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OJ84T4 - 爱是意识的一部分吗？
第四次公共讲话
美国加州，欧亥
1984年5月27日



1:07 This is the last talk... or conversation between two friends. We have been talking during the last three talks... about various aspects of life. We said how important it is... to have the capacity to doubt... to question everything that is taking place in the world... not only externally but also inwardly - all our thoughts... our feelings... if one is aware of one's own illusions... to question all those. Because scepticism without cynicism... has a great beneficial effect. Our brains are programmed for two thousand years... according to the Christian world, and the Hindus... and the Buddhists, three to five thousands years. They have been programmed like a computer... Catholics, Americans, Russians... believers, non-believers... specialists, psychoanalysts, psychiatrists... and so on, scientists, doctors. We have been programmed, and of that there is no doubt... because this programming has resulted in our being conditioned. And unless we question, doubt... have a great deal of sane scepticism... the brain can never be free. And freedom and to be free are two different things. If we may go into all that. 这是最后一次谈话 或者说最后一次两个朋友间的对话。 在过去的三次谈话中我们一直在讨论 有关生活的各个方面。 我们说过这些有多么重要 拥有质疑的能力 去质疑世界上正在发生的每一件事 不仅仅是外在的还包括内在的 - 我们所有的思想 我们的各种感受 如果一个人注意到他自己的幻觉 去质疑所有这些。 因为不带有犬儒主义色彩的怀疑 会让你受益匪浅。 我们的大脑被程序化了两千余年 根据基督教世界，以及印度教 和佛教，已有3到5千年。 人们就像电脑一样被程序化了 天主教徒、美国人、俄国人 信教者、非信教者 专家、心理分析学家、精神病学家 等等，科学家、医生。 我们都被程序化了，并且对其没有质疑 因为这种程序化已经导致了我们是被禁锢的。 除非我们质疑、怀疑 拥有强大的理智的怀疑 否则我们的大脑将永远不能自由。 解脱和自由是两件不同的事情。 我们是否可以探讨一下这些。
3:48 We are going to talk about various things this morning... freedom, desire... and the importance of thought... and what is religion... upon which most civilisations are based... most cultures are born... out of this religious aspect of life. And also we are going to talk over together... the very complex problem of what is meditation. All this we are going to talk over together this morning. And also, if one may remind you again... if it is not too repetitive... that this is not in any way entertainment... not something you attend for a weekend... and forget all about it afterwards. But rather it is concerned with our daily life... which has become so disturbed... chaotic, uncertain, confused. 今天上午，我们将要探讨各种不同的事情 解脱、欲望 思想的重要性 什么是宗教 大多数的文明是基于宗教的 大多数文化也是来源于 我们生活中宗教的方面。 并且我们将一起来探讨 什么是冥想，这个极为复杂的问题。 以上这些就是我们将要在今天早上一起探讨的。 并且，如果我可以重新提醒你们一下 假如这不会很罗嗦 我们探讨的这些绝不是消遣 不是你周末会去参加的什么活动 过后却把它忘得一干二净。 而它是与我们的生活息息相关的 我们的生活已变得如此扰乱 混乱、不确定、迷惑。
5:34 And this conditioning... this being programmed... one must understand the nature of it... and see whether it is possible at all to be free of it... otherwise there can be no creation... it will all be invention. Invention is totally different from creation. A technical invention is the product of thought. Invention along any lines... poetic, religious, technological and so on... that's fairly comparatively easy... but to find out... as most religions have tried to find out... what is creation... and to understand the nature of it... the depth of it, and the beauty of it... one must understand and be free from being programmed. 这种局限 这种被程序化的情况 每个人都必须理解到它的本质 去看看究竟是否可能从中解脱 否则就不会存在创造 而将全部是发明。 发明和创造完全不同。 一项技术上的发明是思想的产物。 各个领域的发明 诗歌上的、宗教领域的、技术上的等等 相对来讲都是十分简单的 但想要发现 正如大多数宗教曾试图发现的 什么是创造 并且理解它的本质 它的深邃、它的美丽 人就必须理解并脱离程序化。
7:06 So what is it to be free? Freedom is from something... freedom from our own misery... from our own troubles and problems... free to have an economic society... that is providing for all human beings... a society that is not too corrupt and so on. Freedom from our own bondage... from our own peculiar tendencies, opinions and judgements... in which most of us are entangled. Opinion, judgement, conclusion... is so strong with each one of us... and that prevents perception... seeing clearly what is going on... in the world both externally, outwardly... and much more so inwardly... the whole psychological complexity of one's own life. 那么什么是自由？ 解脱总是指从什么当中解脱 从我们自己的痛苦中解脱 从我们的自己烦恼和问题中解脱 自由地拥有一个经济社会 这个社会能为所有人类提供他们所需的 一个不那么腐败的社会等等。 从我们自己的束缚中解脱 从我们特殊的倾向、看法、判断中解脱 我们大多数都被这些束缚着。 看法、判断、结论 是如此牢固，对于我们每一个人来说 并且这阻止了觉察 清晰地看到正在发生着什么 在整个世界，不但包括外在的、表象的... ..更重要的是内心之中正在发生什么 看透彻一个人生命中整个心理世界的复杂性。
8:40 So what is it to be free... not freedom from something... which then becomes a reaction. Freedom from capitalism has lead to totalitarianism... with all its misery and brutality. And freedom from our own particular fears... is still in the area of a reaction... 'Oh, if one had freedom... from some peculiar urge... or tendency - one could be so great' and so on. Whereas to be free is something entirely different. The word 'free' comes from... though etymologically it is not very clearly established... free, to be free... implies in that word love... amongst other meanings. Because we do not really... comprehend in our own life what it is to love. And if love is the opposite of hate... if love is the opposite of jealousy... or if love is the opposite of attachment... every opposite has its roots in its own opposite. Are we understanding this? If one is greedy, as most of us are... and the urge is not to be greedy... that contradiction is born out of one's own greed. You understand? Is this somewhat clear? 那么什么是自由 不是从某件事物中解脱 那只是一种反应。 从资本主义中的解脱已经导致了极权主义 伴随着它的苦难和残忍。 以及从我们自身的特定恐惧中解脱 还是在一个反应的范畴内。 “喔，如果一个人能够 从某些特定的冲动中解脱 或者从特定的倾向中解脱-那他是多么了不起啊” 等等。 然而自由是一件完全不同的事。 “自由”这个词来源于 虽然从语源学上它不能被十分清晰的界定 自由，自由的 意味着爱这个字眼 这个意思与其他的含义一起。 因为我们不是真地 理解在我们自身的生命中什么是爱。 如果爱是和恨对立的 如果爱和嫉妒对立 或者爱和依赖对立 对立的每一方往往又植根于它自身的对立面。 我们都理解这点吗？ 如果一个人贪婪，就像我们大多数人一样 同时又迫切地希望不要如此贪婪 这个矛盾就是诞生于这个人的贪婪本身。 你们明白吗？ 这是否清晰点了？
