Krishnamurti Subtitles home


SA84T6 - 生与死一体的生活
瑞士，萨嫩，第六次公开演讲，1984年7月19日



0:23 May we continue with what we were talking about the day before yesterday? This is the last talk. 我们可以接着前天我们所谈论的东西 继续讲下去吗？ 这是最后一次演讲了。
0:44 We have been talking about the whole problem of existence, the various aspects of our daily life. We talked about relationship, we talked about fear, pleasure and the endless suffering of man, and whether there is any possibility of being totally free of fear. We went into that very carefully. And also we talked about knowledge, how important it is to have knowledge which is gathered through experience, stored as knowledge and memory in the brain, out of which comes thought, which naturally then is limited. We went into all that during the last five talks. And as this is the last talk we ought to talk over together why the brain is always occupied. 我们已经谈论了关于生活的整个问题， 我们日常生活中的各个方面。 我们谈论了关系， 我们谈论了恐惧、快感 和人类永无止境的痛苦， 以及我们是否有可能 彻底摆脱掉恐惧。 我们非常认真仔细地探讨了它。 而我们也谈论了知识， 谈论了拥有知识是多么的重要 ——知识是通过经验而收集起来的， 经验作为知识和记忆而储存在大脑中， 而从中便产生出了思想， 于是思想自然就是局限的了。 在过去的五次演讲中，我们探究了所有这些东西。 由于这是最后一次演讲， 所以我们应该一起来讨论一下 为什么大脑总是没有空闲。
3:32 We were asking why our brain, which has evolved through a long period of time, forty five to fifty thousand years, during all that long duration of time the brain has apparently been occupied, never quiet, endless series of occupation, associations, one thought leading to another thought, this endless chain. We have accepted it as natural, as part of our daily life. We are going together to question this. As we said, one hopes you will not mind the thing being repeated, we are not doing any kind of propaganda, propagate any kind of belief, faith, or some philosophy. But rather you and the speaker are going together into the investigation of our daily life. I am afraid we will have to wait for a little while. Let the aeroplanes have their fun! 我们曾经问过：为什么我们的头脑， 它经历过了一段漫长时期的进化， 四万五千年至五万年的时间， 在这整整的一段漫长的时期中， 大脑显然一直忙碌着， 它从未安静下来，一直永无止尽地忙碌着，关联着别的事物， 一个思想导致了另一个思想， 这种无尽的连锁。 我们接受了它，认为它是自然的， 是我们日常生活的一部分。 而我们要一起来质疑这一点。 就如我们说过的，某人希望你们不会介意 我再把它重复一遍， 我们并不是在进行任何宣传洗脑， 传播任何信仰、信念或某种哲学。 而是你和演讲者要一起来 探究我们的日常生活。 我恐怕我们必须稍微等一会儿了。 让飞机们自娱自乐吧！
6:28 We have talked about a great many things. We are together going into very complex problems this morning: why human beings have not been able to live at peace within themselves and so peace with the world. Why our daily life is in such confusion, conflict and misery and sometimes joy, why is it, after all these thousands of years, man has not found the tranquillity, a sense of quietness, peace? All this requires a great deal of intelligence, to live at peace with one another and also within oneself, and so with the neighbour, or with one's own intimate relationships. We have not been able to find out why we have not lived at peace. We have talked about it, why human beings are always in conflict, whether that conflict can end, not only outwardly, wars, divisions of nationalities, divisions of religion, divisions, linguistic differences, semantic differences and the various qualities of the brain which breaks up everything into categories and so on. Is it possible, living in this modern world, with all the complexity of it, having to earn a livelihood from nine o'clock till five o'clock, spending one's whole life in an office, in a laboratory or in a factory, or ploughing the fields, and at the end of it all there is death. I am afraid we will have to wait. That one ends, the other begins! 我们已经谈论了很多东西。 而今天早上，我们要一起来 探究那些非常复杂的问题： 为什么人类 一直无法保持内心的平和而生活， 从而与这个世界和平相处。 为什么我们的日常生活处于如此的困惑、 冲突、痛苦以及时而的喜悦中， 为什么在经过了数千年以后， 人类还是没有找到宁静， 一种安静、平和的感觉？ 所有这些问题都需要极大的智慧， 由此我们才能彼此和平共处， 同样也有内心的平和，从而与邻居， 或者与我们自己最亲密的人和平相处。 我们还没能找到这个问题的答案：为什么我们没有和平的生活？ 我们已经谈论过它了： 为什么人类总是处于冲突中？ 是否那种冲突可以结束？ 不仅仅是外在的方面：那些战争，国与国之间的分隔， 宗教的分隔，各种分裂， 语言上的差异语义上的差异， 以及头脑的各种特质， 它打破了一切事物，然后将它们分门别类，等等。 我们是否可能……生活在这个现代社会中， 面对着它的种种复杂， 不得不赚钱谋生，从早上九点到下午五点， 把自己的一生都花费在一个办公室里、 一个实验室里或一个工厂里， 或者花费在耕种田地上， 然后在所有这一切的最后，迎来死亡。 我恐怕我们必须要等一下了。 这头消停了，那头又起来了！
10:39 We are going to enquire into all this together, as we have done, one hopes, during the last five talks. We are going to enquire together why human beings not only are not capable of living at peace with themselves and with the world, but also why human beings from childhood get hurt, psychologically wounded. This question is very important because that affects our whole life from childhood, through school, through college, university, or at home with other boys and girls that the whole process of living engenders, brings about various forms of psychological hurts which act as a shock to the brain, and so we become neurotic. And whether it is possible to live without a single hurt. When one is hurt it not only emphasises the whole self-centred activity but also it breeds fear. When one is hurt one builds a wall, a structure, a barrier between yourself and another. And so gradually one withdraws, one becomes isolated with all its problems of identification and so on. I wonder - one wonders if one is aware of the hurts we have. And if one is, apparently we never end it, there is no ending of hurts completely. What is it that is being hurt? Please, as we said, we are together investigating this problem. Together. The speaker may point out or verbalise or act as a mirror in which one sees oneself, and so the speaker is not a guru, you are not his followers. There is no personality cult which are all horrible things. So together we are looking at this question. It is your question. It is not a question the speaker is imposing on you. Every human being gets hurt psychologically, wounded. And one carries it throughout life. One never sees the danger, the disastrous results. And is it possible to end all hurts, and never to be hurt again? What is it that is hurt? When you say, 'I am hurt' - what is that 'I', what is that quality of the entity that gets hurt? Right? We are together? Are we understanding each other? 