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SA79T6 - 智慧、爱和慈悲
第六次公开讲话，
瑞士，萨能，
1979年7月19日



1:04 Krishnamurti: I wonder if we could forget all that we have been talking about during the last five gatherings here and begin as though we are meeting for the first time. And not having heard what has been said, start anew, start afresh, so that perhaps we may be able to find some abiding truthful solution to all our complexities and problems. 我们能否忘掉前五次在这里 讨论过的全部内容， 像初次相逢一样，重新开始。 像没听过以前那些东西一样，焕然一新地开始， 那样的话，也许我们会找到些经得起检验的、 真实的办法，让困扰我们的那些错综复杂的问题都得到解决。
2:28 What is the central issue that, if we went into it carefully, diligently, hesitantly, we would come upon that which may resolve all our sorrows, grieves, anxieties, the depressions, the failures, the fulfilments, the frustrations, and all that. Is there one solution or observation, one insight, one comprehension that will bring about a total revolution psychologically in everyone? You understand my question? One answer – absolute, irrevocable, not relative, but complete, whole, lasting, and yet timeless. Is there such a solution? 如果我们认真、勤奋、迟疑地去探究， 我们将面临的那个核心问题，那个可能会把我们的一切不幸、 悲伤、焦虑、抑郁、 失败、满足感、挫折感等等彻底解决的核心问题是什么？ 有没有一种办法，或者一种观察、一种洞见、一种理解， 为每个人带来彻底的心理上的革命？ 大家理解我的问题吗？ 一个绝对的、不可更改的答案， 不是相对的，而是彻底的、完整的、持久的却又是永恒的答案。 有这样的办法吗？
4:22 If each one of us put that question to ourselves, would we answer it according to our particular pleasure, to our particular experience, to our own knowledge? Or would we, if we are at all serious and not too flippant, could we investigate together to find out a remedy that will enlighten our hearts and minds? Can we look at the whole of life, not one particular segment, one particular part, one idiosyncrasy, try to find an answer politically, religiously – I am using the word ‘religiously’ rather sceptically – economically, and so on? Can we look at all these divisions which man has brought about as a whole? To look at this world outside of us with all its innumerable divisions, and inwardly, psychologically, we are fragmented, broken up. And one asks oneself if it is possible to see the whole of this, outer and inner, as a total movement, indivisible, as a whole structural movement of thought? Is that possible? Or our minds are so broken up, so fragmented, so divided, that we are incapable of seeing the whole movement of life as one unitary movement. You understand? 如果我们每个人都问自己这个问题， 我们会根据我们某些特殊的乐趣、 经验和我们自己的知识去回答吗？ 或者，如果我们还算严肃，不是太过轻浮， 我们是否可以一起去调查，去发现一个解决办法， 从而让我们的心灵获得启迪？ 我们能否完整地看待生活，而不是只着眼其中某个特殊的划分、 某个特殊的部分、某个特征， 试图分别在政治、宗教——我是以相当怀疑的态度 使用“宗教”这个词的——和经济等方面找到答案？ 人类造成的这一切分裂，我们能否把它看成是一个整体？ 看到这个外部世界和它不计其数的划分， 还有内心世界，在心理上，我们的支离破碎。 于是你问自己， 是否可能把外在和内在的全部作为一个完整的、 不可分割的运动来看待，作为一个完整的思想运动体系来看待？ 那是可能的吗？ 要么就是我们的头脑太支离破碎，我们 没有能力把生活的整体运动当作一个统一的运动来看待。 大家理解吗？
8:17 Please, as we said the other day, and if I may repeat: we are thinking over together this question, together, not that the speaker investigates and you listen, but rather together, you and the speaker, find out for oneself if there’s a way of living which is comprehensive, which is whole, which is not yours or mine, but a life that is a movement without a beginning and without an end. To find that out, I think it is important, if one may point out, to be aware of one’s own fragmentary outlook. You are either a psychologist, psychotherapist, and you are trained along that particular line, and so one’s brain, one’s conditioning is already established, and therefore one cannot see the whole. Or you may be a businessman – again, the same phenomena takes place. Or if you are a politician, then you are doomed. Or if you are a religious man, inclined to be religious, not accepting any particular dogma, creed, ritual – all that. Or an ordinary human being – of which we are all part of this, with all his anxieties, with his sorrows and pleasures and fears, competition, comparison, measuring himself against others, and always trying to reach something which he has projected and hopes to find it. 