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RV85DS1 - 恐惧的滋味如何?
与学生们的第一次讨论
瑞希山谷学校
1985年



1:04 Krishnamurti: What would you like me to talk about? You don’t have to raise your arm – just tell me. 克:你们想让我来谈些什么? 你不需要举手- 告诉我就可以了。
1:22 Student: Why are you superior and we are inferior to you? Why do we feel that way – many of us? 学生:为什么您是出众优越的,而我们却不如您? 学:我们为什么会有那样的感受- 为什么我们很多人都有?
1:33 K: Feel superior, inferior?

S: Yes, sir.
克:感觉比他人优越,感觉不如他人?学:是的,先生。
1:37 K: My god, I never thought about it! Why do we, sitting here – there’s an echo there. Why do we – that’s stopped that – why do we, why do you feel that you are superior to the rest of us? Is that it? 克:天哪,我从来没有想过这个问题! 我们为什么,坐在这里- 这里有回音(笑声)。 我们为什么 - 回音停下来了- 我们为什么 为什么你会感觉比我们其余的人都优越? 问题是这样的吗?
2:12 S: Many of us feel that.

K: Many of us feel that way. Why? Why do you think?
学:我们很多人都有那种感觉。

克:我们很多人都有那种感觉。 为什么? 你们为什么会那样想?
2:24 S: Maybe because everybody is talking about you. 学:可能因为每个人都在谈论您。
2:28 K: Oh, everybody’s talking about me. Too bad! Then apart from that, why do you think that way at all? 克:哦,每个人都在谈论我。太糟糕了! 那么除此以外,究竟你们为什么会那样想?
2:40 S: I don’t know.

K: You don’t know.
学:我不知道。

克:你不知道。
2:42 S: It just comes into our minds.

S: It just comes into our mind.
学:我们自然就这样想了。学:我们自然就这样想了。
2:46 K: Not two at once. What did you say? Please, don’t be afraid. 克:请不要两个人一起讲。 你们刚才说什么? 请告诉我,不要害怕。
2:59 S: It just comes into our minds. 学:我们自然就这样想了。
3:03 K: Just comes into our brain. Why? I’ve been all over the world, which you haven’t been. I have been before the war, the second world war, all over Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, South America – right? – all over America, Europe and so on. Does that make any difference? 克:我们自然就那么想了。 为什么? 我去过世界各地,而你们没有去过那些地方。 在战前,第二次世界大战前 我去过整个欧洲 我去过澳大利亚,新西兰,斐济,南美洲 - 对不对? 还有整个美洲,欧洲,等等。 那是什么重要的事情吗?
3:36 S: No.

K: No. Then what makes you different from somebody else?
学:不是。

克:不是。 那么是什么让你和其他人不同?
3:44 S: Sir, maybe we form opinions about the other person. We build up some kind of opinion. 学:先生,可能是我们对别人形成了某些看法。 我们形成了某种看法。
3:53 K: Why do you have opinions about other people? You tell me why you have different opinions from others. What is an opinion? You are clever boys, come on! Those too sitting up among the mighty! What is an opinion? Why do we have opinions about me, about each other, about the elder people? Why do you have opinions, what do you mean by opinions? 克:你为什么会对别人有各种看法? 你来告诉我,你为什么存有和其他人不同的看法。 什么是看法? 你们都是聪明的孩子,来告诉我! 那些高高在上坐在权威当中的人也请告诉我! 什么是看法? 我们为什么有各种看法 对于我的,对于彼此的看法,对于年长的人们的看法? 你们为什么会有这些看法,你们说的这些看法是什么意思?
4:41 S: An image, an idea. 学:一个意象,一个想法。
4:45 K: An image, or an idea about other people. Why do you have them? You don’t know me. Right? Right? No, no, darling, just a minute. You don’t know me, do you? No. I come here once in a while and there is a lot of fuss about it. Right? But you don’t really know me. Why do you have an opinion of me? I may be an awful crook. Right? I may be a charlatan – you know – humbug, anything you like, but you don’t know me. Right? Right? So why do you have an opinion about me? Opinion means a suggestion, first. Also it means that you have a preconceived idea about him. Right? Also you have an image about him. Right? According to that image you translate what he says, what he looks like, and all the rest of it. Right? So, why do you have all this? I’m asking all of you, why do you have opinions? 克:关于其他人的一个意象,或者一个想法。 你们为什么存有这些想法和意象?你们并不了解我。 对吗? 对吗? 学:(无法听清的)

克:不,不,亲爱的孩子,等一下。 你们并不了解我,对吗?不了解。 我隔一段时间会来这里一趟 而人们会对我的到来大惊小怪。 对吗?但是你们并不真正地了解我。 为什么你们会对我存有某种看法呢? 我可能只是个可怕的骗子。 对吗?我可能是个吹牛的人- 你们知道 欺骗者,你们想怎么称呼都可以,但是你们并不了解我。 对吗?对吗? 所以你为什么会对我存有某种看法呢? 首先,看法意味着一个暗示。 那也意味着你对他有了一个预设的想法。对吗? 并且你对他心存一个意象。对吗? 根据那个意象,你来诠释他说的话 他长的样子,以及其余的一切。对吗? 那么,为什么你心存所有这些东西? 我在问你们所有的人,你们为什么心存这些看法?
6:21 S: Curiosity. It’s curiosity. 学:因为好奇心。那是因为好奇心。
6:25 K: Curiosity. Why do you have curiosity about me? I’ll tell you all you want to know about me, everything you want to know about me. Right? So, why are you curious about me? How I comb my hair? How I brush my teeth, how long I sleep? Right? Do you want to know all that? No, you don’t. Be honest, you don’t. Right? So, what do you want to know about me? You don’t know. So, why do you have an opinion about me? Why do you have an opinion about each other? That means, I have an opinion about you and that opinion prevents me from looking at you. Opinion interferes between me and you. Right? So why do you have that? 克:好奇心。你们为什么对我有好奇心? 我会告诉你们,你们想了解的关于我的所有事情 你们想要了解的关于我的每一件事。 好吗? 那么,你们为什么对我好奇? 你们好奇我怎么梳我的头发吗? 我怎么刷牙,我睡觉睡多久? 是吗?你们想要知道所有那些事情吗? 不,你们并不想知道。 诚实一点,你们并不想知道。对吗? 那么,关于我,你们想知道什么呢? 你们不知道。 那么,你们为什么对我心存某种看法? 你们为什么对彼此心存某种看法? 那意味着,当我对你心存某种看法 那么这个看法会让我无法如实观察你。 那个看法在你我之间是一个障碍。 对吗?那么你为什么还要存有那个看法呢?
7:45 S: Then how do you look at another person? 学:那么您是如何看其他人的?
7:47 K: How do you look at another person? Look at me. I look at you. Why do you need an opinion? I look at you. You have cut your hair up to here. I have combed my hair. You have seen my photo probably. But what? Why do you have an opinion? Go on, think it out. Are you really thinking or are you just being silent? Can you look at somebody, listen to somebody without a single opinion so that you hear what he says? Right? You understand what he says, you begin to grasp the significance, the meaning of what another is saying. Right? But if you have an opinion, you can’t hear. Right? So will you listen to me when I talk? Actually listen, with your ear and listen to what he has to say without translating what he is going to say to you. That means actually listen to somebody. Right? Actually listen. Will you listen to your teacher? 克:你是如何看待别人的。看着我。 我看着你,为什么你会需要一种看法呢? 我看着你。你把你的头发剪到了这个长度。 我梳过了我的头发。(笑声) 你们可能看到过我的照片。但是那又怎样呢? 你为什么会心存某种看法? 接着想,搞清楚为什么。 你们是真的在想吗,还是只是保持沉默而已? 你能看着某个人,倾听某个人 而不带有任何一种看法吗 那样你就能够听进去他所说的话。对吗? 你会理解他所说的话 你开始明了那个人正在说的话 其中的意思,话中的含义。对吗? 但是如果你已经心存某种看法,你就无法真正听到。 对吗?那么当我讲话的时候,你们能倾听吗? 真正地倾听,用你的耳朵 倾听他说了些什么 而不去诠释他要对你说的话。 那意味着真正地倾听一个人。 对吗? 真正地倾听。 你会倾听你的老师吗?
9:40 S: Yes, sir.