11:24 Look, we are having a conversation together. The speaker is not important. The speaker really means it, there is no personal worship... in all this nonsense, all that kind of stuff is stupid. But what he said is very, very important... to be evaluated with scepticism... not accepting a thing that he says. He is not a professional, expert... but together, as two friends... examining our whole life, one's own life... which is very complex... which demands attention, care, perception, observation... and as two friends talking over their life... so this is not a lecture, or a sermon. A lecture... the meaning of that word is to inform, to instruct... we are not instructing or informing... as though one knows all about life... and the other fellow doesn't know about it. But rather together... and it is important to understand... what it means to work, to think together. Because very few of us think together about anything. You have got so many opinions, so many judgements, and so on... we never think together. We have opinions about thought... agreement or disagreement... you are not right, I am right, and so on... but the capacity, the demand... that thinking together about everything... requires a freedom... a sense of affection, care, attention. Otherwise we cannot possibly think together. Then you become a follower, a listener... to be informed, to be instructed, to obey. We are back then in the old pattern again. Whereas if we could think together... what it is to be free... not what you think is to be free or the speaker... but together find out. In that togetherness, if I may use that word... there is no you and the speaker. There is only the feeling that we are together examining... looking sceptically, sanely... into the whole question of one's own... and the existence of everything around us. 注意，我们是在一起对话。 讲话者并不重要。 讲话者非常郑重的说，这里不应该有个人崇拜 那将是毫无意义的事情，诸如此类的东西都是愚蠢的。 但他所说的是非常非常重要的 需要被怀疑的态度来评价 不要随便地接受他所说的。 他不是专业人员、专家 而是大家一起，就像两个朋友 去审视我们整个生命、我们自己的生命 生命是非常复杂的 这需要注意力、关注、觉知、观察 就像两个友人对他们的生活进行讨论 所以这不是一个讲座或者一次布道。 一个讲座 这个词的意思是告知、指导 我们不是在告知或者指导 那样就好像讲话者对生活无所不知 而另外的一个人则对它一无所知。 相反地，我们大家一起 并且重要的是，去理解 大家一起工作、思考的意义。 因为几乎没有什么人一起思考过任何事情。 你已经有了如此多的看法、判断等等 我们从来不一起思考。 我们有对思想的看法 同意或者不同意 你是不对的，我是对的，等等 但是在一起思考每件事情的 能力、渴求 需要一种自由 一种慈悲之心，以及关注、注意力。 否则我们就不可能一起思考。 于是你就成为了一个跟随者、一个聆听者 等着被告知，被教导，去顺从。 我们也就又回到了旧的模式之中。 然而如果我们能一起思考 什么是自由 不是你自己或者讲话者认为的自由 而是一起去发现。 这种在一起的情况下，如果我可以用这个字眼的话 不存在你和讲话者。 只有我们在一起探求的感觉 带有怀疑地、理智地观察 有关每个人自己的全部问题 以及存在于我们身边的每一件事情。
15:30 The word 'free', to be free has many meanings... but mostly free means to be a friend, to love... And love is not something... that thought can evolve... put together... or can be cultivated. You can cultivate a garden... you can cultivate anything... to plough, to cultivate, to grow. But love is not something that thought can cultivate. So it is very, very important to understand altogether... very deeply the nature of thought, thinking. If we really could understand that fundamentally... then we shall be able to resolve most of our problems. Because we have dozens of problems... of relationship, economic problems, social problems... problems of every kind... human beings are burdened with them. “自由”这个词，自由有着很多种含义 但自由大多数意味着成为朋友、去爱... 爱并不是 思想能够演化出的 思想能够拼凑出的 又或者能被培育出的事物。 你可以培育一个花园 你能够培育任何事物 耕作、种植、栽培。 但是爱不是思想能培育出的事物。 所以这是非常非常重要的，要全面理解 思想、想法的非常深刻的本质。 如果我们真的能从根本上理解这点 那么我们就可以解决我们大多数的问题。 因为我们有许多问题 关系问题、经济问题、社会问题 各种问题 人类被这些问题困扰着。
17:03 So not only to understand the nature of freedom from something... and to be free... completely free, not from something. And is that possible at all... when thought is operating all the time? You understand my question? So it is important, isn't it... to understand not only verbally... or through explanations... the whole movement of thought... because we live by thought... every action is based on thought... in every area, in every sector... in every field of our life both outwardly and inwardly... thought is operating. We have given thought tremendous importance. And until we unravel the whole structure and nature... the movement of thought... merely trying to be free... which is to cultivate freedom... becomes impossible. 所以不仅仅要理解从某件事物中解脱的本质 而且要理解自由 真正的自由，不是相对任何事物而言。 然而这到底可能吗 当思想一直在运转？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 这是很重要的，不是么 去理解不仅仅从字面上 又或者通过解释 了解整个思想的运作 因为我们依靠思想生存 每个举动都基于思想之上 在每个领域、每个方面 我们生活中的每个场合，外在的和内在的 思想都在运作着。 我们赋予了思想极端的重要性。 直到我们解开思想的整个结构和本质为止 思想的运作 仅仅去试图变得自由 也就是培育出自由 这变得不可能。
18:48 So we are concerned together as two friends... what is freedom... and what is it to be totally free? And can there be this... sense of wholeness in which there is freedom, free? See what I am saying? So we are going to go into it. 那么我们作为两位友人共同来关注 什么是解脱 以及什么是完全的自由？ 在自由存在的地方 这种完整的感觉是不是才可能存在？ 知道我在说什么了么？ 我们将要探讨它。
19:26 As long as we are programmed - Catholic, Protestant... and the many thousand divisions of Protestantism, or Hinduism... or the Islamic world, and the Buddhist world... we are being programmed... and as long as we are being programmed... our whole brain has been programmed for thousands of years... there can be no sense of total freedom. Is this clear? Are we together in this? So is it possible to be free? Or must we everlastingly be condemned... to be programmed like a computer? Our brain functions... not that the speaker is a professional, brain specialist... but he has observed many, many... in the course of sixty, seventy years... how people's brains work, observing them. And also observing one's own brain in operation. It has become so mechanical, repetitive... its very accumulation of knowledge is limiting it. I wonder if you understand this? When one has a great deal of knowledge... about various disciplines... like science, being an expert in surgery... medicine, telecommunication and so on... our brain actually becomes very small... it can expand along a particular line... but that expansion still is limited. I hope you are getting all this. Now, is it possible to be... totally free from all this? Otherwise we will never know what it is to be creative... something totally unthought-of, totally new. 'There is nothing new on the earth'... but if we accept that slogan... then we will never find out what it is to be creative. 只要我们的大脑是程序化的- 天主教徒、新教徒 以及几千种界分新教、印度教 或者伊斯兰世界，以及佛教世界 我们就是被程序化了 并且只要我们是程序化的 我们的整个大脑都已经被程序化几千年了 那么就不可能有完全的自由的存在。 这点清楚了么？我们一起认识到了么？ 那么自由可不可能？ 或者我们必须被永久地惩罚着 像一台计算机一样被程序化？ 我们大脑的功能 我并非一个专业人员、一个脑科专家 而是讲话者观察了很多很多 在60、70年之间 人们的大脑如何工作，观察它们。 以及同样观察他自己大脑的运转。 头脑的运作已经变得如此呆板、重复 正是知识的积累在局限着它。 我不知道你们是否理解这点？ 当一个人拥有大量的知识 有关各种不同学科 譬如科学，成为外科手术专家 药物、电信等等 我们的大脑事实上变得非常狭隘 它沿着一条特定的道路延伸 但是这种延展依然是受限的。 我希望你们都明白这些。 那么，是否可能 从这些之中完全解脱？ 否则我们就永远不能明白什么是有创造性的 一件思想完全无法企及的、崭新的事物。 “这世上并没有什么新事物” 但是如果我们承认这个口号 那么我们将永远不能发现什么是具有创造性的...
