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SA77T5 - 是否有一种行动是没有起因和动机的?
公开讲座5
萨能, 瑞士
1977年 7月 19日



0:22 Krishnamurti: We have been talking over together whether it is possible to awaken the intelligence. That's our chief concern. Those who are serious will have followed the past four talks – or rather talking over things together. This morning, if I may, I would like to go into something that I think is equally important. 克里希那穆提:我们一直在讨论 是否有可能唤醒智慧。 那是我们最关心的事。 那些认真的人 已经听了前四次演讲 ——或者更确切地说,是一起在讨论。 今天上午,如果可以的话, 我想探究一件我认为同样重要的事。
1:09 This awakening of intelligence implies having an insight into all our problems: psychological problems, crises, blockages and so on. The word intelligence, according to a good dictionary, means reading between the lines, partly. Also, really, deeply, the significance of intelligence is to have deep true insight. Not an intellectual comprehension, not resolving the problem through conflict, but having an insight into a human issue. That very insight awakens this intelligence. Or having this intelligence there is the insight, both ways. Having an insight involves no conflict, because when you see something very clearly, the truth of the matter, there is the end of it, you don't fight against it, you don't try to control, you don't make all these calculated, motivated efforts. From that insight, which is intelligence, there is action. Not a postponed action but immediate action. That's what I would like to talk over together this morning a little bit, and then we'll go on to some other problems if we have time. 智慧的觉醒 意味着能够洞悉我们所有的问题: 心理上的问题, 各种危机、阻碍,等等。 智慧这个词 ——根据可靠词典里的解释—— 意味着领会字里行间的深意, 这是它一部分的意思。 而在真正的、深刻的层面, “智慧”的含义 就是拥有真实深刻的洞察力。 不是一种智力上的理解, 也不是通过冲突来解决问题, 而是能够洞悉人类的问题。 那份洞察力就能唤醒这种智慧。 或者说,有了这种智慧就会有洞察力, 这是双向的。 拥有洞察力 不会包含任何冲突, 因为,当你非常清楚地看到某件事, 看到事情的真相时, 它就结束了,你不会再与之抗争, 你不会试图去控制它, 你不会去进行所有那些精心算计的、含有动机的努力。 从那份洞察——也就是智慧中, 就产生了行动。 不是拖延的行动,而是立即的行动。 这正是我想在今天早上 和你们共同讨论一下的, 然后如果还有时间,我们会再谈一些其他的问题。
3:39 We are educated from childhood to exercise as deeply as possible every form of effort. If you observe yourself you will see what tremendous efforts we make to control ourselves, to suppress, to adjust, to modify ourselves to certain conclusions, pattern ourselves according to some patterns, or according to an objective that you or another has established, and so there is this constant struggle. You must have noticed it. One lives with it and one dies with it. We are asking if it is possible to live daily life without a single conflict. And as most of us are somewhat awakened to all the problems: political, religious, economic, social, ideological and so on, when you are a little bit aware of all that there must be discontent, as most of us are dissatisfied. When you are young this dissatisfaction becomes like a flame, and you have passion to do something so you join some political party, the extreme left, the extreme revolutionary, the extreme forms of Jesus freaks and so on. And by joining, adopting certain attitudes, certain ideologies, that flame of discontent fades away, because you are then satisfied. You say, this is what I want to do, and you pour your heart into it. And gradually you find, if you are at all awake to all the problems involved, that doesn't satisfy. But it's too late, you have already given half your life to something which you thought would be completely worthwhile, but when you find a little bit later on that it's not, then I'm afraid one's energy, capacity, drive has withered away. One must have noticed that our discontent, with regard to politics, why we are governed, by whom we are governed, for what purpose are we governed, the discontent that questions the religious attitudes, the religious dogmas, the orthodoxy of the priest, the gurus, the discontent questions it, doubts it. And gradually you like somebody, or some idea, or your girlfriend says, that is the right thing to do, old boy, go after it. And you want to please her and so you adjust yourself to that pattern. So gradually this real flame of discontent withers away. You must have noticed it in yourself, in your children, in the young people, and the neighbours, this is the pattern that is followed all the time, generation after generation. 