因为我们的意识，是人类的意识。 人，不管他在哪——当然也包括女人—— 不管他在日本，印度，中东，欧洲或者这里， 都一直在苦苦挣扎，处于冲突之中， 从未解决任何恐惧的问题， 永无止境地追求快感， 从未解决悲伤，痛苦，孤独的问题。 孤独，痛苦，悲伤， 偶尔闪过的一丝喜悦和爱，这是全人类共有的。 这显然是一个心理事实， 我们绝大多数都不愿意看到， 因为我们是如此认同于我们自己特定的意识， 我们自己特定的痛苦， 我们自己特定的享受，等等。 但是，事实的心理事实是， 如果你带着敏感的觉察和关注去观察， 全世界的人类， 都经历了你经历的东西 ——不管他们生活在北方，南方，东方或西方。 所以这个意识是全人类共有的。 我认为这需要被清楚地理解。 这一点没有什么矛盾之处。 这不是演讲者发明的 某种角度的观点， 而是，心理上，当你深刻地探究， 客观地，不是个人化地， 一个人会发现这是所有人类的共通点。 一个人也许不喜欢听到这些， 因为我们都认为我们是个体， 和所有其他人相分离， 努力把我们自己和某事认同， 努力去填满，努力变成某事 ——这都是个人主义，狭窄，受限的。 但是心理事实是，我们不是个体。 我们是集体。 我们是数百万年时间的结果， 我们的意识是所有人类共同的意识。 你的意识是人类的意识。 如我们不能清楚地理解这一点， 一个人很容易无法继续清楚地探究。
10:32 In the world, wherever one lives, this sense of individuality has been emphasised. Religions have sustained it, education has maintained it. And this supposedly individual freedom has brought about extraordinary chaos in the world, which is a fact, which again is not a certain conclusion, or a point of view of the speaker, but one can see this clearly. We think we are free because we can choose. And choice implies uncertainty, lack of clarity. Where there is clarity, which can only come about when there is no conflict, such clarity has no choice. It is clear. It is only the mind that is obscure, confused, uncertain, that begins to choose. Again, please, investigate this as we go along. And, if one may request, we are not laying down the law. We are not leading you anywhere. we are actually thinking together, not accepting, not following. In matters of the spirit, in the matters of deep psychological investigation one must be free from all sense of following somebody. There is no leader, or a guide, into that realm. One has to watch, observe, see for oneself very clearly, what one is. Not according to any philosopher, any psychotherapist, or psychologist, they too are human beings. And they too go through pain, sorrow, anxiety, uncertainty, desperate loneliness and so on. So they, too, are part of this confusion. They, too, have this common consciousness. 在这个世界，不管我们居住在哪， 个体感都在被强调。 宗教保持它，教育在保持它。 所谓的个人自由， 已经给这个世界带来了巨大的混乱， 这是一个事实，不是某种结论， 或者演讲者的观点， 而是一个人可以清楚地看到这一点。 我们认为我们是自由的，因为我们可以选择。 选择意味着不确定，缺乏清晰。 哪里有清晰， 只有没有冲突时，它才会出现， 这种清晰没有选择。它是清楚的。 只有模糊的，混乱的， 不确定的意识，才会开始选择。 同样，请注意，我们在一同探究。 如果我可以指出来，我们不是在制定法律。 我们不是要引领你去任何地方， 我们真的是在一同思考， 不是接受，不是跟随。 在精神领域， 在深刻的心理探究的领域， 一个人必须摆脱任何追随某人的想法。 没有领导者，或者进入那个领域的向导。 一个人必须观察，为他自己清楚地看到，他是什么。 不是依据任何哲学家， 任何心理治疗师或者心理学家， 他们也是人类。 他们也经历了痛苦，悲伤，焦虑， 不确定，令人绝望的孤独，等等。 所以他们也是这种困惑的一部分。 他们也有这种共同的意识。
14:02 And if one realises this actual fact, not imposed upon you by another, or by the speaker, but you, yourself, clearly, objectively, non-personally or emotionally observe, this is the common fact that we are the rest of mankind, psychologically. You may have a different body, woman, man, you may be lighter skin, another darker, slant-eyed and so on, but inwardly, deeply, we go through the same phenomenon as the rest of man. This is logical. This is reasonable. This has sanity. And if one understands this very deeply, perceives this fact, then we are totally responsible for whatever is happening in the world. 如果一个人真的认识到这个事实， 不是被另一个人或者演讲者所强加， 而是你，你自己，清楚地，客观地， 非个人化地，或者情绪化地看到，这个共同的事实， 也就是心理上我们就是其他人类。 你也许有不同的身体，男人或女人， 你也许皮肤浅一点，另一个人深一点，斜眼等等， 但是内在，深刻的层面，我们经历了同样的现象， 就像其他所有人类。 这是符合逻辑的，是合理的，是理智的。 如果一个人深刻地理解了这一点，看到这个事实， 那么，我们就要对这个世界上正在 发生的事，彻底地负责。