我们将要来一起探询这一切， 就像我们在过去的五次演讲中所做的那样——我希望是如此。 我们要一起来探询： 为什么人类不仅无法 与自己和平相处，与世界和平相处， 同样的，为什么人类从小开始就会受到伤害？ 心理上的创伤。 这个问题是非常重要的， 因为它会影响我们的一生， 我们从小开始就受到伤害，在学校里，在高校里，在大学里， 或者在家里和其他男孩女孩在一起时， 这整个生活过程引起 和带来了各种形式的心理伤害， 它们成为了一种对大脑的冲击， 由此，我们变得神经质了。 那么是否可能没有丝毫伤害地生活呢？ 当我们受到伤害时， 这不仅强调了整个自我中心的活动， 它同样也滋生了恐惧。 当我们受到伤害时，我们就会在自己和他人之间 建造起一堵墙，一个结构，一个屏障。 由此我们便逐渐缩退了， 我们变得孤立， 有着所有那些孤立所带来的认同的问题，等等。 我想知道——某人想知道 是否我们意识到了自己受到的伤害。 如果我们意识到了它， 很显然我们从来没有结束掉它， 我们并没有彻底地结束掉那些伤害。 那个受到伤害的东西是什么呢？ 请注意，就如我们说过的，我们是在一起探究这个问题。 一起来探究它。 演讲者可能会指出它来，或者用语言把它表达出来， 或者作为一面镜子，让你在其中看清自己， 所以演讲者并不是一个古鲁， 你们也不是他的追随者。 没有个人崇拜，所有这些可怕的事情。 所以我们是在一起观察这个问题。 这是你的问题。 这并不是一个演讲者强加于你的问题。 每一个人都会受到心理上的伤害，那种心理创伤。 而我们一生都会背负着它。 我们从来没有看到它的危险之处， 它灾难性的后果。 而我们是否可能结束所有的伤害，并且永远不再受伤？ 那个受到伤害的东西是什么？ 当你说，‘我受伤了’——那个‘我’是什么呢？ 那个受到伤害的实体的特质是什么？ 对吗？我们都明白了吗？ 我们彼此理解对方了吗？
16:03 Suppose I am hurt, why am I hurt? What is the entity, the structure, that gets hurt? And we call it, 'I am hurt'. What is that 'I'? Is it not the various incidents, experiences, the memories, that have created an image about oneself? Please look at it carefully and not reject what one is saying, though one must have doubt, have scepticism, questioning, not accepting anything that the speaker is saying, one must have the quality of doubt. Therefore we are asking: what is it that is hurt? Is it the image that you have about yourself? That image has been put together by various impressions, pressures, it is like a computer programmed. And that image gets hurt - right? And so we say, 'I am hurt'. 假如我受伤了，为什么我会受伤？ 那个受伤的实体， 那个受伤的结构，它是什么？ 我们把它称之为，‘我受伤了’。 那个‘我’是什么呢？ 它难道不就是各种事件、经验和记忆吗？ 这些东西已经创造出了一个关于我自己的形象。 请仔细地来看一下它，不要排斥某人正在说的东西， 尽管我们必须要有疑问、怀疑和质疑， 不要去接受演讲者正在说的任何东西， 我们必须要有那种怀疑的品质。 因此，我们在问：那个受伤的东西是什么？ 它是不是你所拥有的关于你自己的形象？ 那个形象是经由 各种印象、压力而被拼凑起来的， 它就是像是一台程序化了的电脑。 是那个形象受到了伤害——对吧？ 因此我们说，‘我受伤了’。
18:14 Can one - this is the question - can one live a life, daily life, not some romantic, ideological, sentimental life but actually in our daily life live without a single image about ourselves? It is only when there is that image, then that image, that picture that has been put together by thought and that gets hurt. When someone says, flatters or insults or praises and so on, why does the brain record? You understand my question? Is it too difficult? No, no it is very simple. Is it possible not to record? Psychologically, of course you must have a recording process going on when you are driving a car, or so many physical things that one does, there you must have a machine that is constantly recording. And does the psyche, the whole nature of the 'me', need there be any recording in that world? You understand? So is it possible not to record? We are going to find that out, if you are interested. Even if you are not interested, it doesn't matter. Because we have never asked of ourselves, or demanded, whether there is a possibility of being totally free, not only from a particular aspect of life - from our sorrow, from our anxiety, from our loneliness and so on, that is only very superficial freedom to go where you like, to choose any particular job you want but to be entirely free, totally. It is only when the brain is not recording, except in the physical world. In the psychological world, in the world of inside the skin, not to record; that requires tremendous attention, awareness which we are going to talk about presently. 那么我们能否——这就是问题所在—— 我们能否去过这样的一种生活，日常生活 ——并非某种浪漫化的、意识形态的、多愁善感的生活—— 而是真正地在我们的日常生活中， 没有任何关于自己的形象而生活？ 只有在有了那个形象的时候， 那么那个由思想所拼凑起来的 形象或画像才会 受到伤害。 当有人说了一些话， 奉承、侮辱或者赞美了你，等等， 为什么头脑要将它记录下来？ 你们明白我的问题吗？ 这是不是太难了？ 不，不，它其实很简单。 是否可能不去记录？ 在心理上不去记录， 毫无疑问，当你在驾驶一辆汽车时， 你必须要让记录的过程发生， 或者很多你在现实世界中所做的事情， 在那里你必须要有一个持续不断记录的机器。 但是在心智领域，在那个‘我’的所有本质的领域， 那个世界里需要有任何的记录吗？ 你理解了吗？所以，我们是否可能不去记录？ 我们将会来找到答案——如果你有兴趣的话。 但即使你不感兴趣，这也没有关系。 因为我们从来没有问过自己，或者逼问过自己： 是否有可能彻底自由？ 并不只是在生命的某个特定方面获得自由 ——摆脱掉我们的痛苦，我们的焦虑，我们的孤独，等等， 那只是非常肤浅表面的自由——比如能够去任何你想去的地方， 能够选择你想要的某个工作， 而是要彻底自由，完全的自由。 只有当头脑没有在记录时 ——除了在现实世界中去记录。 而在心理世界中，在皮肤里面的世界中， 则不去记录； 这需要全神贯注，需要觉察， 我们过一会儿就会来谈论它。
22:10 And we ought to talk over together a very complex problem which mankind has faced for thousands upon thousands of years. Though it is a beautiful morning full of light and splendour, the beauty of the hills and the dark shadows of the valley, we ought to talk over this question, which is not morbid, which is death. Right? This is part of our life, as anxiety, loneliness, fear and all the toil and turmoil and conflict of life, death is also part of our life. Whether one is very young, enjoying life, or middle-aged or old-aged, this is a problem which each human being has to face. We are all going to die, that is certain, that is one thing that is absolute. So we are going to enquire together into the complexity of what it means to die. You don't mind discussing this? All right? If you don't like it, lump it! 而我们也应该一起来讨论一下一个非常复杂的问题 ——人类数千年以来一直都面对着这个问题。 虽然这是一个美丽的早晨，光彩壮丽， 美丽的群山，那深色的山谷的影子， 而我们应该来讨论一下这个问题——这并不是病态， 这个问题就是死亡。 对吗？ 它是我们生命的一部分， 就像焦虑、孤独、恐惧， 以及所有生命中那些辛劳、混乱和冲突一样， 死亡同样也是我们生命的一部分。 不管那个人是否还很年轻，正在享受着生活， 还是说他是中年人或老年人， 死亡是每一个人都必须要面对的问题。 我们都将会死去，这是肯定的， 这是一件确定无疑的事情。 所以我们将要来一起探询 ‘死亡意味着什么？’这个非常复杂的问题。 你们不介意讨论这个东西吧？ 可以吗？ 如果你们不喜欢它，那就将就忍受一下吧！
