克里希那穆提 - 拥有彻底的意识意味着什么？

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA77D1 - 拥有彻底的意识意味着什么？
公共讲座 1
萨能,瑞士
1977年 7月 27日

0:25	Krishnamurti: We are going to have a dialogue about any subject. Dialogue implies conversation between two people, people who are concerned about serious things. It is not an intellectual game, or idealistic exchange, or exchange of mere ideas, but rather it is a conversation – I hope friendly – between us. So what shall we start with?	克里希那穆提：我们将进行一次对话，谈什么都行。对话意味着两个人—— 两个关心一些严肃问题的人——之间的交谈。这不是一场智力游戏，或者理想化的思想互换，也并非只是观念的交换，而是我们之间的一次 ——我希望是友好的——交谈。那么，我们应该从哪里开始呢？
1:25	Questioner: I am a student confronted with theories and divisive speculations, and my mind is occupied with this for eight to ten hours a day. And I have a great passion to live a simple life, a life with beauty, among all these complex circumstances. Is that possible?	提问者：我是一个学生，我面对着各种理论以及充满分歧的揣测，我的心每天都被这些占据八至十个小时之久。然而，我怀揣着一种对过一种简单的生活、一种美好生活的巨大热忱，即便身处这片复杂混沌的环境之中。那是可能的吗？
2:01	K: The questioner says – I don't know if I need to repeat it, must I?	克：提问者说 ——我不知道是否需要复述一下，需要吗？
2:06	Q: Yes. K: All right. The questioner says that he is a student dealing with theories, ideas, speculations, and he wants to lead a very simple life, a life of beauty, quietness, and fairly simple. How is this to be managed? Any other questions?	问：是的。克：好的。提问者说他是一个学生，他面对着各种理论、观念、揣测，然而，他想要过一种非常简单的生活，一种充满了美好、宁静并且相当简单的生活。这要如何做到呢？还有别的问题吗？
2:50	Q: (inaudible) I can't hear, sorry. If somebody hears it, will you repeat it to me, please?	问：（听不清）抱歉，我听不见。如果有人听见了，请你复述给我好吗？
3:10	Q: According to you, your viewpoint and philosophy, suffering is a means to promote man's perfection. But suffering is not necessary anymore...	问：就你而言，根据你的观点以及哲学，苦难是一种提升人类完美程度的途径。可是，苦难已经不再是必要的
3:44	Q: Your philosophy says suffering is necessary to...	问：你的哲学认为我们需要受苦来
3:49	K: Are you saying, many philosophies and teachers say that suffering is necessary, is that it? All right, that is one question. Another?	克：你是不是说，有许多的哲学和老师都说苦难是必要的，是那样的吗？好的，那是一个问题。有别的问题吗？
4:09	Q: Is it possible to look at the psychological and physiological state as one?	问：是否可能把心理上和生理上的状态作为一个整体来观察？
4:17	K: Is it possible to observe the physiological as well as psychological states as one movement. Obviously.	克：是否可能把生理上和心理上的状态当做同一个运动来观察。显然是可能的。
4:36	Q: You said the other day that we should keep our discontent alive so that we would want to alter the world as it is today. Later on in the same talk you said that we should be able to live so that we have no conflict. I can't quite understand each of the two parts and I can't take them as one.	问：你前些天说过，我们应当让我们的不满保持活力，这样我们才会想要改造当今的世界。之后，在同一次谈话里，你说，我们应当有能力去生活，这样我们就不会有冲突。这两部分我都不太理解，我也无法把它们当成一个整体来理解。
5:08	K: I didn't hear the first part of the question.	克：我没听见问题的第一部分。
5:10	Q: First you said that we should keep our discontent alive, so that we would want to alter the world as it is today.	问：首先，你说过，我们应当让我们的不满保持活力，这样我们才会想要改造当今的世界。
5:25	Q: She said: one day you said we should keep our discontent alive,	问：她说：有一天你曾说过，我们应当让我们的不满保持活力，
5:31	Q: and the other day you said – K: No conflict. To keep discontent alive without conflict. Is this possible. Or one day you said be discontented and also live – in the next talk – without effort. How do you bring this about, together?	问：然后另一天你说…… 克：不要有冲突。在没有冲突的情况下，让我们的不满保持活力。这是否可能。或者，有一天你说了要保持不满，同时——接下来又说到——也要不费力气地生活。你是如何把这些整合在一起的？
6:03	Q: Why is it so difficult to be totally aware?	问：为什么全然地觉知是如此困难？
6:07	K: Why is it difficult to be completely and totally aware.	克：为什么保持彻底全然的觉知很困难。
6:17	Q: How can a person who has died to all attachments function in the material world?	问：一个人在抛开了所有依恋之后如何继续在这个物质世界上生活？
6:23	K: How can a human being, unattached totally – is it possible to function in this world. Is that enough?	克：一个人如何在完全无所依恋之后 ——是否可能继续在这个世界上生活。差不多够了吧？
6:59	K: What do you mean by responsibility? I think that's enough. May we start with these few questions together and go on with them, shall we?	克：你说的“责任”是什么意思？我觉得问题够多了。我们先一起来讨论这几个问题，然后再由它们深入下去，好吗？
7:21	One wants to live a simple life, uncomplicated, and yet at the same time a beautiful life. But being a student, who is concerned with ideas, speculations, theories and so on, how is this possible? That's one question. The other is: what is responsibility? What do you mean by that word responsibility? And another is, one day in one of your talks you said one must keep this discontent alive, and in another talk, there must be no effort. Is this possible? And how is one – not how – is it possible to be totally and completely aware? Can we start with that?	一个人想要过一种简单的、不复杂的生活，同时还要是一种美好的生活。可是，作为一个学生，他关心的是观念、揣测、理论等等，那么这种生活如何才可能实现？这是一个问题。另一个是：什么是责任？你说的“责任”是什么意思？还有一个问题是，有一天，在你的一次谈话里你说，人必须要让不满保持活力，但是在另一次谈话中，你又说，必须毫不费力。这可能吗？还有，人是如何——不是如何—— 有没有可能全然而彻底地觉知？我们能先讨论这个问题吗？
8:35	I think if we could talk over together as a dialogue, what does it mean to be totally aware, and I think we can then ask the question of responsibility, being a student how to live a life of simplicity amidst the world of theories, ideas and so on. And the other question which is, conflict and discontent. Can we start? Would you object to that? Would any of the questioners object if we start with: what does it mean to be completely and totally aware? Can we start with that? Then I think the other questions will be answered through that.	我认为，如果我们能像一次对话般共同探讨全然地觉知是什么意思，然后我认为我们才可以探讨责任的问题，也就是，作为一个学生，该如何过一种简单的生活，在这充斥着各种理论、观念等等的世界之中。然后，另一个问题是关于冲突和不满的。我们可以开始了吗？你们对此反对吗？是否有任何提问者反对我们先讨论：拥有彻底全然的觉知是什么意思？我们能先讨论这个吗？然后，通过对这个问题的讨论，我认为其他问题也会得到解答。
9:37	According to the dictionary meaning – I prefer to look at the dictionary and see what it means, not translate what I think awareness is, or what you think, but according to the dictionary awareness implies sensitivity: to be sensitive to the environment, to all the things, most of the things that are happening in the world outside, and also to be sensitive, to be aware of what is happening, going on within oneself, within the skin, as it were. That is, to be aware not only to nature, to other human beings, to all the beauty of the world, and the political chaos, the contradictions, the hypocrisy, all that outwardly, and also to be aware inwardly one's own problems, conflicts, desires, misery, confusion and so on. So it is a movement of sensitivity to the outer as well as to the inner. I think that is the real meaning of being aware. We all agree to that, do we? Please, I am not laying down the law, I'm just exchanging with you what does it mean to be aware, that is generally understood.	根据词典的释义 ——我更喜欢查词典来看它的意思，而不是去诠释我认为或者你认为的觉知是什么意思，根据词典，觉知意味着敏感：对周围的环境敏感，对一切事物敏感，感知到外部世界正在发生的大多数事情，同时也很敏锐地觉知到自己的内心世界里、皮囊之下正发生着什么。也就是说，不仅觉察到大自然，觉察到其他人，觉察到世界上所有的美，以及政治的混乱、矛盾、虚伪 ——所有这些外在的东西，同样也要觉知到内在，我们自身的各种问题，冲突、欲望、苦难、困惑等等。因此，这是一种敏锐地感知外在也感知内在的运动。我认为，这是“觉知”的真正意义。我们都同意这点，对吗？拜托，我不是在定下什么条条框框，我只是在和你交流觉知意味着什么 ——人们通常所理解的“觉知”是什么。