我们从小便被教育着 去竭尽全力地去进行 各种努力。 如果你观察一下自己, 你就会认识到我们做了多么大的努力 去控制我们自己, 去压抑、 去适应, 去根据某些结论来修正我们自己, 依照某些模式, 或者依照你或别人设定的目标来塑造我们自己, 于是便有了无休止的斗争。 你肯定也注意到了这点, 我们伴随着斗争生活,也伴随着斗争死去。 我们在问: 是否可能过一种 没有任何冲突的日常生活。 而因为我们大多数人都多少意识到了这些问题: 政治的、宗教的、 经济的、社会的、 意识形态的等等, 在你稍微意识到一点以后, 便一定会心存不满, 就像我们大多数人都是不满足的一样。 当你还年轻时, 这种不满就像一团火焰, 你满怀激情地想去做点事情, 于是你加入了某个政党, 极端左翼, 极端的革命党, 极端的耶稣迷等等。 然后通过加入这些政党, 采取某种特定的态度或意识形态, 你身上不满的火焰便消退了, 因为那时你就满足了。 你说,这正是我想做的,然后你全身心地投入其中。 然后你渐渐发现 ——如果你真的意识到了其中涉及到的所有问题—— 那并不能满足你。 但此时已经太晚了, 你已将你的半辈子献给了某件事, 某件你曾认为绝对值得你付出的事, 但随后你却发现它并不值得, 但恐怕那时你的精力、能力和动力都已消耗殆尽了。 我们肯定已经注意到了 我们对于政治的 不满, 为什么要别人来统治我们, 又是谁在统治着我们, 统治我们是为了什么目的, 那种不满会质疑各种宗教立场, 质疑宗教教条, 质疑牧师和宗教领袖的正统观念, 那种不满会去质疑它、怀疑它。 然后你渐渐喜欢上了某个人、某种理念,或者你的女朋友说: 这是正确的事情,老兄,去追求它吧。 于是,你为了讨好她, 便让自己适应了那种模式。 所以慢慢地, 真正的不满之火便逐渐熄灭了。 你肯定已经在自己身上看到了这一点, 在你的孩子、在年轻人身上,在邻居身上注意到了这一点, 这是我们一直在跟随的模式, 一代又一代地延续着。
8:10 We are talking over together, I am not laying down the law, we are investigating, exploring into something that is really worthwhile if you go into it very, very deeply. Most of us fortunately, if you are at all alive to things, are discontented, and not to allow that discontent to be squashed, destroyed by the desire to be satisfied, by the desire to adjust oneself to the environment, to the establishment, or to a new ideal, to a new utopia. But to allow this flame to keep on burning, not be satisfied with anything, then the superficial satisfactions have no place. This very dissatisfaction is demanding something much greater than the ideals, the gurus, the religions, the establishment, ecology and so on, they've become totally superficial. That very flame of discontent, because it has no outlet, because it has no object in which it can fulfil itself, that flame becomes a great passion. And that passion is this intelligence. Am I making this clear? Not verbally, is it clear to you, who must be dissatisfied with your husband, with your wife, with your girl, or boy, with the society, with the environment, with all the ugly things that are going on in the name of politics, government. If you're not caught in some of these – superficial reactionary, essentially reactionary, all of them – then that extraordinary flame is intensified. That intensity brings about a quality of mind that has a deep insight instantly into things, and therefore from that there is action. 我们在一同讨论, 我并没有定下什么条条框框, 我们正在调查和探索 一些真正有价值的事情, 如果你非常非常深入地探究它的话。 幸运的是,我们大多数人 ——如果你对事物真的敏感的话—— 我们大多数人都是不满的, 并且也不允许那份不满 被碾碎 和摧毁——被想要满足的欲望, 被想要 让自己去适应环境、 适应既有体制,或是适应某个新理想、 新乌托邦的欲望所碾碎。 然而,如果你允许这火焰保持燃烧, 不满足于任何事物, 那么那些肤浅表面的满足 便没有立足之地了。 这份不满本身 需要的是某种远远比 理想、宗教领袖、宗教、 既有体制、社会生态学等等更伟大的事物, 以上这些东西都已经变得彻底肤浅了。 那股不满的火焰, 因为它没有释放的出口, 因为它没有一个可以满足自己的对象, 于是那股火焰就变成了巨大的热情。 而那份热情正是这种智慧。 我表达清楚了吗? 不是从字面上, 而是你究竟有没有清楚? 你一定不满于 你的丈夫、妻子,不满于你的女友或男友, 不满于社会、环境, 不满于所有那些以政治、政府的名义而进行的 丑陋之事。 如果你并没有受困于这些东西 ——那些肤浅的反应, 从根本上来说,它们都是反应—— 那么那股非凡的火焰就会愈演愈烈。 那种火焰的强度 就带来了一种心灵品质, 它可以立即深刻地洞察事物, 并且从中产生出行动。
12:02 As most of us here, and I hope it is a fact, that you who are here are dissatisfied. Why are you governed, by whom are you governed, for what purpose are you governed? That's one question. Why do we accept religious patterns of any kind, whether the religious patterns of the ancient Hindus, their tradition, their superstition, their authority, their worship of tradition, or the Zen Buddhism, Zen meditation, or the transcendental meditation, everything? Not to be satisfied. It doesn't make you nervous. It doesn't bring about imbalance. There is imbalance only when this dissatisfaction is translated, or caught in a trap of some kind or another. Then there is distortion, then there are all kinds of fights, inwardly. 就像我们大多数人来到这里 ——我希望我说的是事实—— 那就是来这里的人都是心怀不满的。 你为什么要被支配, 你要被谁支配, 支配你是出于什么目的? 这是一个问题。 为什么我们要接受任何的宗教模式, 古代印度人的宗教模式, 他们的传统、他们的迷信、 他们的权威、他们对传统的崇拜; 还有禅宗佛教、禅宗冥想, 或者超觉冥想,等等? 不要轻易满足。 这并不会使你不安, 也不会造成失衡。 只有 当这种不满被转化, 或者陷入这样那样的陷阱中,才会出现失衡。 那时就会有扭曲, 而内在也会有各种斗争。