注意，就像我们那天说的，要是可以再说一遍的话：我们是在一起思考 这个问题，一起思考，不是由讲话者 来调查，你只是听听而已，其实你是和讲话者一道， 为你自己弄明白，是否存在这样一种生活方式，一种全面的、 完整的，不是你的或者我的， 而是一种无始无终的生活的运动？ 要想查明真相，如果可以指出的话，我认为应该 意识到你自己的观念的残缺不全，这一点很重要。 你或许是位心理学家，心理治疗师，你受过 那种特殊的训练，于是你的大脑、你的条件作用 早已建立起来，因而你无法看到整体。 或许你是个商人，还是会出现同样的现象。 或许你是一个政客，那么你就注定如此了。 或许你是一位宗教人士，想要做一个有宗教之心的人， 不接受任何一种教条、信仰、仪式之类的东西。 或许你是个普通人——我们都是普通人的一份子， 带着他所有的焦虑、悲伤、快乐、恐惧、 竞争、比较，拿自己跟别人相比，总是 试图达到他所投射的并希望找到的什么目标。
12:00 So are we together aware of our fragmentation – actually aware of it? Not imagine that you are fragmented and then think that you are. You follow? Either the idea of fragmentation is so strong, and that idea shapes our thinking, then you think that I am fragmented, or one observes the actual state of the mind, which is fragmented, broken up, shrivelled. Can such a mind observe this extraordinary complex movement with its great beauty, subtlety, can one observe this totally? You understand my question? 那么，我们是一起觉察到我们的分裂——确实觉察到它了吗？ 不是想象你是分裂的，然后想，你是那样的。 你跟上了吗？ 或者是关于分裂的观念太过强大，这个观念影响了 你的思考，于是你想到，我是分裂的，或者是你观察到， 实际上，心是处于分裂、破碎、皱缩状态的。 这样一颗心能否观察到这种异常复杂的运动 以及它的大美和微妙之处，他能完整地观察这个吗？ 大家理解我的问题吗？
13:30 Please, you are not listening to me. I only happen to be sitting on the platform for the convenience of you all, so that you can see the speaker, but the speaker isn’t the authority. In spiritual matters, in the matters of the spirit, in the matters of the investigation, there is no authority, no guru, which is obvious. That is, if you carry the knowledge of others – and perhaps all knowledge is the result of others – and add your own particular knowledge to the accumulated knowledge already in your brain, then to find out if there is one act, one state of mind that will solve all our problems. Do you understand what we are talking about? Are we meeting each other about the question itself? 拜托，你不是在听我讲。 我碰巧坐在台上，只是为了方便大家 看到讲话的这个人，但讲话者并不是权威。 在灵性问题上，在精神的问题上， 在调查研究的问题上，不存在权威，不存在古鲁，这是不言自明的。 也就是说，如果你抱着别人的知识——可能所有的知识 都是别人的成果——并把你自己的那部分知识 添加到脑子里已经积累起来的那部分上去，然后去调查 是否存在一种行动，一种心的状态，能把我们的问题都给解决了。 我们谈的东西，大家理解吗？ 关于这个问题本身，我们彼此沟通上了吗？
15:25 Ignorance is part of knowledge. Right? I wonder if you see that. You know, the whole concept of a priest, the guru, the one who knows, in that concept, that conviction, there’s the one who is enlightened, clear and helps the other to free himself from his own ignorance. And generally, and often, and very, very, very rarely, the authority, who has knowledge, tries to dispel the ignorance of the other, but his knowledge is still part of ignorance. You are following all this? And here, in these gatherings that we have had for the last nearly 20 years, there is no authority whatsoever. Because authority of any kind in spiritual matters makes you a prisoner to another’s system, conviction, ideas, knowledge. Then in that there is no freedom. And to find out if there is a solution to all our complex innumerable problems, is there one seeing, one perception, one observation that frees completely the whole of this structure which man has put together, psychologically? You understand? Are we meeting each other? 无知是知识的一部分。 对吧？ 不知道你是否明白。 你知道，整个这个观念：牧师、古鲁、知晓天机的人， 那个观念和信念就是，有那么一个人，他获得了觉悟， 他心智清明，他帮助别人摆脱自己的无知。 通常情况下，知识的权威 总是试图驱除别人的无知——不那样做的人少之又少—— 可是他的知识依然是无知的一部分。 这些大家都清楚吗？ 而在这里，在我们 差不多二十年的聚会当中，无论何种权威，都是不存在的。 因为在灵性问题上，任何一种权威 都会使你成为别人的体系、信念、观念和知识的囚徒。 那里面是没有自由的。 要想查明是否存在一个让我们解决所有这些错综复杂、 千头万绪的问题的办法，有没有一种看见、一种洞察、 一种观察，让我们从心理上完全摆脱 这个人类所拼凑起来的整个结构？ 大家理解吗？我们彼此沟通上了吗？