11:42	Q: Are you saying that there are two awarenesses or are you just aware of the outer and the inner? Are you saying there are two awarenesses?	问：你是不是说，存在两种觉知？还是说你同时觉知着外在和内在？你是说有两种觉知吗？
11:54	K: I am going into that.	克：我会讨论这点的。
11:58	Q: Excuse me. There are a lot of people here speaking a lot of words, asking questions about awareness. But has it changed their lives, has what you've said made a radical transformation in their lives? That is one thing I would like to ask these people. How many people have actually been changed throughout the years by what you have said?	问：请问，这里有许多人说了很多话，问了很多关于觉知的问题。可是这改变了他们的生活吗？你所说的东西让他们的生活发生根本的转变了吗？这是一个我想要问问这些人的问题。这么多年来，有多少人被你所说的话真正地改变了？
12:28	K: How many people have been changed by your talks. Right? How many people have been radically changed by your fifty years and more of talking all over the world? Right?	克：有多少人被你的讲话改变了。对吗？有多少人已经从根本上转变了 ——通过你在世界各地进行了五十多年的谈话？对吗？
12:53	Q: Ask the people.	问：问问那些人。
12:55	K: Wait. Let us first listen to what he has to say. He says you have talked for about fifty or more years, and has there been any human being, one or two that are radically changed.	克：等一等。我们首先来听一听他要说什么。他说你已经谈论了五十多年，那么是否有任何人，一个或两个人从根本上转变了。
13:17	Q: Like yourself, who is a manifestation of all the words that you speak. It seems to me that people will speak your words but that is as far as it will go. They don't implement your words in action. They don't live what you say.	问：就像你一样，你就是你所讲述文字的一种体现。在我看来，人们可以去复述你的话，但那最多也仅限于语言层面而已。他们没有把你的话落实在行动里。他们没有活出你所说的那样。
13:40	K: I don't quite follow what you are saying.	克：我不是很理解你所说的。
13:43	Q: What I'm saying is that they try and live according to your words instead of trying to follow themselves.	问：我想说的是，他们努力依照你说的话来生活，而不是努力跟随自己的内心。
13:55	K: No, I don't quite understand what he is saying. Would you talk a little more quietly. I will answer it, I'll repeat your question.	克：不，我不是很理解他在说什么。你能私下里跟我说一下吗？我会回答它的，我会复述你的问题。
14:09	Q: What I am asking is this: the people come here, there are a lot of people coming here for many years, and it seems that they have not in their daily life effected this radical change that you are talking about.	问：我问的是：人们来到这里，有很多的人已经来到这里很多年了，然而，他们似乎并没有在日常生活中实现你说的这种根本的转变。
14:23	K: That is what I am going into.	克：那正是我要探讨的。
14:26	Q: Now, I ask myself why.	问：现在，我问我自己为什么会这样。
14:31	K: If you answer the question yourself then it's...	克：如果你能自己解答这个问题，那么
14:33	Q: I can't answer the question because I've not arrived at where you are at. The words seem to be particular and peculiar to you. But they have no meaning or relevance to my life simply because one has got to follow oneself. And it seems quite futile asking questions about what awareness is when you don't know what the meaning of awareness is, and you don't experience it.	问：我不能解答这个问题，因为我还没达到你所在的境界。这些话语似乎是你所特有和独享的。可是，它们对于我的生活是没有意义或关联的，就是因为我们不得不跟随自己的内心。并且，这似乎也是徒劳的——去询问什么是觉知，在你并不知道觉知的意义并且在你还没体验过它时。
15:05	K: We are trying to explain the meaning of that word first: awareness. And with regard to the other question: you have talked for over fifty years, and has there been any one person who is radically transformed by your words? If I may point out, it is not my responsibility to see if anybody is changed or not. It is up to them. It would be an impudent action on my part if I said, have you changed? It is up to each one who listens, or who cares to listen, or who is serious. It is up to them, and not up to me. That's all.	克：首先，我们正尝试着解释这个词的意思：觉知。至于另一个问题： “你已经谈论五十多年了，那么，是否有任何一个人已经从根本上被你的话语转变了？” 恕我指出，去确定是否有任何人转变了，并不是我的责任。这取决于他们自己。于我而言，这是一个无礼的举动 ——如果我问，你转变了吗？这取决于每一个倾听的人，或者想要去倾听的人，又或者是很认真的人。这取决于他们自己，而不是我。就是这样。
16:09	Q: I agree. So they're still not serious.	问：我同意。因此他们仍旧是不认真的。
16:11	K: It is up to you, as well as up to every other person. May we go on?	克：这取决于你自己，取决于其他每一个人。我们能继续了吗？
16:21	Q: Thank you very much. K: Not at all.	问：非常感谢你。克：不用客气。
16:25	K: We were asking: what is it to be aware? We said, according to the dictionary it has several meanings but I am only taking the principal meaning of that word, which is, to be conscious, to be in touch, not verbally, but inwardly, to be in touch, to be conscious, to be sensitive to the outer and to the inner. When one is sensitive there is no division as the outer and the inner. And we are saying, is it possible – that is the question – is it possible to be aware totally, completely. This is a dialogue, I am not giving a speech, so please share in the question and answers. The questioner is saying: is it possible to be completely aware? Is there a difference – I am asking you – between the outer: that is the political, social, economic, and all the things that are happening in the world, the violence, the brutality, the appalling political chicanery, deception, all that is going out there, is it not also going on inwardly? Is society created by us, or society just exists by itself? You understand my question? So if we are related, or are sensitive to what is happening in the world, with all the violence and so on, who is responsible for it? And to be aware of that responsibility, which means to be sensitive, to be conscious of one's own violence, double talk, say one thing and think something else, wanting complete security, nationalities, and so on, can one be totally aware of this movement? That's the question. Please answer it, discuss it, talk it over.	克：我们刚刚在问：“觉知是怎么回事？” 我们说过，根据词典有几种释义，可是，我只采用那个词的主要释义，那就是，察觉、保持联接，不是口头上，而是从内在保持联接、察觉、敏锐地感知外在以及内在的世界。当一个人是敏感的，便没有了外在和内在的区分。于是我们问，这可能吗？ ——这就是问题—— 是否有可能全然而彻底地觉知。这是一次对话，我不是在发表一场演讲，因此请一起分享这些问题和解答。提问者问道：是否有可能全然地觉知？外在和内在是否有所不同——我是在问你—— 外在世界：也就是政治、社会、经济，以及这个世界正在发生的所有事情，暴力、兽行、骇人听闻的政治诡计，骗局，外在世界所发生的一切，不也正发生在我们的内心世界里吗？社会是为我们所造，还是仅靠它自身存在的？你理解我的问题吗？那么，如果我们休戚相关，或者对世上所发生的一切连同所有的暴行等等都敏感，那么，谁应该对此负责？然而，要觉知到这份责任，也就意味着敏感，意味着觉察到我们自身的暴力、自相矛盾的话语，口是心非，渴望绝对的安全，国籍的划分，等等，我们能彻底地觉知这种运动吗？这就是问题所在。请回答它，讨论它，探究它。
19:32	Can a human being, again who is the representative of the whole of humanity, which we discussed very clearly, which is obvious, which is factual. Can a human being be aware of that noise of the train, the wind among the leaves, the beauty of the mountains, the environment, and also be aware what is going on inwardly?	一个人是否能够，再说一次，这个人也代表着全人类，这点我们已经讨论得很清楚了，这是显而易见的，这是事实。一个人是否能够觉知火车的声响，树叶间的风动，山川的瑰丽，周围的环境，并且也觉知到内心世界所发生的一切？
