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SA84T5 - 为什么我们要带着未解决的问题而生活？
瑞士，萨嫩，第五次公开演讲，1984年7月17日



0:24 May we continue where we left off on Sunday? 我们可以接着星期天结束的地方继续讲下去吗？
0:38 We have been talking about various issues and problems of life, like fear, relationship and the conflicts that one has in our daily life. Why is it, if one asks oneself, that we have always problems - problems of relationship, economic problems, social problems, individual problems? We seem to be living with so many, many problems. and we never are able to solve any of them. In the solution of one we seem to bring about many other problems. Until we die we seem to be living with so many issues, so many unresolved crises and so on. If one is at all aware, at all concerned with our daily life, can one ask why we have these problems? Why we live with so many issues, so many demands, so many unresolved problems all our life? Is it our brains are conditioned to problems? From childhood, through school, college, university, if one is going through that process, every level of education has conditioned the brain to problems: mathematical problems, problems of skill, problems of various disciplines that one goes through. Is it that our brains are conditioned from the very beginning of our life? We have problems, and the brain has been conditioned to resolving problems - right? So our brain is conditioned to problems - right? We are talking over together, the speaker is not instructing. The speaker is not informing, so this is not a lecture but rather we are together taking a journey, taking a journey, not only as we have done in the outward world, but also deeply inwardly, psychologically And to take that journey we must both go together. So you are also taking that journey, not just the speaker. So we are together going into these questions. So the speaker is not an authority but rather as two friends talking over their many, many problems of their life. And that is what we are doing together. 我们已经谈论了生活中的各类问题和难题， 比如恐惧 关系 以及我们在日常生活中的冲突。 如果我们可以问一下自己的话，为什么 我们总是会有各种问题？ 关系的问题，经济的问题， 社会的问题，个人的问题？ 我们似乎是带着无数的问题在生活着。 而我们从未能够解决任何问题。 当一个问题解决后， 我们似乎又带来了很多其他的问题。 除非直到我们死去，我们似乎总是带着如此多的问题， 如此多的未解决的危机等等在生活着。 如果我们真的有点儿觉察， 有点儿关心自己日常生活的话， 我们能否问一下：为什么我们会有这些问题？ 为什么我们要带着如此多的问题， 如此多的查问， 如此多的未解决的难题而生活，一生都是如此？ 是不是因为我们的头脑被问题所制约了？ 从我们小时候起，我们经历了学校学习、高校、大学 ——如果你经历通过了这个过程的话， 每一个层级的教育 都让头脑被问题所制约了： 数学学习的问题，技能学习的问题， 各种科目的问题，我们需要面对经受这些问题。 是不是我们的头脑 从我们一出生起 就已经被局限了？ 我们有着各种问题， 而头脑则一直被局限着去解决那些问题——对吗？ 所以我们的头脑被问题所制约了——对吧？ 我们正在一起讨论它， 演讲者并没有在教导你们。 演讲者并没有在告知你们什么， 因此这并不是一次讲课， 而是我们一起踏上一段旅途， 踏上一段旅途， 不仅仅是像我们在外在世界中所做的那样， 同样也是在内心深处，在心理上踏上旅途， 而要踏上这段旅途，我们双方必须携手同行。 所以你也踏上了这段旅途， 而不只是演讲者。 所以我们是一起在探究这些问题。 因此演讲者并不是一个权威， 我们更像是两个朋友， 在谈论着自己生活中无数的问题。 这就是我们正在一起做的事情。
7:04 We are asking why we have never resolved any of our problems? Is it because our brain itself is conditioned to the resolution of problems, And therefore the brain itself is not free of problems? It is only a brain that is free that can solve problems. But if the brain itself is conditioned and therefore it itself has become a problem, therefore whatever problems arise it never solves them. 我们在问，为什么我们从未能解决自己的任何问题？ 是不是因为我们的头脑本身 受制于问题的解决， 因此头脑本身并没有摆脱掉那些问题？ 只有一个自由的头脑才能够去解决问题。 但如果头脑本身是局限的， 那么它本身就会变成一个问题， 因此无论出现了什么问题，它都永远无法解决它们。
8:09 And we are asking why? Why is the brain - or if you do not like the word 'brain', why is it our consciousness, which we shall talk about presently, why is our consciousness so entangled, so many issues, and when our consciousness, which is what we are, is such a complex entity, then that very complexity cannot solve anything. Right? It is a simple fact. And we are asking can that consciousness, can that psyche be ever free? Because life has problems. Life is constantly throwing up problems and if the brain, consciousness, our whole nature, is not free, then we shall never be able to resolve any problems. Clear? Are we listening to each other? Do you, if I may ask as a friend asking you, do you ever listen completely, wholly, as you now are sitting there, or walking in a wood together, do you ever listen wholly, or only partially? If one is listening partially, in a state of