克里希那穆提 - 同情心能在欲望的领域中盛放吗？

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA77T4 - 同情心能在欲望的领域中盛放吗？
公开讲座 4
萨能, 瑞士
1977年 7月 17日

0:22	Krishnamurti: If we may, we'll go on with what we were talking about the other day we met here. Some of you may not have been here and so I'll go over it very briefly. First of all, I would like to point out that we are a gathering of serious people – at least I hope so. Not a gathering for intellectuals, or romantics, or sentimentalists because we are dealing with facts, the facts of daily life, the way of living. And, if one is not at all serious, one doesn't see the point of coming here, taking all the trouble and sitting down here for an hour. And I hope that all of us who are here are really quite serious, because we are concerned with our daily living, which are daily facts. Most of us make those facts into an abstraction, to abstract, from the fact, an idea, a conclusion, and become prisoners to those ideas and conclusions. We may ventilate those prisons but still we live, most of us, because we make abstractions of facts, in prison. Please, therefore, be good enough to understand that we are not dealing with ideas, some exotic philosophy, or dealing with abstractive conclusions. We are here, if I may again point out, as I've been doing for the last three or four gatherings here, that we are sharing this thing together. We are going into problems that require a great deal of care, a great deal of attention. One must be very, very serious because the house is burning. I do not know if you are aware of all this. There is the Communist world pressing all the time, make us believe in certain ideologies and if we don't, we are either sent to a concentration camp or mental hospitals, and so on. That is gradually closing in. One may not be aware of it now, but if you are aware of the world situation, what is happening in the world economically, socially, politically, and in preparation for wars, one has to become terribly serious. It isn't a thing you play around with, one has to act.	克里希那穆提：如果可以的话，我们将继续前几天在这里探讨的话题。你们中的一些人可能之前不在这里，因此，我会非常简洁地回顾一下之前的内容。首先，我要指出，这是一次严肃的聚会 ——至少我是这么希望的。而非一场知识分子们的集会，或是浪漫主义者、感伤主义者的集会。因为我们是在着眼于事实，日常生活的事实，生活方式的事实。然而，如果有人根本就不认真，那么我觉得来这里并没有什么意义，不辞辛劳地来到这里，然后在这里坐上一个小时。我希望我们所有在这里的人都真的很认真，因为我们关心的是我们的日常生活，是我们每天生活的事实。我们大多数人将那些事实变成了一种抽象的概念，从事实中抽离出一个概念、一个结论，然后成为了那些概念和结论的囚犯。我们可能会给那些监狱通通风，然而我们大多数人仍旧生活在监狱中，因为我们在监狱里将这些事实抽象化了。因此，拜托，恳请大家理解我们不是在与概念、与某种来自异国的哲学或者与抽象的结论打交道。我们在这里——恕我再一次指出—— 正如我在过去的三四场聚会中所做的，我们是在一同分享这件事。我们将探究一些问题，这些问题需要我们大量的关切，大量的注意力。我们必须非常非常认真，因为房子已经起火了。我不知道你是否意识到了这一切。共产主义世界一直都在施压，使我们信仰某些特定的意识形态，如果我们拒绝，我们要么被送到一个集中营里，要么就是精神病院，诸如此类。这些事情正在逐渐地迫近。现在我们也许还没有意识到这一点，可是，如果你意识到了世界的处境，意识到了这个世界正在发生的事情 ——不管是经济上、社会上还是政治上，以及那些为战争所做的准备 ——那么我们就必须变得无比认真。这并不是一件你随便玩玩的事情，你必须要行动起来。
5:06	And as we were saying, action based on skill, which we discussed last Thursday, action based on skill must inevitably lead to separative, fragmentary action. Please follow it. I'll go into it again as we did last Thursday. Because our education, our environment, sociological demands, urge everyone to develop a particular skill. That skill brings about not only a sense of power, position, but also such action born of that skill is very limiting, emphasises the importance of oneself. One builds the structure of oneself, the I, the ego. And without clarity, skill becomes destructive. Clarity, we mean by that, the clarity that comes when there is the art of listening, the art of seeing, the art of learning. And we mean by that word art, to put everything in its right place, where it belongs. Then out of that action, which is to give everything its proper place, out of that comes clarity.	如我们之前所说的，基于技能的行动 ——我们上周四讨论过这个—— 基于技能的行动会不可避免地导致分离和支离破碎的行为。请跟上这个。我会像我们上周四所做的那样再一次探讨它。因为我们的教育、我们的环境、社会的需求迫使每个人都培养一种特定的技能。那种技能不仅仅带来了力量感和地位感，同时，这种源自于技能的行动是非常局限的，它强调了自我的重要性。人建立了自我的结构，那个我，自我。而没有内心的清明，技能就会变得具有毁灭性。我们所说的清明，来源于倾听的艺术、观察的艺术和学习的艺术。而我们所谓的艺术，是将每件事物搁置在它正确的位置上，它所属的地方。然后出于那种行动 ——也就是将每一样事物搁置于恰当的位置，从这种行动中就会产生清明。
7:34	Clarity is not born of logic, reason, or objective thinking. But clarity one must have, to act clearly, wholly, completely. One must understand the meaning of listening, the meaning of seeing and the art of learning. We said the art of listening means that you listen not to your own prejudices, not to your own conclusions, to your own experiences, with which you are quite familiar. And with those prejudices, conditions, you listen, then you don't listen at all. Then you are merely judging what is being said with what you already know, therefore there is no actual communication or clarity.	清明并非来自于逻辑、推理或者客观的思考。然而，我们必须要有清明才能清楚地、完整地、彻底地去行动。人必须理解倾听的意义、观察的意义以及学习的艺术。我们说过，倾听的艺术意味着，你不是在听你自己的偏见、你自己的结论、你自己的经历，那些你十分熟悉的东西。如果你听的都是那些偏见、局限，那么，你根本就没有在听。你只是在用你已知的事物来评判我所说的话，因而并不存在实际的交流或是清明。
8:54	And the art of seeing, to look without any direction, without any motive, to look at the world, to look at what is happening around you, politically, religiously, and all the things that the gurus unfortunately are bringing over to Europe, to see all that, clearly, without any personal demand, without any personal prejudice or want. That again needs a great deal of attention, one has to have.	而观察的艺术，是不设方向、不带任何动机地看，观察这个世界，观察你周围正在发生些什么 ——政治上、宗教上—— 以及那些宗教领袖不幸给欧洲带来的所有那些东西，去清楚地看到那一切，没有任何个人的需求，没有任何个人的偏见或欲求。而这同样需要巨大的关注，我们必须要有这种关注。
