克里希那穆提 - 转变意识的学习

Krishnamurti Subtitles

SA81T2 - 转变意识的学习
第二次公开演讲
瑞士，萨能
1981年7月14日

0:25	Krishnamurti: Shall we continue where we left off yesterday? The day before, sorry.	克里希那穆提：我们接着昨天讲好吗？前天，抱歉。
0:44	We were saying, weren't we, that human consciousness is similar to all human beings. Our consciousness, whether we live in the East or West, is made up of many layers of fears, anxieties, pleasures, sorrow, beliefs, every form of faith, and perhaps in the content of that consciousness there is also love, compassion, and from that compassion a totally different kind of intelligence. And there is always this fear of ending, which is death. And also human beings throughout the world from time immemorial have sought, have tried to find out if there is something sacred beyond all thought, something that is incorruptible, timeless and so on. And also we were saying yesterday, there is not only group consciousness like the business people with their consciousness, the scientists with theirs and the carpenter with his and so on, All these layers or content of consciousness are the product of thought. Thought has created extraordinary things technologically, from the extraordinary computers to communication, to robots and so on, surgery, medicine, if you like that kind of medicine. And also thought has invented religions. Please don't be angry or impatient or irritated when we point out certain things, when we say all the religious organisations throughout the world are put together, invented, brought together by thought. And thought has invented the computer. We must understand the complexity and the future of the computer. The computer is going to outstrip man in his thought. The computer is going to change the structure of society, the structure of government, the structure of society. This is not some fantastic conclusion of the speaker or some fantasy, this is actually going on now, of which we are not aware. The computer can learn, invent, and has a mechanical intelligence. The computer is going to make employment of human beings practically unnecessary. Perhaps human beings may have to work a couple of hours a day.	我们是不是说到所有人类的意识都是相似的。无论生活在东方还是西方，我们的意识都是由很多层面的恐惧、焦虑、快乐、悲伤、信念和各种形式的信仰构成的。或许在那个意识当中，也会有爱、有慈悲，从那份慈悲当中会产生一种完全不同的智慧。并且总是存在对于终结，也就是死亡的恐惧。自远古以来，全世界的人类都试图发现是否存在某种神圣的、超越思想的事物，是否存在某种不会衰朽的、永恒的事物。我们昨天也讲到，不仅有各种各样的团体意识，像商人有商人的意识，科学家有科学家的意识，木匠有木匠的意识等等，所有这些意识的层次或内容都是思想的产物。思想在技术方面制造了非凡的事物，从令人惊奇的计算机，到电信，到机器人，外科手术和医药等等，如果你喜欢那种医药的话。思想也发明了那些宗教。在我们指出某些问题的时候，在我们说全世界所有的宗教组织都是由思想发明和捏合起来的时候，请不要生气，不耐烦或者恼怒。思想发明了计算机。我们必须了解计算机的复杂性和未来发展趋势。计算机将在思想方面超过人类。将改变社会结构，改变政府结构，社会结构。这不是讲者的某种不切实际的臆断，或幻想，这是实际正在发生的事情，而我们没有意识到。计算机能够学习，能够发明，并拥有机械的智力。计算机将会使人类几乎没有必要工作。也许每天只需工作两个小时就可以了。
6:17	Please, these are all facts that are coming. You may not like it, you may revolt against it, but it is coming. And thought has invented it, and human thought is limited, but the mechanical intelligence of the computer is going to outstrip man. So what is a human being then? You are following all this? These are facts, not some specialised conclusion of the speaker. As we pointed out the day before yesterday, we have talked to several computer experts and all the rest of it. It is going to revolutionise totally our lives.	请注意，这些都是正在发生的事情。你可能不喜欢这样，你可能会抵触计算机，但是这正在成为现实。思想发明了计算机，但是人类的思想是有限的，而计算机的机械智力将超越人的智力。那个时候，人是什么呢？这些你们都明白吗？这些都是事实，不是讲者的什么专业性结论。正如我们前天指出的，我们跟几位计算机等方面的专家谈过。计算机将颠覆我们的生活。
7:35	And when you consider what its capacity is, then we have to ask ourselves what is a human being to do? It is going to take over all the activities of the brain most of it. And what happens to the brain then? You understand? Please follow this a little bit. They are concerned about a human being whose occupation is taken over by the computer, by the robot and so on, then what becomes of the human? We are put together – rather – we have been programmed biologically, intellectually, emotionally, psychologically, through a million years and we repeat over and over again the same pattern. As we pointed out the other day, we have stopped learning.	考虑到计算机所具有的能力，我们不得不问自己，一个人该做什么？计算机将接管大脑的大部分活动。然后大脑会怎么样呢？你明白吗？请稍微跟上一点。那些专家为人感到担忧，当这个人的工作被计算机、机器人等等接管，那时，人会怎样呢？我们被拼凑起来 ——确切地说—— 一百万年来，我们一直在生物、智力、情感、心理方面被程序所设定，并且我们反反复复地重复同一个模式。正如我们那天指出的，我们已经停止学习了。
9:26	We will go into that question of what is learning. Whether the human brain which has been programmed for so many centuries, whether it is capable of learning and immediately transforming itself into a totally different dimension. If we are not capable of that, the computer – which is much more capable, more rapid, more accurate – is going to take over the activities of the brain. See the importance of this, please. This is not something casual. This is very, very serious. Desperately serious. The computer can invent a new religion. It can be programmed by an expert Hindu scholar, by the Catholic, by the Protestant, by the Muslim, and it will turn out a marvellous structure of a new religion. And we, if we are not at all aware of what is happening, we will follow that new programmed structure which has been put forward by the computer. See the seriousness of all this, please.	我们必须探究这个问题：什么是学习？人类的这个大脑在那么多世纪里一直被程序所设定，它是否有能力学习，并立即转化自身，进入完全不同的维度。如果我们没有那样的能力，计算机 ——它能力更强、速度更快、准确程度更高—— 将会接管大脑的活动。请看看这个问题的严重性。这不是可以等闲视之的事情。这个问题非常非常严重。极其严重。计算机能够发明一种新的宗教。这个宗教可以由一位专业的印度教学者，或者由一位天主教、新教或伊斯兰教学者来预设程序，这个新宗教将展现一个不可思议的体系！而我们，如果我们根本没意识到正在发生什么，那么我们就会遵循那个计算机推出的重新设定的体系。请看到这一切的严重性。