distraction, then you do not give your whole attention to listening. Do you ever listen completely to your wife or husband? Or you already know what she is going to say, or he is going to say? Because we have lived with her, or him, and so on and so you have got used to her voice, or his voice, his usage of words, his repetitive responses, so you almost know what he is going to say before he begins to speak. Are we like that? Will you listen to the speaker? Not that you have heard of him before, but for the first time you are listening to him - have you ever tried it? To listen to a bird warbling in the night, or in the early morning? Have you ever listened to the whisper of leaves? Have you listened or looked at the clouds floating in a blue sky? 而我们在问：这是为什么？ 为什么那个头脑—— 或者如果你们不喜欢‘头脑’这个词的话， 为什么我们的意识 ——我们过一会儿将会来谈论意识—— 为什么我们的意识会如此地陷入于混乱中， 有着如此多的问题， 而当我们的意识——我们的意识就是我们本身—— 是一个如此复杂的存在体时， 那么那种复杂性本身是无法解决任何问题的。 对吧？这是一个简单的事实。 而我们在问：那种意识， 那种心智（psyche）能否获得自由？ 因为生活中有着很多问题。 生活就是不断地产生各种问题， 而如果头脑，意识，我们的全部本性，没有获得自由， 那么，我们就永远无法解决任何问题了。清楚了吗？ 我们在彼此聆听对方吗？ 你是否——如果允许我问一下的话，就像有个朋友问你一样—— 你是否完全地、全然地聆听过？ 就像当你现在坐在那里，或者与朋友一起漫步在树林里时， 你是否曾完全地聆听过，还是说只是部分地聆听？ 如果我们只是部分地在聆听， 处于一种分心的状态， 那么你就不会全神贯注地去聆听了。 你是否曾完整完全地聆听过你的妻子或丈夫？ 还是说你已经知道妻子将要说什么了， 或者丈夫将要说什么了？ 因为我们和妻子、丈夫等等生活在一起， 所以你已经习惯了妻子或丈夫的声音， 他讲话的用词习惯，他重复化的反应， 所以在他开口之前，你几乎已经知道了他将会说些什么。 我们是这样的吗？ 你会聆听演讲者的话语吗？ 并不是因为你以前曾经听说过他， 而是如同首次聆听他一样 ——你是否尝试过这样去做？ 去聆听一只鸟儿 在夜晚或清晨的温柔鸣叫？ 你是否曾经聆听过树叶的飒飒之声？ 你是否聆听或者观赏过 漂浮在蓝天中的云朵？
12:54 So listening is an art. It is a great art. When you listen so attentively, fully, there is no barrier because you are then giving your whole attention to what you are listening to? It is only when there is inattention, when there is only a partial listening, then communication between you and another ceases. 因此，聆听是一门艺术。 它是一门伟大的艺术。 当你如此聚精会神地、完全地聆听时， 那时就没有任何障碍了， 因为那时你正全神贯注于 你所聆听的东西。 只有当有了漫不经心， 当只是在部分地聆听时， 那时你和他人之间的交流才会终止。
13:47 So can we learn together the art of listening? The art of listening. The art of not only hearing with the outer ear but also listening to the inward ear. Not only to yourself, to hear your own reactions, your own responses, but also listen to what another is saying, so that your own reactions and what you are hearing coincide, there is no division. That's a great art to learn. When you listen to classical music, Beethoven, or Mozart, or Bach and so on, when you so completely listen, not remembering that you have heard it before, and going back to all the romantic pleasures that you have had when you listened, but actually listen now. That, as we said, is an art, like seeing is an art; seeing the clouds, the train going by, the beauty of a great cloud. When there is that total perception of beauty there is no self intervening, the self, the consciousness with all its problems. So where there is the art of listening and the art of seeing, this beauty, or the sound of a train rattling by, listening so completely, then there is no self at all. You are just listening, seeing. This is not something romantic, but if you do it actually, then you will see how simple it all is. 所以，我们能否一起来学习下聆听的艺术？ 聆听的艺术。 这门艺术，它不仅仅是用外在的耳朵去听， 同样也要用内在的耳朵去聆听。 不仅仅是聆听你自己，聆听你自身的反应， 你自身的回答， 同样也要聆听别人所说的东西， 由此你自身的反应便会和你正在聆听的东西相一致， 它们之间没有分裂。 这是一门我们需要去学习的伟大艺术。 当你聆听古典音乐时， 聆听贝多芬、莫扎特、巴赫等等， 你如此全然完整地聆听他们， 不去回忆自己过去曾聆听过它， 然后返回到当时聆听时所获得的 所有浪漫多情的快感中， 而是在此刻去真切地聆听它。 我们说了，这就是一种艺术，就像‘看’是一种艺术一样； 去看那些云朵， 去看火车经过， 欣赏那巨大云彩的美丽。 当有了这种对美的全然感知时， 自我就不会介入进来了， 自我，意识，以及它们所有的问题，不会介入进来。 因此，当有了聆听的艺术， 和‘看’的艺术以后， 看到这种美，或者聆听火车隆隆驶过的声音， 如此全然地聆听它， 那时就完全不会有自我了。 你只是聆听，只是看。 这并不是某种浪漫化的言辞， 如果你真正地去这样做了， 你就会发现这一切是多么的简单。
17:09 So we are asking - listen to that sound! The thunder of that aeroplane. When you are really listening, then you are not, are you? 所以我们在问 ——聆听这个声音吧！ 飞机的轰鸣声。 当你真正地聆听时，‘你’就不存在了，那时‘你’还会存在吗？
17:52 So let's go back. We have to investigate... When you are listening to that aeroplane completely there is no resistance to that sound: when there is resistance, or defensive process, then the self comes into being - right? 所以让我们回到正题。 我们必须要去探究 当你全然地聆听那架飞机的声音时， 你就不会对它的声音有所抵抗： 当有了抵抗，或者防卫性的过程时， 那时自我便会出现了——对吗？
