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SA80T7 - 生命中可有任何神圣之物?
第七次公开讲话
瑞士,萨能
1980年7月20日



0:19 Krishnamurti: This is the last talk. There will be Question and Answer meetings for five days from Wednesday, Sunday included. 这是最后一次讲座。 接下来我们将会有答问的聚会.. 共五天,从星期三起,包括星期日在内。
0:52 We have talked over together about the complications of our life. Our whole existence is so complex, with all its illusions, symbols and ideas and images, and our own personal ambitions, attachments of various kinds. And the world, of which we are, is becoming more and more confused, brutal, more and more divisive, destructive, without any sense of morality, and our society is very corrupt, as our religions are. And observing all this, as one must if one is serious, what is a human being to do? What are we, each one of us, to do in this mad world? Shall we go off into some exclusive club of religiosity? Become some kind of monks? Throw ourselves into some social reform? Join the Communist party, or other political activists? Or is there a way, totally detached from all this, totally disassociated from all this, is there a way of living totally, completely differently, living in this world? That is a great question, and it demands a serious answer. 我们已经一同谈论过 关于我们生命的复杂性。 我们的整个存在是如此复杂 充满那些幻觉,符号和理念,和影像 还有我们个个人的野心 以及各种各样的执着。 而这个世界,我们组成的世界 正变得越来越混乱,残酷 越来越多的分割,破坏性 没有丝毫的道德感 而我们的社会是非常腐败,我们的宗教也是一样。 而观察了这一切,如果我们是认真的,我们就必须观察 那么一个人应该做些什么呢? 我们应该,我们每个人应该,在这疯狂的世界上做些什么呢? 我们是否应该去加入某些宗教性质的高级俱乐部? 去成为某种僧侣? 投身去推行某些社会改革? 去加入共产党,或其他政治活动? 还是有另一种方式 它超然这一切 完全脱离这一切 有没有某种完全彻底不同的生活方式 让我们存活在这个世界上? 这是一个大问题,因而需要一个认真的答案。
3:57 Can we, each of us, who are human beings living in this world, human beings who are actually the whole global humanity, can we, without becoming committed to any political party, Left, Right, Centre, not belonging to any religions, organised religion, to any guru, to any commune committed to an ideal, to any system, method, because they have all become so corrupt, and what... shall we? Perhaps some of us are serious, some of us half-serious and the others casual. If we are at all serious in the sense of not being committed to anything, because we have understood the nature of being committed: being attached to your clothes, to a peculiar dress one wears, after having been in India – and all that. Not belonging to anything. Can we live in this world, earn our livelihood, be related to other human beings, be so totally free. Because only then, perhaps, we will know what love is. We have exercised our intellect, we have written books, given lectures, converted others, either to Communism or to other forms of religious quackery. And when we are disillusioned, we move away from them and the others are caught in it. This is what is happening. And it seems to one, we must begin with uncertainty to find complete security, certainty. 我们能否我们每一个生活在这个世界上的人 实际上是全球人类的人 我们能否,不向任何政党承诺 左派,右派,中间派,不归属于任何宗教 有组织的宗教,不跟随任何大师 不参与任何推崇本身理想的公社 任何系统,方法,因为它们都变得如此腐败 而我们应该做些什么呢? 也许在我们之间,有些人很认真 有些人半认真,而其余的却很随意。 如果我们真的是认真的 也就是说我们不向任何事物承诺 因为我们已经明白了承诺的本质 去执着你的衣服 在你到过印度之后 所穿的奇特的衣服 - 所有那些的本质。 不去归属任何东西。 我们能否生活在这个世界上 赚钱过日子 与其他人联系 却完全自由自在。 因为只有那样,或许,我们才会知道什么是爱。 我们应用过我们的知识,我们写过书 给过讲座,教别人去信奉 共产主义或其他形式的宗教骗人把戏。 而当我们的幻想破灭时 我们疏远他们,而其他人却还是身陷其中。 这就是现今正在发生的事情。 而在我看来,我们必须在摸索中开始 去寻找完整的安全性,确定性。
7:27 As we said the other day, we are talking over together. You are not accepting anything the speaker is saying. You are beginning, I hope, to question, to doubt, not only what the speaker is saying, but also doubt your own activities, your own form of drug. You may not take LSD, and there are various other forms of drugs, alcohol and smoking – you know all that – but also you may be drugged by belief, drugged by ideals, drugged by authority of someone who says, ‘I know, you don’t, I will help you’. Or ‘I will point the way’. Those are all various forms of drugs because they cripple the clarity of one’s own perception. 正如那天我们所说,我们是在一同讨论。 你不必去接受发言者所说的话。 你要去开始,我希望,去质疑 去怀疑,不仅怀疑发言者的话 而且也要怀疑你自己的活动 你自己格式的麻醉药 你可能不食用迷幻药,而我们却有各式各样的麻醉药 酒精和烟草,你知道,那一切 但你也可以用信仰来麻醉自己 用理想来麻醉自己 用权威来麻醉自己 那个说,'我懂,你不懂,我会帮你? 或说,'我会指点路途’的权威。 那些都是不同形式的麻醉药 因为它们都会削弱我们看法的清晰度。
8:58 So we are asking together: is it possible to live in this world without any motive? Because love has no motive. If I have a motive to love you, because you are kindly attending this tent, or I derive some benefit psychologically in talking to you, then I am already corrupt, I am already lost. Out of that corruption, one can create all kinds of illusions, all kinds of ideas, ideals. So can one be free from all this? Because we are going to discuss presently what is meditation, what is religion, if there is anything sacred in life, which man throughout the ages has sought, something beyond thought, beyond time, beyond all the mischief the intellect has brought about. Is there something which is incorruptible, timeless, which is beyond all thought? This, man has sought throughout immemorial days. 因此,我们要一同去问: 到底有没有可能毫无任何动机地生活在这个世界上? 因为爱是没有动机的。 如果我有一个爱你的动机 因为你是好心照顾这个帐篷 或者我和你聊天时,在心理上获得一些好处 那么我就已经腐败,我就已经迷失了。 由于这个腐败,我们制造了各种幻想 各种各样的理念,理想。 因此,我们能不能摆脱这一切呢? 因为我们现在要去讨论什么是禅修 什么是宗教,如果在生命中有任何东西是神圣的 这古往今来人类一直在寻求的东西 一些超越念头,超越时间 超越知识所带来的一切恶作剧。 到底有没有这种东西,它不会腐败,没有时间 并且超越一切念头? 这个东西,人类自远古以来一直都在寻求。
11:07 And if we are at all serious in our own life, we see how empty it is. You may put on all kinds of garbs, beguile yourself with daydreams, beguile yourselves with imagination, images. And it becomes more important to find out why human minds have created images, not only out there – in the temples, in the churches, and all the rest of it. In the Islamic world, the mosques are not filled with images, but they have their own form of images, the script which goes from left to right. Beautiful script, but that becomes the image, the symbol, the idea. So one must ask before we enter into this question of meditation, why we create images – you understand? – images of ideas, symbols, concepts, and according to symbols, images, concepts we live: why human beings have done this from time beyond measure? 如果我们对我们自己的生命是认真的 我们就会看到它是那么的空虚。 你可以穿上各类服饰 用白日梦来瞒骗自己 用想象,影像来迷惑自己。 而那也就变得更加重要去找出 为什么人的头脑,去创造出那些偶像,不仅是在 寺庙里,教堂里,也在其余各处。 在伊斯兰世界 清真寺里没有这些偶像 但是却有他们自己款式的形像 那个从左至右的文字。 美丽的文字,但它已变成偶像,符号,理念。 因此,在进入禅修的课题之前,我们一要问 为什么我们要去创造这些影像 你明白吗? - 理念的影像 符号,概念的影像 并且根据这些符号,影像,概念去过日子: 为什么人类在无从测量的时期开始,就这样做呢?
