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OJ82T6 - 生命中可有任何神圣之物?
第六次公开讲话
美国,加州,欧亥
1982年5月16日



0:25 I do wonder why you have all come. Is it out of curiosity? Or, it’s a lovely morning, it’s an outing for you. Or, are we serious enough to face all our problems, which are mounting, and find out for ourselves if we can resolve them? And as it is not possible to have a discussion with so many people or have a dialogue, then we can have a conversation together, which is, that you and the speaker are walking along a shady lane full of shadows and running waters, and are talking about their own problems, problems which confront all humanity, not only each one of us, but also what every human being in the world is going through. And as we were pointing out yesterday, we have assumed our consciousness as being something separate, personal, individual. But as one observes deeply, this consciousness, which is the common ground of all humanity, the common suffering, pain, anxiety, loneliness and great uncertainty and the everlasting search for security, is the problem of every human being in the world. It’s not your particular problem, it’s the problem, the issue of all human beings, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Buddhist. 我真的很想知道你们都是为什么来, 是出于好奇吗? 或者,这是一个宜人的早晨,你来郊游了。 或者,我们是否足够认真, 能够去面对我们日益增长的所有问题, 然后亲自去发现我们是否可以解决它们? 因为要与这么多的人进行一场讨论 或一次对话是不可能的, 所以接下来我们可以进行这样一场谈话, 也就是,你和讲话者一起漫步在林荫小道上, 那里绿树成荫、流水潺潺, 然后一起来谈谈我们自己的问题, 那些全人类都面对着的问题, 不仅是我们每个人的问题, 同样也是这个世界上每一个人在经历的问题。 而就如我们昨天所指出的, 我们已经假定自己的意识 是某种分离的、私人的、个体的东西了。 但是当一个人深入地观察这种意识时 ——这种意识是全人类所共有的—— 共同的苦难、痛苦、焦虑、孤独、巨大的不确定 和永无休止地寻找安全感, 这是这个世界上每一个人的问题。 它并不是你特定的问题, 它们是全人类的问题 ——不管他们是基督教徒、穆斯林、印度教徒还是佛教徒。
4:00 So we are talking over together amicably, in a friendly spirit, the issues of our life. And as this is the last talk, we cannot go over all the things we have had a conversation about during the last five talks. But we can summarise the whole thing. Most of us are apt to take one special problem and try to resolve it. Or come here hoping that someone else will help you to overcome or resolve or transcend one’s particular problem. But if one examines more acutely, critically, every problem is related to all problems. They are interrelated; they cannot possibly be separated and, having separated them, try to resolve them individually or separatively. We talked about various things during the last five talks: fear, the nature of human beings who have been hurt all their life, psychologically, inwardly, and the consequences of that hurt. We went into that very, very carefully. 所以我们是在一起友好地讨论, 以一种友善的态度来讨论我们生活中的问题。 由于这是最后一次谈话, 所以我们无法再去重温 过去五次谈话中讲过的所有内容了。 但是我们可以把它总结一下。 我们大多数人都倾向于拿出一个特定的问题然后试图去解决它。 或者来到这里,希望别人可以帮助你战胜、 解决或者超越你自己特定的问题。 但是如果我们能够更加敏锐,更具批判性地检视一下, 就会发现每一个问题都是和所有其他问题联系在一起的。 它们是彼此关联的,你不可能把它们分开,然后 在分开它们以后,试图单个地、分别地去解决它们。 在过去的五次谈话中,我们谈了许多话题: 恐惧和一生都在遭受伤害的 ——心理上、内在的伤害——人类的本质, 以及那种伤害造成的后果。 我们非常非常仔细地探讨了这些。
6:15 And also we talked about relationship between human beings – man, woman, the neighbour, whether that neighbour be very, very far away. And in that relationship, however intimate, however personal, there is always conflict, there is always a certain sense of uneasiness, fear, domination, possessiveness, attachment. All these breed naturally struggle between two human beings. Conflict arises; and we went into that question whether that conflict can possibly end, or must it everlastingly continue from generation to generation? And also we talked about fear, which is a very, very complex problem. The contributory causes of that fear: conformity, comparison, imitation, trying to be something that you are not, and other factors bring about fear. We went into that very deeply. And also we talked about the continuation and the demand for pleasure, whether it is the religious pleasure or ordinary pleasure of life: sexual, the form of achievement, success, possession, money, prestige, status, and all that. 我们也谈到了人类之间的关系 ——男人、女人还有邻居之间的关系, 不管那个邻居是不是在非常遥远的地方。 在那种关系中——不管多么亲近、私密—— 总是会有冲突, 总是会有某种不安的感觉, 某种恐惧、支配、占有和依恋的感觉。 所有这些很自然就会引起两个人之间的斗争, 由此冲突便产生了,我们也已经探讨过那个问题了, 那就是这种冲突是否可能结束, 还是说它只能永无休止地、世世代代地延续下去? 我们也讨论了恐惧 这个非常非常复杂的问题, 那些促成恐惧的原因: 遵从、比较、模仿, 试图去变成某个与你现状不符的人, 以及其他带来恐惧的因素。我们非常深入地探究了它。 我们同样也谈到了欢愉的延续 和对欢愉的需要 ——不管是宗教的欢愉还是生活中普通的欢愉: 性快感、某种形式的成就、成功、占有、 金钱、声望、地位,所有这些。
8:19 And yesterday morning we went into the question: what is love. Why do human beings yesterday morning we talked about why human beings have destroyed that one perfume – the absolute necessity in life – without which life has no meaning whatsoever. You may have lots of money, enjoy yourself on the sea, go to various churches, follow various gurus, accept various philosophies as the way of your life, but without that quality and that perfume, that passion – which is different from lust – that comes about when there is love. We went into that sufficiently, extensively yesterday morning. 而昨天早上,我们探讨了这个问题:什么是爱。 为什么人类 昨天早上我们讨论了 为什么人类摧毁了那种芬芳 ——这种芬芳是生活所必需的—— 没有了它,生活就会变得毫无意义。 你或许有很多很多钱, 可以在海边享受人生,去不同的教堂, 跟随不同的古鲁,接受各种哲学来作为你的生活方式, 然而如果没有那种品质、那种芬芳、那种热情 ——这种热情不同于欲望,有了爱的时候它才会出现。 昨天早上我们已经充分地、全面地讨论过它了。
