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SA84T4 - 此刻就结束混乱
瑞士，萨嫩，第四次公开演讲，1984年7月15日



0:22 May we continue where we left off on Thursday? I am afraid they are all standing there - apparently there is no room. Do we extend the tent? It can't be done this morning, it will have to be next year. 我们可以接着我们周四结束的地方继续讲下去吗？ 我恐怕有些人都是站在那里听演讲 ——很显然地方不够了。 我们可以把帐篷加大一点吗？ 今天早上是不行了，只能明年再来做这件事了。
1:02 We were talking about freedom. I won't go into all that again this morning because we have only two more talks. So we have to go into several other things like order, what is the nature of order, disorder and what it means to change. And we should also consider this morning what is fear, and whether it is possible for human beings who have lived on this earth for more than fifty five thousand years, why human beings have never been free from fear. And also we ought to talk over together the whole question of suffering, the pain of sorrow, anxiety, loneliness and all the innumerable travail that human beings are heir to. And we also should talk over the next two days: what is love? What is compassion and the nature of intelligence? And also we should talk over together what is death, what is religion and the nature of meditation. We have got a lot of ground to cover. Is that all right? 我们之前谈论了自由。 今天早上我就不再深入探讨所有这些东西了， 因为我们只剩下两次演讲了。 所以我们需要去探讨一些其他的东西，比如秩序， 秩序的本质是什么？还有混乱， 以及改变是什么意思？ 而今天早上，我们也应当来考虑一下： 什么是恐惧？ 以及人类是否可能 ——人类已经在这个地球上生活了 超过55000年了， 为什么人类从未能够摆脱恐惧？ 而我们也应该一起来讨论一下 那整个关于痛苦的问题， 那种悲伤、焦虑和孤独的痛苦， 以及人类所继承下来的无数劳苦。 而在接下来的两天里，我们也会来讨论一下： 什么是爱？ 什么是慈悲？以及智慧的本质是什么？ 而我们也应该一起来讨论一下： 什么是死亡？什么是宗教？ 以及冥想的本质是什么？ 我们有很多东西要讲。 这没有问题吧？
3:22 So we will begin this morning: what is the nature of order? And if one may again remind you, we are not doing any kind of propaganda, propagate any theory, any concept, a new philosophy, a new concept of life, or substitute for all this, faith and so on. And also this is not personality cult. And also if we may remind you, doubt is necessary. Doubt your own experiences, doubt, question, your own thinking, your opinions, your judgements, your evaluations, whether we can look at the world and at ourselves totally impersonally, objectively so that we see things as they are, not as we would like them to be. And the speaker is not an authority, because we are going to discuss, or talk over together this problem of order and authority, or disorder - they go together. What is the nature of order? We live in disorder, both externally, outwardly, with all the things that are going on in the world, all the demonstrations for peace and at the same time cultivating, preparing, inventing new means of destruction of humanity. There are political divisions, religious divisions, economic divisions and so on. So outwardly through this division there have been thousands of wars, and religions have added to this division. And inwardly, psychologically, in the area of the psyche, we are also in conflict. And so we should talk over together why, after all these thousands of years, why we accept and live in disorder. 所以，今天早上我们首先要问的是： 秩序的本质是什么？ 如果允许某人再次提醒下你们的话， 我们并不是在进行某种宣传洗脑， 我们没有在宣传任何理论、 任何概念、某种新的哲学、 某种新的生活理念， 或者所有这些东西的替代品，也就是信仰等等这类东西。 此外，这也不是一次个人崇拜。 同样的，我们需要提醒一下你： 怀疑是必需的。 怀疑你自身的经验， 去怀疑、去质疑你自身的思考、 你的观点、你的判断、你的评价， 我们是否可以 完全客观地、不带个人色彩地去观察这个世界和我们自己？ 由此我们便可以看到事物的真实模样， 而不是看到我们希望它们成为的样子。 演讲者并不是什么权威， 因为我们将要来一起讨论，或者详细探讨 这个关于秩序和权威的问题，或者关于混乱的问题 ——这些问题是连在一起的。 秩序的本质是什么？ 我们生活在混乱之中， 外在上、表面上， 所有那些混乱之事正在全世界发生着， 所有那些呼吁和平的示威游行， 而与此同时，人们却在培养、准备和发明 各种摧毁人类的新的手段。 我们有着政治上的分裂，宗教上的分裂， 经济上的分裂等等。 所以外在上而言，经由这种分裂，我们曾经有过成千上万次战争， 宗教则助长了这种分裂。 而内在、心理上，在精神领域， 我们同样也处于冲突之中。 因此我们应该一起来讨论一下 为什么会这样？在经过了这成千上万年之后， 为什么我们会接受这种混乱并生活在混乱之中？
7:22 It is an important question to ask whether one can live in perfect order? And to understand that deeply, not superficially adjusting, arranging, reorganising, but much more deeply, why? what is the cause of conflict, division, why human beings, who are supposed to have evolved through thousands and thousands of years, whose brain, that which is within the skull, why there at the very centre there is such disorder. Disorder exists where there is contradiction. Right? We are talking over together. Where there is division, where there is the process of duality, opposing elements, opposing desires, contradictory thoughts. This division in which we live, you and I, we and they, this division is the basic cause of disorder. Right? Do we see this? Not merely verbally or intellectually but actually see in ourselves the opposing contradictory pursuits. Where there is love there is also apparently antagonism, hatred, jealousy. Where one wants to live peacefully there is also in us the opposite of that, violence. Man has lived - human beings have lived on this earth with constant violence. We are as human beings violent, aggressive people. And apparently we have never solved the problem of violence. And probably we are not even aware that we are violent. If we