Krishnamurti Subtitles
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SA78D4 - 持续不断的努力会损伤大脑
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| 0:26 What shall we talk about? | 0:26 克里希那穆提（以下简称“克”）：我们要来谈点什么呢？ |
| 0:30 Questioner: Could you say something about the healing energies, the benediction? | 0:30 提问者：你能否谈一下 那种疗愈的能量、那种“赐福”？ |
| 0:34 K: Could you talk something about healing, laying on hands. | 0:34 克：你能否来谈一下「疗愈」、按手祈祷。 |
| 0:43 Q: No, the benediction that you speak about in your book, the healing energies. | 0:43 提问者：不是，是你在你的著作中 所谈到的「赐福」， 那种疗愈的能量。 |
| 0:50 K: Oh, not laying on hands but the benediction that I’m talking about. Anything else? | 0:50 克：噢，不是按手祈祷， 而是我所谈过的那种「赐福」。 还有其他问题吗？ |
| 0:59 Q: Is it enough if I, myself, change when others, who are mighty, set the conditions? For example, I’m a teacher and I want to teach in my way, but it is not possible in the long run. How do I have to go necessarily into conflict with the school system? | 0:59 提问者：我自己改变，这就够了吗？ 因为其他那些有权有势的人 还是会设置制约的。 举个例子，我是一个老师， 我想要用自己的方式来教学， 然而从长远来看，这是不可能的。 我必然会与学校的制度发生冲突， 那么我该怎么办呢？ |
| 1:25 K: I’m a teacher. I would like to change myself, fundamentally, and in the long run it has very little effect on the students. Is that it, sir? | 1:25 克：我是一个老师。 我想要改变我自己——从根本上改变自己， 然而从长期来看， 这对学生们并没有什么效果。 是这个问题吗，先生？ |
| 1:42 Q: No, the system, the school system is the problem – to teach, like I want to. | 1:42 提问者：不，是制度， 学校的制度才是问题所在 ——我想要按照我喜欢的方式去教学。 |
| 1:47 K: The whole school system, the environment prevents it. Now, just a minute. All right, sir. | 1:47 克：但整个学校制度、整个环境都会阻止它。 好了，稍等一下。先这样吧，先生。 |
| 1:55 Q: Je peux parler Français? | 1:55 提问者：（法语）我可以讲法语吗？ |
| 1:59 K: Oui. Parlez en Français. | 1:59 克：（法语）可以，请用法语说吧。 |
| 2:02 Q: Je voudrais savoir ce que vous pensez des techniques de méditation basées sur la lumière, la musique, le verbe, etc. | 2:02 提问者：我想要知道你对于 基于光、音乐、咒语等等的冥想方法 是怎么看的？ |
| 2:11 K: What do you think of the meditation in the centre of the eye, hearing music and all that kind of thing? Allez-y madame? | 2:11 克：你是怎么看待 以视觉为核心的冥想方法、 聆听音乐的冥想方法， 等等诸如此类的事情的？ （法语）这位夫人，您请说？ |
| 2:27 Q: I can see that you live over there, and I would like to meet you very much but… | 2:27 提问者：我可以看到你就住在那个地方， 我非常想要和你私下见面，但是 |
| 2:39 K: I have something which I would like to talk over with you personally but it seems rather difficult to talk to you, individually. | 2:39 克：（这位夫人说）我有一些东西 想要和你私下聊聊， 但想要单独与你谈话 似乎是一件相当困难的事。 |
| 2:48 Now, may I say something about that, so that we can finish with that? I used to see lots of people, individually, I don’t know how many thousands I have seen all my life, but I’m afraid I’m not doing that any more because I haven’t got time, or after I have talked for an hour and a half, all my energy is gone, and I have other things to do. So, you if will forgive me, I’m not seeing, individually, anyone. | 2:48 现在，我能否就这件事先说几句， 从而结束掉这个问题？ 我过去曾经和许多人单独会面， 我的一生已经见过好几千人了 ——具体数量我不太清楚， 但我恐怕我不会再这么做了， 因为我没有时间， 或者说，在我与对方交谈了一个半小时以后， 我的能量便耗尽了， 而我还有其他的事情要做。 所以还请你原谅我， 因为我不会再单独会见任何人了。 |
| 3:21 Q: So, you are not interested. | 3:21 提问者：所以说你对这事儿没兴趣了。 |
| 3:27 K: Al contrio. I mean, the lady says, ‘You’re not interested.’ I’m sorry, that’s not the reason. If I was not interested, I wouldn’t be speaking here. | 3:27 克：（意大利语）恰恰相反，我的意思是：这位夫人说， “你对这事儿没兴趣了”。 我很遗憾，因为原因并不是这个。 如果我已经没兴趣了， 我就不会在这里演讲了。 |
| 3:43 Q: Pouvez vous parler de la peur physique? | 3:43 提问者：（法语）你可以谈谈生理上的恐惧吗？ |
| 3:49 K: Can you talk about physical pain, physical suffering? | 3:49 克：你可以谈谈生理上的疼痛、 生理上的痛苦吗？ |
| 3:57 Q: (Inaudible) | 3:57 提问者：（听不见的声音） |
| 4:37 K: I’m afraid I can’t understand what you’re saying, sir. | 4:37 克：先生，我恐怕我无法听懂 你在说什么。 |
| 5:18 Q: He says – this gentleman – in your talks, there are two different elements, one is observation, awareness, and the other is the question you ask which you call, yourself, ‘impossible questions.’ | 5:18 提问者：这位先生，他说的是 在你的演讲中，存在着两种不同的元素， 一种是「观察」、「觉察」， 另一种是你所问的问题 ——你会把它们称为“不可能的问题”。 |
| 5:39 K: I haven’t understood the question, sir. | 5:39 克：我没听明白这个问题，先生。 |
| 5:47 Q: Then he asks, what’s the relationship between these two points? | 5:47 提问者：然后他问：这两点之间有什么关系？ |
| 5:51 K: Between what two points? | 5:51 克：哪两点之间？ |
| 5:53 Q: Observation and impossible questions – what you call, yourself, ‘impossible questions.’ | 5:53 提问者：「观察」和「不可能的问题」之间 ——你所谓的“不可能的问题”。 |
| 6:03 Q: The impossible question. | 6:03 提问者：不可能的问题。 |
| 6:11 K: Don’t ask impossible questions on a hot day! I don’t understand the question. Perhaps, we’ll go into it as we go along with other questions, if I may. | 6:11 克：请别在一个大热天问“不可能的问题”了！ 我不太理解这个问题。 也许在我们继续探讨其他问题的时候， 我们会触及到这个问题 ——如果允许我这么做的话。 |
| 6:34 Q: (Inaudible) | 6:34 提问者：（听不见的声音） |
| 6:51 Q: She’s saying, what is doubt and why are we suffering when we have to choose? | 6:51 提问者：她在问：什么是「怀疑」？ 以及为什么当我们必须要选择的时候， 我们就会感到痛苦？ |
| 7:07 K: What is doubt and why is it that we suffer when we choose? | 7:07 克：什么是「怀疑」，以及…… 为什么当我们选择时，我们就会痛苦？ |
| 7:16 Q: I have one question, too. Can a person who has an innocent mind meet at the same time and at the same level with a person who has a damaged brain? | 7:16 提问者：我这边也有一个问题。 一个拥有纯真心灵的人， 他是否能够在同一时间、同一层次上 理解那个大脑受损的人？ |
| 7:30 K: How can one meet another human being, if one is somewhat sane, the other is not? It seems to me that is our problem! You may all be very sane and I may not! I may be… So, that is the problem. | 7:30 如果一个人多多少少是心智健全的， 而另一个人却不是， 那么他要如何才能理解另一个人呢？ 在我看来，这就是我们现在的问题！ 你们也许都是心智非常健全的人， 而我可能不是！ 我可能是…… 所以，这就是问题所在。 |
| 8:15 So, what shall we talk about this morning, apart from several questions about meditation, seeing lights and all that, visions, physical health, how to meet people who are, perhaps, not so neurotic as oneself and so on. | 8:15 那么，我们今天早上要来讨论些什么呢， ——除了这几个问题之外：即关于冥想 ——凝视光源等等，视觉上的冥想， 生理健康， 以及如何去理解那些 也许不像自己那么神经质的人 等等。 |
| 8:45 Q: You also love to escape. | 8:45 提问者：你同样也喜欢逃避。 |
| 8:51 K: The question is, I like to escape. From what? | 8:51 克：她的问题是：我喜欢逃避。 逃避什么东西呢？ |
| 8:55 Q: From me. | 8:55 提问者：逃避我。 |
| 8:59 K: From you! | 8:59 克：逃避你吗！ |
| 9:02 Q: Laughing, laughing, laughing – you stupid fools! | 9:02 提问者：笑吧，笑吧，笑吧 ——你们这群愚蠢的傻瓜！ |
| 9:10 K: Comment, madame? | 9:10 克：你说什么，夫人？ |
| 9:12 Q: These people are incredible fools, incredible! | 9:12 提问者：这些人真是蠢到极点了， 蠢得令人难以置信！ |
| 9:17 K: I agree. | 9:17 克：我同意。 |
| 9:33 May I ask a question, perhaps it may include the other questions. And I’m not imposing my question over yours but may I ask a question? May I? | 9:33 我可以问一个问题吗， 这个问题也许就包含了其他的问题。 我并没有在把我的问题 强加于你们的问题之上， 但我是否可以问一个问题？ 我可以吗？ |
