Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA78T4 - 思想在关系中是必要的吗? home
第四次公开演讲
瑞士 萨嫩
1978年7月16日


0:33 That’s all we need. 0:33 一切都准备就绪了。
0:47 Probably, this morning, there are some new people who have come for Sunday and I hope they don’t treat this as an entertainment, or some intellectual, oriental, romantic nonsense. At least, for some of us, this is a serious meeting, those of us who are committed, involved in trying to find out a new way of living, not based on some ideological belief, on some authority, on some speculative conclusion and so on. We are concerned, as we were saying the other day, about freedom. 2:14 And also, we were pointing out that we are influenced, shaped, controlled by the environment, by institutions, ideals, beliefs, and conclusions. And also, as we were saying the last three meetings here, we are driven by language, and this is very important for us to understand how language, the words control us, shape us and drive us – which we went into sufficiently deeply and sorry, we’re not going to go into it again, this morning. 0:47 今天早上也许有一些“新人”过来了 ——他们过来是为了度过周日假期, 但我希望他们不要把这次演讲 当作是一种娱乐活动, 或者某种智力上的、来自东方世界的 充满浪漫主义的胡说八道。 至少对我们中一些人来说, 这是一次严肃的集会 ——也就是我们中那些致力投身于 去努力发现一种全新生活方式的人, 这种生活不是基于某种意识形态化的信仰, 不是基于某个权威, 或者某个推测出来的结论 等等。 我们所关心的是…… ——就如我们前几天所说的—— 我们关心的是「自由」。 2:14 我们也指出了这一点 ——那就是:我们被「环境」所影响、 所塑造、所控制, 被团体、理想、 信仰和各种结论所影响、塑造和控制。 此外,就如我们之前 在这里进行的三场演讲中所说的: 我们都是被「语言文字」所驱使推动的, 对于我们来说, 了解这一点是十分重要的: 即「语言文字」——那些词语——是如何 控制我们、塑造我们和驱动我们的 我们之前已经 充分地、深入地探讨过它了, 所以很抱歉,今天早上, 我们就不再探讨它了,
3:29 And also, we said where there is identification, not only with the family, with a belief, with a nation, with a group, or identifying oneself with a particular object, whether it is handmade or created by the mind, to be attached, to be identified with any of these things, prevents complete freedom. And it is necessary, as we pointed out in our investigation together, that without freedom, which doesn’t mean doing what one likes, fulfilling one’s own desires but freedom from all the things which are binding us, like jealousy, fear, pleasure, beliefs, identifying oneself with a particular group or idea, guru and ideology, practices and so on. That is, more or less, what we have been talking about the last three times that we have met here. 3:29 此外,我们也说了:当有了「认同」 ——不管是和家庭、和信仰、 和国家、和团体相认同, 还是把自己和某个客体对象相认同 ——不管这个客体对象是人类双手打造的、 还是人类头脑所创造的—— 当你执著于任何上述事物,并与之认同后, 它就会阻碍完全的「自由」。 而就如我们在共同探究的过程中 所指出的那样,我们有必要 那就是:没有自由 ——自由并不意味着去为所欲为, 去实现自己的各种欲望, 「自由」是摆脱掉所有束缚我们的事物 ——比如嫉妒、恐惧、快感、信仰, 把自己认同于某个团体、理念、 古鲁、意识形态、修炼 等等。 而上述这些差不多就是 我们前三次在这里演讲时所谈论的东西。
5:15 I think this morning we should go into something which is part of what we have been talking about. Most of us are afraid to use reason, to think clearly, objectively, non-emotionally, not from a particular centre, either the centre outwardly or inwardly. And to think clearly implies that there is no centre from which you’re operating, in your thinking. I think we should go into this problem, fairly deeply. 5:15 而今天早上,我认为我们应该来 探讨一些东西 ——这些东西是我们此前 所谈论的东西的一部分。 我们大多数人都害怕运用「理性」 去清晰地、客观地、 不掺杂感情地去思考, 不是从某个“中心”出发去展开思考 ——不管这个“中心”是外在的、还是内在的。 清晰明智的思考就意味着 在你的思考中,并没有一个 你从它出发而运作思考的“中心”。 我认为我们应该非常深入地 来探讨一下这个问题。
6:22 Most of us think along a particular line. If we are specialised, we think along those grooves. If you are committed to a particular religion, an ideological structure, again, your thinking is conditioned by that. So, we begin to lose the capacity to reason. Reason implies a certain quality of scepticism, doubt, not accepting anything, either from the psychologists, professors, or from the sacred books – there are no sacred books, there are only printed books, like other books, but we give them importance because they happen to be old, people have said they have been uttered by saints or by some teacher, and so we give to a printed word tremendous importance, which is to be driven by a language. 8:10 And so, where language drives us, we cannot reason properly, sanely. Or we cannot possibly reason logically if you are committed to a particular belief, or to a particular ideology because then, if you’re committed or identified, you go round and round that circle, round that particular ideology or belief. You don’t think wholly, completely, deeply. So, reason, we thought, is something intellectual and anything intellectual, we throw out – that’s the latest fashion! 9:11 Whereas, we need this capacity to reason, which I said implies doubt, scepticism, the freedom from every form of authority, including that of the speaker, especially so, because the speaker is rather intense about these matters, therefore, you may be influenced by that. So, don’t. Think clearly for yourselves, and to think clearly, you must have no motive, or a goal, a direction. If you have a motive, that controls your thinking, if you have a goal, a purpose, a direction, that controls your thinking. 10:16 And you may logically, reasonably think along those lines, but they are conditioned thinking, narrowing thinking. Right? This is clear. 6:22 我们大多数人都是 依照特定的思维模式去思考的。 如果我们是专业人士, 我们就会从专业角度去思考。 而如果你忠于某个宗教、 某种意识形态体系, 那么你的思考同样也会受其制约。 因此,我们便开始失去 「理性思考」的能力。 「理性」意味着某种怀疑和质疑的品质, 不接受任何东西, 不管是来自于心理学家、各类教授的东西, 还是来自于“圣书”的东西 ——其实并没有什么“圣书”, 那些“圣书”只不过是印刷出来的书籍 ——就和其他书籍一样, 但我们却很重视它们, 因为它们恰好是很古老的, 人们说这些书的内容 都是圣人或某个导师所说的话语, 于是我们便赋予了这些印刷出来的文字 以极大的重要性 ——而这就是“被语言文字所驱使”。 8:10 所以,当语言文字驱使推动我们, 我们便无法正确、理智地去进行理性思考了。 或者说,我们不可能去进行合乎逻辑的理性思考 ——如果你专注于某个信仰 或特定意识形态的话。 因为那时,如果你专注于或认同于它们, 那你就只是在“兜圈子”, 围绕着那个意识形态或信仰在兜圈子。 你无法再去完全地、 完整地、深入地思考了。 所以,我们会觉得「理性」是某种 “智力上的东西”, 而我们会把任何智力范畴的东西都扔掉 ——这是最新的时尚潮流! 9:11 然而,我们需要有这种「理性思考」的能力 ——我说过了,它意味着怀疑、质疑, 摆脱掉任何形式的权威 ——包括眼前这位演讲者的权威, 尤其要摆脱他的权威, 因为这位演讲者在这些问题上的态度 是相当强硬的, 所以你们或许会被这种态度所影响。 因此请拒绝他的权威。 自己去清晰地思考, 而要清晰地去思考,你就必须没有动机、 没有目标、没有方向。 如果你有了一个动机, 这个动机就会掌控你的思考, 如果你有了一个目标、 一个目的、一个方向, 它就会控制你的思维。 10:16 你也许会依照那些思维定式 去逻辑地、理性地思考, 但它们都是局限性的、狭隘化的思考。 对吧?这一点是很清楚的。
