克里希那穆提 - 延续的终结

Krishnamurti Subtitles

OJ85T4 - 延续的终结
美国加利福尼亚州欧亥
第四次公开演讲
1985年5月19日

0:24	Krishnamurti: One hopes that you haven't come out of curiosity. In spite of the articles that have appeared in magazines and newspapers, they are just words. Don't be enticed by those words – if one may suggest. Please, don't be impressed by the reputation, by the age, by all that has been written and talked about. Because we are talking over together, not that the speaker is important. The personality has no value at all in this world. But what we are going to talk over together has importance. And as the world is in such a state, we ought to be serious. We ought to be quite earnest about what we think, why we think, what our prejudices are, why we belong to a particular sect or group, why we have certain ideologies, why do we pursue what merely pleases us, what we like and dislike, what appeals to us, what is attractive to us.	克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：某人希望你们并不是出于好奇心才来这里的。尽管那些杂志和报纸上刊登了（关于我）的文章，但它们只不过是一些文字罢了。不要被这些文字所引诱 ——如果允许某人建议下的话，请你们不要被演讲者的名声、年纪，被所有那些人们所写的东西，和他们所说的话所打动。因为我们是一起在讨论它，演讲者并不重要。名人身份在这个世界上是没有任何价值的。但我们将要一起来讨论的那些东西却是很重要的。由于这个世界正处于如此的境地中，所以我们应该要严肃一点，我们应该非常认真地对待我们所想的东西，为什么我们会这样想？我们的偏见是什么？为什么我们要归属于特定的教派或者团体？为什么我们要持有特定的意识形态？为什么我们只追求那些让我们愉悦的东西？我们喜欢什么，厌恶什么？什么东西引诱了我们？什么东西对我们有吸引力？
2:58	If we could this morning at least, for an hour or so, if we could put aside all that, which is quite arduous, because we only function in the particular routine, according to our opinions, judgements, evaluations. Which may be right or wrong, but we never question them. We never question our beliefs, our ideals, our faith, why we have all this. And one thinks it is important especially not to be persuaded by the speaker, not to be impressed. This is not a gathering which will stimulate you, excite you intellectually, emotionally or ideologically. For the speaker this is very important, to look at all this travail and sorrow of mankind. If we are here together, to be very honest to ourselves, there is no self-deception, no coming to any definite conclusion, but investigating, moving, going further. Then we can talk over things together. Not merely listen to the speaker, collect a few ideas, or agree or disagree, but we could this morning put aside agreement and disagreement altogether from our life, at least even for this morning. Then we can converse together like two friends, walking along a nice wooded path, talking over their problems, not persuading each other, because they are friends, they have known each other for some time. Either those friends are casual, or real friends. If they are real friends in the deepest sense of that word, then there is no barrier between them. They can talk about their intimate problems, their crises – not only economic, social, and religious or political, but the crisis in their consciousness, crisis in their lives. And to talk over these things, they must be free. And freedom is very important. Not the freedom to do what you like, which is what we are all doing, because each one wants to express himself, fulfil himself, be somebody – you know, all that self-interest that is going on in the world, whether in the name of God, in the name of church, in the name of politics, and so on.	如果我们可以——至少在今天早上，在这一个小时左右的时间里—— 如果我们可以将所有这些东西放在一边 ——这是相当困难的，因为我们都只会在特定的惯例程序中运作 ——这种惯例程序是根据我们的个人观点、判断和评价而来的。那些观点、判断、评价也许正确，也许错误，但我们从未去质疑过它们。我们从未质疑过自己的信仰、理想和信念，问问为什么我们会有这些东西？而某人认为，尤其重要的一点就是：请不要被演讲者说服，不要被他感动。这并不是一场刺激你们、让你们兴奋不已的集会，给你们带来一些思想智力上、情感上，或意识形态上的兴奋刺激。对演讲者来说，这一点很重要：那就是我们要去观察人类所有的劳苦和苦难。如果我们在这里能够一起对我们自己保持完全的诚实，没有自我欺骗，也不妄下定论，而是去探究，前行，逐步深入。那么我们便可以一起来讨论那些东西了。不仅仅是听演讲者讲话，收集一些思想观念，表示同意或不同意，而是今天早上，我们可以将那些同意或不同意完全地扔出我们的生活，哪怕只是在今天早上。那样我们就可以一起谈话了，就像两个朋友，走在一条优雅的、树木繁茂的林间小道上，一起讨论他们的问题，不是要去说服对方，因为他们是朋友，他们已经彼此认识有一段时间了。要么这两位朋友只是萍水之交，要么他们是真正的朋友。如果他们是真正的朋友，深刻意义上的朋友，那么他们两人之间就不会有阻碍了。他们可以谈论自己最私人的问题，他们遇到的危机 ——不仅仅是经济的、社会的、宗教的或政治的危机，也包括他们思想意识中的危机，他们生活中的危机。而要谈论所有这些东西，他们必须是自由的。自由是非常重要的。不是那种随心所欲、为所欲为的自由 ——虽然这正是我们所有人在做的事，因为每一个人都想要表达他自己，实现他自己，成为某号人物 ——你知道的，所有那些正在这个世界里发生着的自私之事，不管是以上帝的名义，以教会的名义，以政治的名义，还是其他什么名义。
7:20	So we should enquire this morning, amongst other things, because we are going to discuss, as we have during the last three talks, and question and answer meetings, we have discussed various aspects of our life – the conflict, our daily conflict with each other, and daily conflict in oneself, and the terrible things that are happening in the world. They are really terrible, appalling. If you have been in some of these countries, you come directly into contact with all this. Not read through newspapers and magazines and political speeches. The world is in a really grave crisis. We seem to be indifferent to it. And man has been appallingly cruel to other men, which is, war, concentration camps, which are still going on, holocaust, not only during the last war, but this torturing human beings, confining them to concentration camps, killing them for ideologies by the million – not just six million of a particular group of people. China, Russia have killed millions. We are indifferent to all this.	所以我们今天早上应该来探询一些其他的东西，因为我们将要来讨论各种主题 ——就像我们在之前的三次演讲，以及问答会上所做的那样，我们讨论了我们生活的各个方面 ——冲突，我们日常生活中彼此间的冲突，日常生活中我们内心的冲突，以及这个世界上正在发生着的可怕的事情。这些事情真的很可怕，令人震惊。如果你曾经去过这其中的一些国家的话，你会直接感知接触到那一切。不是通过阅读报纸和杂志，或者那些政治演讲。这个世界正处于非常严重的危机之中。而我们似乎对此漠不关心。而一直以来，人类对他同伴的残忍令人发指，比如战争、集中营，这些事情至今仍在发生着，还有大屠杀，不只是上一次世界大战发生的大屠杀，它也是那种对人类的痛苦折磨，把人们监禁在集中营里，因为意识形态而杀死数百万人 ——屠杀的并不只是那某个群体的六百万人，中国、俄罗斯也杀死了数百万人。然而我们对这一切显得漠不关心。
9:40	And as human beings we have evolved millennia upon millennia, we are still what we are, what we have been – slightly sophisticated, slightly good mannered, slightly better-fed, clothed, all the outside medieval dresses of the priests. But inwardly we are what we have been, rather brutal, cruel, self-interest. We are talking this over together. The speaker is not telling anything new. We will go into what is new and what is creation a little later. But these are obvious facts – millions are starving, poverty is on the increase, overpopulated earth. You ought to go and see some of all this. Then you will not merely be concerned with your own personal interests. And man, human beings, have always sought freedom. That has been one of their racial, religious, economic and social – that they should be free. And that freedom has been abused in the democratic world. Which is that we are all separate individuals to do exactly what we want to do. Nobody must hinder, nobody must restrain us. That is what we all want to do. And that is what is happening the world over, except in the totalitarian world, they are subjugated by the elite, told what to do, what to think, what to paint, what kind of literature, what kind of music, and so on. We are just pointing out all this, we are not taking sides. If one understands all this, not merely verbally, but understands within one's heart and depth of one's being, then we will act. Observing and acting are the same. They are not two separate activities.	作为人类，我们已经进化发展了成千上万年了，然而我们仍然是老样子，和过去一模一样 ——稍微老练世故了一点，稍微有礼貌了一点，吃得稍微好了点，穿得稍微好了点，所有这些外在的东西，牧师们穿上了仿中世纪的服装。然而内在，我们仍旧和以前一样，相当的野蛮、残忍、自私自利。我们正在一起讨论它们。演讲者并没有在说什么新的东西。我们稍后会来探讨下什么是崭新的事物，什么是创造。然而这些都是显而易见的事实 ——数百万人正在挨饿，贫穷正在蔓延增长，地球上人口过剩。你应该去看看这些事情。然后你就不再会只关心你自己个人的利益。而人们，人类，他们一直在追寻自由。这已经成为了他们种族、宗教、经济和社会的诉求之一 ——即他们应该获得自由。而这种自由已经在民主世界里被滥用了。因为我们都成了彼此分离独立的个体，可以做任何我们想做的事情。绝不能有人来干涉我们，绝不能有人来约束我们。这就是我们所有人想做的事情。而这样的事情正在全世界发生着，除了在那些极权主义者的世界里，在那里，人们必须要服从于精英阶层，精英们会告诉人们该做些什么，该想些什么，该画些什么，该看些什么文学作品，欣赏什么样的音乐等等。我们只是指出了所有这些事实，我们并没有在偏袒任何一方。如果我们理解了所有这些，不仅仅是口头上理解，而是在自己内心，用自己的存在深刻理解了它，那么我们就会行动起来了。观察和行动是同一回事。它们并不是两种分离独立的活动。
