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OJ84Q1 - 第一次问答会
美国加州，欧亥
1984年5月22日



0:50 There have been a lot of questions sent in. And we have chosen some of those questions. We are going to examine the questions, not the answers. It's a dialogue... you ask a question... and the speaker replies to that question. Then you respond to that question. You ask a question, the speaker then responds to your question... then you respond to the speaker's response... and so keep this going... till only the question remains and not the persons. You have understood this? Probably you have not gone into this question of dialogue. I think it is important to understand this... because we are together... going to investigate these questions. And in the process of investigation... you ask a question... the speaker then replies to that question... and you respond to the reply... and then I pick up and reply to that... we go on this way - until only the question remains. You understand? So the question then has tremendous vitality... it is not tinged by any personal prejudice. Have you understood this? We are going to do it, we will see it for ourselves. 有很多问题被提了出来。 我们选了其中的一些问题。 我们将仔细检视这些问题，而不是答案。 这是一场对话 你提出问题 讲话者答复那个问题。 然后你回应那个问题。 你问了一个问题，然后讲话者对你的问题做出回应 然后你再对讲话者的回复做出回应 这样持续下去 直到只剩下问题，而没有了人的存在。 你们明白这点了吗？ 可能你还没深入到对话这个问题中去。 我想，了解这一点很重要 因为我们将一起 审视这些问题。 在审视的过程中 你问了一个问题 然后讲话者对那个问题做出答复 你再对那个答复做出回应 然后我再接过来就此给出回复 我们就这样进行下去-直到只有问题留了下来。 明白了吗？ 那么那问题就具有了巨大的生命力 它不被任何个人偏见所污染。 你明白了这点吗？ 我们将要这么做，我们将要自己看清楚。
3:15 I wonder why we ask questions... and from whom do you expect a reply? It is good to ask questions... the more questions, enquiry, the better. But we expect someone else to answer the question. The question is really a problem. A problem, the root meaning of that word... is something thrown at you. The etymological meaning of the word 'problem' means... something hurled at you, thrown at you, it is a challenge. And we expect others to solve our problems... religious, economic, social... all kinds of problems that human beings have. And therefore it becomes one-sided. You ask the question and the speaker replies to it, if he is silly enough. But if we together investigated the question... the significance of the question... and not move away from the significance of the question... then the answer is in the question. Right? Do you understand this? 我想知道我们为什么要问问题 你想从谁那儿得到一个答案？ 问问题很好 问题和疑问越多越好。 但是我们希望别人来回答这个问题。 那问题实际上是个难题。 问题，词根的意思是 投向你的某个东西。 “问题”这个词在语源学上的意思是 猛掷向你的东西，投向你的东西，是一个挑战。 我们期望别人来解决我们的问题 宗教上、经济上、社会上的问题 人类拥有的各种各样的问题。 那么这就变成了单方面的活动。 你问了一个问题，讲话者回答这个问题，如果他够蠢的话。 但是如果我们一起来审视这个问题 审视这问题的意义 不偏离这问题的意义 那么答案就在问题中。 对不对？你明白这点吗？
5:04 Most of us put questions... then wait for somebody to answer them. So what we are interested in is the answer... and not in the question itself. Whereas the importance is in the question, not in the answer. You will discover this presently. Because this is a question put to the speaker... then the speaker responds to the question... then you pick up that response... and reply to that response, and we keep this going... until the question remains... and not anything else. And when the question becomes extraordinarily important... it has its own vitality, and therefore its own answer. We will see it in a minute. 我们大部分人提出问题 然后等着有人能回答。 所以，我们感兴趣的是答案 而不是问题本身。 然而重要的是问题，而不是答案。 你很快就会发现这点。 因为这是一个对讲话者提出的问题 然后讲话者对它进行回复 然后你接过那个回复 再对它做出回应，我们这样持续下去 直到只有问题保留下来 其他的什么都没有。 当问题变得格外重要 它就有自己的生命力，因而就有自己的答案。 我们很快就会发现这点。
6:14 1st QUESTION: I understand that all people have a similar consciousness... but it seems a vast jump to say... that all people share the same consciousness. Could we walk together slowly between these two points? 第一个问题：我了解所有人都有一个相似的意识 但是其中似乎要经过一个巨大的跨越才能说 所有人都共有同样的意识。 我们可以在这两点之间慢慢地一起往前走吗？
6:35 This is a question that has been put. What is the significance of that question? The questioner says, I understand that all people... have a similar consciousness. What do we mean by understand? I am not being facetious, hair splitting... but I would like to know what you mean by understand. I understand the nuclear bomb will kill... ten million people in one blow. I understand it. I have seen the experiment, not the ten million people blown up... but have seen the mushroom cloud and all the rest of it. Is the understanding merely intellectual, verbal... or the understanding has tremendous significance, depth... and not merely a verbal understanding. Right? I have asked that question. Then you reply to that question: you say, no... when I use the word 'understand'... I don't mean logically... or merely verbally, but I understand it, the meaning... the significance of people having similar consciousness. Right? 这是提出来的一个问题。 这个问题的意义是什么？ 问题说，我了解所有人 都有一个相似的意识。 我们说的“了解”是什么意思？ 我不是在开玩笑，也不是吹毛求疵 而是我想知道你说的“了解”是什么意思。 我了解核弹会一举杀死 数以千万计的人。 我了解这点。 我看过试验，不是说一千万人被炸掉了 而是看到了蘑菇云和所有其他的一切。 这种了解只是智识上的，语言上的呢 还是这种了解具有巨大的意义和深度 而不只是一种语言上的理解。 对不对？ 我问了这个问题。 然后你回答这个问题：你说，不是的 当我用“了解”这个词 我不是说仅仅在逻辑上 或者语言上了解，而是我了解其中的含义 人们拥有相似的意识这句话的意义。 对不对？