K: Don’t lie. Don’t pretend. Do you listen to your teacher?

S: Not all the time.
学:是的,先生。

克:不要说谎。 不要假装。 你们倾听你们的老师吗?学:并非一直如此。
9:52 K: Not all the time. Good! When do you listen to them? Don’t look at them. When do you listen to them? You four are talking, let the others talk too. When do you listen to your teacher or to your educator? 克:并非一直如此。很好! 你们什么时候会倾听老师说的话? 不要去看他们。 你们什么时候会倾听老师说的话? 学:(无法听清的)

克:你们四个人在发言,让其他的人也来发言。 你们什么时候会倾听你们的老师或者教你们的人所说的话?
10:19 S: When it suits you. 学:当内容适合你的时候。
10:21 K: When it suits you. Perfectly right! When it is comfortable to you, when it is nice to you, when it suits you, you listen to him. Right? That’s not listening, is it? You know what to listen means, don’t you? That is, you hear a sound – right? and that’s conveyed to your brain which then translates into the language you are accustomed to and says, ‘This is what he is saying to me’. Right? Right? So, do you listen to anybody? Carefully, not just casually. You know. But do you actually listen to anybody? To your father, to your uncle, to your aunt, to your mother, your teacher, your friend, do you actually listen to anybody? 克:当内容适合你们的时候。完全正确! 当你感觉内容让你舒服的时候 当内容很美好的时候,当内容适合你的时候 你就会去倾听。对吗? 那并不是倾听,对不对? 你们知道去倾听意味着什么,对吗? 那是指,你听到一个声音- 对吗? 那个声音传到你的大脑 接着大脑会解释它 用你熟悉的话语来解释,然后说 “这就是他正在对我说的话”。 对吗?对吗? 所以,你们倾听过任何一个人吗? 用心地听,而不是随随便便地听。 你们知道的。 但是你们真正地倾听过任何一个人吗? 倾听你的父亲 你的伯父,你的姑姑,你的母亲,你的老师 你的朋友,你真正地倾听过任何一个人吗?
11:31 S: We listen to you. 学:我们倾听您。

克:你们在倾听我 - 为什么这么说?
11:34 K: You are listening to me – why? Are you really listening to me? Or pretending, saying, ‘Yes, let’s get on with it’. Are you actually listening? Do you listen to the birds? 你真的在倾听我吗? 还是在假装倾听,心里却说,“好的,让我们混过去吧”。 你真的在倾听吗? 你们倾听鸟儿吗?
11:59 S: When we have no distractions we do listen. 学:当没有事情分心的时候,我们确实会倾听。
12:04 K: You do it when? As a distraction. 克:你什么时候会那样做? 把倾听当作一种分心的事情。学:不是。
12:07 S: No. If there is no distraction, you do listen to what you like listening to. 如果没有事情分心的话,你确实会去倾听你喜欢听的东西。
12:12 K: So, why do you use the word ‘distraction’? Tell me, you grown up people up there sitting quietly, why do you use the word ‘distraction’? You know what that word means? 克:那么,你为什么用到“分心”那个词? 你们安静地坐在那里的成年人们,请告诉我.. 你们为什么要用到“分心”这个词? 你们知道那个词的含义吗?
12:30 S: Something that comes in the way of something else. 学:某件事阻碍了其他的事情。
12:34 K: Old boy, I am asking you, what do you mean by distraction? To be attracted – right? – and to be distracted. What are you attracted by? Are you listening to me? Is it fun? Are you forced to listen to me? Nobody asked you to come and listen to me, have they? Are you quite sure? Don’t look at them. You see the older ones don’t talk at all because they are higher up. And you too when you grow up to be a little higher you will also stop talking. But you don’t stop talking amongst yourselves but you’ll stop talking to me. Right? Right? Why? Are you curious about what I want to say? Do you want me to tell you where I have been? Do you want me to tell you whom I met? 克:大男孩,我在问你,你所说的分心是什么意思? 被吸引 - 对吗?- 以及被干扰分心。 你被什么所吸引? 你在听我讲吗?这个题目有趣吗? 你们是被迫来这里听我讲的吗? 没有什么人要求你们来听我讲,是不是这样? 你们真的确定这点吗?不要看他们。 你们看,那些年龄大些的孩子根本不说话 因为他们高高在上。 你们长大一些后,也会变得一样 你们也会不再发言。 但是你们彼此之间并没有停止交谈。 但是你们不再和我交谈了。对吗? 对吗?为什么? 你们对我要说的内容好奇吗? 你们想让我告诉你们我去过哪些地方吗? 你们想让我告诉你们我都遇见了什么人吗?
14:11 S: No, sir.

K: No. You are not interested, are you? These three birds are talking all the time. I’m glad you’re talking. But the others keep quiet. Why? I met your Prime Minister, I met the Vice President. They had lunch and dinner and we gabbled – you know what the word ‘gabble’ is? Talk. And we met several other people. What is a politician?
学:不,先生。

克:不。你们对那些并不感兴趣,对吗? 这三个小家伙一直都在发言。 我很高兴你们在和我交谈。 但是其他的人却保持沉默。为什么? 我见过你们的总理,我也见过副总统。 我们一起吃了午餐和晚餐 我们七嘴八舌地讨论着- 你们知道“七嘴八舌”是什么意思吗? 讨论。 然后我们又见了其他的几个人。 政客是什么人?
15:00 S: Somebody who campaigns to win elections and to look after the state or country in some high post. 学:那个竞选然后赢得选举的人 而且他身居要职,照顾所有国民或者照顾国家。
15:19 S: Who leads the country, sir. 学:那个领导国家的人,先生。
15:22 K: Leads the country. Are they leading the country? 克:领导国家。 他们在领导国家吗?
15:33 S: No, sir. 学:并没有,先生。
15:35 K: Then why do you use that word ‘lead the country’? 克:那么你为什么要用到“领导国家”这样的词语?
15:41 S: Who helps the country. 学:那些帮助国家的人。
15:45 K: What do you mean ‘the country’? 克:你说的“国家”是什么意思?学:我们生活的地方。
15:48 S: The place we live in. 克:你说的“国家”是什么意思?哪一个国家?
15:51 K: What do you mean ‘the country’? Which country? 学:任何国家。

克:任何国家。
15:57 S: Any country.

K: Any country. So, are the politicians leading the country?
那么,那些政客们在领导国家吗?
16:05 S: They are trying to help.

K: Trying to help what? Poverty?
学:他们想要帮忙。

克:想要帮助什么?贫穷吗?
16:11 S: Trying to help to solve the problems. 学:努力帮助解决各种问题。
16:14 K: What problems? 克:什么问题?学:各种的问题。
16:17 S: Various problems.

K: Tell me what problems are.
克:告诉我那都是些什么问题?
16:20 S: Sir, to solve the grievances of the people. 学:先生,解决人民的不满。
16:26 K: Grievance of other people. Right? Have you got grievances? Against whom? I wish some of them would talk. What are you interested in? Do you want to talk to me or shall I go on talking to myself? 克:其他人的不满。对吗? 你有什么不满吗? 对谁不满? 我希望他们当中有人能发言。 你们对什么感兴趣? 你们想和我交谈吗,还是我应该继续自言自语?
17:07 S: Excuse me, I would like to ask you about fear. 学:打扰一下,我想请您谈一谈恐惧。
17:13 K: Fear. That is a tremendous subject, isn’t it? Are you afraid of something? Be honest.

S: Sometimes I am.
克:恐惧。 那是极大的一个话题,不是吗? 有什么令你恐惧吗? 请诚实。学:有时候我会恐惧。
17:31 K: Sometimes you are. What do you mean by fear? Carefully think it out, carefully listen to the meaning of that word ‘fear’. Are you afraid of your mother and father? Sometimes. 克:有时候你恐惧。你的恐惧是什么意思? 用心地想清楚这点 用心地倾听“恐惧”这个词的含义是什么。 你害怕你的父亲和母亲吗? 有时候。
17:54 S: Sometimes when they get angry.