13:19	So we have talked about, during the last three talks, conflict, psychological wounds with their consequences, guilt, probably every human being goes through or holds something that has to be held. We have talked about fear. And yesterday morning we talked about, together, sorrow and the ending of sorrow, and what is love, compassion – which has nothing whatsoever to do with kindliness, with pity, with prayers, devotion. All that has nothing whatsoever to do with love and compassion, which has its own intelligence. We were talking about it together yesterday morning.	我们已经在之前的三次演讲中谈论了冲突、心理上的创伤及其后果，负罪感，它们可能是每个人都经历过的，或者说他们都背负着这些不得不背负的东西。我们也谈论了恐惧。而昨天早上，我们一起讨论了苦（sorrow），以及苦的终结，谈论了什么是爱和慈悲？爱和慈悲与友善、同情、祈祷和虔诚没有任何的关系。所有这些东西与爱和慈悲毫无关系，爱和慈悲有着它自己的智慧。我们昨天早上已经一起讨论了它。
14:44	And this morning we ought to talk over together – please bear that in mind all the time if you will, that we are talking over together. The speaker is not telling you what to think, but what is thinking, not what to think – the right thought, wrong thought, noble thought, ignoble thought, the ideological thought, dialectical thought, all that is still thinking. Put it in any framework, in any cadre, it is still thinking. Whether it be the thinking of the right or the extreme left or the extreme right or the extreme centre, it is still thinking. Thinking has brought about enormous good to man. Thinking has produced great technology. Thinking has produced medicine, surgery. Thinking also has produced terrible wars, brutal, appalling cruelties. So what we are talking about is what is thinking, not how to think, or thinking together. When we understand the nature of thinking, not merely verbally or intellectually, but understand the quality of thinking, the source of thinking, really when we grasp it then we can go much further. But merely to remain in the realm of thinking – clever lawyers, shady lawyers, they all think, whether it is the hermit, whether it is the monk, whether you are related to your wife and the recognition, all that is the movement of thought. Either we think together and therefore form a clique, or belonging together to some ideological state, thinking together to become Catholic, Protestant, and all the divisions of Christianity. I don't know if you have noticed in this little village there must be dozen churches. Oh, I don't know the number, one has never counted them. But it is still thinking.	而今天早上，我们应该一起来讨论一下 ——如果可以的话，请你们一直牢记这一点—— 那就是，我们是在一起讨论它。演讲者并没有在告诉你要思考些什么，他在告诉你什么是思考，而不是要思考些什么 ——他没有谈论正确的思想或错误的思想、高尚的想法或卑鄙的想法，那些意识形态的思想，那些辩证法的的思想，所有这些仍旧是思考。你可以将它置于任何框架、任何结构之中，但它仍然是思考。不管它是右派的思考，还是极左派的思考、极右派的思考，或者完全中间派的思考，它都仍旧是思考。思考给人类带来了极大的益处。思考带来了不可思议的科学技术。思考带来了医学和外科手术。然而思考也带来了可怕的战争，那些野蛮和骇人的暴行。所以，我们正在讨论什么是思考？而不是如何思考，或者集体性的思考。当我们理解了思考的本质，不仅仅是口头上或者智力上理解，而是了解了思考的性质，思考的源头，当我们真正地领悟它以后，我们就可以走得更远了。然而仅仅是停留在思考的领域中 ——就像那些精明的律师，臭名昭著的律师，他们都会思考，不管是隐士的思考，僧侣的思考，还是说你和妻子建立关系，并认可那种关系，所有这些都是思想的运动。我们要么是拥有共同的思考，从而形成了一个圈子，或者我们都会归属于某种意识形态，共同的思考演变为了天主教、新教，和所有那些基督教的分支教派。我不知道你是否注意到，哪怕在这个小村子里，也一定会有十几个教会。哦，我不知道具体数字，某人并没有去数过它们。但它仍旧是思考。
18:31	And as we went into that question, what is thinking – we won't go into it now. If you are interested in it, you can read or think about it, but it is fairly simple, not complicated. That is, all our thinking is based on memory. All our thinking is based on knowledge. Whatever that knowledge be, whether it is great knowledge, accumulated knowledge, or the knowledge of a human being who is totally ignorant, doesn't know how to read or write, living in a little hamlet, poverty-ridden shack, he is still thinking.	当我们去探究这个问题：什么是思考？我们现在就不来探究它了。如果你对此有兴趣，你可以去阅读关于它的东西或者思索它，但这是相当简单的，它并不复杂。也就是说，我们所有的思考都是建立在记忆之上的。我们所有的思考都是建立在知识之上的。不管那是什么样的知识，它可能是伟大的知识、可能是你积累起来的知识，或者也可能是那个完全无知愚昧之人的知识 ——虽然那个人不会读书写字，生活在一个小村庄的棚屋里，一贫如洗，但他也会去思考。
19:31	So thinking is based on experience, and experience is always limited, therefore knowledge is always limited, now or in the future or in the past. And our memories are also limited, because they are all based on knowledge and experience. So thinking is always, always in the future or in the present or in the past, it is limited. Where there is limitation there must be conflict. If one is thinking about oneself all the time, as most people do – how they look, how they walk, how they behave, to what kind of religion they belong, what is their faith – and so on, thinking endlessly about themselves or about their ideas and so on. So thinking has divided mankind – Americans, Russians, Asiatics, Indians, Far East, Near East, Jew, Arab, and so on. So wherever there is limited thought – and thought is always limited – there must be conflict, either physical conflict or intellectual conflict or ideological conflict or conflict between man and woman – which is going on now.	所以思考是建立在经验之上的，而经验永远都是局限的，因此知识也总是局限的 ——不管是现在、未来还是过去，知识永远是局限的。因此我们的记忆也是局限的，因为它们全都是建立在知识和经验之上的。所以思考永远都是永远都是，不管是未来的思考、现在的思考，还是过去的思考，它永远都是局限的。而当有了局限，就必定会有冲突。如果一个人一直想着他自己的事情 ——大多数人都是如此，他们的样子如何，他们该怎么走，他们该如何行动，他们要属于哪一个宗教，他们要有怎样的信仰——等等这些，一直不停地考虑自己的事情，或者自己的想法，等等。所以思考已经分裂了人类 ——美国人、俄罗斯人、亚洲人、印度人，远东地区的人，近东地区的人，犹太人、阿拉伯人，等等。所以当有了局限的思想 ——思想永远都是局限的——那就必然会有冲突，要么是生理上的冲突，要么是思想上的冲突，要么是意识形态的冲突，要么就是男人和女人之间的冲突——这就是如今正在发生的事情。
21:17	So we must ask at the end of the day, observing all this, what is freedom? Can there ever be complete, unbroken freedom? The word 'freedom' also means not only to act freely, to think freely, but also that word contains, originally, love. Freedom also means compassion. And we have made that freedom – which is a most extraordinary thing, so absolutely necessary for human beings – into a very, very small affair. That is each one wants to do exactly what he wants, or what he thinks he should have. And that limits the immense freedom implied in that word. Freedom is not from something, from my complex or from my prejudice, all that is rather childish. Forgive me for using that word. Freedom implies the end of total – not only attachment, that is again an attribute of one's ego, the absence of the 'me' – the absence totally of self-interest. Let's talk it over together.	所以在一天快要结束的时候，在观察过了这一切之后，我们必须问一下：什么是自由？是否可能有那种彻底的、完整的自由？ “自由”这个词同样意味着 ——它不仅仅意味着自由地行动，自由地思考，这个词同样也包含了——它的原始意义——也包含了爱。自由也意味着慈悲。然而我们却已经把自由 ——自由本该是最非凡的事物，它是人类必不可少的东西—— 我们却把它变成了非常非常渺小的事情。那就是，每个人都想要随心所欲地做任何他想要做的事，或者拥有他认为自己应该拥有的事物。而这就局限了 “自由”这个词中所隐含的那种巨大无限的自由。自由并不是摆脱某个事物的自由，摆脱掉我复杂的问题，或者摆脱掉我的偏见，所有这些都太幼稚了。请原谅我用“幼稚”这个词。自由意味着结束掉一切的不只是一切执著依赖 ——结束执著依赖同样也是自我的特定行为—— 而是没有了“我” ——完全没有了自私自利。让我们一起来探讨下它吧。
