克里希那穆提 - 毫无动机地去结束掉一个事物

Krishnamurti Subtitles

OJ83T3 - 毫无动机地去结束掉一个事物第三次公开演讲美国，欧亥 1983年5月21日
0:51 May we continue where we left off last Sunday? We were saying that this is not a lecture about any particular subject, to instruct or to inform. Nor is it a form of entertainment, stimulated by the speaker; nor an intellectual journey into various forms of theories and concepts and ideals, but rather together we are taking a journey, not that the speaker is taking a journey and informing you about the journey, but rather together we are friends taking the very long journey into the human condition. 2:16 Why human beings, who have evolved apparently for about a million years or less or more, are still about the same: violent, primitive, divided, wars, frightened, insecure, and so on, suffering. And apparently it is time, as evolution, has not solved our human problems. They are increasing, not decreasing, more and more. Life is becoming more and more complex.	0:51 克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：我们可以接着我们上周日中断的地方继续讲下去吗？我们之前说过：这并不是一次关于任何特定主题的讲课，想要教授或告知你们一些东西。它也不是某种由演讲者所激发的娱乐活动；也不是一种思维智性上的探索 ——去探究各种形式的理论、概念和理想，而是我们要一起踏上旅程，不是演讲者踏上了旅程，然后告知你们关于这次旅程的内容，而是我们作为朋友，一起踏上这段无比漫长的、探索人类局限性的旅途。 2:16 为什么人类人类据说已经进化了有一百万年左右的时间，但他们仍然和从前一样：暴力、原始、分裂、彼此战争、感到害怕、不安全，等等，还有痛苦。很显然，时间 ——那种作为“进化”的时间—— 它并没有解决我们人类的各种问题。问题正在不断地增长 ——而不是减少。生活正在变得越来越复杂。
3:06 And we have had various forms of leaders, both religious, political, social and so on. And various forms of institutions and organisations, foundations and forums. They too have not in any way brought about a fundamental change in man. And when we together, without any bias, without coming to any conclusion, look what is happening all over the world – starvation, insecurity, confusion, great sense of human suffering through wars, through various forms of religious and national divisions, and so on. Technologically we have advanced enormously within the last hundred years. 4:23 There thought has operated with a capacity that’s almost infinite. But psychologically, inwardly, deeply we are about the same – primitive. So it’s a lopsided evolution; a process where thought has brought about extraordinary physical results – communication, transportation, and all the rest of it. But thought also has created various divisions in the world – religious, racial, and so on. And we said where there is division there must be conflict, wars. We went into that fairly sufficiently.	3:06 我们有着各种类别的领袖们 ——宗教领袖、政治领袖、社会领袖等等。我们还有着各种形式的机构和组织、基金会和论坛。但它们也丝毫没有带来人类根本性的改变。而当我们一起…… 毫无偏见地、没有任何结论地去观察全世界正在发生的事情 ——人类的饥饿问题、不安全、混乱困惑，以及由战争、由各种形式的宗教与国家的分裂等等所带来的人类的巨大痛苦。我们在科学技术上已经有了惊人的进步 ——在过去的一百年中。 4:23 在这个领域中，思想发挥出了近乎无限的能力。然而在心理层面、内在层面、内心深处，我们仍然和以前差不多 ——我们依然很原始。所以这是一种不平衡的进化；在这个过程中，思想带来了非凡的外在物质上的成果 ——通讯技术、各种交通运输工具，等等这些。然而思想同样也创造出了世界上的各种分裂 ——宗教的分裂、种族的分裂，等等。而我们说：当有了分裂，就必定会有冲突与战争。我们已经相当充分地讨论过了这一点。
5:30 And we talked about relationship. We are journeying together; the speaker is not talking to himself. We are taking a journey together, thinking, observing, watching, not only what is happening outside of us, outside the skin, as it were, but also inwardly, psychologically, what’s going on in the whole arena of the psyche. Together we are taking a journey. So please, if one may repeat this often, which we shall during this talk and tomorrow’s talk, we are taking a journey together: not an intellectual, verbal, ideological journey but actual observation of facts, what is actually happening. 6:48 So we have talked about relationship, how important it is in life. And without right relationship there must be conflict, not only between two people but in the world, because the psyche always overcomes whatever regulations, rules and orders are placed exteriorly, the inner always overcomes the outer. This is also an obvious fact, as one has watched in a Communist, totalitarian world.	5:30 然后我们还讨论了「关系」。我们正在一起踏上这段旅程，演讲者并不是在自言自语。我们正在一起踏上旅程，我们一起思考、观察、审视不只是我们外在发生的事情 ——也就是我们身外所发生的事，同样也包括我们内在、我们心理上所发生的事情，我们整个内心世界中正在发生进行着的事情。我们正一起踏上这段旅程。所以拜托了，如果允许某人时常重复一下它的话：那就是在今天以及明天的演讲中，我们要我们要一起踏上旅程：它不是一段思维智力上的、口头文字上的、意识形态上的旅程，而是切实地去观察事实，观察实际正在发生的事情。 6:48 所以，我们已经讨论了「关系」 ——关系在生活中是多么的重要。没有正确的关系，我们就必定会有冲突 ——不只是两个人之间的冲突，也包括这个世界上的冲突，因为内心世界总是会战胜规章、条例和命令所设定的那些外在的东西，「内在」总是会战胜「外在」。这同样也是一个显而易见的事实 ——就如我们在共产主义、极权主义的世界中所看到的那样。
7:32 And also last Sunday we went into the question of fear very carefully. Not the various branches of fear, or the expressions of fear. There are many many forms of fear. But we were together examining, asking, questioning, doubting the root of fear; what’s the cause. Where there is a cause, and one is able to discover it, then the cause can come to an end; if one is sane, not neurotic. And we said thought and time are the factors of fear. We went into the question of time, not only from here to there outwardly, but time devised by thought as human psyche becoming something, achieving something. That is: ‘what is’ should become or try to become ‘what is not’. 9:07 I hope we are taking a journey together! That is, if we are violent, as human beings apparently are from the beginning of time, it’s utterly useless to invent or project a concept of non-violence. Non-violence is not an actuality, it’s a theory, it’s a concept, it’s a conclusion. So there is only violence; but when we create an opposite of it, we create a division, and where there’s a division there must be conflict. So to deal with violence is the only thing that matters, not the ideological invention of non-violence. We went into that carefully.	7:32 此外，上周日我们还非常认真仔细地探讨了关于「恐惧」的问题。不是恐惧的各种细枝末节或者说是恐惧的各种表现。我们有着很多很多不同形式的恐惧。但我们正在一起检视、询问、怀疑、质疑那个造成恐惧的根源，恐惧的起因是什么。当存在着一个起因，那我们就能够去发现它，然后那个「起因」就会结束了 ——如果你是心智健全的人，而不是神经质的话。而我们说了：思想和时间是造成恐惧的因素。我们探讨了关于「时间」的问题 ——不只是外在物理上从这里前往那里（所需）的时间，还有那种由思想所设计出来的时间 ——也就是人类会在心理上去“成为什么什么”、 “去实现什么什么”。换句话说就是：“真实模样”应该要变成…… 或者试图去变成“有别于自己真实模样的东西”。 9:07 我希望我们正在一起踏上这趟旅程！也就是说：如果我们是暴力的 ——很显然，人类从亘古之初开始就是暴力的—— 那么去发明或者投射出一个“非暴力”的概念将是完全无用的。因为“非暴力”并不是真实现状，它只是一个理论、一个概念、一个结论。而存在的其实只有「暴力」；然而当我们创造出了暴力的对立面，我们就制造出了分裂，而有了分裂，就必定会有冲突。所以去「处理暴力」才是唯一要紧的事情，而不是从意识形态上去发明什么“非暴力”。
