克里希那穆提 - 为什么我们的家会处于失序中？

Krishnamurti Subtitles

OJ85T1 - 为什么我们的家会处于失序中？
美国加利福尼亚州欧亥
第一次公开演讲
1985年5月11日

0:22	Krishnamurti: I am sorry it is rather cool. I hope we will have better days.	克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：很抱歉天气有点凉了。我希望之后我们会遇到好天气。
0:51	We are going to talk over many things which concerns mostly our life, our daily, monotonous, rather tiresome, conflicting life. And one hopes that you will be quite assured that we are not doing any kind of propaganda. To propagate any point of view, any particular ideology, any conclusion, or any persuasion. We are going to talk over together, as two friends, our various problems, not only the problems of the world externally but also the very complex problem psychologically. We are going to talk over together, not accepting anything the speaker says, but rather questioning, doubting, enquiring together. So this is not a lecture or the speaker preaching.	我们将会来谈论很多东西，它们和我们的生活密切相关 ——我们日常的、单调的、相当无聊和充满冲突的生活。某人希望你们能非常清楚这一点，那就是我们并不是在这里进行任何的洗脑宣传。也并不是要传播任何观点立场、任何特定的意识形态、任何结论，或者要说服你任何事情。而是我们将会像两个朋友那样一起来讨论我们的各类问题，不只是外在世界中的那些问题，也包括了非常复杂的、心理上的问题。我们将会一起来讨论，不要接受演讲者所说的任何东西，而是我们一起去质疑，去怀疑，去探询。所以这并不是一次讲课，或者演讲者的布道。
3:03	But rather we should talk over, you and the speaker, not only what is actually happening in the world, which is becoming more and more disorderly, and also the world, that is much more complex, that demands a great deal of sanity, a great deal of looking, observing, searching, questioning, the world of the psyche, the so-called subjective world. And if one can be assured that this is not a sensational meeting where you are going to receive sensations. It is becoming more and more clear that we are dependent on sensation – either intellectual, emotional, imaginary, or sentimental, romantic. We must be very clear, all of us, if one may remind you, that we are together, you and the speaker, are going to look at the world first. That is the world that human beings have created, the economic, social, environmental, political and religious. The society that we have made, put together. The disorder, which is becoming quite dangerous, the world of tyranny, absolute tyranny, the so-called totalitarian states, and the democratic, the free state. This country, and perhaps one or two other countries, are open societies. You can do what you want to do, go where you will, change jobs, express your opinions, your judgements, criticise everything about you, if you want to. Or you accept what is and go along.	而是我们应该一起去探讨 ——你和演讲者—— 不仅是去探讨这个世界真实发生着的事情，这些事情正在变得越来越混乱失序，也要去探讨那个更为复杂的世界，这需要高度的心智健全，大量的观看、观察、寻找和质疑，也就是那个心灵的世界，那个我们所称之为的“主观世界”。而我想要向你们保证，那就是这并不是一次煽动情绪的集会 ——让你可以获得各种感官刺激。有一件事情正在变得越来越清楚，那就是我们是依赖于感官感觉的 ——那些思想、情感、想象，或者多愁善感和浪漫多情。我们必须非常清楚一点 ——我们所有人都要清楚——如果允许我提醒下你们的话，那就是我们先要一起——你们和演讲者一起—— 去审视一下这个世界。这个人类所创造出来的世界 ——经济的、社会的、生存环境的、政治的，以及宗教的世界。这个我们所制造和拼凑出来的社会。这种混乱正在变得相当危险，暴政的世界，彻底的专制，那些所谓的极权主义国家，还有那些民主的、自由的国家。这个国家（美国），也许还有其他一两个国家，是开放的社会。你可以做任何你想要做的事，去任何你想去的地方，自由地换工作，表达你的观点和意见，批评你周围的任何事物——如果你想要批评的话。或者你会接受现状，安稳生活。
7:00	So please bear in mind, if you will, that we are going to talk over as two friends – we may be strangers, perhaps, the speaker doesn't know all of you, certainly not. But as we are here this morning and the next week, we are going to quietly, hesitantly, tentatively look at what we are doing, enquire together, after all these millennia of evolution, thousands upon thousands of years of long duration of time, why we are what we are.	所以如果可以的话，请你们牢记这一点：那就是我们将会来讨论这些就像两个朋友在讨论一样 ——我们也许是陌生人，演讲者并不认识你们，当然不认识了。但既然今天早上以及下个礼拜，我们都会聚在这里，所以我们要安静地、迟疑地、试探性地来观察一下我们正在做的事情，一起去探询为什么在经过了几千年的进化，经历了成千上万年的漫长岁月之后，为什么我们依然是老样子？
8:22	There are various kinds of disorder. War is the greatest disorder. And every little nation is arming itself, supplied by the great powers and the little powers. And there has been holocaust – the last war. And there are other kinds of holocaust going on now, Beirut, Vietnam, and South America, Russia, and so on. There hasn't been only one holocaust. Those holocausts are taking place now. And we seem to have become totally indifferent to what is happening in the Far East, in the Near East, in the Middle East, in Europe and Russia and here. We are really insensitive, indifferent, silent in the sense, though one may have demonstrations, these demonstrations are taking place all over the world for various causes, not wanting a particular kind of war, neutron bombs and the atom bombs, but nobody, as far as one has been able to make out, nobody wants to end wars.	我们有着各种各样的混乱失序。战争就是最大的失序。每一个小国家都在武装它自己，由那些大国或较小的国家提供给它们武器。我们还有着大屠杀 ——比如上一次的世界大战。而现在，其他类型的大屠杀也正在发生着，在贝鲁特（黎巴嫩一港口），在越南，在南美洲，在俄罗斯，等等。我们并不是只有一场大屠杀。这些大屠杀如今正在发生着。而我们似乎已经变得漠不关心了，我们并不关心那些发生在远东地区、近东地区和中东地区的事情，也不关心发生在欧洲、俄罗斯以及这里的事情。我们真的非常麻不不仁、漠不关心和沉默，尽管我们也许会去示威游行，全世界都在发生着各种示威游行，人们游行有着各种原因：比如不想要某种类型的战争，中子弹战争和原子弹战争，但是却没有人——就某人所观察到的来说—— 没有人想要停止战争。
