克里希那穆提 - 「自我中心关注」的结构

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA78T1 - 「自我中心关注」的结构第一次公开演讲瑞士萨嫩 1978年7月9日
0:22 I'm so sorry the weather is so bad. It isn’t our fault.	0:22 非常抱歉，今天天气真的很糟糕。但这并不是我们的错。
0:40 As we are going to have seven talks and five discussions, I think we should go into things very carefully, deliberately, perhaps in greater detail, taking time, going into all our problems and trying to find out if there is any solution, to all of them. So, those who may have heard me before, please, have patience.	0:40 由于我们将会有七场演讲和五次讨论会，所以我认为我们应该非常小心和深思熟虑地去探究各种事物，或许可以非常细致入微地去探究，花费一些时间，去探讨我们所有的问题，然后试着去发现：对于我们所有的问题，是否有任何解决之道。所以，那些以前也许听过我演讲的人，请你们保持耐心。
1:32 I think most of us are concerned with ourselves, either desperately or casually or neurotically. Those who are concerned, widely, in relation to the world and themselves, to their little family, their responsibility to that family, to their children, and those who are already so neurotically conditioned, all of us, in different degrees and different depths, are concerned with ourselves, not only physically – having enough money, food, clothes, shelter, which is perhaps fairly easy to come by – but it is much more the concern, psychologically which we are going to discuss, talk over together and, perhaps, then we shall be able to find our relationship to the world and to each other.	1:32 我相信我们大多数人都很关心自己，要么是极度的关心，要么是偶尔随便关心下，要么是关心得已经有点神经质了。还有些人关心的范围比较广，他们会关心这个世界和他们自己，关心他们自己那个小小的家庭，以及他们对于家庭、对于自己孩子的责任，另外一些人，他们的关心则会受到神经质倾向的制约，我们所有的人，在不同的程度和深度上，都在关心着我们自己，不仅仅是关心外在物质上的事物 ——拥有足够多的金钱、食物、衣服和住所，这些东西也许是相当容易获得的—— 我们更为关心的是心理领域的事物，而我们将会一起来讨论和探讨它，然后我们或许就可以发现我们和这个世界的关系，以及我们彼此之间的关系了。
3:24 Why, psychologically, we are so concerned about ourselves? I think this question must be asked. Either you put this question to yourselves, seriously, trying to find out a true, correct answer, or you put that question to yourself, rather superficially, casually. Only when there is a vital problem then you are concerned with yourself, or when there is a crisis, or when there is some incident or accident that brings about misery, confusion, uncertainty, then you put that question to yourself. And so, according to our conditioning, according to our temperament and experience, according to our economic or social conditioning, we question about ourselves, this tremendous concern. Why?	3:24 为什么在心理层面，我们会如此地关心自己呢？我认为这个问题必须要问一下。要么你们是很认真严肃地向自己提出了这个问题，试图去找到一个真实的、正确的答案，要么你是相当肤浅表面地、漫不经心地问了自己这个问题，只有当出现了一个生死攸关的问题时，你才会开始关心起你自己，或者当有了危机时，或者当某件事情或意外事件带来了痛苦、困惑和不确定时，那时你就会向自己提出这个问题了。因此，我们会根据自己的局限、根据自己的性格和经历、根据自己的经济条件或社会状况，我们会质疑我们这种极度的关心。为什么？
5:08 If I may point out, once again and I hope you will not mind, that we are sharing this thing, together. There is no speaker. The speaker is yourself, the speaker is only voicing your own thoughts, your own feelings, your own conditioning, your own unhappiness, sorrow, misery, fears and so on. So, actually, though the speaker sits on a platform for convenience, in actual, psychological fact, there is no speaker, only you and I are examining ourselves, exploring into ourselves, greatly, deeply – or if you are very, very serious, much more profoundly. So, please, bear in mind, if I may point out, that you are examining, exploring, investigating together, that there is no speaker, as such. And I mean this, very seriously.	5:08 如果允许我再次指出的话 ——我希望你们不会介意—— 那就是：我们是在一起分享这件事。并不存在什么“演讲者”。 “演讲者”就是你自己，眼前的这位演讲者只是在把你们的想法说出来而已，把你们的感受、你们的局限、你们的不快乐、痛苦、不幸、恐惧等等说出来。所以实际上，尽管这位演讲者为了方便起见而坐在讲台上，但事实上——这是一个心理层面的事实 ——那就是“演讲者”并不存在，只有「你」和「我」在检视着自己，在深入地、深刻地探索我们自己，如果你是非常非常认真严肃的 ——那这种探索就会更为深入。所以，如果允许我指出这一点的话 ——请你们牢记那就是：你们是在一起检视、探索和探究，这里并没有什么“演讲者”，就是这样。我是非常认真地说这话的。
7:09 So, we’re asking why most human beings, right throughout the world, are so concerned with themselves – with their relationship with another, with their unhappiness, their psychological ugliness, their schizophrenic or various complexes – or they’re asking themselves if they can ever find something everlasting, beautiful, true. And, in their search, those who are serious get caught up in things like religion, caught up with the various gurus, caught up in some belief or in some idea or in some conclusion. All this indicates, doesn’t it, that, essentially, we are concerned about ourselves, and therefore, we, as an individual, or as a human being, become the centre of the universe, because we are so absorbed, we are so committed, we are so entangled, we are so desperately wanting something or other happiness, enlightenment, to behave properly, what is correct action. 