| 10:00 I’m sure we must have asked ourselves, not in the words I am putting them in but a very fundamental question, which is, how can one keep a brain that is constantly renewing itself – you understand my question? – that is constantly not deteriorating, not getting old, not getting senile, but that doesn’t damage itself, that doesn’t allow itself to be damaged, that has a quality of constant youthfulness – the brain, not sexually and all that kind of stuff. Is this an important question to any of you? Not because I’m asking. I’m asking if it is important to each one of us, whether it possible as one grows older and older and older to have a brain that is fresh, young, undamaged, free, so as to have a mind that is quick, not only quick in thought but in action? 12:06 After all, youth means decision and action. It may be a foolish decision and foolish action, but as one grows older, there is always the deteriorating factor not only biologically, physiologically but also in the brain. Would that interest any of you to find out whether it is possible to have a brain, though that brain is very, very, very old, millennia, thousands of years old, can that brain in spite of its age, in spite of all its experiences, the accumulated burdens of knowledge, can that brain be ever, if I can use the word ‘young,’ you will understand what I mean – not young in the sense, foolish, not in the sense dull, heavy and so on and so on. 13:46 Shall we discuss that? Would that be of interest to any of you? Please, I’m not asking you to be interested in it. I’m just asking – as you ask a question of me, I’m asking you a question. | 10:00 我确信我们肯定曾经问过自己这个问题 ——不是用我的这种言辞来表述—— 问过一个非常根本性的问题，那就是： 我们要如何才能保持大脑持续不断地 自我更新呢？ 你们明白我的问题吗？ 这个大脑会持续不断地…… 它不会退化、不会变老， 不会变成老糊涂， 而是一个不会损害自己的大脑， 它不会允许自己受到损坏， 它拥有一种“青春常驻”的品质 ——这里说的是大脑， 而不是指性活力等等这类东西。 这对于你们所有人来说 是一个重要的问题吗？ 不是因为我在问它（所以才重要）。 我在问的是：它对我们每个人来说 是否很重要？ 当我们变得越来越老、越来越老以后， 我们是否可能拥有一个依然崭新的、 年轻的、未受损害的、自由的大脑？ 这样我们便能拥有一颗「迅捷」的心灵， 并不只是思维敏捷，它也会体现在行动上。 12:06 毕竟，「青春」就意味着“决定并行动”。 它也许是一种愚蠢的决定 和愚蠢的行动， 然而当一个人变老以后， 总是会出现造成衰退的因素 ——不仅是生物学上的衰退、生理上的衰退， 也包括大脑的衰退。 你们中有人对这个感兴趣吗？ 那就是去发现：我们是否可能 拥有这样一个大脑 ——尽管大脑是非常、非常、非常古老的， 它有着数千年、成千上万年的历史了—— 尽管这个大脑如此“年老”、 尽管它有着所有那些经验 以及积累下来的知识的重负， 这个大脑是否可能变得…… ——如果我可以使用“年轻”这个词的话， 这样你们就会理解我的意思了 ——这里的“年轻”并不是指傻乎乎、 并不是指愚钝、死气沉沉等等这类东西。 13:46 我们可以来讨论下它吗？ 你们中有人对它感兴趣吗？ 拜托了，我并没有在要求你们 对它感兴趣。 我只是在问你们 ——就像你们问我问题那样， 我也正在问你们一个问题。 |
| 14:03 Q: In spite of the physical age? | 14:03 提问者：不管大脑生理上的年龄吗？ |
| 14:08 K: In spite of age, of course. Would that…? Can we go into it? Perhaps, in answering that, enquiring into that question we might be able to answer how to meet human beings who are vulgar, cruel, violent, self-centred, and somewhat neurotic – admitting that one is also, perhaps, neurotic. That’s the question I would like to put forward to you, if you are interested in it, we can go into it. Ca vous plait? | 14:08 克：不管多大年纪，当然了。 它可以吗……？ 我们可以来探讨下它吗？ 也许就在回答这个问题、 探询这个问题的过程中， 我们或许就能够来回答 如何面对理解那些 粗俗、残忍、暴力、 自我中心和多少有些神经质的人的问题了 ——而我们也要承认 自己可能也有点神经质。 这就是我想要向你们提出的问题， 如果你们对此感兴趣的话， 我们可以来探讨它。 你们喜欢讨论它吗？ |
| 15:07 Q: Yes. | 15:07 提问者：喜欢。 |
| 15:09 Q: I would not be neurotic if not everybody else is neurotic. | 15:09 提问者：如果不是所有其他人都神经质的话， 我也不会变得神经质了。 |
| 15:21 K: She would not be neurotic if everybody around her is not neurotic. And how does a mind which is not so completely neurotic meet a mind, or behaviour of a human being who is somewhat more neurotic? That’s the question asked. Please, may I go into it? | 15:21 克：如果她周围的人不是每个人都是神经质， 那她也不会那么神经质了。 所以，一颗还没有完全变得神经质的心灵 要怎么去面对理解一个 稍微有点神经质的人的想法或行为呢？ 这就是她问的问题。 好了，我可以来谈谈它吗？ |
| 15:50 What makes the brain, I’m talking of the brain which holds thousand years of memories. Right? Because our brain is not young, we have inherited thousands of years of man’s endeavour, man’s struggle, what he has to face, dangers, pleasures, all the travail of existence for thousands and thousands of years. Our brain has evolved, and through that evolution, time and progress, all the rest of it, it has acquired certain resistances, certain freedom, it has learnt what is danger, how to avoid danger, and how to pursue pleasure, and so on. So our brain, your brain, is not just born, it is the result of a million years. 17:23 Right? That’s obvious. I am not a brain specialist. I’ve watched myself, I’ve watched the whole business. Now, can that brain unburden itself from the past, be free from all pressure, from all compulsion, various forms of addictions. Right? I’m asking that question. That is, what damages the brain? Let’s begin that way. You find out. Let’s talk it over, together. Perhaps, I may be more neurotic than you are, or I may be a biological freak. So, you have to talk over, together, show to each other, help each other to understand this question. Now, what damages the brain? | 15:50 是什么使得大脑…… ——我这里所说的是 那个承载着上千年记忆的大脑。 是吧？ 因为我们的大脑并不“年轻”， 我们遗传继承了人类数千年以来的努力、 斗争、人类必须要面对的东西、 各种危险、快感， 成千上万年以来 所有「生存」的艰难困苦。 我们的大脑已经进化了， 经由这种进化…… 通过时间与进步，等等这些， 大脑已经获得了某些抵抗力、 一定程度的自由， 它已经了解到了什么是危险， 如何避免危险， 以及如何追求快感，等等。 所以我们的大脑、你的大脑， 它并不只是“新出生”的大脑， 它是百万年发展以来的产物。 17:23 对吧？这是很显然的。 我并不是一个大脑专家。 但我已经观察过了我自己， 我观察过了它所有的内容。 那么，这个大脑是否能够 卸下过去的“重负”， 摆脱掉所有的压力、所有的强迫、 以及各种上瘾的事物呢？ 对吧？ 我正在询问这个问题。 换句话说，是什么毁坏了大脑？ 让我们从这里开始吧。 请你们自己去发现它。 让我们一起来讨论一下它。 也许我要比你们更加神经质一点， 或者我可能是一个生物学上的怪人。 所以，你们自己必须要一起来讨论它， 互相告知对方，互相帮助对方 来理解这个问题。 现在来看，是什么毁坏了大脑呢？ |
| 19:09 Q: Psychological hurts. | 19:09 提问者：心理上的创伤。 |
| 19:13 K: The gentleman says, ‘psychological urge,’ I don’t quite follow. | 19:13 克：这位先生说，“是心理上的冲动”， 我不是很理解。 |
| 19:19 Q: Hurts. | 19:19 提问者：是「创伤」。 |
| 19:26 K: More basically than that, what destroys the brain? | 19:26 克：有没有比这更根本性的东西， 是什么毁掉了大脑？ |
| 19:37 Q: Contradiction. | 19:37 提问者：矛盾。 |
| 19:40 K: Contradiction. When there is contradiction, that is, feeling one thing, doing something opposite to that, thinking something and saying something entirely different from what you think, or there is this desire to do something, the drive, and there is, also, the opposing drive. Right? So, this is what the gentleman means – if I understood him, rightly – by contradiction. Now, what takes place when there is contradiction? What takes place in your life...? I don’t have to… Please, think it out for yourself – what takes place when there is contradiction, opposition? One desire opposing another desire, what takes place? | 19:40 克：矛盾。 当有了矛盾， 也就是：心里觉得是这样， 但做的事情却与之背道而驰， 想的是一套， 但说出来的话却完全是另一套， 或者说，当你渴望去做某件事的时候， 存在那种驱动力， 可同时你也会有相反的驱动力。 是吧？ 所以，这就是那位先生的意思 ——如果我没有理解错的话—— 那就是「矛盾」。 好了，当有了「矛盾」以后， 会发生什么呢？ 那时你的生活中会发生什么呢……？ 就不用我来 拜托了，请你自己去仔细想一想 ——当有了矛盾和对立，那时会发生什么呢？ 一个欲望在反对着另一个欲望， 然后会怎么样呢？ |
| 20:52 Q: Conflict. | 20:52 提问者：会有冲突。 |
| 20:55 K: Conflict. Could we say, then, that conflict in any form, biological, psychological, or one thought opposing another thought, and so on, this constant conflict, this constant battle, outwardly and inwardly is one of the factors of the brain being damaged? Right? Don’t agree with me, please. It’s important to find out, for oneself, whether this brain, which is not your brain, that’s just it, please, understand this. It’s not your brain, it’s the brain of all of us because you are the result of million years of so-called evolution, progress, accumulation of knowledge, pain, suffering. | 20:55 克：冲突。 那么，我们是否可以说： 任何形式的冲突 ——不管是生理上的冲突、心理上的冲突， 还是一个念头在反对着 另一个念头，等等， 这种持续不断的冲突、这种持续不断的斗争 ——既包括外在的、也包括内在的—— 它是否就是导致大脑遭到毁坏的因素之一？ 是吧？ 请不要同意我。 重要的是亲自去发现： 这个大脑是否…… ——它并不是你的大脑， 就是这样，请理解这一点。 它并不是你的大脑， 它是我们所有人的大脑， 因为你就是上百万年以来所谓的“进化”、 进步、知识积累、痛苦、苦难的产物。 |