13:35 So, since you are here, and you must obviously, if I may point out, you must be dissatisfied, including with what we are saying, right? To be aware of this flame and not allow superficial temptations and be caught by them. Are we doing this now as we are talking over together? Or having been caught in these various traps, can you put them aside, wipe them out, destroy them, do what you like, but have this tremendous flame of discontent now? It doesn't mean you go and throw bombs at people, destroy, physical revolution, violence, but when you put aside all the traps that man has created around you, and you have created for yourself, then this flame becomes a supreme intelligence, and that intelligence gives you insight. And when you have insight, from that there is immediate action. Are we following something? I'm very keen on this, eh ? Because to me action is not tomorrow. An action – it has been a great problem with a great many people, with deep thinkers – action without cause, action without motive, action not dependent on some ideology, which is, the ideology is in the future and there is constant adjustment to that ideology, therefore there is conflict. So it has been one of the demands of serious people to find out if there is an action which is 'per se', for itself, which is without cause and motive. I don't know if you have ever asked this question of yourself, and I hope you are asking it now. Is there an action – in life, in daily life, in which there is no motive, there is no cause, and therefore, see what is implied in it: no regrets, no retention of those regrets and the sequence that follows from that regret, it doesn't depend on some past or future. 所以,因为你们都来到了这里, 如果我可以这么说的话,你们很显然必定都是 心怀不满的, 包括对我们正在说的东西不满,对吗? 觉察这火焰, 不要允许 肤浅的诱惑进来 然后陷入其中。 当我们一起讨论的时候,我们正在这么做吗? 还是受困于各种各样的陷阱中, 你能不能将它们搁置一旁, 扫除它们、摧毁它们,你可以做任何想做的事, 但是一定要让这巨大的不满之火在此刻燃烧? 这并不意味着你要向人群投掷炸弹、 去摧毁一切, 去进行外在的革命、武装革命, 而是当你抛开了 人们在你周围所造的 和你为自己所造的所有陷阱, 那时这股火焰就会变成至高的智慧, 那份智慧就会赋予你洞察力。 而当你具备洞察力后, 从那之中就会产生立即的行动。 我们都跟上了吗? 我对这件事有着浓厚的兴趣,对吗? 因为对我来说,行动并不在明天。 真正的行动 对很多人来说一直都是一个大问题, 也包括那些有深刻思考的人, 真正的行动是没有起因、 没有动机的, 也不依赖于某种意识形态。 意识形态是属于未来的, 你需要不断地去调整,以适应那种意识形态, 由此便会有冲突。 因此,对于那些认真的人来说,他们需要做的一件事 就是去发现是否存在一种行动, 它是“为自己”的,它是为自身而存在的, 也就是没有起因和动机的。 我不知道你是否曾经问过自己这个问题, 我希望你们现在就问一问。 生活中,日常生活中,是否存在这样一种行动, 它是没有动机、没有起因的, 由此你便能够看到它所隐含的意思: 这种行动不会留下遗憾, 没有遗憾会被保留下来, 也不会有遗憾后悔所产生的后续事件, 它并不依赖于过去或未来。
17:41 So one is asking: is there an action in daily life, the daily life which we know, what it means, what is involved in it, where action is always free? And this action is possible only when there is insight born of intelligence. Am I making it clear? Verbally perhaps, but dig deeply, have insight into it, into what the speaker is saying. 所以我们问: 日常生活中是否存在一种行动 ——我们都知道日常生活意味着什么,包含些什么—— 这种行动永远都是自由的? 而这种行动只有当 有了源自于智慧的洞察时才可能产生。 我表达清楚了吗? 字面上你也许清楚了,但你要去深入发掘它, 去洞悉它, 探究讲话者所说的东西。
18:40 So our question then is... Our question is, is it possible to live a daily life without any conflict whatsoever? Most people would say you must have conflict otherwise there is no growth. Part of life is conflict. A tree in a forest fights, struggles to reach the sun. That's a form of conflict. Every animal and so on makes conflict, but we are human beings, supposed to be intelligent, supposed to be educated, supposed to have sufficient knowledge, historical, and yet we are constantly in conflict. Now discontent says, why should I be in conflict? Are you doing this now? 所以这时我们的问题就变成了 我们的问题是, 有没有可能过一种没有任何冲突的日常生活? 大多数人会说你必须要有冲突, 否则便不会有成长。 冲突就是生活的一部分。 哪怕林子里的一棵树也在抗争, 努力向着太阳生长。 这就是一种冲突。 每一种动物,等等它们都有冲突, 可我们应该是具备智慧的人类, 我们是受过教育的, 我们有着丰富的历史知识, 然而,我们却仍旧一直处于冲突之中。 现在,不满说, 为什么我要处于冲突之中? 你们现在在这么做吗?