15:23 Please understand the seriousness of these talks. This is not an entertainment, an amusement, intellectual concepts or a verbal oratory. We are dealing with something terribly serious. Human beings throughout the world are degenerating, destroying themselves. 请理解这个演讲的严肃性。 这不是一种娱乐， 智力的概念，或者口头演说。 我们在处理一件及其严肃的事。 全世界的人类都在退化， 都在摧毁他们自身。
16:05 And, as we've said, this is the common factor and therefore, we are totally, absolutely responsible for whatever is happening in the world. Because we are nationalistic, wanting to be the first country in the world, we are creating war, competition. And competition is destroying people. So we are talking about something dreadfully serious. 同样，就像我们说的，这是一个共同的因素， 因此，我们彻底地，绝对地，对 世界上发生的一切负有责任。 因为我们是国家主义的， 想成为世界第一的国家， 我们在制造战争，竞争。 而竞争正在毁灭人类。 所以我们在一同讨论一些及其严肃的事。
17:00 And this consciousness, in which there is the crisis, and nowhere else, is put together by thought. Our consciousness, with its content, is the product of thought. Thought has accepted the propaganda of two thousand years in the western world, religiously, and in the eastern world thought created an image, certain rituals, as in the West, certain symbols. And that thought, with all its religious, superstitious, dogmatic belief in faith and so on, is put together by thought. Again, this cannot be refuted, this is reasonable – and one can see the limitation of reason, but one must have the capacity to reason very clearly. 这个意识， ——危机就在其中而非其他任何地方—— 是由思想构成的。 我们的意识以及它的内容， 是思想的产物。 思想接受了西方世界 两千年的，宗教的宣传， 而在东方世界，思想创造了一个意象， 某些仪式，就像在西方世界，思想创造了符号。 而那个思想，和它所有的宗教的，迷信的，教条的 信仰等等，都是思想的产物。 同样，这无法反驳， 这是合理的——一个人能看到理性的局限， 但是一个人必须有非常清楚地理性思考的能力。
18:34 So thought has built this world, the psychological, as well as the technical world. Thought has brought about the relationship between man and woman. In that relationship, there is a great deal of conflict. We have been saying this for a number of years and we are pursuing, investigating together. Please be clear on this point, if you do not mind. We are together, not the speaker is exploring, explaining, putting into words, but together, you and the speaker, are exploring why man – supposed to be educated, sophisticated, clever, solving problems – why man has come to this point after so many million years. He's in perpetual conflict within and without. He's confused, neurotic, believing something that is non-real, holding on to certain concepts, and ideals for which he's willing to kill. This may have been the process of time, evolution, which has brought us up to this point. And philosophers and others say, ‘You must accept human conditioning, you must accept what you are. You can modify it. You can somewhat superficially change but deeply, at the very depth of one’s existence, it is not possible for this conditioning to be radically changed. Therefore modify, live as best as you can, make the best of this world, however miserable one is, accept it and try to live within that area without too much conflict.' But we are saying that this conditioning, this crisis in consciousness, can bring about a radical transformation. Please, do not accept what the speaker is saying but investigate it, think over it, observe it. 所以，思想构建了这个世界， 这个心理的，还有技术的世界。 思想构建了 男人和女人的关系。 在那种关系中，有大量的冲突。 我们已经谈论这些，谈论了数年， 而我们在一起探究。 请弄清楚这一点，如果你不介意。 我们在一起，不是演讲者在探索，解释， 付诸文字，而是一起，你和演讲者， 一起探究，为什么人类——被认为是受过教育的， 复杂的，聪明的，在解决问题的—— 为什么人类在数百万年之后，走到了这一步。 他处于不断的内在和外在的冲突中。 他困惑，神经质， 信仰某些不真实的东西， 坚持某些概念， 某些理想，为此他愿意去杀戮。 这也许是时间的过程， 演化，把人类带到了这一步。 而心理学家和其他人说， “你必须接受人类的制约， 你必须接受你是什么。 你可以调整它。你可以在表面某些地方改变， 但是深层次，在一个人存在的最深处， 这种制约不可能 彻底地改变。 因此，调整，尽可能活得好一点， 尽可能让世界变好，不管它是多么悲惨， 接受它，尽量活在那个领域， 而没有过多的冲突。” 但是我们说，这个制约， 这个意识中的危机， 可以发生彻底地转变。 请不要接受演讲者所说的， 而是探究它，思考它，观察它。