| 22:22 Q: So, you said that… | 22:22 提问者：所以，你的意思是说 |
| 22:24 K: Un instant, un instant, un instant je vous en prie. Un momento, per favore – the train. | 22:24 克：（法语）请等一下、请等一下，拜托了。 （意大利语）请稍等片刻 ——等火车过去再说。 |
| 22:34 Q: You say, in telling what you have said now, that we are at this subject all in the same position but I can understand that the inhabitants are so different. So, when you say is the brain of the whole of humankind, we are all in the same position when we were born, I want to ask you a personal question: when you were born you were conditioned and you free yourself after this? | 22:34 提问者：在你谈到刚刚所讲的主题时， 你说在这个问题上， 我们大家都处于同样的境地， 然而就我的理解来说： 各地居民是如此的不同。 所以当你说：大脑是全人类共有的， 当我们一出生起， 我们都处于同样的境地时， 我想要问你一个很私人的问题： 当你出生时，你是深受局限的， 但是不是在这之后，你让自己获得了解脱？ |
| 23:05 K: No… | 23:05 克：不是 |
| 23:06 Q: Or is it work you do, after? | 23:06 提问者：或者说是因为你后来做了一些努力？ |
| 23:09 K: No, sir, no, no. Don’t go off into detail yet, please, just wait a minute. Prego, un momento. Would you say your brain, which is the result of thousands of years, is different from my brain which is also thousands and thousands and thousands of years old? Or we both of us have passed through the gate of experience, of pain, of suffering, of agony and so on and so on? That brain may be conditioned in a culture which is different from another culture. It may be educated differently from another culture which has its own education. But the basic quality of the brain is that, being thousands of years old, it is more or less the same, similar, though, outwardly, it is different. We’ll go into that. Leave that, for the moment. | 23:09 克：不，先生，不，不是的。 请先不要去深入那些细节， 稍微等一下。 （意大利语）请稍等。 你是想说：你的大脑 ——你的大脑就是数千年以来的产物—— 这个大脑和我的大脑是不同的吗？ ——然而我的大脑同样也有着 成千上万年的历史了。 还是说：我们双方都已经 经历过了世事沧桑， 经历过了痛苦、苦难、烦恼，等等 等等？ 那个大脑或许会受到 文化习俗的制约 ——这种文化习俗是不同于 另一种文化习俗的。 这种文化习俗的教育方式 不同于另一种文化习俗， 而另一种文化习俗 也有它自己的教育方式。 然而大脑的基本品质都是一样的， 它们都有着数千年的历史， 所以多多少少是相同的、类似的， 尽管外在看起来它们是不同的。 我们将会来探究这一点的。 但暂时先不谈这个了。 |
| 24:47 I’m asking myself and I hope you’re asking yourself, too, what are the basic elements that bring about damage? Let’s forget your brain and my brain are the same – leave all that aside. We said, one of the causes of damage is this constant effort, conflict, struggle, which puts enormous pressure on the brain. Right? Or you don’t agree to this. What do you say? | 24:47 我正在询问我自己， 而我希望你也正在问你自己， 那就是：造成毁坏的 最基本的要素是什么呢？ 让我们先忘掉 “你的大脑和我的大脑是相同的”观点 ——先把这些都抛开。 我们说了：造成毁坏的原因之一 就是这种持续不断的努力、冲突和斗争， 它给大脑造成了巨大的压力。 对吧？ 还是说，你并不同意这一点。 你的看法是什么？ |
| 25:43 Q: I don’t agree. | 25:43 提问者：我不同意。 |
| 25:51 Q: He says he doesn’t agree. He thinks the brain has evolved through struggle. | 25:51 提问者：他说他不同意。 他认为大脑是通过斗争努力 而得以进化的。 |
| 25:56 K: Yes, to a certain extent, the gentleman says – this is the common argument – it has evolved through struggle, through conflict, through constant battle, outwardly and inwardly. And one questions – I don’t say it has not – but one questions it. You understand what I’m saying? One doesn’t easily accept it has evolved through struggle. I want to find out if that is the truth. So, we are asking ourselves, if struggle is the element of its growth, then if that has damaged the brain, through biological strain, the constant pressure, strain, anxiety, if these things have brought about a ‘better’ brain – I’m using the ‘better’ in quotes – after millions of years what have we achieved, what have we come to? 27:48 If the brain has evolved and become extraordinarily beautiful, marvellous, after thousands of years of struggle – and what are we at the present time? That’s the criteria. Right? | 25:56 克：没错，从某种程度上来说…… 这位先生说 ——这也是很常见的争论了—— 即大脑是通过努力、 通过冲突、通过持续不断的斗争 ——外在和内在的斗争——而发展进化的。 然而某人（即克氏自己）质疑这一点 ——我并没有说它不是——而只是对它提出质疑。 你们理解我在说什么吗？ 某人不愿轻易接受 “它是通过努力斗争而进化”的观点， 而我想要去发现这是不是真相。 因此，我们正在问自己， 「斗争努力」是不是促使大脑成长的要素， 而如果那些斗争努力已经毁坏了大脑 ——经由生物学上的紧张、 持续不断的压力、紧张和焦虑， 如果这些东西已经带来了 一个“更好”的大脑 ——这里的“更好”是加引号的—— 那么在经历了数百万年以后， 我们又取得了怎样的成就、 达到了怎样的境界呢？ 27:48 大脑有没有得到发展进化 在经历了数千年的奋斗努力之后， 大脑有没有变得极其美好和出色呢 ——而如今的我们是什么样子的？ 这才是评判的标准。对吧？ |
| 28:17 Q: Sir, may I ask you a further question related to that? | 28:17 提问者：先生，我可以问你一个 与之相关的、更进一步的问题吗？ |
| 28:22 K: Jesus… | 28:22 克：天哪 |
| 28:23 Q: As you say the brain, our brain, has evolved over this long period of time, along with the brains of other creatures. It seems it is not a question of the superiority of one brain, the human brain over other brains of other species, but it is remarkable, it seems, that the human brain has different qualities from the rest. | 28:23 提问者：因为你说大脑——我们的大脑—— 在漫长的岁月里已经发展进化了， 而其他生物的大脑也进化了。 所以看起来这并不是一个 关于我们大脑的优越性的问题， 人类的大脑 要比其他物种的大脑更优越， 有一点是值得注意的： 相比其他物种的大脑， 人类的大脑似乎拥有一些不同的品质。 |
| 28:59 K: I don’t... | 28:59 克：我不太 |
| 29:01 Q: And that it has, along with this pain, the possibilities of pain and contradiction through its memories, its desire to repeat past experiences... | 29:01 提问者：但人类的大脑也有着这种痛苦， 它有可能会痛苦， 会有那种经由记忆而来的矛盾， 它也会渴望去重复过去的经验 |
| 29:17 K: I’m sorry, sir, I can’t hear. | 29:17 克：这位先生，很抱歉，我听不到你的声音。 |
| 29:20 Q: I’m sorry. I was asking what the difference is between the human brain and the other brains which have evolved along with it. The human brain has, it seems, acquired this possibility for suffering through anticipation, the desire to repeat past experiences and I wonder how we can differentiate what seems to be the peculiarities of the human brain from the other brains. | 29:20 提问者：对不起。 我在问的是：人类的大脑 和与它同时进化发展的其他（物种的）大脑相比， 两者之间有什么区别？ 人类的大脑似乎 拥有这种可能性： 即它会因为预期而产生痛苦， 它会渴望去重复过去的某些经验， 而我想要知道，我们要如何才能辨别出 人类大脑相比其他物种大脑 所拥有的独特之处呢？ |
| 30:03 K: Look, sir, if I may ask, we must take our brains as they are – as we are. Not say, are we different from the animal, are we different from the little baby, or different from the extraordinary animal called the whale and so on. We are talking of the brain that we have now, not the brain of the animal but as we are, now. We are saying, if through struggle, through conflict, through millennia, man has produced this extraordinary brain, what is the actual fact, not theory, not supposition, the actual fact of what it is doing, now, how it is operating, now. Just a minute. 31:20 I do not know if you have read in one of the magazines that we have had wars for the last five thousand years. That means – historically – that means wars every other year. Right? And we are going on in the same pattern. Right? Our way of killing has become much more efficient, much more complicated, you can destroy human beings by the million and keep the buildings intact. Is that the result of our excellent brain? You follow? | 30:03 克：你瞧，先生，如果允许我说一下的话， 我们必须要如实看待我们的大脑 ——也就是如实看待我们自己。 不要说什么“我们是否有别于动物， 我们是否有别于那个小小的婴儿， 或者有别于那个 被称为“鲸鱼”的非凡动物，等等。 我们正在谈论的是 我们现在所拥有的这个大脑， 不是什么动物的大脑， 而是我们现在的大脑。 我们在问：是不是通过斗争、通过冲突、 通过数千年的时间， 人类真的已经创造出了一个 非凡的大脑？ 实际的真相是什么， 不是理论、不是推测， 而是实际的事实 ——大脑如今正在做些什么， 它如今是如何运作的。 请稍等一下。 31:20 我不知道你们是否在某份杂志中 读到过这样的内容： 那就是我们在过去的五千年里 一直有着战争。 这意味着——从历史的角度来看—— 这意味着每隔一年就会发生战争。 是吧？ 而我们仍在继续重复着 同样的模式。 对吧？ 我们杀人的方式变得更有效率、 更加复杂了， 你们可以消灭掉上百万的人类， 同时保持建筑物完好无损。 这难道就是我们无比优秀的大脑 所带来的结果吗？ 你们跟上了吗？ |