10:21 And also we talked about the ending of suffering: why human beings, so highly educated, in one direction so extraordinarily intelligent – in the technological world – why human beings who have lived on this marvellous earth millennia upon millennia, why they have not understood or ended suffering. Not only personal suffering but the suffering of mankind, where there is starvation, in Africa and in the East, in India, where poverty is destructive, degrading, and other economic problems which separate mankind. And we said without nationalism, a global interrelationship alone will solve all our outward economic social problems. We live on this earth together, it’s our earth, not the American earth, or the Russian earth, or the Hindu or the Buddhist or the Islamic world; it’s our earth, but we have divided it as the American, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, European and Hindu and so on. Where there is division – racial, economic, religious divisions – there must be conflict, there must be wars, and these wars have been going on for millions of years. And our intelligence, which we give to the technological world, we have not applied that intelligence to solve this problem of suffering. And we have the capacity, we have the energy, but apparently we are caught in a mechanistic world. Our culture is becoming more and more mechanical, it’s a mechanistic culture, which is not only where the machine becomes all-important, but also the culture, which is mechanistic, is to live a life of repetitiveness, to repeat over and over the same, with the same problems, with the same issues, with the same conflict. 我们同样也谈了痛苦的结束, 为什么人类——他受过如此高等的教育, 在某一个方面有如此高度的智慧 在技术领域—— 为什么人类 ——他已经在这个神奇的地球上生活了成千上万年—— 为什么还是无法了解痛苦或者结束痛苦, 不仅仅是个人的痛苦,也包括人类的痛苦 ——人类面临着饥饿的问题,在非洲和东方,在印度, 那里的贫穷正在摧毁着一切,败坏着一切, 还有其他那些分离了人类的经济问题。 而我们说,如果没有国家主义, 那么那种全球化的人类关系本身 就能够解决所有我们外在的经济社会问题。 我们一起生活在这个地球上,这是我们的地球,而不是美国人的地球、 俄国人的地球,或者印度教徒、佛教徒、伊斯兰教徒的地球; 它是我们大家的地球,但是我们却把它划分为了美国人、俄国人、 中国人、日本人、欧洲人和印度人等等。 当有了区分——种族的、经济的、宗教的区分—— 就一定会有冲突,一定会有战争, 那些战争已经持续了有上百万年了。 而我们的智慧——我们把聪明才智都投入到了科技领域, 我们从未运用那种智慧来解决我们痛苦的问题。 我们有那种能力,我们有那种能量, 但很显然我们身陷于一个机械化的世界中。 我们的文明正在变得越来越机械化, 这是一种机械的文明, 不仅是机器变得无比重要, 同样我们的文明——它是机械化的—— 就是去过一种重复的生活, 去一遍又一遍地重复同样的事,带着同样的问题、 同样的争端、同样的冲突。
14:01 And we also talked yesterday, and we shall go into it more deeply this morning, why human beings have become what they are: shallow, superficial, having learned a great deal of life, accumulated a great deal of knowledge, and that knowledge apparently has not solved our human, daily conflict. So knowledge may be one of the factors of sorrow, which we talked about yesterday morning. 而我们昨天也谈到了 ——今天早晨我们将会更深入地来探讨—— 为什么人类会变成现在这个样子:浅薄、肤浅。 我们学习了很多关于生活的东西,积累了无数的知识, 而那种知识很显然并没有解决我们人类日常的冲突。 因此知识或许就是带来悲伤的因素之一 ——这个我们昨天早上已经谈过了。
14:57 And we shall go into some other subjects this morning. But first, please, this is not a lecture, as it is generally understood. Lecture being, talking about a particular subject and being concerned with that subject to transmit it as clearly as possible to another. So this is not a lecture but rather a conversation between you and the speaker in which both of us are observing, thinking about the same problem, looking at the same mountain, the same trees, the blue sky, and so we are together, the speaker means that, honestly, together to observe these problems and to find out for ourselves, not according to some philosopher, not according to some priest, not according to authority of a guru and so on. To discard all that completely and observe for ourselves why we human beings have become so deplorably unhealthy psychologically. So please, though the speaker may put certain things into words, but the words are not the actual, the explanation is not that which is explained. As we talked about the other day too, we are caught in a network of words. And words become extraordinarily important: the word ‘American’ has an extraordinary significance to the people who live in this part of the world. Or the word ‘Communist’, ‘Socialist’, ‘Capitalist’, and so on, Baptist and Catholic. So words are not the actuality. The symbol is not the actual. So please, if one may point out most respectfully, what we are explaining, what we are going into, is merely explanation, usage of certain words, but the words, the explanation are not the real. 今天早上我们将会探讨一些其他的主题。 但是首先,请你注意,这不是一次讲座 ——通常人们所理解的讲座, 就是去谈论一个特定的主题, 去关注那个主题,然后 尽可能清楚地把它传达给别人。 所以这并不是一次讲座, 而是一次你和讲话者之间的交谈, 在交谈中,我们两个在观察、思考着同样的问题, 看着同样的山脉、同样的树木和蓝天, 所以我们是在一起 ——讲话者是很认真地、很真诚地在说:一起—— 去观察这些问题,然后自己去发现真相, 而不是根据某个哲学家、某个牧师、 某个古鲁的权威等等。 把这一切完全抛开 然后自己去观察为什么我们人类 会在心理上变得如此可悲可叹的不健康。 所以拜托你,虽然讲话者或许会用语言来表达, 但是文字并非真实, 解释并非那个被解释之物。 就像我们前几天也讲到过的,我们深陷于文字的罗网中。 文字已经变得无比重要: “美国人”这三个字 对于生活在这片土地上的人来说具有一种非凡的意义。 还有“共产主义者”、“社会主义者”、“资本主义者” 等等这些,也包括“浸信会”、“天主教”。 所以文字并不是事实, 符号并不是真实。 所以请注意——如果我可以非常礼貌地指出来的话—— 我们所解释的东西,我们所探讨的东西, 都仅仅只是解释,使用了某些文字, 但是文字、解释并不是真实之物。