22:10 And the speaker also says, don’t follow anybody, especially in the realm of the psyche, neither the Indian gurus, nor westernised gurus, nor the so-called meditations that these people have invented, taken the old forms and put it into new words. And people, being gullible as a whole, wanting to be secure in some place or other, easily accept all this nonsense. So, please – the speaker repeats it over and over again – do not be influenced by the speaker, do not agree with the speaker, do not be influenced by him but observe the world actually as it is. Observe it without any direction, without any motive, without any prejudice. Look at it. 演讲者也说，不要追随任何人， 尤其是在心灵的领域， 不管是印度的大师，还是西方的大师， 还是这些人发明的所谓的冥想， 采用旧的形式又赋予它新的词语。 而人们整体上太轻信了， 想在某些方面获得安全， 轻易地接受了所有这些废话。 所以，请——演讲者要一遍一遍得重复—— 不要被演讲者影响， 不要同意演讲者， 不要被他影响， 而是观察这个世界真实的样子。 观察它而没有任何方向，没有任何动机， 没有任何偏见。看着它。
23:45 And this consciousness, as we said, is put together by thought. Thought is a material process. Thought has built marvellous architecture, buildings, the most beautiful architecture, paintings, poems, statuary. Thought has not created nature, but thought can destroy nature. Thought has not made the tiger, that beautiful, dynamic animal. Thought has not made the rivers, the mountains, the heavens, but thought can despoil them. So one must clearly understand the nature of thought because thought has put together the content of our consciousness, and as the crisis is there, thought must be very carefully investigated – what is thinking. Because all our action is based on thinking. That is, our action is born out of knowledge, out of experience, out of accumulated knowledge and memory, stored up in the brain. And thought is part of that memory, part of that knowledge, part of that experience. And as experience and knowledge can never, under any circumstances, be complete, therefore thought invariably, under all conditions, is limited. 这个意识，就如我们所说的，是由思想构成的。 思想是物质的过程。 思想造就了奇妙的，美丽的 建筑物，绘画，诗歌，雕像。 思想没有创造自然， 但是思想可以破坏自然。 思想没有创造出老虎， 那些美丽，富有活力的动物。 思想没有创造那些河流，山峰，天空， 但是思想可以毁灭它们。 所以一个人必须清楚地理解思想的本质， 因为思想构成了我们意识的内容， 而危机就在其中， 思想必须被仔细地调查 ——思想是什么。 因为我们所有的行为都基于思想。 也就是，我们的行动诞生于知识， 经验，储存在脑子里的， 积累的知识和记忆。 思想是记忆的一部分， 是知识，经验的一部分。 而经验和知识，永远， 在任何情况下，都是不完整的， 因此思想无可避免的处于所有制约之中，是受限的。
26:18 And thought is not sacred. The things that thought has created in the temples, in the mosques, in the cathedrals, in the churches, they are the result of thought. They are nothing sacred. So, we are going, as we go along, in the next three talks, find out if there is anything sacred in life, not put there by thought. Thought, as we said, is a material process. Even the scientists are beginning to accept that. Of course, the religious people will not. They are, may be, the majority but the majority is generally mediocre. And a religious mind can only find out what is sacred and to find that out there must be meditation and that meditation the speaker puts at the end of his talks because meditation, without the understanding of the world and of oneself, has no meaning. Meditation then is merely an escape from ‘what is’. And without order in our life, complete, absolute order, meditation is a form of indulgence in some pleasurable and neurotic action. 