20:27 I hope they're having fun up there. 我希望营帐外的那些人能够玩得愉快。
20:42 We are educated to conflict. Conflict implies comparison, imitation, conformity, adjustment to a pattern, modified continuity of what has been, through the present to the future. All this is a process of conflict. The deeper the conflict the more neurotic one becomes. And therefore not to have conflict at all. One believes in something most deeply, you believe in God most deeply and say, 'His will be done' and we create a monstrous world. Which is his will being done. Conflict implies, as I said, comparison. To live without comparison. Please do it now. Which means no ideal, no authority of a pattern, no conformity to a particular idea or ideology, and therefore freedom from the prison of ideas. Are you doing it? So that there is no comparison, no imitation, no conformity. Therefore you are stuck with 'what is', right? What is actually. Because comparison comes only when you compare what is with what should be, or what might be, or try to transform what is into something that which is not. All this implies conflict. 我们的教育是指向冲突的。 冲突意味着比较、 模仿、遵从、 调整以适应一种模式, 对之前的样子进行修正,然后把它延续下去, 通过现在到达未来。 这一切都是冲突的过程。 冲突越深,人就会变得越神经质。 因此,不要有任何冲突。 我们深深信仰着某些东西, 你深深信仰着上帝,说,“他的意志将会达成”。 然后我们建造了一个可怕的世界。 在这个世界中,他的意志正在被达成。 冲突意味着,正如我所说, 意味着比较。 去没有比较地生活。 请现在就这么做。 那意味着没有理想, 没有某种模式的权威, 也不去遵从某种特定的理念 或意识形态, 由此就摆脱了观念的囚牢。 你们正在这么做吗? 这样就不会有比较、 不会有模仿,也不会有遵从。 由此 你便牢牢抓住了“真实现状”,不是吗? 你与事实共处了。 因为比较之所以会出现,是因为你拿 当前的情况和“应该怎样” 或者“也许会怎样”比较, 或者试图去把“真实现状” 转变为并非现状的样子。 这一切都意味着冲突。
23:45 Thousands go to India, from America and from Europe, to find enlightenment, to find the real guru, because they realise their religion, their outlook is very limited, materialistic, and India is supposed to be tremendously spiritual – which it is not – and there people go and try to find out. And the guru, the pattern, the tradition says, do this, then that, conform to this. And they try every way, which is to bring about greater conflict in themselves. This is what is happening right throughout the world. And so we are asking: is it possible to live without conflict? It is possible when you have an insight into what is being said, to find out actually, in daily life, to live without comparison. Therefore you remove a tremendous burden. I wonder if you see that. If you remove the burden of comparison, imitation, conformity, adjustment, modification, then you are left with what is. 成千上万的人从美国和欧洲前往印度, 去寻求开悟, 去寻找真正的宗教领袖, 因为他们意识到他们的宗教, 他们的视野是非常有限的、唯物主义的, 而印度被认为是高度精神化的, ——当然事实并非如此—— 于是人们去那里,然后努力寻找。 于是那些宗教领袖、那些模式、 那些传统说,先这样做,然后再那样做, 你要遵循它。 而他们尝试了每一种方式, 但这些方式却给他们内心带来了更大的冲突。 这是全世界正在发生的事。 所以我们问: 是否可能没有冲突地生活? 当你具备了一种探究所说事物的洞察力, 就有可能 在日常生活中真正去发现真相, 去没有比较地生活。 由此,你便移除了一个巨大的负担。 我不知道你是否明白了这点。 如果你拿掉了这些沉重的负担——比较、 模仿、遵从、调整、修正, 那么你就只剩下“真实现状”了。
25:41 Conflict exists only when you try to do something with what is. May I go on? When you try to transform it, modify it, change it, or suppress it, run away from it, then conflict arises. But if you have an insight into what is, then conflict ceases. You understand my point? Are you doing it? When there is no comparison then you are left with what is. Conflict arises only when you are moving away from what is. And what happens with the thing what is? I'll show you. 只有当你试图对现状做点什么,冲突才会存在。 我能继续吗? 当你试图转变它、 修饰它、改变它, 或者压抑它、逃离它时, 冲突才会出现。 可是,如果你可以洞察实际现状,冲突便会停止。 你理解我的意思了吗? 你在这么做吗? 当比较不存在时, 你就只剩下“真实现状”了。 只有当你离开“真实现状”时,冲突才会产生。 那么,那时的“真实现状”会发生什么呢? 我马上来告诉你。
26:52 One is greedy, or envious, or violent. The fact is that you are violent, greedy, envious, that's a fact. The non-fact is non-violence: you must not be greedy, you must be noble, etc. So there is a movement away from what is and therefore that is conflict. So, when you do not move away from what is, when thought does not move away then there is only what is. One is violent, that's a fact. There is no escape from it whatsoever, suppression of all the violence, which is another form of violence. So you are left with violence, or with greed, or with envy. Can you have an insight into violence? Violence implies conflict, violence implies running away from what is, violence implies having an ideal of non-violence. So when you put away all that, you are left with what is, and to have an insight into that. Please follow this, give your heart to this! That can only happen when you are completely free of any form of having a desire to change what is. You understand this? Are we all together in this or am I just talking to myself? Please, life is very short. To find out a way of living which is righteous, and righteousness is only when there is no conflict, How do you have an insight into what is? You understand my question? We are governed, why are we governed, what is government? Everything, and that is what is. How do you have an insight into what is? I am taking the example of violence – all forms of government are violent, the extreme right and the extreme left or even the centre. And there is violence, human beings are violent. They say it is part of his nature, and therefore you must accept it. Being aware, one doesn't accept anything, we question. We said the day before yesterday there is the art of doubt. The art of doubt is to let doubt express itself and also to learn when not to. 