19:23 We were talking about problems and whether the brain can be free from problems itself so that it will solve problems. To understand that we must go into the question of consciousness. Consciousness, you may not like to use that word 'consciousness'. There are some psychologists objecting to that word. If you object to that word, there are all the reactions, biological, emotional, intellectual reactions. These reactions are registered in the brain, recorded in the brain, so the reactions, biological, which is physical, emotional, intellectual, all those reactions are contained in the brain, recorded in the brain. If you have pain, it is recorded. The records, the memories, are part of the consciousness. And that consciousness is your beliefs, your reactions, your faith, your fears, anxieties, suspicions, depressions, loneliness, pain, pleasure, sorrow, and all the imaginative romantic concepts of god, universe, all that is what you are. Right? All that is your consciousness. So our consciousness is perpetually in conflict with its own reactions. Right? Are you following this? Obviously. Need I go into all that? 我们正在谈论那些问题， 以及头脑是否可以摆脱掉问题本身， 由此它就可以去解决那些问题了。 而要理解这一点， 我们就必须探究一下关于意识的问题。 意识，你们也许并不喜欢使用‘意识’这个词。 有一些心理学家反对这个词。 如果你也反对这个词的话， 我们可以说它是所有那些反应， 生物学上的反应，情感上的反应，思想上的反应。 这些反应被记录在了大脑中， 被收录在了头脑中， 所以那些反应：生物学上的反应 ——也就是生理上的反应，情感上的反应，思想上的反应， 所有这些反应都包含在大脑之中， 被记录在了头脑中。 如果你感到疼痛，它就会被记录下来。 那些记录，那些记忆，就是意识的一部分。 而那种意识就是你们的信仰， 你们的反应，你们的信念，你们的恐惧、 焦虑、怀疑、沮丧、 孤独、痛苦、快乐、悲伤， 和所有那些想象出来的关于上帝和宇宙的浪漫化的概念， 这一切就是你的实质。 不是吗？ 这一切事物就是你的意识。 因此，我们的意识和它自身的反应永远处于冲突之中。 对吗？ 你们明白它了吗？很显然明白了。我还需要再深入这一切吗？
22:48 One desire opposing other desires. One opinion against another opinion, one conclusion changing later to another conclusion. One puts aside one belief and takes on another belief. Right? One pleasure and the boredom with that pleasure, and demanding another pleasure. So our brain is constantly in a turmoil - right? That is a fact. Nobody can deny that. So our consciousness, what we are, each one, is the whole content of our consciousness. Right? What you have learnt, whether it be skills, what one has accumulated scientifically, what one has accumulated as knowledge, as experience, all that is you. Your soul, if you believe in souls, or if you are an Asiatic, you believe in some other form of belief, and so on - right? Are we clear on this matter? 一个欲望在反抗着其他的欲望。 一个观点在反对着其他的观点， 一个结论随后就改变为了另一个结论。 我们放弃了一个信仰，然后转向了另一个信仰。 对吧？ 我们获得了某种快感，随后又会厌倦那种快感， 而想要有别的快感。 所以，我们的大脑持续不断地处于混乱中——不是吗？ 这是一个事实。没有人可以否认它。 所以我们的意识，我们本身，我们每一个人， 就是我们意识的全部内容。 不是吗？ 那些你所学到的东西， 那些技能， 那些你们在科学上积累起来的东西， 那些积累起来的知识和经验， 所有这些东西就是你。 你的灵魂——如果你相信灵魂的话， 或者如果你是一个亚洲人， 你就会有其他形式的信仰， 等等这些——对吧？ 我们清楚这件事了吗？
24:51 So what is this consciousness which is so specialised as yours - right? Do you understand my question? You say, 'It is my consciousness, not yours. I suffer and that suffering is me, mine. Pleasure, it is my pleasure, my dogma, and that dogma may be shared by millions, or thousands, but it is still mine'. Right? Now we are going to question whether it is yours at all. We are educated both biologically, socially, religiously, to think that we are totally separate from another. Right? You are a man, another is a woman, child and an old man just one foot in the grave, there is that difference. But in consciousness, are we different? You understand my question? Please give your consideration to this. Don't just listen. I am questioning therefore you are going to wait for an answer but together we are sharing this question. We have so far accepted that our consciousness, our intelligence, our feelings, our concepts are all mine, are me. And the speaker and you are questioning that fact. That means you are enquiring into it with scepticism, with doubt. 所以，这种意识是什么呢？ 它已经变成了专属于你的东西——不是吗？ 你明白我的问题吗？ 你会说，‘这是我的意识，而不是你的。 我受苦了，而这种痛苦是我的，是属于我的东西。 还有快乐，这是我的快乐，我的教条， 尽管那种教条也许被数百万人或数千人所共享， 但它仍旧是我的’。 对吧？ 而现在，我们要质疑的是它究竟是不是属于你的？ 不管是在生物学意义上，社会学意义上，还是宗教意义上，我们都被教育着 去认为我们与他人是完全分离的。 对吧？ 你是一个男人，而另一个人则是女人， 一个孩子，和一个一只脚已经踏进棺材里的老人， 我们有着这种分别。 但是就意识来说，我们有所不同吗？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 请你好好想一想这个问题。不要只是听我讲。 不是我提出质疑，而你只是等待着我的答案， 而是我们一起来分享这个问题。 迄今为止，我们所接受的是 我们的意识、我们的智慧、 我们的感受、我们的思想，它们都是属于我的，它们就是我。 而演讲者和你正在质疑这个事实。 这意味着你正带着怀疑和疑问在探询它。