思想不是神圣的。 思想在庙宇， 清真寺，教堂中创造的事物， 它们都是思想的结果。它们不是神圣的。 所以，我们要一起，在接下来的三次谈话中， 发现生活中是否有任何神圣的事， 不是由思想构成的。 思想，就像我们说的，是物质的过程。 即使是科学家，也开始接受这一点。 当然，宗教人士不会。 他们，也许是大多数， 但是大多数通常是平庸的。 而宗教意识可以发现什么是神圣的， 去发现它，就必须有冥想， 演讲者把那种冥想放在了他演讲的最后， 因为没有对世界，对自己的理解， 冥想没有任何意义。 那样冥想就只是对“事实之是”的逃避。 没有我们生活中的秩序，彻底的，绝对的秩序， 冥想就是一种形式的，沉浸在某种令人舒适的， 神经质中的行动。
28:44 So we must first look and find out for ourselves if there is right action, under all circumstances. Can thought bring about this action, right action? And we mean by that word ‘right’, a precise, objective, non-personal, non-romantic action that does not bring about more and more conflict. We are going to investigate together if there is such right action. Because now each one thinks that the fulfilment of one’s desires, of one’s pleasures without any restraint, without any sense of understanding, that is right action – according to present, modern civilisation. But such action, as one has observed, leads to more and more conflict, more and more chaos, which is what is happening on this unfortunate earth. 所以，我们必须首先看，并且为我们自己发现， 是否存在一种在任何环境下都正确的行为。 思想可以带来这种正确的行为吗？ 通过“正确”这个词，我们的意思是， 准确的，客观的，非个人的，不是浪漫化的， 不会带来越来越多冲突的行为。 我们要一同探索， 是否存在这样正确的行为。 因为现在我们每个人只考虑满足我们个人的欲望， 我们的快感，而没有任何限制， 没任何理解， 这就是现代文明所谓的正确的行动。 但是这样的行动，正如一个人观察到的， 导致了越来越多的冲突和混乱， 这正是这个不幸的地球上发生着的。
30:46 So, we are asking, what is action and what is right, accurate, precise, an action that does not bring about conflict? Is there such action at all? 所以，我们问什么是行动，还有什么是正确， 准确，精确，不会带来冲突的行动？ 存在这样的行动吗？
31:18 All right? It’s a lovely morning. To be under the trees is a beautiful thing – dappled light, you are looking at those mountains, with their purity, and the line so delicate, so defined and pure. And living with all that in this marvellous country, which is being slowly despoiled and ruined. Man – who should be the most extraordinary, excellent entity – has brought about such chaos in the world. It is a great tragedy, of which we are not aware, because we are not aware of our own selves, we are not aware of our actions. We are being led perpetually by politicians, the priest, the evangelist, the professors, the specialists. We are not self-educated. We are educated according to a pattern, which is no education at all, which is only a part of education. The deeper education is self-education, the understanding of oneself, the knowing of the whole content of oneself. And to observe that content of oneself it is shown in relationship, as we talked about the other day. In that relationship there is conflict, because that conflict arises when each one thinks he's separate, ambitious, greedy, competitive, all the rest of it, attached to a belief, to a dogma, to a person, to an ideal, to an experience. And such attachment does breed corruption, which we carefully explained the other day. 对吗？ 这是一个可爱的早晨。 坐在树下是一件美丽的事 ——斑驳的光，你看着那些山峰， 带着它们的纯洁， 它们的线条如此细腻纯粹。 在这个神奇的国家里和这些生活在一起， 而它们在被慢慢掠夺，毁坏。 人类——应当是最杰出，优秀的实体—— 在这个世界上带来了如此多的混乱。 这是一个巨大的悲剧，而我们并不清楚， 因为我们不清楚我们自己， 我们不清楚我们自己的行动。 我们永远被政治家，被牧师引导， 传福音者，教授，专家。 我们从没自我教育。 我们依据某个模式被教育， 而那根本不是教育，那只是教育的一部分。 更深层的教育是自我教育， 理解我自己， 知道我自己的整个内容。 去观察我自己的内容， 就像我们那几天说的，它会展示在关系中。 在那种关系中，有冲突， 因为当一个人认为他是分离的， 富有野心的，贪婪的，竞争的，等等，冲突就会发生， 当他依附于一种信念，教条，一个人， 一个理想，一种经验。 这种依附也带来了腐败， 那些天我们仔细地解释了这一点。
