克里希那穆提 - 大脑始终在记录

Krishnamurti Subtitles

RV84DS2 - 大脑始终在记录与学生们的第二次讨论瑞希山谷学校 1984年12月18日
0:24 Krishnamurti: What shall we talk about? What would you like to talk about?	0:24 克：我们要谈些什么？
0:37 Student: Death.	0:37 你们想谈些什么？学生：死亡。
0:41 K: You want to talk about death? Aren’t you too young to talk about death?	0:41 克：你想讨论死亡？难道你这样的年龄讨论死亡不是太早了吗？
0:56 S: Let’s continue with what we were talking about last time.	0:56 学：那么让我们继续上一次所谈的内容吧。
1:02 K: What were we talking about last time?	1:02 克：我们上一次谈到了什么？
1:08 S: Prejudice and insecurity.	1:08 学：偏见和不安全感。
1:13 K: Oh, yes. Have you got a lot of prejudices? You have, haven’t you? Lots of them. Are they fun? Do you like them? You know what prejudice does? Suppose I am prejudiced against whom? For whom would you like me to have prejudices, against whom? Don’t you suggest some? Suppose I have prejudices against Rajesh, there he is, I caught his eye! Do you know what happens if I have prejudices against him? I won’t understand him, will I? My prejudices come in the way in understanding Rajesh.	1:13 克：噢，是的。你们心存很多偏见吗？你们有各种偏见，是吗？心存很多偏见。这些偏见有趣吗？你们喜欢这些偏见吗？你们知道偏见对我们做了些什么吗？假设我对某人心存偏见你们想让我对谁心存偏见呢，对哪一位？你们难道不给点建议吗？假设我对瑞吉士心存偏见他就在那里，我吸引到了他的注意力！如果我对他心存偏见，你们知道会发生什么事情吗？我将无法理解他，是不是？在我去理解瑞吉士的过程中，我的偏见就会挡路。
2:35 S: Prejudices for him?	2:35 学：如果是偏向他的偏见呢？
2:39 K: You come over here. Come on!	2:39 克：你到这里来。来吧！
2:50 S: Prejudices for him?	2:50 学：如果是偏向他的偏见呢？
2:52 K: Against him. Either I have prejudices for... I like him and therefore I have prejudices in his favour, or I don’t like him, I have prejudices against him. Right? Now, what happens if I have prejudices?	2:52 克：反对他的偏见。无论是我心存偏向他的偏见我喜欢他，因此怀有对他有利的偏见还是我不喜欢他，我有反对他的偏见。对吗？那么，当我心存偏见，会发生什么事情？
3:11 S: You don’t understand him.	3:11 学：你就无法理解他。
3:13 K: I don’t understand him, I don’t see what he says clearly. I don’t want to understand him. Right? So it is like a dark glass – you understand? If I have a dark glass in the window, I can’t see the sun clearly, can I?	3:13 克：我无法理解他，我无法清楚地理解他所说的话。我不想理解他。对吗？所以，这就像一块黑色的玻璃 - 你们明白吗？如果我的窗户玻璃是黑色的，我就无法清晰地看到太阳，是不是？
3:36 S: No.	3:36 学：是的。
3:38 K: So prejudices act that way. I have prejudices against him, they become a block. Right? So I don’t understand him. Now, will you drop your prejudices if I drop mine? Take time over it. Will all of you drop your prejudices and try to understand somebody? If you have prejudices in my favour, you won’t understand me. Right? If you have them against me, you won’t understand me either. Right? So will you drop your prejudices, will you?	3:38 克：所以偏见就是那样运作的。我对他心存偏见，偏见就变成了一种障碍。对不对？所以我无法理解他。那么，如果我放下我的偏见，你会放下你的偏见吗？好好考虑一下。你们所有的人愿意放下你们的偏见，试着去理解一个人吗？如果你们心存对我有利的偏见，你们将无法理解我。对吗？如果你们心存对我不利的偏见，你们同样会无法理解我。对吗？所以你们愿意放下自己的偏见吗，可以吗？
4:30 S: When both of us have prejudice against each other then how do we know what...	4:30 学：当我们对彼此都心存偏见的时候我们又怎么知道什么（无法听清的）
4:37 K: First, don’t have prejudices and learn what happens. Right? Will you learn? Or are you too young?	4:37 克：首先，不要心存偏见，然后看看会发生什么事情。对吗？你们愿意去学习吗？或者你们还太年轻？
4:54 S: But it’s difficult to drop opinions when you form them already.	4:54 学：但是当你已经形成了某些看法之后，想要放下它们是很困难的。
5:00 K: You can drop them, can’t you?	5:00 克：你能够放下的，不是吗？
5:05 S: How?	5:05 学：怎么放下呢？
5:12 K: Have you opinions against me, for me? Have you?	5:12 克：你对我心存不利或者有利的偏见吗？有这样的偏见吗？
5:20 S: Sir, if we expect something out of you, do we have an opinion about you?	5:20 学：先生，如果我们对您有所期待，这是对您抱有一种看法吗？
5:25 K: No, no. If you expect me to give you good marks because I like you, then that is a prejudice.	5:25 克：不，不。如果因为我喜欢你你就期待我给你好的分数，那么那就是一种偏见。
5:36 S: Suppose I expect you to not make one hour boring. Is it a prejudice?	5:36 学：假设我期待你让这一个小时不无聊。这是偏见吗？
5:46 K: I don’t understand the last word. Slowly.	5:46 克：我不明白你说的最后一个词。慢慢讲。
5:49 S: Suppose I expect you not to make one hour boring. I have one hour with you in class, let’s say. And I don’t want it to be boring.	5:49 学：假设我期待你让我们在一个小时里不感到无聊。比如说，你要和我在课堂上共度一个小时。而我不想度过无聊的一个小时。
6:01 K: You don’t want it to be boring – so what?	6:01 克：你不想让这一个小时无聊 - 然后怎样呢？
6:05 S: So is it a prejudice, like I am expecting it not to be boring?	6:05 学：所以这是偏见吗，就像我这样期待它不会无聊？
6:10 K: That’s not a prejudice, old boy.	6:10 克：那不是偏见，大男孩。
6:13 S: Like when you prejudge.	6:13 学：就像当你预先判断的时候。
6:16 K: Prejudge is not prejudice. It is almost a prejudice. If I prejudge you, I can’t see you directly, can I?	6:16 克：预先判断并非偏见。那差不多就是偏见了。如果我预先判断你，我就无法直接了解你，是吗？
6:29 S: Sir, isn’t it a prejudice if I expect the class to be interesting?	6:29 学：先生，如果我期待上课有趣难道那不是一种偏见吗？
6:36 K: You come over here, that’s your punishment!	6:36 克：你到这边来，这是对你的惩罚！
6:47 S: Isn’t it a prejudice if I expect the class to be interesting and I find it isn’t?	6:47 学：如果我期待上课有趣，却发现它很无趣难道那不是一种偏见吗？
6:53 K: I saw you the other day, didn’t I, here?	6:53 克：我前几天在这里见到过你，是吗？
6:57 S: Yes.	6:57 学：是的。
6:58 K: Yes, all right. What were you saying?	6:58 克：是的，好。你刚才说的是什么？
7:02 S: Isn’t a prejudice if I expect the class to be interesting and I find that it is boring.	7:02 学：如果我期待上课有趣，却发现它很无趣难道那不是一种偏见吗?
7:07 K: That is not prejudice. I want to teach you something about the flowers. Look at all those flowers. Marvellous, isn’t it? I want to talk to you about it, and you might find it boring. That’s not prejudice.	7:07 克：那不是偏见。我想要教给你有关花的一些内容。看一看所有那些花。那么美，不是吗？我想和你谈一谈这些，但是你可能发现那很无聊。那并非偏见。
7:23 S: But then it is prejudging the class.	7:23 学：但是那是预先判断了那一节课。
7:25 K: No, I want to tell you – look at those beautiful flowers, how nice they look, and the green lawn, green hedge, I want to show you them.	7:25 克：不，我想要告诉你 - 看一看那些美丽的花它们看起来多么漂亮，还有那绿色的草地那绿色的矮树篱，我想让你们看看那些。
7:38 S: But I am not expecting anything out of them.	7:38 学：但是我对它们没有任何的期待。
7:41 K: I am asking you to look and you don’t even look. That’s not prejudice. I am asking you – look at all those flowers and the green, the different kinds of green, and the yellow flowers. And then I say, look at all the people all round you, all these boys and girls, look at them carefully. All of them – those boys who are sitting out there who won’t talk and all those people who are sitting here, watch them all. Is that a prejudice? Or you don’t want to watch them therefore you consider it is a terrible bore.	7:41 克：我在请你去看一看鲜花，而你连看也不看。那不是偏见。我在请你 - 看一看所有的那些鲜花还有那些绿色，各种不同的绿色，还有那些黄色的鲜花。然后我说，看一看你周围所有的人所有的男孩和女孩，用心地看看他们。看他们所有的人 - 那些坐在后面一言不发的男孩子们还有坐在这边的所有的人，观察他们所有的人。那是偏见吗？还是因为你不想观察他们因此你认为那是非常无聊的事情。
8:24 S: No, I don’t know anything, so I...	8:24 学：不是，我什么也不知道，所以我
8:25 K: Just watch them. You don’t know anything about those flowers, do you?	8:25 克：只是观察那些花。你对那些花一无所知，不是吗？
8:30 S: No.	8:30 学：是的。
8:32 K: You see the beauty of it? You see the beauty of it all? The green, the varieties of flowers, colours. Does colour mean anything to you?	8:32 克：你看得到花的美吗？你能看到其中全部的美吗？那些绿色，不同种类的鲜花，色彩。色彩对你来说意味着什么吗？
8:50 S: Well, it looks beautiful on trees and flowers.	8:50 学：嗯，树木和鲜花的颜色看起来很美。
8:53 K: No, I said colour, not the flower which is specially beautiful, just colour. Now, who has got the brightest colour here? That girl with the red jersey. Does colour mean anything to you?	8:53 克：不，我是说色彩不是特别美丽的鲜花的颜色，仅仅是色彩本身。那么，在座哪个人衣着的颜色最明亮？那个穿红色运动衫的女孩子。色彩对你们具有什么意义吗？
9:16 S: It can mean so many things.	9:16 学：它可能意味着非常多的东西。
9:17 K: No, I am asking you about one thing, old girl. I am asking you, sirs, out there, do all those colours in this valley and the rock on that hill – I don’t know what you call that hill up there – and that rock early in the morning with the sunlight on it, does it mean anything to you? When you look at all this beauty around you, does it mean anything? Do you appreciate all this extraordinary valley? Come over here, there is plenty of room! Sit up here. Come on, old girl, don’t be shy, there. That’s good.	9:17 克：不，我只就这一件事在问你，大女孩。我在问你们，那边的先生们这个山谷里的那些色彩，还有那座小山上的岩石我不知道你们把那里的那座小山叫什么还有清晨的阳光洒在那岩石上这一切对你们有什么意义吗？当你环顾周围的一切美景，那对你意味着什么吗？你们欣赏这整片美丽非凡的山谷吗？学：（无法听清的）克：到这边来，我这儿有足够大的地方！坐在这儿。来吧，孩子，不要害羞，坐在这里。很好。