| 32:23 So, we are saying, strife, conflict, battle within and without, does that really make the brain young, fresh? There may be another way. You follow? We have accepted the norm, the pattern, that as a tree struggles to reach the sunlight in a forest or in a wood, so we must struggle to have more knowledge, more this and that and the other. So, I am saying there may be another way which may bring about a different quality of the brain which is not hurt, which is not under pressure, if one understands the futility of effort. | 32:23 所以，我们在说的是：斗争、冲突、 以及内在和外在的战斗， 这真的能让大脑保持年轻和崭新吗？ 或许我们还有别的路可走。 你们理解了吗？ 我们已经接受了那种准则、那种模式， 即：就像森林或树林里的树木会努力 去触及阳光一样， 所以我们也必须 奋力去获得更多的知识， 去获得更多的这个或那个东西。 所以我说：也许还有一条别的道路， 它也许能带来一种不同的大脑品质， 这种大脑不会受伤、不会有压力 ——如果我们明白了 「努力」的徒劳无用的话。 |
| 33:40 Q: We don’t know if such a state exists. | 33:40 提问者：我们并不知道 这样的状态是否存在。 |
| 33:44 K: You don’t know. No, no, ecoutez. | 33:44 克：你并不知道。 不，不，（法语）请听我说。 |
| 33:48 Q: Who’ll give me the answer if this is possible that the humankind can go without conflict or not? I don’t know. | 33:48 提问者：谁能告诉我这个问题的答案呢： 即人类是否可能活得没有冲突？ 我不知道。 |
| 33:58 K: Sir, you’re not listening to what I’m saying. I said there may be another way. You don’t know. | 33:58 克：先生，你并没有在聆听 我所说的东西。 我说的是：“也许”存在着一条别的道路。 但你并不知道。 |
| 34:08 Q: I suppose. | 34:08 提问者：我假设它存在。 |
| 34:10 K: I said there may be. That means, in English, perhaps. | 34:10 克：我说的是它“也许”存在。 在英语中，它的意思是“可能”。 |
| 34:16 Q: Perhaps. | 34:16 提问者：有可能。 |
| 34:18 K: A probability. So, don’t say, we don’t know. For God’s sake! We have said that struggle has not brought about intelligence in our life. It has become very clever to protect itself, but it is not intelligent when you have wars, wars, wars, practically every year, all over the world. Obvious, sir. And I’m suggesting, perhaps, – perhaps – there may be the other way, there may be another way of living and perhaps making the brain much more alive, young, fresh, if we understand the futility of effort. | 34:18 克：有一种可能性。 所以请不要说“我们并不知道”。 看在上帝的份上！ 我们说了 那就是：斗争/努力 并没有为我们的生活带来智慧。 大脑已经在「自我保护」这方面 变得非常聪明， 但这并非智慧——因为你们仍然有着 接连不断的战争， 全世界各地几乎每年都会发生战争。 这是显而易见的，先生。 而我在暗示的是：我们或许 ——我们可能—— 我们也许有一条别的道路， 也许可以有另一种生活方式， 它也许能让大脑变得更加 活跃、年轻和焕然一新 ——如果我们能明白 「努力」的徒劳无用的话。 |
| 35:26 Q: (Inaudible) | 35:26 提问者：（听不见的声音） |
| 35:48 K: The present social structure is based on this question of competition. Right? That is, our present social structure with its economy and so on is based, essentially, on competition, fight to reach, struggle to get something. That is, the nature and the structure – in more detail, I don’t want to go – of our society in which we live. That society is the outcome of us, we have built it. God hasn’t built it. Every human being has built the society in which we live because he’s aggressive, he wants position, he wants power, he’s greedy and so on, so on. So, our society is competitive, our society is essentially immoral – we won’t go into what is morality and all the rest of it, we will, later on – it is essentially immoral, divided: upper and lower levels of power. Right? 37:51 So, our whole education, the way we live, is based on that, and that is our pattern for the last million years. And that may be one of the factors – I’m suggesting, I’m not saying it is – it may be one of the factors that damages the brain – this constant strain, this constant struggle, the constant wanting to find something, being driven towards something. Those who are seeking, already know what they are seeking – bien? Otherwise, you wouldn’t seek it. | 35:48 克：如今的社会结构 是基于「竞争问题」之上的。 是吧？ 换句话说， 我们现在的社会结构及其经济体系等等， 它们本质上都是建立在「竞争」之上的， 奋力去达到某处，努力去获得某个东西。 也就是说，我们所生活的这个社会的本质和结构 ——我不想展开讲更多细节内容了—— 这个社会是我们自己的产物。 是我们造就了这个社会。 而不是“上帝”造就了它。 每一个人都帮助造就了 我们所生活于其中的这个社会， 因为他也有侵略性， 他也渴望地位、渴望权力， 他也很贪婪，等等 等等。 所以，我们的社会是竞争性的， 我们的社会本质上是不道德的 ——我们就不深入去讲 什么是道德 等等这些东西了， 之后我们会讲到它的—— 这个社会本质上是不道德的、分裂的： 它分为高低不同的权力阶层。对吧？ 37:51 所以，我们的整个教育、我们的生活方式， 就是建立在这之上的， 而这就是过去上百万年以来我们的模式。 而它或许就是因素之一 ——我只是在暗示，我并没有说它就是—— 它也许就是毁坏大脑的一个因素 ——即这种持续不断的紧张、 持续不断的努力、 持续不断地渴望找到某个东西， 被推动驱使着去追求某个事物。 那些正在寻找的人， 他们肯定已经知道了 他们所要寻找的东西，是吧？ 否则的话，你就不会去寻找它了。 |
| 39:00 So, we are saying that’s one of the basic factors of damage. Can we live – again, a probability, asking, I want to ask these questions because otherwise we just remain where we are – is there a possibility of living without conflict? Otherwise, our brains will always function in a very, very narrow, limited pattern. That’s simple enough. Right? | 39:00 所以，我们说：这就是造成毁坏的 基本因素之一。 那么我们能否去过这样一种生活 ——同样的，我只是在询问一种可能性， 我想要问问这些问题， 因为否则的话， 我们就只是在原地踏步了—— 我们是否可能去过一种 没有冲突的生活？ 否则，我们的大脑将永远都是 在一个非常非常狭隘和有限的模式中运作了。 这是很简单的道理。对吧？ |
| 39:43 Q: We have seen how the brain is so conditioned, and how is right action to come about, with such a brain? | 39:43 提问者：我们已经看到大脑 是如何深受制约的， 而这样的大脑又如何能产生出 正确的行动呢？ |
| 39:54 K: We’re going to, sir, slowly, let’s go step by step into it. And if that is the factor why our brains, as we grow older become more and more worn out, more and more repetitive – it won’t alter its pattern. It’s afraid to break its pattern. If it is malicious, bitter, angry, it keeps to that, and so on. Then, is there a way of living which is not this constant strain, battle? To find that out we must understand the nature and the structure of contradiction, comparison and this drive – pleasant, sometimes unpleasant, aggressive and on other occasions easy, but this constant drive. 41:28 That is, we say, damaging the brain. Even the specialists are agreeing to this. We happened to talk to one of the so-called brain specialists, he agrees to this. Being a specialist, you must also agree with him! Right? Because you’re all authoritarian bound. | 39:54 克：我们会讲到这个的……先生，慢慢来， 让我们一步一步地深入它。 如果这就是导致以下现象的因素 ——即随着我们变老，我们的大脑 也会越来越磨损耗尽、 越来越重复化——它很难再去改变它的模式。 它会害怕打破自己的模式。 如果它是心怀恶意的、痛苦的、愤怒的， 那它就会继续保持这样子，等等。 那么，是否存在一种生活方式， 它并没有这种持续不断的紧张与斗争？ 而要发现它，我们就必须了解 矛盾、比较和那种驱动力的本质与结构 ——那种驱动力是令人愉快的、 有时也会令人不快、具有侵略性， 有时候也会是轻松舒适的， 但始终都有着这种持续不断的驱动力。 41:28 我们说：就是这些东西毁坏了大脑。 甚至连那些专家们也同意这一点。 我们恰巧曾经和一位 所谓的“大脑专家”聊过它， 他也同意这一点。 他可是一位专家， 所以你们一定也会同意他的！ 是吧？ 因为你们都受缚于那些「权威」。 |
| 42:02 So, that’s one of the factors. Just a minute. What are the other factors? Go on, sir. | 42:02 所以，这就是其中的一个因素。 稍等下，我还没说完。 那么还有什么其他因素吗？ 继续讨论下去，先生。 |
| 42:17 Q: It seems that my thought doesn’t want to end itself. | 42:17 提问者：我的思想似乎 并不想要结束它自己。 |