23:50	And we are going to talk over together this morning, as we did the previous day, why do we live in disorder? Because we are going to talk over together, death. As we said yesterday morning, we are going to talk about it. It is not a morbid subject. It is not something to be avoided. It is not something that concerns old people. It concerns from the moment you are born till you die. It is the inevitable lot of all of us. That is one certainty. There may be no other certainty, no other finality. But death is facing each one of us. We are going to talk about it presently. But to understand that, the immense significance death, not the fear of it or how to get over, how to meet death pleasantly as books are being written about it. Lovely idea, isn't it? How to be happy to die. So we are going to talk about it.	而今天早上，我们也要来一起讨论下 ——就像我们昨天所做的那样—— 来讨论一下：为什么我们要生活在混乱中？因为我们将会一起来探讨下死亡。昨天上午我们说过的，我们今天要来谈一下死亡。死亡并不是一个病态恐怖的话题。它并不是某种我们需要回避的东西。它并不是只和老年人有关。从你出生那一刻起直到你死去，死亡都是和你息息相关的。这是我们所有人必然的命运。它是确定无疑的。除了死亡，也许就没有其他必然之事或必然的结局了。我们每个人都面临着死亡。我们马上就会来谈论一下死亡。然而，要了解它，了解死亡的巨大意义，不是它所带来的恐惧，或者如何熬过死亡，如何愉快地面对死亡？很多书都是讨论这个的。很美好的想法，不是吗？如何快乐地死去？所以我们将会来讨论一下它。
25:29	But before we do, we ought to find out for ourselves, because it may be related, please quietly listen to it. We are talking over together amicably, not persuading you in any direction nor giving you comfort, nor saying, yes, there is something beyond death. Those games have been played by every religion, by every guru, by every crook. Please don't laugh, this is much too serious – not we shouldn't have humour, it is good to laugh, but laughter may be the means of avoiding facing facts. So one has to be aware of that. Not that we shouldn't have humour, laugh with all your being at a good joke. The speaker has collected a lot of jokes – not vulgar jokes, but good jokes. But the speaker won't go into it.	但是在我们讨论它之前，我们也应该自己去发现因为那也许是息息相关的，请安静地听好。我们正在一起友好地讨论它，而不是在说服你任何方面的事情，也不是在给你安慰，我们不会说：是的，存在着某种超越死亡的事物。每一个宗教、每一个古鲁、每一个骗子一直在玩这类游戏。请不要笑，这件事是极其严肃的 ——并不是说我们不该有幽默感，欢笑是好事，但是笑声也可以用来作为回避面对事实的手段。所以我们必须要对此有所觉察。不是说我们不该有幽默感，你可以全身心地去为一个精彩的笑话而欢笑。演讲者已经收集了很多的笑话 ——不是那些低俗的笑话，而是真正的好笑话。但演讲者现在就不讲这些笑话了。
27:06	So we must first consider, as we have in the past – we must go into it a little more – why is it human beings, to whatever race, cult, group and so on, why do they live in disorder? What is the reason, what is the cause, the root of disorder? We are asking each other this question. Don't please wait for the speaker to answer the question, because you are responsible for the question. And you are responsible to find out why we accept disorder. Throughout the world politically, religiously, economically and socially, there is such vast disorder in the world. War is the ultimate disorder. So what is the root of disorder? Have we ever questioned it? Or are you merely out of disorder, living in disorder, try to find order? You understand my question? A disordered brain cannot find order. Right? It seems so normal, sane. If I am confused, uncertain, caught in the boredom of life and boredom of doing things over and over again, whether it be sexual act, whether it be ideological – our brains have become so mechanical because we have been computerised by the specialists. Sorry, there are some specialists here. We have been computerised, programmed by the religions to believe this and not to believe that.	所以我们必须首先仔细思考下 ——就像我们在过去所做的那样，我们必须要更深入一些—— 那就是：为什么人类 ——不管他属于什么种族、信仰、团体，等等，为什么人类会生活在混乱之中？造成混乱的原因、源头和根源是什么？我们在互相问对方这个问题。所以请不要等待演讲者来回答它，因为你也有责任回答这个问题。你有责任去搞清楚它：为什么我们接受了混乱？纵观全球，无论是政治上、宗教上、经济上还是社会上，都有着如此巨大的混乱。而战争则是最终极的混乱。所以混乱的根源是什么？我们可曾问过这个问题？还是说你仅仅是经由混乱，你生活在混乱之中，然后试图去找到秩序？你明白我的问题吗？一个混乱失序的大脑是无法找到秩序的。对吧？这个论断看起来是很正常且合乎情理的。如果我是困惑的、不确定的，陷入于生活的烦恼无聊之中，一遍又一遍地重复做着那些令人厌倦的事情，不管是性行为，还是意识形态上的事情 ——我们的大脑已经变得如此的机械化，因为我们已经被那些专家们变成了电脑。对不起，这里也有一些专家。我们已经被那些宗教变成了电脑，被设定了程序，要去相信这个，而不要相信那个。
29:56	So, I am asking, we are asking each other, is the cause of disorder in ourselves, in our brain, is the cause, one of the causes – we are going to look at it, not say this is the one cause or there are many causes. We have to find out the real cause of it, not the multiple causes or causations. What is that? Why we live in disorder, which we have to face. If you don't want to face it, don't face it, it doesn't matter. But if we are honest, if you want to find out the causation of disorder, we have to enquire, not be prejudiced, not blame somebody for the disorder, or the society in which we live. The society in which we live, we have made it – grandfathers, great, great, great grandfathers. And we are making the society through our greed, through our ambition, through our aggression, through our self-interest and so on. This is the society which we have created, the religious differences, national differences, and so on. Because our brains are fragmented, it is not whole, active completely. It is broken up inwardly, through desire, through pleasure, through aggression and violence and so on. It is never holistic. Is that one of the causes of disorder? Are you following this? Because our brains have been so conditioned, have been so programmed, which is the right word, like a computer. And so it thinks along a particular line, acts according to its faith, to its experience. Is that the cause of our disorder? I mean, we are examining, we are observing, questioning, not analysing.	所以我正在问，我们正在互相问对方，混乱的原因这个原因存在于我们内心、大脑中那个原因，它是其中一个原因 ——我们将会来看一下它，不是说只有这一个原因，或者说有很多的原因。我们必须要去发现混乱真正的原因，而不是多重原因或者多个原因。那个原因是什么呢？为什么我们会生活在混乱之中，我们必须要去面对混乱。但如果你不想去面对它，那就别去面对它，这并没有什么关系。但如果我们是诚实的，如果你们想要找出导致混乱的原因，那么我们必须去探询它，不要有偏见，不要去责怪是别人带来了混乱，或责怪我们所生活的社会。这个我们所生活的社会，是我们自己造成的 ——我们的祖父，以及曾、曾、曾祖父，创造出了这个社会。而我们也正在通过我们的贪婪、野心、侵略性、自私自利等等，而塑造着这个社会。这是我们创造出来的社会，那些宗教的区分、国家的区分，等等。因为我们的大脑是支离破碎的，它并不是完整的，它没有整体性的活动。它的内在是四分五裂的，欲望、快感、侵略好斗和暴力等等造成了这种分裂。大脑从来都不是整体性的。这是导致混乱的原因之一吗？你理解它了吗？因为我们的大脑已经受到了如此的局限，它变得如此的程序化（programmed），用“程序化”这个词比较合适，它变得像是一台电脑。它会沿着特定的路线去思考，根据它的信仰、经验去行动。这是我们混乱的原因吗？我的意思是，我们正在检视它，我们正在观察和质疑，我们不是在分析。