20:31	Is it possible to be aware – no, I must go a little more deeply. One is aware of this tent. Conscious, the shape of it, the structure of it, the length of it, the proportions of it. And also one is conscious, one is aware, sensitive to the people sitting around you, the colour of their dress, how they look, the colour of their shirts, and what the ladies wear and so on, to be aware of it, conscious of it, sensitive to it. But in that awareness comes the question, I like that blue shirt, and I don't like that red shirt, I like that person, I don't like that person, for various reasons. Now can you observe, we are asking, can one observe the person sitting next to you, the dress they wear, the colour, without choosing, without saying I like, I don't like – just to observe? Is that possible, can you do it? That's fairly simple, isn't it? No? Can't you do that?	是否有可能去觉知 ——不，我必须再深入一点。我们觉知到这个帐篷。察觉到它的形态，它的结构，它的长度，它的比例。同时，我们也察觉到、意识到、感知到坐在你周边的人，他们衣服的颜色，他们的面容，他们衬衫的颜色，以及女士们的穿着等等，意识到、察觉到它，敏锐地感知到它。可是在那份觉知里，问题却来了，我喜欢那件蓝色的衬衫，我不喜欢那件红衬衫，我喜欢这个人，我不喜欢那个人，因为各种各样的原因。现在，你是否能观察——我们问，你是否能观察坐在你身边的人，他们的衣着、颜色，而不做评选，不说我喜欢，我不喜欢，而只是去观察？那是可能的吗？你能做到吗？那相当简单，不是吗？不是？你难道做不到吗？
22:14	Q: When you point it out it is possible, but in daily life we don't.	问：当你指出来时，那是可能的，可是在日常生活里我们就做不到。
22:18	K: I am coming to that, you want to go ahead too quickly. You might observe the shirt the speaker is wearing, and you say, well sorry, that's too much colour. I don't like it. It is sewn badly, which is perfectly right, made in India. No, please wait a minute, things are made very well in India, perfectly, but this happened to be a bad tailor. And you can look at it without any condemnation or approval, can't you? That's fairly simple, isn't it?	克：我会谈到那点的，你太急着往前推进了。你可能观察到了说话者身着的衬衫，然后你说，噢，抱歉，这衬衫颜色太花哨了。我不喜欢。做工也很差——这点倒没错，因为它产自印度。不，请等一下，印度制造的东西还是不错的，这完全是实话，只不过这件碰巧做得不好。而你能注视着它，没有任何的谴责或是赞许，你能吗？那相当简单，不是吗？
23:19	Q: Why do you say it is very simple? It is not so simple. K: What?	问：为什么你说这非常简单？这没那么简单。克：什么？
23:29	K: He says, it is not simple for us. To look without judging is not possible.	克：他说，这对于我们来说并不简单。不带评判的观察是不可能的。
23:38	Q: Not 'it is not possible', it is not simple as you say.	问：并不是说 “这是不可能的”，只是并不像你说的那么简单。
23:44	Q: For us, it is very difficult... K: For you.	问：对于我们，这非常困难…… 克：对于你。
23:48	Q: For me. K: Ah, good.	问：对于我。克：啊，好的。
23:57	K: The gentleman is saying it is very difficult for us to be aware without judgement, without judging. And I say, is he speaking for himself, or generally, for all the people in the tent. He said, at last, I am speaking for myself. Now is that so? Can you not observe – please try it, this is a discussion, a dialogue, a conversation – can you observe without judgement, without approval, just to look? Is that not possible? No? It is not possible? Why? Is it because one is so heavily conditioned to like and to dislike? I am just asking, I am not saying you are. I don't like the Russians, or I love the Russians, I don't like this, and I don't like that, but to observe. We will go into it a little deeper afterwards. Can you observe a tree, a mountain, a river, just to look at it? Not say I like, I don't like, this is beautiful, just to look at something. Is that not possible? Because if you cannot do that outwardly, it becomes much more difficult when you go inwardly. It is fairly easy to observe a car and say, that's not a nice colour, or just to look at it. And if one cannot do that then how can you observe yourself without any condemnatory process, just to observe what is actually happening? That is, to be aware without any choice. I believe I was told the other day, when we use that word 'choiceless awareness' that is the essence of religion. May be, may not be. I am just passing it on to you.	克：这位先生说，这对我们来说是非常困难的——去感知事物而不做评价，不做任何评判。然后我问，他是在说他自己，还是一概而论，在说帐篷里的所有人。他最后说了，我在说我自己。那么，是那样的吗？你能不能观察 ——请试一试，这是一场讨论、一次对话、一场交谈—— 你是否能观察而不做评价，不加赞许，仅仅只是观察？这难道不可能吗？不可能？那不可能吗？为什么？是否因为我们深深受制于喜欢或厌恶？我只是在问，我没有说你就是这样的。我不喜欢俄罗斯人，又或者我爱俄罗斯人，我不喜欢这个，我也不喜欢那个，而是去观察它们。之后，我们会更深入地讨论这一点。你能否观察一棵树、一座山、一条河，只是注视着它？不说：我喜欢，我不喜欢，这很美，而只是看着某样东西。这是不可能的吗？因为，如果你不能从外在做到那样，当你走向内在时，便会更加困难。去观察一辆轿车是相当容易的，然后说，那个颜色不好看，又或者只是注视着它。如果我们做不到那样，那么你又如何能观察你自己，不进行任何的贬抑过程，而是仅仅观察实际正在发生的一切呢？也就是说，没有任何选择地觉知。我想前几天有人跟我说过，当我们使用那个词，“无拣择的觉知”时，那其实就是宗教的本质。可能是，也可能不是。我只是在把它传达给你。
26:53	So we are asking: if one is not sensitive, you can't be sensitive if you say, I don't like that, or I do like that. This gives me more delight in looking, and that disgusts me. Because if one is not capable to observe without any movement of thought, which is like and dislike, condemning, accepting, how can one observe the extraordinary complexity of one's own existence inwardly? You understand my question?	现在，我们问：如果一个人不敏感，如果你说，我不喜欢那个，或者我确实喜欢那个，你就无法敏感。看到这个带给我更多的喜悦，而那个令我厌恶。因为，如果一个人不能没有思想活动地去观察的话 ——思想活动就是喜欢和不喜欢，谴责或接受—— 那么，他又如何能观察到自身内心存在的极度的复杂性呢？你理解我的问题吗？
27:38	Q: But perhaps you have to put the same question another way. You have to ask: is there someone here in this tent who can observe in this fashion, in this way?	问：可是，或许你需要用另一种方式来问同样的问题。你需要问：“在这个帐篷里有人能够像这样用这种方式观察吗？”
27:59	K: Bene. The gentleman says, in Italian, is there anyone here in this tent who can so observe without judgement. That will answer that gentleman's question about whether anybody has changed or not. It's up to you.	克：好的。这位先生用意大利语说，在这个帐篷里是否有任何人能够不做任何评判地观察。这也将会回答那位先生的问题，关于是否有人已经转变的问题。这取决于你们。
28:27	Q: It can be done for a moment.	问：可以短暂地做到这一点。
28:32	K: The gentleman says, it can be done for a moment. Just for a second or two you can observe, observe, just observe. But a few seconds later the whole machinery of thought begins. Right?	克：这位先生说，可以短暂地做到这一点。只有一两秒，你可以观察，观察，只是观察。可是几秒过后思想的整个机制便会开始运转。对吗？
29:03	Q: I can do it with will, with the use of will power.	问：我可以用意志做到，运用我的意志力。
29:12	K: My gosh, you people. He can do it with will, he can control and observe. I say that is not possible. When you control your like and dislike and observe, you are not observing totally. You are not giving your whole energy to observe. I can't understand the difficulty in this at all.	克：我的天，你们这些人啊。他能用意志力做到，他能掌控着来观察。我说那是不可能的。当你控制你的喜恶来观察时，你并不是在完整地观察。你没有将你所有的精力用来观察。我完全不能理解这当中的困难何在。
29:43	Q: Maybe there is a difficulty between awareness and thought, there is no frontier.	问：可能难点在于觉知和思想之间没有分界线的存在。
29:50	K: Can't you look at this poor man sitting on the platform, just look at him.	克：你难道就不能看着这个坐在台子上的可怜人，只是看着他。