9:44	And also to learn. And I think this is very important to understand. To learn implies, as most of us know, knowledge, facts, information, and that information, knowledge, experience, is stored in the brain and according to that knowledge you act skilfully, or not skilfully. But when thought – which is the result of accumulated knowledge, experience and memory, and therefore reaction to that memory, which is thought - when thought spills over, as it were, into the psychological field then it creates havoc, which we talked about sufficiently the other day. So if you don't mind we will not go into that again, because we have a lot of things to talk about still.	同时，我们也要去学习。我认为了解这一点是非常重要的。学习意味着，正如我们大多数人所知的，它意味着知识、事实、信息，而那些信息、知识、经历都被存储在大脑里，然后依照那些知识，你会熟练地或者不熟练地去行动。可是，当思想 ——也就是知识、经历以及记忆积累的结果，进而对那种记忆产生反应，这就是思想—— 当思想扩散——可以这么说—— 当它扩散到心理领域时，就会制造极大的混乱，这是我们那天已经充分讨论过的。因此，如果你们不介意的话，我们就不再讨论那个了，因为我们还有很多东西要讨论。
11:12	The art of listening, the art of seeing what is happening around you, what is happening inside you, what is taking place in your relationship with another, man, woman, to see it very clearly. Then the art of learning brings about an extraordinary quality of clarity. If you have done it, as you are sitting there, if you do it actually, not theoretically, follow it step by step and do it, then you will have an extraordinary clarity from which action takes place. And in that clarity, there comes naturally the skill. But what we are doing now is to develop skill without clarity and therefore whatever we do in the world, in our daily lives, leads to constant conflict, misery, confusion. That again is very obvious. And we were saying that without compassion, clarity in itself has very little meaning.	倾听的艺术，观察的艺术，看到你周围正发生着些什么，你的内心正发生着些什么，你和另一个人——男人或女人的关系中正在发生些什么，非常清楚地看到它。然后学习的艺术会带来一种非凡的清明品质。如果你坐在这里时就已经这样做了，如果你真的这么做了，不是从理论上，而是一步一步地跟随它，然后去做的话，你就会拥有一种非凡的清明，行动就会从这种清明中产生。而在那种清明中就自然会产生技能。然而我们现在做的却是还没有清明就去发展技能，因此，无论我们在这世上做什么，在我们的日常生活里做什么，都会导致持续不断的冲突、不幸、困惑。这同样是显而易见的。而我们也说了，没有慈悲，清明本身便没有多大意义。
12:47	So we are going to go into this question this morning of what is the meaning and the significance of compassion. Before we go into that it becomes important to understand that we are dealing with daily life and nothing else, because that is the basis of all relationship and therefore all life.	因此，我们今天早晨就来探究这个问题，即慈悲的含义和意义是什么？在我们探讨这个问题之前，重要的是明白我们是在处理日常生活，而不是其他什么东西，因为日常生活是所有关系的基础，因此也是所有生活的基础。
13:36	Most of us are mediocre. The word mediocre means, the root meaning of that word, is to go half way up the hill. We all do that, we just go half way up, and that is mediocrity. Excellence means going to the very top of it. So we are asking for excellence, not mediocrity, mediocre action. Is that clear? To go all the way, not go half way, otherwise we are going to be smothered, destroyed as human beings by the politicians, by the ideologists, whether they are Communists, Socialists and so on, or Eurocommunists. So we are demanding of ourselves the highest form of excellence. And that excellence can only come into being when there is compassion, clarity, and from this compassion and clarity comes skill – not the other way around. And that's what we are trying to do, to develop skill and have clarity and then compassion. We are saying quite the contrary.	我们大多数人都是平庸的。 “平庸”这个词意味着，这个词的词根意思是 “半途而废”。我们都是这样的，做事做一半，这就是平庸。卓越意味着“到达顶峰”。所以我们要求的是“卓越”，而不是平庸，平庸的行动。清楚了吗？要“有始有终”，不要“半途而废”，否则我们作为人类将会被窒息和毁灭，被那些政治家、理想家 ——共产主义者、社会主义者或是欧洲共产主义者。因此我们要求自己达到最高形式的卓越。而要产生这份卓越，只有当有了慈悲、清明时才可以，从这份慈悲与清明之中就会产生技能 ——而不是反过来。可那正是我们试图在做的：去发展技能，然后再有清明与慈悲。我们说的是完全相反的过程。
15:44	So we are going into this question of what is compassion. What is the structure and the nature of this extraordinary quality, which if the human mind doesn't have, it is going to destroy the world, and therefore destroy human beings. We also said in our talks that each human being, you as a human being are the representative of the whole of humanity. Which is not an idea or an abstraction, but an actual daily fact. That is, wherever you go, India, Asia, America or Europe, or even Russia and China, human beings are going through anxiety, fear, uncertainty, great sense of loneliness, insecurity, they are caught in the stream of sorrow. This is a fact right through the world. So every human being, that is you who are here in this gathering, and outside, are actually the entire essence of all humanity. That is a fact, you must not only realise it intellectually but realise this fact not only intellectually but with all your being, in your blood, in your guts, which is an absolute fact. So it becomes very important for each human being to realise this, that he is responsible. When you feel utterly responsible then you care, then you care what kind of education your children have, what kind of literature, everything you care.	因此，我们将探讨什么是慈悲这个问题。这种非凡品质的结构和本质是什么，如果人类的心灵不具备这种品质，它便会摧毁这个世界，从而摧毁人类自己。在谈话中我们也说了：每一个人，你作为人类的一员，代表了整个人类。这并不是一个想法，或是一种抽象概念，而是一种实际的、日常生活中的事实。也就是说，无论你去哪里，印度、亚洲、美国或是欧洲，甚至是俄国或中国，人类都在经历着焦虑、恐惧、不确定、极大的孤独感和不安全感，他们都陷在悲伤的河流中。这是一个遍及全世界的事实。所以每一个人，也就是你们来这里参加集会的人，也包括外面的人，实际上就是全人类的统一体。这是一个事实，你不仅要在智力上明白，而且不能只是从道理上意识到这个事实，而且要全身心地明白，深入血液、深入肺腑地明白，明白这是一个绝对的事实。因此，对每个人来说最重要的就是要意识到他是负有责任的。当你有了十足的责任感时，你就会去关心，你就会关心你的孩子所接受的是怎样的教育，他在读的是怎样的书，你会关心很多东西。
