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OJ82T4 - 人类冲突的根源何在？
第四次公开讲话
美国，加州，欧亥
1982年5月9日



1:06 May we continue from where we left off yesterday? We were talking about disorder and the causes of disorder and the very detrimental, destructive nature of fear. We went into it very carefully yesterday, step by step, and that it is possible to be totally free psychologically of the burden of fear. And we also slightly touched upon the subject of conflict, human conflict. If I may suggest, this is not an entertainment, a Sunday morning outing because you have nothing else better to do. Nor is it an intellectual amusement. Life has become, has always been, very, very serious. Serious in the sense that one has to respond fully to all the things that are happening around us: the dreadful wars that are going on, the religious divisions, the various types of gurus with their peculiar entertainment. And as this is a serious gathering, one hopes, it becomes rather necessary that one must exercise one’s own brain, one's own capacity, one's own energy, not stimulated by others or by these talks, but rather, as we are together examining the present state of human affairs, it becomes necessary that this gathering should not be treated as a lecture, a lecture being to inform or to have a discussion, transmitting ideas, certain judgements and evaluations. So this is not a lecture, as we have been pointing out over and over again here. The speaker is merely acting as a mirror in which one sees one’s own condition, one's own fears, anxieties, loneliness, and the agony of life with its occasional flare of joy. 我们可以接着昨天中断的地方继续讲吗？ 昨天我们谈了混乱和产生混乱的原因， 以及恐惧那有害的、毁灭性的的本质。 昨天我们非常仔细地、一步一步地探讨了它们， 发现在心理上完全摆脱 恐惧的重负是可能的。 我们也稍稍谈了一下冲突这个话题——人类的冲突。 容我冒昧指出，这并不是一次娱乐活动，或是星期天早晨的郊游 ——因为你没什么其他更好的事可以做。 这也不是一次智力上的消遣。 生活已经变得——它一直都是——非常非常的严肃。 严肃的意义就是我们必须要对所有的事作出充分的反应 ——对那些发生在我们周围的事： 那些正在进行着的可怕的战争，宗教的分裂， 各种类型的古鲁和他们特有的娱乐活动。 而因为这是一次严肃的集会，所以我希望 ——这一点是必需的，那就是你必须运用你自己的大脑， 你自己的能力，你自己的能量 ——不是被其他人或者被这些谈话所激发的， 而是，因为我们正在一起检视 当今人类的生存状态， 所以我们需要的是，不要把这次集会 当成一次讲座 ——讲座就是作报告、进行讨论、 传达理念、某些意见和评价。 所以这并不是一次讲座 ——就像我们曾经在这里一遍又一遍指出的那样。 讲话者仅仅是作为一面镜子 ——在这面镜子中你看到的是你自己的局限、 你自己的恐惧、焦虑、孤独、 生活的苦恼及其偶尔闪现的喜悦。
5:55 So we talked yesterday morning about fear, disorder, and the other mornings we talked about how human beings are hurt from childhood and that hurt they carry on throughout life and that it is possible to be free of all those hurts. And also we talked about relationship, human relationship. Why, in that relationship there is so much conflict. And whether it is possible to live a life, not only in all these matters, but essentially, deeply, to live without conflict. 所以昨天早上我们谈到了 恐惧、混乱， 前几天的早上我们谈到了 人类是如何从小开始就遭受伤害 并且一辈子都携带着那个伤害的， 以及我们是有可能摆脱掉所有这些伤害的。 我们同样也谈了关系——人类的关系。 为什么在人际关系中会有如此多的冲突。 并且是否可能去过一种没有冲突的生活——不只是在这些事情上， 而是从本质上，在内心深处去没有冲突地生活。
7:08 Why do human beings, after so many millennia, so astonishingly intelligent in one direction, technological direction, why human beings do not apply that quality of intelligence to their own lives and see whether it is possible to live without conflict. What are the causes of human conflict? Why does one live a daily life, in our relationship, in our actions, why there is such conflict, struggle, such pain? Please, as we pointed out, you are asking this question, not the speaker. The speaker is only putting into words the state of one’s own mind, the state of one's own life: the enormous contradictions, saying one thing, doing another, thinking one thing and acting quite differently. Why human beings after so many centuries, having acquired information outwardly about almost anything, inwardly, psychologically, they have not investigated into their own problems, into their own travail, into their own anxieties, pain, grief. Is it that we have always looked to authority, to somebody to tell us what to do? There are in this country, as one has observed, specialists of various types: religious, psychological, and so on. They are telling us what to do, what to think. And we are gradually becoming dependent upon them, and so losing our own capacity, our own intrinsic energy of intelligence to explore and discover the causes of our conflicts, struggle, pain, and so on. 