34:25 And now we are asking if there is right action at all – not superficial, not something immediate, satisfactory, but an action that is not born of time. I’ll explain what I mean by that. This may lead to some kind of mystical, science-fiction action, we're not talking about that. One must understand what time is. For most of us, time is very important, not only sunrise and sunset, yesterday, today and tomorrow, time by the watch, time by the sun, but also the whole concept of psychological time. 现在，我们问，是否有正确的行动 ——不是表面的，不是即刻的，令人满意的行动， 而是不是诞生于时间的行动。 我会解释我的意思是什么。 这也许会导向某些神秘的，科幻的行动， 我们不是在讨论那些。 一个人必须理解时间是什么。 对我们绝大多数人，时间是非常重要的， 不只是日出和日落， 昨天，今天和明天， 钟表的时间，太阳的时间， 而是整个心理时间的概念。
35:47 Our brain, if you are sensitively aware, our brain has evolved through time, from the one cell up to now. This brain functions in time, it's conditioned by time. Right? That is clear. And we use time as a means of self-advancement, time as a means of learning a language, time as a means of accumulating knowledge in order to act skilfully or not. So time is a factor, a very deep conditioned factor in our life. There is hope – the future, which is hope – and time as the past, with all the memories, experiences. And knowledge is of time, whether it is scientific knowledge or psychological knowledge, or self-knowledge, it’s all within the area of time. When one says, ‘I will be better’, ‘I will not be this but I will be that’, that involves time. Please understand. Let’s think and observe together. You are not merely listening to the speaker who is advancing any set of ideas which you gather, then remember, then say, ‘I have learnt’. We are together looking at it now, attentively. 我们的头脑，如果你在敏感地觉察， 我们的头脑，通过时间进化， 从一个细胞发展到现在。 头脑在时间中工作， 它被时间所制约。 对吗？这一点很清楚。 我们把时间作为一种自我进步的方式， 花时间来学习一门语言， 花时间积累知识， 为了富有技巧或者没有技巧地行动。 所以，时间是一个因素， 我们生活中一个被深深制约的因素。 有希望——未来，也就是希望—— 还有作为过去的时间， 带着它所有的记忆，经验。还有知识的时间， 不管是科学的还是心理的知识， 或者自我知识，这些都在时间的领域。 当一个人说，“我将变得更好”， “我将不会这样，我会那样”， 这些涉及到时间。 请理解这一点。让我们一起思考和观察。 你不只是在听，演讲者 推进任何想法， 你抓住，记住，然后说，“我学会了”。 现在，我们在一起用心地看着它。
38:29 So time has been the factor of guide, achievement, self knowledge, self advancement. Time is used in the sense, ‘I am lonely, but I will escape from it, or I will understand it, or I will do something about it’. In all that is implied time. And we say, after accumulating knowledge, we will act skilfully. I want to be a good carpenter, I apprentice myself to a master carpenter, and learn after many years, like a surgeon, like a businessman, like the priest and so on. Time is knowledge. From that knowledge we act. Or act and learn from that action, which becomes knowledge again. You are following? There are these two ways of acting, either accumulate knowledge first, like a doctor, ten years in learning, intern, and so on, then he becomes a doctor, a surgeon, after studying, learning, accumulating knowledge, act. Or act, and from that action learn, which becomes knowledge. So both are the same, both are based on the acquisition of knowledge and acting from that knowledge. And knowledge is always incomplete, it's always within the shadow of ignorance. So action must be always limited. And therefore any action born out of an idea, which is the projection of thought, any action born out of recollection of past knowledge, memory and so on must also be limited and therefore bringing about conflict, confusion. This is again logical, rational, sane. It is not a point of view of the speaker but it is an obvious fact. This is how we act, how we live. 