27:52 When you go all round the world, various parts of tiny hamlets, fairly large villages, and great towns of the world, you there find all human beings suffer, they all laugh, they all shed tears, like you, they all have their troubles, and they all have their own feelings, like you. They may not be sophisticated, not learned, not know what the world is, but they all have fears, anxieties, depressions, this sense of deep loneliness, sorrow, and hoping there is something beyond all this misery, and having their own gods, like you have your own gods. 当你周游全世界， 走遍那些小村庄的各个角落， 走遍全世界的大村庄 和那些大城镇以后， 你会在那里发现全人类都在受苦， 他们都会欢笑、也都会流泪， 他们就像你一样，也都有着自己的烦恼， 他们就像你一样，都有着自己的情感。 他们或许并不是久经世故的， 不是那么有文化，不知道这个世界是怎样的， 但是他们也都会有恐惧、焦虑和沮丧， 他们也有那种深深的孤独感与悲伤， 并且希望会有某种超越这一切苦难的事物， 他们也有自己的神明，就像你们有着自己的上帝一样。
29:34 So this consciousness - please don't accept what the speaker is saying, question it, doubt it, but move - so this consciousness, as we think it is ours, is shared by all human beings - right? Shared by everybody on the earth. So this consciousness is common to all of us. The sequence of that, that all our consciousness, the feelings, the responses, however subtle, however gross, however crude, is shared by every human being on this earth. So it is not my consciousness, it is not your consciousness - right? This is where you are going to not accept. Therefore we are not individuals. Do you accept that? Do you see that? See it logically first. Logic is necessary. Reason is necessary. Logic, step by step, investigating reasonably step by step, as we have done. And when you realise that, the fact, not supposition, or romantic ideal, but the fact that we all share this, we all stand on the same ground. We all have the same movement of pain, sorrow, pleasure, depression, anxiety. When you see the truth of it and feel the reality of it, then you are all humanity. You are humanity, you are not separate and say, 'I am a Swiss, I have my own peculiar upbringing'. Of course you have peculiar upbringing, you are surrounded by these marvellous mountains, prosperous, well fed, educated - quotes - perhaps a boy living in a small village far away in a foreign country, he may not be educated, he may be just living, struggling, having one meal a day, but he thinks like you, thinks. Thinking is common to all of us. Expression of that thinking may be different. If you are a poet, you might write a poem. If you are a painter, you might do this and that. But thinking is common to all of us. 所以这种意识 ——请不要接受演讲者所说的东西， 而是要去质疑它、怀疑它，行动起来—— 所以这种我们认为属于我们自己的意识， 它是全人类所共享的——不是吗？ 是被这个地球上的每一个人所共享的。 所以，这种意识是我们所有人所共有的。 我们来看看这件事的逻辑顺序， 也就是我们所有的意识、感受和反应， 无论它们是多么的微妙，多么的粗鄙，多么的粗俗， 都是被这个地球上的每一个人所共享的。 所以它并不是我的意识， 它也不是你的意识——对吗？ 这就是你们不会去接受的一点。 因此，我们并不是个体。 你接受这一点吗？你看到这一点了吗？ 首先从逻辑上看到这一点。逻辑是必需的。 理性也是必需的。 逻辑，一步一步地， 去一步一步地理性地探究它，就像我们所做的那样。 而当你意识到了它， 意识到了这个事实，不是猜测或者浪漫化的理想， 而是一个事实，即我们共享了它，它是我们所共有的。 我们有着同样的运动：痛苦、 悲伤、快乐、沮丧、焦虑。 当你看到这其中的真相，并且感受到它的真实， 那时你就是全人类了。 你就是所有人， 你并不是分离独立的人，说， ‘我是一个瑞士人，我有着自己特定的培养教育’。 你们当然有着特定的培养教育了， 你们被这些雄伟惊人的大山所环绕着， 你们富裕，不愁吃喝，‘受过教育’——这里要加引号—— 也许有一个小男孩，他住在一个小村庄里， 他在遥远的异国他乡， 他或许没有受过教育，他或许只是在挣扎着求生， 每天只能吃一顿饭， 但他也会像你一样去思考，思考。 思考是我们所有人共有的东西。 那种思考的表现或许有所不同， 如果你是一个诗人，你也许会写一首诗。 如果你是一个画家，你也许会画这个画那个。 但是思考是我们所有人共有的东西。
34:22 So if you see the truth of it, the depth of it, the feeling of it, the subtlety of it, then you realise you are humanity and therefore you have tremendous responsibility, you cannot kill another because then you are killing yourself. 所以如果你看到了这其中的真相， 看到了它的深度，它的感觉，它的精妙， 那么你就会意识到你就是全人类， 由此你便会有一种强烈的责任感， 你无法再去杀死别人， 因为那时你就是在杀死你自己。
35:07 So in understanding this consciousness, which is, as we said, the whole past memories, the experiences with their knowledge stored in the brain as memory, this memory, not the expression of that memory, but the memory is common. You remember the way to your house, so does the man in that little village thousands of miles away remember from his field to his cottage. 所以就在了解这种意识的过程中 ——就如我们所说，意识就是所有过去的记忆， 那些经验，以及经验所带来的知识，它们作为记忆储存在大脑里， 而这种记忆——不是这种记忆的表现形式， 而是这种记忆本身，它是我们共有的东西。 你会记得回家的路， 而千里之外的小村庄里的那个人 也会记得从他的田地回到自己村舍的路。