8:27 'But it seems a vast jump to say... that all people share the same consciousness. Could we walk together slowly between these two points?' What do we mean by consciousness? You reply to me... there are too many people, therefore I will reply for you. We mean by consciousness to be conscious of things... conscious of the trees round here, people round here... in their various dresses, and hair, and so on. I am aware of it. It is all right, sir. She is perfectly all right if she is quiet. Will you be quiet? What do we mean by being conscious? Being aware. In that awareness see what is happening around us... and the happening, or mere things as they are... and in that awareness... there is a certain choice... I like, I don't like. I like oak trees, I don't like palm trees... or I wish it was something else. So in this awareness there is a sense of choice. Now is there an awareness... which is part of consciousness... in which there is no choice at all? So the speaker puts that question... and the speaker representing you... answers that question, which is... in our awareness there is always choice, choice being... I like, I don't like, I wish it were different and so on. So where there is choice... there is a conflict. Right? Do we see this? Where there is a choice between this and that... this division breeds conflict. Now, is there an awareness without choice? You understand my question? As you cannot reply, I am taking your part... it seems it is very difficult to be aware without choice. And the reply to that is, why? Why is it difficult? Is the word 'difficult' preventing, throwing a barrier? The word 'difficult'. You understand? When I use the word 'impossible'... 'difficult', 'I am a failure'... those words act as a barrier. So in using the word 'difficult' you are already making it difficult. “但是，其中似乎要经过一个巨大的跨越才能说 所有人都共有同样的意识。” 在这两点之间，我们可以慢慢地一起走过去吗？ 我们说的“意识”是什么意思？ 你回答我说 这里有太多人了，所以我会替你回答。 我们说“意识”的意思是，注意到事物 注意到这周围的树，这周围的人 穿着各式各样的衣服，有着各式各样的头发，等等。 我注意到了这些。 没关系，先生。如果她很安静，那她就非常好。 你能安静下来吗？ 我们说“注意到”是什么意思？是觉察。 在那觉察中，看到我们周围发生着什么 发生着的事，或者它们只是一些东西 在那觉察中 有一种选择 我喜欢，我不喜欢。 我喜欢橡树，我不喜欢棕榈树 我希望它是个别的什么。 所以在这种觉察中有一种选择感。 那么，是否有一种觉察 作为意识的一部分 其中根本没有选择？ 所以讲话者提出这个问题 并且讲话者代表你 回答这个问题，即 在我们的觉察中，总是有选择，选择 我喜欢或者不喜欢什么，我希望它能变成别的，等等。 所以，只要有选择 就会有冲突。 对不对？我们看到了这点吗？ 如果在此或彼之间有选择 那么这种划分就滋生了冲突。 那么，是否有种没有选择的觉察？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 因为你不能回答，我就代你做答了 没有选择的觉察，看起来好像很困难。 就此的回应是，为什么呢？ 为什么很困难？ “困难”这个词不正是抛出了屏障产生了障碍吗？ “困难”这个词。 你明白吗？ 如果我用“不可能”这个词 “很困难”，“我是个失败者” 这些词就变成了障碍。 所以用“困难”这个词的话，你就已经把它变得困难了。
12:52 So is it possible to be aware, conscious... without any choice, just to observe? Right? And the reply to that, 'I will try'. And to that reply the speaker says, 'Don't try'. The moment you try you are making an effort. And when you make an effort you don't understand anything. Whereas if you don't make effort... but just see, perceive the actual. Right? And then you may say, sorry, I don't understand it. So I say, let's go into it further. 所以，是否可能觉察，注意到 但没有任何选择而只是观察？ 对不对？ 然后对它的回答是，“我会努力试试。” 对于这个回答，讲话者说，“不要努力”。 你试图尝试的那一刻，你就是在做出努力。 当你做出努力地时候，你什么事情都明白不了。 但是如果你不做出努力 而只是看着，觉察事实。 对不对？ 然后你可能会说，对不起，我不明白。 然后我说，让我们再深入一点。
13:51 I am having fun with this! I haven't read these questions before. I like to look at them first when I am speaking. 我觉得这个很有趣！ 我以前没碰到过这些问题。 在我讲话的时候我想先看看这些问题。
14:09 'But it is a vast jump to say... that all people share the same consciousness.' Is that so or not? That all people throughout the world... share the same consciousness, is that so? And you say, no, it is not the same... each one of us is different... each one of us has his own peculiarities... his own idiosyncrasies... his different environment... different religious upbringing... or non-religious upbringing... educated in different ways... so we do not share all the same consciousness, you reply. And the speaker says, it is not like that... let's look into it, don't assert. You understand? Don't take a position, then it becomes a battle. But if you are pliable, move, enquire... then we are together in this. “但是要经过一个巨大的跨越才能说 所有人共有相同的意识。” 是这样吗？ 世界上所有的人 共有同样的意识，是这样的吗？ 你说，不，不是同样的 我们每个人都是不同的 我们每个人都有他自己的独特性 他自己的气质 他与众不同的环境 不同的宗教教养 或者非宗教教养 不同的受教育方式 所以我们不说意识都是相同的，你如此回答。 于是讲话者说，不是这样的 让我们深入进去，先不要断言。 你明白吗？ 不要先站好立场，否则那就变成争斗了。 但是如果你是柔韧的，在动着，探询着 那么我们就一起在这里了。
15:44 So I say, now let's examine this... very closely, without any bias... taking up any position, that I believe in this... then you can't discuss, you can't explore. So let's examine this. You say, what do you mean examine, explore? Who is exploring? Your own attention, I am not using the word 'interest'. Now we must go into the question of interest and attention. I hope you are coming into this game. 所以我说，现在让我们来检视这点 非常近地，不带任何偏见地 采取任何立场，比如我相信这个 那么你就不能讨论了，你就不能探索了。 所以让我们来检视这点。 你说，“你说的检视、探索是什么意思？” 谁在探索？ 你自己的注意力，我没用“兴趣”这个词。 现在我们必须深入兴趣和注意力的问题。 我希望你加入这场游戏。
16:41 Most educators are concerned with interest... to awaken the interest of children, students... be interested in mathematics... if you are not interested in mathematics be interested in history. The teacher is concerned... with awakening the interest in the student. Right? Isn't that a fact? I want to play the violin. Don't play the violin, it's not worthwhile... because you can't earn a good livelihood... but get interested in something else. And so on. Now where there is interest there is always... a contradictory process going on within oneself. Clear? Oh, no. All right, I'll explain again. 大多数教育者关注的是兴趣 来唤起孩子们、学生们的兴趣 对数学感兴趣 如果你对数学不感兴趣，而对历史感兴趣的话。 老师关心的是 唤起学生的兴趣。 对不对？这不是事实吗？ 我想拉小提琴。 别拉小提琴，那没什么价值 因为你无法以此很好地谋生 去对别的事情感兴趣吧。等等。 哪里有兴趣，哪里就总是有 自我矛盾的过程发生。 清楚了吗？哦，没有。 好吧，我再解释一次。
17:39 I am interested in climbing a mountain. And my teacher says, don't be interested in that... be interested in something much more serious. There is a contradiction immediately. I am interested in wanting to climb the mountain... and the educator says, don't climb the mountain... be interested in what I am saying. So in me there is already a contradiction taking place... wanting to do something else... I have been forced to do something else. Right? So don't use the word 'interest' at all. Then what word would you use, you ask me. I say, find out what is the nature of attention. Right? Are you all so puzzled by all this? What is the nature of attention? The student is very interested in watching something very closely. And I want him to be interested in history, but he is watching... the frog or the lizard, or the bird, out of the window. He is paying much more attention to that... than listening to my demand of history. So I would encourage him, or help him to watch much more carefully. You understand? Much more carefully... so that his whole attention is given to his watching. When he does that then I can see and demand... that he pay attention to everything slowly. Learn to pay attention, not interest. You've got it? 我对爬山感兴趣。 而我的老师说，“别对那个感兴趣 要对更严肃的事情感兴趣”。 矛盾立刻就产生了。 我有兴趣想去爬山 教育者说，别爬山 要对我说的东西感兴趣。 所以在我身上，已经有矛盾发生了 想做别的事 可是被强迫去做了另外一件事。 对不对？所以绝不要用“兴趣”这个词。 “那么你要用哪个词，”你这么问我。 我说，“去发现注意力的本质”。 对不对？ 你们是不是都为此感到迷惑？ 注意力的本质是什么？ 学生总是对近距离地观察一样东西很感兴趣。 我希望他对历史感兴趣，但是他在观察 青蛙或者蜥蜴，或者窗外的鸟。 他在那上面花的注意力远远超过了 听从我对他在历史上的要求。 所以我会鼓励他，或者帮助他更仔细地观察。 你明白吗？ 更加仔细地观察 这样他的整个注意力都集中在了观察上。 当他这么做的时候，我会看到并且要求 他慢慢地对一切都关注。 学着关注，而不是去关心兴趣。你听懂了吗？