18:42 We ought to talk over together what is culture. The ordinary meaning of that word is to cultivate, as you cultivate vegetables, a garden, a rose bed. Culture implies, not a repetitive, mechanical existence, but to be free from the known and act from that freedom – that is actually culture. That is, we live always in the known. Please, kindly follow all this if you are interested. It’s a nice morning, and you may treat this gathering as an entertainment, which would be most unfortunate, as a kind of mental stimulation, a drug. But if you treat this as a form of stimulation, then you lose the reality of one’s own life, of one’s own shallowness, one’s own emptiness, one’s own fears, anxieties, and all the travail of life. So please, as the speaker puts it into words, examine that which he says for yourself. Because doubt, scepticism, is a great purifier. Most of us so easily accept things, specially in religious matters and so-called spiritual matters. There, authority assumes it knows and you don’t know. They act as interpreters. But it is necessary to discover what is truth – there must be doubt. And doubt in the Eastern world, in the Eastern religions, has been emphasised. In the Christian world doubt is an anathema, because if you doubt the whole structure of the church, whether it be local or from Rome or any other, if you doubt it then the whole thing collapses. So, in the Western world, doubt has been condemned; they have been burnt, those who doubted – called heresy – they have been tortured; as they are doing now to political prisoners in various parts of the world, it is the same phenomena. So, please don’t accept a thing that the speaker is saying but try to find out for yourself by carefully listening, if you are interested, if you don’t treat this as an entertainment. Then please listen and doubt and question and ask. You are doubting that which you have created yourself, you are doubting your own ideas, your own conclusions, your own experiences, your beliefs, your faiths. You are doubting so that you find out for yourself what is truth. 我们应该来一起讨论一下什么是文明。 这个词通常的意义是去培育, 就像你种植蔬菜、培育一个花园、一片玫瑰花圃那样。 文明并不意味着一种重复的、机械化的生活, 而是摆脱已知,然后从那种自由中行动; 这其实才是文明。 也就是,我们总是活在已知中。 拜托,请跟上这一切——如果你有兴趣的话。 这是一个美好的早晨,而你或许会把这次集会当成是一次娱乐消遣 ——这是最不幸的事—— 把它作为一种精神上的刺激,一种精神鸦片。 但是如果你把它当成是一种获得刺激的方式, 那么你就错过了了解你自己生活的真相, 错过了了解你自己的肤浅、你自己的空虚、 你自己的恐惧、焦虑和生活中所有艰辛痛苦的真相。 所以拜托,当讲话者把它用文字表达出来的时候, 请你自己去检查他所说的。 因为疑问和怀疑是一种强力的净化剂。 我们大多数人都如此轻易地接受了各种事物,特别是对于宗教事物 和所谓的灵性事物。 在那里某个权威假定它知道一切,而你什么都不知道。 他们来充当诠释者的角色。 然而我们需要的是去发现什么是真理,所以必须要去质疑。 质疑在东方世界、在东方的宗教里 一直被加以强调。 而在基督教里,质疑会遭到谴责, 因为如果你质疑教会的整个组织架构 ——不管它是本地教会还是罗马教会或者任何其他教会—— 如果你质疑它,那么它的整个体系就会崩溃。 所以在西方,质疑的人会被判死刑; 他们会被烧死,他们被称为异端邪说, 他们会被严刑拷打 ——就像现在人们对那些政治犯所做的那样, 世界各地的人们对政治犯所做的那样—— 这是同样的现象。 所以请不要接受讲话者所说的任何一件事, 而是试着自己去发现, 通过认真的聆听去发现——如果你对此有兴趣, 如果你没有把这当成是一次娱乐消遣的话。 所以请你去聆听,然后去怀疑、质疑和发问。 你在质疑那些你自己创造出来的东西, 你在质疑你自己的观念、你自己的结论、 你自己的经验、你的信仰、你的信念。 你在质疑,由此你就能亲自发现什么是真理。
23:49 And that is very important, because truth demands a free mind, a mind that is completely free. And there is no path to truth, so please, as we are going into this very complex problem, let us listen carefully, with a certain quality of doubt. To doubt requires sensitivity. If you doubt everything, then it becomes rather stupid. But to doubt with a light hand, with a quick mind, with subtlety, then that doubt brings about clarity, energy. And we need energy to go into all these problems, to resolve them. 这是非常重要的, 因为真理需要的是一个自由的心灵, 一个彻底自由的心灵。 而没有任何道路可以通向真理, 所以请注意,当我们在探究这个非常非常复杂的问题时, 让我们认真地聆听,同时带着某种怀疑的态度。 质疑需要你具有敏感性。 如果每一样东西你都去质疑,那就太蠢了。 然而如果你以一双巧手、一颗敏锐的心,巧妙地去质疑, 那么那种质疑就会带来明澈和能量。 而我们需要能量去探究所有这些问题,去解决它们。
25:16 So we are asking, what is culture? Is it merely the mechanical repetition of the known? Which is, we live in the past, the past is our memory, the past is our knowledge through experience, and we live always in the past, in the known. And when we act from the known, it is repetitive. We must act in certain areas with knowledge; like a scientist, he has to have a great deal of knowledge; or a great surgeon must have experience, he must have operated upon many, accumulated knowledge, skill, and the sensitivity of hand – there knowledge is necessary. And knowledge, which is all our remembrances, all the past incidents, the hurts, the fears, the longings, the despairs, the desperate loneliness – all that is part of our past knowledge. And when we are acting from the past, it must be repetitive. And therefore the mind becomes mechanical. The computer is a repetitive machine, maybe quicker, faster than the human brain, but that machine is repetitive, as we human beings are. And so we are questioning any culture born from the past, from the known – obviously it is mechanical, repetitive. And so we are going to find out what is it that brings about a culture which is totally different from the mechanistic culture which we have accepted for thousands of years. Most of our minds, with some rare exceptions, are mediocre – forgive me if I use that word. One may think one is extraordinarily out of that class, but to think that you are out of that class is also a form of mediocrity. This is not an insult. We are examining together. 