10:18 And also together we must examine this morning not only pleasure or the whole implication of pleasure, gratification, satisfaction, and the complex of desire, and also we should talk over together in our journey the nature of suffering, why human beings have suffered endlessly, not only in their relationship but through wars and so on. Whether suffering can ever end, or man, that is his conditioning that he must suffer forever. And also we should in the journey talk over together the nature of compassion, love and intelligence. And if we have time, we should talk over together also the whole complex problem of death.	10:18 我们已经小心仔细地探讨过了这一点。而今天早上，我们同样也必须要一起来检视一下快感或者说快感的全部暗示意义，检视一下满足、满意和欲望的复杂性，此外，在我们的这趟旅程中，我们也要一起来讨论一下「苦」的本质，为什么人类的痛苦会永无止境，不只是在他们的关系中受苦，也包括战争的痛苦，等等。痛苦是否有可能结束，还是说这是人类的局限 ——人注定要永远受苦。此外，在这次旅程中，我们也应该来一起探讨一下…… 慈悲、爱与智慧的本质。而如果我们还有时间，我们也会一起来讨论一下整个关于「死亡」的复杂问题。
11:38 So if you are not too tired on a lovely morning like this, pleasant, lovely sunshine, to sit quietly under trees with all the shadows and watching the mountains in the distance, to be aware of all the beauty of the land, the glory of a fresh, new morning, we should together take the journey into all this. Perhaps tomorrow we should talk over also together what is religion. Why religions have existed for thousands upon thousands of years, and why religions have had so little effect on the human being. 12:51 And also we should go into the question of what is meditation. Religion and meditation we generally put at the end of the talks because unless we have established in ourselves, are very clear and free from all the divisions, fragmentations in ourselves and the ending of conflict and so on, meditation has very little meaning. We’ll go into that tomorrow. But that’s not an invitation for you!	11:38 而如果你们还没有感到太累的话…… ——在这样一个美好的早晨，有着令人愉快的、美丽的阳光，静静地坐在大片树荫下面，望着远方的高山，去感知这片大地所有的美，感知这个清新、崭新早晨的壮丽美好，我们应当一起踏上这趟旅程，去探究所有这一切。而明天，我们也许会一起来谈论一下 “什么是宗教”。为什么宗教会存在成千上万年，为什么宗教对人类的影响是如此之小。 12:51 另外，我们也应该来探究一下关于“什么是冥想”的问题。我们通常都会把「宗教」与「冥想」的问题放到最后讲，因为除非我们自己内心已经清楚明白，并且摆脱掉了内在所有的分裂与碎片化，结束了冲突等等，否则冥想是没有什么意义的。我们明天将会来讲这个。我这可不是在邀请你们过来！
13:53 We are so eager to learn from another, to be told what to do, how to meditate and all that nonsense, we never find anything for ourselves. I do not know if you have gone into the whole question of knowledge. Knowledge is always in the past, and we live upon the accumulation of experience and knowledge which is the past. That past may be 10,000 years or the past of a yesterday. So we are always living in the past. And we try to live in the present, which is impossible unless one understands very deeply the nature of the past. 15:03 Not analyse, investigate, but to observe without any motive or direction, just to observe the whole human psychological accumulation. That is: to observe, not only with the eyes, but to observe in silence. Because when you observe, in silence, beauty, it has great significance. But if you are chattering about silence and beauty, you fail to understand both of them.	13:53 我们是如此渴望从另一个人那里学到些什么，让别人来告诉我们该怎么做，如何去冥想，等等这些荒唐的东西。我们从来没有亲自去发现过任何东西。我不知道你们是否曾经探究过关于「知识」的整个问题。「知识」永远都是属于「过去」的，而我们的生活是基于经验与知识的积累的 ——经验与知识就是「过去」。这个「过去」也许是一万年以前的事情，或者是昨天的事情。所以我们永远都是活在「过去」之中的。虽然我们试图去“活在当下”，但这是不可能的。除非我们非常深刻地理解了「过去」的本质 15:03 不是去分析、去研究，而是毫无动机或方向地去观察，只是去观察人类全部的心理上的积累物。换句话说：去观察不仅仅是用眼睛去观察，也要在「寂静」中去观察。因为当你在「寂静」、在「美」之中去观察时，它就会具有重大的意义。但如果你只是在喋喋不休地讨论「寂静」与「美」，那你就难以了解这两者了。
16:09 So we are going together to go into the first question this morning: the nature of pleasure. Why human beings throughout the world, and especially in this country, pursue this thing called pleasure. What is pleasure? We are together examining what it is; exploring. And when one explores, there must be a certain quality of doubt. It’s part of scepticism. Otherwise exploration is not possible. Doubt one’s own conclusions, theories, concepts, ideals, experiences, then one is free to examine. But if one clings to one’s own particular form of idiosyncrasy, particular tendency, then exploration is very, very limited. 17:56 To understand pleasure – not that we are condemning it – to watch those mountains, see the blue sky through the leaves, and the dappled light, to watch all this is a great delight; to see it all, the wholeness of nature, there is a great beauty, and beauty never fails when there is silence in this observation. So together we are going to observe pleasure, the root of it, the cause, and see the whole complexity of pleasure.	16:09 所以今天早上，我们将要一起来探究的第一个问题就是：「快感」的本质。为什么全世界的人类 ——尤其是在这个国家（美国）—— 人们会去追求这个被称为“快感”的东西。什么是快感？我们正在一起检视快感是什么？一起探究它。当我们探究它的时候，我们必须要有某种「质疑」的品质。它是怀疑态度的一部分。否则的话，探究是不可能的。我们要去质疑自己的各种结论、理论、概念、理想与经验，那时我们才能自由地去检视。但如果我们执著于我们自己特别的性格特质、特定的偏好倾向，那我们的探究就会变得非常非常局限了。 17:56 要了解「快感」 ——我们并没有在谴责它—— 望着那些高山、透过树叶欣赏蓝天，还有那些斑驳的光影，观察这一切是一件极大的乐事；去欣赏这一切，欣赏整个大自然世界，那里有着惊人的美，而当这种观察中有了「寂静」，那么这种「美」便永远不会褪色。所以我们将要一起来观察快感，观察快感的根源、起因，看清快感所有的错综复杂。
19:02 To go into pleasure one must understand desire; why human beings are driven by desire, craving for something, looking for something that’ll be gratifying ardently, hankering after, seeking satisfaction in every direction – sexually, power, position, knowledge, try to dominate, not only the earth, air, but also each other. So without understanding the nature and the structure of desire it’ll be rather difficult to comprehend the nature of pleasure. So please, together, and one must repeat this phrase over and over again, together examine the nature of desire. Desire means the want of something; longing for something, craving for something. That’s the meaning, dictionary meaning, of desire, as in Sanskrit, and so on.	19:02 而要深入探究快感，我们就必须了解「欲望」：为什么人类会被欲望所驱使，会渴求某些东西、会去寻找某种可以带来强烈满足的事物，无比渴望并且去寻求各方面的满足 ——性、权力、地位和知识上的满足，试图去支配……不仅是支配控制这个地球、天空，也要去支配他人。所以，不了解欲望的本质与结构，要理解快感的本质将会是相当困难的。因此拜托了，我们要一起某人（指克氏自己）不得不一遍又一遍地重复这句话，让我们一起去检视欲望的本质。「欲望」意味着想要某个东西、渴望某个东西、渴求某个东西。这就是「欲望」这个词的意思 ——词典中的意思，也是它在梵文中的意思，等等。