are, as most of us should be, then we pursue a thing that is the opposite of violence, which is called non-violence. That is a fact. And violence has no opposite. It is violence. Even though thought says we must pursue non-violence, live peacefully. So in us there is the dualistic process going on. Agree? Do we see this together? I am violent - we will go into the nature of violence. And at the same time I have an ideal and I pursue that ideal, which is I must not be violent. Or I rationalise my violence, say it is necessary in a world as it is now, socially, morally, religiously and so on, we must be violent, we must be aggressive, we must be ambitious, otherwise we will be destroyed. That is one aspect of the violence. And also we say at the same time, if you are at all slightly aware of what is happening, we say there must also at the same time, or perhaps a little later, a pursuit of that which is not violent. So there is this dualistic process in us going on all the time - right? We see that? Right? Would you agree to this? Not agree, but see the fact of it. 我们需要问一个很重要的问题： 是否我们可以生活在完美的秩序之中？ 要深刻地了解这一点， 不是表面上的调整、安排和整顿， 而是远远更为深刻，为什么会这样？ 造成冲突和分裂的原因是什么？ 为什么据说已经进化了 成千上万年的人类， 他们的头脑——也就是那个头骨里的大脑， 为什么在头脑的中心处会有如此的混乱。 有矛盾冲突的地方，就会有混乱。 对吧？我们正在一起讨论它。 当有了分裂， 当二元性的过程发生， 那些彼此对立的元素，彼此对立的欲望， 自相矛盾的想法。 我们就活在这种分裂之中， 你和我，我们和他们， 这种分裂就是造成混乱的最基本的原因。 不是吗？ 我们是否看到了这一点？ 不仅仅是口头上，或者思想上看到它， 而是真正地在自己身上看到它， 那些彼此矛盾对立的追求。 当有了爱， 很显然也会有敌意、仇恨和嫉妒。 当我们想要和平地生活时， 我们内心同样也会有和平的反面，即暴力。 人类已经生活了—— 人们一直伴随着持续不断的暴力而生活在这个地球上。 我们作为人类，是一群暴力的、侵略好斗的人。 而很显然，我们从未能够解决暴力的问题。 我们或许甚至都没有意识到自己是暴力的。 而如果我们意识到了我想我们大多数人应该都意识到了， 那么我们就会去追求那个与暴力相反的东西， 也就是所谓的‘非暴力’。 事实就是如此。 然而暴力是没有反面的。 暴力就是暴力。 即使思想说， ‘我们必须要追求非暴力，去过和平的生活。’ 因此在我们身上，这种二元性的过程正在发生着。 你同意吗？我们是否都看到了这一点？ 我是暴力的—— 我们将会来探究一下暴力的本质—— 而与此同时，我却有一个理想， 然后我追求那个理想， 这个理想就是：我必须不要暴力。 或者我会把我的暴力合理化， 我会说在如今这样的世界中，它是必需的， 不管是从社会上、道德上、宗教上，还是其他什么方面来说， 我们都必须暴力，我们都必须具有侵略性， 我们都必须有野心， 否则的话我们就会被毁灭。 这是暴力的一个方面。 而同时我们也会说， 如果你多少稍微察觉到了一些正在发生的事情的话， 我们同时也会说，或者稍微晚一会儿再说， 那就是我们必须要去追求那个‘非暴力’的东西。 所以这种二元性的过程一直在我们身上发生进行着 ——不是吗？我们看到它了吗？ 对吧？你们同意这一点吗？ 不是‘同意’，而是要看到这其中的事实真相。
13:48 I am glad there are some children here. It is so nice to see children, isn't it? It is beautiful to see children. And unfortunately through education, through the corrupted moral society they are dragged into it, willy nilly through their education, through their social economic environment, they are destroyed. Probably the parents know all this. And they are also in despair, the parents, seeing their own children who were so nice and gentle at the beginning of life, become gradually violent, conforming to the group, and all the misery of life begins. That is another matter. That is, is it possible to educate children without all the pressures and the ugliness of life on them? The society is too strong, they are sucked into it, because we think society is something different from us. You understand? When you see all this you want to cry. Society is what we have made of it, each one of us, society is not different from us because we have created it. It hasn't come into being miraculously, some strange chance has brought this society about, but that is not a fact. The fact is each one of us who are so confused, uncertain, each one seeking his own security, his own fulfilment, his own ambitions, his own urge to gratify his particular pleasure, desire, we have created this society, we are of it. And we don't seem to realise that unless we, each one of us, radically, deeply change, which we will talk about presently, the society will go on as it is, murderous, divided, creating wars. I am sure you have seen the pictures on television of all the terrible things that wars have brought about. But apparently we are rather indifferent to all that, because inwardly we carry on as we are confused, contradictory, fragmented, and so we are always contributing to the horror of things that are going on in the world. 我很高兴地看到，也有一些孩子在这里。 看到孩子令人感觉美好，不是吗？ 看到孩子们，是一件美妙的事。 但不幸的是，经由教育， 经由道德败坏的社会，他们也被拖进了染缸， 不管他们是否愿意，经由他们所受的教育， 经由他们身处的社会环境和经济环境， 他们被摧毁了。 也许父母们都清楚这一切。 而他们也处于绝望中，那些父母， 他们看着自己的孩子 ——他们在生命伊始的时候是那么的可爱与温柔—— 他们却渐渐变得暴力，去遵从符合于群体的规范， 于是生命所有的苦难便开始了。 这是另一件事情了。 也就是说，我们是否可能教育孩子， 而不把所有那些压力和生活的丑陋加诸于他们？ 这个社会太过于强大， 孩子们被它所吞没， 因为我们认为社会是某种有别于我们的东西。 你理解了吗？ 当你看到这一切后，你会想要哭泣。 社会是我们一手创造出来的东西， 我们每一个人创造了它， 社会与我们并没有什么不同，因为是我们创造出了它。 它并不是奇迹般地出现的， 不是某种奇特的机缘巧合带来了这个社会， 事实并非如此。 事实是，我们每一个人都是如此的困惑、不确定， 每一个人都在寻求他自己的安全感， 他自己的成就，他自己的野心， 他自己欲望的满足，他自己特定的快感和欲求， 我们已经创造出了这个社会，我们就是它的一部分。 而我们似乎并没有意识到， 那就是除非直到我们，我们每一个人彻底地、深刻地转变 ——我们过一会儿就会来谈论这一点—— 否则社会仍旧会继续保持原样， 杀戮、分裂、制造战争。 我相信你们都在电视上看到过那些画面， 那些画面展示了战争所带来的所有可怕骇人的事物。 但是很显然，我们对这一切漠不关心， 因为我们的内在依然如故， 困惑、矛盾、支离破碎， 因此我们一直在助长着 这些世界上正在发生着的骇人之事。