11:18	So our consciousness has been programmed for thousands and thousands of years. And we have been conditioned, programmed, wired – if you like to put it that way – to think as individuals, to think as separate entities struggling, struggling, conflict, from the moment you are born till you die. We are programmed to that. We have accepted that. We have never challenged, we have never asked if it is possible to live a life totally, absolutely without conflict. We have never asked it and therefore we never learn about it. We repeat, it is part of our existence to be in conflict, nature is in conflict, that is our argument, and progress is through conflict. That is what we have been programmed with for millions of years. And the religious organisations throughout the world have maintained this individual salvation. And we are questioning very seriously whether there is an individual consciousness. Whether you, as a human being, have a separate consciousness from the rest of mankind. You have to answer this, not just play with it.	所以，几千年来，我们的意识一直受程序设定。我们一直受到这种制约和设定，受到提线操纵——如果你喜欢这么说的话—— 把自己当作个体去思考，把自己当作单独的存在去思考，从生到死，一直都在不断地挣扎着、冲突着。我们受到了那种设定。我们接受了那个模式。我们从未质疑过，从未询问过，有没有可能过一种完全没有任何冲突的生活。我们从未询问过这个问题，因而，也永远不会了解这个问题。我们反复地讲，冲突是我们生活的一部分 ——自然界就有冲突，那是我们的理由—— 所以，要通过冲突来取得进步。这就是几百万年来我们被编入的程序。全世界的宗教组织都一直维护着这个个体获得拯救的信念。我们在非常严肃地质疑，是否存在个体的意识。作为一个人，你是否拥有独立于其他人的意识。你必须回答这个问题，不要只是玩玩而已。
13:50	My consciousness and yours, if we have been brought up, programmed, conditioned to the individual, then my consciousness is all the activities of thought. Fear is thought, we will go into that presently. Pursuit of pleasure is the movement of thought. And the suffering, the anxiety, the uncertainty, the deep regrets, wounds, the burden of centuries of sorrow, is part of thought. Thought is responsible for all this. What we call love has become sensual pleasure, something to be desired and so on.	我的意识和你的意识如果我们接受的培养、程序设定和训练，让我们相信自己是一个个体，那么我的意识就是思想的全部活动。恐惧是思想，我们很快就会谈到这个。追求快乐是思想的活动。痛苦、焦虑、不确定、深深的惆怅、创伤、多少世纪悲伤的重负，都是思想的组成部分。思想要为这一切负责。我们所谓的爱已经变成了感官愉悦，变成了欲求得到的什么东西，如此等等。
15:31	So as we ended up last time we met here, we went somewhat briefly into the whole movement and the nature of thought. Please, as we said, and we will repeat it over and over again till we are quite sure of it, that we are thinking together. The speaker is not telling you what to think. He is not doing propaganda. This is a horrible thing, propaganda. He is not telling you how to act, what to think, what to believe and so on. But together we are investigating the catastrophe that is taking place in the world outside of us, the utter ruthlessness that is taking place, violence, etc. And also inwardly in each human being, the extraordinary conflict that is going on. Together we are examining, taking the journey together, perhaps hand in hand. So it is not, if one may point out, that you are merely listening to some ideas, to some conclusions, we are not talking about conclusions, beliefs, ideas. We are together looking at this world that human beings have produced, for which all of us are responsible. So, first we must be clear in our understanding, at whatever level that understanding be, whether it is intellectual understanding which is merely verbal or the understanding of the deep significance and that understanding acts. We have come to a point where we have to make a decision, not by the exercise of will but the decision that naturally will take place when we begin to understand the whole nature and the structure of the world outside of us and inside. That perception will bring about a decision, action. Right?	上次我们在这里快结束的时候，简要地谈了整个思想的运动和思想的性质。请注意，我们说过，我们将反复去讲，直到我们非常明确，我们是在共同思考。讲者不是在告诉你们该思考什么。他不是在做宣传。宣传这种事情非常令人反感。他不是在告诉你们应该怎样行动，应该思考什么，相信什么，等等。而是我们一起来审视周围世界正在发生的灾难，极端的暴行和暴力事件等等。我们也要审视每个人的内心正在发生的惊人的冲突。我们是在齐心协力进行调查，共同踏上这段旅程——或许还是手挽着手。如果可以指出的话，不是说你只听到一些想法或结论，我们不是在谈论想法、结论或信仰。我们是在观察这个人类创造的世界，我们都对它负有责任。所以，我们首先必须清楚地了解—— 无论是在什么层面上—— 智力上的了解，只会停留在字面；而对于深刻意义的了解，则会带来行动。我们已经到了一个重要关头，必须做出决断，不是用意志做出决断，而是当我们开始了解内在和外在世界的全部本质与结构的时候，我们自然而然就会做出决断。那种认识就会带来决断和行动。对吗？
19:10	A hot morning.	上午好热。
19:20	So first let us examine together what thought is. Though the speaker has repeated several times what thought is, but each time when we talk about it you discover something new. Unless you do it together, not merely listen to what the speaker is saying, if you are doing it together then you will discover for yourself the truth and the significance and the limitation of thought.	那么，首先，我们一起来调查一下思想是什么。尽管讲者反复讲过好几次思想是什么，但是我们每次讲这个，你都会发现些新的东西。你必须一起来调查，而不只是听讲者说，如果你和我们一起来调查，那么你就会亲自发现思想的真相，发现思想的意义和局限。