33:09	May we go into that a little bit? We said not self-analysis or analysed by the experts. Analysis implies to analyse, break it up. And who is it that is analysing? You understand my question? I am asking you, who is it that is analysing not only the political, religious and so on, but self-analysis, self-delusion – say, I must not be deluded, I must be honest. So we are asking, saying it is not analysis because the analyser who says, 'I will analyse' is the analysed. There is no difference – please listen to this – there is no difference between the analysed and the analyser. They are the same. See the common sense, the rationality of it. But we have separated the analyser and the analysed, or rather the thing to be analysed. So there is conflict between the analyser and the thing to be analysed. But if they are one, as they are, then the whole problem becomes quite different. There is no thinker apart from thinking. Right? The thought makes the thinker. But the thinker says to himself, I am separate from thought, therefore I can control thought. You understand? If you once understand really, conflict has a different meaning altogether.	我们可以稍微来谈谈它（分析）吗？我们说过不要去自我分析，也不要让专家来分析我们。分析（Analysis）意味着去剖析（analyse），去把它拆解成很多部分。那么是谁在分析呢？你理解我的问题吗？我正在问你：那个在分析的人是谁？不仅是分析政治、宗教等等的事情，也包括那种自我分析，自我欺骗——说，我绝不能受骗上当，我必须要诚实。所以我们正在问，我们说，这不是分析，因为那个说“我会去分析”的分析者，他就是那个被分析者。他们之间并没有区分——请听好—— 被分析者和分析者之间并没有区别。他们是同一个东西。请看到这个论断的常识性与合理性。然而我们已经把分析者和被分析者分开了 ——或者更确切地说，是那个被分析的事物。因此在分析者和被分析的事物之间便有了冲突。可如果他们是同一个东西——事实就是如此，那么整个问题就变得截然不同了。并不存在脱离思考的思考者。对吧？是思想造就了思考者。但是思考者却对他自己说，我和思想是分开的，所以我可以控制思想。你理解了吗？一旦你真正理解了它，冲突便会具有完全不同的意义了。
35:37	So we are not analysing. There is only observation, not the entity who observes. Right? There is only observing things as they are. But the moment we say, I must look very carefully, am I looking rightly, is this right, is this wrong, – you are analysing, separating the observer from the observed. Of course you are not the tree. I hope not. But when you observe these oaks, observe them without using the word I like, dislike, it is nice, it is not nice, etc. Therefore there is only observation, And that very clear observation without any bias, prejudice, etc., that very observation is action. We will go into that. So we are observing. Observing our disorder in our daily life, the boredom of it, the tiredness, the mechanical part of it, and so on.	所以我们并不是在分析。存在的只有观察，而没有那个在观察的人。对吗？存在的只有对事物的如实观察。然而当我们说：我必须要非常小心仔细地看，我是否在正确地观察？这是对的吗？这是错的吗？那么你就是在分析了，你正在把观察者和被观察物分开。当然了，你不是你在观察的树。我希望不是。但是，当你观察这些橡树时，请你观察它们而不要使用诸如“我喜欢”、“我不喜欢”、 “它很漂亮”，“它不漂亮”等等这类字眼。那样的话，存在的就只有观察，那种观察是一清二楚的，它没有任何偏见、成见等等，那种观察本身就是行动。我们将会来探究这一点。所以我们正在观察。观察我们日常生活的混乱，它的烦恼无聊，它令人疲倦的地方，以及它机械化的部分，等等。
37:07	So, is disorder caused by this division in oneself? I must be good, I am violent, but one day I will be free from violence. I am greedy, cruel, but one day I will be... that is, the entity who says I am different from the quality, then he has to come into conflict with the quality. But the quality is you. You understand this? If you really understand this in depth, then you eliminate conflict altogether, which is the cause of disorder. I wonder if you understand this. Look, I am not different from my quality, from my greed. But I have said, it has been my conditioning, greed is something outside or inside which I must control. Or I yield to greed. But the actual fact is greed is me. I am not different from greed. You have understood this?	所以，混乱是不是由我们内心的这种分裂所引起的？我必须要做个好人，我是暴力的，然而有朝一日，我将会摆脱掉暴力。我是贪婪的、残忍的，但总有一天我会变得也就是，那个人说：我是有别于那种品性的，然后他就必然会与那种品性发生冲突。然而那种品性就是你。你理解了吗？如果你真正深刻地理解了这一点，那么你就可以完全消除掉冲突了 ——而冲突就是造成混乱的原因。我不知道你们是否理解了这点。你瞧，我和我的品性、我和我的贪婪并无不同。然而我却说：它是我的局限所在，贪婪是某种我外在或内在的事物，而我必须要控制它，或者我会顺应它。可事实是，我就是贪婪。我和贪婪并没有什么不同。你明白它了吗？
38:44	So this division, psychological division in each one of us may be one of the major causes of disorder. Sir, you understand this? I wish you would. It is not an intellectual feat. It is not something that you say, well, I will cultivate it. Just see it as a fact. That as long as there is division psychologically in me – I am different from my quality, I am different from my word, I am different from my image, I am different from violence – that difference brings about conflict and conflict may be the root of disorder. Right? And when there is no separation as the actor and the thing acting, but they are the same and one, inseparable, then if that is real, true, honest, actual, then conflict ceases and a totally different movement takes place.	所以这种分裂，我们每个人的心理上的分裂，它也许就是造成混乱的主要原因之一。先生，你理解这点了吗？我希望你理解了。这并不是一种智力上的技巧。它并不是某种你说“哦，我要去培养它”的东西。你只需要看清这个事实即可。那就是，只要我还是有着心理上的分裂 ——我和我的品性是不同的，我和我的话语是不同的，我和我的意象是不同的，我和暴力是不同的—— 那么这种分别就会带来冲突，而冲突也许就是造成混乱的根源。对吗？然而，如果没有了这种行动者和他所做之事的分别 ——他们是同一个东西，是不可分割的—— 如果这一点是真实的、正确的、实实在在的、符合事实的，那么冲突就会止息，然后一种截然不同的运动就会发生了。
40:28	So one of the causes of disorder is the separation between nationalities, religions, the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Christians, you know all that division that goes on in this world. When there is the cessation of disorder, then order is natural, it is not something cultivated, it is not something that you repeat day after day, day after day. It comes naturally, easily, freely. And bearing this in mind, that conflict is the essence of disorder, between man and woman, between God and man – if there is God – between the good and the bad. Be careful please, there is a division. The good is not rooted in the bad. The good has no roots in the bad. You understand this? Good is not the opposite of the bad. If the good has a relationship with the bad, the good is still limited by the bad. Right? You understand this? Come on sirs, move. The opposite, that is, violence and its opposite is non-violence. If the good is born out of the understanding of non-violence then it is not the good. Good has no relationship with the bad. This is the actual fact.	所以，造成混乱的原因之一便是那种国家的划分与宗教的划分，印度教徒、佛教徒、基督教徒，你们都知道所有这些世界上正在发生着的分裂。然而当混乱止息，秩序自然就会出现了，它并不是某种培养出来的东西，它并不是某种需要你日复一日，每天不断去重复的东西。它自然地、轻松地、自由地出现了。请牢记这一点，即冲突就是混乱的本质，男人和女人之间的冲突，上帝和人类之间的冲突 ——如果存在上帝的话—— 善与恶之间的冲突。请注意，善恶之间就有着一种分裂。善并不是根植于恶之中的。善的根源并不在恶之中。你理解这点了吗？善并不是恶的反面。如果善与恶有了关系，那么善仍旧是被恶所制约的。对吧？你明白它了吗？加油啊，先生们，动起来。那个反面，换句话说，暴力和它的反面，也就是非暴力（non-violence）。如果善来自于对非暴力的理解，那么它就不是善了。因为善和恶并没有关系。这是千真万确的事实。
42:48	So, let's talk about death. Because there is still to talk about – after death – what is religion. What is it that man from time beyond time, what is it man has sought apart from physical comfort, physical pain, psychological anxiety and so on, he said, there must be something beyond all this ugly brutality and vulgarity. There must be something that is not put together by thought. There must be something that is immense, nameless. We are going to find out. We are going to observe and learn about it together. So there are many, many things to be covered this morning and one hopes that you will have the patience, the energy, the vitality to attend to all this.	好了，让我们来谈谈死亡吧。因为在谈完死亡以后，我们还要来谈谈什么是宗教。从无限遥远的时代开始，人类一直在寻找的那个东西是什么？他们说：除了身体上的舒适，身体上的痛苦，心理上的焦虑等等这些东西之外，必定还存在着某种超越所有这些丑陋暴行和庸俗的事物。一定存在着某种并非由思想所拼凑起来的事物。必定还有着某个巨大无限的、不可名状的事物。我们将会来发现它。我们将会一起来观察它，学习了解它。所以今天早上，我们要谈很多很多的东西，某人希望你们能有耐心、有能量与活力可以参与进来。