29:55	Q: Yes, but thought is coming after a while. This is why it is difficult. There is no frontier, separation between awareness and thought.	问：可以，但是思想一会儿之后就会到来。这就是为什么这很难。没有分界线和间隔存在于觉知和思想之间。
30:04	K: No, we are not even going into that. I said, can't you look at the speaker, with his pink or whatever it is, look at him, just look! Without all the machinery of thought saying, I like, I don't like, he is good, he is clever, just to observe, nom d'un chien!	克：不是，我们都还没有讲到那点。我是说，你是否能看着讲话者，他穿着粉色衬衫或随便什么，只是看着他，只是注视着！没有任何思想机制在说，我喜欢，我不喜欢，他很厉害，很聪明，而只是去观察。真是该死！
30:39	Q: There is the fear – if I may speak for myself – that if one does not observe without judging, standards of morality will disappear.	问：请允许我谈点自己的看法，那就是我害怕如果不带着判断去观察的话，那么道德的标准将会消失。
30:48	K: We will come to that, we haven't gone to the very, very complex problem of observing, being aware, inwardly. We are just observing this. Can you listen to that noise of that train without saying, for God's sake, I want to listen to you, and therefore resist the noise of the train?	克：我们会谈到那个的，我们还没有讲到那个非常复杂的问题：观察，内在的觉知。我们只是在观察这个。你是否能倾听那火车的杂音，而不说，天呐，我想听你说话，因此就去抵触火车的杂音？
31:19	Q: Do you mean that it is possible to see, to be aware of all this, or only aware of one thing. Because in the beginning you mentioned the tent, the people, the others, did you mean all this in one moment or different awarenesses only?	问：你是指，有没有可能去看，去觉知所有的一切，还是说只能觉知一件事物。因为，最开始你提到过帐篷，人们，其他人，你是指，同时觉知这一切，还是说，这些只是不同的觉知？
31:38	K: Sir, the gentleman asked – we haven't even approached his question, we are just exploring the question – the gentleman there asked: what does it mean, is it possible to be totally aware? He says, I want to be, I see the importance of it, but I can't do it, what does it mean? He is asking that question. And we are exploring the word, not the significance of the whole thing, just the word. I said the word means to be conscious, to know, to be sensitive. And one cannot be sensitive if there is condemnation, judgement, just to observe.	克：先生，这位先生问道 ——我们还没解决他的问题，我们只是在探索这个问题—— 这位先生问道： “是否有可能完全地觉知？全然觉知意味着什么？” 他说，我想变得觉知，我认识到了它的重要性，可是我无法做到，觉知意味着什么？他在问那个问题。而我们正在探究这个词，不是这整个事物的意义，而仅仅是这个词。我说过，“觉知”的字面意思是去察觉，去了解，去变得敏感。而我们无法敏感 ——如果存在着谴责、评判的话。只是去观察。
32:41	There is that gentleman, Italian gentleman, I have known him for nearly sixty years, seventy? And I look at him, I talk to him, and I have known him for all these years, I never once asked him, have you changed. It is up to him. If he does not change, well it is his misery. It is not my misery.	那位先生，那位意大利先生，我已经认识他近六十年了，七十年？我注视着他，我与他交谈，我认识他这么多年了，我从没问过他，你是否已经转变了。这取决于他自己。如果他没有转变，那么这是他的不幸。这不是我的不幸。
33:25	Q: You have talked for fifty years of your life, or sixty years, in order to produce what result? And you have not produced it.	问：你这一生已经做了五、六十年的演讲，是为了得到什么结果？而你还没有创造出这结果。
33:33	K: I don't want to produce... Sir, you are totally...	克：我并不想要创造……先生，你完全
33:37	Q: You have gone a step further – you have started one school. Now, when you are going into that amount of work, it must be with a specific aim. That you want to produce a result.	问：你已经更进一步了，你建立了一所学校。现在，当你要投身于那项工作时，它必定有一个明确的目标。也就是，你想要得到一个结果。
34:00	K: Would you kindly listen to me. I will answer your question.	克：恳请你听我说好吗？我会回答你的问题。
34:07	Q: You're only answering it with words, what about the people, has it changed the people?	问：你只是在用文字回答它，可人们究竟如何了？这是否改变了人们？
34:12	K: Wait, you have gone back to the question.	克：等等，你又回到这个问题了。
34:15	Q: Excuse me, Krishnamurti, I am not a follower of yours but I would like to clear the point of those two gentlemen over there. His aim is not to enlighten you, that is something you have to do for yourself. His aim in life is to keep and maintain the enlightenment of his own head, and doing what his heart commands him to do.	问：很抱歉，克里希那穆提，我不是你的追随者，可是，我想要帮忙澄清那两位先生的问题。他的目标不是去点化你，那是需要你自己去做的事。他人生里的目标是去保持他自身头脑的彻悟，并且，遵从他内心的指令。
34:43	K: Sir, I can answer the question for myself. Would you please listen. Please, I am talking very seriously: why I am talking. Why I have not deviated for the last sixty years from what I have been saying, I will tell you why if that interests you.	克：先生，我可以自己来回答问题的。请你听我说好吗？拜托，我是在非常严肃地说：为什么我要讲话。为什么在过去的六十年里，我没有背离我一直在说的东西，我会告诉你为什么，如果这让你感兴趣的话。
35:31	First of all, the speaker doesn't expect anything from anybody. Because he said very carefully from the beginning: no authority. He said that sixty years ago. I am eighty-two now. Sixty years ago he said that – no authority, therefore don't follow anybody, including me. You have to be a light to yourself, not light your candle or your fire at the fire or the candle of another, including myself. So you by listening, if you care to listen, are responsible for yourself, not for me. And I also said, the speaker does not expect anything from anybody, all of you. If you want to drink at the fountain, drink it. And if you don't, don't. It is very simple. If I expected anything from you I would be disappointed, I would be hurt. I would feel, my God, I have done nothing in my life. But I don't feel that. I am very serious, I don't feel that way. I am talking – and the urge to talk is born out of compassion – without any cause. I carefully explained, compassion has no cause. So that is why I am talking. And also you might ask a flower on the road side, why do you have such beauty? Why do you have such perfume? And if the flower was able to talk, it would say, look, I am like that, what are you going to do about it?	首先，讲话者并不期待从任何人那里得到任何东西。因为，他从一开始就非常慎重地说过：没有权威。他在六十年前就说过了。我现在八十二岁。六十年前他那样说过——没有权威，因此，不要追随任何人，包括我。你必须成为你自己的光，而不是借着别人的蜡烛或者火焰，去点燃你的蜡烛或你的火焰，包括我本人。因此，通过倾听，如果你愿意倾听的话，你是对你自己负责，而不是对我。并且，我同样说过，讲话者并不期待来自任何人的任何东西，你们所有人。如果你想在喷泉边喝水，喝吧。然而，如果你不想，那就别喝。这非常简单。如果我对你们有任何期待，我会失望，我会受伤。我会觉得，我的天，我的生命一事无成。但是，我并没有这样觉得。我是很认真的，我并没有这样觉得。我在讲话 ——而这讲话的动力诞生于慈悲—— 没有任何缘由。我慎重地解释过，慈悲是没有任何缘由的。所以这就是为什么我在讲话。同样的，你可能会问路边的一朵鲜花，为什么你会这般美丽？为什么你如此芬芳？如果鲜花能够讲话的话，它会说，瞧，我就是这样的，对此你又能怎样呢？
38:01	So let's continue with what we were talking about.	好了，让我们继续刚才讨论的问题。
38:06	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
38:33	K: Madame, we are talking about awareness. Please ask that question. Beg your pardon?	克：女士，我们正在讨论觉知。请问相关的问题。能重复一遍吗？
38:46	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
39:07	K: I don't understand your question. I can't hear it. If somebody has understood will you tell me?	克：我不明白你的问题。我听不见。如果有人理解了，能告诉我吗？
39:20	Q: She says we are conditioned to like and dislike things, food, etc. How can we stop this?	问：她说，我们受限于喜欢和不喜欢，以及食物等等。我们怎样才能停止这样的制约呢？