19:52 So, let's examine, or explore... that we all share the same consciousness. Wherever we live... whether in the Far East, or in the Middle East, or here... human beings go through terrible times. There is great poverty... in Africa and India, and parts of Asia. There is great suffering. People are anxious all over the world. People are afraid all over the world. And they all want security... both physical as well as psychological. Right? This is a fact. So the fact is common to all of us. Right? You suffer... the Indian in India suffers... the Russian suffers. So human beings, looking at all... the inhabitants of the world... go through this extraordinary phenomenon. Right? All human beings have their own idiosyncrasies... their own way of doing things... their peculiar habits, their fears... their gods,, their beliefs... right through the world this is a common factor. This is so. Right? The speaker says so. And you say, no, it is not like that. I am different from my neighbour. The speaker then says, are you really? You may have a bigger car... a wider garden, beautifully kept... you work at that garden... you may have a bigger house or a smaller house... Right? But the superficial difference... both biologically and physically... is natural, it is there, it is a fact: you are tall... another is short... one is very, very clever... the other is not, and so on. But go beyond that or go below that... which is in the psychological world. In the psychological world... we all share the same sorrow... sorrow is common to all of us. You may have pleasure in one way but it is still pleasure. It is still fear. You may be afraid of the dark... and another may be afraid of some other thing. But fear is common to all of us. Right? 所以，让我们来检验，或者探索 我们共有相同的意识。 不管我们住在哪 住在远东，或者中东，或者这里 人类都经历了恐怖的时期。 有巨大的贫穷 非洲、印度和亚洲的一部分都有。 有巨大的苦难。 全世界的人们都焦虑不安。 全世界的人们都恐惧担忧。 他们都想要安全 身体上以及心理上的安全。 对不对？这是事实。 所以对我们所有人来说，这是共同的事实。对不对？ 你受苦 在印度的印度人也受苦 俄罗斯人也受苦。 所以人类，看看所有 世界上的居民 都经历着这非同寻常的苦难。对不对？ 所有人类都有他们自己的习性 他们自己做事情的方式 他们特定的习惯，他们的恐惧 他们的神祗，他们的信念 走遍整个世界，这是一个普遍的事实。 是这样的。对不对？ 讲话者是这么说的。 而你说，“不，不是这样的。 我和我邻居不一样。” 然后讲话者说，“你真的不一样吗？” 你可能有辆更大的车 更大的花园，收拾得很漂亮 你在那花园里劳作 你可能有栋更大的或者小一些的房子... 对不对？ 但是表面上的不同 包括生理上和身体上的 是很自然的，确实存在，这是事实：你个子高 另一个人矮 一个人非常非常聪明 另一个人不聪明，等等。 而要进入超越那些表层或者潜藏于其下的那个领域 是那心理世界。 在这心理世界中 我们都共有同样的悲伤 悲伤对我们所有人来说是相同的。 你有某种形式的欢愉但那不过还是欢愉罢了。 那还是恐惧。 你可能害怕黑暗 另一个人可能害怕别的东西。 但恐惧是我们所有人共有的。对不对？
23:43 So we all share the same consciousness. And you say to that, it sounds very logical, but is it true? Is it a fact, or are you making something to be a fact... because you want to bring about... a non-individual existence which is unreal? So I say, listen to what I am saying... are you an individual at all? Factually, are you? Because you have a different complexion, different upbringing... you are a Catholic, I am a Protestant... you are a Buddhist, I am a Hindu and so on. Externally you are different, obviously. That is a fact. But inwardly, are you different? Please. You say, yes, I am quite different. What makes you say that you are different? Is it because you think you are different? Or is it a fact that you are different? You understand? Thinking is one thing, and the fact is another. Thinking about a fact is something totally different from the fact. The fact is are you different? Not that you think you are different. Psychologically, inwardly? We cheat, we lie, we want success, we want money. This is a common thing to all human beings. Right? So we are saying there is no individual consciousness... it is not your consciousness. And you say, I don't believe it. It's your invention. I say, look, when you call yourself an individual... what is the meaning of that word 'individual', the meaning? The root meaning of that word, it means indivisible. Right? Are you indivisible or fragmented? You understand? If you are fragmented, as you are, you are not an individual. Don't use that word. You are a fragmented human being... like all other fragmented human beings. Individual means unique. You are not. We would like to be unique, we think we are unique... because we are clever, we are this... you know, which is a form of vanity. 所以说，我们都共有相同的意识。 然后你说，“这听起来符合逻辑，但这是真的吗？ 这是个事实，还是只是你捏造的事实 因为你想带来 一种非个体的不真实存在？” 于是我说，“请听我说的话 你到底是不是一个个体？” 事实上，你是吗？ 因为你有不一样的肤色，不一样的成长背景 你的是个天主教徒，我是个新教徒 你是个佛教徒，我是个印度教徒，等等。 外在地看，你确实不同，这很明显。 这是个事实。 但是内在地，你是不同的吗？ 请想一想。 你说，“是的，我很不一样。” 是什么让你说你是不同的？ 是因为你觉得自己不同吗？ 还是事实上你真的与众不同？你明白吗？ 思考是一回事，事实是另一回事。 思考一个事实，完全不同于那个事实本身。 事实上，你是不同的吗？ 不是你以为自己不同。 心理上，内在地？ 我们欺骗，我们撒谎，我们想要成功，想要金钱。 这对于所有人类来说是共同的事情。对不对？ 所以我们说没有个体意识 那不是你的意识。 然后你说，“我不信。 那是你发明的。” 我说，“看，当你把自己称为一个个体 ‘个体’这个词的意思是什么？它的含义？” 这个词的词根意思是，不可分割的。 对不对？ 你是不可分割的还是支离破碎的？ 你明白吗？ 如果你是支离破碎的，你也正是如此，那么你就不是一个个体。 不要用这个词。 你是个支离破碎的人类 就像其他所有支离破碎的人类一样。 个体意味着独一无二。 你不是。 我们想变得独特，我们认为我们是独特的 因为我们聪明，我们是这样的 你知道，这是一种虚荣的形式。