K: Yes, sometimes. Now, what is the feeling that you have when you are frightened, when you have fear? What is the feeling? Go on, sir. Carefully think it out, don’t just say anything. When you have fear what is the feeling of it? What is the taste of it? You have tasted bananas, you have tasted various types of food – what is the taste of fear? Especially for the older people, the older students. They are very frightened because they have got to pass exams and their fathers will tell them what to do. Right? Right? You’re also going to be told what to do, pass exams, get a job – you know all that. So what is the feeling of fear?
学:有时候当他们发怒的时候。

克:是的,有时候。 那么,当你感到害怕,当你感到恐惧 你内心的感觉是怎样的? 那感觉是怎样的? 继续,先生。 用心地想想清楚,而不是随便地说出点什么。 当你恐惧的时候那感觉是怎样的? 那是什么样的滋味? 你尝过香蕉的滋味 你尝过各种食物的滋味- 恐惧的滋味是什么? 特别是对那些年长一些的人,年长一些的学生来说。 他们非常的害怕 因为他们必须要通过考试 而且他们的父亲会告诉他们该做些什么。 对吗?对吗? 人们也会告诉你们该做些什么 通过考试,找一份工作- 你们知道诸如此类的事情。 那么恐惧的感觉是什么样的?
19:08 S: You feel like you want to withdraw into something away from what is frightening you. 学:你会觉得想要躲起来 远离令你恐惧的事物。
19:20 K: Yes, you see a cobra, there are several of them here, I believe, I haven’t seen them, long ones and rather poisonous, you are frightened – right? – and you withdraw. What is the feeling of it? 克:是的,你看见一条眼镜蛇 我相信,这里有好几条,但我还没看到那些蛇 身体很长而且非常毒的蛇 你就害怕 - 对吗?- 于是躲了起来。 那是一种什么感觉?
19:41 S: The pain you are going to get. 学:你将要体验到的痛苦。
19:51 K: The pain. Yes, let’s keep to that word, the pain that you might have if a cobra bites. Now, what is that feeling like? You haven’t been bitten but you imagine what might happen – right? – or think what might happen, and you have fear. I am asking you, if I may most politely, what is the feeling of that? Perhaps the older generation will join us. What is the feeling of fear? Think it out sir, go on, don’t go to sleep, early morning. 克:痛苦是的,让我们紧贴这个词 如果眼镜蛇咬了你,你将会感受到的痛苦。 那么,那种感觉是什么样的? 你还没有被蛇咬到 但是你想象可能会发生什么- 对吗? 或者思考可能会发生什么,接着你就有了恐惧。 我在问你们,如果我可以非常礼貌地问一问 那种感觉是怎样的? 或许年长的一代能加入到我们的谈话中来。 恐惧的感觉是怎样的? 好好考虑一下先生,继续,不要睡着了 现在是清晨。
20:53 S: Sir, maybe your mind is troubled. 学:先生,可能头脑会变得混乱。
20:57 K: The brain is troubled. What do you mean by that? 克:头脑一团糟。你说这话是什么意思?
21:03 S: Sir, you don’t understand what to do. 学:先生,人们会不知所措。
21:06 K: You don’t understand what you’re doing. Right? You see a cobra on the road, or along the path, and you know it is a poisonous thing – right? – and you run from it, or cry, shout. I’m asking you, what is the feeling behind that? 克:你不知道你在做什么。 对吗? 你在路上,或者在路边看见一条眼镜蛇 你知道它是有毒的 - 对吗? 接着你跑开了,或者大叫起来,叫喊。 我在问你,那背后的感觉是什么?
21:32 S: Sir, you feel slightly restless. 学:先生,你感到有一点不安。
21:42 K: You feel restless, you feel anxious. Right? You get frightened. What is the feeling of that being frightened? 克:你感到不安,你感到焦虑。 对吗?你感到害怕。 那个害怕是什么样的感觉?
21:54 S: You feel insecure. 学:你感到不安全。

克:不安全。
21:57 K: Insecure. What do you mean by that word ‘insecure’? Go on. Examine it step by step. 你所说的“不安全”这个词是什么意思? 继续。一步一步地审视它。
22:07 S: Without protection. 学:没有保护。

克:没有保护。
22:11 K: Without protection. You’ve not been bitten by the cobra. Right? You’ve already preconceived all this. Right? Do you understand what I am saying? You have imagined you might get hurt, you might go to bed, you might die. You get frightened. I’m asking you, you’re not answering my question, if you don’t mind my saying so, what is the feeling of it? What is behind these words? 你还没被眼镜蛇咬到。 对吗? 你已经预想到了这一切。 对吗? 你们理解我所说的吗? 你已经想象到了你可能会受到伤害 你可能会卧病在床,你可能会死。 你感到害怕。我在问你 你没有回答我的问题,如果你不介意我这么说的话 那种感觉是怎样的? 这些词语背后是什么?
22:56 S: You feel as if you just, your muscles tighten up and there’s... I don’t know how to describe it.

K: You tell me.
学:你感觉到就好像 你的肌肉收缩起来,并且有一个 我不知道如何描述它。

克:你来告诉我。
23:10 S: Just as if your heart has stopped beating and sometimes for people like me it just starts beating even faster. 学:就像你的心脏已经停止了跳动 而有时候像我这样的人,心就开始跳得更快。
23:19 K: I don’t understand you. 克:我不明白你的意思。
23:21 S: He says that the heart beats faster. 学:他是说他的心脏跳得更快。
23:24 K: That’s what I want you to tell me. The heart beats faster. 克:那就是我想要你告诉我的。心跳得更快了。
23:30 S: He says, the muscles stiffen.

K: Muscles tighten. By Jove, come up here, old boy. You don’t mind sitting next to me?

S: No, sir.
学:他说,他的肌肉僵硬了。

克:肌肉绷紧了。 老天啊,到这里来,大男孩。 你不介意坐在我身边吧?学:不,先生。
23:40 K: You do mind?

S: No, sir.
克:不介意吗?

克:不,先生。
23:42 K: Then sit next to me. Two monkeys! Heart beats faster. Your muscles contract. Right? And what else happens? Go on, just tell me. You wanted to discuss about fear. That’s what I’m doing. Right? 克:那好,坐在我旁边。 两只猴子! 心跳加快了。 你的肌肉会收缩。对吗? 还会发生什么情况? 继续,告诉我。 你想要讨论恐惧。 这就是我正在做的。对吗?
24:17 S: You feel like hitting it with a stone or something. 学:你想用石头或者别的什么东西打它。
24:22 S: You feel like getting disposed of it. 学:你想把它除掉。
24:30 K: I don’t...

S: You feel like getting rid of it.
克:我不 学:你想除掉那条蛇。

克:你想杀死它。
24:34 K: You want to kill it. All right, your muscles contract. 好的,你的肌肉收缩。
24:54 S: You feel as though a bell is tinkling inside you. 学:你觉得心里好像有个铃在响。
25:09 K: A bell tinkling inside you. What do you mean by that? 克:有只摇铃在你心里响。你说这话是什么意思?
25:20 S: You get that sort of feeling. 学:你会产生那样的感觉。
25:22 K: Have you ever been really frightened? 克:你曾经有过真正恐惧的感觉吗?
25:26 S: Yes, sir. 学:是的,先生。
25:29 K: I doubt it. 克:我怀疑你是否有过。
25:33 S: At the moment you want to do something, to run but you can’t do it.