22:37 So to understand this programming... and why we accept it, one must go... not only as we went yesterday morning... into the whole desire to be secure. We went into that very carefully yesterday morning... we won't go in it again. But also we went into the nature of thought many, many times... but most of us really haven't seen the depth of it... the quality of thought... how limited thought is... though it has done the most extraordinary things... in the technological world, and also in the psychological world. But whatever it has done it is still very limited... because as we pointed out yesterday... there is always the 'more'... not only in the technological world... but also inwardly, the 'more', the 'better'. The 'more', the 'better' is measurement... and where there is measurement there is limitation. This has been one of the problems of religious people. We have gone into this, that is... the Greeks, the ancient Greeks... were concerned with measurement... otherwise we wouldn't have this... extraordinary technology in the western world... because the western world has its roots in the ancient Greeks. And in India, the ancient people said... measurement in any form is illusion. You cannot possibly measure the immeasurable. Do you understand? So there are two contradictory statements... technologically you must have measurement... and psychologically also we have accepted there is measurement... as the 'more', the 'better', the 'becoming'. Whereas the ancient Hindus said... 'every form of measurement is limitation.' And they said that and forgot all about it. But probably they never perhaps... the speaker does not know the full extent... of their saying because he doesn't read books... Measurement implies thought. Thought is based on knowledge, experience and memory... and knowledge is always limited now and in the future. So thought is always limited. It can imagine the immeasurable... it can invent all the gods on the earth... all the rituals, all that business... which is extraordinarily unreal. 所以要理解这种程序化 以及为什么我们接受它，我们就必须 不仅仅像我们昨天上午那样 讨论想要得到安全的整个欲望。 我们昨天上午非常小心地讨论那些 我们不会再一次讨论它。 而且我们已经讨论过思想的本质很多很多次了 但我们的大多数真的没有看到它的深度 思想的品质 思想如何被限制 虽然它已经做了最不同寻常的事 在科技的领域，以及同样在心理的领域。 但无论它做了什么它还是非常局限的 因为正如我们昨天所指出的那样 总会存在着“更多” 不仅仅在科技的领域 内心也同样，存在着“更多”、“更好”。 “更多”、“更好”是种衡量 并且哪里有衡量哪里就有局限。 这已经成为宗教人士的问题之一。 我们已经讨论过这点，也就是 希腊人、古老的希腊人民 非常关注衡量的问题 否则我们今天不会有 如此非比寻常的科技存在于西方世界 因为西方世界起源于古希腊人。 在印度，古人说 任何形式的衡量都是幻觉。 你不可能衡量不可衡量的事物。 你们明白吗？ 所以存在两个相互矛盾的陈述 技术上，你必须有衡量 心理上，我们也同样接受了衡量的存在 像“更多”、“更好”、“变成”。 然而古印度人说 “任何形式的衡量都是局限。” 他们曾经这样说但是却已经完全忘记了。 但是也许他们从来都不曾忘记 讲话者并不知道这句话的所有延伸内容 因为他不读书... 衡量意味着思想。 思想是基于知识、经验和记忆的 而知识在现在和未来一直都是有限的。 所以思想总是受限的。 它能够想象不可衡量的事物 可以发明世上的上帝 所有的仪式、所有的事务 这些都是非常不真实的。
26:34 So thought can never be free... or thought can never bring about... a sense of being totally free. Right? I wonder if you understand this. Because thought itself is limited... therefore whatever it does will still be limited. And thought is driven by desire, isn't it? Right? So we have to enquire into the nature and the structure of desire. The word 'desire' means longing for... in expression, which is wanting something more. The meaning of that word is that... longing for, not having - wanting. Right? So we are going together to understand what is desire. 所以思想永远不可能自由 或者思想永远不能带来 一种完全自由的感觉。 对不对？ 我不知道你们是否明白这点。 因为思想自身就是受限的 因此不论它做什么仍将是受限的。 并且思想被欲望驱使，不是么？ 对不对？ 那么我们需要探究欲望的本质和结构。 “欲望”这词意味着渴求 在表述上，是想要更多一些。 这个词的意思是 渴求，不是已经拥有- 是想要。 对不对？ 那么我们将要一起理解什么是欲望。
28:06 I do not know if you have observed, not only yourself... but all the people around you... the priests, the hierarchy of priests... the popes through history, and all the monks of the world... and all the human beings in the world... being dissatisfied with what they are... they want something more... longing for something more. Aren't you all longing for something more? Aren't we all driven by desire... to be successful, to have money... to have position, famous... you know all that business. We are full of desires. And what is the relationship... between desire and thought? Right? Please ask this question... as two friends talking together... the speaker is saying to the friend, look at it... he is asking, what is the relationship between the two... desire and thought. Why thought in the religious areas... has insisted on suppression of desire. You understand? The monks throughout the world have said... you must have no desire, suppress it. Or identify that desire with something you call god... your saviour, you know, symbols. Right? So desire has an extraordinary importance in our life. And we are not trying to suppress it, or transcend it... or identify that desire with something nobler, symbolic... significant, all that stuff, we can wipe out all that. 我不知道你们是否观察过，不仅仅你自己 还有你周围的人 那些神父、神父等级统治 历史上的教皇们、以及世上所有的僧侣 还有世上所有的人类 都不满足于他们现在的样子 他们想要更多的东西 渴求更多的东西。 你们不都是渴求更多的东西么？ 我们不都是被欲望驱使么 为了变得成功，为了拥有财富 为了获得地位、名誉 你知道所有这些事。 我们充满了欲望。 那这之间的关系是什么 欲望和思想之间？ 是不是？ 请问下这个问题 正如两位朋友在一起讨论 讲话者跟他的朋友说看着它 他在问，这两者之间的关系是什么 欲望和思想之间。 为什么在宗教领域人们的想法 一直都坚持应该压制欲望。 你们明白吗？ 全世界的僧侣都说过 你必须没有欲望，压制它。 或者将这些欲望与你们称作上帝的东西认同在一起 与你们的救世主，你知道的，与那些象征性的标志认同在一起。 对不对？ 所以欲望在我们的生命中异乎寻常的重要。 我们不是要压制它或者超越它 又或者为这些欲望找出一些更高尚的象征意义 更重要的意义，所有这些东西，我们都要一起扫除。