18:43 We were talking about order. And we said the cause of disorder, which is what is fact, not order, so we must deal with fact, the fact is that we live, each one of us, in disorder, what is the cause of this disorder? Is it division in ourselves? Contradiction in ourselves? Concern with ourselves, we are so self-centred? Our own self-centredness is essentially bringing about disorder. When each one is thinking about himself and from that self-centred activity life becomes very narrow, small, and that very limited state of brain will inevitably cause division. Right? That is the basic cause of disorder. 我们谈论了秩序。 而我们也说了导致混乱的原因，混乱才是事实， 而不是秩序， 所以我们必须要来面对处理事实， 事实就是我们——我们每一个人，都生活在混乱之中， 导致这种混乱的原因是什么？ 是不是我们内心的分裂？ 我们内心的矛盾？ 只关心我们自己，我们是如此的自私自利？ 本质上，是我们自己的自我中心带来了混乱。 当每一个人都只想着他自己， 那么经由这种自我中心的活动，生活就变得非常狭隘和渺小了， 而那种头脑的局限状态 将不可避免地导致分裂。 不是吗？ 这是导致混乱的基本原因。
20:46 And we talked about the other day, and for several days, about the nature of time. Please don't get impatient. We must talk about it again. We said time is the past, time is the future, and that future is now. The future is what you are now. Right? If I am violent now, the future is, tomorrow, or a thousand tomorrows. And if I do not radically change now the future is now - right? Have you understood this thing? Please don't let me talk to myself. We must share this together, it is not my truth and your truth, truth has no person, no path. And this is a fact, this is the truth that all time, the past, the future and the present are contained in the now. It is logical, rational, it is intellectually irrefutable. But you may not like it. And most of us live in like and dislike, we don't want to face something actually, we would rather slur over things. As we are - I hope we are serious people, at least for this morning, which is a tragedy, at least for this morning let us look at this thing together: that time, the past, the present and the future, are in the now. 而我们前几天也谈论了——已经谈论了有好几天了—— 我们谈论了时间的本质。 请不要变得不耐烦。 我们必须再来谈一下它。 我们说了时间就是过去，时间就是未来， 而那种未来就是此刻。 未来就是你此刻的的样子。对吗？ 如果我此刻是暴力的，那么未来，也就是明天， 上千个明天。 如果我此刻没有从根本上改变， 那么我的未来就是我的此刻——对吗？ 你们明白这件事了吗？ 请不要让我自言自语。 我们必须要一起来分享它， 它并不是我的真理和你的真理， 真理是无关个人，无路可循的。 这是一个事实，这是一个真理， 即所有的时间，过去、未来和现在， 都包含在此刻之中。 这是合乎逻辑的、理性的， 这从思维理性上来说是无可辩驳的。 但是你们也许并不喜欢它。 我们大多数人都活在喜欢与厌恶之中， 我们并不想要如实地去面对某个事物， 我们宁愿刻意略过那些事实。 因为我们是—— 我希望我们都是很认真的，至少今天早上能认真一点， 只是今天早上认真，那真是一个悲剧， 但至少在今天早上，让我们一起去观察一下这件事情： 那就是时间：过去、现在和未来都在此刻之中。
23:55 Suppose one is self-centred, which becomes very, very, very limited. That self-centredness may identify itself with something greater but it will still be self-centredness - right? You understand? Right sir, come with me, will you? Do we agree to that? If I identify myself with my country, with my nation, with my religion, with my superstitions and so on, that very identification is the continuation of self-centredness - right? I have only used a different set of words, but essentially this identifying process is self-centredness. Bien? Are we together in this? Right? It is a strange business this, isn't it? Please the speaker is not trying to convince you of anything. On the contrary, doubt, question, discuss, don't accept. But examine with a critical, sharp brain. Which is, one lives in disorder. That is a fact, you can't deny it. You may cover it up, you may run away from it, but we human beings live in disorder hating, loving, anxious, wanting security, knowing there is insecurity because we live constantly with the threat of war, and also the threat of death. So we live in disorder. Will time solve that disorder? You understand? We have lived on this earth, archaeologists and biologists, they say we have lived on this earth for forty five thousand years as human beings walking on two legs, during those long periods of evolution we are now what we are, in conflict, in disorder. Time has not solved that problem - right? This long duration has not solved that problem. So we have to - we may have misunderstood time. That is, we hope another forty thousand years, acquiring great deal of knowledge, ascending through knowledge, we will eventually come out without any conflict, without any disorder. Right? You understand this? So we may have misunderstood the meaning of time, because we rely on time. I have been this, or I am this, give me time to change. And we have had forty thousand or fifty thousand years of time and we are very primitive still. That kind of thinking in time may be wrong - you understand? There may be a new way of looking at it, a new approach to this whole problem. Which is, time is not a duration, a movement from this to that - right? You need time to go from here to your house and so on, but psychologically, inwardly, if you don't like psychology, inwardly, if you don't like that, inside the skin, we have accepted time as a duration in which we will eventually emerge as human beings who are extraordinarily sane, rational, healthy, no conflict. And time has not shown that. You have had forty thousand years and if you wait another forty thousand years, you will be exactly the same. This is logical. 假如某人是自我中心的， 那种自我中心会变得非常非常局限。 那种自我中心也许会将自己认同于某个更伟大的事物， 但它仍然将会是自我中心的——不是吗？ 你明白了吗？ 对吧？先生，和我一起前进，可以吗？ 我们是否同意这点？ 