20:13	Thought has created the problems which surround us. And our brains are trained, educated, conditioned to solving problems. Please understand this. Thought has created the problems, like division between nationalities, thought has created the division and therefore the conflict between various economic structures, thought has created, invented the various religions and divided them and therefore there is conflict. And the brain is trained to solve these conflicts which thought has created. I wonder if you see all this. Can we go on? We understand this problem together? And unless we deeply understand the nature of our thinking, the nature of our reactions, which is part of our thinking. And thought dominates our lives. Whatever we do, whatever action takes place, thought is behind that action. Every activity, whether it is sensual activity or intellectual activity or merely biological physical activity, thought is operating all the time. Biologically, through centuries it has been programmed, conditioned, the body acts in its own way, breathes, but the brain which has evolved through millennia upon millennia, that has been programmed to a certain pattern, which is obvious. If you are a Catholic or a Hindu or a Buddhist, whatever it is, you repeat it over and over again.	思想制造了我们身边的问题，我们的头脑被训练得习惯于去解决问题。请理解这一点。思想制造了问题，例如国家的划分，思想造成了这种划分，由此导致了各个经济体系之间的冲突，思想还创造、发明了各种宗教，并分裂了宗教，由此便出现了冲突。于是，大脑便被训练着去解决这些思想制造的冲突。我不知道你们是否明白这些。我们可以继续讲吗？我们一起理解这个问题了吗？我们必须深刻理解思维的本质，反应的本质，反应是我们思维的一部分。思想支配着我们的生活。无论我们做什么，无论发生什么行动，都是思想在背后发号施令。每项活动，不论感官活动、智力活动，还是仅仅身体方面的活动，始终都是思想在起作用。从生物学角度看，大脑在许多世纪当中受到程序设定和训练 ——身体以它自己的方式行动、呼吸，但这个进化了成千上万年的大脑已经被设定了某种运作模式，显然如此。如果你是天主教徒、印度教徒或佛教徒，不论是什么，你就会不断重复那个模式。
23:22	And, as we asked the other day, what is thought? Why has thought become so extraordinarily important in our lives? Is there an action which is not born of thought? We have to enquire into all this, it is not just ask these questions and wait for somebody else to answer it. Nobody is going to answer it. And if you put the question to yourself and are serious in the question, you will break the pattern. I will show you as we go along. The speaker will go into it.	那么，正如我们那天问的，什么是思想？为什么思想在我们生活中变得如此重要，如此不同寻常？是否存在不是来自思想的行动？我们必须调查这些问题，不是仅仅问问这些问题，然后等着别人来回答。没有人会来回答。而如果你问自己这个问题，并严肃对待这个问题，那么你就会打破这个模式。在我们进行过程中我会展示给你。讲者会去探究。
24:21	Thought is the movement of time. I will go very carefully into it. Please, let's go together into it. Thought is the movement of time and space. Which is, thought is memory, the remembrance of past things. Thought is the activity of knowledge. Knowledge which has been gathered together through millions and millions of years and stored as memory in the brain. Please, the speaker is not an expert on the brain. But if you observe your own activity you will see that experience and knowledge is the basis of our life. And knowledge is never complete, it must always go together with ignorance. See the importance, please understand this. Knowledge, we think, is going to solve all our problems. Whether it is the knowledge of the priest, the guru, or the scientist or the philosopher, or the latest psychiatrist. But we have never questioned whether knowledge in itself, not about something – you understand the difference? – whether knowledge in itself can solve any of our problems except perhaps technological problems. So we must go into it.	思想是时间的运动。我会非常仔细地去探究。请注意，我们一起来探究。思想是时间和空间的运动。就是说，思想是记忆，是往事的回忆。思想是知识的行动。在数百万年的时间里，知识汇集起来，以记忆形式储存在大脑里。请注意，讲者并非大脑方面的专家。但如果你观察自己的思想活动，你会看到，经验和知识是我们生活的基础。知识从来都不是完整的，必然总是伴随着无知。看看这有多重要，请理解这点。我们认为知识将会解决所有问题。无论那是牧师、古鲁、科学家、哲学家的知识，还是最新的精神病医生的知识。但是我们从未怀疑过不是怀疑某件事情——你明白这种区别吗？—— 而是怀疑知识本身究竟能否解决我们的任何问题 ——或许技术问题应该除外。所以，我们必须调查一下。
27:12	Knowledge comes through time. If one has to learn a language you need time. If you have to learn a skill, you need to have time. If you want to drive a car efficiently, you have to learn about it. That requires time. You have knowledge: how to drive, how to do something skilfully, if you are a carpenter, or a surgeon. Or to put together a computer you must have knowledge, which means time. That same movement, which is the movement of time, is brought over to the psychological field. There too we say, I must have time to learn about myself. I must, in order to change myself from 'what is' to 'what should be', I must have time. The same activity as in the technological world we have brought over that same movement into the psychological world. You are following all this? Which means that time is a great factor in our life, the tomorrow, the past and the present. Right? So time is thought. Time is the acquisition of knowledge through experience both there in the world and here inwardly, requires time, that is what we have been programmed. You are following? Are we understanding each other a little bit? Andiamo.	知识是通过时间获得的。要学会一种语言你需要时间。要学会一门技术需要时间。要想娴熟地驾驶汽车，就必须去学习。那需要时间。你具有开车，熟练做事的知识，要是你是木匠或外科医生的话。或者要想组装一台电脑，你就必须拥有相关知识，这意味着时间。那种同样的运动，也就是时间的运动，被引入到心理领域去了。在这个领域我们也说，我必须花时间来了解自己。我必须花时间，以便将自己从“实然”变成“应然”。我必须得有时间。这与技术领域的活动是一样的，我们将这种同样的活动照搬进了心理领域。这些你们明白吗？这意味着时间是我们生活中的重要因素 ——明天，过去和现在。对吗？所以，时间就是思想。凭借经验获取知识，时间是必须的，无论在那个外部世界，还是在这个内心世界都需要时间，这就是我们被设定的程序。你们明白吗？我们彼此理解一点了吗？ Andiamo.