36:04 So we are asking: as long as that consciousness, which is stored in the brain as reactions and so on, as long as that brain is in a state of turmoil, a state of problems, it can never solve any problem. It is only a free brain not hindered, not limited, only such a brain can solve problems. So we are asking ourselves whether that brain, that consciousness, with all its content - right? - the content makes consciousness. If there was no content, consciousness may not be as we know it now. Clear? Am I - is the speaker putting lots of things in one talk? If I am, I am sorry. That is the way it is. Because we are going to, if we have time, go into sorrow, passion, which is different from lust, and what is sorrow. And also, if we have time this morning, we must investigate into the whole immense question of death. Because we have only one more talk, next Thursday. 所以我们在问： 如果那种意识还是 ——这种意识作为各种反应，等等 而储存在大脑里—— 只要头脑还是处于一种混乱的状态中， 一种充满问题的状态中， 它就永远无法解决任何问题了。 只有一个自由的头脑，一个不受阻碍，不受限制的头脑， 这样的头脑才能够解决问题。 所以我们在问自己 是否那个头脑，那种意识， 以及意识的所有内容——对吧？—— 那些内容构成了意识。 如果没有内容， 意识也许就不是我们现在所知的样子了。清楚了吗？ 我是不是——演讲者是不是在一次演讲中讲了太多东西了？ 如果是的话，我很抱歉。我的演讲就是这样的。 因为我们还将会来探讨——如果我们有时间的话——来探讨悲伤、 热情（passion）——它和欲望（lust）是有所不同的， 以及什么是悲伤？ 此外，如果我们今天早上还有时间的话， 我们必须要来探究一下那整个关于死亡的巨大问题。 因为我们只剩下一场演讲了， 下周四的那场演讲。
38:26 So we are asking whether this consciousness, with its content, can ever be free, not consciousness but the brain which holds this consciousness. Right? This brain which retains all the memories, the past, the present and the future, which holds - can that brain, can that consciousness be thoroughly empty? You understand my question? Please ask that question of yourself. That train has never whistled before, probably it is encouraging us! And when we are asking this question: whether the content of the brain, not the knowledge and the skill of daily life but all the psychological retentions, the recording, can totally be free? This is a really very, very serious question, because we have lived with this consciousness for forty or fifty thousand years. And we have invented all kinds of gods, all kinds of saviours, all kinds of religious books, from the ancient Egyptians to the present day. And so we have not only to consider whether it is possible for the brain to retain knowledge in the area that is necessary and not hold it in any other area, which is the psychological, that state of the psyche which remembers, which contains all the past and the present - right? 所以我们在问 是否这种意识，以及意识的内容，可以获得自由？ 不只是意识，也包括持有这种意识的头脑。 对吧？ 这个头脑持有着所有的记忆， 过去、现在和未来， 它持有着它们 那么这个头脑，这个意识能否彻底地清空呢？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 请问一下你自己这个问题。 那列火车之前还从来没有发出过汽笛声吧， 它或许是在鼓励我们！ 当我们问这个问题： 头脑的内容是否 不是那些知识和日常生活中的技能， 而是所有那些心理上的保留物，那些记录， 它们能够彻底自由吗？ 这真的是一个非常非常严肃的问题， 因为我们已经带着这种意识生活了有 四万或五万年了。 我们发明了各种各样的神明， 各种各样的救世主，各种各样的宗教书籍， 从古埃及人开始直到今天都是如此。 所以，我们不仅要思考一下 头脑是否可能 在必要的领域中保留知识， 而在其他领域中则不持有知识 ——比如在心理的领域， 在心智的领域——心智会记忆各种事物， 它包含了所有的过去，也包含了当下——对吗？
42:13 So to go into that we must also consider time, time as forty five thousand years until now, that immense duration of time. And also during that long period of time there have been many gods, many scriptures, many expressions of cruelty, wars, despair, tears, laughter, anxiety, insecurity. And that is what we are. That is, the past is contained in the present. That is clear. The past is in the present. And the future is in the present. Because we have had forty five thousand years, we will have another forty five thousand years unless we fundamentally change now - right? This is logical. 因此，要深入这个问题，我们同样必须来思考一下关于时间的问题， 那种四万五千年前直到今天的时间， 这一段如此漫长的时间。 同样的，在这段漫长的时期中， 我们曾有过无数的神明，无数的宗教经文， 无数的残忍的表现，战争、绝望、眼泪、欢笑、 焦虑、不安全。 这就是我们的真实模样。 也就是说，过去是包含在此刻之中的。 这是很显然的。 过去就在此刻之中。 而未来也在此刻之中。 因为我们已经度过了四万五千年的时间， 而我们仍将会有另一个同样的四万五千年 ——除非我们此刻就从根本上改变，对吧？这是合乎逻辑的。
44:12 So is it possible for this consciousness to cease entirely, with all its troubles, turmoils, and all the rest of it? Otherwise if there is no cessation of all that, you will be tomorrow, or a thousand tomorrows, exactly, modified, what you are now. Clear? Right? So that is death. We will go into it much more. 所以，这种意识是否可能彻底止息呢？ 连同它所有的麻烦、混乱，等等这一切而彻底止息？ 否则，如果这一切不停止的话， 那么你的明天，或者上千个明天， 将会和你现在的样子完全一样，或者只是稍微修改一下。 清楚了吗？对吧？ 所以，这就是死亡。 我们待会将会更深入地来探究死亡。