11:05	And as we said, there is disorder. The ideological disorder. One country, one part of the world having crystallised in a particular ideology. Leninism has become the religion of a certain part of the world, and anybody who is against it becomes a heretic, like the old Middle Ages, when the Catholics burnt people, they were heretics, heathens. That is what is happening in a certain part of the world, and we are indifferent to it. We know it is happening out there, newspapers are full of it, books have been written about it. And the murder – one sect against another sect of the same religion, being armed by the others, killing each other in the name of God, in the name of peace, in the name of their own particular ideology. These are all facts. The speaker is not saying anything that is not actually taking place. And we are indifferent as long as it is far away. Apparently we become terribly alive, active when it touches us, when it touches each one of us, when it is very near at home, in your backyard. Again that is a fact. And knowing all this, in words, in books, in the newspapers and television, we seem to be unable to do whatever about all this. Again that is a fact. And if we can this morning and this following week – next week, rather – we will go and find out together what each one of us can do. What is our responsibility, not just the words, but the actual feeling of responsibility, as you feel responsible for your wife or children, for your husband or your girlfriends, and so on. If you feel responsible. But when one asks oneself, what is one's place in this world, what is the relationship of oneself to the rest of mankind, what is one to do with this appalling, frightening chaos in the world. And most of us are aware, know, not only verbally but actually – we have been through wars, through concentration camps, whether in the recent war or in the past wars, or the concentration camps that are going on now – we know what is happening, how deeply we are responsible or how superficially, how indifferent. Or actively taking part in the whole human society, not a particular part of the world, whether America or Russia or England, France or India or Japan. We are human beings apart from economic and national frontiers, religious frontiers, we are all human beings, black, white, purple, pink, or whatever colour it be. It is our earth to be lived on, to enjoy the marvellous beauty of the land, the lovely seas and the hills and the great valleys and mountains, the groves, the orchards and the meadows. But apparently we are incapable of living together without any barrier, without any separation as nationalities, which is really a glorified form of tribalism, without any organised religious attachments. We talk a great deal about freedom in the democratic world, though in the other parts of the world, though they feel the demand for freedom, the human necessity for freedom, the absolute elite destroy their freedom.	就像我们说过的，这个世界存在着混乱失序。那些意识形态上的混乱。某个国家，世界上的某一个地区，固守于某种特定的意识形态。列宁主义在世界上的某些地区已经变成了一种宗教信仰，而任何反对它的人都变成了异教徒，就像中世纪一样，那时天主教徒会烧死某些人，因为那些人是异教徒，是异端者。这就是这个世界上某些地区正在发生的事情，而我们却对此非常冷漠。我们知道这些事情正在外面发生着，报纸上都是这些事情，很多书都是讲这些事情的。我们还有着那些谋杀 ——同一个宗教中的某个教派会对抗另一个教派，被他人所武装，去彼此杀戮——以上帝的名义，以和平的名义，以他们自己特定意识形态的名义。这些都是事实。演讲者并没有在说任何没有实际发生的事情。而只要这些事情还是离我们很遥远，我们就依然保持漠不关心。但很显然，当这些事情触及到我们时，我们就会变得极其活跃，我们会积极行动起来，当这些事触及到了我们每个人，当它来到了我们家门口，来到了你家后院的时候。这同样也是一个事实。在知道了这一切后，通过言语，通过书籍，通过报纸和电视，我们似乎对这一切感到无能为力。这同样也是一个事实。而如果我们可以在今天早上以及接下来的这周 ——更确切地说是下个星期—— 我们将会一起去发现一下我们每个人能够对此做些什么。我们的责任是什么？不只是嘴上说说，而是真正地有那种责任感，就像你感到对你的妻子、孩子、丈夫或你的女朋友等等负有责任一样。如果你感到负有责任的话。当我们问自己：我在这个世界上的位置是什么？我和世界上其他人的关系是什么？我们要怎么做怎么去处理这个世界上那些可怕与骇人的混乱。我们大多数人都能觉察到，都能知道不只是口头上知道，而是真切地知道 ——我们已经经历过了战争，经历过了集中营，无论是在最近的战争中还是在过去的战争中，或者还是现在正在运作着的那些集中营 ——我们都知道正在发生的事情，我们的责任感有多么深切，或者多么肤浅，我们是多么的漠不关心。还是说我们会积极地参与全人类社会的事务，而不只是这个世界的某个地方 ——不管是美国、俄罗斯、英国法国、印度还是日本。我们都是人类的一员，除去那些经济的、国籍的分隔，宗教的分隔，我们都是人类的一份子，不管是黑皮肤、白皮肤、紫色皮肤、粉红皮肤，还是无论什么颜色皮肤的人。这是我们大家的地球，这是我们赖以生存的地球，有了它，我们才能欣赏大地那不可思议的美丽，欣赏动人的海洋和丘陵，那宏伟的山谷和山脉，那些小树林、果园和草地。但很显然，我们无法生活在一起而没有任何的边界，没有任何国家民族的分隔， ——国家民族其实是一种美化了的部落主义，没有任何组织化宗教的陈规教条。在民主世界里，我们大肆谈论着自由，尽管在世界上的其他地方，人们还在要求着自由，人类所必需的那种自由，那些专制的精英摧毁了他们的自由。
18:37	So can we, recognising all this, not merely verbally, not merely descriptively, not accepting mere explanations, whether it be historical or dialectical or personal, can we look at all this impersonally, if that is possible, without any bias, prejudice, and find out together what we can do.	所以我们能否在认识到了所有这一切后——不仅仅是口头上认识到，不仅仅是通过描述而认识到，不仅仅是接受那些解释 ——无论是历史学的解释、辩证法的解释，还是某个人的解释，我们能否抛开个人因素，客观地来观察这一切 ——如果可能的话，不要带有任何偏见或成见，而是一起去发现我们能够做些什么？
19:43	What is disorder? What would you consider to be disorder? And what is order? Is order brought about by ideologies? By one's opinions, judgements, various religious conclusions with their experiences? Is not the very ideologies the cause of disorder?	什么是失序（disorder）？你认为什么才是失序？而秩序又是什么？你能够通过意识形态带来秩序吗？你能够通过你个人的观点、评判、各种宗教的断言及其经验而带来秩序吗？意识形态本身难道不正是导致失序的原因吗？
20:52	Please, we are thinking together. Don't – if one may suggest most earnestly – don't merely listen to what the speaker is saying. If you are merely listening as a long series of words, it is not worth listening. But if you listen not only with the hearing of the ear but listen with your heart, with your mind, with all your being to find out what we can do as human beings.	请注意，我们是在一起思考。所以请不要——如果某人可以很认真地建议下的话—— 请不要只是听演讲者说话。如果你只是听了一下那些长篇大论的话语，那么它是不值得一听的。但如果你不只是用你耳朵的听觉去听，也用你的心灵、你的头脑去聆听，用你全部的存在去发现我们作为人类能够做些什么？
21:45	There is considerable mess in the world, which is called disorder – dangerous mess. And around this mess we organise, and reorganise what has been organised. I hope you are following all this. And this reorganisation around the disorder, mess, confusion, conflict, this reorganising around that is called progress. Right? You are following all this? And we are satisfied with these new organisations. We feel we are vitally progressing. But the mess, the confusion, the conflict, the disorder, the terror that is going on, has been going on for millennia upon millennia. Now, we know it is happening all over the world, through quick communication and so on. It is said that to train a Roman legion soldier in Italy, Rome, took 15 to 20 cents. Now it takes probably thousands of dollars. You are following all this? And we have progressed tremendously. The man with a club killed another. Then somebody came along and invented archery, and they said, at last all wars will end. This will kill so many people. Then came along various instruments, materials of war, and we have the latest one, the absolute bomb that can evaporate human beings by the million with one blow. And we have made again a vast progress.	这个世界混乱不堪 ——这被称之为“失序” 那是危机四伏的混乱。而我们围绕着这种混乱我们去组织各类事物，然后再去重组那些已经组织好的事物。我希望你们都理解了这些。而这种围绕着失序、混乱、困惑和冲突而进行的重组，这种围绕着这些事物所进行的重组就被称为“进步”。对吧？你们都理解这些了吗？而我们满足于这些新的组织。我们觉得自己有了巨大的进步。然而那些混乱、困惑、冲突、失序和恐怖却依然在发生着，这些东西已经持续了几千年了。现在，我们都知道这些事情正在全世界发生着，通过快速通信等等手段，我们知道了这些事。据说当年在意大利，在罗马，人们训练一个罗马军团的士兵需要花费十五至二十美分。而现在，它可能要花费数千美元。你们都明白这些了吗？我们有了惊人的“进步”。当年人们是用棍棒来杀死别人的。然后某人过来了，他发明了射箭。然后他们说，最终，所有的战争都会结束。因为这玩意儿能杀死很多很多的人。然后又出现了各种战争的器械和战争的材料工具，而我们最新拥有的战争工具，便是那个终极的炸弹，这个炸弹可以一下子让数百万人从地球消失。而我们再次取得了巨大的“进步”。