10:39 S: Like when you see them every morning you feel happy, it means you have seen something nice. So it really means something to you, your heart can rejoice.	10:39 学：就像每天早晨你看到山谷的美景，你感到开心那意味着你看到了一些美好的事物。所以那对你确实有意义，你的心能够因此而喜悦。
10:48 K: But do you get used to it?	10:48 克：但是你对它习以为常了吗？学：是的，看得多了就会习以为常。
10:51 S: Yes, you get used to seeing it.	10:51 克：你为什么会习以为常呢？
10:54 K: Why do you get used to it?	10:54 学：因为你每天都能见到。
10:55 S: Because you see it everyday.	10:55 克：我知道。听我说。
10:57 K: I know. Just listen. If you get used to me and I get used to you, what happens? I don’t listen to what you are talking about, and you don’t listen to what I am talking about. Will you?	10:57 如果你对我习以为常，我也对你习以为常，会发生什么事情？我不再倾听你所讲的话你也不再倾听我所讲的话。是吗？
11:12 S: I don’t get that. Like, you can always listen to someone. I may be going with one person every day, but still I may know that person, it means not know that person.	11:12 学：我不会那样的。就像，你始终可以去倾听一个人。我可能每天都和一个人走在一起但是仍然可以了解那个人，也就是说我其实还不了解他。
11:23 K: Of course. But don’t get used to anything. That way you keep alive. If you look at those flowers – look at them, turn around and look at them, carefully look at them. Look at Kabir, sitting out there and Mrs Jayakar and Radhikaji, there, against the background. Isn’t that beautiful? And do you get used to it?	11:23 克：当然。但是请不要对任何事物习以为常。那样的话，你就可以保持生机勃勃的生活。如果你观察那些鲜花 - 看一看，转过头去看一看那些鲜花，非常用心地看。看一看卡波尔，他就坐在那里还有贾亚卡尔夫人和瑞迪卡吉，就在那边，在背景前面。那不是很美吗？那么你对此习以为常吗？
12:01 S: Yes.	12:01 学：是的。
12:02 K: Yes, why?	12:02 克：是的，为什么？
12:03 S: Because I see it everyday.	12:03 学：因为我每天都看得到。
12:05 K: No, beauty is not seeing something every day. Beauty is that later in the day will be totally different, won’t it?	12:05 克：不，美不是每天都看到一样的东西。美是今天晚一些时候又会是完全不同的美，难道不是吗？
12:16 S: Yes.	12:16 学：是的。
12:17 K: In the mid-afternoon it will be much more bright and towards the evening it will have totally different colours, won’t it? Can you get used to it? You can’t, can you? So don’t get used to anything, don’t get used to your father, your mother, or to your teachers.	12:17 克：在午后，色彩会更加明亮而快到了黄昏时，会有完全不同的色彩，不是吗？你能对此习以为常吗？你不能，不是吗？所以不要对任何事物习以为常不要对你的父亲习以为常，不要对你的母亲或者老师们习以为常。
12:46 S: But then we have a routine in school, then we get used to it, what is different in a routine every day?	12:46 学：但是我们在学校里有每日的常规然后就习以为常了，每日的常规又有什么不同呢？
12:52 K: Your mind then becomes routine, your mind then goes round and round like a gramophone.	12:52 克：那样你的头脑就变得程序化了接着你的头脑就像留声机一样转圈子了。
12:59 S: Well, that doesn’t mean that I think along the same lines every day but the routine, the things we do every day, we get up at 5:30, we go for breakfast, we go for classes, that’s a routine.	12:59 学：可那并不意味着我每天都依循同样的思路思考但是每日的常规，我们每天做的事，早晨5：30起床我们去吃早餐，我们去上课，那些是每日的常规。
13:11 K: No, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Why do you call it routine?	13:11 克：不，等一下，等一下。你为什么叫它常规？
13:15 S: Because that’s what happens every day.	13:15 学：因为那就是每天发生的事情。
13:18 K: Listen to what I am talking about, don’t be so quick to answer. Why do you call it routine?	13:18 克：仔细听我正在说的话，不要那么快作答。你为什么叫它常规？
13:26 S: Because we do it every day.	13:26 学：因为我们每天都是做那些事情。
13:31 K: Do you do everything every day and call it routine or are you aware of what you are doing every day? Know what you are doing? Get up in the morning at 5:30, cleaning and all the rest of it, are you aware that you are doing it? Do you pay attention to what you are doing? Or do you do it casually and get on?	13:31 克：你是每天做所有那些事情然后称它们为常规呢还是每天你都能明白你在做什么？你知道自己正在做什么吗？早晨5：30起床洗漱然后是其余的事情，你能知道你正在做这件事情吗？你全神贯注于你正在做的事情吗？还是说你只是随随便便地做着和继续着？
14:02 S: Yes, I do it casually.	14:02 学：是的，我就是随随便便地做。
14:03 S: Not always.	14:03 学：不一定。
14:05 K: I am asking you – do you do this every day, conscious, aware, know what you are doing, when you are cleaning your teeth do you know you are cleaning your teeth? Do you watch very carefully?	14:05 克：我在问你 - 你每天都是这样吗有意识地，明明白白地知道你正在做的事情：你正在刷牙，你知道你正在刷牙吗？你是否非常用心地观察？
14:19 S: I don’t.	14:19 学：我没有。
14:20 K: Now, why? If you watch carefully, it never becomes routine. You understand what I am saying? Are you still here? Good! Do you watch carefully everything that you are doing every day? Why? If you watch everything you do every day, it gives you much more... aware, you watch everything then. You watch all those tamarind trees with their fruit and that rock over there. It is an extraordinary thing to watch.	14:20 克：那么，为什么？如果你用心地观察，没有什么会变成常规。你明白我所说的吗？你还在听我说吗？非常好！你非常用心地观察你每天正在做的每一件事吗？为什么？如果你观察你每天做的每一件事，那些事将给予你更多的东西那么请有所觉察，观察每一件事物。你观察所有的那些罗望子树以及它们的果实还有那边的岩石。观察是非常不同凡响的一件事。
15:12 S: It is.	15:12 学：是的。
15:13 K: Will you do it?	15:13 克：你会去那样做吗？
15:15 S: I do it.	15:15 学：我会的。
15:16 K: No. Every day, every minute, not just casually one day. All the time watch, all the time watch people, watch what they say, how they dress, and all the rocks here, and the trees. You learn much more by watching. Will you do it? If you say to me you will do it, if you promise, you must keep your promise. Otherwise don’t promise. Right? Don’t promise if you can’t do it. Will you promise? Careful!	15:16 克：不。每一天，每一分钟，而不仅仅是有一天随随便便地做一下。始终都观察，始终都观察人们，观察他们说了什么他们的穿着，还有山谷的所有岩石，树木。通过观察你能学到更多。你会那么做吗？如果你对我说你会那样做如果你承诺，你就必须信守你的承诺。否则的话，请不要承诺。好吗？如果你做不到，请不要承诺。你会承诺吗？认真一点！
16:05 S: No.	16:05 学：我不能承诺。
16:06 K: Quite right! So, when you don’t watch carefully everything you are doing, what you say, how you dress, how you clean your teeth and so on, your mind becomes routine, mechanical. You understand? If your mind becomes watchful, then everything you are doing becomes much more fun.	16:06 克：非常正确！所以，当你无法用心地观察你正在做的每一件事观察你所说的话，观察你的穿着观察你如何刷牙，等等你的头脑就会变得程式化，机械化。你明白吗？如果你的头脑变得警觉那么你所做的每一件事都会变得更加有趣。
16:46 S: Sir, but isn’t it something mechanical even if you watch it?	16:46 学：先生，即使你观察它，但是它仍然是机械的，不是吗？
16:54 K: No, it depends how you watch. Nothing becomes mechanical if you know how to watch.	16:54 克：不，那取决于你如何观察。如果你懂得如何去观察，什么都不会变得机械。
17:06 S: How do you watch?	17:06 学：您是怎么观察的？
17:08 K: I am going to tell you. Will you do it first?	17:08 克：我正要告诉你。首先，你会去做吗？
17:13 S: I’ll try.	17:13 学：我尽量。
17:16 K: Don’t try, do it.	17:16 克：不要尽量，去做。
17:19 S: That’s easy to say.	17:19 学：那说起来容易。
17:21 K: I know it is easy. You all want to be very comfortable, easy. But I will tell you how to watch – not ‘how’, what it means ‘watching’. I will tell you what it means to watch. Will you follow it carefully?	17:21 克：我知道说起来很容易。你们都想要非常舒适，轻松。但是我会告诉你如何观察 - 不是“如何”，而是“观察”意味着什么。我会告诉你观察意味着什么。你们可以用心地听我讲吗？
17:50 S: Sir, then won’t it become a routine to watch?	17:50 学：先生，那么难道观察本身不会变成一种例行公事吗？
17:58 K: Of course, not. But I haven’t told you what it means to watch. Then you can call it routine or not. Right? Will you learn from what I am saying? Learn, find out, will you? I have asked you, look at those flowers, see the beauty of it, see the colour of it, enjoy it, have fun with it. Don’t hurt them. You know? I’ll tell you. Scientists, biologists have discovered that trees communicate with each other. If one tree gets diseased – you understand? – it tells the others, ‘Be careful, guard yourself against me’. Do you understand? They are much more intelligent than human beings in some ways because when you are ill you don’t tell the others, ‘Keep away from me!’	17:58 克：当然不会。但是我还没有告诉你观察意味着什么。然后你可以决定是否要称它为例行公事。好吗？你们会从我所讲的话当中学习吗？去学习，去探索，好吗？我已经请你，看一看那些鲜花看到它的美，看到它的色彩欣赏它，从中获得乐趣。不要伤害它们。你们知道吗？我会告诉你们。科学家们，生物学家们已经发现，树木与树木之间是彼此互相交流的。如果有一棵树染上了疾病 - 你们知道它会告诉其他的树， “当心，保护自己不要被我传染了”。你们明白吗？在某些方面它们比人类有智慧多了因为当你们生病的时候，你们不会告诉其他的人，“离我远点儿！”