10:31 So, as we said the other day, there is no speaker, here. We are looking at ourselves and our activities, our beliefs, our fears, pleasures and the whole problem of life, in a mirror. The mirror is objective, it doesn’t… If you face it clearly, as what it is, it reflects exactly, if it is a good mirror, your face. Similarly, we are together exploring, together, going into all the – as we have done in the previous talks – into our human, ordinary, daily problems. Because if those are not very clear, if those are not established, deeply, we cannot go any further. That’s like building a house on sand. 10:31 所以,就如我们前几天说过的: 这里并不存在“演讲者”。 我们正在审视我们自己和我们的行动、 我们的信仰、我们的各种恐惧和快感, 以及生活的全部问题 ——在这面镜子中去审视它们。 这面镜子是很客观的,它不会 如果你能如实地、清楚地去面对它, 那么,如果它是一面好镜子, 它就会如实准确地映照出你的脸。 同样的,我们也正在一起探索 ——是我们一起——去探究所有的 就如我们在之前几次演讲中所做的那样—— 去探究我们人类普通的、日常生活中的问题。 因为如果这些前提没有搞清楚, 如果这些前提没有被牢固地确立, 我们就无法更深入下去了。 这就像是在沙地上建造房屋一样。
11:58 So, as we said, we are talking to ourselves. We are questioning ourselves whether we think logically, reasonably and, therefore, sanely, or our thinking is illusory, based on some belief, based on some ideas, ideals, or on some past experience. Then, if it is so, you can’t discover anything new. 11:58 所以,就如我们所说的: 我们正在与自己交谈。 我们正在向自己提出问题: 我们的思考是否是逻辑的、理性的, 从而是「健全」的, 还是说我们的思考是虚妄的, 它是建立在某种信仰、理念、理想, 或是过去的经验之上的。 而如果是这样的话, 你就无法发现任何崭新的东西了。
12:45 And also, we were saying the other day, all our activities are based on thought – whether you build a marvellous building, the technological, extraordinary advancement, and thinking in your relationship with each other, every action is based on thought. And we said, thought is always, under all circumstances, limited. We went into that, very carefully, why it is limited. Because thought is the outcome of knowledge, which is the past. So, thought is time-binding. Right? We are using ordinary, daily English. 13:58 This is not a special jargon. So, thought is time-binding, time being the past and thought is the outcome, response of knowledge, memory stored up in the brain. This is obvious. If you think for yourself, observe for yourself, it becomes very clear. We are not brain specialists. But we can see that the brain is an enormously ancient instrument, very, very old, conditioned by recording danger, pleasure, fear and so on. So, thought is the movement of time, and thought is measure: ‘I will be better. I think I am this but, tomorrow, I will change to something else’ – all this is a matter of measurement. 15:28 The more, the less, depth and height, horizontal and vertical, is all this movement of measurement. Right? Measurement implies comparison. Most of us compare ourselves with somebody else, always something much greater, not with the poor people, but higher, more intellectual and so on. So, thought is limited, under all circumstances, therefore, thought is never free, thought is a movement in measurement. 12:45 此外,前几天我们也说了: 我们所有的行动 都是建立在「思想」之上的 ——不管你是建造一幢精美绝伦的房子, 科学技术上令人惊叹的进步, 还是去思考你们彼此之间的关系, 每一个行动都是基于「思想」的。 而我们说了:「思想」在任何情况下, 永远都是局限的。 我们也非常小心仔细地探讨了这点 ——为什么它(思想)是局限的。 因为「思想」就是知识的产物 ——而知识就是「过去」。 所以,思想是“被时间束缚”的。 是吧?我们使用的都是普通的日常英语。 13:58 这并不是什么很特别的术语。 因此,思想是被「时间」所制约的, 「时间」就是「过去」,而思想就是 储存在大脑中的知识和记忆的 产物与反应 这是显而易见的。 如果你自己去思考一下、观察一下, 这件事是非常清楚的。 我们并不是什么大脑专家。 但我们都可以看到: 大脑是一个无比古老的工具, 它是非常非常古老的,并且深受制约 ——被它所记录下来的危险、 快感、恐惧等等所制约。 所以,思想就是「时间的运动」, 而思想也是「度量」:我将会变得更好。 我知道我是这个样子的,但明天, 我将会变成其他的样子 ——所有这些都是关乎「量度」的。 15:28 更多、更少,深度和高度,横向和纵向, 这一切不都是「量度」的运动吗? 是吧? 而「量度」就暗示了「比较」。 我们大多数人都会拿自己去和别人比较, 并且总是去和那些更优秀的人比较, 我们不会去和那些差劲的人比较, 而是会和那些地位更高、更聪慧 等等这样的人去比较。 所以,思想在任何情况下都是局限的, 因此,思想永远不会有「自由」, 思想就是一种「量度中的运动」。
16:29 And we asked ourselves, the other day, the question, as all our action is based on measurement: the past, the present and the future and, therefore, limited, and any action that is limited is bound to bring about great sorrow, great conflict, travail, anxiety, fear and so on. And we asked ourselves, is there an action which is not based on thought? Probably none of you have asked this question. Some may have asked it, casually, when you yourself perceive that thought has brought about certain troubles, certain fear, then you begin to question it. But you don’t go very deeply into it. 17:32 You say, ‘Yes, is there a movement, is there a state of mind in which thought as measure, as time, in action, doesn’t operate?’ Right? We went into that, very carefully. We said that there is an action which is not based on memory, which is not based on knowledge, which is not the result of some wish fulfilling, but when one understands the nature, the structure of the whole movement of thought, not intellectually but factually, that thought has its right place – when you want to go to your home, when you want to drive a car, when you are involved in technological business, there, thought is necessary. 18:43 But is thought necessary in human relationship? You understand my question? 16:29 而前几天,我们问了自己这个问题: 由于我们所有的行动 都是建立在「量度」之上的 ——过去、现在和未来—— 因此这种行动是局限的, 而任何局限性的行动 都注定会带来巨大的痛苦、 巨大的冲突、 艰难、焦虑、恐惧,等等。 于是我们便问自己:是否存在一种 并非基于「思想」的行动? 也许你们中并没有人问过这个问题。 可能有些人曾经偶然问过它 ——因为你自己看到「思想」带来了 某些困扰、某种恐惧, 于是你开始质疑它。 但你并没有非常深入地去探究它。 17:32 你说,“是啊,是否存在着一种运动, 是否存在着一种头脑状态 ——在其中作为「度量」和「时间」的思想 不会在我们行动的过程中运作? ” 对吧? 我们非常小心仔细地探讨了这一点。 我们说:存在着一种行动, 它并不是建立在「记忆」之上的, 也不是建立在「知识」之上的, 它并不是某种“实现愿望”的结果, 而是当我们了解了整个思想运动的本质、 整个思想运动的结构以后 ——不是思想智力上了解它,而是真真切切地了解了这一点: 那就是:思想有其正确合理的位置 ——当你想要回自己的家, 当你想要驾驶一辆汽车, 当你涉足科技行业时, 在这些时候,「思想」是必不可少的。 18:43 然而在人类关系中, 「思想」是必需的吗? 你们理解我的问题吗?