21:09 What is desire? Why have all the religions in the world, organised, orthodox, traditional religions, have told their adherents to suppress desire? The monks all over the world suppress desire, or identify the desire with a particular symbol, with a particular figure, trying to transcend desire. This happens in Christianity, through prayer, and so on. So we are not condemning or denying desire, but we are questioning why human beings right throughout the world desire for food, clothes, and shelter, which is normal, and that is denied by this terrible nationalism in the world for all people. 22:41 That desire for food, clothes and shelter is denied through ideologies, of Communists, socialists, capitalists, through nationalism and so on. Desire is essentially the search for satisfaction.	21:09 所以什么是「欲望」呢？为什么全世界所有的宗教 ——那些有组织的、正统的、传统的宗教都会告诉它们的信徒说要压抑克制欲望？世界各地的僧侣都会压抑欲望，或者把欲望认同于某个特定的象征符号、某个特定的人物形象，努力去超越欲望。就像基督教中所发生的事情 ——它会以「祈祷」等形式而呈现。所以，我们并没有在谴责或否定欲望，而是在质疑为什么全世界的人我们都渴望食物、衣服和住所 ——这种欲望是正常的，然而对于所有人来说，这种正常的欲望 22:41 却被这个世界上的可怕的国家主义所否定了。这种对于食物、衣服和住所的正常欲望却被共产主义者、社会主义者和资本主义者的意识形态所否定了，被国家主义等等所否定了。「欲望」从本质上讲就是追寻满足感。
23:12 If we are together in this, understanding the verbal significance of those words, desire, we are asking then, what is desire? How does it come about and why has it such a strong hold on man? You are asking the question. The speaker may go into it, but you are asking the question. And together – we mean together – examine very carefully how it comes about and why it has taken such a strong hold on man. Biologically one can see the activity of desire, sexual and so on. But we are talking about the psychological urges, the reactions, the demands of desire and trying through desire find deep satisfaction, gratification, contentment. 24:52 Surely desire is something separate – please listen first, then question it, you may doubt it, but just watch it together. Sensation is normal. When you see those mountains, the perception of that is a sensation. The seeing, visually, and then reacting to what you see, which becomes the sensation – that’s normal, healthy, actual. And when is desire born? Is it born out of sensation? You are enquiring together? You see a beautiful garden, or a nice motor bike, or one of those marvellous new cars, beautiful lines. 26:40 You see it, and you touch it – the polish, the lines of it – and out of that perception, seeing, contact, there is sensation. That’s natural. When you see the tree, touch it, look at the beauty of the branches, the leaves, and the light upon the leaves, the shimmer, the glitter, and become sensitive to all that, that’s natural. So we are asking, does desire come out of sensation?	23:12 如果我们能就这一点达成共识，理解了这些词语 ——欲望——的口头文字上的意思，那么我们就要问了：什么是欲望呢？欲望是如何升起的？为什么它能如此牢牢地掌控人类？是你在询问这个问题。演讲者也许会来探讨它，然而，是你正在询问这个问题。而我们要一起……——我们的意思是“我们一起”—— 来非常认真地检视它：欲望是如何升起的，为什么它会如此牢牢地掌控人类。从生物学的角度，我们可以看到欲望的活动 ——性欲等等。但我们正在谈论的是心理上的冲动、那些反应，那些欲望的需求，并试图通过欲望来找到深层次的满意、满足、知足安适。 24:52 毫无疑问，欲望是某种分离独立的事物 ——请你们先听完它，然后再质疑它，你也许会怀疑这种说法，但先让我们一起来看看它。有感官感觉是很正常的。当你看到那些高山，这种视觉上的感知就是感官感觉。看到——视觉上的感知—— 然后你会对你所看到的事物产生反应，这种反应就变成了感官感觉 ——它是正常的、健康的、真实的。而欲望是什么时候才升起的呢？它是来自于感官感觉吗？你们正在和我一起探询吗？你看到了一座美丽的花园，或者一辆漂亮的摩托车，或者某一辆精美绝伦的新汽车 ——它有着优美的车身线条。 26:40 你看到了它，然后你触摸它 ——它那打磨光亮的车身、它的线条—— 经由这种感知、看见、接触，就产生了感官感觉。这是很自然的。当你看到了那棵树，你抚摸它，欣赏它优美动人的枝条、它的树叶，树叶上的光泽、那种微光、闪闪发亮，你会敏感地感知到这一切，这是很自然的事。所以我们正在问：欲望是从感官感觉之中产生出来的吗？
27:46 You see a marvellous dress in a shop; a shirt, if you are a man, or if you are a woman, you see a marvellous dress. You go in, touch it; there is a sensation, feeling how nice, smooth it is. Then what takes place? Go slowly, you will see it for yourself. Then what takes place? You see the shirt, touch it: sensation, then thought says, ‘How nice it would be if I had that dress, if I had that car, if I had that shirt, or if I had that garden’, whatever it is. When thought creates the image of you sitting in the car or in the shirt, at that moment when thought creates the image, then desire is born. Right?	27:46 你看到商店里的一件漂亮的连衣裙；或者一件衬衫——如果你是男性的话，如果你是女性，当你看到商店里有一件漂亮的连衣裙，你就会走进商店，摸一下那件连衣裙；然后你就会产生某种感觉：你会觉得它是多么的棒、多么的顺滑。然后会发生什么呢？慢慢来，你可以自己看到这一点。然后会发生什么呢？你看到了那件衬衫，你触摸它：你有了某种感觉，然后思想便会说： “要是我能拥有那件连衣裙该有多好啊，要是我能拥有那辆汽车、要是我能拥有那件衬衫、或者要是我也能拥有那么一座花园该有多棒啊！ ”——无论那是什么东西。当思想创造出你坐在那辆汽车里或者你穿着那件衬衫的意象，在思想创造出意象的那一刻，欲望便产生了。对吧？
29:00 Are we together in this? You are not accepting what the speaker is saying, but we are together examining the nature of desire. That where there is sensation thought inevitably, apparently, comes with its image and desire with its satisfaction is born. Right? Is this somewhat clear? Somewhat. Because unless we understand this movement of sensation and the thought taking over the sensation with its image, and out of that comes desire which is to find satisfaction – satisfaction in the robe, in the shirt, in the car.	29:00 我们是否就这一点达成共识了？你们并不需要接受演讲者所说的东西，因为我们正在一起检视欲望的本质。那就是：当有了感官感觉，很显然，思想就必然会带来它的意象，于是想要满足的欲望便产生了。是这样吧？这样讲是不是稍微清楚一些了？多少清楚一点了。因为除非我们了解了这种感官感觉的活动，然后思想“接管”了这种感觉，并带来了意象，从中就产生出了欲望，这种欲望会去寻求满足 ——拥有一件长袍、一件衬衫、一辆汽车的满足感。
30:16 That is: one has observed the whole movement of sensation, desire, and fulfilment in satisfaction. This observation, this close watching of the whole movement of desire in oneself, out of that watching comes intelligence. Right? Before we just accepted desire as our condition, and the desire to fulfil, and if it is not fulfilled, feel frustrated, and the agony of frustration and all the neurotic results of being frustrated. And that’s generally our process; the way we live. 31:16 The way we live obviously is rather idiotic, unintelligent. Please, I am not condemning, I am just watching. And when you observe this whole movement – the seeing, the contact, sensation, and desire which is brought about through thought with its image – if you observe this whole movement without any control, without any motive, that very observation is the beginning of intelligence. Then that intelligence will – if I may use the word ‘discipline’ – discipline the whole movement of desire. 32:17 You understand? You have understood? It’s not desire must be controlled or suppressed or as in America it happens, how to have everything you want! But rather, the understanding of desire is intelligence. And that intelligence will discipline desire. Please listen, if we can listen to each other carefully, discipline.	30:16 也就是说：我们已经观察过了这整个一系列的运动：感官感觉、欲望升起、然后是欲望的满足实现。而这种观察，这种对于我们内心欲望的全部运动的密切观察，经由这种观察，就会产生出「智慧」。对吧？在这之前，我们只是接受了欲望，将其视为我们的局限，我们会渴望欲望的满足，而如果欲望无法满足，我们就会感到压抑沮丧和这种压抑沮丧所带来的痛苦，以及这种压抑沮丧所造成的各种神经质的表现。这就是我们通常所经历的过程，这就是我们的生活方式。 31:16 我们的生活方式很显然是相当愚蠢的、无知的。请注意，我并没有在谴责什么，我只是在观察。而当你观察了这整个运动 ——看到、接触、感官感觉，然后思想经由其意象带来了欲望—— 如果你观察了这整个运动，没有任何控制、没有任何动机地观察了它，那么这种观察本身便是「智慧」的开端。然后这种「智慧」就会…… ——如果允许我使用“约束”这个词的话—— 这种「智慧」将会“约束” 欲望的整个运动。 32:17 你们听懂了吗？你们理解了吗？并不是说「欲望」必须要被控制或压抑，或者就如在美国所发生的那样 ——如何去拥有你想要的一切！而是那种对于欲望的「了解」，它便是「智慧」。而这种「智慧」就会约束欲望。