13:07 I do not know if you have not observed, when you are related to some person, intimately or otherwise, the mind and thought has already created an image. Obviously, you, who are kind enough to come here, you have already created an image about the speaker, you can’t help it. You have it as you have an image about your wife, husband, and so on. Why does the mind, thought, the brain, create these images? Because it is very important to understand it, because that may be the reason, the cause why human beings do not love. 我不知道你是否没有发现 当你与某人有了某种关系,亲密或不亲密 你的心和念头,早就创造了一个影像。 显然,你那么热心地来到这里 是由于你早已创造了一个关于发言者的影像 你没办法。你创造它 正如你创造你的妻子,丈夫,和其他人的影象一样。 为什么我们的心,念头,大脑,会创造这些影像呢? 因为理解它是非常重要的 因为它可能是那个理由 那个为何人类不会去爱的原因。
14:22 Hay fever – I am not crying. 花粉症 - 我不是在哭泣。
14:35 If you have observed yourself, the activity of your own thought and mind, and heart and brain, in your relationship you have an image about her or him – why? Please, as we said, put this question to yourself. I am not putting the question to you. You, who are living in this world with all the divisions and mess, and utter misery and depression, degeneration, why you have an image. Having an image about anything, does that give security? You understand my question? One feels safe: when you have an image about another, you feel safe. Because the other is moving, living, striving, pushing, and if you don’t have an image about the person, then your mind and heart, everything has to be tremendously active. And most of our minds are lazy, befogged, clouded, without any subtlety, movement, quickness. So having an image about another gives one great security. 如果你去观察自己 观察你自己的念头和思想,心和大脑的活动 在你与他人的关系中,你会有一个关于她或他的影象 - 为什么? 拜托,如我们所说,问你自己这个问题。 我不问你这个问题。 你,生活在这个世界上的你 生活在分割和混乱,以及悲惨苦难和沮丧 退化中的你,为什么会有一个影像。 对任何事物都会有一个影象 这是否能提供你安全感? 你明白我的问题吗? 你感到安全 当你有一个关于他人的影像,你就会感到安全。 因为他在活动,生活,奋斗,推动 如果你没有那个人的影像 那么你的脑和心 每个东西都应该非常活跃。 而我们的脑却很懒惰 迷茫,阴霾 没有任何细微之处,运动,敏捷。 所以有了一个他人的影象 就会给我们很大的安全感。
16:51 You who are kindly listening to the speaker, you have an image about him – bound to – otherwise you wouldn’t be here: the reputation, and all that nonsense. So having an image, one feels one knows. You don’t know me, the speaker, nor your wife, nor your husband, nor your friend, but having an image, you think you know. So knowledge becomes, through the image, a sense of wellbeing, safe, security, and thereby gradual degeneration of the brain, the mind, because then you become lazy, you accept it, you never question the image itself, you never doubt the image. The image that Christianity has imposed on people, the image that the Hindus, the Buddhists, and so on, to have these images gives one a sense of security, a sense of wellbeing. And so gradually the enormous vitality which the brain has, gradually withers away, and in that withering, which is unconscious, we feel, one feels safe, secure, traditional, ‘stay put’. 你这样热心去听发言者讲话 你有一个关于他的影像 - 肯定的 否则,你就不会在这里: 他的声誉和所有荒谬之处。 所以有了一个影象,我们感觉我们知道。 你不知道我,这个发言者 不知道你的妻子,你的丈夫,你的朋友 但是有了一个影像,你认为你知道。 因此,知识也就成为,通过影像 一种安好,安全,安固的感觉 从而使到大脑,心智逐渐退化 因为你变得懒惰,你接受它 你从不去质疑那个影像本身,你从不怀疑那个影像。 那些基督教强加给人们的影像 印度教徒,佛教徒,以及其他的影像 拥有这些影像会给人们一种安全感 一个安好的感觉。 因此,大脑的巨大活力也就慢慢地 逐渐消失 而在这不知不觉的凋零之中 我们却感觉,我们却觉得安全,可靠,传统,'如如不动'。
19:09 Please, observe this in yourselves, not what the speaker is saying. Find out, if one may suggest, whether it is true or not. Not what the speaker is saying, but the image that you have, whether that image is not making your mind dull, whether that image is not preventing the extraordinary flowering of love. Because without that quality, that strange flower, one cannot possibly have order in one’s life, and therefore order outwardly. Society is created by each one of us. It isn’t the creation of some strange individuals in the far past or some superhuman God, but the society in which we live is created by human beings, through their ambition, through their greed, through their competition, through their constant struggle, through their vanity, aggression, and so on. So the society is what we are. And this is important to understand: unless we radically bring about a transformation in ourselves, we shall always live in a corrupt society. And therefore that corruption brings danger, terrorism, Communism, all the divisive elements in society. Please, do pay attention to all this. It is your life. 请在你自己身上观察这一点,不是只听发言者的话而已。 去找出来,如果我可以建议,它到底是真是假。 不是发言者所说的 而是你所有的影像 那个影像是不是使你的头脑变得迟钝 那个影像是不是没有阻止 爱异常地盛开。 因为如果没有那种质量,那种奇特的花朵 我们将不可能拥有秩序 在生命中,当然也包括外在的秩序。 社会是由我们每一个人创建的。 它不是某些远古的奇人的创作 或由某个超人的神所创 而是,我们生活的社会,是由人类创造的 通过他们的野心,通过他们的贪婪 通过他们的竞争,通过他们不断的奋斗 通过他们的虚荣心,侵略性,等等。 因此,社会就是我们。 因此,我们必须明确知道: 除非我们从根本上去转变自己 我们将永远生活在一个腐败的社会里。 因此,这个腐败会带来危险 恐怖主义,共产主义,所有分化社会的元素。 请大家关注这一切。这是你们的生活。