39:29	K: Yes, we are conditioned to like and dislike, can we talk it over how to stop this. And also I forgot when those questions arose: why you have schools. There too, we are not expecting anything except to help them to understand life. That's all. If they don't it's up to them. Let's proceed.	克：是的，我们受限于喜欢或是讨厌，我们能否讨论一下如何停止这种制约？还有，我忘记了，还有过这样的问题：为什么你创办了学校？同样地，我们并不期待得到任何东西，除了帮助他们去了解生命，仅此而已。如果他们不想，那么这取决于他们自己。让我们继续。
40:17	We are having a friendly conversation, a friendly conversation between two people, you and I, or many of us together, which is about: is it possible to be totally aware. We are going to go into that question. It is a very complex question, and if one can go together into it you will see what is implied in it. But you are refusing. I am saying, to be aware implies to be sensitive, to be conscious of the outer as well as the inner. If one is not sensitive to the outer, it becomes much more difficult to be sensitive to the things that are happening inside the skin as it were. So I began by saying, can you observe something without judgement. That's all. Just to look. Not say, I like. I know you are conditioned, I know it is very difficult, you make it terribly difficult by making it an intellectual thing. But to look at something, just look without all the operation of thought entering into it. If you cannot then it is impossible to look with clarity, without any judgement about what is happening inside you which is very, very complex.	我们在进行一场友好的交谈，一场两人间的友好交谈，你和我，又或者，我们许多人一起，这场交流是关于：是否可能全然地觉知。我们将探究那个问题。这是一个非常复杂的问题，然而，如果我们能一起探究它，就会发现它其中所蕴含的一切。可是，你们在拒绝。我说，觉知意味着敏感、察觉外在也觉知内在。如果我们对外在不敏锐，那么，就会更加难以敏锐地感知皮囊里所发生事情的本质，因此，我一开始便问，你是否能不做评判地去观察某个事物，就是那样。只是去观察。而不是说，我喜欢。我知道你被制约着，我知道这非常困难，你把它当作一件智力上的事，更使它变得极度困难。然而，要观察某个事物，只是观察，没有任何的思想运作去干涉它。如果你做不到，那么，便不可能清明地、不做任何评判地观察你内心正发生着什么，那是非常非常复杂的。
42:15	So I just began by pointing out, to look at the outer without any judgement. If that is not possible, find out why it is not possible, not how to be free of the conditioning, but why is it not possible. Find out. It is not possible because your whole education from childhood has been to develop this conditioning of like and dislike. I like Italians, I hate the Russians. That's how we operate. Or, I hate the person who is speaking here. So it doesn't matter.	因此，我一开始便指出，要不做任何评判地观察外在事物。如果那不可能做到，那就找出不可能的原因，不是问如何摆脱制约，而是为什么那不可能。找出原因。那不可能是因为，你从童年起的整个教育就已养成了这种喜恶的制约。我喜欢意大利人，我憎恨苏联人。这便是我们的运作方式。或是，我憎恨这个正在讲话的人。因此，这并不要紧。
43:06	I am just asking you kindly to observe what is happening outside: violence, divisions of religion, political divisions, building up instruments of war. This is happening outside. Concentration camps, people who disagree politically are sent to mental hospitals, torture. All this is going on outside. Can you look at it first without identifying yourself with any of them. If you cannot do it, find out why. Is it because you are an Englishman who is so stuck in his conditioning, or an Indian who is so traditionally bound? Nationality in India didn't exist at all for centuries, millennia. It is only the British, and other foreigners, brought it in, and they began the national wars, conflicts and all the rest of the nonsense.	我只是在恳请你去观察外界正发生着什么：暴行，宗教的分裂，政治的分歧，战争武器的壮大。这都在外界发生着。集中营，持不同政见的人们被送进精神病院，饱受折磨。这一切都在外界发生着。你是否能首先观察这些，而不把自己与它们认同起来。如果你做不到，去找出原因。是否因为你是一个受困于自身制约的英国人，或是一个受传统束缚的印度人？国籍的概念在印度几百、上千年来都是完全不存在的。这概念不过是英国人，以及其他外国人所引进的，并且，他们发动了民族战争、冲突以及余下的那些荒唐事。
44:44	So, if you are aware of that let's move inwardly. Can you look at yourself without any judgement? I want to live a very simple life – that is one of the questions – but I am surrounded by ideas, theories, speculations, and that gives me a degree. Therefore how am I to live, simply? So this is one of the problems. Look into it. We are asking, can you look at yourself, not according to me, or according to Jung, Freud, or professional psychologists, just to look at yourself? As you look at yourself, immediately you say, I am bad or I am evil, or I am jealous. The whole machinery of the past, the tradition, the thought begins. But before the thought begins just have a space, a little space, so that you can look without that machinery quickly coming into action. You understand? It seems so simple.	因此，如果你觉知到了外在，那么，就让我们转向内在。你是否能不做任何评判地观察你自己？我想要过一种非常简单的生活——那是其中一个问题—— 可是我被各种观念、理论、揣测所围绕，而这些能给我一个学位。那么，我要如何简单地生活呢？这是其中一个问题。去探究它。我们在问，你是否能观察你自己，不是依据我的看法，或是依据荣格、弗洛伊德，又或者专业的心理学家，而只是观察你自己？当你观察自己时，你即刻便认为，“我是坏的或者我是邪恶的，又或者我很善妒。” 于是，过往的、传统的、思想的整个机械运作开始了。然而，在思想运作之前，要拥有一个空间，一点点的空间，这样你就能在思想机制尚未迅速运转时就去观察。你理解了吗？这是如此简单。
47:21	Q: Shall we give importance to everything or to nothing?	问：我们是否应当看重一切事物，还是不看重任何事物？
47:28	K: Shall we give importance to some things and not to others. Sir, we haven't come to that yet. You see, we have already started – what is important, what is not important. I am looking at myself, I haven't come to anything. Look, I'll begin: I want to look at myself, I want to see what I am, not who I am. What is all this going on in me? I just want to look first. I see I can only look without distortion if there is no judgement, right? I see that. But being conditioned, having been conditioned so long – society, education, family, tradition says you must judge – I know that. I have been conditioned. I say I'll hold that a minute, I'll hold that back, but I just want to look. Right? Are you doing this as we are talking together? Or you have just gone off. Are we doing this together?	克：我们是否应当重视某些事物，而不重视另一些事物？先生，我们还没有讨论到那一点。你看，我们已经开始讨论 ——什么是重要的，什么是不重要的。我在观察我自己，我没有得出任何结论。注意，我要开始了：我想要观察我自己，我想要知道自己真实的样子，而不是我是谁。在我内心发生的这一切是什么？首先，我只想要观察。我认识到，只有内心没有任何的扭曲，没有任何的评判，我才能观察，对吗？我认识到了这点。可是，我们都深受制约，受制约这么久了 ——社会、教育、家庭、传统都说你必须评判—— 我了解这一切。我一直深受制约。我说我要暂且抓住这一点，我要守住这个，但我只是想看看。对吗？当我们一起谈话时，你是在这样做吗？或者，你已经走神了。我们是在一起这样做吗？
48:54	Q: Yes. K: Right. That is, I want to look at myself. I want to see exactly the shape of my face in the mirror. I look at myself in the mirror, the outer, and my face is my face. I can't say, well, I wish I had a straighter nose, or whatever it is. I just look first. Then I say to myself, I wish it were not like that. Why do I say it? Because I think your nose is better than mine. So comparison is born. You understand, are you following this? Now, can I look without comparison? My interest is to look, is to observe, and therefore as my interest is tremendously strong to look, comparison fades away. Because my whole urgency, urge is to observe. Therefore comparison doesn't exist at that moment, it may come later, I will deal with it later. But at the moment my interest is so great that I want to look. That interest pushes aside all comparison.	问：是的。克：好的。那就是说，我想要观察我自己。我想要在镜中准确观察我的面容。我在镜中观察我自己，就外表而言，我的面容就是这样的。我不能说，我希望我有一个笔直点儿的鼻子，或者其他的什么。首先，我只是观察。然后我对自己说，我希望它不是那样的。为什么我这么说？因为我认为你的鼻子要比我的好看。由此衍生出了比较。你理解吗？这一点你跟上了吗？现在，我是否能没有比较地观察？我的兴趣是去看，去观察，并且，由于我的观察兴趣极度强烈，比较便逐渐消失了。因为，我整个的当务之急、迫切需求是观察。因此，比较在那刻就不存在了，它可能随后会到，我之后再去处理它。可是当下，我想去观察的兴趣是如此强烈。那样的兴趣把一切比较都推开了。