19:18 S: Of course you do, sir.	19:18 学：你当然会那样做，先生。
19:20 K: You do?	19:20 克：你会那样做吗？
19:22 S: If you have conjunctivitis...	19:22 学：如果你得了结膜炎
19:26 K: Wait, wait! Now I am going to show you how to watch, will you learn?	19:26 克：等一下，等一下！现在我要告诉你如何观察，你会学习吗？
19:36 S: Yes, sir.	19:36 学：是的，先生。
19:39 K: Yes? Good. First you watch with your eyes, don’t you, look. Look at those tamarind trees, look at them, look at them. Do you see them?	19:39 克：是吗？很好。首先你用眼睛来看，不是吗，看。看那些罗望子树，看着它们，看。你看到那些树了吗？
19:58 S: Yes, sir.	19:58 学：是的，先生。
19:59 K: Now wait, watch it. And you see the rocks behind there?	19:59 克：现在等一下，观察它。你看到后面的那些岩石了吗？
20:06 S: Yes, sir.	20:06 学：是的，先生。
20:07 K: Now how do you watch it? Are you thinking while you are watching?	20:07 克：那么你是怎么观察的？你在观察的同时也在思考吗？
20:15 S: No, sir.	20:15 学：没有，先生。
20:16 K: You have learnt something, haven’t you? That you are not thinking when you are watching.	20:16 克：你已经学到了一些东西，不是吗？那就是当你在观察时，你并没有同时在思考。
20:25 S: Right.	20:25 学：是的。
20:27 K: Right? Then do you watch with your eyes only? Or do you watch altogether? Not only with your eyes, but the feel of it, the colour of it, the depth of the trees, the shadows, the little shadows, do you see? Do you see those dragonflies flying?	20:27 克：是吗？那么你只是用你的双眼在观察吗？或者你是在全然地观察？不仅仅用你的眼睛，还有其中的感受，它的色彩树和树影的浓密程度那些小小的树影，看到了吗？你看到那些飞舞的蜻蜓了吗？
20:54 S: Yes, sir.	20:54 学：是的，先生。
20:57 K: So you see everything when you are watching. Right? Agree? So when you watch very carefully, that way I am showing you, then you watch me, or watch somebody else very carefully, what happens? You have a friend here, haven’t you?	20:57 克：所以当你观察的时候，你就看到了所有的一切。是吗？同意吗？所以当你非常用心地观察时，用我告诉你的方式观察来观察我，或者观察其他的人非常用心地，那么会发生什么事情？在座有你的朋友，是吗？
21:24 S: Yes, sir.	21:24 学：是的，先生。
21:25 K: Watch him.	21:25 克：观察他。学：好的，先生。
21:30 S: Yes, sir.	21:30 克：那么谁是你的朋友，那个男孩吗？
21:31 K: Now who is your friend, that boy?	21:31 学：是的，先生。
21:33 S: Yes, sir.	21:33 克：好的。我想也是，我想他是你的朋友
21:34 K: Right. I thought so, I thought it was your friend, you two sat together and smiled together. Right? Now watch him, or watch somebody else. Carefully watch them, how they sit, how they look.	21:34 你们俩刚才坐在一起而且一起笑。是吗？那么观察他，或者观察其他的人。非常用心地观察他们，他们是怎么坐的，他们的样子。
21:55 S: I can’t watch them, sir, they are smiling.	21:55 学：我不能观察他们，先生，他们在笑。
21:59 K: They are smiling? Then see them smiling. So that when you watch very carefully you begin to see things you have never seen before. Right? If you watched that carefully, you saw all those dragonflies, you saw the shades deep down, there is a man going by on a bicycle, do you see it?	21:59 克：他们在笑？那就看他们笑的样子。那么当你非常用心地观察的时候你就会开始看到你从未看到过的东西。对吗？如果你刚才非常用心地观察了，你一定看到了那些蜻蜓你看到了远处深深的树影那里有个人骑着自行车经过，你看到了吗？
22:32 S: Yes, sir.	22:32 学：是的，先生。
22:33 K: So when you watch you begin to learn much more. Now, the next step is you not only watch with your eyes but also listen to all the noise going on. Listen carefully. People coughing, people moving, never sitting still. Right? Watch and listen. Right? So watch, listen and learn.	22:33 克：所以当你观察时你就开始学到更多的东西。那么，下一步是你不但要用眼睛来观察而且要倾听周围所有的声音。用心地倾听。有人正在咳嗽，有人正在走动，从来都没有安安静静地坐着。是吗？观察和倾听。对不对？那么，请观察，倾听，并且学习。
23:22 S: Is there learning while you are watching and listening?	23:22 学：当你在观察和倾听的时候，你学到东西了吗？
23:25 K: I haven’t finished, old boy. Find out what learning is. Now listen carefully, listen carefully. When you watch and when you listen you are learning, not merely memorising, you are learning to see all the things that are happening around you. Right? Are you doing it? Who is there? Look. You learn from books, don’t you, or you learn mathematics?	23:25 克：我还没有讲完，大男孩。搞清楚什么是学习。现在用心地倾听，用心地倾听。当你观察的时候，当你倾听的时候你就是在学习，不是仅仅在记忆你还在学习了解在你的周围正在发生着的一切事情。对不对？你在这样做吗？谁在那边？你看你们从书本上学习，是吗或者你们学习数学？
24:12 S: Yes, sir.	24:12 学：是的，先生。克：你们还学习什么？
24:13 K: What else are you learning?	24:13 学：历史，我们还在学生物
24:16 S: History, we are learning biology, learning chemistry, learning geography.	24:16 化学，还有地理
24:22 K: God, so much already? English, mathematics, geography, history, chemistry.	24:22 克：天哪，已经在学那么多了？英语，数学地理，历史，化学。
24:32 S: Biology.	24:32 学：生物。
24:32 K: Biology.	24:32 克：生物。
24:33 S: Physics.	24:33 学：物理。克：你一定是个了不起的人物！
24:35 K: You must be a great man! Now – I am joking, right?	24:35 那么 - 我是在开玩笑，对吗？学：是的，先生。
24:45 S: Yes, sir.	24:45 克：当你在学习的时候，发生了什么事情？
24:48 K: When you are learning what is happening? You have got a book, your educator points out, the teacher informs you. You are memorising, aren’t you?	24:48 你有课本，你的老师会指出要点，老师教导你。你在记忆，是吗？
25:00 S: Yes, sir.	25:00 学：是的，先生。
25:01 K: Memorising, which is what? You are recording as it is recorded on a gramophone plate. Right? You understand what I am saying?	25:01 克：记忆，那是什么？你在做记录，就像刻录在留声机的唱片上一样。是吗？你们明白我所说的话吗？
25:13 S: Yes, sir.	25:13 学：是的，先生。
25:14 K: You have a gramophone, haven’t you, in your school?	25:14 克：你们的学校里有留声机，是吗？
25:18 S: Yes, sir.	25:18 学：是的，先生。
25:19 K: So you put on a plate and it repeats, repeats, repeats. Right?	25:19 克：所以当你把唱片放上去，它就会重复，重复，再重复。是吗？
25:25 S: Right.	25:25 学：是的。
25:27 K: Are you doing that?	25:27 克：你们在那样做吗？
25:29 S: While studying, yes.	25:29 学：在学习的时候，是的。
25:31 K: You are memorising, not learning. You are memorising. Right? Because at the end of the school, at the end of the term you are going to be examined. And you must answer quickly, so you memorise. Now, memorising is like a gramophone record, repeating, repeating, repeating. Right?	25:31 克：你们在记忆，那不是学习。你们是在记忆。对不对？因为学校学期末的时候在学期的末尾，你们将要参加考试。而且你们必须快速作答，所以你们就记忆。那么，记忆就像留声机唱片重复，重复，再重复。对吗？
25:57 S: Yes.	25:57 学：是的。克：那是学习吗？
25:57 K: Is that learning?	25:57 学：我的意思是，当你开始记忆的时候，你就是在学习。
26:05 S: I mean, when you are beginning to memorise then you are learning.	26:05 克：不，开始是。但是随后你就是在重复了。
26:08 K: No. At the beginning. Afterwards you repeat.	26:08 学：是的，随后就不是学习了。
26:13 S: Yes, afterwards it is not learning.	26:13 克：不是学习了。终于！你们明白了吗？
26:15 K: Not learning. At last! You got it? Have you learnt it? Do you see something? That is, I don’t know what language? German. I don’t know German, I speak Italian, French, a little bit of English, a little bit of French, a little bit of Italian. Therefore If I want to learn German I have to study it, haven’t I? I have to look at the words, how they are pronounced, the meaning of the word and the irregular verbs and so on. 27:00 All that I study – memorise. Right? My brain records everything – all the German words, the syntax, the irregular verbs, it memorises, that is, it records. The brain records, and then at the end of four months, three months, or whatever it is, you begin to speak German. Right? When you record like that all the time it is like a gramophone which is recording.	26:15 你们学到了吗？你们明白一些什么了吗？也就是说，我不懂以什么语言为例呢？德语。我不懂德语，我可以说意大利语，法语，一点儿英语一点儿法语，一点儿意大利语。所以如果我想掌握德语，我就必须学习它，是吗? 我必须要看那些单词它们如何发音，它们的含义是什么以及那些不规则动词，等等。所有那些我要学的 - 就是记忆。 27:00 是吗？我的大脑记录所有的东西 - 所有的德语单词语法，不规则动词，头脑在记忆，也就是说，头脑在记录。大脑记录着，于是四个月结束了或者三个月，不管是几个月，你就开始讲德语了。对不对？当你始终像那样记录时那就像一部留声机在记录。
27:40 S: So it is just like memorising, it is not learning.	27:40 学：所以那就像记忆，而不是学习。
27:42 K: That’s it, that’s all I am saying. Memorising is not learning.	27:42 克：就是这样，这就是我要说的。记忆不是学习。
27:49 S: Then by watching you learn.	27:49 学：那么通过观察你是在学习。
27:51 K: Wait, first see it. First see – memorising is not learning.	27:51 克：等一下，首先搞清楚这点。首先要搞清楚 - 记忆不是学习。
27:57 S: Until you finish.	27:57 学：直到你完成