某人是贪婪的、妒忌的,或者暴力的。 事实是你是暴力的、贪婪的、妒忌的, 这是一个事实。 而“非暴力”并不是一个事实: 你绝不能贪婪,你必须高尚,等等。 因此你离开了“真实现状”, 于是冲突便产生了。 因此当你不离开“真实现状”时, 当思想没有逃离它, 那么就只剩下“真实现状”了。 你是暴力的,这是一个事实。 你不以任何方式逃避它, 也不压制所有的暴力, 压制不过是另一种形式的暴力。 因此,剩下来的只有暴力、贪婪或妒忌了。 你能洞察暴力吗? 暴力意味着冲突, 暴力意味着逃离事物的真实现状, 暴力意味着怀揣一种“非暴力”的理想。 所以当你将那一切都摒弃, 你就只剩下“真实现状”了, 然后洞察那种“真实现状”。 请理解这一点,用心去理解! 而这只能发生在 当你完全摆脱了一切形式的 想要改变“真实现状”的渴望的时候。 这点你理解了吗? 我们是不是有了共识,还是说我只是在自言自语? 拜托,生命是非常短暂的。 你要找到一种 正直的生活方式, 而只有当没有冲突时,才会有正直, 你要如何才能具有对“真实现状”的洞察力? 你理解我的问题吗? 我们都被支配着, 为什么我们要被支配,什么是政府? “真实现状”就是你身边的一切事物。 你如何拥有一种对于“真实现状”的洞察力? 就拿暴力来举个例子, 所有形式的政府都是暴力的, 不管是极端右翼,还是极端左翼, 甚至是中间派。 暴力是存在的, 人类是暴力的。 他们说,这是人本性的一部分, 因此你必须接受它。 然而如果有觉察,我们就不会接受任何东西,我们会去质疑。 我们前天说过有一种怀疑的艺术。 怀疑的艺术是让怀疑适时表达它自己, 同样去学习何时不要怀疑。
31:25 So, how does one have an insight into this, into violence, without analysis. You see the problem? Because if you analyse, as we went into it, if you escape from it, they're all forms of the activity of thought which avoids the solution of what is. How do I, or you, have an insight into this question of violence? What is the state of the mind, what is the state of your mind when you are looking at what is? I am asking you: what is the state of your mind when you are not escaping, not trying to transform, or deform what is? What is the state of that mind that is looking? I may say something which may be shocking, but please go into it with me. The state of the mind that has an insight, it is completely empty. Because it is free from escapes, free from suppression, analysis and so on. So when all these burdens are taken away, because you see the absurdity of them, it is like taking away a heavy burden, so there is freedom. Freedom implies an emptiness to observe. And that emptiness gives you insight into violence, not the various forms of violence, the whole nature of violence and the structure of violence, and therefore there is immediate action about violence, which means you are free completely from all violence. You get it, for God sake! Have you understood? Is your mind, when you look at what is; greed, envy, jealousy, whatever it is, is it empty to observe so that there is instant insight and action, and therefore freedom from what is. Get it? 那么,我们如何才能有一种对此、对暴力的洞察, 而无需任何分析呢? 你明白这个问题了吗? 因为就像我们探讨过的,如果你去分析它, 如果你逃避它 ——那些都是思想的活动形式, 是在回避对于“真实现状”的解决。 那么我,或者你,要如何才能洞察暴力的问题呢? 当你观察“真实现状”时,心灵的状态, 你心灵的状态是怎样的? 我正在问你: 你的心, 当你没有在逃避, 没有试图去转变或扭曲“真实现状”时, 你那颗在观察的心,它的状态是怎样的? 我或许会说一些令人震惊的东西, 但请你和我一起去深入它。 那种拥有洞察的心灵, 它是完全“清空”的。 因为它摆脱了逃避、压抑、 分析等等。 所以当所有这些负担被拿掉以后 ——因为你看到了它们的谬误—— 就像是取下了一个沉重的负担,由此便得到了自由。 自由意味着清空自己去观察。 那种“清空”给予了你对暴力的洞察, 不是洞察暴力的各种形式, 而是洞察暴力的全部本质和结构, 因此你立即会对暴力采取行动, 这意味着你彻底摆脱了所有的暴力。 看在上帝的份上,你明白了吧?! 你理解了吗? 当你观察“真实现状”: 你的贪婪、妒忌、嫉妒、无论什么时, 你的心是否清空了自己去观察,那时就会有立即的洞察与行动, 并由此摆脱掉了“真实现状”。明白了吗?
35:00 We are not playing intellectual games, or analytical games. We are concerned with the awakening of intelligence. As I said, intelligence means, according to the dictionary, reading between the lines. See what is implied in reading between the lines. That you must be so awakened to not be caught by words, but to see clearly, see the clarity in which there is no print. You get it? I wonder. Because in between the lines there is no printing, and there is only white space, which is clarity. And that clarity if you have, gives you insight into what is being said on the page. Insight implies observing what is with a mind that is completely free and therefore empty to observe what is, and therefore you have an insight. When you are violent and you do not escape from violence, avoid it, try to transform it into some nonsensical non-violence then you are free of all that burden. Being free the mind is empty, that emptiness gives you insight. And when you have insight into violence you are no longer violent. You see without effort, that's what I want to get at. Are you all too old to follow this? 我们不是在玩智力游戏, 或者分析的游戏。 我们关心的是智慧的觉醒。 就像我说过的,智慧, 根据词典里的意思,就是“领悟言外之意”。 看看“领悟言外之意”中隐含着什么。 那就是你必须如此警醒,从而不受困于文字, 而是去清楚地观察, 领会那种没有文字痕迹的清明。 你理解了吗? 我不知道你有没有理解。 因为“言外之意”中是没有那些印刷出来的文字的, 只有白色的空隙,这空隙便是清明。 而如果你有这种清明, 它就能使你洞察到书页上所说的东西。 洞察意味着 用完全自由的心去观察“真实现状”, 从而可以清空自己去观察事实, 由此你便会拥有洞察。 当你充满暴力时,不要逃离暴力、 回避暴力, 也不要试图将暴力转变成无意义的“非暴力”, 然后你就会摆脱掉一切负担。 当心灵获得了自由,它就能清空自己, 而那种“清空”便能赋予你洞察。 而当你能够洞察暴力时, 你就已经不再暴力了。 你可以毫不费力地看清一切, 这就是我想要说明的。 你们是不是都年纪太大了,有点跟不上?
