克里希那穆提 - 一种永恒的动态

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA77T7 - 一种永恒的动态
公共讲座7
萨能, 瑞士
1977年 7月 24日

0:21	Krishnamurti: It's really a lovely morning. I don't know why you are sitting in this hot tent.	克里希那穆提：这真是一个美好的早晨。我不知道你为什么要坐在这个闷热的帐篷里。
0:41	There are several things that we ought to talk over together, though we have discussed many things, many human problems, and to go beyond all those problems, to be free. But I would like this morning, if I may, to perhaps go into rather complex problems, complex issues, and I think they should be talked over together. Perhaps some of you are here for the first time, so if I may point out, this is not a lecture where you listen, agreeing or disagreeing, or are put to sleep by the words, however eloquent they may be. But we are travelling together on a journey of a serious character, and unless one partakes in that journey, one shares and walks in that journey seriously, what we are saying will have very little importance and very little effect – not that one wants to make an effect.	我们需要来一起讨论几件事情，尽管我们已经讨论过很多东西，很多人类的问题，以及去超越所有这些问题，去获得自由。但今天早晨，如果可以的话，我想要来探究一些相当复杂的问题，复杂的事情，我认为这些问题应该集中在一起加以讨论。你们中的一些人也许是第一次来到这里，所以如果我可以指出的话，这并不是一次讲座，你随便听听，然后表示同意或不同意，或者听着这些话语而昏昏欲睡 ——不管那些话也许是多么具有说服力。我们是在一起经历一场认真的旅行，而除非你参与到这场旅行中来，在这场旅行中认真地分享和前进，否则我们所说的东西就无足轻重了，而效果也将微乎其微， ——但请别误解成我想要获得某个效果。
2:37	We have talked about authority, we have talked about fear, pleasure, love, sorrow, and the very deep issue of death. And also we said, during these talks, and I believe this is the last talk, we said man has developed through centuries a great deal of skill, and that skill gives him certain importance, prestige and money. But without clarity, which comes through compassion, that skill becomes merely a destructive factor in life. We talked a great deal about that too.	我们已经谈过了权威，我们已经谈过了恐惧、快感、爱、悲伤，以及死亡这个深刻的主题。而我们在这几次讲话中也说了 ——我想这应该是最后一场讲话了—— 我们说了人类世世代代以来已经发展出了大量的技能，而那种技能赋予了他某种重要感、声誉和金钱。然而如果没有那种来自于慈悲的清明，技能就仅仅变成了生活中具有破坏性的因素。关于这一点我们也谈了很多。
3:43	Now if we may, let us talk over together the question of decision, whether it is necessary to decide at all, and the place of will, and also we are going to discuss or talk over together the question of time and space. And perhaps if we have time we can go into the question of meditation too. So we are going to talk over together the machinery that makes one decide, the action that is born of will, and what is the nature and the structure of time, and the importance of space. And from there move, if we can, into the question of what is meditation.	现在，如果可以的话，让我们一起来谈一下关于“决定”的问题，我们究竟需不需要“下决定”，以及意志的位置是什么，同样，我们也要一起来讨论或探讨一下时间和空间的问题。而最后如果我们有时间，我们或许也可以来探究一下冥想这个问题。所以我们要一起来探讨一下那种使人去“下决定”的机制，那种源自于意志的行动，以及时间的本质与结构是什么，还有就是空间的重要性。并且如果可以的话，我们可以从这里出发，去探讨一下冥想是什么。
5:15	Meditation is not something separate from all that we have talked about. It is not at the end of the parcel. When we talked about authority, that is part of meditation, the nature of fear and whether man can ever be free of fear both outwardly and inwardly, and the structure and the pursuit of pleasure – all that is part of meditation. And we also talked about the nature of love. And to investigate together you need a certain quality of mind that is meditative, that is not jumping to conclusions, that is not affirming or rejecting, but investigating, investigating without any prejudice, without any conclusion, without any end. After all that is a good scientist, not the scientist that is employed by governments, but the scientist who really wants to find truth, at whatever level. And also we talked about relationship, the importance of human relationship without conflict. That was also the deeper meaning of meditation.	冥想与我们讨论过的一切并不是分离的。它不是最后一个压轴节目。当我们谈论权威时，那就是冥想的一部分，探讨恐惧的本质以及人是否可以摆脱恐惧 ——不管是外在还是内在的恐惧，快感的结构，以及对快感的追求，这一切都是冥想的一部分。我们也同样谈到了爱的本质。而想要一起去探究，你需要有一颗具有特定品质的心，这颗心能够冥想，它不急于得出结论，它不会去断言或拒绝，而是会去探究，没有任何偏见地去探究，没有任何结论，也没有任何目标。毕竟，一个好的科学家就是这样的，不是被政府所雇佣的那些科学家，而是真正想要发现真理的科学家 ——各个层面上的真理。我们也讨论了关系，以及没有冲突的人类关系的重要性。那同样也是一种更深层意义上的冥想。
7:00	So we would like this morning, if we may, to talk over together, and we mean talk over together, though the speaker is sitting on a platform using words, we are taking the journey together, walking together, exploring together. Because we have created this monstrous world, the world that's becoming mad with violence, division, war, sorrow, etc. So as we have created the society in which we live, we are responsible to bring about a transformation in that immoral society. So it is our responsibility as a human being. And each human being is the representative of total humanity, we talked about that. So we are taking a journey, exploration, an investigation together into why human beings decide, decide to do this and decide not to do that, to become this or not that, to follow somebody or not to follow somebody. All our life is a process of decision. We are asking if you are aware that one's life is based on various forms of deciding. We should also ask why we decide at all. Is it necessary, both physiologically, in the world of technology, and also psychologically, inwardly, what is the necessity of any form of decision, which is very important because when we are going to go into the question of meditation one must know the nature of decision. Because meditation is not something you decide, it's not something that is set down by some guru, or some neurotic person. So it is very important to understand why human beings throughout the world for millennia upon millennia have always exercised this faculty of decision.	