33:02 What do we mean by that word ‘discipline’? The word comes from the word ‘disciple’, the one who is learning, the one who receives instruction from the teacher. But we have made discipline into a conformity, into following certain mode of operation, of habit, of thought – to discipline oneself according to an idea; according to something that must be done. If you are studying any particular subject, scientific or psychological, the study of it makes its own discipline. Right? If you are a carpenter – I am afraid you are not, most of you are too educated – if you are a carpenter, that very career disciplines the way you use tools, understand the wood and the nature of the wood and the quality and so on. 34:43 But we have made it, discipline to follow, to obey, to conform, to restrain. But where there is discipline there is learning. Right? Learning. And learning is infinite. There is no end to learning; not recording. I wonder… Can we go into this little bit? You don’t mind?	33:02 请听好了——如果我们可以认真地聆听彼此的话——约束，我们所说的“约束”这个词是什么意思呢？这个词（discipline）源自于“弟子（disciple）”这个词 ——也就是那个「正在学习」的人，那个从老师那里接收教导的人。然而我们却把「约束」变成了一种遵从，去遵循特定的模式 ——行为模式、习惯模式、思维模式—— 从而约束自己去符合于某个理念、去做那些 “必须要做的事”。如果你正在学习任何特定的学科 ——无论是科学上的还是心理学上的，这种学习本身就会带来它自身的“约束”。对吧？如果你是一个木匠 ——我恐怕你并不是，因为你们大多数人都受过很好的教育—— 但如果你是一个木匠，那么这个职业本身就会制约你使用工具的方式，你必须要了解木头、了解木材的质地、品质等等。 34:43 然而我们已经把“约束”变成了去遵循、去服从、去遵守、去克制。当有了「约束」，就会有「学习」。对吧？学习。而学习是永无止境的。学习是没有尽头的，学习不是去记录。我不知道你们是否我们可以稍微来深入一下它吗？你们不介意吧？
35:24 Recording – the brain records an incident, an experience, a hurt, both physical as well as psychological, a wound received from the outside, bodily, and a wound from another hurting the psyche. Right? And all these things are recorded. Record is the past, naturally, like repeating a gramophone record. So the past, this constant recording, if you have ever gone into it – we are talking as two friends – if you have ever gone into it, why should everything be recorded? One needs to record how to drive a car, how to write a letter; you need to record if you are a specialist, or a worker, or businessman, or a psychologist and so on, you need to have recording, which becomes your knowledge and according to that knowledge you act, skilfully or not. 37:09 There recording is necessary; the brain must record. But we are asking: why should the psyche record at all? You understand all this? Please, it’s a fundamental question; put it to yourself and find out. One records a hurt. Right? And from childhood we are hurt, and that is recorded, with its result of always fear of further being hurt, so building a wall round oneself, isolating oneself, and getting more and more hurt, you know, the whole problem of recording. Why should that hurt be recorded? You hurt me by… suppose you have hurt another, why should that hurt be received and recorded and held? 38:32 Please, this is an important question to ask. You are flattered and you accept that and record it; insult and flattery are both the same; they are the two sides of the same coin. And we keep that very carefully recorded.	35:24 记录——大脑会记录一个事件、一次经历、一次伤害 ——既包括外在身体上的、也包括心理上的，比如来自于外部世界的、身体上的伤害，以及别人所带给你的心理上的创伤。对吧？所有这些事情都会被记录下来。「记录」就是「过去」——这是显而易见的，就像反复播放留声机的唱片一样。所以「过去」——这种持续不断的记录，如果你曾经探究过它的话 ——我们就像是两个朋友在交谈那样—— 如果你曾经探究过它，那么为什么我们要把所有这一切记录下来呢？我们需要记录 ——比如如何驾驶汽车，如何写一封信；如果你是一个专家、或者你是一个工人、一个商人、或者心理学家等等，你就必须要去记录一些东西，这些记录下来的东西会成为你的知识，然后你会根据这种知识而去行动 ——熟练地或不熟练地去行动。 37:09 在这方面，记录是必不可少的，大脑必须要去记录才行。然而我们在问的是：我们究竟为什么要有「心理上的记录」呢？你们能理解这一切吗？请注意，这是一个根本性的问题，请你问问自己，去把它搞清楚。我们会把一次伤害记录下来。是吧？我们从小开始便遭到伤害，而这种伤害被记录下来了，它的后果就是：我们总是在害怕再次受到伤害，于是我们便在自己周围建立了一道“围墙”，孤立隔绝自己，然后我们又会遭受更多的伤害，你懂的，这整个关于「记录」的问题。为什么那个伤害要被记录下来呢？你伤害了我…… 假设你伤害了别人，但为什么那个人要接收这个伤害，把它记录下来并一直带着它呢？ 38:32 请注意，这是一个很重要的问题，你需要问一下它。有人奉承了你，你会接受这种奉承，然后把它记录下来，侮辱和奉承其实是一样的东西，它们是同一个硬币的两个面而已。然后我们会非常小心地把它记录下来。
39:03 This recording, which is essentially memory, is the whole structure of the psyche, the ‘me’, the ego, the person. So the psyche is essentially memory, the recording machine, or rather the record on which the present plays a part. You understand? Can we go on? So is it possible not to record? Only those things that are absolutely necessary. That is real freedom. Never to have a record, psychological memory of things that have happened, pleasant or unpleasant. 40:14 Then, where there is that sense of great, vast freedom, there is something totally different dimension. But we cannot go into that now, but we are considering desire. And we said the comprehension, the watching of that whole movement of desire, in that watching there is intelligence. That intelligence will naturally bring about order, which is the essence of learning, discipline, that intelligence will bring about order where there is disorder created by desire.	39:03 而这种「记录」 ——它本质上来说就是「记忆」—— 它就是心智、那个“我”、那个自我、那个个体的完整结构。所以「心智」从根本上来说就是「记忆」，它是一台在不断记录着的机器，或者更准确地说，心智就是记录，而「当下」会对那个记录产生影响。你们听懂了吗？我们可以继续讲下去吗？所以，我们是否可能不要去记录？只去记录那些绝对必要的东西。这才是真正的自由。永远不去记录，也就是那些关于曾经发生过的事情的心理上的记忆 ——无论是令人愉快的还是不愉快的事。 40:14 那时，当有了这种巨大的、广阔的自由感，就会有某种完全不同的空间维度。但我们现在还没法深入它，我们正在思考「欲望」这个东西。我们说：要去了解和观察欲望的全部运动，在这种观察中，便会有「智慧」。而这种智慧很自然地就会带来「秩序」 ——而秩序就是「学习」和「约束」的本质，当有了欲望所制造出来的混乱后，那种智慧就会带来秩序。
41:03 I have got it. I’ve got it myself. Right? I see the truth of it. Are we together in this journey? I’m afraid some of you… if you are not – it’s no good going over and over again; perhaps you will talk it over, if you are willing, with your friends, or read something or other. Books are useful but they don’t instruct, they don’t tell you. You have to search, ask, demand, question, doubt, stand alone if necessary, and one has to stand alone and not depend on anything. The word ‘alone’ means ‘all one’. Right.	41:03 我已经理解了它。是我自己把它搞明白了。对吧？我看到了它的真相。我们是否正一起踏上这段旅程？我恐怕你们中的一些人…… 如果你没有 ——一遍又一遍地重复是没啥用的；如果你们愿意的话也许你们可以和自己的朋友讨论一下它，或者去阅读相关书籍。书籍是有用的，但它们无法教会你、它们无法告诉你真相。你必须要去寻找、询问、要求、质疑、怀疑，如果有必要的话，要保持单独，我们必须要保持单独，不要依赖于任何事物。 “单独”这个词的意思是“完整合一”。就先讲到这里吧。