21:53 So we are asking, whether you can live in this life without a single image. Which means: is there security beyond the image? You understand my question? Is there a sense of wellbeing, a sense of not being hurt, psychologically, wounded? Is there such a state, so completely secure, not the security brought about by thought, through the image, through the symbol, through various forms of conclusions, ideals, and so on, which do not give security, but it gives the illusion of being secure? You are following all this? Oh, for God’s sake, we are moving together? It is very difficult to talk or have a serious meeting with so many people, because we are all thinking so many different things. Each one is concerned with his own problems, with his own desires, with his own pursuits; you are committed to this guru or to that idea, so you just come and listen, agree, disagree, just casually carry on. But if you are serious, and life demands that one be serious, not only in the present state of the world, what people have done in the present, and the people who are doing it; if you are not aware of all that, which is in ourselves, then we live and bring about corruption, degeneration. 因此,我们问 你能否一个影像也没有地去生活。 这意味着:是否有超越影像的安全感? 你明白我的问题吗? 是否有安乐感 一个在心理上不被伤害,受伤的感觉? 是否有这样完全安全的状态 不是念头带来的安全感 透过影像,透过符号 透过各种形式的结论,理想,等等 这些都不能提供安全 只能给我们安全的假象? 你跟进这一切吗? 噢,看在上帝的份上,我们的进度一致吗? 这是非常困难去发言 或与这么多人认真地聚会 因为我们全都在思考这么多不同的东西。 每个人都只是关注自己的问题,自己的欲望 自己的追求 你对这个大师或那个理念有所承诺 所以你只是来听听,赞同,反对,然后随便继续你原本的生活。 但如果你是认真的,而生命要求我们必须认真 在世界目前的状态下,不仅是 世人的所作所为 还有去做去为的世人,如果你没有察觉这一切 这就是我们自己 那么我们的生活就会带来腐败,退化。
24:34 So is it possible, for the mind and the heart and therefore the brain, the whole human psychological structure, of which you are, this whole consciousness, to be radically changed? Our consciousness is made up of its content. Right? You are following this? Our consciousness is our beliefs, our desires, our anxieties, fears, pleasures, hypocrisy, vanity, our gods, our beliefs – all that is our consciousness. And we live and function within that consciousness. I am not saying anything very strange. It may sound strange to you because perhaps you are hearing it for the first time, or you have thought a little bit about it, but have not gone into it sufficiently deeply. You can doubt what is being said, but what is being said is what you are. If you doubt what you are, which is your consciousness – and the consciousness is the content of it – if you doubt that, begin to question that, then perhaps the mind can go beyond that consciousness. You understand what I am saying? You are following? We are talking to each other. We are not laying down any law. We are pointing out the law of natural consequences, the law that where there is a cause there is an ending. That is a law. You can doubt it as much as you like, but you can investigate it, go into it, doubt it, enquire, question, and you will find – it is a fact. Not because the speaker is saying, but in itself. Either you listen with such great attention, you capture the meaning and the significance and the consequences immediately, or you want explanations. And when you are dependent on explanations, see what is happening in your own mind, please, listen to this: when you are satisfied with explanations, you are merely satisfied with words, which is mere acceptance of the intellectual movement. Whereas if you begin to examine the nature of your own consciousness, which is the consciousness of humanity – please, understand this thing. 因此,有没有可能思想和心 包括大脑,整个人的心理结构 也就是你 这整个意识,从根本上去改变? 我们的意识是由它的内容所组成的。 对不对?你跟进吗? 我们的意识是我们的信仰,我们的欲望,我们的忧虑 恐惧,快感,虚伪,虚荣 我们的神,我们的信仰 - 所有这些都是我们的意识。 而我们生活和运作在这意识之中。 我不是在说任何非常奇怪的东西。 它可能听起来很奇怪,因为也许 你是第一次听到它 或者你曾经稍微如此想过 但却还没充分地深入探讨过它。 你可以去怀疑我所说的一切 但这些陈述就是你的实相。 如果你怀疑你是什么,也就是你的意识 而意识就是它本身的内容,如果你怀疑这些 就开始去质问它 那么,或许你的心就可以超越那个意识。 你明白我的意思吗? 你在跟进吗?我们是在彼此交谈。 我们不是在制定任何法则。 我们只是指出自然后果的法则 有原因就有结局的法则。 这是一个法则。 你可以随自己的喜好去怀疑它 但你也可以去调查它,去深入它,去怀疑它,去查询 去质疑,而你会发现它是一个事实。 不是因为发言者这样说,而是它本身就是。 或者你去非常专注地聆听 去捕捉其含义和意义 然后得到即时的结果,或者你想要别人解释。 而当你在依赖别人的解释时 看看在你自己的心里到底发生什么,请注意听 当你对解释感到满意 你只是对文字感到满意 这只是对知性运动的接受而已。 但如果你开始去检查 自己意识的本质 也就是人类的意识 请你明白这件事情。
28:58 It is not your consciousness, because when you go abroad to India, Asia, to all the gurus of the world, the priests, you will find they all have the common ground of this consciousness: they suffer, their pretensions, their vanities, the sense of everlastingly climbing the ladder, the ladder of heaven or the ladder of physical success. So this consciousness is the common consciousness of all humanity. You understand, sir? It is so. You may doubt it. Doubt it, question it, go into it. Don’t say, ‘I doubt it’ and just reject it. That would be rather puerile. But if you say, ‘Is this so? Do all human beings... Do all human beings go through similar anxieties, similar pursuits, similar depressions?’ They may vary, but depression is depression, anxiety is anxiety, it may be western anxiety or eastern anxiety, but it is still the sense of being anxious, uncertain, despair – it is common to all mankind. And when you realise that it is common to all mankind, actually realise it, not just as an idea, as a concept, as an image, but when you actually realise inwardly that you are like every other human being, you may have a different face, a different education, different outward culture, you may worship in one form or another, but there it is: inside you like a burning flame. 这不是你的意识 因为当你出国到印度,亚洲 去会见世界上所有的大师,祭司 你会发现他们都具有这种意识的共同点 他们受苦,他们的伪装,他们的虚荣 他们都在不停地攀登那无穷无尽的阶梯 天堂之梯或世间的成功之梯。 因此,这个意识是全人类的共同意识。 你明白吗,先生? 它正是如此。 你可以去怀疑它。 去怀疑它,质疑它,探讨它。 不要说了'我怀疑它’,马上就去排斥它。 这将是相当幼稚的。 但如果你说,'它真的是这样吗?' '全人类是不是... '全人类是不是经历过类似的忧虑 类似的追求,类似的沮丧?' 他们可能略有不同,但沮丧还是沮丧 焦虑还是焦虑,它可能是西方的焦虑或东方的焦虑 但它仍是属于焦虑,不确定,绝望的感觉 这是全人类共同的。 而当你意识到这是全人类共同的 确实地意识到它,而不是仅仅作为一个理念 作为一个概念,一个影像,但是当你确实在内心意识到 你和每个人类是一样的 你可能有不同的面貌,不同的教育 不同的文化背景 你可能以这样或那样的形式去礼拜,但它同样是 在你内心,像一把燃烧的火焰。