因此，如果可以的话，我们今天早上要一起来探讨，而我们所说的一起探讨是指，尽管讲话者正坐在讲台上遣词用句，但我们是在一同进行这场旅行，一起行走，一起探索。因为我们已经建造了这个丑陋的世界，这个世界正变得越来越疯狂，充满了暴力、分裂、战争、痛苦，等等。所以因为我们已经造出了这个我们所生活的社会，所以我们有责任去改变这个道德沦丧的社会。所以这是我们作为人类一员所具有的责任。每一个人都代表了全人类，这个我们已经说过了。所以我们正在进行一场旅行、一次探索，一起去探究为什么人类需要“下决定”，决定去做这个，决定不去做那个，决心去变成这样，或者不要变成那样，决定跟随某个人，或者不去跟随某个人。我们全部的生活就是一个决定的过程。我们在问：你是否觉察到了你的生活是基于各种形式的“决定”的。我们同样应该问问自己究竟为什么要做决定？这是必要的吗？无论是在科技世界里，外在身体上的决定，还是心理上的、内在的决定，我们需要任何形式的决定吗？这是非常重要的，因为当我们去探究冥想这个问题时，我们必须要明白决定的本质。因为冥想并不是某种你可以“决定”的东西，它并不是由某位宗教领袖或者某个神经质的人所制定的一件事。所以最重要的是去了解为什么数千年来，全世界所有的人一直都在“做决定”。
10:16	What is decision made of, what is the cause of decision? Would you decide if you are very clear? Is there any decision necessary when you see something very dangerous? Is there any necessity for decision – that is to act in a certain manner, or not to act in another way? Is the mind capable of observing the totality of the movement of thought, the totality, the wholeness of thought, the holistic – the meaning of the word holistic is the same as the other, whole. Whole means, the root meaning of that word is health, sanity, and holy, H-O-L-Y. That means the whole totality of life, not just departmentalised life.	决定是由什么组成的，它的源头是什么？如果你内心一清二楚，你还需要“下决定”吗？当你看到某个东西是无比危险的，你需要做任何“决定”吗？我们需要做任何决定吗？也就是决定以某种方式去行动，或者不以某种方式去行动？头脑是否有能力去观察思想的整个运动，观察思想的整体、思想的全部，整个思想（the holistic） ——“整个”这个词的意思和“完整”（whole）这个词是一样的。 “完整”（whole）意味着，这个词的词根义就是健康、明智和神圣。那意味着整体的生活，而不只是将生活分成很多部分。
11:52	We are asking: when there is decision there is always resistance. One decides to do something and then there is always the uncertainty whether it's the right thing to do. There is always anxiety that your decision should be made upon something reasoned out, with clarity, which has deep significance. So we are questioning that: whether there is a way of living in daily life, in which there is no decision at all? It's like a tremendous river, a volume of water with great depth, it moves, if there is any obstruction it goes around it, but it is always moving. It's only when there is no total movement of that nature, holistic movement, then there comes decision. Please see this for yourself. We are taking the journey together. I am not talking to myself and you are agreeing or disagreeing, we are thinking this out together very deeply. So please be serious!	我们说：当有了“决定”，就总是会有抵抗。某人决定去做某事，然后总是不确定这件事是否是正确的。总是有着一种焦虑，那就是想要确保你的决定是基于某种理性的，是基于清明的 ——清明具有重大深远的意义。所以我们在质疑：在日常生活中，是否存在一种生活方式，其中是完全没有“任何决定”的？这就像一条巨大的河流，水量充沛、深不见底，它不断流动着，如果有任何的障碍物，它会绕过去，但总是在向前流动着。只有当缺乏了这样一种完全的流动、整体性的运动时，才会出现“决定”。请你自己去看到这一点。我们在一起踏上这场旅行。并不是我一个人对自己讲，然后你表示同意或不同意，我们是在一同非常深刻地思考它。所以请务必认真一些！
13:49	We are going to find out in our examination whether it is possible to live a life where there is a holistic movement, a movement that is whole, non-fragmented. And when there is a movement of such nature there is no necessity for decision at all. And that implies the action of will. What is will? Why do we depend so much on will? I will do this, and I will not do that. This is good, that is bad, that I'll follow, the capacity to exercise will. And we think will is part of freedom, free will, etc. We are going to question all that, together. Because we have questioned everything here, we have questioned all the religious attitudes, we have questioned authority, we have questioned whether human beings can be utterly, totally completely free of fear. And also we have questioned what is love and so on. Because when one accepts, obeys and follows, you end up in uncertainty. But if you begin with uncertainty, that is, you are questioning, doubting, then you end up in certainty. But we unfortunately start the other way.	我们要在我们的检视中去发现是否可能去过这样一种生活，其中有着整体性的运动，那种运动是完整的，没有碎片的。当有了这样一种运动时，就根本不需要再做任何决定了。 “决定”意味着意志的行动。什么是意志？为什么我们如此依赖意志？我一定要这样做，我绝不会那样做。这是好的，那是坏的，所以我要跟随这个好的 ——使用意志的能力。我们认为意志是自由的一部分， “自由意志”，等等这些东西。而我们要一起来质疑这一切。因为我们已经在这里质疑了一切，我们已经质疑了所有的宗教立场，我们已经质疑了权威，我们也问了人类是否能够彻底地、完全地、完整地摆脱恐惧。我们同样也问了什么是爱，等等。因为当你去接受、服从和跟随时，你最后还是会感到不确定。但是如果你是从不确定开始，也就是说，你在提问、怀疑，那么你最后就会得到确定的东西。但不幸的是，我们是从“确定”开始的。