27:51 So when you examine it very closely, unbiased... without any sense of egotism in this... you find we are humanity. We don't share the same consciousness, we are humanity. I wonder if you understand this? When you hear that statement... either you accept it as an idea... or hearing that statement you make an abstraction of it... and say, it is a good ideal. Right? And you say, you are avoiding the fact... when you make an ideal of the fact. Right? So please look at the fact... that every human being in the world goes through... all kinds of problems, misery, unhappiness... and if he is a clever man and wants to earn money... he does all kinds of crooked things, you know, the whole game. And we all do the same thing in a different way... but the motive, the urge is the same. And you reply to all that, yes, I follow it all logically... but I can't feel... the depth of your statement that we are humanity... the feeling of it. Then the speaker says, why, why don't we feel... this tremendous sense of wholeness in humanity? You understand? Not that we share the earth... the earth is our mother... and we are all born, etc., etc. I know that's the latest fashion... another fad in this country. Do you realise this, we move from fad to fad... the latest box we fall into. 所以，当你很近地不带偏见地检视它时 其中不带任何自我中心感 你会发现我们是整个人类。 我们不共有同样的意识，我们是整个人类。 我想知道你是否明白了这点。 当你听到这个说法 你要么作为一个观点接受它 要么听到这个说法你把它抽象化 然后说，这是个不错的理想。 对不对？ 你说，你是在逃避事实 如果你把这个事实当成了理想的话。 对不对？ 所以，请看着这个事实... ..世界上的每个人经历着 各种各样的问题，苦难，不幸 如果他是个聪明人，想要挣钱 他做各种各样不正当的事情，你知道的，这整个游戏。 我们都在以不同的方式做着同样的事情 其中的动机、渴望是相同的。 对于所有这些，你回答道，“是的，我从逻辑上跟上了 但是我感觉不到 你的说法的深度，即我们是整个人类 感觉不到。” 然后讲话者说，“为什么，为什么我们感觉不到 这种巨大的人类一体感？” 你明白吗？ 不是因为我们共有一个地球 地球是我们的母亲 我们都诞生于世间，等等，等等。 我知道这是最新的时尚 这个国家的另一种流行。 你认识到没有，我们从一种流行走向另一种流行 然后坠入最新的时尚之中。
30:41 So, if one can look at the fact... and not make an idea of it... or an abstraction of it as an ideal... but remain with the fact... that we are really the whole of humanity... psychologically... then that feeling when you remain with the fact... it gives a sense of tremendous energy... and there is no separation in this. 所以，如果一个人能看着这事实 不把它概念化 或者把它抽象为一种理想 而是与这事实共处... 即我们真的是整个人类 心理层面上确实如此 那么，与这事实共处的感觉 就会给你一种巨大的能量感 其中没有分裂。
31:25 Let's move to the next question. 让我们进入下一个问题。
31:34 2nd QUESTION: Have you designated a special teacher... or a person, to carry on your Teachings after you have gone? Someone is claiming this position. 第二个问题：你是否指定过一个特殊的老师 或者一个人，在你过世后来传承你的教诲？ 有人宣称自己获得了这个身份。
31:48 Have you designated a special teacher or person... to carry on your Teachings after you have gone? Where?! Someone is claiming this position. 你是否指定过一个特殊的老师或者人 在你过世后来传承你的教诲？ 在哪呢？！ 有人宣称自己获得了这个身份。
32:13 I wonder why he is claiming this position. I know this is happening. I know the various people who are doing this kind of rubbish... but what are they claiming? Why do they want to follow somebody, after somebody? Suppose - not suppose - K is going to die. The speaker is going to die. That's certain, as all of us are going to die. That is one absolute, irrevocable fact... whether you like it or not. Fortunately, or unfortunately, he has said many things... written some books, and become somewhat... may I use the word 'notoriety'... notorious, not as a criminal... but some kind of freak, or religious teacher, another freak... or some kind of biological exception. And because of that, a sense of reputation in the world... which is so ugly... and it has no meaning, reputation... someone wants, or feels, or thinks himself... that he is going to carry on K's work. Why? Probably it is very profitable... both financially... and you can say, well, I can collect a lot of silly people. This is happening in the world. In the church there is the apostolic succession... you know, handed down. They have it too in India, in a different way. 我想知道他为什么宣称自己获得了这个身份。 我知道这种事情正在发生。 我知道有各式各样的人在做这种垃圾事情 但是他宣称获得的是什么？ 他们为什么想要追随某人，跟随某人？ 假设——不是假设——克要死了。 讲话者要死了。 这是肯定的，因为我们所有人都要死。 这是一个绝对的，不可逆转的事实 不管你喜不喜欢。 幸运的是，或者不幸的是，他说过很多东西 写了些书，变得有些 如果我可以用“臭名昭著”这个词 臭名昭著，不是作为一个罪犯 而是某种怪物，或者宗教导师，另一种怪物 或者某种生物学上的例外。 因此，在这个世界上拥有了某种名誉感 这很丑陋 而且没有意义，名誉 有人想要，或者感觉，或者认为自己 将继续克的工作。 为什么？ 可能这非常有利可图 不仅在钱财上 而且你可以说，“好，我可以聚集一堆愚蠢的人。” 世界上正发生着这种事。 在教会里有宗徒传承 你知道的，传位下去。 这种事情他们在印度也有，方式不同而已。
34:50 So we all love authority. We all want to follow someone who says, I know. And we are all so gullible. We never say, look, I just want to live... I want to find out what you say, what you are... not what you represent, or your symbol, and all the rest of it. What you are. And you begin to doubt, question, what you are. And you soon discover that it is nothing very much. 所以说我们都爱权威。 我们都想跟随某个说“我知道”的人。 我们都这么容易上当受骗。 我们从不说，“看，我只是想生活 我想去发现你说的话，你是怎样的人 不是你代表谁，或者你的象征以及等等其他的。” 你是怎样的人。 你开始质疑，询问“你是怎样的人”。 你很快就会发现没什么大不了的。
35:42 So, K is saying, the speaker is saying... he has designated no one... no teacher, or anyone to represent... after he has gone to... England. where he is going next week. It is all rather silly, isn't it? 所以，克说，讲话者在说， 他没有指定任何人 任何导师，或者任何人作为代表 在他去了 英国之后， 他下周要去那里。 这相当愚蠢，是不是？
36:27 3rd QUESTION: What do you mean by observing thought... down to its very roots? I watch my thoughts... but each one leads to another in an endless chain. What is the factor that ends this? What actually brings change? 第三个问题：深入到思想的根源 去观察思想，你这么说是什么意思？ 我看着我的思想 但是每个思想都引起另一个思想，循环往复永无停歇。 终止这些的因素是什么？ 什么带来真正的改变？
36:54 What do you mean by observing thought down to its very roots? I watch my thoughts but each one leads to another in an endless chain. What is the factor that ends this? What actually brings change? 你说深入到思想的根源去观察它，这是什么意思？ 我看着我的思想，但是每个思想都引起另一个思想，循环往复永无停歇。 终止这些的因素是什么？ 什么带来真正的改变？