18:35	So we are going to go into this question of compassion. As we said we are examining the thing together. We are reasoning over it together. We are exercising our highest excellent logic. But reason, clear, objective thinking, and excellent logic does not bring about compassion. But we must exercise the qualities that we have, which is reason, careful observation, and from that, excellency of clear sight. We are taking the journey together and please, see the importance of this. If you merely listen and accept or reject then we are not communicating with each other. The speaker wants to discuss it over with you, go into it, because he feels it's tremendously urgent, this matter. As we are sharing together this question: 'what is the implication of compassion' then it becomes your responsibility to think clearly, not with your personal prejudices, not with your particular form of experience, or certain conclusions that you have derived through experience or by learning, reading and so on. Then those conclusions, experience will prevent you from sharing together with another. I think that's very clear.	因此，我们会探究慈悲这个问题。正如我们所说，我们是一起在审视这件事。我们在一起推论。我们正在运用我们最卓越的逻辑。然而推论、清晰和客观的思考，以及卓越的逻辑并不能带来慈悲。但我们必须运用我们所拥有的品质，也就是理性、细心的观察，由此便会有那种卓越的清晰洞见。我们正一同走在路上，请看到这点的重要性。如果你只是听听，然后接受或拒绝，那么我们就没有在彼此交流。讲话者想要和你一起讨论它、深入它，因为他感到这件事情是极为紧迫的。因为我们正在共同分担这个问题： “慈悲的含义是什么？” 那么你就会感到有责任去清晰地思考，不带着个人的偏见，不带着你自己特定的经验，或者某些你从经验中或者通过学习、阅读等等而得出的结论。否则那些结论、经历将会阻碍你去和他人一同分担这个问题。我认为这点是非常清楚的。
21:23	So we are going together to explore, to investigate, not intellectually but factually, in our daily life, whatever that life be: ugly, sometimes happy, sometimes very depressing and so on, whatever it is we are going to go together and examine all this. So please, give your care, your attention, be serious, for God's sake, for your own sake. The future is what you make of it today. If you are negligent, if you are merely superficially living, then you are creating a world for the future which will be most destructive. I do not know if you know what is happening in the world, how the technology has so far advanced, military and all the rest of the horror that is going on, and if you realise it you have got to do something. So let's proceed to find out – not from the speaker because I am not your guru, we are not asking for anyone to follow because the follower destroys truth. There is no guru, there is no follower, there is no authority here, of any kind. So we are together as two human beings, deeply concerned, not only with our lives but the lives of humanity, to bring about a radical psychological transformation in our consciousness. Content makes consciousness – content: what it is – what is inside that consciousness makes consciousness. Sorry if I am rather emphatic about all this. I am not being dogmatic. If you look at it, go into it, you will find it out for yourself.	因此我们将一起去探索、去调查，不是从智力上，而是实实在在地在我们的日常生活中去探索和调查，无论我们过的是什么样的生活 ——丑陋，有时候快乐，有时候却沮丧万分，等等，无论它是什么样的，我们都将一同深入探索这一切。因此请付出你的关心、你的注意力，看在上帝的份上，看在你自己的份上，请认真一点。未来就是你今天的样子。如果你漫不经心，如果你只是在肤浅地活着，那么你所创造出来的未来的世界将会是极具毁灭性的。我不知道你是否知道这个世界正在发生着什么，科学技术已经先进到了怎样的程度，还有军事，等等这些正在发生着的可怕之事，如果你意识到这些，你必然要做些什么。所以让我们继续来探究 ——不是根据讲话者的观点，因为我不是你的宗教领袖，我们不是在叫任何人去追随，因为追随者会毁掉真理。没有宗教领袖，也没有追随者，在这里没有任何的权威存在。因此，我们两个是作为人类的成员，来共同深切地关心这件事，不仅仅关切我们的生活，也关切全人类的生活，从而为我们的意识带来一场心理上的彻底转变。意识的内容构成了意识，那些内容就是你的“实际现状”，意识中的事物构成了意识。请原谅我这么强调这一点。并非是我固执武断。如果你观察它、探究它，你自己也能够发现。
24:33	So we are concerned with the transformation of the content of our human consciousness. The human content is all the things that thought has put into it, like politics, the division in politics, my country and your country, the ideologies, the Communist ideologies according to Marx and Lenin, or Eurocommunism with their particular brand of Communism. The content is all the religious dogmas, rituals, beliefs, the demand that you obey because the priests, or the popes, or the representatives, they think they are the representative of God or Christ. The content is fear, pleasure, pain, anxiety, loneliness, despair and the enormous sense of great sorrow, and the fear of death. All that is the content, of every human being in the world, whether they live in China, Asia, India, America or here. And when there is a transformation in consciousness it affects the whole of mankind. If you have gone through it you will find out. Do it and you will find out.	所以我们关心的是我们人类意识内容的转变。人类意识的内容就是思想所放进去的一切事物，比如政治——政治中的分裂，我的国家和你的国家，各种意识形态，共产主义的意识形态 ——依据马克思和列宁的，或者是带有其特殊共产主义特色的欧洲共产主义。意识内容也包含了所有的宗教教条、仪式、信仰，你所顺从的命令，因为那些牧师、教皇，或者那些代言人，他们认为自己代表了上帝或基督。意识的内容还包含了恐惧、快感、痛苦、焦虑、孤独、绝望、极度悲伤的感觉，以及对死亡的恐惧。这一切都是这世上每个人的意识内容，无论他们是生活在中国、亚洲、印度、美国还是这儿。而当意识中发生了一种转变，这种转变就会影响到全人类。如果你详尽地探究过这点，你就会明白。这么去做，然后你会明白的。
26:38	So we are going to examine together the various contents of consciousness, in which compassion doesn't exist. There is pity in it, there is sympathy, there is tolerance, there is the desire to help, there is a peculiar form of love, but all that is not compassion. So we are going to examine this thing. Please understand, though the speaker is sitting on a platform it doesn't give him any authority whatsoever. He is sitting there for convenience so that you can see the man who is speaking, that's all. Because we have accepted for so long the feeling of obedience, 'Tell us what to do and we will do it', that's not what we are saying. When there is understanding of what compassion is, out of that comes your own clarity and action, then you are outside of all the misery and the confusion, and therefore you can bring about a different consciousness in the world.	所以我们将一起来审视意识中各种各样的内容，但慈悲并不包含在其中。意识的内容中有怜悯、有同情、有忍耐、有想要帮别人的欲望，有一种特定的爱，但这一切都不是慈悲。所以我们来审视一下这件事。请理解，尽管讲话者正坐在讲台上，但这并不能赋予他任何的权威。他坐在那儿只是为了方便，以便你们能看见正在说话的人，仅此而已。因为长久以来，我们一直接受顺从的感觉， “告诉我们该做什么，然后我们就会去做”，但这并不是我们在说的东西。当你理解了什么是慈悲，从中就会产生你自身的清明与行动，然后，你就能置身于一切不幸和困惑之外，由此，你便可以为这世界带来一种不同的意识状态。