如果我将自己认同于我的国家， 认同于我的民族、我的宗教、我的迷信等等， 那种认同本身 就是在延续自我中心——不是吗？ 我只是使用了一套不同的词语， 但本质上来说，这种认同的过程就是自我中心的。好吗（法语）？ 我们都理解它了吗？ 对吧？ 这是一桩很奇怪的事情，不是吗？ 请注意，演讲者并没有试图说服你任何事情。 相反， 你要去怀疑、质疑、讨论，而不是接受。 你要带着一个批判性的、敏锐的头脑去检视。 那就是，我们生活在混乱之中。这是一个事实，你无法否认它。 你也许可以掩盖它，你也许可以逃离它， 但我们人类就是生活在混乱中的， 我们仇恨，我们爱，我们焦虑，我们想要安全感， 因为我们知道存在着不安全， 因为我们的生活中一直伴随着战争的威胁， 和死亡的威胁。 所以，我们生活在混乱之中。 那么时间能够解决这种混乱吗？ 你明白了吗？ 我们生活在这个地球上， 那些考古学家和生物学家说， 我们作为双腿直立行走的人类， 已经在这个地球上生活了有45000年了， 在经过了那些漫长的进化周期以后， 我们变成了我们现在的样子，充满冲突、充满混乱。 时间并没有解决这个问题——对吧？ 这段漫长的时期并没有解决我们的问题。 我们必须要——我们也许误解了时间。 也就是说，我们希望通过另一个40000年， 去获取大量的知识， 通过知识提升自己， 然后最终走出困境， 不再有任何冲突，不再有任何混乱。对吗？ 你理解它了吗？ 因此，我们或许误解了时间的意义， 因为我们依赖于时间。 我过去曾经是这样的，或者我现在是这样的，但请给我一点时间去改变。 而我们已经度过了40000年或50000年的时间， 但我们仍然是非常原始的人类。 那种基于时间的思考或许是错误的 ——你明白了吗？ 也许有一种全新的看待它的方式， 一种全新的、处理这整个问题的方法。 也就是说，时间并不是一段持续的时光， 一种从这里到那里的运动——不是吗？ 从这里去你的家，你需要时间，等等这类事情， 但是心理上、内在， 如果你不喜欢心理学，不喜欢‘内在’这种说法， 如果你不喜欢它的话，那我就用‘皮肤里面’吧， 我们已经接受了时间是一段持续的时光， 在其中，我们最终将会成为 这样的人类：无比健全、 理性、健康、没有冲突。 然而时间并没有证明这一点。 你们已经度过了40000年， 而如果你再等上另一个40000年的话， 你仍将会和现在完全一样。 这是合乎逻辑的。
30:35 So let's look at the whole meaning of time. Time is the past, the whole content of our consciousness and if you don't like the word 'consciousness', the whole world of reactions, which is the past. The past with all its memories, inherited, acquired, racial, environmental memories which we have gathered for thousands of years. And that time, that past, is now. You are the past - right? Agree? Right? You are the past, you are all the accumulated memory of the past, you are memory. That memory needs time to accumulate. And the future, tomorrow, and a thousand tomorrows, is what you are now - clear? Obviously. So the future is now. And is it possible - please understand this - we live in conflict and not allow the old time to interfere but this new sense of all time now. You understand what I am talking about? Do you understand this? I live in disorder - suppose I live in disorder, which I have become aware of. And I say to myself I will gradually work at it, think about it, go into it, which means all time, which is tomorrow - right? I will work at it, go into it, I will explore it, find out the cause of it - right? All that takes time - right? At least please agree to that, see that fact. And I see that is a false way of approaching time so I put that aside completely. Which means I am breaking - the fact is breaking the conditioning of the brain, which has accepted the old pattern of time. You see? You understand this? 所以让我们来看一下时间的全部意义。 时间就是过去，就是我们意识的全部内容， 而如果你不喜欢‘意识’这个词的话， 也可以说是‘全部的反应’， 它就是过去。 过去及其所有的记忆， 先天继承下来的、后天获得的、种族的、环境的记忆， 它们是我们成千上万年以来所收集起来的。 而那个时间，那个过去，就是此刻。 你就是所有的过去——对吧？ 同意吗？ 对吧？你就是过去， 你就是所有积累起来的过去的记忆， 你就是记忆。 积累那种记忆需要时间。 而未来，明天，上千个明天， 它们就是你现在的样子——清楚了吗？这是显而易见的。 因此，未来就是此刻。 而我们是否可能——请理解这一点—— 当我们生活在冲突中时， 不要让旧有的时间模式干预进来， 而是有这种‘所有时间都是此刻’的全新感觉。 你们明白我在说些什么吗？ 你理解它吗？ 我生活在混乱之中——假设我生活在混乱之中， 而我已经意识到了这种混乱。 于是我对自己说， 我会逐步地来对付它，思考它，探究它， 这些都意味着全部的时间，也就是明天——对吧？ 我将会来对付它，探究它， 我将会来探索它，去找出它的原因——对吗？ 所有这一切都需要花费时间——不是吗？ 请你们至少同意这一点吧，看到这个事实。 而我也看到了，这是一种错误的看待时间的方式， 于是我彻底舍弃了它。 这意味着我正在打破—— 这个事实正在打破头脑的局限， 头脑已经接受了那种旧有的时间模式。 你明白了吗？你理解它了吗？
34:22 I can't go on about it if you don't understand it, it is your business. I can't keep on repeating this, it rather becomes futile if you don't see it after many explanations. So as I have put aside the old way of thinking in terms of time, I now look at time as it is. All time is now. Either I change completely now, which is to uncondition the brain, which has been accustomed to the old time, and I break that because I see the fact and the falseness of it. And in that very perception I have brought - there has been a radical change, which is, I must in the very perception act instantly. You understand this? I act without time, which is the thinking process doesn't take place. Vous avez compris? Oh, gosh! 我不能再继续讲这个东西了。 如果你还是不理解它，这是你的事情了。 我不能总是不停地去重复这个东西， 这完全是徒劳无用的， 因为在经过了这么多解释之后，你还是没有明白它。 所以，由于我已经抛弃了那种旧有的、基于时间的思考方式， 因此我现在就能如实地来看待时间了。即所有的时间都是此刻。 要么我此刻就彻底改变， 也就是消除头脑的局限 ——头脑已经习惯了那种旧有的时间模式， 而我打破了那种模式， 因为我看到了事实真相，和那种模式的错误之处。 就在那种洞察之中 我就带来了——那时就会有一次根本性的改变， 也就是，我必须在那种洞察之中，立即行动。 你理解这一点吗？ 我的行动中是没有时间的， 也就是说，思考的过程并没有发生。 你明白了吗？（法语）哦，天哪！
35:49 I will go into it. It is very fascinating this, if you go into it. Time - thought is time - right? Agree? Do you see that fact, that thought is time? Because thought is the accumulated response of memory. That memory has been accumulating through time, that memory is the outcome of knowledge. To accumulate knowledge you need time - right? You need time to accumulate knowledge. You are not paying attention, sir. I don't want to waste your time or my time. So please kindly pay attention, if you want to. 我将会来深入它。 如果你深入它的话，它是非常令人着迷的。 时间——思想就是时间——对吗？ 你同意吗？你是否看到了这个事实，即思想就是时间？ 因为思想就是积累下来的记忆的反应。 那种记忆已经通过时间而积累起来了， 那种记忆就是知识的产物。 要积累知识，你需要时间——对吗？ 你需要时间来积累知识。 先生，你并没有专心听。 我并不想要浪费你的时间或我的时间。 所以如果你想要听的话，那就请专心聆听。