18:58 We are going to ask this now: is thought, in our relationship with each other, man, woman, intimate, not intimate and so on, in that relationship, what place has thought? Or, thought has no place, whatsoever. We are going to enquire into this, together, and find out, not speculatively but factually, actually, in daily life. 18:58 我们现在就要来问这个问题了: 在我们彼此之间的关系中 ——男人、女人,亲密关系、 不亲密的关系 等等, 在这类关系中,「思想」的位置是什么? 还是说,在其中并没有思想的一席之地。 我们将要一起来探询这一点, 去把它搞清楚, 不是去凭空猜测,而是在日常生活中 基于事实、实实在在地去把它搞清楚。
19:54 So, we are enquiring into relationship, to be related to another. Is relationship a movement of identification? You understand? I’m asking these questions for you. You have to answer it, for yourselves. You are related to somebody, no one can exist without relationship. In your relationship with your wife, or with your girlfriend, with your boyfriend, whatever it is, is it based on thought? Or you say, ‘No, it’s not based on thought, it’s based on love.’ That’s the most phony word ever used because through that loaded word ‘love,’ we escape. 21:16 We never face the fact. The fact being whether in our relationship with each other, intimate or otherwise, is thought bringing about this relationship? If it is not thought, is it senses? Sexual sense, sense of the feeling, the sensation of being together, companionship and so on, all based on thought. The senses become the instrument of thought. Thought then identifies itself with the senses. Right? 19:54 所以我们正在探询「关系」 ——去和别人产生关系。 那么「关系」是一种“认同的运动”吗? 你们听懂了吗? 我只是在“替你们”问这些问题。 你们必须自己来回答它, 你会和别人产生关系, 没有人可以抛弃关系而存在。 在你和你妻子、你和你女朋友、 男朋友等等的关系中, 这种关系是不是建立在「思想」之上的? 或者你会说,“不,它并不是建立在「思想」上的, 它是建立在「爱」之上的。 “爱”是我们曾经用过的最虚伪的词语, 因为通过“爱”这个「负载词」, 我们得以逃避。 21:16 我们从来没有去面对那个事实。 那个事实就是 在我们彼此之间的关系中 ——不管是亲密关系还是别的什么关系, 是不是「思想」带来了这种关系? 如果不是「思想」带来了关系, 那么是「感官感觉」吗? 「性」的感觉,情绪情感, 那种“在一起”、“有陪伴” 诸如此类的感觉, 所有这些都是基于「思想」的。 「感觉」变成了思想的工具。 然后思想又将自己认同于这些「感觉」。 对吧?
22:16 Please don’t go to sleep, don’t meditate. You don’t know what that word means, we’ll go into it. You are investigating, you’re exploring, you are searching to find an answer to this. You can’t just, kind of, go off into some dreamy state. Because all our life is based on relationship, whether that relationship is very near or very far. And also, may I request you – I’m not forbidding it, I’m just asking you – if you take notes, you can’t pay attention to what is being said. That’s obvious. What matters is that you listen, ardently, passionately, find out, listen. 24:01 Then, if you want to find out, no guru, no system, you have to throw all that out to find out. Which means, you have to find out on what basis your relationship is. If your relationship is based on thought, which actually it is, if you investigate it, deeply, then, thought being limited, your relationship with another must be limited. And hence two limited relationships bring about conflict. Don’t you know, in all our relationships we’re in conflict with each other. No? The wife, the husband, the girl and the boy and so on. 22:16 请你们不要昏昏欲睡, 不要去“冥想”。 你们并不知道「冥想」这个词的含义, 我们将会来探讨它。 你正在探究,你正在探索, 你正在寻求去找到这个问题的答案。 你不能只是就这样陷入于某种 半梦半醒的状态。 因为我们全部的生活 都是建立在「关系」之上的 ——不管那种关系是非常亲近的、 还是非常遥远的。 此外,我是否可以请求一下你们 ——我并没有在禁止你们这么做, 我只是在请求你们—— 那就是:如果你在记笔记的话, 你就无法注意到我正在说的东西了。 这是很显然的。 重要的是你能够充满激情、 充满热情地去聆听, 去发现,去听。 24:01 那时,如果你想要去发现, 那就不存在什么「古鲁」和「体系」了, 你必须要把这些东西全都扔掉, 才能去发现它。 这意味着:你必须去发现 你的关系的「基础」是什么。 如果你的关系是建立在「思想」之上的 ——如果你深入地去探究一下它的话, (你会发现)实际上它就是建立在「思想」上的。 于是,由于「思想」是局限的, 所以你和别人的关系 也必然是局限的。 由此这两种局限的关系 就会产生冲突。 你们难道不知道吗? 在我们所有的关系中, 我们彼此之间都会有冲突。 不是吗? 妻子、丈夫,男女朋友,等等。
25:17 Therefore, to find out what relationship is, not only must we enquire into what it actually is, which is based on thought, conflict, quarrels, jealousies, fears, domination, possessiveness, identification, all the rest of it, we have not only to find that out, be aware of all that, but also, one must enquire: is it possible to be free of all that, in relationship? You understand my question? Right? Please, I’m not talking to myself. We are together, and we mean it – together. It’s your life. Together, we are trying to find out – no, not trying, we are finding out. There is no ‘trying.’ 26:32 That’s another lazy word. ‘I am trying to do my best’ – which means nothing! But we must find out if there is a relationship which is not based on thought, thought being remembrance. You have hurt me, I remember that. And you have given me pleasure, sexually or otherwise, I remember that. And also, you have hurt me, you have praised me, you have given me comfort, all that is stored up as memory, and on that memory, thought is born and I say I am related to you. This is normal, daily life. 25:17 因此,要搞清楚「关系」是什么, 我们不仅必须去探究 它实际的模样 ——即它(关系)是建立在 思想、冲突、争吵、 妒羡、恐惧、支配、占有、 认同 等等这一切之上的, 我们不仅需要去搞清楚这一点, 去觉察到所有这些, 我们同样必须去询问: 我们是否可能在关系中 摆脱掉所有这些东西? 你们理解我的问题吗? 对吧? 请注意,我并不是在自言自语。 而是我们要「一起」去问, 我们是说真的——要「一起」去问。 这是你的生活。 我们要一起“努力”去发现 ——不,不是“努力”。 而是我们要去发现…… ——这里并没有什么“努力”。 26:32 这是另一个“偷懒”的词。 “我会尽我最大的努力” ——这并没有什么意义! 我们必须去发现 是否存在着一种 并非建立在「思想」之上的关系, 「思想」就是记忆。 你曾经伤害了我,我记住了这件事。 或者你曾经带给了我快乐 ——性的快感或者其他快乐, 我也会记住它。 此外,你伤害了我,你称赞了我, 你给予了我安慰, 所有这些都作为「记忆」被储藏起来了, 而在这些「记忆」的基础上,思想产生了, 然后我说:我和你是有关系的。 这就是我们普通的日常生活。
27:45 And we are asking – rather, you are asking: is there a way of living where thought, which has its place, naturally, even in relationship, but in actual relationship, is there the absence of thought, altogether? That’s what we’re going to find out. You understand? I hope we’re making the question clear to each other. That is, one is related, as in most cases, which is, a relationship of pain, anxiety, identifying oneself with that person, quarrels, nagging, jealousy, annoyance – you follow? 28:57 Those are the daily, common, routine facts. If one is aware of that very, very clearly, not escape from that, then we can ask the question, is there a relationship with another which is not based on thought, which is on remembrance. Right? Are you also working? Not casually. You’re working so that you’re perspiring. To answer that question, you must investigate why the brain records. That is, you have said something to your boy or girl, or husband or wife, some ugly word you have used, in annoyance, or you have used a pleasant word to each other – all these words are registered. You follow? 30:30 That’s the process of the brain to record in order to protect itself, because the brain can only function in perfect security. It is only when it is insecure, that it acts neurotically. Right? Or being insecure you find somebody, a guru or some priest, or some psychologist, and accept him as your authority, and the brain says, ‘Yes, that’s quite safe’ – you follow? 27:45 而我们正在问 ——更确切地说,是你正在问: 是否存在着一种生活方式, 在其中「思想」 ——当然了,即使在「关系」中, 思想也有它的位置, 然而在实际的人际关系中, 是否可以完全没有任何「思想」? 这就是我们将要去搞清楚的东西。 你们理解了吗? 我希望我们双方都已经 清楚了问题是什么。 换句话说:我们的关系…… 在大多数情况下, 它是一种令人痛苦的、充满焦虑的、 将自己认同于某个人的关系, 其中有着争吵、唠叨、 嫉妒、恼火——你们跟上了吗? 28:57 这些都是每天发生的、 很常见、很平常的事实。 如果我们非常非常清楚地觉察到了它, 并且不逃避它的话, 我们就可以问这个问题了: 是否存在着一种与他人的关系 这种关系不是建立在「思想」 ——即不是建立在「记忆」——之上的。 对吧? 你们是否也在认真工作? 而不是漫不经心的。 你正在“工作”,并因此而“汗流浃背”。 而要回答这个问题,你就必须探究一下 为什么大脑要去记录。 换句话说:在你恼怒的时候,你对你的男朋友或女朋友, 对你的丈夫或妻子 说了一些很难听的话, 或者你们彼此之间会甜言蜜语 ——而所有这些词语都会被记录下来。 你们跟上了吗? 30:30 这就是大脑的运作过程:也就是去记录 以此来保护它自己, 因为大脑只能够在「彻底的安全」中运作, 只有当它处于不安全之中时, 它才会做出那些神经质的举动。 对吧? 或者说当你感到不安全时,你就会找到某个人 ——一个古鲁或者牧师、 或者某个心理学家, 你接受了他作为你的权威, 然后大脑会说,“好了,现在很安全了” ——你们跟上了吗?