16:31	We are asking what is the nature of will and why is it that human beings depend on that capacity, and give such importance to the man who has strong will? So we are going to ask together: what is the nature and the structure of will? Will is desire, heightened, strengthened by constant exercise of desire. It is the essence of desire, will. And where there is desire there must be illusion. We went into it the other day. And so we are asking whether will in action does not lead to, not only illusion, but to every form of resistance and therefore exclusion, therefore isolation. And is it possible to live a daily life without any kind of will?	我们在问：意志的本质是什么？为什么人类要依赖于那种运用意志的能力，并且如此看重有着坚强意志的人？因此，我们一同来询问：意志的本质和结构是什么？意志就是欲望，通过不断地唤起欲望，意志被加以提升和加强，意志就是欲望的实质。有欲望的地方就必定会有错觉。这点我们前几天探讨过了。所以我们问：行动中的意志是否不仅会导致错觉，还会导致各种形式的抵抗，从而使我们去排斥其他东西，最终变得孤立？我们是否可能去过一种不带任何意志的日常生活？
18:29	We are educated from childhood to the exercise of will. When you are children, you must concentrate, you must obey, you must do this, you cannot do that. And our whole way of life is based on that. And will implies choice. We are carefully reasoning together, logically, sanely, going into this question – we are not asserting anything. We are reasonable people, I hope, serious people, therefore we are capable of examining without any prejudice, conclusion, belief. So we are saying where there is will there is choice, and choice comes about when there is no clarity, both objectively and inwardly. When there is no clarity then the choice begins and I choose to do that, which is the exercise of will, which is the essence of desire. We also went into the question of what is desire. We said desire is the movement of seeing, perception, contact, sensation. And thought makes that sensation into desire, and the image that goes with the desire. I won't go into it, there's no time for all that now. We've explained enough, about what is the nature and the structure of desire. We are questioning what is the necessity of choice, and from choice the exercise of will, and will is the essence of desire. I hope you follow all this. When there is clarity, to see things exactly as they are, not romantically, emotionally, with prejudice, with what you would like it to be, but to see things absolutely as they are, in daily life, brings about an extraordinary quality of clarity. And where there is clarity there is no need for the exercise of will or choice. You see this? See the beauty of it. So one can live in daily life without any kind of will, choice and resistance. If there is something that is an impediment, you go around it, move – like water. So there is – rather interesting, I'm just discovering it – so there is a movement which is likened to water. A river cleanses itself as it moves, but if there is too much pollution dropped in it, it can never clean itself. That is what is happening to us. Society, education, authority – except the authority of the surgeon, doctor and so on, we've discussed that very clearly – the stream is constantly being polluted, our human life, which is really a marvellous stream if there is no pollution. One of the deep causes of this pollution is the lack of clarity. When there is lack of clarity there is choice, will and action, confined to a very narrow field. If you see that, not theoretically, intellectually, or merely through words, but actually have an insight into the nature of this activity of will then that very insight clears away the pollution which is called the will.	我们从小就被教育着去运用意志。当你还是小孩子的时候，你就必须专心，必须服从，你必须这样做，你不能那样做。我们所有的生活方式就是基于此的。而意志意味着选择。我们正在一起小心翼翼地推理，符合逻辑地、理智地去探究这个问题 ——我们没有作出任何断言。我们是理性的人，我希望同时也是认真的人，因此我们能够去检视它，而不带任何的偏见、结论和信仰。所以我们说，当有了意志，就会有选择，而选择之所以出现，是因为我们还不清晰，不管是客观上还是内在，我们都不清晰。当我们没有清明，那么选择就会开始，我选择那样做，而这就是在运用意志了，而意志就是欲望的实质。我们同样也探究了“什么是欲望”的问题。我们说，欲望就是一种包含了看到、感知、接触、感受的运动。而思想将那种感受变成了欲望，以及伴随着那种欲望的想象画面。这点我就不细讲了，现在没那么多时间来展开了。我们已经充分解释了欲望的本质与结构。我们在问：我们需要去选择吗？在选择中，我们会运用自己的意志，而意志就是欲望的实质。我希望你能跟上这一切。当我们有了那份清明，可以如实地去观察事物时 ——不是浪漫地、感情用事地、带着偏见、带着你对它的期望去观察，而是在日常生活中完全如实地观察事物，从而带来一种非凡的清明品质。当有了清明，我们就不需要动用意志或者去选择了。你看到这点了吗？请看到它的美。所以，我们是可以去过一种没有任何意志、选择和抵抗的日常生活的。如果碰到了某个障碍物，你也能够绕过去，继续前行 ——就像那河水一样。所以存在着一种 ——这相当有趣，我也是刚发现—— 有一种可以把它比作为河水的运动。河流会在它流动的时候自我清洁，但如果人们往它里面扔了太多的污染物，它就永远无法自我清洁了。这就是我们身上所发生的事。社会、教育、权威 ——除了主刀医师、医生等等的权威—— 这些东西我们已经讨论得非常清楚了，河流在不断地被污染，我们人类的生活，如果没有污染的话，它其实是一条非常美妙的河流。其中一个深层的污染源就是清明的缺乏。当缺乏清明时，便会有选择、意志以及行动，而它们都局限在一个非常狭小的领域内。如果你认识到这点，不是从理论上、智力上，或者仅仅是文字上理解，而是真正洞察到了这种意志行为的本质时，那么这种洞察本身就会清理掉那些被称为意志的污染。