37:34 We said time is necessary to accumulate memory. Time is necessary to accumulate knowledge and knowledge comes from the accumulation of experience. Right? Experience is limited, so knowledge is limited, and memory is limited, so thought is limited. Now I said thought is time. And if we exercise time, which is thought, to change what I am now, it will be futile - you understand? But if I see - if there is perception, not I see, if there is a perception of the fact that all time is contained in the now, then what takes place? You understand the proposition? I am violent, I live in disorder and I perceive that disorder. And I also see the fact, the truth, that all time is now, so my perception must be so acute, so clear, and that clarity is not the product of time. So we must discuss what is perception. What is it to see clearly? Not only ourselves as we are, but also to see what is happening clearly in the world. What is happening clearly in the world is this extension of division - nations, religions, sects, gurus, and so on, the whole lot of them, politically, religiously, though they talk about peace, unity, they want them all to join their unity - you understand? I won't go into all that. 我们说了，要积累记忆，时间的必需的。 我们需要有时间才能积累知识， 而知识来自于经验的积累。 不是吗？但经验是局限的，所以知识也是局限的， 记忆是局限的，因此思想也是局限的。 而现在，我说思想就是时间。 而要是我们使用时间——也就是思想—— 来改变我现在的模样， 这将会是徒劳无用的——你理解了吗？ 但如果我看到了——如果有了一种洞察， 不是我看到了，如果洞察到了那个事实， 即所有的时间都包含在此刻之中， 那么会发生什么呢？你明白这个待解决的问题吗？ 我是暴力的，我生活在混乱之中， 而我看到了这种混乱。 而我也看到了这个事实，这个真相，即所有的时间都是此刻， 因此我的洞察必须极度敏锐，极其清晰， 而那种清晰并不是时间的结果。 所以，我们必须来讨论一下，什么是洞察？ 什么才是看清楚了？ 不只是如实地看清楚我们自己， 同样也要看清楚这个世界上正在发生的事情。 很显然，这个世界正在发生着的是 不断延伸扩展的分裂 ——国家的分裂、宗教的分裂、教派的分裂、古鲁的分裂等等，无数这类分裂， 尽管人们在政治上和宗教上谈论着和平与团结， 但他们都想要所有人和他们团结一致 ——你理解了吗？我就不深入所有这些了。
40:35 So outwardly there is this immense disorder, and the ultimate expression of that disorder is war, killing each other. And we also live in disorder. And that disorder is brought about through time, we have lived with it for centuries, so time in the old sense is not going to solve it. So what is perception? Can you see something very clearly if you have prejudice? Obviously not. Right? If you are personal - I get hurt, please don't tell me anything. My opinions are so strong, I have thought this out and I stick to what I have thought out. All these factors, which are personal, not objective, clear, they prevent perception. Right? It is like putting on coloured glasses. Your lenses, photographic lenses, they take the picture in and print it on the film, but if the film retains the pictures, it cannot see any more - right? It cannot take any more pictures. Have you understood this? It is a simple fact. So what we do is retain it, which is you can't see any more. But if you retain, look at it and put it back, finish with it. That means you have to have a very clear, strong active brain, so that there is no personal prejudice, no attachment to a thing. When there is such perception, that perception is not a factor of time, and therefore when there is disorder you see it instantly, the cause, and all the rest of it is division, there is the ending of it immediately, which does not mean that it will continue again and pop up the next day. When once you see a danger, a poisonous snake, you don't play with it. That is the end of it. But we don't see the danger because we are so prejudiced, we are so narrow-minded, our own concern. 因此外在上，我们有着这种极度的混乱， 而这种混乱的最终极的表现便是战争， 彼此杀戮。 而我们同样也生活在混乱之中。 这种混乱是经由时间而带来的， 无数世纪以来，我们一直伴随着它而生活， 因此那种旧有意义上的时间无法解决混乱。 因此，什么是洞察呢？ 如果你有偏见，你还能够清楚地看到某个事物吗？ 很显然不能。对吧？ 如果你非常个人化 ——我会受到伤害，请不要告诉我任何东西。 我的观点是如此坚定， 是我努力想出了它， 而我会坚持我所想出来的东西。 所有这些要素都是个人化的， 它们并非是客观和清晰的， 它们阻碍了洞察。 对吗？ 这就像是戴上了有色眼镜。 你的镜头，摄影的镜头， 它们拍下了画面，然后将它印在胶卷上， 但如果那个胶卷上还保留着画面影像， 镜头就无法看到任何画面了——对吧？它无法再拍摄更多画面了。 你理解这一点了吗？这是一个简单的事实。 所以，我们所做的事情是保留了它， 也就是你无法再看到更多东西了。 但如果你保留了它，观赏了它，然后把它放回去，并结束掉它的话。 这意味着你必须要有一个非常清晰、极其活跃的头脑， 由此便不会有个人的偏见， 不会执著于某个东西。 当有了这样一种洞察后， 那种洞察将不会是一种时间的要素， 因此当有了混乱以后，你立即就看到了它， 它的原因，以及等等这一切，都是分裂， 然后这些东西立刻就结束了， 它的意思并不是说， 它还会再次继续下去，第二天又冒出来了。 一旦你看到了一个危险之物，比如一条毒蛇， 你不会与之玩耍。这件事立即就结束了。 但是我们并没有看到那个危险， 因为我们是如此地充满偏见，如此的思维狭隘， 只关心自己的东西。
44:35 So disorder can only end not tomorrow, now. As you are sitting there, observe your own disorder, see whether you can see that disorder, perceive it clearly, with all the ramifications of that disorder. When you perceive it completely there is the end of it. And that perception is not possible if you are prejudiced, if you are personal. 所以混乱只能在此刻结束，而不是在明天。 当你坐在那里的时候，请观察你自己的混乱， 看看你是否能够观察到那种混乱， 清楚地看到它， 看到这种混乱所有的分支和衍生物。 当你完全地洞察到它时，它就会结束了。 而如果你有偏见，如果你是个人化的， 那么就不可能有这种洞察了。
45:25 And we ought also to talk over together the question of fear. I am sure this will interest you. What we have said may be what you may consider, all that has been said, really very intellectual. I know you will say this. It is not intellectual. Intellect is necessary, as emotions are necessary, but when one predominates the other then the trouble begins. 而我们同样也应该来一起讨论下关于恐惧的问题。 我相信你们会对它很感兴趣。 你也许会认为我们所讲的这些东西， 所有那些讲过的东西是非常智性化的东西。 我知道你会这么说。 但它并不是智性化的东西。 智力是必需的， 就像情感是必需的一样。 然而当其中一者支配了另一者之后，麻烦就会开始了。