28:40	Now let's proceed. There's another train coming. We're asking whether compassion – or love – is pleasure. So we are going to investigate together, – please bear in mind, together – what is the significance and the meaning of pleasure, which every human being is seeking, which every human being is pursuing at any cost. What is pleasure? The pleasure derived from possession, the pleasure derived from capacity, talent, the pleasure when you can dominate another, the pleasure of having tremendous power, politically, religiously, or economically. Then there is the pleasure of sex, the pleasure that money gives so that you have a great sense of freedom. They're are all multiple forms of pleasure. And if you observe very carefully, look at yourself as though you are looking at yourself in a mirror, you will see that you are pursuing the same – pleasure. It may not be money, it may not be many possessions, but it may be through sex, or clinging to a particular form of experience, which has given you great delight, holding on to that, or a particular conclusion, an ideological conclusion that gives you a sense of great superiority, which is a form of pleasure.	现在，让我们继续。又一辆火车开过来了。我们在问的是慈悲 ——或者说“爱”——是不是快感？我们将共同去探究，请记住是我们一起去探究，快感的意思是什么，它有什么意义？每个人都在寻求快感，每个人都在不惜一切代价地追求它。什么是快感？快感源于占有，快感源于能力、才华，当你支配别人时会有快感，快感也来自于拥有巨大的权力 ——政治上的、宗教上的、经济上的权力。然后我们还有着性爱的快感，金钱所带来的快感，金钱让你拥有一种极大的自由感。这些都是快感的各种形式。并且，如果你非常仔细地观察，观察你自己，就好像你正在一面镜子中注视着你自己，你会发现你也在追求着同样的东西——快感。它可能不是金钱，它可能不是很多的财产，但它也许是性的快感，或者紧紧抓住某种特定的经验 ——这种经验曾带给你巨大的快乐，于是你紧抓着它不放，或是一个特别的结论，一个意识形态的结论，它给了你一种巨大的优越感，这也是快感的一种形式。
31:56	So, what actually is the meaning of pleasure? The word, not the pleasure derived from something, but the essence of pleasure. Because we discussed the other day when we met, the nature of fear, and whether human beings, you as a human being representing all humanity, can be free completely, totally of fear. We went into that very carefully and I do not think we'll go into it again today because we won't have time. So we're asking: what is the nature and the structure of pleasure, which every human being is seeking. In pleasure there are several things: there is enjoyment, there is a sense of joy, pleasure, enjoyment, joy, and further on, ecstasy. In the field of pleasure these are involved: pleasure, joy, taking delight in something, and the sense of ecstasy. The meaning of the word ecstasy, – please understand what it means – the root meaning is to be beyond yourself. There is no self to enjoy. The self, that is the me, the ego, the personality, has all totally disappeared, there is only that sense of being outside. That is ecstasy. But that ecstasy has nothing whatsoever to do with pleasure. So we're going to look carefully at pleasure, the meaning of it, in which is included joy, taking a delight in something and so on. I hope you want to go into this. And you may not want to go into it because you may be frightened, because you say, for God's sake, if you take away pleasure what have we in life? We are not taking away pleasure. We're not saying it's ugly, wrong, anything of that. We are examining it. But if you say, don't examine it too closely because I'm frightened, then please don't examine. But if you want to understand it, see the significance of it, go into it very deeply, then there must be no blockage by your fear.	那么，快感真正的含义是什么呢？这个词，不是指来自于某个东西的快感，而是快感的本质是什么。因为我们前几天见面时讨论了恐惧的本质，以及是否人类 ——你作为人类的一员就代表着整个人类—— 可以完全彻底地摆脱恐惧。我们已经非常仔细地探究过那个问题了，我觉得今天我们就不需要再探究它了，因为时间有限。所以我们问：快感的本质和结构是什么？快感是每个人都在寻求的。在快感中，有这么几个东西：有享受，也有喜悦感，快感、享受、喜悦，以及更近一步的，那就是“极乐”。在快感的领域中，就包含了这些：快感、喜悦、从某个事物中得到快乐，和一种“极乐感”。 “极乐”这个词， ——请理解这个词的含义—— 它的词根意思就是“超越你自己”。那时不再有一个在享受的“自我”。自我——也就是我、自我意识、个人—— 都已经彻底消失了，只存在着一种“超脱”感。那就是“极乐”。然而，这种“极乐”与快感是没有任何关系的。那么，我们将仔细地观察快感，它的含义，其中也包括了喜悦、从某种东西中获得快乐，诸如此类的。我希望你是愿意探究它的。你可能并不想探究它，因为你可能是畏惧的，因为你会说，看在上帝的份上，如果你拿走了快感，我们的生活还剩下什么呢？我们不是要拿走你的快感。我们没有说它是丑陋的、错误的，任何这类东西。我们是在检视它。可是如果你说，别检查得太仔细了，因为我会害怕，那么就请不要再审视了。可是，如果你想要理解它，想认识到它的意义，非常深入地探究它，那么就不能让你的恐惧来阻碍这件事。
36:02	We said: what is pleasure? You take a delight in something. The delight that comes naturally when you look at something very beautiful. At that moment, at that second, there is neither pleasure, nor joy, there is only that sense of great observation. And in that observation the self is not. When you look at those mountains with their snow caps, with their valleys, the grandeur, the magnificence, the extraordinary line of it drives away all thought. There it is, that great thing in front of you. That's a delight. Then thought comes along and says, what a marvellous thing that was, what a lovely experience that was, then the memory of that perception is cultivated, then that cultivation becomes pleasure. So where thought interferes with the sense of beauty, the sense of greatness, grandeur, of anything, a piece of poetry, a sheet of water, or a marvellous tree in a lonely field, seeing it and not registering it. Please understand, this is important. The moment you register it, the beauty of it, then that very registration sets thought into action. Then the seeing of that beauty and the desire to pursue that beauty becomes pleasure. Are we moving together somewhere? One sees a beautiful woman, or a man, and instantly it is registered in the brain. It is a fact, isn't it? Then that very registration sets thought into motion and you want to be in her company, all the rest of it follows. So pleasure is the continuation and the cultivation of an incident by thought, which gives a continuity. You have had sexual experience last night or two weeks ago, you remember it and the repetition of it, which is the demand for pleasure. This is fairly obvious.	我们问了：什么是快感？你以某个事物为乐。那种快乐来得很自然，当你注视着某个非常美丽的事物时。在那个时刻，在那个瞬间，既没有快感，也没有喜悦，只有那份非凡的观察。在那份观察之中，自我是不存在的。当你看着那些雪顶群山，以及它们的山谷溪流，那壮观、宏伟、非凡的轮廓将所有思想都驱散了。它就在那儿，这个伟大的事物就在你面前。那是一种快乐。然后，思想出现并且说，那是一件多么美妙的事啊，那是一次多么美好的经历啊，于是你便培养起了关于那份感知的记忆，然后，那种培育变成了快感。那么，思想在何处干涉了这种美好的感觉，对于无论何物的宏伟感和庄严感，不管是对于一篇诗文、一泓清泉，又或是一片孤独旷野中的一棵不可思议的树，观察它，而不去记录它。请明白这很重要。在你记录的那一刻，记录它的美丽，那份记录便开启了思想的运动。之后，所见的那份美丽，以及追求那份美丽的欲望便成了快感。我们是在一同前进吗？当我们看见一个美丽的女人，或是一个男人，我们就会立即将其记录在大脑里。这是一个事实，不是吗？之后，那份记录开启了思想的运动，你会想要与她为伴，余下的一切也就接踵而至了。所以，快感是在延续和培育某个思想中的事件，这带来了一种延续感。你昨晚或是两周前有过性经历，你记住了这段经历，然后去重复它，这就是对快感的需求。这是显而易见的。