为什么人类在数千年以后 ——他们在某个领域，也就是在技术领域是如此智慧 ——为什么人类不把那种智慧的品质 运用在他们自己的生活上， 然后去看一下是否可能没有冲突地生活。 人类冲突的原因是什么？ 为什么我们要去过这样的一种日常生活，在我们的关系中，在我们的行动中， 为什么会有这种冲突、斗争和痛苦？ 拜托，就像我们所指出的，是你在问这个问题，而不是讲话者。 讲话者只是把它们用语言表达了出来——也就是我们自己的心灵状态， 我们自己的生活状态： 那种说一套做一套的巨大的矛盾； 想的是这样，做的却完全是另一套。 为什么人类在无数世纪以后 ——他们已经获得了几乎所有外在事物的信息， 然而内在、心理上， 他们却未能去探究他们自己的问题、 他们自己的劳苦、焦虑、痛苦和忧伤。 是不是因为我们总是指望那些权威， 指望某人来告诉我们该怎么做？ 在这个国家里——就像你可以观察到的—— 有着各种类型的专家：宗教上的、心理学上的，等等。 他们在告诉我们该怎么做，该想什么。 于是我们逐渐变得依赖于他们， 于是失去了我们自身的能力， 失去了我们自己内在智慧的能量， 无法再去探索和发现造成我们冲突、 斗争、痛苦等等的原因了。
10:53 This morning we ought to talk over together the cause of conflict. There are various types of conflict, both outward and inward. The inward conflicts express themselves in the outward conflicts – you cannot have a society, an orderly society unless we, human beings live an orderly life, sane, rational, healthy, holy life. And so we ought to, together, think why we have all become like this – what we are. 今天早上我们要一起来讨论一下冲突的原因。 有着各种类型的冲突——既包括外在的，也包括内在的。 内在的冲突会以外在的冲突表现出来， 你无法拥有一个社会，一个有序的社会 ——除非我们人类能过上一种有序的生活， 一种健全、理性、健康、神圣的生活。 因此我们应该一起来思考 为什么我们都变成了这样——变成了现在这样。
12:09 We have been pointing out in previous talks, our consciousness with its content – the content being hurts, beliefs, conclusions, judgements, evaluations, fears, pleasures, various types of acquisitive attachments, fear of death, seeking something beyond the ordinary events of life – that is the content of our consciousness. That is what we are. We, or the ‘I’, is not different from the content. I think this should be made clear. It may be that one is so conditioned to analysis, we want to find out why we human beings live as we do, and so we begin to analyse, try to discover the various causes for this unfortunate troublesome existence. But we have never enquired who is the analyser and the analysed. Is the analyser different from the analysed, and can the analyser merely verbally find the cause and the analyser then dissipate the cause? We have done this for thousands of years. We know the causes. Most intelligent people, most people who are aware of their own turmoil, they can easily, through analysis, find out the cause, or the causes. 就像我们在之前的谈话中所指出的， 我们的意识及其内容 ——那些内容就是无数的伤害、信仰、 结论、判断、评价、 恐惧、快感， 各种迫切想要得到的执着之物， 对死亡的恐惧，寻找某些超越平凡生活的东西 ——这就是我们意识的内容。 这就是我们自己。 我们，或者“我”，和那些内容并没有不同。 我认为这点应该先搞清楚。 或许是因为我们如此受限于分析， 我们想要发现为什么人类要像现在这样生活， 于是我们开始去分析，试图去发现各种原因 来解释这种不幸、烦恼的生活。 但是我们却从未询问过谁是那个分析者，谁是那个被分析者。 分析者和被分析对象是不同的吗？ 分析者能够仅仅从字面上找到那个原因， 然后消除那个原因吗？ 这种事情我们已经做了有几千年了。 我们都知道那些原因。 大多数聪明的人，大多数察觉到自身混乱的人， 他们很容易就能通过分析找到一个原因，或者很多原因。
15:17 And so, we have separated the analyser, who is investigating the consciousness of himself. I hope this is clear. My consciousness, and yours, is its content. Without the content there is no consciousness as we know it. The content of one’s consciousness, one wants to investigate, one wants to look, one wants to find out why that consciousness is in conflict, in contradiction. So one separates oneself from the thing that is being examined. Please follow this, if you will, a little bit. Thought separates itself as the analyser, that analyser tries to examine, analyse that confusion, that turmoil, that loneliness, that despair, and then begins to discover the cause. Then he tries