克里希那穆提 - 腐败的根源何在？

Krishnamurti Subtitles

RV84DS3 - 腐败的根源何在？
与学生们的第三次讨论
瑞希山谷学校
1984年12月20日

0:38	Krishnamurti: What would you like to talk about?	克：你们想讨论些什么呢？
0:43	Student: Pride.	学：骄傲。
0:47	K: Pride. Are you proud? S: At times.	克：骄傲。你骄傲吗？学：有时候是。
0:53	K: Sometimes. Why? What are you proud about?	克：有时候。为什么？你因为什么而骄傲呢？
1:00	S: Achieving something.	学：为成就某事而骄傲。
1:03	K: Achieving. What have you achieved? Or you are admiring people who have achieved or do you want to achieve? Is that what you want to talk about – pride, achievement, success, money, position, power? Is that what you all want? Probably you all do. Don’t fool yourself, don’t deceive yourself, you all want to have those things.	克：成就。你已经成就了什么？还是说你钦佩那些有所成就的人或者是你想有所成就？那就是你想讨论的吗- 骄傲，成就，成功，金钱地位，权力。这是你们所有人都想要的吗？或许你们都想要那些。不要愚弄你自己，不要欺骗你自己你们都想拥有那些东西。
1:54	S: No, sir, we all want it because in this world we can’t live without those things.	学：不，先生，我们都想要那些是因为在这个世界上没有那些东西我们无法生存。
2:04	K: In these times, the boy says, we can’t live without those things. How do you know?	克：那个男孩说，在这样的时代，没有那些东西我们无法生存。你是怎么知道的？学：你无论在哪看到一个穷人
2:10	S: Anywhere you see a poor man...	克：你到这边来！
2:14	K: You come out here!	学：你无论在哪看到一个穷人，或者其他什么，先生
2:22	S: Anywhere you see a poor man, or anything, sir, they’ll argue if you don’t give them anything, or if you try to make them a nice man, they won’t give you any respect.	如果你不给他们点什么，他们就会批评你，或者如果你试图试图把他们改造成好人，他们是完全不会尊重你的。
2:32	K: So what do you want to be?	克：那么你想成为什么样的人呢？
2:35	S: Anything which we can achieve enough respect for living a happy life, but not too much respect.	学：为了过上幸福的生活，我愿意做任何能为我们赢得充分尊重的事但是也不要太多的尊重。
2:45	K: You are quite right – not too much respect but a fairly comfortable life, and a happy life. Is that it? S: Yes.	克：你说的非常对- 不要太多的尊重但是要过上相当舒适的生活，幸福的生活。是这样吗？学：是的。
2:56	K: Is that what you want? S: Yes.	克：那就是你想要的吗？学：是的。
2:58	K: Then go after it.	克：那就去追求那样的生活吧。
3:00	S: Sir, but it is not so easy unless you try and achieve it.	学：先生，但是那并不太容易，除非你努力去成就它。
3:09	K: Any other questions?	克：还有其他的问题吗？
3:12	S: What is the difference between meditation and concentration? What is the difference between meditation and concentration?	学：冥想和专注有什么区别？学：冥想和专注有什么区别？
3:32	K: I understood. Do you really want to talk about that, or is it a game or just fun to talk about something I may be interested in, is that it? Do you really want to know what is meditation and concentration? All right, sir. If you really want to talk about that, will you pay attention to what I am going to say?	克：我明白了。克：你真的想要讨论这个问题吗，还是只是把它当做一个游戏或者只是觉得讨论些我可能感兴趣的事情会很有趣，是这样吗？你真的想要知道什么是冥想和专注吗？好的，先生。如果你真的想要讨论这个问题你能够全神贯注于我将要说到的内容吗？
4:14	S: Yes, sir.	学：是的，先生。
4:15	K: Don’t say, ‘Yes, sir’, and fidget. Do you really want to talk about it? If you do, it is a very, very serious subject. What do you think is concentration?	克：不要说，“是的，先生”，然后坐立不安。你们真的想要讨论这个问题吗？如果你们想要讨论这个问题，那么它是个非常非常严肃的题目。你们认为专注是什么？
4:35	S: Something which you really want to think about, sir. Think about deeply, go into it deeply, think about it deeply.	学：那些你真正想要思考的事情，先生。深入地思考，深入地探究，就那一点深入地思考。
4:46	K: Think about it deeply. S: Think about it deeply.	克：就那一点深入地思考。学：就那一点深入地思考。
4:49	K: Think about it deeply – what do you mean by that?	克：就那一点深入地思考- 你这么说是什么意思？
4:53	S: Something which we want to keep our minds on.	学：那些我们想要将头脑专注其上的事情。
5:01	K: Come over here! Something you want to keep you mind on. Right? Have you tried it? You want to look at those flowers, or your book, or what your educator is saying. Have you ever looked at it very carefully, at those flowers, what the teacher is telling you, listen to him and concentrate on a book, have you?	克：到这边来！那些你想要将头脑专注其上的事情。对吗？你们试过那样做吗？你想看看那些花，或者读你的书或者听你的老师正在说的话。你是否非常用心地看过那些花倾听老师正在告诉你些什么，去倾听他专注于一本书，你有那样做过吗？
5:50	S: Sometimes. K: Sometimes. When does that happen? When you like it – right? S: Yes.	学：有时候。克：有时候。什么时候？当你喜欢所做的事情的时候 - 对吗？学：是的。
5:59	K: Now, when you like something you put your attention, your thought, your energy in observing it. Right? And that is generally called concentration. That is, you concentrate on the book you are reading – right? – or on something that you are looking very carefully, at those flowers – right? – or what your friend, or your teacher is telling you. Right?	克：那么，当你喜欢做某事的时候，你就会投入你的注意力，投入思索投入你的精力去观察它。对吗？通常那就被称作专注。也就是说，你专注于你正在阅读的书 - 对吗？或者专注于你正非常用心地看着的东西譬如说那些花- 对吗？或者专注于你的朋友或者老师正在告诉你的事情。对吗？
6:40	S: Yes.	学：是的。
6:44	K: Have you ever watched very carefully, concentrated on something for a long time? Not for a second or two but for a long time. Have you done it?	克：你曾经非常用心地观察过吗曾经长时间地专注于某件事吗？不是只观察一两秒钟，而是长时间地观察你曾经那样做过吗？
7:04	S: I don’t know, sir. K: Yes, try it now. Try now to listen very carefully to what somebody is saying to you or look at those flowers for a long time, not allow any other thought to come in. That’s what concentration means – focusing, giving all your attention to something that you are listening to, or reading a book, or watching something, a lizard going across the wall. Will you do it, are you doing it now?	学：我不知道，先生。克：是，现在就试一下。现在试着非常用心地倾听某人正在对你说的话或者长时间地看着那些花不让任何其他想法介入。那就是专注的意思，集中于一点投注你所有的注意力在某件你在倾听的事情上或者阅读一本书或者在观察某物，观察一只爬过墙面的蜥蜴。你会那样做吗，你现在正在那样做吗？
7:57	S: Yes. K: You are? Good! Now, when that takes place what happens?	学：是的。克：你在那样做？很好！那么，当你那样做时，会发生什么事？
8:06	S: We understand it.	学：我们会理解它。
8:09	K: Not only you understand, but what is happening? I’ll explain to you presently, you think it out for yourself. Where do you come from?	克：你不但会理解它，而且还发生着什么事情？我等一下会向你解释，你自己来想想明白。你从哪里来？
8:28	S: Bangalore. K: Bangalore, good. I have got two boys – now two girls? Now, he wants to know what is the difference between concentration and meditation. Right? You don’t know the word ‘meditation’, do you, what it means? No. Nor do you know the meaning of the word ‘concentration’?	学：班加罗尔。克：班加罗尔，好的。我这儿已经有两个男孩了- 那么再来两个女孩吧？现在，他想要知道专注与冥想有什么区别。对吗？你们不知道“冥想”这个词是什么意思，对不对？不知道。你们也不知道“专注”这个词的意思？
9:05	S: Now I think I know. K: Now you know because I have pointed it out to you. So concentration means ‘focusing your thought, your energy on something’. Come over here! Move a bit so that we give her more room. She is a big girl. Right? She is a big girl.	学：现在我想我知道了。克：现在你知道了因为我向你们指出了它的意思。所以专注是指“将你的思想，精力集中于某事”。学：先生(无法听清的) 克：到这里来！请你挪一下，这样可以给她腾出点地方。她是个大女孩。对吗？她是个大女孩。
9:45	S: But isn’t it difficult to concentrate on something without any thought in your mind?	学：但是要头脑里什么想法也没有而专注于某件事不是很困难吗？
9:50	K: That’s it. Is it not difficult – listen to it carefully – is it not difficult to concentrate on something without thoughts coming in?	克：是这样的。难道那不是很难吗- 用心地听一下这点难道要做到没有任何想法进入而专注于某件事不是很困难吗？
10:04	S: I think it is.	学：我想是的。
10:06	K: It is difficult, isn’t it? So, then what do you do?	克：那很困难，不是吗？那么，接着你要怎么做？