44:10	Death is something that is common to all of us. So, in talking over together about this subject, which is of extraordinary significance – death is not a sensation. You understand? It is not something to be cried over, something to be remembered, avoided, something that you put on the mantelpiece and worship. It is an immense act. So we are going to talk over that together. Man has always been frightened of death. That is a fact. Why? What does death mean? Not what lies beyond death, we will go into that presently. It is something extraordinary to die. Not something to be avoided, you can't avoid it. One may die when one is very young, through some disease, through some accident, through the parent's fault, over-drinking, smoking, you know, the whole business of this ugly society. And there is death for old age – through accident, disease, senility and so on. So together we are going to enquire into it. Together – please bear this in mind all the time. We are going to give your energy to find out the significance, the depth of that extraordinary event.	死亡是我们所有人共有的事物。所以，在一起讨论这个主题的过程中 ——这个主题具有非凡的意义，死亡并不是一种感官感受。你能理解吗？它不是一种你为之哭泣，一种你需要去纪念、需要去回避、需要把它放在壁炉台上崇拜的事物。它是一种巨大无限的行动。所以我们将会来一起讨论它。人类一直以来都畏惧死亡。这是一个事实。为什么？死亡意味着什么呢？不是死亡之后还会有什么 ——这个我们待会儿再来讲，死去是一件非凡之事。它并不是你要去回避的东西，你是无法回避掉死亡的。一个人也许在非常年轻的时候就死去了，可能是因为疾病，因为事故意外，因为父母的过失，过量饮酒，抽烟，你们知道的，这个丑陋社会中的所有这些事情。而年老之人也会死去 ——因为事故、疾病、衰老等等原因。所以我们会一起来探询它。是我们一起 ——请始终牢记这一点。我们将会给予你能量精力，去发现死亡这件非凡之事的意义，和它的深度。
46:41	There are two things implied in it, basically. A continuity, and the ending of a continuity. We have lived 40, 50, 90, 120 years, whatever the length of time it be, and during that long interval from birth to death we have acquired so many things. Not only physical things – cars, houses, if you are lucky, a field, about half an acre, and you have acquired knowledge, experience. You have collected lots of memories, lots of experience. You have collected, gathered both outwardly and psychologically. You don't want to be deprived of what you have collected, what you have remembered, what you have suffered. So we want, and we have, a long continuity. Racial inheritance, collective limited experiences. We are gathering squirrels. Right? And to what we have gathered we are attached, tremendously. And that is a continuity. It may be a ten day continuity or 100 years continuity. The continuity of tradition, the continuity of identification with a race, with a group, with a family. You understand? This desire, this urge to continue, not only in myself but the inherited collection. If I die, there is my son to continue. He inherits what I have collected physically, and also psychologically.	死亡之中主要包含了两个东西。一个是延续，另一个是延续的结束。我们活了40年、50年、90年、120年，无论我们活了多久，而在这个从出生到死亡的漫长的时间段里，我们获得了如此多的东西。不仅仅是物质方面的事物 ——汽车、房子，如果你够幸运的话，得到一块土地，大约半英亩的土地，然后，你也会获得知识和经验。你已经聚积了很多的记忆、很多的经验。你已经收集了它们，聚集了它们 ——既包括外在的事物，也包括心理上的事物。你不想被夺去那些你已经收集的东西，那些你已经记住的东西，那些你曾经遭受过的事情。所以我们想要，并且我们也有了一个漫长的延续。种族的遗传继承，集体的局限的经验。我们就像收集坚果的松鼠。对吗？然后我们会无比地执著于那些我们所收集的东西。这就是一种延续。这种延续也许为期十天，也许是一百年的延续。延续传统，延续我们与某个种族、团体或家庭的认同。你理解了吗？这种想要延续的欲望和冲动，不仅是我自己的延续，也包括那群遗传继承我的人。如果我死了，我的儿子会作为我的延续。他继承了我所收集积累的物质上的事物，和心理上的事物。
49:42	So there is this long, centuries and centuries upon centuries of collecting and continuity. Right? Death comes along, which is, the organism withers. Either we have used it sanely, rationally, healthily, or misused it through various drugs, etc. So, the organism inevitably comes to an end. The ending is death. Right? So we must consider what does it mean to end. You understand? Continuity and the ending. We are together? We are talking over together? This is a conversation between you and the speaker. So there is this continuity which you cling to, and there is the ending of that continuity. So we have understood, I hope, what it means to continue. And so we say, I will die, but the next life there is something, I will live next life. There will be next life. That is the whole Asiatic, Pythagorean, and some western people, ancient people, saying there must be. And the whole of the East more or less believes in rebirth because they want to continue. They have never asked – some have asked, the ancient people – what is it that continues? Is there a continuity at all? Are you asking all this? No, you are not. I am asking you. God's sake. Is there continuity at all? And if there is no continuity what is it all about? Why should I collect any more? So I won't collect – then they become hermits, the Indian monks, and you know all that. I won't collect, I have only collected one idea which is my God, my saviour, my gurus, one thing I have collected, and so I cling to that.	所以，我们有着这种漫长的、无数世纪以来的收集积累和延续。对吧？然而死亡来临了，也就是说，我们的机体组织萎缩衰败了。我们可能是理智地、合理地、健康地使用了它，也可能滥用了它，去嗑各种药，等等。因此，机体组织不可避免地会走向结束。而那个结束就是死亡。对吧？所以我们必须思考一下结束意味着什么？你明白了吗？延续和结束。我们在一起探究它吗？我们在一起讨论它吗？这是一次你和演讲者之间的对话。因此，存在着这种你紧抓不放的延续，也存在着这种延续的终结。所以我希望我们已经理解了延续是什么意思。于是我们说：我会死去，但是来世还可以再来，我还有来世的生活。我会有来世。所有的亚洲人，毕达哥拉斯学派，以及一些西方人，那些古代的人，他们说一定存在来世。而整个东方世界的人，他们或多或少都相信轮回转世（rebirth），因为他们想要延续。但他们从来没有问过 ——他们中有些人问过，那些古代的人—— 那个延续的东西是什么？究竟是否存在延续？你们是否也在问这些问题？不，你们没有。是我在问你们。看在上帝的份上真的存在延续吗？如果不存在延续，那么这又是为了什么呢？为什么我还要再去收集东西呢？所以我不会再去收集了——然后他们就变成了隐士，变成了印度的僧侣，你们都知道这些。我不会去收集东西，我只有一个念头，那就是我的神明、我的救世主、我的古鲁，我只收集了一个东西，所以我紧抓着它不放。
53:01	So we know what it means to have a continuity. So we have to enquire into what does it mean to end. End, voluntarily, not through age old disease and some kind of awful pain, all that. What does it mean to end anything? Right? Therefore one asks, is continuity creation or invention? You are following all this? Are you? Can continuity ever be creative? Or where there is continuity as knowledge there is invention. That is, invention is based on knowledge. Scientific invention, mechanical inventions and so on, because there is previous knowledge. Which is, following the same line of invention, gathering more knowledge, inventing more, that is what is happening technologically in the world.	所以，我们知道了延续是什么意思。那么，我们就要来探询一下结束是什么意思了。主动自愿地去结束，不是经由老年的疾病，或者某种可怕的痛苦，等等这些。结束某个东西是什么意思？对吗？因此某人问：延续是一种创造还是一种发明？你们跟上这些话了吗？跟上了吗？延续可能是创造性的吗？还是说，当有了知识的延续，就会有发明了。也就是说，发明是建立在知识之上的。科学上的发明，机械上的发明，等等。因为我们有着过往的知识。也就是说，它是遵循着同一条发明的路线的，收集起更多的知识，发明更多的东西，这就是科技世界中正在发生的事情。
54:33	So is creation – creation, not just the baby – creation, is it related to ending? You understand? So we are going to find out. Oh, you people. Please, I am talking, you are not joining in this. Don't get too tired, please. So what is ending? Can I end – please listen – habit? Can I end habit tomorrow? Or today? Enquire into it. Voluntarily, not through desire, through a direction, because somebody says end it, then you will get a reward, and all that immature stuff, but find out for ourselves what it means to end something, easily, happily, without any effort. That means ending not only certain physical habits but the habits that the brain has cultivated to live safely. You understand? End it. That is what it means to die, doesn't it? Because we are a vast accumulation of memories. We are a bundle of memories. Right? I wonder if you see this. Not, I am spiritual and God and all that stuff – that is still memory. The Indians have their own explanation. Separate Atman – I won't go into all that.	所以，创造 ——创造不只是生出孩子—— 创造它是否和结束相关？你理解了吗？所以我们要来搞清楚它。噢，你们这些人啊。拜托，我正在讲话，但你们并没有参与进来。请不要感到太累，拜托了。所以，什么是结束呢？我能够结束——请听好——习惯吗？我能够明天就结束掉某个习惯吗？或者今天就结束掉？请探询它。是主动自愿地结束它，而不是经由欲望，经由别人的指导，因为有人说如果你结束掉它，你便可以获得一个奖励回报，等等这些不成熟的事情，而是要亲自去发现结束某个事物意味着什么？轻松地、愉快地、毫不费力地结束掉它。那不仅意味着结束掉某些外在身体上的习惯，也包括那些大脑培育起来的、以便安全生活的习惯。你明白了吗？结束掉它。这就是死亡的意义所在，不是吗？因为我们是大量记忆的堆积物。我们就是一大堆记忆。对吗？我不知道你们是否看到了这一点。不是说我是灵性的、我是神，等等这类东西 ——这些东西仍旧是记忆。印度人对此有着他们自己的解释。那个自我独立的阿特曼（Atman：宇宙灵魂；大我）——我就不深入这些东西了。