50:51	Now, have you got that interest? I am not saying you must have it. Have you got it? If not, why not? You understand my question? If you haven't got that tremendous interest to know what is happening in the world, and what is happening inside you, and you have created the outer, the society, the whole structure is created by human beings, and as you are a human being who is the representative of all humanity, you are responsible for this terrible state. So I just want to observe.	那么，你已经有那样的兴趣了吗？我不是说你必须得有。你已经拥有它了吗？如果没有，为什么没有？你理解我的问题了吗？如果你还没有那样强烈的兴趣想去了解这个世界上正发生着什么，你内心正发生着什么，而是你创造了外在世界，社会，整个社会结构都是人类所创造的，并且，因为你是一个人，你是全人类的代表，你对这糟糕的现状是负有责任的。所以，我只想要观察。
51:46	Q: If you say, I look at my face, it's a judgement.	问：如果你说，我观察我的面容，这就是一种评判了。
51:51	K: What? Q: Even if you say, I observe my face...	克：什么？问：即便你说，我观察我的面容
51:58	K: No. Not my face, your face, X's face. That's a façon de parler.	克：不。不是我的面容，而是你的面容，某人的面容。那只是一种表达方式。
52:06	Q: Even if you say, a face.	问：即便你说，一副面容。
52:11	K: All right, I want to look at you. I know you are American, by your speech, or an Italian. And I don't like Americans, suppose – please don't go off – and I say, 'Oh, he is an American' and turn my head away. But my interest is to look, whether you call yourself an American, your language is American, whether you are vulgar, stupid, I want to look, I want to see what you are.	克：好吧，我想要观察你。我了解到你是美国人，通过你的谈话，或是一个意大利人。然而我不喜欢美国人，假设说 ——请不要走偏—— 然后我说，“喔，他是个美国人”之后就把头转向一边。可是，我的兴趣是观察，无论你是否自称为一个美国人，你的语言是否是美式英语，你是否很粗鲁、愚蠢，我想要观察，我想要观察你实际的样子。
52:55	Q: Could you compare that to a photo? It's like taking a snapshot.	问：你能把那比作拍照吗？就好像在抓拍。
53:02	K: Yes, take a snapshot and you look at it. But wait a minute. Can you do the same about yourself? That is what I am coming to. You refuse to move from... I want to go into this. This is tremendously important. As a human being, I say, I want to look at myself, before I say, who am I, what am I, condemn, judge, evaluate, this is good. I just want to look.	克：是的，抓拍然后你观察它。可是等一等。你能对自己做同样的事吗？那是我要讨论的。你拒绝就此前行我想要深入探讨这点，这非常重要。作为一个人，我说，我想要观察我自己——在我问我是谁、我是什么之前，在谴责、评判、评估、说这是好的之前。我只想要观察。
53:37	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
53:55	K: You are all making it so complex. It will become tremendously complex a little later, don't begin with complexity. My body, my mind, just look at yourself. For God's sake.	克：你们都在把这变得如此复杂。不久之后，这个问题会变得极其复杂，所以一开始不要把它弄复杂。我的身体、我的心灵，就只是观察你自己。看在老天的份儿上。
54:27	Q: (French) What do you mean by 'the house is burning'?	问：（法语）你说 “房子着火了”是什么意思？
55:08	K: You have understood his question? You say, what do you mean, the first question, – oh my God, we are talking about awareness, you follow? – I'll repeat his question. He says, what do you mean 'the house is burning'? Don't you know the house is burning? Your house, the world is your house, the earth is your house. The earth is being destroyed, the rivers are being polluted, the air is becoming impossible to breathe with so many cars, etc. Some fishes are being destroyed completely, the whales are disappearing, there are wars preparing, whether it is in Egypt or Israel, it doesn't matter, it is part of your house. Are you aware of this, that it is your house? Not Israel and Egypt. Are you aware of it, sensitive to it? Or you say, poor chaps, it is their affair. If you are not aware of it, why are you not aware of it? The house is burning, you understand? You don't seem to realise what the world is going through.	克：你理解他的问题了吗？你问，那是什么意思，这是第一个问题， ——噢，我的天，我们正在谈论觉知，你明白吗？—— 我会重复他的问题。他问道，你说“房子着火了”是什么意思？你不知道房子着火了吗？你的房子，世界就是你的房子，地球就是你的房子。大地正在被破坏，河流正在被污染，空气正在变得无法呼吸，因为有如此多的车辆，等等。一些鱼类正遭受着彻底的毁灭，鲸鱼正在消失，无论是埃及还是以色列，都在备战，（在哪里）无关紧要，而这是你房子的一部分。你觉知到这是你的房子了吗？而非以色列或者埃及。你觉察到、感知到这点了吗？还是你认为，可怜的家伙们，那是他们自己的事情。如果你没有觉知到这点，那么为什么没有觉知到呢？房子着火了，你明白吗？你似乎并没意识到世界正在经受着什么。
56:59	And the second question is...	然后，第二个问题是
57:04	Q: (French)	问：（法语）
57:17	K: Bien. Must there be complete transformation – listen to the question – must there be complete transformation, psychologically, all that we have talked about, before you put out the fire? You understand the question? I see the fire in the world, and the fire inside myself: the misery, the confusion, the idiocy, the pettiness, my arrogance, etc. Until – the questioner says – until I radically transform myself it is not possible to put the fire out.	克：好的。我们是不是必须要有彻底的转变？ ——请好好听听这个问题—— 是不是必须有彻底的转变 ——心理上的转变，我们已经讨论过这个—— 在你灭火之前？你们理解问题吗？我看见了世界上的火灾，以及我自己内心的火灾：苦难、困惑、愚昧、偏狭、我的傲慢，等等。直到——提问者提出在我从根本上转变自己之前，是不可能去救火的。
58:07	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
58:17	K: Listen to the question first, find out what is implied in it: that I cannot do anything till I become perfect. And the house is burning in the meantime. And the house is me. I am being burnt, so I'll wait till I become perfect. This is the question that is asked not only by that gentleman but by everybody. Which is, can I teach, can I start a school, can I do anything till I have completely transformed? You see the absurdity of the question, need I explain it? I am not being rude to you, but need that question be answered? Do you mean to say you wait till you become transformed, or you see the importance of putting an end to the fire, and that very essential urge to put out the fire is transforming you. You understand?	克：请先听问题，找出蕴含于问题中的一切：在我变得完美前，我无法做任何事。而与此同时，房子正在燃烧着。并且，这房子就是我。我正在被灼烧，所以我要等到我变得完美。这是被问到的问题，不只是那位先生问，而是每一个人都在问。也就是，我能教学吗？我能创办一所学校吗？在我彻底转变之前，我能做些什么吗？你们认识到这个问题的荒诞了吗？需要我解释它吗？我不是对你们无礼，可是这问题需要回答吗？你的意思是你要等到你转变了，还是，你看到了灭火的重要性，而正是灭火的迫切性在转变着你。你理解了吗？
59:55	Now, please let's stick to one thing. Quelle heure est-il?	现在，让我们紧扣一件事情讨论。现在是几点？
59:59	Q: Le undici e trenta.	问：十一点三十。