31:00 So we are now trying to understand the nature of desire. You might have heard the speaker explain it before... but forget what he has said before. We are now afresh... anew, examining this thing. And to examine one must be not only... free from personal worship... but also there must be freedom from... the fear of not being without desire. You understand? There must be a sense of... perception in which there is no distortion... no motive, but to observe very closely... the whole movement of desire. Can we go on with that? 我们现在正试图理解欲望的本质。 你之前可能已经听过讲话者对它的解释 但是请忘记他之前所说过的。 我现在重新 全新地，再探究这件事。 为了探究，你必须不仅仅 摆脱个人崇拜 也不要因为 心中仍存有欲望而感到恐惧。 你们明白吗？ 必须要有一种 察觉，这其中没有扭曲 没有动机，而是非常密切地观察 欲望的整体运作。 我们可以继续这个问题吗？
32:34 We are sitting under a tree, under several trees... and there is the blue sky through the leaves... and the distant mountains, hills... the dappled light on all of us... and to see all this clearly... and to see the beauty of all that... and what is the relationship of beauty to desire? You understand my question? So we must also enquire what is beauty? Is it all right? 我们正坐在一棵树下，几棵树下 透过树叶还有蓝天 以及遥远的山脉、丘陵 我们身上斑驳的阳光 清晰地看到这些 看到所有的美丽 那么美和欲望之间的关系是什么？ 你们明白我的问题吗？ 所以我们必须问什么是美？ 这没问题吧？
33:30 What is beauty? We will wait for the airplane. We'll wait for the airplane to go by. We are asking, what is beauty? A beautiful poem, a beautiful picture... a beautiful tree in a solitary field... the beauty of a wave... the quiet beauty of a blue sea... and the beauty of great mountains... the immensity, their dignity... their immovability... and the line against the blue sky, snow capped. And all the museums in the world... with their ancient sculptures... modern paintings... and the classic statuary... most of us have seen all these... and we say when we look at them... how extraordinarily beautiful they are. If you have seen the Parthenon in Greece for the first time... you almost go on your knees to the beauty of the structure. And when you see a beautiful man, or a woman, or a child specially... and you are breathless for a moment... with all the beauty of this world. And does beauty lie in the perceiver? You understand my question? Is beauty a matter of instruction... being well informed about all the paintings in the world... who painted it from modern Picasso... to the ancient Masaccio and so on... to be well informed, to talk about it... you know, play with it, is all that beauty? 什么是美？ 我们等飞机过去。 我们等待飞机经过。 我们在问，什么是美？ 一首美丽的诗歌，一幅美丽的画卷 一颗美丽的树伫立在孤独的土地 波浪的美丽 蓝色海洋的寂静之美 雄伟山脉的美丽 它们的宽广、庄严 它们的屹立不动 蓝天下的轮廓、积雪的山顶。 世界上所有的博物馆 都拥有它们古老的雕刻 现代的绘画 以及古典的雕像 我们大多数都看到过这些 并且我们看到他们时会说 他们是如此超乎寻常的美丽。 如果你第一次看到希腊的帕提农神殿 你几乎会为这构造之美而下跪。 当你看到一个美丽的男人、或者女人，特别是一个孩子 你有一刻不知不觉屏住呼吸 因为这世上所有的美丽。 美是否存在于感知美的这个人之中？ 你们明白我的问题吗？ 美是可以教授的吗 了然于心世界上所有著名的画作 画作的作者是谁，从现代的毕加索 到古老的马萨乔等等 对那些了如指掌，并且谈论它 你知道，以此消遣，这些都是美么？
36:31 So what is beauty? When do you perceive beauty? In the face, in the mountain... in a tree, or the slip of a moon... when the first moon appears... just a sliver... and the quietness of a still evening... when do you perceive all this? And the word 'beauty'... seems to suffice for most of us, just to say... 'How beautiful it is', and go on the next thing. You see marvellous paintings of Leonardo da Vinci... or Michelangelo and so on... and then go off and have tea. Right? This is what we generally do. We never really go into the question of what is beauty. And when do you perceive this sense of immense... immensity and the truth of beauty? When you see a great mountain... with the deep valleys and the snow... against the blue sky... aren't you for a second... by the dignity and the majesty of the mountain... for a second you have forgotten all your problems... you have forgotten all your misery... confusion, sorrows, and all the rest of it... and that great immensity of a snow-capped peak... drives you away... drives your self away. Right? Haven't you noticed all this? 那么美是什么？ 你什么时候感受到美？ 在面孔中，在山脉中 在树上，或者一牙弯月 当初月升起 不过细细一牙 宁静之夜的寂静 你什么时候感觉到所有这些？ “美”这个词 似乎我们大多数人仅仅满足于，称赞一句 “它是多么美”，然后就去做下一件事了。 你看到美妙绝伦的绘画，莱昂纳多.达芬奇的 米开朗基罗的等等 然后离开去喝茶。 对么？ 这就是我们常做的事。 我们从未真地考虑什么是美这个问题。 你何时感受到这种无限的感觉 美的无限和真相？ 当你看到一座雄伟山峰 以及深深的峡谷和雪 在蓝天的衬托下 你有没有在那一刻 由于山脉的庄严和壮丽 那一刻你忘记了你所有的问题 你忘记了你所有的痛苦 迷惑、悲伤，以及所有这些 那被雪覆盖的山峰的无限宽广 驱开了那个你 赶走了你的自我。 对不对？你们注意到过这些么？
39:03 So beauty can only exist when the self is not. You understand? When the mind, when the brain is not chattering... caught in a net of words... when it is really utterly quiet... when there is total absence of the 'me'... the self, the ego, the persona... then you really see the extraordinary sense of beauty... of the world, of the tree and the sky. And what is the relationship of that... sense of extraordinary beauty to desire? We want to capture that beauty... we want to hold it, to live with it... to have this sense of utter... to be totally free from all the turmoil... the noise and the vulgarity of the world. 所以美只有在没有自我的时候才存在。 你们明白吗？ 当思想，当头脑不再喋喋不休 被一堆词汇束缚 当它真的完全的安静 当完全不存在‘我’的时候 自己、自我、角色 之后你就真地感觉到非凡的美 世界的美，树和天空的美。 这之间的关系是什么 那种极其之美的感觉和欲望之间的关系？ 我们想要捕获那份美丽 我们希望抓住它，和它一起生活 拥有这种彻底的感觉 完全摆脱所有的混乱 世界的噪声和粗俗。