32:12 And we are asking whether that content can be totally emptied. If it is not emptied, then you are caught in the old pattern of existence, with its travail, with its cruelties, with its vanities, with its impossible dangers. So if you want to go into it seriously, let’s talk it over together. This is meditation, not sitting cross-legged, which you have acquired from India. I really don’t know why you go to India at all. It is the most dangerous country. I really mean it. It is the most dangerous country for westerners to go there. It is full of romanticism – in your minds – full of something mysterious, full of some miracles taking place there, full of gurus who have – you know, reached the upper ladder – and in their presence you feel: ‘Oh my God, I have achieved something’. You understand all this? Romance, sentimentality, vanity – all that is encouraged. 而我们问,它的内容是否可以完全被排空。 如果它不空 那么你还是被禁锢在生存的旧模式里 忍受其辛酸,残酷 虚荣,令人难以置信的危险。 所以如果你想认真去探讨它 就让我们一起去讨论吧。 这是禅修 不是盘腿坐,那是你们从印度学来得的。 我真的不知道为什么你们需要去印度。 那是个最危险的国家。 我真的是这样想。 它是对去那里拜访的西方人最危险的国家。 它充满浪漫主义 - 在你的心中 充满神秘的东西 充满不断地发生的奇迹 充满大师 - 你知道 - 登上高等阶梯的大师 而在他们面前,你会觉得:'噢,我的上帝,我已经有了成就'。 你明白这一切吗? 浪漫,感伤,虚荣 - 这些东西都被鼓励推动。
34:16 You know, there is a story in India, which is: a boy at the age of fifteen, sixteen... One can’t go to any place where it is quiet any more. It used to be very quiet here at one time, twenty years ago, very quiet – no aeroplanes, no lorries, the road was rough. Now we have become very civilised and therefore very noisy. 你知道在印度有一个故事 就是:一个十五,十六岁的男孩... (飞机噪音) (火车噪音,笑声) 人们已不能找到任何安静的地方了。 这里曾经是非常安静的,二十年前 很安静,没有飞机,没有货车,道路坑坑洼洼。 现在我们已经变得很文明 因此也非常嘈杂。
35:27 So there was a boy who was sixteen or so, and his family was very religious, in the orthodox sense of that word in India. He was a Brahmin boy. And so he said to his father and mother, ‘I am leaving you because I want to find truth. You have talked about it. You have told me about it. Your books tell me about it, but I want to find out’. So he goes from one guru to another, one teacher to another, and he wanders all over India for fifty years. And he doesn’t find it. He puts on different robes, different coloured, not saris but different coloured garments, and at last he says, ‘I haven’t found it, so I better go home’. So he returns. And as he opens the door, there it is! You understand? It has always been there, not because he has wandered all over the earth, but it is there, only we don’t know how to look. Because we, human beings, are the history of mankind – you understand? We are the story of mankind, in us is the history of mankind, the ‘historia’. But we don’t know how to read that book, so we say, ‘Please, tell me all about it’, we ask everybody in this journey of waste, how to read, ‘how to’ – tell me. You understand what I am saying? It is there. That is why self-knowing is very important, not according to any psychotherapist, not according to various philosophers, because then you are looking at yourself with their eyes, and therefore you are never capable of reading your own book, which is the book of humanity. You understand all this, sirs? 所以,从前有一个十六岁左右的男孩 而他的家人都很虔诚 属于对印度的正统宗教的虔诚。 他是个婆罗门男孩。 所以他对他的父母亲说... '我要离开你们,因为我要去找寻真理。 你们曾经谈过它。 你们曾经告诉我关于它。 你们的书也告诉我关于它,但我想去把它找出来'。 于是他从一个大师处转去另一个大师处 从一位老师转去另一位老师 而他在印度各地漂泊流浪,长达五十多年。 他却没有找到它。 他穿上不同的长袍,染上不同的颜色 不是纱丽布,而是不同颜色的服装 最后他说,'我还是没有找到它,所以我最好还是回家去吧'。 于是,他就回家去。 而当他打开门时,它就在眼前! 你明白吗? 它一直就在那里 不是因为他已走遍大地 而是它本来就在那里,只是我们不知道要怎么去找。 因为我们人人都是人类的历史 你明白吗? 我们都是人类的故事 在我们身上,是人类的历史,'史记'。 但我们不知道要如何去阅读这本书 所以我们说,'请告诉我关于它的一切' 在这无谓的旅程中,我们问每一个相遇的人 如何去阅读,'如何' - 请告诉我。 你明白我的意思吗? 它就在那里。 这就是为什么自我认识是非常重要的 不依据任何心理治疗师 不依据各类哲学家 因为如此一来,你就是用他们的眼睛来观看自己了 因此,你将永远都不会有能力去阅读自己本身的书 也就是人类的书。 你明白这一切吗,先生?
38:51 So to know without any shadow of doubt, without any illusion, without any sense of holding back – to know, to observe this whole movement of consciousness, which is oneself. One can do it very easily. You don’t have to move away from where you are, either go North, East, West, South – it is where you are. But where we are is not very pleasant. It is not very encouraging. We are rather bored. But over there, across the river, it is more beautiful, more romantic, more colourful, and therefore we build a bridge over there. When you are there, still you are there – you understand? It is still you – over there. So don’t cross the bridge, if I may point out. 因此,要毫无任何疑问的阴影,毫无任何幻想 毫无任何保留地,去了解 去观察这整个意识的运动,也就是你自己。 我们可以很容易就做到这一点。 你不必离开你的原在地 去北,东,西,或南,它就在你那里。 但是,我们的所在地却是不很令人感到愉快。 不很令人鼓舞。 我们是相当无聊的。 但是在另一边,隔河相望,那边却更加美丽 更浪漫,更加丰富多彩 因此,我们就在那里建立一道桥梁。 当你到达那边,你仍然是在那边 - 你明白吗? 那仍然是你,在那边。 所以,不要过桥 如果我可以指出。
40:30 So it is possible to read oneself, read about oneself, to the last chapter and to the last word. That requires attention, observation, not analysis. Just to observe what is going on, without giving any direction to your observation. This constant alertness to your reactions, to your reflexes, to your vanity, to your aggression – just, you know, play with it. In playing, watching yourself, humorously, with play, you learn far more, you observe far more than striving after it, saying ‘I must know myself’. And it is necessary for the mind, and therefore the brain and the heart, to be free of all illusions before you begin to meditate. Right? That is obvious. If you sit cross-legged, try to concentrate, focus your mind, follow a system, day after day, your mind may be, or still is, in illusion, and therefore your systems, your breathing, your yoga, all this encourages the illusions in which you are caught. You understand all this? 因此,我们是有可能去阅读自己 阅读关于自己直到最后一章,最后一个字。 这需要专注,观察,不是分析。 只是观察 正在发生的事情 对于你的观察,不要提供任何指示。 就只是保持警觉性 对你的反应,你的反射,你的虚荣心 对你的气盛保持警觉性 - 只是,你知道,去配合它。 在配合中,观看自己,幽默地配合 你将学习到更多,观察得更多 比追在其后费尽气力,说什么'我必须了解自己'好得多了。 而我们的思想必须 因此大脑和心也必须 去摆脱所有幻觉,然后才开始禅修。 对不对?这很明显。 如果你盘腿而坐,试图去专注,集中你的心 遵循某个系统,一天过一天 你的心可能是,或仍然是,在幻觉中 因此你的系统,你的呼吸,你的瑜伽 这一切都在推动着你深陷的幻觉假象。 你明白这一切吗?