24:21 Why is it that human beings are so frightened of death? Why is it that human beings have put death as far away as possible from their life? Why is it that death seems to appear such a terrible thing? Books have been written by doctors and others, how to die happily. I saw - one saw a title of that book, it is quite well known in America, 'How To Die with Grace', with happiness, relaxed. 为什么人类是如此地害怕死亡？ 为什么人类 要将死亡放在尽可能远离自己生活的地方？ 为什么死亡 看起来像是一个如此可怕的东西？ 医生们和其他人曾经写过一些书， 如何快乐地死去。 我看过——某人曾看到过其中一本书的名字， 这本书在美国很有名， ‘如何优雅地死去’， 带着幸福快乐，放松地死去。
25:48 So we are going to talk over together this question. Have you ever enquired into what it is to end? What is the significance of ending something? Ending, not a continuity, you understand? We are used to, or have been conditioned to a continuity - right? To continue. What does that mean, to continue? A long duration of continuous memory - right? Continuous attachment to a place, to a person, to an idea. Has one ever experimented completely ending with an ideal and not, what will happen if I end? You understand? You have understood? The question of ending is very important to understand. Ending a habit, both biological or psychological habits. If you end, then you will ask, 'What is there more?' Which means you are still thinking in terms of continuity - right? If I end anger, or selfishness, what is there? Right? So our brain is always looking to something else if I end. Bien? And we have never therefore, ended anything completely. Understood? Can we go on? 所以我们将要来一起讨论这个问题。 你是否曾经探询过什么才是结束？ 结束某个东西是什么意思？ 结束，它不是一种延续，你理解了吗？ 我们习惯于，或者一直被局限着 去延续——对吧？要延续下去。 那么，延续下去，这是什么意思呢？ 那是一段漫长时期的连续不断的记忆——对吧？ 持续不断地执著于某个地方、某个人、某种理念。 我们是否曾经尝试过去彻底地结束某个理想？ 而不是问，如果我结束了它，会发生什么呢？ 你们明白了吗？你们是否理解了？ 了解关于结束的问题是非常重要的。 结束一个习惯， 不管是生物学上的习惯，还是心理上的习惯。 如果你结束了它，那么你就会问，‘那时还会剩下什么呢？’ 这就意味着你仍旧还是在从延续的角度来思考问题 ——对吧？ 如果我结束了愤怒或者自私的话， 那么还会剩下些什么？对吗？ 所以如果我结束了某个东西，我们的头脑总是在看着其他的东西。 好吗？（法语） 因此我们从未彻底地结束过任何东西。 明白了吗？我们可以继续下去吗？
28:57 So if one understands the nature of ending, and the urge, the desire, to continue, when there is the desire to continue, then there is the fear of ending - right? If one understands the ending and therefore no continuity, then there is no fear. You understand all this? Are we thinking together? Actually thinking together, not accepting what the speaker is saying, that is not important. But putting our minds, brains, together. Not your brain and my brain, but the quality of brain that thinks, the quality of brain that says, 'I must go and enquire, find out'. The quality of brain that doubts, questions, asks, then we are together. Then our brains are meeting each other, therefore communication between each other becomes very easy, simple. Right? Are we doing this? Half and half. And that is where our difficulty lies. Some people here - I am not being disrespectful to them - they have listened to all this for years, probably bored, knowing what he is going to say. They have become accustomed to the words. But have they really... are we together learning? Not memorising - see the difference? We memorise, we are educated to memorise, so as to be able to use skilfully our knowledge. We memorise lessons - French, Russian, whatever language - we memorise various historical processes, we memorise scientific facts - right? We accumulate knowledge to act skilfully in any field. But learning is a movement that is like a river that is flowing, never static. Knowledge is static because you are adding more and more and more. Learning is like a great river that has got tremendous volume behind it, moving swiftly, rapidly, nothing stands in its way. That is the act of learning. So are we learning together? Or our brains have been programmed like a computer. It is rather interesting to talk about the computers. You don't mind? 所以，如果我们了解了结束的本质， 以及想要延续的强烈欲望与渴望， 当有了想要延续的渴望， 那么就会有对于结束的恐惧了——不是吗？ 如果我们了解了结束，从而不再有延续， 那么就不会有恐惧了。你明白这一切吗？ 我们是在一起思考吗？ 真正地一起在思考， 不要接受演讲者正在说的东西， 它并不重要。 而是要一起用心，一起动脑子。 它并不是你的脑子和我的脑子， 而是那种在思考的头脑的品质， 那种头脑的品质在说，‘我必须要去探询，去发现’。 那种头脑的品质在怀疑、在质疑、在询问， 那时我们就是在一起行动了。 那时我们的头脑就会彼此相遇， 所以我们彼此之间的交流就会变得非常轻松和简单。 对吧？ 我们是在这样做吗？一半一半吧。 而这就是我们的困难所在。 这里有一些人 ——我并没有对他们有任何不敬—— 所有这些东西他们已经听了有好多年了， 也许都有点厌烦了， 他们知道那个人将会说些什么。 他们已经变得习惯于那些语言文字。 但他们有没有真正地去……我们是在一起学习吗？ 不是去记忆——看到它们的区别了吗？ 我们去记忆，我们被教育着去记忆， 从而便能够去熟练地运用我们的知识。 我们去记忆各种课程——法语、俄语、无论什么语言—— 我们去记忆各种历史发展的过程， 我们去记忆科学的各类事实 ——对吧？ 我们积累知识从而能够在任何领域中都得心应手。 但是学习则是一种运动， 它就像是一条不断流淌的河流， 永远不会处于静止状态。 知识是静态的， 因为你正在增加着越来越多，越来越多的知识。 而学习就像是一条大河， 它背后是滔滔不绝的河水， 那河水迅猛、急速地流动着， 没有什么能阻挡它。 这就是学习的行为。 所以我们是在一起学习吗？ 还是说我们的头脑已经像电脑一样被程序化了。 谈论电脑是相当有趣的事情。你们不介意我谈论它吧？