to dissipate the cause, hoping thereby to wipe away the effects of the cause. So there is this division, as the analyser and the analysed, and hence wherever there is psychological division in oneself there must be conflict. This is a law, as gravity, that wherever inwardly there is a contradiction, a division, a separation of the analyser from the analysed as the observer and the observed, there must be conflict: as the Arab and the Jew, the Hindu and the Muslim, the ideological differences of the capitalist society and the totalitarian society, there must be conflict. And that conflict brings about this division, brings about the feeling of not being whole, the feeling of not being whole, because in us, in ourself, there is the division. 于是我们把那个分析者分离出来了 ——分析者就是那个在研究他自己意识的人。 我希望这点已经清楚了。 我的意识、你的意识——就是意识的内容。 没有那些内容，就没有我们所知道的意识。 对于我们自身意识的内容，我们想要去研究， 我们想要去观察，我们想要去发现 为什么那种意识会处于冲突、矛盾之中。 于是我们把自己从被检视的事物中分离出来。 请跟上这些——如果你愿意的话，请稍微跟上一些。 思想把自己分离出来，成为了分析者， 那个分析者试图去检视、去分析那个困惑、 那个混乱、那个孤独、那个绝望， 然后开始发现原因。 然后他试图去消除那个原因， 希望借此除掉那个原因所带来的结果。 所以存在着这种分裂——分析者和被分析者， 因此无论哪里有了内在心理上的分裂， 就必然会有冲突。 这是一个定律，就像地心引力一样， 也就是当内在有了一种矛盾、一种分裂， 有了分析者和被分析之物、 观察者和被观之物间的分离时， 那么就必然会有冲突： 就像阿拉伯人和犹太人、印度教徒和伊斯兰教徒， 以及意识形态的差异——资本主义社会 和极权主义社会， 他们之间必然会有冲突。 而那种冲突带来了这种分裂， 带来了那种无法完整的感觉， 那种不完整感， 因为我们内在、我们内心有着分裂。
19:01 So is it possible to realise, not intellectually, but actually see the fact, as one sees a fact of pain, as one has this pain of a toothache, actually realise, feel, perceive, that where there is psychological division there must be, inevitably, logically, conflict. And this conflict denies the feeling of being whole. That is, the feeling of whole is the freedom from error: ‘to err’– you understand the word ‘error’. So, feeling whole, the feeling of being whole, means not inwardly fragmented, broken up as we are. That is, all psychological problems are interrelated: the hurt, the lack of order, disorder, the conflict in relationship, all these problems are interrelated. We treat them as separate. And the perception, or the seeing, logically, truthfully that all problems, psychological problems, whatever they be, are interrelated – you cannot take one problem separately from other problems. And to perceive the feeling of the whole movement of problems is one problem. A problem means, according to the dictionary, something thrown at you; that's the meaning of a problem. Something thrown at you which is a challenge. That’s the meaning of that word, ‘problem’ is that. It is a challenge, something put before you. You have to meet it rightly. But we meet every problem as though it were separate, to be resolved, unrelated to other problems, as we do in life: religion – which is no religion at all as it is now – is separate from your intellectual, technological life. If you are a great surgeon, you are not concerned about your daily life, what you are inwardly; you are concerned about your technique, your method of operation and so on. 所以是否可能意识到——不是智力上意识到， 而是实际地看到这个事实，就像一个人看到痛苦的事实一样， 就像一个人牙痛等等一样， 实际地意识到、感觉到、觉察到这一点， 那就是：无论哪里有了心理上的分裂， 那么就必然——这是不可避免的、合乎逻辑的——会有冲突。 而这种冲突否定了那种完整感。 也就是说，那种完整感就是摆脱错误的自由： “犯错”，你明白“错误”这个词的。 所以感到完整，那种完整的感觉 就意味着内在没有支离破碎，不像我们现在这样四分五裂。 也就是，所有的问题——心理上的问题——都是彼此联系在一起的： 伤害、失序、混乱、 关系中的冲突， 所有这些问题都是互相关联的。 而我们把它们看成是分开的。 理性地、如实地感知到或者观察到： 所有的问题，心理上的问题 ——不管是什么问题——它们都是彼此联系着的， 你无法把一个问题和其他问题分开。 去理解那种感觉：所有问题的全部运动 其实就是一个问题。 “问题”的意思是——根据词典——某个扔向你的东西； 这就是问题的意思。 某个扔给你的东西——也就是一个挑战； 这就是那个词的意思，“问题”指的就是这个。 它是一个挑战，某个摆在你面前的东西。 你必须正确地面对它。 而我们面对每一个问题时，就好像它们是分开的， 各自有待解决，和其他的问题毫不相干——我们在生活中就是这么做的： 宗教——如今这样的宗教根本就不是宗教—— 它和你智性的、技术的生活是分开的。 如果你是一个杰出的外科医生，你不会去关心你的日常生活， 去关心你内心的样子；你关心的是你的医术、 你的手术技巧等等。