24:40	In all this, the wars, the terrors, the appalling things that are going on, we have never tackled cruelty. Not the cruelty of Central Europe or the recent war with all their horror, and the horrors of war that are going on in the world, we have never as human beings been able to be free of cruelty, not only to the animals, to nature, but to each other. The ultimate cruelty is war, naturally. Can we as human beings look at this word first, the word 'cruelty', then feel the meaning and the depth of that word. Cruelty to one's own self as discipline, we will go into all that. Cruelty to others, exploiting others, using each other for our own personal ambition or sexual ambition. All these are various forms of cruelty ideological cruelty and so on. It is not the cruelty of a particular group of people, but the cruelty that is almost in every human being, wanting to hurt somebody else.	所有这些事情，那些战争，那些恐怖，那些骇人之事正在发生着，我们却从未去着手处理这种残忍。不是中欧发生的那些残忍之事，或者最近的战争及其骇人的恐怖，或者世界上正在发生着的可怕的战争，而是，我们作为人类，从来未能摆脱掉残忍，不仅是对动物的残忍，对大自然的残忍，也包括人类彼此之间的残忍。而最终极的残忍，便是战争，这是很显然的。作为人类，我们能否先去审视一下这个词 ——“残忍”这个词，然后去感受一下这个词的意义和深度。对我们自己的残忍，那些戒律，我们将会来探究所有这些东西。对他人的残忍，剥削他人，彼此利用来实现我们个人的野心，或者性方面的野心。所有这些不同形式的残忍，意识形态上的残忍等等。它并不是某个特定团体的残忍，而是几乎存在于每一个人身上的残忍，我们都想要去伤害别人。
27:12	Why is it, after all the religious admonitions, long before Christianity, many, many centuries before Christianity, they said, don't kill. The other is yourself. And we are still going on. Can this end? That is one of our great problems of life, whether this cruelty which is inherent – please listen to all this – which is inherent in self-interest. As long as there is self-interest, there must be exploitation of another, cruelty to another, using others, and so on. This self-interest, which hides under every form of expression, it hides behind the name of God, it hides in every priest and every human being. Aren't you self-interested in yourself? Of course. But one never faces it. One doesn't want to look at it. And to pursue it, to find out, all its trickery, all its hypocritical hypocrisy, its pride, its arrogance, its vanity and its humility, it requires great awareness and it demands great discipline. But we are all rather slack people. We are rather sloppy in our thinking. We are never certain about anything. We have a lot of beliefs, dogmas, faith. I wonder if you have examined, certain religion as Christianity, and the world of Islam, based on books, if you begin to question them, doubt, the whole thing would collapse, because we never doubt our own thinking, our own experience. We never question.	为什么会这样？在听取过了所有那些宗教训诫后，早在基督教之前就有了，在基督教诞生的数百年之前，人们就在说：不要杀戮，因为别人就是你自己。然而，我们却仍旧在杀戮。这一切能够结束吗？这就是我们生活中最大的问题之一，这种残忍，它是与生俱来的 ——请认真聆听这一切—— 那种自私自利（self-interest）是与生俱来的。而只要还是有自私自利，那就必然会有对他人的剥削，对他人的残忍，利用他人，等等。这种自私自利它隐藏在各种形式的措辞之下，它藏在上帝名字的后面，它藏在每一个牧师和每一个人身上。你难道不是自私自利的吗？当然是的。但我们却从未去面对过它。我们不想要去观察它。而如果你想去追问探究它，去发现它，发现它所有的诡计，所有的虚伪伪善，它的骄傲，它的傲慢，它的虚荣和它的谦卑，这需要强烈的觉察，它要求你有高度的自律（discipline）。然而我们都是非常懈怠懒散的人。我们的思考都是相当草率马虎的。我们从未能够确定任何东西。我们有着很多的信仰、教条、信念。我不知道你是否曾经调查过，那就是某些宗教，比如基督教和伊斯兰教，这些宗教是建立在圣书之上的，如果你开始去质疑它们，去怀疑它们的话，那么整个宗教体系就会倒塌崩溃了，因为我们从来没有去怀疑过我们自己的思考，我们自己的经验。我们从不去质疑。
32:34	I hope that has been a nice distraction.	我希望它（飞机噪音）是一次很好的分心。
32:48	As we were saying, we never question our thinking, our prejudices, our conclusions, to find out whether they are accurate, or merely opinions. Or we never question our own demand for self-interest. So please, during these talks, and question and answer meetings, there must be doubt. Doubt is essential. A certain form of scepticism without cynicism because that clears the brain so that one can see clearly. One can see clearly what one is. And so especially be sceptical with what the speaker is saying, especially, because he is not a guru, he doesn't want a thing from you – neither your applause, and so on. Please be assured of that. So you can relax and be free. Because it is very important, if you are really assured, convinced that the speaker is not expecting a thing from you, doesn't want your money, except what you give for the donations. But it is not for the speaker – it is to keep the place clean, and the schools and so on. He doesn't want to create any sensation in you, because you want to be entertained. Your novels, your books, your television – everything entertains you. And you like that, the religious entertainment. But here we are trying to fathom, delve into this deep problem of our existence.	就如我们所说的，我们从来没有去质疑过我们自己的思考、我们的偏见、我们的结论，去发现它们是否准确，还是说仅仅是一些个人观点，或者说，我们从来没有去质疑过我们自己对利己主义的诉求。所以在这几次演讲和问答会中，请你们务必去怀疑。怀疑是必不可少的。你需要有某种没有愤世嫉俗的怀疑主义因为那将可以清扫你的大脑，由此你便可以去看清楚。你可以清楚地看到自己的真实模样。所以，你尤其要去怀疑演讲者所说的话 ——特别是他说的话，因为他并不是一位古鲁，（guru：指印度教等宗教的宗师或领袖）他并不想要从你这里获得任何一样东西 ——无论是你的掌声喝彩，还是别的什么。这点请你们大可放心。所以你们可以放松下来，变得自由一些。因为这是非常重要的，如果你们真的确信，真的相信演讲者并不期望从你这里获得任何东西，他并不想要你的钱，除了你所给予的捐款。但这捐款并不是给演讲者的 ——它是为了保持场地的清洁，开办学校，等等。演讲者也并不想要给你们带来任何感官刺激，因为你们都想要娱乐。你们的小说，你们的书籍，你们的电视 ——一切东西都在为你提供娱乐。而你也喜欢它们，比如那种宗教的娱乐。但我们在这里是要试着去探索，去深入探究这个关于我们生活的深奥问题。