42:37 Sir, I have seen a man in New Delhi, in India – I used to walk in the gardens there – a man came every day on a bicycle, every day, from his office. He was a poor man. And he used to sit under a tree, putting the cycle against the tree, and sit down very quietly, repeating a certain mantra – you know what a mantra is? I will explain it presently – and mesmerise himself into a state. You understand? And being in that state, you could see his weariness of the office, the family, the daily misery – from his face it began to vanish. You understand? And so the face became very quiet, because he was repeating, mesmerising, relaxing in this mesmerism of his own desire, of his own conclusions, he was completely happy. You understand what I am saying? This used to happen day after day. I was there for several months at one time, and I used to watch this man – every day, Sunday, Saturday. That was his drug. 先生,我曾经在印度的新德里看过一个人 那时我常在那边的花园里散步 有一个人每天骑着自行车 每天从他的办公室到那里去。 他是一个可怜人。 他常坐在一棵树下 把自行车靠在树干上,非常安静地坐下 重复念诵着某个咒语 你知道什么是咒语,我将会解释它 而他把自己催眠至某种状态。 你明白吗? 而在他那种状态中,你可以看到他对办公室的厌倦 对家庭,每天苦恼的厌倦 慢慢从他的脸上消失。你明白吗? 所以,他的脸色变得很安静,因为他不断重复 催眠,在这个催眠中放松 在本身结论的欲望的催眠中放松自己,他完全满意。 你明白我的意思吗? 这件事日复一日地重复着。 有一次我在那里呆了数个月 而我每一天都看到这个人 - 星期天,星期六。 这是他的麻醉药。
44:23 So when one meditates, there must be complete freedom. I know you prefer the other kind of meditation: much easier, utterly meaningless, but it is very comforting. 因此,当我们禅修时,我们必须要有完全的自由。 我知道你们更喜欢另一种冥想的方法 更容易的方法,毫无意义却十分舒服。
44:50 Now, the word ‘mantra’, which people have been given perhaps for $50, $300, or whatever the sum is, and that has become a terrible racket. The word ‘mantra’ means – if you are interested in it – in Sanskrit it means ponder, recollect, observe, watch, in not becoming. You understand? And also, ‘tra’ and all that – I won’t go into the details – it means: if there is any self-centred activity, such action is destructive. That is the meaning of the whole word, ‘mantra’. In other words, I was just going to say, ‘Let’s go to the Himalayas!’ There, too, there are beggars. No. Much better stay here and face the noise! Sorry. 现在,'咒语'这个词 人们获得它或许只需付50美元,300美元 或任何款项 这已经成为一种可怕的买卖。 '咒语'这个词是指 - 如果你有兴趣 在梵文,它是指 思量,回想,观察,观看,而不转变。 你明白吗? 而且'咒'和所有一切 - 我不会去详谈 它表示如果有任何以自我为中心的活动 这样的行动是具破坏性的。 这是'咒语'整个词的含义。 换句话说... (火车声) 我正要说,'让我们去喜马拉雅山吧! (众笑) 那里也有许多乞丐(笑)。 不,还是在这里,面对噪音比较好! 抱歉。 (众笑)
46:53 So we are saying: the mind must be completely free of all illusion, having no image, having no motive – you understand? No image, no motive, no illusion. An illusion, motive, direction comes with desire, desire to find heaven, desire to find illumination, desire to achieve, desire to have experiences. You understand? I do not know why human beings want experiences. You understand my question? You have experiences of every kind now: terror, sex, violence, oppression, dictatorship, whether it is Right or Left or Centre, whether it is the Communist, Fascist, or the religious – they are all the same. Right? I know you won’t accept all this. Doubt it, what I am saying. They are all the same. They all want to shape your mind. They all want to coerce you into a certain pattern of thinking. And if you refuse, either the concentration camp, shot, or you are put in a psychiatric ward. This is what is happening. 所以我们说:我们的心必须完全摆脱所有的幻觉 没有影像 没有动机 你明白吗? 没有影像,没有动机,没有幻觉。 一个幻觉,动机,方向会带来欲望 寻找天堂的欲望,寻求光明的欲望 去成就的欲望,去经验的欲望。 你明白吗? 我不知道为什么人类需要经验。 你明白我的问题吗? 你现在有各种各样的经历: 恐怖,色情,暴力,压迫,独裁 无论是左派,右派或中间派 无论是共产党 法西斯,或宗教,他们都是一样的。 对不对? 我知道你不会接受这一切。 去怀疑它,我所说的。他们都是一样的。 他们都要塑造你的心。 他们都要强迫你接受一个特定的思维模式。 如果你拒绝 就是集中营,枪毙 或者把你放入神精病院。 这是正在发生的事情。
49:12 So the mind must be totally and completely free. And till that comes about, don’t meditate. You understand what I am saying? Because it is meaningless. I remember – I am sorry, I mustn’t go into anecdotes, must I? Just this one. We were watching from a window in Benares a beggar dressed in saffron robes – that is the sannyaai robes in India; I don’t know if you understand the word ‘sannyasa’, what that means. I’ll tell you presently what it means. He was dressed like that, and he was a poor ordinary man, not very learned, from his looks, from his talk. He sat under a tree and began to chant, sing, shout. The passers-by looked at him and went away. Within a week – I assure you I am not exaggerating – within a week he had garlands round his head, people stood round him saluting him, giving him food, almost bending their knees in saying, ‘What a great man you are’. You understand? Within a week this took place. And we are so gullible. Right? 所以我们的心要完全,彻底的自由。 而还没有达到那样以前,不要禅修。 你明白我在说什么吗? 因为那将是毫无意义的。 我记得 - 我很抱歉,我不应该讲故事,我应该吗? 就这一个。 (众笑) 当时在贝拿勒斯,我们正往窗外观看 一个穿着藏红色长袍的乞丐 那是印度弃绝者的长袍... 我不知道你是否了解‘弃绝’这个词,是什么意思。 我会告诉你它是什么意思。 他穿成这样,而他是一个贫穷的普通人 从他的长相,从他的谈吐,看来他不是很有学问。 他坐在树下,开始颂经,唱歌,喊叫。 路人看看他,然后走开。 一周之内 - 我向你保证我不是夸张 在一个周内,已有花环围绕他头部 人们围着他,向他敬礼 给他食物吃 几乎要弯曲他们的膝盖...而说,'你真是一个伟大的人'。 你明白吗?在一个星期内,这些都发生了。 而我们就是如此容易上当。 对不对?