18:27 You see, to go into this, one must have great humility; not humbleness, not sycophantism, not touching somebody’s robes and saying, ‘I’m very humble’. That quality of humility that has had no vanity, that has never known vanity. You understand? Otherwise it is not humility. Go into this carefully. Those who are vain, arrogant, full of their own importance and their own knowledge, their own realisation, and all that business, in that there is a sense of self-importance. And that state of mind then cultivates humility. Haven’t you known all this? So a mind that has known vanity in any direction – scientifically, religiously, politically, the sense of achievement which gives one a great self-importance and arrogance – such a mind can never comprehend a quality which is totally free of vanity. We are meeting all this? 你看，要想深入研究这个问题，你必须极为谦逊；不是自感卑微，不是 心理幻觉，不是摸着某人的袍子说：“我非常谦卑。” 那种谦逊的品质是没有任何虚荣的， 是不知虚荣为何物的。 大家明白吗？否则，它就不是谦逊。 仔细思考一下。 那些虚荣、傲慢的人，满脑子都是他们自己如何重要、 他们自己的知识、实现他们自己的理想，等等诸如此类的东西， 在那种想法当中，有一种自我的重要感。 那种心的状态，又去培养谦逊的品质。 所有这些，大家还没明白吗？ 一颗心，无论在哪个方面要是存在虚荣 ——在科学上、宗教上、政治上，这种成就感 会让你感到自己非常重要，让你骄傲自大——这样的心， 永远也无法领悟那种彻底摆脱了虚荣的品质。 所有这些我们都沟通上了吗？
20:52 And people have also tried, for millennia upon millennia, to find that absolute solution to their lives through austerity. Austerity is harsh, strict, severe, stridently noisy – right? – stridently strict: putting on robes – sorry, I am not talking of those gentlemen here – putting on robes of different colours all over the world and imagine that they are stridently simple. It is only the noise of their simplicity that prevents them from being simple. Because when you are simple, it doesn’t matter what clothes you have on. But clothes have become extraordinarily important in the world, in the religious world, indicating a tradition which you accept and thereby hope to lead a simple life. Man has tried several things, played so many tricks upon himself and those of us, if we are at all serious, and efficiently honestly trying to find out a way of life and therefore a way of action, which comes from the comprehension, from the perception of that one solution. Right? Are we meeting each other? Don’t be angry with me please, those of you who have got this different robes, and so on, we have been through all that. It doesn’t mean a thing. 几千年来，人们也试图 通过苦行，为他们的生活找到彻底的解决办法。 苦行生活是艰苦的，严格而又严酷，非常地扎眼——对吧？ 非常地严格：穿着长袍——抱歉，我不是指 在座的那些先生们——全世界的苦行者 穿着各种颜色的长袍，自以为极其朴素。 正是他们的朴素中这种招人眼目的东西 妨碍了他们的朴素。 因为你要是朴素的话，你对于穿什么衣服就无所谓了。 可是，在这个世界，在宗教世界， 服装却变得特别的重要起来了，它表示你所接受的 某个传统和你因此想要过一种朴素生活的愿望。 人类曾经做过一些尝试，在自己身上玩过非常多的把戏， 我们这些人，要是我们还算严肃，我们是在试图切实地、 诚实地去探明一种生活之道，因而 找到一种来自于理解， 来自于对那一个解决方案的洞察的行动方式。 对吧？我们互相沟通上了吗？ 请不要生我的气，你们谁要是穿了这个 袍子之类衣服的话，那些东西我们都讲过了。 它没有任何意义。
24:20 I once followed in the Himalayas a group of monks. It was a beautiful country, wild rhododendrons, lilies, the flowers of the alps of that altitude, and the great pine trees shooting into the heavens, blue skies, and the birds were singing. It was a lovely day. And these monks never looked up, never looked at the trees, the flowers, the skies, and the wonder of the world because they were concerned about their own ritual, their own mantras repeating. And they think through that way they will find the heaven. 有一回，在喜马拉雅山区，我走在一群僧人后面。 那是一个美丽的地方，开着野杜鹃花，百合花， 以及那个海拔高度上阿尔卑斯山也有的各种花， 还有参天的巨松，天很蓝，鸟儿在歌唱。 这是多么好的一天。 可是这些僧人从不抬头，从不去看看这些树木、 花朵、天空，还有这个世界的奇迹， 他们关心的是他们自己的仪式和他们反复唱颂的曼陀罗。 他们以为那种方法会让他们找到天国。