9:16 Or, if you are neurotically minded, that neurosis becomes stronger and stronger, because you’re concerned about yourself. And there’re all those psychological priests who are trying to help you. So, one observes this fact. Why is it that human beings are so self-centred, so appallingly selfish, so caught up in their own anxieties, in their own longings, loneliness, despair and so on? This is an ordinary, daily fact. Some of us may be willing to face it, and others may be evading it, or taking a flight away from ourselves and identifying ourselves with a nation, with a god, with a priest, with something or other. 10:48 But this identification is still the concern about oneself. Right? So, why? Because the more we are concerned about ourselves, the more our capacity to comprehend the whole becomes impossible. It’s like a mountain stream that is roaring down the hill, but man has held it with cement and rock, not to overflow. And we are doing the same thing with ourselves. This concern with ourselves has a certain quality of energy. And that energy is bound, carefully canalised, and being caught in that, the more we are concerned with ourselves the narrower, the more rigid the walls become. 12:27 You must have observed this.	7:09 所以，我们正在询问：为什么全世界绝大多数的人都是如此地关心他们自己 ——关心他们和别人的关系，关心他们的烦恼忧愁、他们丑陋的内心、他们的精神分裂或各种「情结」 ——或者他们会问自己：是否可能找到某个美丽、真实与恒久的事物。然后，在他们寻找的过程中，那些态度认真的人，就会陷入于诸如「宗教」之类的事物中，受困于各种「古鲁」，受困于某种信仰、理念或结论之中。而所有这些都表明：本质上而言，我们都只关心自己，难道不是吗？因此，我们作为个体、或者作为一个人，我们就变成了这个宇宙的中心，因为我们是如此地沉浸于自我、如此的专注于自我、如此地陷入于自我中，我们是如此极度地渴望某个东西：渴望「幸福」、渴望「开悟」，渴望做出正确的行动，想要知道什么才是正确的行为。 9:16 或者，如果你的头脑有点神经质，那么这种神经症就会变得越来越严重，因为你只关心你自己。然后就会冒出来所有那些心理领域的“牧师”，他们会试图帮助你。所以，我们已经观察到了这个事实。那么为什么人类会如此的自我中心、如此令人震惊的自私、如此深陷入于他们自己的各种焦虑、渴望、孤独和绝望等等之中呢？这是很常见的、日常生活中的事实。我们中有些人也许愿意去面对这些事实，而另外一些人可能会回避它，或者逃避自身的事实，然后把自己认同于某个国家、某个上帝、某个牧师，这样或那样的东西， 10:48 然而这种「认同」仍旧是在“关心自己”。对吧？所以，为什么会这样呢？因为我们越是关心我们自己，我们就越不可能会有了解「整体」的能力。它就像是一条山间的溪流沿着山坡呼啸而下，然而人们却用水泥和岩石阻挡了它，不让它流出来。而我们也正在对自己做着同样的事。这种「自我关心」具有某种能量品质。然而那股能量却被束缚了，被小心翼翼地疏导了，由于我们正深陷于其中，所以我们越是关心自己，这堵“围墙”就会变得越狭隘、越坚硬。 12:27 你们一定也观察到了这点。
12:33 So, we are going to investigate, together, why human beings throughout the world are so eagerly, so subtly, in a very, very refined way, if they are not brutish, if they are not callous, if they are not indifferent, in very, very subtle ways, they are concerned with their centre. And that centre, with its enormous energy, either brings about a catastrophe, or there is a possibility of breaking down these narrow walls which we have built, artificially, around ourselves – they may be broken down and, therefore, the release of tremendous energy.	12:33 所以，我们将要一起来探究为什么全世界的人都会如此急切地、如此微妙地、以非常非常文雅有教养的方式来关心自己这个“中心”。如果他们不是粗野之人、如果他们不是冷酷无情和漠不关心的的话，他们就会以非常非常微妙隐晦的方式来关心他们自己这个“中心”。而这个“中心”，它带着巨大的能量，这股能量要么带来灾难，要么它也有可能打破那些狭隘的“围墙” ——这道“围墙”是我们在自己周围人为地建立起来的，但它们也许可以被推翻，从而释放出巨大惊人的能量。
14:05 So, that is what we are talking about: whether it is possible for human beings, wherever they are, socially, economically, in the various forms, whether it is possible to break down the narrow walls which man, you, human beings throughout the world, have built round themselves. And whether it is possible without any effort, not intellectually, not theoretically, hypothetically, but actually, in our daily life, whether it’s possible to break down this self-centred concern with its conditioning can it ever be broken down, and therefore releasing an extraordinary quality of energy. 15:27 And that energy is needed, when there are no walls at all, is needed for meditation, for the enquiry into what is truth, for the ending of sorrow and discovering what is compassion, love.	14:05 所以，这就是我们正在谈论的东西：即对于人类来说——无论他们身处何地、处于怎样不同形态的社会与经济状况中—— 人类是否有可能去打破那些狭隘的“围墙”，这“围墙”是人类、是你、是全世界的人在自己周围建造起来的。而我们是否可能毫不费力地 ——不是从思想智力上、不是从理论上、不是去假想，而是在我们的日常生活中，实实在在地去打破它，我们是否可能去打破这种以自我为中心的关注及其制约，它有可能被打破吗？由此才能释放出非凡惊人的能量品质。 15:27 而我们需要有这种能量，当完全没有了“围墙”时，我们需要利用这种能量去冥想、去探询什么是「真理」、去结束「苦难」、去发现什么才是「慈悲」、什么才是「爱」。