所以，时间是指导， 成就，自我知识，自我进步的因素。 时间在这种情境下被使用，“我是孤独的， 但是我会逃避它，或者我会理解它， 或者我会对它做些什么。” 这一切之中都暗含着时间。 而我们说，在积累了知识之后，我们会富有技巧地行动。 我想变成一个好木匠， 我向一位木匠大师学习， 在学习了很多年之后，就像一个外科大夫， 就像一名商人，一个牧师等等。 时间是知识。 我们基于那种知识行动。 或者行动，然后从那种行动学习， 那又变成了知识。 你明白吗？有两种行动的方式， 或者首先积累知识， 就像一名医生，用十年的时间学习， 实习，等等，然后他变成了一名医生，一个外科大夫， 经过学习，积累知识，之后行动。 或者，行动，从那种行动中学习， 那些也变成了知识。所以，二者是一样的， 都是基于获取知识， 然后从那些知识行动。 知识总是不完整的， 它总是在无知的阴影里。 所以，行动总是受限的。 因此，我们的行动诞生于一个想法， 也就是思想的投射， 任何诞生于过去的知识，记忆等等的重组的行动， 必然是受限的，因此带来冲突，困惑。 这也是符合逻辑，合理，理性的。 这不是演讲者的观点， 而是一个明显的事实。这就是我们如何行动，如何生活。
42:15 So we are enquiring if there is a totally different way of acting. We must be very clear, if the speaker may repeat, we must be absolutely clear about the function of knowledge. You have accumulated, within the last hundred and fifty years, more technological knowledge than ever before, tremendous knowledge, otherwise you couldn’t have gone to the Moon, spaceship and so on, so on. You have invented, man has invented all the terrible instruments of war, the atomic bomb which has been the main exportation, apart from grain and blue jeans, of America. 所以，我们在探究，是否有一种完全不同的行动方式。 我们必须非常清楚，如果演讲者可以重复， 我们必须非常清楚知识的功能。 你们在过去一百五十年积累了， 比以往都多的技术的知识， 巨量的知识，否则你们不可能去到月球， 造太空飞船，等等。 你们发明了，人类发明了 所有战争的恐怖设备， 原子弹已经成了主要的出口产品， 除了谷物和美国的蓝色牛仔裤。
43:30 And we are asking, is there an action which is not limited, therefore complete, whole, so that it does not bring conflict? Please this is important to understand, if you will give your mind, your brain, to attend to find out. As we said, many of you may be interested in meditation and therefore nothing else but if you are only interested in meditation, such meditation is meaningless if one doesn’t live rightly, sanely, rationally. Such meditation, whether it's Zen, or X, Y, Z meditation is merely an escape from actuality, an escape from ‘what is’, which is our daily life. Our daily life is such misery, such confusions, there is so much conflict. And try to meditate and come into a kind of mystical experience is only an illusion. Perhaps you like to live in illusions, it is more fanciful, pleasurable, but to see 'what is' and then see if that ‘what is’ can be transformed, that’s part of profound meditation. 我们问是否有一种行动， 不是受限的， 因此是完整的， 因此不会带来冲突？ 请注意，理解这一点很重要， 如果你给予你的意识，你的头脑，去关注，去发现。 就像我们说的，我们中的许多人对冥想感兴趣， 因此对其他没兴趣， 但是如果你只对冥想感兴趣， 这样的冥想是毫无意义的，如果你没有正确地， 合理地，理性地生活。 这样的冥想，不管是禅宗，或者X，Y，Z冥想， 都只是一种对现实的逃避，对“事实之是”的逃避， 这也就是我们的日常生活。 我们的日常生活是如此痛苦，如此困惑， 有太多的冲突。 尝试去冥想，然后获得一些神秘的体验， 只是一种幻觉。你也许喜欢生活在幻觉里， 它更奇幻，更令人愉悦，但是去看“事实之是”， 然后看“事实之是“是否能被转变， 才是深沉的冥想的一部分。
45:33 So we are asking, is there an action which is complete and not limited and therefore confusing? That is the question. We are asking, we are not saying there is, or there is not. We are asking a fundamental question, not a superficial, passing demand. We are asking something very, very serious because man, for millions and millions of years, has lived in confusion, conflict, misery, never resolving the human conflict, the human suffering. He has escaped from it, through religions, through all kinds of fanciful, symbolic worship and prayer. 所以我们问，是否有一种行动， 是完整，不受制约，因此不令人困惑？ 这就是问题所在。 我们在询问，不是在说，有或者没有。 我们在问一个基本的问题， 不是肤浅的，转瞬即逝的需求。 我们在问非常非常严肃的事， 因为人类，经历了数百万年， 生活在困惑，冲突，痛苦中， 从未解决人类的冲突和苦难。 他从中逃离，通过宗教， 通过各种奇幻的，符号化的崇拜和祈祷。