10:13	S: We try and keep the other thoughts away.	学：我们试着把其他的想法赶走。
10:15	K: Away. Then who keeps the – I won’t make it complicated for you. So, you concentrate on a book and other thoughts come in. Right?	克：赶走。那么是谁在赶走- 我不想把这个问题弄得太复杂。所以，你专注于一本书，其他的想法却跑进你的头脑。对吗？学：是的。
10:30	S: Yes.	克：接着你会做什么？
10:33	K: Then what do you do?	学：你努力把他们赶走。
10:38	S: You try to keep them away.	克：是的，你试着将其他的想法推开。
10:40	K: Yes, you try to push other thoughts away. Now what goes on in that process? I am concentrating on this, thoughts come in, then I try to push them away, and then thoughts come in. So I keep this, don’t I? Right? S: Yes.	那么在那个过程中出现了什么情况？我正专注于此，一些想法进入我的头脑接着我试图将它们推开然后想法又进入我的头脑。所以我不断地这样做，是吗？对吗？学：是的。
11:06	K: Are you listening to what I am saying? If you are not interested, don’t bother.	克：你在听我所说的话吗？如果你对此不感兴趣，就别费心思了。学：我正在想你会给出怎样一个正确的回答。
11:13	S: I am thinking of an answer which you could give correctly.	克：我听不懂你说什么。
11:19	K: I can’t understand you.	学：我正在想你会怎样针对这个问题给出一个正确的回答。
11:21	S: I am thinking of an answer which you could give correctly for it.	克：你看，先生，我在告诉你，当你专注于某件事时
11:25	K: Look, sir, I was telling you, when you concentrate on something other thoughts come in. Right? Then you try to push those thoughts away and then you try to concentrate. So there is this going on all the time. Right?	其他的想法会跑进你的头脑。对吗？然后你试图将那些想法推开接着你努力去集中注意力。于是你始终循环往复地这么做。对吗？
11:45	S: Why do those thoughts come in?	学：那些想法为什么会跑进头脑来？
11:47	K: Wait, wait, I am coming to that presently. First see what is happening. You want to concentrate on something, then thoughts come in and then you push them out, and again thoughts come in and again you push them out. So, you really are not concentrating, are you? Because thoughts come in and disturb you. Now, he asked, why do thoughts come in. Right? S: Yes.	克：等一下，等一下，我等一下会谈到那一点。首先看看正在发生着什么。你想要专注于某件事接着想法跑进头脑，然后你推开那些想法但是想法再一次跑了进来，你再一次推开它们。所以，你没有真正做到专注，对吗？因为思想介入进来，并且干扰你。现在，他问，为什么思想会介入。对吗？学：是的。
12:19	K: You tell me why thoughts come in. I will tell you.	克：你们来告诉我思想为何会介入。我随后再告诉你们。
12:24	S: I think it is because we think about those things. Because when we are doing something, something else happens and you think about it.	学：我想那是因为我们想到了那些事情。因为当我们正在做某件事时，另外的事情发生了于是你开始想那件事。
12:34	K: Yes, that is, you are thinking about this, you are also thinking about something else. Is that it? S: Yes.	克：对，正是如此，你正在想这件事你同时也在想另外一件事。是这样吗？学：是的。
12:40	K: Why does this happen?	克：为什么会这样？
12:45	S: Sir, if you are thinking that while you are concentrating...	学：先生，如果你正在思考那件事尽管你在集中精神
12:53	K: Come and sit here! Sorry, three boys and a girl.	克：来，坐到这里来！抱歉，这里有三个男孩一个女孩。
13:01	S: Sir, as you try to concentrate you keep thinking that I should not allow thoughts to come in and so they come in. K: Yes, why do they come in?	学：先生，当你试图去专注于某件事你不停地想，我不应该让想法进入头脑而它们就进来了。克：是的，它们为什么会进入头脑？
13:12	S: Because you keep thinking about them.	学：因为你不停地想到那些事。
13:14	K: But you are also thinking about this.	克：但是你也在想这件事。
13:19	S: Because we are suppressing them.	学：因为我们在压抑这些想法。
13:23	K: That’s right. You have got it. You have understood what you have said? Not quite. You are trying to concentrate on this, other thoughts come in, then you try to suppress thoughts, only the other thoughts except this. Right? So what is happening when you suppress? I suppress... I am uncomfortable, I have eaten bad food, and I feel... and I try to suppress my pain. Why do you do that, why do you have suppressions, why do you suppress?	克：正是如此。你找出了答案。你明白你刚才所说的话吗？不是非常明白。你正试图专注于此事，其他的想法却进入头脑接着你试图压抑那些想法，压抑除了这个想法以外其他的想法。对吗？那么当你压抑它们的时候什么事情发生了？我压抑我觉得不舒服因为我吃了不好的食物，我感觉到（不舒服）但是我试图压抑我的疼痛。你为什么那样做，为什么会有压抑感，你为什么要压抑？
14:11	S: Because we think it will be nicer if you suppress they won’t come again, so you suppress it. K: That’s right. So, he says, when you suppress them they come back again. So it is futile to suppress. Right? It would be wrong to suppress, futile to suppress. Then what will you do?	学：因为我们认为，如果你压抑它们，想法就不会再回来那会比较好所以你就压抑它。克：非常正确。所以他说，当你压抑它们的时候，它们还会回来。所以压抑是徒劳的。对吗？去压抑是错误的，徒劳的。那么你要怎么做呢？
14:43	S: If you are really thinking about something very seriously, sir, there are no other thoughts.	学：如果你非常认真地在思考某件事，先生就不会有其他的想法。
14:48	K: But other thoughts come in, old boy.	克：但是其他的想法会介入，孩子。
14:50	S: But when you are really thinking without any other things why should they come in?	学：但是当你心无旁骛地真正在思考时
14:54	K: Now wouldn’t you try to understand why thoughts are always moving back and forth? Right? Wouldn’t you ask that question?	杂念为什么会介入呢？克：那么你是否要试着去了解思想为何总是来来去去的？对不对？你难道不会问这个问题吗？
15:07	S: Sir... Because we suppress thoughts come in and we can’t control them and we lose our concentration. So what should we do because, sir, is it possible that if we just leave it, the other thoughts will go by themselves?	学：先生因为我们压抑着思想的进入，而我们无法控制思想接着我们就失去了专注的状态。所以我们应该怎么做呢，因为，先生，如果我们不管它们，那些想法会自己消失，这可能吗？
15:33	K: I haven’t quite grasped it, have you?	克：我没有完全听懂，你们听懂了吗？
15:38	S: If you don’t do anything with the other thoughts, if you don’t pay attention to them, will they go away? Is that what you are saying?	学：如果你不管其他的那些想法如果你不注意它们，它们会消失吗？你说的是这个意思吗？
15:53	K: Would you come up here? Come up here, sit up here, don’t be nervous. This is a very complex subject, isn’t it? Most people, grown-up people, young people, are told from childhood – are you listening? Listen carefully – from childhood you are told to concentrate. Right? You want to look out of the window and the teacher says, ‘Concentrate on your book’. But you are really interested in watching that lizard on that wall. Right? And the teacher says, ‘Don’t look, pay attention to the book’. So from childhood you are interested in watching the lizard but the teacher says, ‘Do this’.	克：你到这里来好吗？到这里来，坐到这里来，不要紧张。这是一个非常复杂的题目，不是吗？大部分人，成年人们，年轻人们，从小就有人告诉他们你在听吗，请用心听从小就有人告诉你要专心。对吗？你想朝窗外看，老师却说 “请专心看你的书”。但是你真正感兴趣的却是墙上的那只蜥蜴。对吗？老师说，“不要看，注意看你的书”。所以从小你就对观察蜥蜴感兴趣但是老师却说，“做这件事”。
17:18	S: Yes.	学：是的。
17:21	K: Now, if I were your teacher, I would say, ‘Let’s both of us look at that lizard’ – you understand? Not try to force you to look at the book. You have understood what I am saying?	克：现在，如果我是你的老师，我会说 “让我们两个人都来看看那只蜥蜴”- 你明白吗？而不是试图强迫你去看书。你明白我所说的话吗？
17:43	S: Yes, sir.	学：是的，先生。
17:44	K: That is, you are watching that lizard – there is no lizard here! And your interest is in that lizard, not in the book. So I, as a teacher, would tell you, ‘Let both of us watch that lizard very, very carefully, see how it sticks to the wall, how many claws it has, see the head, see the eyes’. Right? S: Yes, sir.	克：也就是说，你正在观察那只蜥蜴- 这里没有蜥蜴！并且你的兴趣在蜥蜴身上，而非书本当中。所以，我作为一名教师，会告诉你，“让我们一起来观察那只蜥蜴非常非常用心地观察，看它是如何粘在墙面上它有几只爪子看它的头部，看它的眼睛”。对吗？学：是的，先生。
18:24	K: I would help you to watch much more that than the book.	克：我会帮助你观察到比书本上更多的东西。