29:57	So, being programmed that time is necessary to bring about a deep fundamental change in the human structure, we employ thought. Which is, I am this, I shall be that. As you would say in the technical world, I do not know how to put together a computer but I will learn. So time, knowledge, memory, thought: they are a single unit, they are not separate activities, they are a single movement. And thought, being of time, must be limited. Right? Thought, the outcome of knowledge, and knowledge being incomplete, thought must everlastingly be incomplete, therefore limited, and whatever is limited must bring about conflict. Nationality is limited. A religious belief is limited. An experience which you have had or which you are longing for, is limited. Every experience – I don't want to go into that for the moment, it is too complicated – every experience must be limited.	因为受到这样的设定，认为人类结构要想发生根本的转变必须得有时间，所以，我们便利用思想。即，我是这样的，我将变成那样。就像在技术领域你也会说，我不懂如何装配计算机，但我会去学。所以，时间、知识、记忆、思想，它们是一体的，不是分开的运动，而是一种运动。思想，因为属于时间，必然也是有限的。对吗？思想是知识的结果，又因为知识是不完整的，思想必然永远都是不完整的，因而是有限的，而任何有限的东西必然会导致冲突。国籍有局限性。宗教信仰有局限性。你曾经的经验，或者你渴望得到的经验是有限的。每一种经验 ——我这会儿不想细说这个，这个太复杂了—— 必定都是有限的。
32:09	Questioner: Why?	问：为什么？
32:12	K: Because there are more experiences. I may have an experience, sexual, the experience of the possession of wealth, the experience of giving up and going to a monastery, they are all limited. So knowledge is limited. And so thought is limited. Thought, being limited, creating problems, national divisions, economic divisions, religious divisions racial divisions, which is happening in the world and therefore bringing tremendous conflict, and having created the problem, thought says, I must solve it. And so it is always functioning in the resolution of problems. You understand? I wonder if you capture this. See what we are doing. And the computer, which has been programmed, can outstrip all of us because it has no problems, it evolves, learns, moves. I won't go into that for the moment.	克：因为还有更多的经验。我也许有性的经验，或者，有拥有财富的经验，有放弃一切进入修道院的经验 ——那些经验都是有限的。所以，知识是有限的。所以，思想是有限的。思想，因为是有限的，所以会制造问题 ——民族划分、经济划分、宗教划分、种族划分，现在世界就是这种情况，因而会导致巨大的冲突，在制造问题之后，思想说，我必须解决问题。因此思想总是在忙于解决问题。你明白吗？不知你们领会这个没有。看看我们做的是什么事。经过编程的计算机能够胜过我们所有人，因为它不存在问题，它可以更新换代、不断学习。我现在不想细说这个。
33:53	So, our consciousness – which we have been programmed as the individual consciousness – we are questioning whether that consciousness which you have accepted as individual is actually individual at all. We are thinking together, don't resist it. Don't say, 'What will happen if I am not individual?' Something totally different may happen. But as long as we have been programmed through time endless that we are individual, our consciousness is individual – is that so? You may have a skilful individual training in a particular trade, in a particular profession. You may be a surgeon, a doctor, an engineer and so on, that doesn't make you an individual. You may be tall, short, black, white, purple, whatever colour it is, that doesn't make you an individual. You may have a different name, a different form, does that make individuality? Or the acceptance, the brain that has through time said, I am an individual and it is my desire to fulfil, to become, to struggle. So we are examining that so-called individual consciousness – which is yours – whether that individual consciousness is not the consciousness of the entire humanity apart from the training as a doctor, as a surgeon, all that. You've got it?	那么，我们的意识 ——我们将这个意识设定为个体的意识了—— 我们在质疑这个你当作单独的意识而接受下来的意识，实际上到底是不是单独的。我们在共同思考，不要抵触。不要说，“我要不是单独的个体会怎样呢？” 或许会有完全不同的事情发生。但在漫长的岁月里，我们已经被程序设定好了，相信我们是单独的，相信我们的意识是单独的 ——是这么回事吗？你也许在某个行业或职业中单独接受过技术培训。你或许是一位外科大夫、医生，工程师，等等，但那并不足以使你成为一个个体。你身材或高或矮，皮肤或黑或白，或者是紫色的，不论什么颜色，但那并不足以使你成为个体。你或许有个不同的名字，不同的体型，那会带来独特性吗？还是说，是你接受了这个想法，经过时间演化的大脑说，我是一个个体，我想要实现，我想要成为，想要努力这就是我的渴望。所以，我们在调查这个所谓的个体意识 ——也就是你的意识—— 那个个体意识是不是全人类的意识，把医生、外科医生所接受的培训等等排除在外。你明白了吗？