37:34 We are pointing out it is possible to live a daily life, in which there is not a shadow of conflict. You know what it means, to live a life without conflict? See for yourself what it means. Because conflict is the strengthening of the self, the me, and therefore there is separation: the me and the you, we and they. So it is possible to live a life without conflict, not because the speaker says so but because you have discovered it, it is the truth, not mine or yours. 我们正在指出的是,我们是可能去过一种 没有丝毫冲突阴影的日常生活的。 你知道去过一种没有冲突的生活意味着什么吗? 请你自己去弄清它意味着什么。 因为冲突强化了自我, 那个“我”, 因此便有了分裂: “我”和“你”,“我们”和“他们”。 所以我们是可能去过一种没有冲突的生活的, 并不是因为讲话者这么说了, 而是因为你自己发现了它, 这是真相,不是我的或你的。
38:39 So from discontent, not to allow that flame to be smothered in any trap, and to understand the nature and the structure of insight, and that can only happen when you are not caught in any trap. 所以从那种不满出发, 不允许那火焰被闷熄 在任何陷阱中, 而是去了解洞察的本质和结构, 只有当你不陷在任何陷阱中时才会产生洞察。
39:12 Now we can move to something else. Is this very clear? Can I go on to something else? Next week we are going to discuss, have a dialogue about all these questions, dialogue, a conversation between two friendly people. I hope you are friends. So we are going to have a dialogue. If there is anything that's not clear let's discuss it, talk about it. 现在我们可以来谈点别的了。 之前讲的东西都清楚了吗? 我能继续讲点别的东西吗? 下个礼拜,我们将会进行讨论, 进行一场对话,来谈一下所有这些问题, 就像两个好朋友之间的对话和交谈。 我希望你们都是我的朋友。 所以我们来进行一场对话。 如果有任何不清楚的地方,让我们来讨论它、 探讨它。
40:01 The other thing I would like to go into this morning is sorrow. We have talked about authority, we have talked over together about the desire for security, the nature and the structure of authority, we talked about fear, pleasure, love. And if we may, we also should talk over together this enormous problem of suffering. I hope you are not tired, are you? We are going to have an insight into suffering. 今天早上,我想探究的另一个主题 是悲伤。 我们已经谈过了权威, 我们也一起讨论过了 对安全的渴望、 权威的本质和结构, 我们也谈了恐惧、快乐、爱。 如果可以的话, 我们也应该一起来探讨一下“痛苦”这个巨大的问题。 我希望你没有感到太累,你累了吗? 我们要来深刻地理解“痛苦”这个东西。
41:11 There is not only a particular human being with his suffering, there is the suffering of the world. There is suffering through poverty, ignorance, there is suffering brought about through death, there is suffering out of great pity, there is suffering when you see animals tortured, killed, maimed, there is suffering when there is war, thousands of mothers and sisters and wives, girls crying their heart out because we have accepted war. I don't know why we have accepted it, but you have. So wars have brought about immense suffering. The totalitarian, the authoritarian dictators have brought immense suffering. Concentration camps, one may not have been in them but you see it, you know it is happening and you suffer. 并不是只有 某个人感到了痛苦, 全世界的人都在受苦。 有来自贫穷和无知的痛苦, 有死亡所带来的 痛苦, 有因深深的怜悯 而生的痛苦, 还有当你看到动物被人类虐待, 被杀死、致残时所产生的痛苦, 还有来自战争的痛苦, 成千上万的母亲、姐妹、妻子、女孩, 痛彻心扉的哭泣, 因为我们已经接受了战争。 我不知道我们为什么接受,但你们确实已经接受了它。 于是战争带来了巨大的痛苦。 那些极权主义者, 那些独裁者, 带来了巨大的痛苦。 你知道那些集中营, 你可能没在集中营待过,但你见过它, 你知道这一切正发生着,而你在受苦。
43:07 So there are these various kinds of suffering, not only personal but the suffering of the whole of humanity. You are aware of it, aren't you? And we have accepted it. We say love is part of suffering. When you love somebody it brings about suffering. So we are going to question together whether it is possible to be free of all suffering, and when there is this freedom from suffering in the consciousness of each human being who is listening here, then that freedom from suffering brings about a transformation in consciousness and therefore that consciousness, that radical change in consciousness, affects the whole of mankind's suffering. That is part of compassion, not saying, I suffer, my God, why do I suffer? Why should I suffer? And from that suffering, act neurotically and try to escape from that suffering through various forms of religious, intellectual, social work and so on, escape from it. So we are saying: is it possible for every human being here to be free of this enormous burden of suffering? Where there is suffering you cannot possibly love. That is a truth, a law! When you love somebody and he or she does something which you totally disapprove, and you suffer, it shows that you don't love. I am not laying down the law, but see the truth of it. How can I suffer when my wife – if I have a wife, or a girl – throws me away and goes after somebody else? And we suffer from that. We get angry, jealous, envious, hateful, and at the same time we say, I love my wife, or my girl. I say such love is not love. Is it possible not to suffer and yet have immense love, the flowering of it? 因此,存在着各种各样的痛苦, 不仅是个人的痛苦, 而是全人类的苦难。 你已经意识到了这点,对吗? 而我们已经接受了它。 我们说爱是痛苦的一部分。 当你爱上某人时,这会带来痛苦。 所以我们将一起提出这个问题: 我们能否摆脱所有的痛苦? 当这种脱离痛苦的自由 存在于每一个 正在这里聆听的人的意识中时, 那么那种脱离痛苦的自由 便会带来一次意识的转变, 于是那个转变后的意识, 那种意识中的根本改变, 就会影响到人类的全部痛苦。 这就是慈悲的一部分, 而不是喊着:我很痛苦,天哪,为什么我会受苦? 为什么痛苦的是我? 然后因为那份痛苦而产生出各种神经质的行为, 努力去逃离那种痛苦, 通过各种宗教,通过知识, 通过社会工作等等来逃离它。 所以我们在问: 在座的每一个人,是否可能 摆脱痛苦这个巨大的负担? 当有了痛苦,你就不可能去爱。 这是一个真理,一个铁律! 当你爱着某个人, 然后他或她做了一些 你非常不喜欢的事情,然后你感到痛苦, 这说明你并没有在爱。 我不是在制定什么规则,而是去看到它的真相。 如果我有爱,那么当我的妻子 ——如果我有妻子或女朋友的话—— 抛弃了我而跟别人跑了以后,我又怎么会痛苦呢? 而我们却会因此而痛苦。 我们会勃然大怒,嫉妒、 羡慕、心怀怨恨, 而与此同时,我们却说:我爱自己的妻子, 或是女朋友。 我认为这种爱并不是爱。 是否可能没有痛苦, 却拥有无限的爱, 让爱绽放?