45:14 We ought to go into the question now of what is love, what is compassion, and what is sorrow with its pain. Mankind, from the beginning of time, has shed tears. They have killed each other, perhaps a few at a time, with an arrow or with a club, with a sword and thousands and millions of people have suffered, shed tears, they have lost their sons, their husbands, their lovers and all the rest of that. Man has been like this from the beginning and during forty, fifty thousand years we are still going on, the same as before, only now we have marvellous means of destroying millions of people at one blow. We have progressed immensely - right? And this is called progress. So during all those forty five thousand years mankind has shed tears, sorrow, they have lost their sons, their husbands, their wives, destroyed great cities and built new cities on the old site and so on. So mankind, human beings, have suffered immensely and we are still suffering immensely. This is not romanticism, this is not emotionalism, this is a fact. And we are not stopping at all, we are going on along the same road, the same movement. And we are crying. And so mankind has suffered immensely as we are suffering now. There is no single human being on this earth who has not suffered, either physically, biologically or emotionally or intellectually. They seem to love us, don't they! 而我们现在应该来探讨一下如下的问题： 什么是爱？什么是慈悲？ 什么是苦（sorrow）以及它的痛苦？ 人类从最开始的时候， 就在流泪。 他们互相残杀， 也许开始时每次只能杀几个人， 用弓箭、棍棒或者刀剑来杀人， 而数千人、数百万人曾经遭受痛苦，流下了眼泪， 他们失去了他们的孩子、他们的丈夫、他们的爱人， 等等这些东西。 人类从最开始的时候就是如此了， 而在这四万或五万年的岁月中，我们仍旧是这样， 和以前完全一样， 只不过现在，我们有了惊人的杀人手段， 可以一下子就毁灭掉数百万人。 我们已经取得了巨大的进步——不是吗？ 这就被称为‘进步’。 因此，在所有这四万五千年里， 人类一直在流泪、受苦， 他们失去了自己的孩子，失去了自己的丈夫和妻子， 他们摧毁了那些大城市， 然后在旧址之上建立起新的城市，等等。 所以人类，所有的人， 都遭受了巨大的痛苦， 而我们现在仍旧在遭受着巨大的痛苦。 这并不是浪漫主义， 这也不是感情主义，这是一个事实。 而我们根本没有停止的迹象，我们仍旧继续走着老路， 同样的那种运动。 我们在哭泣。 因此人类 曾经遭受了巨大的痛苦，就像我们现在也在受苦一样。 这个地球上，没有任何一个人 没有受苦过， 要么是肉体上的、生物学上的痛苦，要么就是情感上或思想上的痛苦。 它们看起来很爱我们，不是吗！
49:50 And we have never asked or enquired if there is an end to sorrow. And instead of asking, demanding that question, we have said someone else will suffer for us, as the Christians do, and the Asiatics, including primarily the Indians, they said it is part of Karma - you know the Sanskrit word, which means Karma, the root meaning of that word is to act. What you sow you reap, whether in this life or the next life. That is their idea. What you sow, what you are now, you will be next life, perhaps slightly modified, next life. So we have taken comfort... We have taken comfort in theories, in speculations, in faith, in the next life and so on and so on, but we have never faced the thing, we have never stayed with the thing. One has never said, 'I suffer, I will live with it and find out why I suffer'. not escape from it, not run away, not seeking any form of comfort. That means suffering is like a jewel, a great jewel. You know if you have a great jewel in your hand, you look at it, you marvel at it, you see the beauty of it, how it is set, in platinum, gold, silver, with such delicacy, such refinement, with such beauty, you hold it and look, never want to run away from it. In the same way, if one can hold that thing, sorrow. Not get morbid, not run away from it, just to hold it and look at it, not as an observer looking at it. Some years ago a friend had a most extraordinary jewel. It was one of the most beautiful jewels and he said, 'Hold it for a minute. I held it, the speaker held it and looked at it. It was really the most extraordinary thing, very ancient, very rich and valuable, priceless. And it was something outside of you. That jewel is not part of you, it is there, like that watch, like that microphone, like that camera. But sorrow is you, you are not separate from sorrow. Right? You are sorrow. But we say, 'How am I to be free of it?' Therefore the moment you say, 'How am I to be free of it?', you separate yourself from the fact that you are sorrow. You understand this? 我们从来没有问过或探询过 苦难是否能够结束？ 我们并没有询问或逼问这个问题， 而是说：别人将会替我们受苦 ——基督教徒就是这样， 而亚洲人，其中最主要的是那些印度人， 他们说这是业力（Karma）的一部分 ——你们应该知道这个梵文词语， 它的意思就是，业力， 这个词的词根意思是‘去行动’。 种瓜得瓜，种豆得豆， 不管是在此生还是在来世。这是他们的理念。 你播种下什么，你现在是怎样的， 你来世也将如此，也许会稍微修改一下——在来世的时候。 所以我们得到了安慰 我们在理论、猜测、信仰 和来世，等等这些东西中获得了安慰， 但我们从来没有去面对过那个东西， 我们从没有与那个东西共处过。 我们从来没有说，‘我很痛苦， 我将会与它共处，然后去发现为什么我会受苦’。 不去逃避它，不去逃离它， 也不去寻求任何形式的安慰。 它的意思就是痛苦就像是一件珠宝， 一件精美无比的珠宝。 你知道，当你手上拿着一件精美的珠宝时， 你会观赏它，你会为它而惊叹，你看到了它的美， 它是如何用白金、黄金、银镶嵌起来的， 如此的精密，如此的精致，如此的美丽， 你会拿着它看， 永远不会想要离开它。 同样的， 我们可以拿着那个东西——也就是痛苦。 不要变得病态，也不要逃离它， 只是拿着它，然后看它， 但不是作为一个观察者去看它。 几年前，有一个朋友，他有一件无比漂亮的珠宝。 它是世界上最美丽的珠宝之一， 他对我说，‘你可以拿起它看一会儿’。 于是我拿起了它，演讲者拿起了它，然后观赏它。 它的确是一样无比非凡的东西， 历史久远，丰富多彩，价值连城，是无价之宝。 但它是某个你身外的事物。 那件珠宝并不是你的一部分，它在那里，就像那只手表， 就像那个麦克风，就像那个摄影机一样。 但是痛苦就是你，你与痛苦并不是分离的。 对吧？ 你就是痛苦。 但是我们却说，‘我要如何摆脱痛苦呢？’ 因此每当你一说，‘我要如何摆脱它呢？’ 你就把你自己和那个事实分开了——那个‘你就是痛苦’的事实。 你理解这一点了吗？