所以我们在问,什么是文明? 它仅仅是已知事物的机械化的反应吗? 也就是,我们是生活在过去中的——过去就是我们的记忆, 过去就是我们经由经验而获得的知识, 而我们总是活在过去中,活在已知中; 当我们从已知中行动时,那种行动是重复性的。 在某些领域里,我们必须带着知识行动; 就像科学家,他必须拥有大量的知识; 或者一个优秀的外科医生,他必须要有手术经验, 他必须曾经为很多人动过手术,积累了知识和技巧, 还需要双手的灵敏度, 在这里知识是必需的。 而知识——它就是我们所有的记忆, 所有过去的事件、伤害、 恐惧、渴望、绝望、极度的孤独 ——所有这些都是我们过往知识的一部分。 而当我们从过去中行动时, 它必定是重复的。 因此心灵就变得机械化了。 电脑就是一台不断重复的机器, 或许比人类的大脑更敏捷、更迅速, 然而那台机器是重复性的——就和我们人类一样。 所以我们在质疑任何 来自于过去、来自于已知的文明; 很显然那种文明是机械化的、重复性的。 所以我们要去找出什么东西才能带来文明 ——这种文明完全不同于那种机械化的文明, 那种几千年来我们所接受的文明。 我们大多数人的心灵——除了极个别的之外——都是平庸的; 请原谅我使用这个词。 有人或许认为自己是完全脱离那个平庸阶层的, 但是认为自己是脱离那个阶层的, 这种想法也是一种平庸。 这并非侮辱。 我们是在一起检视。
29:07 What is it to be mediocre? The word ‘mediocre’ comes from Greek, Latin, ‘climbing halfway up the mountain’. That’s the real meaning of that word, ‘mediocre’, never climbing all the way up, but being satisfied to climb halfway or one-third of the way. That is the meaning of that word ‘mediocre’. And our education, however wide, whatever knowledge one acquires through a particular subject, all these factors of education are limiting the mind. Have you noticed how, specially in this country, which is spreading this fact all over the rest of the world, how specialists, scientific specialists, the doctors, the surgeons, the philosophers, the psychologists and so on, they are ruling each one of us. They are the authority to tell you what to do. They are the experts: how to bring up a baby, how to have sexual relationship properly, how to make up your face. There are these authorities, and we all obey them. Our obedience has at certain times a revolt, but that revolt is merely a reaction and so it’s not complete comprehension of the understanding that all specialised knowledge is limited, as all knowledge is limited. And a culture born out of this limitation is no culture at all. There’s no American culture, or European culture. They can go back to the Renaissance, to the past history, but deep culture of the mind can only come about through freedom from the known. Can there be such freedom? 什么是平庸? “平庸”这个词来自于希腊语、拉丁文, 它的意思是“爬山爬到一半”。 这就是这个词——平庸——的真正含义, 从来不一直往上爬, 而是满足于爬到半山腰,或者爬到三分之一的高度。 这就是这个词——平庸——的意思。 而我们的教育——不管多么包罗万象, 也无论我们通过一门特定的课程获得了怎样的知识—— 所有这些教育的要素都制约着心灵。 你难道没有注意到那些专家是如何——特别是在这个国家, 而这种现象正蔓延到世界的每个角落—— 那些专家: 科学家、医生、外科医师、哲学家、 心理学家等等——他们是如何支配着我们每一个人的。 他们是权威,来告诉你该怎么做。 他们是专家:指导你如何抚养小孩, 如何正确地发生性关系, 如何给你的脸化妆; 有着这些权威人士,而我们都听他们的。 我们的顺从某些时候也会变为反抗, 然而那种反抗仅仅是一种反应, 所以它并不是彻底的了悟——明白 所有专业化的知识都是局限的, 就如所有的知识都是局限的一样。 而一种诞生于这种局限事物的文明根本不是文明。 并不存在什么美国文明,或者欧洲文明。 他们可以追溯到文艺复兴,追溯过去的历史, 然而心灵的深层文明 只有通过摆脱已知才会产生。 我们能够有这样的自由吗?
32:28 We are going to talk about it together because only from a religion a new culture can come into being. Religion is not the authoritarian, the accepted form of religion: the state religion, the religion of belief, of faith, of dogma, of rituals, of worship a symbol – that is not religion, obviously. So we are going to enquire into what is religion. Do you understand? We’ve enquired into fear, into the nature of that extraordinary thing called love, whether human beings can ever end their suffering, their misery, their anxiety. And also we should enquire together into what is religion. 我们会一起来讨论这个问题, 因为只有从宗教中 才会诞生出一种新的文明。 宗教并不是权威主义——那种人们公认的宗教形式。 国家宗教、宗教信仰、 宗教信念、宗教教条、宗教仪式、崇拜某个符号 ——显而易见,这些都不是宗教。 所以我们要来探询一下什么是宗教。 你明白吗? 我们已经探询了恐惧, 探询了那个被称之为爱的非凡事物的本质, 人类是否有可能结束他们的痛苦、 他们的苦难、他们的焦虑。 而同样的,我也应该一起来探询什么是宗教。
34:08 Man worships. there are still those people in the East who worship a tree, who worship a mountain. They give it in India to the Himalayas a special peace, a special name. And they worshipped at one time the earth, the trees, the heavens, the sun – as the Egyptians did. But we consider all that illusion, nonsense. And as we are so terribly sophisticated, we worship a symbol, pray to that symbol, to that saviour or, as in India, it’s another form of the same thing. Worship has been part of human life from the ancient of days. You may not worship a tree, but you go to the church or to a temple or a mosque and there you pray, you worship. There is not much difference between the worship of a tree, which is alone in a marvellous field of green earth, and the symbol that thought has created in the church, in the temple, or in a mosque. There is not much difference between the two because man suffers, he is in trouble, he doesn’t know to whom to turn to, so he invents a comforting god, which is, thought invents a god, and then worships that which he has invented. These are facts, whether you like it or not. You invent the whole rituals of Christianity, as in India, there are complicated rituals. And it is the invention of thought. And then thought says, that is divine revelation. I do not know if you have not noticed, in Asia, which includes India, and here, divine revelation plays an extraordinary part. But that divinity is brought about by thought. The interpreter of that divinity is the priest. He thinks and his thought has created various forms of rituals. 