40:29 So we must enquire rationally... clearly and sanely... what is desire? Desire has built a great many things in life... great architecture... and also created wars and destruction and so on. So we must really understand this tremendous urge... that human beings have... of which we are slaves. When you sit under these trees... and look at the beauty of the light... although it is somewhat hot unfortunately... you have a great sense of sensation, don't you... your senses are awake if you are alert... your senses respond to all this. So the sensation of these trees, the light... the hills, the quietness, awakens sensation. When you see the Pacific as you go along the highway... can you look at all that water with all your senses? Have you ever done it... with all your senses fully alive, alert? Then in that total sensation... with all your senses, not partially... one operating more than the other, but the whole organism... the nerves, the whole entity of a human... when you give such tremendous attention... with your sensation... have you noticed there is no self at all... there is no me at all? We will come to that presently. 所以我们必须理智地问 清晰地、理智地问 什么是欲望？ 欲望已经在生活中建造了很多的事物 了不起的建筑 并创造了战争和毁灭等等。 所以我们必须真地理解这种巨大的冲动 这种人类拥有的 奴役着我们的冲动。 当你们坐在这些树下 看到阳光的美丽 尽管不幸的是天气有点儿热 你有一种强烈的知觉，不是么 如果你够警觉，你的感官就会唤醒 你的感官对所有这些都做出回应。 所以对这些树，对阳光的感知 群山，宁静，唤醒了知觉。 当你沿着高速公路看到太平洋的时候 你能用你全部的知觉去看所有那些水么？ 你曾这样做过么 用你全部的感官，完全活跃的、灵敏的？ 在那种完全的感知当中 用你所有的感官，不是部分的 一部分运转超过其他部分，而是整个机体 所有神经，整个人的存在 当你给予如此巨大的注意力时 用你的感知 你有没有注意到完全没有了自我 根本没有了自己的存在？ 我们一会儿将探讨这点。
43:13 So we live with sensations. It is fairly obvious. These sensations are taken over by thought... and given a shape, or an image. Right? To make it very simple... you see something beautiful in a shop... you go inside... touch it, contact with it... feel the quality of the silk, or the material... there is sensation. Right? Then thought comes along and says... 'How marvellous if I had it... how nice it would look on me.' Right? When thought creates the image out of the sensation... desire is born. Right, have you got it? When thought builds... or makes out of that sensation an image... which is having that beautiful shirt... or that robe, or that car... or that house, or the refrigerator, whatever you want... then at that moment desire is born. This is so clear and obvious if one perceives... every second, the whole movement of it... which requires great attention, not to miss a thing. 我们随时随地都拥有感知。 这是显而易见的。 这些感知被思想替代了 然后给出了一个形状或者一个形象。 对不对？ 举个非常简单的例子 你看到商店里某件漂亮的东西 然后你进去 触摸它，接触它 感受丝绸的质地，或者材料 这是感知。对么？ 然后思想出现并说 “如果我得到它，将多么棒 我穿上它，将是多么漂亮。”对不对？ 当思想籍着感知创造了形象 欲望就诞生了。 对么，你们明白了么？ 当思想通过感知 建立或者制造出一个形象 也就是拥有那件漂亮的衬衫 或者那件长袍，又或者那辆车 那栋房子、那个冰箱，任何你想要得到的东西 那一刻欲望就诞生了。 这是如此清晰和显而易见，如果你时刻察觉 每一秒钟都觉察，欲望的全部运作过程 这需要巨大的注意力，不错过任何一件事。
45:24 So the question is... giving shape to that sensation by thought... as an image, as a picture, a pleasure... at that second desire is born. Now the question is... can there be a wide interval... between sensation and thought... creating an image of that sensation? You understand? An interval. That requires tremendous attention... and where there is attention there is discipline. You understand? Oh, come on, sirs, somebody. Are you all asleep or what? This is important because... as we live in conflict perpetually... to understand conflict is to see the fact... and the conclusion of the fact. You understand? The fact, and what we make of that fact. What we make of that fact is an abstraction called idea, or ideal... and between the fact and the ideal there is always conflict... Right? Move, sir. And if we see where there is sensation... which is natural... which is healthy, clear, unless one is totally paralysed... and thought giving shape to that sensation, the image it represents... if these two can be kept apart for a while... to keep them apart requires great attention. Right? And so there is never a suppression of desire... but watchfulness of desire. I wonder if you understand this. Because if you suppress it, it then becomes a conflict. If you say, 'I will transcend desire'... that becomes also a means of conflict. Whereas if there is great attention and watchfulness... how thought shapes sensation... then that attention, that watchfulness... has its own intelligence... and when it is necessary... you go into the shop and buy it, and get on with it... but not make conflict about it. You understand? If you understand some of it at least... because this is really important to understand all this... whether man can live without conflict on this beautiful earth. We live with conflict all the days of our lives... from the most ancient of times until now... it is our heritage, to live with conflict... not only externally as war and so on... but also much more inwardly... conflict with each other... conflict in our relationship with each other... intimate and so on... whether this conflict can ever end... so that the brain is totally free. And that is why it is important to understand the nature of desire... and the nature of this sense of immense beauty of life... of this earth. 于是问题就是 当思想对那种感知给予了一种形状 使之成为一个形象、一幅画面、一种快乐 那一刻欲望诞生了。 现在的问题是 这之间是否存在一个明显的间隔 在感知和思想之间 在思想创造出感知的一个具象之前？ 你们明白吗？一个间隔。 这需要巨大的注意力 并且哪里有注意力哪里就有纪律。 你们明白吗？喔，振作些，先生们，某些人。 你们都睡着了吗？还是怎么了？ 这是非常重要的，因为 我们永远生活在冲突之中 要理解冲突就要看到事实 以及事实的结论。 你们明白吗？ 事实，以及我们从这个事实当中得出了什么。 我们从那个事实中获得的是一个叫做想法或者理想的抽象概念 而在事实和理想之间永远存在着冲突... 对不对？ 想一想，先生们。 并且如果我们看到当感知出现 感知是自然的 是健康的、清晰的，除非你已经完全瘫痪掉了 思想就会对那种感知给出一种形状，描述感知的形象 如果这两件事情可以被分开一会儿 要分开它们需要巨大的注意力。 对不对？ 所以永远不要有对欲望的压制 而是要有对欲望警觉的观察。 我不知道你们明白这点么。 因为你如果压制它，它就会变成冲突。 如果你说，“我要超越欲望” 那同样也会变成一种冲突。 然而如果存在巨大的注意力和警觉 思想怎么把感知形象化 之后注意力、警觉 就会有它自己的智慧 当必要的时候 你进到商店并购买它，之后穿上它 但不会因它引起冲突。你们明白么？ 如果你至少明白其中的一部分 因为这对于理解所有这些真的很重要 人类是否能够没有冲突地生活在这美丽的地球上。 我们生活在每天充满冲突的日子当中 从最久远的时代到今天为止 生活在冲突之中是我们的传统 不仅仅是外在的，比如战争等等 而且更多的是内心的 我们彼此起冲突 在与彼此的关系中起冲突 与亲密的人等等 冲突是否能够停止 这样大脑才会是完全自由的。 这就是为什么理解欲望的本质是很重要的 以及理解这种无限的生活之美，这种感觉的本质 这个地球的无限之美。