36:25	Is our consciousness, your consciousness which you have accepted as separate, is it so, and what is the nature of your consciousness? Please, as we said, look at it, together. The consciousness that we think is separate from the rest of mankind, that consciousness is the sensory responses, part of it, sensory responses. And also, those sensory responses are naturally, necessarily programmed: to defend oneself, to be hungry, to breathe unconsciously – you are doing this. So biologically you are programmed. Then the content of your consciousness is the many hurts, the wounds that one has received from childhood till now. The many forms of guilt. I am beginning slowly, we are going to expand it. The various conclusions, ideas, imaginary certainties, the many experiences, both sensory, sexual, other forms of psychological experiences. And there is always the basis, the root of fear in its multiple forms. Please we are looking at it together, your own consciousness which is you. Fear, and with it naturally goes hatred. Where there is fear there must be violence, aggression, the tremendous urge to succeed both in the physical world as well as in the psychological world. Fear has many factors which we will go into when we are talking about fear. And the constant pursuit of pleasure: pleasure of possession, pleasure of domination, the pleasure of money which gives power, the pleasure of a philosopher with his immense knowledge, the guru with his circus. Pleasure again has innumerable forms.	你们相信我们的意识、你的意识是单独的意识，真是这样吗？你的意识的本质是什么呢？请注意，正如我们讲的，要一起去看看。我们认为这个意识与其他人是分开的，那个意识是感官意识，它的一部分是感官反应。而且，那些感官反应的设定是很自然、很必要的，比如：自我保护，感到饥饿，下意识地呼吸——你们正在这样做。所以，你已经在生理上给设定好了。你的意识内容就是很多次伤害，从童年至今遭受过的创伤。很多形式的负罪感。我慢慢开始讲，我们将展开来讲。其中还包括各种结论、想法，虚幻的确定性，以及许多经验，既有感官经验、性经验，也有其它心理经验。恐惧的形式多种多样，其基础和根源总是存在的。请注意，我们是在一起审视你自己的意识，也就是你。恐惧与仇恨相伴相生，这很自然。只要有恐惧，必然会有暴力，有侵犯，和对成功的强烈诉求，在外部世界和内心世界都是这样。恐惧有很多因素，我们在谈恐惧的时候会去探究一番。意识内容中还有对快乐的无尽追求，占有的快乐，控制的快乐，会带给你权力的金钱的快乐，博学的哲学家的快乐，会变戏法的古鲁的快乐。快乐同样有数不清的形式。
41:04	And then there is also sorrow, pain, anxiety, the deep sense of abiding, endless loneliness, and not only the so-called personal sorrow, but also the enormous sorrow mankind has brought about through wars, through neglect, through this endless sense of conquering one group of people by another. And in that consciousness there is the racial group content, and ultimately there is death. This is our consciousness: belief, certainties and uncertainties, great sense of anxiety, loneliness, sorrow, and endless misery. This is the fact. And we say, this consciousness is mine. Is that so? You go to the Far East or Near East, India or America, Europe, anywhere you go where human beings are, they suffer, they are anxious, lonely, depressed, melancholic, struggling, conflict – same like you, similar to you. So is your consciousness different from another? I know it is very difficult for people, you may logically accept this, which is intellectually, verbally you say, yes, that is so, maybe. But to feel this, this total human sense of there is no humanity except you, you are the rest of mankind. That requires a great deal of sensitivity. It is not a problem to be solved. It isn't I must accept that I am not an individual and how am I to feel this global human entity? Then you have made it into a problem, and the brain is ready to solve the problem – do this, don't do that, go to a guru, you know, all the circus that goes on. But if you really look at it with your mind, with your heart, with your whole being, totally aware of this fact, then you have broken the programme. It is naturally broken. But if you say, I will break it, you are again back into the same pattern.	还有伤悲、痛苦、焦虑、深深的无尽无休的孤独感，不只是所谓的个人的悲伤，还有战争带给人类的巨大悲伤，以及冷遇和一个群体被另一个群体征服，等等而带来的无尽伤悲。意识当中还有种族群体的内容，在最后，还有死亡。这就是我们的意识 ——信念、确定和不确定、巨大的忧虑、孤独和悲伤的感觉以及无尽的痛苦。这些都是事实。而我们却说这个意识是我的！是这样吗？在远东、近东、印度、美国、欧洲，无论你去哪儿，那里的人都是如此，他们也遭受痛苦，他们也感到焦虑、孤独、沮丧、忧郁、挣扎、冲突 ——他们和你一样，和你相似。那么，你的意识和另一个人的意识是不同的么？我知道，对人们来说这很难接受 ——或许你会在逻辑上接受，会理智地嘴上说，是的，也许是那样的。但是要感受到这一点，这种全人类的感觉：除你之外，没有人类，你就是其他的人类。这需要极其敏锐的感觉。这不是需要解决的问题。不是说，我必须接受我不是个体这个说法，然后又问，我该怎样感受到这个人类整体呢？那你就把它弄成一个头脑要去解决的问题了 ——这样做，不要那样，拜访古鲁，你知道，现在上演的那些马戏。但是如果你真的去审视，用你的智慧、用你的心、用你的整个存在完整地意识到这个事实，那么你就打破了这套程序。是很自然地打破这套程序。但如果你说，我要打破它，那你就又回到了相同的模式。