31:23 So, we are asking – please, listen to this – is it possible, in your relationship with each other, in one’s daily activities of relationship, is it possible not to register either the insult or the flattery? Not to register at all. Find out. If you don’t register, your relationship is entirely different. Right? Now, is that possible? It sounds a marvellous theory, an extraordinary idea, a way of saying, ‘By Jove, if one could live this way, it would be very simple.’ Now, please don’t translate what is being said into an idea, into some kind of visionary, hopeful, happy theory. We are actually trying to find out if it is possible not to register either the sexual remembrances, which makes one further sexual, the pictures, all the rest of that business that goes on with regard to sex, and that is remembered, stored up, encouraged through the cinema, films, pictures, the whole western world which is spreading all over the world, encouraging this memory. 34:06 Can you, as a human being, find out for yourself why a hurt, a pleasurable incident, is registered? From that registration, thought begins – you understand? Is that possible? It is only possible, not if, when, there is attention, and non-identification in relationship. Am I making something clear? 31:23 所以,我们正在问——请听好了—— 在你们彼此之间的关系中, 在你们日常生活关系的活动中, 你们是否可能不去记录 ——既不去记录侮辱、也不去记录奉承? 完全不去记录。 去发现它吧。 如果你不去记录, 那你的关系将会变得截然不同。 对吧? 那么,它可能吗? 这听起来是一个很绝妙的理论、 一个很神奇的观点, 这种说法——也就是“天啊, 如果我们可以这样子生活, 那事情就非常简单了。 ” 现在,请你们不要把我正在说的东西 翻译成某种观点、 某种空想的、充满希望的、 令人愉快的理论。 实际上,我们正在试图去搞清楚: 是否可能不要去记录…… 不管是性爱方面的回忆 ——这会促使我们去追求更多的性爱, 那些图片,以及所有其他那些 正在发生进行着的、和「性」相关的事物, 这些事物被记住了、被储存起来了, 电影院、电影、各种图片 鼓励了「性」。 整个西方世界都是如此, 而它正在蔓延扩散至全世界, 鼓励这种关于「性」的记忆。 34:06 那么作为一个人,你是否能够 亲自去发现这一点: 即 为什么一个伤害、一件令人愉悦的事情 会被记录下来呢? 经由这种「记录」,「思想」便开始产生了 ——你们理解了吗? 这可能吗? 想要它成为可能,只有 如果……不是“如果”,而是当你在关系中有了「注意」 和「不认同」时,它才可能。 我讲清楚了吗?
35:14 One takes one’s wife, or one’s girl, or one’s husband for granted. Right? No? You get used to it, it is part of you and you’ve got used to so many things, and so you add another addition to this. Now, to be attentive, and that’s only possible when you don’t identify yourself with that woman or that boy and say, ‘Mine.’ Right? Can you do this? Non-identifying oneself with another and, therefore, being free to be attentive. Not attentive and then free, non-identification. But non-identifying first and then, out of that, comes attention. Hai capito? 35:14 我们会把自己的妻子、女朋友 或者丈夫视为是“理所当然”的。 对吧? 不是吗? 你已经习以为常了,那个人就是你的一部分, 而你已经习惯了如此多的事物, 所以你又给它添加了另一个事物。 而现在,你们需要保持「注意」, 而只有当你不把自己认同于 那个女人或那个男孩,说“她(他)是我的”。 那时你才有可能去「注意」。 对吧? 你能够这么做吗? 不要把自己认同于别人, 从而能够自由地保持注意。 而不是先「注意」,然后再获得“自由” 和“摆脱认同”。 而是首先「不去认同」, 然后经由这种「不认同」而产生「注意」。 你们明白了吗?(意大利语)
36:36 Now, can you, can one, as a human being, non-identify yourself with another? Not only with another but with ideas, with a group, with a sect, with a guru, with the whole business of it, which means you are free? Out of that freedom, there is attention. How can one be attentive, if I’ve identified myself with you? You may be most affectionate, most kind, I may want your kindness because I’m lonely, I feel desperate, so I identify, you encourage me, you say, ‘That’s nothing, you’ll get over it tomorrow, old boy, get on with it – you give me comfort, you give me sex, so, instinctively, I identify myself with you. 37:46 The moment you identify yourself with another, you bring about a separation. Right? Obviously. So, when there is separation, there must be conflict. Right? Oh Lord, there are a lot of trains this morning! 36:36 那么,你们是否能够…… 作为一个人,你是否能够 不要把自己认同于别人? 不仅是不认同于别人,也不要认同于某个理念、 某个团体、教派、古鲁, 所有这类东西, 这意味着你是「自由」的。 而从这种「自由」之中,就会产生出「注意」。 如果我已经把自己认同于你了, 我还怎么能够保持「注意」呢? 你也许是对我最有感情的、最友善的, 我也许渴望你的善意,因为我很孤独, 我感到绝望,于是我便认同于你, 因为你鼓励了我, 你说,“这不是什么大不了的事儿, 明天你就会好起来的, 老兄,继续好好生活吧” ——你安慰了我,你和我做爱, 于是我本能地就会把自己认同于你。 37:46 而一旦你将自己认同于别人, 你就带来了一种「分离」。 对吧? 这是显而易见的。 所以,当有了「分离」,就必定会有「冲突」。 是吧? 天哪,今天早上竟有这么多火车!