27:59 K: Wait! Darling, you are too quick. But do you see this fact, that memorising is not learning? Memorising is repetition because you have to pass an exam, you have got to get a job. Right? So learning is not memorising. So what is learning then?	27:59 克：等一下！亲爱的，你太快了。但是你明白这个事实吗，那就是，记忆不是学习？记忆就是不断的重复，因为你必须要通过考试你必须要找到一份工作。是吗？所以学习不是记忆。那么什么是学习呢？
28:32 S: Sir, does it mean that each time you watch you are learning something?	28:32 学：先生，那是否意味着，每一次的观察你都是在学习？
28:43 K: That’s right. Right, you have said something true. Each time you watch you are learning, because things change. You understand? If you are watching those trees early in the morning, they have quite a different light, haven’t they? And later on in the day it has a different light, there is a different movement, different shades, different colour, you are learning.	28:43 克：是的。是的，你说出了某些真实的东西。你每一次的观察都是在学习，因为事物都在发生改变。明白吗？如果你在清晨时观察那些树它们被笼罩在完全不同的光线里，不是吗？接着在白天，又会有不同的光会有不同的移动，不同的树影不同的色彩，这样你就是在学习。
29:17 S: Each time you..	29:17 学：每一次你
29:21 K: Come over here! I am going to have all the class round here. Give her some room, old boy.	29:21 克：到这边来！我会让整个班的学生都坐到我这里来。大男孩，给她让点地方。
29:39 S: Sir, when you see people, when you see them every day...	29:39 学：先生，当你看到人们，当你每天都看到他们
29:43 K: Don’t get used to seeing people every day. Watch them.	29:43 克：不要因为你每天见到他们就习以为常。观察他们。
29:47 S: But there isn’t anything new in them always.	29:47 学：但是并非人们身上总有新鲜的东西。
29:50 K: How do you know?	29:50 克：你怎么知道？
29:51 S: Sir, I don’t think so. Every time the same ones...	29:51 学：先生，我认为不是那样的。每一次都是一样的人
29:55 K: Do you know your body cells are changing, so people are changing. I am not the same as you saw me yesterday, I may have moved, I may have changed, I might do all kinds of things. I am a living being, it is only dead things that don’t change.	29:55 克：你知道你身体的细胞在变化吗，所以人们也在不断地改变。我和你昨天见到的我是不同的，我可能搬家了我可能已经变了，我可能做了各种各样的事情。我是一个活人，只有死了的东西才不会发生改变。
30:19 S: And if we watch them, then we can find out?	30:19 学：那么如果我们观察它们的话，我们就会有所发现吗？
30:21 K: That’s right. If you watch them, you learn because then as you watch those trees the first thing in the morning they are different. Right? Different colour, different movement, different depth of light. Right? Different shadows. It is just like that human being are.	30:21 克：是的。如果你观察它们，你就会学到一些东西因为当你一大早就观察那些树的时候它们在清晨会呈现出不同的样貌。对不对？不同的色彩，不同的晃动，深浅不同的光芒。对不对？不同的树影。那就和人类所展现出的不同是一样的。
30:43 S: Sir, I see the change in the trees and that, but I don’t know why I don’t see it in people.	30:43 学：先生，我能看到树的不同变化还有但是我不知道为什么我看不到人们身上的变化。
30:48 K: Because you are lazy, because you don’t want to look carefully at people. Right?	30:48 克：因为你的懒惰因为你不想用心地看一看人们。是吗？
31:00 S: Yes.	31:00 学：是的。
31:01 K: So watching, listening, and therefore learning, not memorising. Is that clear?	31:01 克：所以去观察，倾听，因此学习到一些东西，而不是去记忆。清楚了吗？
31:14 S: Yes, sir.	31:14 学：是的，先生。
31:17 K: But do it. Now, in India specially they have a lot of theories, about God, about heaven, about – a lot of it, nothing to do with their daily life. Right? The daily life counts much more than your gods and theories. Right? So watch your life. When you promise something always keep it. So don’t promise without realising that you must keep it.	31:17 克：但是要去做。现在，特别是在印度，关于神，天堂以及有关那些的种种人们有一大堆的理论，但是那些和我们的日常生活却完全无关。对不对？每一天的生活比你的各种神和理论要重要得多对不对？所以请观察你的生活。当你承诺的时候，始终都要信守这承诺。所以如果你没有意识到你必须信守你的承诺，那就不要承诺。
31:58 S: So you watch what you say, you watch what you are doing. Like when I watch a tamarind tree I must have that realisation in myself that I am also watching.	31:58 学：所以你要观察你所说的话，所做的事。就像，当我在观察那棵罗望子树一样我必须自己意识到，我正在观察着。
32:09 K: Yes, that’s right. You are watching yourself. I am watching those trees and I am also watching myself. I am watching what I am saying, whether I tell the truth or lie, I am watching my various annoyance, anger, jealousy, fear, I am aware of all that. You understand? As I am aware of those flowers I am aware also of myself. Right? It is much more fun watching yourself because you are changing, you are different. One morning you are depressed, the next morning you are happy, the third morning you are irritated. Right? Will you do all this, or just say, ‘Yes, yes’, and carry on?	32:09 克：是的，很对。你在观察你自己。我在观察那些树的同时，也在观察我自己。我在观察我所讲的话不管我讲的是真话还是假话我在观察我各种各样的烦恼愤怒，嫉妒，恐惧，我能注意到那所有的一切。你们明白吗？就像我能注意到那些鲜花一样我同样也能注意到我自己。对不对？观察自己是更加有乐趣的一件事因为你在发生改变，你是不同的。一天早晨你很沮丧，第二天早上你就开心了第三天早晨你很生气。对不对？你们会做这些吗，还是仅仅说， “是的，是的”，然后继续以前的生活？
33:05 S: I have watched myself.	33:05 学：我观察过我自己。
33:06 K: Will you do it?	33:06 克：你会那样做吗？
33:07 S: Yes.	33:07 学：是的。
33:10 K: Promise?	33:10 克：你承诺吗？
33:12 S: Yes, I will do it.	33:12 学：是的，我会那样做的。
33:14 S: No. I will try.	33:14 学：我不能承诺。我会试试。
33:16 K: You promise? Careful!	33:16 克：你能承诺吗？请当心！
33:19 S: I think I will do it, sir.	33:19 学：我想我会那样做的，先生。
33:21 K: Not, ‘you think you will do it’. But do you promise to do it every day? That means you must keep it. Don’t promise now.	33:21 克：不是，“你想你会那样做的”。而是你可以承诺你每一天都会那样做吗？那就意味着你必须信守这样的承诺。不要现在承诺。
33:33 S: I’ll try to do it.	33:33 学：我会试着那样做的。
33:34 K: No, don’t try. Either do it, or don’t do it.	33:34 克：不，不要试。要么去做，要么不去做。
33:37 S: But I want to do it.	33:37 学：但是我想那样做。
33:41 K: Then do it. You see, just listen, if you do that, you become extraordinarily alive, your brain becomes extraordinary, so sensitive. Right?	33:41 克：那么就去做。你知道，听我说，如果你那样做，你将变得格外的有生命力你的头脑变得非凡无比，非常的敏感。是吗？
34:03 S: Yes, sir.	34:03 学：是的，先生。
34:04 K: You are not sensitive. You are very young, you are not sensitive.	34:04 克：你现在并不敏感。你非常年轻，但是不敏感。
34:11 S: Sometimes when I am thinking of something I don’t realise I am thinking, I am so caught up in that thinking. Whereas sometimes, suppose I am watching a tree, I know that I am watching a tree. I am aware that I am watching a tree and I am watching it at the same time. Whereas sometimes I am thinking, I don’t realise that I am thinking. So I am not watching myself at that time.	34:11 学：有时候当我在思考一些事情的时候我没有意识到我正在思考，我是如此之深地陷入思索中。然而有时，假设我正在观察一棵树我知道我在观察一棵树。我能意识到我正在观察一棵树同时我也在观察它。然而有时，我正在思考但是却意识不到我正在思考。所以那个时候我并非在观察自己。
34:31 K: Wait, wait. Realise that you are thinking. Watch your thinking. Why you think, what makes you think that way, watch it, watch everything that you are doing.	34:31 克：等一下，等一下。请意识到你正在思考。观察你的思想。你为何思考，是什么令你以那样的方式思考观察它，观察你正在做的每一件事。
34:48 S: Sir, but sometimes I am so caught up in that thinking.	34:48 学：先生，但是有时我被思想完全困住了。
34:52 K: Just listen carefully. Now listen. We are talking to each other, aren’t we, so we are thinking too. Right? And we may think silently and put it into words. Right? That is what we are doing now. You think and you put it into words. And you want to tell me something, so I am very careful to convey what I want to say to you.	34:52 克：请用心地听我说。现在听着。我们正在交谈，不是吗，所以我们也是在思考。对不对？我们可能会沉默地思考然后将它诉诸语言。对不对？这就是我们正在做的事情。你思考然后将它诉诸语言。而你想告诉我一些什么所以我会非常小心地传达我想要对你说的事情。
35:24 S: Sir, but sometimes you don’t think and then put it into words, the words come.	35:24 学：先生，但是有时你并没有思考，却说出了那些话话自然就到嘴边了。
35:30 K: Yes. Why is that?	35:30 克：是的。那是为什么呢？
35:34 S: Sir, doesn’t it become mechanical again?	35:34 学：先生，难道那不是又变得机械了吗？
35:36 K: That’s just what I am telling you, don’t become mechanical. Don’t become mechanical. You have got glasses, right? Find out if you can do without glasses.	35:36 克：那正是我要对你们讲的，不要变得机械。请不要变得机械。你戴眼镜，是吗？去探索一下，你是否可以不戴它。
35:55 S: I can’t.	35:55 学：我不能。
35:57 K: Don’t say, you can’t.	35:57 克：不要说，你不能。
35:59 S: I can’t see anything without my glasses.	35:59 学：没有眼镜，我什么也看不见。
36:01 K: Find out, old girl! I am supposed to be 90 – I don’t have glasses. Do you know why?	36:01 克：去探索一下，大女孩！我要90岁了， - 我不戴眼镜。你知道为什么吗？