16:10 So, I hope we are serious enough, when you have taken the trouble to come here, in this dreadful climate – at least, this year. So, let us be serious, because this is not an entertainment, this is not an intellectual amusement, a romantic, intellectual investigation. We have to put aside, I’m afraid, all our sentiments, all our romanticism, imagination, sensations, the desire for more experience, but face the central fact. I do not know if you can face it We are saying, I do not know if we can face it because we are very clever at hiding behind a facade of theories, opinions, judgements and asserting and clinging to them, aggressively, passively, or unconsciously. 18:12 So, it’s going to be very difficult to explore easily, without any compulsion, without any pressure, without any reward or punishment, just to go into ourselves and look, and find out, if we can, why you and human beings right throughout the world, have made this a central issue, central problem. And that means having the capacity to look. To look without any distortion, because every idea, every conclusion, every opinion, every experience is a distorting factor. Right? Please understand this. Your very experience, whether it be sexual, various types of experiences stored up as memory, in investigation, in observing, become a distorting factor, obviously. 20:16 Those of us who have very strong opinions, aggressively so, or judgements, again, they become factors of distortion. And if you believe – whatever you believe in – according to your particular conditioning, that belief, with all its associations, with all its tradition, with all the past, becomes a factor which will prevent clear observation.	16:10 所以我希望我们都是足够认真严肃的，毕竟你们不辞辛劳地来到了这里，还是在这种糟糕的天气下 ——至少今年的天气很糟糕。所以让我们都认真严肃一些，因为这次演讲并不是一次娱乐活动，它不是一种智力消遣，一种浪漫幻想的、思维智力上的研究。我恐怕我们必须要将自己所有的多愁善感都搁置一旁，将我们所有的浪漫主义、幻觉想象、各种感觉，以及对更多经验的渴求都放在一边，然后去面对那个核心事实。我不知道你们是否能够去面对它，我们刚才在说：我不知道我们是否能够去面对它，因为我们会非常聪明地躲藏在各种理论、观点和判断的“门面”背后，然后作出各种断言并坚守它们，我们这么做可能是积极主动的、可能是被动的、也可能是无意识的。 18:12 所以，我们便很难轻松容易地去探索，没有任何强迫、没有任何压力、没有任何奖励或惩罚，只是去探究我们自己，然后去看、去发现我们是否能够面对它，为什么你和全世界的人们，让它变成了一个核心议题、核心问题。而这意味着拥有那种去观察的能力。去没有任何扭曲地观察，因为每一个想法、每一个结论、每一个观点、每一个经验，都是造成扭曲的因素。对吧？请理解这一点。你的经验本身 ——不管它是性方面的经验、还是其他各种类型的经验，它们作为「记忆」被储存起来了，所以在探究或观察的过程中，它们显然就会变成导致「扭曲」的因素。 20:16 我们中那些有着非常强硬的、咄咄逼人的观点或者判断的人，他们同样也会变成造成扭曲的因素。而如果你相信…… ——无论你信仰的是什么—— 你的信仰是根据你特定的局限而来的，那种信仰，及其所有相关联的事物、所有的传统、所有的「过去」，它们变成了阻碍清晰观察的因素。
21:11 So, in order to enquire, deeply, into this enormous, complex problem, there must be freedom to observe, not what you think and I think, what you feel or I feel, what your conclusions are, or mine, none of those have any importance when observing, in seeing, clearly, why human beings are so desperately concerned with themselves. Right?	21:11 所以，为了能够深入地去探询这个巨大且复杂的问题，我们必须能够自由地去观察，不是“你怎么认为”或者“我怎么认为”、 “你觉得如何”或者“我觉得如何”、 “你的结论是什么”或者“我的结论是什么”，在清晰地观察和审视 “为什么人类会如此极度地关心自己”的过程中, 上述这些东西都是不重要的。对吧？
22:19 When you listen to these statements of the speaker, do you actually listen or do you make a conclusion or an idea about what you hear? Hai capito? Do you actually listen to what is said? Or in listening you have made an abstraction of it, and that abstraction becomes an idea with which you agree or disagree, or if you agree, argue about that idea or, if you disagree, you throw it out. But, actually, you are not listening. So, one has to find out if you’re listening, to find out, for yourself, why this narrowing, resisting expenditure of energy, which is becoming more and more narrow, more and more selfish. 24:02 And that selfishness is either so domesticated and you say it is not selfish, or you have identified yourself with something greater and say, ‘That is great, I’m not great, therefore, my concern is with that, not with this.’ But that identification is this, in a bigger way, or a smaller way.	22:19 当你聆听演讲者的这些陈述时，你是真的在听吗，还是你会就你所听到的内容得出某种结论或观点？你们明白了吗？（意大利语）你们真的在聆听对方所说的话吗？还是说，在聆听的时候，你们把听到的内容抽象化了。而这种“抽象化”形成了一种观点 ——而你们会同意或不同意这种观点，如果你们同意，就会就这一观点展开争论，如果你们不同意，就会把这个观点扔掉。然而事实上，你们并没有在「聆听」。所以，你们必须去搞清楚：你们是否在聆听？去亲自搞清楚：为什么这种「狭隘化」、这种「抵抗」、这种能量的消耗，它们正在变得越来越狭隘、越来越自私。 24:02 而那种「自私」，它要么是如此地被驯化了，以至于你会说：它并不是自私，要么你会把自己认同于某个更伟大的事物，然后说，“那个东西是伟大的，但我并不伟大，所以我要关心那个东西，而不是这个东西。 ” 然而你所与之认同的还是“这个东西” ——只不过是以或宏大或狭小的方式与之认同罢了。
24:43 I hope you are following all this. As we said, there’s no speaker. It’s really a marvellous idea, that there is no speaker. I’ve just found that out – that we are looking at ourselves in the mirror, and the mirror is telling you the whole story. But you must know how to look in the mirror – not how to interpret what you see in the mirror, or how to act what you see in the mirror, but if you know how to look, that very observation will bring about right action, everything falls in its right place. This is not a rhetorical statement. It’s an actual fact.	24:43 我希望你们都跟上了所有这些。就如我们所说：这里并没有什么“演讲者”。这真的是一个很美妙的理念 ——那就是：并不存在什么演讲者。我也是刚刚才发现这一点 ——我们只是在镜子中观看我们自己，这面镜子正在向你讲述所有的故事。但你必须知道如何去看这面镜子 ——不是如何去诠释你在镜中所看到的东西，或者如何去处理你在镜中看到的东西，而是：如果你知道如何去「看」，那么这种「观察」本身就会带来「正确的行动」，然后一切事物就会被置于它正确的位置上。这并不是一种修辞性的表达。这是一个真切的事实。