K: Yes, old girl. But I am asking you something else, you’re not telling me.
学:在那一刻你想要做些什么,想要逃跑 但是你无法逃跑。

克:是的,孩子。 但是我问你的是另外的事情,你们没有回答我。
25:43 S: You start sweating, sir. 学:你开始出汗,先生
25:46 K: He said to me, the muscles contract, you know, shrink, and your brain becomes for a second numb, it doesn’t think, it is frightened. Right? 克:你对我说,肌肉收缩,你知道,紧缩起来 而且你的头脑在那一秒变得麻木 它无法思考,它被吓到了。 对吗?
26:09 S: It thinks of the past images. 学:头脑想到过去的某些画面。
26:18 K: It thinks of past images. Does it, at the moment you are frightened, when you see that cobra? Or a second later, ‘By Jove, how dangerous it is’, you run away from it, you kind of throw stones at it from a distance and so on. But you’re not telling me, if you don’t mind my repeating it, what is the feeling behind it? You know that feeling when you get hurt. Right? You know the feeling when you burn your finger. Right? You know the feeling when somebody hits you. I hope nobody does, but somebody hits you. Right? You know the feeling of it. So what is the feeling of fear? Don’t tell me. Carefully think it out. The feeling. The feeling when somebody insults you, you know what it means. Somebody flatters you, you get... Right? So you know the feeling of all that. But I am asking you what is the feeling, the sensation behind fear? 克:头脑想到过去的一些画面。 在你恐惧的那一刻,在你看到眼镜蛇的那一刻,头脑在思考吗? 还是在一秒钟后才想到,“老天啊,多么危险啊” 你跑开了,你从远一点的地方 向它砸石头,等等。 但是你们没有告诉我 如果你们不介意我再重复一次的话,那背后的感觉是什么样的? 你知道当你受到伤害时的感觉。对吗? 你知道当你烧伤你的手指时的感觉。 对吗?你知道有人打你时的感觉。 我希望没有人打你,但是有人打了你。 对吗?你知道那样的感觉。 所以恐惧是什么感觉? 不要告诉我。用心地想想清楚。 那种感觉。 当有人侮辱你时的那种感觉,你知道那是什么意思。 有人夸赞你,你变得是不是? 所以你知道所有那些情形下的感觉。 但是我在问你那是怎样的感觉 恐惧背后的感觉是什么?
27:41 S: You feel frightened. 学:你感到害怕。
27:45 K: Yes, old boy, I said that, you feel frightened. But what is the feeling behind it? 克:是的,大男孩,我说过了你感到害怕。 但是害怕背后的感觉是什么?
27:53 S: Sir, I think it’s a feeling of complete confusion. 学:先生,我想那是一种完全迷惑的感觉。
28:04 K: A feeling of confusion. What does that word ‘confusion’ mean? You see, you don’t think it out. 克:一种迷惑的感觉。 “迷惑”这个词是什么意思? 你看,你没有想清楚。
28:16 S: You don’t know what to do. 学:你不知道应该做什么。
28:20 K: You don’t know what to do. Quite right. Go on, go on, say some more. 克:你不知道应该做什么。非常正确。 继续,继续,再说一些。
28:35 S: You don’t know if you do something, it will be right or wrong. You’ve not had the experience.

K: Yes. So your muscles contract – right? Your brain is confused, there is a feeling of isolation, you know what that means?

S: Yes.
学:你不知道如果你采取了行动,会是正确的还是错误的。 你没有那样的经验。

克:是的。 所以你的肌肉收缩。- 对吗? 你的头脑很困惑,有一种孤立的感觉 你知道那是什么意思吗?学:是的。
28:57 K: A feeling of being completely isolated from others. You’re facing a cobra, facing something dangerous and you feel... you shrink. Right? The feeling... 克:一种与其他人完全隔绝的感觉。 你正面对一条眼镜蛇,面对危险 而且你感到你紧缩起来。对吗? 那种感觉
29:16 S: You are just stunned at that moment. 学:你在那一刻呆若木鸡。
29:29 K: Stunned. That’s it. Stunned. When you have fear you feel stunned, your nerves are all shrunk. Right? You feel you’re isolated and so on, so on. Now, just a minute. You feel all that, then what do you do? She asked that question, she said, ‘Talk about fear’, fear of passing examinations or not passing. Right? Fear of failure, fear of your parents, fear of your educators, fear of snakes – fear. Right? You have dozens of fears. Right? Dozens of them. Agree? Right? Now, what causes fear? What is the cause? You understand when I am using the word ‘cause’? Do you understand the word, when I use ‘cause’? 克:呆若木鸡。正是那样。呆若木鸡。 当你感到恐惧,你会呆若木鸡 你的神经都紧缩起来。对吗? 你觉得被孤立起来,等等,等等。 现在,请等一下。 你感觉到了所有那些,接着你会做些什么? 她问了那个问题,她说 “请讨论恐惧” 能否通过考试的恐惧。对吗? 对失败的恐惧,对你父母的恐惧 对老师们的恐惧,对蛇的恐惧 - 恐惧。 对吗?你有一大堆的恐惧。 对吗?一大堆的恐惧。 同意吗? 对吗? 那么,是什么造成了恐惧? 原因是什么? 当我使用“原因”这个词的时候,你们明白它的含义吗? 当我使用“原因”的时候,你们明白这个词的含义吗?
30:52 S: Yes. What is the motivation.

K: What is the motivation? What is the beginning of fear? What starts fear? What is the cause, what is the root, what is the basis of fear. I have used several words ‘cause’, ‘motive’, the ‘root’. Right?
学:是的。 恐惧的动因是什么。

克:它的动因是什么? 恐惧的源头是什么? 什么引发了恐惧? 恐惧的成因是什么,它的根源在哪里 恐惧的基础是什么。 我已经用了几个不同的词 “成因”,“动因”,“根源”。 对吗?
31:20 S: You suppose when you think that this may happen. You say, ‘Suppose I don’t pass my exam, what will my parents say?’ So you think this might happen and so you feel fear. If I don’t pass the examination, what will my parents think of me. 学:当你设想这样的事情可能发生时,你会假设。 你会说,“假设我没有通过考试,我的父母会怎么说呢?” 所以你想这有可能发生,于是你感到恐惧。 如果我没有通过考试,我的父母会怎么看我。
31:38 K: Yes. Yes. That is, what will others think of you if you fail your exam. I hope you all will fail! 克:是的,是的。 就是那样,别的人会怎么看你 如果你没有通过考试的话。 我希望你们考试都通不过!
31:58 S: If you think of the future, you then get scared. 学:如果你想到未来,你就开始害怕了。
32:05 K: Now, there are one, two, three talking at once. 克:现在,这里有一个,两个,三个人在同时说话。 学:你想到将来,接着就
32:16 S: You think of the future and then... 克:等一下,等一下,等一下 - 在这里停下来。
32:24 K: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute – stop there. What do you mean by the future? 你所说的将来是什么意思?
32:32 S: What’s going to happen to you. 学:会发生在你身上的事情。
32:34 K: What might happen. Right? If I fail in my examination, and I hope you all will, and you think of the future, what your parents say, what your teachers say. Right? What do you mean by the future? 克:可能发生的事情。对吗? 如果我没有通过考试,并且我希望你们都没有通过 然后你想到将来 你的父母会怎么说,你的老师会怎么说。 对吗?你所说的将来是什么意思?
33:01 S: Sir, what might happen. Somebody might hit you, you might be degraded. 学:先生,有可能发生的事情。有人可能会打你,你可能会被贬低。
33:04 K: Future. I understand, old boy. What do you mean by future? 克:将来。我明白,大男孩。 你所说的将来是什么意思?
33:11 S: What is going to happen in the past? 学:过去将会发生什么事情?(笑声)
33:21 K: The past is over! I’m asking you what is the future. What do you mean by the word? Please do listen – this is important for you. What do you mean by the future? 克:过去已经结束了! 我在问你们未来是什么? 你所说的那个词是什么意思? 请认真听我说- 这对你们是很重要的。 你们说的未来是什么意思?
33:38 S: What might happen.