39:46	So the point here is: is it possible not to register? You understand? The function of the brain is to register because in registration it is secure, it knows what to do. And in registration, knowing what to do, in which there is security, there is the development of skill. Then that skill becomes a great pleasure which is a talent, a gift, all that is the movement of the continuation of thought through desire and pleasure. You understand this? Can we go on from there? Please, I can go on. The speaker can go on. But are you going along with the speaker, doing it actually, seeing for yourself what is going on and realise the whole explanation, the discovery, the exploration of it. Right?	所以这里的重点是： “是否可能不去记录？” 你理解吗？大脑的功能就是去记录，因为在记录中它感到安全，它知道该去做什么。而就在记录中，在知道怎么做的过程中 ——在这之中就有着安全—— 发展出了技能。然后那种技能也变成一种巨大的快感，它成了一种才华、一种天赋，而这一切都是经由欲望和快感而来的思想延续的运动。你理解这点了吗？我们可以从这里继续探讨吗？请跟上，这样我就可以继续进行下去了。讲话者就可以继续讲下去了。可是，你们在与讲话者同行吗？是真的在这么做吗？自己去观察正在发生的事情，并且认识到它的全部含义，去发现，去探索。是这样吗？
41:28	So is it possible to register only that which is absolutely necessary, and not register anything else? Take a very simple thing: most of us have had pain, physical pain of some sort or another. And that pain is registered because my brain says, I must be very careful not to have that pain again tomorrow, or a week later, because physical pain is distorting. You can't think clearly when there is great pain. So the brain registers it. It's the function of the brain to register that pain so as to safeguard itself, so that it doesn't do things that will bring about pain. So it must register. Then what takes place? Look at it carefully for yourself. It has registered and then there is the fear of that pain happening again later. So, that registration has caused fear. We're asking, is it possible, having had that pain, to end it, not carry it on? Are you following this? Am I making it clear?	所以，是否可能仅仅记录那些绝对必要的东西，而不记录任何别的事呢？举个很简单的例子：我们大多数人都有过痛苦，某种生理上的痛苦或者其他方面的痛苦。那种痛苦被记录了下来，因为我的大脑说：为了明天或是一周后不再痛苦，我必须非常小心，因为生理上的痛苦会扭曲我们。当有着极大的痛苦时，你就无法清楚地思考。因此，大脑记录了它。记录那份痛苦是大脑的职责，这是为了保护它自己，这样它就不会再做那些会带来痛苦的事了。所以它必须记录。然后会发生什么？请你自己去仔细观察一下。它已经记录了，于是就会害怕那种痛苦以后会再次发生。因此，那种记录已经招来了恐惧。我们问，在经历了那种痛苦后，是否可能去终结它，而不是继续背着它？这点你明白了吗？我说清楚了吗？
43:41	We are talking from actual fact, not a theory, because we've all had pain of some kind or other, great pain or a little pain. And having that pain, end it, not carry over. Then the brain has the security of being free and intelligent. You see that? Because the moment you carry it over it is never free of fear, it is never free. But having had that pain, at the end of the day end it, don't think about it, let it worry you, my God, it's going to happen again tomorrow, consult the doctor, take drugs, etc., but end it, and then you will see for yourself.	我们在谈实际的事实，而不是一个理论，因为我们都有过某种痛苦，极大的痛苦，或是小痛苦。经历了那种痛苦后，终结它，不让其继续。那么，大脑便有了自由与智慧所带来的安全。你明白这点了吗？因为当你继续携带着它，它就永远无法摆脱恐惧了，它永远都无法自由。但当你有了那样的痛苦后，在一天结束的时候也结束它，不去想着它，不让它烦扰你，不去说，我的上帝，我怕它明天还会再来，然后去咨询医生，去吃药，等等，而是结束它，然后你自己就会明白。
44:55	So we are asking, together, I am not asking, you are also asking, whether it is possible not to register at all excepting the things that are absolutely necessary. The necessary things are knowledge, how to drive a car, how to speak a language, technological knowledge – please follow this carefully - technological knowledge, the knowledge of reading, writing, and all the things involved in that. But in our human relationship, between man and woman, every incident in that relationship is registered. Are you following this? It is registered and therefore what takes place? The woman gets irritated, or nagging, or friendly, kindly, or says something just before you go off to the office, which is ugly, so you build up through registration the image about her, and she builds an image about you. This is an actual fact, no? For God's sake, am I saying something extraordinary?	因此，我们在一同询问，不只是我在问，你也同样在问：是否有可能完全不去记录？除了那些绝对必要的事物。必要的事物就是知识，怎么开车，怎么说一门语言，科学技术的知识 ——请认真地理解这些—— 科技知识，如何阅读，如何写文章以及所有那些需要知识的事。然而在我们人类的关系中，在男人和女人的关系中，那种关系里的每个事件都被记录了下来。你跟上了吗？每件事都被记录下来，所以会发生什么呢？女人会变得恼羞成怒，或者唠叨不停，或者会变得友好和温柔，或者在你动身去上班之前，说你几句，说些难听的话，于是你通过记录建立起了关于她的形象，并且，她也建立了一种关于你的形象。这是一个实际的事实，不是吗？看在上帝的份上，我说的难道是一些很奇怪的东西吗？
46:55	In human relationship, between man and woman, or between a neighbour and so on, the image-making is the process of registration. That is when a wife says something ugly, to listen to it and end it, not register it. Or when the husband says something ugly, listen to it carefully, end it, not carry it on. Then you will find that there is no image making at all, because if there is no image between the man and the woman, then relationship is quite different – entirely different! But when there is an image between the two, the relationship is between one thought opposed to another thought. And that we call relationship, which actually it's not, it's just an idea that you are my wife or my girlfriend, just an idea. Do you get all this? I hope you are equally active as the speaker is.	在人类关系里，男人与女人之间，又或是邻里之间等等，形象的建立其实就是记录的过程。当妻子朝你说了几句不好听的话时，聆听它，然后结束它，不要把它记录下来。或者当丈夫对你恶言相向时，仔细听他的话语，然后结束，不要继续携带着它。然后你就会发现你完全不会建立起任何形象了，因为，如果男人与女人之间没有形象的存在，那么关系就会变得十分不同——截然不同！可是，当两个人之间存在一个形象，这份关系便只是两个对立的想法之间的关系了。而我们就把这称为“关系”，但实际上它不是，它只是一种概念，认为你是我的妻子或者女朋友，只是一个概念而已。你明白这些了吗？我希望你和讲话者的头脑是一样活跃的。