23:35 So we live a life, both outwardly and inwardly, with a sense of fragmentation, which means we never feel the wholeness of life. That life is a movement, not your life and other people’s life; life as a whole is one. It’s not American life, or Indian life, or a Buddhist life, or a Muslim life, it is life, to be lived on this earth, sanely, rationally, not divided as nations, that's a tribal adoration of an idea. That is what is happening in South Atlantic, this tribal war that is going on. 所以我们所过的生活中——既包括外在，也包括内在—— 有着一种支离破碎感， 这意味着我们从未感受到生活的整体性。 那种生活是一种运动，它不是你的生活和别人的生活 ——生活是一个整体。 它并不是美国人的生活、印度人的生活、 佛教徒的生活，或者伊斯兰教徒的生活， 它就是生活，健全地、理性地活在这个地球上， 而不划分为各个国家——这不过是对某个概念的部落式崇拜。 这就是南大西洋沿岸正在发生的事情 ——这种部落的战争正在进行着。
24:54 So, we all want to be safe, that is natural. Physically, we want to be safe: to have a house, a shelter, clothing, food. That's natural, healthy, sane, rational, for all of us, not only for the affluent people. There is a great deal of poverty throughout the world, even in this country. This poverty, this lack of relationship to the whole of the world, is brought about by national divisions, religious divisions, economic divisions. There is no feeling of global relationship. Please listen to all this! And our outward problems will never be solved, never, unless we have this global relationship. That is why it is important to understand very carefully that our consciousness, with all the beliefs, dogmas, judgements, loneliness, despair, anxiety, fears, hurts, is common to all mankind – to all mankind whether they live in Russia, China, or in this country. And because it is common to all mankind, you are mankind. You are not a separate individual. This is hard to realise. Because you suffer, so does a man in the Far East; there he is uncertain, confused, trodden down, and you too, you are confused, uncertain, seeking security, safety; this is the problem of all human beings! And so it is hard to realise, to see the fact, because we are so conditioned to individuality, to see the actual fact that we are like the rest, we are the humanity, we are the whole of humanity. And therefore our action then will be a global relationship in which national divisions, religious divisions do not exist. 所以，我们都想要安全——这是很自然的。 生理上，我们渴望安全： 拥有一幢房子、一处住所、拥有衣服、食物。 这种需要是自然的、健康的、理智的、合理的 ——我们所有人都需要，不只是那些富裕的人。 整个世界有着大量的贫穷 ——即使这个国家里也有。 这种贫穷， 这种与全世界关系的隔绝 ——它是由国家的划分、 宗教的分裂和经济的壁垒所造成的。 我们没有那种全人类息息相关的感觉。 请听好这些话。 而我们外在的问题将永远无法被解决——永远 ——除非我们有了这种全人类同舟共济的关系。 这就是为什么重要的是非常仔细地了解这一点： 我们的意识——也就是所有那些信仰、教条、 判断、孤独、绝望、焦虑、恐惧、伤害—— 它们对全人类来说都是共同的，对全人类来说都一样， 不管他们是生活在俄国、中国，还是这个国家。 而因为它对全人类来说都是共同的，所以你就是人类。 你并不是一个单独的个体。要理解这一点很困难。 你在遭受痛苦，远东地区的人也在遭受痛苦； 在那里，他是茫然的、困惑的、被践踏的， 而你也一样，你也是困惑的、茫然的、寻找着安全和保障， 这些是全人类共同的问题。 所以要意识到、看到这个事实是很困难的， 因为我们是如此受限于个体性， 以至于无法看到那个千真万确的事实：我们和其他人是一样的， 我们就是人类，我们就是整个人类。 这样的话我们的行动就会是一种全人类同舟共济的关系 ——在这种关系中，国家的划分、宗教的分裂将不复存在。
28:37 So we should consider this morning whether it is possible for a human mind to be safe, safe from error. Do you understand my question? Human beings have sought security, not only physically through family, group, community, nationality and so on, but also tried to find safety, to be safe in ideas, collective ideas, collective group, having the same conclusions, same beliefs, same frontiers. Man has sought his safety in isolation. That's what each one of us is doing. We want to be safe in ourselves, separate from the rest of mankind. ‘Safe’ means to have this feeling of wholeness, of being whole, then you are completely safe. But you cannot be whole or have that extraordinary feeling of total completeness if there is any sense of fragmentation. Now, this statement from the speaker may be false. One must doubt, question. It may be his own peculiar invention or illusion. But, having heard it, one must find out if it is possible or not possible to live a life