33:42 They are doing the most extraordinary things in the world of computers. The speaker has discussed with many of them, so called top ones. And those computers can almost do anything that the human thought has done. They have been programmed by top mathematicians, biologists, scientists, engineers, taking any particular subject and a professor who is top in his profession giving a programme - right? You know all about this. Our brain has been programmed too. You are programmed after two thousand years to call yourself a Christian, belief - right? The Hindus, perhaps three to five thousand years, have been programmed to believe - you know the whole process. And the Islamic world too, programmed - you understand? And the computer is being programmed, ultra mechanical intelligence, it is called. And it can almost outthink man, more rapidly. They have discovered in America a chip that holds a million memories. And so what is going to happen to man, to your brain? You understand my question? If a mechanical thing can outdo man, except in certain realms - I won't go into all that, you can study it - what is going to happen to man, to you, to your children, to your grandchildren, what is going to happen to them? When the mechanical intelligence can outstrip man, in certain ways, it can build cars through robots, there is going to be certain unemployment and so on and so on. Then what will happen to the human brain that has been active - you understand? Active in doing certain things, carpentry, mathematics, putting machinery together and so on, which computer and a robot can do all that - you are following all this? - what is going to happen to our brains? We asked this question to computer experts. Their reply is, 'We don't care. We don't know'. And that doesn't matter. What their interest is, is inventing. Getting more and more. The computers do all kinds of things. 人们正在电脑科技的领域里， 做着最非凡惊人的事情。 演讲者曾经和很多电脑专家有过讨论， 那些所谓的‘顶尖的专家’。 那些电脑几乎可以从事任何 人类思想所做过的事情。 那些电脑已经被程序化了 ——那些顶尖的数学家、生物学家、科学家和工程师将它们程序化了， 选择任何一个特定的学科， 和一位在他专业领域中做到顶尖水平的教授， 去给电脑编个程序——对吧？你们都清楚这些事情。 而我们的大脑也被程序化了。 在经过了两千年之后，你被程序化了， 从而称自己是一个基督教徒，有了那种信仰——对吧？ 而印度教徒，也许用了三千到五千年的时间， 被程序化了，从而相信……——你们都知道这整个过程。 而伊斯兰教的世界也是一样，它也被程序化了——你理解了吗？ 电脑被程序化了， 它被称之为‘超级机械智慧’。 它的思考速度几乎超过了人类。 人们在美国发现了 一个可以保存上百万记忆的芯片。 所以人类将会发生什么呢？你的大脑将会发生什么呢？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 如果一个机械化的事物可以胜过人类——除了在某些领域中—— 我就不深入所有这些了，你可以自己去研究它， 那么人类，你们，你们的孩子们， 你们的孙子孙女们将会发生什么？他们将会发生什么事情？ 当那种机械化的智慧在某些方面可以超过人类时， 它可以通过机器手制造汽车， 而有一些人将会失业，等等等等。 那么人类的头脑将会发生什么呢？ 人类的头脑一直都很积极活跃——你明白了吗？ 它积极活跃地做着某些事情，木工、数学、 把各种机械部件组装在一起，等等， 而电脑和机器人现在可以从事所有这些事情了 ——你们明白这一切了吗？—— 那么我们的头脑将会发生什么事？ 我们向那些电脑专家们询问了这个问题。 而他们的回答是，‘我们不关心这事儿。我们也不知道’。 他们无所谓。 他们的兴趣在于去发明创造。 发明出更多的东西。 电脑可以做各种各样的事情。
37:47 Please do listen, seriously listen, it is not a joke, a game we are playing. Either the entertainment industry, sports and so on and so on, including religion, which is all entertainment industry - either the brain is going to be caught in that - if you have noticed how entertainment is growing more and more and more, the children want to be entertained - either the brain is going to be caught in that, everlastingly seeking entertainment, or it is going to turn inwardly, not selfishly, not in the world of self-centredness, that is a very small affair, but going much more deeply. The brain has extraordinary capacity, as is shown in the technological world, and that same brain can watch and go very, very deeply, and that depth is infinite. So you are faced with this. 请听好，认真听好， 这不是一个笑话，我们不是在玩游戏。 要么，我们会沉浸于娱乐业， 体育运动比赛，等等等等，包括宗教 ——这些全都是娱乐产业， 要么头脑陷入于这些东西之中， 你是否注意到了 娱乐业是如何持续不断发展壮大的， 孩子们想要娱乐 ——所以，要么头脑陷入于其中， 不停地去追求娱乐， 或者它将会开始转向内在，不是那种自私自利， 不是落入于自我中心的范畴， 那是非常卑微渺小的事情， 而是更为深入。 头脑具有非凡的能力， 这一点在技术领域中已经得到证明了， 而同样的头脑也可以非常非常深入地去观察内心， 而那种深度是无限的。 所以这是你们需要面对的问题。
39:38 So let's come back. What is death? As we said, if we understand deeply the meaning of ending and the nature of continuity, which all of us want because we think in continuity there is safety, security - right? Right, sirs? Being identified with a country, having roots in a certain place, or attached to some symbol, ideal and so on, which is a series of continuities. Hoping to find in that security, and so we cling to continuity. And that very continuity is bringing about great disaster because it is bringing wars - right? We cling to democracy whatever that may mean and also there is the whole group of Russian totalitarian states, we are the managers of human beings, we control them - right? Dictatorship and all the rest of the horrors that are going on. So where is security? Do you understand the question? We have sought security in the family, in the wife, in the husband, in the community and so on, in nation, inter-nation, but there has been no security for man. As civilisation grows more and more complex there is going to be less and less security. And continuity gives us the hope that we shall have security. Where does security lie? Is there any security at all? 好了，让我们回到正题。 什么是死亡？ 就如我们所说的， 如果我们深刻地理解了结束的意义 和延续的本质 ——我们都想要延续， 因为我们认为在延续之中有着安全和保障 ——对吧？不是吗？先生们。 把自己认同于某个国家，让自己扎根于某个地方， 或者执著于某个象征符号、理想等等， 这些全都是一系列的延续罢了， 我们希望在那之中找到安全， 因此我们执著于延续。 而那种延续本身则带来了巨大的灾难， 因为它带来了战争——不是吗？ 我们紧紧抓住民主政治——不管这玩意儿到底是什么意思， 同样还有一群俄国的极权主义国家， 我们是人类的管理者，我们要控制他们——对吗？ 独裁专政和所有这类骇人之事正在发生着。 所以安全在哪里呢？ 你们明白这个问题吗？ 我们在家庭中，在妻子或丈夫身上， 在社区等等之中，在国家中，在国际合作中寻找安全感， 然而人类却一直没有安全。 随着文明逐渐变得越来越复杂， 我们的安全也将变得越来越少。 而延续带给了我们希望，让我们觉得我们将会拥有安全。 安全又在何方呢？ 真的有任何安全可言吗？