46:12 So we ought to talk over together fear. Together - you understand? Explore together what is the cause, what is the nature, whether it can end completely. Or must we carry on for the rest of the human existence living in fear? If one is aware at all, conscious, we have many, many fears. Fear of darkness, fear of living, fear of public opinion, fear what my neighbour might say, fear of my wife or husband or the girl or the man, fear of insecurity, fear when you have security economically, fear that you might lose it, fear - we have got so many fears. Why haven't we solved these fears? You have solved the problem of war that is to continue war, and you have applied your brain to prepare for war. All the vast generals on both sides, or a thousand sides, they are all preparing for war, plans, submarines, airplanes, all the rest of it. They have exercised their brain to produce all that. And why hasn't that same brain applied, apply to this enormous sense of fear man has from the beginning of days. Why? Which means why have you and the speaker not gone into this question seriously, as you do go very seriously when you are hungry, when you are ambitious, when you want more money, you work at it. Why have we not gone into this question of fear? The psychologists, the therapeutists, have explained the causes of it, in different ways. If we could put aside all that they have said, because after all it is all what they have said, it may be merely verbal. They might be as scared as you - probably they are! I met several of them, I know they are scared like you, about something or other. And why have we not solved this question? And is it possible to end the fear? We are going to go into that. Apply not only your feelings, your emotions and your brain to work at this, not escape from it, not try to rationalise it but to see why we are incapable, or allowed ourselves to become incapable. 所以我们应该一起来讨论一下恐惧。 我们一起——你明白吗？ 一起来探索 它的原因是什么？ 它的本质是什么？ 它是否可以彻底结束？ 还是说我们必须要继续背负着它，在余生中生活在恐惧里？ 如果我们真的有那么一点觉察，有点意识的话， 我们会发现自己有着很多很多的恐惧。 恐惧黑暗，恐惧生活， 恐惧公众舆论，恐惧我的邻居可能会说些什么， 恐惧我的妻子或丈夫，或者恐惧女朋友或男朋友， 对不安全的恐惧， 而当你拥有了经济上的安全感时， 你又会害怕自己也许会失去它， 恐惧——我们有着如此多的恐惧。 为什么我们未能解决这些恐惧呢？ 你解决战争这个问题的做法，实际上延续了战争， 你们把自己的头脑用在了备战上。 双方阵营，或上千个阵营中的无数将军们， 他们都在准备着战争，各种计划、潜水艇、飞机， 等等这一切。 他们已经运用了自己的头脑去制造出了所有这些东西。 但为什么他们没有运用同样的这个头脑， 运用它去解决这种巨大的恐惧感呢？ 人类从最初的时候起就有了这种恐惧感。 为什么？ 它的意思就是，你和演讲者为什么 没有认真地来探究这个问题呢？ 就像当你饥饿时， 当你野心勃勃时，当你想要拥有更多金钱时，你会变得非常认真， 你会为之努力。 为什么我们还没有去深入探究关于恐惧的问题？ 那些心理学家，那些临床医学家 已经解释过了恐惧的原因， 以各种不同的方式解释了它。 而我们是否可以将他们说过的一切都抛弃， 因为毕竟这一切都只是他们说过的东西， 那也许仅仅只是口头上的东西。 他们或许和你一样害怕——他们可能就是如此！ 我曾经见过一些此类人士，我知道他们就和你们一样恐惧， 他们会害怕这样或那样的东西。 而为什么我们未能解决这个问题？ 是否可能结束恐惧？我们将会来探讨一下它。 不仅要运用你的感觉，还要运用你的情感和你的大脑， 去努力探究它， 不要逃避它，也不试图把它合理化， 而是去看看为什么我们没有能力解决它， 或者允许我们自己变得没有能力。
51:11 What is fear? And you know when there is fear, the nature of it, how it throbs, how your physical organism shrinks, how your brain becomes addled, almost paralysed. Don't you know all this? Am I describing something abnormal? It is a fact. It affects your sleep, it affects your daily life, it brings suspicion, anxiety, depression and you cling to something and hope that won't change, and that won't bring fear. Either we deal with the root of fear, or we trim the branches of fear. Right? Right, sir? Which do you want to do? Trim the branches of fear - please one is asking this seriously, don't neglect what the speaker is asking. Do you want to deal with the branches of fear? There are a thousand fears. Like a lovely tree - a tree which is the most beautiful thing, one of the most beautiful things on earth, it has got many branches, many leaves; likewise fear, which is so ugly, it has also got many branches, many leaves, many expressions. Do you want to deal with that, the expressions, the surface, outside? Or do we go together into the root of it? Personally, the speaker doesn't want to trim the branches, which is so futile. So let's together find out what is the cause of fear. We know all the expressions of fear. So if we can find the root of it, the expressions can wither away. So what is the cause, or causation of fear. 什么是恐惧？ 你知道，当有了恐惧，恐惧的自然本性，它是如何带来悸动， 你的身体是如何紧缩的， 你的大脑是如何变得混乱不堪、几乎瘫痪的。 你难道不知道所有这些吗？ 难道我是在描述某种不正常的东西吗？ 它是一个事实。 它会影响到你的睡眠，影响到你的日常生活， 它带来了怀疑、焦虑、抑郁， 而你紧紧抓住某个东西， 希望它不会有所改变，不会带来恐惧。 要么我们去处理恐惧的根源， 要么我们只是去修剪一下恐惧的枝条。对吧？ 对吗？先生？你想要选择怎么做？ 是去修剪恐惧的枝条吗？ ——请注意，某人是非常认真严肃地问这个问题， 不要无视演讲者正在问的东西。 你是想要去处理那些恐惧的枝条吗？ 我们有着上千种恐惧。 它就像是一棵可爱的树 ——树是最美丽的事物， 是这个地球上最美丽的事物之一， 它有着无数的枝条，无数的叶子； 恐惧也是一样，但它是如此的丑陋， 它也有无数的分支，无数的叶子，无数的表现。 你是想要去处理这些吗？ 去处理它的种种表现，那些表面的东西，外在的东西？ 还是我们要一起去探究它的根源？ 就我个人而言，演讲者并不想要去修剪那些枝条， 这是徒劳无益的。 所以让我们一起去找出恐惧的原因是什么。 我们都清楚所有那些恐惧的表现。 所以如果我们可以找到恐惧的根源，那么恐惧的表现便会消失了。 所以恐惧的源头或原因是什么？