26:00 So, we are enquiring, seriously, why human beings, with this marvellous world around them: the beauty, the extraordinary nature, the quality of water, the birds, the sea and the land, and the sky and the heavens above them, why they have reduced everything to this narrow little atom, small thing, and writing enormous books about it, and how to get rid of it, what to do, practise, meditate, sacrifice, deny, starve, fast, everything to get rid of the small ‘me.’ The futility of sacrifice, the futility of denial of the ‘me’ and identifying itself with something else, with the family, with the nation, with a belief, with a god, with international... umpteen forms of identification, 27:46 will not solve the problem. What will dissolve this thing that is so corrupting, that is always seeking power, position, authority, grabbing for itself, everything, utilising knowledge as a means of further success, further power, further indulgence and so on?	26:00 所以，我们正在认真严肃地探询为什么当人类身处于这个无比美好的世界中时：这个世界有着美丽、有着非凡惊人的大自然、水的品质，那些鸟儿、大海、陆地，天空，以及天空之上的苍穹，为什么人类会把这一切缩减为这个狭隘渺小的原子、这个卑微之物，然后写了无数关于它的书：如何摆脱掉它（“我”），该怎么做 ——人们修炼、冥想、奉献、否定、挨饿、斋戒，人们做了一切事情来摆脱掉那个渺小的“我”。然而“奉献”是徒劳无用的，否定那个“我”也是徒劳无用的 ——你会否定“我”，然后把自己认同于某个别的东西，认同于家庭、认同于国家、认同于某个信仰、认同于上帝、认同于国际…… ，无数形式的认同 27:46 ——然而这些都无法解决问题。能够消除这个东西（“我”）的是…… ——这个东西是如此的腐败堕落，它总是在寻求权力、地位、权威，拼命地为自己攫取一切事物，利用「知识」作为一种手段来获得更多的成功、更多的权力、更多的放纵，等等？
28:51 Now, can we factually observe? – not only the idea of ‘me,’ the idea of the centre but also, observe the movement of the senses, the various senses, which is actually sensations. These sensations, touch, all the rest of it, these sensations exist, are actual, they must be, you cannot deny sensations. But when thought identifies itself with those sensations then the structure of the centre is beginning to be formed. 30:15 Capito? Right? Please, this is not intellectual observation, just ordinary, daily fact, if you observe the senses. One likes a particular form of food, drink, smoke, drugs and thought then identifies itself with that particular food, the taste of it, the smell of it, the delight of it, and with that identification, in that identification, the centre is formed. That’s obvious.	28:51 现在来看，我们能够实事求是地去观察吗？ ——不只是去观察“我”的概念、关于这个“中心”的概念，同样也要去观察「感官」的活动，各种感官（的活动） ——它实际上就是「感觉」。这些「感觉」——比如「触觉」等等这些，这些「感觉」是真实存在的，它们必然存在，你是无法去否定「感觉」的。然而当「思想」将自己认同于那些感觉，那么那个“中心”的结构就会开始被搭建起来。 30:15 （意大利语）明白了吗？是这样吧？请注意，这并不是一种思维智力层面的观察，如果你观察一下感官活动，你会发现它们是日常生活中很平常的事实。我们会喜欢某种特定形式的食物、酒类、烟草和药物，然后，思想会将自己认同于那种特别的食物，它的味道、它的气味、它带来的愉悦感，而借助于这种「认同」、在这种「认同」之中，那个“中心”便被构建起来了。这是显而易见的事情。
31:26 Now, can you observe – please, listen to this, it’s very interesting, if you go into this – can you observe the movement of the sensations, whether it be sexual, whether it be taste, hearing or seeing, can you observe the movement of those ordinary, natural sensations without identifying? You understand? Do you understand this? Am I saying something strange, or neurotic, or bizarre? It’s very important to understand this because we’ll go into this problem of identification. 32:39 Where there is no identification, there is no centre. Right? It is this constant identification, with my senses, with my body, with my thoughts – you follow? – the whole movement of identification, identification being attachment, inseparable attachment and with all its associations, and so this identification is a movement of energy and that energy becomes more and more limited, which is the centre. Right?	31:26 那么，你能否去观察…… ——请听好它，如果你深入探究它的话，这会是非常有趣的—— 你能否观察各种感官的活动 ——不管它是「性」方面的活动，还是味觉、听觉或视觉方面的活动，你能否观察这些平常的、自然的感官活动，而不与之认同呢？你理解了吗？你们明白它了吗？我难道是在说一些奇怪的、神经质的、或者古怪的东西吗？理解这一点是非常重要的，因为我们将会来深入探究这个关于「认同」的问题， 32:39 当没有了「认同」，就不会有“中心”了。对吧？正是这种持续不断的「认同」，认同于我的感官、认同于我的身体、认同于我的思想——你们跟上了吗？ —— 所有全部的「认同」的运动，「认同」就是「执著」，难以分离的「执著」及其所有相关联的事物，因此，这种「认同」是一种能量的运动，而那种「能量」却变得越来越有限了 ——它成为了那个“中心”。对吧？