57:04	So, death means the ending. Right? You may not accept it, you may not like it, but that is a fact. You can't take everything with you. You might like to keep it until the last moment – if you have a bank account, and have everything comfortable, you might like until the last second. We used to know a man who had collected a lot of money, immensely rich. And he was dying. And he kept a lot of it in his cupboard. Literally. I happened to be there. He told his son to open the cupboard, to look at all the diamonds, gold and bank account, notes. And he was looking at it happily, and he was dying. I know. And he never realised he was dying because the money mattered enormously – not death, that which is contained in that cupboard. So, is there an ending to one's deep memories, to one's attachment? Ah, let's take that up.	所以，死亡意味着结束。对吗？你也许不接受它，你也许不喜欢它，但这就是事实。你什么都带不走。你或许喜欢将那些东西保留到你生命的最后一刻 ——如果你有一笔银行存款，拥有所有那些令人舒适的东西，你或许会希望一直拥有它们，直到最后一刻。我们曾经认识一个人，他积累了大量的钱财，家财万贯。在他快要死的时候，他将大量的钱财都放在他的柜子里。他真的是这样做的。我当时恰好也在那里。他叫他的儿子打开那个柜子，这样他就可以看到柜子里的所有的钻石、黄金、存折和现金。他愉快地看着它们，而此时他快要死了。我明白。他从来没有意识到自己快要死了，因为钱才是最最重要的东西 ——重要的不是死亡，而是柜子里藏着的东西。所以，我们能否结束掉自己内心深处的记忆，结束掉自己的执著依恋（attachment）？对了，就让我们来谈谈执著吧。
59:00	Is there an ending to your attachment? What is attachment? Why are we attached to something or other – to property, money, to wife, to husband, to some foolish conclusion, to some ideological concept – why are we so attached? Enquire into it. Let's talk it over together. And the consequences of attachment.	你的执著可以结束吗？什么是执著？为什么我们要执著于这样或那样的事物 ——执著于财产、金钱、妻子、丈夫，执著于某个愚蠢的结论，执著于某个意识形态的观念 ——为什么我们要如此的执著？请你探询一下它。让我们一起来探讨下它吧。来探讨一下执著依恋的结果。
59:55	If I am attached to you, if the speaker is attached to you as an audience, think what his state of brain must be. He is frightened he may not have an audience. He becomes nervous, almost apoplectic, and he is attached to exploit people, to have a reputation. You understand? So, the consequences of attachment, if you observe it very closely, whether it be a wife, husband, a boy or a girl or an idea, or a picture, or to a memory, to an experience, the consequences are that it breeds fear of losing. Right? And out of that fear there is jealousy. How jealous we are. Of those in power who are – you follow? All the jealousy. From jealousy there is hatred. Of course, jealousy is hatred. And when you are attached there is always this suspicion, secrecy. Haven't you noticed all this? I don't have to tell you. It is so common in the world. And can you, if you are attached to something or some idea, some person, can you end it now? That is death. Which means, can you live with death all the day long? Think of it sir, go into it. You will see the greatness of it, the immensity of it. That is – not commit suicide, we are not talking of that silly stuff – but to live with that, ending all sense of attachment, all sense of fear, which means having a brain that is active, active and not have direction, purpose, etc. Active. That is to live with death every second, never collecting, never gathering, never giving anything a continuity. Sirs, you don't know – if you do it, you will see what it means. That is real freedom. And from that freedom there is love. Love is not attachment. Love is not pleasure, desire, fulfilment.	如果我执著于你们，如果演讲者执著于你们这些听众，想想他的大脑状态会是什么样的，他会害怕自己也许没有听众。他会变得紧张不安，几乎快要中风，他执著于去剥削他的听众，从而获得名誉声望。你们理解了吗？所以执著依赖的结果，如果你非常密切地观察它的话 ——不管是执著于妻子、丈夫、男朋友、女朋友，还是某个理念、某个画面、某段记忆、某段经验，执著的结果就是，它会滋生出对于失去的恐惧。对吧？而从这种恐惧之中，就会产生出嫉妒。我们是多么的有嫉妒心啊。嫉妒那些权势之人，那些……——你明白了吗？所有那些嫉妒。从嫉妒之中就产生出了仇恨。这是很自然的，因为嫉妒就是仇恨。当你执著依恋时，你就总是会有猜疑，总是会藏着秘密。你们难道没有注意到这些吗？这并不需要我来告诉你们。这是全世界共有的现象。而如果你执著于某个事物、某个观念、某个人的话，你能否现在就结束这种执著呢？这才是死亡。它的意思就是，你能否整天都和死亡共同生活？思考下它吧，先生，去探究它。然后你就会看到它的伟大之处，它的巨大无限了。也就是说——不是让你去自杀，我们并没有在说这种愚蠢之事—— 而是要你与死亡生活在一起，结束掉所有执著依恋的感觉，所有的恐惧感，这意味着你有着一个活跃的大脑，它是活跃的，但却没有方向、目的等等。它只是保持着活跃。也就是时时刻刻与死亡生活在一起，永远不去收集，永远不去聚集，永远不要赋予任何事物以延续性。先生们，你们并不知道 ——如果你能这样做的话，你就会明白它意味着什么了。这才是真正的自由。而从那种自由之中就会有爱。爱并不是执著依恋。爱也不是快感、欲望和满足。
1:04:03	And we ought to talk over together what is religion. Shall we go on? Are you tired? Would you like to take a breather? This is a very serious subject – as death and every other human endeavour, every human experience, sorrow, pain, grief. This is also a very important question – what is religion? Not the unbeliever or the believer, but from the days of ancient people, they have said, this isn't good enough, the way we are living is meaningless. We can give meaning to life, which is an intellectual process. But the real depth and the significance of life, what is it all about? And so in that enquiry they said, there must be something beyond all this. Right? And the word 'religion', the word itself, they haven't found the meaning of that word, the etymological meaning of that word. So we must together find out what is true, actual religion, not the religion invented by thought, not the religion organised like Christianity or Hinduism or Buddhism. That is not religion. That is just as any other big business. Right? I am not condemning it, I am just observing. We are observing it. I really mean it, I am not condemning it. The speaker has no sense of condemnation in him, he just says these are facts, which we avoid. And we are now facing it. Christianity is one of the greatest, richest things in the world. There is a temple in South India where every third day it has a million dollars. Right? With those million dollars every third day, they have universities, colleges, feed the poor, do all the regular social – but that is not religion. Going to church once a week – sorry to laugh about all this – going once a week, confession, accepting the wafer, the medieval dress and all the singing and dancing or whatever you do in all those places. That is what we consider religion, which has absolutely nothing to do with our life, with our daily, unfortunate, miserable, happy, unhappy life. It is something traditional, we have been brought up in it. Or we can deny it and say that is all nonsense, and become cynical about it all.	然后，我们也应该一起来讨论下什么是宗教？我们可以继续吗？你们累不累？你们想要歇口气吗？这是一个非常严肃的话题 ——就像死亡和其他所有的人类努力、所有的人类经验一样——苦难、痛苦、悲伤。这同样也是一个非常重要的问题 ——什么是宗教？这里的宗教不是指有没有信仰，而是从古老的时代开始，古人们就在说了：这还不够好，我们这样的生活方式是毫无意义的。但我们可以赋予生活一些意义，这当然是一种思想智力上的过程。然而生活真正的深度和意义，它是什么呢？然后就在询问它的过程中，他们说：一定还存在着某种超越一切凡俗的事物。对吧？而“宗教”这个词，这个词本身，人们并没有找到这个词的意思 ——它词源学上的意思。所以我们要一起来发现一下什么才是真正的、实际的宗教？不是那种思想所发明的宗教，不是那种有组织的宗教，比如基督教、印度教或佛教。它们并不是宗教。它们就像其他所有大型企业一样。对吗？我并不是在谴责它，我只是在观察。我们正在观察它。我是说真的，我并没有在谴责它。演讲者的内心并没有任何谴责的意思，他只是说，这些都是事实，只不过我们回避了事实，而现在我们正在面对它。基督教是全世界最庞大、最富有的组织之一。在南印度有一座寺庙，每隔三天它就能赚到一百万美元。对吗？然后它会用每三天赚到的那数百万美元去建立大学、各类学校，供给穷人食物，去做所有那些普通的社会慈善活动 ——但这并不是宗教。每周去一次教堂做礼拜 ——很抱歉我对这一切发笑了—— 每周去一次教堂忏悔，接受圣饼，穿上仿中世纪的服装，唱歌、跳舞，或者无论什么你在那个地方所做的事。这就是我们所认为的宗教，然而它与我们的生活完全没有任何关系 ——我们日常的、不幸的、痛苦的、快乐或不快乐的生活。它只是某种我们在其中被培养长大的传统。或者我们可以否定它，说这一切都是荒谬愚蠢的，对它冷嘲热讽。