18:30	S: Sir, but I’ve got a question. K: What?	学：先生，但是我有一个问题。克：什么问题？
18:34	S: If the teacher, or in a class children get distracted at different times, like I might get distracted at a certain time and another person might get distracted at another time. And if the teacher tends to all our distractions, sir, how will she cover the portion? K: I am going to show you. You are all so very clever here, aren’t you?	学：如果老师，或者在课堂上孩子们在不同的时间里分心了比如我可能在某个时候分心了而另一个人可能会在其他时候分心。如果老师在我们每个人分心的时候都给予关注，先生她怎么能够顾得上课程那部分？克：我会告诉你怎样做到。你们这里的每个人都非常聪明，不是吗？克：你从哪里来？学：马德拉斯。
19:04	K: Where do you come from? S: Madras.	学：我的父母生活在赞比亚。
19:07	S: My parents live in Zambia.	克：首先，我没有分心。
19:14	K: First of all, I have no distractions. Don’t call it distractions. What is important is that you watch, pay attention, listen, that’s important. But there are no distractions. Don’t use the word ‘distraction’. Right? Now, wait a minute, I help you to watch that lizard or I help you to watch that boy sitting over there being restless, fiddling with his fingers. Right? What I am helping you – not helping – what I am showing you is, when you pay attention to something, whether it is right or wrong, then you can pay attention to the book. You have got it? S: Yes, sir.	不要把那称为分心。重要的是你要观察全神贯注，倾听，那是重要的事情。但是那里没有分心。不要使用“分心”这个词。对不对？现在，请等一下，我会帮助你观察那只蜥蜴或者我会帮助你观察正不安地坐在那里的男孩子他正在乱动他的手指。是不是？我正在帮助你 - 不是帮助- 我正在展示给你看当你全神贯注于某件事不去管它是正确的还是错误的接下来你就可以全神贯注于你的书本了。你明白了吗？学：是的，先生。
20:16	K: Are you sure? S: Yes, sir.	克：你确定吗？学：是的，先生。
20:18	K: That is, when you pay attention to that lizard, you have learnt the art of attention. And I am going to help all the boys or twenty or fifteen boys with me to pay attention. And when there is attention there is no distraction.	克：也就是说，当你全神贯注于那只蜥蜴你就学会了关注的艺术。而且我要帮助所有的男孩子 20个或者15个男孩子和我一起来全神贯注。那么当全神贯注时，是没有分心这回事的。
20:49	S: Then why don’t teachers do that, sir? Suppose we get distracted in the class.	学：那么老师们为什么不那样做呢，先生？比如说我们在课堂上分心了。
20:54	K: There is no distraction, don’t call it distraction.	克：没有什么是分心，不要把它称作是分心。
20:58	S: Suppose we want to watch something, then why don’t the teachers help us to watch that thing?	学：假设我们想要观察某个东西那么为什么老师们不帮助我们观察那个东西呢？
21:05	K: Ask them. I am telling you – come over here. Two girls. Right. Come up here, that’s better! All right? S: Yes, sir.	克：问问他们。我在告诉你- 到这里来两个女孩子。这下对了。到这里来，这样好多了！可以吗？学：是的，先生。
21:24	K: You are not shy? S: No, sir.	克：你不害羞？学：不，先生。
21:26	K: That’s better. You are asking why don’t your teachers tell you all this. Right? S: Yes, sir.	克：这样好多了。你问为什么你的老师们不告诉你这些。对吗？学：是的，先生。
21:34	K: Why don’t they tell you?	克：他们为什么不告诉你？
21:37	S: Sir, I think they want to finish their particular... whatever they wanted to teach us.	学：先生，我想他们想要完成他们各自的科目不管他们想要教给我们什么科目。
21:41	K: That’s right. They want to get it over. They are bored, you are bored. Right? And they want to quickly finish what they have to say and get on to the next subject, or the next class. So they are bored with teaching. Right? Now find out from them why they are bored, why they want to finish quickly, why don’t they help you to pay attention? You understand? If you pay attention to that lizard, then you have learnt the art of attention. Right? Have you got it? Then you can pay attention to the book, then there is no distraction.	克：就是这样。他们想解决自己教的科目。他们觉得无聊，你们也觉得无聊。是吗？而且他们想很快地结束他们必须要讲的东西然后开始下面的科目，或者开始下一节课。所以教学令他们感到无聊。对吗？现在来从他们那里找出他们为什么觉得无聊他们为什么想要很快地结束他们为什么不帮助你们全神贯注？你们明白吗？如果你全神贯注于那只蜥蜴那么你就学到了关注的艺术。对不对？你们明白了吗？接着你就能够全神贯注于你的书本，那么也就不会再有令你分心的事情。
22:39	S: But... K: Wait, wait, wait, old boy. I haven’t finished. If I were your teacher, I would point out to you very carefully what attention is. Right? Attention is to pay complete energy, attention, to what you are watching. Right? And if you learn that, you can learn how to pay attention to your book.	学：但是克：等一下，等一下，等一下，大男孩。我还没有讲完。如果我是你们的老师，我会非常仔细地向你们指出什么是全神贯注。对吗？全神贯注就是将你全部的能量，注意力都投注于你正在观察的事物。对吗？如果你学到了这一点，你就能够学会如何全神贯注于你的书本。
23:26	S: Yes, sir.	学：是的，先生。
23:28	S: You might be interested in the lizard only and you might not like studying, you won’t be interested in your studies.	学：你可能只对蜥蜴感兴趣而且你可能不喜欢学习你就不会对你的学习感兴趣。
23:34	K: Somebody might not like to study. Then don’t study. S: Sir, then you can keep...	克：有人可能不喜欢学习。那么就不要学习。学：先生，那么你可能会保持
23:41	K: Find out, sir, find out. Learn. Find out why you don’t want to read books. Now, you listen to me. We have talked about concentration, that is, you are thinking, paying attention to something, then other thoughts come in and you push those thoughts out. And so there is always this conflict – wanting to pay attention to that, thoughts come in, and so there is constant chattering of the brain, chattering, chattering, chattering. Right? Got it? Now, meditation, the word ‘meditation’ – you know what that word is, you have heard about it?	克：去发现，先生，去找出答案。去了解。去找出你为什么不想读书的原因。现在，你听我说。我们已经谈到了专注的问题，那就是，你正在思考专注于某事，接着其他想法跑进来接着你把那些想法驱赶出去。所以那里总是有冲突- 想要专注于某件事其他想法跑进来，所以头脑中是持续不断的喋喋不休喋喋不休，喋喋不休，喋喋不休。对吗？明白了吗？那么，冥想，“冥想”这个词你知道这个词是指什么吗，你们听说过冥想吗？
24:45	S: Yes, sir.	学：是的，先生。
24:47	K: Meditation in English means also ‘to measure’. Right? ‘To measure’. As in Sanskrit, if you ask...	克：冥想在英语里的意思也指“去衡量”。对吗？“去衡量”。而在梵文里，如果你问
25:07	S: Radhikaji. K: Radhikaji. By Jove, thank you for helping me. If you ask Radhikaji, she will tell you ‘ma’ is also ‘to measure’ in Sanskrit. So meditation also means ‘to measure’. Now, without measurement there is no technological advancement at all. Agree? See that? Do you see all this, what I am saying?	学：瑞迪卡吉。克：瑞迪卡吉。天哪，谢谢你帮了我如果你问瑞迪卡吉，她会告诉你 “ma”在梵文里也是“去衡量”的意思。所以冥想也意味着“去衡量”。那么，如果没有衡量就根本不会有科技的进步。同意吗？明白这一点吗？你们能明白这一切吗，我所说的一切？
25:50	S: I didn’t understand that word which you said.	学：我不明白你说的那个词。
25:53	K: You don’t understand the word I am using?	克：你不理解我所用的那个词吗？
25:56	S: Yes. K: I am using ‘to measure’. You have a tape measure, haven’t you?	学：是的。克：我用的是“去衡量”。你们有卷尺，是吗？学：是的。
26:01	S: Yes.	克：冥想也意味着“衡量”。
26:03	K: Meditation means also ‘measurement’.	学：我想他是不理解“科技”那个词，科技的。
26:10	S: I think he doesn’t understand the word ‘technology’, technological.	克：啊，你不理解“科技”这个词？
26:18	K: Ah, you don’t understand the word ‘technology’? Technique – to do something, say, for instance, you want to build a car and you must know all the parts, put them together, they are all working together. I have dismantled a car, put it all to pieces and then put it all together hoping it will work. But it did work. Right? Learning about all the machinery, how it works, what are its components, what are its measurements, its metallic strength and so on, all that learning about that is called technology, some of it. Now, meditation, concentration, for me, are two entirely different things.	科技 - 做一件事，比如说，你想要造一辆车那么你就必须了解车所有的部件，把它们组装在一起这些部件在一起运转。我曾经拆卸过一部汽车，把它拆成一个个的零件然后将它们装在一起，希望它能够运转起来。结果它真的运转起来了。对不对？学习所有的机械知识，它们是如何运转的，它们的组成部分是什么它们的尺寸是什么它们所使用金属的强度是怎样的，等等，所有的那些学习关于那些的事情就被称作科技，这样的一些事情被称作科技。那么，冥想，专注，对我来说是完全不同的两件事情。