24:41	We also talked about: when there is clarity, that clarity must go with compassion. You can be very clear intellectually, as most thoughtful, intellectual people are very clear, but their clarity is limited because there is no compassion with it. We went into the nature of compassion. We said compassion comes through the understanding of pleasure – please follow this. Compassion is like a flower that's born, you cannot be compassionate, you cannot cultivate compassion, you cannot cultivate love. But when you understand the nature and the structure of pleasure, whether it is sexual, or the pleasure of a position, a status and so on, the pleasure, the pursuit of pleasure. That pursuit of pleasure is the movement of thought in time. Without understanding pleasure, love becomes a very shoddy little affair. And also we went into where there is suffering, various forms of suffering – which we talked over together the other day – out of that suffering, with the understanding of what love is, compassion is born. That compassion is not mine, or yours. Out of that compassion comes intelligence.	我们同样也谈了：当有了清明，这份清明必须要有一份慈悲相随。你可以在智力上清晰无比，大多数有思想的知识分子都是头脑清楚的，但他们的清明是有限的，因为它没有慈悲相随。我们曾讨论过慈悲的本质。我们说了慈悲是伴随着对快感的了解而出现的 ——请跟上。慈悲就如花朵的开放，你无法“变得”慈悲，你无法去培育慈悲，你也无法去培育爱。然而，当你理解了快感的本质和结构时，不管是性快感，还是地位、身份等等所带来的快感，当你理解了快感，以及对快感的追求时，你会发现对快感的追求是一种处于时间中的思想活动。不了解快感，爱就会变成一件非常卑劣渺小的事情。我们同样也谈到了，当有了痛苦，各种形式的痛苦 ——这点我们前几天一起讨论过了—— 那么从那份痛苦之中，基于对爱的了解，慈悲就会产生。那份慈悲并不属于你我。从那慈悲之中就会诞生出智慧。
26:57	Intelligence cannot operate when there is the activity of will. I wonder if you see this. Will is desire. Desire is not compassion. We've went through this very deeply the other day. So we are asking, taking the journey together, exploring together, whether it is possible to live a life in which the action of will doesn't exist at all, which means effort, the constant effort brought about through the action of will. To have an insight into this is to be free of it completely. And we said to have an insight the mind must be empty, empty of your conclusions, your prejudices, your experiences, your hopes, empty to have an insight from which arises intelligence. We talked about this the other day. So to have an insight into the whole nature and the structure of will and decision, out of which comes this enormous trouble. So there is an ending to effort, struggle, and all the forms of resistance, and escapes and neuroticism, when you understand the nature and the structure of will which is born of choice and effort.	当有了意志的活动时，智慧就无法运作。我不知道你是否看到了这点。意志就是欲望。而欲望不是慈悲。这点我们前几天已经非常深入地探讨过了。所以我们是在一起询问，一起踏上这段旅程，一起探索，是否可能过这样一种生活，其中完全没有意志的行为，意志的行为就是“努力”，那种意志行为所带来的永不停歇的“努力”。如果你洞察到这点，你便可以彻底摆脱它了。而我们说过，要洞察，心灵就必须“清空”，清空你的结论、你的偏见、你的经验、你的希望，清空它们，才能拥有洞察，从这份洞察中便会生出智慧。这个我们前几天已经讨论过了。所以我们要洞察到意志与决定的全部本质和结构 ——正是意志与决定带来了巨大的困扰。所以你结束了那些努力、斗争，各种形式的抵抗、逃避和神经质，因为你理解了意志的本质与结构 ——意志诞生于选择和努力。
28:58	From there we can move to the question of time. We are going into this because it's necessary to understand the whole movement of meditation. Because that word has been ruined, polluted by all the systems, the various forms of assertions by the gurus, they have recently invaded this country, Europe, with this word meditation. One must understand, together, the nature of time. Because for us time is very important, both chronologically as well as psychologically. We are talking over together the psychological movement of time, not the time by the watch. Time by the watch is absolutely necessary, otherwise you and I wouldn't be here at 10.30. Or if you want to catch a bus and so on, such time, chronological time is necessary. But we are going to investigate together, and we mean together, what is psychological time upon which we depend so enormously.	从这里，我们就可以开始探讨关于时间的问题。我们要探讨这个问题，因为需要先搞清楚它，才能了解冥想的整个运动。 “冥想”这个词已经被所有那些宗教体系、被那些宗教领袖各种形式的断言所糟蹋和污染了，这些宗教领袖如今已经遍布于这个国家，遍布于欧洲各国，靠的就是“冥想”这个招牌。我们也必须一同来了解时间的本质。因为对我们而言，时间是非常重要的，不管是钟表上的时间，还是心理上的时间。我们正在一起讨论的是那种心理上的时间运动，而不是钟表上的时间。钟表上的时间是绝对需要的，否则你我不可能准时十点半在这里会面。或者如果你要赶公共汽车，等等，这种时间，钟表上的时间是必需的。但我们要一同来探究的是 ——我们是说“一起”—— 那种我们无比依赖的心理上的时间是什么。
31:22	Surely time is movement. That's very simple. From here to there, both chronologically as well as psychologically. A distance to be covered, a distance between what is and what should be. The distance: to arrive at a goal, at a purpose, requires time. If one wants to learn a language that requires time. Perhaps we have brought over from the learning of something which requires time, into the field of the psyche. We need time to learn any technique, to drive a car, to learn a language, to understand and work the electronics and so on, you need a great deal of time, to fly an aeroplane. That same attitude has been brought over into the psychological field: we need time to be perfect, we need time to get over something, we need time to be free of our anxiety, to be free of our sorrow, to be free of our fear and so on. See what we have done. Where time is necessary, which is in the field of technology, that need has been introduced into the psychological world and we have accepted it, for all nations to wipe away their nationalities needs time, to become brotherly we need time and so on. Now we are questioning that – together. We are questioning whether there is any psychological time at all. Because psychological time implies hope, the world is mad, let's hope in the future there will be a sane world. So we are questioning together whether there is an action which is not involved in time at all. We are meeting together? Action brought about by a cause, by a motive, needs time. Action which has a pattern of memory, and to put that pattern into action needs time. If you have an ideal, however noble, however beautiful, romantic, etc. however nonsensical even, it needs time to arrive at that idealistic state. So to arrive at that, destroy the present. It doesn't matter what happens to you, what is important is the future. For the sake of the marvellous future, sacrifice yourself. And that future is established by the ideologists, Marx, Engels, etc., all the religious teachers and so on, throughout the world.	