46:42 So please, together we are trying to find out if there is an action that is whole, holistic. That word ‘holistic’ means sane, healthy, rational, and also the word ‘whole’ means holy, H-O-L-Y. All that is implied in that one word, ‘holistic’. Is there such an action which doesn’t bring conflict, which doesn’t bring about more problems? How are we going to find out? Together. How do you approach a question like this? How do you look, or listen to a question put before you? Either you say, ‘There is no such action’ and so you have blocked yourself, if you say that. Or you may say, 'It is possible'. Again, the possibility is not actuality. So it's very important, if you want to find out if there is such action, it is very important to find out how you listen to the content of that question. Whether your mind, when that question is put, whether your brain is trying to resolve the problem, trying to find an answer, or actually listens very carefully to the meaning of the word. The word is merely a means of communication, the word is not the thing, it never is. The symbol is not the actuality. So it is very important how you listen to the challenge, whether you are trying to resolve it intellectually, rationally, reasonably. If you are trying to resolve it reasonably you will inevitably come to the conclusion, 'it's not possible'. The process of logic is the activity of thought which is always limited. Therefore your answer to a challenge will be limited. Therefore you have found no answer to the question. I hope this is all clear. 所以，请注意，我们在一起探究， 是否有完整，整体的行动。 ”完整“这个词意味着理智， 健康，理性，同样，“完整”这个词意味着，神－圣。 这些（意思）都在“完整”这个词中隐含着。 存在这样的， 不会带来冲突， 不会带来更多问题的行动吗？ 我们要如何一同发现它？ 你们如何接近像这样的一个问题？ 你们如何看，或者听， 这样一个放在你面前的问题？ 你或者说，“没有这样的行动”， 所以如果你这样说，你就阻碍了自己。 或者你也许会说，“这有可能”。 同样的，这种可能性不是一个事实。 所以，这很重要， 如果你想去发现是否有这样的行动， 发现你如何倾听这个问题的 内容，就是十分重要的。 当那个问题被提出时，你的意识， 你的头脑是否尝试去解决那个问题， 尝试去寻找一个答案， 或者真的在非常仔细地聆听 那些词语的意思。 词语只是交流的手段， 词语不是那个东西，从来不是。 符号不是事实。 所以，你如何倾听那个挑战，是非常重要的， 你是否尝试去智力地， 依靠理性地，解决它。 如果你尝试靠理性解决它， 你就必要会得到“它不可能”的结论。 逻辑的过程是思想的活动， 它总是受限的。 因此你对这个挑战的回答必然是局限的。 因此你发现那个问题没有答案。 我希望这一点清楚了。
50:24 So how do you approach the question? Do you approach it with a mind, with a brain that says, ‘It is a question I don’t quite understand, I’ll first watch it, listen to it. Not try to find an answer. Let me see the content of that word.' That is, is there an action which is not born out of memory, which is time, and I also know time is necessary, knowledge is necessary to drive a car, to be a carpenter, to be a surgeon, to be anything, knowledge is certainly necessary. But this question, can it be answered by thought which is the movement of memory? You understand? Are we together in this or am I...? Which means, when you try to answer it, right or wrong, impossible or possible, you are depending on memory. Therefore thought is telling you what to answer. And thought being limited, your answer will invariably be limited and therefore productive of conflict. If this is clear, will you observe, listen to the question without any movement of thought? 所以，你如何接近那个问题？ 你会带着一个，说 ”这是一个我不理解的问题， 我要首先看着他，聆听它。 不是尝试去找到一个答案。 让我们看看那些词语的内容”的意识，头脑吗？ 也就是，存在一种行动， 不是诞生于记忆， 也就是时间， 我也知道时间是必要的， 知识是必要的，去开车， 做木匠，做外科大夫， 去做任何事，知识确实是必要的。 但是这个问题，它可以被知识， 也就是记忆的活动回答吗？ 你明白吗？我们在一起探究还是只有我……？ 这也就意味着，当你尝试去回答它， 对或者错，不可能或者可能， 你都依赖于记忆。 因此思想在告诉你回答什么。 思想是受限的，你的答案不可能避免的 是受限的，因此产生冲突。 这一点清楚了吗？你会观察，聆听这个问题， 而没有任何思想的活动吗？