55:11 When you get angry, or greedy, you are greedy, aren't you? You are not separate from greed, you are greed. But to say, 'I must get rid of greed'. Or, 'I must hold greed', or 'It's...' and so on. You understand? The moment you separate yourself from the feeling, from the pain, from anxiety, then that separation causes conflict. Right? So sorrow is you, your self-pity, your sense of loss, your sense of loneliness, your sense of failure, your sense of remorse, regret, guilt and all the rest of it. The sense of great loss of someone whom you have so-called loved. And when we separate that sorrow from you, thinking you are different from sorrow, then you want to escape from it, seek comfort from it, but when you are that, because you are that, then you hold it, without any movement away from it, hold it without any thought interfering with it. You are just watching. Then you will see, if you give your whole attention to it, that sorrow ends, never to return again. 当你生气时，或者贪婪时，你就是贪婪，不是吗？ 你和贪婪并不是分离的，你就是那个贪婪。 但是当你说，‘我必须摆脱掉贪婪’时， 或者说，‘我必须要坚持贪婪’，或者‘它是……’，等等这些时。 你明白了吗？ 就在你把自己和那种感受， 和痛苦，和焦虑分开的那一刻， 那种分离就会导致冲突了。 不是吗？ 所以，痛苦就是你， 你的自怜， 你的失去感， 你的孤独感， 你的失败感， 你感到了懊悔、遗憾、内疚，等等这些。 那种强烈的失去感，你失去了某个你所谓的“深爱过”的人。 而当我们把那个痛苦与你分开， 认为你是不同于痛苦的， 那时你就会想要逃离它，寻求缓解痛苦的安慰， 然而当你就是那个痛苦时， 因为你就是它， 那么你就会紧握着它，没有任何逃离它的行动了， 你紧握着它，不让任何思想干涉妨碍它。 你只是看着它。 然后你就会发现 ——如果你全神贯注于它的话—— 那个痛苦止息了，永远不会再回来了。
57:39 With the ending of sorrow there is passion, there is energy, incalculable energy, which is passion. Lust is a passing thing, to be repeated. But passion can never be repeated, it is there because there was the ending of sorrow. And most of us have not this passion because most of us are caught in pleasure. 伴随着痛苦的止息，就会产生热情，产生能量了， 那种无法估量的能量——它就是热情。 性欲是一个转瞬即逝的东西，它是可以重复的。 但是热情永远无法重复，它就在那里， 因为那时痛苦已经终结了。 我们大多数人并没有这种热情， 因为我们大多数人都深陷于快感之中。
58:34 So with the ending of sorrow there is love. If you are suffering, not only physically but inwardly more, how can you love another? You can have pity, you can have sympathy, you can be kind, generous, but that is not love, but love includes all that. Because we have said we must go into this question of what is love. 所以，伴随着痛苦的终结，爱就产生了。 如果你在受苦 ——不只是肉体上的痛苦，而更多的是内心的痛苦—— 那么你又如何能够去爱别人呢？ 你可以去同情，你可以去怜悯， 你可以变得仁慈、慷慨， 但这些并不是爱， 但是爱是包含所有这些的。 因为我们说过 我们必须要去探究关于‘什么是爱？’的问题。
59:31 It is not only the ending of sorrow but also the ending of jealousy, the ending of ambition - listen to it, please listen - ending of ambition. How can you love another, or have love in your heart, if you are becoming ambitious, if you are ambitious to achieve, to fulfil, whether in the physical world or in the psychological world. When you are ambitious to become enlightened - such a silly statement. When you meditate, as some of you - probably many people who talk about meditation, they are ambitious because they want to get somewhere. And therefore those people have no love at all because they are still thinking about their own gain. 它不仅仅是痛苦的终结， 同样也是嫉妒的终结， 野心的终结 ——注意听，请听好—— 野心的终结。 你如何能够去爱别人或者让自己的心中有爱 ——如果你变得充满野心的话， 如果你是野心勃勃的，想要成功，想要实现自己 ——不管是在现实世界中，还是在精神的世界中。 当你野心勃勃地想要‘开悟（enlightened）’ ——多么愚蠢的说法。 当你冥想的时候， 因为你们中的一些人——或许有很多人——都在谈论冥想， 这些人是充满野心的， 因为他们想要达到某个境界。 因此这些人根本就没有爱， 因为他们仍旧在想着他们自己的利益。
1:00:53 So is it possible to have this extraordinary perfume where there is no jealousy, no comparison, no state of antagonism and so on? Where there is love, that love, there is compassion. That is, compassion can only be when there is freedom from sorrow. Can you become passionate when you belong to a country, to a religion, to a group, to a sect, when you are a leader, when you are a guru? You understand all this? And where there is that compassion there is intelligence. 所以我们是否可能拥有这非凡的芬芳？ 在这种芬芳中没有嫉妒， 没有比较， 没有敌对状态，等等。 当有了爱——那种爱——就会有慈悲。 也就是，只有当我们脱离了痛苦以后，慈悲才会存在。 当你属于某个国家， 属于某个宗教、团体或教派， 当你是一个领袖，当你是一个古鲁时，你还能变得充满热情吗？ 你们理解这一切了吗？ 当有了这种慈悲时，就会有智慧。