36:15 S: Because you can do without them.	36:15 学：因为你不戴眼镜能看得见。
36:19 K: You are nuts!	36:19 克：你个小傻瓜！
36:23 S: Sir, but then she knows she can’t do without them, she has tried it all before.	36:23 学：先生，但是她知道没有眼镜她看不清她以前就尝试过了。
36:27 S: Yes, that’s why I got glasses.	36:27 学：是的，那就是我为什么戴着眼镜。
36:30 K: Find out if you can see clearly without glasses. If you can’t, then find out if you can do eye exercises.	36:30 克：探索一下你不戴眼镜是否能看清。如果你看不清，探索一下你是否可以去做一做眼保健操。
36:43 S: I am doing that.	36:43 学：我在做着呢。
36:44 K: That may improve it. But if you keep on saying, ‘I must have glasses, I must have glasses’.	36:44 克：那可能会有所改善。但是如果你一直说， “我必须戴眼镜，我必须戴眼镜。”
36:49 S: No, I don’t do that.	36:49 学：不，我不会那样的。
36:51 K: But you are doing it, you say, ‘I can’t see without glasses’.	36:51 克：但你就是那样做的，你说， “没有眼镜我看不到东西。”
36:55 S: That’s because it is a fact, but I am doing exercises to see without glasses.	36:55 学：那是因为那是事实但是我在做眼睛的锻炼，以便以后不用眼镜也能看到。
36:59 K: So remove your glasses and make an effort.	36:59 克：那么把你的眼镜摘掉，好好努力一下。
37:05 S: One question, sir. You asked us to start learning and stop memorising.	37:05 学：我有一个问题，先生。你让我们开始学习，停止记忆。
37:13 K: Memorising, as I explained to you, old boy – listen carefully – memorising becomes mechanical. Right?	37:13 克：记忆，像我跟你们解释过的，大男孩用心地听 - 记忆会变得机械。是吗？
37:26 S: Yes, sir.	37:26 学：是的，先生。
37:27 K: The brain that is inside the skull is always recording.	37:27 克：我们头颅里的大脑始终都在记录。
37:35 S: Yes, sir.	37:35 学：是的，先生。
37:36 K: I say, that is yellow, that’s green. Right? Those are trousers. It is recording. Right?	37:36 克：我说，那是黄色的那个是绿色的。是吗？那些是裤子。这就是记录。对吗？
37:44 S: Yes, sir.	37:44 学：是的，先生。
37:45 K: That recording becomes mechanical.	37:45 克：那样的记录变成机械的活动。学：是的，先生。
37:47 S: Yes, sir.	37:47 克：而当你的头脑变得机械，你的整个人生就会变得机械。
37:48 K: And then being mechanical your whole life becomes mechanical.	37:48 学：先生，但是难道那不是事实吗
37:53 S: Sir, but isn’t it a fact that...	37:53 克：等一下，亲爱的，我还没有和这个小伙子说完。
37:55 K: Wait, darling, I haven’t finished with this chap. You jump on me before I have finished. Right? Ask your question afterwards. Remember your question. You understand? If I all the time am recording – green, white, purple, yellow, or he is my friend, he is not my friend – it is like a gramophone.	37:55 我还没有说完你就跳出来问我了。是吗？等一下再向我提问。记住你的问题。明白吗？如果我随时都在记录绿色，白色，紫色，黄色或者他是我的朋友，他不是我的朋友，那就像一部留声机。
38:27 S: Yes, sir.	38:27 学：是的，先生。
38:28 K: Right? So memorising is not learning. Learning is all the time something new.	38:28 克：对吗？所以记忆不是学习。学习永远都是新鲜的。
38:42 S: Like when you are studying something.	38:42 学：就像你正在研究一些东西的时候。
38:45 K: You have to learn that. You have to study it.	38:45 克：你必须要去学习它。你必须要去研究它。
38:48 S: We have to memorise then.	38:48 学：那么我们必须要记忆。
38:50 K: Wait a minute. I am your teacher. And I want to teach you history. Right?	38:50 克：等一下。我是你的老师。我想教你历史。是吗？
39:00 S: Yes.	39:00 学：是的。
39:01 K: I want to teach you history. You must know all the kings and all the rest of all that silly rot. Right?	39:01 克：我想教你历史。你必须知道所有的国王还有其他所有那些愚蠢腐朽的事情。是吗？
39:08 S: Yes, sir.	39:08 学：是的，先生。
39:09 K: It is silly rot. You must know who was the king of India in the 15th century and so on and so on. Right?	39:09 克：都是些愚蠢腐朽的事情。你必须知道谁是印度当时的国王在十五世纪的时候等等的一切。是吗？
39:22 S: Why do you call it silly rot?	39:22 学：你为什么称那些为愚蠢腐朽的事情？
39:24 K: It is silly. At the end of it it doesn’t affect your life at all, does it?	39:24 克：那很愚蠢。那些事情最终对你的人生完全没有影响，不是吗？
39:31 S: But if you want to become something, or do a course.	39:31 学：但是如果你想有所成就，或者完成一门功课。
39:35 K: That’s it, you memorise in order to become a professor.	39:35 克：就是那样，你记忆以便将来成为一名教授。
39:42 S: Yes, sir.	39:42 学：是的，先生。
39:43 K: Yes, sir. You memorise in order to get more money.	39:43 克：是的，先生。你记忆以便将来挣到更多的钱。
39:46 S: Get what?	39:46 学：挣到什么？
39:48 K: Money, better job.	39:48 克：金钱，更好的工作。
39:49 S: Not necessarily, sir.	39:49 学：不一定，先生。
39:51 K: Ah, yes, sir. If you don’t have good memory, you won’t have a good job. Have you watched the carpenters? Those people who build beautiful furniture? I have. They must know the quality of the wood. Right? The quality of grain and so on, and the instrument they use. They are very careful, so they memorise, they become an apprentice first from another carpenter, they learn by that, memorise, and then they become good carpenters. Right? Now I want to teach you history – just listen quietly, will you? Will you listen, or you are off somewhere else?	39:51 克：啊，是的，先生。如果你的记忆力不好，你就不会找到好的工作。你曾观察过木匠吗？那些造出了漂亮家具的人？我观察过他们。他们必须了解木头的质地。对不对？以及木质的纹理等等，还有他们使用的工具。他们非常用心，所以他们记忆他们师从于另外一个木匠，然后成为一名学徒他们从中学习，记忆，然后成为一名出色的木匠。是吗？现在我想教你们历史 - 请安静地听我说，好吗？你愿意听吗，还是你已经走神到其他事情上去了？
40:48 S: I am listening, yes.	40:48 学：我正在听，是的。
40:49 K: Good. I want to teach you history. History means story. Right? It is a story of all the past kings, past queens, all the wars, etc. Right?	40:49 克：好的。我想教你们历史。历史就是故事。对吗？历史是过去的所有那些国王，王后和战争，等等。是吗？
41:09 S: Right, sir.	41:09 学：是的，先生。
41:11 K: And also story means story about yourself.	41:11 克：而且，故事也意味着关于你自身的故事。
41:16 S: Yes, sir.	41:16 学：是的，先生。
41:17 K: Right?	41:17 克：是吗？
41:18 K: Story about what is happening in the world and story also about yourself. You are a much more interesting story than the story of all the kings.	41:18 克：关于这个世界上正在发生着什么的故事还有关于你自身的故事。你是一个更有趣的故事比那些国王们的故事有趣多了。
41:32 S: I agree, sir.	41:32 学：我同意，先生。
41:36 K: Agree? Right, sir. So, I am going to talk about not only the history according to the books but also I am going to talk to you about the story of yourself.	41:36 克：同意吗？好的，先生。所以，我要告诉你们的，不仅仅是来自于书本上的历史而且我要来谈谈关于你们自身的故事。
41:50 S: But that is not what we do in class.	41:50 学：但是我们在课堂上做的不是这样的事情。
41:52 K: I know they don’t. I said, if I was your teacher I would do that. You understand?	41:52 克：我知道他们不教你们这些。我是说，假如我是你们的老师，我会那样教。明白吗？
42:00 S: Yes, sir.	42:00 学：是的，先生。
42:01 K: I would combine both – the book and also about yourself.	42:01 克：我会把两者结合起来 - 书本上的以及关于你自己的故事。
42:06 S: That is a very far possibility of your ever being a teacher.	42:06 学：您要成为一名老师，这几乎是不可能的。
42:12 K: Slowly, slowly. What?	42:12 克：慢一点，慢一点。你说什么？
42:14 S: Sir, you couldn’t ever be a teacher.	42:14 学：先生，您永远都不会成为一名老师的。
42:18 K: Why not?	42:18 克：为什么不会？
42:19 S: Not on a subject as such.	42:19 学：不会成为这种教某个科目的老师。
42:21 K: Ah, I said I would combine both. I would combine the book. Right? And also I would combine the history about oneself. The history about oneself is the history of all mankind. Right?	42:21 克：啊，我是说，我会将两者结合。我会结合书本来教。对不对？同时我也将结合一个人自身的历史。关于一个人的历史也是全人类的历史。对吗？
42:40 S: So the history of all mankind is the history of oneself.	42:40 学：那么全人类的历史就是一个人自身的历史。
42:43 K: Which is yourself.	42:43 克：也就是你自。
42:44 S: So if you study the whole of mankind we are studying ourselves.	42:44 学：所以如果你研究全人类，我们就是在研究我们自己。
42:49 K: That’s right.	42:49 克：是这样的。
42:50 S: So then we are studying the whole of mankind.	42:50 学：那么我们就是在研究人类的整体。
42:54 K: You are not listening to what I am saying, old boy. I am saying, telling you, if I was a teacher of history the meaning of history from Latin is ’storia’ – storia means history. In Italian it is called storia, it comes from Latin and so on. Now, I am going to talk about what? Who is your king in the 15th century? Who is your king in the 15th century?	42:54 克：你没有听我所说的话，大男孩。我在说，我正在告诉你，如果我是你们的历史老师历史在拉丁语里的意思是“故事” - “故事”意味着历史。在意大利语里，它叫做故事，那来自于拉丁语，等等。现在，我来谈些什么呢？谁是你们十五世纪时的国王？谁是你们十五世纪时的国王？
43:30 S: There are so many kings, sir.	43:30 学：那时有很多个国王，先生。
43:32 K: So many of them, quite right. Give me one of their names. Come on, somebody there.	43:32 克：很多个国王，太对了。告诉我其中的一个名字。快点，那边的人说说。
43:39 S: Babur.	43:39 学：巴布尔。
43:42 K: Barber?	43:42 克：巴伯（理发师）？
43:45 S: No, B-a-b-u-r.	43:45 学：不是，B-a-b-u-r.