K: What might happen. That is, you might – not you, I hope – I might get ill, I might be killed, I might be wounded. That is all the future, isn’t it? ‘I might be’. Right?
学:可能发生的事情。

克:可能发生的事情。 那就是说,你可能 - 我希望不是你 - 我可能会生病 我可能会被杀死,我可能会受伤。 那所有的都是未来,不是吗? “我可能会”。对吗?
33:59 S: When you get scared you think it will happen. 学:当你恐惧的时候,你觉得那是将要发生的事情。
34:05 K: Yes. Now, wait a minute, what is the future, I’m asking you. Tomorrow is the future. Isn’t it? Right?

S: Yes, sir.
克:是的。 那么,等一下,未来是什么,我在问你。 明天是未来。不是吗? 对吗?学:是的,先生。
34:16 K: Next second is the future. Next second. Next hour. Right? So, I’m asking you what do you mean by the future? Careful. Think it out carefully. Don’t just say something that comes to your... Future. 克:下一秒也是未来。下一秒。 下一个钟头。对吗? 所以,我在问你,你所说的未来是什么意思? 请用心。用心想明白。 不要只是随随便便地说些到嘴边的话 未来。
34:39 S: Future is when you don’t know what is going to happen. 学:未来就是当你不知道将要发生什么的时候。
34:42 K: I said that. That means the future. Right? What might happen, what might not happen, I hope it will happen, I hope it will not – all that is future. Right? You might grow taller, I might grow shorter – might, might, might. So, the word ‘might’ implies the future, a possibility. Right? It might happen. The roof might fall down. I might get ill. All that is implied – future. Right? Agreed to that?

S: Yes, sir.
克:我已经说过那样的话了。那就是未来。 对吗?可能会发生的事情,可能不会发生的事情 我希望那会发生,我希望那不会发生 - 所有的那些都是未来。 对吗? 你可能会长高,我可能会变矮- 可能,可能,可能。 所以,“可能”这个词隐含着未来,一种可能性。 对吗?那可能会发生。 屋顶可能会掉下来。 我可能会生病。 所有的那些都隐含其中- 未来。 对吗?同意我说的吗?学:是的,先生。
35:27 K: Now, what is future? That is tomorrow. Today, it is now 5 minutes past 10 and in another 5 minutes it will be 10 minutes past 10 – future. Think it out. This is important for you. What do you mean by the future? 克:那么,什么是未来?未来是明天。 今天,现在是十点过五分 那么,五分钟后就是十点过十分了- 那是未来。 想明白。这对你们很重要。你们所说的未来是什么意思?
35:51 S: What is going to happen tomorrow. 学:未来就是明天会发生的事情。
35:53 K: Darling, we said that, dear. We said, future is what might/might not happen. Future is tomorrow. Right? Future is the next second. Right? So, what does that mean – future? It is too complicated for you. 克:亲爱的,这点我们已经说过了。 我们说了,未来就是可能会发生或者不发生的事情。 未来就是明天。对吗? 未来是下一秒钟。对吗? 所以,那是什么意思- 未来? 这对你们来说太复杂了。
36:19 S: Future is something unknown to you. 学:对你而言,未来就是未知的事物。
36:25 K: Is it unknown to you? 克:对你来说是未知吗?
36:32 S: At times it might be known to you. If you know what might be happening, if you know you are going to get into the college or something, then you will know what will happen to you. 学:有时候你可能是知道的。 如果你知道什么会发生的话 如果你知道你会进大学或者其他的事情 那么你就会知道什么事情会在你身上发生。
36:48 K: Yes, if you pass the exam. Right? 克:是的,如果你通过考试的话。 对吗?
36:54 S: When somebody tells you what’s going to happen then you know the future.

K: Yes, old boy. We have been through all that, when we said ‘it might happen’ it’s always in the future. Right? Right? Or it may not happen – it’s future. It is too difficult for you. So, fear means either now, actual fear now, or in the future. Right? Right? Are you afraid now?
学:当有人告诉你将要发生什么的时候 那么你就知道未来了。

克:是的,大男孩。 那些我们都已经说过了 我们说了“那有可能会发生”那些总是在未来发生。 对吗?对吗? 或者那有可能不发生- 那就是未来。 对你们来说,这太难了。 所以,恐惧意味着要么是现在 现在真实的恐惧,要么是未来的恐惧。 对吗?对吗? 你们现在恐惧吗?
37:37 S: Not now.

K: Why?
学:现在没有。

克:为什么?
37:40 S: Because there is nothing to fear. 学:因为现在没什么可恐惧的。
37:42 K: There is nothing to fear. Right? But when you enter the class you’ll... Here nobody is telling you what to do, what not to do, what to think, what not to think. Nobody is telling you that. Therefore, you don’t care. Or you are really listening to find out. Right? No, you’re too young, too small. Fear is one of the most difficult things to understand and to be free of it. Right? People have gone to war, killed each other on account of fear. You understand? ‘I might lose my country, I might lose my property, I might not belong to this group’ – you understand? So war, killing, has been going on for 2 million years. You understand this? For 2 million years human beings have killed each other. 克:现在没有什么可恐惧的。对吗? 但是当你进入课堂的时候,你会恐惧 现在没有人告诉你要做什么,不要做什么 该想些什么,不该想什么。 没有人告诉你那些。因此,你不在乎。 或者你在真正地聆听着去发现。 对吗?不,你们太年轻了,太小了。 要理解恐惧并从恐惧当中解脱 是最困难的事情之一。对吗? 因为恐惧的缘故,人们去参战,互相杀戮。 你们明白吗?“我可能失去我的国家 我可能失去我的财产 我可能无法属于这个团体”- 你们明白吗? 所以战争,杀戮,已经继续了两百万年。 你们明白这一点吗? 两百万年来,人类互相杀戮。
39:06 S: Why? 学:为什么?
39:07 K: Because he and I belong to one tribe. You and another belong to another tribe. Right? You want our land or we want your land, or we want to steal your property – you follow? This kind of battle, killing, wounding, maiming each other has been going on for 2 million years. 克:因为他和我属于一个部落。 你和另外一个人属于一个不同的部落。 对吗? 你们想要获得我们的土地,或者我们想要获得你们的土地。 或者我们想要窃取你们的财产- 你明白吗? 这样的战争,杀戮,伤害 残害彼此的行为已经持续了两百万年。
39:33 S: Sir, there is division between us. 学:先生,我们之间有种分别。
39:40 K: Division. There is India and Pakistan. That’s a division, isn’t it? So they are willing to kill each other. 克:分别。 印度和巴基斯坦。 那是一种分别,不是吗? 所以他们愿意去彼此杀戮。
39:53 S: Sir, but why? 学:但是,先生,为什么呢?
39:56 K: Why? Very simple. I’m a Pakistani and he is Hindu. I want him to become a Muslim. Right? Or I think my country is bigger, nobler and so on than his country. 克:为什么? 非常简单。 我是巴基斯坦人,而他是个印度教徒。 我希望他变成一个穆斯林信徒。 对吗? 或者我认为我的国家更强大,更高尚 而且在等等的方面都强过他的国家。学:他们在这当中能获得什么呢?
40:24 S: What do they gain in that? What do they gain in making other people Muslim or whatever they are? 他们想把别人变成穆斯林或和他们一样的人,从中能获得什么呢?
40:30 K: That’s just it. What do we gain from it? You answer me. They are silly people. Right? No, listen carefully. This is happening in England, happening in Germany, in America, Russia. It’s happening everywhere. This country is a poor country. Right? You go down the village and you see appalling poverty and yet they are building tremendous armaments. Right? Why? 克:正是那样。我们从中能获得什么呢? 你来回答。 他们是些愚蠢的人。对吗? 不,用心地听我说。同样的事情发生在英国 发生在德国,美国,俄罗斯。 到处都发生着这样的事情。 这个国家很贫穷。对吗? 你到乡村去,会看到令人震惊的贫穷 然而,他们却在大量地制造武器。 对不对?为什么?
41:11 S: Sir, because they want...