33:40 So, we’re asking, is there an observation of the senses, without any form of thought identifying itself with a particular sensation? You understand? Sensations are natural. If you have no sensations, you’re utterly paralysed – perhaps most of us are, only in one particular direction, sexual or another direction. But we’re talking of the movement of all senses, not one particular sense. If you see the logic of it, the reason of it that the moment thought identifies itself with a particular sensation, or with all the sensations, that identification is the movement of building this vast energy into a narrow channel. 35:11 Right? Have I explained? Have I made it clear? Not I – there’s no speaker. Only in conversation between ourselves, as two human beings, we are discovering this. You are discovering, not the speaker. There’s no speaker. So, you are discovering that any form of identification, not only with the senses, with the family, with the nation, with ideas, with conclusions and so on, is the beginning of narrowing down this vast energy and limiting itself, therefore, resisting the vast movement of life. Right? May I take a breath?	33:40 所以，我们正在问：是否存在这样一种对于感官活动的观察 ——在其中，思想不会将自己认同于任何一种感官活动？你们听懂了吗？感官活动是很自然的事情。如果你没有感官活动，那你就已经彻底瘫痪了 ——我们大多数人或许都是“瘫痪”的，只不过是在某个特定方向上 ——比如「性」方面，或者其他方面。但我们正在谈论的是所有感官的活动，而非某个特定的感官。如果你看到了这其中的逻辑性、这其中的理性 ——那就是一旦思想将自己认同于特定的感官活动或者所有的感官活动，这种「认同」就是一种将这股巨大能量汇聚到一条狭窄通道里的运动。 35:11 对吧？我是不是已经解释了它？我把它说清楚了吗？不是“我”——因为并不存在“演讲者”。存在的只有我们之间 ——我们两个「人」之间——的对话，我们正在发现它。你正在发现它——而不是演讲者。因为并不存在什么“演讲者”。所以，你们发现了：任何形式的「认同」 ——不仅仅是与「感官活动」的认同、与家庭的认同、与国家的认同、与观点理念的认同、与结论的认同等等—— 它们会开始缩减这股巨大的能量，然后自我约束，从而阻挡了生命的广阔运动。对吧？我可以喘口气吗？
36:45 So, we’re asking, as you’re sitting there, can you observe your senses without any identification? Identification with the body – look, it’s very, very serious what we’re going into. If you don’t want to listen, don’t listen, think about something else. But if you listen, listen with your heart, with your mind, with your whole being, because we are going into this question of releasing the tremendous energy, which is now canalised into a very, very small, narrow prison, from which we act. And there is not only the identification with the senses, therefore, with the body, then, identification with the name – of course. 38:28 Even if you give yourself a new name, or a new number that’s still identification, which the monks do and so on. Why does thought constantly identify itself with something? You understand my question? Which you’re doing: my wife, my son, my family, my girl, my boy, my house, my quality, I have experienced so much, I must hold on to that experience, I identify myself with Christ, with Krishna, you know, the whole gamut of objects of identification. Why does thought always identify with something or other?	36:45 所以，当你们坐在这里的时候，我们正在问：你能否观察你的感官活动，而没有任何「认同」呢？认同于你的身体 ——你瞧，我们正在探讨的东西是非常非常严肃的。如果你们不想听的话，那就不要听，你们可以去想想别的东西。但如果你们在听的话，那就请用心聆听、用你的头脑去听、全身心地去听，因为我们正在探究这个关于“释放巨大能量”的问题，这股能量如今被引导到了一个非常狭小和狭隘的监狱中，然后我们在这个监狱中做出行动。此外，我们并不只有与感官活动的认同 ——由此便会与「身体」相认同，然后就会与「名字」相认同 ——当然了。 38:28 即使你给了你自己一个新的名字，或者一个新的编号 ——这仍然是「认同」，僧侣们就会这样做，等等。为什么思想会持续不断地将自己认同于某个事物呢？你们理解我的问题吗？这就是你们正在做的事情：我的妻子、我的儿子、我的家庭、我的女朋友、我的男朋友、我的房子、我的品德，我的经历是如此丰富，我必须紧紧抓住这些经验不放，我将自己认同于基督、认同于奎师那，你知道的，所有各种各样的你所与之认同的对象。为什么思想总是会认同于这样或那样的事物？
39:59 Don’t you, if I may ask, not as a speaker, you’re asking yourself, don’t you ask yourself why? Why do I identify myself with the form, with the name, with all the experiences which I have gathered, or the future identification? Why? Why does thought do this all the time? My house, my wife, my belief, my god, my country, I am British, you are French, I’m German, you’re Russian – you follow? Why? Is it because thought, being in constant flux – please, find out, I’m just enquiring, find out – being in constant flux, movement, needs security about something? 41:41 Enquire, please don’t… You’re enquiring, asking yourself this. When you say, ‘It’s my house,’ that gives you certainty, stability, security. When thought identifies itself with a house, it is necessary – isn’t it? – it gives it security, shelter, safety, protection, the physical identification, with the house, gives it security. But watch it. That movement of identification with a physical necessity, is taken over, psychologically. Right? There it is necessary, but here, it may not be necessary, at all. 43:18 But we are constantly doing this – from the necessity – having clothes, though I may not identify myself with my trousers, or shirt or blouse or whatever one wears, but the attachment, the physical need and from that need, move into a psychological ground, where you say, ‘It is necessary there, too’ – and it may not be. You’re following this? I wonder if you are.	39:59 你们难道就没有…… ——如果允许我问一下的话，不是眼前这个演讲者问，而是你们在问自己，你们难道就没有问过自己“为什么”吗？