50:29 Then we also should go into the question of what is love. Don't let's become sentimental about it... or romantic... but when we say, 'I love you'... what do we mean by that? When a man, or a woman says to the man, or the man says to the woman... or friends say to each other, 'I love you', what does that mean? There is the love of a book, love of a poem... love of sports... love of sex... I love to be famous. We use this word so easily. But we have never, apparently... gone into the full meaning of it... what is it to love? Love, apparently, has become another means of conflict... one loves one's wife... and there is conflict, quarrels, jealousy... antagonism, divorce, and all the pain of that relationship... and the pleasure of it too. So we should go into this question very carefully... because that may the solution of all our problems... it may be the one thing... when we understand... whether it is in the brain or outside the brain. Do you understand my question? Whether love is contained in the brain as thought... anxiety, pain, depression, fear, loneliness... the whole content of our consciousness. Is love part of that consciousness? You understand? Oh, come on, sirs. Or it is outside, totally... outside consciousness, outside the brain. Probably we have never asked these questions even. One hopes you will not mind asking these questions. 接着我们同样要进入什么是爱的问题。 我们不要为此变得伤感 或者浪漫 当我们说，“我爱你” 我们这么说是什么意思？ 当一个男人，或者女人对男人说，或者男人对女人说 或者朋友对彼此说，“我爱你”，这意味着什么？ 有对一本书的喜爱，对一首诗的喜爱 热爱运动 喜欢性 我喜欢变得知名。 我们太轻易的用这个词了。 但很明显，我们从未 理解它的全部意义 爱是什么？ 爱，很明显，已经变成另一种意义上的冲突 一个人爱他的妻子 这就有了冲突、争吵、嫉妒 对抗、离婚，以及所有因关系带来的痛苦 关系带来的快乐也同样。 所以我们应该谨慎地讨论这个问题 因为那也许能够解决我们所有的问题 它可能就是关键 当我们明白 爱是在头脑之内还是在头脑之外。 你们明白我的问题吗？ 爱是否和思想一样包含在大脑之中 焦虑、痛苦、沮丧、恐惧、孤独 我们的意识的全部内容。 爱是意识的一部分么？你们明白么？ 喔，注意了，先生们。 又或者它是在意识之外的，完全 在意识之外的，在大脑之外。 我们可能甚至从未问过这样的问题。 讲话者希望你们不要介意他问这些问题。
53:39 So what is love as we know it? Love brings a great deal of conflict in our life... a great deal of pleasure... a great deal of anxiety, fear... jealousy, envy. Don't you know all this? So is desire love? Is pleasure love? Is love in the realm or in the field of thought? And apparently for most of us it is in that field... conflict, pain, anxiety, and thought. And to understand what love is... not understand, you know... have the depth of it, the greatness of it... the flame of it, the beauty of it... how can there be jealousy... how can there be ambition... aggression, violence? And can one be free completely of all these things? Please do ask this question. Where there is love, then do what you will, it will be right action... it will never bring conflict in one's life. 那么我们都知道的爱究竟是什么？ 爱给我们的生活带来了大量的冲突 大量的欢愉 大量的焦虑、恐惧 嫉妒、羡慕。 你们都知道这些，不是么？ 那么欲望是不是爱？ 欢愉是不是爱？ 爱是否在思想的范畴之内？ 很明显对于我们大多数而言它在其中 冲突、痛苦、焦虑，以及思想。 要想明白什么是爱 不是理解，你知道 拥有爱的深刻，它的伟大 它的热情、它的美 怎么可能还会有嫉妒 怎么会有野心 侵犯和暴力？ 一个人能否完全摆脱所有这些事情？ 请问问这个问题。 当爱存在时，做你想做的事，那都将是正确的行为 它永远不会给一个人的生活带来冲突。
55:53 So it is important to see... that jealousy, antagonism, conflict... and all the pain of relationship... has no place in love, where there is love. And can one be free of all that... not tomorrow, now? You understand my question? Because as we pointed out yesterday... time which is the past... the present and the future... all time is contained in the now. We went into it carefully yesterday. And if we say, 'I will cultivate love', or 'I will try and get rid... of my jealousy' and so on... then when you are trying to be free, trying... then you will never be free. Right? I wonder if you understand this? When you say, 'I will do my best', which is so silly. Which means that one has really not... fully perceived the truth... that all time, the past, the present and the future... are in the now, now, in the present actually. Because if you don't do something now... it will be continued tomorrow... the future is in the now. You understand this? Come on! 所以看到这点很重要 那就是嫉妒、敌对、冲突 以及所有关系中的痛苦 在爱中不存在，当爱存在时。 一个人可以摆脱这些么？ 不是明天，而是现在？ 你们明白我的问题吗？ 因为就像我们昨天指出的那样 时间即过去 即现在和未来 所有时间包含在当下这一刻。 我们昨天细致地讨论了这个问题。 如果我说，“我要培育爱”，或者“我想要试着摆脱 我的嫉妒”等等 那么当你试图摆脱的时候，试图 那么你就永远不能自由。 对不对？ 我不知道你们明白了没有？ 当你说，“我要做到最好”，这是如此愚蠢。 这意味着一个人还没有真地 完全察觉到真相 那就是所有时间，过去、现在和未来 都在此刻，现在，事实上就在当下。 因为如果你现在不去做 明天也还会是如此 未来就是现在。你们明白这点吗？注意了！
57:57 So can one put aside completely... all the causes of conflict... which is the self, the 'me'... so that there is this sense of flame... the greatness of beauty, of love? 那么一个人能不能完全抛开 所有冲突的原因 也就是自我，这个“我” 从而拥有了热情 美和爱的伟大?