27:24	S: Sir, quite often you concentrate without even trying to concentrate. Like you will be doing something, you don’t need to concentrate, you will be concentrating.	学：先生，经常是，你甚至不需要努力去专注，你就已经在专注了。就像你要去做某件事，你不需要去专注于它然而你已经专注于它了。
27:37	K: You can do something... if you love something, you don’t have to concentrate. Have you understood that? S: Yes, sir.	克：你能够做某件事如果你喜爱这件事，你就不需要努力专注于它。你明白那点了吗？学：是的，先生。
27:45	K: If you love something, there is no concentration. Do you love something? S: Quite a few things.	克：如果你喜爱某件事，就不需要努力专注于它。你有爱好吗？学：相当多。
28:02	K: You love quite a few things. What are they?	克：你的爱好相当多。都是些什么爱好？学：先生，我喜欢读书。
28:08	S: Sir, I like reading books.	克：放风筝？学：是的，先生。
28:12	K: Flying kites? S: Yes, sir.	克：爬山，爬树，追猴子。
28:17	K: Climbing mountains, climbing trees, chasing monkeys. What do you really love?	你真正喜爱的是什么？
28:30	S: Collecting stamps. K: No, just a minute. This is too complex a subject for little boys. Meditation means to be free of measurement. This is too difficult for you all.	学：集邮。克：不，等一下。这对于小男孩们来说实在是太复杂了。冥想意味着摆脱了衡量。这对于你们所有人来说都太难了。
28:54	S: Sir, concentration is something which you force and do something and meditation might be where you don’t force anything.	学：先生，专注是指你强迫自己去做某件事而冥想可能是你不强迫去做任何事情。
29:03	K: That’s right. Meditation can only take place when there is no effort, when there is no contradiction. You know contradiction? Saying one thing, doing another thing. Right?	克：正是那样。冥想只有在毫不费力的情况下才会发生而那里也没有矛盾。你们了解矛盾吗？说一套，做一套。对吗？
29:19	S: Sir, suppose you like reading, then you are really concentrating on it, isn’t that meditation, where you don’t know you are concentrating?	学：先生，假设你喜欢阅读，那么你就真正地专注于它了当你自己都不知道自己在专注的时候，难道那不就是冥想吗？
29:26	K: No, no. You are then trying to understand what the book is saying.	克：不，不。你刚才是在试图理解书本上说的东西。
29:30	S: You don’t know you are concentrating. Like he said you don’t know you are concentrating but you are concentrating.	学：你不知道你正很专注。就像他说的，你不知道自己正在专注于某件事但是你确实很专心。
29:35	K: That is when you like something, when you like to read a good detective story, you enjoy it, don’t you? This is too difficult for you. Don’t bother about meditation and concentration. It is much too difficult. Right?	克：那是当你喜欢做某件事的时候当你喜欢读一本好的侦探小说时你享受阅读，不是吗？这对你们来说太难了。不要费工夫想冥想和专注的问题了。那太难了。
29:57	S: Yes. K: A little bit. Now, I would like to talk about something else. May I? S: Yes, sir.	是不是？学：是的。克：有点难。那么，我想来讨论点别的事情。可以吗？学：是的，先生。
30:05	K: I have asked you what you would like to talk about and then after asking you all these questions I would like to talk to you about something else. May I?	克：我已经问过你们想要讨论些什么那么在问过所有这些问题之后我想要和你们说些其他的事情。可以吗？
30:16	S: Yes, sir. K: All of you?	学：可以，先生。克：你们都愿意吗？
30:18	S: Yes, sir. K: ‘Yes, sir’. Human beings, like you, have capacity, have some kind of hidden talent. Talent – you understand? – that is to paint, to play the violin, to play the flute, or to be a very good human being. Human beings have hidden talents. Right? And your society, your parents, everybody says, ‘Become a businessman or become a doctor, or become an engineer, or become Indian Administrative person, the Service’. Right? So your brain – you understand? – what is inside the skull is conditioned by your parents, or by the society in which you live. You understand? S: Yes, sir.	学：愿意，先生。克：“愿意，先生”。人类，像你们所有人一样，都拥有能力拥有某种隐藏着的天赋。天赋 - 你们理解吗？- 就像绘画，拉小提琴吹笛子，或者成为一个非常好的人。人类都拥有隐藏着的天赋。对不对？然而你们的社会，你们的父母每个人都说，“你要成为一个商人或者成为一名医生，再或者成为一名工程师或者成为印度政府的行政人员，或者去军队服役”。对不对？所以你的头脑，你明白吗，你脑壳里的那个头脑被你的父母所局限，或者被你生活的这个社会所局限。你明白吗？学：是的，先生。
31:41	K: So, your own talent is destroyed by this pressure. You might be a great painter. Right? Or a great singer or a marvellous botanist, horticulturist. Right? But your parents, your society, say, ‘No, that is not good enough, you must become really a businessman, or a good doctor, or IAS’. So you destroy your own talent. And what is important is to have your own talent, then you are happy with it. You understand what I am saying?	克：所以，你自己的天赋被这种压力摧毁了。你本可以是个伟大的画家。对不对？或者是个了不起的歌手或者一位杰出的植物学家，园艺家。对不对？但是你的父母，你所处的社会，说，“不，那还不够好你真的必须成为一名商人或者一个好的医生，或者去航空科学院工作”。所以你摧毁了自己的天赋。然而重要的是你有自己的天赋然后快乐地拥有着它。你们理解我所说的吗？
32:44	S: Sir... K: Listen to what I am saying. I am talking now. And you are listening to me. That is one thing – human beings have essentially, hidden, a certain talent. Right? Not always to become a businessman, or a captain in the army, or a flyer. So you have to discover your own talent, and stick to that talent whether you become poor, rich, successful.	学：先生克：请听我正在说的话。我现在正说着话。而且你在听我说。这是一件事 - 人类原本拥有隐藏着的，某种天赋。对不对？不是全部都要去变成商人，或者军队里的统帅，或者飞行员。所以你必须要发现自己的天赋，并且坚持那天赋不去管你是否会变穷，变富，或者是否成功。
33:33	S: Sir, but it you want to be a businessman and by the side of it you can also sing, or paint, or whatever.	学：先生，但是你想要变成一个商人而在那同时，你可以唱歌，绘画，或者做任何其他的事情。
33:44	K: Clever boys – you have really trained these boys beautifully! They say you can become a businessman, or a General, or an army captain, and also paint. Do you follow how his brain is working? You are quite right, sir. Then you will do neither thing properly, fully, happily.	克：聪明的男孩们 - 你们真是把这些男孩训练得不错！他们说你可以成为一个商人，或者将军或者一名军中的将领，但是同时也绘画。你们看到他的头脑是如何运作的吗？你说的非常对，先生。那样的话，两件事情你都无法恰当地，全然地，快乐地去做。
34:15	S: Why, sir?	学：为什么，先生？
34:16	K: Because you are torn between the two.	克：因为你在两者之间挣扎。
34:19	S: No. K: I know this, I know this. You understand? S: Yes, sir.	学：不。克：我知道，我知道。你明白吗？学：是的，先生。
34:26	K: Wait a minute, I am talking for a while. So, it is very difficult also to discover your own talent. And it might not lead you to success. It doesn’t matter then. You understand? Then you don’t mind not having much money because you have got something in yourself. Right? S: Yes, sir.	克：等一下，我还要再说一会儿。所以，要发现你自己的天赋也是一件很困难的事情。可能它也无法让你成功。然而那并不重要。你明白吗？你并不介意没有很多的钱因为你内在有这样的天赋。对不对？学：是的，先生。
35:05	K: So find out, all of you, find out your own talent, something of your own, not imposed by education, by your parents, by society, but find out something that you have for yourself.	克：那么请找出它，你们所有的人，去发现自己的天赋，你自己所拥有的不是教育强加给你的，不是父母告诉你的，社会告诉你的.. 而是去发现你自己所拥有的东西。
35:25	S: But if our parents force us to do something.	学：但是如果父母强迫我们做某件事那该怎么办。
35:28	K: I know your parents force you to become an engineer, force you to become something or other. But while you are young play the game and say, ‘Yes, I accept that’ and find out for yourself.	克：我知道你的父母强迫你变成一名工程师强迫你成为这样或那样。但是当你年纪还小，你可以和他们玩个游戏说，“好吧，我接受” 然后自己去发现自己的天赋。
35:43	S: But supposing something happens to you.	学：但是假设你遇到了某件事。