36:39	So is it possible, we are asking, to bring about order in our life. If there is complete order, both biologically and psychologically complete order, then there is no conflict. There is conflict and disorder when we pursue an ideology – the ideal, which is projected from our confusion. So your ideals bring about confusion. I don't know if you are aware of all this. It is very clear if you observe what is happening in the so-called totalitarian states. There the ideology is supreme. The ideology of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and all those people, and their interpreters, they are creating and have done in the past and are doing it now, great disorder in the world. Any ideology, whether it is the Catholic ideology, or the Hindu ideology, or the socialist and so on, they are bound to create disorder because the ideology, you believe in. I accept that ideology. Therefore you divide yourself against other ideologies. And hence there is conflict in ideologies. If you once actually, deeply see that, not merely verbally, intellectually, but deeply inwardly, in your blood, the truth of that, then you are a free man to look at something else. But ideologies give us the sense of security. And that is why we cling to beliefs and dogmas, faith, which are put together by priests and so on – I won't go into all that – and we cling to that. There are over 800 Catholics, I don't know how many divisions of Protestantism, and there is in the Islamic world several sects fighting each other, killing each other. But in the Buddhist and Hindu world it exists but not so violently.	所以，我们问：是否可能为我们的生活带来秩序？如果我们有了完全的秩序 ——既包括生理上也包括心理上的完全的秩序，那么就不会再有冲突了。当我们追求某个意识形态时，就会有冲突和失序了当我们追求那个理想时，那个理想是由我们自身的混乱所投射出来的。所以你的理想会带来混乱。我不知道你是否也意识到了这一切。这是显而易见的事，你可以去观察一下那些所谓的极权主义国家中正在发生的事情。在那里，意识形态高于一切。马克思、列宁、斯大林，和所有这类人的意识形态，以及他们的诠释者，他们正在制造着失序，他们在过去已经带来了失序，而现在，他们也正在制造着这个世界巨大的失序。任何意识形态，不管它是天主教徒的意识形态，还是印度教徒的意识形态，或者社会主义者的意识形态，等等，它们都必定会带来失序，因为你对那种意识形态深信不疑，我接受了这种意识形态。由此你就分离孤立了你自己，去对抗其他的意识形态。由此便有了各种意识形态之间的冲突。如果你曾经真切地、深刻地看到这一点，不仅仅是口头上或思想智力上看到它，而是内在地、深刻地、发自肺腑地看到这个事实真相，那么你就是一个自由之人，可以自由地去审视其他事物了。然而，由于那些意识形态给予了我们安全感。所以我们便紧抓着那些信仰、教条和信念不放，而它们只是由神职人员等等所拼凑组合起来的东西 ——我就不深入这些了—— 我们紧抓着这些东西不放。我们有八百多个天主教派，我不知道新教有多少派别，而在伊斯兰教的世界里，几个不同的教派也在彼此斗争，彼此杀戮。这种现象也存在于佛教和印度教的世界中，只是没有那么暴力。
40:38	So can one, knowing the truth of this, the feeling, the depth of the truth, put away all ideologies which divide human beings. This is a very serious question, please don't push it aside and say, why shouldn't I have my own particular little ideology or my own particular ideal? The ideal based on my experience, my knowledge. Then that knowledge, that experience, that particular concept one clings to must be questioned, doubted, torn apart to find the truth of it.	所以，在知晓了这个事实真相，深刻感受到了这个真相后，我们能否抛弃所有分裂了人类的意识形态？这是一个非常严肃的问题，请不要把它扔到一边，然后说：为什么我不能有自己特定的小小的意识形态呢？为什么我不能有自己特别的理想呢？理想是建立在我的经验、我的知识之上的。然而那种我们所执著于的知识、经验、特定的观念，我们必须去质疑它、怀疑它，把它拆散开来，从而去发现它的真相。
41:51	Then one must ask, what is disorder? Why we live in our private life and also in public life, why there is so much disorder. The speaker is not asking the question. You are asking the question. Who has brought about this disorder? Don't casually say, yes, each one of us is responsible, and then put that aside too. We learn quick answers because we are all very learned people – 'learned' in quotes. But we never ask of ourselves why our house is in disorder. Which means, where there is disorder there must be conflict. And we live with conflict, the ultimate being war with its total irresponsibility, and the disorder. You may have great order in your house, physical house, as most Americans do, but we are talking not only of the external disorder but also inward disorder. Why is there in all of us such conflict, which breeds disorder?	那时我们就必须要问：什么是失序？为什么在我们的私人生活以及公共生活中，为什么会有如此多的混乱失序？不是演讲者在问这个问题，而是你在问这个问题。是谁带来了这种失序？不要只是随口说一句：是的，我们每个人都负有责任，然后也把这个问题抛在一边了。我们已经学会了快速的回答，因为我们都是“有学问”的人 ——这里的“有学问”是加引号的。但我们从来没有扪心自问过：为什么我们的家会处于失序中？它的意思就是，当有了失序，就必然会有冲突。而我们生活在冲突之中，而最终的结果就是战争，及其彻底的不负责任以及失序。你自己的家里或许是井然有序的 ——物质意义上的家，大多数人美国人都是如此，但我们在谈论的不仅是外在的失序，也包括内在的失序。为什么我们所有人内心都会有这样的冲突 ——这种冲突滋生了失序？
44:17	What is this conflict? Why have we human beings lived with disorder? Not only during this century, not only last week and now, but man has lived in disorder for thousands of years. We have inherited it, our brains are conditioned to conflict. Our very way of looking at life, thinking about, accepting, disobeying, belonging to this and not to that, belonging to a particular sect, particular silly guru – I hope you don't mind my using that word – particular person who says, I have got it, you haven't got it, let me lead you. The vanity of these people and their followers. So what is this conflict due to, the reason, the root of it?	这种冲突是什么呢？为什么我们人类要生活在失序之中？不只是在这个世纪中，不只是在上周和现在，而是人类已经生活在失序中有数千年了。我们已经遗传继承了这种失序，我们的大脑局限于冲突中。我们看待生活的方式，我们的思考方式，接受、不服从，属于这个，而不属于那个，归属于某个特定的教派，某个愚蠢的古鲁 ——我希望你们不介意我使用（愚蠢）这个词—— 某个人说，我已经达到了它，而你们还没有，所以让我来引导你们吧。这些人和他们的追随者是虚荣而浮华的。所以这种冲突是由什么引起的？它的原因是什么？它的根源是什么？