25:52 Here, if one may point out, the meaning of the word ‘mantra’ – probably you all know about it. It is a Sanskrit word which means – please, listen – which means consider, meditate, ponder over not becoming and also put aside all self-centred activity. That word ‘mantra’ means that. Consider, go into your own becoming and put aside every form of selfish activity – that is the real meaning of that word. And look what these yogis have done to that word! You understand? 这里，如果可以指出的话，“曼陀罗”这个词的含义， 很可能大家都知道。 它是梵语词汇，意思是——请听好—— 意思是对于不成为什么进行仔细的思考和冥想， 并放下所有自我中心的活动。 曼陀罗这个词是那个意思。 仔细思考、深入调查你的想要成为什么的想法，放弃各种形式的 自私自利的活动——那是那个词的真实含义。 可是你看那些瑜伽师们是怎么糟蹋那个词的！ 大家明白吗？ 那么，看到所有这一切，为了找到智慧，经受各种身体折磨，
27:12 So, seeing all this, the various forms of physical torture in order to find enlightenment, various forms of rituals, robes, repetitions, and these have not in any way changed human being and his relationship, so that there is a new good society. We mean by that word ‘good’ not the nursery meaning, ‘Be a good boy’. It is not a respectable word, it is not a word that you can say, ‘Well, that is old-fashioned, throw it out’, but that word ‘good’ has an excellent meaning, significance. And man through all these endeavours has never brought about a good society where people live happily, without conflict, without violence, with a great sense of responsibility, with care, with affection. That is what we mean by that word ‘good’. Man has not been able to achieve it. One of the main reasons for this ugliness in the world is that all of us, most human beings, probably 99%, are fragmented, broken up. And when one realises this, that one is in a state of fragmentation, one is cognisant of it, aware without any choice – it is so. It is not that the speaker is imposing this on you, but it is a fact. And can that mind, which is fragmented, can that heart, which is also caught up in various romantic, emotional, sentimental, illusory nonsense, can that mind ever come to this, to find a solution that is everlasting? You understand my question? Right? 遵循各种仪式，穿各种长袍， 重复各种唱诵，可是这些并没有让人类以及人类的关系 发生任何改变，从而带来一个崭新的好的社会。 我们使用“好”这个字眼，不是指幼儿教育中的那个含义，“做个好孩子”， 它不是一个表示体面的字眼，它不是你可以说， “嗯，它已经过时了，把它扔掉，”的一个字， 其实，“好”这个字含义深刻、意义非凡。 而人类的所有努力，并未创造出一个好的 社会，使人们没有冲突，没有暴力， 怀有巨大的责任感，带着关心和爱，快乐地生活。 我们使用的“好”这个字，是这个意思。 人类未能实现这样的社会。 世界上之所以存在这种丑陋的现象，主要原因之一,就是我们所有人， 绝大多数人，很可能99%的人，都是分裂的、支离破碎的。 当你认识到这一点，认识到你处于分裂状态的时候， 你会意识到，没有选择地觉察到它——它就是如此。 讲话者不是把这个强加给你，它是一个事实。 那颗分裂的心， 那颗还被各种愚蠢的浪漫、伤感、 虚幻、冲动所纠缠的心，能否 走到这一步，去寻找一个持久不变的解决办法？ 大家理解我的问题吗？ 对吧？
31:03 How shall we find it? Is it dependent on another? Follow this carefully. Can another, however much he may think he is lord, and this and the other, can another lead you or help you to that? Right? Please, ask this question. Can a group, can a community, can a series of ideas, conclusions help you to that? Or one must be a light to oneself, not the light which has been kindled at the other’s lamp or candle, or fire. You are following this? Please, give your heart to understand all this! Which means not only your heart, your mind, your brain. Freedom is not acting according to whatever you like. That is too childish, which is what is happening in the world, because