47:07 So we are going to find out what suffering is. There is physical suffering. Headaches, operations, malformed bodies, accidents that bring about amputation, or some form of ugly deformity. There is suffering from the various unfulfilled desires – I hope you are following all this – There is suffering from the loss of a person whom you think you love. After all what is the structure and the nature and the essence of suffering? The essence of it, not the various forms of it. What is the essence of suffering? I am asking myself for the first time. I am going to find out, together we are going to find out. Is it not the total expression at that moment of complete self-centred existence? It is the essence of the me, the essence of the ego, the person, the limited, enclosed, resisting existence which you call the me, the form, the name, all that. When there is an incident that demands investigation and understanding, and insight, that very incident brings about the awakening of the me, the essence, and that I call suffering. What do you say? If there was no me, would you suffer? You would help, you would do all kinds of things, but you wouldn't suffer. 因此,我们要去搞清楚痛苦是什么。 有着身体上的痛苦。 头痛、手术的疼痛、 生理缺陷, 遭遇事故而不得不截肢, 或者某种生理上的畸形。 还有种种欲望无法满足所带来的痛苦 ——我希望你跟上了—— 当你失去了一个 你认为你爱的人时,也会有痛苦。 归根结底,痛苦的结构、本质 和实质是什么? 它的实质,而不是它的各种表现形式。 痛苦的实质是什么? 我是第一次问我自己。 我要去发现,我们要一同去把它搞清楚。 在痛苦的那一刻, 这痛苦难道不就是 那种彻底自我中心的存在的 充分表达吗? 痛苦就是“我”的核心, 自我、个人的核心, 那个局限、封闭、抵抗的存在的实质 ——你称之为“我”,样子、名字,等等这些。 当发生了某件事情时 ——这件事需要你的探究、了解 与洞察—— 这件事会唤醒那个“我”,唤醒那个核心, 而我称之为“痛苦”。 你怎么看? 如果没有“我”,你还会痛苦吗? 你会去帮助别人,你会去做各种事情, 可你不会感到痛苦。
50:57 Suffering then is the expression of the me, which includes self-pity, loneliness, trying to escape, trying to be with the other who is gone, all that's implied which is the very me, which is the past. The image of the past which is me, the knowledge, the remembrance of the past, which is me. What relationship has suffering – the essence of the me – to love? Please think it out, let's think it out together. We're asking: is there any relationship between love and suffering? 痛苦 是自我的表达, 它包含了自怜、孤独、 试图逃避,试图和离去之人待在一起, 痛苦就意味着这一切,而这就是那个“我”, 也就是过去。 过去的形象,就是“我”; 过去的知识、过去的记忆,这就是“我”。 痛苦就是“我”的实质, 那么痛苦和爱有什么关系呢? 请思考这个问题,让我们一起来思考它。 我们在问: 爱与痛苦之间有任何关系吗?
52:22 Is love put together by thought, whereas the me is put together by thought. Oh, come on! I see something. Are we following? Is love put together by thought? The experience, the memories, the remembrances, the pain, the delight, the pleasures, and the pursuit of pleasure, sexual or otherwise, the pleasures of possession, possessing somebody and the somebody liking being possessed, all that is the structure of thought, which we've gone into. And the me with its name, with its form, the essence of me is the nature and structure put together by thought. Obviously. So what is the relationship between love and suffering? If love is not put together by thought – please go into this, put your heart into this! – if love is not put together by thought then suffering has no relationship to it, therefore action from love is different from action from suffering. Why am I so intense about all this? Why aren't you so intense? 爱是由思想堆砌而成的吗? 而那个“我”是由思想堆砌而成的。 噢,参与进来!我已经看到一些东西了。 我们都跟上了吗? 爱是由思想堆砌而成的吗? 经验、记忆、回忆、 痛苦、快乐、欢愉、 追求快感——性快感或是其他快感、 占有所带来的快感:你拥有某人, 以及某些人喜欢被占有, 这一切都是思想的结构, 这些我们都已经谈过了。 而那个“我”, 它有着自己的名字,自己的样子, 而“我”的核心,是由思想堆砌起来的本质和结构, 这是显而易见的。 那么,爱与痛苦间的关系是什么? 如果爱不是由思想堆砌而成的 ——请探究这一点,用心去探索!—— 如果爱不是由思想堆砌而成的, 那么,痛苦便和爱没有什么关系, 因此,出自于爱的行动 和出自于痛苦的行动是截然不同的。 为什么我会对这一切如此热忱? 为什么你们没有这种热忱?