45:48	First let us look very closely and intimately, deeply at that human brain – which has evolved through centuries upon centuries, millennia, two million or three million years, or fifty million years, or fifty thousand years – why this brain, the brain of human beings, not my particular brain, there is no my particular brain. A nice idea, I think my brain is mine. But the brain has evolved like the human organism. Your organism is like another organism, highly evolved, sensitive, intelligent. Each organism has its own intelligence, but we are slowly destroying that intelligence by drugs, alcohol, smoking, the whole business of modern absurd existence. So, what is the cause in our daily life, we are talking first. If there is order in each one of us, now as you are listening, if each one of us has this complete order in ourselves, do you think we would kill another? Do you think we would belong to any nation, any group, any guru? Any book that is sanctified through time? Then there would be no fear, no sorrow, no loneliness, and certainly no gods. So we are going to find out together if it is possible to have this complete order in ourselves.	首先，让我们非常密切地、亲近地、深刻地来看一下人类的大脑 ——这个大脑已经发展进化了无数个世纪了，它已经进化了几千年，进化了两百或三百万年，或者进化了五千万年或五万年了 ——为什么这个大脑，这个人类的大脑，它不是我个人的大脑，并不存在什么“我个人的大脑”。这是一个很聪明的想法：认为我的大脑是我自己的。但是那个大脑，它和其他人体组织一样，也是进化发展而来的。你的机体组织和别人的机体组织一样，它是高度进化的，它很敏感，有自己的智慧。每一种机体组织都有其自身的智慧，但我们正在慢慢地摧毁这种智慧，通过毒品、酒精、抽烟，所有这些现代人荒谬生活中的事物。所以，冲突的原因是什么呢？我们首先说的是我们日常生活中的冲突。如果我们每一个人内心都拥有秩序——比如现在正在聆听演讲的你，如果我们每一个人内在都拥有这种完全的秩序，你觉得我们还会去杀死别人吗？你觉得我们还会属于任何国家、任何团体、任何古鲁吗？属于任何在时间长河中被神圣化的书籍吗？那时就不会有恐惧、不会有痛苦、不会有孤独，当然也不会有上帝了。所以我们将要一起来发现我们是否可能拥有这种内在的完全的秩序？
48:37	Are you interested in it? Honestly? Would you spend your time, not your money – that is the last filthy thing you can ask – would you spend your energy to find out? As you spend your energy going to the office or the laboratory or a particular scientific discipline and so on, you give great deal of energy in all these directions for power, money, position, recognition, fame, all the notoriety of all that, you spend tremendous energy going to the office day after day, day after day for 50, 60 years, and trying to cure others when you need curing yourself. Now, will you give some of that energy? Sitting there quietly looking, thinking together, will you give that energy? Not all of it, because you have to go to office the day after tomorrow morning, or the factory or some job. Will you give that energy to find out, if you can put your house in order, inward house, this whole complex structure of the psyche. If you will give it to yourself, not to me, not to the speaker, he won't accept it, then together find out. Together find out, not the speaker tells you, then it becomes absurd, childish, immature. But if you give that energy, that vitality, the drive behind it, to find out if you can live without a single shadow of conflict, then we can ask what is the cause of it. Because when you can find the cause the effect doesn't exist. I don't know if you have gone into the question of cause and effect. We will go into it briefly.	你们对它有兴趣吗？真的有兴趣？你愿意花费你的时间，不是你的金钱 ——这是你可以要求的最后的肮脏东西了—— 你愿意花费你的精力去发现它吗？就像你会花费你的精力去办公室上班，去实验室工作，或者去研究某一门科学学科等等一样，你在所有这些事情上消耗了大量的精力，以此来获得权力、金钱、地位、赞誉、名声，所有那些追名逐利的把戏，你付出了巨大的精力日复一日，一天又一天地去办公室上班，就这样重复五六十年的时间，努力去给别人治病——当你自己也需要治疗的时候。那么，你愿意花费其中一部分的精力安静地坐在那里去观察，去一起思考吗？你愿意付出那种精力吗？不是要你付出所有的精力，因为后天早上你还是得去办公室上班，或者去工厂上班，或者去从事某个工作。你愿意花费一些精力去发现吗？要是你能让你的家变得井然有序，你内在的家，那整个心理上的复杂的结构。如果你可以为自己的家付出精力，不是为我的家，不是为演讲者的家，他不会接受它的，然后我们就可以一起去发现了。是一起去发现，而不是演讲者告诉你 ——这样的话，它就变得很荒谬、幼稚和不成熟了。但如果你能付出那种精力，那种活力，那种背后的驱动力，去发现你是否可以没有丝毫冲突阴影地生活？那时我们就可以问了：冲突的原因是什么呢？因为当你可以找到那个原因，那么结果就不复存在了。我不知道你们是否深入探究过关于原因和结果的问题。我们将会简单地来探讨一下它。
52:11	Cause is not separate from the effect. The effect lies in the cause. If there is no cause there is no effect. But we separate the cause and the effect. The acorn of these oaks produce the oak. But the tree, the whole leaf, the beauty of the leaves, the sunlight on the leaves and the branches and the trunk, it lies in the seed. But to us, the cause and effect are two different things. We say, if I can get rid of the cause, perhaps I will be very healthy. But it is like saying the means to the goal matters, or the means doesn't matter for the goal, for the end – whereas the means is the end. You understand all this? Look at it, what is happening in the world. They are talking about peace, all of them, and building up armaments. The cause is fear, trying to save something or other, etc. As long as there is that fear, that desire to be completely safe for oneself, you are going to have wars. We will talk about it later.	原因和结果并不是分开的。结果就深藏在原因之中。如果没有原因，就不会有结果。但我们已经把原因和结果分开了。这些橡树的橡子会长成橡树。然而那整棵树、那整片叶子，那些树叶的美，阳光闪烁的树叶、枝条和树干，它们早藏在那颗种子里了。然而对我们来说，原因和结果却是两个不同的东西。我们说，如果我可以摆脱掉病因，也许我就会非常健康了。但这就好像是在说，达到目标的手段才是重要的，或者对于目标和目的来说，手段并不重要 ——然而手段其实就是目标。你们理解这一切了吗？看看这个世界正在发生的事情吧。人们正在谈论着和平——所有人都在谈论，同时却在筹备着军事武器。那个原因就是恐惧，试图去保留住某个事物，等等。而只要还是存在着这样的恐惧，那种想要获得自身彻底安全的欲望，那么你们就会有战争。这个我们之后再来讲。
54:21	So what is the cause of this disorder in which we live? As I said, give your brain, thought, your energy to find out. It is not very difficult. Don't call it difficult and then make it difficult. It is very simple. Look what is happening between the Palestinians, the Arabs and the Israelis. They are of the same group. They live on this same earth. But one has been trained, educated, programmed to think he is an Arab. Programmed like a computer for the last 1600 years. And the other side, call them the Israelis, for 4000 years. They are old people, like the Hindus, like the Chinese. So they have divided themselves, the Arab and the Israelis. The Americans and the old Indians of this country, you have very carefully destroyed them. The holocaust.	所以，我们所生活于其中的这种失序，它的原因是什么？就如我说过的，你要用你的大脑、思考和精力去找到答案。这并不难。不要说它很难，然后真的把它变成难题了。它其实非常简单。你可以去看一下巴勒斯坦人、阿拉伯人和以色列人之间正在发生的事情。他们都属于同一个团体。他们生活在同一个地球上。但是其中一类人，在过去的1600年里，他已经被培养和教育，被设定了程序，去认为自己是一个阿拉伯人。就像设定好程序的电脑一样。而另一类人则自称是以色列人，号称他们已经有4000年的历史了。他们是非常古老的民族，就像印度人和中国人一样。所以他们已经分裂了自己，那些阿拉伯人和以色列人。美国人以及这个国家里的老印第安人，你们已经精心地摧毁了他们。那场大屠杀。