42:52 And when we are seeking security, which is in continuity, then there must be real fear of death, which is the ending - right? The Asiatic world, specially India which has expanded all over Asia, psychologically and religiously they have invented the word 'reincarnation'. That is, a series of continuities - right? I shall die this life, but next life. And so next life and after next life - you follow? Until human beings reach that highest principle or highest state. So that is a very comforting idea of continuity. Right? You follow all this? But we never ask for ourselves: what is ending, actually ending? And one is frightened of that too. To end, for example, completely, psychologically, all attachment. Because we are attached to so many things - to people, to ideas, to knowledge, to concepts, to various forms of idealism, to money, to our knowledge and memories, or to our experience. 'Oh, I have had a marvellous spiritual experience' - I hold on to that. Right? So we are attached to so many things. And death comes along and says, 'My friend, you can't be attached to anything' - right? You are going, you are leaving everything behind you - right? Your family, your ideas, your knowledge, all your vanities of knowledge, position, power, all that you are leaving. That is ending. And that is what we are frightened of. That is what we call death. The terrible ending, not knowing what happens afterwards. If you knew what happens afterwards, you continue - right? So our brain is so cunning, so subtle that it must know before it does anything. It must know, if I end, what is there. I can't live in vacuity. I can't live in a state of nothing, nothingness. Right? 当我们寻找安全感时——这种安全感存在于延续之中， 那么就必然会有对于死亡——也就是结束——的真切恐惧， 不是吗？ 在亚洲世界，特别是在印度，有一个东西，它已经扩展到了整个亚洲 ——不管是在心理上还是宗教上。 人们发明出了‘轮回转世’这个词语。 ‘轮回转世’就是一系列的延续——对吧？ 此生我将会死去，但我还有来世。 所以就这样来世复来世——你明白了吗？ 直到人类达到那种至高本质或至高境界为止。 所以这是一个很令人安慰的有关延续的理念。 对吧？你们明白所有这些吗？ 但我们却从来没有问过我们自己：什么是结束？真正的结束？ 而我们同样也害怕结束。 举个例子，在心理上去彻底地结束所有的执著依赖。 因为我们执著于如此多的事物 ——执著于他人、理念、知识和概念， 执著于各种形式的理想主义， 执著于金钱，执著于我们的知识和记忆， 或者我们的经验。 ‘噢，我有过了一次妙不可言的灵性体验’ ——而我会执著于那种体验。对吧？ 所以我们执著于如此多的事物。 然后死亡来临了， 它说，‘我的朋友，你无法执著于任何东西’——对吧？ 你将会，你正在离开你所有的东西 ——对吧？ 你的家庭、你的理念、你的知识， 所有你拥有知识、地位和权力的虚荣， 你将要离开所有这些东西。 这就是结束。 而这就是我们所害怕的东西。 这就是我们所谓的死亡。 那种可怕的结束，却不知道之后将会发生些什么。 如果你知道之后将发生什么，你就会延续下去——对吧？ 因此我们的头脑是如此的精明，如此的狡猾 以至于它在做任何事情之前必须先知道来龙去脉。 它必须知道，如果我结束了，那时还会剩下些什么。 我无法生活在空虚中。 我无法生活在空无一物的状态中，生活在虚无中。 对吗？
47:52 So that is why it is very important to understand the nature of continuity and the quality of total ending without the movement of a future. So death says, 'Don't be attached to anything, psychologically, first'. Then you will find out physically how not to be attached. If you said to your wife or your husband, 'Darling, I am no longer attached to you', probably she would throw a brick at you, or you will run. See the importance, please, it sounds funny, and it is rather funny, why we are so attached, we are never letting go. So the question is: can you live freely, that means no attachment, and ending every day every form of holding on, clutching to something. Which means can you live a life - everyday living with ending, which is death? You understand my question? Have you ever tried it, actually, not theoretically? Which means you have no roots anywhere, you are not identified with anything - your country, your family - psychologically we are talking about so that the brain is constantly empty, not chattering. You understand? Because we are wasting our energy through all these series of conflicts. And where there is fear, that is the epitome of waste. That is the summation of waste. And we need energy, tremendous energy. As you have tremendous energy when you want to earn money, when you want to become famous, when your sexual appetites demand, you have got tremendous energy. But apparently where that tremendous energy is necessary in the psychological world there that energy is wasted by fear, conflict, confusion, you know, all the rest of it. 所以，这就是为什么最重要的是 要去了解延续的本质， 去了解彻底结束的品质，而不移向未来。 所以死亡说，‘不要执著于任何东西 ——首先是心理上的东西’。 然后你就会发现要如何不执著于外在物质上的东西了。 如果你对你的妻子或者丈夫说， ‘亲爱的，我已经不再执著依赖于你了’， 她很可能会朝你扔砖头， 或者你将会逃跑。 拜托，请看到它的重要意义，它听起来很好笑， 它的确相当可笑。 为什么我们要如此执著依赖？ 我们从来不会放手。 所以问题是： 你能否自由地生活？那意味着无所执著， 每天都结束掉各种形式的执著， 那些你紧抓不放的东西。 它的意思就是，你能否过这样一种生活： 每天的生活中都伴随着结束——也就是死亡？ 你理解我的问题吗？ 你是否曾经尝试过它？真正实际地尝试过它，而不是理论上的？ 这意味着你没有任何扎根之地， 你不认同于任何事物 ——你的国家、你的家庭—— 我们说的是心理上的认同， 由此头脑就能时时保持清空状态， 而不会喋喋不休。你明白了吗？ 因为经由所有这一系列的冲突， 我们在浪费着自己的能量。 而当有了恐惧时，这就是典型的浪费能量了。 我们的能量都浪费在了恐惧上。 而我们需要能量，需要巨大的能量。 就像当你想要赚钱时，你会有巨大的能量一样， 当你想要出名， 当你性欲强烈时， 你就会有巨大的能量。 但是很显然， 当心理世界需要这种巨大能量的时候， 那种能量就会被恐惧、冲突、困惑所浪费掉， 你知道的，所有这类东西。
51:41 So we are asking: is it possible to live, daily life, not some romantic, ideological, Utopian nonsense, but actually in our daily existence, living with death and life together? You don't see the beauty of it. You don't see the nature of its extraordinary quality. But if you go into it deeply, one comes upon such depth. 所以我们在问：是否可能去过这样一种生活，日常的生活， 不是某种浪漫化的、意识形态的、荒谬乌托邦的生活， 而是真切实际地在我们的日常生活中， 去与生命和死亡共同生活？ 你们并没有看到它的美。 你们并没有看到它非凡品质的本质。 但如果你深入它的话，你就会遇见那种深度了。