35:46	K: I know, just listen to what I am saying. Because I have got something more to say. Right? S: Yes.	克：我知道，请好好听我正在讲的话。因为我还有其他一些要讲的。好吗？学：好的。
35:56	K: You don’t mind? S: No, sir.	克：你不介意？学：不介意，先生。
35:59	K: And also you are going to enter into a world when you leave this marvellous valley with all the rocks, and the shadows, and the trees, and the flowers, and the really peaceful campus, you are going to face a world that is terrible. Right? There is violence, kidnapping, shooting, bribing. The world is becoming more and more dangerous. Right? And the world is becoming corrupt, all over the world, not only in India where it is quite blatant. You know what the word ‘blatant’ means? Quite open. They say, ‘Give me something before I will do something else’. There is corruption. Right? All over the world, not only here in this country but in America, in France, in England – political corruption, social corruption, black market and so on. There is tremendous corruption all over the world. Right? We say that corruption is bribing, passing money under the table, paying cash without giving an account. All that is called corruption. Right? But that is only a symptom. Do you know what ‘symptom’ means? S: Yes, sir, signs.	克：而你也要进入这个世界当你离开这个美丽的山谷离开这里所有的岩石，和树荫还有树木，鲜花，以及这非常宁静的校园你将要面对一个可怕的世界。对吗？那里有暴力，绑架枪杀，贿赂。世界已经变得越来越危险。对吗？这个世界正变得腐败全世界都一样，不仅仅是印度在这里这点已经相当露骨了。你们知道“露骨”这个词是什么意思吗？非常公开的。他们说，“想让我做某件事，你必须要给我些什么”。到处是腐败。对吗？全世界都是这样，不仅仅是在这个国家而且在美国，法国英国 - 政治上的腐败社会上的腐败堕落，黑市等等。全世界都有极其严重的腐败。对不对？我们说贿赂是腐败，偷偷地塞钱给别人付现金却不留账目。这一切都是腐败。对吗？但那只是表现出来的一个症状。你们知道“症状”是什么意思吗？学：是的，先生，征兆。
38:07	K: Do you know what ‘symptom’ is? Symptom is I have eaten something, very heavy food, and I have got tummy ache. The tummy ache is the symptom. But the cause is my eating the wrong food. Got it? S: Yes, sir.	克：你们知道“症状”是什么意思吗？症状就是我吃了一些东西，非常的油腻然后我的肚子疼起来。肚子疼就是症状。但是起因是我吃错了食物。明白吗？学：是的，先生。
38:30	K: So, I want to go into the cause of corruption. We say corruption – I hope you are all listening because you are all going to face the world when you leave Rishi Valley.	克：所以，我想要深入探索腐败的起因。我们说腐败- 我希望你们都在听因为你们都要去面对这个世界在你们离开瑞希山谷之后。
38:45	S: Sir, supposing if you don’t take the money he is giving, sir, he might do something worse. If you take the money...	学：先生，假设如果你不接受他给你的那些钱，先生他可能会做些更糟糕的事情。如果你接受了那些钱
38:57	K: If I give you money under the table, you become corrupt.	克：如果我偷偷地塞钱给你，你就变得堕落了。
39:01	S: Yes, sir.	学：是的，先生。
39:02	K: And then you also become corrupt because you are accepting money. Right? S: Yes, sir. But if I don’t take the money, he might do something.	克：同时你也因为接受了那些钱而变得堕落了。对吗？学：是的，先生。但是如果我不接受那些钱，他可能会做些其他的事情。
39:10	K: I know, I know. If you don’t take it, he will hurt you. Just listen, understand, what is the cause of corruption. You understand? Corruption isn’t merely passing money under the table, bribing, black market, but the cause is something entirely different. Right? I am going to go into that if you are interested. Corruption begins with self-interest. Do you understand this? S: Yes, sir.	克：我知道，我知道。如果你不接受他可能会伤害你。好好听，去了解，腐败的起因是什么？你明白吗？腐败并非仅仅是塞钱偷偷地塞钱，贿赂，黑市而是这些的起因是完全不同的东西。对不对？如果你们感兴趣，我们将深入地探索这点。腐败起源于自私自利。你们明白这一点吗？学：是的，先生。
40:00	K: If I am interested in myself, in what I want, what I must be, if I am greedy, envious, harsh, brutal, cruel, there is corruption. You understand? Corruption begins in your heart, in your mind, not just giving money – that also is corruption – but the real cause of corruption is inside you. Unless you find that out and change that you will be a corrupt human being. Do you understand what I am saying? Corruption is when you are angry, when you are jealous, when you hate people, when you are lazy, when you say, ‘This is right, and I feel this is right’ and stick to it. You understand what I am saying?	克：如果我对自己感兴趣，对我想要什么感兴趣对我一定要变成什么感兴趣，如果我是贪婪的好嫉妒的，苛刻的，残忍的，冷酷的，那么就会有腐败堕落。你们明白吗？腐败从你的内心开始，在你的头脑里出现，不仅仅是塞钱给人而已那当然也是腐败但是真正的起因是你内心的腐败。除非你发现了这一点然后改变它否则你将成为一个堕落的人。你明白我所说的吗？腐败堕落就是，当你愤怒当你嫉妒，你仇恨人们当你懒惰，你说 “那是对的，我觉得那是对的”然后坚持己见。你们明白我所说的吗？
41:17	S: Sir, it looks like everything comes under selfishness.	学：先生，看来所有的事情都可以归咎于自私。
41:20	K: Everything comes under selfishness. You are quite right. Corruption begins there. You understand, old boy?	克：所有的都归咎于自私。你说得很对。腐败堕落就起于那里。你明白了，大男孩？学：是的，先生。
41:33	S: Yes, sir.	克：所以不要变得腐败堕落。
41:35	K: So don’t be corrupt. It doesn’t matter if you die for it.	即使为此而献身也不要紧。
41:42	S: Sir... K: Wait, listen to me. You understand? We are all so frightened. You say, ‘How will I live? What will I do if I am not corrupt when all the people around me are corrupt?’ You understand what I mean by corruption, not just the outward sign but the deep inward sense of corruption that human beings live with – selfish, thinking about themselves, wanting their success, envious – you understand? So, corruption is inside, in your heart, in your brain. So if you understand that very carefully and you are really serious, not cynical; most of those grown-up boys who are going to leave have become cynical, they see what the world is, they say, ‘Well, I have got to accept it’. That is a form of cynicism. But if you understand very carefully from now that corruption is not merely passing money under the table, bribing, bribing whether it is two rupees or ten million dollars, it is still bribing. And being violent is part of what is called corruption, terror, all that. That is what is happening in the world. You are a human being growing up, don’t be like them. Don’t become angry, don’t be envious, don’t always seek success.	学：先生克：等一下，听我说。你明白吗？我们都是如此的恐惧。你说，“我如何生存？如果我不腐败我要怎么办当我身边的所有人都是腐败堕落的？” 你明白我说的腐败是什么意思吗不仅仅是外在的表征，也包括内在深层的腐败感我们人类与之共存的腐败- 自私，想着自己想要成功，嫉妒他人- 你们明白吗？所以，腐败是内在的，在你的心里，你的头脑里。所以如果你非常用心地理解了这一点而且你确实是认真的，而非愤世嫉俗的大部分长大成人即将离开这里的男孩们都已经变得愤世嫉俗，他们看到世界是什么样子的，于是说 “好吧，我不得不接受世界的样子”。那就是愤世嫉俗的一种形式。但是如果你从现在起非常用心地去理解，腐败堕落并不仅仅是偷偷地塞钱，贿赂无论是贿赂两个卢比还是一千万美金，那都是贿赂。而且暴力也是腐败的一部分，恐怖活动，所有的那些。那就是这个世界上正在发生着的事情。你们是正在成长的人类，不要变得像他们一样。不要变得愤怒，不要变得善妒，不要总是追逐成功。
44:08	S: Sir, how can we stop all that? How can we stop being envious?	学：先生，我们怎样才能停止那一切呢？我们怎么才能不再嫉妒？
44:13	K: If you want to be envious, be envious and see what happens. You understand? But if you don’t want to be envious, don’t be envious. Don’t say, how do I stop it? If you see something dangerous, like a cobra, nobody tells you – you run. Right? So, corruption inside is most dangerous. Right? So don’t be corrupt. Begin there first, not out there. You understand? S: Yes, sir.	克：如果你想嫉妒，那么就嫉妒，看看会发生什么事情。你明白吗？但是如果你不想嫉妒，就不要去嫉妒。不要说，我要怎么停止嫉妒。如果你看到危险的事物，比如一条眼镜蛇，没有人告诉你该怎么办 - 你一定会跑开。对不对？所以，内在的腐败堕落是最危险的。对不对？所以不要变得腐败堕落。首先从这里开始，不是变得腐败堕落然后再改正。你们明白吗？学：是的，先生。