56:27	So, there must be conflict as long as there is division. Please, this is a law. It is not my law, it is a law, not the law of the judges and the court, but this is the eternal law. As long as you are separate from your wife, and the wife separate from you, with their ambition, with their desire for fulfilment, with their pride, with their separate sense – I must fulfil, I must be this, I must be that. In that relationship there will be conflict, as there is conflict between the disciple and the guru, conflict between God and you – if there is a God. So wherever there is a division between me and you, and they and we, we are going to have conflict.	所以只要还是存在分裂，就必然会有冲突。请注意，这是一个定律。它并不是我的定律，它就是定律，它不是法官们和法庭上的那种法律，而是永恒的定律。只要你还是和你的妻子彼此分离，或者妻子和你是分离的，带着各自的野心，带着各自想要自我实现的欲望，带着各自的骄傲，各自的分离独立感 ——我必须要实现自己，我必须要成为这个或那个。那么在那种关系中就会有冲突了，就像古鲁和弟子之间会有冲突一样，就像上帝和你之间会有冲突一样——如果存在上帝的话。所以，当有了“你”和“我”、“他们”和“我们”这类区分我们便会有冲突。
58:00	How does this division come about? Is it self-interest on the part of one of us? Please examine, question, doubt, ask. Is it that each one of us is so self-centred, so concerned with himself? So that very concern divides. You may get married, live with another and so on, but this division goes on. And we accept this division as being natural and therefore accept conflict, everlasting struggle as part of existence, part of life, it is natural to struggle, to battle with each other. And the raison d'être for that is: doesn't everything fight in nature? Each tree is fighting for light. The bigger animal eats the lesser animal and so on – that is the reason we give. So, our life then is accepted as being naturally, inevitably to be lived in conflict. But we never ask actually is it possible not to have this separate individualistic self-interest at all.	那么这种分裂是怎么出现的呢？是不是因为我们每个人身上的自私自利？请你务必去检视、质疑、怀疑和提问。是不是因为我们每个人都是如此的自我中心，如此的关心自己？所以这种关心本身就造成了区分。你也许已经结婚了，和另一半生活在一起，等等，但是这种分裂还是在继续着。而我们接受了这种分裂，认为它是自然的，从而也就接受认可了冲突、那种永不停息的斗争，我们认为斗争是我们存在的一部分，是生活的一部分，认为斗争以及彼此战斗是很自然的事情。而我们对此给出的理由就是：自然界中的万物不都是需要斗争的吗？每一棵树都在奋力获取光照。大鱼吃小鱼，小鱼吃虾米，等等——这就是我们给出的原因。于是我们接受了自己的生活，认为它自然地、不可避免地会包含冲突。但我们从未真正地去问一下：是否可能完全没有这种分离的、个人主义的自私自利？
1:00:47	Are you, if one may ask, are you asking this question of yourself? Are you frightened to ask it? Or do you just listen, spend useless hours sitting under these trees and go away saying it is not possible, or, oh yes, it is possible, and just leave it like that. Or will you question it, seeing what the world is, actually about you, first – nationalistic division, religious divisions, ideological differences which we have created. The intellectuals, the terrorists, the imperialists. No empire has been built, whether the modern empire or the ancient empires, without blood. As they used to say, you first take the Bible and then the gun. This has been our way of life. And a man or a woman who is serious, really wants to find out whether conflict can end. If it ends, then only there is peace in the world. Peace demands a great deal of intelligence, not just a demonstration of peace. It doesn't lie in any capital of any country. It demands to have real peace within one's heart and mind about one to understand the nature of conflict and end it. And to understand that the structure and the nature of conflict requires observation, not condemnation, not taking sides about it, but just to observe what one is doing. How we are constantly separating ourselves – the American way of life and so on and on and on. Are you listening to all this? Or are you getting bored with all this? Would you kindly tell the speaker?	如果允许某人问一下的话，你是否你是否正在问自己这个问题？你害怕问自己这个问题吗？还是说，你只是随便听听，浪费几个小时的无聊时间坐在这些树下面听我演讲，然后走掉，说：这是不可能的，或者说：哦，是的，它是可能的，然后就没有下文了。还是说你会去质疑它，首先去看看你周围的世界究竟是什么样的？国家的区分、宗教的区分、各种不同的意识形态 ——这些都是我们一手创造出来的。那些知识分子、恐怖分子、帝国主义者共同创造了它们。任何一个帝国的建立 ——不管是现代的帝国还是古代的帝国—— 都是沾满了鲜血的。就像人们常常说的，你先拿起《圣经》，然后就可以拿起枪了。这就是我们一直以来的生活方式。而一个认真的男人或女人，他们会真正地想要去发现冲突是否可以终结。只有当冲突终结了，这个世界才会有和平。实现和平需要巨大的智慧，不只是搞一次争取和平的示威游行就行了。和平并不存在于任何国家的首都之中。它需要你拥有头脑和心灵中的真正的和平，由此你才能了解冲突的本质并结束它。而要了解它，了解冲突的结构和本质，这需要观察，不是谴责，不是支持某一方，而只是去观察我们在做的事情。我们是如何持续不断地分离孤立我们自己的 ——这就是美国人的生活方式，等等等等。你们在聆听这一切吗？还是说你们对这些感到有点厌烦了？你们可以告诉演讲者吗？
1:04:25	Audience: We are listening.	听众：我们正在聆听。
1:04:27	K: Please, you can all say yes, and go home. Or be stimulated for the moment by the speaker – that doesn't bring about the end of conflict. One must exercise the immense capacity of the brain, immense, infinite capacity of the brain. But our education limits that capacity. Our education also has helped us technologically, tremendous advancement, from the small computer to the complicated aeroplanes, submarines, warships, quick communication and so on, so on, so on. The more diseases are coming now, the more medicines are being invented. They are making tremendous progress. The speaker is not saying this in cynicism, these are facts. He abhors cynicism.	克：拜托，你们可以说是的，我们厌烦了，然后回家。或者你们可以从演讲者这里获得一些短暂的刺激 ——但这并不会带来冲突的终结。我们必须要去使用大脑那惊人的能力，大脑那巨大的、无限的能力。但我们的教育却限制了那种能力。我们的教育也帮助发展了我们的科学技术，无比先进的科技，从小型电脑到构造复杂的飞机、潜水艇、战舰、快速通信的方式，等等，等等。如今，当更多的疾病出现了，就会有更多的药物被发明出来。人类正在取得巨大的进步。演讲者这么说并不是出于犬儒主义，这些都是事实。他憎恶犬儒主义。
1:06:19	So can one observe quietly, without any choice, observe what is going on in ourselves? The mirror in which we see our faces. How you comb your hair, how you brush your teeth, how you shave or do your face up, and so on. Can we observe as closely, as definitely, as precisely as possible, without any distortion? That means we have to understand the movement of choice.	所以我们能否安静地观察 ——不带任何的选择—— 去观察我们内心正在发生的事情？就像一面镜子，我们可以在其中看到自己的脸。看到你是如何梳头的，你是如何刷牙的，你是如何刮胡子或洗脸的，等等。我们能否尽可能亲近地、清楚地、准确地去观察，而没有任何的扭曲？这意味着我们必须要了解选择的运动。