为什么我要将自己认同于我的模样、我的名字，认同于所有我所积累聚集起来的经验，或者认同于「未来」？为什么呢？为什么思想会一直做这样的事呢？我的房子、我的妻子、我的信仰、我的上帝、我的国家，我是英国人、你是法国人，我是德国人、你是俄国人 ——你们跟上了吗？为什么？是不是因为思想处于持续不断的流动变化中 ——请你们去搞清楚这一点，我只是在探询、在发现它—— 思想处于持续不断的变化和运动中，所以它需要「某个事物」给予的安全感？ 41:41 去探询这点，请不要你们正在探询它，正在问自己这个问题。当你说，“这是我的房子”的时候，它给了你确定感、安稳感、安全感。当思想将自己认同于一套房子时房子也是需要的——不是吗？ —— 房子给思想带来了安全感、它提供了庇护、安全和保护，这种外在物质上的、与房子的认同，给予了思想安全感。但请你注意看一下。这种与外在物质上需求相认同的运动，在心理层面上被接管了。对吧？虽然它在外在物质领域是必需的，但在心理领域，它可能根本就不是什么必需品。 43:18 然而我们却在不断地做着这样的事 ——从那些必需品—— 能够有衣服穿，尽管我可能不会把自己认同于我的裤子、我的衬衫、我的短上衣，或者无论什么我身上穿的东西，然而那种「执著」，那种外在物质上的需求，那种「需求」却进入到了心理领域，然后你会说，“在心理领域，它也是必需的” ——但它可能并不是必需的。你们跟上它了吗？我不知道你们是否理解它了。
44:15 Doesn’t this take place always, generally, from the purely physical, the need for food, the need for clothes, the need for cleanliness, and all the rest of it, that movement spills over into the psychological area, and the spilling over from that to this, may be totally unnecessary, may be an illusion. There is only that and not this. I wonder if I’m making...? We’ll go into this, very carefully. After all, what is the ground, the area, the field of the psyche? You understand? We understand, more or less, the physical. One needs food, clothes and shelter, that’s obvious. 45:33 And the danger comes when we identify ourselves with that. We say, ‘It’s my clothes, it’s my property, don’t touch it.’ Now, that necessity has been identified by thought as ‘mine,’ and that same movement from the physical to the psychological: my experience, my desires, my longings – you understand? I wonder if you are understanding this. Because, you see, what we’re trying to point out is, there’s no speaker. In the mirror, if you observe very carefully, you might see that what is necessary, physically, that same idea has been brought over into the psychological realm and that has become much more important than the other. 47:21 One can have very little food, not be concerned, but don’t interfere with my power – I want position, I want this, I want that, psychologically – you understand what I’m saying? Are you discovering this, in the mirror, for yourselves? Or I am pointing it out and you observe it and accept it. That accepting is merely a form of persuasion, a form of pressure. Where there is pressure, acceptance, there’s no investigation.	44:15 这样的事不总是一直在发生着吗 ——从纯粹的外在物质层面的需求对食物、衣服和洁净的需求，等等这些，这种需求活动蔓延至心理领域，然而这种从“这里（外在物质层面）” 到“那里（心理层面）”的蔓延扩散也许是完全没必要的，它也许是一个幻觉。存在的只有“这里”，而没有“那里”。我不知道我是否已经……？我们将会非常小心仔细地来探究这点。从根本上讲，心理世界的根基、范围和土壤是什么呢？你们明白了吗？我们多多少少已经了解了外在物质上的需求。我们需要食物、衣服和住所 ——这是显而易见的。 45:33 然而当我们把自己与这种需求相认同的时候，危险便降临了。我们会说，“它”是我的衣服、它是我的财产，请不要碰它。你瞧，思想已经把这种需求认同为“我的”了，而同样的这种运动，从外在物质层面进入到了心理层面：我的经验、我的欲望、我的渴望 ——你们理解了吗？我不知道你们是否明白了它。因为你瞧，我们所试图指出的是：这里并没有什么“演讲者”。你只是在看一面镜子，如果你非常小心仔细地观察，你或许就会看到：我们所认为的外在物质上所必需的事物，同样的（必需品）想法，也被带入到了心理领域中，并且它变得远比外在物质上的必需品更为重要。 47:21 一个人可以只吃一点点东西，这没什么好担心的，但不要来妨碍干扰我的权力 ——因为我想要地位，在心理层面，我会想要这个或那个 ——你们理解我在说的东西吗？你们有没有亲自在镜子里去发现这一点？或者说我指出了它，而你们只是看了看它，然后便接受了。而这种「接受」仅仅只是“被说服”，只是迫于压力。当有了压力、接受，就不会有「探究」了。
48:13 So, we come to something else, which is, can you be free of pressure? You understand? To observe. The pressure of institutions. Right? The institution of the church, institution of a government, the institution of so many things. The word ‘institution’ comes from the Latin, so on, to stay, be put where it is, don’t move it. So, we are, generally, under great pressure of institutions. Perhaps, you may not be aware of it. But if you observe, you are. Institution, democratic, totalitarian, socialist... you follow? 49:23 This constant pressure. Then there’s the pressure of ideologies. Right? The ideal. Which is, perhaps, more deadly than the economic pressure. The pressure of theories. Right? Do you know all this? Are you aware of all this? The pressure of books, the pressure of knowledge, the pressure of authority, the pressure of a family, the pressure of the wife over the husband, girl and boy – this constant pressure. And the pressure of experience, of knowledge – do you understand? It isn’t just the pressure of somebody over you, government or somebody, but inwardly, this enormous pressure of having acquired experience, knowledge, and that knowledge is putting pressure all the time: do this, don’t do that, this is right, this is wrong, you must have more knowledge, is one aware of all this? 51:07 I’m afraid not. And the pressure of relationship. Right? We won’t go into all that. We will, a little later, as we go along.	