1:00:02	K: Le undici e trenta, grazie. Let's go into this a little bit, may I? I want to look at myself. I know I am so conditioned that I cannot look at myself properly. So I put that question – wanting to look at myself completely – I leave that. I then go and tackle or investigate, why am I conditioned, why do I accept it? And not just say, well, I am conditioned, yes. I am conditioned, I know. Why do I accept it? Do you accept it because it is the easiest way of living? Bene. Dopo cinquanta anni. Wait a minute, I want to observe and I see I cannot observe because I am conditioned, and I have never questioned because I am afraid I might not be comfortable. So I say, I want to be comfortable, is that it? That's why I can't look. So why do I want comfort? Where am I to find it? I want it. But where am I to find it? So I find it in my companion – I think I find it – in my wife, with my girl, with a belief. So don't disturb all that, because my wife, so far I have found comfort in her, safe. But one day something is going to crack, so I am frightened. So, you follow how far I have moved away? I want to observe and I find I am really afraid to observe. Right? Are you following this? So I am going to understand, find out why am I afraid. What am I afraid about? Losing my comfort, losing my security, losing my conditioning? It is this conditioning that is creating the misery in the world. So the house is burning, I want to put out that fire, but I don't want to because I am frightened.	克：十一点三十，谢谢。让我们深入探讨这一点，好吗？我想要观察我自己。我知道，我深受制约，所以我无法正确地观察自己。因此，我放下那个问题 ——想要完整地观察我自己——我暂且抛开这个问题。然后，我开始处理或是探究为什么我身受束缚？为什么我接受这种束缚？而不只是说，好吧，我深受局限，没错。我知道我深受局限。为什么我接受这种局限？你们接受它是否是因为这是最方便的生存方式？好吧。五十年过后。等一等，我想要观察然而，我发现我无法观察，因为我深受局限，并且我也从未质疑过，因为，我害怕我可能会不舒服。因此我说，我想要舒适的状态，是这样吗？那就是为什么我无法观察。那么，为什么我想要舒适呢？我要在哪里找到它？我想得到它。可是我要在哪里找到它呢？于是，我在我的同伴那儿寻找它 ——我认为我找到了它—— 在我的妻子、我的女朋友那儿，在个某信仰之中找到了它。所以不要打扰这一切，因为目前来看，我在妻子那里找到了舒适、安全。可是总会有一天，有些事物会瓦解，因此，我很恐惧。你们跟上我了吗？我想要观察，可我发现我是非常惧怕观察的。对吗？你们跟上了吗？因此，我要去了解，去找出我惧怕的原因。我在惧怕什么？失去我的舒适状态？失去我的安全感？失去我的局限？正是这局限制造着这世上的苦难。那么，房子着火了，我想去救火，可是，我又不想去因为我很怕。
1:03:13	Are you doing this? So in other words, you want to remain mediocre which means – I am not condemning you, I am just pointing out – mediocrity means climbing half way up the hill, excellence means going right to the top of it.	你是这样的吗？那么，换句话说，你想要保持平庸，也就是说 ——我不是在谴责你，我只是在指出这一点—— 平庸意味着，只攀爬到半山腰，而卓越意味着直接攀登到山顶。
1:03:45	So most of us would rather remain in our stagnant pools of little conditioning, and knowing that very conditioning is destroying the world.	然而，我们大多数人宁愿呆在那狭小的制约的一潭死水中，尽管我们知道，正是那份制约在摧毁着世界。
1:04:02	So, look how far I have gone into it. I want to look and I find I am conditioned, I question why I am conditioned because in questioning why I am conditioned I find I want comfort, I want the easiest way. The easiest way is to accept.	那么，看看我已经深入到多远了。我想要观察，可是我发现我身受制约，我质问我受制约的原因，因为在质问我为什么身受制约的过程中，我发现，我渴望舒适的状态，我渴望最简易的方式。接受便是最简易的方式。
1:04:24	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
1:04:32	K: Though there is contradiction, I accept it. There is contradiction. So I would rather let things alone. Right? Is that what you are all doing? Please investigate, I am not saying you are doing it.	克：尽管存在矛盾，可我仍旧接受它。存在着矛盾。因此，我宁愿放任那些事物。对吗？那是你们都在做的事吗？请去探究，我并没有说你们正在这么做。
1:04:59	Q: When we all start talking about this, seeing myself, we are taking up one part and going through different things. We see one part connected with the other parts. Now, this is a very slow process, we have to talk about it and verbalise it. And by that, we are bringing some things up to our surface consciousness. Now, I have understood your message, that there is a different way of seeing yourself. Like you said about the mirror, you look at yourself in the mirror, you see the face. But getting a total view of your own consciousness in the same way as you would get a clear picture of your face, how do you do that?	问：当我们都开始讨论这个问题——也就是，观察我自己，我们取了某一部分来谈，然后检视了别的部分。我们看到这一部分是与其他部分相连的。因此，这是一个非常缓慢的过程，我们必须讨论它，并且用语言来表述它。通过这样，我们正在把某些事物带到我们的意识表层上。现在，我了解了你的启示，也就是，有另一种方式去观察我们自身。比如你曾谈及的镜子，你在镜中观察你自己，你看自己的脸。而要用同样的方式去全观我们自身的意识，就像你在镜中清晰地看到自己的脸一样，你又如何才能做到呢？
1:05:56	K: How do you look at your own consciousness, is that it?	克：你要如何观察你自己的意识，是这个意思吗？
1:06:01	Q: In the same way as you look at your face.	问：用你观察自身面容时同样的方式。
1:06:05	K: Yes. How do you look at your own consciousness, the questioner asks, as you look at your own face. You are a rummy crowd.	克：好的。你如何观察你自己的意识，提问者问，就像你观察你自己的面容那般。你们真是群古怪的人。
1:06:37	Q: If one is in conflict, or is experiencing any sort of emotion, fear, sorrow, depression – and I think if one stops for a moment, because the feeling is there, it's real, it's physically hurting or mentally hurting – and one says, 'What exactly am I thinking about at this moment?' It is always something in the past that one can never redo or change, or it's something in the future that has not arrived yet. And that in itself I think puts one back in balance in the present.	问：如果我们处在冲突中，或是正在经历任何一种情绪，恐惧、悲伤、沮丧时 ——那么我认为我们该停一停，因为这感觉就在那儿，它很真实，无论是生理上的伤害还是精神上的伤害—— 于是我们问，“在这一刻，我究竟在思考些什么呢？” 思考的总是过去的事物，是我们永远无法重做或改变的事，或者，是未来尚未到来的事。而我认为这份询问，会让我们在当下回归平衡。
1:07:29	K: Look, at the end of an hour and ten minutes – three trains have passed – at the end of an hour and ten minutes or more, that question has not been answered. The gentleman says, please tell me, I am really anxious to find out how to be totally aware. That has not been answered. And he will go away and say, my God, when will that question be answered? Because you really don't want to find out, do you, what it means to be totally aware?	克：瞧，在一小时十分钟的末尾 ——三辆火车已经开过—— 在一小时十分钟或者更久些的末尾，那个问题还没有解决。那位先生问道，请告诉我，我真的很想知道，如何才能变得全然觉知？这个问题还没有得到解答。而他会在离开时说，我的天，这问题要什么时候才能得到解答啊？因为，其实你并不真的想要查明真相，不是吗？到底全然地觉知意味着什么？
1:08:33	To be totally aware implies a choiceless observation of the content of your consciousness. The content is the society, the wars, the misery, the confusion, the repetitive pleasurable actions and so on, the content is there, can you observe it? Can you observe that you are afraid, not how to change it, not how to run away from it, or transform it, just to observe that fear? And to know, to be aware that you are pursuing pleasure, pleasure of possessing money, pleasure sexually, pleasure of a position, different forms of pleasure, are you aware of it? Now wait a minute, 'are you aware' means are you aware fragment by fragment? Are you aware of the many parts of the content of consciousness, or are you aware instantly of the whole? The whole is more than the parts. But if you say I am going to look at each part, there will never be perception of the whole which is much more. So which is it that you are doing actually? Examining the parts? Fear, jealousy, anxiety, sorrow, the house is burning, I am leftist, centrist, or extreme right, or extreme left politically, are you aware of the fragments, or you are aware of the totality of consciousness.	全然地觉知意味着无拣择的觉察你自己意识的内容。意识的内容就是社会，是战争、苦难、困惑、反复的取乐行为，以及其他等等，内容就在那儿，你能观察它吗？你是否能观察你的恐惧，不是如何去改变它，不是如何去逃离它，或是转变它，而只是去观察那份恐惧？然后去知晓，去觉察你在追求快感，拥有金钱的快感，性快感，一个地位带来的快感，不同形式的快感，你觉知到它了吗？现在，等一等，“你是否觉知到”是不是指你是碎片式地觉知到了？你是觉知到了意识内容中的许多个部分，还是，你是即刻觉知到了整体？整体不止于各个部分。而如果你说我要去观察每一个部分，那么，你将永远无法洞察到内容要多得多的整体。那么，哪一个是你实际在做的？探究各个部分？恐惧、嫉妒、焦虑、悲伤，房子正在着火，就政治而言，我是左翼，中间派，或是极端右翼，又或是极端左翼，你觉知到这些碎片了吗？还是，你觉知到了意识的全部。