48:31	So we are enquiring into the question of what is the nature and the structure of pleasure. Pleasure is the continuation of an incident, that continuation given by thought. So thought is the root of pleasure. If you had no thought, you saw a beautiful thing, it would end. But thought says no, I must have more, the whole movement of thought. So what is the relationship of pleasure to joy? Joy comes to you uninvited, it happens. You're walking along in a street or sitting in a bus, or wandering in the woods, seeing the flowers, the hills, and the clouds and the blue sky and suddenly there is an extraordinary feeling of great joy. Then registration, thought says, what a marvellous thing that was, I must have more of it. So joy is made into pleasure by thought. This is not analysis, this is mere observation. That is, seeing things as they are, not as you want them to be. Seeing things exactly without any distortion, what is taking place. When you do that we are together, we are journeying together, we are exploring together.	所以我们正在探询这个问题：快感的本质和结构是什么。快感是某件事情的延续，这种延续是思想所赋予的。因此，思想是快感的源头。如果思想没有掺和进来，那么当你看见一样美丽的事物后，它便会就此结束了。但思想会说：不，我还想要更多，这就是思想的全部运动。所以快感和喜悦之间有什么关系？喜悦是不请自来的，它只是发生了。你沿街而走，或坐在公车上，或者在林间漫步，欣赏花朵、山岭，还有蓝天白云，突然之间就产生了一种非凡的、巨大的喜悦感。然后你把它记录下来，思想说，那是多么美妙啊！我想要更多。于是思想便把喜悦变成了快感。我不是在分析，这只不过是观察而已。也就是如实地去看待事物，而不是依照你对它的期望。看到事物的真实模样，没有任何扭曲，看到正在发生的事情。当你那样做时，我们便是在一起的，我们在一同旅行，我们在一同探索。
50:58	So from that: what is love?	所以从这里就可以问：爱是什么？
51:06	What time is it, sir?	先生，现在几点了？
51:09	Audience: Eleven twenty.	听众：11点20了。
51:12	K: What is love? Please, again, we all have so many opinions about it. We have got such extraordinary ideas about it: love is this, love is not that, you mustn't talk about love in front of a girl, extraordinary things we have. Now, we are going to examine the thing clearly. Examine it together. The speaker is not telling you what love is, or you are telling the speaker what love is, but we are examining it. So you must be free of your prejudice. You must be free of your opinions, what love should be. You are free to look. So what is love? Is it pleasure? As we said, pleasure is the movement of thought and the continuation of an incident through the movement of thought, which is pleasure, which is explained very carefully, it is not my explanation, you can observe it for yourself. And we say, is that pleasure? Is the movement of thought love? You understand? Is love a remembrance, a thing that has happened, between a man and woman that happened, and the remembrance of it, and living in that remembrance and feeling that remembrance which is over, resuscitating it and saying, what a marvellous thing that was when we were together under that tree, that was love. That is the remembrance of a thing that's gone. Is that love? Is love the pleasure of sex, in which there is tenderness, kindliness, etc., is that love? We are not saying it is or it is not. We are questioning, as you must question everything in life! Doubt – everything. But if you doubt everything you'll have nothing left. Doubt must be kept on a leash, as you keep a dog on a rope or a leash, so doubt must be kept on a leash, and you must know when to let it go and when to hold it back. That's the art of doubt.	克：爱是什么？请注意，同样的，对此我们有着无数的看法。我们有着各种稀奇古怪的观点：爱是这个，爱不是那个，你不能在一个女孩面前谈论爱，我们有各种非同寻常的看法。现在，我们来清楚地审视“爱”这个东西。一起来探究它。讲话者并不是在告诉你爱是什么，也不是你来告诉讲话者爱是什么，而是我们在共同审视它。因此，你必须摆脱你的偏见。你必须摆脱你对于“爱应该是什么”的观点。你要自由地去观察。那么，爱是什么呢？爱是快感吗？正如我们说过的，快感是思想的活动，以及通过思想活动而来的对于某件事情的延续 ——这就是快感，这点我们已经仔细地解释过了，但那不是我的解释，你自己就可以观察到。那么我们问：爱是快感吗？思想的运动是爱吗？你理解吗？爱是一种记忆，一件发生过的事情吗？男女之间有过一些故事，他们将这些事铭记于心，活在那种回忆里，感受着那份已经结束了的回忆，然后将这份回忆唤醒，说：当初我们一同在那树下的时候，是多么的美好啊，那就是“爱”。那是对已经过去的事情的记忆。但那是爱吗？爱是性快感吗？那之中有着温柔、亲切等等这些，但那是爱吗？我们没有说它是或不是。我们只是在质疑，就像你必须质疑生活中的一切事物一样！质疑——一切。然而，如果你怀疑一切，你就会一无所有。怀疑必须保持在一定范围内，就像你用一条绳子或皮带来拴住一条狗一样，所以你也必须对怀疑加以限制，你必须知道什么时候让它出来，什么时候让它乖乖待着。这就是怀疑的艺术。
54:56	So we are doubting, questioning everything that man has put together by saying, this is love. So we say, is love pleasure? If it is, then pleasure gives emphasis to the remembrance, to past things, brings about importance of the me: my pleasure, my excitement, my remembrances. So is that love? And is love desire? Ask these questions, burn with these questions, because you've got to find out, because we have reduced love into pleasure, which is a daily fact. Is love desire?	所以我们正在怀疑，正在质疑每一样人类所拼凑起来的认为那就是爱的东西。所以我们问，爱是快感吗？如果它是，那么快感就强调了那种记忆、那些过去的事情，赋予了“我”以重要性：我的快感、我的激动、我的回忆。所以那是爱吗？爱是欲望吗？问问这些问题，让这些问题熊熊燃烧，因为你必须要查明真相，因为我们已经把爱降低为快感，这是日常生活中的事实。爱是欲望吗？