37:21 We will answer this question. We will stop this back and forth. One of the questions is... can thought be aware of itself? One is thinking about... what you will do when you get home. You are thinking what you will do when you get back. And you want to find out... what is the quality of that thought... and can that thought be aware of itself? You understand my question? I am thinking of my next meal. Now can thought be aware that it is thinking of the next meal? Or is there an observer who says... I am thinking about my next meal? You understand? Right? Is the observer different from the observed? You understand? Is he different? Or both are thought? Isn't it? The observer is thought... and that which he is observing as thought is still thought. So the observer is thought. The observer is all the accumulated memories of the past. Right? And the observer then says... I am going to watch my thinking. I am going to watch what I think. I want to find out the root of my thinking. Right? The observer is saying this. But the observer is also thought. So two thoughts, one thought is watching the other thought. So the common factor between the two is thought. Right? 我们将回答这个问题。 我们将停止这循环往复。 其中一个问题是 思想能觉察它自己吗？ 你在考虑 你回家以后要做些什么。 你在考虑你回去以后要做些什么。 你想要发现 思想的特质是什么 思想能否觉察自己？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 我在考虑我的下一顿饭。 那么思想能够发现自己正在想下一顿饭吗？ 还是有一个观察者说 我在考虑我的下一顿饭？ 你明白吗？ 对不对？ 观察者是不同于被观察者的吗？ 你明白吗？ 是不同的吗？ 还是都是思想？ 不是吗？ 观察者是思想 他当做思想来观察的东西还是思想。 所以说观察者就是思想。 观察者是过去积累起来的所有记忆。 对不对？ 然后观察者说 我要观察我的思想。 我要观察我在想什么。 我想要找出我思想的根源。 对不对？ 观察者在这么说。 但是观察者也是思想。 所以，两个思想，一个思想在观察另一个思想。 所以这两者之间共同的因素是思想。 对不对？
40:20 And what is the root of thought? That is the question. What is the root of it? What is the root of all our thinking... because we all think. The greatest scholar, the great scientists... and the most ignoramus, the most primitive person thinks. So what is the root of thinking? And is it possible to find the root of thinking... and is it also possible not to think at all? We are going to go into all that. 而思想的根源是什么？ 这是个问题。 它的根源是什么？ 我们所有思想的根源是什么 因为我们都思考。 最伟大的学者，最伟大的科学家 最无知的人，最原始的人都思考。 那么思想的根源是什么？ 是否可能发现思想的根源 而且是否可能根本就不思考？ 我们将深入所有这些问题。
41:38 If I ask you a question, what is thinking, what is your reply? Probably you would say, I have never thought about it... I have never gone into this question. And I say, why not... because all your life is based on thought... business, everything you do is based on thought? Why aren't you interested in finding out what is thinking? What's wrong with you? You explore so many things... you go under the sea, you go in the air... you do all kinds of things, exploring... but you have never given... your energy or your urge... to find out what is thought. And you say, sorry, I have never done it. And so we say: look... carefully observe what thought is first... what it does... what it has done in the technological world... and also what it is doing psychologically... what it is doing in its relationship to others. This whole movement, the technological world... what is happening psychologically, inwardly... and what is happening in your relationship through thought. This movement of thought, from the extreme technological world... to the personal psychological world, and the relationship... between the psychological world and the next person. It's the same movement, thought. 如果我问你一个问题，思想是什么，你怎么回答？ 可能你会说，“我从没想过这个 我从没深入过这个问题。” 然后我说，为什么不呢？ 因为你所有的生活都是基于思想啊 事业，你所做的每一件事都基于思想。 你为什么对发现思想是什么不感兴趣呢？ 你出了什么问题？ 你探索那么多东西 你深入海底，你进入高空 你做各种各样的事，探索着 但是你从未将 你的能量或者你的渴望 用于发现思想是什么。 然后你说，“对不起，我从未做过这件事。” 于是我们说：看着 先仔细地观察思想是什么 它在做什么 它在技术世界做了些什么 又在心理领域做着些什么 它在和别人的关系中做了什么。 这整个运动，在技术世界进行着 在心理层面，内在地发生着什么 通过思想你的关系发生着什么。 这个思想的运动，从纯粹的技术世界 到个人心理世界 到他的心理世界和另一个人之间的关系。 都是同样的运动，思想。
44:12 Now what does it do in the relationship between you and another? Right? What does it do? You say, I don't know, because I have never thought about it. Even if I thought about it I don't know how to go into it. And you leave it like that, hoping somebody will come along... and explain the whole thing. Which means that you are not... forgive me for pointing out... you are not really concerned. If you are concerned you work at it. You are concerned to earn a livelihood... and you jolly well work at it. But here you say, sorry, I am used to this, or my parents... past generation upon generation, are used to thinking... they have never gone into this question at all. And so you brush it aside and go on. 那么，在你和别人之间的关系中，它的作用是什么？ 对不对？它做什么？ 你说，“我不知道，因为我从来没想过。 即使我想过，我也不知道该怎么深入。” 然后你把它就这么扔在一边，希望有人会走过来 解释这整件事情。 这意味着你并不 请原谅我指出来 你并不真的在意。 如果你在意，你会花工夫的。 你关心的是赚钱谋生 你的确在那上面花很多工夫。 但是这里你说，“对不起，我习惯了这些，或者我的父母 一代代的祖先，都习惯于思考 他们根本从来没有深入过这个问题。” 所以你就把它扫在一边，继续原来的生活。
45:24 Whereas if you begin to apply, look, perceive... committed to find out... you must find out... then you say... why is it that I can answer certain things very quickly... instantly... other things I take time. Right? So an instant response... taking time before response... and ultimately saying, I really don't know, I don't know. Right? These are our states of thinking... instant reply, taking time... to respond to a question... thinking, looking, watching, asking... reading about it and then say, this is the answer. And the other is to say, I really don't know. So these are the states we go through. Now when you answer quickly... you are familiar with it, it's everyday. You know the way to your home, you know the way... to turn on the heater and so on, wash the dishes. But if one asks you something much more complex you take time. And if there is a question... like is there eternity, you say, I don't know. When you say, 'I don't know'... either you are waiting for somebody to tell you... or you don't accept anything from anybody... but you say, I don't know. Right? 但是，如果你开始致力于看，觉察 致力于发现 你必然会发现 然后你说 “为什么我能很快地回答某些问题 立刻回答 而另一些问题我就得慢慢来。” 对不对？ 所以，立刻回答，或者 在回答之前要花时间 最后说，“我真的不知道，我不知道。” 对不对？ 这些就是我们思想的状态 立刻回答，或者慢慢来 回应一个问题 思考，查看，观察，询问 阅读，然后说，这就是答案。 而另一个说，我真的不知道。 所以这是我们经历的状态。 那么，当你回答的很快 这种情况你很熟悉，每天都在发生。 你知道回家的路，你知道该如何 打开加热器等等，如何洗盘子。 但是如果有人问你更复杂的事情，你就得花时间慢慢来。 如果有个问题 比如是不是有永恒，你会说，“我不知道”。 当你说“我不知道”的时候 要么你在等别人告诉你 要么你不接受任何人说的任何事 但是你说，“我不知道”。对不对？