45:01	K: Will you do it? Don’t promise. Don’t ever promise unless you are absolutely going to carry it out. Right? But if you see how important it is in life because you are all growing up, growing into this terrible world. It’s insane world. You understand? There is no sanity in the political world, in the religious world. Right? In the economic world there is no sanity. So, please, I am just pointing out to you, whether you are grown up or leaving this marvellous valley, or staying here for another two, four years, don’t be corrupt, inside, don’t seek vanity, pride, don’t say, ‘I am superior to somebody else’. You know, you learn a great deal when there is humility. You know the word ‘humility’? You learn a great deal if you are really humble. But if you are merely seeking success, money, money, money, power, position, status – you understand? – then you are beginning with corruption. You might be poor, be poor – who cares. That’s why it is important for you, for all of you, to find your own talent and stick to it even though it doesn’t bring you success, fame, and all that which is all nonsense anyhow because we are all going to die. You understand, old boy? While you live, live, not with all the rubbish that is going on.	克：你会那样去做吗？不要承诺。除非是你绝对会那样去做，否则永远不要承诺。好吗？但是如果你看到那在人生当中是多么的重要因为你们都在长大长大并进入到这个可怕的世界当中。这是个疯狂的世界。你们明白吗？在政治世界里，宗教世界里，是没有理性存在的。对吗？在经济世界里，也没有理性。所以，请你们，我只是在告诉你们，无论你是否已经成年或者即将离开这个美丽的山谷或者要在这里再待两年，四年不要腐败堕落，在内心里不要追求虚荣，寻求荣耀不要说，“我比其他的人优越”。你知道，当你谦卑的时候，你会学到很多的东西。你们知道“谦卑”这个词吗？如果你是真正谦卑的，你会学到很多东西。但是如果你只想追求成功金钱，金钱，金钱，权力，地位身份 - 你们明白吗？- 那么你就开始与腐败堕落为伍了。你可能会贫穷，那就做个贫穷的人，谁在乎呢。那就是为什么对你来说，对你们所有人来说重要的事情是，去发现自己的天赋并且持之以恒，即使这个天赋并不能给你带来成功，名誉，以及那一切反正那都是些无稽之谈，因为我们所有的人都将死去。你明白吗，大男孩？当你活着的时候，好好生活，不要与所有那些盛行的垃圾观念为伍。
48:12	S: Sir, why don’t people realise this?	学：先生，为什么人们意识不到这一点？
48:20	K: Because they don’t think, they don’t feel, they are thinking about themselves all the time, their job, their administration, their work. You understand? They are not interested in this. But if you are...	克：因为他们不思考，他们不去感受他们一直都在考虑他们自己，他们的事业考虑他们经营的事情，考虑他们的工作。你明白吗？他们对此不感兴趣。但是如果你感兴趣
48:42	S: How do you stop being selfish?	学：那么你如何才能停止自私？
48:47	K: How do you stop being selfish? Don’t be selfish. Just listen. Don’t ever ask anybody, ‘How?’ You understand? Then they will tell you how, then you are lost. That is the biggest corruption.	克：你如何能停止自私？那就不要自私。听我说。永远不要问任何人，“如何去做？” 你明白吗？接着他们会告诉你如何去做，然后你就迷失了。那是最严重的堕落。
49:14	S: You mean we must find out for ourselves.	学：你是说我们必须自己去发现。
49:17	K: Find out, enquire, use your brain, doubt, question. Don’t merely accept. I am your teacher, suppose I am your teacher. I want to see that you have a very good brain. Right? To have a good brain means not to have conflict in yourself or with somebody else. I know all this is too much.	克：去发现，质询，使用自己的头脑，怀疑，提出问题。不要仅仅去接受别人的说法。我是你们的老师，假设我是你们的老师。我要确保你有个非常好的头脑。对吗？拥有一个好的头脑意味着不会有冲突无论是你的内在还是与其他的人。我知道我所说的这些对你们来说太难理解了。
50:03	S: I wanted to ask you, sir – supposing you are not mistaken and someone does something to you?	学：我刚才想问您，先生- 假如你没错的话而某个人对你做了些不好的事情呢？克：如果有人做了一些伤害你的事情
50:13	K: If someone does something, harm to you, what will you do? Hit him back?	你要怎么做？反戈一击吗？
50:21	S: It depends on the depth of what he has done.	学：那要看他伤害我的程度。
50:23	K: Yes, you have said it. By Jove, you are quite... If he hurts you deeply, what will you do? Have you asked what it means to be hurt? Go on. Think with me. Think with me!	克：是，你已经说出来了。天哪，你是多么如果他伤害你很深你会怎么做？你有没有问过被伤害是什么意思？请继续。和我一起思考。和我一起思考！
50:43	S: Sir, is it corruption again to be hurt?	学：先生，是否被伤害也是一种堕落呢？
50:45	K: Just listen. Suppose I hurt you very deeply; suppose – I don’t want to hurt you, suppose I want to hurt you very deeply. Now, you say, ‘I am hurt’. Now, what do you mean by that? Use your brain. Don’t repeat.	克：请听我说。假设我把你伤得很深；只是假设 - 我并不想伤害你假设我想要深深地伤害你。那么，你说，“我受到了伤害”。那么，你这么说是什么意思呢？动动脑子。不要重复别人的话。
51:05	S: Physically? K: Yes, not only physically but inside, he hurts you. He calls you a fool. S: Sir, I think...	学：伤害我的身体吗？克：是的，不仅仅是身体上而且也是内心，他伤害了你。他叫你傻瓜。学：先生，我认为
51:15	K: Just listen carefully. All of you listen carefully. He calls you a fool, and you get hurt. Right? Have you found out what gets hurt? Careful, careful!	克：请用心地听我说。你们所有的人都用心地听。他叫你傻瓜，然后你受伤了。对吗？你发现是什么受伤了吗？用心，用心！
51:35	S: If you think you aren’t a fool and then someone comes along...	学：如果你认为你不是傻瓜，接着某个人过来
51:42	K: Look, somebody calls you a fool and somebody calls you a great man, they are both the same, aren’t they? Do you understand what I am saying? Somebody calls me a fool, an idiot, and I get hurt – suppose. What gets hurt? Careful, think it out, don’t reply quickly, think it out.	克：你看，某人叫你傻瓜，而另一个人则说你是伟大的人他们都是一样的，难道不是吗？你们明白我所说的吗？有个人叫我傻瓜，白痴，我就受伤了 - 假设。是什么被伤害了？用心点，想想清楚，不要很快地回答，想想清楚。
52:19	K: Think it out. No, I won’t listen. I said think it out, carefully think it out. I am asking you, I call you an idiot – I am not saying that – and you get hurt. What do you mean, you getting hurt? What is you? S: Your ego.	克：想想清楚。不，我不听。我说了想明白这点，用心地想想清楚。我在问你，我叫你白痴- 我不是真的说你是白痴然后你受到了伤害。你究竟是什么意思，你受到了伤害？你是什么？学：你的自我。
52:47	K: Think it out, old girl, think it out.	克：想想清楚，大女孩，想想清楚。
52:53	S: It is me, my ego. K: What are you?	学：是我，我的自我受伤了。克：你是什么？
52:58	S: I am one...	学：我是一个
53:01	K: Come over here, old boy. Sit in here. Come on, don’t waste time. I know you, so go on.	克：到这里来，大男孩。坐在这里。来吧，不要浪费时间。我认识你，所以请继续说。
53:16	S: Sir, what is hurt is me, what I have build of myself.	学：先生，受伤的是我，我为自己建立起来的那些东西。
53:19	K: That’s it. What you have built of yourself, which means what?	克：正是这样。你为自己建立起来的东西，那又意味着什么？
53:26	S: Sir, what has been achieved, what I have achieved, what I have done.	学：先生，那些已经实现的东西，我已经取得的东西，我所做过的一切。
53:30	K: What you have done, what you have achieved. Why are you all so accustomed to achievement? You all talk about achievement. Like your father, your mother, your grandmothers, they have achieved. Right? They have become successful, you mean.	克：你所做过的事情，你所成就的东西。为什么你们所有的人都对成就如此的习以为常？你们都谈论成就。就像你的父亲、母亲、祖母们，他们有所成就。对吗？你是说，他们都是成功的人。
53:52	S: No, sir, what they have done to themselves.	学：不，先生，他们对自己所做的事情。
53:54	K: Yes. Say, for instance, I have been all over some of the world. Right? I have talked to various thousands of people, I have been to the United Nations, all kinds of things I have done. Right? Which means I have built an image, a picture about myself. Right? Picture about myself. You come along and say, ‘You are an idiot’, and I get hurt – suppose. What gets hurt?	克：是的。比如说，我去过世界上的一些地方。对吗？我对数以千计的各式各样的人们讲演过我去过联合国，我做过各种各样的事情。对吗？那意味着我建立了一个意象，关于我自己的一个形象。对吗？关于我自己的一个形象。你过来对我说，“你是个白痴”- 然后我觉得受伤了 - 假设是这样。是什么受伤了？
54:30	S: My feelings. K: My feelings, my image.	学：我的感觉。克：我的感觉，我的形象。