which is whole, therefore safe. That means you, who have listened to this statement, you have to apply your mind, not agree. You have to question, you have to question your life, your existence, your whole activity, find out for oneself whether it is possible to be totally safe. You cannot possibly be safe in isolation; doesn't matter whoever says it, it is a law. And so what happens if you cannot be safe in isolation, why is the world divided up like this? The British, the Argentine, the French, the Russian, you follow? And religiously, too. Those who are Christians, and the Christianity broken up in their beliefs, thousands of different beliefs in Christianity; the same thing in India, all over the world it’s the same phenomena. 所以今天早上我们来思考一下： 人类的心灵是否可能没有差错，能够免于犯错。 你明白我的问题吗？ 人类在寻找安全， 不仅寻找生理上的安全——通过家庭、 团体、社区、国家等等—— 同样也试图在理念中、在集体观念中、 在某个集体中寻找安全感——这个集体有着同样的结论、 同样的信仰、同样的边境。 人类在孤立中寻求他的安全。 这就是我们每个人在做的事情。 我们想要在自身之中获得安全——把自己和其他人类分开。 “安全”意味着有那种整体感，那种完整的感觉， 那样你才是彻底安全的。 但你是无法变得完整 或者拥有那种彻底完整的非凡感觉的 ——如果你有任何分裂感的话。 注意，讲话者的这种说法或许是错误的。 我们必须去怀疑、去发问。 那种说法或许是他自己特有的发明或者幻想。 但是在听到它以后，我们必须去弄清楚 有没有可能过一种完整 从而安全的生活。 那意味着你——你这个已经听了他的陈述的人—— 必须运用你的头脑，而不是同意。 你必须去质疑，你必须质疑你的生活、 你的存在、你所有的活动， 亲自去发现是否可能彻底地安全。 你是不可能在孤立中获得安全的 ——这句话是谁说的并没有关系——它是一个定律。 如果你无法在孤立中获得安全，那又会怎么样呢？ 为什么这个世界会分裂成这副样子？ 英国人、阿根廷人、法国人、俄国人，你明白吗？ 而在宗教上也一样， 那些基督教徒， 基督教因不同的信仰而四分五裂， 基督教里面有着成千上万种不同的信仰； 在印度也一样，放眼全世界，都是一样的现象。
33:14 So, we are asking, when one realises this fact, can one live in the modern world, do your business, whatever one does, with a sense of feeling of being whole, not fragmented. Specialisation is one of the factors of fragmentation. One has to have specialists: doctors, carpenters, the postman, and so on. But psychologically, inwardly, what is the need to be a specialist? You are following all this? We are human beings. 所以我们问：当你意识到了这个事实， 你能够活在这个现代世界里，做你自己的事——不管你做什么—— 同时带着一种整体的、不支离破碎的感觉吗？ 专业化是导致支离破碎的原因之一。 我们必须有那些专业人士：医生、木匠、邮递员等等。 但是在心理上、内在，有必要成为专业人士吗？ 你们明白这些吗？ 我们是人类。
34:28 So, we ought to discuss also the nature of pleasure, as we talked about fear. And also we should go into the question of suffering, whether it is possible for us as human beings who have lived on this earth for so many millennia, whether it is possible to end our sorrow. Please, as we have pointed out, this is a serious question. It's not just a Sunday morning sermon. Thank god we are not in a church or a cathedral, you are under lovely trees. We ought to be serious enough to enquire into all these matters. So we are going to enquire first why man has pursued pleasure at any price, why it has become such an important thing in life. When you emphasize one thing, you deny the others. You are merely pursuing pleasure, pleasure in so many forms: pleasure of possession, pleasure in attachment, pleasure in becoming something, pleasure in having knowledge, pleasure in having a piece of earth, pleasure in feeling that you have achieved something, you have been able to have a very good body, pleasure in drink – you know, so many forms of pleasure. Not only sexual remembrance of pleasure, but the pleasure of seeking, finding, achieving, being somebody. So why has pleasure become so extraordinarily important in life? 所以，我们也应该来讨论一下欢愉的本质 ——就像我们讨论恐惧一样。 我们同样也要来探究一下痛苦的问题。 我们是否可能——我们人类 已经在这个地球上生活了几千年—— 是否可能结束我们的悲伤。 请注意，就如我们所指出的，这是一个很严肃的问题。 它并不只是星期天早晨的一次布道 ——谢天谢地我们没有在一个小教堂或者大教堂里， 你们是坐在这些美丽的树下。 我们应当足够认真地去探询所有这些问题。 所以我们首先要询问的是 为什么人要不惜一切代价地去追求欢愉？ 为什么欢愉变成了生活中如此重要的事？ 当你强调一个东西时，你就否定了其他东西。 你仅仅是在追逐欢愉——各种形式的欢愉： 占有带来的欢愉， 依恋带来的欢愉， 成为某个东西的欢愉，获得知识的欢愉， 拥有一块土地的欢愉， 感到自己已经获得某些成就、 感到自己能有一个非常健康身体的欢愉， 喝酒的欢愉——你知道各种形式的欢愉。 不仅仅是对性方面欢愉的记忆， 同样包括寻找、发现、成就、成为某号人物所带来的欢愉。 所以为什么欢愉在生活中变得极度重要？