1:07:29	Why do we choose? Please ask yourself, why is there necessity of choice? Of course there is choice between two cars, between two materials. If you have the money, you choose the better. Between two authors. The choice between the shadow and the light, shadow of the sun, sun which creates the shadow, and the light of the sun. Dark and the daylight, tall, short – but is there psychological choice at all? You understand my question? Please ask yourself, why do we choose psychologically, inwardly, say I will do this, I won't do that. This is right, that is wrong. I am violent, but I must become non-violent. I have pride, but I will become humble. You understand? This inward choice going on all the time. Is there choice at all when there is clarity? Or is there choice only when there is confusion?	为什么我们要去选择？请问问你自己这个问题，为什么我们需要去选择？毫无疑问，我们需要在两辆汽车之间，两种材料之间进行选择。如果你有钱的话，你就会选择其中更好的那一个。我们也会在两位作者之间作出选择。在阴影和光亮之间作出选择，太阳的阴影，那个制造出了阴影的太阳，以及那个太阳的光亮。黑夜和白天，高的、矮的 ——但是，究竟是否存在心理上的选择呢？你理解我的问题了吗？请问一下你自己，为什么我们要在心理上进行选择？为什么我要在内心说：我要这样做，我不要那样做。这是对的，那是错的。我是暴力的，但我必须要变得非暴力（non-violent）。我很骄傲，但是我将会变得谦虚。你明白了吗？这种内心的选择它一直在发生着。当你内心了了分明，那时还会有任何选择吗？还是说只有当你混乱困惑时才会有选择？
1:09:45	Questioner: (Inaudible) K: Sorry sir, we will have questions on Tuesday, if you don't mind.	提问者：（不可闻的声音）克：对不起，先生，我们将会在星期二的时候举行问答会，希望你不要介意。
1:10:00	Please listen, that is, not to the speaker but yourself. You are asking this question, I am not asking you to ask that question. You are asking that question yourself. Why is there this choice of not to be violent? That is a choice. I am violent, but I will choose to be non-violent. Why is there that choice?	请听好，这个问题并不是问演讲者的，而是问你自己的。是你在问这个问题，并不是我叫你问这个问题的。是你自己在问这个问题。为什么我们要选择不暴力？这只是一个选择。我是暴力的，但是我选择变得“非暴力”。为什么会有这种选择呢？
1:10:42	Q: (Inaudible) K: Sir, would you kindly, please, if you would like to come and sit here and talk you are perfectly welcome.	提问者：（不可闻的声音）克：先生，请你能否稍安勿躁，如果你想要过来，坐在这里和我交谈，我非常欢迎你。
1:10:53	Q: (Inaudible) K: Sir, would you mind? You can ask questions on Tuesday and Thursday next week. I am not preventing you from asking questions. Please have the courtesy, the patience, and not get bored, to find out for yourself, not from what the speaker is saying, the speaker is not important, but what is being said together is important. The speaker is not seeking personal worship – there is no personality involved in this. I really mean it. He is not important at all, but what is being said is important.	提问者：（不可闻的声音）克：先生，请你能否你可以在下周二和下周四提问。我并不是在阻止你问问题。请多一些礼貌、耐心、不要厌烦，自己去发现它，而不是通过演讲者的话来发现，这位演讲者并不重要，但是我们在一起所讲的东西却是非常重要的。演讲者并没有在寻求个人崇拜 ——这其中不涉及任何个体人格。我是说真的。他根本不重要，但是他所说的那些东西是很重要的。
1:12:13	So we are asking, why is there this choice in us, apart from the choice of things. Could we look at it for a minute?	所以我们在问：为什么我们内心会有这种选择 ——除了那些外物的选择之外？我们能稍微来看一下这个问题吗？
1:12:35	Human beings throughout the world inherited probably from the apes and so on – they are violent people, human beings are, throughout the world. And he says he realises what is happening through violence, not only in himself, collectively, he says let us be non-violent, let's practice non-violence, let's talk about non-violence, let us use that instrument politically, and so on. This has been one of the things that India has produced – non-violent – not only India but others have talked about it long before. So we, I, you, are violent – if I am violent at all – we are violent. And then we say, I will become non-violent, which is a choice, isn't it? Now, why do we do this? I am greedy, but I will not be greedy. Right? I am full of vanity, but I will pretend not to be vain. You can't become – where there is vanity, that cannot be changed into humility. Where there is vanity, the ending of it, complete ending of it, not that becoming that, only then there is humility. So let's look very carefully, if you will kindly have the patience and the energy, not be too bored and not too cold, why we are doing this all the time.	全世界的人类也许已经从类人猿等等那里遗传继承了一些东西 ——他们是暴力的，人类是暴力的，全世界的人都是如此。然后他说他意识到了因为暴力而发生的那些事情，不仅仅是发生在他身上的事，也包括发生在人类集体身上的事，于是他说：让我们变得“非暴力”吧，让我们练习“非暴力”吧，让我们来谈一下非暴力，让我们在政治上使用（非暴力）这个工具，等等。这是印度所创造出来的东西之一 ——即非暴力，它不只是印度人的创造，其他人在很早以前就谈论过它了。所以我们、我、还有你，都是暴力的——如果我也是暴力的话—— 我们都是暴力的。然后我们说：我将会变得“非暴力”，但这只是一个选择，不是吗？那么，为什么我们要选择呢？我是贪婪的，但我将会变得不贪婪。对吗？我充满了虚荣，但我会假装没有自负之情。你是无法变得当有了虚荣，这种虚荣是无法转变为谦逊的。当有了虚荣，那就结束它，彻底地结束它，而不是试图让这个变成那个，只有那时才会有谦逊。所以让我们非常小心仔细地来看一下它，如果你能有那种耐心和精力，不会感到太厌烦，也不会对此太过冷淡，为什么我们一直要这样做？
1:14:55	Take violence, because that is what is going on in the world and also in ourself. The tremendous sense of violence – the bombs, the killing, the knifing, the stealing, murder, rape, every form of violence. What is violence? Physical violence. That is one side of it. Surely violence is much more complicated than that. Violence is – if you examine it closely, go into it in yourself – violence is conformity. I am this, but I will be that. You don't understand this, but you think you understand that. One doesn't understand 'what is' actually, and without understanding that, you want to transform that into the other. Suppose I am violent. Physically, I don't like violence physically because I see it all about me. Suppose I said – I am not – I don't like what is going on, I won't be violent. I haven't understood the nature of violence, but I want to escape from that, therefore I create the ideal. So, after creating something which is not, then there is conflict between what is and what I think should be. This is what we are doing. So, I say to myself, before I achieve the other, which is non-violent, I must first understand what is violence. This seems so logical, isn't it? We have become so illogical and we are frightened of being logical because we are caught in illusions of trying not to be too logical. So I am going to be very logical first. I can go beyond logic after I have used logic.	就拿暴力来说吧，因为这就是这个世界以及我们身上正在发生着的事情。我们能强烈地感知到暴力 ——那些炸弹、那些屠杀、那些持刀行凶、那些盗窃、那些谋杀、强奸，各种形式的暴力。什么是暴力？身体上的暴力。这是暴力的一面。但显然，暴力远远要比这复杂得多。暴力是 ——如果你密切地去检视一下它，去探究你内心的暴力—— 你会发现，暴力就是遵从符合（conformity）。我是这样的，但我将会变成那样。你并不了解这个东西，但你认为你了解它。你并没有真正地了解“事实现状”，在没有了解它的情况下，你却想要把它转变为另一个东西。假如我是暴力的。从外在身体上而言，我并不喜欢暴力——外在身体上而言，因为我看到了我周围无处不在的暴力。我说的是“假如”——其实我并没有暴力—— 我不喜欢正在发生着的那些暴力，所以我不会去变得暴力。我还没有了解暴力的本质，但是我却想要逃离它，所以我创造出了理想。因此，在创造出了某个与事实不符的东西后，于是在事实现状和“我认为应该要怎样”之间就会有冲突。这就是我们在做的事情。所以，我对自己说：在我可以达到另一个事物 ——即非暴力——之前，我必须首先了解什么是暴力。这看起来是非常符合逻辑的，不是吗？我们已经变得如此的不合逻辑，而我们害怕变得逻辑，因为我们陷入于那些幻想中而试图不要变得太过于逻辑。所以我首先要变得非常逻辑才行。在我运用了逻辑以后，我就可以超越逻辑了。