43:49 K: I thought you said a barber! I know, that’s a joke. So, I would teach you, I would say Babur was the father of Humayun, right? And Humayun’s son was Akbar – right? So I would go into all that. Right? And also I would say, what about you you are also story, you are a great story, much greater than Akbar. Right?	43:49 克：我还以为你说国王是个理发师！我知道，那只是开玩笑。那么，我会教你，我会说巴布尔是汗马勇的父亲，对吗？而汗马勇的儿子是阿克巴尔 - 对吗？所以我会深入所有的那些。对不对？而且我还会说，那你呢你也是个故事，你是一个非常了不起的故事，比阿克巴尔要伟大多了。对吗？
44:31 S: Yes, sir.	44:31 学：是的，先生。
44:32 K: So, I would talk to you about yourself. I would say, what are you? You have a book about yourself inside you. Learn to read that book, you understand?	44:32 克：所以，我会和你讨论关于你的故事。我会说，你是什么？你内在有一本关于你自己的书。学习如何去阅读那本书，明白吗？
44:51 S: Yes, sir.	44:51 学：是的，先生。
44:53 K: Are you sure you understand what I am saying? Don’t say, ’Yes, sir’. I am saying, ’The book about Akbar there are many volumes that have been written about Akbar. And there is a volume also in yourself, what you are’.	44:53 克：你确定你明白我所讲的吗？不要说，“是的，先生”。我说的是， “关于阿克巴尔的书人们已经写了很多卷关于阿克巴尔的书。但是你的内在也有一本书，关于你是什么的书”。
45:16 S: So you said that	45:16 学：所以你说那
45:18 K: Are you listening to what I am saying?	45:18 克：你在倾听我所说的话吗？
45:20 S: Yes.	45:20 学：是的。
45:22 K: There is a book inside you which you must learn to read. But you neglect to read that book. So I am going to see that you learn to read that book not only the book of Akbar, but the book about yourself. So I am going to go into that. I would teach you that way. That is a most marvellous way to learn not only what is happening in the world outside you but the extraordinary book that you have inside you the book that is the rest of mankind not just Indian history.	45:22 克：你的内在有一本书你必须学会去阅读它。但是你却忽视它，不去读它。所以我要确保你学会去阅读那本书不但要读阿克巴尔的书，而且要阅读你自己这本书。所以我要深入地讲这件事。我会那样来教你。那是一种最不同凡响的学习方式不但学习你之外的世界发生着什么事情也要学习你内在那本不同寻常的书那本书也是全人类之书而不是仅仅学习印度的历史。
46:23 S: Sir, then why doesn’t it happen?	46:23 学：先生，那为什么我们的课堂不是这样的？
46:25 K: Because your teachers don’t do this.	46:25 克：因为你们的老师没有这样做。
46:27 S: Sir, but you are President of the Foundation	46:27 学：先生，但是你是基金会的主席
46:31 K: What? Say it, sir! Good.	46:31 克：什么？说吧，先生！好的。
46:33 S: Sir, but you are President of the Foundation why don’t you do something?	46:33 学：先生，但是你是基金会的主席你为什么不做点什么呢？
46:36 K: I am the President of the Foundation, he says why don’t I do something about it. You are quite right, sir. But they won’t listen. Wait, they won’t listen.	46:36 克：我是基金会的主席，他说为什么我没有为此做点什么。你说的非常对，先生。但是他们不听我的。等一下，他们不会听我的。
46:52 S: But they are like us.	46:52 学：但是他们和我们是一样的。
46:57 K: Quite right.	46:57 克：非常对。
47:01 S: Probably they	47:01 学：可能他们
47:04 K: Quite right! Just listen carefully. The teachers are like you, only much more grown up. Right? I am not insulting them. You understand? I am very polite, respectful I respect people, I don’t insult them. They are like you, so learn from each other. You understand? I am learning now from you why you say things and don’t mean it. Do you understand?	47:04 克：非常对！请用心地听我说。老师们和你们一样，只是比你们年长而已。对吗？我不是在侮辱他们。你们明白吗？我非常有礼貌，充满敬意我尊重人们，我不会侮辱他们。他们和你们一样，所以你们要互相学习。你们明白吗？我现在正在向你学习为什么你们说一些言不由衷的话。你们明白吗？
47:46 S: Yes, sir.	47:46 学：是的，先生。
47:48 K: Why you say, ’Yes, sir, yes, sir’, and don’t mean it at all.	47:48 克：为什么你说，“是的，先生，是的，先生”，心里却完全不认真。
47:51 S: Yes, I do mean it.	47:51 学：是的，我确实是认真的。
47:54 K: That means you live it.	47:54 克：那就意味着你要如此生活。
47:58 S: My ’yes’ meant that I understand it.	47:58 学：我说“是的”的意思是我理解您所说的。
48:01 K: First understand but live it. Right?	48:01 克：首先理解它，但是更要那样去生活。是吗？
48:07 S: So I don’t have that kind of	48:07 学：所以我们有那样的
48:09 K: Listen, old boy, don’t say anything in your life if you don’t live it. If you don’t live it you become a hypocrite. Right? Say one thing and do something else, that is hypocrisy. Right?	48:09 克：听我说，大男孩，在你的人生当中，如果你没有那样生活，就不要那样说。如果你没有那样去生活，你就变成了一个伪君子。对不对？说一套，做一套，那是伪君子的行径。对吗？
48:24 S: Sir, I am not saying anything I am saying I understand what you are saying.	48:24 学：先生，我什么也没说我是说，我理解了您所说的话。
48:28 K: I’ve said to you, understand what I am saying I said, don’t say anything that you don’t mean. If you mean it, say something, and if it is right, be honest. If you say, ’I lie’, say, ’I lied, sir’. That’s honesty. Right? If you are angry, ’Yes, I am angry’, don’t pretend. Grown-ups do. That is the only difference.	48:28 克：我已经对你说了，理解我所说的话我说，如果你不是认真的，就什么也不要说。如果你是认真的，那就说出来，如果的确是那样的，就诚实面对。如果你说，“我撒谎", 就说，“先生，我撒谎了”。那就是诚实。对吗？如果你生气了，就说“是的，我生气了”，不要伪装。成年人会伪装。那就是唯一的不同。
49:12 S: Everyone is different. Right? No one can be the same.	49:12 学：每个人都是不同的。对吗？没有人是一样的。
49:15 K: Yes, sir.	49:15 克：是的，先生。
49:17 S: I mean I tell everyone honestly like I am angry I am this, everyone isn’t going to say that they are angry also.	49:17 学：我的意思是，我诚实地告诉每一个人，比如我生气了我是这样的，但是不是每个人都会说他们也生气了。
49:23 K: What?	49:23 克：什么？
49:26 S: I can put up a little fight with someone	49:26 学：我可能和某人打了个小架了
49:28 K: Why do you have a fight with someone?	49:28 克：你为什么要和某人打架？
49:30 S: Because he	49:30 学：因为他
49:31 K: Hey! Why do you have a fight with someone?	49:31 克：嗨！你为什么要和某人打架？
49:37 S: Because we have come to a disagreement about something.	49:37 学：因为我们对一些事情有不同的看法。
49:39 K: Why do you have disagreement? Learn, don’t say, ’I have disagreement’ and fight him. Learn! If you fight now when you grow up also you will fight, that becomes violence. You know, all over the world violence is spreading you know that, don’t you? They are killing each other, wars, terrorists, you know. You understand? They are killing each other that is tremendous violence in the world. So don’t be violent, don’t get angry. When you get angry say, ’I am angry, I apologise’, don’t fight.	49:39 克：你们为什么会有不同的看法？请学习，不要说，“我们想法不同” 然后就和他打架。请学习！如果你们现在打架等你们长大了，你们还会打架，那会变成暴力。你们知道，暴力在全世界蔓延你们都知道，不是吗？人们彼此杀戮，战争，恐怖分子，你们都知道的。你们明白吗？他们在彼此杀戮在世界上存在着巨大的暴力。所以不要变得暴力，不要生气。当你生气的时候就说，“我生气了，我道歉”，不要打架。
50:31 S: (Inaudible)	50:31 学：（无法听清的）
50:41 S: He said if you don’t fight somebody they can take advantage of you and they can bash you up.	50:41 学：他说如果你不和别人打架他们就会占你的便宜，他们会狠狠地打你。
50:47 K: Perhaps not. If I don’t get angry with the man who wants to get angry, he might quieten down.	50:47 克：或许不会那样。如果我不对那个人生气那个想要生气的人，他或许就会冷静下来。
50:58 S: Might.	50:58 学：可能。
51:00 K: Might, I said, might.	51:00 克：可能，我说了，可能的。
51:01 S: But then	51:01 学：但是然后
51:02 K: Wait, wait.	51:02 克：等一下，等一下。
51:04 S: But suppose the other person is going to hit me and suppose I am not angry with her.	51:04 学：但是假设那个人想要打我假设我不和她生气。
51:12 K: If I don’t react, you understand? You are angry with me – right? Suppose you are angry with me, I won’t react to you I won’t get angry, I won’t hit you back, see what happens.	51:12 克：如果我不作出反应，你明白吗？你对我很生气 - 是吗？假设你对我很生气，我却不对你作出反应我不会生气，我不还手，看看会发生什么。
51:28 S: Sir, sometimes it might aggravate the person.	51:28 学：先生，有时候那会更加激怒那个人。
51:31 K: Not ’sometimes’. See what happens if you get angry with me and I don’t get angry with you in return, something happens between us. Right? If you call me a fool I don’t react by calling you another fool. Right? I don’t react, I keep quiet. So my keeping quiet affects you not always because people are not gentle enough. So you learn. My god! I wanted to talk about something totally different from all this.	51:31 克：不是“有时候”。去看看究竟会发生什么事情，如果你对我生气而回过来我却不对你生气，我们之间就会发生一些事情。对不对？如果你叫我傻瓜我却不做反应，不把你叫作傻瓜。对不对？我不作出反应，我保持静默。所以我的静默影响到了你情况不总是这样，因为人们不够温和。所以你要来学习。天哪！我本来想要谈的是和这些完全不同的东西。
52:21 S: Sir, I don’t understand where all this is leading us.	52:21 学：先生，我不明白，您所说的这一切会把我们引向何处。
52:27 K: You don’t understand – she has asked a question. She says, ’I don’t know where you are leading us’. I am not leading you anywhere.	52:27 克：你不明白 - 她问了我一个问题。她说，“我不知道你要把我们引向何处”。我不把你们引向任何地方。
52:40 S: What are we talking about?	52:40 学：那么我们在谈论些什么呢？
52:42 K: What I am talking about is – learn to watch which is one of the most difficult things to do. Learn to listen, and learn to find out the way of living not just repeat, repeat. Right? That’s what I am saying this morning – don’t become mechanical.	52:42 克：我在谈的是关于 - 学习去观察那是最难做到的事情之一。学习去倾听，学习去发现生活的方式而不是仅仅重复，重复。对吗？这就是我今天早晨所讲的内容 - 不要变得机械。
53:16 S: Sir, you said you wanted to talk about something different. So why don’t you start the topic? Why don’t you start talking about something?	53:16 学：先生，您说您本来想谈完全不同的东西。那么您为什么不现在就开始那个话题呢？为什么您不开始谈论那些事情呢？
53:27 K: Because, sir, I wanted to find out what you were wanting first. Right? I wanted to find out – it’s more polite, isn’t it to find out what you wanted to talked about?	53:27 克：因为，先生，我想知道你们想先谈些什么。对吗？我想要知道你们的想法 - 那才更有礼貌，不是吗搞清楚你们想要讨论的事情？
53:43 S: Well, we want to find out what you want to talk about.	53:43 学：嗯，我们想要搞清楚您想要谈论什么事情。
53:47 K: Quite right. Now I can talk to you about it. Right?	53:47 克：非常好。现在我可以来跟你们谈谈那些东西了。是吗？
53:50 S: Yes, sir.	53:50 学：是的，先生。
53:53 K: First I ask you. Right? I serve you tea first, not myself.	53:53 克：我先问你们想要什么。对不对？我先来为你倒茶，不是给我自己。
53:59 S: Yes, sir.	53:59 学：是的，先生。
54:01 K: In the same way I ask you first what you would like to talk about and you jump, and say all kinds of things. After you have finished if there is time I will talk about what I want to talk about. Right?	54:01 克：同样的，我先来问你们，你们想谈论什么内容你们就跳了出来，并且说了各种各样的事情。当你们说完之后，如果还有时间我再来讨论我想要说的内容。对吗？
54:14 S: What do you want to talk about?	54:14 学：您想要谈些什么呢？
54:19 K: What I wanted to talk about this morning, if I remember rightly was are you sensitive?	54:19 克：今天早晨我本想谈的是，如果我记得没错的话你们是敏感的吗？
54:27 S: To what?	54:27 学：对什么敏感？
54:29 K: Sensitive. You see, your immediate answer is, ’to what’? I am not talking about ’what’. But in yourself are you sensitive? You know what it means to be sensitive?	54:29 克：敏感。你们看，你马上就回答说， “对什么敏感”？我说的不是对“什么”敏感。而是你的内在是敏感的吗？你们知道什么是敏感吗？
54:48 S: To feel.	54:48 学：去感觉。
54:50 K: To feel.	54:50 克：去感觉。
54:51 S: Alert.	54:51 学：警觉。
54:52 K: Alert.	54:52 克：警觉。
54:53 S: Understand.	54:53 学：理解。
54:54 K: No.	54:54 克：不。
54:56 K: You are sensitive to those flowers, aren’t you? Are you sensitive to people?	54:56 克：你们对那些鲜花很敏感，是吗？你们对人们敏感吗？
55:05 S: People?	55:05 学：人们?