45:24	I wonder if you understand this? Shall I go over it again? Is it necessary for the speaker to repeat this? No, please don't accept this because the speaker feels this. To him this is utter reality, not something verbally accepted because it is pleasant. But it is something that is actual. Then, if that is so, which is logically, reasonably, sanely examined, and you see it is so, but the brain which has been accustomed to this programme of the individuality is going to revolt against it, which you are doing now. Which is – listen – which is the brain is unwilling to learn. Right? Whereas the computer is willing to learn because it has nothing to lose. Here we are frightened of losing something. And if you don't understand this we can go into it over and over again. But a serious person confronting the world situation, the world catastrophe: the terror, the atom bomb, the endless competition between nations that is destroying human beings, that is destroying us, each one. And the decision comes when you perceive the truth that you are not an individual.	不知你明白这个没有？我需要重讲一遍吗？有必要让讲者再讲一遍吗？请不要因为讲者感受到这个就相信这个。对讲者来说，这是绝对的事实，而不是因为接受起来令人愉快就口头上接受了的东西。但这是实际的事情。那么，如果是这样，经过逻辑严谨、理智清楚的调查，你看到是这么回事，但是大脑已经习惯于这套程序，相信自己是个体，那么，它就会抵触这个发现，你们现在就是这样。就是说——听好—— 大脑不肯学习。对吗？而计算机愿意学习，因为它不会失去什么。但是在这里，我们都害怕失去。如果你不理解这个，我们可以反反复复地探讨。而一个严肃的人，面对着当前世界局势，面对着这场世界灾难：恐怖、核武器、国家之间永无休止地竞争，这些都在摧毁人类，毁灭我们每一个人。而看到这个事实：你不是一个个体，就会带来决断。
48:13	So can the brain learn? That is the whole point. So we have to go into this question of what is learning. You understand? I hope I may take off my jersey.	那么，头脑能去学习吗？那才是关键。所以，现在我们必须探讨什么是学习这个问题。你明白吗？你不介意我脱下毛衣吧。
48:56	Learning for most of us is a process of acquiring knowledge. Right? I do not know Russian but I will learn. I will learn day after day, learning, memorising, holding on to certain phrases, words, the meanings, syntax, verbs, irregular verbs, etc. I apply, and can learn any language within a certain time. So to us, learning is essentially the accumulation of knowledge, skill and so on. That is, our brains are conditioned to this pattern – accumulate knowledge and act. Right? That is what we know. So look, are we learning? When I learn a language, I am learning. There knowledge is necessary. But am I learning psychologically about the content of my mind, of my consciousness. And learning there implies examining each layer of it, accumulating knowledge about it and from that knowledge, act. The same pattern as the other – you are following? And I am questioning, that is only a part of learning. If the brain is repeating this pattern, learning a language, learning about the content of my consciousness, is similar, because I need time, which means I am accumulating knowledge about myself, my consciousness. And then I determine what the problems are, and the brain is ready to solve the problems because it has been trained to solve problems. So I am repeating this endless pattern, and that is what I call learning. Right? I go to a guru, if I am silly enough, and he will tell me what to do, what not to do, be initiated, all that tommyrot that goes on!	对我们大多数人来说，学习是获取知识的过程。对吗？我不懂俄语，但我可以去学。我会日复一日地学习，熟记、掌握一些短语、单词、释义、句法、动词、不规则动词等等。只要用功，就能在一定时间内学会任何一门语言。对我们来说，学习本质上就是知识、技能等等的积累。就是说，我们的大脑习惯于这种学习模式 ——积累知识并由此行动。对吗？这是我们所懂得的学习。那么听着，我们这是在学习吗？学习语言的时候，我是在学习。学习语言，知识是必要的。但在心理方面，我在学习我头脑和意识的内容。这种学习，意味着检查意识的每一个层面，积累有关意识的知识，并根据那个知识去行动。这和学习语言的模式是一样的。你明白吗？而我怀疑这只是学习的一部分。如果大脑重复那个模式，学习语言，和学习我的意识内容是相似的，因为我都需要时间，这意味着我在积累关于我自己、关于我的意识的知识。然后我确定问题是什么，大脑再去准备解决这些问题，大脑一直接受的是这种解决问题的训练。所以，我是在没完没了地重复这个模式，那就是我所谓的学习。对吗？我要是很愚蠢，就会去找某位古鲁，他会告诉我做什么，不做什么，举行入教仪式，等等，都是些胡说八道。
53:19	So what does it mean to learn? You understand? Is there a learning which is not this? We are enquiring. Please don't say there is no other way than this or, 'Tell us the other way', but together we are doing it. So you are not learning from me. The speaker has nothing to tell you. But together we are looking. This is the pattern the brain has been programmed to, always accumulating knowledge. And knowledge has become so astonishingly important. And we don't say that knowledge in itself is limited. Now we are going to find out if there is a different action of learning, which is not accumulation of knowledge. You see the difference? You understand this? Please, somebody say yes or no!	那么学习是什么意思？你明白吗？有没有一种不是这个样子的学习？我们在调查。请不要说除此以外别无他法，或者，“告诉我们别的方法吧”，我们其实是要一起来调查。所以，你们不是在跟我学习。讲者没有任何东西要告诉你。我们是在一起观察。这是大脑被设定好的模式，这种模式总是在积累知识。知识变得极其重要起来。我们不是说知识自身是有限的。我们要来弄清楚有没有一种不同的学习，不积累知识的学习？你看到不同之处了吗？你明白这个吗？谁来回答一下！
54:53	Audience: Yes.	观众：明白。