1:18:31	I am violent. And I see everything around me has a different form of violence. From the animals, nature, and so on, the tremendous lightning, the beauty of it, it is a form of violence, the shock of it. And I am violent. Violence is not only physical, but a great deal much more psychological. When I conform to a pattern, when I am being allowed to be programmed. You understand? When you tell me what I should do, for the good of my soul or my psyche, or whatever it is, and you become the authority, so when I accept authority there is violence. Right? Psychological authority, of course. There is the authority of the computer. The authority of law. The authority of the policeman who says keep to the left, or right. If you drive in Europe, you keep to the right, if you drive in England or here – which is it, left? Yes, left. No – right? Right. I haven't driven lately. Yes, I walk down to the left and walk up the right, that is quite right.	我是暴力的。而我看到我周围的一切事物都有着不同形式的暴力。从动物到大自然，等等，那惊人的闪电，它的美，它就是某种形式的暴力，它会让你受到电击。而我也是暴力的。这种暴力并不仅仅是身体物理层面的，而更多的是心理层面的。它表现在我会去遵从符合某个模式，我会允许自己被程序化。你明白了吗？当你告诉我我应该怎么做才会有益于我的灵魂、我的心灵，或者无论那是什么，那时你就变成了权威，所以当我接受了权威那么就有了暴力。对吗？当然了，这里说的是心理上的权威。存在着计算机的权威，法律的权威，警察的权威，他会告诉你靠左边走，还是靠右边走。如果你在欧洲开车，你需要靠右边走，而如果你在英国或者这里开车——是靠哪边开的，左边吧？是的，左边。不对——是右边？好吧，右边。我最近都没有开车。是的，我是沿着左边走下来的，然后沿着右边走上去的，没错。
1:20:45	So, violence must exist where – that is part of it – where out of my confusion, disorder, I create authority. I am confused, I am disturbed, I want certainty. And you come along, the guru, the priest, the psychologist, the others, and they become the authority. I have created them out of my confusion, my disorder. So I realise as long as there is an authority subjectively, either the experience which I have had, the memory of that experience which becomes the authority – follow all this – or the authority of somebody who says, 'I know, I will tell you all about it.' The nasty, ugly gurus do all this, coining money. They are some of the most rich people in the world, your evangelists, the churches, the tremendous organisations, they say, have faith, believe, accept. And I am so frightened, I say yes. I am gullible, I accept it. So I am creating out of my disorder, authority. If there is order, there is no authority because I behave properly not according to a pattern.	所以，暴力之所以存在的原因 ——部分的原因—— 是因为我经由我的困惑与失序而创造出了权威。我是困惑的，我是焦虑不安的，我想要确定感。然后某人过来了，他是古鲁，他是牧师，他是心理学家，或者其他什么人，然后这些人就变成了权威。我经由我的困惑与失序创造出了他们。所以我意识到只要还是存在着某个权威，主观上的权威 ——要么是我曾有过的经验，那种经验的记忆已经变成了权威， ——请你们跟上我的话——或者是某个人的权威，他说： “我知道它，我将会告诉你关于它的一切。” 那些肮脏丑陋的古鲁会做所有这些事情，然后大发其财。他们是这个世界上最富有的一些人，你们的福音传教士，那些教会，那些规模惊人的组织机构，他们说：要有信仰，要深信不疑，要接受。而我是如此的恐惧，于是我说：好的。我很容易受骗上当，因此我接受了它。所以我经由我的混乱失序创造出了权威。如果存在秩序，那就不会有权威了，因为我会正确地去行动而不是根据某个模式而行动。
1:22:56	So, one of the causes of conflict, disorder, is psychological acceptance of authority. That means, can one live without a single ideal, a single authority, so that one lives in great order now, not tomorrow. And psychologically, there is disorder in our inward house, because we have separated ourself from another. It is one of the most difficult things to do, to say, there is no separation. I am the world. I am the rest of humanity. Because you suffer, the Russians suffer, the Hindus, Chinese, every human being on this earth suffers. I shed tears. And also laughter, of course. Every human being on this earth pursues every form of avoidance, every form of escape from fear, from sorrow. So, I am the world because I suffer, you suffer. This is not just ideological nonsense, this is actuality. So, as long as I separate from the rest of mankind, which is you, I must have conflict and disorder. We will go into that a little later, whether we have separate consciousness or consciousness of mankind.	所以，冲突和失序的原因之一就是那种对于权威的心理上的接受。那意味着：我们能否没有任何理想、没有任何权威地生活？由此我们便能够在此刻就井然有序地生活，而不是在明天。从心理上而言，我们内心的家中存在着失序，因为我们已经把我们自己和他人分离开来了。这是最困难的事情之一，当你能够说：并没有什么分别。我就是这个世界。我就是其余的人类。因为你在受苦，俄罗斯人也在受苦，印度人、中国人、这个地球上的每一个人都在受苦。我在流泪。当然了，我也会欢笑。这个地球上的每一个人都在追求各种形式的逃避，用各种方式来逃避恐惧、逃避痛苦。所以我就是这个世界，因为我会受苦，而你也会受苦。这并不只是意识形态上的胡扯，这是事实现状。所以，只要我还是与其他人是分离的 ——其他人就是你自己—— 我就必然会有冲突和失序。我们过一会儿将会来探讨它，我们是否已经分裂了意识或者人类的意识？
1:25:42	What time is it, sir?	现在几点了，先生？
1:25:44	A: It is five minutes to one.	听众：12点55分了。
1:25:48	K: I am sorry to have kept you so long. Somebody should tell us. So I will finish with this. Where there is separation in my thinking, I can separate thought from action. I think one thing, and say another thing, think one thing and act another way. That is separation, that breeds conflict, hypocrisy.	克：很抱歉花了你们这么长的时间。有人应该提醒一下我们时间。那么，就让我把它将讲讲完吧。只要我的思想中还是存在分裂，我可以把思想和行动分开，我想的是一套，说的又是另一套，想的是一套，做的又是另一套。这就是分裂，它滋生了冲突和虚伪。
1:26:41	So one can go into this question of conflict very, very deeply, and when you begin to understand the nature and structure and the way of its subtlety, as you watch it, the very watching without any choice, in that watching you will see that conflict ends. And that requires great attention to every thought, every action, every way of inward feeling. And if one wants to end that conflict, we have to give tremendous attention to it. Not casual attention, not one day or one week later, but keeping that attention moving all the time.	所以我们可以非常非常深入地去探究这个关于冲突的问题，而当你开始了解它的本质和结构，以及它微妙的方式后，当你观察它——那种观察本身是不带任何选择的，在那种观察中，你就会看到冲突结束了。这需要你强烈地去关注每一个念头，每一个行为，每一种内心的感受。而如果我们想要结束那种冲突，我们就必须给予它极大的关注。不是随意偶尔地关注一下，不是一天以后或一周以后再去关注它，而是一直保持那种关注的活跃度，
1:28:05	Will you kindly get up – it is finished.	请你们都起来吧——今天的演讲结束了。