52:28 Now we ought to talk over together: what is religion. All civilisations, the birth of a new civilisation has been the outcome of religion. Not what the priests have made of the religion, not the religions which are organised with property, with money, with authority, hierarchical authority, with temples, mosques, churches - that is not religion. That is all great activity of thought - right? Please examine it, don't reject it. All the rituals have been put together by thought - right? All the dress, fancy dress, it is all put together by thought. All the cathedrals have been put together by thought. And the symbols, the original sin, the saviour, all that is the result of people who have thought it all out. They may say it is direct revelation. All revelation is translated by thought. So religions, as they are now, is the activity, directed in one direction, with one purpose. Not only to help man, not only to control man, which means woman and so on, not only to civilise man but also in their attempt to do all that they have also created wars - right? Religious wars of a hundred years and so on. All religions are at war with each other Right? Have you noticed all this? You must have. You are all so-called civilised people, you have read all this, they are at war. - dogma, rituals - and the whole of Asia with their Buddhism and Hinduism, and Islamic world. All that is not religion, obviously. Because it is based on thought, thought is memory, memory is knowledge, knowledge is the outcome of experience. And therefore thought is always limited, as knowledge will always be limited. 而现在，我们应该一起来讨论一下：什么是宗教？ 所有的文明，一个新文明的诞生， 都是宗教的产物。 它并不是由牧师们所组成的宗教， 也不是由财产、 金钱、权威、按等级划分的权威， 以及寺庙、清真寺和教堂所构成的宗教——这些都不是宗教。 这些全都是思想的庞杂活动 ——不是吗？ 请你们检视一下它，不要拒绝它。 所有的宗教仪式都是由思想所拼凑起来的——不是吗？ 所有那些着装，那些奇装异服，它们都是由思想拼凑起来的。 所有的大教堂都是由思想所拼凑出来的。 还有那些象征符号，原罪，救世主， 所有这些东西都是人类绞尽脑汁想出来的。 人们也许会说这是来自上帝的直接的启示。 然而所有的启示都经过了思想的诠释。 所以，就目前的宗教而言，它是思想的活动， 这种思想活动指向某个方向，带着某个目的。 它不仅仅是为了帮助人们， 不仅仅是为了控制人们——这里也包括女人，等等， 不仅仅是为了教化人们， 同样的，在他们试图做所有这些事的过程中， 他们同样也带来了战争——对吗？ 百年的宗教战争，等等。 所有的宗教都在互相打仗， 不是吗？你们注意到所有这些了吗？你们一定注意到了。 你们都是所谓的‘文明人’， 你们曾经阅读过所有这类内容， 不同的宗教在彼此交战，整个西方世界都信仰一个东西 ——同一种教条和仪式—— 而整个亚洲世界则相信他们的佛教和印度教， 而伊斯兰世界则相信他们的一套。 但很显然，所有这些都不是宗教。 因为它是建立思想之上的， 思想就是记忆，记忆就是知识， 而知识是经验的产物。 因此思想永远都是局限的， 就像知识永远都是有限的一样。
56:31 So then what is religion? Right? Is there that religious quality of the brain that doesn't belong to any guru, to any sect, to any recognised, orthodox, well-established religions, so that all that is put aside completely? Which means that there is no fear to find out, there is no sense of the background which holds you back. So what is the religious mind, brain? You understand? What is the quality of a brain that has evolved through millennia upon millennia - please listen to all this, if you are interested, because it is your life - a brain that has evolved through time, and through the long ages there have been so many religions. Always the priests at the top because at one time the priests were the only people that were able to write and read, they were the councillors, they were the wise men, and they gradually assumed authority - you know, the good game! And so what is that brain that has the quality of that religious - we are going to define the word 'religion' presently - that brain that has this quality? We are going to find out together. 那么，什么是宗教呢？对吗？ 是否存在着那种头脑的宗教品质， 它并不属于任何古鲁、任何教派， 不属于任何公认的、传统的、确立已久的宗教？ 由此它便可以将所有这些东西彻底抛开？ 那意味着恐惧无处可寻， 你也感觉不到了那个阻碍抑制你的背景。 所以，什么是宗教心灵、宗教头脑呢？你理解吗？ 那个已经发展进化了几千年的头脑， 它的品质是什么？ 请聆听这一切——如果你感兴趣的话， 因为这是你的生活。 大脑已经在时间的长河中得以进化了， 在漫长的岁月里，我们有过如此多的宗教。 而牧师祭司们总是最顶层的人士， 因为在过去， 牧师和祭司曾是唯一能够读书写字的群体， 他们就是议员，他们就是智者， 然后他们逐渐化作了权威——你知道的，一个很棒的游戏！ 所以那个 拥有宗教品质的头脑是什么呢？ ——我们马上就会来定义‘宗教’这个词的意思—— 那个拥有这种品质的头脑是什么呢？ 我们将会一起来找出答案。
59:17 The word 'religion' etymologically is not definite. We say this because we looked at various dictionaries, the origin of the word. There they say there is no conclusion of the etymological meaning of that word. They say it is a form of binding, binding to your concept of the highest, binding yourself to that. Even that they are doubtful. So the etymological meaning, the origin of that word, is not established, so we can play with that word. So we are going to find out together what is religion. Because we have reached a certain stage of evolution: technologically we are tremendously advancing, there is no limit that. And psychologically we have just scratched the surface. And if the brain, which has got such infinite capacity, if that brain is caught in programmes - you understand? like a computer is caught in programmes, as a British, a Hindu, and all the rest of the silly nonsense, they cannot possibly then enquire into the most extraordinary thing in life. ‘宗教’这个词的词源含义并不明确。 我们之所以这样说，是因为我们查阅过各种辞典， 寻找这个词的起源。 而对于这个词的词源含义， 辞典上也没有什么结论。 它们说这个词是一种‘绑定（binding）’， 它绑定着你对于终极事物的概念， 把你自己和它绑定在一起。 但即使是这个解释也是值得怀疑的。 所以关于这个词起源的词源含义 并没有确定， 因此我们可以设想一下这个词语。 所以我们将要来一起搞清楚什么是宗教？ 因为我们已经达到了一定的进化发展阶段： 在科学技术上我们正在飞速前进， 无拘无束，没有限制。 而心理上，我们却只是触及了皮毛。 而如果头脑，它拥有如此无限的能力， 如果这个头脑陷入于种种程序之中 ——你们懂的吧？ 就像一台被程序化了的电脑一样， 被编程为英国人、印度人，等等所有这些愚蠢荒谬的东西， 那么头脑就不可能去探询 生命中最非凡的事物了。
1:01:40 And this is where meditation comes in. You understand? Not how to meditate. The very word 'how' means a system, a practice, tell me what to do, I'll practise it day after day, day after day, sit in a certain position, breathe in a certain way - you know all the tricks. Don't you know all that? I am sure some of you have played with all that. The gurus from that unfortunate country called India come over here and tell you all about meditation and you lap it up because you are so gullible, which means you have no doubt, question. 而这里就会涉及到冥想了。 你理解吗？ 不是如何去冥想。 ‘如何’这个词就意味着一个体系，一种练习，告诉我该怎么做？ 然后我就会日复一日地天天练习它， 以特定的姿势坐着，然后以某种方式呼吸 ——你们都知道所有这些把戏。你们难道不知道这些东西吗？ 我确信你们中一些人曾经玩过这些东西。 那些来自于一个叫做印度的不幸国度的古鲁们， 他们来到了这里，然后告诉你所有关于冥想的事情， 而你欣然接受了它，因为你是如此容易上当受骗， 这意味着你并没有怀疑和质疑。