K: No, carefully listen. As long as you’re an Indian and you feel you’re an Indian, you’re going to kill somebody. Right? So, nationalism, racialism, tribalism, as long as that exists, you’re going to kill somebody or somebody will come and kill you.
学:先生,因为他们想

克:不,用心听我说。 只要你还是一个印度人 你觉得自己是一个印度人,你就会去杀人。 对吗? 所以,国家主义,种族主义,部落主义 只要那些存在,你们就会去杀人 或者别人就会来杀你们。
41:45 S: Sir, if you have no nationality, then what do you identify yourself with? 学:先生,如果你没有国籍 那么你如何确定你的归属呢?
41:54 K: If you have no nationality, how can you identify yourself with something? Right? Why do you want to identify with India, with America, with Russia – why? 克:如果你没有国籍 你要归属于哪里? 对吗? 你为什么要去归属于 印度,归属于美国,归属于俄罗斯 - 为什么?
42:11 S: Sir, I feel secure as being a part of it. 学:先生,作为某个国家的一部分我感到安全。
42:13 K: Wait a minute, wait. You feel secure. Right? Do you? 克:等一下,等等。你感到安全。 对吗?你感到安全吗?
42:20 S: But then yet you have your fears of your country being fought for. If you are a part of something, if you are a person and can say you are an Indian or something like that, you always have a fear of people coming and attacking you or saying that you should be, what you just said, or a Muslim or something like that. 学:但你还是会恐惧自己的国家被攻打。 如果你是什么的一部分,如果你是一个人 你可以说你是一个印度人或者类似的话 你总是会恐惧人们会来攻击你 或者告诉你,你应该变成怎样的人,就像您说的 变成一个穆斯林或者类似的什么人。
42:47 K: I don’t understand. 克:我不明白你的意思。
42:49 S: She said that you feel insecure if you don’t have a nationality, or if you can’t say you are an Indian or an American. When you say that, you still have the fear of being attacked. 学:她说如果你没有国籍 你就感到不安全,或者当你不能说自己是印度人或者美国人时,同样不安全。 当你那样说了之后,你仍然恐惧会被袭击。
43:06 K: Yes. So you are willing to kill me as a Muslim? Yes? You must be an idiot. Why do you want to kill me? Because I believe in some other god? But why do you want to kill me? 克:所以如果我是穆斯林,你就愿意杀了我吗? 是吗?你一定是个傻瓜。 你为什么想要杀死我? 因为我信仰别的神吗? 但是你为什么想要杀死我呢?
43:27 S: Sir, to get a good name. 学:先生,为了获得好的名声。
43:34 K: To get a good name, by killing me? 克:通过杀掉我,去得到好名声吗?
43:40 S: It seems that you are more powerful after that. 学:那之后,你似乎显得更强大了。
43:48 K: You feel happier for killing me? 克:你因为杀了我而更开心?
43:51 S: No, because then you feel you are more powerful. 学:不,因为那之后你觉得你更强大了。
43:54 S: You feel more secure because then you’ve got... 学:你会觉得更安全,因为那之后你就获得了
43:56 K: You are all rather a crazy crowd! I was invited, if I may talk about it, I hope you don’t mind, I was invited to speak at the United Nations. You know what that is?

S: Yes, sir.
克:你们是多么疯狂的一群人啊! 我曾被邀请,如果我可以谈论这件事的话 我希望你们不介意 有人邀请我去联合国讲话。 你们知道什么是联合国吗?学:是的,先生。
44:14 K: Yes? Yes? Are you sure?

S: Yes, sir.
克:知道吗?是吗? 你们确定吗?学:是的,先生。
44:22 K: Are you sure you are sitting here? 克:你们确定你们正坐在这里吗?学:是的,先生。
44:29 S: Yes, sir. 克:我被邀请去联合国讲话
44:32 K: I was invited to speak at the United Nations and I spoke for 45 minutes. One of the chief organisers of that body after I had spoken he gets up and says, ‘Great privilege’, etc., etc., ‘to meet you, sir’, and so on, and he says, ‘I have worked here in this organisation for 40 years, very hard’. You understand what I’m saying? Forty years he has worked very hard to create, to sustain, to keep the United Nations going and he says, ‘After 40 years I have learnt not to kill another human being’. Do you understand what I’m saying? Are you as dumb as the United Nations? Do you understand what I’m saying? It took him 40 years to learn not to kill another human being. Forty years! Do you understand what I’m saying? Are you going to do the same? 我在那里讲了45分钟。 那个机构的主要组织者之一 在我讲完话之后,他站了起来,说 “见到您,先生,我非常荣幸”,等等,等等 等等的话,接着他说,“我已经在这个组织里工作了 40年的时间,非常努力”。 你们明白我说的话吗? 四十年来他一直努力工作,去建立,维持 维护联合国的运转,他说 “经过40年的时间,我学到了不要去杀人”。 你们理解我所说的吗? 你和联合国的人一样愚蠢吗? 你们明白我正在讲的话吗? 他用了40年的时间才学到,不要杀死另外一个人。 四十年的时间! 你们理解我正在讲的话吗? 你们也要做同样的事情吗?
46:03 S: No, sir. 学:不,先生。
46:05 K: I’m not sure. 克:我无法确定。
46:06 S: At least now I’m not going to do it. At least now I don’t think I’m going to kill another person. But I don’t know when I grow up.

K: That’s right. You will be equally an idiot, will you?
学:至少我现在不会这么做。 至少现在我认为我不会去杀人。 但是长大后的事情我不知道。

克:正是这样。 你也会一样愚蠢,是吗?
46:19 S: I can’t say.

K: You’re quite right. It’s too difficult for you to understand what is the root of fear. Much too difficult. There is fear. You always control it or run away from it or suppress it or cry. Right? But perhaps there is another way of dealing with it altogether. Do you want to know? But that requires a great deal of thinking, a great deal of investigating. How long do you spend studying mathematics or biology or science, how many years? Years, don’t you? School, college, university. You spend about 20 or 25 years going through all that. Right? And you won’t even spend ten minutes or five minutes to find out if you can be free of fear. You spend twenty years in some beastly subject and you won’t even spend 5 minutes to understand the nature of fear. That’s correct. Right?
学:我不知道。

克:你说的非常对。 对你们来说,要理解恐惧的根源 太困难了。 实在是太困难了。恐惧存在着。 你总是控制它,或者逃开,压抑它或者大声叫喊。 对吗? 但是或许有另一种全面应对它的方式。 你们想要知道吗? 但是那需要大量的思考 大量的探索。 你们花多长时间学习数学 或者生物、科学,你们用几年的时间? 很多年,是吗? 学校,学院,大学。 你们花20年到25年的时间完成所有那些学习。 对吗? 然而你们甚至不会花十分钟或者五分钟的时间 去探索一下你们能否从恐惧中解脱。 你们花费二十年的时间学习一些残忍的科目 却不愿意花五分钟的时间去了解恐惧的本质。 正是那样。对吗?
47:57 S: Yes, sir. 学:是的,先生。
47:59 K: So, you have to learn a great deal, you have to understand a great deal what is the root of fear. I will tell you very briefly. Fear is involved in time – tomorrow, might happen. Right? So you have to investigate what time is. That’s too difficult for you. Not only by the clock, but what time is. You plant a seed, it takes time to grow. Right? You have a baby, it takes time to become an adolescent. One is unhealthy, then to become healthy takes time. Right? You are learning mathematics or physics or whatever you are learning, and to be able to pass an exam in that subject takes time. It takes time for you to get from here to Madanapalle or to your home. You understand? Time is very important in one’s life. Not only to go from here to there but also to grow, physically grow and then inwardly to grow. All that takes time. And it has taken time from the first man till now, 2 million years, called evolution. Right? So, your whole life is bound by time. You understand? All your life is bound by time. You’re living now, you might die. There is a long number of years. Right? So, our whole life is entangled, is concerned with time. You will pass your exams, you might not pass. Time. Then we have to enquire what is time. It is too difficult. 克:所以,你们必须要学习很多东西 你们必须要了解很多事情 什么是恐惧的根源。 我会非常简要地告诉你们。 恐惧是与时间联系在一起的- 明天,将要发生的事情。 对吗? 所以你们必须去探索什么是时间。 那对你们来说太难了。 不单单是钟表上的时间,而是,时间是什么。 你种下一粒种子,种子需要时间才会生长。 对吗? 你有一个孩子,孩子需要时间才会变成青少年。 一个人身体不健康,那么需要时间他才能恢复健康。 对吗? 你在学习数学或者物理 或者任何其他你在学习的科目 要想通过那个科目的考试,是需要时间的。 你要从这里到默德讷伯莱,是需要花费时间的 或者回到你的家也是需要时间的。你们明白吗? 时间在人的生活当中非常重要。 不但从这里到那里需要时间,成长也需要时间 身体的成长以及内在的成长。 所有那些都需要时间。 并且那被称作进化的过程 两百万年来,从最初的人类进化到现在的人类,是需要时间的。 对吗? 所以,你的整个生命都受到时间的限制。 你们明白吗? 你的整个人生都局限于时间。 你现在活着,但是你可能会死去。 人生可能有很多年。 对吗? 所以,我们整个人生都纠缠于 都与时间相关。 你会通过各种考试,你也可能无法通过 时间。 那么我们必须要探询什么是时间。 这太难了。
50:31 S: Time is relative, isn’t it? 学:时间是相对的,不是吗?
50:35 K: I know that, I said that, lady. I did not purposely use that word because ‘relative’ means something else also, ‘He is my relative’. Now just a minute. Time is relative, but what do you mean by time? Sir, there you are, grown-up people who are going to pass exams who are going to get your jobs, get married. All that takes time. Right? So, is man bound forever to time? No, this is too difficult. What do you say, sir? Do you understand?