42:07 Then we ought to talk over together what is suffering. Why man, including woman, please don’t be so particular if I mention man. It includes humanity, which is man and woman, not woman separate from her rights, and all the rest of that business. We are together. Why has man, woman, suffered for centuries: why are we suffering now? What is suffering? And what’s the cause of it; and can there ever be an end to tears, to human misery, to unhappiness, to the grief that we carry throughout life? We are looking at it, not becoming sentimental, romantic, tearful, but we are actually facing this fact that human beings, whether they’re rich or poor, they have high position or low, all human beings throughout the world suffer. 44:12 That’s a fact, undeniable, true fact. Some escape from it through Christian dogmatism or some person suffering for whole of mankind for their sins. Or, that’s also… the original sin is invented by thought. So we try to overcome sorrow because of various reasons.	42:07 然后我们也应该一起来讨论一下 “什么是「苦」？” 为什么人（man）——这其中也包括了女人（woman），在我提到“人（man）”的时候，请不要太在意（性别）。因为它包括了全人类 ——包括了男人和女人，而不是说女人被剥夺了她的权利，等等这类事情。我们正在一起讨论它。为什么男人和女人无数世纪以来都在受苦：为什么我们现在还在受苦？什么是「苦」？「苦」的原因是什么？人类的眼泪有可能不再流吗？人类的苦难、人类的不幸、以及我们终其一生所携带着悲伤，它有可能结束吗？我们正在观察它，我们没有感情用事、浪漫幻想、声泪俱下，我们正在切实地面对这个事实，那就是：人类——不管是富人还是穷人，不管是地位高的人还是地位低下的人，全世界所有的人都在受苦。 44:12 这是一个事实，一个不可否定的、千真万确的事实。有些人通过基督教的教条主义逃避了这个事实，或者会说有人正在为全人类的罪恶而承受苦难。或者说，这也是……“原罪” ——“原罪”是思想发明出来的概念。所以，我们会试图去解决由各种原因而引发的「苦」。
44:56 Wars have created sorrow in the world. And there are still wars going on. How many millions of women and men and wives and girls have cried through wars. So there is suffering of the whole of humanity. And also there is suffering of persons, of separate individuals. The word ‘individual’ means indivisible, not fragmented. But we are fragmented, broken up, so we are not the word. Individual means not only the word ‘unique’, but not being broken up, fragmented. 46:26 So we are not individuals, but that’s another statement which we have to go into another time, if we have time. So persons, separate persons, and the whole world have suffered through wars, through great starvation, poverty of mind, poverty of body, and revolutions have tried to change the social structure but they have not succeeded. But through that revolution killing millions of people. That too has brought great sorrow in the world. Perhaps some of you may not be suffering now, but look at the world as it is. 47:43 You suffer when you don’t fulfil. You suffer when you see a poor man; you suffer when you see great ignorance prevailing in the world – not ignorance of books and so on, the ignorance of the actual fact that war destroys human beings. You see all the generals, the politicians throughout the world accumulating the materials of war. And when you see all that, talk to some of them, that is sorrow of their ignorance.	44:56 战争已经造成了全世界的苦难。而如今战争仍在继续着。数以百万计的女人和男人、那些妻子和女孩，因为战争而哭泣。所以这是一种全人类的苦难。而我们个人、我们这些分离独立的“个体” 也会痛苦。 “个体”这个词的意思是不可分割的、没有分裂的。然而我们却是碎片化的、分裂的，所以我们并不是真正的个体。 “个体（Individual）”的含义并不仅仅包含了 “独一无二（unique）”这个词，它也意味着没有分裂、没有碎片化。 46:26 所以我们并不是「个体」，但这是另一个话题了我们下次再来讲它 ——如果我们有时间的话。所以人类，那些彼此分离的个人，以及全世界的人都在受苦 ——战争之苦、饥荒之苦、心灵精神的匮乏、身体物质上的贫穷，人们发动了各种革命，试图改变社会的结构，然而他们并没有获得成功。却通过革命杀害了数百万人。这同样也给这个世界带来了巨大的痛苦。也许你们中的一些人现在并没有在受苦，然而看看这个世界的现状吧。 47:43 当你没有实现自我时，你会痛苦。当你看到一个穷人时，你会痛苦。当你看到遍及世界的巨大的无知时，你会痛苦 ——这里的「无知」并不是指“没有读过书”之类的东西，它指的是：没有看到“战争摧毁了人类” 这个真切的事实。你可以看到全世界所有的将军和政客们…… 正在积累战争物资。而当你看到了这一切，并且与他们中的一些人交谈以后，你会为他们的无知而感到痛苦。
48:39 So we are asking, can man live on this earth peacefully without suffering? Please ask that question of yourself on the journey you and the speaker are taking together. Why do we suffer? The loss of a son, the loss of a husband, wife, divorce, you know, the various forms, symptoms of suffering. One is not beautiful, somebody else is beautiful, you know, the whole business of sorrow. And can it ever end? To go into this question together, to find out what is the root of it. As long as there is separation, division, there must be conflict and conflict brings about sorrow. 50:29 As long as one is separate from his wife, not biologically, but psychologically, inwardly, when there is that separation between the two people, however intimate they are, and that separation, that division brings about conflict. And conflict is the very nature of sorrow, because in that conflict we are destroying each other. I wonder if you follow all this? When one quarrels with one’s wife, or when you possess your wife and the wife possesses you, or when you are attached to her and she is attached to you, that very attachment brings conflict, jealousy, anxiety, pain, sorrow. 51:52 So can two people live together without conflict, which is a very, very fundamental question, very complex question. Can two people, can a group of people – you see, the very word ‘group’ means divided – can people, humanity, live together on this world, on this earth? It’s their earth, it’s our earth, not the American earth or the Russian earth; it’s our earth.	48:39 所以我们正在问：人类是否能够和平地生活在这个地球上而没有痛苦呢？ ——在你和演讲者一起踏上旅程的时候，请问问自己这个问题。为什么我们会受苦？失去了儿子、失去了丈夫、妻子，或者离婚了，你知道的，各种形式、各种症状的痛苦。我不漂亮，但别人很漂亮，你懂的，所有各种形形色色的痛苦。那么「苦」是否可能结束？让我们一起来探究这个问题，去发现「苦」的根源是什么。只要还是存在着分离、分裂，就必定会有冲突，而冲突就会带来痛苦。 50:29 只要一个人仍然和他的妻子是「分离」的 ——不是生物学意义上的分离，而是心理上的、内心世界的分离，当有了这种两个人之间的分离 ——不管他们两人是多么的亲密，那么这种分离、这种分裂就会带来冲突。而冲突就是「苦」的本质，因为在那种冲突中，我们会彼此摧毁。我不知道你们是否跟上了所有这些？当一个人和他的妻子吵架，或者当你占有你的妻子，或者你的妻子占有着你，或者当你执著于她、她执著于你时，这种「执著」本身就会带来冲突、嫉妒、焦虑、痛苦和苦难。 51:52 所以，我们两个人能否毫无冲突地生活在一起呢？这是一个非常、非常根本性的问题，也是一个非常复杂的问题。那就是两个人、某个团体的人 ——你瞧，“团体”这个词本身就已经意味着割裂了—— 所有人能够和平共处地生活在这个世界上、这个地球上吗？这是所有人的地球，这是我们的地球，它不是美国人的地球、俄罗斯人的地球，它是我们大家的地球。