everybody is doing what they want. And any prevention, any restraint on that is considered lack of fulfilment. Therefore permissiveness in every direction – religiously, socially, morally – is encouraged. And this permissiveness, that is doing exactly what one likes, or saying, ‘It appeals to me, I feel good in that’, denies freedom. We are talking psychologically, not freedom from law, from the policeman, from taxes – but freedom, from the dependence on another psychologically, because the other, when he instructs you from his knowledge, from his position, from his status, that knowledge is still part of ignorance, 我们怎么才能找到它呢？ 这能依靠别人吗？ 请仔细理解这一点。 另外一个人，不论他怎样自诩为大师 什么的，他能引导你或者帮助你找到吗？ 对吧？ 请提出这个问题来。 一个群体、一个社团、 一系列理念、结论能帮助你搞清楚吗？ 还是说，你必须做自己的明灯，而不是借助 别人的油灯、蜡烛，或者炉火来点燃的灯。 大家明白这一点吗？ 注意，这一切都要用心理解！ 不仅要用你的心，还要用你的头脑、你的智力。 自由并非为所欲为。 那种想法太幼稚了，世界现在就是这样， 人人都想做什么就做什么。 稍有制止、稍有限制，就被看作是让人缺乏满足感。 于是，自由放任在各个方面， 在宗教上、社会上和道德上都是受到支持的。 而这种自由放任，这种你爱干什么就干什么，或者 “它对我有吸引力，它让我感觉很好”的说法否定了自由 ——我们正在讨论的是心理方面的问题，不是那种不受法律、 警察管辖和不纳税的自由，——而是在心理上摆脱了 对别人的依赖的自由，因为另一个人，当他根据 他的知识、立场和地位来指导你的时候， 他的知识依然是无知的一部分，因为知识
34:57 because knowledge can never be complete, therefore it is always part of ignorance. Right? I wonder if you see that. Of course. Because knowledge can never be whole, can never be complete, total. And therefore in it there is ignorance. When you realise that, when you see that, that you cannot possibly in matters of the spirit, in matters of the psyche, in the matters of deep religious enquiry, there is no dependence completely on anybody. That is freedom, with its responsibility to be a light to oneself. Are you following all this? Are we like that? Because we are going together to find out, please, find out for ourselves, not at the behest of another, not stimulated by another, not encouraged by another, but find out for oneself totally, completely, which is not egotistic – so that one can be a light to oneself. Right? 永远都不可能是完整的，所以它总是无知的一部分。 对吧？ 这一点大家明白吗？就是这样。 因为知识永远都不可能是完整的，永远都不可能是完全和彻底的。 所以其中存在着无知。 当你认识到那一点，当你看到那一点，你就会明白， 在灵性问题上，在精神的问题上，在深入的 宗教探索的问题上，你根本就不可能依赖任何人。 那就是自由，它包含着做自己的明灯的责任。 这些大家都跟上了吗？我们是那个样子吗？ 因为我们要一起去弄清楚，请注意，是替我们自己弄清楚， 不是因为别人的吩咐，不是因为别人的激励， 不是因为别人的鼓励，而是完全彻底地替自己弄个清楚， 这并不是自我主义——这样，你就可以做自己的明灯。 对吧？我们是在一起调查这个问题吗？
37:05 Are we together in this? not agreeing, not being cornered in a tent and therefore you are forced to agree, or stimulated by the speaker with his intensity. If you are, then it is just a flame that can be blown out by the next wind. 不是表示同意，不是因为被堵在帐篷里，所以 你被迫同意，也不是因为讲话者的认真劲儿让你热情高涨。 要是那样，它就不过是一个火苗，一阵风就会把它吹灭。 我说了这么多，你的心——就是你的大脑，
37:57 So having said all this, is your mind – your mind being your brain, your senses, the quality of thinking, knowing its limitation, being prepared – not prepared, I won’t use that word ‘prepared’, preparation implies time, that is one of our pet theories that we need time to be a light to oneself – are our minds after listening to all this, even though you are listening for the first time. And it is only you are actually listening for the first time if you are really paying attention. You know, it is like looking at the sunset or the sunrise: the beauty and the extraordinary light is never the same. You can see it day after day, day after day, month after month, you never say, ‘Well, I have seen it once, it is enough’. If we have paid attention to what has been said and what is being said, it is not a repetition. Beauty is never that which is constantly happening, it is always new. A marvellous classical painting or if you listen to music, it is new all the time. But our minds get so dulled by words and by the repetition of words, you say, ‘I am bored with it. You have said all that before’. But if you listen, there is always something new like the sunset, like the evening star, like the waters of a river. We have still time! 