S: I didn’t quite understand.
克:我知道,这点我说过了,女士。 我有意没有使用“relative”这个词,因为这个词 还有其它的含义,比如“他是我的亲戚(relative)”。 现在,请等一下。 时间是相对的,但是你所说的时间是什么意思? 先生,你们那边那些成年人,要通过各种考试 你们要找工作,结婚。 所有那些事都需要时间。对吗? 所以,人永远都受限于时间,是吗? 不,这太难了。 你怎么想,先生? 你明白吗?学:我不是很明白。
51:27 K: You don’t quite understand. Look, you are very small now. You will grow up, to be tall, to be... so that takes time, doesn’t it? If you are ill, it takes time to get well. It takes time to get up in the morning, to get ready, all the rest of it, to bathe and all that – it takes time. It takes time to learn a subject, to learn a skill, to learn to plant a seed in the garden and see it grow. Everything in life takes time. Right?

S: Yes, sir.
克:你不是很明白。你看,你现在年纪还很小。 你会长大,长高,成为某个人 那需要时间,不是吗? 如果你生病了,需要时间康复。 早上起床需要时间,需要时间做准备 还有其他所有的事情,洗澡及那一切 - 都需要时间。 学习一门科目,学习一项技术需要时间 学习在花园里种下一粒种子然后看它成长也需要时间。 生活中的每一件事情都需要时间。 对吗?学:是的,先生。
52:13 K: And man is bound by time, to go from here to there. Where do you live? 克:而人类受时间所限 从这里到那里需要时间。 你住在哪里?
52:25 S: Sir, in Bombay.

K: Bombay. It took time for you to come from Bombay to Rishi Valley.
学:先生,我住在孟买。

克:孟买。 你从孟买到瑞希山谷来需要时间。
52:32 S: Yes, sir. 学:是的,先生。
52:33 K: Two nights or one night or whatever it was. And also to pass your exams, to get a job and all that takes time. So, you are bound by time. Right? Clear?

S: Yes.
克:那需要一个晚上或者两个晚上或者不管多长时间。 并且要通过各种考试 找到一份工作,那一切都需要时间。 那么,你是受时间所限的。 对吗?清楚吗?学:是的。
52:52 K: Clear? Right. That means – I won’t go into all this. It’s too complex for you to understand. Whatever you do is bound by time, which is, the past says, ‘You don’t do that’, the past says, ‘Don’t do that’. If you do, you will be punished or you will gain. So, the past is controlling you now. Get it? Understand it very simply first. The past is controlling what you do now. ‘I must not do that’, you have had the same experience and the past says, ‘Don’t do it again, you will get ill’. The past is shaping your thinking which means the past means the time. So, time is shaping what you do now and the future depends on what you do now. 克:清楚了?好的。 那意味着 - 我不会深入所有那些内容了。 对你们而言那太复杂了,难以理解。 无论你做什么都是受限于时间的,也就是说,过去会对你说 “你别那么做”,过去会说,“不要做那件事”。 如果你那样做就会受到惩罚,或者你会有所收获。 所以,过去在控制现在的你。 明白吗? 首先非常简单地去理解这点。 过去在控制你现在所做的事情。 “我一定不能做那件事”,你曾经有过相同的经历 过去说,“不要再那样做了,你会生病的”。 过去在塑造你的思想 那就意味着过去也就是时间。 所以,时间塑造着你现在所做的事情 并且未来取决于你现在所做的事情。
54:09 S: Yes, sir.

K: Clear? Think it out, old boy. Think it out carefully. The past is teaching you, telling you what to do now and what you do now will shape the future. Right? So the future is being now put together, manufactured.
学:是的,先生。

克:清楚吗? 想明白这点,大男孩。用心想明白。 过去在教导你,告诉你现在要做些什么 而你现在所做的事情将会塑造你的未来。 对吗?所以未来是由现在合成的,制造出来的。
54:32 S: At this moment.

K: At this moment. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.
学:就在这一刻。

克:就在这一刻。 明白吗?学:是的,先生。
54:36 K: Are you sure?

S: Yes, sir.
克:你确定吗?学:是的,先生。
54:39 K: So the past controls the present and the present is shaping the future. So careful, think it out. So the future is now being manufactured. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.
克:所以过去控制着现在 现在塑造着未来。 所以请小心地,想明白这点。 所以现在正制造着未来。 明白吗?学:是的,先生。
54:58 K: So the future is now being formed. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.
克:所以未来是由现在形成的。 明白吗?学:是的,先生。
55:05 K: I wonder if you do.

S: Sir, I do.
克:我怀疑你们是否明白了。学:先生,我明白了。
55:08 K: So what you do now is most important. Not what you will do tomorrow. Get it? What you do now is all important because that is going to make your future. Get it?

S: Yes, sir.
克:所以你现在做的事情才是最重要的。 而不是你明天要做的事情。 明白吗? 你现在所做的事情是最最重要的 因为那会创造出你的未来。 明白吗?学:是的,先生。
55:33 S: Sir, is time limited?

K: Don’t bother, old lady. Don’t ask abstract questions because I can give you an abstract answer but it has no meaning. Time is always limited. So, is there a way – this is much too difficult – is there a way of being free of time?
学:先生,时间是有限的吗?

克:不要费事去考虑那些了,大女孩。 不要问抽象的问题 因为我可能会给你一个抽象的回答 但是那样的回答是没有意义的。时间总是局限的。 所以,有没有一种方式- 这实在是太难了 有没有一种方式可以从时间中解脱?
56:06 S: No, sir. 学:没有,先生。
56:11 K: Why do you say ‘no’? 克:你为什么说“没有”?
56:16 S: Sir, when one is living there is no way, but maybe after death. 学:先生,当一个人还活着的时候是不可能的,但是死后有可能。
56:22 K: Do you know what death means? 克:你知道死亡意味着什么吗?
56:24 S: No, sir.

K: Then don’t use that word. Ask yourself a question. Don’t try to answer it. Ask yourself. Which is, your brain inside the skull is put together through two million years, conditioned, shaped, moulded, experience, knowledge, all that is there. Now, can you now do what is right so that it will be right all the way along? You understand my question?

S: Yes, sir.
学:不知道,先生。

克:那么就不要用那个词。 向你自己提问。 不要试图回答那个问题。 问你自己。 那就是,你头颅之内的头脑 是经过了两百万年形成的 它被局限,被塑造,被铸造,经验,知识 那一切都在头脑中。 那么,你现在可以做正确的事情吗 因而从此以后,就会一直是正确的? 你理解我的问题吗?学:是的,先生。
57:18 K: This is too difficult. Right? 克:这太困难了。对吗?
57:28 S: Sir, what’s the true meaning of concentration and attention? 学:先生,专注和全神贯注的真实含义是什么?
57:42 K: Do you really want to know?