人类一直在崇拜, 在东方,仍然有一些人在崇拜树木、 崇拜一座大山。 在印度,人们赋予喜马拉雅山一种特殊的平静、一个特别的名字。 他们也曾经崇拜大地、 树木、天空和太阳——就和埃及人所做的一样。 但是我们认为这一切都是错觉,是荒谬的。 而因为我们是如此可怕地复杂, 所以我们去崇拜一个符号,向那个符号祈祷, 向那个救世主祈祷——就像在印度一样——都是换汤不换药的东西。 自古以来,崇拜一直是人类生活的一部分。 你或许不会去崇拜一棵树, 但是你会去教堂、去寺庙或者清真寺, 你会在那里去祈祷、崇拜。 这两者并没有很大的不同:崇拜一棵树 ——那棵屹立在绿色地球的美丽旷野之上的孤树—— 和崇拜思想在教堂里、 在寺庙或者清真寺里创造出来的符号 ——这两者之间并没有多大区别。 因为人类在受苦,他处于困境之中, 他不知道该向谁求助, 于是他发明了一个安慰他的上帝, 也就是说,是思想发明了上帝, 然后思想去崇拜那个他发明出来的东西。 这些都是事实——不管你是否喜欢。 你们发明了基督教的整套仪式, 就像在印度一样,印度也有着很多复杂的仪式。 而它们是思想的发明。 然后思想说,那是神明的启示。 我不知道你是否已经注意到了这点, 那就是在亚洲——包括印度——还有这里, 神明的启示扮演着一个无比重要的角色。 但是那种神性是思想所带来的。 那种神性的诠释者就是牧师。 他在思考,他的思想创造出了各种形式的仪式。
38:21 So we are asking, is religion all this? Is religion based upon books, the printed word? Where religion is based on a book, whether it is the Christian, Hindu or Muslim, or the Buddhist, then there is dogma; the authority of the book becomes all-important; there is bigotry, narrowness of mind. Both the Muslim world and the Christian world are based on books: the Koran and the Bible. In India, fortunately for them, they have got a hundred books, hundred gods – no, more than that, three hundred thousand gods. Don’t please laugh. This is very serious. It sounds funny. And there they are tolerant, which means they put up with anything: false gods, true gods, any kind of illusion, any kind of assertions of any so-called religious man. Here in the West, as in the Muslim world, the book plays an extraordinarily important part. And therefore those who believe in the book, deeply convinced by every word in that book, they become bigoted, dogmatic, assertive, aggressive, and if they are not semi-civilised, they will kill. This is happening in the world. So is religion – the word ‘religion’, the etymological meaning of that word, is unknown. It arises from certain Latin words, which we’ll not go into, but it actually means, according to certain dictionaries, the capacity to gather all your energy to discover, to come upon that which is true. That is the root meaning of that word. So we are gathering our energy – all our energy, not a specialised energy, the energy of thought, the energy of emotions, the passionate energy – to enquire into what is truth. 所以我们在问,宗教就是所有这些东西吗? 宗教是建立在书本,建立在印刷文字上的吗? 当宗教建立在书本的基础上 ——不管是基督教、印度教、伊斯兰教还是佛教的书本—— 那么它就成为了教条,书本的权威变得至关重要; 由此心灵就变得偏执和狭隘了。 伊斯兰教世界和基督教世界都是建立在书本上的: 《古兰经》和《圣经》。 而印度——那里的人还真“幸运”—— 他们有上百本书、上百个神 ——不,比这还要多,他们有三十万个神。 请不要笑。这非常严肃,虽然听起来很好笑。 人们在那里彼此宽容,这意味着他们容忍任何事: 假神、真神,任何一种幻觉, 任何所谓宗教人士的任何主张。 而在西方,就像在伊斯兰教世界里那样, 书本扮演着一个极度重要的角色。 因此那些相信书本的人, 那些深信书中每一个字的人, 他们变得固执、教条、独断、咄咄逼人, 要不是因为他们多少还有点儿文明,他们早就大开杀戒了。 这就是世界上正在发生的事。 所以宗教——“宗教”这个词, 它词源的意思是未知。 它来自于某些拉丁文——这个我们就不深入了, 但是它真正的意思——根据某些辞典的解释—— 是能够聚集起你所有的能量去发现、 去遇见那个真实的事物。 这就是这个词根源的意思。 所以我们正在聚集起我们的能量, 我们所有的能量——而不是一种专门的能量—— 聚集起我们思想的能量、情感的能量、热情的能量 去探寻什么是真理。
42:07 And to go into it deeply, we must enquire also into what is thought, which has invented all the religions in the world. All the rituals, all the dogmas, the beliefs, the faiths – it is the result of thought. There is nothing divine about anything. Thought can say what I have invented is divine. But thought is not sacred, is not holy. So it is important to go into this question of what is thought. We have gone into it previously but the more you look at it, the more you enquire into the very nature of thought, the more complicated, the more it demands a subtle mind, it demands a quickness of mind, not a mechanical mind, not a mind that accepts, not a mind that acquiesces, but a mind that is doubtful, questioning, demanding, has this great energy. And when you give this total energy – not an energy which is partial because you are interested in some form of entertainment, or in some form of relief, in some form of comfort, then it is all partial energy. Whereas if you demand totally to understand the nature of human mind, why we live the way we are living, destroying the earth, destroying ourselves, wars, misery, then you have to give all your energy. And where there is this total energy, complete passion to understand, to find out a way of living which is totally different from mechanistic, repetitive way. 而要深入地探究它, 我们也必须去探询什么是思想, 是思想发明了世界上所有的宗教。 所有的仪式、所有的教条、信仰和信念 ——它们都是思想的产物。 没有任何一样事物是神圣的。 思想可以说,我所发明的东西是神圣的。 但思想本身就不是神圣的、圣洁的。 所以去探究这个关于什么是思想的问题是很重要的。 我们之前已经研究过了,然而你越是去审视它, 你越是去探询思想的本质, 这个问题就会显得越复杂, 它就越需要一个细致的心灵,需要一颗敏捷的心, 不是一个机械化的心灵、不是一个全盘接受的心灵、 不是一个默许的心灵, 而是一个在不断质疑、怀疑、查问的心灵 ——这样的心灵才会有那种巨大的能量。 而当你付出了这种完整的能量——它不是一种局部的能量, 只是因为你对某种娱乐形式感兴趣, 或者对某种信仰、某种安慰感兴趣 ——这些全都是局部的能量。 然而如果你需要的是去完全了解人类心灵的本质, 为什么我们要像现在这样生活 ——破坏地球,毁灭自己,战争、痛苦, 那么你就必须付出你全部的能量。 当有了这种完全的能量, 我们就会有充分的热情去了解,去找到一种生活方式 ——它完全不同于那种机械化的、重复性的生活方式。