55:03	K: Let me put it differently. Experience, from experience knowledge, from knowledge memory, the response of memory is thought, then thought acts, from that action you learn more, so you repeat the cycle. Right? This is the pattern of our life. He must be doing it purposely! And we are saying, that form of learning will never solve our problems because it is repetition. More knowledge, better action, but that action is limited and so on – keep this repeating. That is clear, right? And the activity of that knowledge will not solve our human problems at all. It is so obvious, we haven't solved them. After two or five million years we haven't solved our problems. We are cutting each other's throat, we are competing with each other, we hate each other – not here – we want to be a success, the whole pattern is being repeated from the time man began, and we are still there. So this pattern has not solved the problems. Is that clear? Do what you will along this pattern. No human problem will be solved either politically, religiously, economically, because it is thought that is operating. Right?	克：让我换个说法。先是有经验，然后再从经验获得知识，再从知识产生记忆，对记忆的反应就是思想，然后思想去行动，你再从行动中学习更多的东西，你这样循环往复。对吗？那就是我们生活的模式。他这么做肯定是有目的的！而我们说的是，那种形式的学习永远也不会解决问题，因为它是重复。获取更多的知识，完善行动，但那种行动是有限的，等等——这是在不断重复。这个清楚了，对吗？由那个知识而来的行动根本解决不了我们人类的问题。我们没有解决那些问题，这很明显。在二百万、五百万年之后，我们并未解决问题，我们还在你死我活地争斗，我们还在彼此竞争，互相憎恨——不是说这里—— 我们想要做成功人士，从有人类以来就在重复这整套模式，我们现在依然如此。所以这个模式解决不了问题。这清楚吗？沿着这个模式，无论做什么。任何人类的问题都不会得到解决，无论是政治问题、宗教问题还是经济问题，因为起作用的都是思想。对吗？
58:00	Now, is there another form, we will use the word for the moment: learn. Learn, not in the context of knowledge but a different form of non-accumulative action, let's call it that way. Right? Have you understood? Non-accumulative perception-action. So we have to enquire whether it is possible to observe the content of our consciousness, to observe the world and my consciousness without a single prejudice. Is that possible? Don't say, it is not possible, how am I to get rid of prejudice, just ask the question. See whether, when you have a prejudice you can observe clearly. You cannot, obviously. If I have a certain conclusion, a certain set of beliefs, concepts, ideals, and I want to see clearly what the world is, all my conclusions, ideals, prejudices and so on will actually prevent it. It is not, how to get rid of my prejudices, but to see clearly, intelligently, that any form of prejudice, however noble or ugly, any form of prejudice will actually prevent perception. When you see that, prejudice goes. Because what is important is not the prejudice but the demand to see clearly. Right? I wonder if you are meeting me.	那么，是否存在另一种形式的 ——我们暂时用这个词——学习。不是以知识为背景的学习，而是一种不同形式的，没有积累的行动，我们这样称呼这种学习。对吗？你们明白吗？非积累性的看见——行动。所以，我们就必须探究，有没有可能不携带个人的成见去观察世界，去观察我们的意识内容。那是可能的吗？不要说那不可能，我该怎样摆脱成见，只是问这个问题，看看若带着成见，你能否进行清楚的观察。显然不能。如果我有某些结论，某些信仰、观念、理想，而我想清楚地看到这个世界的样子，那么，我的那些结论、理想、成见等等实际上就会妨碍我看。这不是如何去除成见的问题，而是清晰地、智慧地看到，任何形式的成见，无论多么高尚，还是多么卑鄙，任何成见实际上都会妨碍看见。当你看到这点，成见就会消失。重要的不是成见，而是这个想看清楚的强烈要求。对吗？不知你和我沟通上了吗？
1:00:36	If I want to be a good surgeon, I can't become a good surgeon with all my ideas and prejudices about surgeons, I have to actually do it. So can you see that a new form of action, a new form of non-accumulative knowledge is only possible, and therefore break the pattern, break the programme so that you are acting totally differently. Have I put the question clearly? Gosh, I am struggling so much to put it clearly. No, I am not struggling, sorry. Is this clear? That is, the way we have lived for a million years has been the repetition of the same process of acquiring knowledge and acting from that knowledge, which is limited. And that limitation creates problems, and the brain has become accustomed to solving the problems which knowledge has created. So it is caught in that pattern. And any form of learning is to add more to it. And we are saying, that pattern will never, under any circumstances, solve our human problems. Which is so obvious, because we have not solved them up to now. There must be a different, a totally different movement which is: the non-accumulative perception-action. And to have the non-accumulative perception is to have no prejudice. Is to have absolutely no ideals, no concepts, no faith, because all those have destroyed man, they have not solved the problems. You understand now? Are you doing it now? Otherwise, there is no point in just listening to the nonsense. Unless you do it, it has no meaning. You grow old and die. You may attend these conferences year after year, and, you know, it is nice to meet each other.	如果我想成为一名优秀的外科医生，那么对外科医生的看法或成见会使我无法成为优秀的外科医生，我必须真正去做才行。所以，你能否看到，只有一种新的行动，一种新的不积累知识的行动，才是唯一可能的行动，才会打破模式，才会打破程序，这样，你就是在以截然不同的方式行动了？我把问题说清楚了吗？天哪，为了说清楚，我费了好大劲儿。不，我没费劲儿，抱歉。这个清楚了吗？就是说，一百万年来，我们的生活一直重复着相同的过程，积累知识并根据有限的知识去行动。那种局限会造成问题，而大脑已经习惯于解决知识制造的问题。于是就陷在了那个模式当中。任何形式的学习都在使问题更加复杂。我们说的就是，无论在任何情况下，那种模式永远都不会解决我们人类的问题。这很明显，到目前为止我们并未解决这些问题。必须有一种不同的行动，一种完全不同的行动，也就是：非积累性的看见——行动。要没有积累地去看，就不能抱有成见。就是要完全没有理想，没有观念，没有信仰，因为那些东西都摧毁了人类，却没有解决问题。你现在明白了吗？你现在正在这样做吗？如果不是，只来听听这些废话是毫无意义的。除非你去调查，否则就毫无意义。你会老去，死掉。你可能年复一年地来参加这些会议，你知道，大家彼此见面是非常愉快的。