| 42:30 K: He has said something which is important to understand – if I understand the question, properly. We are afraid of ending. Right? If one is attached with all the sequences and the things involved in attachment, with its pain, with its fear, all the rest of it, the continuity of the same pattern of attachment is one of the factors of deterioration. I wonder if you see this. Because that which is continuous, is habitual, routine, mechanical, so the brain that has become mechanical is one of the factors of deterioration. 44:00 Right? Oh, this is obvious! No? If I, born in India, continue to be an Indian, thinking along the same way: my superstition, my gods, my inventions – you follow? – routine, routine, routine – it’s obviously mechanical, traditional and, therefore, it is damaging itself. | 42:30 克：理解他所说的这一点是很重要的 ——如果我对他的问题没有理解错的话。 那就是 我们都害怕「结束」。 对吧？ 如果我们执著于所有那些过程体验， 以及那些依恋之物 及其痛苦、恐惧、等等， 那么这种执著模式的延续， 它便是导致（大脑）堕落退化的因素之一。 我不知道你们是否看到了这点。 因为那个延续的事物， 它是习惯性的、例行公事的、机械化的， 所以这个已经变得机械化的大脑， 它就是导致堕落衰退的因素之一。 44:00 对吧？噢，这是很显然的事儿！ 不是吗？ 如果我出生在印度， 那我就一直会是一个印度人， 我会一直保持同样的思维方式： 我的迷信、我的神明、我的各种发明物 ——你们跟上了吗？ —— 例行公事、例行公事、还是例行公事 ——这很显然是机械化的、 是固守传统的，因此大脑正在破坏它自己。 |
| 44:32 Now, wait a minute, that’s one of the factors: that is, struggle, effort, battle with oneself and a mechanical way of living, following the tradition, it may be two-day-old or ten-thousand-year-old. That means that which is a continuous movement, in the same direction, is one of the factors of deterioration. No? | 44:32 好了，等一下， 这是其中一个因素： 也就是：奋斗、努力、自我斗争， 以及那种机械化的生活方式， 遵循传统——它可能只是延续了两天的传统， 或者是有着一万年历史的传统。 这意味着：那种朝着同样方向的 持续不断的运动， 它就是导致堕落退化的因素之一。 难道不是吗？ |
| 45:17 Q: Doesn’t continuous movement imply struggle, isn’t it the same, because if I don’t struggle I cannot move continuously? | 45:17 提问者：持续不断的运动 不也意味着奋斗吗， 它不是一样的吗？ 因为如果我不努力奋斗， 我就无法持续不断地向前进了？ |
| 45:26 K: I may continue this way or I may continue that way. | 45:26 克：我也许会继续保持这个样子， 或者继续保持那个样子。 |
| 45:30 Q: But continuation, itself, is a struggle, is the same as struggling. | 45:30 提问者：但是这种「继续」本身 也是一种“奋斗”， 它和努力奋斗是一样的。 |
| 45:38 K: Yes, sir. Agreed, agreed. Don’t explain. That’s understood. Struggle is what we are accustomed to, which has become a pattern and never ending anything, which is also our pattern. If I’m hurt, I carry it all my life. Right? I never end my hurt. So, the mechanical way of living is one of the factors of deterioration – which doesn’t mean that we must be spontaneous. How can a mind which has never been free, which has always worked horizontally or vertically, continuously, how can such a mind which follows a pattern, have any form of spontaneity? It is impossible. It may think it is spontaneous. Right – we have found two factors. So, what are the other factors? | 45:38 克：是的，先生。同意，我同意。 不用解释了。 这个我们都明白。 「奋斗」是我们所习惯于的东西 ——它已经变成了一种模式， 而“从不结束任何事物” ——它也是我们的模式。 如果我受到了伤害， 那我终其一生都会携带着这种伤害。 对吧？ 我从来没有「终结」掉我的伤害。 所以，机械化的生活方式 就是导致堕落衰退的因素之一 ——但这并不意味着 我们就一定要自然自发。 因为一个从未自由的头脑、 一个总是在以水平或垂直的方式 而不断工作的头脑， 这样一个遵循特定模式的头脑 又怎么可能拥有任何形式的自发性呢？ 这是不可能的。 虽然它也许会认为自己是“自然自发”的。 好了——我们已经找到了两个因素。 那么，还有其他什么因素吗？ |
| 46:58 Q: Thought, itself. | 46:58 提问者：思想本身。 |
| 47:01 K: Wait. I’ll come to that towards the end, sir, I don’t… don’t add… before you pick thought, itself, go into another. | 47:01 克：等一下，我会在最后谈到它的，先生， 我不是……不要再增加…… 在你提到「思想」本身之前，先看看其他因素。 |
| 47:11 Q: To be self-centred? | 47:11 提问者：是「自我中心」吗？ |
| 47:16 K: To be self-centred. Yes, maybe. And – wait, I’m coming to that – one of the factors may be this constant desire to identify oneself with something. I’m asking you, don’t accept it or deny it, but find out. This constant exertion, drive, impetus, desire, to say, ‘I am that’ – identify myself with the country, with a belief, with a person, with an idea, with an ideal, or with a piece of furniture. You understand? This constant movement from what I am, to what I should be. And identifying myself with what ‘should be,’ which is, again, a battle. Right? Right, sir? | 47:16 克：「自我中心」。是的，有可能。 但是——请等一下，我先来谈谈这个—— 另一个因素也许就是： 不断地渴望将自己认同于某个事物。 我正在问你们，请不要接受它或者否定它， 而是去发现真相。 持续不断的努力、驱动、推动、渴望， 说“我就是某某东西” ——将自己认同于一个国家、 一种信仰、一个人、一个理念、一个理想， 或者认同于一件家具。 你们理解了吗？ 这种持续不断的运动： 从“我是怎样的”转变为“我应该怎样”。 然后将自己认同于那个“应该的样子”， 而这同样也是一种“奋斗”。 对吧？是吧，先生？ |
| 48:52 So, what are the other factors? Effort, a way of living in a routine, if that is broken, you form another routine. Which means a mind, a brain that has been accustomed, it is its habit, to mechanically follow, mechanically accept, mechanically live – I did this yesterday and I must do this tomorrow, I had sexual pleasure yesterday, I must have it tomorrow and so on and on. Right? Now, there may be another factor, which is, the whole momentum of thought. With this, perhaps, you will not agree – not agree – we’ll not be able to communicate with each other. 50:10 I want to communicate and you may be unwilling to communicate. You may say, ‘Use a different set of words.’ Words are not important when you want to communicate something. There must be the urge to understand each other, then I can use a word in Eskimo, or some language, and language won’t matter. The desire to understand is more important than the word. So, I’m asking, is one of the major, perhaps, the only factor, that damages the brain, is this constant movement of thought? | 48:52 好了，还有其他什么别的因素吗？ 努力，例行公事般的生活方式 ——如果你打破了这种例行公事， 你又会形成另一种例行公事。 这意味着头脑、大脑已经习惯于它了， 这已经成了它的习惯 ——那就是去机械化地遵从、 机械化地接受、机械化地生活 ——我昨天是这么做的， 所以我明天也必须这么做， 我昨天享受了性的快感， 我明天必须要再次享受它， 等等，等等。 对吧？ 现在来看，可能还存在着另一个因素， 那就是：整个思想的推动力。 对于这个，你们也许并不同意 ——不应该用“同意”这个词—— 应该说：我们将很难彼此交流沟通它。 50:10 我想要与你交流一下它， 但你也许并不愿意交流它。 你也许会说“换一套措词吧”。 然而当你想要去交流某个事物时， 词语文字并不重要。 而是必须要有 想要了解对方意思的强烈渴望， 而那时，我甚至可以使用爱斯基摩语， 或者其他（愚蠢的）语言， 但什么语言并不重要。 那种「想要了解的渴望」 远比词语文字重要。 所以，我正在问： 毁坏大脑的一个主要因素， 或许也是唯一的因素， 它是否就是这种持续不断的思想的运动？ |
| 51:26 Q: Thought generates fear and one of the fears is the fear of communicating, really communicating. I’m afraid of communicating to you, now. I’m communicating to you, now but I’m afraid, somehow and it seems thought has generated that fear in me of communicating to you, now, with all these people here and so on. | 51:26 提问者：思想滋生了恐惧， 而其中一种恐惧便是对于交流 ——真正交流——的恐惧。 此刻，我就很害怕与你交流。 我现在正在和你沟通交流， 但我多多少少还是有些害怕， 此刻，思想似乎已经在我心中滋生出了 那种与你交流的恐惧， 以及和在场所有这些人交流的恐惧 等等。 |
| 51:53 Q: He says that thought generates fear – fear of communicating with you – here and now. | 51:53 提问者：他说思想滋生出了恐惧 ——那种与你交流的恐惧——就在此时此地。 |
| 52:01 K: Thought generates fear. That fear is born because thought is afraid to communicate with you. Is that so? Are you afraid to communicate with me? I’m not saying you are, or you’re not, I don’t know. Unless you are a devotee, unless you say, ‘Well, I surrender to whatever you are, I’ll surrender to that’ – then you go to sleep. Now, are we frightened to communicate with each other? | 52:01 克：思想滋生出了恐惧。 那种恐惧之所以产生， 是因为思想害怕与你交流。 是这样的吗？ 你害怕与我交流吗？ 我没有说你害怕或者你不害怕， 因为我并不知道。 除非你是一位信徒，除非你说， “哦，我会臣服于你 ——无论你是什么——我将会臣服” ——那么你就沉睡过去了。 而现在，我们难道会害怕互相交流吗？ |
| 52:51 Q: One doesn’t understand quite fully what you are saying. | 52:51 提问者：我们难以完全理解你所说的东西。 |