54:28 To have an insight – please follow this – to have an insight into suffering, which means, what place has thought in relationship to love, and in relationship to suffering? To have an insight into it, which means you are neither escaping, wanting comfort, frightened to be lonely, isolated, therefore your mind is free, therefore that which is free is empty. And if you have that emptiness, which means freedom, you have an insight into suffering. Therefore suffering as the me disappears. There is immediate action because that is so. So your action then is from love, not from suffering. 具备一种洞察力 ——请跟上—— 洞察痛苦, 这意味着 弄清思想在它和爱的关系中、 在它和痛苦的关系中,有着怎样的位置? 要洞察这一点, 意味着你不去逃避, 也不想要慰藉, 你不怕孤独,也不怕被孤立, 因此你的心是自由的, 而自由之物是空无的。 如果你有了那种“空” ——那种“空”就意味着自由—— 你便能洞察痛苦。 因此作为“我”的痛苦便消失了。 你会有立即的行动,因为这是自然而然的事。 因而你的行动就是来自于爱的,而不是来自于痛苦的。
55:51 Then one discovers that action from suffering is a continued action of the me modified, and therefore constant conflict. You can see the logic of it all, the reason for it. It is possible to love without a shadow of suffering. What is the action of compassion? If love is not the result of thought, thought, which is the response of memory stored up in the brain as knowledge and experience, that thought is not love, and our action is based on thought. 'I must do this', 'this is my motive', it is based on the movement and the modification of thought. When thought is not love, then what is the action of compassion, love? We can say then, from there, what is the action of an insight out of which there is intelligence? We are saying compassion is intelligence. What is the action of intelligence which is not the outcome of thought? What is the action of intelligence? Can you ask such a question? If you have intelligence it is operating, it is functioning, it is acting. But to say, what is the action of intelligence, you want thought to be satisfied. You see what I mean? When you say what is the action of compassion, who is asking it? Is it not thought? Is it not the me that is saying, if I could have this compassion I'll act differently? Therefore when you put that question you are still thinking in terms of thought. But if you have an insight into thought then thought has its right place and intelligence then acts. Have you got it for this morning? 然后我们会发现:来自于痛苦的行动, 是那个“我”加以修改之后行动的延续, 因此会有持续的冲突。 你可以看到这一切中的逻辑与理性。 去爱 而没有丝毫痛苦的阴影——这是可能的。 慈悲的行动是什么? 如果爱不是思想的结果 ——思想就是记忆的反应, 它储存在大脑中,作为知识和经验, 那种思想并不是爱, 而我们的行动是基于思想的。 “我必须这么做”,“这是我的目的”, 这些都是建立在思想的运动以及思想的改变上的。 如果思想不是爱, 那么什么是慈悲和爱的行动? 从这里,我们就可以说, 什么是会产生智慧的洞察带来的行动? 我们说慈悲就是智慧。 那么什么是智慧的行动 ——那种并非思想产物的行动? 什么是智慧的行动? 你能问这样一个问题吗? 如果你拥有智慧,那么它就会运作, 它会起作用,它会行动。 但是如果你只是问:什么是智慧的行动? 那么你就是想让你的思想获得满足。 你明白我的意思吗? 当你问:什么是慈悲的行动? 是谁在问这个问题? 难道不是思想吗? 难道不是那个“我”在说, “如果我可以拥有这种慈悲,我的行动就会截然不同?” 因此,当你提出那个问题时, 你仍旧是依据思想在思考。 但如果你能够洞察思想, 那时思想就会有其正确的位置,然后智慧就会开始运作。 今天早上讲的东西你都明白了吗?
59:38 Is that enough for this morning? It's enough for me, for the speaker. So see, sirs, what is implied in all this, how important it is that there should be a radical revolution, psychological revolution, because no politics, no government, no Lenin, Marx, nobody is going to solve any of our problems – the human problem from which every misery comes, from a human being who is functioning, living, operating, acting on thought. And when you have an insight into thought then you also have an insight into the nature and the beauty of love, and from there, action from that. 今天早上的内容是不是已经讲得差不多了? 对我来说,对讲话者来说,已经差不多了。 所以先生们,请看看这当中所隐含的一切, 这对我们来说是多么重要 ——那就是我们应该有一次彻底的革命, 心理上的革命, 因为不管是政治、政府、 列宁还是马克思, 没人能解决我们的任何问题, 解决任何人类的问题, 正是这些问题带来了各种痛苦, 这些问题来自于一个基于思想而运作、生活、运行 和行动的人。 而当你洞察了思想, 那么你就同样能够洞察到 爱的本质与爱的美, 并且从中产生出行动。
1:01:06 There's a nice story of a preacher, a teacher. Perhaps some of you have heard it from me, if you have heard it please forgive me for repeating it. There was a teacher and his disciples. Every morning he used to talk to the disciples, give a sermon. And one morning he gets on the rostrum, on the pedestal, and as he was just about to begin a bird comes in and sits on the window sill and begins to sing. And the preacher stops talking and listens to the bird, the beauty of the sound, the blue sky and the quietness of that song. And the bird flies away. So he turns to his disciples and says, 'The morning sermon is over.' 有一个很有趣的故事, 讲的是一个传道者、一个老师。 也许你们有些人已经听我讲过了, 如果你已经听过了,请原谅我又重复一遍。 曾经有一位老师,他有一些弟子。 每天早上他都会向弟子们讲话,对弟子们布道。 一天早上,他走上了讲坛, 坐在台子上, 当他正要开始的时候, 一只鸟儿飞了进来,停在了窗台上, 然后开始唱歌。 于是,传道者停止了讲话,开始聆听鸟儿的歌唱, 聆听那美妙的声音, 聆听蓝天和那歌声中蕴含的宁静。 然后,鸟儿飞走了。 于是他转向他的弟子们,说: “今天早上的讲道结束了。”