47:40 So let's examine what is the root of thinking. Please, you must work at this... otherwise there is no fun in this... just to listen and say, yes, this is so, and walk off. But to apply, find out, go into it... then it becomes extraordinarily interesting. Thought is surely memory... or rather the response of memory. Right? If there was no memory you can't think. That's obvious. If you are in a state of amnesia you can't think. So what is memory? Please, you are working, just don't listen... you are working to find out. What is memory? One is driving a car, going along... and you look in another direction... and you have an accident - I hope not you, I am. I am having an accident. And that accident causes pain and all the rest of it. So that accident has been recorded in the brain... as memory of that incident. Right? So that accident has brought certain knowledge. Right? And that accident has been an experience. Right? So that accident is an experience... which has brought knowledge... and that knowledge has been stored in the brain as memory. Right? And the response to that memory is thought. Right? That's simple. Right? So my experience is limited... my knowledge is limited... my memory is limited, so my thought is limited. Right? These are facts. So whatever thought does is limited. Whatever it does, whether it imagines... there is eternity, it's limited... whether god, invented by thought... that god will still be limited. I can give him various attributes, say he is omnipotent... he is all powerful, all compassionate, but he is still limited... because thought has put him there. Right? 所以让我们来检视思想的根源是什么。 请你们务必致力于此 否则这没什么好玩的 只是听了然后说，“是的，就是这样”，然后走掉。 而是要致力于，去发现，去深入 于是这变得极其有趣。 思想确实是记忆 或者是记忆的反应。 对不对？ 如果没有记忆，你就不能思考。 这很明显。 如果你处于失忆症状态，你就不能思考。 那么记忆是什么？ 请注意，你是在工作，不要只是听 你是在努力发现。 记忆是什么？ 你在开车，往前开 可你往别的方向看 然后就出了意外-我希望不是你，是我。 我发生了意外。 那场意外导致了痛苦以及其他所有一切。 于是那场意外就被记录在了脑子里 成为那场意外的记忆。 对不对？ 所以那场意外带来了某种知识。 对不对？ 那场意外成为一次经验。 对不对？ 那场意外是一次经验 它带来了知识 那知识被当做记忆储存在了脑子里。 对不对？ 而对那记忆的反应就是思想。 对不对？这很简单。 对不对？ 所以我的经验是局限的 我的知识是局限的 我的记忆是局限的，所以我的思想是局限的。 对不对？这些是事实。 所以，不管思想做的是什么，总是局限的。 不管它做什么，不管它是不是想象 有永恒存在，它是受限的 思想发明的上帝 那上帝也还是局限的。 我能给他很多特性，比如说他是万能的 他是无所不能的，大慈大悲，但他还是局限的 因为是思想把他放在那儿的。 对不对？
51:26 So thought is limited. Right? Do we see this fact? Not my explanation of the fact... but the fact that thought is always limited... because it is based on knowledge. Knowledge can expand... more, and more, and more, and more. When there is more, there is still more. You understand? More is a measurement. Right? So the 'more', which is measurement... and that measurement is limited. Whenever I say, I am better, it is limited. Right? 所以思想是局限的。 对不对？ 我们看清这个事实了吗？ 不是我对这个事实的解释 而是思想总是受限的这个事实 因为它是以知识为基础的。 知识可以扩展 变得越来越多，越来越多。 当已经有了更多，还会有更多。 你明白吗？ 更多是一种衡量。 对不对？ 所以，“更多”作为一种衡量 这种衡量本身就是局限的。 无论何时，只要我说，“我更好”，那就是局限。 对不对？
52:33 So thought is limited. And all our actions based on thought naturally must be limited. Clear? That's a fact. Now what does limitation do? When I am thinking about myself, which is very limited... I spend all my days thinking about myself... that limitation creates... trouble for somebody else... to my wife, to my husband, to my children... because I am thinking about myself which is very small. Any action that is limited must bring conflict. Right? My country, small... the country may be enormous... many thousands of miles across... but my concept of my country is very small. I can imagine it is not... but it is still that imagination saying... it is very large, it is marvellous - it is still limited. So that limitation is creating conflict with another limitation... with a British limitation, or... which is your common enemy now? So it goes on. 所以思想是局限的。 那么我们所有基于思想的行动自然必定是局限的。 清楚了吗？ 这是个事实。那么，局限又起到什么作用呢？ 当我考虑我自己，这是很局限的 我花去所有的时日考虑我自己 这种局限就制造了 别人的麻烦 给我妻子，我的丈夫，我的孩子们制造了麻烦 因为我在考虑我自己，这是很渺小的。 局限的行为必然带来冲突。 对不对？ 我的国家，渺小的国家 这国家可能幅员辽阔 跨越数千英里 但是我对我的国家的概念十分渺小。 我能想象它不渺小 但是还是那个想象在说 它是伟大的，它是奇妙的-那依然是局限的。 所以那局限制造了和另一个局限之间的冲突 和一个英国的局限，或者 现在你们共同的敌人是谁？ 于是它继续下去。
54:17 So, do we see this fact that limitation... must create division and therefore conflict? And we have accepted conflict as inevitable... as part of our existence. And we have never asked... is it possible to live without conflict? And it is only possible if you understand... the whole significance of thought. And to find out what place has thought... and where thought has no place at all. You understand? Thought has a place... when you go from here to your house, drive a car... write a letter, do your business, the computer... and all the rest of it, thought there is necessary. And in the psychological world is it necessary at all... which is my relationship with another? Go into it, sir, work it out. In your relationship with another, intimate or not... has thought a place... knowing that thought is limited, divisive, therefore conflict? If you see that as an actuality... not just a theory, a concept... then that very perception, the seeing of it... then relationship means something entirely different. Right? 所以，我们是否看清了这个事实，即那局限 必然制造界分，进而制造冲突？ 我们已经接受冲突是不可避免的 是我们生存的一部分。 我们从未问过 是否可能没有冲突地生活？ 只有你了解了 思想的整个作用那才有可能。 去发现思想的作用是什么 发现思想根本没有作用的那个地方在哪？ 你明白吗？ 思想有它的作用 当你从这里开车回家的时候 写信，做生意，打电脑 以及其他所有一切，思想在这里是必要的。 而在心理世界，到底需不需要它 在我和别人的关系中需要吗？ 深入进去，先生，解决它。 在你和别人的关系中，不管亲密与否 思想有它的地位吗 知道了思想是局限的，分裂的，因而是冲突的？ 如果你看清这是一个事实 不只是一个理论，一个概念 那么这觉察本身，看到事实本身 就让关系的意义完全不同了。 对不对？
56:22 So one asks then much further... perhaps this is not the moment... is love an attribute of thought? What is the relationship of love to thought? Has it any relationship, or no relationship at all? We will go into that when we talk about all this. 于是一个人进一步问 也许时候还没到 爱是思想的一个特质吗？ 爱和思想的关系是什么？ 它们有任何关系吗？还是根本就无关？ 在谈到所有这些的时候，我们会深入进去的。