38:19 So, can you find out, now, sitting here, not tomorrow, not when you go home, actually, now, find out if you have identified yourself with her or him. And extend that identification, extensively – ideas, beliefs, dogmas, with Jesus, or Buddha, this or that, or ideologically, nationally and so on. Begin with the nearest and expand – you follow? We are apt to begin extensively but not near. So, can you find out if you’re identifying yourself with another? The moment you use ‘my girl’ or ‘my boy,’ you’re caught. 39:30 So, the ‘my wife,’ the ‘my girl,’ the ‘my husband’ – the words are driving you, because those words are emotionally explosive. So, you are being driven by words, whereas, if you are free from identification and, therefore, from the emotional content of ‘my’ wife, ‘my’ husband, ‘my’ girl or boy, then you can use words normally, unemotionally, sanely. I wonder if you get all this! 38:19 因此,当你坐在这里的时候,你能否现在就去发现 ——不是明天去发现,不是当你回家以后, 而是现在就切实地去发现 你是否已经把自己认同于她(他)了。 然后我们再扩展一下这种「认同」, 把它的范围扩大至 各种理念、信仰、教条, 认同于耶稣、佛陀,认同于这个或那个。 或者认同于某个意识形态、某个国家 等等。 从你身边最近的事物开始,然后扩展开去 ——你们跟上了吗? 我们往往倾向于从广阔巨大的事物开始, 而不是从身边近处的事物开始。 所以,你能否去发现一下: 你是否在把自己认同于另一个人? 当你使用诸如“我的女朋友”或“我的男朋友”这样的措词, 你就已经陷入于「认同」了。 39:30 所以,“我的妻子”、 “我的女朋友”、“我的丈夫” ——这些词语正在驱使推动着你, 因为这些词语能“引爆”你的情感。 所以,你正在被词语文字所驱使推动着, 然而,如果你摆脱掉「认同」, 从而摆脱掉那种与“我的”相关的情感内容 ——我的妻子、我的丈夫、我的女朋友或男朋友, 那么你就可以正常地、 不带情绪地、理智地使用这些词语了。 我不知道你们是否领会了所有这些!
40:19 So, can one not identify? And why do you identify? You understand my question? Why? Is it that through identification with another, you are escaping from yourself? Go into it, please. Are you? Or you may identify yourself with another because you’re lonely, or you are frightened to be nothing. You understand? To be absolutely empty – psychologically, I don’t mean biologically, food, I don’t mean that. Are these the reasons that you have never asked this question and if you ask this question, is it that you are frightened to face yourself as you actually are? 42:02 Therefore, identification with another becomes a means of escape from what you are. So, then you ask, what are you? Of course, you are your name, your form, the body, the organism, the face, but that is of a biological or physiological nature. But what are you? Are you not the result of all the structure and the movement of thought? Don’t say, ‘I am the higher self’ – if you do say that, that’s part of thinking. Or if you say, ‘I’m divine inside, covered up with a lot of muck,’ that’s also thinking. 43:21 So, are you, apart from your face and curly hair, or dark brown, black or purple or whatever it is, apart from that, stripping yourself of words, are you not the result of words? ‘I am British’ or French, ‘I am a Russian,’ ‘I am a Catholic,’ ‘I follow this guru’ – so, are you not the result of thought? And we said, thought is limited. So, what you are is very limited. That limited entity says, ‘I am this, I am that, I’ve got millions of dollars, or I’ve a jolly good life, or I’ve a miserable life, or I’m this or that’ – but it’s still in the narrow, limited area of thought. 44:53 The Hindus, the ancient Hindus invented a very good thing. They called it the Atman, the higher Self, the supreme thing. And that supreme thing is still born out of thought. But people are so gullible, so unreasonable, like to live in illusions and make-belief, they accept all this. 40:19 所以,我们能够不去认同吗? 为什么你要去认同呢? 你理解我的问题吗? 为什么? 是不是因为通过认同于别人, 你就可以逃避你自己了? 请你去探究一下它。 你是不是这样的? 或者你认同于别人可能是因为你很孤独, 或者你害怕变得什么都不是。 你们听懂了吗? 变得“空空如也” ——是心理上的空虚,我并不是指生物学意义上的…… 比如没东西吃了,我不是这个意思。 这些是否就是你从来不问这个问题的原因, 而如果你问了这个问题, 是不是因为你害怕面对自己的真实模样? 42:02 于是,「认同于别人」就成了一种 逃避你真实模样的手段。 由此,你就会问了:那么「你」是什么呢? 当然了,「你」是你的名字、你的模样、 你的身体、有机组织、面孔, 但这些都是生物学或生理学上的特性。 但什么是「你」呢? 「你」难道不就是思想所有的结构 和活动吗? 不要说,“我是‘高层自我’” ——如果你真这么说了,这也属于思考的一部分。 或者如果你说,“我就是‘内在的神性’, 只不过被厚厚的淤泥所覆盖了”, 这其实也是思考(思想)。 43:21 所以,你是不是…… 抛开你的面孔和卷曲的头发, 也不管你是深棕色皮肤、黑色皮肤、 紫色皮肤 或者无论什么颜色, 抛开这些,摒弃这些词语, 「你」不就是「词语文字」的聚合结果吗? “我是一个英国人” 或者法国人,“我是一个俄罗斯人”, “我是一个天主教徒”, “我追随这个古鲁” ——所以,你不就是「思想」的结果吗? 而我们说:思想是局限的。 因此,你的实际模样也是非常局限的。 这个局限的实体在说,“我是这个,我是那个, 我有几百万美元, 或者我的生活幸福快乐, 或者我的生活苦不堪言, 或者 我是这样的或那样的” ——但它仍旧是落入于 「思想」那狭隘和局限的范畴中的。 44:53 印度人……古代印度人 发明出了一个非常“绝妙”的玩意儿。 他们把它称为“阿特曼(Atman:宇宙灵魂,大我)”, 也就是“高层自我”、那个至高无上的东西。 然而这个“至高之物” 仍旧是来自于「思想」的。 然而人们却是如此容易受骗上当, 如此的不理智, 他们喜欢生活在错觉和想象中, 他们接受了所有这一切。
45:26 So, we are saying, when you strip yourself of your conclusions, of your words, of your experience, what are you? You’re nothing. You are empty. So, consciously, or unconsciously, the feeling that you are nothing, you get frightened of it and then you begin to identify. Then you fill that emptiness, at least, you think you can fill that emptiness with lots of ideas, with lots of relationship, with lots of knowledge, etc. etc. Right? 45:26 所以,我们在说的是:当你剥除了 你自己的那些结论、 那些词语、那些经验以后, 「你」又是什么呢? 你就什么都不是了。 你就“空空如也”了。 因此,有意识或无意识地, 你会感到自己什么都不是, 你会为此而感到害怕, 于是你便开始去认同。 去填补这种“空虚”, 至少你认为你可以填补这种“空虚” ——用大量的观点、大量的关系、 大量的知识 等等 去填补空虚。对吧?