58:20 And also we should discuss, if time allows... we should talk over together, what is religion? All the organised religions of the world with their rituals... and their fancy dresses and so on... with their symbols, with their making crosses over everything... is all that religion? The root meaning of that word, etymologically, is not clear... it has been said, religion is a binding... is a bondage between... a bond between man and god, and so on. So when you examine... and to examine there must be scepticism... the questioning of one's faith, one's belief... otherwise you can't possibly examine... find out the truth about religion. Most of us live in illusions about religions. We never see that thought has been responsible for all the rituals... their dresses and their gods, and their ceremonies, their incense... the whole works are put together by thought. 如果时间允许,我们同样要讨论 我们应该一起讨论,什么是宗教？ 世界上所有有组织的宗教和它们的仪式 以及他们新奇的服装等等 还有它们的象征物，他们对每件事都画十字 这些就是宗教了么？ 这个词的根本意思，从语源学上讲，是不清晰的 曾经有这种说法，宗教是一种捆绑 是一种束缚 是人和上帝之间的连接，等等。 所以当你探究 要想探究就必须有怀疑精神 对一个人信仰、信念的质疑 否则你就不可能探究 找到有关宗教的真相。 我们大多数人生活在有关宗教的幻觉之中。 我们从未认清宗教仪式来自我们的思想 他们的服装和他们的上帝，以及他们的典礼、香薰 所有这些杰作都由思想制造。
1:00:20 So what is religion? And the thing is important to find out... because man has always from the beginning of time... has always enquired into this... is there something more... than the mere physical world with all its turmoil... with all its complexities, struggle, pain, and so on... is there something far beyond all this? You are asking that question. And somebody comes along and says, 'I know about it... I will tell you all about it'... that's how it began... from the ancient Sumerians... from the ancient Eqyptians, and the ancient Hindus... they said, we will tell you. They became the priests... the original people who wrote... read, and so on. They became the interpreters of that to man... and it became a good profession, like any other profession. And that has continued from time immemorial. 那么什么是宗教？ 找出答案是很重要的... 因为从一开始，人类就一直 一直探究这个问题 还有没有更多的什么 在纯粹的物理世界之外，这个混乱的物理世界 它所有的繁杂、争斗、痛苦等等 是否存在超越所有这些的东西？ 你正在问这个问题。 然后有人过来说，“我对此了解 我将告诉你有关它的所有事情” 这就是人类的宗教如何产生的 从古老的苏美尔人 从古埃及人，以及古印度人 他们说，我们会告诉你的。 他们变成了传教士 最初写经 诵经等等的人。 他们变成了对人们诠释一切的人 并且这变为了一种不错的职业，就像其他任何职业一样。 自古以来，这就一直在延续着。
1:02:09 Now to find out what is the religious mind... what is the truth of religion... one must be free from all authority, of all belief, faith. Not belong to a thing. Right? There must be a sense of totally being free. 现在想要发现什么是宗教心灵 什么是宗教的真相 一个人必须摆脱所有权威、所有信仰、信念。 不从属于任何一件事物。 对不对？ 必须有一种完全自由的感觉。
1:02:52 Then one can enquire... or observe, or perceive what is truth... not the truth or the reality. Let's differentiate the two... gosh, a lot of things to explain, aren't there? I don't know why one has to explain all this. I am afraid you are all too learned... you have too much knowledge... have read too many books, listened to professors and all the rest of it. What is reality? Reality is that you are sitting there... and the speaker is up here. The reality is the trees... the reality is nature... the birds, the ocean, the whales... the beauty of those enormous creatures... in the deep depth of the sea. Reality is what is both externally and inwardly. Right? Nature is a reality, tiger is a reality... and also reality is inwardly the illusion... that you have created and hold on to that... the symbol, the picture, the idealised picture... however illusory you hold on to that, that is a reality. Right? So reality and truth are two different things. Truth is not a matter of conjecture... of speculation, of idealisation. It is not the invention of thought. And to find that truth - not to find - for that truth to exist... it has been said you must meditate... to find that eternal thing... which is beyond all measure and beyond all thought... beyond all words - you must meditate. And they said too... in order to meditate you must follow a system, a method... and we will tell you what the method and the system is. Right? The gurus have played upon this theme endlessly, coining money. Right? 然后一个人可以探究 或者观察，或者感知什么是真相 不是事实或现实。 让我们区分这两个 天啊，好多事情要解释，不是么？ 我不知道我为什么要解释所有这些。 我恐怕你们都太博学了 你们有着太多知识 读过太多书，聆听过众多专家以及等等这些。 什么是现实？ 现实是你们正坐在那里 讲话者坐在这里。 现实是这些树 现实是自然 鸟群、海洋、鲸鱼 那些众多生物的美丽 在海洋的深处。 现实是外在和内在的结合。 对么？ 自然是现实，时间是现实 内心的幻觉也是现实 你创造并抱持的幻觉 象征物、景象、理想化的景象 无论这一切是多么的虚幻，你仍然紧抓不放，这就是现实。 对么？ 所以现实和真相是两件不同的事情。 真相不是推测 臆想、设想。 它不是思想的发明。 要找到真相 - 不是去找 - 因为真相本就存在 有人会说，你必须冥想 才能够找到那永恒的事物 它是无法衡量的，它是思想无法企及的 它超越所有的言辞 -你必须冥想。 他们也说过 想要冥想，你必须遵循一个体系、一种方法 我们会告诉你这方法和体系是什么。 对不对？ 那些上师们不停地运用这个主题，谋取暴利。 对不对？
1:06:27 So we are going to enquire not how to meditate... which seems so silly to ask... but what is meditation. Why is it necessary to meditate at all? Meditation, the meaning of that word is... to ponder over, think over. But also it has a deeper meaning: measure... to meditate also means to measure. Now meditation is... being free completely from measurement... measurement being comparison... I am this, I will be that - to compare. To live a daily life without a shadow of comparison. Have you ever done it? No. To live like that... never having an example, never a goal... never an end... never having the future... which is comparison - I am this, I will be that... to live without becoming, which is comparison. When you go to a museum you compare... you compare between two materials... one cloth is better than the other cloth... you compare one car with another car. That's natural, that's necessary. But to have this sense of inward comparison all the time... to be completely free of that. That is part of meditation. So the brain then is free from all sense of comparison... except where it is necessary, physically... car, shirt, clothes, and so on. Is this possible? Can one live that way, never comparing? See what happens if you don't compare. There is the end of conflict also. Right? 我们将要探究的不是如何冥想 而是要问一个看起来很愚蠢的问题 究竟什么是冥想。 究竟冥想为什么是必要的？ 冥想，这个词的意思是 考虑、沉思。 但它还有更深的意义： 衡量 冥想同样意味着衡量。 现在所说的冥想是 完全摆脱衡量的 衡量就是比较 我是这样，我想成为那样- 去比较。 每天都要过一种完全不带有一丝一毫比较的阴影的生活。 你们曾这样做过么？没有。 像这样生活 永远没有榜样、没有一个目标 没有一个终结 不期盼未来 未来就是比较 -我是这样，我要那样 活着而不考虑要变成什么，变成就是比较。 当你去展览馆你比较 你比较两种材料 一件布料比另一件好 你比较一辆车和另一辆车。 这是自然的，这是必要的。 但心中一直存在这种比较的感觉 一定要从心理的比较中解脱出来。 这就是冥想的一部分。 之后大脑就摆脱了所有比较的感觉 除了必要的时候，物理上 汽车、衬衫、衣服等等。 这可能吗？ 一个人能以这种方式生活么，从来不比较？ 观察一下如果你停止比较会发生什么。 冲突也就停止了。对不对？