你的感官，你思考的品质，在了解到它的局限之后， 做好准备了吗——不是准备，我不想用“准备”这个词， 准备意味着时间，那是我们最钟爱的理论之一， 以为我们需要时间来做自己的明灯——听了所有这些话， 我们的心，即使你是第一次听， 你只有确实是第一次听的时候， 才会真正注意我讲的东西。 你知道，这就像是看日出或者日落， 那种美，那种不同凡响的光永远都不会有重复。 你可以日复一日，月复一月地看， 你绝不会说，“嗯，我看过一次了，我看够了”。 如果我们专心地听了刚才讲的 和正在讲的东西，它不是重复。 美绝不是那种不断重复的事物，美是常新的。 一幅非凡的古典绘画， 或者如果你听一首曲子，它始终是新鲜的。 可是我们的心会对话语，对重复的话 产生很枯燥的感觉，你会说，“我听烦了。 那些东西以前你都讲过了”。 可是，如果你去听，就总会有些新鲜的东西， 就像是日落，就像是傍晚的金星，就像是河里的流水。 我们还有时间！
41:52 We are asking you – together – if our minds and therefore our hearts, our whole being, senses, the quality of the senses which are not divided – you understand? – which are together, and a thought and thinking, knowing that it is limited, fragmented, always of time, and a brain that is the result of millennia, conditioned, full of memories, knowledge, experience, like a computer, but of course it is much more capable than a computer, the brain has invented the computer, but the brain also is active as a computer. So we are saying the whole of this, can we enquire with this quality of mind? Or just be in a state of observation, just to observe without the observer. Because the observer is the past, the observer is the result of all the experience, senses, responses, reactions, memories – he is that. To observe without the observer, so that there is only pure observation, not distorted, not broken-up, not the result of choice, like and – you know, just to observe. 我们在问你——我们一起来问——如果我们的心， 我们的整个存在，感官，感官的品质， 这些都是密不可分的——大家明白吗？——它们是一体的 而思想和思考——你知道，它是局限的、分裂的—— 总与时间有关，还有这个经过几千年所形成的， 被制约着，装满了记忆、知识和经验的大脑，就像计算机一样 ——当然，它比计算机能力更强，大脑 发明了计算机，可是大脑也像计算机一样活跃。 那么，我们说的是，所有这一切， 我们能够以这样一种心的品质去进行调查吗？ 还是说，就是处于观察的状态，就是去观察，而没有观察者？ 因为，观察者是过去，观察者是所有的 经验、感觉、回应、反应和记忆的结果，那就是他。 没有观察者地观察， 于是就只有纯粹的观察，不是扭曲的、分裂的观察， 也不是受到选择、喜好等等影响的观察——你知道，就是观察。
44:49 Then in that state of pure observation is there one act, one insight, one total perception of something that will resolve all these problems? You have understood? There is. Now careful! The speaker says there is. You know nothing about it, naturally. If you are aware of it, you wouldn’t be here. The speaker says – and please, listen carefully – it is not authority, it is not the result of experience, it is not the result of accumulated knowledge, it is none of that. The speaker says there is a solution, a way out of all this terrible confusion and misery and fear, torture and terror. Right? So don’t accept it. Where are you at the end of this? Please, I am asking this – the speaker is asking this very seriously. We have talked for 20 minutes, an hour, 40 minutes, 50 minutes, at the end of it, what is the quality of your mind that is capable – please, listen – capable of receiving something. You say, ‘Yes’, and the ‘yes’ is your own discovery, your own light, your own total attention which you have given to find this out. 那么，在这种纯粹的观察状态当中，是否存在会解决这一切问题的 一种行动、一种洞见、一种对于某种事物的完整领悟呢？ 大家明白了吗？ 是存在的。 当心！ 讲话者说存在。 你对此一无所知，很自然。 如果你意识到它了，你就不会到这儿来。 讲话者说——请仔细听 ——这不是权威，不是经验的结果， 不是知识累积的结果，这不是那一类东西。 讲话者说，有一个办法，完全摆脱这种 极度的混乱、不幸和恐惧，摆脱这种折磨和恐怖。 对不对？ 不要接受我的话。 听完这些，你是什么状态？ 请注意，我问的是——讲话者是在非常严肃地问。 我们谈了20分钟，一个小时，40分钟，50分钟； 谈到最后，你的心，这颗具有接收某些信息的能力的心， 请听好——是个什么样的品质。 你说“是的”，而这个“是的”是你自己的发现，是你自己的明灯， 是你自己为了把它弄清楚而投入的全部的注意力。