46:20 Now, just a minute, can you, can thought, can the mind observe that emptiness and not move away from it? You understand my question? That is… we must understand something, here. Are you getting tired? If you are, it’s all right. We must go into something else, here, which is, most of us are accustomed, according to tradition and conditioning to be active, to do something. Right? So, we are accustomed to what is called positive action. Anything that is not positive action, is called negative action. 47:31 Right? You are following this? Our brains, our minds, our habits are, act according to this positive action, to do something: I’m afraid, I must control it. I’m greedy, I either act to fulfil it or control it. So, most of us are trained to act, which is called positive. And in that positive action, there is also negative action which is not to do anything about it, go off to sleep, or cover it up, run away from it. But there is another action, which has nothing to do with the positive – I wonder if you understand all this – which is no action at all. 48:53 You understand? The one is to act: I am lazy, I must get up, force myself. I must do yoga, I don’t want to do it this morning but I must do it – good for me. You know the word ‘yoga’ – I won’t go into it now, sorry, we’ll go into that another time. That’s an exploiting, moneymaking concern, that word. 46:20 但现在,请稍等一下, 你是否能够、思想是否能够、 头脑是否能够去「观察」那种空虚, 而不要离开它? 你们理解我的问题吗? 换句话说……我们在这里 必须先理解一些东西。 你们是不是有点累了? 如果你累了,这也没关系。 讲到这里,我们必须要来探讨一些别的东西, 那就是:我们大多数人都已经习惯于 遵从传统和环境的制约 而去变得积极主动,去做一些事情。 是吧? 所以,我们已经习惯于那种 所谓的“积极行动”。 而如果它不是“积极行动”, 我们就会称其为“消极行动”。 47:31 是这样吧?你们跟上它了吗? 我们的大脑、我们的头脑、我们的习惯就是 根据这种“积极行动”的理念去行动, 去做一些事情: 我感到害怕,所以我必须控制它(害怕)。 我很贪婪,于是我会通过行动来满足这种贪婪, 要么我会控制我的贪婪。 所以,我们大多数人都被培养训练着去行动 ——而这被称为是“积极的”。 而在这种“积极行动”中,也存在着“消极行动” ——也就是“什么都不做”, 干脆睡觉去,或者掩盖它,或者逃离它。 然而还存在着另外一种「行动」, 这种「行动」和“积极”毫无关系 ——我不知道你们是否理解了这一切—— 它是“完全不动”。 48:53 你们能听懂吗? 一个是“去行动”: 我很懒惰,所以我必须强迫自己早起。 我必须练瑜伽, 我今天早上其实并不想要练瑜伽, 但我必须要练——因为它对我有好处。 你们应该知道“瑜伽”这个词吧—— 我现在就不深入探讨它了,很抱歉, 下次有机会我们再来探讨它。 “瑜伽”已经成为了一种剥削、 一个赚钱的行当。
49:40 All right. So, we are trained, our habit, our tradition, our conditioning is to do something about what we feel. And in that positive action, there is negative action, not to do anything about it, just to leave it alone, run away from it. Now, there is, we are suggesting, enquire into it, please, don’t accept it, we are saying, there’s another kind of action unrelated to the positive, which is non-action. We’ll go into that, in a minute. You understand? The non-action is not the opposite of action. That action is very limited because it’s based on thought. Whereas, non-action, not being related to the positive, is entirely different, which we’ll enquire into, presently. 49:40 好了,不说了。 所以,我们就是这样被培养训练的, 我们的习惯、我们的传统、 我们的制约就是要对我们的「感受」 “做一点事情”。 而在这种“积极行动”中,也会有“消极行动” ——也就是“什么事儿都不做”, 听之任之,撒手不管,逃离它。 而现在,我们在暗示的是,存在着一种 请你们去探询它,不要接受它, 我们在说的是:存在着另外一种行动, 这种行动是和“积极”无关的 ——它是「非行动」。 我们马上就会来探究它。 你们理解了吗? 「非行动」并不是「行动」的对立面。 “行动”是非常局限的, 因为它是建立在「思想」之上的。 然而,「非行动」是和“积极”无关的, 所以它是截然不同的事物 ——我们很快就会来探询这一点。
50:58 So, our question is this, now: one has heard, if you have paid attention to it, one has heard that identification with another brings about separation, because that identification with another, is based on your own emptiness, on your own loneliness, on your own desire to escape from yourself, but the escaping from yourself, your loneliness, is always there. It’s always there, you may identify yourself with another but it’s there. 51:45 Therefore, that creates separation – you understand? And hence, quarrels, all the rest of it, follows, divorce and everlasting struggle in relationship. Now, can you observe this identifying process and the cause of identifying, without any positive action? Without doing something about it? Vous avez compris? You’ve understood what I’m saying? 50:58 所以,现在,我们的问题是: 我们听到了这样的说法…… ——如果你是集中注意力在听的话, 我们听到了这种说法:那就是 与他人相认同 会带来「分离」, 因为这种与别人的认同 是建立在你自己的空虚、你自己的孤独、 以及你想要逃避自己的渴望之上的, 然而虽然你逃避了自己, 但你的孤独 却总是在那里。 它永远都在那里, 你也许可以将自己认同于别人, 但它还是会在那里。 51:45 由此这便制造出了「分离」 ——你们理解了吗? 由此争吵等等就随之而来了, 还有离婚,以及关系中永无止境的斗争。 那么,你能否观察这种「认同」的过程 以及认同的原因 而没有任何“积极行动”呢? 不去为此而做一些事情。 你们明白了吗?(法语) 你们理解我在说什么吗?
52:35 I’ll go into it, if I may. Quelle heure est-il? Oh, plenty of time. I’ll go into this. 52:35 如果你们允许的话,我会深入探讨一下它。 现在几点了?(法语) 哦,时间还很充裕。 那就让我来深入一下它吧。
52:52 One becomes aware, if you have listened to it, very carefully, that you are identifying, that’s an actual fact. And the actual fact is that you’re identifying because you’re frightened, you’re lonely, you’re empty, you feel anxious, therefore, you identify. Now, can you observe that without any action? Just to observe it, as you observe the majesty of the mountains, the running waters just to observe. Then, if you so observe, which is non-action, then the thing that you’re observing undergoes a fundamental change. It is only when we are positively acting about it, then we are acting as a separate entity and, therefore, conflict. I wonder if you get all this? 52:52 如果你非常仔细地听了刚才的演讲, 你就会意识到 你正在认同——这是一个确切的事实。 这个确切的事实就是 你正在认同, 因为你很害怕,你很孤单,你很空虚, 你感到焦虑,于是你便去认同。 而现在,你能否观察它 而没有任何“行动”呢? 只是去观察它, 就像你观察雄伟的高山 和奔腾的流水一样, 只是去看它们。 那时,如果你能这样去观察 ——这就是「非行动」, 那么你正在观察的那个东西 就会经历一次根本性的改变。 而当我们对它(观察对象) 采取一些“积极行动”时, 那时我们就是作为一个分离的实体在采取行动, 由此便会有冲突。 我不知道你们是否领会了所有这一切?