1:09:49 So meditation is not a practice... not a system, not repeating a mantra... you know that word? You know the meaning of that word? No. But you repeat it. This is a most marvellous country! The meaning of that word, mantra, means... ponder over, not becoming. And also it means end all self-centred activity. The root meaning of that word in Sanskrit... ponder, consider... not becoming, the whole question of becoming. And also it means put away... altogether all self-centred activity. And if you are given some words, and you repeat it... you are playing just a game. It is not worth it. And the speaker is not telling you not to do it. If you want to do it you will do it, if it pleases you... but it has no meaning, your repetition... Ave Maria by the dozen... or your particular mantra. 所以冥想不是一种训练 不是一个体系，不是重复一个唱颂 你理解那些唱颂么？ 你知道它们的意思吗？ 你不知道。但你重复它。 这是一个最神奇的国度！ 那个词的含义，唱颂的意思是 沉思，不去变成。 它也意味着结束所有以自我为中心的活动。 这个词在梵文里的本意是 沉思、思考 不是变成，整个有关变成的问题。 它也意味着抛开 所有自我中心的活动。 如果你被告知一些词语，接着你重复它 那你只是在玩一个游戏。 那是毫无价值的。 讲话者不是在告诉你们不要这么做。 如果你想要这么做，你就去做，如果它令你愉悦的话 但这毫无意义，你的这些重复 许多遍万福玛利亚 或者你特别的唱颂。
1:11:49 So meditation means to be free from fear... from all sense of conflict... which we have been talking about... and also much more seriously... the ending of thought. Whether thought, which is time, has a stop. You understand? And so because... if there isn't a sense of being totally free... the brain then becomes limited... and all its activity will be limited... and the limitless, the timeless can never exist. 冥想意味着摆脱恐惧 摆脱所有的冲突感 我们已经讨论过 同时更为严肃的是 思想的终结。 思想，也就是时间是否可以停止。 你们明白吗？ 因为 如果没有一种完全自由的感觉 大脑就会变得局限 它所有的活动也将是受限的 那无限的、超越时间的就永远不会存在。
1:13:02 So we are asking: can thought, which is of time... which is time itself, can that stop? Probably you have never asked this question. Not you stop it by will... of course, that's silly... you cannot stop by will thought. Will is the essence of desire... and desire we explained earlier. So is there thought... coming of its own accord to an end? Thought must be used naturally when you drive a car... when you go from here to your house, when you cook... when you wash dishes, and so on... thought must be there. What is the necessity of thought in the psychological world at all? If thought is really understood... all its activities... its beginnings, its origin. Its origin is experience, knowledge... memory stored in the brain... and the reaction to that memory is thought. All this process is limited... because knowledge in the future or now is limited. When you see, perceive actually the limitation of thought... not the imagination of it... not the idea of ending... but actually see for yourself... that thought, whatever it does... both in the technological world and in the psychological world... will always be limited. When you see the absolute fact of that... and the necessity of thought in a certain area... when you give your total attention to that... then you will find out for yourself thought can end. If you say, 'What then?', then you are lost. Then if you say, 'What is there if thought ends... is there something more?' You follow how our brain works? That is, I will see that thought can end... if you give me something in return. Right? If thought can end you will find out... there will be something totally different. And this is meditation. Not control, not control thought... because the controller is part of thought. Right? So the controller is playing a game. So there is always the controller trying to control thought. But the controller who is also thought is the controlled. There is no division between the controller and the controlled... right through life, if one can understand this profoundly... you will eliminate altogether conflict. Therefore the brain, which has been conditioned, narrowed down... has lost its tremendous vitality... its great immense capacity. If one is active that way... as you get older and older... it becomes much more active... not that you get senile. Do you understand all this? 所以我们在问：思想，来自于时间的思想 思想其实就是时间，它能否停止？ 可能你从未问过这个问题。 不是你用意志力去停止它 这当然是愚蠢的 你不可能用意志力来停止思想。 意志是欲望的核心 我们之前解释过欲望。 那么思想 虽自行产生但它是否能够终结？ 思想必然会被自然地用到，当你驾驶一辆汽车 当你从这里回到你家，当你做饭 当你洗盘子，等等 思想必须在那儿。 在心理世界，思想的必要性究竟是什么？ 如果真地理解了思想 它所有的活动 它的开始、它的起源。 它的起源是经验、知识 在大脑中存储的记忆 对于记忆的反应就是思想。 这所有的过程都是受限的 因为知识在现在或未来都是受限的。 当你真地看到、察觉到思想的局限 不是对此的想象 不是将其结束的想法 而是真正地，自己去发现 思想，无论它做什么 不论在技术世界还是在心理世界 都将是受限的。 当你看到这绝对的事实 以及在某些领域内思想的必要性 当你全神贯注于此的时候 那么你就会自己发现思想是可以结束的。 如果你说，“然后呢？”那么你就迷失了。 如果你说，“如果思想结束，那里还有什么 有没有更多的什么？” 你明白我们大脑是如何运转的吗？ 那就是，我将会看到思想可以结束 如果你给我一些回报。 对不对？ 如果思想可以结束你将会发现 一些完全不同的东西。 这就是冥想。 不是控制，不是控制思想 因为控制者正是思想的一部分。 对不对？ 所以控制者是在玩一个游戏。 所以总会存在一个控制者试图控制思想。 但是控制者也是思想，即被控制之物。 在控制者和被控之物之间不存在界分 整个生命之中，如果一个人能够透彻地理解这点 你就会消除所有的冲突。 因此大脑，受限的、被禁锢的大脑 已失去它巨大的活力 它强大的能力。 如果一个人像那样有活力 随着你越来越老 大脑会变得越发敏捷 而不是变得衰老。 你们明白这些吗？
1:18:08 So meditation is something... to be totally free from all bondage... from all measurement, from all conflict. So the brain becomes quiet, utterly still. And that silence, stillness, has its own beauty, its own truth... its absolute sense of immeasurable thing. So meditation is not a reward... it is not something that you get illumined... by practising, which is all so childish. So truth is something which is not to be measured... and it has no path to it. And that is beauty, that is love. 所以冥想是 完全摆脱所有束缚的 摆脱所有衡量，所有冲突的事情。 于是大脑变得宁静、完全的寂静。 那种寂静、宁静拥有它自己的美、自己的真相 那是一种无法衡量的纯然感受。 所以冥想不是一种奖赏 它不是你通过练习 就能受到启发的什么东西，那是非常幼稚的。 所以真相是不能衡量的 并且没有通往它的道路。 这就是美，这就是爱。