37:47 What is pleasure? As we examined very carefully into the nature of fear, we went into it in great detail, we should also regard, examine pleasure. What is pleasure? Please, you answer the question, not the speaker. Is it a remembrance? Pleasure in prayer, pleasure in worship – I don’t know what you pray to, what you worship, but it’s a pleasure. Is it a remembrance of things that are past, over? Or, is it something in the future? Thinking about that which might give you pleasure. Or, the remembering of something which gave you a delight yesterday. Does pleasure, as fear, exist now? In that sense of having pleasure at the moment? It’s like a man saying, I am happy. The moment he says that, he is not. It’s only the remembrance of being happy at one time, or yesterday. That remembrance is the pleasure and the pursuit of that remembrance in action. I hope you are following all this. So, is pleasure a matter of time? Is pleasure an action of thought? As fear, we said yesterday, and we have said this often before, time and thought are the root of fear. Time and thought are the root of pleasure. We want to deny fear, but pursue pleasure. They are two sides of the same coin. You cannot be free from fear if you do not understand the nature of pleasure. When you look at that mountain, though it is a cloudy morning, when you look at these marvellous old trees and the blue sky, it gives you a delight. It is a marvellous thing to look at nature and the mountains and the rivers and the animals – wild, not kept in a zoo. It gives you a sense of extraordinary width and beauty. You remember that, then that remembrance insists and pursues, having, demanding more of the same thing. So thought and time are the factors of fear, and pleasure. We are not denying or asserting or suppressing fear, but to observe it, to see what is implied in it, to be totally acquainted with it. 什么是欢愉？ 就像我们之前非常小心仔细地检视了恐惧的本质， 很详细地探讨了它一样， 我们也要来考虑和检视欢愉。 什么是欢愉？ 请注意，你要来回答这个问题——而不是讲话者。 欢愉是一种记忆吗？ 祈祷中的欢愉、崇拜中的欢愉， ——我不知道你在向谁祈祷，你在崇拜什么——但那也是一种欢愉。 欢愉是不是一种对过去的、已经结束的事物的回忆？ 还是说它是某种存在于未来的事物？ 想着那个或许能带来欢愉的东西， 或者回忆某个昨天带给你快乐的东西。 欢愉——就像恐惧一样——它是存在于此刻的吗？ 也就是说，可能在此刻拥有欢愉吗？ 这就像是一个人说，“我很快乐。” 他一说出这句话的时候，他就不再是快乐的了。 那不过是曾经的或昨日的快乐回忆罢了； 那种记忆就是欢愉， 然后在行动中去追求那种记忆。 我希望你明白了所有这些。 因此，欢愉是不是和时间有关？ 欢愉是不是一种思想的活动？ 就像恐惧一样——我们昨天谈到了，我们以前也经常会说到这点： 时间和思想就是恐惧的源头。 时间和思想也是欢愉的源头。 然而我们却想要否定恐惧，去追求欢愉。 它们是同一个硬币的两面。 你是无法摆脱恐惧的 ——如果你不了解欢愉的本质的话。 当你远望那座山——虽然今天早上是阴天—— 当你看着那些不可思议的古树和湛蓝的天空， 你感到无比喜悦。 这是一件多么美妙的事情——去欣赏自然、群山、 河流和动物——野生的动物，而不是那些关在动物园里的。 它给予你一种无比广阔和美的感觉。 你记住了它， 然后那种记忆就会固执地追求、 拥有和需要更多同样的体验。 所以思想和时间就是促成恐惧和欢愉的因素。 我们并没有在否定、肯定或者压抑恐惧， 而是在观察它，去看看它意味着什么， 去彻底地认识它。
43:20 Then one can ask, what is love? You understand, this is very serious, all these questions, human questions which affect our daily life. Is love pleasure? Man has reduced it to that. Is love pleasure? Is love desire? Love of a person, love of a poem, love of a painting, love of the country, love of acquiring a great deal of knowledge. So what is love? Love of God – it's so easy to love God. We don’t know what that is, but we have invented it, and so we love it. You understand? What we invent, we love. So what is love? Negation is the most positive action. To negate that which is false, totally negate that which is false is the most positive action. To negate, for instance, the whole concept of nationalism, or a saviour, or some external agency to reform us, to change us, to bring about a different society – to negate the outward agency of any kind is the most positive action. So to negate totally that which is not love. That is, to negate jealousy, to negate totally every form of antagonism, to put aside competition, to deny the sense of separate entity – and you are not a separate entity, you are related, you are the mankind. 然后你就可以问，什么是爱？ 你知道的，这是非常严肃的——所有这些问题， 这些影响我们日常生活的人类的问题。 那么爱是欢愉吗？ 人类已经让它沦为了欢愉。 爱是欢愉吗？爱是欲望吗？ 爱国家、爱一个人、爱一首诗、爱一幅画、 热爱这个国家， 热爱获得大量的知识。 所以什么是爱？ 爱上帝——爱上帝是多么容易。 我们并不知道上帝是什么，但我们已经发明出了它，所以我们爱它。 你懂了吗？我们发明了什么，我们就爱什么。 那什么是爱呢？ 否定就是最积极的行动。 去否定那个错误的东西，彻底否定错误的东西 就是最积极的行动。 去否定——举例来说——国家主义的整个概念， 救世主，或者某个外在的中介来改善我们、 转变我们，带来一个不同的社会； 去否定所有外在的中介就是最积极的行动。 所以要彻底否定那些不是爱的东西。 也就是，去否定嫉妒， 彻底否定任何形式的对立， 摒弃竞争， 否定孤独，否定那种单独个体的感觉 ——你并不是一个单独的个体，你是处于关系中的，你就是人类。