48:13 Let me go into it carefully. One must have intelligence. Intelligence is different from knowledge. In knowledge, as we pointed out earlier, there is ignorance. Right? Whereas intelligence is free from ignorance and therefore free from illusion, and it is not the result of accumulated knowledge – right? – intelligence. The quality of intelligence comes when there is perception and action. That is, perception and no interval between perception and action. You see – act. I wonder if you understand this. Are you following this? You see danger – right? – like a precipice. And the very perception is action – you move away instantly. That is intelligence. That is part of that intelligence. You see a dangerous snake – and instant action. Right? That’s fairly simple because there it is a physical response. And the physical reaction is self-preservation, which is intelligence. It is the unintelligent that sees the danger and pursues it. You understand? Intelligence is the perception of that which is psychologically dangerous and acting instantly. That is intelligence. Psychologically it is dangerous to depend on another: for affection, for love, for comfort, for enlightenment, that is dangerous because you are not free. And therefore the very perception of that danger and the acting of it is intelligence. Right? 让我把它仔细地探究一下。 你必须拥有智慧。 智慧不同于知识。 正如我们前面指出，知识里面包含着无知。 对吧？ 而智慧是摆脱了无知， 因而摆脱了幻觉的，它不是 积累的知识的产物——对吧？——智慧。 有了洞察和行动，智慧的品质就会显现。 就是说，洞察而且洞察与行动没有时间间隔。 你看到，行动。 这一点大家理解吗？ 这个大家跟上了吗？ 你看到危险——对吧？——比如悬崖。 这个洞察就是行动，你立刻离开。 那就是智慧。 那是那种智慧的一部分。 你看到一条危险的蛇——会有即刻的行动。 对吧？ 那相当简单，因为它是一种身体反应。 而身体的反应是自我保护，那是智慧。 看到危险还去追逐危险，就是愚蠢。 大家理解吗？ 智慧是洞察到 心理上危险的东西并立即行动。 那就是智慧。 在心理上依赖别人是危险的： 对于关怀、爱、安慰 和启迪的依赖，那是危险的，因为你不是自由的。 所以，对于那种 危险的洞察和行动恰恰就是智慧。 是不是？
51:58 One must have that quality of intelligence. That intelligence is denied when you are conforming to a pattern laid down by the gurus, by – it doesn’t matter who – some idiotic person, or conforming, imitating, following. Therefore there is the ideal and the action which is different from the ideal, or conforming, or adjusting to the ideal which is lack of perception – right? – lack of seeing the actual movement of this. And when there is perception, the ideal, the imitation the conformity, following totally ends and that is intelligence. You are following all this? I am not defining intelligence. It is so. It is only the neurotic that sees the danger and continues. The neurotic, the stupid, the thoughtless, the man who just follows his own particular idiosyncrasy, pleasures, and gives it a rational meaning, and so on. 你必须拥有这种智慧的品质。 你要是遵循古鲁们——不管是谁—— 或者某个白痴所规定的模式，或者你要是遵从、 模仿、追随别人，那么你就破坏了那份智慧。 因此，存在着理想和不同于理想的 行动，或者遵从理想，根据理想进行调整——这就是 缺乏觉察——对吧？——对于这种实际的运动缺乏认识。 而当存在觉察的时候，理想、模仿、 遵从和追随就彻底结束了，而那就是智慧。 这一切大家都跟上了吗？我不是在给智慧下定义。 它就是如此。 只有神经质的人才会明明看到了危险，还继续往前走。 神经质的人、愚蠢的人、没有头脑的人， 这种人只会听从他自己的那个癖好和 乐趣，赋予它一个理性的意义什么的。
53:44 So one must have this quality of intelligence. Then with that intelligence, is there a state, a movement or whatever you like to call it, which can solve all these innumerable conflicts and miseries? You are following all this? The mind that is totally intelligent. And that mind is enquiring. 所以，你必须拥有这种智慧的品质。 那么，带着那种智慧，是否存在一种状态、 一个行动或者无论你叫它什么都行， 从而可以解决这无数的冲突和不幸？ 所有这些大家都跟上了吗？ 这颗完全智慧的心。 这颗正在询问的心。
54:40 Questioner: It sounds quite violent. The quality of the mind should not be violent. I am sorry to interrupt but… 提问者：这听起来感觉太粗暴了。 心的品质不应该是粗暴的。
54:51 K: Sir, if I may point out most respectfully... 克：先生，要是我可以极为恭敬地指出的话...