1:11:05	Q: (French)	问：（法语）
1:11:16	K: I know it, but find out if you are observing the parts, and why you are observing the parts? Because you are conditioned. I look at my life as a Frenchman, as a Dutchman, or whatever it is. That is my tradition, I have been brought up in Holland and I have said, I am a Dutchman, and that is my conditioning, therefore I will always look fragmentarily. Just be aware of that, not how to go beyond it. The moment you become aware of it you are already out of it.	克：我明白，可是你自己要去查明你是否在观察各个部分，以及为什么你在观察各个部分？因为你深受制约。我观察我的生活，作为一个法国人、一个荷兰人的生活，或者别的什么国家。那是我的传统，我在荷兰被抚养长大，而我一直声称我是一个荷兰人，那就是我的制约，由此，我就会一直四分五裂地观察。就只是去觉知这点，而非如何超越它。在你觉知到这点的那一刻，你就已经摆脱了制约。
1:12:09	So consciousness with its fragments, each one of us is aware of the fragments. You understand? The spokes – the wheel is greater than the spokes. Right? You understand that? Oh my God. The parts – the whole is greater than the parts. That's all. But if I am conditioned, holding on to my part, I will never see the whole. If I say, I have been born in India, I am a Brahmin, I am the tradition, etc., which is a part, and I hold on, so I will fight for the part. Which is simple, that is what you are doing, America – Russia. Whereas, if you see the whole of it then the parts disappear. Do it, please do it.	因此，意识及其各个碎片，我们每个人都觉知到了碎片。你明白吗？轮辐—— 轮子比轮辐重要。对吗？你理解这点吗？噢，我的天。局部—— 整体要比局部重要。就是这样。可是，如果我深受制约，紧紧抓住自己的局部，那么我将永远无法看到整体。如果我说，我出生于印度，我是一个婆罗门，我就是传统，等等，那就是一个碎片，我紧紧抓住它，因此，我将会为那个碎片而战。这很简单，那正是你们在做的事情，美国——苏联。但是，如果你看到了它的整体，那么，这些碎片便会消失。去这样做吧，请这样做吧。
1:13:35	Q: How do you get the total you?	问：你要如何看到完整的自己？
1:13:41	K: I am showing it to you.	克：我在展现给你看。
1:13:42	Q: No, you're not really showing it, we are talking about it.	问：不，你并没有在真的展现它，我们只是在讨论它。
1:13:47	K: No. All right, I have got your question. Wait, I will show it to you.	克：不。好的，我已经理解你的问题了。等一等，我会把它展现给你的。
1:14:02	Q: Seeing things totally, it cannot be the result of talking yourself to it. So, on a different level, and I'm asking a very simple question: how do you get the total you? On a different level than talking about it.	问：全面地观察事物，这不可能是自说自话的结果。那么，从另一个层次上，我在问一个非常简单的问题： “你如何能看到完整的自己？” 从一个不同的层次上，而不是讨论它。
1:14:28	K: If you will kindly listen, sir, I am pointing out something. First I say – please listen – first I say the word is not the thing.	克：如果你愿意倾听的话，先生，我正在指明一些东西。首先我认为——请好好听—— 首先我认为文字并不是事物本身。
1:14:43	Q: That's right. K: Right?	问：是那样的。克：对吗？
1:14:47	K: So what I have described is not the actual, the truth.	克：那么，我所描述的并不是事实本身，并不是真相。
1:14:55	Q: No.	问：不是。
1:15:01	K: So can you, when you are listening, not be caught in words but see the thing that is being described? But that becomes difficult because we have lived in a world of words. So I have been saying from the beginning of every talk, the word is not the thing. The word mountain is not the mountain. I may describe the mountain most eloquently, beautifully, or paint it, but the paint, the picture, the word, the description is not the thing. Therefore consciousness is the word, the content is the word and awareness is the word, so go beyond the word, which is to see your own consciousness, its content, etc. So, if you are merely caught by the description then you will fight with me for ever.	克：那么，当你在聆听时，你能否不要受困于文字，而是去看正在被描述的事物？然而，那是困难的，因为我们生存在一个文字世界里。所以，每次谈话一开始，我便一直在说文字并不是事物本身。 “山”这个字眼并不是山川本身。我或许会十分逼真地、动人地描述山川，又或者画下它，可是图画、照片、文字、描述，都并非事物本身。因此，意识是文字，内容是文字，还有觉知也是文字，因此，超越文字就是去观察你自身的意识，它的内容，等等。因此，如果你仅仅受困于描述之中，那么，你永远都会和我争论。
1:16:38	Q: (Inaudible)	问：（听不清）
1:17:03	K: No, madame.	克：不，女士。
1:17:08	Look, we human beings are used to being told what to do. We want to be awakened to all this. We want to see all of this and go beyond it. And who is going to do it for you? If I see – please listen – if I see that I have to be a light to myself and that I cannot light this light from another, or through another, then I have to look at myself. Look. Look at the content of myself. But I cannot look at the whole as a whole because I am trained to look partially. So my concern then is, why do I look partially? I look partially because of my education, my tradition, my environment, the society, my wife, my father, they have all been looking at themselves partially. So I refuse to look, I refuse to look how they have told me to look. I say, I don't know, they may be totally wrong, probably they are, so I want to look for the first time, to look. When you look there is no difference between the observer and the observed, there is only the state of looking.	请看，我们人类习惯于别人来告诉我们做什么。我们想要清醒地去面对这一切。我们想要观察这一切并且超越它。那么，谁将会为你这么做呢？如果我认识到——请听好—— 如果我认识到，我必须成为自己的那盏灯，并且我不能从别人那儿点亮这盏灯，也不能通过别人的帮忙，那么，我就不得不观察我自己。去看。观察我自身的内容。可是，我无法把整体作为一个整体来观察，因为，我被训练去局部地观察。那么我关心的便是，为什么我会局部地观察？我会局部地观察是因为，我的教育、我的传统、我的环境、社会、我的妻子、我的父亲，他们一直都在局部地观察他们自己。因此，我拒绝观察，我拒绝用他们告诉我的方式去观察。我说，我不知道，他们可能是完全错误的，他们可能是，所以，头一回，我想要去观察，去看。当你观察时，观察者和被观察者是没有区别的，只有观察这个状态存在。
1:19:32	Q: Krishnamurti, one question, please. Do I look partially because of my education and my conditioning, or because of all the things that I have done wrong in this present life of mine, and I know it? Like for instance, if I am buying something for five francs and I am selling it for twenty five francs to somebody who needs it. Another luxury or maybe a food substance. When I do immoral things and I know it. It is not at this point that I like to make any kind of excuse for myself, my ego can make an excuse for anything, but I do not want to see the real me which is ugly, hideous.	问：克里希那穆提，我想请问一个问题。我局部的观察是源于我的教育以及我所受的制约？还是源于我这一生所做的一切错事，并且我对这些错事也是心知肚明的？例如说，如果我用五法郎买了样东西，然后我二十五法郎把它卖给需要它的人。一件奢侈品或是一种食品。当我做不道德的事时，我心里一清二楚。在这一点上，我不想为自己找任何借口，我的自我会为任何事编造借口，而我不想看见真实的我，它丑陋、阴险。
1:20:23	K: Quite right. When you say hideous, ugly, you are already condemning it. For God's sake, do look how we are caught in words. When you love somebody – I mean love, ordinary, not something extraordinary – for the moment you forget everything, don't you? You may want to hold her hand or want to sleep with her, or have her as your companion. In that moment, there is no problem. We have made all this so terribly intellectual, verbal.	克：说的没错。当你说阴险、丑陋时，你已经在谴责它了。看在上天的份上，务必观察我们是如何受困于文字的。当你爱某人时 ——我指的是平常的那种爱，并非某种非凡的事物—— 在那一刻，你忘记了一切，不是吗？你可能想要牵着她的手或是想要与她同眠，又或是让她作为你的伴侣。在那一刻，是没有任何问题的。我们已经把这一切变得太过头脑化、口头化了。
1:21:28	We'll continue, if we may, tomorrow morning.	明天早上，如果可以的话，我们将会继续探讨。