54:35	S: The image of yourself. K: Yes, that’s right. The image of myself because I have travelled, I am a great man, I have written books, I have seen Mrs Gandhi. You follow? I have built an image about myself; that image gets hurt. Now, the next step, listen carefully. Can I live without image, any image?	学：你自己的形象。克：是的，正是那样。由于我周游世界，我是个了不起的人我著书立说，我见过甘地夫人而建立起来的这个形象。你们明白吗？我建立了一个我自己的形象；那个形象受到了伤害。那么，下一步，请用心地听。我可以不带有形象地生活吗，什么形象都没有？
55:05	S: Can you, sir? K: Can I? Yes. I wouldn’t otherwise talk about it. That is dishonesty to talk about something that you yourself are not living.	学：你可以吗，先生？克：我可以做到吗？可以。如果我没有做到，我就不会谈论这些。如果我自己没有那样去生活，却谈论这样的事情那就是不诚实。学：先生，但是你想要去
55:20	S: Sir, but you want to go...	克：等一下，等一下，听我说，大男孩。
55:22	K: Wait, wait, listen to what I am saying, old boy. So, have you an image at this age? Of course, all of you have images. And those images get hurt. And all through life you will get hurt as long as you have those images.	所以，你们这个年龄已经有一个形象了吗？当然，你们所有的人都有形象。并且那些形象会受伤。而且你整个人生当中都会受伤只要你保有那些形象。
55:45	S: Should you forget them, sir?	学：你应该把它们忘掉吗，先生？克：丢掉那些形象，不要它们。
55:48	K: Leave them, don’t have them. Somebody – many people have flattered me and many people have insulted me. I have no image, I can’t get hurt, it doesn’t matter. You understand? S: Yes, sir.	有人 - 很多人曾经恭维我还有很多人侮辱过我。我没有自我形象，所以我不会受伤，没关系。你们明白吗？学：是的，先生。
56:07	K: Be like that. That is where corruption begins.	克：像那样做。腐败堕落就是从这里开始的。
56:14	S: Sir, but how do you get rid of your images?	学：先生，但是你要如何去除那些形象呢？
56:19	K: How do you get rid of images? If you see they are dangerous, you will get rid of them immediately.	克：你如何去除那些形象？如果你认识到它们是危险的，你就立即除掉了它们。
56:29	S: Sir, if you get rid of images, what is left of you?	学：先生，如果你除掉了那些形象，那你还有什么留下来呢？
56:32	K: Nothing!	克：什么都不剩！学：那么你是什么呢？
56:34	S: Then what are you?	克：等一下！请听我所说的话。
56:36	K: Wait! Listen to what I said. Be nothing and then you live. You will understand later.	当你什么也不是你就真正开始生活了。你以后会明白的。
56:51	S: Sir, those might have images of you but we shouldn’t have images.	学：先生，别人可能存有对你的印象，但是我们不应该有各种形象。
56:55	K: Yes. Let the others have images, don’t you have them.	克：是的。让他们去拥有形象，但你不要有形象。
57:00	S: Sir, sometimes we don’t have images.	学：先生，有时候我们没有形象
57:08	K: Not ‘sometimes’. Are you talking seriously, or theoretically?	克：不是“有时候”。你是在认真地讨论还是从理论上讨论？
57:18	S: No, suppose a person can...	学：不，假设一个人能够克：你为什么要假设？
57:21	K: Why do you suppose?	学：如果一个人没有任何形象，难道他不会觉得不安全吗？
57:24	S: If a person doesn’t have an image, isn’t he likely to feel insecure?	克：那就不安全吧！
57:30	K: Be insecure! Know you are insecure. Then find out what is security. But if you are always seeking security, you don’t know whether you are insecure. But first find out for yourself if you are insecure, what it means, physically, inwardly, and so on.	明白你就是不安全的。然后去发现什么才是安全。但是如果你总是在追求安全你就不知道你是不是不安全的了。但是首先自己去发现你是不是不安全的，安全在身体上在你的内在意味着什么，如此等等。
58:05	S: Whether you have an image or not, you are insecure.	学：无论你有一个形象或没有你都是不安全的。
58:14	K: Whether you have an image or not, you are insecure. I am asking you, have you found out if you are insecure or are you just talking?	克：无论你有一个形象或者没有，你都是不安全的。我在问你，你已经弄明白自己是否不安全了吗或者你只是说说而已？
58:25	S: Sir, I feel insecure about some things.	学：先生，对一些事情，我觉得不安全。
58:27	K: Wait. Find out what it means, what it means to be insecure. Either you are insecure physically – right? – or economically, or insecure in public opinion – right? – or insecure in money matters, or insecure in your relationships. Find out.	克：等一下。弄明白那是什么意思，不安全是什么意思。或者你身体上不安全 - 对吗？- 或者经济上不安全或者对公众的意见没有安全感- 对吗？或者对有关金钱的事情觉得不安全或者在你的各种关系里没有安全。弄明白。
59:02	S: And then what, sir?	学：那接下来怎么样呢，先生？
59:05	K: When you learn where there is insecurity then you are secure. Get that, old boy.	克：当你了解根本没有安全可言的时候，你就安全了。明白这一点，大男孩。
59:14	S: Sir, do you have an image? K: Listen to what I said. You get it? When you find out for yourself what is insecure, where you are insecure, with your family, with your father, with your mother, with your wife or husband, with god... You understand? Find out, learn about it. The moment you know and have learnt a great deal about insecurity then you are out of it, then you are secure.	学：先生，你有某个形象吗？克：听我所说的话。你明白了吗？当你自己明白了什么是不安全，在哪里你是不安全的在你家里，和你的父亲，你的母亲在一起时和你的妻子或者丈夫，还有上帝在一起时，都是没有安全可言的你明白吗？去弄明白，从中学习。在你了解了不安全，从中学到很多的那一刻你就脱离它了，那时你就安全了。
59:57	S: Sir, if you learn a great deal about insecurity, you don’t know the full insecurity.	学：先生，如果关于不安全你学到了很多你就了解不到不安全感的全部了。
1:00:03	K: Oh, yes, you will. Sir, if you begin rightly – do you understand? – then what is right is at the beginning. This is too difficult.	克：哦，不是，你会了解的。先生，如果你以恰当的方式开始- 你明白吗？那么在最初就是正确的。这太难了。
1:00:21	S: Sir, are you saying, live with insecurity to find out what it is?	先生，您是说，要与不安全共处，以便弄明白它是什么吗？
1:00:25	K: You are insecure, not live with insecurity. You just now said, ‘I am insecure’. Live with it, find out. Use your brain to find out. Don’t become mechanical.	克：你是不安全的，而不是与不安全共处。你刚才说，“我是不安全的”。与那个共处，弄明白。用你的头脑去弄明白。不要变得机械。
1:00:43	S: Sir, to get rid of insecurity we have to get rid of fear first, no?	学：先生，想要去除不安全，我们首先要去除恐惧，不是吗？
1:00:46	K: Fear. Right? Now, I am going to show you, you have to learn, not from me, learn. What is fear?	克：恐惧。是吗？那么，我来指给你看，你必须要学习，不是从我这里学，而是学习。什么是恐惧？
1:01:04	S: Fear is the thing which we think about.	学：恐惧是我们想到的那件事。
1:01:10	S: Something you don’t know about.	学：是我们所不了解的事物。
1:01:11	K: Wait, sir. You don’t listen to somebody else first, you are always ready with your own questions. He said – do you know what he said? You don’t because you didn’t listen, because your own question was more important; that is selfishness. Right? He said, ‘Fear, how is one to be free of fear?’ Right? You meant that, didn’t you? Right? So, first listen to that question. He said, ‘What is fear, how is one to be free of it?’ Now, do you know you are afraid?	克：等一下，先生。你没有先倾听其他人你总是准备好要问自己的问题。他说 - 你知道他说了什么吗？你不知道因为你没有听因为你自己的问题更重要；那就是自私。对吗？他说，“恐惧，人如何能摆脱恐惧？”对吗？你就是那个意思，不是吗？对吗？所以，首先来听听那个问题。他说，“什么是恐惧，如何能摆脱恐惧？” 那么，你知道自己害怕吗？
1:02:11	S: Yes, sir. K: Yes, sir! Why?	学：是的，先生。克：是的，先生！为什么？
1:02:18	S: I think it is because I think of something which makes me feel afraid.	学：我想那是因为我想到了一些让我感到害怕的事情。
1:02:23	K: Now, just a minute you have said something tremendous. I don’t know if you are aware of it. You have said something very true.	克：现在，等一下，你说出了某件非同寻常的事情。我不知道你是否意识到了这一点。你说出了某种非常真实的东西。
1:02:35	S: Then if we don’t think of something...	学：那么如果我们什么也不想
1:02:38	K: That’s it. You have learnt the first thing, that thinking brings fear. Right? Right? S: Yes, sir.	克：正是这样。你已经学到了第一件事，那就是思想会带来恐惧。对吗？是吗？学：是的，先生。
1:02:53	K: So, you have to find out what is thinking, not how to stop fear. You understand? You just now said very carefully that thinking brings fear, which is true. I might die tomorrow and I am frightened. I might lose my job, I am frightened. Right? So thinking brings fear. Then what is thinking? Now go step by step to find out. What is thinking?	克：所以，你必须要弄明白什么是思想，而不是如何停止恐惧。你明白吗？你刚才非常认真地说道是思想带来恐惧，确实如此。我明天可能会死去，我非常害怕。我可能会失去我的工作，我很害怕。对吗？所以是思想带来了恐惧。那么什么是思想呢？现在一步一步地来弄明白。什么是思想？