毫无疑问，时间是运动。这是很好理解的。从这里到那里，不管是钟表上还是心理上，有那么一段需要跨越的距离， “现状”和“应该怎样”之间的距离。那种距离就是：去达到一个目标，达到一个目的，这需要时间。如果你想学习一门语言，这需要你花时间。而或许我们已经把这种需要时间的学习带入到了心理的领域。我们需要时间来学习某项技能，学习开车，学习一门语言，了解和运用电子设备，等等，你需要大量的时间才能学会开飞机。然而，这种同样的态度也被带入到了心理领域中：我们需要时间来变得完美，我们需要时间来克服某些困难，我们需要时间来摆脱我们的焦虑，摆脱我们的悲伤，摆脱我们的恐惧，等等。看看我们都做了些什么。时间在技术领域是必需的，而这种需要也被引入到了心理世界中，而我们对此欣然接受了，各个国家都需要时间来扫除掉他们的国家主义，我们需要时间才能拥有手足情谊，等等。而现在，我们正在一起质疑这一点。我们在质疑究竟有没有任何心理上的时间。因为心理上的时间意味着一种希望，这个世界如此疯狂，我们希望未来会有一个健康理智的世界。所以我们在一同询问，是否存在一种行动是完全不涉及时间的。我们彼此心领神会了吗？当行动是由一个原因、一个动机所引起的，这种行动就需要时间。依照记忆中的模式而来的行动，启动那个模式就需要时间。如果你有一个理想，不管这个理想是多么高尚、美好、浪漫等等，甚至是多么荒谬，你都需要时间才能达到那种理想状态。所以为了达到它，你就毁掉了当下。无论你现在发生了什么都不重要，重要的是未来。为了那美好的未来，牺牲你自己吧。而那种未来是由那些思想家所制定的，马克思、恩格斯，等等，所有那些遍布世界的宗教导师等等。
36:31	So we are questioning that, whether there is any psychological time at all, and therefore – please go into this very carefully – no hope. Dante in his Inferno said, 'Those who enter here have no hope.' We are questioning this. This is a very serious thing. Please don't come to any conclusion yet, what shall I do if I have no hope? Hope is so important because that gives you satisfaction, energy, drive, to achieve something.	所以我们正在质疑这点：究竟有没有心理上的时间？因此——请你小心地探究——也无所谓“希望”。但丁在他的《地狱篇》中说过， “那些进入这里的人，不再心怀希望。” 而我们在质疑这点。这是一件非常严肃的事情。请暂且不要下任何结论，如果我心里没有任何希望，那么我该怎么做？希望是如此的重要，因为它带给你满足、力量、动力，让你去完成某些事情。
37:32	Now when you look closely, non-sentimentally, logically, is there psychological time at all? There is psychological time only when you move away from what is. You are getting this? There is psychological time when one realises one is violent, and one proceeds to enquire how to be free of it, that movement away from what is, is time. But after investigation and so on, if one is totally completely aware of what is, then there is no time. I wonder if you see this. Do you ?	然而，当你密切地观察，不带情感，理性地去观察，究竟是否存在心理上的时间？只有当你逃离“真实现状”时，才会有心理上的时间。你明白了吗？心理上的时间之所以存在，是因为人意识到他是暴力的，然后他开始询问如何摆脱这种暴力，这种逃离“真实现状”的运动就是时间。然而，在经过探究等等以后，如果我们完全彻底地觉察到了自己的“现状”，那么就不会有时间了。我不知道你有没有看到这一点。你看到了吗？
38:51	Most of us are violent. Violence is not only hitting somebody physically, anger, jealousy, acceptance of authority, conformity, imitation, accepting the edicts of another, all those are forms of violence. And human beings are violent. That is the fact, violence. The very word condemns it. I don't know if you see it. The very usage of the word violence, by that usage you've already condemned violence. See the intricacies of this. So being violent and not being capable, or negligent, or lazy, we move away from it and invent ideological non-violence. That is time: the movement from what is to what should be. That time comes to an end completely when there is only what is, which is non-verbal identification with what is. I'm just finding it out.	我们大多数人都是暴力的。暴力并不仅仅是揍别人一顿，愤怒、嫉妒、接受权威、遵从、模仿、接受他人的命令，这一切都是暴力的形式。人类就是暴力的。这是一个事实，暴力。 “暴力”这个词本身就蕴含了对暴力的谴责。我不知道你是否看到了这一点。当你使用“暴力”这个词时，你就已经在谴责暴力了。请看到这其中的复杂之处。所以我们是暴力的，而因为我们无力去处理它，或者因为漫不经心、懒惰，于是我们逃离它，并且发明了“非暴力”的理想。这就是时间：从“实际现状”到“应该怎样”的运动。然而，当只存在“实际现状”时，那种时间就会彻底停止，但并不是让你口头上去和“实际现状”相认同。我只是想要把它搞清楚。
40:44	There is anger, which is a form of violence, or hatred, jealousy. The word anger, the word jealousy, hate, in themselves are condemnatory. When one sees one is angry and says, I have been angry, that verbalisation of a reaction strengthens the reaction. I wonder if you see that. Do you? I am angry. When I say, I am angry, it is I have recognised from the past angers the present anger, so I am using the word anger which is the past, and identifying with that word the present. So the word becomes extraordinarily important. But if there is no usage of that word but only the fact, the reaction, then there is no strengthening of that feeling.	愤怒就是暴力的一种形式，仇恨、嫉妒也是。愤怒、嫉妒、仇恨，这些词本身就带有谴责意味。当我们发现自己很愤怒时，我们就会说：我发火了，这种对某种反应的“文字化”就加强了那种反应。我不知道你是否明白了。明白了吗？我很愤怒。当我说：我很愤怒，这说明我经由过去的愤怒而识别出了此刻的愤怒，所以我在使用“愤怒”这个词——这个词是属于过去的—— 并将此刻的感觉与这个词相等同。所以词语变得极其重要。然而如果你不使用那个词，只留下那个事实、那个反应，那么你就不会强化那种感受。
42:12	Where am I?	我说到哪里了？