| 52:59 K: No, sir, that’s a different… One doesn’t understand quite fully what you’re saying, therefore, that might bring about, not fear – ‘I don’t understand you, please, tell me more, put it a different way.’ But in that, there is no fear, unless one is afraid to expose oneself. Right? You may not want to expose yourself to me, and I don’t want you to expose yourself to me. But you should expose yourself to yourself. See yourself – perhaps expose yourself is rather an equivocal word but you should see yourself as you are. And the function of a speaker is not important if you use him as a mirror, to see yourself as you are. | 52:59 克：不，先生，这是另一回事了 我们无法完全理解你在说的东西， 因此，这也许会带来…… 它不会带来恐惧吧 ——“我不理解你的意思， 请再多和我解释下吧， 换种方式解释一下它。 ” 但在这之中并不存在什么恐惧， ——除非某人害怕暴露他自己。 对吧？ 你也许并不想要向我暴露你自己， 而我也不想要你在我面前暴露自己。 但你应该向自己“暴露自己”。 去看清你自己——或许“暴露自己” 是一个相当模棱两可的词， 但你应该如实地看清你自己。 而演讲者所做的工作并不重要 ——如果你利用他作为一面镜子 来看到真实的自己的话。 |
| 54:11 Now, let’s proceed. We said one of the major factors, and perhaps the only factor, is this constant movement of thought. While you are awake, while you’re asleep, while you are looking out of the window or keeping still, this constant chatter not, probably, put into words but imagination, looking at things and giving them a name, this machinery is going on all the time. And we are saying, that may be the real damage to the brain. | 54:11 好了，让我们继续讲下去吧。 我们说了（导致大脑堕落退化的）主要因素之一 ——也许是唯一的因素—— 它就是这种持续不断的思想的运动。 当你醒着的时候、当你睡着的时候、 当你望向窗外或者保持安静的时候， 都会有（思想）持续不断的喋喋不休， 它可能并不会说出来，但会在脑中想象， 当你看到某些东西， 你就会给予它们一个名称， 这种机制一直在发生进行着。 而我们在说的是： 这也许才是对大脑真正的损害。 |
| 55:28 Then arises the question, how is it possible not to think at all? Wait a minute, wait a minute. That is the whole idea of controlling thought so that it won’t think about anything except what it is directed to think about. You understand this? That is, one realises – if you realise – that thought is one of the central factors of the damage of the brain thought damages the brain, then one asks, why is this machinery going on all the time? You understand? What is the motive power of it, what is the petrol, what is the oil, what is the whatever it is that keeps this thing going, going, going, going, night and day? | 55:28 然后就出现了这个问题， 是否有可能完全不去思考？ 等一下，稍等一下。 而这便是关于「控制思想」的整个理念， 由此思想便不会再去想任何东西了 ——除了那些我们指引它去思考的东西。 你们理解这点了吗？ 换句话说，某人意识到 ——如果你意识到—— 那就是「思想」是毁坏大脑的核心因素之一， 是思想损害了大脑， 那么某人就要问了： 为什么这种机制会一直持续发生？ 你们明白了吗？ 它的原动力是什么？ 它的“汽油”是什么， 它的“石油”是什么 ——无论那是什么东西， 是什么在维持着它 日日夜夜地运转、运转、再运转？ |
| 56:53 Q: The function of the brain is to think, isn’t it? | 56:53 提问者：大脑的功能就是去思考，不是吗？ |
| 57:03 K: The function of the brain is to think. Is it? Sir, don’t posit anything, don’t be definite, if I may, politely, ask you. Let’s find out. So, if thinking is the nature of the brain, and this thinking is continuously going on, then it’s damaging itself. Like a machine, like your car running all the time, add new, fresh oil, look after it, properly, but keep it running, running, running, you’ll wear it out very, very quickly. | 57:03 克：大脑的功能就是去思考。 是这样吗？ 先生，请不要假定任何东西， 不要太肯定 ——如果我可以礼貌地向你请求一下的话。 让我们一起去发现它。 那么，如果「思考」就是大脑的本性， 并且这种思考正在持续不断地发生进行着， 那大脑就是在毁坏它自己。 就像一部机器， 就像你的汽车一直在行驶， 你会为其添加崭新的、新鲜的石油， 你会正确适当地保养照顾它， 但如果你一直让它不停地行驶、行驶、行驶， 那你很快就会把它用报废了。 |
| 58:05 So, is that one of the major factors of the damage of the brain? You follow? Either you think horizontally, linearly or vertically. That is, we are used to reading books from left to right and so our thinking is more or less horizontal and if you read, as they do in China and Japan, and so on, that way, you’re also following along a certain line, or left to right, right to left, same thing – the Arabs and so on. Now, our question, then is, what is the petrol, the oil, the energy, that keeps this thing going over and over and over again. Right? What is the source of this energy which is now being used for thinking? | 58:05 所以，这是否就是 造成大脑毁坏的主要因素之一？ 你们跟上了吗？ 你要么会横向地、线性地去思考， 要么会纵向地去思考。 换句话说，我们已经习惯于 从左到右地阅读书籍， 因此我们的思考多多少少是横向的， 而如果你的阅读…… ——就像中国、日本等等地区的人那样阅读， 你同样也是遵循特定路线的， 要么是从左往右，要么是从右往左，它们是同一回事 ——还有那些阿拉伯人 等等。 而现在，我们的问题就是： 是什么“汽油”、什么“石油”、什么能量 在维持着这件事一遍又一遍地反复发生呢。 对吧？ 这种能量的源头是什么？ ——这种能量目前都耗费在了「思考」上。 |
| 59:30 Q: It is sent by the senses. | 59:30 提问者：是感官感觉引发了思考。 |
| 59:40 K: The questioner says, or she says, it is supplied by the senses. Is it? When you keep your eyes opened and look, your senses are looking, but you can keep your eyes closed and keep on thinking. Is thinking only the result of the senses, or is thinking based on another, which is memory and so on – one wants to find out what is the energy that is being used in this perpetual motion of thought. You understand, sir? | 59:40 克：这位提问者说——这位女士说： 是感官感觉带来了思考。 是这样吗？ 当你睁开眼睛然后去看的时候， 是你的感官在看， 但你也可以把眼睛闭上，然后继续思考。 那么「思考」是否仅仅是感官感觉的产物， 还是说「思考」是建立在别的东西 ——比如「记忆」等等——之上的， 某人想要去搞清楚：那种用于供给 思想持续不断活动的能量是什么。 你明白了吗，先生？ |
| 1:00:42 Q: That means that thought is living in the past. | 1:00:42 提问者：这意味着思想是活在「过去」之中的。 |
| 1:00:46 K: No, no, no, just, sir, don’t say it is. Let’s find out. You see, there is energy. Right? Energy which is being used through conflict, which has become mechanical, routine, and we said this constant identification, all this energy is used along these lines. We are asking, why is this energy so completely used by thought? You understand what I’m saying? | 1:00:46 克：不，不，不，先生， 不要只是下定论。 让我们去发现它。 你瞧，我们都有能量。 对吧？ 而这些能量被耗费在了冲突上 ——它已经变得机械化，变成了例行公事， 而我们说：这种持续不断的认同， 所有的能量都耗费在了这些事情上。 而我们正在问： 为什么这种能量 会如此彻底地耗费在思想上？ 你们理解我在说什么吗？ |
| 1:01:55 K: No, please, don’t be so quick. Find out. I don’t know if I have made myself clear. To make an effort, you need energy – to struggle, to battle, outwardly or inwardly, energy is necessary. To identify oneself with somebody and so on and so on, it requires energy. And when the brain has become mechanical, routine, following a pattern, it is also using energy. Right? And I’m asking, why has thought become so important and using up most of our energy? | 1:01:55 克：不，请别……请不要这么快就回应。 去发现它。 我不知道我有没有把我的意思表达清楚。 要做出努力，你需要能量， 去奋斗、去战斗——无论是外在的还是内在的—— 你都需要能量。 让自己认同于某个人等等 等等， 这就需要能量。 而当大脑变得机械化了、变得例行公事、 去遵循某个模式， 这同样需要消耗能量。 对吧？ 而我在问的是： 为什么思想会变得如此重要 以至于耗尽我们绝大部分的能量呢？ |
| 1:02:58 I have just stated, madam, I’m not clear, myself, whether I’m telling what I’m observing, putting into words. If somebody understands what I have said, please, carry on. | 1:02:58 这位女士，我只是在作出陈述， 我自己也不太清楚 我是否说出了我所观察到的东西、 是否将其表达出来了。 如果有人理解了我刚才说的东西， 那就请你继续深入下去吧。 |
| 1:03:13 Q: We are trying to control our environment. | 1:03:13 提问者：我们在努力控制我们的环境。 |
| 1:03:22 K: Any form of control is another wastage of energy. | 1:03:22 克：任何形式的控制 都是另一种形式的能量损耗。 |
| 1:03:36 Q: Perhaps, it’s only if you continually keep on and on thinking that you only perpetuate this permanent sense of ‘I’ ‘I,’ the self. | 1:03:36 提问者：或许当你一直不停地思考再思考， 那时你只在维持这种 永久性的“我”的感觉 ——那个“我”、那个自我。 |
| 1:03:45 K: That’s what I want to get at, why is thought using so much energy that we have no energy anywhere else? | 1:03:45 克：这就是我想要弄明白的事情， 为什么思想会耗费掉如此多的能量 以至于我们在其他地方都没有能量了？ |