52:38 I will repeat the question, which is, is there a right action which is not born out of time, which is thought, which is knowledge? There may be no such action, or there may be. So our mind, our brain is free to look. Our brain being sensitive, alert, aware, is listening, paying tremendous attention to the question, not trying to solve it. So when you do that, that is, when you give complete attention, when you are totally sensitively aware, in that attention there is no question of time. But if you say, ‘I need time to be attentive’, that is to learn what it is to be attentive, then you are acting according to knowledge, which is to learn to be attentive. Then, you are not attentive. Right? Please see this. 我会重复这个问题，也就是， 存在一种不是诞生于时间， 也就是思想，知识，的正确的行动吗？ 也许没有这样的行动，也许有。 所以，我们的意识，我们的头脑自由地去看。 我们的头脑是敏感的，警觉的，觉察的，是在聆听的， 对那个问题给予了巨大的关注， 不是尝试去解决它。 所以，当你那样做， 也就是，当你给予全然的关注， 当你彻底地，敏感地，觉察， 在那种觉察中，没有时间的问题。 但是如果你说，“我需要时间去变觉察”， 也就是去学习什么是觉察， 然后你根据那些知识行动， 这就是学习去觉察。那么，你就没有在觉察。 对吗？请看到这一点。
54:07 So can you listen to this question with all your being, with all your capacity, attention? When you give that total attention it is like bringing light, putting light upon something that has been obscure. And when you give that attention there is total light on the question. And the question then reveals its own answer. When you see something clearly, that clarity is the answer. You understand? 所以，你可以聆听这个问题， 带着你整个存在，你所有的能力，去关注吗？ 当你给予全部的关注， 它就像带来光明， 照亮一些很模糊的事。 当你给予关注， 给予那个问题彻底的光明。 然后那个问题就会揭示它自己的答案。 当你清楚地看到某事时， 那种清晰就是答案。你明白吗？
55:10 So there is an action – please don’t accept it, don’t be mystified by it, don’t say, there is, there is not, find out for yourself – there is an action which is born out of insight. Insight is not the remembrance of things past, but seeing something directly, purely, without any direction, and that seeing, perception, is total action, which is insight. And when you can so look at the movement of thought, which is the content of our consciousness – the content, which is our greed, our envy, our ambition, our nationalism, our beliefs, our experiences, our pleasures, all that is our consciousness. When you think, I believe in God, that's part of your consciousness, or I don’t believe in God, that's part of your consciousness. That consciousness is put together by thought, through experience and so on. Now to look, to observe the totality of that consciousness is to observe attentively one action, completely. That is, to have an insight into the movement of action. 所以存在一种行动 ——请不要接受它，不要把它神秘化—— 不要说，存在，不存在，为你自己发现它—— 存在一种诞生于洞察的行动。 洞察不是对过去事情的记忆， 而是直接看到某事，纯洁地，没有任何方向的， 那种看，觉察，就是彻底的行动，也就是洞察。 当你能这样看着思想的活动， 也就是我们意识的内容——内容， 也就是我们的贪婪，嫉妒，野心，国家主义， 我们的信仰，经验，快感， 所有这些都是我们的意识。 当你思考，我信仰上帝，这是你意识的一部分， 或者我不信仰上帝，这也是你意识的一部分。 那个意识是由思想构成的， 通过经验，等等。 现在去看，去观察， 那个意识的整体， 去富有觉察地，彻底地，观察我们的行动。 也就是，对行动的活动，有洞察。
57:13 Right, sir, that's enough. I’ve finished. We will continue tomorrow morning, if you don’t mind. 对，先生，这就足够了。 我结束了。 如果你们不介意，我们明天早晨会继续。