52:39 Can we live together without conflict? I may have hurt you, and you may have hurt me; why should we keep that going? Why should we keep that record of pain? One has lost one’s son, one loved that son or the brother or the husband, what you will; and there is shedding of tears, trying to escape from the actual fact that he or she has gone, and feeling the pain, the anxiety, the loneliness of it; trying to escape from that loneliness. You may escape but it’s always there, deep in one’s heart and in the deep recesses of one’s own brain. 54:13 What are we holding on to? The image, the memory, the past? We never seem to let go that image, the past. There is a constant memory, reminder of a photograph or a remembered incident. And if we are aware of this, put away the photographs and the memories, then one may feel disloyal, which is again such a false sentiment. The fact is that while we lived together there was a division between us; and that division has brought great conflict and some happy memories. 55:27 Both are remembrances recorded, and those records keep on repeating endlessly, and so a constant reminder. So when one watches without any motive, without any sense of direction, just to watch this whole movement of suffering, not only one’s own suffering, but the whole of humanity’s suffering, of which we are a part.	52:39 我们可以没有冲突地生活在一起吗？我也许伤害过你，而你或许也伤害过我；但为什么我们要让这种伤害持续下去呢？为什么我们要保留那些痛苦的“记录”呢？某人失去了他的儿子，他爱他的儿子、或者兄弟、或者丈夫，无论什么人；他流下了眼泪，他会试图去逃避这个千真万确的事实 ——也就是那个人已经离开了人世。他为此而感到痛苦、焦虑、孤独，他会努力逃离这种孤独。你或许可以逃离孤独，但孤独永远在那里，它存在于你内心深处，存在于你大脑的幽深的角落里。 54:13 我们紧抓不放的那个东西是什么呢？是意象、是记忆、还是「过去」？我们似乎从未放下过那个「意象」和那些「过去」。我们会不断地去回忆，某张照片所引发的回忆，或者那些记忆中的往事。如果我们觉察到了这一点，然后收起那些照片与回忆，那我们或许会感到自己是不忠的 ——这同样也是一种如此虚假的感情。因为事实上，之前当我们生活在一起的时候，我们其实是彼此割裂的，而这种分裂带来了巨大的冲突、也带来了一些美好愉快的回忆。 55:27 这两者都被记录下来成为了记忆。而这些“记录” 会无止尽地不断重复，从而持续不断地引发回忆。所以，当我们没有任何动机、没有任何方向感地去观察它，只是去观察「苦」的整个运动，不只是我们自己的「苦」，也包括全人类的「苦」 ——我们就是全人类的一部分。
56:17 We are humanity. If you understand your own sorrow, watching it like a precious jewel, then that very observation – and observation of that, with that clarity and purity can only come when there is no sense of escape from it. Then there is an ending of that suffering. Then you are not contributing to the world’s sorrow. That means you are no longer separate from the rest of humanity. You are no longer an American, Russian, Chinese, all these silly tribal divisions. You are the entire humanity. So if you are violent, you are contributing to violence; if you have ended sorrow, then you are bringing about freedom from the human mind, human brain’s sorrow.	56:17 我们就是全人类。如果你了解了你自身的「苦」，就像观察一件珍贵的珠宝那样观察它，那么这种观察本身 ——只有依靠这样的观察，「清明」与「纯洁」才会降临，那时你没有任何想要逃避它的感觉。然后那种「苦」便会止息了。那时你就不再为这个世界的「苦难」 “添砖加瓦”了。那意味着你和其他所有人不再是分离的。你不再是一个美国人、不再是一个俄罗斯人、不再是一个中国人…… ——所有这些都是愚蠢的“部落化”的分裂。你就是全人类。所以如果你是暴力的，那你就是在助长全人类的暴力；而如果你已经终结了「苦难」，那么你也就让人类的心灵、人类的头脑摆脱了苦难。
57:57 Without understanding the nature of sorrow, love cannot be. If I suffer, how can I love? I know the tradition is that suffering is part of love; like jealousy is part of love. Jealousy is not love, nor hate, nor ambition, nor trying to become somebody psychologically. So love is something that is not all the movement of thought. Love is not a remembrance, is it? Ask, please, we are asking that question of each other. How can there be compassion if I am attached to a particular ideal, and you are attached to a particular ideal? That is, where there is a limited outlook on life, not one’s particular life, but life, the life in nature, all the loveliness of nature, from the tiniest thing to the great elephant and to the tiger. 1:00:20 The speaker was once very close to the tiger – not in the zoo, thank God – but in the forest. It was the most extraordinary thing to see it. Where there is love, the self is not. You understand? Pity is not love; going out and helping the poor, whether in India or here, the social work – that’s pity, generosity, but love has its own generosity. Compassion cannot exist if I am a Catholic, Protestant, Hindu, Buddhist, and all the rest of it. And where there is compassion, it has its own intelligence.	57:57 不了解「苦」的本质，就不可能会有「爱」。如果我在受苦，我又怎么可能去爱呢？我知道传统观念认为痛苦是「爱」的一部分，就像嫉妒是「爱」的一部分一样。然而嫉妒并不是爱，憎恨与野心也不是爱，试图在心理层面去成为某种人——这也不是爱。所以「爱」并不是所有那些思想的运动。「爱」并不是一种记忆，它是吗？请你去问一下这个问题，我们正在向对方提出这个问题。如果我执著于某个理想，而你也执著于某个理想，那时怎么可能会有「慈悲」呢？换句话说，当我们对于生活的视野看法是局限的 ——不是某人的生活，而是生活本身，自然界的生活，大自然所有美好的事物，从最微小的事物到巨大的大象，再到老虎。 1:00:20 演讲者曾经非常接近一只老虎 ——不是动物园里的老虎，谢天谢地—— 而是森林里的老虎。亲眼看到这只老虎，实在是令人惊叹。当有了「爱」，「自我」便不复存在了。你们理解了吗？「同情」并不是「爱」；出去帮助穷人 ——不管是印度的穷人、还是这里的穷人—— 那些社会福利工作，它是一种同情、一种慷慨，然而「爱」有着它自身的慷慨。而如果我是一个天主教徒、或者一个新教徒、印度教徒、佛教徒，等等，那么「慈悲」便无法存在了。而当有了「慈悲」，它就会拥有其自身的智慧。
1:01:39 So this is the whole business of life; not this battle with each other; not this constant dread of insecurity, anxiety, loneliness, pain and the pursuit of pleasure. Life is a whole movement, unbroken.	1:01:39 这才是生活的全部内容，而不是彼此之间战争不断，持续不断地害怕不安全、焦虑、孤独、痛苦、追求快感。生活是一个完整的、连续不断的运动
1:02:18 And if we have time – we have some more time – we ought to talk over together the question of death. It’s not a morbid question, it’s not an old man putting a question. But whether we are young or old, whether we’ll die through an accident, through disease, this is a human problem. The problem that each one of us has to face. We are all going to die; sorry, perhaps not you, but we are all going to die. Have you ever thought if all the people who have lived on this earth never died, what would happen to the earth? 