| 1:04:02 Q: Because without it, the sense of ‘I,’ the fact that ‘I’ can do something… | 1:04:02 提问者：因为没有了它， 没有了“我”的感觉， 事实就是“我”的确能够做一些事情 |
| 1:04:07 K: That’s what I want to… Let’s go into it, a little bit, if we understand each other, let’s go into it, a little bit. You understand what I’m saying? | 1:04:07 克：这就是我想要…… 让我们来探究一下它——稍微来探讨下它， 如果我们彼此理解了， 那就让我们稍微来深入一下它。 你们理解我在说什么吗？ |
| 1:04:20 Q: I think the brain is always looking for security by comparing everything. | 1:04:20 提问者：我认为大脑总是在寻找安全 ——通过和每一样事物比较来寻求安全。 |
| 1:04:25 K: Yes, sir, I understand, we are seeking security – security in a belief, security in a family, security in a house, security in an ideal, security in identification, all the rest of it. We want security but that’s understood. Like a child, like a baby, that needs security. So, our brain demands security. We’ve been through that. And that security, you may think exists in this constant movement of thought. You understand what I’m saying? Discover something! That is, thought, seeking security and establishing what it thinks is secure, remains in that pattern and thought then is using an enormous amount of energy, night and day. And we say that may be one of the factors of the deterioration of the brain. | 1:04:25 克：是的，先生，我理解， 我们都在寻求安全 ——信仰带来的安全感、 家庭带来的安全感、房子带来的安全感， 理想带来的安全感、 认同带来的安全感，等等这些。 我们都想要安全， 但这点我们都已经明白了。 就像一个孩子、一个婴儿 需要安全感一样。 因此，我们的大脑需要安全感。 这点我们已经彻底讨论过了。 而你也许会认为这种安全存在于 思想持续不断的活动之中。 你们理解我在说什么吗？ 去发现一些东西吧！ 换句话说，思想在寻找安全， 它建立起了它认为是“安全”的东西， 然后一直停留在那种模式里， 然后「思想」会日日日夜夜地耗费 那股巨大的能量。 而我们说：这也许就是 导致大脑堕落退化的 因素之一。 |
| 1:05:38 Q: Is it thought itself, or is it the point where thought... | 1:05:38 提问者：这个因素是指思想本身吗？ 还是指思想所在的那个点 |
| 1:05:44 K: Is it thought, itself, or thought in action? Yeah, that’s right. Thought itself, or is it thought in action? Right? | 1:05:44 克：它是指思想本身吗？还是指思想活动？ 是的，没错。 是思想本身呢， 还是活动中的思想？ 对吧？ |
| 1:06:02 Q: Is it not a question of balance? | 1:06:02 提问者：它难道不是一个 关于「平衡」的问题吗？ |
| 1:06:08 K: Is that not a question of balance? Maybe. You’re not listening. You’re all thinking, you know, we’re not thinking, together. That doesn’t mean that you accept but let’s think together, on the same point then, perhaps, we’ll come to something. Just a minute, sir. | 1:06:08 克：它难道不是一个有关「平衡」的问题吗？ 也许是吧。 你们并没有在聆听。 你们全都在思考……你们懂的， 我们并没有在一起思考。 这并不意味着你要接受（我的话）， 而是让我们一起去思考同一个点， 然后我们也许就能发现某些东西。 请稍等一下，先生。 |
| 1:06:34 Q: I think we are afraid to be empty without thinking, or to be safe without thinking. | 1:06:34 提问者：我认为我们害怕的是 未经思考就陷入于空虚、 害怕未经思考的“安全”。 |
| 1:06:41 K: We have said that, yesterday or the day before, that we are afraid if thought wasn’t occupied with something, we’re afraid to face our loneliness. And fear, then, is one of the factors of damage, obviously. So, please. | 1:06:41 克：这个我们昨天或者前天的时候 已经说过了， 那就是我们害怕 如果思想没有“忙起来”的话， 我们会害怕面对自己的孤独。 所以那时，很显然「恐惧」就是 造成毁坏的因素之一了。 所以，请别 |
| 1:07:09 Q: Can one say that thought has run wild? | 1:07:09 提问者：我们可以说思想已经变得 疯狂放纵了吗？ |
| 1:07:14 K: Can one say that thought has run wild? You can say it! What of…? All right, it has run wild. Technologically, it has run wild, babies are being produced in test tubes and so on. Now, let’s come back. I want to find out a way of living in which the brain is not damaged. | 1:07:14 克：我们可以说思想已经变得 疯狂放纵了吗？ 你可以这么说！ 但这又有什么……？ 好吧，它已经疯狂放纵自己了。 在科技领域，它是非常疯狂放纵的， 人们正在试管中孕育婴儿，等等。 现在，让我们回到正题吧。 我想要找到一种生活方式 ——在其中大脑不会受到损害。 |
| 1:07:59 Q: Can there be a way of living…? | 1:07:59 提问者：是否存在一种生活方式……？ |
| 1:08:01 K: Jesus! | 1:08:01 克：天哪！ |
| 1:08:03 Q: …so as not to reduce all of the mechanical things, all of the technical things, that are peculiar as products of the human brain? Can we have those things which are the products of thought which relieve our various forms of discomfort, or fear of discomfort, or our fear of personal discontinuance? | 1:08:03 提问者：……这种生活可以不用减少 所有那些机械化的事物、 所有那些技术性的事物 ——那些人类大脑的独特产物。 我们能否（同时）拥有那些 作为思想产物的东西， 这些东西缓解了我们的各种不适/不便， 减轻了我们对于不适/不便的恐惧， 减轻了我们对于个人死亡的恐惧。 |
| 1:08:33 K: Sir, we went into all that during the last few discussions and talks, but I want to get at this. Please! Let’s find out. One observes, clearly, that constant effort does damage the brain, constant struggle, all that. And, also, this mechanical movement, which implies practice, you know, all that, which purely becomes mechanical, which is called meditation and so on. So, we have found two factors. And, also, we said the major factor may be the whole movement of thought and its action. And we asked, why has thought become so important, using up such tremendous energy, night and day – the images, the ideals, sexual images and so on, so on, which is all the movement of thought all the time – anger, bitterness, aggressiveness, saying, ‘You’re wrong, I’m right,’ you know, the battle that goes on. 1:10:16 Why has thought become so enormously important? Which, apparently, doesn’t seem to end, at all. You understand my question? So, is there an ending – you follow, sir? – to end something is to release energy, not in any direction, to release energy. This is too much for you. – I want to go on but, apparently... | 1:08:33 克：先生，在过去的几次讨论会和演讲中， 这些东西我们都已经探讨过了， 而我想要搞清楚的是这个…… 所以请别……！ 让我们来发现它吧。 我们可以观察到：毫无疑问， 持续不断的努力确实会毁坏大脑， 也包括那种持续不断的斗争，所有这些东西。 同样的，这种机械化的运动 ——它意味着练习， 你知道的，所有那些东西。 它已经变得完全机械化了 ——它被称为“冥想”等等。 所以，我们已经发现了两个因素。 此外，我们还说了：那个主要因素也许是 思想的全部运动和它的活动。 然后我们问：为什么思想变得如此重要， 日日夜夜地消耗着如此巨大的能量 ——那些想象、那些理想、 那些性幻想等等，等等， 这些全都是思想一直以来的运动 ——愤怒、怨恨、攻击性， 说“你错了，我才是对的”， 你们懂的，这种战斗一直在持续着。 1:10:16 那么为什么「思想」会变得 如此极度的重要呢？ 并且显而易见，思想似乎根本不会消停。 你们能理解我的问题吗？ 所以，是否存在一种「结束」呢？ ——你明白了吗，先生？—— 「结束掉某个事物」就是在「释放出能量」 ——不是朝某个方向去释放出能量。 这些东西对你们来说有点难以消化了。 ——我想要继续讲下去，但是很显然 |
| 1:11:03 Do we recognise, sir, the one central factor, that thought is in motion, is in movement from the moment you wake up, till you sleep, and when you sleep it is there, all the time? And so, it may be mechanical. So, thought is mechanical, therefore, that is a deteriorating factor. So, do we recognise, do we see the fact that thought is mechanical? | 1:11:03 先生，我们是否认识到： 那个核心的因素就是 思想在不停地活动着、运动着， 从你醒来的那一刻开始， 直到你睡觉为止， 而当你睡着了以后， 它仍然会一直在那里。 因此，这也许是很机械化的。 所以，思想是机械化的， 由此它便是一个 导致（大脑）堕落衰退的因素。 那么，我们是否认识到了…… 我们是否看到了这个事实：即「思想」是机械化的？ |
| 1:12:06 Q: It seems there is more to it. This constant thinking feeds those forces which motivate the thinking itself, such as vanity, greed. | 1:12:06 提问者：似乎还不止如此。 这种持续不断的思考，它助长了那些 激发了思考本身的力量 ——比如虚荣、贪婪。 |
| 1:12:22 K: We said that, sir. What is the motive..? We said that, sir. We asked, what is the motive of this constant thinking. Motive means movement in a direction, or no direction. Motive means, actually, the meaning of the word, is a movement. We’ve been through all this. | 1:12:22 克：先生，我们已经说过这个了。 那个动机是什么……？我们已经探讨过它了，先生。 我们问：这种持续不断的思考， 它的动机是什么。 「动机」意味着朝着某个方向运动、 或者没有方向的运动。 动机意味着……实际上，这个词的意思就是「运动」。 这些我们都已经彻底讨论过了。 |