1:04:06	So, have you a prejudice? Have you a prejudice which has something common with ideals? Of course – right? Ideals are the future, to be accomplished, and ideals become tremendously important in the process of knowledge. So can you observe without accumulation the destructive nature of prejudice, ideals, faith, belief, and your own conclusions and experiences? Can you do this? Don't ask the speaker, have you done it? Otherwise the speaker wouldn't be here. So, please understand this. There is group consciousness, we went into it – I am not talking irrelevantly, I want to point out something – there is group consciousness, national consciousness, linguistic consciousness, and professional consciousness, racial consciousness, and fear, anxiety, loneliness, pursuit of pleasure, sorrow, love, death, all that is part – right? If you keep acting in that circle you maintain the human consciousness of the world. You understand? Just see the truth of it. Because you are part of that consciousness, and if you sustain it by saying, I am an individual, my prejudices are important, my ideals are essential - you follow? My guru is a better guru than the other guru and so on, so on, so on, you are repeating the same thing over and over again.	那么，你抱有成见吗？成见和理想有些共同之处，你有成见吗？当然有，对吗？理想是要在将来完成的，而理想在知识的过程中变得极端重要。因此，你能没有积累地去观察吗？积累是成见、理想、信仰、信念以及自己的结论和经验的具有破坏性的特征。你能不抱成见吗？不要问讲者你做到了吗？讲者没做到就不会来这里。所以请理解这个。存在着群体意识，我们谈过这个 ——我不是在讲无关的事情，我想指出一些问题—— 存在着群体意识、国家意识、语言意识、职业意识、种族意识以及恐惧、焦虑、孤独、对快乐的追逐以及悲伤、爱和死亡，这些都是意识的一部分——对吗？如果你不断地在那个圈子里行动，你就是在维持全世界人类的意识。你明白吗？看看这其中的真相。因为你就是那个意识的一部分，而如果你维持这个意识，你说，我是个体，我的成见很重要，我的理想极其重要——你明白吗？我的古鲁比别的古鲁强，等等，等等，你就是在不断地重复同一件事。
1:06:58	Now, the maintenance, the sustenance, and the nourishment of that consciousness comes when you are repeating that pattern. You sustain it. But when you break away from that consciousness you are introducing a totally new factor in the whole of that consciousness. You understand? Please understand this: they are experimenting – as the speaker pointed out the other day – with various forms of group consciousness. They haven't come to that. If one group has learnt something quickly, the animals that belong to that group learn much quicker because the consciousness of that group is enlivened by a new factor. Now, if we understand the nature of our own consciousness, see how it is operating in this endless cycle of knowledge action, division and so on, that consciousness has been sustained for millennia, a million years. If when you see the truth that any form of prejudice, all this is a form of prejudice, and break away from it, you give a new factor into the old. You understand what I am saying? Which means are you, as a human being who is the rest of mankind, of whose consciousness you are, and whether you can move away from the old pattern – the old pattern of obedience, acceptance, you know, all that. That is the real turning point in our life. Because man cannot go on repeating this pattern. It has lost its meaning, except in the biological and technical world. In the psychological world it has totally lost its meaning. What – if you fulfil, who cares? If you become a saint, what does it matter? You follow? Whereas if you totally move away from that, you affect the whole consciousness of mankind. Right, I have stopped.	当你重复那个模式的时候，就是在维持和滋养那个意识。你在维持那个意识。但是当你脱离了那个意识，你就为整个意识注入了一个全新的因素。你明白吗？请理解这个：他们在进行试验 ——就像讲者那天指出的—— 试验各种形式的群体意识。他们还没走到那一步。如果有一群动物学习什么东西很快，属于那个群体的那些动物就会学得比较快，因为一个新的因素让群体意识活跃起来了。那么，如果我们理解了自身意识的本质，明白它是如何在这个无尽的知识、行动、划分等等的循环中运作的 ——上千年来，这个意识一直被维持着。如果你看到这个真相，即任何形式的成见这一切都是某种形式的成见，并从中脱离出来，你就给旧的事物注入了新的要素。你明白我说的吗？这意味着，作为一个人，你就是其他人类，你的意识就是人类的意识，你能否跳出过去的模式，跳出这个旧的服从、接受的模式，那些你都了解。那是你生命的真正的转折点。人不能再重复这种模式了。这种模式已经失去了意义 ——生物和技术领域除外。在心理领域这种模式已经完全失去了意义。你功成圆满又怎样？谁在乎呢？你成了圣人，这有什么关系？你明白吗？然而，如果你完全从那些东西中脱离出来，你就会影响整个人类的意识。好了，我讲完了。