1:08:43	But if we are serious, and one hopes you are, even for this morning, what is it to have a religious brain? To the speaker, brain is different from the mind. Go slowly, I will explain a little bit. The activity of the brain is not only neurological but also psychological. Right? It is the centre of all sensation, it is the centre of all stimulation – sensation, urges, desires. It is the centre of all thinking. And it is limited. It can invent God, it can invent immense space, but it is still in the area of the brain. You understand? Whereas the mind is outside the brain. Don't please accept this. Though we have discussed this matter with certain scientists, some of them accept, some of them say, well, this poor old chap, he is just woolly. It is alright.	然而如果我们是认真的，某人希望你们是认真的，哪怕只是今天早上保持认真，什么才是拥有一个宗教头脑（religious brain）？对演讲者来说，头脑（brain）和心灵（mind）是不同的。慢慢来，我会稍微来解释一下它。头脑的活动并不只是神经学上的，它同样也包括心理上的活动。对吧？它是所有感官感觉的中心，它是所有刺激的中心 ——那些感官感受、冲动和欲望。它是所有思考的中心。然而它是局限的。它可以发明出上帝，它可以发明出巨大无限的空间维度，但这些东西仍旧是落入于头脑的领域中的。你理解了吗？然而心灵（mind）却是在头脑（brain）之外的。请不要接受这一点。尽管我们曾经与某些科学家讨论过这个问题，但他们中有些人认可这一说法，而有些人则说，哦，这个可怜的老家伙，他只是在胡言乱语。这也没关系。
1:10:19	So, look at it carefully for yourself. The speaker is not an authority, so don't accept authority in these matters, for God's sake, look at it for yourself. Your brain is conditioned, programmed, educated to be Oxford, Cambridge, here Harvard and so on, distilled knowledge. You acquire from the professor, from the teacher, knowledge, and then you pass it on. And the whole activity is within the skull, and therefore however much it may imagine, it is still within the brain. Therefore it is limited. Love is not within the brain. For God's sake, realise it. Love cannot be in the brain. You can't think about love – the love between you and your wife or husband, whatever it is. It is there as sensation. Therefore that sensation is not love. Death is not a sensation. Right? So, to the speaker, the brain is something separate from the mind. We will go into it if we have time. You don't mind if I go on a little longer?	所以，请你去小心仔细地观察一下它。演讲者并不是一个权威，所以在这些问题上，不要把他当权威而接受他的话，看在上帝的份上，请你自己去看一下它。你的头脑已经被局限了，被程序化了，它接受了牛津大学、剑桥大学、这里的哈佛大学等等的教育，那些提炼精选过的知识。你从教授、老师那里获取了知识，然后你将知识传递下去。而所有这些活动都是在脑壳里进行的，因此无论头脑进行了多么惊人的想象，它都仍旧是在头脑之中的。因此它是局限的。爱并不存在于头脑中。看在上帝的份上，请意识到它。爱是不可能存在于头脑中的。你是无法去思考爱的 ——比如你和你妻子或丈夫的“爱”，无论什么爱。那种“爱”是一种感官感觉。因此那种感官感觉并不是爱。死亡并不是一种感官感觉。对吧？因此，对演讲者来说，头脑是某种与心灵分离的事物。如果有时间的话，我们将会来探讨它。你们不介意我稍微多讲一些时间吧？
1:12:18	Audience: No, please.	听众：不介意的，请讲吧。
1:12:25	K: So, we can see, if you are sane, rational, observing totally impersonally, without any bias, all the things that man has put together as religion is not religion. The incense, the rituals, the worship, the prayer, all the hierarchy, the immense wealth of these people, immense, marvellous paintings, the Vatican, tremendous jewels in certain temples in India. Surely worshipping, kneeling, genuflecting, all that is not religion. Don't be angry. Please just listen, observe.	克：所以，我们可以看到 ——如果你们是理智的、理性的，能够完全客观地、毫无偏见地去观察的话，（你就会发现）所有那些人类所拼凑起来的、作为宗教的事物，它们都不是宗教。焚香、仪式、崇拜、祈祷，所有的宗教层级，宗教人士的巨大财富，惊人的财富，那些精美绝伦的绘画，在梵蒂冈那里，而印度的某些寺庙里也有着数量惊人的珠宝。毫无疑问，崇拜、跪坐、跪拜，这些全都不是宗教。请不要感到生气。请你们只是去聆听、去观察。
1:13:39	The fundamentalists, the evangelists, the fundamentalists not only in this country, Iran and the Muslim world. And this fundamentalism is growing slowly like some terrible disease in India too. Because it gives them a sense of power, position, and limited. So all that, the preaching, the sermons, all the beauty of marvellous Catholic rituals. If you have seen the cardinals officiating in Venice or in Rome, it is a marvellous sight. It is like a military thing operating, but beautiful. But that is not beauty as we have talked about the other day. So all that is not religion. Right? Intellect, which is the power to discern, the power to distinguish, to see what is true, what is false, that is the power of the intellect. And the world over the intellectuals have denied all this. Not the speaker is an intellectual – I am just saying. So all that is not religion. Can the brain, which has been conditioned to all this, be free of it? Not tomorrow, now. There is no tomorrow. We went into that. Time – I won't go into all this now, it is too long. Time is now. So if that ends, if all that has no meaning, then one can ask what is religion. Right?	那些原教旨主义者，那些福音传教士，原教旨主义者不仅仅存在于这个国家，存在于伊朗和穆斯林世界。这种原教旨主义也正在印度缓慢地成长发展起来，如同某种可怕的传染病。因为它给予了人们一种权力感、地位感，觉得自己很稀奇。因此所有这些东西，那些宣传、布道，那不可思议的天主教仪式的所有美丽。如果你曾经在威尼斯或罗马见过红衣主教主持的宗教仪式，你会看到惊人美妙的景象。它就像是一场军事演练，但却无比美丽。但它并不是我们前几天所谈论的那种美。因此，所有这些东西都不是宗教。对吗？理智（Intellect），它是一种洞察的能力，一种辨别的能力，去看到什么是正确的，什么是错误的，这就是理智的力量。而世界各地的知识分子们已经否定了这一切。并不是说演讲者也是知识分子——我只是这么一说。因此，所有这一切都不是宗教。那么，那个一直以来深受这些事物制约的头脑，它能够摆脱掉这一切吗？不是在明天，而是此刻就摆脱。并不存在什么明天。这个我们已经探讨过了。时间——我现在就不深入它了，那会花费很长的时间。时间就是此时此刻。所以，如果这些东西都被否定了，如果这一切都没有意义，那么我们就可以来问问什么是宗教了。对吧？
1:16:17	Then comes the whole question of what is meditation? Because meditation and to find out, find out, not experience. You understand? To see what is truth. Not my truth or your truth, or the Christian truth or the Hindu truth. If it is mine and yours, then it is not truth. Right? It is mine. I keep it, and you keep it. How can it be? Like love is not mine, and yours. So, truth has no nationality, no religion, no path to it, no system. So we have to come to it, find out. Not I find out, you find out – to see it together. And there is this whole question of meditation, awareness, attention. Right?	于是就出现了“什么是冥想？”这个问题。因为冥想和发现去发现，而不是去经验。你理解了吗？去看清什么是真理。不是我的真理或你的真理，也不是基督教的真理或印度教的真理。如果真理要分成我的和你的，那它就不是真理了。对吧？这是我的真理。我保留我的真理，而你保留你的真理。这怎么可能呢？就像爱并不是属于我的，也不是属于你的。所以，真理也是没有国界，不分宗教的，没有什么道路或体系可以达到它。所以我们必须要来处理这个问题，去发现它。不是我去发现或你去发现 ——而是我们一起去看它。然后我们还有着那整个关于冥想、觉察和注意力的问题。对吧？
1:17:54	Meditation is the Indian word which the gurus have brought over to this country. The meaning of that word is 'to ponder over', the meaning, dictionary meaning. To ponder over, to think over, to inform about something, to meditate. I meditate about the book I am going to write. Or I meditate about the picture one is going to paint. But meditation is something apparently different. There is the meditation of the Zen Buddhists. If you are interested in the word 'Zen', it comes from the Sanskrit word 'Dhyaana'. And one of the Buddhist priests went to China in the sixth century and preached Buddhism there. And they couldn't pronounce Dhyaana, so it became 'Zhia', then the Japanese took it over and it became 'Zen'. I have been told this, it may be wrong. You can take it as you please. So, there is the whole movement and appreciation and the books about Zen. Then there is the Buddhist meditation, which is very complicated, I won't go into it. And there is the Hindu meditation. Then some people from Tibet have brought over their meditation. And the gurus invent their own meditation. The word 'guru' in Sanskrit means weight – weight, heavy. And also that word has different meanings. Which is, one who helps to eradicate ignorance. You understand? Not the one who imposes his ignorance on others. I am glad we can laugh. It means several other things, but that is enough.	冥想（Meditation）是一个印度的词汇，那些古鲁们将这个词带到了这个国家。这个词的意思是“去沉思”，它在词典里的意思。去沉思，去细想，去了解某个事物，去冥想它。我会去冥想一本我要写的书。或者我会去冥想自己要去画的那幅画。然而真正的冥想很显然与它们是不同的。存在着那种禅宗佛教的冥想。不知道你们是否对“禅（Zen）”这个词有兴趣，这个词来自于梵文词语“Dhyaana（禅定默观）”。某位佛教的僧人在公元六世纪的时候前往了中国，然后在那里传播佛教。但那里的人无法念出“Dhyaana”这个词，于是它就变成了“Zhia”，后来日本人接管传承了禅，然后这个词就变成了“Zen（禅）”。这是别人告诉我的，它也许是错的。相不相信随你的便。所以，我们有着所有那些关于禅的活动、理解和书籍。然后，我们还有着佛教的冥想，这个就比较复杂了，我就不展开讲了。然后，还有着印度教的冥想。另外，一些来自西藏的人也带来了他们的冥想。而一些古鲁也发明了他们自己的冥想方式。 “古鲁（guru）”这个词在梵文中的意思是重量 ——重量、有分量。此外，这个词还有一个不同的意思。它指的是：一个帮助别人根除无知的人。你明白了吗？而不是那个将自己的无知强加于别人的人。我很高兴我们都笑了。这个词还有其他几个意思，不过先说这些就够了。