54:40 If one asks you that question: what is the cause? would you answer it? The cause? Or do you expect someone to explain the cause of it? The explanation is not the fact. Right? You may paint a marvellous picture of the mountain, hung in all the museums of the world, but that picture is not the mountain. The word 'fear' is not fear - right? But the word 'fear' may evoke fear. So we are not dealing with the description, with the word, but the depth and the strength of fear. And we are trying to find out together, not I explain, you accept but together find out for ourselves so that it is you discover it, therefore it is your truth not somebody else's truth. You can't live with someone else's truth, you can only live with truth. So what is the cause of it? The cause of it - I will go into it. Is it thought? Is it time? Is it thought? Let's look at it. I am living - one is living now. And thought says, 'I might die tomorrow', or 'I might lose my job', 'I have my money in the bank, but the bank may fail', 'I am all right with my wife but she may turn to somebody tomorrow', 'I have printed a book and I hope it will be a great success', which means fear. 'I want to be known' which is the most childish thing in the world. 'I want to be known and somebody is known already much more than I am'. So there is this thinking, that is, thinking I might lose, I might gain, I might be lonely. So thinking is one of the factors of fear - right? I am all right with my friends, with my wife and my children but I also know, I have experienced this sense of desperate loneliness. Don't you know it? A sense of deep frightening loneliness. And I am frightened. Have you ever examined what loneliness is? Why it has its cause? Don't you know, don't you have this feeling of loneliness? Am I talking something, saying something abnormal? Eh? You must all be saints. Sir, what is this loneliness which causes - you understand, sir? which causes attachment, holding on to something however illusory, however false, however meaningless. I hold on to my wife. I hold on to my club, to my god, to my ritual, to my friends, because if I let go, I am utterly lonely. Have you ever gone into that question: why human beings are so frightened of loneliness? They may live with a group, they may follow some guru and all the rest of that nonsense but strip them of all their decoration and they are what they are, lonely. Why? Why are they, what is loneliness? Not to have any relationship with anything, with nature, with another, with the friend or woman or the man with whom I have lived, all that somehow has withdrawn, I am left utterly empty, lonely - why? What is this feeling of utter despair? I will explain but the explanation is not the fact. The word is not the thing. If that becomes very clear, that the word is not the thing, you Mr. Smith is not Mr. Smith, the word is not you, when you say, 'My wife', or 'My husband', that is - you understand? I am glad you understand that at least. 如果有人问了你这个问题：恐惧的原因是什么？ 你会回答它吗？ 它的原因？ 还是说你期望有人会来解释它的原因？ 解释并非事实。对吗？ 你或许可以画一幅描绘高山的精美绝伦的图画， 把它挂在全世界各地的博物馆中， 但是那幅画并非高山。 ‘恐惧’这个词并不是恐惧——对吧？ 但是‘恐惧’这个词也许会引发恐惧。 因此我们并不是在处理关于它的描述， 处理文字词语， 而是在处理恐惧的深层意义和它的力量。 而我们正一起试着去发现， 不是我来解释，然后你接受， 而是一起亲自去发现， 这样就是你自己发现了它， 因此它就会成为你的真理，而不是别人的真理。 你不能依靠别人的真理来生活， 你只能依靠真理而活。 所以，恐惧的原因是什么？ 它的原因是什么——我将会来探究它。 是思想吗？ 是时间吗？ 是思想吗？让我们来看一下它。 我生活着——某人此刻正生活着。 而思想说，‘明天我也许会死去’， 或者‘我也许会失去我的工作’， ‘我的钱都存在了银行里，但银行可能会倒闭’， ‘我和我的妻子处得很好， 但她明天也许会去找别人’， ‘我出版了一本书，而我希望它能大获成功’， 这也意味着恐惧。 ‘我想要出名’ 这是世界上最幼稚的事情。 ‘我想要出名， 而某人现在已经远远比我更出名了’。 所以我们会有这类思考， 也就是，觉得自己也许会失去， 我也许会获得，我也许会孤单。 所以思考就是造成恐惧的因素之一——对吧？ 我与我的朋友、我的妻子和我的孩子相处得很好， 但我同样也知道， 我也经历了那种令人绝望的孤独感。 你们难道不知道它吗？ 一种深刻的、令人恐惧的孤独感。 我感到很害怕。 你有没有检视过孤独是什么？它的起因为何存在？ 你难道不知道吗？你难道没有感到过这种孤独吗？ 我是在谈论着一些不正常的东西，说着一些不正常的东西吗？ 嗯？你们肯定都是圣人吧。 先生，这种孤独是什么呢？它导致了——你明白吗？先生？ 它导致了依赖，让我们执著于某个事物， 不管那个事物是多么的虚幻，多么的错误，多么的没有意义。 我执著于我的妻子。 我执著于我的社团、我的上帝、我的宗教仪式、 我的朋友们， 因为如果我放手的话，我就彻底孤独了。 你是否曾经探究过这个问题： 为什么人类是如此的害怕孤独？ 他们也许会去过群体生活， 他们也许会跟随某个古鲁，和所有这些荒谬之事， 但是当你剥去他们所有的装饰物后， 他们就会回到自己的真实模样——也就是孤独了。 为什么？他们为什么？什么是孤独？ 与任何事物都失去了联系， 失去了与自然、与他人、 与朋友的联系，或者失去了和那个我与之生活的男人或女人的联系， 所有这些联系不知怎么的都退散了， 留下我一个人，感到彻底的空虚、孤独——为什么？ 这种彻底绝望的感觉是什么？ 我将会来解释它， 但是解释并非事实。 词语文字并不是它们所描述的东西。 这一点是否已经非常清楚了， 即词语并不是那个东西， 你，史密斯先生并不是史密斯先生， 这个称呼并不是你， 当你说，‘我的妻子’，或者‘我的丈夫’的时候， 它们——你们明白了吗？ 我很高兴你们至少已经明白这个了。
1:02:46 So explanation is not the reality, the truth. So look at it, let's look at it without the word, without the word 'loneliness'. Can you do it? To look at that feeling without using the word 'lonely', or 'despair'. Loneliness comes when all our days are spent in self-centredness. The very activity of self-centredness is producing loneliness - right? Because it is narrowing my whole, or the vast extraordinary existence of life into a small little me. And when one realises that there is that feeling, 'My god, how lonely I am'. And to face it, to be with it completely, not move away from it, then there is a radical change. 所以解释并不是事实和真相。 所以去看一下孤独，让我们去看一下它，而不要有任何文字词语， 没有‘孤独’这个词的介入。 你能够这样做吗？ 去观察那种感受， 但不去使用‘孤独’或‘绝望’这些词语。 当我们所有的日子都花费在了自我中心上时，孤独就会出现了。 自我中心的活动本身 就是在制造孤独——不是吗？ 因为它将我整体的内容， 或者极其浩瀚的生命存在， 缩小为了一个渺小卑微的‘我’。 而当一个人意识到了它之后，他就会有这样的感觉， ‘我的天哪，我是多么的孤独啊’。 去面对它， 完全地与之共存，不要离开它， 那时就会有一种根本性的改变了。