48:13 所以，我们又触及到了另一个问题，也就是：你能够摆脱掉「压力」吗？你们理解了吗？去观察一下它。来自于「制度」的压力。对吧？教会的制度、政府的制度，如此多事物的制度。 “制度”这个词来自于拉丁语等等，它的意思是：待在原地，放回原处，不要动它。因此，通常来讲，我们都处于各种制度的巨大压力之下。你们或许还没有意识到它。但如果你观察下的话，你确实处于压力之下。民主的制度、极权主义者的制度、社会主义者的制度……你们跟上了吗？ 49:23 有着这种持续不断的压力。此外，我们还有着来自于「意识形态」的压力。对吧？也就是那些“理想”。而这种压力或许要比经济压力更为致命。它是来自于「理论」的压力。是吧？你们都知道这些吧？你们察觉到它了吗？来自于书本的压力、来自于知识的压力、来自于权威的压力、来自于家庭的压力、妻子给丈夫的压力、男女朋友之间的压力 ——有着这种持续不断的压力。还有来自于「经验」、「知识」的压力 ——你们理解了吗？它并不只是某人对你施加的压力 ——比如政府或者别的什么人，而是你的内在，有着这种巨大的压力，因为你已经获得了一些经验、知识，而那种「知识」一直在对你施加压力：要这样做，不要那样做，这是对的，那是错的，你必须要拥有更多的知识，你们觉察到所有这些了吗？ 51:07 我恐怕你们并没有。还有那种来自于「关系」的压力对吧？我们就不深入所有这些了。待会儿在我们继续讲下去的时候，我们会谈到它的。
51:25 So, we are saying, you cannot observe this extraordinary structure of the centre, the concern about the centre, and to observe that freely, without any pressure, there must be freedom to look. But most of us are under pressure. Most of us, when we observe, have a motive, the motive becomes the pressure. ‘When I observe, I must understand it, I must get beyond it, there must be a reward at the end of the beastly show.’ You understand? This great, constant pressure, through motive, through desire, through reward, avoiding punishment and so on, as long as there is that weight, observation into the cause why human beings have reduced themselves to such narrow, little human entities, so concerned about themselves, from morning till night. 53:11 Otherwise, you wouldn’t have gurus. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have priests and religions. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have all these enormous, complex, psychological priests – you understand? All that indicates, naturally, this concern about oneself.	51:25 所以，我们在说的是：你无法去观察那个“中心”的非凡结构，以及那种对于“中心”的关心，而要能够自由地、毫无压力地去观察，那就必须要有“「看」的自由”。然而我们大多数人都处于压力之下。如果我们观察一下，我们大多数人都会有一个动机，而这个动机就变成了压力。 “当我观察的时候，我必须要了解它，我必须要超越它，在这场可恶的表演结束的时候，我必须要有一个奖励回报。 ” 你们理解了吗？这种巨大的、持续不断的压力 ——它是由动机、欲望、奖励、避免惩罚等等所引发的，而只要还是存在这份重量，我们要去观察这件事的原因：那就是为什么人类会把自己降级为如此狭隘、渺小的人类个体，如此地关心他们自己——从早到晚一直关心着， 53:11 因为否则的话，你们就不会有那些古鲁了。否则的话，你们就不会有那些牧师和宗教了。否则的话，你们就不会有如此数量巨大、错综复杂的 “心理牧师”了——你们理解了吗？因为所有这些当然都暗示了对自我的关心。
53:51 And can one live without this concern, at all? Then, only, there is peace. Then, only, there is love and compassion. Where there is a centre, held by thought as the ‘me,’ in a narrow groove, there must be suffering, and the violence and the brutality, the cruelty, the hate, the whole of that is centred there. That’s an actual fact.	53:51 那么我们能够完全没有这种「关心」而生活吗？只有那时才会有「和平」。只有那时才会有「爱」与「慈悲」。当有了一个被思想固化为“我”、且被禁锢于狭窄轨道的“中心”，那就必然会有痛苦、以及暴力、野蛮、残忍、憎恨，所有这些东西都集中在那个东西上了。这是一个真切的事实。
54:54 Then, the next question is, is it possible to break it down? Not with a chisel and a hammer, as most of us are apt to do – psychological hammer, psychological chisel – making an effort, discipline, control, sacrifice, denying, resisting – which are all hammer. Right? So, we’re asking, is it possible to break it down, these walls that one has built around oneself, without a single movement of effort? Because if you make an effort, you are identifying yourself with what will happen when you break down the wall – you understand? Which is still another structure of the narrow self. 56:02 I wonder if you see all this! Yes? Right? So, can this be broken down? That’s the problem. That is really the central issue for all humanity. There is no other issue, politically, religiously, economically, for man to end this colossal self-centred thought, this subtle selfishness which breeds division, all the rest of it. That is the central issue. And that’s the central issue of religion, not all this circus that’s going on in the world, in churches, in mosques, in temples, in religious gatherings. The essence of religion is the ending of the self, totally, completely.	54:54 然后，接下来的问题就是：我们是否可能打破它呢？不是用凿子和锤子去打破—— 我们大多数人都会倾向于这么做，那种心理层面的“锤子”、心理层面的“凿子”，也就是做出努力、戒律、控制、奉献、否定、抵抗——所有这些都是“锤子”。对吧？所以我们正在问：是否可能打破我们在自己周围所建立起来的“围墙”，却不花费丝毫的努力？因为如果你做出努力，你就是在将自己认同于你打破“围墙”后将会发生的事物 ——你们理解了吗？而那个事物仍然是那个狭隘自我的另一种结构。 56:02 我不知道你们是否看到了这一切！看到了吗？是这样吧？所以，它能够被打破吗？这就是问题所在。这其实才是全人类所面临的核心议题。除此之外没有别的议题——无论是政治上的、宗教上的、还是经济上的议题，也就是：人类要去结束这种庞大的自我中心的思想，这种微妙隐晦的自私 ——它滋生了分裂，等等诸如此类的东西。这才是核心问题而这也是宗教的核心问题，不是所有那些正在这个世界上发生着的宗教闹剧 ——在教堂里、在清真寺里、在寺庙里、在宗教集会上所发生的那些闹剧。「宗教」的本质就是「完全彻底地结束自我」。