1:03:41 So we’re all going to die one day, that’s inevitable, that’s absolutely certain. There is a great deal of humour in this. And we must understand together as two friends who are facing this problem, whether young or old, they are facing this thing called death. Death is the ending of everything both biologically and psychologically. Please this is very complex question, we are going to go into it very carefully. Biologically it's obvious; like a machine that has been used constantly, misused or used very carefully, whatever can be constantly used comes to an end. 1:05:22 But we are not afraid of that, of that only, but we are afraid of the very fact of ending that is death. To have a conversation with death, to have a conversation with ending, which is death. What does this conversation mean? Are you interested in this? Who is it that is going to die? Apart from the organism, the organism has a name – right? – you have watched your face for the last fifty or ten years, or two days, or eighty years. You have watched your face, you are familiar with your face, you are familiar with that name, you are familiar with all the things around you, outside of you. 1:06:53 You are not familiar with yourself, you don’t know yourself. You have been told what you are, by psychologists and all that business. But actually their explanation, their statement is not what you are. So you are never familiar with yourself. So your conversation with death is meaningless unless you are familiar with yourself. Right? I hope we understand each other. So I am going to be familiar with myself. So I am asking: what is myself? Myself is the body, all the sensory responses – the name, the form outwardly, the address, the bank account, the job, all the familiar things of daily life, and the daily activity of life. 1:08:36 And so we are asking, let us, you and the speaker, get familiar with ourselves. That is to know ourselves very clearly: not theoretically, not some ideological, religious, speculative illusion or superstition, but what are you, what are we, each one of us? Unless we know ourselves very, very carefully, study it, watch it, learn, see the whole complexity of the ‘me’, until I am totally familiar with every little thing, every corner, I cannot possibly have an intelligent conversation with death. Right? So we are going together to find out what we actually are. 1:10:12 Not be afraid, not get depressed and say, how terrible I am: or how ugly, or how I should be differently, I am not, blah, blah... But actually what we are. Unafraid to look.	1:02:18 而如果我们还有时间的话…… ——我们还有一些时间—— 我们也应该一起来探讨一下关于「死亡」的问题。它并不是一个病态的问题，它并不是一个年老之人才提出的问题。不管我们是年轻还是年老，不管我们将会死于事故、还是死于疾病，「死亡」是全人类的问题。它是我们每一个人都必须要面对的问题。我们都将会死去，不好意思——也许不包括你们—— 但我们都将会死去。你是否曾经设想过…… 如果生活在这个地球上的所有的人永远不会死，那么这个地球将会发生什么？ 1:03:41 所以我们有朝一日都会死去，这是必然的，这是一件可以绝对确定的事。而在这之中就蕴含了极大的幽默。而我们必须像两个正在面对这个问题的朋友那样一起来了解它，不管年轻还是年老，人们都在面对着这个被称为“死亡”的东西。「死亡」是一切事物的终结 ——既包括生物学意义上的事物、也包括心理上的事物。请注意，这是一个非常复杂的问题，我们需要非常小心仔细地来探究它。从生物学上来看，「死亡」是合情合理的；就像一台机器长年累月不停地被使用以后 ——不管是被滥用还是非常小心地使用，任何可以被持续不断使用的东西都会磨损殆尽。 1:05:22 然而我们害怕的并不是这个 ……并不只是害怕这个，我们害怕的是那个「一切都会结束」的事实 ——也就是「死亡」。我们要和「死亡」进行一场对话，和「结束」进行一场对话 ——「结束」就是「死亡」。而这场对话意味着什么呢？你们对它有兴趣吗？谁将会死去呢？是那个生物有机体、那个拥有名字的生物死去了 ——对吧？你看着自己的脸已经看了有五十年或者十年了，或者只看了两天，或者看了八十年。你已经看过了自己的脸，你很熟悉这张脸，你也很熟悉你的名字，熟悉所有你周围的事物和在你之外的事物。 1:06:53 但你并不熟悉「你自己」，你并不了解「你自己」。有人曾经告诉过你“你是什么” ——那些心理学家等等此类人士。然而事实上，他们的解释、他们的陈述并不是实际的你。所以你从来没有熟悉了解自己。因此，除非你熟悉了解了自己，否则你和死亡的对话将是毫无意义的。对吧？我希望我们都理解了对方的意思。所以，我要去了解熟悉我自己。于是我会问：我自己究竟是什么呢？ “我”就是这副身体，就是所有的感官反应 ——那个名字、我外在的样子、我的住址、银行账户、我的工作，所有那些日常生活中我所熟知的东西，以及日常生活中的活动。 1:08:36 因此我们要问：让我们——你和演讲者—— 去熟悉了解自己吧。也就是去清清楚楚地知晓了解自己 ——不是理论上的了解、不是某种意识形态的了解、不是宗教层面猜测性的幻想、或者迷信，而是你的真实模样是什么？我们——我们每一个人——的真实模样是什么？除非我们非常非常小心仔细地知晓了我们自己，研究了他、观察了他、学习了他，看到了那个“我”的所有的错综复杂，除非直到我完全熟悉了解了每一个琐碎的细节、每一个角落，否则我是不可能与「死亡」进行一场富有智慧的交谈的。是吧？所以我们将要一起来搞清楚 “我们实际上是什么”。 1:10:12 不要害怕，也不要感到沮丧，说：我是多么的糟糕、或者多么的丑陋，或者我是多么的需要改变，我还不是什么什么而是：事实上，我们是怎么样的人。不要害怕去看自己。
1:10:39 We are what we have been told; that’s one. We are part of the vast tradition of mankind socially, communally, all the knowledge that we have acquired; that’s one part. And also psychologically, inwardly, what are we? Each one of us – first each one of us, and then we’ll find out if we are… each one of us what we are, whether we are not the entire humanity. Do you understand my question? We are sorrow, pain, grief, happiness, unhappiness, pain, grief and anxiety, loneliness, faith in god, no faith in god, beliefs, dogmas, rituals, vast recording of all the past incidents and accidents, influences, vast complex memories. Right? 1:12:30 Or, you say I am a soul, separate from my body, which Christians believe. But that soul is invented by thought. We must be logical, sane in investigation. The Hindus have their own particular division, Atman and so on, and there too that idea is invented by thought. So we are the entire result of this movement of thought. Right? You can say I am infinite. That very statement is put together by thought; and thought can invent the infinite, the super, super-something. But it’s still thought. So we are the whole network of thought. 1:13:57 Right? Network of memories, experiences, knowledge, which is the past, our reactions and actions; all that is our consciousness. All that is me; the ‘me’ is not separate from that – that is me, my anger, greed, envy, ambition, loneliness, sorrow, uncertainty, seeking security, satisfaction – all that is me. Losing a job, holding on to a job, fearful of the tomorrow of losing a job – that’s me. I am not the lathe, the instrument, but the ‘me’ is the fear of losing. Right? That’s me. 1:15:17 That me has sustained by separating itself – I am me; I am totally different from you. That’s the tradition, that is the accepted norm from childhood. And religions sustain this, because it’s very profitable to encourage an illusion. But you, your consciousness, is shared by all human beings. Right?	1:10:39 我们就是那些别人所描述告知我们的东西 ——这是一个。我们就是人类社会与集体层面的庞大传统的一部分，我们就是所有那些我们已经获得的「知识」…… ——这是其中一部分。此外，在心理上、在内心层面，我们又是什么呢？我们每个人是什么呢——首先来看看我们每一个人，然后我们才会发现我们是否…… 我们每个人……我们究竟是什么，我们究竟是不是全人类？你们理解我的问题吗？我们就是苦难、痛苦、悲伤、幸福、不幸、疼痛、悲痛和焦虑、孤独、信仰上帝、不信仰上帝、各种信仰、教条、宗教仪式、对于所有过去的事件、事故和影响的大量记录，无数错综复杂的记忆。是吧？ 1:12:30 或者你会说“我是一个灵魂，我是独立于我的身体的” ——基督教徒会相信这个。然而那个“灵魂”也是思想发明出来的东西。而在探究的过程中，我们必须合乎逻辑与理智。而印度教徒也有着他们自己特别的“分离独立”的理论 ——比如我是阿特曼（Atman）等等，然而这一概念也是思想发明出来的。所以「我们」是这种思想运动的完整产物。对吧？你可以说“我是无限的”。然而这种说法本身就是由思想所拼凑出来的；思想可以发明出那个“无限之物”、那个“超级之物”，那个“超级啥啥啥”的东西。然而那个东西仍旧是「思想」。所以我们就是思想的整个网络。对吧？ 1:13:57 那种记忆、经验与知识的网络 ——它就是「过去」，我们的各种反应和行动，所有这些就是我们的「意识」。所有这些就是“我”， “我”和这些东西并不是分离的 ——这些东西就是“我”：我的愤怒、贪婪、妒忌、野心、孤独、痛苦、不确定、寻求安全感和满足 ——所有这些就是“我”。失去工作，努力保住工作，害怕明天会失业 ——这就是“我”。我并不是什么“旋床”、也不是什么“器皿”，我只是那种害怕失去的恐惧。对吧？这才是“我”。 1:15:17 这个“我”通过分离孤立自己而得以维持 ——说什么“吾即‘真我’”；我和你是完全不同的。这就是传统的看法，这就是我们从小开始便接受认可的准则。而各种宗教也支持这种观点，因为它对于鼓励人们产生错觉来说是很有用的。然而你……你的意识，它是全人类所共有的。是吧？