54:24 Right? Now, let’s go into something else, which is, most of us, probably, all of us, in some measure or other, we are frightened. Our life is so uncertain, especially now. There’s uncertainty of livelihood, uncertainty of wars, uncertainty of these pressures of the world, the enormity of two powers, what is all going to come out of it, and so on, so on, politically, we are anxious. That means, we are frightened. You may lose your job. 55:28 Physiologically, as well as biologically, one may get ill – again, there is fear. And psychologically, inwardly, there’s the fear of loneliness, fear of not succeeding, fear of not being loved, whatever that may mean, fear of dark – you know, fear, with all its many, many branches. Right? If you are not afraid – good Lord! – there’s no guru, there is no authority, there is no search, you’re a marvellous human being. 54:24 是这样吧?好了,让我们来探讨一些 别的东西吧,那就是: 我们大多数人,也许是我们所有人, 我们在某种程度上 都会感到害怕。 我们的生活是如此的不确定 ——尤其是在如今这个时代。 我们的生计保障不确定、 战争的不确定性, 这个世界上存在着各种不确定的压力, 在政治上,存在(东西方阵营)两股强大的力量, 而它最终会带来什么后果呢, 等等 等等, 我们感到很焦虑。 这意味着,我们感到害怕。 你也许会失去你的工作。 55:28 在生理学和生物学层面,我们也许会生病 ——同样的,这也是恐惧。 而心理层面、内心层面,我们会恐惧孤独, 恐惧无法获得成功,恐惧无法被爱 ——无论“被爱”意味着什么, 我们也会害怕黑暗 ——你知道的,恐惧 及其无数的分支。 对吧? 而如果你可以不害怕 ——天哪! —— 那么就没有什么古鲁、没有权威、没有寻找了, 你成为了一个很美好的人。
56:23 So, we’re going to find out, enquiring together, not me alone, find out whether it’s possible to have no fear, whatsoever, both physically, as well as psychologically. Are you interested in this? Don’t encourage, I’m not asking for encouragement. Because to live under fear is the most appalling thing, it’s living in darkness, living in such… it brings a sense of shrinking, isolation, you cannot solve this thing, therefore, you withdraw. And from that withdrawal, fear, all kinds of neurotic actions, ill health, psychosomatically, it reacts. Right? So, you must, if you’re at all serious, go into it, very deeply, you must find out, for yourself, if fear can end. 56:23 所以我们将要去发现它, 一起去探询它——而不是我独自一人—— 去发现这一点: 即我们是否可能没有任何的恐惧, 既包括身体层面的恐惧, 也包括心理层面的恐惧。 你们对这个东西有兴趣吗? 不要给我打气, 我并没有在请求你们给我鼓励。 因为生活在恐惧中是最可怕的事情, 它就像是生活在黑暗中, 生活在如此的 它带来了一种畏缩感、一种孤立感, 因为你无法解决这个东西,所以你便“撤离”了。 而经由这种“撤离”,便产生了恐惧、 产生了各种神经质的行为、 造成了「不健康」, 它会产生各种身心相关的反应。 对吧? 所以,如果你真的很认真, 你就必须非常深入地去探究它, 你必须亲自去发现,恐惧是否能够结束。
58:02 If one may ask, are you aware of your fear? This is not group therapy – you understand? – just enquiring for each one, not a group of us enquiring, that’s too meaningless. I’m asking you, are you aware of your fears? If you are, do you see the consequences of it? The running away from it, rationalising it, suppressing it, or avoiding it and the identification becomes greater and greater and so on? Now, what is the root of fear? You understand? Not, I’m afraid about something, or because of something, or I’m afraid that you might do something, but apart from that, the very root of it. Do you want to find out the root of it, or you’re waiting for an answer? 59:58 I can answer it. But, then, what happens? You either say, ‘Yes, that is so,’ you accept it and it becomes an idea and you have gone away from the fact. So, you have to ask this question for yourself. What is the root of all this enormous sense of fear, in our relationships, in our activities, in our jobs, in our future life – you know, the whole business of it? Do you ask it – ask the question – to totally cut the root, or you’re asking, intellectually? You follow? I wonder if you understand? Look, I’ll explain what I mean. 58:02 如果允许我问一下的话: 你觉察到自己的恐惧了吗? 这并不是一次团体心理治疗 ——你们明白吗? —— 我只是在分别询问每一个人, 而不是我们一群人一起在问, 那样就太没意义了。 我正在问你:你是否觉察到了你的各种恐惧? 如果你觉察到了,那你是否看到了 它(恐惧)的后果? 那时你会逃离它,你会把它合理化, 你会压抑它或者回避它, 于是那种「认同」就会变得 越来越强烈,等等? 那么,恐惧的根源是什么呢? 你们理解了吗? 不是“我害怕某某东西”, 或者我之所以害怕是“因为某件事情”, 或者我害怕…… 你可能会做某些事情, 而是抛开这些,去看看恐惧的真正根源。 你们是否想要去找出恐惧的根源, 还是说你们正在等待着一个答案? 59:58 我可以回答它。但这样的话会发生什么呢? 你要么会说,“是的,确实如此”, 你会接受它,然后它会变成一个观念, 于是你就离开了「事实」。 所以,你必须要问问自己这个问题。 所有这些强烈巨大的恐惧感, 它的根源是什么 ——这种恐惧感存在于我们的关系、 我们的活动、我们的工作、 我们未来的生活中 ——你知道的,所有这些东西。 你有没有问过它 ——问一下这个问题—— 去完全地“斩断”那个根源, 或者,你只是从思维智力的层面在问这个问题? 你们跟上了吗? 我不知道你们是否理解了? 瞧,让我来解释一下我的意思吧。
1:01:31 I want to find out why I’m afraid. I can find out the various causes of it, that’s fairly simple. I’m afraid because I’ve done something I shouldn’t have done, and you might discover it, therefore, I’m frightened. Or I’m afraid I might lose my job, I want a better job, and so on, so on. Or I’m so attached to my wife, I feel she might, at any moment, leave me and I’m frightened – you follow? 1:02:08 The whole business of fear. Am I actually in contact with fear, or am I in contact with the idea of fear? You understand? Which is it? The idea of fear, or actual fear? Come on, somebody. Please, madame, don’t take notes, for the love of Pete! If you take notes, you can’t listen. It’s your problem. The writing down is not at issue now, but to find out. 1:01:31 我想要去搞清楚 为什么我会害怕。 我可以找出恐惧的各种原因, 这是相当简单的。 我害怕是因为我曾经做了一些 我本不应该做的事, 而你也许发现了它,因此我感到害怕。 或者我会担心自己可能会失业, 我想要一份更好的工作,等等 等等。 或者,我是如此地执著于我的妻子, 但我感到她可能随时都会离我而去, 所以我感到害怕——你们跟上了吗? 1:02:08 所有这些恐惧之事。 那么,我是不是切实地在和「恐惧」接触交流, 还是说:我只是在和“恐惧”这个概念 接触交流? 你们理解了吗? 是哪一种呢? 是关于恐惧的概念,还是实际的恐惧呢? 加油啊,你们。 这位夫人,请不要做笔记了, 看在上帝的份上! 如果你做笔记的话,你就无法聆听了。 这是你的问题。 现在的问题并不在于把它记录下来, 而是要去搞清楚真相。
1:03:19 Now, I can investigate, analyse the cause. Right? The cause and the sequence. I can analyse it. But analysis doesn’t solve the problem. You must have known that. Because the analyser thinks he’s different from the analysed. Right? You may have heard this before, so don’t get bored with it, or smile and say, ‘Yes, he’s going back to the old stuff’ but you have to understand this. If you understand it, if you see the truth of it, then you will do something. We’re not analysing but observing. 1:04:17 Analysis is entirely different from observation. Right? Observation implies, without the observer, to look. Whereas, if you analyse the cause, why, and the reasons and go on analysing, analysing, there is implied several things, which is, there’s the analyser, thinking that he’s different from the analysed, and that involves time, an endless process of analysing, analysing, analysing, at the end of your life you’re still analysing, without bringing about fundamental transformation. Whereas, if you observe, just to observe, that is, without any analysis, just to look, which is negative action. 