57:01 But the question is: what is the root of thought... and whether thought can bring about a change? Please understand, this is the question. What is the factor that ends this... the continuity, the chain of continuity... and what actually brings change? Can thought bring change? You understand? That which is limited thinks it can change. And therefore when it tries to change it will still be limited. I wonder if you see all this. This is not clever, logical conclusions but actuality. There must be change in human behaviour... human endeavour, human existence. That's obvious. But when thought organises the change... that change is still limited, therefore no change at all. When thought says, I am going to create an organisation... the new world, the new box you invent... that is created by thought. Therefore that organisation, that foundation, that institution... is limited, and it is going to create conflict. Right? 但是现在的问题是：思想的根源是什么 思想是否能带来改变？ 请了解，这是那个问题。 终结这些的因素是什么 这连续性，这连续的链条 什么会带来真正的改变？ 思想能带来改变吗？ 你明白吗？ 那局限的东西以为它能改变。 所以当它努力改变的时候，它还是局限的。 我想知道你是否看到了这些。 这不是机巧的逻辑的结论，而是事实。 人类的行为必然会改变 人类的努力，人类的存在会改变。这是很明显的。 但是如果是思想组织了这些改变 那么那改变就依然是局限的，因而根本就没改变。 当思想说，我要创造一个组织 一个新世界，你发明的新匣子 这都是思想制造的。 所以，那组织，那基金会，那机构 是局限的，将会制造冲突。 对不对？
59:07 So what is it that brings about change? You are following all this? Somewhat at least. Thought obviously cannot. It can organise change. Organisation is put together by thought. It can plan change but the planning is limited. So when one realises, sees the fact, the truth... that thought cannot possibly bring about a change... because thought itself is limited... and therefore whatever it does is limited. Right? Therefore what will bring change? 那么，是什么带来改变？ 你们跟上这些了吗？ 至少跟上一些了吧。 很明显思想不能。 它能组织改变。 组织是思想造作的。 它能计划改变，但计划是受限的。 所以当一个人认识到，看到这事实，这真相 即思想不可能带来改变 因为思想本身是局限的 所以无论它做什么都是局限的。 对不对？那么什么会带来改变？
1:00:16 The thing is laid before you very clearly. Verbally, the description is accurate... not exaggerated... and it's left to you to answer that question... as thought cannot possibly bring about change, mutation... total psychological revolution... then what will? So thought says, 'Yes, god, I'll pray.' This is happening. 'I'll pray.' Prayer again is invented by thought, therefore very limited. So if one sees the fact, the truth... that thought is absolutely limited... then what takes place in the brain? Answer it, examine. When one realises actually the fact... and an enormous fact it is... it is a tremendous revolution to see the fact. Already revolution has taken place when you see the fact. Because we never... we said, thought can do anything... it can, it has gone to the Moon, and put a silly flag on there. It can do anything, but always limited. If you see that revolutionary fact... there is already a mutation of the cells themselves in the brain. I wonder if you understand this? 事情已经清晰地呈现在你眼前。 语言上，描述是准确的 没有夸张 这个问题留给你来回答 既然思想不可能带来改变，突变 带来彻底的心理革命 那么什么会呢？ 于是思想说，“是的，上帝，我会祈祷。” 这确实在发生。“我会祈祷的。” 祈祷也是思想发明的，因而是很局限的。 所以，如果一个人看清这事实，这真相 即思想是绝对局限的 然后脑子里会发生什么？ 回答它，检视它。 当一个人真正认识到了事实 这个巨大的事实，那么 看清这个事实就是一个巨大的革命。 当你看到这个事实时，革命就已经发生了。 因为我们从未...我们说，思想能做任何事 它能，它已经登月了，还把一面愚蠢的旗子插在了那儿。 它能做任何事请，但总是局限的。 如果你看到了这个革命性的事实 脑子里的细胞本身就已经发生了突变。 我想知道你们明白了这点吗？
1:02:49 One has walked all one's life north... going always north - suppose. And you come along and say, sorry, that leads nowhere... try going east or west or south. And I say, yes, I'll go south. The very movement, where you had been going north... has now suddenly changed to going south. There is a mutation taking place... a change has taken place. You have been going north habitually day after day... so the brain is conditioned going north. Now you come and say, there is nothing there, you explain it... logically, sanely, so you say, quite right, I'll go south. That movement away from the north has brought about... a mutation in the very brain cells themselves. Right? You won't accept this, go into it, you will see it for yourself. The realisation of a truth... that very realisation brings a radical change. There is no, 'I will meditate to change... I'll make an effort to change.' 一个人一辈子都在往北走 总是往北走-假设说。 你过来说，“对不起，往那边走哪儿也去不了 试着往东面或者西面或者南面走走。” 于是我说，“是的，我会往南走。” 你往北走的那个动作本身 现在就突然变成了往南走。 有一个突变发生了 改变发生了。 你之前一直习惯性地往北走，日复一日 所以头脑一直受限着往北走。 现在你过来说，那边什么都没有，你也解释了 逻辑地，理性地解释了，于是你说，很对，我要往南走。 离开向北的那行动本身就带来了 脑细胞自身的突变。 对不对？ 你不要接受这些，深入进去，你自己会看清楚。 认识到真相 那认识本身就带来了根本的改变。 没有什么“我会冥想去改变 我会努力改变。”
1:04:30 4th QUESTION: Please explain what you mean by saying... that if one perceives truth and does not act... it acts as poison. 第四个问题：请解释你说的这句话是什么意思 “如果一个人看到了真相而不去行动 那真相就成为一种毒药。”
1:04:46 Do you need an explanation for that? All right. I have heard the truth that thought is limited. That's the truth, that's not an invention... that's not an exotic idea... something conceived by some idiot or other, it's a fact. And I listen to the fact, the truth of it. And I carry on my daily life. What takes place? I have realised something to be true... and I am acting quite the opposite to that. What happens? Conflict increases more and more and more. It is much better not to hear the truth... then you can carry on in your old way. But the moment you hear something... to be extraordinarily beautiful... and that beauty is not just a mere description... but the actuality of that beauty... when you do something ugly... and keep on repeating doing the ugly thing, it is obviously a poison. It not only affects you physically, inwardly... and also it affects a great deal the brain... that has heard something to be true and does the contrary. Therefore it's much better not to hear... if you want to carry on in your old way. 你需要解释一下这个吗？ 好吧。 我听到了真相，即思想是局限的。 这是真相，不是一项发明 不是一个奇思妙想 不是某个白痴或者别人想出来的东西，而是个事实。 我听了这个事实，这个真相。 然后我继续自己的日常生活。 然后会发生什么？ 我认识到某件事是真实的 但是我的行为恰好相反。 然后会发生什么？ 冲突在增加，越来越多，越来越多。 没听过这个真相反而要好得多 那么你就会继续自己原有的生活方式。 但是当你一听到某种 非同寻常的美丽 那美不只是一个描述 而是那美的事实 当你再做丑陋的事情 不断反复地做那丑陋的事情，那明显就变成了一种毒药。 它不仅会从身体上，内在地影响你 而且还深深地影响你的大脑 因为你听到了那真实正确的却做了相反的事情。 所以还不如不听 如果你想要继续原来的生活方式的话。