1:16:06 Please bear in mind that we are talking over together death. So our consciousness, which is its content, the content is the belief, the dogmas, the rituals, the tradition, the recording, the memories, the whole of that, that very complex movement in consciousness is the movement of all humanity; it’s not yours. You may pretend or stick to the idea that you are a separate person, that you are working for yourself, that you must fulfil your own… this is what every human being in the world is doing. So you are the whole of humanity, because your consciousness is the consciousness of the Russian, of the Hindu, of the most primitive human being on earth. 1:17:32 Yours may be a little more sophisticated, better fed, but you are like the rest of mankind, therefore you are mankind, your consciousness. When you understand, when you have really seen the truth of it, not intellectually accept a perhaps illusory conclusion or a statement – it’s not a statement, it’s not a conclusion, it’s a fact. When you suffer, your neighbour has also suffered. That neighbour may be next door, few yards away, or ten thousand miles away; he also suffers like you. So it’s the common ground which we all stand on. It’s not your ground.	1:16:06 请牢记在心，那就是：我们正在一起讨论「死亡」。所以我们的意识 ——意识就是其内容—— 我们的意识内容就是那些信仰、教条、宗教仪式、传统、记录、记忆，所有这些东西，意识中那些错综复杂的运动，它就是全人类的运动 ——它并不只是你们的运动。你也许可以自称是……或者坚持这种观点 ——认为自己是一个“分离独立”的人，你是在为你自己工作，你必须要去实现你自己的 ——这就是世界上每一个人正在做的事情。所以你就是整个人类，因为你的意识就是俄罗斯人的意识、就是印度人的意识、就是这个地球上那些最原始人类的意识。 1:17:32 你也许稍微精致复杂一点，吃喝不愁，但你和其他所有人并没有什么两样，所以你就是整个人类，你的意识就是全人类的意识。当你理解了这一点，当你真正看到了它的真实性，不是在思维智力上去接受一个也许是虚假的结论或说法 ——这并不是一个“说法”，它也不是一个结论，它是一个事实。当你受苦时，你的邻居也在受苦。这个“邻居”也许是你的隔壁邻居 ——就在离你几码远的地方，或者是离你万里之远的人，那个人也像你一样在受苦。所以它是我们所有人共同立足于的基础。它并不只是你的基础。
1:18:50 When one sees the absolute truth of that, then what is death? You understand? This fact is there, that is a fact. My consciousness is the consciousness of the rest of humanity, therefore I am the rest of humanity. I am humanity. If one realises that it’s got tremendous meaning, depth to that; passion behind it; the responsibility of that is immense; not to another, but to the whole of humanity.	1:18:50 当我们看到了这个绝对的真相以后，那么「死亡」是什么呢？你们理解了吗？这个事实就摆在那儿，它（死亡）是一个事实。我的意识就是其他所有人的意识，因此我就是其他所有的人。我就是全人类。如果我们意识到这一点，它就会具有极大的意义与深度，在它背后将会蕴含着热情；它背负着巨大的责任；不是对于某个人的责任，而是对于全人类的责任。
1:19:56 So what is death? Death is the ending of the organism, that is certain. Death is the ending of what I have considered is mine. Do you understand? Mine – my possessions, my quality, my experiences, my wife, the ending of ‘me’. The ‘me’ is the rest of mankind. So what is death then? Please this is a very serious question, this is not just to be understood this morning, or if you have an insight into it, that is: see the whole truth of it instantly; not take time, thought, and say, ‘I hope what you are saying is nonsense, but I prefer my own individuality’. You’re perfectly welcome. 1:21:30 But to see the fact of it and to remain with the fact that you are nothing but a bundle of memories. And all the noise that bundle makes, rattling about, creating such great misery for the rest of mankind.	1:19:56 所以，什么是「死亡」呢？死亡是有机体的结束，这是确定无疑的。死亡就是那些我认为是我自己的东西的结束。你们能理解吗？我的东西 ——我的财产、我的品德、我的经验、我的妻子，这个“我”结束了。这个“我”就是其他所有的人。所以，那时「死亡」是什么呢？请注意，这是一个非常严肃的问题，它并不只是今天早上需要你去理解的问题，或者说，如果你已对此有所洞察 ——也就是立即看到了它全部的真相；不是花费时间、思考，然后才说， “我希望你所说的东西都是胡扯，我还是更喜欢我自己的个体性”。你当然可以这么说。 1:21:30 然而我们要看到这个事实，然后和这个事实待在一起 ——事实就是：「你」只不过就是一大堆的记忆。还有这堆记忆所发出的所有噪音，叽叽喳喳的，它为其他所有人制造出了如此巨大的痛苦不幸。
1:22:13 And the organism dies. My consciousness is the consciousness of mankind; that’s a fact. And as long as I remain… as long as there is the… no, I’ll put it differently. As long as that consciousness with all the travail and the noise and the bundle of memories, that consciousness is going on infinitely. Right? But if you step out of it, which means the ending; the ending of your beliefs, the ending of your tradition, the ending of your racial prejudices, the ending of all that, ending of your attachments. 1:23:21 Then you are out of… then there is totally a different movement, because there is no longer that movement. There is no longer the movement of thought with all its travail. To go into all this requires tremendous enquiry, meditation, not just verbal assertions. And knowing the word is never the thing.	1:22:13 然后那个有机体死亡了。我的意识就是人类的意识 ——这是一个事实。而只要我还是…… 只要还是存在着…… 不，我还是换个说法吧。只要那个意识还是带着所有那些艰难困苦、噪音和大量记忆，那这个意识就会无限地延续下去。对吧？但如果你从它之中走出来了 ——这意味着「结束」，结束你的信仰、结束你的传统、结束你的种族偏见、结束所有那些东西，结束你的各种「执著依恋」。 1:23:21 那么你便是脱离了…… 那时便会有一种截然不同的运动，因为那时已经不再有之前那种运动了，不再有那种充满艰难痛苦的思想运动了。要探究所有这一切，它需要大量的探询与冥想，而不只是口头上肯定它。我们要明白：那就是「词语文字」永远不是那个它所指的东西。
1:24:03 So as long as you are contributing to violence, violence will go on. As long as you are envious, you’re contributing, encouraging, sustaining the envy which exists in the world. So can you end envy? This is what death is going to be. End envy completely; attachment to ideals, to experience, to systems end. Where there is an ending without any motive – ending – there is a totally different movement. That’s not an encouragement to end. So while one is living – to end. You understand? To end your antagonism to your wife, to end your hurts, to end your psychological ambitions to be somebody. 1:25:58 So that in that ending there is the total movement away from the other. That is the depth and the beauty of death. Immortality is not for the individual. Because individual, the you, is just a structure of memories and bundle of ideas and so on. How can that have immortality? Eternity is not for the limited. There is only that when this idea of total separation is completely gone out of our system.	1:24:03 所以只要你仍旧在助长着暴力，暴力就会持续下去。只要你还是嫉妒的，那你就是在助长、鼓励和维持着存在于这个世界的嫉妒。所以，你能够结束嫉妒吗？这就是死亡将会带来的后果。那就是完全彻底地结束嫉妒、结束对于理想的执著、结束各种经验、结束各种体系。当有了那种没有任何动机的「结束」 ——那种「终结」—— 那时就会有一种截然不同的运动了。这并不是在鼓励你去结束。所以，在我们活着的时候——我们就要去结束。你们理解了吗？去结束你对妻子的敌意，去结束你曾经受到过的伤害，去结束你内心想要成为某号人物的雄心壮志。 1:25:58 由此在这种「结束」之中，就会有一种整体性的运动 ——它是脱离于之前那种运动的。这就是「死亡」的深层意义和「死亡」之美。「永恒不朽」并不是属于“个人”的。因为“个人”、那个“你”，它只是记忆的结构和一堆思想观念等等。这样的东西又怎么可能永恒不朽呢？「永恒」是不会属于那些有限之物的。只有当这种 “（我是）完全和他人分离的”想法从我们的体系中彻底移除以后，才会有「永恒」。我们都可以起来了吧？我们可以起身了吗？
1:27:34 May we get up? May we get up?	1:27:34 提问者：不！
1:27:36 Q: No!	1:27:36 我们都可以起来了吧？我们可以起身了吗？提问者：不！

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