1:05:29 The positive action is to look, analyse, do something about it. Whereas, the negative action, which is totally different from the positive action, is to observe. Right? Then that observation not only tells the story of what is being observed, it tells you the story of what is being observed, and also, that observation, itself, brings about a movement of change in that which is being observed. Right? Do get this. Even the so-called scientists are agreeing with what we’re talking about, so you’re quite safe! 1:06:29 That is, if you watch through a microscope some cell, if you come to it with a conclusion, with wanting to use it for further purposes and making money, or whatever it is, then you don’t see the movement of the cell, itself, changing. You understand this? So, to observe without any movement of thought, any movement of trying to change it, any movement to go beyond it, just to watch. When you watch, so closely, without any sense of direction, motive, the thing that you’re watching, itself, undergoes a fundamental change. Full stop. 1:07:35 Are you doing it? Not agreeing with me. Can you watch your fear in this manner? It doesn’t need practice. That’s one of our pet theories. If you’re interested, if you’re concerned in the freedom from fear, you observe. And that observation is passionate. It’s not just casual, intellectual observation. 1:03:19 你瞧,我可以去研究、去分析那个原因,对吧? 原因,以及事情的次序。 我可以去分析它。 然而「分析」并不能解决那个问题。 这点你们一定也是心知肚明的。 因为那个“分析者”会认为自己 和“被分析物”是有所不同的。 对吧? 你们之前也许听过这种观点了, 所以请不要对此感到厌烦, 或者微笑着说,“来了,他又要老调重弹了”, 重要的是你必须理解这一点。 如果你理解了它,如果你看到了它的真相, 那你就会做一些事情了。 我们并没有在分析,而是在观察。 1:04:17 「分析」和「观察」是完全不同的。 是吧? 「观察」意味着没有一个观察者 ——而只是去「看」。 然而,如果你去分析那个起因, 去分析“为什么”,分析原因, 然后就这样不断地分析下去, 那么这其中就暗示了几件事情, 也就是:存在着一个“分析者”, 这个“分析者”认为自己 和那个“被分析物”是不同的, 而在这之中就牵涉到了「时间」, 永无休止的分析的过程, 不停地分析再分析, 直到你生命的尽头,你还是在分析, 你并没有带来根本性的转变。 然而,如果你去观察,只是去观察的话, 也就是:没有任何分析,只是去「看」 ——这就是“消极行动”。 1:05:29 “积极行动”就是去看、去分析、 去对那个东西做一些事情。 然而“消极行动” ——它和“积极行动”是截然不同的—— 则是去「观察」。 对吧? 那时,这种「观察」不仅会讲出 你所观察事物的故事, 它会向你讲述你正在观察的事物的故事, 此外,这种「观察」本身也会带来 那个“被观察事物”内在变化的运动。 对吗? 请务必理解这一点。 即使是所谓的“科学家”们 也会同意我们正在谈论的东西, 所以你们大可放心! 1:06:29 换句话说,如果你透过显微镜 去观察某些细胞, 如果你看它是带着某种结论, 想要利用它来达到更多的目的, 用它来赚钱,或者无论什么事情, 那你就无法看到 细胞本身的运动,看到它的改变了。 你们理解它了吗? 所以,去观察, 但不要带着任何思想的活动、 任何试图改变它的活动, 任何想要超越它的活动 ——只是去观察。 当你如此密切地去观察它, 没有任何的「方向感」,没有任何动机, 那么你在观察的那个东西本身 就会经历一次根本性的改变。 到此为止吧。 1:07:35 你们正在这么做吗?不要对此表示同意。 你们能否以这样的方式 去看自己的恐惧呢? 这并不需要什么“练习”。 这(练习)是我们所钟爱的理论之一。 如果你对此感兴趣, 如果你关心那种摆脱恐惧的自由, 你就会去观察了。 而这种观察将会是充满热情的。 它并不只是漫不经心的、 思想智性层面的观察。
1:08:20 So, can you observe the fear, the root of it, which we’ll go into in a minute, the root of it, without any analysis? Now, what is the root of fear? All fear. What do you think it is? Is it not time? Right? I might be ill. I might lose my job. I might be discovered – the wrong things which I’ve done. I am afraid of death, which is in the distance. I’m afraid my wife might get angry – might. Just look at it. I’m not asking you to accept it. Just observe it. 1:09:35 First, reason, logic, non-personal and, therefore, look. Is not fear the movement of time? Movement means time, from here to there, from the past to the present, from the present to the future. All that is movement, which is called time. Now, is that movement of time not thought? I think I might lose my job. I think my wife may be angry, or my wife may discover that I’ve looked at another woman, and so on, so on. So, can you observe the movement of time, which is thought, which is the root of fear, observe it, without trying to do something about it? 1:11:21 It’s like a scientist looking through a microscope, and if he projects what it should be, or what it might be, that remains as is, because he’s dictating what it should be. Whereas, if he’s not dictating, if he has no hypothesis, he’s just looking, that very thing at which he’s looking, through a microscope, begins to change, begins to move. 1:08:20 所以,你能否去观察恐惧, 观察恐惧的根源 ——我们马上就会来探讨一下 恐惧的根源—— 而没有任何的分析? 那么,恐惧的根源是什么呢? 所有恐惧的根源。 你们认为它是什么呢? 它难道不就是「时间」吗? 对吧? 我“也许”会生病。 我也许会丢掉我的工作。 我以前做过的那些肮脏事儿 可能会被发现。 我害怕「死亡」——这件遥远的事情。 我害怕我的妻子也许会生气——也许。 请你们只是去看一下它。 我并没有要你们接受它。 只是去观察一下它。 1:09:35 首先保持理性、逻辑、不要掺杂个人因素, 由此你便能够去「看」了。 「恐惧」不就是「时间的运动」吗? 「运动」就意味着「时间」, 从这里到那里, 从「过去」到「现在」,从「现在」到「未来」。 所有这些都是「运动」 ——而 它被称为“时间”。 现在来看,这种「时间的运动」, 它不就是「思想」吗? 我觉得我可能会失去我的工作。 我觉得我的妻子也许会发火, 或者我的妻子也许会发现 我曾经觊觎别的女人, 等等,等等。 所以,你能否观察「时间的运动」 ——这种运动就是「思想」、就是恐惧的根源—— 去观察它,而不要试图去对它做一些事情? 1:11:21 这就像是一个科学家 透过显微镜在观察, 如果他对所观之物应有的样子 或可能的样子进行设想, 那个事物就会保持原样, 因为他在规定事物应有的样子。 然而,如果他不去规定, 如果他没有什么假设, 他只是去「看」, 那么他通过显微镜观察的那个事物本身, 就会开始发生改变,就会开始运动。
1:11:55 You understand? Are you doing this? Which means, observation implies the absence of the observer, who is the past, who has got theories, conclusions, hopes, fears, directions and so on, so on, so on. To look, without the observer. That does not need discipline, that does not need practice, just to look without your wanting something out of it. Then you will see, if you so look, the very root of fear is beginning to completely change. That means the root, observing so carefully, alertly, with passion, the root begins to dissolve, which is the action of negation. You understand? 1:13:18 Have you got something of this? You know, this is part of meditation. Meditation is not repeating some words, sitting quietly cross-legged for 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes… all that nonsense. How can a mind meditate if it’s full of fears, or is attached to something? The understanding and the freedom from fear, is part of meditation, it is totally, entirely related to daily life. 1:11:55 你们理解了吗?你们在这么做吗? 它的意思就是:「观察」暗示着 「观察者」的缺席 ——观察者就是「过去」, 他有着各种理论、结论、 希望、恐惧、方向,等等 等等。 所以去看,但不要有「观察者」。 这并不需要什么戒律约束, 也不需要什么“练习”, 只是去看,而不要渴望从中获得什么。 如果你能这样子去看,那你就会发现: 恐惧的根源本身 将会开始发生彻底改变。 这意味着那个根源…… 当你如此小心仔细、 如此充满警觉和热情地去观察时, 那个「根源」就会开始消解了 ——而这就是“消极否定性的行动”。 你们听懂了吗? 1:13:18 你们是否已经明白了一些东西? 你瞧,这就是「冥想」的一部分。 「冥想」并不是去反复念诵某些词语, 并不是早上盘腿静坐20分钟, 或者进行20分钟的…… 所有这些荒谬的行为。 如果心灵充满了恐惧, 如果心灵还执著于某个东西,它又怎么可能去冥想呢? 「了解」和「摆脱恐惧」就是冥想的一部分, 而它和我们的日常生活是完全彻底相关的。
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