1:02:59 So we are going to find out together what is meditation. Which is in relation to what is religion and in relation to the whole of existence, our daily existence. You understand? Daily existence which is a turmoil, etc. and so on, and death, freedom, and the brain that has got such extraordinary capacity, infinite capacity. And when we ask what is meditation, it is not asking for a system, for a method, because if you practise a system, a method, that becomes mechanical, you are caught in that system, in that method. See the logic of it. For God's sake see the truth of it, so that you are never caught in a system. Because the brain is demanding not only security - you understand? - it must have security, both physical and psychological, complete security otherwise it can't function clearly, objectively, passionately - right? So what is meditation? 所以我们将要来一起搞清楚什么是冥想？ 这个问题和‘什么是宗教？’有关， 和我们的整个存在，我们的日常生活有关。 你明白了吗？ 我们的日常生活，它是一种混乱，等等这些东西， 也和死亡与自由有关， 头脑具有如此非凡的能力， 无限的能力。 而当我们问：什么是冥想？ 我们并不是在询问要求某个体系，某种方法， 因为如果你练习某个体系，某种方法的话， 那种练习就会变得机械化， 你会陷入于那种体系或那种方法之中。 请看到这其中的逻辑。看在上帝的份上，请看到这其中的真相， 由此你就永远不会陷入于体系之中了。 因为头脑不仅仅在要求着安全感 ——你明白吗？——头脑必须要有安全感， 既包括生理上的安全感，也包括心理上的安全感，完整的安全感， 否则的话，它就无法清晰地、客观地、强烈地运作了 ——对吧？ 所以什么是冥想呢？
1:05:00 The word 'meditation' means to ponder over, to think things over. That is the dictionary meaning. And also it means measure, both in Sanskrit and etymologically, to measure. Right? That is what the meaning of that word is. The technological world can only exist when there is measurement - right? Centimetres, metres, inches, foot and so on, which is measurement. If that measurement is not possible, if there is no measurement, technology cannot move. That is fairly clear. Psychologically, inwardly, we also have measurement - I am this, I will be that. That is to measure. Which means also to compare to what is to what should be. Can one live - please put your minds to this to find out - can one live without measurement? Right? Ask that question, without comparing yourself with anything. Comparison implies future - right? And we went into the question of time. Time is the past - I will repeat it again. Time is the past, and that past is now, you are there. All you are now is the past. And the future is what you are now. Clear? If you are jealous today, you will be jealous tomorrow. That is a fact. Or a thousand tomorrows. Or many years. Unless you change now you will be jealous tomorrow - right? So time is contained in the now - the past, the future and the present. This is important really to understand the depth of it, not merely the words of it. To understand the nature of time. And measurement means time. Comparison means time. So if you are always comparing yourself with something or other, you are projecting what should be - right? And that what should be is from the present. Therefore the future is now. I have talked about it enough. One has gone into this very deeply at other talks. ‘冥想’这个词意味着 去沉思，去细想。 这是它词典上的意思。 它同样有‘度量’的意思， 不管是在梵文中，还是词源意思中，都有‘度量’的意思。 对吧？ 这就是这个词语的含义。 科学技术的世界只有在 有了量度的情况下才能存在——对吧？ 厘米、米、英寸、英尺等等，这些都是量度。 如果无法度量，如果没有了量度， 技术就无法发展进步了。这是显而易见的事情。 而心理上，内在而言，我们也有着度量—— 我是这样的，我将会变成那样。这就是在度量。 也就是拿事实现状去和‘应该怎样’相比较。 那么我们能否——请你专心地去发现它—— 我们能否没有度量而生活？ 对吗？ 问一下这个问题，不要拿你自己去和任何事物比较。 比较就暗示了未来——对吗？ 而我们已经探讨过了关于时间的问题。 时间就是过去——让我再来重复一遍吧。 时间就是过去， 而那个过去就是此刻，你坐在那里。 此刻你的一切，就是过去。 而你的未来就是你此刻的模样。 清楚了吗？ 如果你今天是嫉妒的，那么明天你仍将是嫉妒的。 这是一个事实。 不管是一千个明天，还是许多年以后，你仍将如此。 除非你现在就改变，否则你明天还是会充满嫉妒——对吧？ 所以全部的时间就包含在此刻之中 ——无论是过去、未来，还是现在。 了解这其中的深刻意义真的是非常重要， 而不仅仅只是流于表面的文字。 要去了解时间的本质。 而度量就意味着时间。 比较就意味着时间。 所以，如果你总是在把自己和某事物相比较， 那么你就是在投射出‘应该怎样’——对吧？ 而那个‘应该怎样’是来自于此刻的。 因此未来就是此刻。 这一点我已经说得够多了。 某人已经在其他的演讲中非常深入地探讨过它了。
1:09:19 So when the brain has no comparison, it doesn't compare at all - just listen to it - when there is no comparison, it is what is now - right? You understand? It is what it is now. And to remain with what is now and not have a single movement in any direction - you understand? 所以，当头脑没有了比较， 当它完全不去比较时 ——请听好—— 当没有了比较时，那么它就是当下的样子了——对吧？ 你们理解吗？它就是此刻的模样。 与此刻的模样共处， 而不朝任何方向移动哪怕一步 ——你理解了吗？
1:10:04 So meditation is to understand the depths of time, and as we have laid the foundation from the very beginning of our talks, which is to deal with daily life, where there must be total order. Not disorder, we talked about it the other day. That is, you have to bring about order in your house, not only in the physical house, but the house in which you live inwardly, complete order, which means no fear. It is fear that creates disorder, attachment creates disorder. I have built something, I am attached to that. I have invented something, it is mine. So the brain, having established order, a sense of total freedom from self-centred activity, it is much more difficult to have, it has to be gone into it, which we did, all along. The talks are to point out our self-centred activity and therefore that activity is limited and very small. 因此冥想就是去了解时间的深刻意义， 因为我们已经从我们演讲的一开始 就打好了基础， 也就是我们处理的是日常生活，日常生活中必须要有完全的秩序。 而不是混乱，我们前几天谈论过这个了。 也就是，你必须要为你的房子带来秩序， 不仅仅是现实世界中的房子， 也包括你内心所居住的房子， 完全的秩序，那意味着没有恐惧。 是恐惧制造出了混乱，是执著依赖制造出了混乱。 我建造了某样东西，然后我执著于它。 我发明了某个东西，它是我的发明。 所以那个头脑，在建立起了秩序以后， 有了一种彻底摆脱掉自我中心活动的感觉， 要拥有这种感觉是更困难的事， 我们必须要深入探究它才行，这也是我们过去一直在做的事。 这些演讲是为了指出我们那些自我中心的活动， 因此那种活动是局限的，是非常卑微的。