55:06 K: All around, these boys and girls, grown-up people, are you sensitive to see what they are feeling how they look, what they do, sensitive.	55:06 克：周围所有的人，男孩们女孩们，成年人，你敏感吗能够明白他们的感受吗他们的外貌，他们所做的事情，敏感。
55:17 S: Sir, only to people who are around me most of the time.	55:17 学：是的，先生，大部分时间里，我仅仅对我周围的人敏感。
55:20 K: Yes. Not even that.	55:20 克：是的。甚至对他们你也不敏感。
55:22 S: Not all the time.	55:22 学：不是一直如此。
55:24 K: No. So, are you sensitive? You say, ’Occasionally I am sensitive’. That’s not good enough. It’s like having a bad potato. So I was going to talk about sensitivity. Then I was going to talk about what is your relationship – you understand the word? what is your relationship to what is happening in the world? You understand what I am asking? Your relationship. You are related to your father and mother. Right? Are you related in some way to the rest of the world to what is happening in the world?	55:24 克：不是。那么，你敏感吗？你说， “有时候我是敏感的”。那还不够好。那就像吃到了一口坏土豆。所以我本来打算讨论敏感的问题。接着我还打算讨论你们的关系是什么 - 你们理解这个词吗？你们和这个世界上正在发生的事情有什么关系？你们理解我所问的问题吗？你们的关系。你们和你们的父母有关系。对吗？你们和世界上的其他人有某种关系吗和世界上正在发生的事情有某种关系吗？
56:11 S: Yes.	56:11 学：是的。
56:13 K: Wait, wait, listen to me. 2500 people were killed in Bhopal, and hundreds of thousands of people hurt, what do you feel about that?	56:13 克：等一下，等一下，听我说。 2500人在波帕尔（中印城市）被杀害了，还有无数的人受伤了，你们对此有什么感受？
56:29 S: I feel sad.	56:29 学：我感到悲伤。
56:31 K: You feel sad, then what?	56:31 克：你感到悲伤，然后呢？
56:34 S: You feel that carelessness takes place everywhere. Just due to a small leak, sheer carelessness.	56:34 学：你觉得人们的冷漠随处可见。仅仅因为很小的分歧，人们就如此冷漠。
56:41 K: So are you – listen carefully what I am asking are you sensitive to other people’s suffering?	56:41 克：你也是一样的 - 用心听我所问的问题你对其他人的痛苦是敏感的吗？
56:50 S: No, sir.	56:50 学：不，先生。
56:52 K: Wait, I have asked you a question. Are you sensitive to other people’s suffering?	56:52 克：等一下，我问了你一个问题。你对其他人的痛苦敏感吗？
57:00 S: Sir, quite often I am the one who inflicts the suffering.	57:00 学：先生，通常来说我就是那个造成痛苦的人。
57:06 K: You are being very clever, old boy. I am asking you a question, you are also asking something else. I am asking you – I am as clever as you are – I am asking you are you sensitive to other people’s suffering, strangers?	57:06 克：你非常聪明，大男孩。我正在问你一个问题，你同时也在问一些其他的事情。我在问你 - 我和你一样聪明 - 我在问你你对他人的痛苦敏感吗，你对陌生人的痛苦敏感吗？
57:28 S: Not as much as others.	57:28 学：没有其他人那么敏感。
57:30 K: You are not. That’s it. You are not. Why? You know, yesterday, the day before yesterday I was walking down there there were two girls, blue with white stripes, students, I believe. They walk six miles that way, six miles that way, twelve miles a day. Are you sensitive to how they feel about walking all day?	57:30 克：你不敏感。就是这样。你不敏感。为什么？你们知道，昨天，前天我正走在那边的路上那里有两个女孩子，穿着蓝白条的衣服，我想她们是学生。她们要走六英里过去，再走六英里回来，一天要走十二英里。你们敏感吗，知道她们整天都走路的感受吗？
58:07 S: No sir, because it doesn’t affect me. It doesn’t affect my life.	58:07 学：不，先生，因为那对我没有影响。对我的生活没有影响。
58:11 K: Quite right. So, you are not sensitive to others.	58:11 克：非常对。所以，你对他人并不敏感。
58:14 S: Only myself.	58:14 学：只对我自己敏感。
58:17 K: You are selfish.	58:17 克：你是自私的。
58:20 S: Sir, quite often you are sensitive. You feel sorry for a person, like when people died in Bhopal.	58:20 学：先生，可你也常常是敏感的。你为一个人感到难过，就像为那些死在波帕尔的人难过一样。
58:26 K: I said to you, look, don’t be clever with me. Are you aware of those boys and girls walking twelve miles a day not having enough food, they are suffering how do you feel about all that? You don’t care?	58:26 克：我对你说，你看，不要跟我耍小聪明。你能注意到那些男孩和女孩的存在吗他们一天要走十二英里没有足够的食物吃，他们在受苦你对这一切是什么感觉？你不在乎吗？
58:50 S: I do care.	58:50 学：我确实在乎。
58:51 K: Then what do you do?	58:51 克：那么你要做些什么？
58:57 S: What can I do, sir?	58:57 学：我能做什么呢，先生？
59:01 K: You can’t do very much, but you can tell Mrs Thomas and Mrs Radhikaji say, ’Look, let’s find out how we can help them, let’s find out a bus for them, so that they can go there and come back’. You work for it, you do something, you don’t say, ’Yes’. Right? Right? Will you do it?	59:01 克：你做不了太多，但是你可以告诉托马斯夫人和瑞迪卡吉夫人说，“听我说，让我们来看看我们如何可以帮到她们，让我们来为她们找一辆巴士，那么她们就可以乘车来去了。你会想办法，你会有所作为，而不只是说，”是的“。对吗？对吗？你会那样做吗？
59:27 S: Sir	59:27 学：先生
59:28 K: Wait a minute, I am asking. Will you go to Mrs Thomas and Radhikaji and say, please, sirs, or ladies, we must do something about it. Will you? Hey, will you? Or you don’t care?	59:28 克：等一下，我在问你。你会去找托马斯夫人和瑞迪卡吉吗和她们说，请你们，先生们，或者女士们，我们必须为此做点什么。你会那样做吗？嗨，你会吗？还是你不在乎？
59:57 S: I do care, sir.	59:57 学：我确实在乎，先生。
59:59 K: Then go to them, as I am going to them. I want to have a bus for those children. I would pick them up and drive them there or have a school for them all here, out there – not just out there! I am working, I am going to talk I am going to raise trouble if they don’t do it.	59:59 克：那就去找他们，就像我会去找他们一样。我想为那些孩子找一辆巴士。我想用车去接他们，然后再把他们送过去或者在这里为他们所有人办个学校，就办在那里 - 不仅仅是在那边！我在想办法，我要和人们谈一谈这件事如果他们不那样做，我会找麻烦的。
1:00:34 S: So you can, sir.	1:00:34 学：你能那么做，先生。
1:00:36 K: You do it, you help me to do it will you?	1:00:36 克：你来做，你来帮我去做好吗？
1:00:40 S: If you tell me, I will.	1:00:40 学：如果你让我那样做，我会的。
1:00:42 K: I won’t tell you, you go and do it. That’s where your independence is. So, I want to talk to you about sensitivity I want to talk to you about your relationship to the world. You are growing up, you are going to leave this lovely place Rishi Valley, and go to college, university, get married, children and jobs, and quarrels, and misery, all that which your life is going to be and what is your relationship to the rest of the world to violence, to politics to the tremendous corruption in this country? Right?	1:00:42 克：我不会让你去做，你自己去做。那就是你的独立之处。所以，我想和你们谈谈敏感的问题我想和你们谈谈你们和世界的关系。你们在长大，你们会离开这个可爱的地方瑞希山谷，去上学院，大学，结婚，生孩子找工作，与人争吵，承受痛苦，所有的那一切那就是你的人生中将要发生的事情那么你和世界上其他的人有怎样的关系你和暴力的关系，和政治的关系是什么和这个国家里巨大的腐败的关系是什么？对不对？
1:01:36 S: Then you would become so selfish if you have all that	1:01:36 学：如果你有那些东西，你就会变得非常自私
1:01:40 K: You don’t get selfish, you are concerned. You are concerned with this tremendous corruption.	1:01:40 克：你不要变得自私，你关注那些事情。你关注那巨大的腐败。
1:01:50 S: Sir, what can we do about it?	1:01:50 学：先生，对此我们能做些什么呢？
1:01:53 K: Don’t be corrupt.	1:01:53 克：不要变得腐败。
1:01:55 S: Yes, but how	1:01:55 学：是的，但是怎么做呢
1:01:57 K: Wait, you haven’t listened, you are too quick. Don’t you be corrupt fight for it, stand for something that you think is wrong.	1:01:57 克：等一下，你没有听我说。你太快了。你不要变得腐败为之抗争，站出来反对那些你认为是错误的事情。
1:02:09 S: And if someone disagrees fight him?	1:02:09 学：那么如果有人和我意见相左，要和他打架吗？
1:02:13 K: I meant fight in the sense, you don’t get corrupted.	1:02:13 克：我所说的抗争是指，你不要变得腐败。
1:02:19 S: So I don’t get corrupted but	1:02:19 学：那么我不变得腐败，但是
1:02:21 K: It doesn’t matter, leave the others, don’t you get corrupted.	1:02:21 克：不要紧，不要管其他的人，你不要变得腐败。
1:02:26 S: I do.	1:02:26 学：我不会的。
1:02:29 K: When you grow up, now you can say, ’Yes, I won’t get corrupt when you grow up and go into business.	1:02:29 克：当你长大以后，你就可以说， “是的，我不会变得腐败当你长大进入生意场的时候。
1:02:36 S: It won’t be any use if only one person is not corrupt.	1:02:36 学：如果只有一个人不腐败那是没有用的。
1:02:43 K: Begin with yourself first.	1:02:43 克：首先从你自己开始。
1:02:46 S: OK, so you are not corrupt – I am just giving an example and you go for a job and there is the managing director interviewing you and he directly asks you for a bribe or you don’t get the job.	1:02:46 学：好的，那么你不腐败 - 我只是举一个例子你去找一份工作，那里有个常务董事在面试你他直接向你索要贿赂，否则你就无法得到那份工作。
1:02:58 K: Don’t get a job. Why don’t you stand for something?	1:02:58 克：那么就不要那份工作。你为什么不能站出来支持点什么？
1:03:10 S: Without a job I cannot live.	1:03:10 学：没有工作我无法生活。
1:03:14 K: Don’t live.	1:03:14 克：那就不要生活。
1:03:17 S: Then what is the purpose of coming into the world?	1:03:17 学：那么来到这个世界上又有什么意义呢？
1:03:21 K: Find out. You see, you are all so weak, you give in. Suppose you say, ’No, sorry, I won’t be corrupt’, and you collect people around you, you work for it.	1:03:21 克：去搞清楚。你看，你们都是如此软弱，你们总是屈从。假如你说，“不，抱歉，我不会腐败的”，那么你会吸引你身边的人们，你们共同努力。
1:03:40 S: Sir, but if there are only five people around me	1:03:40 学：先生，但是如果我身边只有五个人
1:03:42 K: That’s good enough. Begin.	1:03:42 克：那就足够了。开始吧。
1:03:46 S: Sir, suppose there is a person who is incorrupt but he is insensitive and everybody around him is insensitive how will they know what he is trying to do?	1:03:46 学：先生，假如有一个人他不腐败但是他却不敏感而且他周围的人也都不敏感人们又怎么会知道他想要做些什么呢？