1:21:02	So meditation, which is now being practised the world over, is a deliberate act, a systematic practice – sitting cross-legged, breathing in a certain way, controlling your thought, silencing your reactions, holding, controlling, suppressing, or becoming aware bit by bit of your whole body – I won't go into it – awareness, and keeping awake, not going to sleep. There are various systems and methods. Some are pleasant, some are unpleasant. Some when you meditate, there is a guru who keeps you awake, either shouting at you or slightly beating you. Oh yes, this is going on. Please don't. Or you meditate on a picture, on a symbol, or on a poem, just a phrase. Which all implies direction, control, limited energy, forcing. Right? To the speaker, all that is not meditation. To the speaker – please don't accept it. There is a different kind of meditation altogether. Because those are all the result of conniving, manoeuvring. Right? So gradually, if you practice all those things your brain inevitably becomes dull. Right? And you can have X-rays and alpha rays and all that kind of thing, and it shows you can do certain things extraordinarily well, but it is still within a very, very limited area. So the speaker is saying – please don't accept this at all. Because it is no value accepting and saying, you are right, you are wrong, this is absurd. Just observe it. Conscious meditation is no meditation. Deliberate meditation is like any other form of achievement, in business – I set out, being poor, to be a rich man. What is the difference between that man who pursues money, power, position, and the other fellow who says, I will meditate to achieve nirvana or heaven or silence? None at all. Both are achieving what they want. Only one calls it spiritual, other calls it business. And we swallow them both.	所以，冥想如今全世界的人都在练习冥想，而这种冥想是一种刻意的行为，一种有系统的练习 ——盘腿静坐，以特定的方式呼吸，控制你的思想，让你的各种反应平息下来，保持、控制、压抑，或者一点一点地慢慢去觉知到你的整个身体 ——我就不深入下去了——那种觉知，保持清醒，不要睡着。我们有各种冥想体系和冥想方法。其中有些令人愉快，有些则令人不快。其中有一些，当你在冥想的时候，会有一位古鲁在一旁让你保持清醒，他要么会朝你大喊，要么会轻轻地敲打你。哦，是的，就是这样的请你们不要（笑）。或者你会去冥想一幅图画、一个符号、一首诗歌，只是冥想其中的一句。这一切都暗示着有一个方向，暗示着控制、受制约的能量、强迫。对吗？对演讲者来说，所有这些都不是冥想。只是对演讲者来说——请你们不要接受它。然而还有着一种截然不同的冥想。因为刚才那些冥想全都是纵容默许（conniving）和伎俩花招的产物。对吧？所以慢慢地，如果你练习了所有这些东西，你的大脑不可避免地会变得迟钝。对吧？虽然你们有X射线、α射线，等等这类东西，但这只是表明了你们可以把某些事情做得非常好，但它仍旧是落入于非常非常有限的领域中的。所以演讲者想说 ——请绝对不要接受他的话。因为如果你只是接受，然后说你是对的，你是错的，这是荒谬的——这样做是毫无价值的。只是去观察它。演讲者想说：有意识的冥想并不是冥想。刻意的冥想与其他形式的成就没什么两样，比如生意上的成就—— 因为我很穷，于是我便开始努力去变得富有。那个追求金钱、权力、地位的人，和另一个说“我将会通过冥想来达到涅槃、天堂或寂静”的人，他们又有什么区别呢？没有任何区别。他们两者都在努力去实现他们想要的东西。只不过一个把它称为灵性的，另一个把它称为生意罢了。而我们对他们两者都信以为真了。
1:24:24	So is there a meditation which is not deliberate? If you ask that question, setting aside everything, you will find out. Which means, a brain – if you are interested to go into this deeply – a brain that is free from all accumulated knowledge. Face it. Because all knowledge is conditioning. Right? Because knowledge is always limited – we went into it the other day – why? Because knowledge is based on experience. And experience is always limited – whether the experience God, or whatever it is, God is your invention out of your fear, your anxiety, your desire to be secure, to have comfort, to rely, lean on somebody.	所以，是否存在一种并非刻意的冥想？如果你能问问这个问题，将一切都抛在脑后，那么你就会发现了。那意味着你有这样一个头脑 ——如果你们有兴趣深入这个问题的话—— 一个摆脱掉了所有积累下来的知识的头脑。面对这个事实。因为所有的知识都是局限。对吗？因为知识永远都是局限的 ——前几天我们已经探讨过它了——为什么呢？因为知识是建立在经验之上的。而经验永远都是局限的 ——不管是经验到上帝，还是其他任何经验，上帝是你们的发明，你们经由自身的恐惧、焦虑、渴望安全、渴望慰藉、渴望能依赖和依靠某个人而发明了上帝。
1:25:52	So the brain, which has its own rhythm – the speaker is not a specialist on the brain, but he has watched, not only his own petty little brain, but the brain of humanity – and that brain is everlastingly chattering, praying, asking help, demanding help, it is tremendously active. And can that activity calm down? Become very quiet, still, without any movement – not induced, not cultivated silence. There is a great deal to be said about silence, not now, because it is nearly one o'clock. Silence between noise. Silence between two wars, peace. You understand? Silence between two notes. Between two words. Between two thoughts. All that is not silence. That is not the still, quiet, utterly peaceful brain that is empty of everything that man has collected. And man has always sought from the beginning that which is nameless. He has given it different names, different aspects – here in Christianity it is one thing, Hinduism it is another. In Hinduism you can believe or not believe, you are still a Hindu. You understand? You need never go to a temple, be utterly sceptical, doubt everything and yet be a Hindu. They are marvellously cultivated brains they had. Now it is all becoming business.	因此头脑有着它自身的节奏 ——演讲者并不是一个大脑专家，但是他已经观察过了他自己那个卑微的头脑，以及人类的头脑—— 那个头脑永远在喋喋不休、祈祷、寻求帮助、要求帮助，它无比的活跃。那么，它的活动可以平息下来吗？变得非常安静，平静，没有任何运动 ——但不是那种刻意诱发的或者培养出来的寂静（silence）。关于寂静，有很多东西可以讲，但不是现在，因为现在已经将近一点钟了。噪声之间的寂静。两次战争之间的寂静，那种和平。你理解了吗？两个音符之间的寂静。两句话之间的寂静。两个念头之间的寂静。所有这一切都不是寂静。它并不是一个平静、安静、彻底安宁的头脑，那个清空了人类所聚积的一切事物的头脑。人类从一开始就一直在寻找那个不可名状的事物。他给了这个事物不同的名字、不同的面貌 ——在这里，在基督教中他是这个样子的，而在印度教中，他又是另外一个样子。在印度教中，你可以去相信，也可以不相信，但你仍旧可以是印度教教徒。你理解了吗？你永远不需要去寺庙，你可以质疑一切，怀疑一切，但同时却仍旧是印度教教徒。他们有着无比精心培育起来的头脑。然而现在这些全都变成了一桩生意。
1:28:41	So, there is a meditation which is not conscious, deliberate. In that meditation there is utter stillness. It is not the stillness of thought. That stillness is not the product of thought. That is why it is very important to understand thought, thinking and all that. And when the brain is utterly quiet then that which is nameless is. That cannot be described, that cannot be given any quality, that is not the saviour, that is nothing, it is something entirely different.	所以，存在着一种并非有意识的、并非刻意的冥想。在那种冥想中有着彻底的寂静。它并不是思想的寂静。那种寂静并不是思想的产物。所以了解思想、思考等等这类东西是非常重要的。当头脑彻底安静下来，那时就会有那个不可名状的事物了。那个事物是无法被描述的，你也无法赋予他任何性质，他并不是救世主，他不是任何事物，他是某种完全不同的东西。
1:29:35	So there is that something that is beyond time, because all time has stopped. That is the true meditation, that is the really true religious mind. May we get up?	所以，存在着某种超越时间的事物，因为所有的时间都已停止。而这才是真正的冥想，这才是真正的宗教心灵。我们可以起身了吗？