51:24 So we are saying: a mind that is free from all this, then comes meditation. Now, what is meditation? Unfortunately, the eastern people, or eastern so-called gurus, have brought this word to this western world, with all their nonsense behind it, with their systems: the Tibetan form of meditation, the Zen form of meditation, the Buddhist form of meditation, the Hindu form of meditation. Right? You are following all this? Right? And we, rather gullible, and wanting to get somewhere because we are bored with our own lives, so we say, ‘All right, tell me how to meditate’. And they are too eager to tell you, at a certain price, or without price. So if you shun all that, all systems – systems means practising, day after day, which means your mind becomes mechanical. When you are committed to a system, your mind then is already corrupt. Again, doubt it, question it, find out the truth of it. 因此,我们说:摆脱了所有这一切的心 就能进入禅道。 现在,什么是禅? 不幸的是,东方人 或东方的所谓大师们把这个词带来 这个西方世界 却在它的背后连带着他们的胡扯 与他们的系统:西藏形式的禅修 禅宗形式的禅修 佛教形式的禅修,印度教形式的禅修。 对不对? 你在跟进这一切吗?对不对? 而我们,相当轻信他人,并且渴望能修达某个阶段 因为我们已经对自己的生活厌倦 所以我们说,'好吧,告诉我如何禅修'。 而他们那么热切要告诉你 需要一定的费用,或免费。 因此,如果你避开所有的 所有的系统 - 系统是指去练习 日复一日的练习,这意味着你的头脑会变得呆板。 当你致力于某个系统时,你的心就已经腐败。 同样,去怀疑它,质问它,找出它的真相。
53:37 So there must be freedom from all this. Now, where there is freedom, what takes place? Are you following all this? Where there is freedom from all commitment, from all authority, from all illusions, images, conclusions, what is the state of your mind? You understand what I am saying? Find out, sir, don’t look at me! Find out! It is your daily life. You see, we are so afraid to be nothing. Our culture, our education, everything says, ‘Be something’, either in the business world or in the religious world, or in the entertainment world, on the football field – ‘Be something’. And when consciousness, with all its content, is empty – if that is possible – doubt that, that is, yourself, doubt your vanity, why you are vain, why you are stuck in a belief, holding on to some past experience, past remembrances, and when the mind is free, which is, when all your travail is not – you understand? – what is there? You are following all this? Oh, sir, come on, sirs! You understand, sir? When you give up smoking, without going off into some other form of smoking, when you end smoking, or when you end a certain pleasurable habit, when you end attachment, what is there? You understand my question? Is that what we are afraid of? I am attached to you. If I end it, what have I? So if I end my vanity, my conclusion, my belief, my gods, my, you know, longing, longing, longing, if I end all that, what happens? You are following all this? Do it, please. End your particular attachment, now, don’t bother about your wife and your husband, your girl. Say, ‘All right, for the moment at least I’ll be free of attachment’. What takes place there, in the mind? There is a certain freedom, isn’t there? And a sense of nothingness. Right? 因此,必须拥有摆脱这一切的自由。 现在,哪里有自由 就会有什么? 你跟进这一切吗? 哪里有摆脱所有承诺的自由 摆脱所有权威,所有幻觉,影像,结论 什么是你的精神状态? 你明白我的意思吗? 去找出来,先生,不要看着我!去找出来! 这是你每天的生活。 你看,我们都如此害怕什么也不是。 我们的文化,我们的教育,一切都在说,'必须要有所为' 无论是在企业界还是宗教界 或在娱乐界,在足球场上, - '要有所为'。 而当意识与它所有的内容是空时 如果这有可能的话 - 去怀疑,那就是你自己 去怀疑你的虚荣心 为什么你总是徒劳,为什么你总是被信念所困 死抱着某些过去的经验,过去的回忆 而当你的心自由时,那就是 当你所有的辛苦没有时 - 你明白吗? - 还会有什么? 你在跟进这一切吗? 哦,先生,拜托,先生们! 你明白吗,先生? 当你放弃吸烟 没有转去抽吸其他的麻醉品 当你结束吸烟,或当你结束某个爽快的习惯 当你结束执着,还会有什么? 你明白我的问题吗? 那就是我们所担心的吗? 我执着你。 如果我结束这一切,我还有什么? 所以,如果我结束我的虚荣心,我的结论,我的信仰,我的神,我的 你知道,渴望,渴望,渴望,如果我结束那一切,到底会发生什么? 你在跟进这一切吗? 去实践,拜托。 现在就去结束你的执着 不要理会你的妻子和你的丈夫,你的女孩。 去说,'很好,至少这个时刻我将会摆脱执着' 在你心中会发生什么? 你心中会有一定的自由,不是吗? 和一种虚无感。 对不对?
58:00 Now. Not a thing. Nothingness means not a thing. Thing means – the word ‘thing’ comes from ‘res’, I won’t go into all that – which is: thought which has put there. You understand? Thing is the movement of thought. Thought is a material process – we have been into all that. A material process, because thought is the response of memory, memory which is experience, knowledge. This experience, knowledge, memory is stored in the cells of the brain. And therefore it is matter. It is a process of matter. We won’t go into matter for the moment. I have discussed this question with the scientists, so I won’t enter into that for the moment. So when there is not a thing – you understand? – it means the movement of thought has come to an end. Vous avez compris? That is, sir, if you can do it now, sitting here, in this tent, knowing that you are attached, whether to a guru, or whatever you are attached to, end it. Not say, ‘Well, why should I end it?’ I have explained all that. You should end it because the consequences of attachment are fear, anxiety, jealousy, hatred, being wounded psychologically, building a wall round yourself, isolating yourself, and so on, so on, so on. That is a fact. You don’t have to doubt it. Don’t take time to doubt it. It is not worth it. It is there. And if you end it, which means, thought has no other movement than ending itself. 现在。空无一物。 虚无是指空无一物。 ‘物’是指 - '物'这个词源自'质' 我不去详谈这些 - 它是,念头所安置的... 你明白吗? 物是念头的运动。 念头是一种物质的过程 - 我们已经探讨过这一切。 物质过程 因为念头是记忆的反应 记忆就是经验,知识。 这些经验,知识,记忆被存储在大脑的细胞里。 因此,它是物质。这是一个物质的过程。 我们现阶段不会去讨论物质 我曾经与科学家讨论过这个问题 所以现在我不会进入这个课题。 因此,当我们空物一物时 - 你明白吗? 这意味着念头的运动已经停止。 你明白吗? 也就是说,先生,如果你现在能做到,坐在这个帐篷这里 知道你有执着 不管是执着上师,或执着任何东西,去终结它。 不要说,'好吧,我为什么要终结束它呢?' 我已经解释了这一切。 你应该结束它,因为执着的后果是恐惧 焦虑,嫉妒,仇恨,心理受伤 自建围墙,孤立自己 等等,等等,等等。这是事实。 你不必去怀疑。不要花时间去怀疑。 这是不值得的。它确实是这样。 而如果你去结束它 这表示,念头没有其他运动,只有结束本身的运动。
1:00:41 Now, the ending of thought is the ending of time. Right? Because thought is a movement. Time is a movement – from here to there, physically – right? It takes time to go from here to your house, or chalet, to your tent, or whatever it is. To cover that distance needs time. And thought is a movement. Any movement is capable of being measured. Right? Come on, sirs! Right? So what is measured, that which can be measured is the thing created by thought and by time. Now, look: it takes one from here to go to one’s home, perhaps two hours, ten minutes, and so on, which can be measured. Right? By the distance, mileage, time. And also thought can be measured. Right? Have you noticed that? It can be measured. Right? Need I explain it? Oh, for God’s sake, come on, sir, explain it to yourself, I don’t have to explain! You all look so dazed. 现在: 念头的结束是时间的结束。 对不对? 因为念头是一种运动。 时间是一种运动 - 从这里走到那里 - 对不对? 我们需要时间,从这里走到你的房子,或小屋 你的帐篷,或别的什么地方。 去走过这段距离,需要时间。 而念头是一种运动。 任何运动都是可以被测量的。 对不对? 拜托,各位! 对不对? 因此,那个被衡量的 那个能被测量的 是由念头和时间所创造出来的东西。 现在看:我们从这里回到自己的家 也许需要两小时,十分钟,等等,这是可以衡量的。 对不对? 用距离,里程,时间去衡量。 而念头也可以被衡量。 对不对? 你有没有注意到这个?它可以被衡量。 对不对?需要我去解释一下吗? 噢,看在上帝的份上,拜托,先生 请给自己解释,我不须要去解释! 你们看起来都很茫然。