1:04:08 So we must come back to this question of fear. We said thought is one of the causes of fear, obviously. I am thinking about death because I am an old man, or young, or you see some hearse going by with all the flowers, horses, cars. What a civilised country this is, with all the noise of death. And I see thought is one of the causes of death, one of the causes of fear - right? Do you see this? An obvious fact, right? Right, sirs? And also time is a factor of fear - right? I am afraid what might happen. I am afraid of something I have done which others are using as a blackmail, you follow? I am afraid of that. So time and thought are the root of fear. Time and thought. There is no division between thought and time, thought is time - right? 所以我们必须回到关于恐惧的问题。 我们说了，思想是导致恐惧的原因之一， 这是很显然的。 我在想着死亡这件事， 因为我年事已高，或者我还很年轻，或者你看到了灵车经过， 所有那些花朵、马匹和车辆。 这是一个多么文明的国家啊， 所有那些丧事的噪音。 我看到思想是导致死亡的原因之一， 啊，应该是导致恐惧的的原因之一——对吧？ 你明白这一点了吗？这是一个显而易见的事实，对吧？ 对吗？先生们？ 而时间也是导致恐惧的因素之一——不是吗？ 我害怕那些可能会发生的事情。 我害怕自己曾经做过的某些事 ——别人或许会利用它来敲诈勒索我，你明白了吗？ 我对此感到害怕。 所以时间和思想是恐惧的根源。 时间和思想。 时间和思想之间是没有分割的， 思想就是时间——对吗？
1:06:07 Now the problem is - I am sorry, I won't use the word 'problem'. The question is: thought is necessary, time is necessary - right? To go from here to there time is necessary. And thought is necessary to drive a car, to take a bus, take the train. Thought is necessary, time is necessary at that level. Right? Now I am saying as thought and time are the root of fear, is thought and time necessary? Vous avez compris? There it is necessary. But psychologically is thought and time necessary? Right? Is it? As long as time and thought, if you think are necessary, in the psychological world, in the world of the self, in the world of psyche, in the world of inside the skin, then you will be perpetually in fear - right? If you perceive that, if there is perception that thought is the root of fear and time, perception, not acceptance, then thought and time are necessary at the physical level, inwardly it is not necessary, therefore you are watching then. You are watching, the brain is actively watching itself every minute to see that thought and time do not enter into its realm. This requires - you understand? - this requires great attention, awareness, so that the brain, which has accumulated fear for centuries, or for one day, that brain sees where it is necessary, where it is not necessary, therefore it is watching like a hawk so that thought and time doesn't enter into the whole process of living. You understand? This is real discipline, this is learning. As we explained the other day, discipline means, the root meaning of that word is disciple, the disciple is one who learns, who is learning all the time, he never says, 'I have learnt' and stays. The brain is watching itself all the time so that it is active, so there is no time for it to move or to change. You have understood something? It is now quarter to twelve, we must stop. 而现在，难题（problem）在于 ——对不起，我还是不用‘难题’这个词了。 问题（question）在于：思想是必需的， 时间是必需的——对吧？ 要从这里去那里，你需要时间。 而思想也是必需的，你需要利用它来驾驶汽车， 乘公共汽车，乘火车。 在这些层面上，思想是必需的，时间也是必需的。 对吧？ 而现在，我在说的是 由于思想和时间是恐惧的根源， 那么思想和时间是否是必需的呢？ 你明白了吗？（法语）在那个层面，它们是必需的。 但是心理上，是否思想和时间是必需的？ 对吗？它是必需的吗？ 只要时间和思想……如果你认为它们是必需的 ——在心理上的世界，在自我的世界， 在精神的世界，在皮肤里面的世界中是必需的， 那么你就永远会处于恐惧之中 ——不是吗？ 如果你洞察到了这一点， 如果你洞察到 思想就是恐惧的根源，时间也是， 是洞察到它，而不是接受它， 那么思想和时间在物质层面是必需的， 但是，就内在而言，它们不是必需的， 因此，那时你就是在观察。 你在观察着， 头脑每一分钟都在积极主动地观察着它自己， 以确保思想和时间不会进入到它的领域中。 这需要——你明白吗？—— 这需要全神贯注，需要觉察， 由此那个头脑 ——头脑经由无数个世纪， 或者经由一天的时间，已经积累起了那些恐惧， 那个头脑就会看到思想和时间在哪里是必需的， 在哪里则是不必要的。 因此它就像一只鹰一样地在观察着， 由此思想和时间 便不会介入到生活的整个过程中。 你明白了吗？ 这才是真正的纪律（discipline），这就是学习。 正如我们前几天所解释的， 纪律的意思是，这个词的词根意思是‘学徒’， 而学徒指的是一个正在学习的人， 他一直都在不断学习着， 他从来不会说，‘我已经学会了’然后停滞不前。 头脑一刻不停地在观察着它自己，因此它是积极活跃的， 所以它没有时间去移动，或者去改变。 你是否明白了一些东西？ 现在已经11点45分了， 我们必须到此为止了。
1:10:18 You see, sirs and ladies, our difficulty is, we listen to a lot of things, we know a great deal, we have searched, asked, read, we have sought the advice of others, we have wandered the earth to find out, to find out what it is all about, but we never ask of ourselves, we never demand of ourselves serious, deep questions. We always ask superficial questions. And so we make our life very superficial. But if you asked questions, questions that demand answers from yourself so that you exercise your brain, your feelings, your whole attention is given to that question, then you begin to discover for yourself without being told by anybody, including the speaker. And so when there is freedom from fear you don't want gods, you don't want anything from anybody in the world, then you are really a free man. 你瞧，先生们、女士们， 我们的困难之处在于，我们听过了很多东西， 我们也知道很多东西， 我们已经寻找过、询问过、阅读过， 我们寻求他人的建议忠告， 我们走遍了这个世界去寻找， 去搞清楚这一切究竟是怎么回事， 但是我们从来没有要求过自己， 我们从来没有要求自己去认真地、深刻地质疑。 我们总是在问一些肤浅的问题。 因此我们把自己的生活也变得非常肤浅了。 然而如果你去问那些问题， 那些问题需要的是来自于你自己的答案， 由此你便可以运用你的头脑、你的感受、 你全部的注意力，投入到那个问题中去， 然后你会开始自己发现它， 而无需任何人来告诉你，包括演讲者本人。 因此，当你摆脱掉恐惧以后， 你就不会想要上帝， 你不会想要世界上任何人所给予的任何东西了， 那时你就是一个真正自由的人。
1:12:39 May I get up please? 请问我可以起身了吗？