45:04 So we have to go into this question deeply once again: what is thought, why thought plays such an extraordinary importance in our life, in our relationship. Is thought love? Please enquire with the speaker; really the speaker is putting your question, it is not his question. You are putting this question for yourself. Thought has created the marvellous cathedrals, magnificent structures in Europe and some of them here. And thought also has put all those things inside the cathedrals and the churches and the temples and the mosques. So one asks: is thought sacred? Because it has put all this in these buildings and then you worship it. I wonder if one sees the illusion of this, the ironic, actual deception, that thought has invented the symbol, the ritual, the host, and the different things in India and Asia; thought has been responsible for all this – some of it being copied from the ancient Egyptians, from India, and so on. And then thought, having created this marvellous structure in stone, then inside it is all the symbols, the agony, and in the Asiatic world a different symbol. Then thought says, you must worship that. So we are asking, is thought sacred in itself? Or, it is merely – please listen to it, you may not agree, do not agree but enquire – is thought a material process? If it is not sacred, then it is a material process. But thought has invented these: heaven and hell, the saviours of the world, according to different religions, their rituals – it is all the result of thought. And then thought turns around and says, you must worship it. So we must find out for ourselves, not according to any authority in spiritual, religious matters. There is authority of the surgeon, that’s a totally different matter. But to discover, to come upon that which is eternal, if there is such thing as eternity, your mind must be free in all spiritual matters, in all psychic matters. That is, in the psychological realm, which is you, there must be total freedom to find out. 所以我们必须再次深入这个问题:什么是思想? 为什么思想会扮演一个如此 重要的角色——在我们的生活中,在我们的关系中。 思想是爱吗? 请和讲话者一起去询问, 讲话者所提出的其实是你的问题, 而不是他的问题。 你是在向自己提出这个问题。 思想已经创造出了气势恢宏的大教堂, 欧洲那些有着宏伟结构的教堂——在这里也有一些; 而思想同样也把所有那些东西放到了大教堂中, 放到了教堂、寺庙和清真寺里。 所以我们问:思想是神圣的吗? 因为是它把这一切放到了这些建筑中,然后你们去崇拜它。 我不知道我们是否看到了这其中的虚幻,这种讽刺和昭然若揭的欺骗, 那就是思想已经发明出了符号、仪式、圣体 以及印度和亚洲的各种不同的东西; 思想要对这一切负责, 其中的一些是从古代埃及人、 从印度等等那些地方抄袭过来的。 思想用石头创造出了这种宏伟的结构, 然后在它里面塞满了各种符号和痛苦 ——在亚洲世界则是另一套的符号; 接着思想说,你必须去崇拜它。 所以我们在问,思想本身是神圣的吗? 或者它仅仅是——请听好,你或许会不同意; 不要同意,而是去探询——思想是一种物质化的过程吗? 如果思想不是神圣的,那么它就是一种物质化的过程。 但思想已经发明出了这些东西:天堂和地狱、世界的救世主 ——不同的宗教有不同的救世主, 不同的宗教仪式——它们都是思想的产物。 然后思想转过身来说,你必须崇拜它。 所以我们必须自己去发现, 而不是根据任何灵性或者宗教方面的权威。 外科医生也有权威——但那完全是另外一回事。 然而要去发现,去遇见那个永恒之物 ——如果存在永恒这回事的话—— 你的心灵就必须不受所有灵性事物 和灵异事物的束缚; 也就是,在心理的领域——心理的领域就是你—— 你必须有完全的自由才能去发现真相。
49:32 So we are going to enquire together the nature of thought. If you have no thought at all, you live in a state of amnesia, blankness, but that is a rare form of disease. But most human beings throughout the world, whether they are Hindus, Buddhists, Christians and so on, communists, the common factor is thought. They all think, whether they are extremely poor, uneducated, or the highly sophisticated, accumulated professor, or the cunning politician, or the highest authority of the church – they all think, as each one of us does, in our daily life. And that thought dominates our life. So it is very, very important, if one may point out, to understand the whole movement of thought. It has created great poetry, great painting, great sculpture, literature, and thought is necessary to do business, to drive a car and so on. What is thought? What is its origin, the beginning of thought? You are asking the question, not the speaker. Please, apply your own minds, brain, to enquire into this question. Because thought dominates every action in our life. Thought is the determining factor in relationship. So what is that thing called thought, the thinking machinery and the origin of it? 所以我们要一起来探询思想的本质。 如果你完全没有思想,你就是活在一种健忘和空白的状态中, 但这是一种极其罕见的疾病。 而对于全世界大多数人来说 ——不管他们是印度教徒、佛教徒、基督教徒等等,还是共产主义者—— 一个共同的因素就是思想。 他们都会思考——不管他们是穷得一贫如洗,没有受过教育的人, 还是见多识广、积累了大量知识的教授; 不管他们是狡猾精明的政治家, 还是教会的最高权威,等等——他们都会思考, 就像我们每个人在日常生活中所做的那样。 那种思想支配着我们的生活。 所以这一点非常非常重要——如果我可以指出来的话—— 那就是要去了解思想的整个运动。 思想创造出了优美的诗歌、杰出的绘画、伟大的雕塑和文学作品, 而思想在做生意、驾驶汽车等等方面也是必需的。 那么什么是思想? 思想的源头和起点是什么? 是你在问这个问题,而不是讲话者。 拜托了,请运用你自己的心灵、大脑去探询这个问题。 因为思想支配着我们生活中的每一个行动。 思想是关系中最具决定性的因素。 所以那个叫做思想的东西是什么, 思考的机制以及它的源头是什么?