1:02:36 Look, sir: you can measure thought when you are saying, ‘I will become’. Right? ‘I will become’ – which is, I am not what I should be, but I will become that. That is projected by thought. The ideal, whatever it is, projected by thought. So, to arrive at that is the movement of thought from ‘what is’ to ‘what should be’. That is the measure. Now, the word ‘meditation’ means also not only to ponder, to think over, to enquire profoundly, but also it has a meaning from Sanskrit too, ‘to measure’ – you understand what I am saying? To measure. And in meditation measurement must come to an end – you understand? Oh, for God’s sake! Which means, no measurement, which is comparison – you understand? ‘I was, before I came to you, your guru’. ‘You have given me the system and I am practising. Where am I today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow?’ You follow? How childish it all is! 看,先生:你可以衡量念头 当你说,'我将成为'。对不对? '我将成为' - 就是 我还不是我应有的样子,但我将会变成那样。 这是念头投射出来的。 我们的理想,不管是什么,都是念头投射出来的。 因此,要达到这样 是从'如是'到'应该是'的念头运动。 这就是它的衡量。 现在,'禅修'这个词的意思不仅是去思量 去考虑,去深入咨询 而且它也有一个源自梵文的意思,是'去衡量' 你明白我的意思吗? 去衡量。 而在禅修中,衡量是必须结束的 - 你明白吗? 哦,看在上帝分上! 这表示,没有衡量,也就是比较 你明白吗? '我见到你之前我是...' - 你的大师... '你给我一套系统而我去练习。 今天我在哪里,明天呢,后天呢?' (笑)你跟进吗?这一切是多么幼稚呀!
1:04:33 So measurement, which means comparison, inwardly comparing oneself with the past or with the future, with an example – no measurement, you see? – no illusion, no image, and the absolute cessation of will. You follow what strict demand it requires to meditate? You understand what I am saying? It isn’t something so easy you sit like that and go off into some kind of nonsense. This demands tremendous attention, great depth of enquiry in yourself, into yourself. Therefore you have that tremendous sense of order, which means no conflict whatsoever. 因此,衡量,意味着比较 在内心把自己与过去和未来相比 与一个例子相比 - 没有衡量,你看 没有幻觉,没有影像和意志的绝对终结。 你明白到禅修的严格要求了吗? 你明白我的意思吗? 它不是那么容易的东西,你这样子坐着 然后进入某种荒谬的状态。 这可是要求极大的专注 深入查询自己,探讨自己。 因此你将会有一种强大秩序感 那表示没有任何冲突。
1:06:00 Then if you have come to that – and I hope some of you will and you must – then we can go into what is meditation. You understand, sirs? That is, when there is freedom and therefore the absence of all that, there is love, which is not pleasure, which is not desire. We went into that the other day. Without that love, without that compassion, and because there is freedom there is intelligence, without that don’t meditate. Then you are playing with something dangerous which is not worth it. You understand all this? 那么,如果你已经达至此阶段 我希望你们有些人已达到而你们必须达到 这样我们就可以进入什么是禅修了。 你明白吗,先生? 也就是说,当我们有了自由,因此 就没有那一切,就有爱 而不是快感,而不是欲望。 我们那天曾经讨论过这个。 没有了爱,就没有慈悲 而因为有自由,就有智慧 没有这些,就不要禅修。 不然你就是在玩弄危险的东西,那是不值得的。 你明白这一切吗?
1:07:19 I used to know a man – this is not an anecdote – I used to know a man, I was younger then, he was seventy-five. White beard, long hair, he was a real sannyasi. I will explain what that word means. And he said to me one day after hearing some of the talks, he came to see the speaker and he said, ‘I left home fifty years ago. I was a judge. One morning I realised that I was passing out judgement on people: on robbers, murderers, criminals, deceptive businessmen’ – you know all that. And he woke up one morning and he said, ‘What am I passing judgement about? I don’t know what truth is. So I cannot pass judgement’. So he called his family and said, ‘I am retiring. You can have all my money and all the rest of it. I am going off by myself, into some corner of the earth, and meditate to find out what truth is’. After 25 years and more, he said, ‘I have come to find out to you and I realise that I have been mesmerising myself’ – you understand, sir? At the age of 75 to say that he has been mesmerising himself, after fifty years – you understand what strength that requires? And so we talked. 我曾经认识一个人 这不是一个小故事 我曾经认识一个人,那时我比较年轻,他已七十五岁了。 白胡子,长头发,他是一个真正的托钵僧。 我会解释这个词是什么意思。 在听过我几次的座谈之后,他对我说 他前来见发言者,然后他说... '我在五十年前离开家? '我曾是一个法官? '一天早晨,我意识到,我对别人下判: 对强盗,杀人犯,罪犯,诈骗的商人下判 你知道那一切'。 而在一天早上他醒过来,他说... '我在下判什么呢?' '我不知道什么是真理。所以我不能去下判'。 于是他召集他的家人说,'我要退休了? '你们可以拥有我所有的钱财和所有的一切? 我要自己一个人离开,到世界某个角落去 去禅修,去找出什么是真理'。 经过多于二十五年后,他说... '我来找出给你而我意识到 我一直都在催眠我自己' - 你明白吗,先生? 在七十五岁时说他一直在催眠自己 五十多年后 - 你知道需要多大力量吗! 因此,我们继续交谈。
1:09:26 And I am saying the same thing, we are saying the same thing, don’t have any form of desire, will, ideals, illusions, or images, and so on. The mind must be totally free. Then comes love which is imperishable, incorruptible. Because love is not attachment – you understand? Then you can begin to meditate. Then meditation is the most simplest form of observation. Pure, unadulterated observation, which is: the mind can only observe when it is completely still. Right? If you listen to that noise – the train passing by – with complete silence, do it now as we are talking – that noise has no... it doesn’t enter into the quality of silence. I wonder if you get it. Sirs, you haven’t done any of these things, so it is just words, theories. 而我说的是同样的东西 我们说的是同样的东西,没有任何形式的欲望,意志 理想,幻想或影像,等等。 我们的心必须完全自由。 然后爱就会生起 这是不朽的,永不腐败。 因为爱不是执着 - 你明白吗? 那么你就可以开始禅修。 那么禅修就是形式最简单的观察。 无染,纯正的观察 那就是:心只能在完全静止时观察。 对不对? (火车声) 如果你聆听那个噪音 火车经过,完全的沉默地聆听 当我们讲说时马上就做 - 那个声音就会没有 它就没有进入我们沉默的质量中。 我不知道你有没有了解它。 各位,你们没有做过任何这些东西,所以它只是文字,理论。
1:11:24 So to observe so purely, the mind, the body, the whole sense of organism and the structure of the psyche must be completely still, not controlled. The moment you control, there is conflict. Right? So obvious all these things are! So conflict must end. And therefore, which means – please, this is a dangerous statement to make, but I will make it, but see the nature of it – no control whatsoever. Personally, if I may for a second or two talk about the speaker, he has never controlled. Don’t look at me wide-eyed. You may think I am crazy. Probably I am. But see the importance: when there is control, there are two entities: the one who is controlling, controlling that which he himself has created. Vous avez compris, sir? You have understood? Hai capito? That is, I control my desire: controlling desire means one who is controlling the thing called desire, and therefore there is a division between the controller and the controlled. Right? So there must be conflict where there is a division. You say, ‘Today I lost my control, but tomorrow it will be better, you will see to it. I exercise my will, my suppression, – everything’. 因此,去无染地观察,心,身体 整体生物的意识和心灵的结构 必须完全静止,没有受到控制。 一旦你去控制,就会有冲突。 对不对? 所有这些都那么的明显! 因此,冲突必须结束。 因此,这意味着 拜托,这是一个危险的声明,但我还是会把它提出来 但请看它的本质 - 没有任何控制。 就个人而言,我是否可以用一两分钟谈谈关于发言者 他从来没有控制。 不要睁大眼睛看我。 你可能认为我疯了。也许我是。 但请看其重要性: 当有控制时,就会有两个实体 一个控制者 控制着他本人创建的东西。 你明白吗,先生? 你懂了吗?你明白吗? 也就是说,我控制自己的欲望: 欲望的控制表示 有一个人在控制一样叫做欲望的东西 因此就有了分割 控制者和所控制。对不对? 所以哪里有分割,那里就必定有冲突。 你说,'今天我失去控制,但明天会更好' 你会去注意它。 '我会行使我的意志,我的抑制,我的一切?