47:19 So to deny that which is false is the truth. To deny all illusions is to live in reality. So can one deny, put aside, negate that which is not love. Attachment is not love; see the consequences of attachment, attachment to an idea, to a belief, to a conclusion, to a piece of earth, as my country, attachment to a person. What is involved in this attachment? Suppose I am attached to my wife. What are the consequences of attachment? Enquire, please, for yourself. I am attached to my wife, or the wife is attached to me. And the consequences are fear, the loss. If I am attached to a belief, the same thing, fear of losing that belief. If I am attached to some experience, I hold on to that and I battle, resist any form of enquiry by you to doubt it. I daren’t doubt it, because I feel without it I am nothing. So, is it possible to have a relationship with a man, woman, or anything – anything – without any sense of attachment? Would my wife, if I told her, ‘Darling, I am not attached to you’, what would she say? She would throw something at me, probably. You laugh, but you have not applied, you don’t face the facts, that attachment denies totally love. You will say, I understand it logically, intellectually, but I have not this feeling that I must be free from it because that’s one of the factors of conflict. Where there is conflict, there is not only division, there cannot be love. If I love the thing called God which man has invented, there is conflict, because I want his forgiveness, his prayer. You follow? 所以否定错误的事物——这就是真理。 否定所有的错觉就是活在真实中。 所以我们可以去否认、撇开、否定那些不是爱的东西吗？ 依附并不是爱， 看看依附的后果吧 ——依附一个观念、一个信仰、一个结论、 一片土地——把它作为我的祖国， 依附一个人。这种依附中包含了什么？ 假设我依恋我的妻子， 这种依恋会造成什么后果？ 拜托，请你自己去探询。 我依恋我的妻子，或者我的妻子依恋我， 其结果就是恐惧、害怕失去。 如果我依附于一个信仰，结果也是一样，我会害怕失去那个信仰。 如果我依恋某种经验，我就会紧抓住它不放，然后 与你所提出来的任何质疑的询问作斗争，去抗拒它。 我不敢去怀疑它，因为我觉得没有了它，我就一无所是了。 所以，是否可能和一个男人、一个女人， 或者任何人、任何事物产生一种关系 却没有任何依附感？ 如果我告诉我的妻子，“亲爱的，我并不依恋你”， 那么她会怎么说？ 她很可能会朝我砸东西。（笑声） 你笑了，但你并没有去践行，你没有去面对事实 ——也就是依附是对爱的彻底否定。 你会说，我能从逻辑上、智力上理解它， 但是我并没有觉得我必须要摆脱它 ——只因为它是造成冲突的因素之一。 无论哪里有了冲突，那么就不仅会有分裂，同样也不会有爱。 如果我爱那个人类所发明的被称为上帝的东西， 那么就会有冲突，因为我渴望他的宽恕、他的祝福。 你明白吗？
51:46 So love cannot exist where there is antagonism, competition, attachment, conflict, possession. Now can the mind, can a human being negate all that, and live with a man or a woman in society? You have heard this statement – either it is true or utterly meaningless. If it is meaningless, then it has no value. But if you have heard it and find it has value, in the sense that it can be applied, why is it that human beings, knowing all this, don’t apply? Why is it that human beings never change radically? Nothing outside will make you change – no gods, no gurus, no Masters, no saviours, no authority. There is a mutation in that conditioning only when you yourself see the truth of it. That means you yourself have to think clearly, objectively, not personally. That means to have this extraordinary sense of the feeling of being whole. Not fragmented means to be safe, free from all error. And when the mind is in that state, there is love. It’s not whether you love your wife or you don’t love somebody else, love is love. Please see all this. It’s not, can I love one person and not love another? It’s like the perfume of a flower. When the perfume is there, it is not only for the one who is nearest to the flower, but the flower itself is the beauty of life, to be looked at, admired, smelled by anyone who wants to. This is not a romantic statement where you can kind of admire and smile and say, I wish I had it. Because without that perfume of love, life has no meaning. You may be a marvellous professor, great scientist, and so on; without that, life has lost its vitality, its depth, its beauty. 