1:02:13 We ought to really go into this question of intelligence. Intelligence is different from interest. Intelligence is different entirely from the activity of thought which has become very clever. One can be extraordinarily clever in manipulating people and call it love - right? You understand this? Have you ever enquired into what is intelligence? You need a great deal of intelligence to put together a motor - right? You need a great deal of intelligence involving perhaps three hundred thousand people to go up to the moon. You need astonishing clever intelligence to create neutron bombs, to build a submarine, to build aeroplanes, but that intelligence is limited. Right? It can be mechanical, that is, born of memory, knowledge, experience and thought has its own activity which it calls intelligence - right? But that intelligence is limited because thought is limited. We went into the question of thought. That is, thought is based on memory, memory is the accumulation of knowledge and knowledge is the outcome of experience. And we have had thousands and thousands, perhaps millions of experiences, human beings, but there are more experiences to be had. Therefore every experience stored becomes knowledge and therefore that knowledge is limited. It is clear. And that limited knowledge is retained in the brain as memory and the response of memory is thought. Therefore thought is ever limited. You can imagine a limitless state but it is still limited. You can imagine god to be all powerful, all mercy, all this and all that, but it is still limited. So intelligence is something entirely different. It comes where there is love and compassion. That intelligence is rational, sane, healthy, not limited. And is it possible for us human beings, living on this earth, doing our daily tiresome, boring, or fascinating jobs, to be compassionate, have this extraordinary perfume of love? And where that is there is supreme intelligence. 我们应该真正地去探究一下关于智慧的问题。 智慧是不同于利益的。 智慧和思想的活动是完全不同的 ——思想已经变得非常精明狡猾了。 一个人可以无比精明狡猾地去操纵他人， 然后把它称之为爱——对吧？ 你理解这一点吗？ 你是否曾经探询过什么是智慧？ 你们需要有极大的智慧 才能组装好一台发动机——对吧？ 你们需要极大的智慧 才能登上月球 ——这件事需要三十万人参与其中。 你们需要有惊人的聪明智慧 才能制造出中子弹， 制造出潜水艇，制造出飞机， 但是那种智慧是局限的。 对吧？ 它可能是机械化的， 也就是说，它源自于记忆、知识和经验， 而思想也有其自身的活动——它也把这种活动称之为智慧——对吧？ 但是那种智慧是局限，因为思想是局限的。 我们探讨过了关于思想的问题。 也就是，思想是建立在记忆之上的， 记忆则是知识的积累， 而知识是经验的产物。 而我们曾有过成千上万的， 或许数百万种经验，我们人类， 而且我们仍将还会有更多的经验。 因此，我们储存下来的每一种经验都变成了知识， 因此，那种知识是局限的。 这是很清楚的。 而那种局限的知识作为记忆保存在大脑中， 而那种记忆的反应便是思想。 因此思想永远是局限的。 你可以去想象一种无限的状态，但它仍然是有限的。 你可以想象上帝是无限强大的， 是无限仁慈的，无限这个的或无限那个的， 但它仍旧是局限的。 因此，智慧应该是某种截然不同的东西。 当有了爱和慈悲的时候，它便会出现了。 那种智慧是理性的、健全的、健康的、没有限制的。 而对于我们这些生活在这个地球上的， 每天做着烦人的、无聊的或者让人着迷的工作的人类来说，我们是否可能 变得慈悲， 去拥有这种非凡的爱的芬芳？ 无论哪里有了这种芬芳，那里就会有至高的智慧。
1:07:21 It is time to stop. So we will have to discuss the question of death and the immense significance of death, and the strength of death, which is as strong as love. And we will also have to talk over together, on Thursday morning, the day after tomorrow morning, what is religion, and what is meditation. The speaker puts death, religion and meditation at the end of the talks, because in the last five talks, and including this talk, we have laid the foundation. And without that foundation well established, strongly built, which means having no fear, having no illusions, having this relationship with another without conflict, the ending of sorrow, that is the foundation, then only we can go into the question of what is meditation, not how to meditate but the actuality of meditation, the actuality of a religious life, and the great significance of death. 到此为止吧。 所以，我们还将要来讨论关于死亡的问题， 死亡的巨大意义， 以及死亡的力量， 这种力量和爱的力量一样强大。 而我们也要一起来讨论一下， 在周四的早上，也就是后天的早上， 讨论一下什么是宗教？ 什么是冥想？ 演讲者把死亡、宗教和冥想 放在了这一系列演讲的最后， 因为在过去的五次演讲中，包括这次演讲， 我们已经打好了基础。 而没有那个精心建立起来的、牢牢打好的基础 ——它意味着没有恐惧，也没有幻想， 在与他人的关系中没有冲突， 痛苦结束了，这就是基础， 只有那时我们才能够去探究关于‘什么是冥想？’的问题， 不是如何去冥想， 而是冥想的真实状态，宗教生活的真实状态， 以及死亡的巨大意义。
1:10:07 May I get up please? 请问我可以起身了吗？