57:30 What time is it, sir?	57:30 现在几点钟了，先生？
57:33 Questioner: Eleven thirty.	57:33 提问者：十一点半。
57:41 K: Shall I go on? Have you had enough of it, for this morning? We began five minutes late, so I will go on for five minutes more.	57:41 克：还要我继续讲下去吗？你们已经听了一上午了，是不是已经听够了？我们今天晚了五分钟才开始演讲，所以我准备再多讲五分钟。
58:06 If you have looked into the mirror, carefully, seriously, not merely at your face, or your hair, or your eyebrows, and colouring and all the rest of it, but look without any direction, because the direction is a distortion. Please understand this one thing and then you will be able to see in the mirror, very clearly. We are always acting in a particular direction – success, you know, all the rest of it, I don’t have to go into details. So, can you observe without any movement? – the movement being, thought looking. I wonder if you see that. 59:41 You see, when you look at anything, doesn’t matter what it is, thought is looking. Have you discovered that? Or imagination, fancy, memory, the past. Right? Can you look without the movement of all that? Otherwise, you can’t see clearly. See the logic of it, the reason of it. If you see the reason, the logic, the sanity of it, that very sanity will put that aside. You understand? It’s the unhealthy that bring all this in. It’s the healthy that look because they’re sane. Which means sanity is not possible when you remember all your illnesses, all the past pains, but when those are put aside, you can look very clearly without any difficulty. 1:01:13 The looking then pushes aside all those things which are not sane – you understand what I’m saying? The very urgency of looking puts aside those things that prevent actual looking. Right? Is this clear? One thing clear. The very urgency of something – you understand? – you forget about everything else. The urgency of someone dying, or fire, or anything, the urgency dispels, totally, the movement of the past: you act.	58:06 如果你曾经仔细地、认真地看过这面“镜子”，不仅仅是看你的脸、你的头发、你的眉毛、你的肤色等等这些表象，而是没有任何「方向」地去看，因为「方向」就是一种扭曲。请理解这一点，然后你就能够非常清楚地看到镜子里的事物。我们总是在沿着某个特定方向而行动着 ——追求成功，你懂的，等等这些东西，我就不展开讲了。所以，你是否能够没有任何「运动」地去观察？这里的「运动」指的是“用思想去看”。我不知道你们是否明白了它。 59:41 你瞧，当你看某个东西的时候 ——它是什么东西并不重要，那时其实是「思想」在看。你有没有发现这一点？或者是你的想象、喜好、记忆和过去在看。是吧？那么你能否不带着所有这些运动而去看？因为否则的话，你就无法看清楚了。请看到它的逻辑性、它的理性之处。如果你看到了它的理性、逻辑与健全之处，那这种「健全」就会将其抛弃了。你们理解了吗？正是「不健康之物」带来了所有这些东西。而「健康之物」才能够去看，因为它们是心智健全的。也就是说：当你还记着你所有的疾病、你所有过去的痛苦时，就不可能会有「健全」了，而当你抛开了这些东西，你就能毫无困难地、非常清楚地去看了。 1:01:13 那时，这种「看」就可以抛开所有那些不健全的事物 ——你们理解我在说什么吗？这种「必须去看」的紧迫性它就会把那些阻碍了「真正的看」的东西抛开。对吧？清楚了吗？至少这一点清楚了。当某件事情非常紧迫 ——你们理解了吧？ —— 那时你就会忘掉其他一切东西了。某人即将死去的紧急性，或者火灾，或者别的什么事情，这种「紧迫性」便能完全消除掉「过去」的运动：你会立即行动起来。
1:02:23 So, do you, looking in the mirror, and you are looking in the mirror without any persuasion, without any pressure because there is no speaker but you’re just observing yourself in the mirror – and the reason, logic has told you the world with all its violence, brutality, insanity is brought about by this centre in the name of peace, in the name of Christ, in the name of nationality, brotherhood, you know, all the rest of it. Can you look? And the intensity and the urgency of watching dispels any interference of thought, with all its images, associations. Are you doing it? 1:03:36 Or, are you listening to the speaker, when he says, there is no speaker. You understand? There is no speaker, and I mean this desperately, passionately. And I say this with great affection, love, because then you are looking at the mirror yourself, not the speaker is influencing you, coercing you, urging you, persuading you. So, you are here, if one may point out, not to listen to the speaker, but to listen, observe yourself in the mirror. And the whole history of mankind is revealed there. And when you look with intensity, it becomes so very simple. Right?	1:02:23 所以，当你在看镜子的时候，你是否你看那面镜子并不是因为任何劝说、也不是因为任何压力，因为“演讲者”并不存在，你只是在观察镜中的自己，然后那种理性和逻辑就会告诉你：那就是这个充斥着暴力、残忍和精神错乱的世界，它就是这个“中心”所造就的 ——以和平的名义、以基督的名义、以国家的名义、以人类兄弟情谊的名义，你知道的，所有这类东西。那么你能够去看吗？而这种「去看」的强度和紧迫性，就会驱散掉任何思想的干扰及其所有的意象和关联事物。你们正在这么做吗？ 1:03:36 或者说，当演讲者说“并不存在演讲者”时，你们在聆听他的话吗？你们明白了吗？并不存在什么“演讲者”，我是说真的，而且是极其认真、充满热情地说这话的。我是怀着强烈的感情和爱说这话的，因为那样的话，你便是在这面镜子中观看你自己了，而不是演讲者在影响你、强迫你、催促你、说服你。所以如果允许某人（指克氏）指出来的话 ——你们在这里并不是来听演讲者演讲的，而是要在这面“镜子”里聆听和观察你自己。而人类的整个历史将在那里被揭示出来。而当你以这种强度去看时，它就会变得非常简单了。好吗？

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