1:12:01 So meditation, when there is order, it becomes extraordinarily quiet. And to observe, to perceive something totally, is not possible when there is confusion. So the brain can perceive something totally when it is absolutely quiet. Are we doing this? Our brain is never quiet, as we said at the beginning of the talk, it is always chattering, it is always occupied with something or other. And so the brain becomes mechanical, limited, creates friction with itself, and so there is never the quality of absolute tranquillity and silence. When you look at those mountains and those clouds, your brain must be quiet to appreciate the beauty of it, but if you are chattering all the time, talking, talking, talking, never looking, then you do not see the full depth of the beauty of a mountain, or the cloud with an evening light on it. So logically and sanely the brain needs absolute quietness. 所以，冥想， 当有了秩序， 冥想就会变得无比安静。 当有了混乱时， 你就不可能完整地去观察或感知某个事物了。 所以，当头脑彻底安静下来以后， 它才能去完整地看到某个事物。 我们在这样做吗？ 我们的头脑从未安静下来过， 就如我们在演讲开始时所说的， 头脑总是在喋喋不休， 它永远都在忙碌于这样或那样的事情。 由此头脑就变得机械化和有限了， 它制造出了自身的摩擦冲突， 因此它永远无法有那种 绝对宁静和寂静的品质。 当你看着那些高山，那些云朵， 你的头脑必须安静下来，才能去欣赏它的美丽， 但如果你一直在喋喋不休， 不停地说话、说话、说话，从来不去看的话， 那么你就无法看到一座高山 和沐浴着夜光的云朵那极具深度的美了。 所以头脑需要彻底安静，这是合乎逻辑和理智的。
1:14:24 Then what is creation and what is invention? You understand? Religion is this creation, not invention. Invention is the accumulated thought in which there is a gap and then something new is discovered, but it is still within the realm of thought - right? I do not know if you have - the speaker has discussed this matter with scientists and specialists and so on. What is creation? Not only creation of a baby from the cells and all the rest of it, but much more beyond all that. What is creation? Not who created - you understand? If you say it is god, then it is finished. Your god and my god and the Muslim god and the Hindu god and your own particular pet god. That is an easy way of explanation and most people are satisfied with it. But if you shake away all that, slough it off, then what is creation? Is it born of knowledge? If it is born of knowledge, it is not creation because knowledge is limited - right? Because we are adding more and more and more knowledge. Where there is more there is limitation. Right? Which will be measurement - the more, the better, is a measurement. So where there is knowledge there is invention. And creation is not related to knowledge. Therefore all the paintings of the world that they think are great creations are the activity of thought directed in different directions - great artist, great poetry, marvellous music - it is all the activity of thought and so on, I don't have to go into all that. 那么，什么是创造呢？什么是发明呢？ 你明白了吗？ 宗教就是这种创造，而不是发明物。 发明物是积累起来的思想，在其中有一个间隙， 然后某种新的事物会被发现， 但它仍旧是落入于思想的领域中的——对吗？ 我不知道你们是否曾经 演讲者曾经和那些科学家、专家等等 讨论过这件事情。 什么才是创造？ 不仅仅是创造出一个孩子， 从细胞等等此类东西开始然后创造出一个孩子， 而是要远远超越这一层次。什么是创造？ 不是说谁谁谁在创造——你们理解吗？ 如果你说是上帝在创造，那么事情就结束了。 你的上帝和我的上帝穆斯林的上帝， 印度教徒的上帝，以及你自己特定的宝贝上帝。 这是一种很简单轻松的解释， 而大多数人都满足于此。 但如果你甩掉所有这些东西，丢弃掉它， 那么什么是创造呢？ 创造来自于知识吗？ 如果它是源自于知识，那它就不是创造， 因为知识是有限的——对吧？ 因为我们正在不断增加着更多的知识。 当某事物可以变得‘更多’，它就是有限的。对吧？ 因为它是可度量的 ——越来越多，越来越好，这是一种量度。 所以当有了知识，就会有发明。 而创造与知识无关。 因此这个世界上所有的画作 ——人们认为它们是伟大的创造—— 只不过是不同方向上的思想的活动， 伟大的艺术家、伟大的诗歌、美妙动人的音乐 ——它们全都是思想的活动，等等这类东西， 我无需再深入这一切了。
1:17:34 So creation, that is religion. You understand? A mind - a brain that has knowledge where it is necessary, in the physical world, writing, talking, driving and so on, and knowledge has no place in the psychological world, because knowledge is limited and therefore creating division, conflict and all the rest of it. When you say, 'I know my wife', you have already destroyed your wife. You understand that? Aren't you shocked by this? Because then your relationship with another is based on knowledge, which is thought, and thought is not love. All your desires, appetites, sensations are thought and therefore it is not love. Where there is love there is compassion. Compassion cannot come into being when there is no total freedom. If I am attached to my culture, to my tradition, to my religion as a Hindu, it is just a - and talk about compassion, it is childish. Where there is compassion there is intelligence. That's it. And that intelligence is supreme, it is not yours, or the speakers, or somebody else's, it is intelligence. And in that intelligence there is absolute security. And nowhere else. And so religion, meditation is free of knowledge, and therefore the religious brain is creating, is in a state of creation. Do you understand all this? Even logically, intellectually, see this. If you really understand it, it is something that will totally revolutionise your daily life. We will be the beginning of a new religion, which is nothing to do with present religions. That is creation. Sorry. The talk is over. May I get up? Please clap for yourself. 所以创造，它其实就是宗教。 你们明白了吗？ 那个心灵——那个头脑会在现实世界中 有必要的地方使用知识，写作、演讲、开车等等。 而在心理世界中则没有知识的一席之地， 因为知识是有限的， 因此它会制造出分裂、冲突，等等这类东西。 当你说，‘我了解我的妻子’时，你就已经摧毁了你的妻子。 你理解这一点吗？ 你难道不对此感到震惊吗？ 因为那时你与他人的关系 就是建立在知识——也就是思想——之上的， 而思想并不是爱。 你所有的渴望、欲望、感官感觉，它们都是思想， 因此它并不是爱。 当有了爱，就会有慈悲。 而没有完全的自由，慈悲就不会降临。 如果我作为一个印度教徒，执著于我的文化、 我的传统、我的宗教， 那么这只是……这时去谈论什么慈悲是很幼稚的。 当有了慈悲，便会有智慧。 就是这样。 而那种智慧是至高无上的， 它不是你的，不是演讲者的，也不是其他人的， 它只是智慧。 在那种智慧之中，就有着绝对的安全 ——其他任何地方都没有。 所以宗教、冥想和知识无关， 因此那个宗教性的头脑就是在创造着， 它处于一种创造的状态中。你们理解了所有这些东西吗？ 哪怕只是从逻辑上、智力上，请看到这一点。 如果你真的理解了它， 它就会成为某种彻底改变你日常生活的东西。 我们将会开启一种新的宗教， 它和现在的宗教没有任何关系。 这就是创造。 很抱歉。 演讲全部结束了。 我可以起身了吗？ 请为你们自己鼓掌吧。