S: Yes, sir.
克:你真的想知道吗?学:是的,先生。
57:44 K: Why? Think it out. Think it out. Did somebody else tell you to ask that question? 克:为什么? 想想清楚。想想清楚。 是别人让你来问这个问题吗?
57:54 S: Yes, sir.

K: Ah, that’s it.
学:是的,先生。

克:啊,正是如此。
58:00 S: My father told me that you had once made a comment that you need attention more than concentration. 学:我父亲告诉我您有一次曾经说过 你更需要全神贯注而不是专注。
58:11 K: Your father told you. Why? Do you know what concentration is? Listen, I’m your teacher, your educator, you are looking out of the window, much more interesting than at the page. Right? Right?

S: Yes, sir.
克:你的父亲告诉你的。为什么? 你知道什么是专注吗? 听我说,我是你的老师 你的教育者 你朝窗外看去,窗外的一切比你正在读的书 要有趣的多。 对吗?对吗?学:是的,先生。
58:40 K: I’m the teacher and I say, ‘Please, look at the page’, and you don’t want to look at the page but you want to look at the bird out there. Right? So, he says, ‘Look, if you want to learn, look at the page’. And he gets annoyed if you keep on looking at the window. So, he comes up and shakes you, or pulls your ear, or pulls your hair or beats you up. Nobody beats you up here, I hope. No. So what happens? You want to look out of the window but somebody says ‘Look at the page’. So you have a conflict, don’t you? You want to look out there and you want to look at the page. So you have a conflict. Right?

S: Yes, sir.
克:我是老师,我说,“请你,看课本” 但是你不想看你的课本 你想看窗外的那只小鸟。 对吗? 所以,他说,“听着,如果你想学到东西,请看课本”。 而如果你不断地朝窗外看,他就会生气。 然后,他会走过来,摇晃你的身体,或者揪你的耳朵 或者揪你的头发,或者打你一顿。 我希望,这里没有人打你们。没有。 那么会发生什么? 你想朝窗外看,但是有个人说 “请你看课本”。 所以你就有了冲突,不是吗? 你想朝窗外看,你也想看课本。 所以你就有了冲突。 对吗?学:是的,先生。
59:41 K: So conflict goes not necessarily with concentration. Right? I want to concentrate on the page. I force myself to pay a great deal of notice to the page, a great deal of concentration, that means I don’t try to think of anything else but what is on that page. In that process there is a great deal of resistance, conflict, because I want to look out there but I have to look at this page. You understand? So there is a great deal of conflict, a great deal of effort. I won’t go into it. Whereas attention has no effort. Whoever asked you to ask me that question, tell them that. In attention there is no effort at all. You attend. We have been together this morning for an hour. Do you want to go on? 克:所以冲突不一定和专注一起出现。 对吗? 我想专注于课本。 我强迫自己竭尽全力注意书本的内容 非常的专注,那意味着没有试图去 思考其他的事情,而只是专注于书本的内容。 在那个过程中,存在着非常多的抵抗 冲突,因为我想要朝窗外看 然而我必须要看书。 你们明白吗? 所以其中有非常多的冲突,非常多的努力。 我就不深入这点了。 然而全神贯注是不费力的。 无论是谁让你问我这个问题,就这么告诉他。 在全神贯注中是完全无需努力的。 你只是关注。 今天早晨,我们已经一起度过了一个小时。 你们还想继续吗?
1:01:12 S: Yes, sir. 学:是的,先生。
1:01:13 K: Yes? Why? 克:是吗?为什么?
1:01:16 S: It’s interesting.

K: It’s more fun! And there is a class waiting for you and you don’t want to go to the class but you want to be entertained! Right? Have you ever looked at those flowers?
学:这很有意思。

克:这更有趣一些! 而你们接下来还要上课 可你们不想上课,而是想在这里找些娱乐! 对吗? 你们曾经好好看过那些花吗?
1:01:44 S: Yes, sir. 学:是的,先生。
1:01:47 K: Have you looked at them? Look at them. Take time and trouble to look at those flowers for a minute. Look at it. Look at the mixture of colours, and the beauty of it, the setting of it, the light on it. Now, what does that mean to you? Don’t say, ‘beauty’, or... What does it mean to you? When you look at all that spread of colour and the variations in that colour, the green against the red, the further dark green and all that, what does it mean to you? 克:你们看过那些花吗?请看一看。 花点时间和精力去看看那些花,看一分钟。 请好好看一看。 看一看那糅合在一起的色彩,还有它的美 它的摆放,洒在花朵上的光。 那么,对你来说那意味着什么呢? 不要说,“美”,或者那对你来说意味着什么? 当你看着那铺展开来的各种色彩 以及色彩中那丰富的变化 绿色衬托着红色,还有更深一些的绿色 以及那一切,那对你来说意味着什么呢?
1:02:48 S: What does it mean to you, sir?

K: I will tell you in a minute. I asked you the question first.
学:对您来说有什么意义,先生?

克:我等一下会告诉你。 我先问了你这个问题。
1:02:54 S: Sir, it means that why do we want all these houses and what we call mechanical things when we’ve got all this from natural life. 学:先生,那意味着我们为什么想要 所有那些房子和那些我们称作机械化的东西 如果我们已经从大自然中得到了这一切。
1:03:23 K: It is much easier to look at a mechanical thing. But to look at nature, the hills and the shadows, the rocks, the shape of the rocks, the fields, how they are sown, all in a line, or mangoes growing, and the birds, and the butterflies, and the green earth, the shadow, the waterless stream and so on. Look at it. Look at the beauty of it, the greatness of it, the majesty of those rocks. But you are all concentrated on books. Right? On books, passing exams, getting a job, getting married and having a house. That’s all you are interested in. Right? Right, sir? But beyond the house there is the horizon. Right? Beyond the house are all these marvellous hills and beauty and greatness. Sir, is that enough for this morning? Yes? Are you going to have a nice day? 克:去看一件机械化的东西要容易多了。 但是要观看大自然,那些山丘和树影 那些岩石,岩石的形状 那些田野,如何播种,一切都井然有序,或者芒果正在生长 还有小鸟和蝴蝶还有绿色的大地 树荫,干涸的小溪,等等。 看看那些。 看看它们的美,它们的伟大 那些雄伟的岩石。 但是你们所有人都专注于书本。 对吗? 读书,通过考试 找到一份工作,结婚并拥有一栋房子。 那些就是你们感兴趣的一切了。对吗? 对吗,先生? 但是在越过房子的远处,还有一道地平线。 对吗? 在越过房子的远处,还有那奇妙的群山 还有美和伟大。 先生,今天早晨讲这么多可以吗? 可以吗? 你们会度过美好的一天吗?
1:05:22 S: Yes, sir.

K: Yes, sir? Have a nice day.
学:是的,先生。

克:是的,先生?祝你们有美好的一天。
1:05:28 S: Thank you, sir.

K: Enjoy yourself. Right? Tell the class to go ahead! You know what I am inciting you? You know what that means?

S: No, sir.
学:谢谢您,先生。

克:玩得开心点。好吗? 和课堂说见鬼去吧! 你们知道我在煽动你们做什么吗? 你们知道那是什么意思吗?学:不知道,先生。
1:05:50 K: Inciting you – to blow up. You can’t. Don’t blow up with guns and dynamite as they are doing. Have a good day. Have a nice day. Right? Have a happy day. It’s a beautiful morning. Enjoy it. All right, sir. 克:煽动你们 - 爆发出来。 你们做不到。 请不要像那些人所做的一样,用枪支和炸药去爆炸。 祝你们今天过得开心。度过美好的一天。 好吗?开心地过一天。 这是一个美丽的早晨。 享受它。 好的,先生。