1:03:37	S: Sir, is it that to get rid of fear we have to get rid of thinking?	学：先生，是不是说为了去除恐惧我们必须去除思想？
1:03:40	K: No. I said never get rid of anything because it will come back.	克：不。我说过永远不要去除任何东西，因为他们会卷土重来。
1:03:45	S: So you see that fear is dangerous.	学：所以你明白恐惧是危险的
1:03:48	K: Yes. No, first listen carefully. I said to you, fear, he said, fear exists, comes when you think about something. Right? Fear – I might die, fear – I might lose my job, fear of my father, fear of my teachers. Right? So as long as you are thinking about the future – right? – there is fear. Right? Now you have to find out what is thinking.	克：是的。不，首先用心听我说。我对你说，恐惧，他说了，恐惧存在，出现在当你在思考某件事的时候。对吗？恐惧 - 我可能会死去，恐惧- 我可能会失去工作，我害怕我的父亲害怕我的老师们。对不对？所以，只要你去思考未来 - 对吗？- 就会有恐惧。对不对？现在你必须来弄明白什么是思想。
1:04:30	S: It might be selfishness. K: Yes, wait, wait. I am asking you something, first listen, old boy. I am not trying to stop you. What is thinking? Carefully. Use your brain.	学：那可能是自私。克：是的，等一下，等一下。我在问你问题，首先听我说，大男孩。我不是要打断你。什么是思想？用心地想一下。好好动动脑子。
1:04:47	S: What the brain does?	学：是头脑做的事情吗？
1:04:50	K: No, use your brain to find out what is thinking.	克：不，用你的头脑去弄清楚什么是思想。
1:04:56	S: Imagination, sir. K: Imagination, go on.	学：想象力，先生。克：想象力，继续。
1:05:04	S: Sir, what you have seen you record and you think about it.	学：先生，你看到一些事物然后记录它们，然后又思考它们。
1:05:09	K: That is good, you are beginning. You are recording, aren’t you? That is – Oh, lord! I’ll show you. Our brain, what is inside the skull, is recording. You are recording mathematics. You are recording geography, history, you are recording. A tape is recording. This is recording, down there. You understand? I am talking, electrically it is connected to that machine and that is recording on the tape. Our brain acts exactly like that. It is recording. Right? Mathematics, history, geography, your father, it has recorded your father. Right? Now, wait a minute. What do you mean by recording? Think it out, use your brain.	克：非常好，你已经开始了。你在记录，不是吗？那是 - 哦，天哪！我来告诉你。我们的头脑，脑壳里面的头脑，在记录。你们在记录数学。你们在记录地理、历史，你们在记录。有个磁带在记录。这是记录，就发生在那里。你明白吗？我在说话，通过电力接到了那个机器上于是讲话就被记录在了磁带上。我们的头脑以完全相同的方式运作。它在记录着。对不对？数学，历史，地理，你的父亲它也记录了你的父亲。对吗？现在，等一下。你说的记录是什么意思？弄明白，动动脑筋。
1:06:21	S: It recalls something back again.	学：它从那些记录中回忆事情。
1:06:24	K: What do you mean recording? S: Absorbs.	克：你说记录是什么意思？学：吸收。
1:06:27	K: Isn’t it necessary to record? S: Yes.	克：难道记录不是必须的吗？学：是的。
1:06:32	K: Why?	克：为什么？
1:06:35	S: Sir, to link the past with the future.	学：先生，把过去和未来连接起来。
1:06:38	K: No, isn’t it necessary to record? I hope the older boys are paying attention to all this because it is their life. So, recording is necessary when you write a letter, when you drive a car. Right? When you have to pass an exam – unfortunately – when you record that you have a father in some place, and a mother. All that is recording, that is necessary. Now, there is also another recording. I get hurt – you get it? S: Yes, sir.	克：不，记录是必须的吗？我希望年龄大一些的男孩子们也在注意听我说的所有这些因为这就是他们的生活。所以，当你写信，当你驾驶车辆的时候，记录是必须的。对不对？当你不得不通过考试的时候 - 很不幸当你记录你在某处有个父亲，和一个母亲时。那些都是记录，那是必须的。那么，还有另外一种记录。我受伤了 - 你们明白吗？学：是的，先生。
1:07:36	K: There are two kinds of recording – the recording of driving a car, writing a letter, becoming IAS, becoming an engineer. Listen carefully, old boy, you are following? And there is also another recording – me first, I am selfish, I want this, I want success. Right? So, these two are recording all the time. Which is recording is memory, isn’t it? Memory of your father, memory of your mathematics. Right? So recording means memory, which is repeating. Do you see this? When you learn mathematics you are recording, you are repeating, memorising like that tape. Right? So, you become mechanical. Like that tape is mechanical, it repeats, repeats, repeats. I am a Brahmin, I am a Brahmin, I am a Hindu, I am a Hindu, I am against Communist, Communist. Right? And so on. Our brains then become conditioned, limited, small. Right? So thinking is part of memory. You can’t have memory if you haven’t met your father, if you haven’t seen your father, your mother. So, you have seen the father and your mother and that is stored in the brain as memory, and also that is knowledge, and knowledge is based on experience – of course.	克：有两种记录- 记录如何开车如何写信，如何成为航空学院的工作人员，如何成为一个工程师。请用心地听，大男孩，你们跟上了吗？还有另外一种记录- 我是第一位的，我自私我想要这个，我想成功。对不对？所以，这两种都在不停地记录。那些记录就是记忆，不是吗？对你父亲的记忆，对你的数学知识的记忆。对吗？所以记录意味着记忆，也就是重复。你们明白这一点吗？当你学数学的时候你是在记录，重复就像磁带一样地记忆。对不对？于是，你变得机械。就像那个机械化的磁带一样，它重复，重复，再重复我是个婆罗门，我是个婆罗门我是个印度教徒，我是个印度教徒我反对共产主义者，共产主义者。对吗？如此等等。于是我们的头脑变得局限，狭隘，琐细。对不对？所以思想是记忆的一部分。你如果没有遇见你的父亲，就不可能有关于他的记忆如果你从来没有见过你的父亲，你的母亲。所以，你见过你的父亲，你的母亲那些都作为记忆存储在了头脑里，同时也是知识知识是基于经验的 - 当然如此。
1:09:59	S: I am memorising. K: You are memory. You understand? You are memory, the whole of your being is memory. Memory that you are atman, memory you have got a soul, memory there is light inside you, memory that there is god. It is all still memory. You listen carefully, find out if it is true what the speaker is saying or it is a lie. You understand? Find out. You are memory, without memory you are nothing. Memory of your name, memory of your family, memory of mathematics, memory of going up that hill, memory of your friend. Right? So you are memory. Memory is something dead, gone.	学：我在记忆。克：你就是记忆。你明白吗？你就是记忆，你的整个存在就是记忆。记忆里你是一个本我(atman) 记忆里你有个灵魂，记忆里你内在有光记忆里有上帝存在。那些仍然是一堆记忆。你们用心地听我说，弄明白讲话者正在说的是否真实还是一个谎言。你们明白吗？搞清楚。你就是记忆，没有记忆你就什么也不是。关于你名字的记忆，你家庭的记忆关于数学的记忆，爬上那座小山的记忆对你朋友的记忆。对不对？所以你就是记忆。记忆是死的，已经逝去的东西。
1:11:10	S: Then how are we alive?	学：那我们怎么还活着？
1:11:13	K: Because the organ, you have food, you have air, water.	克：因为身体器官在运作，你摄入食物，你呼吸空气，喝水。
1:11:19	S: Then how can we...	学：那么我们怎么能够
1:11:22	K: Find out, sir, that is the great point. You understand? Find out what is truth. Memory is not truth.	克：弄清楚，先生，那就是最重要的一点。你明白吗？去发现什么是真理。记忆并非真理。
1:11:37	S: Sir, what do you mean by truth?	学：先生，你所说的真理是指什么？
1:11:41	K: You can’t describe it. What is the flower? What is that flower? Look at it. You never ask when you are looking at that flower, what is it, how did it come, the beauty of it. Please learn something. Beauty is truth. You understand? Beauty is truth. The beauty of a good life – good life, not successful life. Now, sirs, it is ten to eleven, will you sit quietly for a minute? Sit quietly. All right, sirs, thank you.	克：你无法描述它。花是什么？那朵花是什么？看着它。当你看着那朵花的时候你从不会问，那朵花是什么它是哪里来的，它的美是哪里来的。请学到点什么吧。美就是真理。你明白吗？美就是真理。美好的生命之美 - 好的人生，不是成功的人生好了，先生们，现在差十分十一点了，你们能够静静地坐上一分钟吗？静静地坐着。好的，先生们，谢谢你们。