42:16	So, we are saying that it is possible to live psychologically without tomorrow. I love you, I shall meet you tomorrow. Which is the remembrance of that affection, or whatever it is, in memory and projected tomorrow. See the importance of all this. So that there is an activity without time at all. Love is not time. Love is not a remembrance. If it is, it is not love, obviously. I loved you because you gave me sex, or you gave me food, or you flattered me, or you said, I need a companion, I am lonely therefore I need you, all that is not love surely? When you are jealous, when there is anxiety or hatred, that's not love. So then what is love? Love is obviously a state of mind in which there is no verbalisation, no remembrance, but an immediate fact.	所以我们说，我们是可能没有心理上的“明天”而生活的。我爱你，我明天还要再见你。那是记忆中对这种感情或者无论什么东西的回忆被投射到了明天。请看到这一切的重要性。所以存在着一种完全没有时间的活动。爱不是时间。爱不是一种记忆。如果它是，那么显然那就不是爱。我爱你是因为你能跟我上床，或者你能养我，或者你让我很开心，或者你说：我需要一个伴侣，我很孤独，所以我需要你，然而这一切毫无疑问都不是爱。当你在爱中感到嫉妒、焦虑或怨恨时，那并不是爱。那么，什么是爱呢？很显然，爱是一种没有语言文字的心灵状态，一种没有回忆而只有当下事实的心灵状态。
44:00	So it is possible through very careful examination, observing, which is totally different from analysis, we went into that, there is no time now. My goodness, there is so much to talk about. So there is a way of living in daily life where time as movement from this to that, has gone. Do you know what that means, what happens when you do that? You have an extraordinary vitality, an extraordinary sense of clarity. You are then only dealing with facts, not with ideas. But as most of us are imprisoned in ideas and we have accepted that as the way of life, it's very difficult to break away from that. But to have an insight into it, then it's finished.	所以我们是可能通过非常仔细的检视、观察——这和分析是截然不同的，这个我们已经探讨过了，现在没时间再展开了。我的天啊，要谈的东西太多了。所以，有这样一种日常生活的方式，其中时间作为从“这”到“那”的运动完全消失了。你知道那意味着什么吗？当你这么做时会发生什么？你会拥有非凡的活力，一种非凡的清明感。那时你只处理事实，而不是观念。但因为我们大多数人都囚禁于观念之中，我们已经接受了它作为我们的生活方式，所以要挣脱它是非常困难的。但如果你能洞察到这点，那么它便结束了。
45:09	Then there is the question of space. I think, if one may point out, it is very important to understand this. When we talk about space, we conceive space, or look at space from an object. But to look, to observe space, or to be aware of space without the object, and therefore without the subject. You understand this? Please look at it, let's go slowly into this. Because our minds are so cluttered up, with knowledge, with worries, with problems, with money, with position, prestige, so burdened, there is no space at all – right ? – and without space there is no order. We are asking: what is space? Look: we are sitting here and we know the space of the tent. From a centre, observe, or observe without the centre. Which means, to observe without the centre implies non-verbalisation. This becomes too difficult for all of you. May I go on? You are sure?	然后还有关于空间的问题。如果我可以指出的话，我认为了解这个问题是非常重要的。当我们谈到空间时，我们是从一个客体的视角去设想那个空间或者观察那个空间的。然而，你要去看、去观察那个空间，或者去感知那个空间，但没有“客体”，从而也没有那个“主体”的存在。你理解吗？请看一下，让我们慢慢地来探讨。因为我们的头脑是如此的杂乱无章，塞满了各种东西：知识、忧虑、各种问题、金钱、地位、声望，它是如此的不堪重负，它已经没有任何空间了， ——对吗？—— 而没有空间，就不会有秩序。我们问：什么是空间？你看，我们正坐在这儿，我们知道帐篷里的空间。从我们自己这个中心出发，去观察，或者不带着那个中心去观察。没有中心地去观察意味着不加以文字化。这对你们所有人来说都太难了。我可以继续吗？你确定？
47:46	Space implies no direction. When I look at this valley from a height, and if there is a direction, which is, I want to see where I live, then I lose the vast space. Just see the sanity of it. So where there is direction there is no space. Where there is a purpose, a goal, something to be achieved, there is no space. Look at it, don't agree. Look at yourself. If I have a purpose in life and for which I am living, concentrating, where is the space? I have very little space. Whereas if there is no direction, there is vast space. You look at it, go into it. You will see it yourself.	空间意味着没有方向。当我站在高处去观察这个山谷时，如果我有一个观察的方向，也就是，如果我想看看我住在哪，那么我就错过那整片广阔的空间了。看看这是多么合情合理的事。所以当有了方向，就没有空间了。当有了一个目的、目标，某个要达到的东西，那么就不会有空间了。去观察，不要同意我。去看看你自己。如果我的生活中有了一个目标，我为这个目标而活，我专注于它，那么我的空间在哪里？我几乎就没什么空间了。但是，如果我没有什么方向，就有了无比广阔的空间。请你观察它，探究它，然后你会自己看到这一点。
49:05	So, where there is an object, a centre, and from that centre we look, then space is very limited. When there is no centre, no object, no structure of the me put together by thought, there is vast space. And without space as we said, there is no order, there is no clarity, there is no compassion. Because our lives are very limited, enclosed, and to break that enclosure we do all kinds of things.	所以，当有了一个客体、一个中心，并且我们从这个中心出发去观察时，那么我们的空间就会变得非常有限。然而当没有了中心，没有了客体，也没有了由思想拼凑起来的那个“我”的结构时，那么便会有广阔的空间。而没有我们所说的那种空间，就不会有秩序，不会有清明，也不会有慈悲。因为我们的生活是非常有限的、封闭的，而我们千方百计地要去突破那种封闭。
50:09	So where there is resistance there is no space. Where there is a centre from which you are acting, there is no space. Where there is a direction, a motive, an end in view, there is no space. But space is necessary. Space is necessary because – the word because implies cause, remove it. It is necessary to have space. When there is space you can observe very clearly. From the top of a mountain on a clear day you see everything, the beauty of the whole valley, the mountains, the clarity. But our minds are so heavily conditioned, so heavily burdened, there is no space. Now, to have an insight into it. To see how important it is to have space.	所以，有抵抗的地方就不会有空间。当你有了一个中心，并且从这个中心出发去行动，那就没有空间了。当有了一个方向、一个动机，一个你所希望的目标时，就不会有空间。然而，空间是必需的。空间是必需的，因为 ——“因为”这个词意味着有个起因，还是不用它了。我们必须要有空间。当有了空间，你就可以观察得非常清楚。如果天气晴朗，你站在山顶就可以俯瞰一切，看到整个山谷与山峦的美丽，看得一清二楚。但我们的心灵是如此的深受局限，如此的不堪重负，以至于没有空间了。现在，你要去洞察它。看看拥有空间是多么的重要。