1:13:54 So to live without any sense of conflict. Therefore no sense of control. Sir, just see the beauty of it, for God’s sake! Do it, sirs. Then the mind is absolutely still. The variety of stillnesses vary. When the train has passed by, there is a certain silence. There is silence when thought says, ‘I must be quiet’. That is another form of silence. There is silence between two noises – after all, music is the silence between two notes. Right? Right? And there is the silence of the forest: in the forest when there is some dangerous animal moving, a tiger and so on, the whole forest becomes paralysed and silent. Have you ever been in a forest like that? No, you people don’t know this. I was chasing a tiger once, literally. I won’t go into that, forget it! 因此,要毫无任何冲突地生活。 所以,就要没有任何控制感。 先生,去看它的美,看在上帝分上! 去实践,各位。 那么,心就会如如不动。 有各种不同的静止。 当火车通过后,有一种沉默。 我们也有沉默,当念头说,'我必须要安静'。 这是另一种形式的沉默。 在两个音符之间有一段沉默 其实,所有的音乐都是两个音符之间的沉默。 对不对?对不对? 而且也有森林的沉默: 在森林里,当有一些危险的动物在移动时 老虎,等等,整个森林会变成瘫痪,静默。 你曾经去过这样的森林吗? 不,你们这些人不知道这一点。 我曾经追过一只老虎 字字不假。 我不会去谈这个,算了吧! (众笑)
1:15:44 So this silence is not brought about by thought. Right? It is absolute silence, not relative. And if the mind has come to that point, then is there anything in life sacred? I am asking. I am not talking about the silence. I am asking: is there anything sacred in our life, holy? Not created by thought – you understand? The Bible and all the things in the Bible – the images, the crosses, the incense, the altar, the wafer – all put together by thought. I hope there are no priests here! And is that sacred? Question that, doubt it, find out, because man has always tried to find something beyond time and thought. And enquiring into it he gets caught – you understand? There are too many traps and temptations. One goes out wanting to find out the beauty of life, or the sacredness of life, if there is something so absolute, love that is incorruptible – one asks. And then some person comes along and says, ‘Follow this. You will find it’, and I am caught in it. And I get disillusioned, write about it, tear the picture – you follow? – and go off to something else. 因此,这沉默不是念头带来的。 对不对? 它是绝对的沉默,不是相对的。 而如果心已经到达这一点 那么人生中有没有什么是神圣的? 我在问。 我不是在谈论沉默。 我在问:在我们的生活中,有什么是神圣的,圣洁的? 不是念头所创造的 - 你明白吗? 圣经 以及圣经中的所有的东西 图像,十字架,香,祭坛,圣饼 全部都是由念头组合起来的。 我希望没有牧师在这里! 而那是神圣的吗? 去质问它,怀疑它,去把它找出来 因为人总是设法 去找出超越时间和念头的东西。 并在深入探讨时被它抓住 - 你懂吗? 那里有太多的陷阱和诱惑。 我们都向外去寻找生活的美好 或生命的神圣,如果有这样绝对的东西 永不腐败的爱,我们问。 然后有一些人前来,说... ‘照这样做。你会发现它’,而我却被困其中。 而我也从幻觉中醒悟过来,把它写出来,破除假象 你跟进吗? - 然后离它而去别处。
1:18:27 So I am saying, asking you: is there anything sacred at all, holy? not in the temples, churches – that is not holy, that is all put together by thought, obviously. And thought is not holy. My God, I wish it were, then we would behave scrupulously. 所以我说,我问你: 到底有没有什么神圣之物,圣洁之物? 不是在寺庙里,教堂里,那些不是神圣的 那些都是念头组合起来的,很明显。 而念头是不圣洁的。 我的天,我却希望它是,那么我们的行为就会很严谨了。
1:18:58 So we are asking whether the mind which is free from all this and therefore has this immense quality of compassion, which goes with intelligence, is there anything sacred? Now if the speaker says there is, then there is not. Have you understood this? You see? Good, I am glad some of you see this at least. When the speaker says there is, then that very word, the very essence of that great love and beauty and truth is not. So meditation, which is the absolute silence of the mind, heart and all that, being completely free, you will find out for yourself... such freedom will disclose through your pure observation, whether there is that which is immortal, deathless, beyond all time and space. You will find out. It is there for a mind that is capable to come to it. Terminato. Finished. 因此,我们问,当我们的心摆脱了 所有这一切,因而拥有了慈悲的巨大质量 也连带着智慧,那时到底会不会有什么神圣之物呢? 现在,如果发言者说有,那么就是没有。 你明白了吗? 你看到了吗? 很好,我很高兴看到至少你们有些人看到了。 当发言者说‘有’ 那么那个字本身 那个大爱,美和真理的本质就不是了。 因此禅修 也就是脑,心完全进入寂静,而一切都 完全自由自在 你将会自己发现 这样的自由会透过你无染的观察显现出来 到底有没有不朽的 不死的,超越所有时空之物。 你将会找到答案。 如果心有能力找到它,它就在那里。 终结。完毕。