56:25	So what is desire? I desire a car, I desire a house, one desires prominence, power, position. There are a dozen things one desires: to be beautiful as you are, to be as intelligent, as clever, as smart as you are, desire. And what is desire? Does desire bring clarity? Please question it with me. The thing you call love, and we are saying is that love based on desire, desire to possess a woman, to sleep with a woman, or sleep with a man, desire to hold her, possess her, dominate her, control her, she's mine, not yours. And the pleasure derived in that possession, in that dominance. Man dominates the world, and so there is the woman fighting the domination. So what is the nature and the structure of desire? Desire, not for something, not for the house, for a good car, or position, power, be prominent in your little society, in your little pond. So we have to find out what is desire.	那么欲望是什么？我渴望拥有一辆车，我渴望一幢房子，人们渴望出名、权力、地位。人渴望着许许多多的事物：能够像你一样漂亮，像你一样的智慧、聪明和机智，这就是欲望。那么，欲望是什么？欲望能带来清明吗？请和我一起去质疑。你所谓的“爱”，而我们问，那种爱是基于欲望的吗？渴望拥有一个女人，渴望和某个女人上床，或和某个男人上床，渴望留住她、占有她、支配她、控制她，她是我的，不是你的。从那份占有之中，从那份支配感中，就会产生快感。男人支配着这个世界，于是女人奋起反抗这种支配。所以，欲望的本质和结构是什么？这里所指的欲望，不是对于某个东西的欲望，不是渴望一幢房子、一辆好车，或是地位、权力，也不是在你那小小的社会中、在你的小圈子里出人头地。所以我们必须搞清楚欲望本身是什么。
58:26	We're not saying we shouldn't have desire. That's what the churches throughout the world say, the organised religions have said, suppress desire. If you want to serve God you must be without desire. And the priests have maintained that but though they talk about being without desire they are burning with desire, boiling with it. They may not want worldly things, they want to become the bishop, the archbishop, the pope, climb the ladder of spiritual success.	我们不是说我们不应该有欲望。那是全世界的教会所主张的，那些组织化的宗教说了，你要压制欲望。如果你想要服务上帝，你必须无欲无求。而牧师们也主张那样，可是，尽管他们嘴上说着无欲无求，他们依然欲火中烧，他们内心的欲望在沸腾着。他们想要的可能不是世俗的事物，但他们想要成为主教、大主教、教皇，爬上通往灵性成就的阶梯。
59:18	So what is desire? Does desire bring about clarity, and therefore that clarity is skill in action. In the field of desire does compassion flower? You have to ask these questions. So to find out the truth of the matter you must examine what desire is, not desire for the object, the objects are not important, you can vary, when you're a child you desire a toy, as you grow older you desire something else. So we are not discussing, or talking over together the objects of desire, but actually what is desire. If it does not bring clarity, and if desire is not the field in which there is the beauty and the greatness of compassion, then what place has desire? So you must go into it and find out, not according to any psychologist, any preacher, including that of the speaker, but together, to find out. We are insisting that we think together, reason together, find out together. Not, I find and then you accept, or reject, but together find out. So what is desire? Desire for a better society, and the cultivation of that desire which becomes passion for an idea. People are so committed to Communism, they are passionate about it, or to any other form of ideological projection. It becomes very important to go into this question of what is desire, not how to suppress it, how to run away from it, how to make it more beautiful, but just what is desire? How does it come about that human beings are caught in this? One year you are a Christian, or for thirty years a Christian, then you throw that out and join some other label called Hindu, or Buddhist, or whatever it is, or Zen.	所以欲望是什么？欲望能否带来清明，进而那份清明转变为行动中的技能。在欲望的世界里，慈悲能够绽放吗？你必须问问这些问题。因此为了找出事情的真相，你必须探究欲望是什么，而非欲望的对象——那些不重要，因为你欲望的对象会变，小孩子的时候，你渴望一个玩具，随着长大，你会渴望别的事物。因此，我们没有在讨论或谈论欲望的对象，而是欲望实际上是什么？如果欲望无法带来清明，如果欲望的世界里无法诞生出美和伟大的慈悲，那么欲望的位置是什么？因此，你必须探究然后把它搞清楚，不是根据某个心理学家、某个传道者的说辞 ——也包括讲话者的说辞，而是我们一起去发现。我们坚持要一同思考，一同推理，一同查明，不是我搞明白了，然后你去接受或者拒绝，而是一同去探明真相。所以，欲望是什么？渴望一个更好的社会，而对这种欲望的培育会变成对某个理念的高昂热情。人们是如此忠诚于共产主义，他们为之热血沸腾，或者会对其他形式的理想蓝图充满热情。探究“欲望是什么”这个问题变得非常重要，不是如何抑制它、如何逃离它、如何美化它，而仅仅是：什么是欲望？人类是如何深陷其中的？你做了一年的基督徒，或是三十年，然后你不做了，加入了某个其他教派，比如印度教、佛教、禅宗，无论什么。
1:02:42	In enquiring we must deal with facts, not with opinions, not with judgements, then you have your opinion, and the speaker, he has no opinion, and so there is a battle, therefore there is no communication. But we are going into facts, not your fact or my fact, but the fact that human beings have colossal desires, absurd desires, illusory desires. So what is desire? How does it come? Go into it, look at it, you have your own desires, unfortunately or fortunately. Desire to be good, you know. How does that desire arise from you, in you? You see a beautiful woman or a beautiful man – see. Perception, the seeing, then the contact, then the sensation, then that sensation is taken over by thought, which becomes desire with its image. Follow it yourself, you will see it. You see a beautiful vase, a beautiful sculpture – I don't mean the modern sculpture, sorry. Somebody may like that, but personally I don't like it – you see a beautiful statue, the ancient Egyptian or the Greek, and you look at it. As you look at it, if they allow you to touch it, you touch it. See the depth of that figure as he sits on a chair, or cross-legged. And then from that there is a sensation, isn't there? What a marvellous thing. And from that sensation the desire says, I wish I had that in my room. I wish I could look at it every day, touch it every day. And the pride of possession to have such a marvellous thing like that. That is desire, isn't it? Seeing, contact, sensation, then thought, using that sensation to cultivate the desire to possess or not to possess. This is obvious, it's not my explanation. It is a factual explanation.	在探询中，我们必须着眼于事实真相，而非观点、判断，因为那样你有你的观点，而讲话者却没有什么观点，于是战争就开始了，因此就没有了交流。可是，我们要探究事实真相，不是你的事实或我的事实，这个事实就是，人类有着无数巨大的欲望，荒谬的欲望，虚幻的欲望。那么，欲望是什么？它是如何产生的？探究它，观察它，你有你自己的欲望 ——不知这是幸运还是不幸。渴望做个好人，你明白的。那种欲望是如何出现在你身上，出现在你内心的？你看见一个美丽的女人或一个英俊的男人 ——你眼睛看到了。感知，看到，然后是接触，然后是感觉，然后那种感觉被思想所接管，变成了带着画面的欲望。请你自己去理解它，你会看到这点的。你看见一个美丽的花瓶，一座美丽的雕塑 ——抱歉，我说的不是现代雕塑。有人可能会喜欢那个，但我个人并不喜欢，你看见一个美丽的塑像，古埃及或是古希腊的，你观察它。在你观察它时，如果他们允许你摸一下，你就会触摸它。感受到了那雕像的深邃，他坐在一张椅子上，或是盘腿而坐。从中便有了一种感受，不是吗？一件多么美妙的艺术品啊。从这份感觉中，欲望说：我希望把它摆在我的房间里。我希望我可以每天都看到它，每天都能触摸到它。还有那种能够拥有它的骄傲，能够拥有这样一件精美绝伦的艺术品。这就是欲望，不是吗？看到、触摸、感觉，然后思想利用那种感觉培育起了要去拥有它或者不要拥有它的欲望。这是显而易见的，这并不是我的解释。这是一种基于事实的解释。