1:03:58 K: I will tell them. I am doing this. Listen to me. I am going round the world saying, ’Religions as they are, are rubbish’. Right? They don’t like it, I don’t mind. If they say to me ’You can’t come into this country’, I don’t mind. I can always come back to Rishi Valley – if they will allow me. I don’t mind. But you, people, mind, you are all so frightened.	1:03:58 克：我会告诉他们。我在这样做。听我说。我走遍全世界对人们说， “现在的各种宗教，都是垃圾”。对不对？他们不喜欢我所说的话，我不在乎。如果他们对我说“你不能到我们的国家来”，我不在乎。我总是可以回到瑞希山谷来 - 如果他们允许我来的话。我不在乎。但是你们，人们，都在乎，你们都非常的害怕。
1:04:36 S: Sir, but we don’t have anything else to do, if we go for a job and don’t get it then we don’t have anything else to do.	1:04:36 学：先生，但是我们没什么其他可做的事情，如果我们去找工作却没有找到，那么我们就没有其他可做的事情了。
1:04:42 K: If you don’t get a job	1:04:42 克：如果你们找不到工作
1:04:46 S: You don’t want to be corrupt and you don’t want to accept the bribe then you don’t get the job, then what can you do after that?	1:04:46 学：你不想变得腐败，你不想接受贿赂那么你就找不到工作，然后你又能做些什么呢？
1:04:54 K: Become a gardener. What is wrong with becoming a gardener what is wrong with being poor? Educatedly poor – what’s wrong?	1:04:54 克：成为一名园丁。成为一名园丁有什么不好做穷人有什么不好？作个有教养的穷人 - 那有什么错？
1:05:06 S: How do you live?	1:05:06 学：你如何生存？
1:05:25 S: What is the use of this education?	1:05:25 学：你受的教育有什么用？
1:05:28 K: What is the use of this education? Probably none at all.	1:05:28 克：你受的教育有什么用？或许什么用也没有。
1:05:33 S: Being literate you can’t go for gardening.	1:05:33 学：有文化的人不能去作园丁。
1:05:43 K: Then you do something literate. You, people, never – you are all so I won’t use certain words – you are all so mediocre. That’s what I am objecting to.	1:05:43 克：那么你做些有文化的事情。你们，人们，从来都不 - 你们都是如此的我不想用某些词 - 你们都是如此的平庸。那正是我所反对的。
1:06:00 S: What does that mean?	1:06:00 学：那是什么意思？
1:06:02 K: Mediocre means – in the English language mediocre means ’going up the hill half way never going to the top of it’. You understand that? Don’t become a mediocre.	1:06:02 克：平庸的意思是 - 在英语里平庸指“爬山爬到一半永远都上不到山顶”。你们明白吗？不要变得平庸。
1:06:22 S: Why have we given such positions to people, like a gardener we say that he is something different from us, and none of us want to become gardeners because it will be something	1:06:22 学：我们为什么给人们那些职位，比如园丁我们会说园丁是和我们不同的，并且我们所有的人都不想成为园丁，因为那是一种
1:06:36 K: Because, I don’t mind being a gardener I don’t care what people think whether I am a minister or somebody, I don’t care. I do what I think is right.	1:06:36 克：因为，我不介意成为一名园丁我不在乎人们怎么想不管我是个首相或其他的什么人，我不在乎。我做我认为正确的事情。
1:06:51 S: So if we all do what we think is right	1:06:51 学：所以如果我们都做自己认为是正确的事情
1:06:54 K: No, that is very difficult to find out what is right not what you think is right – what is right. That’s very difficult. Right? I think this is right – it may be wrong.	1:06:54 克：不，要找出什么是正确的，这非常困难不是你认为什么是正确的 - 而是什么是正确的。那非常困难。是不是？我认为这是正确的 - 但是那可能是错误的。
1:07:13 S: Everyone around us tells us, ’You must do this because this is right’.	1:07:13 学：我们周围的每个人都对我们说， “你必须这么做，因为这是正确的”。
1:07:19 K: That is just tradition, that is the authority. I want to find out what is right – don’t you? How will you find out?	1:07:19 克：那正是传统，那是权威。我想搞清楚什么是正确的 - 你们不想吗？你如何来搞清楚？
1:07:28 S: Sir, won’t that be an opinion. Because right for one person can be wrong for another.	1:07:28 学：先生，难道那不是个想法吗。因为对一个人来说是正确的事情，对另外一个人可能是错误的。
1:07:33 K: I said to you, old boy, you didn’t listen, you didn’t listen. Everybody thinks he is right in his own way. Right? You think this is right, another thinks that is right, or wrong but I want to find out what is right – listen carefully under all circumstances, under all pressures under all what the public says – I want to find out what is right. Don’t you? And it is difficult to find out what is right. To find out what is right you cannot have opinions judgements, convictions. Right? So, you perceive what is right when there is freedom	1:07:33 克：我对你说过了，大男孩，你没有听我说，你没有听。每个人都认为自己的方式是正确的。对吗？你认为这是正确的，另一个人认为那是正确的，或者错误的但是我想找出什么是正确的 - 用心地听我说无论环境如何，无论有多大的压力无论大众怎么说 - 我想搞清楚什么是正确的。你们不想吗？但是要搞清楚什么是正确的，这是很困难的。要搞清楚什么是正确的，你就不能有各种想法判断和坚定的信念。对吗？所以，当有自由的时候你就能察觉到什么是正确的
1:08:34 S: Only when you have complete freedom.	1:08:34 学：只有当你有完完全全的自由的时候。
1:08:38 K: Complete freedom, that’s right. When you have complete freedom then you see what is right.	1:08:38 克：完全的自由，没错。当你有完全的自由时，你就会明白什么是正确的。
1:08:45 S: Sir, but how do you gain freedom?	1:08:45 学：先生，但是你如何获得自由呢？
1:08:48 K: How do you gain freedom? You don’t gain freedom. Freedom exists, comes, if you are not attached if you are not self-interested – you understand? If you are not selfish.	1:08:48 克：你如何获得自由？你无法获得自由。自由存在，出现，如果你不执著如果你不自私自利 - 你明白吗？如果你不自私。
1:09:02 S: Then you are free.	1:09:02 学：那么你就自由了。
1:09:05 K: Then there is freedom, then what you see then is right.	1:09:05 克：那么就有了自由，接着你所看到的就是正确的了。
1:09:11 S: But I can’t live alone in the world.	1:09:11 学：但是我无法孤独地生活在世界上。
1:09:14 K: I don’t mind living alone in the world.	1:09:14 克：我不介意孤独地活在这个世界上。
1:09:16 S: No, sir.	1:09:16 学：不，先生。
1:09:18 K: You mind it, you are frightened.	1:09:18 克：你介意，你觉得很害怕。
1:09:19 S: So how do you get rid of selfishness?	1:09:19 学：那么你要如何去除自私呢？
1:09:22 K: How do you get rid of selfishness? Shall I tell you a very simple way? Don’t be selfish!	1:09:22 克：你要如何去除自私？我可以告诉你一个非常简单的方法吗？不要自私！
1:09:29 S: It is not the same though.	1:09:29 学：可是这和我问的不是一回事。
1:09:31 K: Just listen, girl. Don’t be selfish. You know what selfishness is. Don’t be. Don’t say, ’I am going to get rid of it’, don’t be selfish. Therefore learn what it means to be selfish, watch.	1:09:31 克：听我说，孩子。不要自私。你知道自私是什么。不要自私。不要说，“我要去除自私”，不要自私。因此了解什么是自私，观察它。
1:09:49 S: Everything leads to watching.	1:09:49 学：每个问题都通向了观察。
1:09:50 K: Yes, sir. Watching. You learn an infinite lot watching. I learn a great deal by watching you walking down the road how you walk how you talk what you say, whether you say exactly what you mean or trying to double cross – you follow? – double talk. I learn, I watch. That’s one of the things. First I wanted to find out if you are sensitive then what is your relationship with the world then are you different from the world? The world is violent, are you violent? The world is corrupt, are you corrupt? The world is violent, are you violent? Right? The world is saying, ’I am British, I am French I am an Indian, I am a Russian, I am a Muslim’. Right? Therefore there is conflict among them. So I won’t be any of them.	1:09:50 克：是的，先生。去观察。通过观察，你可以学习到无限多的东西。通过观察你从那条路走过来，我知道了很多东西你是怎么走的你是如何说话的你说了什么，你确实说出了心中所想呢还是想欺骗别人 - 你明白吗？ - 花言巧语。我学习，我观察。那是我所做的事情之一。首先我想搞清楚你们是否敏感然后是，你们和世界的关系是什么然后是，你和世界是不同的吗？世界充满暴力，你是暴力的吗？世界是腐败的，你腐败吗？世界充满暴力，你暴力吗？对吗？世界上的人都在说， “我是英国人，我是法国人我是印度人，我是俄罗斯人，我是穆斯林”。对吗？因此他们之间产生了冲突。所以我不想成为他们任何人中的一员。
1:11:14 S: Sir, the world is also saying, ’I am Ajit, I am Gotlick, I am Gotham’.	1:11:14 学：先生，世上的人也在说，“我是阿吉特人，我是高力克人，我是高汉姆人”。
1:11:24 K: Of course you are Gotham, you are a different name, that is natural. But don’t be nationalistic.	1:11:24 克：当然你是高汉姆人，你的名字不一样，这很自然。但是不要成为一个国家主义者。
1:11:32 S: Isn’t it the same thing, sir, when I say my name is this and I say that this is my country, isn’t it the same thing?	1:11:32 学：难道那不是一回事吗，先生，当我说我的名字是这个或者我说这是我的国家，难道那不是一回事吗？
1:11:39 K: Same. Quite right. That is selfish. You identify yourself with something greater but selfishness still remains. Now, wait a minute, it is now quarter to two, nearly. Right? We have talked an hour and a quarter. They are all getting restless, so let’s stop. Will you sit quietly now for 5 minutes, absolutely quiet? Don’t move, take a comfortable position, then sit very quietly really quietly, don’t cough, close your eyes and see watch your thinking. All right, sirs. Thank you for listening to me. Right?	1:11:39 克：一样的。非常对。那是自私。你从一些伟大的事物那里寻找认同但是自私仍然存在。现在，等一下，现在已经是差一刻两点了，差不多。是吗？我们已经讨论了一个小时一刻钟。他们都已经坐不住了，那么我们结束吧。现在你们能安静地坐上五分钟吗，完全安静地坐着？不要动，找一个舒适的姿势，然后非常安静地坐着真正安静地坐着，不要咳嗽，闭上眼睛然后看看观察你的思想。好的，先生们。谢谢你们听我讲话。好吗？
1:13:43 S: Thank you, sir.	1:13:43 学：谢谢您，先生。
1:13:46 K: You’re Gotham, are you? What’s your name?	1:13:46 克：你是高汉姆人，是吗？你的名字是什么？
1:13:51 S: Ajit.	1:13:51 学：我是阿吉特人。

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