| 1:12:51 I’m asking, as long as this brain, our brain, has become mechanical, that may be the major factor of deterioration. That mechanical process is thought, and thought is mechanical. Do we see that? You may invent the most marvellous engines, but it’s still the movement of thought. You may sit and close your eyes and think about God, it is still mechanical. Or you may say, ‘I will practise, I will sit quietly, I’ll surrender myself to somebody with a beard, or non-beard’ that’s also mechanical. 1:13:54 So, any movement of thought is mechanical. And we are saying, that is the essence of deterioration. Because that makes us struggle. Right? We are competitive, we want to reach, we want to attain, we want to become a success, which is all the movement of thought, identification, and so on and so on. So, thought is the very essence of deterioration of a brain. | 1:12:51 而我在问的是：只要这个大脑、我们的大脑 仍是机械化的， 那么这或许就是造成堕落衰退的主要因素。 这种机械化的过程就是「思想」， 思想是机械化的。 我们是否看到了这点？ 你们也许会发明出最令人惊叹的引擎， 但它仍旧是思想的运动。 你或许可以打坐，闭上眼睛去沉思神明， 但这仍然是机械化的。 或者你可能会说，“我将会去修炼， 我将会静坐， 我会让自己臣服于某个 留着胡子或者没胡子的人”， 而这也是机械化的。 1:13:54 因此，任何思想的运动都是机械化的。 而我们在说：这就是堕落退化的实质。 因为它促使我们去斗争。 对吧？ 我们是充满竞争性的， 我们想要达到，我们想要实现， 我们想要成为成功人士 ——这些全都是思想的运动， 还有「认同」，等等 等等。 所以，「思想」就是大脑堕落退化的本质。 |
| 1:14:41 Q: Thought is ‘me.’ | 1:14:41 提问者：思想就是“我”。 |
| 1:14:47 K: Thought is ‘me.’ | 1:14:47 克：思想就是“我”。 |
| 1:14:54 Q: But is it not possible that there is, within the field of thought, another area where thought is organic and living? Is thought generally just… | 1:14:54 提问者：但有没有可能 在思想的范畴中，存在着另一个区域， 在其中思想是自然且有生命力的？ 思想通常来说是否只是 |
| 1:15:08 K: Sir, that means we have to go into the question of what is thought. What is thought? If you had no memory, you wouldn’t be able to think. Memory is the accumulation of experience as knowledge. Right? That is obvious, sir. No? Please, this is... even the most profound scientist says this, so please, accept it! If you want to accept the specialists. But you can observe your own brain in operation. | 1:15:08 克：先生，这意味着我们必须要来探究一下 “什么是思想？”的问题。 什么是思想呢？ 如果你没有记忆，你就无法去思考了。 「记忆」就是积累那种作为“知识”的经验。 对吧？ 这是显而易见的，先生。 不是？ 拜托了，这是 即使是最顶级的科学家 也是这么说的， 所以请你们也接受它吧！ ——如果你们愿意接受“专家”观点的话。 但你也可以去观察一下 你自己大脑的运作。 |
| 1:16:09 So, if that is so, then, what is one to do? You understand? Any movement of thought deteriorates the brain – any movement. Right? | 1:16:09 所以，如果是这样的话， 那么，我们该怎么做呢？ 你们理解了吗？ 任何思想的运动都会导致大脑堕落衰退 ——任何思想运动。是吧？ |
| 1:16:37 Q: How can we live without thinking? | 1:16:37 提问者：我们又怎么可能没有思考而生活呢？ |
| 1:16:41 K: How can we live without thinking? We have been through all this, sir! I’ll tell you. Isn’t it time to stop? | 1:16:41 克：我们又怎么可能没有思考而生活呢？ 这些东西我们都已经详细讲过了，先生！ 我再和你讲一下吧。 演讲时间是不是快结束了？ |
| 1:16:53 Q: (Inaudible) | 1:16:53 提问者：（听不见的声音） |
| 1:16:56 K: Quarter to twelve. | 1:16:56 克：11点45分了。 |
| 1:16:58 Q: What is one to do? | 1:16:58 提问者：我们该怎么做呢？ |
| 1:17:03 K: Would you listen if I tell you? | 1:17:03 克：如果我告诉你的话，你会听吗？ |
| 1:17:05 Q: Yes. Very attentively, all of us. | 1:17:05 提问者：会的，我们大家都会很专心地听的。 |
| 1:17:16 K: I have already told you! I’ve already told you. So, you haven’t listened. | 1:17:16 克：可我已经和你们讲过这个了！ 我已经告诉过你们了。 所以，你们并没有在聆听。 |
| 1:17:33 Q: Now you said, ’What is one to do?’ | 1:17:33 提问者：可你现在又在问“我们该怎么做？” |
| 1:17:35 K: Wait, wait. I have already told you. Either I’m an idiot saying I’ve already told you, when I haven’t, or a liar or you haven’t listened. So, would you kindly listen, again? | 1:17:35 克：等一下，等等。我已经告诉过你们了。 要么我是一个白痴，因为我说“我已经告诉过你们了” ——然而事实上我并没有， 或者我在说谎； 要么就是你们并没有认真听。 所以，你们可以再好好听一下吗？ |
| 1:17:55 That means listen to find out, listen with care, with affection, not saying, ‘Well, I’ve heard this before.’ If you have heard it before and I repeat it again, you say, ‘I’m bored.’ But if you have listened, tested, acted, found out, you will never be bored. Every time you test it, there’s something new taking place. And if you merely say, ‘Yes, I understand, you have said so and so, and you’re repeating yourself, I’m bored, or semi-bored,’ which means you have not tested it, you have not experimented, looked, gone into it, and if you discover something you want to go into it more and more and more, and more, there’s never a moment of boredom. 1:19:05 It’s like those research people, they’re never bored, they’re at it from morning till night because they want to discover something new, new, new. | 1:17:55 这意味着通过聆听去发现， 用心去聆听，带着情感去聆听， 而不是说“唉，这个我之前已经听过了”。 如果你之前已经听过了， 然后我再重复一遍它的话， 那你就会说“我有点厌烦了”。 但如果你已经聆听了它、检验了它、 实践了它，并有所发现了， 那你就永远不会感到厌烦。 因为每次当你检验它时， 都会有一些全新的东西发生。 而如果你只是说，“是的，我懂的， 你曾经说过这个那个， 你只是在重复自己的话， 我感到厌烦了，或者有点儿厌烦了”， 这就意味着你并没有去检验它， 你还没有去试验过、观察过、探究过它， 而如果你发现了某个事物， 你就会想要不断地去深入它、再深入它， 所以永远不会有“厌烦”的时刻。 1:19:05 就像那些科研人员， 他们做研究永远不会感到厌烦， 他们会从早上研究到晚上， 因为他们想要发现更多、更多新的东西。 |
| 1:19:22 When we are confronted with this enormous, complex problem, which is that thought in its very nature and structure is the major factor of the deterioration of the brain, from that you ask, what is one to do? Right? Please, listen. Who is asking this question? Thought is asking that question. Right? So, as long as you ask the question, which is, thought says, ‘What am I to do? ’, then thought says, ‘I must find an action which will get rid of my routine, my mechanical processes. How am I to stop thinking? I can’t, in life I must think.’ Of course, you must think. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be here and I wouldn’t be here. 1:20:53 So, as long as thought has any form of movement, whatever it does will be the factor of deterioration of the brain. Now, if you really understand that, really see the truth of it, you’re finished. Then you have placed thought in its right place. Which is, thought being the outcome of knowledge, memory, experience, thought is necessary to drive a car, to take a bus to go home, to go to the factory, but if the brain realises that thought is the factor that is making it deteriorate, then it says, ‘All right, I’ve understood this, I’ve got it,’ then we can go into much deeper things. You follow? Now, we are all surface. | 1:19:22 当我们面对这个巨大且复杂的问题 ——也就是思想的本质与结构 它就是导致大脑堕落衰退的主要因素， 由此你便会问：那么我们该怎么做呢？ 对吧？ 那就请听好了。 是谁在问这个问题呢？ 正是「思想」在问这个问题。 是吧？ 所以，只要你还是在问这个问题， 也就是，当「思想」问了“我该怎么办？ ”以后， 它就会说“我必须要找到一种行动， 它可以让我摆脱掉 例行公事和机械化的过程。 所以我要如何才能停止思考呢？ 可我无法停止它，我在生活中必须得思考。 ” 当然了，你必须要思考。 否则的话，你就不会在这里了， 而我也不会出现在这里了。 1:20:53 所以，只要思想还是有任何形式的运动， 那它所做的任何事都会成为 造成大脑堕落退化的因素。 现在，如果你真的理解了它， 真的看到了这个真相， 那你就没啥问题了。 然后你就会把「思想」放置在 它正确合理的位置上。 也就是说：思想是知识、记忆和经验的产物， 所以对于驾驶汽车、 乘坐公交车回家或者前往工厂来说， 思想是必不可少的， 但如果大脑意识到 「思想」也是造成它堕落退化的因素， 那么它就会说，“好了，我已经理解这点了， 我已经明白它了”， 然后我们就可以去探究 更为深层次的东西了。 你们跟上了吗？ 现在我们都是浮于表面的。 |
| 1:22:19 So, the positive action of thought, to which we’re all accustomed to, is the factor of deterioration. The non-action of thought, which is thought living in its right place, then the brain can never deteriorate. That’s enough. | 1:22:19 所以，那种我们都已习惯的 思想“积极正面性”的行动， 它就是导致堕落退化的因素。 而当思想“不作为”时， 也就是当思想只是待在 它正确合适的位置上， 那么大脑就永远不会堕落衰退了。 讲到这里就够了吧。 |