51:42	From there we can go on into the question of meditation. But without understanding all that, that is, the freedom from all authority, that is, freedom from all psychological authority, to be completely free psychologically of any imposition by another. There is no guru, no teacher and therefore you have to be completely and totally a light to yourself. And we said every human being is the representative of all humanity. Then when he is a light to himself he lights the world, lights the rest of humanity.	从这里出发，我们就可以探讨冥想的问题了。但是如果不了解这一切，也就是，不了解那种摆脱了所有权威的自由，摆脱所有心理上权威的自由，从心理上彻底地摆脱掉任何他人的强加之物。没有宗教领袖，没有导师，因此你必须彻底地、完全地做自己的明灯照亮自己。我们说过，每一个人都代表着全人类。因此，当他照亮了自己时，他就照亮了这个世界，照亮了别人。
53:00	And we said there is no possibility of meditation, and the depth of it, the beauty of it, the greatness of it, when there is any form of fear, obviously. Fear distorts, fear clouds the mind. And also we said if we do not understand the nature and the structure of pleasure then you turn meditation into an act of pleasure, and pursue that pleasure through various practices, the Zen, the various systems, methods, etc. Because that is still the pursuit of pleasure, to be gained at the end. And we said the pursuit of pleasure is the movement of thought. Thought is memory, stored up in the brain as knowledge and experience. And the response of memory is thought. Thought is time, not the chronological time only but the whole nature of time psychologically.	我们也说了，想要让冥想、让冥想的深度、美与伟大成为可能，就不能有任何形式的恐惧，这是显而易见的事。恐惧会造成扭曲，恐惧使心灵黯淡。同样，我们说了，如果我们不了解快感的本质与结构，就会把冥想变成一种带来快感的行为，你会通过各种练习去追求那种快感，通过禅宗、各种体系、各种方法等等。因为那些仍旧是在追求快感，修炼到最后获得某种快感。我们说过，追求快感是思想的运动。思想就是记忆，这些记忆以知识和经验的形式储存在大脑中。而对那些记忆的反应就是思想。思想就是时间，不仅仅是日历上的时间，也包括所有心理上的时间。
54:28	So, there must be compassion, clarity, skill. After that we can examine, go into the question of meditation, knowing or living where there is no effort, where there is no action of will, where there is tremendous space. Then what is meditation? We said, from the beginning of these talks until now, all that is part of meditation. If you have not taken the journey deeply together you cannot go into this very deeply, you can superficially talk about it, but you cannot really understand or live the greatness of meditation. Which is not that you 'must' meditate. The idea to determine to meditate is the most absurd action. I 'will' meditate, spend twenty minutes in the morning, twenty minutes in the afternoon, twenty minutes in the evening, that's a siesta. It's nothing else but absurd nonsense.	所以，我们必须要有慈悲、清明和技能。这样我们才能去检视、去探究关于冥想、认识或生活的问题，那种没有努力的生活，没有意志的行为，其中有着巨大空间的生活。那么，什么是冥想呢？我们说了，从最开始的演讲直到现在，所有的这些探讨都是冥想的一部分。如果你没有一起深入地参与到这场旅行中来，你就无法非常深入地去探究它了，你可以肤浅地去谈论一下它，但是，你是无法真正地理解或经历那种冥想的宏伟的。这不是说你“必须”去冥想。 “决定去冥想”是最愚蠢的行为。我“将会”去冥想，早上冥想二十分钟，下午冥想二十分钟，晚上再冥想二十分钟，那只是一种休息放松而已。那完全是无稽之谈。
56:12	But understanding the nature of all this, and in that understanding comes great beauty, not only the observation of the beauty of the mountains, the hills, the rivers and the nature, but also the beauty of a person, whether it be a man or a woman, the beauty. Beauty exists only when there is no me. Not the beauty of a picture painted by a most well-known artist, painter, or by Michelangelo, etc. You may look at it, go to a museum and observe it, see the lines, the colours, the shapes, how it is grouped together, etc. But when there is no me there is beauty and you need not go to any museum. And that's part of meditation, to see the enormous greatness of beauty.	然而，如果你了解了这一切的实质，那么在这份了解中，就会生出无限的美，不仅仅是观察山峦之美，观察那些群山、河流与自然之美，同样也去观察一个人的美，不管是男人还是女人，去看到他们的美。只有当没有了“我”，美才会存在。不是某幅画的美 ——一幅由某个大名鼎鼎的艺术家、画家或米开朗基罗等人所画的作品。你也可以去欣赏它，去博物馆看看它，看看画中的线条、色彩和形状，它是如何将这些元素组合在一起的，等等。然而，只有当“我”不复存在时，美才会产生，那时你就不需要再去任何博物馆了。而这也是冥想的一部分：看到那无限浩瀚的美。
57:43	So, what is then meditation? We have only dealt with the waves: authority, fear, the waves on the surface of an ocean. Now, if you have gone so far, we are going into the depth of the ocean. We have only dealt with the superficiality of it all. Of course you must understand it, be free of it, know how to dive deeply – not you dive, that comes about.	那么，什么是冥想呢？我们之前对付的仅仅是那些波浪：权威、恐惧，海面上的那些波浪。而现在，如果之前的东西你都已经理解了，那么我们就要进入到海洋的深处了。我们之前处理的都只是它表面的东西。当然了，你必须了解表面的东西，摆脱它，由此你才会知道如何潜入深处 ——不是你潜入了深处，而是深处的事物自然浮现了。
58:27	First of all, there is a difference between concentration,	首先，这三个东西是不同的：专注、
58:40	choiceless awareness	无选择的觉察