1:06:25	Now comes the difficulty: realising that the religious people throughout the world have said, don't look! When a woman comes near you look at something else. Think of her as your sister, mother, God, or whatever it is. You laugh, you are born in this. You are conditioned to this. All the religious people have said, take vows of celibacy. Don't look at a woman. If you do look, treat her as your sister, mother, whatever you like, because you are in the service of God, and you need all your energy to serve him. In the service of God you're going to have great tribulations, therefore be prepared, don't waste your energy. But the thing is boiling. So we are trying to understand that which is boiling. Not to look at a woman or a man, but that which is desire that is constantly battling, wants to fulfil, wants to complete itself. So we said, desire is the movement of parception, seeing, contact, sensation, thought as desire with its image. We are saying, see, touch, sensation, that's normal, healthy, right ? End it there! Don't let thought come and say, yes, take it over and make it into a desire. Understand this, then you will see. Then you'll never suppress, there'll be no suppression of desire. That is, you see a beautiful house, well proportioned, lovely windows, beautiful garden, well kept, with a roof that melts into the sky, walls that are thick, and, you know, part of the earth. You look at it, there is sensation. You touch it, you may not actually touch it, you touch it with your eyes, then you smell the air, the herb, the newly cut grass. Can't you end it there? Why does sensation become desire? You are following this, am I making it clear? When there is perception, contact, sensation, it is natural, it's beautiful to see a lovely thing, or an ugly thing. To end it there, say, it's a beautiful house. Then there is no registration as thought which says, I wish I had that house, which is the desire and the continuation of desire. You can do this so easily! And I mean it, easily, if you understand the nature of desire.	现在，难题来了：你知道全世界的宗教人士都说过的话：别看女人！当一个女人走近你时，就去看其他的东西。把她想象成你的姐妹、母亲、上帝、无论什么。你们笑了，你们就生长在这种环境里。你们受限于此。所有的宗教人士都曾说过，要宣誓禁欲独身。不要看女人。如果你看了，把她当成你的姐妹、母亲，随便你想把她当成谁，因为你在服侍上帝，并且，你需要用你所有的精力来服侍他。在服侍上帝的过程中，你将会经历巨大的磨难，因此你要做好准备，不要浪费你的精力。然而与此同时，那个东西却在沸腾着。因此，我们在试图理解那个正在沸腾的东西。不是去看一个女人或一个男人，而是去看那个在不断斗争的欲望，它渴望满足自己，想要成全它自己。因此我们曾说过，欲望就是感知、看到、接触，感觉的运动，思想就是带着想象画面的欲望。我们说的是，看到、接触然后产生感觉，这是正常的、健康的，不是吗？然后到此为止！别让思想掺和进来然后说：是的，我会来接管它，然后将它变成欲望。理解这点，然后你就会明白。那样你就永远不会去压抑了，你不会去压制欲望。也就是说，你看见了一幢漂亮的房子，比例匀称，有着漂亮的窗户，精心打理的美丽花园，屋顶与蓝天浑然一体，厚厚的墙壁，你知道的，与大地融为一体。你看着它，一种感觉产生了。你触摸它，你可能不是真的在触碰它，只是用你的目光去触摸它，然后你嗅到了空气、香草的味道，刚刚修剪好的青草味道。你不能就在这里结束它吗？为什么感受会变成欲望呢？你们跟上了吗？我表达清楚了吗？你有了感知、接触和感觉，这是很自然的，这是一件很美的事 ——看到一个美好的东西或者一个丑陋的东西。说，这是一幢漂亮的房子，然后就此打住。那么便不会有记录，没有思想在说，我希望我能拥有那幢房子，那就是欲望以及欲望的延续了。这件事很容易做到的！我是认真的，这很容易 ——如果你理解了欲望的本质的话。
1:11:12	So we're asking: is pleasure love? Is remembrance love? Is desire love? So pleasure, remembrance, desire, are the movement of thought. Therefore one asks: does thought cultivate love? Is thought love? Am I making this clear? Please, come on. A: Yes.	所以，我们问：爱是快感吗？爱是记忆吗？爱是欲望吗? 快感、记忆、欲望，这些都是思想的运动。因此，我们问：是思想培育了爱吗？爱是思想吗？我表达得清楚吗？拜托，参与进来。听众：好的。
1:11:55	K: So find out. If it is not pleasure, because pleasure has its place, it is not desire, it is not remembrance though they have their places, then what is love? Is love jealousy? Is love a sense of possession? My wife, my husband, my girl, possession? Has love within it fear? Ask these questions, find out. Therefore if it is none of these things – none of these things! – entirely wiping away all these things, putting all these in the right place, then love is you understand, then love is!	克：所以去把它搞清楚。如果爱并不是快感 ——因为快感有它自己的位置，爱不是欲望，它也不是记忆——尽管这两者都有着自己的位置，那么，爱是什么呢？爱是嫉妒吗？爱是一种占有感吗？ “我的”妻子、“我的”丈夫、“我的”女朋友，你的占有物？爱里面存在恐惧吗？问问这些问题，去搞清楚。因此，如果爱不是这些东西， ——一个都不是！—— 那就彻底抹掉所有这些东西，将所有这些事物放置在正确的位置上，然后爱就在了，你明白的，那时爱就出现了！
1:13:21	We are saying that through the negation the positive is. Through negation. That is, is pleasure love? And we examined pleasure and we see it's not quite that, though pleasure has its place, it's not that, right? So you negate that. You say it is not remembrance, though remembrances are necessary. So we put remembrance in its right place, therefore you have negated remembrance as not being love. You have negated desire, though desire has its certain place. Therefore you say, through negation the positive is. But we, on the contrary, we posit the positive and then get caught in the negative. That is, one must begin with doubt, completely doubting, then you end up with certainty. But if you start with certainty, as all of you do, then you end up in uncertainty and chaos.	我们说的是通过否定，正面的事物就会出现。通过否定。也就是说，爱是快感吗？我们检视了快感，并且我们认识到爱根本不是快感，尽管快感有它自己的位置，可是爱并不是快感，对吗？因此，你否定了快感。你说爱不是记忆，尽管记忆是必需的。于是我们把记忆放在了它正确的位置上，由此，你便否定了记忆，它也不是爱。你也否定了欲望，尽管欲望有它特定的位置。因此你说，通过否定，正面的东西就出现了。然而我们却恰恰相反，我们假设了那个正面的东西，然后受困于反面之中。也就是说，你从一开始就要去质疑，彻底地去怀疑，这样最后你才能得到确定无疑的东西。可是，如果你从确定无疑开始——就像你们所有人在做的，那么到了最后，你得到的就是不确定和混乱。
1:15:03	So, in negation the positive is born. I've finished. I've finished for this morning. We'll continue next Tuesday.	因此，从否定之中就产生了肯定。我讲完了。今天早晨的演讲到此结束。我们下周二再继续。