52:14 Is not thought born out of memory? You remember where you live, the distance to be covered from here to where you are going, that’s knowledge, and that knowledge has been acquired through experience. So the beginning of thought is experience, knowledge, memory, stored up in the brain. Right? This is a fact, not exotic or absurd illusion. You remember something that happened yesterday, pleasurable or not, and that remembrance is stored in the brain, recorded in the brain, and from that record thought comes into being. So thought, whatever it does, is not sacred. It is a material process. Some of the scientists even agree to what the speaker has been saying for many years. They have experimented on rats, pigeons, and guinea pigs, dogs but they don’t experiment upon themselves. We are also matter, and science is concerned with matter. And if thought is a material process and thought, whatever it does, whether in the religious field or in the business field or in preparing for wars through a gathering of armaments, is the result of thought. Thought has divided people into this type of religious person, this type of human being who lives in certain part of the world, and so on. It’s thought that has divided human beings. And thought, because of its divisive nature, because thought is never complete, because born of knowledge, and knowledge is never total about anything, therefore thought is always limited, and separative, because – I won’t go into all that – it’s separative. Where there is separative action, there must be conflict: between the communists and the socialists, and the capitalists; between the Arab and the Jew, between the Hindu and the Muslim, and so on. These are all the divisive process of thought, and where there is division – that’s a law – there must be conflict. So nothing that thought has put together, whether in a book, in the church, in the cathedrals, in the temples or in the mosques, is sacred. No symbol is sacred. And that is not religion; it’s merely a form of thoughtful, superficial reaction to that which is called sacred. 思想难道不是来自于记忆吗? 你记得你住的地方,知道从这里 到你要去的地方有多少路,这就是知识, 这种知识是通过经验而获得的。 所以思想的起点就是经验、知识、 记忆——它们被储存在大脑中。对吗? 这是一个事实,而不是什么奇异或者荒谬的幻想。 你记得一些昨天发生过的事——快乐的或者不快乐的, 而这种记忆被储存和记录在大脑中, 然后从那种记录中就产生了思想。 所以思想——无论它做什么——都不是神圣的。 它是一个物质化的过程。 甚至一些科学家也赞同 讲话者这么多年来一直在说的东西。 他们已经在小白鼠身上,在鸽子、豚鼠、小狗身上做了试验, 但他们并没有在自己身上做试验。 我们同样也是物质,而科学关心的就是物质。 如果思想就是一个物质化的过程, 并且思想,无论它做什么 ——不管是在宗教领域,还是在商业领域做的事, 或是通过囤积武器来为战争做准备—— 这些都是思想的结果。 思想已经把人类按照宗教信仰加以划分, 按照生活在世界的不同地方等等方式而加以划分。 正是思想划分了人类。 而思想——因为它分裂性的本质, 因为思想永远都不完整, 因为它是来自于知识的, 而任何事物的知识从不可能是完全的, 因此思想永远都是局限的、分裂性的, 因为——我就不深入讲所有这些了——它是分离性的。 无论哪里有了分离性的行动,就必然会有冲突: 在共产主义者和社会主义者之间,以及它们和资本主义者之间; 阿拉伯人和犹太人之间;印度教徒和伊斯兰教徒之间,等等。 这些全都是思想分裂性的过程, 而无论哪里有了分裂——这是一个铁律——就必然会有冲突。 所以思想所拼凑起来的任何东西 ——不管是在书本里、在小教堂里、大教堂里、 在寺庙还是在清真寺里——没有一个是神圣的。 没有一个符号是神圣的。 而这些并不是宗教, 它们仅仅是 对于那个所谓神圣事物的一种思想上的、肤浅的反应。
56:40 So we are going to find out, if we can this morning, giving our attention, our whole attention, to enquire what is sacred, if there is anything sacred at all. The intellectuals throughout the world deny all this. They are fed up with the religions, with their illusions and all that. They discard; they are rather cynical about the whole affair, because religious organisations throughout the world have great property, enormous wealth, great power – all that is not spiritual, all that is not religious. So, as we said, the word ‘religion’, the etymological meaning is unknown, but also the dictionary makes it clear that to enquire into what is truth one must gather all energy, the capacity to be diligent, to act, not according to a certain pattern, to diligently observe your thoughts, your feelings, your antagonisms, your fears and to go far beyond them, so that the mind is completely free. 所以我们要去发现——如果今天早上可以的话—— 去关注,全神贯注地 去探询什么是神圣——如果真的存在着所谓神圣的话。 全世界的知识分子都否定这一切。 他们对宗教感到厌烦,厌烦宗教的幻想等等这一切。 他们抛弃了宗教, 他们宁愿对所有这些事情冷嘲热讽, 因为全世界的宗教组织 都有着巨额的财产、巨大的财富和强大的权力 ——而这一切都不是灵性的,这一切都不是宗教性的。 所以就如我们说过的,“宗教”这个词, 它词源的意思是未知, 但词典也说明了它的含义,那就是去探询什么是真理, 一个人必须聚集起所有的能量 和能力去勤奋工作、去行动, 不是依照某个模式,而是去坚持不懈地观察你的思想、 你的感受、你的对立、你的恐惧, 然后去超越它们, 由此心灵就可以彻底地自由。
58:31 Now we are asking, is there anything sacred in life? Not invented by thought, because man, from time immeasurable, has always asked this question: is there something beyond all this confusion, misery, darkness, illusions, beyond the institutions and reforms; is there something really true, something beyond time, something so immense that thought cannot come to it? Man has enquired into this. And only apparently very, very few people have been free to enter into that world. And the priest from ancient of times comes in between the seeker and that which he is hoping to find. He interprets, he becomes the man who knows, or thinks he knows. And he is side-tracked, diverted, lost. 而现在我们问,生命中有任何神圣的东西吗? 不是由思想发明的东西, 因为人类自古以来, 就一直在问这个问题: 是否存在着某个东西——它超越了所有的混乱、 痛苦、黑暗、幻想, 超越了制度和变革; 是否存在某种真正真实的东西, 某种超越时间的东西, 某种如此无限以至于思想无法到达的东西? 人类已经探询了这个问题。 但很显然,只有极少数的人 可以自由地进入那个世界。 自古以来,牧师就介入到探求者 和他所希望找到的那个事物之间。 他会去解释,他成了那个知晓一切的人,或者自认为知道。 他已经走岔了、偏离了、迷失了。