所以爱无法存在于有对立的地方， 无法存在于有着竞争、依附、冲突和占有的地方。 那么心灵可不可以，一个人可不可以否定所有这些， 然后和一个男人或者女人在社会中一起生活？ 你已经听到了这种说法——它要么是正确的，要么就彻底没有意义。 如果它是没意义的，那么它就没什么价值了。 但是如果你听了它以后， 发现了它具有某种价值——价值的意义就是它是可以去实行的， 为什么人类知道所有这一切，却不去实施呢？ 为什么人类永远不去彻底地改变？ 没有外在的东西能使你改变 ——没有神明、没有古鲁、没有上师、没有救世主，也没有权威能改变你。 针对那种局限的突变 只有当你自己看到它的真相时才会发生。 那意味着你自己必须清楚、客观、非个人化地思考。 那就意味着拥有这种非凡的完整感。 不支离破碎就意味着安全和脱离了所有的错误。 当心灵处于那种状态中，就会有爱。 并不是你爱不爱你的妻子， 或者你不爱别的人——爱就是爱。 请明白这一切。 并不是说，我能不能爱一个人而不爱另一个人？ 它就像是一朵花的芬芳。 当那种芬芳在那里， 它不仅仅是献给那个离花最近的人的， 而是那朵花本身就是生命之美， 它可以被任何愿意的人欣赏、赞美和嗅闻。 这并不是一种浪漫多情的说法：你可以称赞它、微笑着 说，我希望我也能拥有那种芬芳。 因为没有那种爱的芬芳，生命就失去了意义。 你或许是一个了不起的教授，一个伟大的科学家，等等； 但是没有那种芬芳，生命就失去了它的活力、它的深度、它的美。
56:03 And also we should talk about what is beauty. What is the quality of mind that has beauty? Is it the face, well-covered up with all kinds of cosmetics, lovely hair, properly shaped eyes, etc? Is beauty in the painting of a great master? Is there beauty in a lovely poem? What is beauty? Because if you have not that quality of that sense of depth and the clarity which beauty brings about, love has no meaning either, because they two go together. So one has to enquire very carefully, and if you are serious, deeply, what is beauty. Can beauty exist where the mind is in conflict? When you have problems, one or many, can beauty exist? Or, beauty is there when you are not there. Have you ever looked at a great mountain, the majesty, the dignity, the immovability of that mountain when you look at it? For a moment, the majesty of it drives away all your problems – for a second. That is, at that moment, you, with all your problems, are not there. And you say, what a marvellous thing that is. There, the outward greatness drives away the pettiness of yourself. Then that feeling of immensity, magnitude, that great wordless state puts away the little problems of life. Like a child with a toy, the toy takes the child over; for a moment the child has forgotten or is absorbed by the toy. We are also absorbed by something; escape from ourselves. Which is to be absorbed. You are being absorbed now by the talk. So for the moment you are quiet. So when you, with your problems, with your anxieties, with your loneliness, with your attachments, are not there then beauty is. And where there is beauty, and love, life becomes an extraordinary movement. 而我们也应该来讨论一下什么是美。 拥有美的心灵具有什么样的品质？ 美是那张被各种化妆品精心粉饰的脸蛋吗？ 美是漂亮的头发、形态优美的双眼，等等这些东西吗？ 美存在于某个大师的画作中吗？ 美存在于一首优美动人的诗歌中吗？ 什么是美？ 因为如果你没有那种深邃和明澈的品质 ——那种品质是美带来的—— 爱也会失去意义，因为它俩是如影随形的。 所以我们必须非常小心地探询 ——如果你内心深处是认真的——什么是美。 当心灵处于冲突中时，美还会存在吗？ 当你被问题困扰——一个问题或者很多问题——那时美还会存在吗？ 还是说，当“你”不在那里，美就出现了。 你是否曾经眺望宏伟的山脉——那种威严、高贵、 岿然不动？当你看着它的时候， 在那一刻，它的庄严驱散了你所有的问题 ——就那一瞬间。 也就是，在那一刻，你和你所有的问题都不在了。 于是你说，这是多么不可思议的事啊。 在那里，那种外在的宏伟驱赶了你的卑微琐碎。 那时，那种无限、宏伟的感受， 那种无法言表的伟大境界 把你生活中渺小琐碎的问题搁置在了一边。 就像一个小孩玩着玩具，那个玩具接管了他； 在那一刻，他忘记了一切，或者他被玩具完全吸引住了。 我们同样也在被某个东西吸引着，逃避了自己 ——这种被吸引就是逃避。你现在正被我的演讲所吸引。 所以暂时来说，你很安静，等等这些。 所以当你和你的问题、你的焦虑、 你的孤独、你的依附 都不在了，美就出现了。 当有了美和爱， 生活就会变成一种不可思议的运动。
1:00:56 I think we better stop now. We’ll discuss next Saturday the ending of sorrow, what death means, what is meditation, if there is at all something that is utterly beyond all words, beyond all time, and that which is sacred. We’ll talk about it Saturday and Sunday. May we get up? 我想我们最好就此打住。 下个星期六我们将讨论悲伤的结束， 死亡意味着什么，什么是冥想， 以及是否真的存在着某种完全超越了所有语言， 超越了所有时间的神圣事物。 我们会在星期六和星期天来探讨。 我们可以起来了吗？