1:07:16 There is a very good story of two robbers. And they have been robbing... and their father has been praising god... for his kindness, for their benefit - you understand... thieves have also gods, not only the rich people. So one day they have been robbing somebody or other... and they are coming back. In the patio, in the square, piazza... there is a man giving a sermon, and he is saying... you must never steal... you must never hurt another, be kind. The other brother closes his ears, he doesn't want to hear... and the other brother hears it. And for the rest of his life he is in pain. 有一个很好的故事，讲两个强盗。 他们一直在抢劫 他们的父亲一直在感谢上帝 感谢他的仁慈和施舍——你知道 贼也有上帝，不光是富人才有。 于是有一天，他们抢劫了某个人或者别的人 然后回来了。 在露台，在院子里，门廊那儿 有个人在布道，他说 “你们不可以再偷盗 你们必须不再伤害别人，要善良。” 其中一个兄弟关闭了自己的耳朵，他不想听 而另一个兄弟听到了。 他此后的余生一直处于痛苦中。
1:08:39 I think this is a fact, really a great fact... and we don't seem to realise it... that when something enormously beautiful... you see, you are sensitive enough to see that beauty... and you do something ugly... it really tortures you, if you are sensitive. And that's why truth is such a dangerous thing. 我想这是个事实，真真正正的巨大事实 而我们看起来并没有认识到 当一个极其美丽的东西 你看到了，你足够敏感能看到那美 可你却做了丑陋的事情 这对你真是种折磨，如果你是敏感的。 那就是为什么真相是这么危险的东西。
1:09:36 5th QUESTION: Why is the observance of silence... so important for seekers of truth? 第五个问题：为什么观察寂静 对真理的追求者如此重要？
1:09:44 Why is the observance of silence so important for seekers of truth? 为什么观察寂静对真理的追求者如此重要？
1:09:50 Who said this? Who said that the observance of silence... is necessary to perceive truth? Has the speaker said it? Or some other person said it? Or have you searched for truth... and you have discovered silence is necessary? Can truth be searched? You understand my question? Can truth be sought after? If you seek truth you have already established what truth is. Right? You are already moving in that direction. Which means truth is something fixed... and you, in your search for truth you find it... because truth is already preconceived... and you go after it. 这是谁说的？ 谁说观察寂静 是觉察到真相所必需的？ 讲话者这么说过？ 还是有别的人这么说过？ 还是你寻求过真理 然后发现寂静是必需的？ 真理能被追寻吗？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 真理能被追寻吗？ 如果你追寻真理，那你就已经确定真理是什么了。 对不对？ 你已经在朝着那个方向前进了。 那意味着真理是个固定的东西 而你，通过找寻，能够发现真理 因为真理已经被预想出来了 你要去追寻它。
1:11:14 Now, why do you think silence is necessary? I don't know. Somebody says so. So I am not going to listen to another, however reputed... or has a great reputation and all that nonsense. I am going to find out. Can a chattering mind, brain, chattering, ever listen to anything? You are chattering, talking to your friend, and you come along and say... I want to tell you something. You don't listen because you are chattering. So can a chattering mind listen? Obviously not. So to listen you have to pay attention. Right? That's natural. To pay attention... is rather difficult because we never attend to anything completely... we say partially, listen partially... talk partially, and do this partially. We never proceed to find out anything to its very end. I don't know where the end is but we will go on... until we discover something. So can a chattering mind, can a mind that is occupied... from morning until night, and during the night... can it ever be quiet? Not to find truth, good god! It's an ordinary question. Please answer it for oneself... can a brain that is occupied... with business, with sex, with pleasure, with fear... with its loneliness, you follow, occupied with something or other... with its hair, how it looks, how it doesn't look. You know, all the rest of it - it is occupied... with god, with Jesus... with saviours, with meditation... think of that: being occupied with meditation! 那么，你为什么觉得寂静是必需的？ 我不知道。 有人这么说。 所以我不想听别人说，不管他多么有名 或者有巨大的声望以及所有那些废话。 我要去发现。 一颗喋喋不休的心，头脑，喋喋不休地，能倾听任何事情吗？ 你在闲聊，跟你的朋友说话，然后你走过来说 我想告诉你一件事。 你不会听，因为你在聊天。 所以，一颗喋喋不休的心能够聆听吗？ 很明显不能。 所以要倾听，你就得付出注意力。 对不对？这是自然的。 付出注意力 这相当难，因为我们从不全神贯注于任何事 我们部分地说，部分地听 部分地谈话，部分地做这些。 我们从不前去发现任何事情的最尽头。 我不知道终点在哪，但是我们会继续 直到我们有所发现。 所以，一颗喋喋不休的心，一颗被占据的心 从早到晚，在夜里也被占据着 它能安静下来吗？ 不要去寻找真理，老天！ 这是个普通的问题。 请自己去解答 一个被占据的头脑 被生意，被性，被欢愉，被恐惧 被孤独，（你跟上了吗）被这样或那样的事占据 被发型，外表看起来如何或者不如何所占据。 你知道，所有这些东西，它被占据着 被上帝，耶稣 被救世主，被冥想占据 想想这个：被冥想占据！
1:14:17 So the natural question then is: is it possible to stop... this tremendous endless continuity of occupation? It would be natural to stop... when you are attending to something. If you are attending to what the speaker is saying now, attend... which is listening, you are not occupied, you are listening. But in that listening you say, no, I don't quite agree with that... I think you are right, I think you should put it differently... I understand this differently... why do I understand it differently, and so on. But if you actually listen... you are attentive, and attention is silence. Right? I wonder why we make everything so complex. Life is complex, tremendously... like the computer... it is a tremendously complex thing. But to understand it one must have a very simple mind. To have a simple clear mind, uncluttered... then attention becomes extraordinarily simple. 所以问题自然就是：有没有可能停止 这巨大的延绵不绝的占据？ 那占据自然会停止 如果你全神贯注于某件事。 如果你全神贯注于讲话者现在说的话，关注 就是倾听，你就没有被占据，你在聆听。 但是如果你听的时候说，“不，我不太同意你说的话 我想你是对的，我想你应该换种方式说 我对此的理解不同 我为什么理解得不同，等等。 但是如果你是真的在倾听 你在关注，那关注就是寂静。 对不对？ 我想知道为什么我们把每件事都变得这么复杂。 生活是复杂的，非常复杂 就像计算机一样 它是个非常复杂的事情。 但是要了解它，就必须有一颗非常简单的心。 拥有一个简单清澈的心，没有喋喋不休 那么注意力就变得格外简单。
1:16:08 That's enough for today. Are you all right? It's over. 今天就讲到这里。 你还好吧？ 结束了。