1:00:16 So if we want to enquire into that which is most holy, which is nameless, timeless, one must obviously belong to no group, no religion, have no belief, no faith, because belief and faith is accepting as true something which does not or may not exist. That is the nature of belief: taking for granted, accepting something to be true. When your own enquiry, your own vitality, energy has not found out, you believe. Because in belief there is some form of security, comfort. But a man who is seeking merely psychological comfort, such a man will never come upon that which is beyond time. So there must be total freedom. Is that possible? To be free from all our conditioning, not biological conditioning – that’s natural – but the psychological conditioning: the hates, the antagonisms, the pride, all the things that bring about confusion, which is the very nature of the self which is thought? And to find out, there must be attention, not concentration. The word ‘meditation’ has been introduced into the Western world quite recently by some of those people who have accepted certain norms, certain patterns of meditation. There is the Zen meditation, the Tibetan form of meditation which is different from the southern form of Buddhist meditation, there is the meditation of the Hindus, with their special gurus, who again have their own forms of meditation. Then there is the Christian form, which is contemplation. And the meaning of that word, ‘meditation’, implies, the meaning of that word is ‘to ponder over, to think over’. And also, a meditative mind must be free of measurement. Please don’t go to sleep, if you are interested. That is, the mind that’s in meditation we’ll go into that a little later, if we have time. 所以如果我们想要探询那个最神圣的东西, 那个不可名状、超越时间的东西, 显然我们就一定不能属于任何团体, 不属于任何宗教,没有任何信仰、信念, 因为信仰和信念正被人们接受为某种真实的东西 ——这个东西并不存在或者也许是不存在的。 这就是信仰的本质: 认为某些东西是理所当然的,把某个东西接受为真实的东西。 当你还没有用自己的探询、自己的活力 和能量去弄清真相时,你就相信了。 因为在信仰中有着某种形式的安全感和安慰。 但一个只是在寻找心理安慰的人, 这样的人将永远无法偶遇那个超越时间之物。 所以必须要有一种完全的自由。 那么可不可能 挣脱我们所有的局限? 不是生理上的局限——生理局限是很自然的—— 而是摆脱心理上的局限: 仇恨、对立、骄傲 ——所有这些带来混乱的事物, 它们就是自我的本质——自我就是思想。 而要有所发现,就必须全神贯注,而不是专注。 “冥想”这个词最近被传入 到了西方世界 ——是一些已经接受了特定规范、 特定冥想模式的人们所引进的。 有禅宗冥想、藏传佛教的冥想 ——它和印度南部佛教的冥想有所不同—— 还有印度教徒的冥想以及他们各自特定的古鲁 ——这些古鲁也有着他们自己的冥想形式。 然后还有基督教的冥想——也就是默祷。 而“冥想”这个词的意思,它意味着, 这个词的意思是“去沉思、去深入思考”。 同样的,一个冥想的心灵必须要摆脱度量。 拜托,请不要睡着——如果你还有兴趣的话。 也就是,那个处在冥想中的心灵 首先——我们稍后再来探讨,如果我们有时间的话。
1:04:33 So all those people who have brought this word, with their systems, methods and practices, are again put together by careful thought. Perhaps one guru or two – those Asiatic birds – have some kind of experience; immediately that’s translated into some kind of a spiritual status, and they have their meditation. And they come here and you are gullible enough to swallow all that, paying for it – the more you pay, the greater the meditation. 因此所有那些带来了这个名词的人, 他们的体系、方法和练习, 同样也是由谨慎的思想拼凑起来的。 或许有一两个古鲁——那些来自于亚洲的家伙—— 有过某种经验, 然而它却立即被诠释成了某种精神境界, 于是他们就有了自己的冥想方法。 然后他们来到这里,而你们是如此容易受骗,轻易就接受了那些东西; 并且为此付钱 ——你钱付得越多,那个冥想就越高级。
1:05:25 So we ought to enquire into what is meditation – to meditate. It’s really important, because a mind that’s merely mechanistic, as thought is, can never come upon that which is totally, supreme order, and therefore a complete freedom. Like the universe is in total order, it is only the human mind that is in disorder. And so one has to have an extraordinarily orderly mind, a mind that has understood disorder – we went into that the other day – and is free completely from disorder, which is contradiction, imitation, conformity, and all the rest of it. Such a mind is an attentive mind, completely attentive to whatever it does, to all its actions, in its relationship, and so on. Attention is not concentration. Concentration is restricted, narrow, limited, whereas attention is limitless. And in that attention there is that quality of silence – not the silence invented by thought, not the silence that comes about after noise, not the silence of one thought waiting for another thought. There must be that silence which is not put together by desire, by will, by thought. And in that meditation there is no controller. And this is one of the factors in all the so-called meditative groups: in the systems they have invented there is always effort, control, discipline. Discipline means to learn – not to conform – to learn so that your mind becomes more and more subtle, not based on knowledge – learning is a constant movement. So meditation is freedom from the known, which is the measure. And in that meditation, there is absolute silence. Then in that silence alone, that which is nameless is. 所以我们应当来探询一下什么是冥想 ——去冥想。 这真的很重要,因为一个心灵, 如果它不过是机械化的——就像思想一样—— 它就永远无法邂逅那个本身即是完整的、至高的秩序, 从而彻底自由的事物。 就像整个宇宙处于一种绝对的秩序之中, 只有人类的心灵才会处于混乱中。 所以我们必须拥有一个有着非凡秩序的心灵, 一个了解了混乱的心灵——我们前几天已经讨论过了—— 它彻底摆脱了混乱 ——也就是矛盾、模仿、遵从和所有这些东西。 这样的心灵就是一个全神贯注的心灵, 它全然地关注着它所做的无论什么事情, 关注着它自己所有的行动, 在它的关系等等之中保持着这种关注。 关注不是专注。 专注是受约束的、狭隘的、有限的, 然而关注却是无限的。 在那种关注中,就有着寂静的品质 ——不是思想发明的寂静, 不是嘈杂过后出现的那种寂静, 也不是一个念头等待另一个念头到来的过程中的寂静。 我们必须有那种寂静 ——这种寂静并不是由欲望、意志和思想所拼凑出来的。 在那种冥想中没有控制者。 然而这却是所有所谓的冥想团体 和他们所发明的体系中的要素之一: 那里面总是有着努力、控制和纪律。 纪律意味着去学习——不是去遵从, 而是去学习,由此你的心灵变得越来越敏锐, 这种学习并非奠基于知识,它是一种持续不断的运动。 因此冥想就是摆脱已知——也就是度量。 在那种冥想中有着完全的寂静。 在那种寂静本身之中,就存在着那个不可名状的事物。
1:09:17 May we get up now? 现在我们可以起来了吗?