54:55 Q: You cannot define intelligence in such a violent manner, the consequences of this, sir, is violence, violence towards yourself, violence towards your fellow human beings. Honestly, sir! 提问者：你不能用这种粗暴的方式定义智慧。 其后果，先生，就是暴力， 粗暴地对待你自己，粗暴地对待你的同类。 真是的，先生！
55:15 K: Sir, there are going to be 5 days of dialogue. Then please, raise these questions. The speaker is not preventing you from asking questions, from doubting what he says, from questioning everything that he has said. But this is not the occasion. So please, have patience and consideration. 克：先生，后面有五天的讨论。 请在那个时候再提这些问题。 讲话者不是不让你提问 和怀疑他讲的东西，不是不让你质疑他讲过的任何事情。 而是现在还不是时候。 所以请保持耐心和对他人的体谅。
56:11 With that intelligence, we are enquiring to find out if there is – there may not be – if there is an act, a state, a quality that resolves every issue of our life. Surely – I am hesitant because one has to use words that have been spoilt, one has to use a word that has lost all its meaning. A word like ‘love’ has become sexual, sensory, sensuous. With it goes pleasure, fear, anxiety, dependence, and all the ugliness that takes place in the so-called relationship. So one uses that word very, very hesitantly. It is in no way related to jealousy, fear, or sorrow. It is total responsibility, not only to your immediate person but the total responsibility to the whole of life, not only your life, but the other life. I say that love is the total answer. Without that, do what you will, stand on your head for the rest of your life, sit in a position, lotus, or whatever you do. So with that intelligence, goes the other. You understand? Without intelligence you cannot have the other. They are inseparable. And that is why compassion has this quality of great intelligence. And that is the solution which will solve all our problems. Right, sir. 我们是以那种智慧来质询，调查是否存在， 或许是不存在的，是否存在一个行动、 一种状态、一种品质，来解决我们生活当中的每一个问题。 想必是有的——我是迟疑的，因为我不得不使用那些已经给糟蹋了的文字， 我不得不使用一个已经失去了它全部意义的字。 像爱这个字，它已经变成性、感官和肉感的字眼了， 人们把它跟快乐、恐惧、焦虑、依赖 以及所谓的关系里的一切丑陋之事混为一谈了。 所以，我使用那个字是非常非常迟疑的。 它跟嫉妒、恐惧或者悲伤毫无关系。 它是完全的责任感，不仅是对你最为亲近的人的责任感，而且是 对所有生命的完全的责任感，不仅是你的生命，还包括其他的生命。 我说爱就是完整的答案。 没有爱，无论你做什么，你可以在余生里一直倒立着， 以某种姿势坐着，莲花式，或者无论你做什么。 所以，另一个事物是与那种智慧相伴而生的。 大家理解吗？ 没有智慧，你就无法拥有另一个事物。 他们密不可分。 那就是为什么慈悲具有这种伟大智慧的品质。 而那就是我们全部问题的解决之道。 对吧，先生。
1:00:40 May I leave? 我可以走了吗？