58:42	and attention. Are you all tired? I'm afraid there is no other talk so please pay attention to this. There will be a discussion on Wednesday, five dialogues between us. But if you are tired, it doesn't matter, don't listen. Don't make an effort to listen because that's a waste. There are these three things which we must understand: concentration, choiceless awareness and attention. Concentration implies resistance, concentration on a particular thing, on the page you are reading, or on the phrase you are trying to understand, to concentrate, to put all your energy in a particular direction. That's one thing. I needn't enlarge that, need I? In that concentration there is resistance and therefore there is effort and division. I want to concentrate, thought goes off on something else, I bring it back. The fight. And if you love something you concentrate very easily. All that is implied in the word concentrate, to put your mind on a particular object, or a particular picture, a particular action. That's one thing. Choiceless awareness implies to be aware both objectively, outside, and inwardly, without any choice. Just to be aware of the colours, of the tent, of the trees, the mountains, the nature, just to be aware. Not choose, say, I like this, I don't like that, I want this, I don't want that. To observe without the observer. The observer is the past, which is conditioned, therefore he is always looking from that conditioned point of view, therefore there is like and dislike, my race, your race, my god, your god, etc. We are saying to be aware implies to observe the whole environment around you, the mountains, the trees, the ugly walls, the towns, aware, look at it. And in that observation there is no decision, no will, no choice. You understand it? And attention, concentration, choiceless awareness and attention. In attending there is no centre. You are completely attending. Are you now, if I may ask, attending to what is being said? If you are completely, totally attending there is no you who is attending, is there? If you are listening completely with your heart and with your blood, everything, there is no me attending. There is no me which limits that attention. Then attention is limitless. Therefore attention then has complete space. Attention there is not directed. Whereas concentration is, therefore it limits space.	和注意。你们累了吗？我恐怕这是最后一次演讲了，所以请你注意听。周三会有一场讨论会，我们会进行五次讨论。如果你感到累了，没关系，不听便是了。不要费劲地听，因为那是一种浪费。有三件事情是我们必须了解的：专注、无选择的觉察、注意。专注意味着抵抗，专注于某个特定事物，专注于你在看的书，或者专注于某一句你努力想要理解的话，专注就是将你全部的能量倾注在某个特定的方向上。这就是专注。我不需要再展开讲了，对吗？然而在那份专注中，存在着抵抗，因此就会有努力和分裂。我想要聚精会神，思想却游离到别处去了，而我要将思绪收回来。斗争就发生了。可如果你喜爱这件事情，保持专注就很容易了。这一切都蕴含在“专注”这个词语中，将你的头脑集中于某个特定的对象上，集中在某一幅画或某个特定的行动上。这是其一。无选择的觉察则意味着外在和内在都去客观地觉知，而没有任何选择。只是去觉知你眼前的色彩，觉知这个帐篷，觉知树木，觉知到群山和大自然，只是保持觉知。没有选择，不说：我喜欢这个，我不喜欢那个，我想要这个，我不想要那个。去观察，但没有一个“观察者”。观察者就是过去，他是局限的，因此他总是从那个局限的观点来看待事物，于是便有了喜欢和不喜欢，我的民族、你的民族，我的上帝、你的上帝，等等。我们说，觉察就意味着去观察你周围的整个环境，山川、树木、丑陋的围墙、城镇，去觉知，去观察它。在那种观察中是没有“决定”、没有意志、没有选择的。你理解了吗？然后是“注意”，讲过了专注和无选择的觉察，我们来讲讲“注意”。在“注意”的状态下是没有一个中心的。你在全神贯注。如果允许我问一下，你在“注意”着我所说的话吗？如果你完全地、彻底地在注意着，那么就不会有一个正在注意的“你”，对吗？如果你是全身心地投入，在全然地聆听着一切，就不存在那个在注意的“我”了。不会有一个在限制那种“注意”的“我”。那时的“注意”就是无局限的。那时的“注意”就有着完整的空间。那种“注意”是没有方向的。而“专注”是有方向的，因而限制了空间。
1:03:28	So we have to go into this very deeply and see if you have it. After understanding all the waves on the surface, fear, authority, they're all petty little affairs compared to what we are going into. So the mind then, because insight implies emptiness, emptying the whole of the consciousness of its content, emptying, which is not through action of will, which is not through desire, which is not through choice, but seeing the nature of consciousness, your consciousness, not mine, your consciousness, with its content: fear, anxiety, my country, your country, I must be good – the content of it – sorrow, longing, loneliness, the ache of that loneliness, separation, conflict, all that is the content of your consciousness. And the content makes consciousness. Without the content there is no consciousness, you understand? Now we are saying, when you have an insight into all this, naturally then comes about the emptying of the content. Therefore consciousness then is totally different, it's of a totally different dimension.	所以我们必须深入探究它们，看看你是否领会了。在了解了所有那些表面的波浪以后，也就是恐惧、权威，它们和我们即将谈到的东西比起来，真的是一些琐碎渺小的东西。在了解了那些以后，此时的心灵，因为洞察意味着“清空”， “清空”意识所有的内容，这种“清空”不是经由意志的行为而来的，也不是通过欲望或选择，而是因为你看清了意识的实质，是你的意识，不是我的意识，是你的意识连同它的内容：恐惧、焦虑、我的国家、你的国家、我必须做个好人——这些都是你意识的内容，还有悲伤、渴望、孤独、那种孤独的痛苦、分离、冲突，这一切都是你意识的内容。正是这些内容组成了意识。没有这些内容，就没有意识，你明白吗？而我们在说的是，当你洞察到这些，那些内容自然就被清空了。因此，那时的意识将会变得截然不同，它是处于一个完全不同的维度的。
1:05:25	Meditation then is, because there is space, because there is emptiness, there is total silence, not induced silence, not practised silence, which are all just movement of thought and therefore absolutely worthless, but when you have gone through all this, and there is great delight in going through all this, it's like playing a tremendous game, then in that total silence there is a movement which is timeless, which is not measured by thought because thought has no place in it whatsoever. And therefore, there is something totally sacred, timeless. May I go?	那时便有了冥想，因为那时有了空间，因为那时一切被“清空”了，有了完全的寂静，这种寂静不是人为诱发的，也不是通过练习而来的，那些“寂静”都只是思想的活动，因此毫无价值，而当你彻底审视了这一切 ——这其中有着无比的乐趣，就像是在玩一场了不得的游戏—— 那么，在那种完全的寂静中，就会有一种永恒的运动，这种运动是思想无法衡量的，因为它里面并没有思想的一席之地。因此，便会有某种完全神圣的事物，一种永恒的事物。我可以走了吗？